May 6, 2024 • 41 mins
Colin tells you why he was right about Joel Embiid and wrong about the Knicks
He believes LeBron James doesn't guarantee anything at this point in his career
Guest: Eric Mangini
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh there we go, it's hour two. We're live in LA.
It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
I love to see and Drew bletso stop buying a
golf course. That's one of my favorite gets in a
while for us. He did not have to do that.
He's getting hydrated today. He was out late at the
comedy store after the roast last night. So that was
(00:48):
good stuff. And I appreciate that Eric Mangini, who watched
all of it, was talking to me during the break.
It really was first of all, the joke riding. We
are so lucky we live in a country with so
many talented people. Because Mickey Glazer, Jeffrey Ross, the other guy,
(01:08):
I forget Nick what sorry about that. I apologize, but
the quality of joke riding is so good. There's so
many funny people out there. And I watched that and
I was like, you know, we are surrounded. We're lucky
here in Los Angeles. We got artists and creators and
joke riders everywhere, and it was laugh out loud funny.
So we do it every Monday at this time. Where
(01:28):
Colin was right, where Colin was wrong, lots of that.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Here we go where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You know, I've always said about Joel Embi, you keep
telling me it's a superstar, and he can't get past
the second round of the Eastern Conference playoffs. I thought
this year in the playoffs, he too often played small,
he was inconsistent, he was a stats monster. He shrunk
in the fourth quarter. Listen, this NIXT team is not
real talented. Josh Hart's your second leading scorer, was a
(01:55):
prime example of the table was set for him. MAXI
is now an emerging star. It's here for the taking.
And once again Joe well mb disappointed where Colin was raw.
I like Darvin Ham, I don't love him. I was
surprised he was fired a week ago. He got a
vote of support from somebody who leaked it to the
(02:16):
athletic and now they fired him. That means Lebron wanted
him out. I thought Genie Buss would support him. There's
been a lot of talk in recent years about Genie
wanting to control the franchise and not having Lebron control it.
So it does surprise me that they let him go.
He was more than competent. I didn't know his love
his rotations. But again, there's three or four coaches in
the league, and even those guys get whacked by their fans.
(02:40):
I was surprised they fired him. Where Colin was right,
Kawhi played only two games, the Clippers lost both. I
don't really understand re signing him to that massive extension
three years, one hundred and fifty million. What do I
do I get leadership? Do I get reliability? Do I
get consistent production? What do I get for them? I
mean go to the last like twenty games of the playoffs,
(03:02):
He's played like five. Maybe I just don't know why
the league and the Clippers feel like they needed I
don't know what I'm getting. I don't get a verbal leader,
I don't get a great basketball role model get I
get chaos and unpredictability.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And no reliability, where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
On my five bold NBA predictions, I had the next
losing in the first round of the Sixers, but it
was pretty obvious by halftime of Game two New York
was gonna win this series. I mean, listen, Josh Hart's
not a score and he ended up being their second
leading scorer in the Sixers series. I mean they had
six guys averaging double figures. It's a very UNNBA like
(03:45):
playoff winning team. One star and not much help. I
didn't even know if if Kyrie and Luca could win
a series. The fact that Jalen Brunson it speaks to
a little bit how overrated the Sixers are, how weak
the East is, and also also how great Jalen Brunson is.
Where Colin was right. Innocent people don't get stressed out.
(04:08):
I've said with shoe Hey O'tani from the beginning, I
think he's innocent. Well, he leads baseball in several categories. Yesterday,
four hits, homer twice, Dodger swept the Braves. Otani is
playing like an innocent man. This is the team we expected.
The gambling scandal, I think it matters to people in
the gambling industry. Who do that stuff? You know, there's
(04:28):
a big stories in Vegas. But I think think the
average baseball fan is a casual fan. They don't watch
one hundred and sixty two games a year, and I
think they're over it. And I think Otani's playing like
an innocent man.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Where Colin was right, Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Listen, nothing against women's basketball, but this is a Caitlyn
Clark story, what she's done to women's basketball. An exhibition
road game, sold out. I also think her game will
translate to the WNBA and she'll be a dominant player.
She had twenty one points. Listen, she just gets open looks.
In the NBA, lots of guys need screens, they need passing,
(05:03):
they need help. She doesn't. She gets her own shot.
It's almost always a good shot. And it was a
sold out WNBA exhibition road game. That is iconic.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I didn't trust the Mavericks late in the year when
they got hot. I told j Mack, I said, you know,
late NBA season winning streaks when you're playing a bunch
of tanking teams don't mean anything. But did anybody else
surprise how good their defense. Was the Clippers average one
hundred a game with Westbrook and Hardin and Paul George
in a couple of games of Kawhi, they're playing unbelievable defense,
(05:40):
and you know Kyrie. It's not that people didn't like Kyrie,
it's just you know, know exactly what you're getting. But
he put on an absolute clinic against the Clippers. Where
Colin was right, told you the Lakers should have avoided Denver.
I said, when they get beat badly by Denver, Darvin
Ham's in trouble, Lebron will be passive, aggressive and swim
(06:00):
back to chaos. And that's exactly what's happened. The Lakers
are now looking for their eighth coach in fourteen years.
If that was an NFL franchise, we would call that
a circus eighth coach in fourteen years.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
We told you where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Listen, I thought Justin Fields had a chance, but every
time I watched them, it diminished. There were rumors last
week that he may be used as a kick returner.
They have been squashed, but the fact that they became
rumors tells you all you need to know. Listen, if
you're honest about it, you look for data points, fourth
quarter passer rating, completion percentage, playing from behind. There's no
(06:44):
data point that leads you to believe you could build
your franchise around it. Now he's talented, I think somebody
else will give him another shot to be the guy.
Probably a two year deal, not a five year deal
for huge money. But the fact that that was a
rumor tells you, and that he went for a six
round pick tells you. People looked at the data and
(07:05):
don't seem as a franchise guy. Where Colin was right,
where Colin was wrong on a Monday. And from that
we go to Eric Mangini joining us live. So you
watch the entire three and a half hours. You know,
the Patriots were always known as so covert and and
you know, and you watch that, what did you make
(07:26):
of it?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
It was the most unpatriot thing I've ever seen in
my life or could have ever imagined. I can't wait
to watch it again. It was. It was like belly
laugh after belly laugh, and so many things that were
talked about last night. Some were things that anybody could
get and some were things where after being there and
(07:50):
understanding the culture and experiencing it, it was just that much,
that much funnier.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
You know, I thought one of the winners last night
was Belichick. So regardless of my opinion, when Tom left
New England, he got fun, relatable, a little silly, and
when when when Bill aged, he got a little combative
and dismissive. And that's just not my opinion. The league
saw that he didn't get any interviews except Atlanta. So
(08:18):
I thought last night Bill lightening up. I thought going
Manning cast the roast like it's almost as if Bill
understands how he's viewed. Now Is that fair?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I don't think he got combative, combative and dismiss it.
I mean, he had been that way since since Cleveland.
He never The feeling on the media with Bill was always, look,
if you win, they can't touch you, and if you lose,
they can't help you. So why do I need to
do anything with the media. But he did have another side,
and he won in a lot of ways, in the
(08:52):
sense that I thought he had good material and whoever
wrote that stuff for him what did a nice job,
and he delivered it well. Now I don't think he
necessarily loved the toast with Robert Kraft, and I know
Chris Rock thought he was he was bringing two nations together.
But that's a lot easier toast to make if you're
the guy that fired someone as opposed to the guy
(09:12):
that got fired. They probably didn't love that. The the
onslaught of, you know, looking for a job or needed
job references, and just the players being able to take
shots at him. That they took shots at him in
the locker room. That happens with every locker room where
the guys are joking about the head coach, but for
(09:33):
them to be able to do it publicly and then
in a lot of ways hilariously. I thought, you know,
it was great, Drew.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I like Drew Bledsoe. I thought was really funny. I mean,
when you can joke about Tom's marriage former marriage, what
did you make I mean, you were there for the
bread Bledsoe who'd signed one hundred million dollar contract, and
that was always the documentary showed that, how tense that was.
What did you make of him last night?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I loved Drew Bloodsoe. I loved Drew Bloodsoe off the top.
And that gives you such a great indication of of
what Tom was dealing with. So he saw how smooth
Drew was, he's funny, he's poised, six ' five, good
looking guy. He had one hundred million dollar contract, he
had taken the team to the super Bowl. He was
the number one overall draft pick. And and and you
(10:21):
got a sense of his presence last night, you know,
in a situation that had to be very difficult for him,
and he had that kind of presence. So then Tom
comes into the organization. He's a six round draft picks.
He's a little bit nerdy. And the yellow jeep story
that that Drew told last night is one hundred percent true.
