May 26, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin discusses the power of Caitlin Clark and her vast economic impact to the WNBA. First Things First cohost Chris Broussard joins Colin to discuss Karl-Anthony Towns' big game and how the Knicks need to open up their rotation, plus previewing the next phase of the Timberwolves-Thunder series.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to the Herd podcast. Here we go our number three
(00:28):
flying box on a Memorial Day Monday. It's the Herd
wherever you may be, however you may be listening. My
buddy Chris Brusard back from the Indy five hundred.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I watched the Indy.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Five hundred yesterday, first time I think it was ever
a Spaniard had won the Indy five hundred. I'm gonna
tell the pitch stops and the eighty five hundred. Fox
did a great job, so it's sold out for the
first time in years. The sports had some controversy the
camera placement by Fox, and it's the first time I've
ever sat and watched like ninety percent of the Indie
(01:02):
five hundred.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I mean, I'd probably have earlier in my life.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I don't know a lot of the current drivers very international,
but the camera placement by Fox. If you have any
doubt when they put that little lipstick camera just not
on the infield, but just on the interior of the
track and those cars are flying around, it is intense.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Did you watch any of it?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I was at my daughter's volleyball tournament in Anaheim's.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I got to brush up on my Indy five hundred
knowledge we may take our show there.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Now may did we tad get a lipstick camera on you?
During the commercial breaks? I've been pushing this for like
over a year now.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I move slow, not nearly as dynamic as the Indy
five hundred. By the way, the Knicks took a riveting
game three. The Knicks took it over the Pacers in
Indy thanks to an incredible comeback in the fourth quarter.
And last night in Indiana really became a what kind
of man are you?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Type of game for New York. Two things happened.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Number one, Karl Anthony town said, I'll show you what
kind of man I am. I'm going to single handedly
take over the fourth quarter. Listen the dude he has
quarters like this. He averages twenty three a game in
his career when he was in his prime, Karl Anthony
Towns always ended up near the top of those GM
surveys they do. Who would just start a franchise with
(02:19):
He doesn't play any defense, He's a little quirky, but
he can dominate games. I've been to three or four
games where he was playing, and he was the best
player on the floor at some point in all those games. So,
and the second thing that happened, and this does not
happen very often for the Pacers, they lost their way offensively.
So Haliburton end of the third quarter, beginning of the fourth,
(02:43):
So in the third beginning of the fourth, about four
and a half minutes he was on the bench. In
that time, a fifteen point lead evaporated to four. And
then he comes back in and they just never quite
felt the same again Indiana. It's hard to get them
off their offensive game. But even when the Knicks were
(03:04):
down four, three, two points, it felt like they were
in control.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So the Pacers are a rhythm.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Team and that they have the fastest pace in the league,
and they get out of their rhythm and all of
a sudden you had Nie Smith and other guys McConnell
trying to run the offense. Is like bro, that's not
it this is Aliburton's offense. They lost their quarterback. They
only shot thirty six percent in the second half at
home and shot forty two percent. That's the worst half
(03:33):
of basketball for the Pacers. And just to give you
in the playoffs, to give you another example, it flashed
on the screen. At one point in the first half,
they had fourteen fast break points. They were running the
Knicks out of the arena. In the second half total
two fast break points. Haliburton sits, they lose their rhythm.
(03:55):
He comes back in, tries to kick start it, and
he never could. And what did we talk about last week?
Whoever controls the tempo is going to win the games
and or the series. And the Knicks compressed it, slowed
it down. And also, and this matters, the Knicks hit
(04:16):
their last fifteen free throws. I know that's not a
glamorous headline, but remember Game one, the Knicks had control
and they were missing free throws opened the door.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
This was the opposite.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
They were controlling tempo in Game one, they lost tempo,
miss free throws. Here late, they controlled tempo, hit free throws,
and so they were a better roaded team than they
were a home team. The road team has won every
game in this series. So the Knicks slowed it down,
hit the freebies, and I thought their defensive rotations were
(04:50):
much better, especially when you had once Haliburton sat down
for that stretch.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And you see this in football all the time.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
You have momentum, you have a bad series, you have
a fumble, there's a turnover, and you can never find
the momentum again.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Momentum matters, and especially matters in playoff games. So we
have ourselves a series. The Knicks blue. Game one, it
kind of felt like they stall. Game three, Indiana felt
like the better team in game two. We've got a series,
and here's tidsoff basketball.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I know you guys like roll your eyes when they
say no lead is safe. But no lead is safe
because I think with the three point shot, people make
up ground quickly. Pace the game, make up ground quickly.
You see comebacks all the time, and if you let
up just a little bit, that's that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, So this is a story you may be wondering.
I don't think it's gonna make a big deal either way.
But Aaron Rodgers, according to Jeremy Fowler, there are people
in the NFL, and Jeremy Fowler works at ESPN, very
good reporter. He is saying, there are people in the NFL,
many that believe Aaron Rodgers is waiting on Minnesota. I
(06:06):
don't know that to be true, but I will say this,
Aaron loves to make people think he's a mystery and
the media can't figure him out. And he does that
because it invalidates us, and we're the one group of
people he can't control. He's worshiped by football people, he's
loved by teammates, the one group he can't control us,
(06:26):
and so he wants to invalidate us. And he's not JD. Salinger.
It's not that mysterious. The Steelers are a shaky fit
and Aaron knows it. He doesn't want to offend Mike Tomlin.
It may be if he wants to play his best spot.
But they can't figure out offense. I've done over this
a million times. They're toned def to offense. They just
(06:46):
they I think they're now making moves just to make moves.
Let's just move off George Pickens and let's get a pick,
and let's overspend for DK Metcalf and they're just making
moves to make moves. So there are reports and I
don't care about his personal life. That Aaron's personal life,
he's going through some turbulence. You wish him well. I
(07:07):
don't want to get into any speculation there, but I
just think Aaron is too smart to think the Steelers
are a good fit. The O line's been a wreck
for years. The oh coordinator position, they've run through him.
They lost Naugie Harris, their left tackle. And by the way,
it does matter. He went from Green Bay, which has
always had an offensive culture. They always get quarterback right,
(07:27):
they always have offensive coaches, they always have good offensive lines.
Green Bay does offense right, and they've been doing it
right for thirty years. Pittsburgh does defense right. And the
only two times they've done offense right they had Terry
Bradshaw and Big Ben and in between that, they're not
the same franchise. They win games, they don't win big games,
and that's what Pittsburgh's going through right now. They've been
a bottom ten total offense six years in a row,
(07:50):
and that's hard to do when you look at the
two New York franchisees, and Carolina's a bad offense in
this League and the Bears. So the Vikings makes a
ton of sense. Great brilliant offensive head coach and play caller.
They play indoors. He knows the division they have justin Jefferson.
They upgraded their offensive line in the offseason. There's also
(08:10):
a story that's interesting. So Aaron was apparently on some
podcast and said, when asked about the Saints, because we
don't know exactly what the Saints are doing, is it
going to be is Spencer Rattler?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
You know?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And Aaron Rodgers was quoted saying, yeah, I'm too old.
I don't want to live in Louisiana. Sorry. So what
that means is where Aaron plays matters to Aaron, he
is thinking about it. He doesn't want to live in
New Orleans. So that's another reason indoors knows the division NFC.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
He moved over to a defensive.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Culture plan out doors in the Northeast with the Jets
and it was a mess. Aaron doesn't want to do
that again. And Jeff Pearlman came on last week. He
wrote a book about Brett Farv, and Aaron was all
through the book and Farv didn't treat Aarin very well.
And I grew to kind of respect what Aaron had
to go through. But he made a point about where
(09:11):
Aaron's played, and the fit is really crucial when you
consider Aaron's personality.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
They just think over time, especially being in a small
Midwestern town surrounded by the Midwestern quaintness of Green Bay.
I think Aaron Rodgers really started to believe I'm the
smartest guy in the room. I know everything. I am
very intelligent.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
I know more than the coaches, I know more than
my teammates, I know more than this fan base. And again,
if you can contain that in Green Bay, Wisconsin, it's
one thing you're treated as a guy, but once you
go national, once you go to a different franchise, it
doesn't really play out that well.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
All right.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Caitlin Clark has also reported earlier today is going to
be out for what was it?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
J Mack? Was it two weeks?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
They're calling it two weeks? With a quad strain.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That was not visible during the telecast of the game.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
Yeah, listen, hey, we'll see what's going on.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
We'll see if she shows up at Pacers Knicks tomorrow,
maybe heavily bandaged, maybe with a heating pad to watch
the game.
Speaker 7 (10:13):
Obviously, that's a.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Huge one, you know for Pacers and Nixon. Kitlin Clark's
been in a lot of the games, you know, friendly
with the with the team.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I was sitting last night with a couple of guys
that go to college. They're sports fans that are in college,
and we were just talking about a bunch of stuff
and one of them loved the UFC. One of them
was a huge hockey fan. And one of them was
in a frat a Big ten school. He was in
a frat and we got into this conversation about Caitlin
Clark and some people in the room were sports fans,
(10:42):
some were not.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Most at least the young boys were.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And he said, he said, in my frat, he said, literally,
if Caitlin Clark was playing, that's what all the guys
wanted to watch the frat. Now, I mean, what does
that tell you for twenty three year old guys. They
like their gambling, they like their football, they like their UFC.
He said, no question. If Kaylin was on and there
(11:08):
were choices, that's what people wanted to watch. And I
think that's the Taylor Swift effect. Like people that you
would not see fifty five year old, sixty year old
women wouldn't normally go to watch a young pop star,
and then they go. I remember when Shania Twain was
getting people that didn't like country music too country music concerts,
and I think that's what Taylor Swift is doing. She
(11:29):
is getting people that just traditionally don't watch that league.
