July 9, 2025 • 41 mins
Doug looks at Kirk Cousins claiming he regrets signing with the Falcons who ended up drafting his replacement in Michael Penix Jr and why this feels like revisionist history
Chet Holmgren agrees to max extension
Guest: Keith Law
#douggottliebshow
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be or however you may be making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug. Got leave
in for Colin Cowherd Callings Back takes Monday, after good
old fashioned week off. Keith Law's gonna join us UH
Senior Major League Baseball Senior MLB senior writer for The Athletic.
We'll get his thoughts on what's wrong with the Dodgers
(00:49):
and how about this Miserowski pretty pretty amazing stuff and
what about the guy leading the Bigs in home runs?
Please in Seattle Ballpark, a dead ball ballpark of all places.
Plus we got Major League Baseball's Draft up coming this
weekend as well, A lot to get to with Keith Law.
(01:10):
I want to start with this, so there's a new
season of the Quarterback on Netflix, and a guy who
I do think that America sort of fell in love
with watching this series going back two years ago was
Kirk Cousins. And we talked to start the show, if
(01:32):
you're just joining us, Doug goleli'ben for Colin. We talked
about how WNBA players, I think the best term would
be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans and media for so long.
Now they're like taking it out on Caitlin Clark. I
think Kirk Cousins is a guy that's had a lot
of AMMO. Picked in the fourth round from a team
(01:54):
that drafted a first round starting quarterback who was Rookie
of the Year that year in RG three, and then
when it became his franchise, felt like they didn't like
him there. Heck, the president of the team in an
interview kept calling him Kirk Cousin. When his name is
Kirk Cousins. I'd like, again, you're showing somebody disrespect if
(02:15):
he don't even know their name right repeatedly. Yes, I know,
I know I screwed up blast out, but my point
is when it's and again, it was like Bruce Allen
was like eight times and when to talking about Kirk Cousins.
Kirk Cousins, Kirk Couins like, name's Kirk, and I work
for you and I'm starting quarterback. So Kirk has spent
(02:35):
time exacting his own personal revenge for people who didn't
think he was good enough. Got the fully guaranteed contract,
got the extension of Minnesota, won a road playoff game
in New Orleans, proved on some level that he's better
than advertised in primetime games, and then departs at the
(02:56):
end of last season. Now full disclosure, end of last
season and he had torn his achilles tendent. He was
on his way to a unbelievable year in the neighborhood
of six thousand yards passing that season. But Kirk Cousins
struggled from about the midpoint this year and ultimately got
pulled for Michael Pennix, who was the top ten pick
(03:18):
of the Falcons. Too many people's surprise, like you're going
to sign Kirk Cousins then draft a first round pick quarterback.
That seems weird. So in that season of the quarterback,
with the new season the quarterback. Here's what Cousins had
to say about it. If he could do it all
over again.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback so high. At
the time, it felt like I had been a little
bit misled or certainly if I had the information around
free agency, it certainly would have affected my decision. I
had no reason to leave Minnesota with how much we
loved it there if both teams are going to be
drafting a quarterback high. But I've also learned in twelve
(03:57):
years in this league that you're not entitled anything. It's
all about being able to earn your spot and prove yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, so he like backtracks, is like, hey, you know
you're in your spot, you prove yourself or whatever. But
had I known, look this this one's this one seems
pretty obvious, right. I get that he likes it, but
the buyer's remorse that Cousins has like keep in mind
(04:27):
that again, Cousins has won in the business of sports.
He's the guy who's done no extra years. Just give
me the years, give me the money, make it all guaranteed.
He and that work for him Minnesota. But Minnesota was
moving on, make no mistake about it. They were moving on.
(04:48):
They had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and
other pieces and they had made the decision, Hey, we're
gonna go get a first round pick, and then they
signed Sam Darnold as a as a placeholder or just
in case. And remember he had worked in that offensive
system when he was in San Francisco the two years previously.
(05:09):
Like this is one of those things that it sounds
really good in documentaries, like, man, if I knew they
were taking a first rump pick and Minnesota's taking a
first runk pick, and I love Minnesota, I would have
stayed in Minnesota's Like what are you talking about, Kirk.
They weren't gonna pay you at Minnesota what Atlanta pays you.
You know, they just weren't.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It's like, yeah, I totally would have stayed there, would
you really? Again, that's cow, that's fertilizer, That's what that is.
I remember he essentially signed a two year deals four years,
one eighty okay, ninety million guaranteed at at signing. Minnesota
(06:00):
wasn't giving you that, Like what are you even talking about? Yeah, hey,
had I known that they were gonna do that? Like
I didn't. I didn't know they were gonna do that.
And again, does it look great for Atlanta to draft
a quarterback. Actually, now it really does because Kirk Cousins,
who apparently got hit and you know, decide to play well,
(06:23):
hurt because he knows that, you know, one of the
one of the biggest lies. There's lots of lies told
in the NFL, but the old you don't lose your
job to injury, Like what did true Bledsoell lose his
job to injury? Of course he did. Lots of guys
have lost their job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently
(06:47):
took a hit to his shoulder and didn't tell any
you know, now's I didn't tell anybody that I was
I was hurt. Like, yeah, dude, you were playing, you're
playing well, and then all of a sudden your production
fell off a cliff. He played fourteen games. Let's not
act like Atlanta did you wrong. Oh man, Atlanta, they
(07:08):
did me wrong. They gave you fourteen games, and the
last couple of which were bad. You threw eighteen touchdowns
and sixteen interceptions. Like, I can't believe they drafted another quarterback.
Why because you were coming off of an achilles tendon
tear and they gave you ninety guaranteed, So you're gonna
(07:33):
get paid this year. They'll probably trade you when somebody
else's quarterback goes down, and you'll get a chance because
you'll get you know, nobody's gonna pick up that option,
and you'll get another contract next year. I just don't
lie to us and go like, hey, if I knew
that that Atlanta was gonna draft the quarterback, I would
have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't because they weren't
(07:54):
gonna give you ninety million dollars. Stop lying, so NFL players,
stop lying about we don't have guaranteed contracts. You do,
they're just not all fully guaranteed. And the ones that
are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you want to
read in the paper. I don't know. Just the manipulation
(08:16):
or and and some of it is. Again, this is
how any athlete Kirk Cousins can think that way, because
the whole world has done me wrong and I proved
them wrong time and again. Is how he's made it. Okay,
But again, let's not kid ourselves. Okay, that he wasn't
(08:39):
staying in Minnesota, and he was coming off an Achilles
ten and tear. And if you think that Minnesota, where
he'd had sort of an up and down run there
ended on the up. He was playing really well, uh
in that system. But if you think they were going
to give him a four year two years of a
guaranteed contract and oh yeah, by the way, when a
guy stays, he wants to get paid more, not lesser
(09:00):
a home crown discount in the NFL. I think Kirk
Cousins is trying to rewrite history and get a sympathetic year.
And no one's really sympathetic, not because we don't like him,
just because, dude, you're still getting paid. You're gonna get
another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell
us that Minnesota was going to keep you when they
didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year. Right,
(09:23):
Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate
under the San Francisco model. As long as they can
get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible.
That's the San Francisco model. Okay. Coming up next in
the Herd here on Fox Sports Radio, what is the
(09:43):
matter with the Dodgers? What's wrong? Swept by the Astros
on the brink of beings, Swept by the Brewers. We'll
discuss that upcoming next.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter. Not a impacific Hey.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
What's up everybody?
Speaker 6 (10:01):
It's me three time pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and I
couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called up
on Game?
Speaker 5 (10:08):
What is up on Game?
Speaker 6 (10:09):
You ass along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Huschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion Yup, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, TJ. Huschman, Zada,
(10:31):
and Plexico Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcast from.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Doug Gottlieb it for calling us to hurt Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio App. Welcome in. UH. Sunday is the Major League
Baseball Draft. I know that because dear friend of mine,
Matt Holiday's son Ethan, is getting ready to be drafted,
likely on Sunday now. His brother Jackson, two years ago
(11:01):
was the number one overall pick. But that was a
bit of a surprise. Ethan maybe the number one overall
pick this year. I bring it up because our next guest,
Keith Law, longtime writer and baseball analyst for the Athletic
It joins as he just put out his top one
hundred prospects list and you had number one. Keith, does
(11:24):
that mean that Ethan will go number one? Does the
number one prospect go number one in the baseball draft? No?
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Quite often he doesn't. He didn't. Last year number one
prospect was Charlie Condon, who won the Golden Spikes Awards.
