July 30, 2025 • 30 mins
Thoughts on Ben Johnson's comments on Caleb Williams' growth so far
What to expect from the Patriots this season
Guests: ERIC MANGINI, RICH OHRNBERGER
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
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number thirty thirty. Welcome back in to the Herd. I'm
Danny Parkins in for Colin. Soon you'll be able to
(00:48):
catch me on first things first, but you can always
catch this man.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
He is a staple of FtF.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Former NFL Coach of the Year Eric Mangini kind enough
to join us on the Herd. Coach, thank you very
much for the time. Looking forward to working with you
more closely soon.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, that's going to be fun.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It's good, it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
It's going to We can give Nick a hard time together.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh, it's one of my passions in life.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
It's become a passion of mine as well.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
It's fun fun.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
You know, the guy who says he's undefeated in sports arguments,
it's fun to kind of back him into a corner
and laugh at him. But help me out with these stories.
You know Terry mclaur and he was holding out but
then he's back. Trey Hendrickson holding out and then he's back.
You obviously would deal with this, but Hendrickson's the most
high profile one. Are you surprised at all on how
(01:42):
this has gone down between Hendrickson and the Bengals.
Speaker 6 (01:46):
I'm not completely surprised at all. And you were talking
about before the break the fifty thousand dollars fine, and
the difference for the fifty thousand dollars fine now versus
what it was before is that fine is not forgivable.
So when these guys are getting hit with that fifty
thousand dollars number, even when the deal is done, someone's
(02:06):
got to pay that number. So either the team's got
to compensate the player for the fifty thousand dollars per day.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
So look, if you go over the course of a month.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
It could be over a million dollars million and a
half dollars or the player's got to deal with that,
where previously, when you redid the contract, you could forgive
the fine. So those numbers are more meaningful.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
And with Hendrickson.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Hendrickson's situation, he signed the initial four year deal, and
then two years into that deal he wanted some more money,
so they gave him eight million dollars up front, they
gave another eight million dollars guaranteed, and they added a
year to his deal, which is this year right now,
which he's unhappy about. So I understand from an organization's perspective,
the organization's perspective that they don't want to have to
(02:47):
keep redoing deals. And I understand from Hendrickson's perspective too,
he's he has been outstanding, and he's been outstanding on
a team that is in desperate need of defensive players
that are outstanding. So he's got a lot of leverage
as well. So they've got to find some sort of
happy medium to give the team a chance to be successful.
(03:08):
And what's been in Cincinnati's biggest problem is is slow starts. Right,
slow starts have killed them. So if they don't get
Hendrickson back to the start of the season and he
doesn't play as well as he could, that could be that,
you know, part of another Cincinnati slow start and another
problematic finish of the season for him.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So in Dallas there's also a contract story, but frankly,
I find the contract stories a little tedious because.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
They ultimately they ultimately get.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Done and we're parsing millions of dollars for millionaires already.
But the big story in Dallas to me anyway, is
Brian Schottenheimer and where they go from there. Michael will
get done shot. He was on your staff, so you
know him. I was surprised that they hired someone who's
already with Mike McCarthy. What will the differences be between
(03:58):
Schottenheimer and McCarthy.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
You know, I think Brian is an underrated candidate. And
when I hired Brian, one of the things that I
really liked about him is not only was he smart
and had good relationships with players, but he was also flexible.
So he had a system that he ran that was
really had given us problems in New England that I
wanted to bring with me to the Jets. He was
(04:21):
willing to run that system, but he was willing to
incorporate other things into that system in order to make
it our system, in order to take advantage of the
players that we had. And I loved that flexibility that
he showed. And now, look, it's been quite a few
years since then, so he's learned a lot. He's got
a ton of experience, and he's a first time head coach,
(04:42):
just like all these first time head coaches are. But
I think he's got just as much potential to be
successful there as any other any of the other first
time head coaches.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I want to follow up on that.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I feel like I always hear coaches say I'm going
to build the system around my players, around the personnel
that we have.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
But then there are so many examples. And I'm a
Bears fan.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I saw it in Chicago, you know, Matt Naggy trying
to fit Justin Fields into his system was probably the
most prominent example of my fandom where it was very
clear that they weren't really building a system around the player.