They may be casual basketball fans, but the phenomena.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's what Tiger did with golf.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
There are a lot of people that didn't play golf
and don't play golf, but they found Tiger fascinating. And
then when you can bring the casuals in and even
non fans in. I mean it's one thing to bring
casuals in a lot of people. A lot of great
athletes have done that. You know, you are a casual
basketball fan but you love Steph. But to bring in
like non basketball fans or people don't watch a sport
(12:01):
or a league that is Tiger and Caitlin. People were
watching the NBA before Michael, they just didn't watch it
as much. I mean, what she's doing with the WNBA
is remarkable.
Speaker 7 (12:10):
Be impressive. Colin, I will add you kind of buried
the lead there.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
You're hanging out with frat guys, you move away from me,
and now you're hanging out with frat boys.
Speaker 7 (12:17):
Let's going You're gonna wear a tank top to work tomorrow.
What's happening?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, you sometimes got to show the gun show out
a little bit. Feeling good about myself. Chris Bruce Ards
around the Corner Live It's the Hurt.
Speaker 8 (12:33):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neon Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Chris Bruce Ard is gonna be joining us a little
over ten minutes. Good game last night. We've had three
really good Knicks Facers game. Knicks had Game one and
blew it Game two, Indie Game three, Pacers have It
and and the Nick Steele It. So it's you know,
these are close games. I will say J Mack. The
(13:09):
one thing about OKC and Minnesota I was looking at
a stat here, Okase of the four teams left is
the one team you get a different team on the
road than home, and that I think a lot of
that is on age.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
They're basically the.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Deep, young team and young players rotational dudes away from
the comfort of home. We see this in college basketball,
like you see big swings on college basketball teams home
and away. You're dealing with nineteen year old guys. So
it's funny, okase average one twenty three and a half
at home, one oh five on the road, Like that's
(13:45):
a different basketball team.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Here's j Mack with a news.
Speaker 8 (13:50):
No no turn on the news. This is the herd
Line News.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Raklin. You're all excited for the Indy five hundred yesterday
with the first fantash driver ever to win the race
continuing his hot streak here he is.
Speaker 9 (14:06):
It makes this extra special that I'm the first Spanish
driver to win it, but honestly, if I was the
fiftiest Spanish driver to win it, I would be as
happy as I am now and as far as i'm now.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I learned something yesterday. The track was cold and that
had a huge effect on the drivers. I would not
have thought that, so they talked in great deal. It
was a hard track, the pitch stops were crazy. One
car caught on fire, but overall it's you know, it's
an international sport and I found the broadcast pretty captivating.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, big big Sunday in Indy with the race, and
then of course Pacers Nicks a super exciting time for
the city, except the Caitlin Park injury.
Speaker 7 (14:45):
That's the going down. You Let's move on.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Hey, listen, Colin, I lifted the Aaron Rodgers band last week.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
What a mistake?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That was?
Speaker 7 (14:51):
Third Straight Hour with more Aaron.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Rodgers doucecon because he's doing He did a podcast over
the weekend was asked about retiring a packer, a Green
Bay packer.
Speaker 7 (14:59):
Here's what he said.
Speaker 10 (15:02):
I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the
uh what the reason for that is? You know, at
the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and
most of my my favorite players retired as a Niner.
So I understand the cool thing about it. But if
I didn't do it, would that make a difference in
(15:25):
how I'm viewed in the packer's eyes.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
There's a lot of love for.
Speaker 10 (15:27):
Me and how I feel about the team. If I do,
if I don't, I don't think you should make a difference.
I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it,
I probably would.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
How about that?
Speaker 7 (15:40):
What's wrong with this guy?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, okay, so if you're not going to retire a packer,
you certainly are not retiring as a jet nobody remembers you.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
So what are you going to just retire.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
As an NFL player? Why does he consistently do nonsense
like this.
Speaker 7 (15:52):
He's trying to sound all air you did. And I'm
philosophical about this college. Would it matter if I retire
a Packer? Not like really?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I think it's like that Facebook high school relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
It sounds better than a reality.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
When remember they were tired of Aaron, like green Bay
was tired of far They and I've told you this
that I have always supported Farvan Aaron Rodgers. I think
I call it the green Bay quarterback theory is that
if you go look at Farvan Aaron Rodgers, they couldn't
be two totally different people. They became the same guy, precious,
(16:32):
using leverage, passive, aggressive, threatening retirement, and then both.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Went to the Jets and it was ugly.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
The difference is far then reinvented his career with the Vikings, who,
by the way, that's the team that reportedly Aaron's most
interested in. But I do think that because you don't
have an owner, you're not ultimately held as accountable as
Tom Brady was by Robert Kraft. If he was going
to be difficult, not saying he was or Peyton Manning
by the late Robert ursay, you don't have an owner.
(16:59):
It's the smallest town. He can't go to the grocery store.
You are really the biggest player. You're the biggest person
in the state. I mean as big as Brady was
in New England. You got the Celtics, you got the
Red Sox, you got the governor, you got the politics.
It's a big city with a lot of stuff, big corporations.
You get to a point where you are worshiped like
no other sports market in the country, and I think
(17:20):
it gets I think that would.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Do that to anybody.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I mean, far have started doing things that were like
not discreet and really bad judgment. And Aaron I think
is smart but lacks a certain self awareness because he
has been in this tunnel of love and worshiped for
like fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
The problem with this whole like who I'm retiring as
nonsense is I don't think you have a choice, Aaron Rodgers.
You won the bulk of your games, MVP's super.
Speaker 7 (17:48):
Bowl in Green Bay. That's how you're remembered.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
You can't decide, well, I'm going to retire as a
jet like, it doesn't work like that.
Speaker 7 (17:55):
Nobody thinks of him as a jet.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I mean, I'm trying to think of an example where
it would be dicey. Even Joe Montana, he couldn't say,
I don't like what the Niners did to me. I'm
retiring a team. Sorry, Palette doesn't work like that. You
were dominant with the Niners. That's how people remember you.
Speaker 7 (18:10):
Would you agree with me? Am I right here?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I mean, listen, Aaron, if he retired today, would not
be the professional first professional icon that had a choppy ending.
Go look at where Ewing ended up or Michael Jordan
with a Wizard, which Johnny Unidas.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Those are still guys like Patrick Ewing, isn't it.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
Michael Jordan was a try That's how you're being remembered.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Nobody's gonna remember Aaron's brief stay in New York. It
just it's like if you go back and look at
the Wizards and mj the players didn't like him. He
was it was rough, like it was rough, they didn't win.
Nobody cares. Aaron's legacy is set.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
In my head. I'm trying to think of one.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So Tom Brady won in New England goes to Tampa
and wins also, but I'm sorry Tom would have missed this.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
He's a New England patriot.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Like that's how you're remembered, right that you can't just decide,
Hey man, I don't want to retire a packer.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I don't think it works like that, does it?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Well, it's I think I think if Aaron retires tomorrow,
is anybody going to be surprised?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I would rather.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I mean, once you get the trophy, once you get
the money, and once you have more than enough fame.
I mean Aaron, every time I see him, he's you know,
he's in shorts and a T shirt, like he's not
out there at He's not at the at the New
York met Gala. Like, Aaron pretty much lives his own
thing and does his own He's very private guy right
in his Malibu conclave.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So on play.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So my my take with Aaron is I don't know
what the value other than getting hurt. I mean, other
Steelers don't have a left tackle other than getting hurt.
I don't see the bank. He doesn't need the money,
he doesn't need the fame. His legacy is set. I'm
just saying, if I was Aaron, at this point, I
just retire.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Here's be I'd be comfortable with who what I established.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
How about this colin in the NBA Lebron and Steph Curry,
Kevin Durant, They're all old at the end of their career.
Nobody wants them to leave. Everybody wants them to stay.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
The league needs them.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I think people at this point are like, eh, I
don't really care.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
What he does. He's not a factor, he's not a superstar.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Sorry, well, that's because there's very few Lebron's and Steph
Curry entering the league. Because the NBA draft is full
of nineteen year olds. The college draft gives you two
to three superstar quarterbacks every couple of years. So there's
this pipeline. I mean, we've talked about this. The NFL
gets about fifteen wide receivers a year from college who
(20:32):
can play immediately. So because you have to stay in
college for three years and most guys stay for four,
you get a microwavable ready to play plug and play star.
And that's and so you can be replaced much more easily.
I mean, very rarely do you have a team like
the Pittsburgh Steelers this year that you're like, Wow, they
(20:54):
don't have a quarterback in the room. I mean Cleveland's
got five. Oh, everybody's got to least competent veteran leadership
in the room.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
The Steelers are an outlier. So you're just so much more.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Not that you're Lamar Jackson's replaceable, but the pipeline college
football to the NFL is much stronger than college basketball
to the NBA.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Final story, Colin is uh Luka Dantich was spotted over
the weekend at a real Madrid game. Now, if you
glance quickly at the screen, I don't know, you wouldn't
know which one it is, because apparently he's skinny. Luka
dantag reportedly, now this is based on guys who are
analyzing the photos, has slimmed down. I'm seeing a little
love handle action there on the side. Not that it
matters if Luca it's freakin' nod May, who cares.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
But do you think he looks skinnier there?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
What are your thoughts? No?
Speaker 7 (21:42):
Yeah, I don't see it either, But that was like
I don't at the game.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I don't think he looks bad. I just think he
looks like Luca. I mean, Luca's thick, He's sturdy. That's
what he looks like.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Felt like a tank and yeah, a bit of a
soft tank. But it's not like he's out there wearing
sneadium shirts to show off the guns like your boy,
does you know me? All weekend tank tops medium.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
That's how I roll.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Okay, Jmack with the news.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Let's go to Chris Brusard, co hosts First Things First,
joining us live from New York.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So it was I was talking about this earlier.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I'm not surprised Karl Anthony Town had a big game.