Tom did drive that yellow jeep. And and it's just
(10:43):
Tom was not Tom when he got there. And Tom
was nowhere near the guy we saw last night when
he got there, and and Drew was that that presence,
and and uh, it's it's amazing, you know when you
when you look back and think of the difficult the
person that Bill did make at that point to continue
on with Tom when you had an option to go
(11:05):
back to Drew, you know, as he got healthy.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know, I told Sean Payton when he was here,
I said this last hour Eric that I said, Sean,
you've got too many things in your head. You got
stories to tell. This is fun for you, but you're
going to go back to coach. Parcells did it, went
back and Belichick. You know, I do think Bill just
the way you know, he ruminates about the sport and
thinks about it. I think he's proving that he could
(11:28):
do media. But I don't think I've ever thought, oh,
this is what Bill wants to do. Parcells dabbled in
it but kind of tired of the nonsense of it.
I think Belichick does get another shot to coach. I
think he's going to be great doing all the stuff
here off air for a year. But like Peyton, I
know his age, but Bill was old when he was forty.
I just don't. I mean, he just he was never
(11:50):
young to me. So I mean I think he's going
to coach again, do you.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah. Bill's been the same guy forever as long as
I've known to know him, back in what like nineteen
ninety four. So, and that's the mark of his success too,
is his consistency and his consistent approach that they have
another side. Yeah, and people are getting to see some
of that now when he goes back to coach, it's
(12:16):
not going to be like he was last night, you know,
like Chuckles, the clown doing stand up, you know at
the laugh Factory, like he was. That's not who he's
going to be when he goes back to an organization.
He's going to be the guy that he always was.
So as long as you're willing to accept the way
that he's going to coach and the strengths that that
(12:37):
brings and and to some degree the weaknesses that that brings,
then he said, absolutely, get a second shot, I mean,
or a third shot. There's there's not many people that
you're going to be able to bring in with the
wealth of information, the volume of success and bringing a
young coach with him that he can then he can
(12:58):
then tutor to take over once he decides leave. So
have a succession plan in place, and then organizationally, you
could be in a great spot.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I got to ask you one NFL question. The draft
is now officially over. Obviously, if you hit on three
or four draft picks, they can make a team better.
There's no question about that. It is interesting, I said,
if you I can't guess how your fifth, sixth, seventh
round guys are going to be, but if I take
your free agents and your top two to three picks.
I do have a pretty good sense with your coaching
(13:28):
staff if you improved. I think Chicago J McK and
I have talked about this. I think they have a
shot to make the playoffs. And that may sound crazy
with a rookie head, you know, a defensive coach. It's
Chicago and a rookie quarterback, but Man Keenan Allen, DeAndre Swift,
Roma Dunzee, Caleb Williams, I just feel like a different
offense to me. Is it what's realistic to you?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I thought Chicago should have made playoffs last year. I
thought that the progress of Justin Fields had made and
we didn't know whether not that jump would continue. But
the amount of pieces that they had put in place
last year through free agency and through the draft was significant.
And this year they're they're even they're even in a
better spot. So let's assume that Caleb comes in and
(14:14):
and I know we're talking about Mattie ever Refluss is
a defensive head coach. But Matt took over the defense
late in the year, and when Matt took over, the
defense improved significantly when he took over his defensive coordinator,
So I think that should continue. To trend along those ways.
And it's it says volume of weapons. And if Caleb
can come in and and and make the wild plays
(14:36):
that we've seen him make throughout college without trying to
press too much. And and that's that's my biggest worry
column is the the you know, I want to be immortal.
I want to chase all the greats, you know, the
the amount of bravado and expectations that he's putting on himself,
and to some degree the organization is as well. That
can get a guy into pressing to make plays. And
(14:58):
and I don't think he's going to have to do
that with the team they have, and if he doesn't, yeah,
they could be really really good this year.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, Eric Manginie, great thoughts on the roast, as always,
my friend, I know you were laughing because you lived
in that world.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Oh my god, it was I am going to go
back and watch again. There is such a such a
good good night, all.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Right, good seeing your coach.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Take care come.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, he was there at the very beginning. He was
there with Drew Bledsoe and that documentary even if you
think it, you know, took shots at Bill. Somebody always
feels slided. Scotty Pippen felt slided in the MJ documentary,
but I didn't think it was unrealistic or or you know.
I mean, Michael Jordan said, I don't win any of
this stuff without Scotty. I mean, it was acknowledge he
(15:44):
was great. We all knew Scotty was great, but it
was going to be from Michael's perspective, that documentary happens.
It's not nearly as interesting if you don't have a
documentary on us. Michael talks, and he's only talking if
you're taking his side. And so I think the documentary
was more of the Craft family and the Brady side
than the Belichicks. So I'm okay with it. But we
still know Scottie Pippens's the best Robin ever, and we
(16:04):
still know Belichick right now is considered the best coach ever.
It didn't dig him that much. It just took some shots.
They took liberties or they took the angles that favored
the Craft side. It doesn't make it it inaccurate. That's
my take. We all know Bill's great. My big takeaway
on that Apple TV documentary was God, Bill was a
lot more fun early on, like he was funny, and
(16:27):
then you know, Boston media wears you down. It wears
down a lot of people. One more heard. The Herd
streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week
within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or
on demand whenever you like. By the way, we'll have
the Patriots Power Pyramid. A lot of alliteration there coming up.
(16:48):
If you go top down, where do you rank the
importance of the longest by a mile? NFL dynasty, pro
sports dynasty. You saw him at you know, Yukon women's basketball,
see serena a great individual sport. You just don't get
twenty year dynasties, which it was a dynasty at the beginning,
a dynasty at the end, and fantastic. Maybe the most
(17:10):
entertaining teams were in the middle with Randy Moss.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Is Craft gonna be included in that because he's everybody counts.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I would use a deflate gate ball boy if it mattered.
I do not think it does. I'll include everybody, and
I'll give my reasoning behind everybody. Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Turn on the news. This is the Herd Line news.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Let's do some football here after the draft Bucky Brooks
put out his list of his eight perfect fits, breaking
down which player landed in the best scenario to maximize
their talents, and the first name off the list was
your guy, Jamie Daniels.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I'm a little surprised by this.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
He thinks he's gonna blossom under Cliff Kingsbury and Washington.
Brooks points to Kyler Murray's rookie year and said Daniels
can blow those numbers out of the water.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Here are Kyler's numbers when he was Rookie of the
Year in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Get thirty seven hundred passing yards, twenty touchdowns, twelve picks. Well,
also four hundred sorry five rushing yards and four rushing touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
So I was told a month before the draft, may
have been three weeks that Kingsbury had huge imprint on
this decision. And people have said, well, he won't be
there forever. But the truth is, and we've talked about
this before, if Jaden Daniels only played for four years
and was good for three of them, it would get
Washington out of this mess. This just circling the drain
(18:29):
for fifteen years. So I do think he's a perfect
match with a really good play caller. They don't have
a good old line. So when you don't have a
good old line, like when Russell Wilson got to the Seahawks,
and you can buy time for two or three years
as they rebuild it, and you can as you figure
out the pocket. So I tend to think. I also
think that division. I think Dallas and the New York Giants.
(18:50):
I have doubts about both. So I think there's a
chance to be a wildcard team.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
I'm looking at the pro football focused lineup breakdown there.
Left tackle is somebody I'm not familiar with, Cornelius Lucas.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Not great for a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
They do have scary Terry McLaurin at John Dotson on
the outside, Zach Ertz at tight end, Austin Eckler's the new.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Running back there. But I don't know. I was bullish
on this team, Colin. I think I'm pulling back a
little front.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I know you were last year.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Coming into this offseason, I.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Was, yeah. I mean it's like Sam Howe, who's now
I think a Seahawk. Sam Howe was really interesting player,
but he didn't always play under control, and I think
this offense will have more athletic ability, a little more
under control, more production. Austin Eckler is a great fit
for a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I mean two years ago it would have been great.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
I don't he had a rough final year there and
with the Chargers starting to show his age.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah yeah. You notice how many great players had a
rough year with the Chargers. Maybe it was a coach.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
It's possibly the coach. The defense for Washington also does
not look great. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The Giants are in the cellar in.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
That division for sure, right they stink Washington six seven,
eight wins.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Oh no, I think it's more than that. I'll go,
I'll go eight, nine, ten, I'll neither.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I can't wait to fight the Vegas number that. It's
not me or ten, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Next up is the Chicago Bears. They seem the team
most likely to be featured on Hard Knocks this season
after getting Kayleb Williams first. Overall, here's what GM Ryan
Poles had to say about potentially being the next subject
for the docum series.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
In terms of being in favor for you know, there's
some distractions that come along with it, but it's one
of those things. That's the way you learn in this league.