They were trying to fit the player into their system.
Why is that so difficult for so many coaches to
actually do build a system around the talent that they have.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Well, when you're raised in a system, and when you've
had success in a system and you've seen it work
at a really high level, which most of these guys
who have gotten head coaching jobs that that's been the case.
And then you go to a new program and that's
your expertise. You tend to want to bring all those
good things and show the group, hey, this has real value,
(05:48):
which is which is great, which is which which over
time can work really well. But you also have to
understand that that and this is happening right now. A
lot Denny in training campuses, you go into a season
with who you want to be, and then the good
coaching staffs figure out who they need to be. That's
the difference between between good staffs and great sas is
(06:09):
knowing who you want to be and then realizing who
you need to be in order to be successful that year.
And you have to you have to have enough humbleness
and openness to say this isn't going to work right now.
It's it's not that it's bad, it's just not good
for us right now. And what's best for the player
(06:30):
is that we do X, Y and Z that he's
really good at And when I brought Brett Favre into
New York, I wasn't going to try to run our
system that didn't fit Brett Farv. I was going to
do the things that Brett Farv did really well to
make sure he was the best version of himself. And
you saw that in Tampa Bay with Tom Brady. Initially
they were doing, you know, they weren't doing what Tom
(06:51):
did really well. When they pivoted towards what Tom did
really well and ended up bringing to the super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
And it's the same thing with young players too.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
You just got to you gotta be able to take
a step back and say, hey, this is good.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
It's just not good for us right now.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
The best thing is what's good for this player who's
leading us.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
Hey we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber, list lame and me.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 8 (07:46):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 7 (08:00):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promise and also uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 9 (08:06):
A little harder.
Speaker 7 (08:07):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 8 (08:10):
There you go, over promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I think one of the most fascinating stories in the
NFL this year is Travis Hunter because of what Jacksonville
is trying to do with him, and they are saying,
we're not only gonna try it, we're gonna do it.
We're gonna play this guy on both sides.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Of the ball.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
At camp so far, he's split in terms of first
team reps on offense and defense.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
It's been fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And coming up they're gonna do the first practice where
he does both in the same day. How would you
manage an athlete like that as a coach.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Yeah, So in New England, we had Troy Brown, the
different athlete he had played. I think he was in
his eleventh year as a wide receiver and never played
on defense and pro football, But we worked in a
camp and he ended up playing on d defense as
well as offense, and that year he played more defensive
snaps than offensive snaps. But my approach with Travis Hunter,
and I think what would be most efficient is start
(09:11):
him on defense. Let him play full time on defense,
because you can't guarantee what the other team's offense is
going to do. So let's say you want to have
him in dime defense. Then they come out and they're
playing a bunch of things where you're gonna have to
play more dime than you wanted to, and he's got
to play more refs.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
You don't have control.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
But if you start him on defense, he's playing full
time there, and then you play him situationally offensively. That
to me is the best approach to it because you
control when he goes in. So playman on third down,
play him in the red zone, and play him in
two minute on offense, and play him full time on
defense and control what you can control with the athlete
(09:51):
and give him the best chance to maximize his talents
and impact on both sides.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
How many guys do you think are going to be
raising their hands and being like I can.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Do it too.
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, Look, there's a lot of guys who believe
they can do it. And even with Travis, the difference
is every athlete he faces is good, and even the
guys that are considered not great in the NFL are
probably on the highest end of the guys he faced
while he was at Colorado. So to go down in
and down out against the best athletes that he's faced,
(10:24):
it's hard to do. And we're not talking about twelve games.
We're talking about seventeen games and that doesn't even account
for the preseason. That doesn't account for how much longer
the season is, That doesn't account for how much bigger
the playbook is on offense, how much bigger the playbook
is on defense. And as much as he wants to
do this organizationally, they're going to have to protect him
from himself because the wear and tear is a big thing.
(10:48):
And they want him all season long, and they want
him to have a very long, productive career. So I
hope they don't burn him out here too early and
they let this build a at a rate that's sustainable.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
So we're gonna be working together a lot more on
first things first. And so you've been exposed to Nick
Wright's lists, and so now I want to show you
a perfect list for a change.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I just felt like i'd help you out a little bit.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Finally I'm going to get a perfect list exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I see no flaws in my top ten quarterback list.