He went third. Travis Bezana went first. He was I
think one of the runners up actually for the Golden Spikes.
So it wasn't a crazy pick. But it is often
about money and what a team believes, how much a
team believes they can maybe saved taking a slightly lesser
(11:52):
player that would allow them to then spend over the
slot recommendations for later picks and get players they think
are talents instead.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Do you think Holiday goes number one?
Speaker 7 (12:05):
I don't. My answer might have been different on Saturday,
but Washington's decision to fire Mike Rizoe, who I actually
think did a great job for them on multiple fronts.
You know, I understood Rizzo's drafting preferences just particularly in
the first round pretty well. And he had an amazing
relationship with Scott Boris Holiday, the whole Holiday family. They're
all Boris clients, and Mike really liked to take the
(12:29):
sort of premium most famous so to speak, players on
the board that you know, his belief is what they're
famous for a reason. Even Holiday is famous for a reason.
He's super talented. Now I have a feeling they'll do
something a little bit more conservative, which is not to
say it will be the wrong pick. There's plenty of
good candidates this year, sure, but I don't think they'll
go high school. I think they'll go college.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Now, speaking of college, Paul Skins continues, there is ridiculous,
but his team stinks and the firm stand isn't particularly good.
Right Other than that, mister Lincoln, how is the show?
I know ownership came out like what not trade and
pull skates? Is there a world in which they replenish
their farm system by moving skates?
Speaker 7 (13:07):
I don't think so. Nobody has talked to this totally
might be, but nobody I've talked to has really even
brought this up as a possibility, like, I think they
would trade Mitch Keller, and I think they should trade
Mitch Keller because obviously with pictures you just worry you're
gonna hold on too long and they're gonna get hurt
or lose their stuff and not be so effective anymore.
But I think they look at Schemes as like he's profitable.
(13:28):
We don't really talk about players that way specifically, but
when Schemes is pitching right, it's everyone's tuning in. People
want to go to the ballpark, is they say it
somedays he's the only reason you might buy a ticket
to go see the Pirates. Not trying to be mean,
he's just that good.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
No, you're not saying anything that you Empire fans like, yeah,
you're right, you're right.
Speaker 7 (13:48):
Yeah, So I think he stays if i'm them, though,
I'm like anybody else here as a vail, Like I've
seen Kbrian Hayes, who signed a very very long extension.
They're shopping him. They should. I like Cobrian Hayes. Maybe
he'll be better somewhere else, but he's not helping the
Pirates and they need to replenish. Like you said, they
need to boost, particularly the hitting talent in the farm system.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Uh. Misserrowski after giving up a too h curveball to Shohey,
was outstanding again last night. He had the maybe two
bad at bats as a pitcher against the Mets, maybe
three in one inning. Outside of that, he's been outstanding.
It's it's really he's got great stuff. But as you
pointed out right, you're always worried about the young pitcher
(14:32):
getting in too soon because injury or you know, second
time through. Uh, you know, against teams that they get
a book on him. What is the league saying about
about Misserrowski and his ability to maintain this level of dominance.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
So the pure stuff, just if we're just talking even
just fashlawng Slider always have even when he was a
junior college prospect a couple of years ago and burst
think of second round stuff with elite never threw a
lot of strikes. That has gradually gotten better, And you know,
there's always been.
Speaker 8 (15:09):
A concern it's going to get hurt because it's.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
A violent delivery and he throws so hard so consistently.
Guys like that just don't have a great track record
of staying healthy. I can't predict an injury. Yeah, I
look at him, and I fear that guy looks riskier
than most. The thing I'm most curious to see is
what you just said. As hitters get to see him
again and again, are they going to start to lay
off a lot of that stuff. He can get guys
(15:31):
out in the zone, but I don't think he can
locate in the zone consistently enough. And they're going to try,
especially that slider. If they're going to lay off the
slider out of the zone, maybe even try to cheat
on the fastball a little bit. And that's kind of
what the Mets did. The Mets, especially second time through
the order, looked like they made an adjustment. So as
he gets around the league, do we start to see
that happen. And you know what, if he keeps getting
(15:52):
guys out the second time through, I will gladly sort of,
you know, shake my hands and say, yup, Okay, he's good.
He's a number one starter and there's at least those
two pitches. You do not see many guys in baseball
rotation or bullpens who have two pitches that good.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
The Dodgers have lost five in a row, and like
Look again, they were coming off of a run where
they won I don't know, thirteen out of sixteen, but
these are playoff teams Astros and Brewers, and in four
of those five games they've only scored one run. I
know they're pitching is yet to be healthy, but what's
happened to the Dodgers' bats?
Speaker 7 (16:30):
Yeah, I wonder a little bit. Even coming into the year,
we just sort of off thought they, you know, they
would bludgeon everybody right though. The offense looked like it
was going to be, if not the best, among the best,
and they are still second in the National League in
run scored per neame, but just slightly behind the Cubs.
So I don't think there's reason to panic. The offense
is on the older side. Do they start to see
(16:51):
some fatigue over the course of a long season. Is
this an opportunity maybe for the front office to say,
let's go get another maybe a bat with some versatility,
just to give some guys off so that they're a
little fresher into September and October. I'm just speculating it
could just be a bad couple of weeks for them
against some pretty good competition, as you said, because even
with the offensive struggles the last week or two, they
(17:13):
are still among the best offenses in either league.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
So far this year, no question. I look at that
National League, right, you got the Mets have fifty three wins,
the Phillies fifty three wins, the Cubs fifty four, the
Brewers fifty two. You know, the Giants. They went on
a walk off inside the park. That's nuts, nuts, But
(17:37):
it's still the Dodgers and everybody else, assuming Blake Snell
is back in time that that they're healthy. If I
were to say, Keith, put your life savings on one
team in the National League, being the biggest challenger to
the Dodgers, what would you answer.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
Be, Oh, that's a good one. I think I'd still
say the Phillies because even though they're offense, my worst
Philly stands so I see a lot of Philly schemes
when I'm not actually out, and their offense can be
really frustrating. But they're going to make the playoffs. Their
rotation maybe the best in baseball. They could carve their
way through October just on pitching. And I think back
(18:13):
to those six Cardinals, who weren't that good of a team,
but their pitchers got real good, real fast in October,
and they more or less just pitch their way to
the World Series Championship. And I think the Phillies, they're
just such a good rotation on paper. I think they
could do that. I'd like it even more if they
went out and acquired a little more bullpen help. But
Dave Dombrowski always does stuff like that, like, they'll be active,
(18:36):
they'll be buyers, they'll identify something they can fix at
the deadline, and the bullpen is generally the easiest thing
to do.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
In July, the Detroit I'm just trying to figure out.
I mean, obviously Ryley Green and Spencer Tolger Center are amazing, yep.
But I mean the Tigers on paper look awesome, and
it's just so hard to comprehend. You know, a team that,
you know, what was it nineteen they lost one hundred
(19:03):
and fourteen games to begin the slow build back, but
you know four years ago as ninety six losses. Is
this real what we're seeing? Fifty nine and thirty four
great run differential? Is this real?
Speaker 8 (19:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I think it is. I think they're helped by a
week's division, right, Nobody else in the division's over fives,
so that boosts them a little bit. But they got
They had one guy in the whole line up before
about two weeks ago who was a below average hitter,
and that was Trey Sweeney, and now he's out with
the miners. They got Parker Meadows back. They're trying to
hoavier Buys back at shortstop they can roll out. Maybe
(19:37):
it's not the best lineup, but it has no holes
won through nine and I think that's a big part
of why they've been one of the better run scoring
teams in the league. Also, it's not just Treik Schooble
like it was last year. It was the you know,
Schooble and pitching chaos was aj Hinch's term for it,
and it worked, but no one you can't do that
for a whole season, and Schoogles just as good. But
(19:57):
Casey Mice looks like he's finally turning into the I
thought he'd be eight years ago when he was the
first overall pick. They've gotten great work out of results
and Jack Flaherty has at least taken up some innings.
They should go get a starter. That's and I think
they're going to do something. They're definitely buyers at this point.
They've got a great farm system. I would like to
see them go get one more playoff worthy starter for October.
(20:20):
But I do think they're very real. I don't just
think they're going to the playoffs. Theyll probably end up
with home fields for at.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
Least around Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, and Will West has been awesome, right, Yes, that
helps them. Yeah, I mean, but when you have somebody
then close the door and he's doing so incredibly well,
it's it's just crazy to see the Tigers. You're like,
is that wait?
Speaker 7 (20:42):
The Tigers? Tigers? Yeah, they got good really fast. It's unusual.