He's just adjusting the depth of rubber shows up.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So this here we'll roll.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
It's not keeping moving to the program. I mean I
watched bull swaying, I watch f one stuff. I think
it's cool to see behind the scenes. But when it's
your own it hit feels a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I don't like it.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, you you you are journey quarterback coach on the
hot scene and you're gonna be on Hard Knocks.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
They gotta get like the basics down.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
In Chicago call. But you're gonna watch it. I mean
usually Hard Knocks is a bad team and not a
lot of personality. I haven't watched the last couple of
I mean i've like spot watched it like occasionally. I
think i'd watch this one. I'll watch every episode of
this well because they got killer will Well, big city,
big personality coach in the hot seat, weird.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Franchise Iberfluce once is in his locker room in August.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I don't think any of these guys do. But I
think the league has, you know, the league has like
every year there's a bunch of regulations where you can't
duck it, and the Bears. They can't duck it. Nothing
you can do. I don't love it. I don't think
it's great for teams. But I also don't always think
playing overseas is great. But I understand on a macro
(21:36):
level what the league's doing. It's business. You don't get
everything you want.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I do like the Bears team this year. I think
you do as well A lot I like.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I wish the division was easier, but I like the team.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well somebody from that division, somebody besides me.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
If you put the Bears in the NFC South, they'd
win twelve games. I really feel that. In THEIRS, I
think they'll battle for nine to ten and then they'll
be in that Minnesota you're battling last weekend for a
wild cart. Now a lot of this.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
He's got to be a big Bears guy. Now that
they've got Caleb, and you know, you love the city
of Chicago.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I love Chicago for many years, and I've been critical
of the Bears. It's not a it's not just a
Caleb thing. It's like they got really good player thing.
They still have the same ownership group, which I don't love.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
So like watchability, Bears are top five, like most absolutely,
if you.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
If you include that's a good question. If you include
drama expectations, absolutely top five. So, like, off the top
of your head right now, if I said the team,
I want to watch the Chargers with Harbaugh. Yes, I
want to watch the Bears with Caleb.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Aaron Rodgers and Robert Salah and that dumpster fire that
is my Jets.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
You don't not really, I'll be honest with you. I
like Williams. I want to watch the Commanders with Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Oh, stop it real over the Jets.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that Jets I want to watch.
I want to watch Aaron's opener because he's really never
had a drive.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I thought you'd say you always liked and watch tire fires.
That's what they are.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
No, I think they'll be if Aaron plays. I think
they'll be viable. I think they'll be a really good,
viable team battling for nine wins. I don't think they're
a super Bowl team, but I think if Aaron plays
every game, they'll be. There'll be a good football team.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
So you put Washington top five watches for interesting and.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well, okay, let me start again. I would say Chicago
and the Chargers are Oh, let's do it three. Let's
do a third.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Pittsburgh Steelers with Tomlin all the way out good.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I just want to watch the Russell Wilson experiment. That's
a good one.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Well, Russell Wilson justin Field's experiment. Let's let's get that straight.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
We'll heavy returning kicks, that's what they say.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
There are some fascinating like the Chiefs are down in
the list because everybody's sick.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Of the ball.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
We know they're going to be good.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I like to tweak Chiefs fans of this.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
There's a lot of Is that a bad three? Chicago
Harball Chargers and the Russell Wilson experiment. That's pretty interesting.
Jets ahead of By the way, if you go back
and I don't grade like just drafts, if you go
back and look at Pittsburgh's draft, they got like three.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
But you're bearing the lead. Tomlin could this could be
his final year in.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Pittsburgh, could be.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I think that's bigger than Russell Wilson, who's just jumping around.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
But I've seen Tomlin Pittsburgh for years. Russell Wilson in
a Steeler jersey is gonna be Oh, that's mussy. Television
that's gonna be musty TA. Now by week five it
may not be must anything, but early on it's interest.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I don't think Russ has been must CTV in a
few years.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Sorry, buddy, I know we look like each other, so
I'm supposed to be nice to him anyways. Final story,
The Stallions remain undefeated over the weekend, with a big
win against the Showboats to prove to six and oh,
clinching a conference championship. Berth Adrian Martinez remember him, former
Nebraska star. Ye, well, he's tearing up the league through
for three hundred and sixty eight yards and four touchdowns,
(24:40):
the most passing yards in a game this season, and
the first four TV passing game of the year.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Listen, they used to call him Amark.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
If you remember, he's second in the UFL in rushing yards,
fourth and passing yards. Probably gonna be on an NFL
roster come August, right, I mean at some point some
of these guys are gonna have picked.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Up we know, quarterbacks this weekend.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Those guys dropping bombs from.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Like sixteen sixty five yard got Yeah, I'll say it again.
There's NFL guys. When you watch this wide receiver kickers. Uh,
quarterbacks look like backups. But there's some dudes that's fine.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I mean you saw the Giants.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Who was that guy they'd trotted out the uh horrible
quarterback of the backup, the Jersey guy.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well it wasn't horrible.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Oh come on, Martinez is better than this.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Divito, Tommy DeVito.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, what you know, Adrian Martinez is.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Wait. I thought Tommy DeVito at the end was pretty fun.
Get out of town. Ryan weigh in on this. I thought,
Tommy Deviata moved the chains. Now some of that stay ball.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
I thought, even at the fourth quarter down thirty of
one of the games, come on, not an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I thought that the first when I first games. Yeah,
I mean I was like, this doesn't It's just he
hadn't looked big enough. And but at the end I
was like, I thought he looked okay.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Once he gets cut by the Giants.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
If the Jets are looking for a thirst ringer, give
me Adrian Martinez all day.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
He can make things happen.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
I don't know if Jordan Travis is gonna be ready,
but Adrian Martinez is. I will almost. I don't want
to make a wager with you. It's not Wager Wednesday yet.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
But we came up with a new segment.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
All because of me last week.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right, Yeah, we did gambling segment.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Then you didn't like it, Jason delivering again, Boom Shoulders,
you're solitarying this?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Then j Mack with the news.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So the we were talking about this the as you
watch the Roast, the Brady Roast, your take is, when
you go to a twenty year dynasty like a basketball
it's usually pretty easy because dynasties don't last that long.
I mean, Russell was obviously Rod Aarbach and Russell, you know,
with the Celtics, or Shaq and Kobe Phil But when
(26:47):
in football it's more collaborative. You can have people inside
a dynasty that don't get nearly the credit because they're
an offensive line coach, you know, but they're incredibly valuable.
So that's what's interesting about the Patriots. Very few people
Brady Belichick, Ernie Adams, you know, a lot of guys
stayed for almost the entirety of it. But as it
(27:08):
aged and certain people moved out of it. It wasn't
just Brady that where you saw like erosion of the franchise.
So we're gonna we're gonna give you very top to
the bottom. My opinion on what I watched for ten years.
I mean I watched all of it, but was up
close and personal in Connecticut for ten years the Power
Pyramid for the Patriots, and that is coming up next.
(27:30):
When your business reaches a certain scale, challenges begin to surface,
you deserve a tailored solution, and that is netsweet right
now get their popular KPI checklist absolutely free. Go to
netsuitet dot com slash Herd h E r D.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (27:58):
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. Post is called All Ball. We
usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more
about the stories about what made these people love their
sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We
talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell you stories.
You download it, you listen to it.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think you like it.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio
app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
On FS one, catch an Al Central showdown as the
Tigers take on Jo's Avramirez and the Guardians all again.
That's sixth Eastern on FS one.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
All right, So we were thinking about if you the
roast last night for the Patriots, Gronk Edelman, Brady Belichick,
Drew Bledsoe, Kevin Hart, a lot of big stars out there,
and it was very, very funny, and so can I.
I think I can go watch it again, right, and
go to my little neck Flips app and watch it
again probably well, So I thought, okay, if you look
(29:02):
who gets credit, because that's generally what breaks up dynasties.
It breaks up almost all NBA dynasties, ego validation, who
gets credit, But you're not going to have a twenty
year empire. I don't care if it's IBM or it's
the Patriots. People want to take credit, somebody wants to
write the book, and that's why you have so many
good documentaries and people get their feelings hurt. But if
(29:22):
you had a Patriot pyramid in terms of importance, I
think the top is real easy. Tom's the best player
at the most important position ever Brady. You know five
Super Bowl MVPs has He has seven Super Bowls. That's
more than any franchise. And then just going to Tampa,
I think validated is greatness. Kind of an odd franchise
(29:45):
in Tampa that always has talent, can never get the
quarterback right. I think the second level is, obviously you
start with Belichick, who, for all of his rigidity late
in his career, was the de facto GM and coach
for most of it. No football coach in the history
of the sport has six Super Bowls. He is largely
viewed as defensively the best coach without peer in the sport.
(30:09):
I would not disagree with that. I didn't like Bill
the GM late in his career, but you know, nobody
can doubt his acumen, his understanding of defense. And you know, listen,
he ran a tite ship, which is hard to do
in pro sports. Robert Kraft's on that same level. And
if you think I'm out of my mind, go look
at how many bad owners there are in the NFL.
(30:31):
You can count the great owners on one hand. There's
a dozen bad ownership groups in the NFL. He didn't meddle.
You may not like how he portrayed Belichick in the
Apple TV DC. He didn't meddle. These guys all medal,
it's all ego. It's the most powerful league in the world,
along with the English Premier League, and so Craft stayed
(30:51):
out of it. And the one time, the one time
he said I'm gonna medal with Garoppolo, he was right.
Brady still had Super Bowls at him, and Pelow never
became as great as Belichick probably thought he was going
to be. Now it gets interesting the third row. I
think you have to put Gronk on it. He stood
for the Patriots way, a fun guy who sacrificed some personality,
(31:14):
a big game receiver, and the Patriots were the ultimate
big game franchise. To beat him, you had to be perfect.