Coach Eagles fans seem to have a lot of problems
with it, but I'm curious. Mahomes one, Herbert five, Baker nine,
Jalen Hurts ten.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
It looks perfect to me. What say you?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Okay? So looking at this as.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
I absolutely agree with Mahomes at one. I think your two, three,
four are completely interchangeable. I think if you put those
three players up and said to all thirty two teams
you can draft any one of these three players, it
would probably be split, you know, in thirds in terms
of who guys would want based off of the system
they had or which way they were leaning towards. So
(11:54):
those guys are to me interchangeable.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, there's a clear love for there's a there's a
clear too for. The debate is five through ten.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
Yeah, so even even five through ten, I would I
went Jaydeen Daniels at five, and I know, you know,
we're going into the sophomore year and there could be
the sophomore slump and people are going to catch up.
I do think that the difference is not only what
he did as a runner, but his accuracy. To me,
(12:24):
would I would push him to that five spot, with
Stafford being my slash there Stafford and Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
I love Stafford.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
The fact that he won the Super Bowl, I played
against coach against it for a long time caused problems.
But his age to me bumps him to six. And
then after that I get to Justin Herbert where he is.
I struggle with his performance in the playoffs. That's why
I think you gotta bump Jalen Hurts. You got to
give him credit for what he's done in the biggest moments,
(12:55):
so I'd probably bump him up, and he and Justin
are kind of in that next area. And then with
Jared and Baker, I mean, it just depends on what
you like. I mean, I'm a little.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Hot problems coach.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I'll take it.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I'll take it it is. I don't love six and seven.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I'm more five and six, Justin, Justin, Jared, Baker, they're
kind of a group. And then Jay, I get why
you have Jalen at ten, but you do have to.
I think you got a great amount of curve based
off of performance in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
He's been unbelievable in the playoffs. The Steelers are such
a fascinating team for a number of reasons. I actually
like the moves they made in a vacuum for this year.
There's huge questions about the long term ramifications, but I
thought that they made sense. My question is, let's say
I'm wrong, and let's say this goes poorly and it
is a seven win season, first losing season under Mike Tomlin,
(13:57):
and we're now at nine going on ten years without
a playoff win, and there's a handful of offensive coordinators
and a bunch of different quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Is there anything that could actually turn.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Up a hot seat on a guy like Mike Tomlin
given that Pittsburgh has had three coaches in the history
of their organization.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
I don't think there should be. I'm a huge Mike
Tomlin fan. And what people forget is how hard it
is to deal with transitioning after a great quarterback. So
Bill Belichick after a great quarterback, not very good, right,
Sean Payton without Drew Brees. Pretty different equation than what
(14:36):
we were used to seeing.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
And it's the same thing. No Ben Brothlisberger, and.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
They haven't had the losing season, which to me is remarkable,
but they haven't found their answer at quarterback. And finding
that answer a quarterback, everybody's chasing it. And that's why
when these great quarterbacks become available, all the teams that
are quarterbacks starved, they go and see if they can
they can hit on them. So whether it's Aaron Rodgers
(15:03):
at the Jets and now Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh or
you know, take your pick. It was us with with
Brett Favre trying to capture some of that magic Russell
Wilson when he got traded. It's you're you're hoping that
this is the answer. You're hoping that Aaron Rodgers is over,
you know, wanting to be GM, wanting to be head coach,
(15:25):
and now just wants to be a great player and
a great teammate and a great contributor.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Maybe it's not the level we've been.