But it's also like it should give a lot of
other fans hope you can turn things around really quickly.
And the Tigers, you know, bad for a lot of years,
a lot of high draft picks. Several of those guys
just kind of broke out all at once in like
a year and a half span. They waited for a
(21:02):
while on to he broke out Miz they waited forever,
and through Tommy John surgery, he broke out Riley Green.
I agree with you, he's a superstar. All those guys
kind of hit around the same time, and that's how
they went from one hundred losses to they could win
on hundred games this year.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The big dumper, I just I can't say it. I
can't say it enough. I try not chuck out the
big dumber cal Riley. Okay, It's it's one thing to
have thirty six home runs, have a one point two
nine ops it, which is second best in the league.
It's nothing to do it as a catcher. And then
the third thing to do it in Seattle where balls
(21:37):
do not fly out of Seattle at all. Right, Dennis
Ballpark for home runs in the league. How sustainable is this?
Can all those things consider that he's a catcher and
that he's playing in Seattle.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
It's I believe in the old scouting axiom that catchers
often developed later because there's so much wear and tear
on their bodies and because we them to do basically
two full time jobs. Well, he's twenty eight. That's kind
of peak years anyway for a lot of hitters. So
I'm not shocked he's taken a step forward. I am
probably most maybe not shocked, amazed he's become a way
(22:14):
more disciplined hitter, and he's hit thirty homers before he's
gonna hit fifty five this year. That's another level. But
it's that his at faster, better, is walking more, He's
making more contact overall. That's the thing that I think
is so amazing when we've seen guys do that more
often than not. It is sustainable. So we might see
a couple of years of Cal Rawly doing his best
Johnny Bench impression before it happened. I don't care if
(22:37):
he's the big dumper or the medium dumper or the
little dumper. Right, eventually it catches up to you. It's
hard to see a catcher of the big league eventually.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
It'll say.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
But to me, I say, enjoy it. And by the way,
I CBS News have me on and you're damn right,
I said, big dumper on national television.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Hey, you just came down that MLB is going to
use the ABS challenge system in the All Star Game.
Granted it's the All Star Game, like they'll probably just
do it to bring attention, but seems like a precursor
for what's gonna happen next year in the Biggs.
Speaker 7 (23:04):
Right, Yes, absolutely, I love it. By the way, I've
seen it in the Arizona Fall League. It's been a
couple of Triple A games this year to see like
Andrew Painter and Cam Schlitler just putching it's nice and
the Yankees I was always Triple A start last week.
I love the ABS and the fans get into it
because they don't know if you've seen it. If they
do the they put it on the jumbo con and
they show a computer graphic to the path of the
ball and people cheer or boo or whatever. But it
(23:27):
adds an excitement to what would otherwise be Nobody likes replay.
That's basically what this is. Another kind of replay. But said,
they make it fun, so I'm and also I think
it makes things more accurate, So I'm a big.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Thing, right, Keith, Great to catch up man. Enjoy the draft.
I know it's like your personal Christmas because it challenges
the depth of your knowledge. It's outstanding. Check his work
out in the Athletic It's got the top one hundred prospects.
The MLB Draft is uh what is it? Six Scott
Eastern Time on Sunday. It lasts essentially in perpetuity, but
it's still amazing stuff because that's how that's how top
(23:59):
ball teams are made. Keith, thanks for joining us. I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
That's Keith Law from the Ethnic Let's get to ryme
music with the news.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Hello, Ryan, what do you got for it? Oh?
Speaker 9 (24:16):
Doug, Oh, it's good to be listening to two steam
heads talk about America's pastime, summertime. Good stuff there between
you and Keith Law. But we are going to turn
our attention to the association the NBA, the Knicks. They
officially introduced Mike Brown as their new head coach, and
here's what he had to say about the massive, perhaps
(24:39):
unrealistic expectations that he's facing in New York.
Speaker 10 (24:43):
Nobody has any bigger expectations first of all than I do.
My expectations are high. This is the Knicks. I talked
about Madison Square Garden being iconic. I love and embrace
the expectations that come along with it.
Speaker 9 (24:58):
Do you I'm sure what you supposed to say?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
What are you supposed to say?
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Absolutely? No, I get it. I'm not believed.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I mean said like like listen. So, So here's the
here's my Mike Brown thing. I know, Mike, I think
it to be an exceptional human being. Like he's a
legit good dude, Okay, and all of us I would
hope have learned from our past successes, but also our
past mistakes. I think trying to run Princeton offense when
(25:26):
you have Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard and those guys
Eddie Jordan running it when you were in LA, that's
a mistake that is firing, right, But we need to
remember that he did help, like the Lebron team that
went to the finals that had Booby Gibson as his
starting you know guard oppos. Yeah, Mike Brown was the coach,
(25:50):
so you couldn't hire somebody to replace Thibodeau who hadn't
done as much or more than Tips had done in
the playoffs. Mike Brown checks that out. He comes from
very good stock, right, got spurs. And of course Steve
Kerr he's been a head coach. He's been a very
less successful head coach. Do I care that he's like, yeah,
(26:12):
I run towards xpitting, Like that's great, dude, It's New York.
They're crazy. Owner is crazy. But again, it's opening press conference.
Let's just take a beat and see how it plays out,
doesn't have a perfect roster, got to be improved, and
then they got to figure out. Really it feels like,
you know, is the owner gonna let the basketball people
(26:33):
do their job and then oh, yeah, by the way,
does Rick Brunson help them or hurt them? As it
appears again, this is just based on what I've heard
and what we've seen with some former players. Does he
have too much say with the coaching staff as an
as system but also the father of your best player.
Speaker 9 (26:51):
I have a couple of points on this which almost
kind of conflict with each other, but I want to
throw them at you.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Okay, So okay. With Mike Brown, it's hard.
Speaker 9 (27:01):
To say that he is a definitive upgrade over Thibodeaux.
So that's where the questions come into play, and you
start to go, why are you getting rid of a
guy like Thibodeaux when you don't have that absolute known
coaching candidate. And obviously the way that they went about
this whole process essentially trying to poach all the top
(27:22):
coaches that are currently already under contract with teams and
got like email Udoka a huge raise and tried to
go after Chris Bench and all this stuff. So you
have a lot of questions about their approach.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Now, what I.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
Will say is with the Warriors, when they were coming
up and they had Mark Jackson at their head coach,
it had a lot of the same reaction, which was,
how could you be getting rid of Mark Jackson?
Speaker 5 (27:50):
This team is finally having postseason.
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Success for the first time in a long time, and
they ended up with Steve Kerr, who clearly did become
an upgrade. Now, I know those aren't exact comps because
Steve Kerr coming out of broadcasting whereas Mike Brown is
a lifelong coach with a somewhat proven track record. But
it just sort of feels like there is proof of
concept that these teams have shown improvement, have gotten close,
(28:16):
and it really is that one head coach move away
from putting them over the top to get them to
where they want to go.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, I mean, I also think there's some personnel stuff
they got to kind of figure out.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Right, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, you know, I mean, Karl Anthony Towns. We talked
a little bit earlier about the NBA. We're talking about
the Lakers. How the Lakers three best players are their
three worst defenders. Yeah, can't do it, right, You can
have one. Well, the Knicks, they're two best players or
two of their three best players. Put og and Obi
in there. Like Brunson struggles to guard because of his
(28:50):
size and you know he carries so much load offensively,
and then Carl Towns struggles to guard because it just
doesn't move that well, like, it's not what he does.
He's a stretch five who can really pass and shoot.
So again he's brought in to improve their defense, and
you know, Tibbs is known as a defensive guy. I
do think at some point in time, you are which
(29:14):
your personnel is and are you gonna move that personnel?
But anyway, what was the other what were the other
bullets you want to get to?
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Well, just that it.
Speaker 9 (29:24):
Embracing the expectations to your point is it's sort of
what you were saying, is that I think the expectations
are outweighed by their roster limitations.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, yes, yes, But but here's the thing. Okay, like Eastern.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
Conference Finals feels about the cap for this team now
maybe next year because of the Halliburton injury and the
Tatum injury, they actually do have a window where they
can get in there. But it does feel like this
team has basically capped out based off of realistic expectations
for what they have.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
No question. Again, I think Tim's got fired for a
couple of reasons. One he he doesn't play his bench
now it does. And then when he did play his bench,
they played well. But again, whether or not that actually
means anything, right, because you know, guys go by data
and a long term the data would have played out.
(30:16):
But whatever I think Tibbs, they struggle. He struggled to
work in a group and to make the owner feel
like he was at all even part of it. Right.