Four time champ, five Pro Bowls. He would block, he
sacrificed some personality, he sacrificed his body. Only Jerry Rice
has more receiving yards and receiving touchdowns in Super Bowl history.
I would put Teddy Bruski right in the middle of this.
(31:36):
Bruski in the first run was the soul of the franchise.
It wasn't Brady, it wasn't He got three rings out
of it. There was a reason. If you watched the documentary,
he came across as so smart and so well liked.
He played in thirteen years all with the Patriots, nine
playoff appearances. He was a defensive captain for seven years.
(31:58):
He was the sole of the early dynasty. It all
centered around sort of a do it all linebracker with
a really high IQ. Then I think you have to
let's be let's be honest here. Ernie Adams was sort
of the most trusted person in the building. He was
sort of the guru. Nobody talked about him outside of Foxborough.
(32:19):
He was the director of football research. All you need
to know is when Bill Belichick, he would Bill Belichick
would listen to Ernie Adams more than any single person
in the building. He was kind of a man of mystery.
He held several positions behind great empirical leaders. There's always
somebody behind the curtain. And he kind of built the
(32:41):
scouting department. And if you a very very likable, relatable,
funny guy. If you watch the documentary, but I think
Ernie Adams deserves a ton of credit. Bill Belichick trusted
him more than anybody in the organization. Now, the final
the Foundation Final four Edelman listen, he was Wes Welcome
(33:02):
and Randy Moss didn't win super Bowls. He was the
most important wide receiver to Brady. Great third down, great playoff.
In fact, I think you can make an argument he's
a Hall of Famer based on playoff performance. That's how
Eli Manning's getting into the Super Bowl. Third all time
playoff catches in receiving yards has I believe the greatest
single catch in the history of the Super Bowl. It's
(33:23):
not Lyn Swan, it's not David Tyree. It's that catch
against Atlanta, which even in slow motion it is a catch,
but you're not sure until the very end. To me,
it's the greatest catch in the history of the Super Bowl.
Next to him Dante's Garneckia. One of the things that
was always true about this franchise, Brady was always safe.
(33:44):
He rarely got hit. They never had a bad offensive line.
They never had one bad offensive line. They had secondaries
that weren't great, they had receiving cors that weren't dynamic.
They had some running back by committee teams. Sometimes they
were a bit creaky at wide receiver. They had no
bad offensive lines. He is, in my opinion, there's an
argument that he is. I mean, Bob Kraft called him
(34:06):
like the greatest, one of the greatest of all time.
Maybe it had been the best, probably was the best assistant
they ever had never wanted to be. He retired, came
back Dante's Garnekia. They never had a bad offensive front ever,
and they were always better in big games. You're gonna
roll your eyes at this one. Alex Guerrero. Tom Brady
(34:28):
pivoted about three quarters through his career away from the
Patriot Way, became more independent. And all you need to
know is that Brady was on the forefront of pliability, health, nutrition,
and wellness in the league. Well, that's because of Guerrero
and others followed suit. If you think Brady aged better
(34:50):
than any player in the history of the sport, and
he did, it's not on cliff bars and sit ups.
It was on Alex Guerrero. That's why they won their
last couple of Super Bowls, and why Tom won a
Super Bowl in Tampa. It was his guru with his health.
And then finally, I think you have to put in
Adam vinet Terry. I always laugh when people say you
can't draft a kicker. Are you out of your mind.
(35:11):
They're often leading scores. He's the NFL's all time leading scorer.
You can't draft kickers, most field goals in NFL history.
And again, like Brady, like Gronk, like Edelman, was often
at his best in the biggest moments. And so to me,
the power pyramid. Now now Jmack rolled his eyes at
Alex Guerrero. Now you may stay to yourself. Brady Gronk,
(35:35):
Bruce Ki, Guerrero, Edelman, a Veniti. You only have five players.
But if you look at any corpore, if you look
at Fox, is it just people on camera? I mean,
there's got to be a director of sales, a director
of production. There's got to be the marketing people. I
think a big part of why this lasted was brilliance
behind the scenes. A non medaling owner, a brilliant coach,
(35:57):
the best offensive line coach ever. The star had his
nutrition pliability expert Tom. He never got hurt. He had
one season, he was never hurt. J Mack. Your reaction to.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
It, Okay, first of all, I like this. I'm not
a huge pyramid guy, but I like this. A couple
that jumped out I called up. You know, some Patriots
numbers here. So ty Law very good, one of the
great cornerbacks of all time, drafted by the Patriots. Three
Super Bowl rings, Yes, and he doesn't make the pyramid.
(36:29):
I mean it is two decades.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
But I'm not denying that. But how do I keep
off the leading score in league history? Who literally won game?
Didn't they take vinture venitary has to make the team,
has to make the lad.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
I don't even know how.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
If Guerrera was a factor for the first ten years,
we know late in his career he was important to.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Remember, Tom did not lead the dynasty early Tom led
the second dynasty, which.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Was the MVPs in the Super Bowl. He wasn't the leader.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
No, I mean early on it was Bruskie, ty Law
more a game manager.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Brady was a game manager.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
But the second one. As we've noted before, Tom Brady's
second dynasty is better than ninety percent of careers. So
when I think of Tom Brady, do I think of
completed passes? You know? What I think about Super Bowls
and length of career Guerrero is. That's the reason why.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Okay, another one, and there is a two parter. What's
the most memorable team from Brady's run. This is an
easy one. Go ahead, the most memorable individual team and
during that run.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
The record setting Moss team that couldn't win.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Right, So has Randy mosson on this pyramid?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I never felt I thought he was. I'll give you
an example. You go to college with a bunch of
guys and there's always fun guy, drinks too much. You'd
never ask him for a ride of the airport. You
could never trust him. He is a fun guy, and
you guys talk about him all the time when you
get together for the reunion. But he wasn't like somebody
you could trust. It wasn't like somebody that was there
(37:57):
a long time. He was fun guy. Randy made the Patriots,
which they rarely were fun. I mean he was over
the top, but that didn't win. This franchise was ohay,
was about efficiency details, It wasn't about home run, over
the top. Randy was the fun guy at the party,
(38:20):
but they never relied on Randy. Again, you could argue
the most talented guy, but I never felt like he'd
be an easy one. Right, Okay, But I do think
some and I've said this before, I think the star
receivers overrated. I think receivers aren't find me all the
great all time receivers. Randy Moss has no Super bowls,
(38:43):
Calvin Johnson has no Super Bowls. Larry Fitzgerald has one.
I think sometimes we glamorize Larry has.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
How many Julio Jones, Oh he went to when he.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Never won one? So arguably the three best received Jerry
Rice did, but again it was Walsh Montana Rice would
be second or third. So I think sometimes we look
at the star receiver and we go, oh my gosh,
look at some of the most talented receivers of all time.
They don't even get to Super Bowls. But the most
talented quarterbacks do, the most talented coaches do, the most
talented gms do, the most talented O lines do, the
(39:13):
most talented pass rushers do, the most talented receivers don't.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Okay, and final one the only pushback.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I never won a Super Bowl. Fitzgerald nemb won one,
Moss number one one, Calvin Johnson number one one. I
mean so, I mean my thing is they sell tickets.
They're fun, they can be important, but it's hard to
look not win super Bowls when you have a Mahomes
Reid Brady Belichick. That's what the whole sport starts.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So and the other one.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
First of all, I'm not advocating Edelman off. I was
just saying Guerrero off. The only pushback I would say
on Teddy Bruski was Ty Law or Vince Wilfork. When
I think of the most impactful defensive player, who it
was either Law or Wilfork.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
It was not Bruskie. But that's just me.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Who was the captain? Who did you rely on for
defensive signals you rely on? I mean, that's that's where
Teddy brusk when you go to the documentary, and I
talked to Teddy a lot about this on and off
the air. When I was at the other place, Teddy
again to me the word I keep using, kind of
the brains and the soul behind the defense. You don't always.
Edelman's not as talented as Randy Moss, but he was
(40:17):
more reliable. I mean there was the punt returns, there
was receiving their third down, and he was I mean,
Edelman was better in the biggest moments. So I'm not
saying I'm right, that's just how I've how you would fundamentally,
I look for people like like We've always said that's
about the Warriors. The soul of it is Stephen Draymond.
Kevin Durant is like the Randy Moss. He stopped by
(40:39):
for a while and was great.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Oh wait, he Durant was the MVV of the finals twice.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, but they won before him and after him they did.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
But when he was on the team, he was the
best player.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
And so was Randy.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
But they didn't win though.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
When Randy left and when k D left, howd it
work out?
Speaker 4 (40:55):
They won?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, you can rent talent, but you need to found
for a house. It's nice to have, you know, really
nice piece of furniture here, it's really nice something parked
in the garage. They won before Katie and after, and
how did Katie do before and after the Warriors? So
to me, I'll always look at the Warriors as even
Steve Kerr they were winning games with Mark. I always
(41:17):
look at Steph Draymond, Kerr and KD and has probably
maybe the most talented Randy Moss is probably the most
talented player they've ever had. I think it's totally fair.
Speaker 5 (41:26):
I think it before and after we'll eventually talk about it.