Speaker 6 (15:32):
Used to to seeing him at his high point, but
hopefully it's a better level than we've seen him since
since he's left Green Bay Football.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Season's here, coach. This feels good. It feels good to
have hype. It feels good to have like we got
a game on Thursday. Are you a play for guys
in the preseason guy or are you, you know, risk
averse like me, I'm scared of injury.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Yeah, it's it's this is always the challenging part. So
it's it's this time of the year figuring out whether
you want to play your stars or not. And then
then it's at the end of the season when you've
made the playoffs and you're trying to figure out whether
you want to play your stars or not, and it's
always the what is it Russ versus rest philosophy, And
(16:15):
I think you want to get some reps for your
guys and have them feel what it's like to work together,
even if it's a limited exposure, so that the first
time they're seeing action isn't in game one. But you know,
I understand why a lot of head coaches say, yeah,
I'd rather him be rusty and available than hurt and
(16:38):
not available.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Eric Mangini, Fox Sports NFL analyst, former Coach of the Year,
looking forward to working with you on FtF and we'll
be watching later on today.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Thank you, coach.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Awesome, we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
That's Eric Mangini going around the NFL with him, and
we'll be watching. Like I said on first Things first,
Drake mayhype.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
It's real.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I feel like I own all the stock and that
kid loved him. I'm out of college. Penn State also
expectations for a title run. We'll ask about that with
former Patriot and Penn State star Rich Ornberger. Next, Danny
Parkinson for Colin the Herd.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Easter not a Empacific back in on the Herd.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin football is fast approaching.
We've got Rich Ornberger on the show. He was a
fourth round pick of the Patriots, played his college ball
at Penn State, and he's got a radio show. This
is a radio show name Big Rich, TD and Fletch.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I love it on one oh five KGB in San Diego.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Rich, thank you so much for the time. So Patriots
draft pick, Let's start there. Drake made to me passes
the eye test.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
I love them.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Coming out of college, he had no talent around him.
He had a real tough offensive line situation. Obviously they
fired the coach. What type of trajectory do you think
Drake May is on right now?
Speaker 10 (18:12):
Look, I mean anytime you switch coaches earlier in your career,
I can hamper your development. Drake May is a gamer though.
I got to call his holiday ball game in San Diego.
Speaker 9 (18:27):
And I was impressed with this guy.
Speaker 10 (18:30):
I mean, he was the best player on the field
in my opinion, and he stood in good company that night.
Drake May, he can make all the throws. He is
a good enough athlete to play in this league. It's
just a matter of how plastic his mind is, how
quickly he can switch from one set of coaches and
one set of you.
Speaker 9 (18:48):
Know, cultural orders to the next.
Speaker 10 (18:51):
Look, one thing we know is Mike Rabel has gotten
more out of lesser quarterbacks than Drake May. You know,
so in theory, this sets up well for him. Plus
they're making an investment in protecting him better on the
offensive line. Plus you know, Vrabel's going to be committed
to the run game first and playing staunch defense, and
that's a talented defense on the other side of the ball,
(19:13):
so he'll get second chance opportunities.
Speaker 9 (19:15):
That defense will get him the ball back.
Speaker 10 (19:18):
So I think the trajectory, the path that he could
be on is one for success, and it may be
quick success for the New England Patriots.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
That's an interesting way to put it, the how plastic
his mind is and changing the coaches early.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I never heard it put quite that way.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I mean, so it applies to Drake May, it applies,
it applies to Caleb.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
How do you tell if it's going well?
Speaker 10 (19:41):
Really, it's like learning a different language, right, So, Okay,
so you've been around people who are quick studies at languages, right.
You know, they seem to just understand how to immerse
themselves into cultures. They pick up context clues really well.
They're able to relate things back to their language of
origin and quickly avoid mistakes. And that is going to
(20:04):
be the real test here. It's not whether or not
Drake May knows football. We know he knows football. That's
the reason why he was drafted. The question is how
quickly can he change languages? And so when I say
a plastic mind, I just mean somebody who is easily
moldable and can fit into a new system running a
new language, and language is key in a football program.
(20:27):
Everything has to be communicated and it all starts with
the quarterbacks. So that is going to be the biggest
hurdle this training camp for Drake May, but overall the
New England Patriots, and especially on the offensive side of
the ball.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
So if you're doing radio in San Diego, you're still
talking to a lot of Chargers fans, even though they're
in Los Angeles. I'm a huge Justin Herbert fan. I
feel like he'd been let down by the franchise that
hadn't really been living up to his talent. Coach Harboff
spoke to that earlier in the week. He's followed a
Peyton Manning track similar when loss is similar, touchdown numbers,
(21:01):
no playoff wins. In his first five years, Peyton broke out.
He got Dungee in your five, breaks out in your six,
is co MVP and is in the AFC Championship game.