I'm sure there were some players that they had that
it didn't feel like they were part of Tibb's plans
and that they can stab you in the back in
terms of exit meetings and whatever. And then I think
a lot of people thought, Okay, the Celtics, Tatum gets hurt,
(30:40):
and all we had to do is beat the Sixers,
and we can't beat the Sixers, I mean the Sixer,
excuse me, the Pacers to get to the finals, and
the time is now. The expectations are high, not just
because they went to the finals, but because the Celtics,
the Pacers and the Bucks are at least a year
away from competing because they've all lost one of their
(31:01):
best players to an achilles tear. Sure, and you know
who are the other teams, right, the Sixers who are
held together by Scotch tape with Joel Embiid, Right, and
then there's the Knicks. So there are gargantuan expectations. Some
of it's because of this year's success, but a lot
of it is because I think most people think next year,
(31:22):
what the East really is wide open for a team
like the Magic, a team like the Knicks, a team
like the Sixers.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
All Right, we'll wrap up here with some NFL. The
Denver Broncos, one of the surprise teams last year, getting
into the playoffs with a rookie quarterback despite having to
pay out that large dead cap hit for moving on
from the Russell Wilson contract. Well, they're wide receiver Marvin Mims.
He says, he's telling serious XM NFL radio. Things are
(31:51):
feeling different in the Mile High City these days.
Speaker 11 (31:54):
You can really feel that, like the times are like
changing for us, you know. And then we're kind of
like people always like to say, like a win now mode.
And you know, with the way things went last year.
I mean, we were projected to be last in the
league last year end up making their wild cards. So
the guys are here last year they believe, and the
guys are coming in they want to make an impact too.
So I think everyone's hungry.
Speaker 9 (32:15):
You feeling things are different for the Broncos this time around.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Well, can be honest about success?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Can we be honest with about the AFC West? Right?
Who the cross who you cross over against? Is it like, Okay,
I'm a Charger fan, you're a Charger fan, Right? But
last year was supposed to be kind of a rebuild,
reloads sort of year and they end up making the playoffs. Why? Well,
because look at who they crossed over against, you know,
(32:43):
I mean your schedule does matter. Yeah, Denver was at
a last place schedule, so they benefited playing it, you know,
I think teams that were down in terms of their crossover.
So this year, I think it's gonna be different. I
think it'll be harder for for that division as a whole. Right,
(33:04):
there's when one division has three playoff teams and two
of them nobody thought would be playoff teams, right, total,
I think it tells you a little bit about who
they crossed over against schedule wise, and you look at
Denver and I completely understand. I'm not gonna be schedule
guy because we don't know who they play against, because
you don't know who's going to be healthy when they
(33:26):
play against them. And sometimes you know preseason prediction for
whose game good doesn't really fit.
Speaker 9 (33:33):
I will go against that and I will play the
role of schedule guy for you. There are just some
teams on here on its surface that look like they
have some real soft spots. They have the Titans and
the Colts early.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yet to start the season that again should be you'd
think too and zero to start the year where they
take on the Chargers. But then you get Chargers, Bengals,
Eagles again, you get Jets and Giants at home.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
You get both New York teams.
Speaker 9 (34:01):
Right then you go towards back end of the schedule,
maybe the Jags at the end of the year, who
knows where they'll be at, so they're outside of We
know the division games are going to be tough, not
just for the division games, but we expect the division
to be incredibly competitive this year. But some of their
non division games, they were given some breaks and it
looks like it could be right in the mix for
(34:22):
another nine to ten win season and we'll see if
that's enough to get them back into the playoffs for
a second straight year.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, that's fair, but again, look at look at last year. Okay,
and be honest with yourself. Right that they beat Tampa,
Tampa is a playoff team, but outside of that, they
beat this is this is all their wins, the Jets,
the Raiders, the Saints, the Panthers, the Falcons, the Raiders,
(34:49):
the Browns, the Colts, and then last game of the
year when nobody played for Kansas City, they beat the Chiefs, right,
So they beat one good team all year, and then
they beat the Chiefs at the end of the year
when the Chiefs played their backups. Right again, So it
doesn't mean that we diminish what they did, especially considering
(35:11):
where they were and you have a rookie quarterback, but
it does paint kind of proper context for what they're
actually going up against. And that's right. Music with the news.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line news.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Uh chat, Holmgren just signed a new max extension. How
big a risk is this for Oklahoma? City. We'll discuss next.
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Herd.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
One More Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Doug Gottlieban for Collins The Herd, Fox Sports Radio, iHeart
Radio app. So the big news today in the NBA
so far is Chet Holmgren agrees to a MAX extension
for the twenty twenty five NBA champion Oaklahoma City. Under
Remember this is Chet, of course, who had a good,
(36:07):
not great playoff run. Right He averaged fifteen game the playoffs,
nine rebounds, two blocks, which obviously kind of plays to
the real strength of what he does defensively. Offensively, he
struggled shooting the ball at times right shot below thirty
from three, but kind of figured it out as he went,
(36:31):
and they end up they end up winning in Game
seven after Tyrese Halberton goes down with the torrent Achilles tenant. Now,
for his career, Holmgren's been in the league technically three years,
but he's only played one full season. That was going
back to last year. This year, hurt his hip and
(36:51):
only played thirty two games. So you have a guy
who's seven to two pounds three years the league, only
played one full season and he just got a MAX extension.
Earlier in the show, we were joined by Anthony Slater
from The Athletic. He said this about what Chet's contract
(37:13):
means O Cloma City.
Speaker 11 (37:15):
I mean, I think it's just checked the box that
you knew was coming.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
But you know, you're you're getting the next six years
of Chet Holmer's early prime into his prime. Sure he's
not your you know, prototype number two certainly as a score,
I think he's got higher upside there, but I mean
he's a rim protecting three point shooter at seven feet tall.
To me, like, you know, that is a very valuable
piece for a team that wants to win with defense first.
(37:41):
And you saw it in the play you know we can.
We can kind of at times. I certainly did you
know their first playoff run together when they lost in
the second round, even though they're the one seed. I
kind of wondered if Jaylen Williams and Chet Hoolmer could
be legitimate number two number three on a title team.
Well that question kind of was answered a month ago.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Well, yeah, I mean yeah, I mean they won, so
it was answered. And I love the fact that Anthony
knows what I've said on my show, Doug Gottliebin for Collin,
I have the Doug Gottlieb Show that follows this one.
It's like a lot of people talk about the offensive
pieces and the spacing, Like, dude, Oklahoma City was built
(38:22):
to be the best defensive team in the league, and
then they have one great offensive player who kind of
carries them a secondary really really good offensive player, and
then they just kind of try and figure out the
rest and they run good offense. But personnel wise, some
of it's because of youth, and some of it's just
because they're made up of a defensive first mentality. They're
(38:43):
never going to be at times the most beautiful offensive
basketball which don't have to be win with your defense.
So look, do I think Chet checks those boxes as
a defensive weapon. He No, He protects the rim, but
he's not perfect at it. But he can switch and
guard the perimeter as well. Yes, And my guest would
(39:05):
be his three point shooting should at some point in
time improve over time and regain his confidence. Yes, But
the fear is the injuries. Right, fear is the injuries.
And you can say, hey, man, he's getting stronger, he's
getting bigger. This is after being in the league three years.
(39:26):
He weighs two hundred and eight pounds. Like you can
try and throw weight on dudes, but it doesn't mean
that it sticks. And you can say, ah, he't not
gonna get hurt. But he did the other part to it.
And this is really important. Is I legitimately think that
(39:49):
the guys in Oklahoma City love play in Oklahoma City,
you don't have to worry about some of the other
stuff you worry about in other places. Right. The players
are close, They are all about the same an There
is a great kind of unifying spirit. And Oklahoma City
knows they can't go out and get big name free
agents because they won't stay. They got it. They're very
(40:10):
understanding of who they are as a franchise and and
where they are in the grand landscape of things. Some
guys just don't work there, but they won't ask for
a hometown discount because really what they should go to.
You'd think you go to Jayel Williams, you go to
chet Holme. I'm gonna go Look, dude, you guys are
gonna be superstars. You're gonna stay here forever. How about
(40:32):
you save us some money because the production has been
good and you think will get better. But when you
only play a season and a half of three years,
do you reward that with a max deal? You kind
of have to if you're Oklahoma City, But should you
have to? I guess we'll find out. These are the things.
(40:54):
His health is probably going to be the first determinant
as to whether or not they can be a champion.