I mean he's a gifted offensive player. But it was interesting.
Halliburton leaves for about four minutes end of the third,
start of the fourth, and Indiana just lost their mojo
totally offensively. He comes back, they kind of find it,
but it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Chris.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
My interpretation was, Indiana is not just about talent. They're
really a pace team. They're a rhythm team. And when
Halliburton end of third early fourth was out for four
and a half minutes, Chris, I don't think they ever
found their rhythm again. And so I'm not discrediting the Knicks.
The rotational defense was better, but some of this was.
(23:03):
It showed and illustrated how valuable Halliburton is to the
pace of this offense.
Speaker 11 (23:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (23:10):
Absolutely, look like you said, give the Knicks credit, particularly
Carl Anthony Towns was scoring the twenty points in the
fourth quarter, hit the threes, attack the basket, got to
the free throw line, so they deserve credit. But you're
absolutely right, And what you're acknowledging is how great Tyres
Halliburton is. And I was speaking with an agent about
(23:31):
this this weekend and he was bringing up that Halliburton
doesn't always lead the team in score, and I said, this.
Speaker 11 (23:37):
Dude is a true point guard.
Speaker 12 (23:39):
And he doesn't have to lead the Pacers in scoring
to be their best player. He controls the tempo, he
sets the pace, He gets.
Speaker 11 (23:48):
The ball to the right guys.
Speaker 12 (23:49):
He determines, for the most part, very smartly, when he's
going to be aggressive as a scorer, when he's gonna
sit back and get the ball elsewhere. I used to
seeing true point guards anymore, Colin were used to seeing
the point guards that score first and past second. Jalen
Brun and I'm not even disrespecting them. They're great, a
(24:10):
lot of them, but Jalen Brunson's exhibit A, and Steph
Curry and Damian Lillard, so a lot of them are
phenomenal players. But when we see a Tyres Halliburg, we
almost think, h he only gives you twenty points a game.
Magic Johnson was a career nineteen point score. I'm not
saying Tyres is magic, but he is.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
A true point guard who can lead the league and
assists and give.
Speaker 12 (24:34):
You nine to eleven a game and then also get
your twenty twenty and eighteen to twenty four points. He's
a great player. He is truly a phenomenal player.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, and there again, it is a rhythm team, and
they lost their rhythm and they couldn't find it. You know,
it's interesting about the Knicks. I was saying the Knicks, actually,
you know exactly what they need. So they need somebody.
They don't shoot threes particularly well. And because Brunson and
(25:04):
Cat Chris are poor defenders, it's hard to have him
on the floor simultaneously. So if they move off Cat,
who of course has a market, you keep Robinson for defense.
You would say, okay, we need a three ball shooter,
a secondary scorer who doesn't need the.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Ball in his hands.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
We need some length because we're losing Kat and a
willing defender. Is that not Kevin Durant? Check tech check
chech teck. I mean they don't and is it not?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Is it not KD?
Speaker 8 (25:35):
Look?
Speaker 12 (25:36):
I love KD with the Knicks with Karl Anthony Towns
and Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 11 (25:41):
I look, he's better than Kat.
Speaker 12 (25:44):
I'm not denying that, but I'm not at this point
in their careers. I'm not giving up Kat for KD
because Kat rebounds better.
Speaker 11 (25:54):
You know, he's Kat gets in foul t.
Speaker 12 (25:56):
He's not a great defender, obviously, But I just I'm
kind of done.
Speaker 11 (26:01):
With the k D experiments where he has to be
like the first guy.
Speaker 12 (26:06):
I mean, I get Brunson would be the first guy,
But to think I'm gonna get rid of Cat and
bring Katie in here and the Knicks are gonna be
the best team in the.
Speaker 11 (26:13):
East, I'm not really going there again. If I can
get him.
Speaker 12 (26:18):
Without losing Cat, then certainly, you know, and that'd be
a nice big three because KD would be the perfect
piece with them. But what I do, Colin, if the
Knicks go ahead and lose this series. I think what
they need to do, and I said this on the
show before about Tibbs. You know, job security. Certainly keep Tibbs,
no question about that, But the Knicks need to look
(26:41):
at how do we make our offense less Brunson centric
and more get more like when you look at the Pacers,
they move the ball, they the players are moving. The
Knicks are stationary for the most part. And what that
does is you don't know which pacers gonna have the
hot hand. Could be Halliburton, could be Siakam, could be
(27:05):
Nie Smith or Nim Harder, you know, somebody, the big guy,
you know, so it could be a number of their guys.
That's where the Knicks need to get because Miles Bridges
is really good to score, josh Ar can have.
Speaker 11 (27:18):
His moments, and oj A Nanobi can score.
Speaker 12 (27:21):
So I just think they need to become a little
more egalitarian in their offense because look, it's they're certainly
not better without Brunson.
Speaker 11 (27:30):
But notice their two game turning runs.
Speaker 12 (27:33):
Game one, when they took control right the fourteen oh
run with Brunson.
Speaker 11 (27:37):
On the bitch.
Speaker 12 (27:38):
Last night sixteen to seven run into the third quarter
when Brunson's out to early in the fourth, when he
comes in, they go on a sixteen to seven run
to get back.
Speaker 11 (27:48):
Into the game from down thirteen.
Speaker 12 (27:51):
So it just shows you they have the depth that
usually Tims doesn't use. And they also have other guys
that can score the ball when needed to.
Speaker 11 (28:01):
So I think they should look at that.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. You just pointed out
two things that are true. Brunson doesn't always elevate others,
and he's a poor defender. Halliburton's a better defender and
elevates everybody, but not as great as score. And I
think if you look at the knicks, they're a byproduct
of Brunson's game.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
You taught me this years ago. Your game is your game.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
If Brunson's your point guard, then you have to have
a catch and shoot shooter because he and you got
to have somebody that can be like a Klay Thompson
in his prime, somebody that can watch him and just
get it beating the ball in the corner and shoot.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You can't have another.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
That's why Brunson and Luca did not work because they're
both ball centric, whereas Haliburton is the opposite he I mean,
he'll just go into distribution mode, pace and distribution mode
and for like eight minutes and you look up and
he hits maybe one three. So it's the Pacers have
had ten different players lead them in scoring this season. Siakam,
(28:55):
I think let him in scoring for the regular season.
Speaker 11 (28:57):
So I do think the.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Pacers are a product of Halliburton style.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
He's their quarterback, and the Knicks are a Brunson style,
and so you have to work from there. I want
to go to the other series. That's interesting, now there's two.
You know that depth can be overrated in the playoffs,
it can be a little overrated. Oklahoma City is the
only of the four teams left, Chris that you get
a literally different team on the road, one oh five
(29:25):
on the road, one twenty three at home. My take
is their youth, Their young players are not the same
playoff games. On the road, they look at times overwhelmed,
which gives me the thought that, oh, Minnesota's got a
heartbeat in this series.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Do you believe that today?
Speaker 11 (29:43):
Yeah? I think that's a great point.
Speaker 12 (29:44):
You know, I've been skeptical about okay See because of
their youth all season. Like you said, we all know,
role players don't typically play as well on the road,
and that's what you're pointing to. Minnesota absolutely has a
shot because they didn't just win games three.
Speaker 11 (30:00):
They made a statement college.
Speaker 12 (30:02):
Forty two points leading by forty five like that does
not happen to OKC. And this group, for OKAC has
been in the playoffs two years, all right. They've lost
seven games in those two years by a total of
forty nine points. They've only had two losses in their
playoff history. You know, this group where by double figures
(30:26):
and both of them were twelve points. So they have
never been beaten by more than twelve points until Saturday night.
So that is a mental statement that the Minnesota made.
Speaker 11 (30:38):
The Hey, we can impose our will on you.
Speaker 12 (30:41):
And the key for Minnesota is not to turn the
ball over, which they did in games one and two.
Speaker 11 (30:46):
They didn't do that in Game three.
Speaker 12 (30:48):
That didn't allow Okase to get out and score in transition.
And then you had Anthony Edwards and Julius Randall play
well together. That's the first time this series, tho you
have played well together in the same game. If they
can get that in game four, they can even up
this series. And then We really got something to look
(31:09):
forward to.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
All right, Chris Bruce, Sorry he's on after us. First
things first at the Indie five hundred the last Thursday
and Friday shows. As always, it was great to watch.
Speaker 11 (31:18):
Good see anybody, Thanks Colin see you know.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's interesting, j Mac, you place to play a lot
of basketball. I really think the Knicks and the two
things can be true. You can love a player like
Jalen Brunson and realize there are two liabilities with him.
He has to have the ball in his hands and
he's a poor defender, and those are both true. That's
why if you told me who would I take to
(31:43):
lead a franchise, I would take Halliburton because with a
new roster, construction and aprons, you don't get multiple stars,
meaning Halliburton.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Can give me twenty.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
He's not the closer, obviously, well, but he's a better
he's longer, he's a better defender, and he's a much
better distribution pace guy. And so it goes against what
everybody believes because in basketball, in our history, the closer
is the man. But the league has changed, right like
he used to be four years ago, Just get free closers,
(32:15):
get Durant Steph Klag get closers you win.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
You can't do that anymore. So the league is moving into.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
A direction of get you can have a closer, but
the perfect team is a I think this is why
I think now Indiana doesn't match up great with OKC.