I think he's on that trajectory. Also, what of the
struggles I guess of Justin Herbert? Have you put on
Justin Herbert to this point in his career?
Speaker 9 (21:20):
Self preservation?
Speaker 10 (21:22):
It is really difficult to teach this to a competitor,
But Justin Herbert needs to know when the battle's lost.
And I know that sounds counterintuitive, especially in a sport
as competitive it's football, But he has to understand when
a play is dead, when it's time to fall on
your sword and take the sack. There are smart sacks
to take. There are good opportunities to get rid of
(21:45):
the football. Not every play needs to turn into a
dynamic first down, or an effort at a first down,
or an effort at a touchdown. Sometimes the smart choice
is to play chess, not checkers. Look, I get it,
King me is fun. You know what's more fun? You
know trapping? You know the King with Knight at E one. Look,
(22:06):
I don't know chess, but I do know football, and
I do know that he's struggling a little bit protecting
himself in games. So yeah, Look, he hasn't been surrounded
by the best talent, the best coaching, the best skill
at times. Certainly the offensive line has had its issues,
injury being one of them. But he needs to really,
(22:27):
Jim Harbaugh really needs to hammer home the point that
they are not going to win many football games without
Justin Herbert in the huddles. So he needs to start
taking care of himself better.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
So, speaking of great athletes, they all are you were,
Travis Hunter is an extra great athlete, and I think
he is going to change the way we view what
these athletes can do. They're clearly going to play him
two ways. He clearly wants to play two ways. What
is reasonable to expect from Travis Hunter as an NFL player?
Speaker 10 (23:01):
Travis Hunter is going to be better at one of
these positions than the other. This isn't college football anymore.
These are trained professionals who have been at this for
a very long time, and They're going to be fits
and starts with every career, even for.
Speaker 9 (23:16):
The most talented.
Speaker 10 (23:18):
But when you are trying to understand the nuance of
two different sides of the ball, when the bright lights
around in the NFL and you're not playing against guys
who are you know, in certain cases in.
Speaker 9 (23:31):
College football, playing college football for.
Speaker 10 (23:33):
The first time since high school and still miss their
mom and dad. You know, they're only divorced by twelve
months from being grounded for the last time. You know,
these guys you're playing against and preparing for, they've been
in the league for twelve years sometimes and have been
catching passes against defensive backs at an.
Speaker 9 (23:50):
All pro level for five to eight years. You know.
Speaker 10 (23:54):
So Travis Hunter is going to face those challenges as
a defensive back in the NFL, and then you turn
it over to the offense. The hits are harder, the
windows are tighter, the timing is faster.
Speaker 9 (24:05):
So he is going to.
Speaker 10 (24:07):
Struggle at times. He is going to have successes, obviously,
because again this is why you draft a guy in
the first round, because you're counting on that. But I
think what we're going to see it's going to be
pretty obvious. Witch side of the ball he's more comfortable playing,
and then there may be a conversation and it could
come as soon as.
Speaker 9 (24:25):
The halfway point of this season.
Speaker 10 (24:27):
Do we abandon this idea first that we had that
could be game changing, or do we stick with it
and potentially you have a guy who is above average
on both sides of the ball as opposed to having
a guy who's elite on one side of the ball.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So you've been in locker rooms, You've been around guys
who made a ton of money, and I'm sure you
were around the guys who had issues with not making
enough money. It's a story in Washington, it's history in Cincinnati.
It's the biggest story in Dallas, so we can put
it there, but also just to globalize it. How big
of a deal ultimately is it? If player is unhappy
(25:06):
with contract, like saying Micah Parsons is unhappy with the
Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 9 (25:11):
It's a problem until it isn't a problem anymore. You know.
Speaker 10 (25:15):
Look, the business side of this game is a really
important side of this game. You have a short window
to make life changing money, and Micah Parsons deserves life
changing money because he is a franchise shafting player.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
So he's going to get his. He's going to make.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
Every attempt at getting his, and Jerry Jones is going
to do Jerry Jones things.
Speaker 9 (25:37):
And we're seeing a lot of that.
Speaker 10 (25:38):
I know you're following it closely, Danny, but as ugly
as it can get.
Speaker 9 (25:43):
Sometimes. One thing that all.