But all these coaches that Lebron has run off. You
know how many titles that the guys have won without them,
You know how many they have none.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
It's a good point.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh there we go, it's hour two. We're live in LA.
It's The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
I love to see and Drew bletso stop buying a
golf course. That's one of my favorite gets in a
while for us. He did not have to do that.
He's getting hydrated today. He was out late at the
comedy store after the roast last night. So that was
(00:48):
good stuff. And I appreciate that Eric Mangini, who watched
all of it, was talking to me during the break.
It really was first of all, the joke riding. We
are so lucky we live in a country with so
many talented people. Because Mickey Glazer, Jeffrey Ross, the other guy,
(01:08):
I forget Nick what sorry about that. I apologize, but
the quality of joke riding is so good. There's so
many funny people out there. And I watched that and
I was like, you know, we are surrounded. We're lucky
here in Los Angeles. We got artists and creators and
joke riders everywhere, and it was laugh out loud funny.
So we do it every Monday at this time. Where
(01:28):
Colin was right, where Colin was wrong, lots of that.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Here we go where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You know, I've always said about Joel Embi, you keep
telling me it's a superstar, and he can't get past
the second round of the Eastern Conference playoffs. I thought
this year in the playoffs, he too often played small,
he was inconsistent, he was a stats monster. He shrunk
in the fourth quarter. Listen, this NIXT team is not
real talented. Josh Hart's your second leading scorer, was a
(01:55):
prime example of the table was set for him. MAXI
is now an emerging star. It's here for the taking.
And once again Joe well mb disappointed where Colin was raw.
I like Darvin Ham, I don't love him. I was
surprised he was fired a week ago. He got a
vote of support from somebody who leaked it to the
(02:16):
athletic and now they fired him. That means Lebron wanted
him out. I thought Genie Buss would support him. There's
been a lot of talk in recent years about Genie
wanting to control the franchise and not having Lebron control it.
So it does surprise me that they let him go.
He was more than competent. I didn't know his love
his rotations. But again, there's three or four coaches in
the league, and even those guys get whacked by their fans.
(02:40):
I was surprised they fired him. Where Colin was right,
Kawhi played only two games, the Clippers lost both. I
don't really understand re signing him to that massive extension
three years, one hundred and fifty million. What do I
do I get leadership? Do I get reliability? Do I
get consistent production? What do I get for them? I
mean go to the last like twenty games of the playoffs,
(03:02):
He's played like five. Maybe I just don't know why
the league and the Clippers feel like they needed I
don't know what I'm getting. I don't get a verbal leader,
I don't get a great basketball role model get I
get chaos and unpredictability.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And no reliability, where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
On my five bold NBA predictions, I had the next
losing in the first round of the Sixers, but it
was pretty obvious by halftime of Game two New York
was gonna win this series. I mean, listen, Josh Hart's
not a score and he ended up being their second
leading scorer in the Sixers series. I mean they had
six guys averaging double figures. It's a very UNNBA like
(03:45):
playoff winning team. One star and not much help. I
didn't even know if if Kyrie and Luca could win
a series. The fact that Jalen Brunson it speaks to
a little bit how overrated the Sixers are, how weak
the East is, and also also how great Jalen Brunson is.
Where Colin was right. Innocent people don't get stressed out.
(04:08):
I've said with shoe Hey O'tani from the beginning, I
think he's innocent. Well, he leads baseball in several categories. Yesterday,
four hits, homer twice, Dodger swept the Braves. Otani is
playing like an innocent man. This is the team we expected.
The gambling scandal, I think it matters to people in
the gambling industry. Who do that stuff? You know, there's
(04:28):
a big stories in Vegas. But I think think the
average baseball fan is a casual fan. They don't watch
one hundred and sixty two games a year, and I
think they're over it. And I think Otani's playing like
an innocent man.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Where Colin was right, Caitlyn Clark.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Listen, nothing against women's basketball, but this is a Caitlyn
Clark story, what she's done to women's basketball. An exhibition
road game, sold out. I also think her game will
translate to the WNBA and she'll be a dominant player.
She had twenty one points. Listen, she just gets open looks.
In the NBA, lots of guys need screens, they need passing,
(05:03):
they need help. She doesn't. She gets her own shot.
It's almost always a good shot. And it was a
sold out WNBA exhibition road game. That is iconic.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I didn't trust the Mavericks late in the year when
they got hot. I told j Mack, I said, you know,
late NBA season winning streaks when you're playing a bunch
of tanking teams don't mean anything. But did anybody else
surprise how good their defense. Was the Clippers average one
hundred a game with Westbrook and Hardin and Paul George
in a couple of games of Kawhi, they're playing unbelievable defense,
(05:40):
and you know Kyrie. It's not that people didn't like Kyrie,
it's just you know, know exactly what you're getting. But
he put on an absolute clinic against the Clippers. Where
Colin was right, told you the Lakers should have avoided Denver.
I said, when they get beat badly by Denver, Darvin
Ham's in trouble, Lebron will be passive, aggressive and swim
(06:00):
back to chaos. And that's exactly what's happened. The Lakers
are now looking for their eighth coach in fourteen years.
If that was an NFL franchise, we would call that
a circus eighth coach in fourteen years.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
We told you where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Listen, I thought Justin Fields had a chance, but every
time I watched them, it diminished. There were rumors last
week that he may be used as a kick returner.
They have been squashed, but the fact that they became
rumors tells you all you need to know. Listen, if
you're honest about it, you look for data points, fourth
quarter passer rating, completion percentage, playing from behind. There's no
(06:44):
data point that leads you to believe you could build
your franchise around it. Now he's talented, I think somebody
else will give him another shot to be the guy.
Probably a two year deal, not a five year deal
for huge money. But the fact that that was a
rumor tells you, and that he went for a six
round pick tells you. People looked at the data and
(07:05):
don't seem as a franchise guy. Where Colin was right,
where Colin was wrong on a Monday. And from that
we go to Eric Mangini joining us live. So you
watch the entire three and a half hours. You know,
the Patriots were always known as so covert and and
you know, and you watch that, what did you make
(07:26):
of it?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
It was the most unpatriot thing I've ever seen in
my life or could have ever imagined. I can't wait
to watch it again. It was. It was like belly
laugh after belly laugh, and so many things that were
talked about last night. Some were things that anybody could
get and some were things where after being there and
(07:50):
understanding the culture and experiencing it, it was just that much,
that much funnier.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
You know, I thought one of the winners last night
was Belichick. So regardless of my opinion, when Tom left
New England, he got fun, relatable, a little silly, and
when when when Bill aged, he got a little combative
and dismissive. And that's just not my opinion. The league
saw that he didn't get any interviews except Atlanta. So
(08:18):
I thought last night Bill lightening up. I thought going
Manning cast the roast like it's almost as if Bill
understands how he's viewed. Now Is that fair?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I don't think he got combative, combative and dismiss it.
I mean, he had been that way since since Cleveland.
He never The feeling on the media with Bill was always, look,
if you win, they can't touch you, and if you lose,
they can't help you. So why do I need to
do anything with the media. But he did have another side,
and he won in a lot of ways, in the
(08:52):
sense that I thought he had good material and whoever
wrote that stuff for him what did a nice job,
and he delivered it well. Now I don't think he
necessarily loved the toast with Robert Kraft, and I know
Chris Rock thought he was he was bringing two nations together.
But that's a lot easier toast to make if you're
the guy that fired someone as opposed to the guy
(09:12):
that got fired. They probably didn't love that. The the
onslaught of, you know, looking for a job or needed
job references, and just the players being able to take
shots at him. That they took shots at him in
the locker room. That happens with every locker room where
the guys are joking about the head coach, but for
(09:33):
them to be able to do it publicly and then
in a lot of ways hilariously. I thought, you know,
it was great, Drew.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I like Drew Bledsoe. I thought was really funny. I mean,
when you can joke about Tom's marriage former marriage, what
did you make I mean, you were there for the
bread Bledsoe who'd signed one hundred million dollar contract, and
that was always the documentary showed that, how tense that was.
What did you make of him last night?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I loved Drew Bloodsoe. I loved Drew Bloodsoe off the top.
And that gives you such a great indication of of
what Tom was dealing with. So he saw how smooth
Drew was, he's funny, he's poised, six ' five, good
looking guy. He had one hundred million dollar contract, he
had taken the team to the super Bowl. He was
the number one overall draft pick. And and and you
(10:21):
got a sense of his presence last night, you know,
in a situation that had to be very difficult for him,
and he had that kind of presence. So then Tom
comes into the organization. He's a six round draft picks.
He's a little bit nerdy. And the yellow jeep story
that that Drew told last night is one hundred percent true.
Tom did drive that yellow jeep. And and it's just
(10:43):
Tom was not Tom when he got there. And Tom
was nowhere near the guy we saw last night when
he got there, and and Drew was that that presence,
and and uh, it's it's amazing, you know when you
when you look back and think of the difficult the
person that Bill did make at that point to continue
on with Tom when you had an option to go
(11:05):
back to Drew, you know, as he got healthy.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know, I told Sean Payton when he was here,
I said this last hour Eric that I said, Sean,
you've got too many things in your head. You got
stories to tell. This is fun for you, but you're
going to go back to coach. Parcells did it, went
back and Belichick. You know, I do think Bill just
the way you know, he ruminates about the sport and
thinks about it. I think he's proving that he could
(11:28):
do media. But I don't think I've ever thought, oh,
this is what Bill wants to do. Parcells dabbled in
it but kind of tired of the nonsense of it.