But if you had to choose Halliburton or I think
ninety percent of fans would take Brunson over Halliburton. But
my take is defense matters in the playoffs. One's a
(32:43):
better distributor, one's a better score, but the other can score.
And I think the length of Halliburton in his herky
jerky style, I think he's just hard. So I again
as a tough because I know, but because of I mean,
as we're talking about Brunson, we acknowledge like you could
put anybody in the league. You could put with Halibert.
(33:04):
Any player would work, Jannis direct, any player. You could
not put Luca with Brunson. You're like, well, they both
need the ball, couldn't put you couldn't put Harden with Brunson.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
Got to I think the conference finals.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
In Dallas they didn't work.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I mean, they they scored, but they were both terrible defenders. Well, yes,
so you couldn't put Kyrie or Harden with Brunson.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
You couldn't. You couldn't put everybody with Halibert.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Well, the interesting thing with Brunson yesterday, and it's tough
for Knicks fans to.
Speaker 7 (33:36):
Talk about Colin. He was awful.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
He was terrible in that game. He sat out, I believe,
the first ten minutes of the fourth quarter when they
came back in a must win season on the line,
if he was on the bench, and to do that
without your start is a little weird.
Speaker 7 (33:51):
I don't care what to make of it. Maybe it's one.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Game, No, no, no, The two biggest runs by New York
have been when Brunson's on the bench. Yeah, the one
form period the Pacers went into the tank. Halliburton's on
the bench. So the answer is in front of you.
Get over your emotion. No, no, no, no, no, that's not debatable.
No no, no, it's not. It's two games. Brunson and
Cat can't be on the floorid again.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Okay, but it's the problem the counter and I'm gonna
defend my guy bruns In. Nick, don't sniff this round
without Brunson. Obviously, he's an elite point guard.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
They needed him. He's the most clutch player in the
league this year.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Kirk Cousins can win you a division, but he's a
liability for a championship. There is a ceiling with Brunson.
Small can't defend and has to have the ball.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
This is tough, and again people are not gonna want
to hear this.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Take the fan hat off. If you can't defend, for watching.
Speaker 7 (34:42):
The fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
They can't play Townsend Brunson in crunch time together because
they get annihilated.
Speaker 7 (34:48):
That's two terrible defenders.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
So who do you move off of if you replace
Towny with a great defender?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Can you keep? Can you still know it's easy? You're
you're talking yourself out of easy stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You keep brun He's the quarterback, but he is absolutely
as great as he is. He is a liability on
the defense end, so you can't play him with kat
si Akham and Halliburton are magic together. Just ask yourself this.
Everybody works with Mahomes, everybody. Not everybody works with Tua
(35:22):
because he can't throw a deep ball in bad weather.
Everybody works with Halliburton. He works with every player. Brunson
works with a guy that you couldn't play with Harden Kyrie.
He needs the ball, and you also have to put
him in a back court with guys that can defend,
because he doesn't, he'll get picked on.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
This sounds a little like early Steph Curry, specifically when
they lost in twenty sixteen, remembers, well, Curry can't defend guys.
Speaker 7 (35:51):
He led the league in steals.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
I know it.
Speaker 7 (35:53):
Steals don't matter.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Okay, that's not that no, but again you're answering your question.
What did the team have best defender in the league, Clay,
best guard defender in the league, and Andrea I Guidala.
So the Warriors acknowledged Steph's liability, so we went and
got Iggy off the bench, Clay. They had three elite defenders.
(36:15):
So that's what the Knicks the problem is. The Knicks
are like, we need the scoring with Brunson, but Cat's
a terrible defensive player. So that's why Indiana is gonna
win this series. Indiana is just going to be able
to Oh god, yeah, I mean it's it's sure. Yeah,
they're gonna win Game four.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Quick note, I saw somebody had called it up. Apparently
the Pacers have outshot their opponent in every playoff game
from three except the last game, where they were five
for twenty five last night. What if this has been
an incendiary run from deep. I think they're shooting forty
three in the playoffs and all of a sudden they
cooled down over the next few games.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
They're not gonna cool down. The teams are what your
game is your game. They'll get hot. They're at home
that they had an injury.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
I'm reaching baby, I need my knicks in the final.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, but it's it's hard for New York fan. It's like, well,
we couldn't be here without Brunson. Absolutely, But that means
you're a playoff team. Like there are certain players, like
they create stability, they create leadership.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Dak Prescott good enough to win a division, you put.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Him in a playoff, you're all of a sudden like, oh,
he's like the seventh best quarterback minimum in the playoff.
So Brunson provides a closer, He provides leadership, intelligence, work ethic.
But there are holes in the game, and they're just
ask yourself. When Lebron was in his prime, even ball centric,
Kyrie could play with him, Wade could play with him,
(37:37):
and Wade wasn't a great fit. Everybody could play with Lebron.
I would say Jason Well, No, Jason Tatum, he fits
on every team. Klay Thompson in his prime, he fit
on every team. D Wade played with Shack, he played
with Lebron, he played with Bosh, he played d Wade
could play with anybody. Players that need the ball in
their hands and slow down the offense can't play with everybody.
(38:01):
I'm telling you Halliburton is one of those six guys
in the league, now maybe there's four. You could put
him on every team in the league and the team
would be better if you put him on Minnesota, they're
the champs.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I think we need a top a new top ten
list best players in the league.
Speaker 7 (38:16):
Is hellib On in Brunson off.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
No, No, I'm saying you.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Could put Halliburton, Halliburton and Randall Gobert. Is the NBA
champ Indiana, maybe the NBA champ Oklahoma City. Halliburton to
SGA and that bench hallet. You put Brunson on Oklahoma City, Well,
you're taking.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
The ball at SGA's hands. Well good is that?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So? I mean again, I like Jalen Brunson, but Halliburton
is dude. He lubricates every team in the league. Tomorrow,
you're looking at a special player.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
We break it's the.
Speaker 8 (38:53):
Hurt to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in noononeaster,
not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
What do I think Chris Brusard in eighteen year NFL
bet Matt Hasselbeck for joining us on this Memorial Day Monday,
we talked a little bit about Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers
said a couple of different things as he was at
some public setting. A he's not going to play for
the Saints. He didn't want to live in Louisiana, showing
(39:28):
that like where he plays matters a lot. It's not
just about playing. He wants the right fit. That's why
Minnesota is interesting to a lot of people. Secondly, he
said he wouldn't be opposed to playing in Green Bay.
If they asked, he'd probably go. So it tells you
didn't have you know, he doesn't necessarily have to be
the starter. He's telling you, he's telling you he doesn't
need to play forever. We saw an earlier report where
(39:49):
he'd be willing to play for ten million dollars, So
it sounds like Aaron, he wants to get comfortable. He
would be comfortable, according to reports in Minnesota. He knows
the division. He acknowledged at this public event. He would
be comfortably being a backup in Green Bay. I mean
that those are Aaron's words, those are not mine. So
that's kind of a revelation that he would be willing
(40:09):
to go back to Green Bay. He said, if they asked,
I would go. That's kind of a game changer to me.
It shows me where his head's at, where he understands
New York was bumpy by saying, quote saying I'm not
going to play in New Orleans. I don't want to
live in Louisiana. He's telling you where he plays matter,
it matters. That's a huge.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Part of it.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
That's why the Pittsburgh thing never felt right to me.
Here's Hasselback earlier on Aaron's options.
Speaker 13 (40:35):
The quarterback free agency situation. When you're at the end
of your career, it's very similar to musical chairs. There's
only a certain amount of chairs when the music stops.
The music stops. And so I've been saying this for
a long time. I believe I said it on your show.
Aaron Rodgers is going to be with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
It needs to be mutual acceptance. And the music's about
(40:56):
to stop soon here and he's going to have to
sit down or get out.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
It just feels like it would just be.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
It would be better than the Jets season, but nothing
resembling his Green Bay career. It just I mean, I
think there are a six to seven win team with
their current quarterbacks, mostly on defense and coaching, they would
be an eight win team.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
If Aaron Rodgers show it, they.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Go from six to eight and you say, well, he's
much better than Will Howard. He's not younger, he's not cheaper,
he can be prickly, he doesn't want to necessary. We
don't know if it works with Arthur Smith. They don't
have the run game.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I know.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I think Nagie Harris is a big loss. I think
it's a big game for the Chargers. I think it'll
be a noticeable game loss for the Steelers. He won't
have the run game. I think the running back for
the Jets, Breeze Hall, is better than the current running
back situation for Pittsburgh. I think the Jets left tackle
situation today is better than the Steelers left tackle situation.
So I think Pittsburgh feels like a bunch of nonsense
(41:57):
and a really bumpy seven to eight team and the
risk of getting hurt again.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Hey, can I give you a name from your list
of four that I would swap in for Gino Smith, Deebo,
Samuel to.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Why I thought about that.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
I thought about that last year Terry McLaurin was bottled
up in a couple of games.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
They didn't have a counter punch, and I just wonder
Kingsbury's smart guy knows how the scheme dude's open. I
think Debo could be in for a super clutch year
because remember when when McLaurin was taken away, it was like, hey, Jayden,
make a play, just go run wild and get us
third or fourth down.
Speaker 7 (42:31):
Now you've got Deebo, who's a great yak guy.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
I think that's a huge, sneaky, big pickup from Washington.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
My only concern is Deebo can get dinged up because
of his style and so like, is he playing eleven
games if you told me today fourteen games?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yes? Eleven no?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
And it usually takes time to kind of work him
into like an offense. But I thought Debo was the
one that I thought, I mean, I think George Pickens
actually will help Dallas. I just think that my ceiling
is so low on they're over all roster and their
running back room, and they're like, all right, we're done. Uh.