Several times over, Okay, coming up next in the hurd,
Guess who's on the w NBA two K cover. No,
not her, We'll discuss next time. Dog Gotlieb. This is
(41:15):
the hurd.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be or however you may be making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug. Got leave
in for Colin Cowherd Callings Back takes Monday, after good
old fashioned week off. Keith Law's gonna join us UH
Senior Major League Baseball Senior MLB senior writer for The Athletic.
We'll get his thoughts on what's wrong with the Dodgers
(00:49):
and how about this Miserowski pretty pretty amazing stuff and
what about the guy leading the Bigs in home runs?
Please in Seattle Ballpark, a dead ball ballpark of all places.
Plus we got Major League Baseball's Draft up coming this
weekend as well, A lot to get to with Keith Law.
(01:10):
I want to start with this, so there's a new
season of the Quarterback on Netflix, and a guy who
I do think that America sort of fell in love
with watching this series going back two years ago was
Kirk Cousins. And we talked to start the show, if
(01:32):
you're just joining us, Doug goleli'ben for Colin. We talked
about how WNBA players, I think the best term would
be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans and media for so long.
Now they're like taking it out on Caitlin Clark. I
think Kirk Cousins is a guy that's had a lot
of AMMO. Picked in the fourth round from a team
(01:54):
that drafted a first round starting quarterback who was Rookie
of the Year that year in RG three, and then
when it became his franchise, felt like they didn't like
him there. Heck, the president of the team in an
interview kept calling him Kirk Cousin. When his name is
Kirk Cousins. I'd like, again, you're showing somebody disrespect if
(02:15):
he don't even know their name right repeatedly. Yes, I know,
I know I screwed up blast out, but my point
is when it's and again, it was like Bruce Allen
was like eight times and when to talking about Kirk Cousins.
Kirk Cousins, Kirk Couins like, name's Kirk, and I work
for you and I'm starting quarterback. So Kirk has spent
(02:35):
time exacting his own personal revenge for people who didn't
think he was good enough. Got the fully guaranteed contract,
got the extension of Minnesota, won a road playoff game
in New Orleans, proved on some level that he's better
than advertised in primetime games, and then departs at the
(02:56):
end of last season. Now full disclosure, end of last
season and he had torn his achilles tendent. He was
on his way to a unbelievable year in the neighborhood
of six thousand yards passing that season. But Kirk Cousins
struggled from about the midpoint this year and ultimately got
pulled for Michael Pennix, who was the top ten pick
(03:18):
of the Falcons. Too many people's surprise, like you're going
to sign Kirk Cousins then draft a first round pick quarterback.
That seems weird. So in that season of the quarterback,
with the new season the quarterback. Here's what Cousins had
to say about it. If he could do it all
over again.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback so high. At
the time, it felt like I had been a little
bit misled or certainly if I had the information around
free agency, it certainly would have affected my decision. I
had no reason to leave Minnesota with how much we
loved it there if both teams are going to be
drafting a quarterback high. But I've also learned in twelve
(03:57):
years in this league that you're not entitled anything. It's
all about being able to earn your spot and prove yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, so he like backtracks, is like, hey, you know
you're in your spot, you prove yourself or whatever. But
had I known, look this this one's this one seems
pretty obvious, right. I get that he likes it, but
the buyer's remorse that Cousins has like keep in mind
(04:27):
that again, Cousins has won in the business of sports.
He's the guy who's done no extra years. Just give
me the years, give me the money, make it all guaranteed.
He and that work for him Minnesota. But Minnesota was
moving on, make no mistake about it. They were moving on.
(04:48):
They had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and
other pieces and they had made the decision, Hey, we're
gonna go get a first round pick, and then they
signed Sam Darnold as a as a placeholder or just
in case. And remember he had worked in that offensive
system when he was in San Francisco the two years previously.
(05:09):
Like this is one of those things that it sounds
really good in documentaries, like, man, if I knew they
were taking a first rump pick and Minnesota's taking a
first runk pick, and I love Minnesota, I would have
stayed in Minnesota's Like what are you talking about, Kirk.
They weren't gonna pay you at Minnesota what Atlanta pays you.
You know, they just weren't.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It's like, yeah, I totally would have stayed there, would
you really? Again, that's cow, that's fertilizer, That's what that is.
I remember he essentially signed a two year deals four years,
one eighty okay, ninety million guaranteed at at signing. Minnesota
(06:00):
wasn't giving you that, Like what are you even talking about? Yeah, hey,
had I known that they were gonna do that? Like
I didn't. I didn't know they were gonna do that.
And again, does it look great for Atlanta to draft
a quarterback. Actually, now it really does because Kirk Cousins,
who apparently got hit and you know, decide to play well,
(06:23):
hurt because he knows that, you know, one of the
one of the biggest lies. There's lots of lies told
in the NFL, but the old you don't lose your
job to injury, Like what did true Bledsoell lose his
job to injury? Of course he did. Lots of guys
have lost their job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently
(06:47):
took a hit to his shoulder and didn't tell any
you know, now's I didn't tell anybody that I was
I was hurt. Like, yeah, dude, you were playing, you're
playing well, and then all of a sudden your production
fell off a cliff. He played fourteen games. Let's not
act like Atlanta did you wrong. Oh man, Atlanta, they
(07:08):
did me wrong. They gave you fourteen games, and the
last couple of which were bad. You threw eighteen touchdowns
and sixteen interceptions. Like, I can't believe they drafted another quarterback.
Why because you were coming off of an achilles tendon
tear and they gave you ninety guaranteed, So you're gonna
(07:33):
get paid this year. They'll probably trade you when somebody
else's quarterback goes down, and you'll get a chance because
you'll get you know, nobody's gonna pick up that option,
and you'll get another contract next year. I just don't
lie to us and go like, hey, if I knew
that that Atlanta was gonna draft the quarterback, I would
have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't because they weren't
(07:54):
gonna give you ninety million dollars. Stop lying, so NFL players,
stop lying about we don't have guaranteed contracts. You do,
they're just not all fully guaranteed. And the ones that
are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you want to
read in the paper. I don't know. Just the manipulation
(08:16):
or and and some of it is. Again, this is
how any athlete Kirk Cousins can think that way, because
the whole world has done me wrong and I proved
them wrong time and again. Is how he's made it. Okay,
But again, let's not kid ourselves. Okay, that he wasn't
(08:39):
staying in Minnesota, and he was coming off an Achilles
ten and tear. And if you think that Minnesota, where
he'd had sort of an up and down run there
ended on the up. He was playing really well, uh
in that system. But if you think they were going
to give him a four year two years of a
guaranteed contract and oh yeah, by the way, when a
guy stays, he wants to get paid more, not lesser
(09:00):
a home crown discount in the NFL. I think Kirk
Cousins is trying to rewrite history and get a sympathetic year.
And no one's really sympathetic, not because we don't like him,
just because, dude, you're still getting paid. You're gonna get
another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell
us that Minnesota was going to keep you when they
didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year. Right,
(09:23):
Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate
under the San Francisco model. As long as they can
get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible.
That's the San Francisco model. Okay. Coming up next in
the Herd here on Fox Sports Radio, what is the
(09:43):
matter with the Dodgers? What's wrong? Swept by the Astros
on the brink of beings, Swept by the Brewers. We'll
discuss that upcoming next.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter. Not a impacific Hey.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
What's up everybody?
Speaker 6 (10:01):
It's me three time pro bowler LeVar Arrington, and I
couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called up
on Game?
Speaker 5 (10:08):
What is up on Game?
Speaker 6 (10:09):
You ass along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Huschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion Yup, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, TJ. Huschman, Zada,
(10:31):
and Plexico Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcast from.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Doug Gottlieb it for calling us to hurt Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio App. Welcome in. UH. Sunday is the Major League
Baseball Draft. I know that because dear friend of mine,
Matt Holiday's son Ethan, is getting ready to be drafted,
likely on Sunday now. His brother Jackson, two years ago
(11:01):
was the number one overall pick. But that was a
bit of a surprise. Ethan maybe the number one overall
pick this year. I bring it up because our next guest,
Keith Law, longtime writer and baseball analyst for the Athletic
It joins as he just put out his top one
hundred prospects list and you had number one. Keith, does
(11:24):
that mean that Ethan will go number one? Does the
number one prospect go number one in the baseball draft? No?
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Quite often he doesn't. He didn't. Last year number one
prospect was Charlie Condon, who won the Golden Spikes Awards.
He went third. Travis Bezana went first. He was I
think one of the runners up actually for the Golden Spikes.