I think Belichick does get another shot to coach. I
think he's going to be great doing all the stuff
here off air for a year. But like Peyton, I
know his age, but Bill was old when he was forty.
I just don't. I mean, he just he was never
(11:50):
young to me. So I mean I think he's going
to coach again, do you.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah. Bill's been the same guy forever as long as
I've known to know him, back in what like nineteen
ninety four. So, and that's the mark of his success too,
is his consistency and his consistent approach that they have
another side. Yeah, and people are getting to see some
of that now when he goes back to coach, it's
(12:16):
not going to be like he was last night, you know,
like Chuckles, the clown doing stand up, you know at
the laugh Factory, like he was. That's not who he's
going to be when he goes back to an organization.
He's going to be the guy that he always was.
So as long as you're willing to accept the way
that he's going to coach and the strengths that that
(12:37):
brings and and to some degree the weaknesses that that brings,
then he said, absolutely, get a second shot, I mean,
or a third shot. There's there's not many people that
you're going to be able to bring in with the
wealth of information, the volume of success and bringing a
young coach with him that he can then he can
(12:58):
then tutor to take over once he decides leave. So
have a succession plan in place, and then organizationally, you
could be in a great spot.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I got to ask you one NFL question. The draft
is now officially over. Obviously, if you hit on three
or four draft picks, they can make a team better.
There's no question about that. It is interesting, I said,
if you I can't guess how your fifth, sixth, seventh
round guys are going to be, but if I take
your free agents and your top two to three picks.
I do have a pretty good sense with your coaching
(13:28):
staff if you improved. I think Chicago J McK and
I have talked about this. I think they have a
shot to make the playoffs. And that may sound crazy
with a rookie head, you know, a defensive coach. It's
Chicago and a rookie quarterback, but Man Keenan Allen, DeAndre Swift,
Roma Dunzee, Caleb Williams, I just feel like a different
offense to me. Is it what's realistic to you?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I thought Chicago should have made playoffs last year. I
thought that the progress of Justin Fields had made and
we didn't know whether not that jump would continue. But
the amount of pieces that they had put in place
last year through free agency and through the draft was significant.
And this year they're they're even they're even in a
better spot. So let's assume that Caleb comes in and
(14:14):
and I know we're talking about Mattie ever Refluss is
a defensive head coach. But Matt took over the defense
late in the year, and when Matt took over, the
defense improved significantly when he took over his defensive coordinator,
So I think that should continue. To trend along those ways.
And it's it says volume of weapons. And if Caleb
can come in and and and make the wild plays
(14:36):
that we've seen him make throughout college without trying to
press too much. And and that's that's my biggest worry
column is the the you know, I want to be immortal.
I want to chase all the greats, you know, the
the amount of bravado and expectations that he's putting on himself,
and to some degree the organization is as well. That
can get a guy into pressing to make plays. And
(14:58):
and I don't think he's going to have to do
that with the team they have, and if he doesn't, yeah,
they could be really really good this year.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, Eric Manginie, great thoughts on the roast, as always,
my friend, I know you were laughing because you lived
in that world.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Oh my god, it was I am going to go
back and watch again. There is such a such a
good good night, all.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Right, good seeing your coach.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Take care come.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, he was there at the very beginning. He was
there with Drew Bledsoe and that documentary even if you
think it, you know, took shots at Bill. Somebody always
feels slided. Scotty Pippen felt slided in the MJ documentary,
but I didn't think it was unrealistic or or you know.
I mean, Michael Jordan said, I don't win any of
this stuff without Scotty. I mean, it was acknowledge he
(15:44):
was great. We all knew Scotty was great, but it
was going to be from Michael's perspective, that documentary happens.
It's not nearly as interesting if you don't have a
documentary on us. Michael talks, and he's only talking if
you're taking his side. And so I think the documentary
was more of the Craft family and the Brady side
than the Belichicks. So I'm okay with it. But we
still know Scottie Pippens's the best Robin ever, and we
(16:04):
still know Belichick right now is considered the best coach ever.
It didn't dig him that much. It just took some shots.
They took liberties or they took the angles that favored
the Craft side. It doesn't make it it inaccurate. That's
my take. We all know Bill's great. My big takeaway
on that Apple TV documentary was God, Bill was a
lot more fun early on, like he was funny, and
(16:27):
then you know, Boston media wears you down. It wears
down a lot of people. One more heard. The Herd
streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week
within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or
on demand whenever you like. By the way, we'll have
the Patriots Power Pyramid. A lot of alliteration there coming up.
(16:48):
If you go top down, where do you rank the
importance of the longest by a mile? NFL dynasty, pro
sports dynasty. You saw him at you know, Yukon women's basketball,
see serena a great individual sport. You just don't get
twenty year dynasties, which it was a dynasty at the beginning,
a dynasty at the end, and fantastic. Maybe the most
(17:10):
entertaining teams were in the middle with Randy Moss.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Is Craft gonna be included in that because he's everybody counts.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I would use a deflate gate ball boy if it mattered.
I do not think it does. I'll include everybody, and
I'll give my reasoning behind everybody. Jmack with the news.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Turn on the news. This is the Herd Line news.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Let's do some football here after the draft Bucky Brooks
put out his list of his eight perfect fits, breaking
down which player landed in the best scenario to maximize
their talents, and the first name off the list was
your guy, Jamie Daniels.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I'm a little surprised by this.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
He thinks he's gonna blossom under Cliff Kingsbury and Washington.
Brooks points to Kyler Murray's rookie year and said Daniels
can blow those numbers out of the water.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Here are Kyler's numbers when he was Rookie of the
Year in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Get thirty seven hundred passing yards, twenty touchdowns, twelve picks. Well,
also four hundred sorry five rushing yards and four rushing touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
So I was told a month before the draft, may
have been three weeks that Kingsbury had huge imprint on
this decision. And people have said, well, he won't be
there forever. But the truth is, and we've talked about
this before, if Jaden Daniels only played for four years
and was good for three of them, it would get
Washington out of this mess. This just circling the drain
(18:29):
for fifteen years. So I do think he's a perfect
match with a really good play caller. They don't have
a good old line. So when you don't have a
good old line, like when Russell Wilson got to the Seahawks,
and you can buy time for two or three years
as they rebuild it, and you can as you figure
out the pocket. So I tend to think. I also
think that division. I think Dallas and the New York Giants.
(18:50):
I have doubts about both. So I think there's a
chance to be a wildcard team.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
I'm looking at the pro football focused lineup breakdown there.
Left tackle is somebody I'm not familiar with, Cornelius Lucas.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Not great for a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
They do have scary Terry McLaurin at John Dotson on
the outside, Zach Ertz at tight end, Austin Eckler's the new.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Running back there. But I don't know. I was bullish
on this team, Colin. I think I'm pulling back a
little front.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I know you were last year.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Coming into this offseason, I.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Was, yeah. I mean it's like Sam Howe, who's now
I think a Seahawk. Sam Howe was really interesting player,
but he didn't always play under control, and I think
this offense will have more athletic ability, a little more
under control, more production. Austin Eckler is a great fit
for a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I mean two years ago it would have been great.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
I don't he had a rough final year there and
with the Chargers starting to show his age.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah yeah. You notice how many great players had a
rough year with the Chargers. Maybe it was a coach.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
It's possibly the coach. The defense for Washington also does
not look great. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The Giants are in the cellar in.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
That division for sure, right they stink Washington six seven,
eight wins.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Oh no, I think it's more than that. I'll go,
I'll go eight, nine, ten, I'll neither.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I can't wait to fight the Vegas number that. It's
not me or ten, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Next up is the Chicago Bears. They seem the team
most likely to be featured on Hard Knocks this season
after getting Kayleb Williams first. Overall, here's what GM Ryan
Poles had to say about potentially being the next subject
for the docum series.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
In terms of being in favor for you know, there's
some distractions that come along with it, but it's one
of those things. That's the way you learn in this league.
He's just adjusting the depth of rubber shows up.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So this here we'll roll.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
It's not keeping moving to the program. I mean I
watched bull swaying, I watch f one stuff. I think
it's cool to see behind the scenes. But when it's
your own it hit feels a little bit different.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I don't like it.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, you you you are journey quarterback coach on the
hot scene and you're gonna be on Hard Knocks.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
They gotta get like the basics down.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
In Chicago call. But you're gonna watch it. I mean
usually Hard Knocks is a bad team and not a
lot of personality. I haven't watched the last couple of
I mean i've like spot watched it like occasionally. I
think i'd watch this one. I'll watch every episode of
this well because they got killer will Well, big city,
big personality coach in the hot seat, weird.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Franchise Iberfluce once is in his locker room in August.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I don't think any of these guys do. But I
think the league has, you know, the league has like
every year there's a bunch of regulations where you can't
duck it, and the Bears. They can't duck it. Nothing
you can do. I don't love it. I don't think
it's great for teams. But I also don't always think
playing overseas is great. But I understand on a macro
(21:36):
level what the league's doing. It's business. You don't get
everything you want.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I do like the Bears team this year. I think
you do as well A lot I like.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I wish the division was easier, but I like the team.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well somebody from that division, somebody besides me.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
If you put the Bears in the NFC South, they'd
win twelve games. I really feel that. In THEIRS, I
think they'll battle for nine to ten and then they'll
be in that Minnesota you're battling last weekend for a
wild cart. Now a lot of this.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
He's got to be a big Bears guy. Now that
they've got Caleb, and you know, you love the city
of Chicago.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I love Chicago for many years, and I've been critical
of the Bears. It's not a it's not just a
Caleb thing. It's like they got really good player thing.