First things first, around the corner. Matt Hasselback, Christ Brussard, J. Mack.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
We'll see you tomorrow
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to the Herd podcast. Here we go our number three
(00:28):
flying box on a Memorial Day Monday. It's the Herd
wherever you may be, however you may be listening. My
buddy Chris Brusard back from the Indy five hundred.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I watched the Indy.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Five hundred yesterday, first time I think it was ever
a Spaniard had won the Indy five hundred. I'm gonna
tell the pitch stops and the eighty five hundred. Fox
did a great job, so it's sold out for the
first time in years. The sports had some controversy the
camera placement by Fox, and it's the first time I've
ever sat and watched like ninety percent of the Indie
(01:02):
five hundred.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I mean, I'd probably have earlier in my life.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I don't know a lot of the current drivers very international,
but the camera placement by Fox. If you have any
doubt when they put that little lipstick camera just not
on the infield, but just on the interior of the
track and those cars are flying around, it is intense.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Did you watch any of it?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I was at my daughter's volleyball tournament in Anaheim's.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I got to brush up on my Indy five hundred
knowledge we may take our show there.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Now may did we tad get a lipstick camera on you?
During the commercial breaks? I've been pushing this for like
over a year now.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I move slow, not nearly as dynamic as the Indy
five hundred. By the way, the Knicks took a riveting
game three. The Knicks took it over the Pacers in
Indy thanks to an incredible comeback in the fourth quarter.
And last night in Indiana really became a what kind
of man are you?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Type of game for New York. Two things happened.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Number one, Karl Anthony town said, I'll show you what
kind of man I am. I'm going to single handedly
take over the fourth quarter. Listen the dude he has
quarters like this. He averages twenty three a game in
his career when he was in his prime, Karl Anthony
Towns always ended up near the top of those GM
surveys they do. Who would just start a franchise with
(02:19):
He doesn't play any defense, He's a little quirky, but
he can dominate games. I've been to three or four
games where he was playing, and he was the best
player on the floor at some point in all those games. So,
and the second thing that happened, and this does not
happen very often for the Pacers, they lost their way offensively.
So Haliburton end of the third quarter, beginning of the fourth,
(02:43):
So in the third beginning of the fourth, about four
and a half minutes he was on the bench. In
that time, a fifteen point lead evaporated to four. And
then he comes back in and they just never quite
felt the same again Indiana. It's hard to get them
off their offensive game. But even when the Knicks were
(03:04):
down four, three, two points, it felt like they were
in control.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So the Pacers are a rhythm.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Team and that they have the fastest pace in the league,
and they get out of their rhythm and all of
a sudden you had Nie Smith and other guys McConnell
trying to run the offense. Is like bro, that's not
it this is Aliburton's offense. They lost their quarterback. They
only shot thirty six percent in the second half at
home and shot forty two percent. That's the worst half
(03:33):
of basketball for the Pacers. And just to give you
in the playoffs, to give you another example, it flashed
on the screen. At one point in the first half,
they had fourteen fast break points. They were running the
Knicks out of the arena. In the second half total
two fast break points. Haliburton sits, they lose their rhythm.
(03:55):
He comes back in, tries to kick start it, and
he never could. And what did we talk about last week?
Whoever controls the tempo is going to win the games
and or the series. And the Knicks compressed it, slowed
it down. And also, and this matters, the Knicks hit
(04:16):
their last fifteen free throws. I know that's not a
glamorous headline, but remember Game one, the Knicks had control
and they were missing free throws opened the door.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
This was the opposite.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
They were controlling tempo in Game one, they lost tempo,
miss free throws. Here late, they controlled tempo, hit free throws,
and so they were a better roaded team than they
were a home team. The road team has won every
game in this series. So the Knicks slowed it down,
hit the freebies, and I thought their defensive rotations were
(04:50):
much better, especially when you had once Haliburton sat down
for that stretch.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And you see this in football all the time.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
You have momentum, you have a bad series, you have
a fumble, there's a turnover, and you can never find
the momentum again.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Momentum matters, and especially matters in playoff games. So we
have ourselves a series. The Knicks blue. Game one, it
kind of felt like they stall. Game three, Indiana felt
like the better team in game two. We've got a series,
and here's tidsoff basketball.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I know you guys like roll your eyes when they
say no lead is safe. But no lead is safe
because I think with the three point shot, people make
up ground quickly. Pace the game, make up ground quickly.
You see comebacks all the time, and if you let
up just a little bit, that's that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, So this is a story you may be wondering.
I don't think it's gonna make a big deal either way.
But Aaron Rodgers, according to Jeremy Fowler, there are people
in the NFL, and Jeremy Fowler works at ESPN, very
good reporter. He is saying, there are people in the NFL,
many that believe Aaron Rodgers is waiting on Minnesota. I
(06:06):
don't know that to be true, but I will say this,
Aaron loves to make people think he's a mystery and
the media can't figure him out. And he does that
because it invalidates us, and we're the one group of
people he can't control. He's worshiped by football people, he's
loved by teammates, the one group he can't control us,
(06:26):
and so he wants to invalidate us. And he's not JD. Salinger.
It's not that mysterious. The Steelers are a shaky fit
and Aaron knows it. He doesn't want to offend Mike Tomlin.
It may be if he wants to play his best spot.
But they can't figure out offense. I've done over this
a million times. They're toned def to offense. They just
(06:46):
they I think they're now making moves just to make moves.
Let's just move off George Pickens and let's get a pick,
and let's overspend for DK Metcalf and they're just making
moves to make moves. So there are reports and I
don't care about his personal life. That Aaron's personal life,
he's going through some turbulence. You wish him well. I
(07:07):
don't want to get into any speculation there, but I
just think Aaron is too smart to think the Steelers
are a good fit. The O line's been a wreck
for years. The oh coordinator position, they've run through him.
They lost Naugie Harris, their left tackle. And by the way,
it does matter. He went from Green Bay, which has
always had an offensive culture. They always get quarterback right,
(07:27):
they always have offensive coaches, they always have good offensive lines.
Green Bay does offense right, and they've been doing it
right for thirty years. Pittsburgh does defense right. And the
only two times they've done offense right they had Terry
Bradshaw and Big Ben and in between that, they're not
the same franchise. They win games, they don't win big games,
and that's what Pittsburgh's going through right now. They've been
a bottom ten total offense six years in a row,
(07:50):
and that's hard to do when you look at the
two New York franchisees, and Carolina's a bad offense in
this League and the Bears. So the Vikings makes a
ton of sense. Great brilliant offensive head coach and play caller.
They play indoors. He knows the division they have justin Jefferson.
They upgraded their offensive line in the offseason. There's also
(08:10):
a story that's interesting. So Aaron was apparently on some
podcast and said, when asked about the Saints, because we
don't know exactly what the Saints are doing, is it
going to be is Spencer Rattler?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
You know?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And Aaron Rodgers was quoted saying, yeah, I'm too old.
I don't want to live in Louisiana. Sorry. So what
that means is where Aaron plays matters to Aaron, he
is thinking about it. He doesn't want to live in
New Orleans. So that's another reason indoors knows the division NFC.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
He moved over to a defensive.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Culture plan out doors in the Northeast with the Jets
and it was a mess. Aaron doesn't want to do
that again. And Jeff Pearlman came on last week. He
wrote a book about Brett Farv, and Aaron was all
through the book and Farv didn't treat Aarin very well.
And I grew to kind of respect what Aaron had
to go through. But he made a point about where
(09:11):
Aaron's played, and the fit is really crucial when you
consider Aaron's personality.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
They just think over time, especially being in a small
Midwestern town surrounded by the Midwestern quaintness of Green Bay.
I think Aaron Rodgers really started to believe I'm the
smartest guy in the room. I know everything. I am
very intelligent.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
I know more than the coaches, I know more than
my teammates, I know more than this fan base. And again,
if you can contain that in Green Bay, Wisconsin, it's
one thing you're treated as a guy, but once you
go national, once you go to a different franchise, it
doesn't really play out that well.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
All right.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Caitlin Clark has also reported earlier today is going to
be out for what was it?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
J Mack? Was it two weeks?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
They're calling it two weeks? With a quad strain.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That was not visible during the telecast of the game.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
Yeah, listen, hey, we'll see what's going on.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
We'll see if she shows up at Pacers Knicks tomorrow,
maybe heavily bandaged, maybe with a heating pad to watch
the game.
Speaker 7 (10:13):
Obviously, that's a.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Huge one, you know for Pacers and Nixon. Kitlin Clark's
been in a lot of the games, you know, friendly
with the with the team.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I was sitting last night with a couple of guys
that go to college. They're sports fans that are in college,
and we were just talking about a bunch of stuff
and one of them loved the UFC. One of them
was a huge hockey fan. And one of them was
in a frat a Big ten school. He was in
a frat and we got into this conversation about Caitlin
Clark and some people in the room were sports fans,
(10:42):
some were not.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Most at least the young boys were.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And he said, he said, in my frat, he said, literally,
if Caitlin Clark was playing, that's what all the guys
wanted to watch the frat. Now, I mean, what does
that tell you for twenty three year old guys. They
like their gambling, they like their football, they like their UFC.
He said, no question. If Kaylin was on and there
(11:08):
were choices, that's what people wanted to watch. And I
think that's the Taylor Swift effect. Like people that you
would not see fifty five year old, sixty year old
women wouldn't normally go to watch a young pop star,
and then they go. I remember when Shania Twain was
getting people that didn't like country music too country music concerts,
and I think that's what Taylor Swift is doing. She
(11:29):
is getting people that just traditionally don't watch that league.