So it wasn't a crazy pick. But it is often
about money and what a team believes, how much a
team believes they can maybe saved taking a slightly lesser
(11:52):
player that would allow them to then spend over the
slot recommendations for later picks and get players they think
are talents instead.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Do you think Holiday goes number one?
Speaker 7 (12:05):
I don't. My answer might have been different on Saturday,
but Washington's decision to fire Mike Rizoe, who I actually
think did a great job for them on multiple fronts.
You know, I understood Rizzo's drafting preferences just particularly in
the first round pretty well. And he had an amazing
relationship with Scott Boris Holiday, the whole Holiday family. They're
all Boris clients, and Mike really liked to take the
(12:29):
sort of premium most famous so to speak, players on
the board that you know, his belief is what they're
famous for a reason. Even Holiday is famous for a reason.
He's super talented. Now I have a feeling they'll do
something a little bit more conservative, which is not to
say it will be the wrong pick. There's plenty of
good candidates this year, sure, but I don't think they'll
go high school. I think they'll go college.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Now, speaking of college, Paul Skins continues, there is ridiculous,
but his team stinks and the firm stand isn't particularly good.
Right Other than that, mister Lincoln, how is the show?
I know ownership came out like what not trade and
pull skates? Is there a world in which they replenish
their farm system by moving skates?
Speaker 7 (13:07):
I don't think so. Nobody has talked to this totally
might be, but nobody I've talked to has really even
brought this up as a possibility, like, I think they
would trade Mitch Keller, and I think they should trade
Mitch Keller because obviously with pictures you just worry you're
gonna hold on too long and they're gonna get hurt
or lose their stuff and not be so effective anymore.
But I think they look at Schemes as like he's profitable.
(13:28):
We don't really talk about players that way specifically, but
when Schemes is pitching right, it's everyone's tuning in. People
want to go to the ballpark, is they say it
somedays he's the only reason you might buy a ticket
to go see the Pirates. Not trying to be mean,
he's just that good.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
No, you're not saying anything that you Empire fans like, yeah,
you're right, you're right.
Speaker 7 (13:48):
Yeah, So I think he stays if i'm them, though,
I'm like anybody else here as a vail, Like I've
seen Kbrian Hayes, who signed a very very long extension.
They're shopping him. They should. I like Cobrian Hayes. Maybe
he'll be better somewhere else, but he's not helping the
Pirates and they need to replenish. Like you said, they
need to boost, particularly the hitting talent in the farm system.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Uh. Misserrowski after giving up a too h curveball to Shohey,
was outstanding again last night. He had the maybe two
bad at bats as a pitcher against the Mets, maybe
three in one inning. Outside of that, he's been outstanding.
It's it's really he's got great stuff. But as you
pointed out right, you're always worried about the young pitcher
(14:32):
getting in too soon because injury or you know, second
time through. Uh, you know, against teams that they get
a book on him. What is the league saying about
about Misserrowski and his ability to maintain this level of dominance.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
So the pure stuff, just if we're just talking even
just fashlawng Slider always have even when he was a
junior college prospect a couple of years ago and burst
think of second round stuff with elite never threw a
lot of strikes. That has gradually gotten better, And you know,
there's always been.
Speaker 8 (15:09):
A concern it's going to get hurt because it's.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
A violent delivery and he throws so hard so consistently.
Guys like that just don't have a great track record
of staying healthy. I can't predict an injury. Yeah, I
look at him, and I fear that guy looks riskier
than most. The thing I'm most curious to see is
what you just said. As hitters get to see him
again and again, are they going to start to lay
off a lot of that stuff. He can get guys
(15:31):
out in the zone, but I don't think he can
locate in the zone consistently enough. And they're going to try,
especially that slider. If they're going to lay off the
slider out of the zone, maybe even try to cheat
on the fastball a little bit. And that's kind of
what the Mets did. The Mets, especially second time through
the order, looked like they made an adjustment. So as
he gets around the league, do we start to see
that happen. And you know what, if he keeps getting
(15:52):
guys out the second time through, I will gladly sort of,
you know, shake my hands and say, yup, Okay, he's good.
He's a number one starter and there's at least those
two pitches. You do not see many guys in baseball
rotation or bullpens who have two pitches that good.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
The Dodgers have lost five in a row, and like
Look again, they were coming off of a run where
they won I don't know, thirteen out of sixteen, but
these are playoff teams Astros and Brewers, and in four
of those five games they've only scored one run. I
know they're pitching is yet to be healthy, but what's
happened to the Dodgers' bats?
Speaker 7 (16:30):
Yeah, I wonder a little bit. Even coming into the year,
we just sort of off thought they, you know, they
would bludgeon everybody right though. The offense looked like it
was going to be, if not the best, among the best,
and they are still second in the National League in
run scored per neame, but just slightly behind the Cubs.
So I don't think there's reason to panic. The offense
is on the older side. Do they start to see
(16:51):
some fatigue over the course of a long season. Is
this an opportunity maybe for the front office to say,
let's go get another maybe a bat with some versatility,
just to give some guys off so that they're a
little fresher into September and October. I'm just speculating it
could just be a bad couple of weeks for them
against some pretty good competition, as you said, because even
with the offensive struggles the last week or two, they
(17:13):
are still among the best offenses in either league.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
So far this year, no question. I look at that
National League, right, you got the Mets have fifty three wins,
the Phillies fifty three wins, the Cubs fifty four, the
Brewers fifty two. You know, the Giants. They went on
a walk off inside the park. That's nuts, nuts, But
(17:37):
it's still the Dodgers and everybody else, assuming Blake Snell
is back in time that that they're healthy. If I
were to say, Keith, put your life savings on one
team in the National League, being the biggest challenger to
the Dodgers, what would you answer.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
Be, Oh, that's a good one. I think I'd still
say the Phillies because even though they're offense, my worst
Philly stands so I see a lot of Philly schemes
when I'm not actually out, and their offense can be
really frustrating. But they're going to make the playoffs. Their
rotation maybe the best in baseball. They could carve their
way through October just on pitching. And I think back
(18:13):
to those six Cardinals, who weren't that good of a team,
but their pitchers got real good, real fast in October,
and they more or less just pitch their way to
the World Series Championship. And I think the Phillies, they're
just such a good rotation on paper. I think they
could do that. I'd like it even more if they
went out and acquired a little more bullpen help. But
Dave Dombrowski always does stuff like that, like, they'll be active,
(18:36):
they'll be buyers, they'll identify something they can fix at
the deadline, and the bullpen is generally the easiest thing
to do.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
In July, the Detroit I'm just trying to figure out.
I mean, obviously Ryley Green and Spencer Tolger Center are amazing, yep.
But I mean the Tigers on paper look awesome, and
it's just so hard to comprehend. You know, a team that,
you know, what was it nineteen they lost one hundred
(19:03):
and fourteen games to begin the slow build back, but
you know four years ago as ninety six losses. Is
this real what we're seeing? Fifty nine and thirty four
great run differential? Is this real?
Speaker 8 (19:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (19:15):
I think it is. I think they're helped by a
week's division, right, Nobody else in the division's over fives,
so that boosts them a little bit. But they got
They had one guy in the whole line up before
about two weeks ago who was a below average hitter,
and that was Trey Sweeney, and now he's out with
the miners. They got Parker Meadows back. They're trying to
hoavier Buys back at shortstop they can roll out. Maybe
(19:37):
it's not the best lineup, but it has no holes
won through nine and I think that's a big part
of why they've been one of the better run scoring
teams in the league. Also, it's not just Treik Schooble
like it was last year. It was the you know,
Schooble and pitching chaos was aj Hinch's term for it,
and it worked, but no one you can't do that
for a whole season, and Schoogles just as good. But
(19:57):
Casey Mice looks like he's finally turning into the I
thought he'd be eight years ago when he was the
first overall pick. They've gotten great work out of results
and Jack Flaherty has at least taken up some innings.
They should go get a starter. That's and I think
they're going to do something. They're definitely buyers at this point.
They've got a great farm system. I would like to
see them go get one more playoff worthy starter for October.
(20:20):
But I do think they're very real. I don't just
think they're going to the playoffs. Theyll probably end up
with home fields for at.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
Least around Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, and Will West has been awesome, right, Yes, that
helps them. Yeah, I mean, but when you have somebody
then close the door and he's doing so incredibly well,
it's it's just crazy to see the Tigers. You're like,
is that wait?
Speaker 7 (20:42):
The Tigers? Tigers? Yeah, they got good really fast. It's unusual.
But it's also like it should give a lot of
other fans hope you can turn things around really quickly.