They still have the same ownership group, which I don't love.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
So like watchability, Bears are top five, like most absolutely,
if you.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
If you include that's a good question. If you include
drama expectations, absolutely top five. So, like, off the top
of your head right now, if I said the team,
I want to watch the Chargers with Harbaugh. Yes, I
want to watch the Bears with Caleb.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Aaron Rodgers and Robert Salah and that dumpster fire that
is my Jets.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
You don't not really, I'll be honest with you. I
like Williams. I want to watch the Commanders with Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Oh, stop it real over the Jets.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that Jets I want to watch.
I want to watch Aaron's opener because he's really never
had a drive.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I thought you'd say you always liked and watch tire fires.
That's what they are.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
No, I think they'll be if Aaron plays. I think
they'll be viable. I think they'll be a really good,
viable team battling for nine wins. I don't think they're
a super Bowl team, but I think if Aaron plays
every game, they'll be. There'll be a good football team.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
So you put Washington top five watches for interesting and.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Well, okay, let me start again. I would say Chicago
and the Chargers are Oh, let's do it three. Let's
do a third.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Pittsburgh Steelers with Tomlin all the way out good.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I just want to watch the Russell Wilson experiment. That's
a good one.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Well, Russell Wilson justin Field's experiment. Let's let's get that straight.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
We'll heavy returning kicks, that's what they say.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
There are some fascinating like the Chiefs are down in
the list because everybody's sick.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Of the ball.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
We know they're going to be good.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I like to tweak Chiefs fans of this.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
There's a lot of Is that a bad three? Chicago
Harball Chargers and the Russell Wilson experiment. That's pretty interesting.
Jets ahead of By the way, if you go back
and I don't grade like just drafts, if you go
back and look at Pittsburgh's draft, they got like three.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
But you're bearing the lead. Tomlin could this could be
his final year in.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Pittsburgh, could be.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I think that's bigger than Russell Wilson, who's just jumping around.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
But I've seen Tomlin Pittsburgh for years. Russell Wilson in
a Steeler jersey is gonna be Oh, that's mussy. Television
that's gonna be musty TA. Now by week five it
may not be must anything, but early on it's interest.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I don't think Russ has been must CTV in a
few years.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Sorry, buddy, I know we look like each other, so
I'm supposed to be nice to him anyways. Final story,
The Stallions remain undefeated over the weekend, with a big
win against the Showboats to prove to six and oh,
clinching a conference championship. Berth Adrian Martinez remember him, former
Nebraska star. Ye, well, he's tearing up the league through
for three hundred and sixty eight yards and four touchdowns,
(24:40):
the most passing yards in a game this season, and
the first four TV passing game of the year.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Listen, they used to call him Amark.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
If you remember, he's second in the UFL in rushing yards,
fourth and passing yards. Probably gonna be on an NFL
roster come August, right, I mean at some point some
of these guys are gonna have picked.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Up we know, quarterbacks this weekend.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Those guys dropping bombs from.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Like sixteen sixty five yard got Yeah, I'll say it again.
There's NFL guys. When you watch this wide receiver kickers. Uh,
quarterbacks look like backups. But there's some dudes that's fine.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I mean you saw the Giants.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Who was that guy they'd trotted out the uh horrible
quarterback of the backup, the Jersey guy.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well it wasn't horrible.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Oh come on, Martinez is better than this.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Divito, Tommy DeVito.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, what you know, Adrian Martinez is.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Wait. I thought Tommy DeVito at the end was pretty fun.
Get out of town. Ryan weigh in on this. I thought,
Tommy Deviata moved the chains. Now some of that stay ball.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
I thought, even at the fourth quarter down thirty of
one of the games, come on, not an NFL quarterback.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I thought that the first when I first games. Yeah,
I mean I was like, this doesn't It's just he
hadn't looked big enough. And but at the end I
was like, I thought he looked okay.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Once he gets cut by the Giants.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
If the Jets are looking for a thirst ringer, give
me Adrian Martinez all day.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
He can make things happen.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
I don't know if Jordan Travis is gonna be ready,
but Adrian Martinez is. I will almost. I don't want
to make a wager with you. It's not Wager Wednesday yet.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
But we came up with a new segment.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
All because of me last week.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Right, Yeah, we did gambling segment.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Then you didn't like it, Jason delivering again, Boom Shoulders,
you're solitarying this?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Then j Mack with the news.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So the we were talking about this the as you
watch the Roast, the Brady Roast, your take is, when
you go to a twenty year dynasty like a basketball
it's usually pretty easy because dynasties don't last that long.
I mean, Russell was obviously Rod Aarbach and Russell, you know,
with the Celtics, or Shaq and Kobe Phil But when
(26:47):
in football it's more collaborative. You can have people inside
a dynasty that don't get nearly the credit because they're
an offensive line coach, you know, but they're incredibly valuable.
So that's what's interesting about the Patriots. Very few people
Brady Belichick, Ernie Adams, you know, a lot of guys
stayed for almost the entirety of it. But as it
(27:08):
aged and certain people moved out of it. It wasn't
just Brady that where you saw like erosion of the franchise.
So we're gonna we're gonna give you very top to
the bottom. My opinion on what I watched for ten years.
I mean I watched all of it, but was up
close and personal in Connecticut for ten years the Power
Pyramid for the Patriots, and that is coming up next.
(27:30):
When your business reaches a certain scale, challenges begin to surface,
you deserve a tailored solution, and that is netsweet right
now get their popular KPI checklist absolutely free. Go to
netsuitet dot com slash Herd h E r D.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (27:58):
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. Post is called All Ball. We
usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more
about the stories about what made these people love their
sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We
talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell you stories.
You download it, you listen to it.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think you like it.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio
app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
On FS one, catch an Al Central showdown as the
Tigers take on Jo's Avramirez and the Guardians all again.
That's sixth Eastern on FS one.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
All right, So we were thinking about if you the
roast last night for the Patriots, Gronk Edelman, Brady Belichick,
Drew Bledsoe, Kevin Hart, a lot of big stars out there,
and it was very, very funny, and so can I.
I think I can go watch it again, right, and
go to my little neck Flips app and watch it
again probably well, So I thought, okay, if you look
(29:02):
who gets credit, because that's generally what breaks up dynasties.
It breaks up almost all NBA dynasties, ego validation, who
gets credit, But you're not going to have a twenty
year empire. I don't care if it's IBM or it's
the Patriots. People want to take credit, somebody wants to
write the book, and that's why you have so many
good documentaries and people get their feelings hurt. But if
(29:22):
you had a Patriot pyramid in terms of importance, I
think the top is real easy. Tom's the best player
at the most important position ever Brady. You know five
Super Bowl MVPs has He has seven Super Bowls. That's
more than any franchise. And then just going to Tampa,
I think validated is greatness. Kind of an odd franchise
(29:45):
in Tampa that always has talent, can never get the
quarterback right. I think the second level is, obviously you
start with Belichick, who, for all of his rigidity late
in his career, was the de facto GM and coach
for most of it. No football coach in the history
of the sport has six Super Bowls. He is largely
viewed as defensively the best coach without peer in the sport.
(30:09):
I would not disagree with that. I didn't like Bill
the GM late in his career, but you know, nobody
can doubt his acumen, his understanding of defense. And you know, listen,
he ran a tite ship, which is hard to do
in pro sports. Robert Kraft's on that same level. And
if you think I'm out of my mind, go look
at how many bad owners there are in the NFL.
(30:31):
You can count the great owners on one hand. There's
a dozen bad ownership groups in the NFL. He didn't meddle.
You may not like how he portrayed Belichick in the
Apple TV DC. He didn't meddle. These guys all medal,
it's all ego. It's the most powerful league in the world,
along with the English Premier League, and so Craft stayed
(30:51):
out of it. And the one time, the one time
he said I'm gonna medal with Garoppolo, he was right.
Brady still had Super Bowls at him, and Pelow never
became as great as Belichick probably thought he was going
to be. Now it gets interesting the third row. I
think you have to put Gronk on it. He stood
for the Patriots way, a fun guy who sacrificed some personality,
(31:14):
a big game receiver, and the Patriots were the ultimate
big game franchise. To beat him, you had to be perfect.
Four time champ, five Pro Bowls. He would block, he
sacrificed some personality, he sacrificed his body. Only Jerry Rice
has more receiving yards and receiving touchdowns in Super Bowl history.