They may be casual basketball fans, but the phenomena.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's what Tiger did with golf.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
There are a lot of people that didn't play golf
and don't play golf, but they found Tiger fascinating. And
then when you can bring the casuals in and even
non fans in. I mean it's one thing to bring
casuals in a lot of people. A lot of great
athletes have done that. You know, you are a casual
basketball fan but you love Steph. But to bring in
like non basketball fans or people don't watch a sport
(12:01):
or a league that is Tiger and Caitlin. People were
watching the NBA before Michael, they just didn't watch it
as much. I mean, what she's doing with the WNBA
is remarkable.
Speaker 7 (12:10):
Be impressive. Colin, I will add you kind of buried
the lead there.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
You're hanging out with frat guys, you move away from me,
and now you're hanging out with frat boys.
Speaker 7 (12:17):
Let's going You're gonna wear a tank top to work tomorrow.
What's happening?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, you sometimes got to show the gun show out
a little bit. Feeling good about myself. Chris Bruce Ards
around the Corner Live It's the Hurt.
Speaker 8 (12:33):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neon Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Chris Bruce Ard is gonna be joining us a little
over ten minutes. Good game last night. We've had three
really good Knicks Facers game. Knicks had Game one and
blew it Game two, Indie Game three, Pacers have It
and and the Nick Steele It. So it's you know,
these are close games. I will say J Mack. The
(13:09):
one thing about OKC and Minnesota I was looking at
a stat here, Okase of the four teams left is
the one team you get a different team on the
road than home, and that I think a lot of
that is on age.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
They're basically the.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Deep, young team and young players rotational dudes away from
the comfort of home. We see this in college basketball,
like you see big swings on college basketball teams home
and away. You're dealing with nineteen year old guys. So
it's funny, okase average one twenty three and a half
at home, one oh five on the road, Like that's
(13:45):
a different basketball team.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Here's j Mack with a news.
Speaker 8 (13:50):
No no turn on the news. This is the herd
Line News.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Raklin. You're all excited for the Indy five hundred yesterday
with the first fantash driver ever to win the race
continuing his hot streak here he is.
Speaker 9 (14:06):
It makes this extra special that I'm the first Spanish
driver to win it, but honestly, if I was the
fiftiest Spanish driver to win it, I would be as
happy as I am now and as far as i'm now.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I learned something yesterday. The track was cold and that
had a huge effect on the drivers. I would not
have thought that, so they talked in great deal. It
was a hard track, the pitch stops were crazy. One
car caught on fire, but overall it's you know, it's
an international sport and I found the broadcast pretty captivating.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, big big Sunday in Indy with the race, and
then of course Pacers Nicks a super exciting time for
the city, except the Caitlin Park injury.
Speaker 7 (14:45):
That's the going down. You Let's move on.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Hey, listen, Colin, I lifted the Aaron Rodgers band last week.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
What a mistake?
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That was?
Speaker 7 (14:51):
Third Straight Hour with more Aaron.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Rodgers doucecon because he's doing He did a podcast over
the weekend was asked about retiring a packer, a Green
Bay packer.
Speaker 7 (14:59):
Here's what he said.
Speaker 10 (15:02):
I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the
uh what the reason for that is? You know, at
the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and
most of my my favorite players retired as a Niner.
So I understand the cool thing about it. But if
I didn't do it, would that make a difference in
(15:25):
how I'm viewed in the packer's eyes.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
There's a lot of love for.
Speaker 10 (15:27):
Me and how I feel about the team. If I do,
if I don't, I don't think you should make a difference.
I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it,
I probably would.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
How about that?
Speaker 7 (15:40):
What's wrong with this guy?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, okay, so if you're not going to retire a packer,
you certainly are not retiring as a jet nobody remembers you.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
So what are you going to just retire.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
As an NFL player? Why does he consistently do nonsense
like this.
Speaker 7 (15:52):
He's trying to sound all air you did. And I'm
philosophical about this college. Would it matter if I retire
a Packer? Not like really?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I think it's like that Facebook high school relationship.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
It sounds better than a reality.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
When remember they were tired of Aaron, like green Bay
was tired of far They and I've told you this
that I have always supported Farvan Aaron Rodgers. I think
I call it the green Bay quarterback theory is that
if you go look at Farvan Aaron Rodgers, they couldn't
be two totally different people. They became the same guy, precious,
(16:32):
using leverage, passive, aggressive, threatening retirement, and then both.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Went to the Jets and it was ugly.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
The difference is far then reinvented his career with the Vikings, who,
by the way, that's the team that reportedly Aaron's most
interested in. But I do think that because you don't
have an owner, you're not ultimately held as accountable as
Tom Brady was by Robert Kraft. If he was going
to be difficult, not saying he was or Peyton Manning
by the late Robert ursay, you don't have an owner.
(16:59):
It's the smallest town. He can't go to the grocery store.
You are really the biggest player. You're the biggest person
in the state. I mean as big as Brady was
in New England. You got the Celtics, you got the
Red Sox, you got the governor, you got the politics.
It's a big city with a lot of stuff, big corporations.
You get to a point where you are worshiped like
no other sports market in the country, and I think
(17:20):
it gets I think that would.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Do that to anybody.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I mean, far have started doing things that were like
not discreet and really bad judgment. And Aaron I think
is smart but lacks a certain self awareness because he
has been in this tunnel of love and worshiped for
like fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
The problem with this whole like who I'm retiring as
nonsense is I don't think you have a choice, Aaron Rodgers.
You won the bulk of your games, MVP's super.
Speaker 7 (17:48):
Bowl in Green Bay. That's how you're remembered.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
You can't decide, well, I'm going to retire as a
jet like, it doesn't work like that.
Speaker 7 (17:55):
Nobody thinks of him as a jet.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I mean, I'm trying to think of an example where
it would be dicey. Even Joe Montana, he couldn't say,
I don't like what the Niners did to me. I'm
retiring a team. Sorry, Palette doesn't work like that. You
were dominant with the Niners. That's how people remember you.
Speaker 7 (18:10):
Would you agree with me? Am I right here?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I mean, listen, Aaron, if he retired today, would not
be the professional first professional icon that had a choppy ending.
Go look at where Ewing ended up or Michael Jordan
with a Wizard, which Johnny Unidas.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Those are still guys like Patrick Ewing, isn't it.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
Michael Jordan was a try That's how you're being remembered.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Nobody's gonna remember Aaron's brief stay in New York. It
just it's like if you go back and look at
the Wizards and mj the players didn't like him. He
was it was rough, like it was rough, they didn't win.
Nobody cares. Aaron's legacy is set.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
In my head. I'm trying to think of one.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So Tom Brady won in New England goes to Tampa
and wins also, but I'm sorry Tom would have missed this.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
He's a New England patriot.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Like that's how you're remembered, right that you can't just decide,
Hey man, I don't want to retire a packer.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
I don't think it works like that, does it?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Well, it's I think I think if Aaron retires tomorrow,
is anybody going to be surprised?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I would rather.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I mean, once you get the trophy, once you get
the money, and once you have more than enough fame.
I mean Aaron, every time I see him, he's you know,
he's in shorts and a T shirt, like he's not
out there at He's not at the at the New
York met Gala. Like, Aaron pretty much lives his own
thing and does his own He's very private guy right
in his Malibu conclave.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So on play.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So my my take with Aaron is I don't know
what the value other than getting hurt. I mean, other
Steelers don't have a left tackle other than getting hurt.
I don't see the bank. He doesn't need the money,
he doesn't need the fame. His legacy is set. I'm
just saying, if I was Aaron, at this point, I
just retire.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Here's be I'd be comfortable with who what I established.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
How about this colin in the NBA Lebron and Steph Curry,
Kevin Durant, They're all old at the end of their career.
Nobody wants them to leave. Everybody wants them to stay.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
The league needs them.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I think people at this point are like, eh, I
don't really care.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
What he does. He's not a factor, he's not a superstar.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Sorry, well, that's because there's very few Lebron's and Steph
Curry entering the league. Because the NBA draft is full
of nineteen year olds. The college draft gives you two
to three superstar quarterbacks every couple of years. So there's
this pipeline. I mean, we've talked about this. The NFL
gets about fifteen wide receivers a year from college who
(20:32):
can play immediately. So because you have to stay in
college for three years and most guys stay for four,
you get a microwavable ready to play plug and play star.
And that's and so you can be replaced much more easily.
I mean, very rarely do you have a team like
the Pittsburgh Steelers this year that you're like, Wow, they
(20:54):
don't have a quarterback in the room. I mean Cleveland's
got five. Oh, everybody's got to least competent veteran leadership
in the room.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
The Steelers are an outlier. So you're just so much more.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Not that you're Lamar Jackson's replaceable, but the pipeline college
football to the NFL is much stronger than college basketball
to the NBA.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Final story, Colin is uh Luka Dantich was spotted over
the weekend at a real Madrid game. Now, if you
glance quickly at the screen, I don't know, you wouldn't
know which one it is, because apparently he's skinny. Luka
dantag reportedly, now this is based on guys who are
analyzing the photos, has slimmed down. I'm seeing a little
love handle action there on the side. Not that it
matters if Luca it's freakin' nod May, who cares.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
But do you think he looks skinnier there?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
What are your thoughts? No?
Speaker 7 (21:42):
Yeah, I don't see it either, But that was like
I don't at the game.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I don't think he looks bad. I just think he
looks like Luca. I mean, Luca's thick, He's sturdy. That's
what he looks like.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Felt like a tank and yeah, a bit of a
soft tank. But it's not like he's out there wearing
sneadium shirts to show off the guns like your boy,
does you know me? All weekend tank tops medium.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
That's how I roll.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Okay, Jmack with the news.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Let's go to Chris Brusard, co hosts First Things First,
joining us live from New York.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So it was I was talking about this earlier.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I'm not surprised Karl Anthony Town had a big game.