And the Tigers, you know, bad for a lot of years,
a lot of high draft picks. Several of those guys
just kind of broke out all at once in like
a year and a half span. They waited for a
(21:02):
while on to he broke out Miz they waited forever,
and through Tommy John surgery, he broke out Riley Green.
I agree with you, he's a superstar. All those guys
kind of hit around the same time, and that's how
they went from one hundred losses to they could win
on hundred games this year.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The big dumper, I just I can't say it. I
can't say it enough. I try not chuck out the
big dumber cal Riley. Okay, It's it's one thing to
have thirty six home runs, have a one point two
nine ops it, which is second best in the league.
It's nothing to do it as a catcher. And then
the third thing to do it in Seattle where balls
(21:37):
do not fly out of Seattle at all. Right, Dennis
Ballpark for home runs in the league. How sustainable is this?
Can all those things consider that he's a catcher and
that he's playing in Seattle.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
It's I believe in the old scouting axiom that catchers
often developed later because there's so much wear and tear
on their bodies and because we them to do basically
two full time jobs. Well, he's twenty eight. That's kind
of peak years anyway for a lot of hitters. So
I'm not shocked he's taken a step forward. I am
probably most maybe not shocked, amazed he's become a way
(22:14):
more disciplined hitter, and he's hit thirty homers before he's
gonna hit fifty five this year. That's another level. But
it's that his at faster, better, is walking more, He's
making more contact overall. That's the thing that I think
is so amazing when we've seen guys do that more
often than not. It is sustainable. So we might see
a couple of years of Cal Rawly doing his best
Johnny Bench impression before it happened. I don't care if
(22:37):
he's the big dumper or the medium dumper or the
little dumper. Right, eventually it catches up to you. It's
hard to see a catcher of the big league eventually.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
It'll say.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
But to me, I say, enjoy it. And by the way,
I CBS News have me on and you're damn right,
I said, big dumper on national television.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Hey, you just came down that MLB is going to
use the ABS challenge system in the All Star Game.
Granted it's the All Star Game, like they'll probably just
do it to bring attention, but seems like a precursor
for what's gonna happen next year in the Biggs.
Speaker 7 (23:04):
Right, Yes, absolutely, I love it. By the way, I've
seen it in the Arizona Fall League. It's been a
couple of Triple A games this year to see like
Andrew Painter and Cam Schlitler just putching it's nice and
the Yankees I was always Triple A start last week.
I love the ABS and the fans get into it
because they don't know if you've seen it. If they
do the they put it on the jumbo con and
they show a computer graphic to the path of the
ball and people cheer or boo or whatever. But it
(23:27):
adds an excitement to what would otherwise be Nobody likes replay.
That's basically what this is. Another kind of replay. But said,
they make it fun, so I'm and also I think
it makes things more accurate, So I'm a big.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Thing, right, Keith, Great to catch up man. Enjoy the draft.
I know it's like your personal Christmas because it challenges
the depth of your knowledge. It's outstanding. Check his work
out in the Athletic It's got the top one hundred prospects.
The MLB Draft is uh what is it? Six Scott
Eastern Time on Sunday. It lasts essentially in perpetuity, but
it's still amazing stuff because that's how that's how top
(23:59):
ball teams are made. Keith, thanks for joining us. I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
That's Keith Law from the Ethnic Let's get to ryme
music with the news.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Hello, Ryan, what do you got for it? Oh?
Speaker 9 (24:16):
Doug, Oh, it's good to be listening to two steam
heads talk about America's pastime, summertime. Good stuff there between
you and Keith Law. But we are going to turn
our attention to the association the NBA, the Knicks. They
officially introduced Mike Brown as their new head coach, and
here's what he had to say about the massive, perhaps
(24:39):
unrealistic expectations that he's facing in New York.
Speaker 10 (24:43):
Nobody has any bigger expectations first of all than I do.
My expectations are high. This is the Knicks. I talked
about Madison Square Garden being iconic. I love and embrace
the expectations that come along with it.
Speaker 9 (24:58):
Do you I'm sure what you supposed to say?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
What are you supposed to say?
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Absolutely? No, I get it. I'm not believed.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I mean said like like listen. So, So here's the
here's my Mike Brown thing. I know, Mike, I think
it to be an exceptional human being. Like he's a
legit good dude, Okay, and all of us I would
hope have learned from our past successes, but also our
past mistakes. I think trying to run Princeton offense when
(25:26):
you have Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard and those guys
Eddie Jordan running it when you were in LA, that's
a mistake that is firing, right, But we need to
remember that he did help, like the Lebron team that
went to the finals that had Booby Gibson as his
starting you know guard oppos. Yeah, Mike Brown was the coach,
(25:50):
so you couldn't hire somebody to replace Thibodeau who hadn't
done as much or more than Tips had done in
the playoffs. Mike Brown checks that out. He comes from
very good stock, right, got spurs. And of course Steve
Kerr he's been a head coach. He's been a very
less successful head coach. Do I care that he's like, yeah,
(26:12):
I run towards xpitting, Like that's great, dude, It's New York.
They're crazy. Owner is crazy. But again, it's opening press conference.
Let's just take a beat and see how it plays out,
doesn't have a perfect roster, got to be improved, and
then they got to figure out. Really it feels like,
you know, is the owner gonna let the basketball people
(26:33):
do their job and then oh, yeah, by the way,
does Rick Brunson help them or hurt them? As it
appears again, this is just based on what I've heard
and what we've seen with some former players. Does he
have too much say with the coaching staff as an
as system but also the father of your best player.
Speaker 9 (26:51):
I have a couple of points on this which almost
kind of conflict with each other, but I want to
throw them at you.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Okay, So okay. With Mike Brown, it's hard.
Speaker 9 (27:01):
To say that he is a definitive upgrade over Thibodeaux.
So that's where the questions come into play, and you
start to go, why are you getting rid of a
guy like Thibodeaux when you don't have that absolute known
coaching candidate. And obviously the way that they went about
this whole process essentially trying to poach all the top
(27:22):
coaches that are currently already under contract with teams and
got like email Udoka a huge raise and tried to
go after Chris Bench and all this stuff. So you
have a lot of questions about their approach.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Now, what I.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
Will say is with the Warriors, when they were coming
up and they had Mark Jackson at their head coach,
it had a lot of the same reaction, which was,
how could you be getting rid of Mark Jackson?
Speaker 5 (27:50):
This team is finally having postseason.
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Success for the first time in a long time, and
they ended up with Steve Kerr, who clearly did become
an upgrade. Now, I know those aren't exact comps because
Steve Kerr coming out of broadcasting whereas Mike Brown is
a lifelong coach with a somewhat proven track record. But
it just sort of feels like there is proof of
concept that these teams have shown improvement, have gotten close,
(28:16):
and it really is that one head coach move away
from putting them over the top to get them to
where they want to go.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, I mean, I also think there's some personnel stuff
they got to kind of figure out.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Right, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, you know, I mean, Karl Anthony Towns. We talked
a little bit earlier about the NBA. We're talking about
the Lakers. How the Lakers three best players are their
three worst defenders. Yeah, can't do it, right, You can
have one. Well, the Knicks, they're two best players or
two of their three best players. Put og and Obi
in there. Like Brunson struggles to guard because of his
(28:50):
size and you know he carries so much load offensively,
and then Carl Towns struggles to guard because it just
doesn't move that well, like, it's not what he does.
He's a stretch five who can really pass and shoot.
So again he's brought in to improve their defense, and
you know, Tibbs is known as a defensive guy. I
do think at some point in time, you are which
(29:14):
your personnel is and are you gonna move that personnel?
But anyway, what was the other what were the other
bullets you want to get to?
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Well, just that it.
Speaker 9 (29:24):
Embracing the expectations to your point is it's sort of
what you were saying, is that I think the expectations
are outweighed by their roster limitations.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, yes, yes, But but here's the thing. Okay, like Eastern.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
Conference Finals feels about the cap for this team now
maybe next year because of the Halliburton injury and the
Tatum injury, they actually do have a window where they
can get in there. But it does feel like this
team has basically capped out based off of realistic expectations
for what they have.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
No question. Again, I think Tim's got fired for a
couple of reasons. One he he doesn't play his bench
now it does. And then when he did play his bench,
they played well. But again, whether or not that actually
means anything, right, because you know, guys go by data
and a long term the data would have played out.
(30:16):
But whatever I think Tibbs, they struggle. He struggled to
work in a group and to make the owner feel
like he was at all even part of it. Right.