I would put Teddy Bruski right in the middle of this.
(31:36):
Bruski in the first run was the soul of the franchise.
It wasn't Brady, it wasn't He got three rings out
of it. There was a reason. If you watched the documentary,
he came across as so smart and so well liked.
He played in thirteen years all with the Patriots, nine
playoff appearances. He was a defensive captain for seven years.
(31:58):
He was the sole of the early dynasty. It all
centered around sort of a do it all linebracker with
a really high IQ. Then I think you have to
let's be let's be honest here. Ernie Adams was sort
of the most trusted person in the building. He was
sort of the guru. Nobody talked about him outside of Foxborough.
(32:19):
He was the director of football research. All you need
to know is when Bill Belichick, he would Bill Belichick
would listen to Ernie Adams more than any single person
in the building. He was kind of a man of mystery.
He held several positions behind great empirical leaders. There's always
somebody behind the curtain. And he kind of built the
(32:41):
scouting department. And if you a very very likable, relatable,
funny guy. If you watch the documentary, but I think
Ernie Adams deserves a ton of credit. Bill Belichick trusted
him more than anybody in the organization. Now, the final
the Foundation Final four Edelman listen, he was Wes Welcome
(33:02):
and Randy Moss didn't win super Bowls. He was the
most important wide receiver to Brady. Great third down, great playoff.
In fact, I think you can make an argument he's
a Hall of Famer based on playoff performance. That's how
Eli Manning's getting into the Super Bowl. Third all time
playoff catches in receiving yards has I believe the greatest
single catch in the history of the Super Bowl. It's
(33:23):
not Lyn Swan, it's not David Tyree. It's that catch
against Atlanta, which even in slow motion it is a catch,
but you're not sure until the very end. To me,
it's the greatest catch in the history of the Super Bowl.
Next to him Dante's Garneckia. One of the things that
was always true about this franchise, Brady was always safe.
(33:44):
He rarely got hit. They never had a bad offensive line.
They never had one bad offensive line. They had secondaries
that weren't great, they had receiving cors that weren't dynamic.
They had some running back by committee teams. Sometimes they
were a bit creaky at wide receiver. They had no
bad offensive lines. He is, in my opinion, there's an
argument that he is. I mean, Bob Kraft called him
(34:06):
like the greatest, one of the greatest of all time.
Maybe it had been the best, probably was the best assistant
they ever had never wanted to be. He retired, came
back Dante's Garnekia. They never had a bad offensive front ever,
and they were always better in big games. You're gonna
roll your eyes at this one. Alex Guerrero. Tom Brady
(34:28):
pivoted about three quarters through his career away from the
Patriot Way, became more independent. And all you need to
know is that Brady was on the forefront of pliability, health, nutrition,
and wellness in the league. Well, that's because of Guerrero
and others followed suit. If you think Brady aged better
(34:50):
than any player in the history of the sport, and
he did, it's not on cliff bars and sit ups.
It was on Alex Guerrero. That's why they won their
last couple of Super Bowls, and why Tom won a
Super Bowl in Tampa. It was his guru with his health.
And then finally, I think you have to put in
Adam vinet Terry. I always laugh when people say you
can't draft a kicker. Are you out of your mind.
(35:11):
They're often leading scores. He's the NFL's all time leading scorer.
You can't draft kickers, most field goals in NFL history.
And again, like Brady, like Gronk, like Edelman, was often
at his best in the biggest moments. And so to me,
the power pyramid. Now now Jmack rolled his eyes at
Alex Guerrero. Now you may stay to yourself. Brady Gronk,
(35:35):
Bruce Ki, Guerrero, Edelman, a Veniti. You only have five players.
But if you look at any corpore, if you look
at Fox, is it just people on camera? I mean,
there's got to be a director of sales, a director
of production. There's got to be the marketing people. I
think a big part of why this lasted was brilliance
behind the scenes. A non medaling owner, a brilliant coach,
(35:57):
the best offensive line coach ever. The star had his
nutrition pliability expert Tom. He never got hurt. He had
one season, he was never hurt. J Mack. Your reaction to.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
It, Okay, first of all, I like this. I'm not
a huge pyramid guy, but I like this. A couple
that jumped out I called up. You know, some Patriots
numbers here. So ty Law very good, one of the
great cornerbacks of all time, drafted by the Patriots. Three
Super Bowl rings, Yes, and he doesn't make the pyramid.
(36:29):
I mean it is two decades.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
But I'm not denying that. But how do I keep
off the leading score in league history? Who literally won game?
Didn't they take vinture venitary has to make the team,
has to make the lad.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
I don't even know how.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
If Guerrera was a factor for the first ten years,
we know late in his career he was important to.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Remember, Tom did not lead the dynasty early Tom led
the second dynasty, which.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Was the MVPs in the Super Bowl. He wasn't the leader.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
No, I mean early on it was Bruskie, ty Law
more a game manager.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Brady was a game manager.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
But the second one. As we've noted before, Tom Brady's
second dynasty is better than ninety percent of careers. So
when I think of Tom Brady, do I think of
completed passes? You know? What I think about Super Bowls
and length of career Guerrero is. That's the reason why.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Okay, another one, and there is a two parter. What's
the most memorable team from Brady's run. This is an
easy one. Go ahead, the most memorable individual team and
during that run.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
The record setting Moss team that couldn't win.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Right, So has Randy mosson on this pyramid?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I never felt I thought he was. I'll give you
an example. You go to college with a bunch of
guys and there's always fun guy, drinks too much. You'd
never ask him for a ride of the airport. You
could never trust him. He is a fun guy, and
you guys talk about him all the time when you
get together for the reunion. But he wasn't like somebody
you could trust. It wasn't like somebody that was there
(37:57):
a long time. He was fun guy. Randy made the Patriots,
which they rarely were fun. I mean he was over
the top, but that didn't win. This franchise was ohay,
was about efficiency details, It wasn't about home run, over
the top. Randy was the fun guy at the party,
(38:20):
but they never relied on Randy. Again, you could argue
the most talented guy, but I never felt like he'd
be an easy one. Right, Okay, But I do think
some and I've said this before, I think the star
receivers overrated. I think receivers aren't find me all the
great all time receivers. Randy Moss has no Super bowls,
(38:43):
Calvin Johnson has no Super Bowls. Larry Fitzgerald has one.
I think sometimes we glamorize Larry has.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
How many Julio Jones, Oh he went to when he.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Never won one? So arguably the three best received Jerry
Rice did, but again it was Walsh Montana Rice would
be second or third. So I think sometimes we look
at the star receiver and we go, oh my gosh,
look at some of the most talented receivers of all time.
They don't even get to Super Bowls. But the most
talented quarterbacks do, the most talented coaches do, the most
talented gms do, the most talented O lines do, the
(39:13):
most talented pass rushers do, the most talented receivers don't.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Okay, and final one the only pushback.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I never won a Super Bowl. Fitzgerald nemb won one,
Moss number one one, Calvin Johnson number one one. I
mean so, I mean my thing is they sell tickets.
They're fun, they can be important, but it's hard to
look not win super Bowls when you have a Mahomes
Reid Brady Belichick. That's what the whole sport starts.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
So and the other one.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
First of all, I'm not advocating Edelman off. I was
just saying Guerrero off. The only pushback I would say
on Teddy Bruski was Ty Law or Vince Wilfork. When
I think of the most impactful defensive player, who it
was either Law or Wilfork.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
It was not Bruskie. But that's just me.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Who was the captain? Who did you rely on for
defensive signals you rely on? I mean, that's that's where
Teddy brusk when you go to the documentary, and I
talked to Teddy a lot about this on and off
the air. When I was at the other place, Teddy
again to me the word I keep using, kind of
the brains and the soul behind the defense. You don't always.
Edelman's not as talented as Randy Moss, but he was
(40:17):
more reliable. I mean there was the punt returns, there
was receiving their third down, and he was I mean,
Edelman was better in the biggest moments. So I'm not
saying I'm right, that's just how I've how you would fundamentally,
I look for people like like We've always said that's
about the Warriors. The soul of it is Stephen Draymond.
Kevin Durant is like the Randy Moss. He stopped by
(40:39):
for a while and was great.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Oh wait, he Durant was the MVV of the finals twice.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, but they won before him and after him they did.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
But when he was on the team, he was the
best player.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
And so was Randy.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
But they didn't win though.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
When Randy left and when k D left, howd it
work out?
Speaker 4 (40:55):
They won?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, you can rent talent, but you need to found
for a house. It's nice to have, you know, really
nice piece of furniture here, it's really nice something parked
in the garage. They won before Katie and after, and
how did Katie do before and after the Warriors? So
to me, I'll always look at the Warriors as even
Steve Kerr they were winning games with Mark. I always
(41:17):
look at Steph Draymond, Kerr and KD and has probably
maybe the most talented Randy Moss is probably the most
talented player they've ever had. I think it's totally fair.
Speaker 5 (41:26):
I think it before and after we'll eventually talk about it.
But all these coaches that Lebron has run off. You
know how many titles that the guys have won without them,
You know how many they have none.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
It's a good point.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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