I mean he's a gifted offensive player. But it was interesting.
Halliburton leaves for about four minutes end of the third,
start of the fourth, and Indiana just lost their mojo
totally offensively. He comes back, they kind of find it,
but it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Chris.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
My interpretation was, Indiana is not just about talent. They're
really a pace team. They're a rhythm team. And when
Halliburton end of third early fourth was out for four
and a half minutes, Chris, I don't think they ever
found their rhythm again. And so I'm not discrediting the Knicks.
The rotational defense was better, but some of this was.
(23:03):
It showed and illustrated how valuable Halliburton is to the
pace of this offense.
Speaker 11 (23:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (23:10):
Absolutely, look like you said, give the Knicks credit, particularly
Carl Anthony Towns was scoring the twenty points in the
fourth quarter, hit the threes, attack the basket, got to
the free throw line, so they deserve credit. But you're
absolutely right, And what you're acknowledging is how great Tyres
Halliburton is. And I was speaking with an agent about
(23:31):
this this weekend and he was bringing up that Halliburton
doesn't always lead the team in score, and I said, this.
Speaker 11 (23:37):
Dude is a true point guard.
Speaker 12 (23:39):
And he doesn't have to lead the Pacers in scoring
to be their best player. He controls the tempo, he
sets the pace, He gets.
Speaker 11 (23:48):
The ball to the right guys.
Speaker 12 (23:49):
He determines, for the most part, very smartly, when he's
going to be aggressive as a scorer, when he's gonna
sit back and get the ball elsewhere. I used to
seeing true point guards anymore, Colin were used to seeing
the point guards that score first and past second. Jalen
Brun and I'm not even disrespecting them. They're great, a
(24:10):
lot of them, but Jalen Brunson's exhibit A, and Steph
Curry and Damian Lillard, so a lot of them are
phenomenal players. But when we see a Tyres Halliburg, we
almost think, h he only gives you twenty points a game.
Magic Johnson was a career nineteen point score. I'm not
saying Tyres is magic, but he is.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
A true point guard who can lead the league and
assists and give.
Speaker 12 (24:34):
You nine to eleven a game and then also get
your twenty twenty and eighteen to twenty four points. He's
a great player. He is truly a phenomenal player.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, and there again, it is a rhythm team, and
they lost their rhythm and they couldn't find it. You know,
it's interesting about the Knicks. I was saying the Knicks, actually,
you know exactly what they need. So they need somebody.
They don't shoot threes particularly well. And because Brunson and
(25:04):
Cat Chris are poor defenders, it's hard to have him
on the floor simultaneously. So if they move off Cat,
who of course has a market, you keep Robinson for defense.
You would say, okay, we need a three ball shooter,
a secondary scorer who doesn't need the.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Ball in his hands.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
We need some length because we're losing Kat and a
willing defender. Is that not Kevin Durant? Check tech check
chech teck. I mean they don't and is it not?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Is it not KD?
Speaker 8 (25:35):
Look?
Speaker 12 (25:36):
I love KD with the Knicks with Karl Anthony Towns
and Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 11 (25:41):
I look, he's better than Kat.
Speaker 12 (25:44):
I'm not denying that, but I'm not at this point
in their careers. I'm not giving up Kat for KD
because Kat rebounds better.
Speaker 11 (25:54):
You know, he's Kat gets in foul t.
Speaker 12 (25:56):
He's not a great defender, obviously, But I just I'm
kind of done.
Speaker 11 (26:01):
With the k D experiments where he has to be
like the first guy.
Speaker 12 (26:06):
I mean, I get Brunson would be the first guy,
But to think I'm gonna get rid of Cat and
bring Katie in here and the Knicks are gonna be
the best team in the.
Speaker 11 (26:13):
East, I'm not really going there again. If I can
get him.
Speaker 12 (26:18):
Without losing Cat, then certainly, you know, and that'd be
a nice big three because KD would be the perfect
piece with them. But what I do, Colin, if the
Knicks go ahead and lose this series. I think what
they need to do, and I said this on the
show before about Tibbs. You know, job security. Certainly keep Tibbs,
no question about that, But the Knicks need to look
(26:41):
at how do we make our offense less Brunson centric
and more get more like when you look at the Pacers,
they move the ball, they the players are moving. The
Knicks are stationary for the most part. And what that
does is you don't know which pacers gonna have the
hot hand. Could be Halliburton, could be Siakam, could be
(27:05):
Nie Smith or Nim Harder, you know, somebody, the big guy,
you know, so it could be a number of their guys.
That's where the Knicks need to get because Miles Bridges
is really good to score, josh Ar can have.
Speaker 11 (27:18):
His moments, and oj A Nanobi can score.
Speaker 12 (27:21):
So I just think they need to become a little
more egalitarian in their offense because look, it's they're certainly
not better without Brunson.
Speaker 11 (27:30):
But notice their two game turning runs.
Speaker 12 (27:33):
Game one, when they took control right the fourteen oh
run with Brunson.
Speaker 11 (27:37):
On the bitch.
Speaker 12 (27:38):
Last night sixteen to seven run into the third quarter
when Brunson's out to early in the fourth, when he
comes in, they go on a sixteen to seven run
to get back.
Speaker 11 (27:48):
Into the game from down thirteen.
Speaker 12 (27:51):
So it just shows you they have the depth that
usually Tims doesn't use. And they also have other guys
that can score the ball when needed to.
Speaker 11 (28:01):
So I think they should look at that.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. You just pointed out
two things that are true. Brunson doesn't always elevate others,
and he's a poor defender. Halliburton's a better defender and
elevates everybody, but not as great as score. And I
think if you look at the knicks, they're a byproduct
of Brunson's game.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
You taught me this years ago. Your game is your game.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
If Brunson's your point guard, then you have to have
a catch and shoot shooter because he and you got
to have somebody that can be like a Klay Thompson
in his prime, somebody that can watch him and just
get it beating the ball in the corner and shoot.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
You can't have another.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
That's why Brunson and Luca did not work because they're
both ball centric, whereas Haliburton is the opposite he I mean,
he'll just go into distribution mode, pace and distribution mode
and for like eight minutes and you look up and
he hits maybe one three. So it's the Pacers have
had ten different players lead them in scoring this season. Siakam,
(28:55):
I think let him in scoring for the regular season.
Speaker 11 (28:57):
So I do think the.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Pacers are a product of Halliburton style.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
He's their quarterback, and the Knicks are a Brunson style,
and so you have to work from there. I want
to go to the other series. That's interesting, now there's two.
You know that depth can be overrated in the playoffs,
it can be a little overrated. Oklahoma City is the
only of the four teams left, Chris that you get
a literally different team on the road, one oh five
(29:25):
on the road, one twenty three at home. My take
is their youth, Their young players are not the same
playoff games. On the road, they look at times overwhelmed,
which gives me the thought that, oh, Minnesota's got a
heartbeat in this series.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Do you believe that today?
Speaker 11 (29:43):
Yeah? I think that's a great point.
Speaker 12 (29:44):
You know, I've been skeptical about okay See because of
their youth all season. Like you said, we all know,
role players don't typically play as well on the road,
and that's what you're pointing to. Minnesota absolutely has a
shot because they didn't just win games three.
Speaker 11 (30:00):
They made a statement college.
Speaker 12 (30:02):
Forty two points leading by forty five like that does
not happen to OKC. And this group, for OKAC has
been in the playoffs two years, all right. They've lost
seven games in those two years by a total of
forty nine points. They've only had two losses in their
playoff history. You know, this group where by double figures
(30:26):
and both of them were twelve points. So they have
never been beaten by more than twelve points until Saturday night.
So that is a mental statement that the Minnesota made.
Speaker 11 (30:38):
The Hey, we can impose our will on you.
Speaker 12 (30:41):
And the key for Minnesota is not to turn the
ball over, which they did in games one and two.
Speaker 11 (30:46):
They didn't do that in Game three.
Speaker 12 (30:48):
That didn't allow Okase to get out and score in transition.
And then you had Anthony Edwards and Julius Randall play
well together. That's the first time this series, tho you
have played well together in the same game. If they
can get that in game four, they can even up
this series. And then We really got something to look
(31:09):
forward to.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
All right, Chris Bruce, Sorry he's on after us. First
things first at the Indie five hundred the last Thursday
and Friday shows. As always, it was great to watch.
Speaker 11 (31:18):
Good see anybody, Thanks Colin see you know.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's interesting, j Mac, you place to play a lot
of basketball. I really think the Knicks and the two
things can be true. You can love a player like
Jalen Brunson and realize there are two liabilities with him.
He has to have the ball in his hands and
he's a poor defender, and those are both true. That's
why if you told me who would I take to
(31:43):
lead a franchise, I would take Halliburton because with a
new roster, construction and aprons, you don't get multiple stars,
meaning Halliburton.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Can give me twenty.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
He's not the closer, obviously, well, but he's a better
he's longer, he's a better defender, and he's a much
better distribution pace guy. And so it goes against what
everybody believes because in basketball, in our history, the closer
is the man. But the league has changed, right like
he used to be four years ago, Just get free closers,
(32:15):
get Durant Steph Klag get closers you win.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
You can't do that anymore. So the league is moving into.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
A direction of get you can have a closer, but
the perfect team is a I think this is why
I think now Indiana doesn't match up great with OKC.
But if you had to choose Halliburton or I think
ninety percent of fans would take Brunson over Halliburton. But
my take is defense matters in the playoffs. One's a
(32:43):
better distributor, one's a better score, but the other can score.