I'm sure there were some players that they had that
it didn't feel like they were part of Tibb's plans
and that they can stab you in the back in
terms of exit meetings and whatever. And then I think
a lot of people thought, Okay, the Celtics, Tatum gets hurt,
(30:40):
and all we had to do is beat the Sixers,
and we can't beat the Sixers, I mean the Sixer,
excuse me, the Pacers to get to the finals, and
the time is now. The expectations are high, not just
because they went to the finals, but because the Celtics,
the Pacers and the Bucks are at least a year
away from competing because they've all lost one of their
(31:01):
best players to an achilles tear. Sure, and you know
who are the other teams, right, the Sixers who are
held together by Scotch tape with Joel Embiid, Right, and
then there's the Knicks. So there are gargantuan expectations. Some
of it's because of this year's success, but a lot
of it is because I think most people think next year,
(31:22):
what the East really is wide open for a team
like the Magic, a team like the Knicks, a team
like the Sixers.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
All Right, we'll wrap up here with some NFL. The
Denver Broncos, one of the surprise teams last year, getting
into the playoffs with a rookie quarterback despite having to
pay out that large dead cap hit for moving on
from the Russell Wilson contract. Well, they're wide receiver Marvin Mims.
He says, he's telling serious XM NFL radio. Things are
(31:51):
feeling different in the Mile High City these days.
Speaker 11 (31:54):
You can really feel that, like the times are like
changing for us, you know. And then we're kind of
like people always like to say, like a win now mode.
And you know, with the way things went last year.
I mean, we were projected to be last in the
league last year end up making their wild cards. So
the guys are here last year they believe, and the
guys are coming in they want to make an impact too.
So I think everyone's hungry.
Speaker 9 (32:15):
You feeling things are different for the Broncos this time around.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Well, can be honest about success?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Can we be honest with about the AFC West? Right?
Who the cross who you cross over against? Is it like, Okay,
I'm a Charger fan, you're a Charger fan, Right? But
last year was supposed to be kind of a rebuild,
reloads sort of year and they end up making the playoffs. Why? Well,
because look at who they crossed over against, you know,
(32:43):
I mean your schedule does matter. Yeah, Denver was at
a last place schedule, so they benefited playing it, you know,
I think teams that were down in terms of their crossover.
So this year, I think it's gonna be different. I
think it'll be harder for for that division as a whole. Right,
(33:04):
there's when one division has three playoff teams and two
of them nobody thought would be playoff teams, right, total,
I think it tells you a little bit about who
they crossed over against schedule wise, and you look at
Denver and I completely understand. I'm not gonna be schedule
guy because we don't know who they play against, because
you don't know who's going to be healthy when they
(33:26):
play against them. And sometimes you know preseason prediction for
whose game good doesn't really fit.
Speaker 9 (33:33):
I will go against that and I will play the
role of schedule guy for you. There are just some
teams on here on its surface that look like they
have some real soft spots. They have the Titans and
the Colts early.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yet to start the season that again should be you'd
think too and zero to start the year where they
take on the Chargers. But then you get Chargers, Bengals,
Eagles again, you get Jets and Giants at home.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
You get both New York teams.
Speaker 9 (34:01):
Right then you go towards back end of the schedule,
maybe the Jags at the end of the year, who
knows where they'll be at, so they're outside of We
know the division games are going to be tough, not
just for the division games, but we expect the division
to be incredibly competitive this year. But some of their
non division games, they were given some breaks and it
looks like it could be right in the mix for
(34:22):
another nine to ten win season and we'll see if
that's enough to get them back into the playoffs for
a second straight year.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, that's fair, but again, look at look at last year. Okay,
and be honest with yourself. Right that they beat Tampa,
Tampa is a playoff team, but outside of that, they
beat this is this is all their wins, the Jets,
the Raiders, the Saints, the Panthers, the Falcons, the Raiders,
(34:49):
the Browns, the Colts, and then last game of the
year when nobody played for Kansas City, they beat the Chiefs, right,
So they beat one good team all year, and then
they beat the Chiefs at the end of the year
when the Chiefs played their backups. Right again, So it
doesn't mean that we diminish what they did, especially considering
(35:11):
where they were and you have a rookie quarterback, but
it does paint kind of proper context for what they're
actually going up against. And that's right. Music with the news.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line news.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Uh chat, Holmgren just signed a new max extension. How
big a risk is this for Oklahoma? City. We'll discuss next.
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Herd.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
One More Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Doug Gottlieban for Collins The Herd, Fox Sports Radio, iHeart
Radio app. So the big news today in the NBA
so far is Chet Holmgren agrees to a MAX extension
for the twenty twenty five NBA champion Oaklahoma City. Under
Remember this is Chet, of course, who had a good,
(36:07):
not great playoff run. Right He averaged fifteen game the playoffs,
nine rebounds, two blocks, which obviously kind of plays to
the real strength of what he does defensively. Offensively, he
struggled shooting the ball at times right shot below thirty
from three, but kind of figured it out as he went,
(36:31):
and they end up they end up winning in Game
seven after Tyrese Halberton goes down with the torrent Achilles tenant. Now,
for his career, Holmgren's been in the league technically three years,
but he's only played one full season. That was going
back to last year. This year, hurt his hip and
(36:51):
only played thirty two games. So you have a guy
who's seven to two pounds three years the league, only
played one full season and he just got a MAX extension.
Earlier in the show, we were joined by Anthony Slater
from The Athletic. He said this about what Chet's contract
(37:13):
means O Cloma City.
Speaker 11 (37:15):
I mean, I think it's just checked the box that
you knew was coming.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
But you know, you're you're getting the next six years
of Chet Holmer's early prime into his prime. Sure he's
not your you know, prototype number two certainly as a score,
I think he's got higher upside there, but I mean
he's a rim protecting three point shooter at seven feet tall.
To me, like, you know, that is a very valuable
piece for a team that wants to win with defense first.
(37:41):
And you saw it in the play you know we can.
We can kind of at times. I certainly did you
know their first playoff run together when they lost in
the second round, even though they're the one seed. I
kind of wondered if Jaylen Williams and Chet Hoolmer could
be legitimate number two number three on a title team.
Well that question kind of was answered a month ago.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Well, yeah, I mean yeah, I mean they won, so
it was answered. And I love the fact that Anthony
knows what I've said on my show, Doug Gottliebin for Collin,
I have the Doug Gottlieb Show that follows this one.
It's like a lot of people talk about the offensive
pieces and the spacing, Like, dude, Oklahoma City was built
(38:22):
to be the best defensive team in the league, and
then they have one great offensive player who kind of
carries them a secondary really really good offensive player, and
then they just kind of try and figure out the
rest and they run good offense. But personnel wise, some
of it's because of youth, and some of it's just
because they're made up of a defensive first mentality. They're
(38:43):
never going to be at times the most beautiful offensive
basketball which don't have to be win with your defense.
So look, do I think Chet checks those boxes as
a defensive weapon. He No, He protects the rim, but
he's not perfect at it. But he can switch and
guard the perimeter as well. Yes, And my guest would
(39:05):
be his three point shooting should at some point in
time improve over time and regain his confidence. Yes, But
the fear is the injuries. Right, fear is the injuries.
And you can say, hey, man, he's getting stronger, he's
getting bigger. This is after being in the league three years.
(39:26):
He weighs two hundred and eight pounds. Like you can
try and throw weight on dudes, but it doesn't mean
that it sticks. And you can say, ah, he't not
gonna get hurt. But he did the other part to it.
And this is really important. Is I legitimately think that
(39:49):
the guys in Oklahoma City love play in Oklahoma City,
you don't have to worry about some of the other
stuff you worry about in other places. Right. The players
are close, They are all about the same an There
is a great kind of unifying spirit. And Oklahoma City
knows they can't go out and get big name free
agents because they won't stay. They got it. They're very
(40:10):
understanding of who they are as a franchise and and
where they are in the grand landscape of things. Some
guys just don't work there, but they won't ask for
a hometown discount because really what they should go to.
You'd think you go to Jayel Williams, you go to
chet Holme. I'm gonna go Look, dude, you guys are
gonna be superstars. You're gonna stay here forever. How about
(40:32):
you save us some money because the production has been
good and you think will get better. But when you
only play a season and a half of three years,
do you reward that with a max deal? You kind
of have to if you're Oklahoma City, But should you
have to? I guess we'll find out. These are the things.
(40:54):
His health is probably going to be the first determinant
as to whether or not they can be a champion.
Several times over, Okay, coming up next in the hurd,
Guess who's on the w NBA two K cover. No,
not her, We'll discuss next time. Dog Gotlieb. This is
(41:15):
the hurd.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.