Speaker 10 (25:45):
Football players, especially football players as talented as Michael Parsons do,
is compartmentalize. Whatever's happening in your personal life or your
business career, you have to separate and be able to
go out and perform. He's been doing that an elite
level for a long time now, and my expectation is,
regardless of how sour or dour these negotiations go, regardless
(26:10):
of how long they take, as soon as he hits
the field, he's gonna get right back where he left off.
And the suer the better, because obviously you want your
defense to congeal. You want there to be some suredness
in terms of working together with all the guys on
the fields, playing their roles at practice and in whatever
preseason action they see during the actual games. But yeah,
(26:34):
you know, just speaking broadly about talented football players like
Micah Parsons, once he's through the rigors of the negotiation.
He's going to get back to doing what he loves
and what he's great at, which is sacking quarterbacks and
making impactful plays on the defense.
Speaker 9 (26:50):
Or the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
He went to Penn State.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
You went to Penn State, same level of athlete, saying,
you know, and obviously there's no question about that. Do
you believe that Penn State deserves to be the favorite
in the Big Ten this year?
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I do.
Speaker 10 (27:10):
I do a return a tremendous amount of talent. I
have a quarterback who's worthy of carrying that weight, who's
made clutch plays and has made mistakes. I mean, we
are reminded every time the replays of that Notre Dame
game come over there. He obviously has things to clean up.
But great players make mistakes and learn from them. And
(27:33):
that's part of being great is not repeating, you know,
those confounding moments that can really hurt your team in
the moments that matter the most. And you know, in
terms of coaching and culture, I think I think would
coach James Franklin has done with Penn State has been
(27:54):
nothing short of miraculous. I mean, if you think about
where this program was when he first took over, you know,
it was only one coach separated from the scandal and
the exit of Joe Paterno, and a rebuild was still
in order, and he ushered Penn State football through that
(28:15):
era into a new era of success and arguably the
most successful window that they've ever enjoyed. So I believe
fullheartedly that this team can win the Big Ten. If
I'm not the first to say it, I believe they
will win the Big Ten. They do need to perform
in the big moments, and that is going to be
(28:35):
the biggest task of this season. We know they can win,
we know they can win at a great rate. But
can they win in those big moments. That has yet
to be answered, and that is the question they must answer,
and I think they will this season.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Then quickly, do you think Aler's a good pro like
you see a good pro prospect?
Speaker 9 (28:52):
He does.
Speaker 10 (28:52):
He does translate well to the pro game, just size
and athleticism, kind of the same way we were just
talking about Drake May good enough athlete, can make the throws,
has shown great composure in moments. Obviously, there's always work
to be done, but one thing that you love to
see out of a player in terms of whether or
not he can hack it at the next level. Is
(29:14):
anticipatory throws and he's good there. You know, he gets
the timing down with this receivers, he finds the windows.
He's clearly reading defenses. He's no dummy. I think he'll
be a good pro one day. But he's got his
work cut out this season. He's got a lot of
work to do ahead of him. Still in college football.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
For Penn State and Ntney Lyon, former draft pick of
the Patriots, played six years in the NFL. Rich Ornberger,
thank you so much for taking time for the Herd.
Speaker 9 (29:39):
Thank you, rich Glad to do it, Danny anytime.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
We'll talk again soon. That's rich Ornberger here with us
on the Herd. And yeah, we are one month away
from Ohio State and Texas. Some of the best players,
the best draft prospects downs Jeremiah Smith and yes, arch
Manning trying to live up to abs polutely impossible hype. Hey,
you've thrown ninety five passes in college football. You're the
(30:04):
favorite for the Heisman Trophy and the second favorite to
be the national champion, and people think you're gonna be
the number one overall pick.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
No big deal. It's been a tremendous honor.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's a ton of fun whenever I get to sit
in for Colin Coward. Thank you so much for listening
and watching the Herd
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
The home you've worked so hard for is ready to
work hard for you with a home equity loan from
Rocket Mortgage. To learn how you can turn your home's
equity into cash, visit Rocket Mortgage dot com today. Rocket Mortgage,
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number thirty thirty. Welcome back in to the Herd. I'm
Danny Parkins in for Colin. Soon you'll be able to
(00:48):
catch me on first things first, but you can always
catch this man.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
He is a staple of FtF.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Former NFL Coach of the Year Eric Mangini kind enough
to join us on the Herd. Coach, thank you very
much for the time. Looking forward to working with you
more closely soon.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, that's going to be fun.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It's good, it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
It's going to We can give Nick a hard time together.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Oh, it's one of my passions in life.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
It's become a passion of mine as well.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
It's fun fun.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
You know, the guy who says he's undefeated in sports arguments,
it's fun to kind of back him into a corner
and laugh at him. But help me out with these stories.