And I think the length of Halliburton in his herky
jerky style, I think he's just hard. So I again
as a tough because I know, but because of I mean,
as we're talking about Brunson, we acknowledge like you could
put anybody in the league. You could put with Halibert.
(33:04):
Any player would work, Jannis direct, any player. You could
not put Luca with Brunson. You're like, well, they both
need the ball, couldn't put you couldn't put Harden with Brunson.
Speaker 7 (33:15):
Got to I think the conference finals.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
In Dallas they didn't work.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I mean, they they scored, but they were both terrible defenders. Well, yes,
so you couldn't put Kyrie or Harden with Brunson.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
You couldn't. You couldn't put everybody with Halibert.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Well, the interesting thing with Brunson yesterday, and it's tough
for Knicks fans to.
Speaker 7 (33:36):
Talk about Colin. He was awful.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
He was terrible in that game. He sat out, I believe,
the first ten minutes of the fourth quarter when they
came back in a must win season on the line,
if he was on the bench, and to do that
without your start is a little weird.
Speaker 7 (33:51):
I don't care what to make of it. Maybe it's one.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Game, No, no, no, The two biggest runs by New York
have been when Brunson's on the bench. Yeah, the one
form period the Pacers went into the tank. Halliburton's on
the bench. So the answer is in front of you.
Get over your emotion. No, no, no, no, no, that's not debatable.
No no, no, it's not. It's two games. Brunson and
Cat can't be on the floorid again.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Okay, but it's the problem the counter and I'm gonna
defend my guy bruns In. Nick, don't sniff this round
without Brunson. Obviously, he's an elite point guard.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
They needed him. He's the most clutch player in the
league this year.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Kirk Cousins can win you a division, but he's a
liability for a championship. There is a ceiling with Brunson.
Small can't defend and has to have the ball.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
This is tough, and again people are not gonna want
to hear this.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Take the fan hat off. If you can't defend, for watching.
Speaker 7 (34:42):
The fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
They can't play Townsend Brunson in crunch time together because
they get annihilated.
Speaker 7 (34:48):
That's two terrible defenders.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
So who do you move off of if you replace
Towny with a great defender?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Can you keep? Can you still know it's easy? You're
you're talking yourself out of easy stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You keep brun He's the quarterback, but he is absolutely
as great as he is. He is a liability on
the defense end, so you can't play him with kat
si Akham and Halliburton are magic together. Just ask yourself this.
Everybody works with Mahomes, everybody. Not everybody works with Tua
(35:22):
because he can't throw a deep ball in bad weather.
Everybody works with Halliburton. He works with every player. Brunson
works with a guy that you couldn't play with Harden Kyrie.
He needs the ball, and you also have to put
him in a back court with guys that can defend,
because he doesn't, he'll get picked on.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
This sounds a little like early Steph Curry, specifically when
they lost in twenty sixteen, remembers, well, Curry can't defend guys.
Speaker 7 (35:51):
He led the league in steals.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
I know it.
Speaker 7 (35:53):
Steals don't matter.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Okay, that's not that no, but again you're answering your question.
What did the team have best defender in the league, Clay,
best guard defender in the league, and Andrea I Guidala.
So the Warriors acknowledged Steph's liability, so we went and
got Iggy off the bench, Clay. They had three elite defenders.
(36:15):
So that's what the Knicks the problem is. The Knicks
are like, we need the scoring with Brunson, but Cat's
a terrible defensive player. So that's why Indiana is gonna
win this series. Indiana is just going to be able
to Oh god, yeah, I mean it's it's sure. Yeah,
they're gonna win Game four.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Quick note, I saw somebody had called it up. Apparently
the Pacers have outshot their opponent in every playoff game
from three except the last game, where they were five
for twenty five last night. What if this has been
an incendiary run from deep. I think they're shooting forty
three in the playoffs and all of a sudden they
cooled down over the next few games.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
They're not gonna cool down. The teams are what your
game is your game. They'll get hot. They're at home
that they had an injury.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
I'm reaching baby, I need my knicks in the final.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, but it's it's hard for New York fan. It's like, well,
we couldn't be here without Brunson. Absolutely, But that means
you're a playoff team. Like there are certain players, like
they create stability, they create leadership.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Dak Prescott good enough to win a division, you put.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Him in a playoff, you're all of a sudden like, oh,
he's like the seventh best quarterback minimum in the playoff.
So Brunson provides a closer, He provides leadership, intelligence, work ethic.
But there are holes in the game, and they're just
ask yourself. When Lebron was in his prime, even ball centric,
Kyrie could play with him, Wade could play with him,
(37:37):
and Wade wasn't a great fit. Everybody could play with Lebron.
I would say Jason Well, No, Jason Tatum, he fits
on every team. Klay Thompson in his prime, he fit
on every team. D Wade played with Shack, he played
with Lebron, he played with Bosh, he played d Wade
could play with anybody. Players that need the ball in
their hands and slow down the offense can't play with everybody.
(38:01):
I'm telling you Halliburton is one of those six guys
in the league, now maybe there's four. You could put
him on every team in the league and the team
would be better if you put him on Minnesota, they're
the champs.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I think we need a top a new top ten
list best players in the league.
Speaker 7 (38:16):
Is hellib On in Brunson off.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
No, No, I'm saying you.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Could put Halliburton, Halliburton and Randall Gobert. Is the NBA
champ Indiana, maybe the NBA champ Oklahoma City. Halliburton to
SGA and that bench hallet. You put Brunson on Oklahoma City, Well,
you're taking.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
The ball at SGA's hands. Well good is that?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So? I mean again, I like Jalen Brunson, but Halliburton
is dude. He lubricates every team in the league. Tomorrow,
you're looking at a special player.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
We break it's the.
Speaker 8 (38:53):
Hurt to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in noononeaster,
not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
What do I think Chris Brusard in eighteen year NFL
bet Matt Hasselbeck for joining us on this Memorial Day Monday,
we talked a little bit about Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers
said a couple of different things as he was at
some public setting. A he's not going to play for
the Saints. He didn't want to live in Louisiana, showing
(39:28):
that like where he plays matters a lot. It's not
just about playing. He wants the right fit. That's why
Minnesota is interesting to a lot of people. Secondly, he
said he wouldn't be opposed to playing in Green Bay.
If they asked, he'd probably go. So it tells you
didn't have you know, he doesn't necessarily have to be
the starter. He's telling you, he's telling you he doesn't
need to play forever. We saw an earlier report where
(39:49):
he'd be willing to play for ten million dollars, So
it sounds like Aaron, he wants to get comfortable. He
would be comfortable, according to reports in Minnesota. He knows
the division. He acknowledged at this public event. He would
be comfortably being a backup in Green Bay. I mean
that those are Aaron's words, those are not mine. So
that's kind of a revelation that he would be willing
(40:09):
to go back to Green Bay. He said, if they asked,
I would go. That's kind of a game changer to me.
It shows me where his head's at, where he understands
New York was bumpy by saying, quote saying I'm not
going to play in New Orleans. I don't want to
live in Louisiana. He's telling you where he plays matter,
it matters. That's a huge.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Part of it.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
That's why the Pittsburgh thing never felt right to me.
Here's Hasselback earlier on Aaron's options.
Speaker 13 (40:35):
The quarterback free agency situation. When you're at the end
of your career, it's very similar to musical chairs. There's
only a certain amount of chairs when the music stops.
The music stops. And so I've been saying this for
a long time. I believe I said it on your show.
Aaron Rodgers is going to be with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
It needs to be mutual acceptance. And the music's about
(40:56):
to stop soon here and he's going to have to
sit down or get out.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
It just feels like it would just be.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
It would be better than the Jets season, but nothing
resembling his Green Bay career. It just I mean, I
think there are a six to seven win team with
their current quarterbacks, mostly on defense and coaching, they would
be an eight win team.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
If Aaron Rodgers show it, they.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Go from six to eight and you say, well, he's
much better than Will Howard. He's not younger, he's not cheaper,
he can be prickly, he doesn't want to necessary. We
don't know if it works with Arthur Smith. They don't
have the run game.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I know.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I think Nagie Harris is a big loss. I think
it's a big game for the Chargers. I think it'll
be a noticeable game loss for the Steelers. He won't
have the run game. I think the running back for
the Jets, Breeze Hall, is better than the current running
back situation for Pittsburgh. I think the Jets left tackle
situation today is better than the Steelers left tackle situation.
So I think Pittsburgh feels like a bunch of nonsense
(41:57):
and a really bumpy seven to eight team and the
risk of getting hurt again.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Hey, can I give you a name from your list
of four that I would swap in for Gino Smith, Deebo,
Samuel to.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Why I thought about that.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
I thought about that last year Terry McLaurin was bottled
up in a couple of games.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
They didn't have a counter punch, and I just wonder
Kingsbury's smart guy knows how the scheme dude's open. I
think Debo could be in for a super clutch year
because remember when when McLaurin was taken away, it was like, hey, Jayden,
make a play, just go run wild and get us
third or fourth down.
Speaker 7 (42:31):
Now you've got Deebo, who's a great yak guy.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
I think that's a huge, sneaky, big pickup from Washington.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
My only concern is Deebo can get dinged up because
of his style and so like, is he playing eleven
games if you told me today fourteen games?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yes? Eleven no?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
And it usually takes time to kind of work him
into like an offense. But I thought Debo was the
one that I thought, I mean, I think George Pickens
actually will help Dallas. I just think that my ceiling
is so low on they're over all roster and their
running back room, and they're like, all right, we're done. Uh.
First things first, around the corner. Matt Hasselback, Christ Brussard, J. Mack.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
We'll see you tomorrow
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Colin Cowherd
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