You know Terry mclaur and he was holding out but
then he's back. Trey Hendrickson holding out and then he's back.
You obviously would deal with this, but Hendrickson's the most
high profile one. Are you surprised at all on how
(01:42):
this has gone down between Hendrickson and the Bengals.
Speaker 6 (01:46):
I'm not completely surprised at all. And you were talking
about before the break the fifty thousand dollars fine, and
the difference for the fifty thousand dollars fine now versus
what it was before is that fine is not forgivable.
So when these guys are getting hit with that fifty
thousand dollars number, even when the deal is done, someone's
(02:06):
got to pay that number. So either the team's got
to compensate the player for the fifty thousand dollars per day.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
So look, if you go over the course of a month.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
It could be over a million dollars million and a
half dollars or the player's got to deal with that,
where previously, when you redid the contract, you could forgive
the fine. So those numbers are more meaningful.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
And with Hendrickson.
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Hendrickson's situation, he signed the initial four year deal, and
then two years into that deal he wanted some more money,
so they gave him eight million dollars up front, they
gave another eight million dollars guaranteed, and they added a
year to his deal, which is this year right now,
which he's unhappy about. So I understand from an organization's perspective,
the organization's perspective that they don't want to have to
(02:47):
keep redoing deals. And I understand from Hendrickson's perspective too,
he's he has been outstanding, and he's been outstanding on
a team that is in desperate need of defensive players
that are outstanding. So he's got a lot of leverage
as well. So they've got to find some sort of
happy medium to give the team a chance to be successful.
(03:08):
And what's been in Cincinnati's biggest problem is is slow starts. Right,
slow starts have killed them. So if they don't get
Hendrickson back to the start of the season and he
doesn't play as well as he could, that could be that,
you know, part of another Cincinnati slow start and another
problematic finish of the season for him.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So in Dallas there's also a contract story, but frankly,
I find the contract stories a little tedious because.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
They ultimately they ultimately get.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Done and we're parsing millions of dollars for millionaires already.
But the big story in Dallas to me anyway, is
Brian Schottenheimer and where they go from there. Michael will
get done shot. He was on your staff, so you
know him. I was surprised that they hired someone who's
already with Mike McCarthy. What will the differences be between
(03:58):
Schottenheimer and McCarthy.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
You know, I think Brian is an underrated candidate. And
when I hired Brian, one of the things that I
really liked about him is not only was he smart
and had good relationships with players, but he was also flexible.
So he had a system that he ran that was
really had given us problems in New England that I
wanted to bring with me to the Jets. He was
(04:21):
willing to run that system, but he was willing to
incorporate other things into that system in order to make
it our system, in order to take advantage of the
players that we had. And I loved that flexibility that
he showed. And now, look, it's been quite a few
years since then, so he's learned a lot. He's got
a ton of experience, and he's a first time head coach,
(04:42):
just like all these first time head coaches are. But
I think he's got just as much potential to be
successful there as any other any of the other first
time head coaches.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I want to follow up on that.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I feel like I always hear coaches say I'm going
to build the system around my players, around the personnel
that we have.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
But then there are so many examples. And I'm a
Bears fan.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I saw it in Chicago, you know, Matt Naggy trying
to fit Justin Fields into his system was probably the
most prominent example of my fandom where it was very
clear that they weren't really building a system around the player.
They were trying to fit the player into their system.
Why is that so difficult for so many coaches to
actually do build a system around the talent that they have.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Well, when you're raised in a system, and when you've
had success in a system and you've seen it work
at a really high level, which most of these guys
who have gotten head coaching jobs that that's been the case.
And then you go to a new program and that's
your expertise. You tend to want to bring all those
good things and show the group, hey, this has real value,
(05:48):
which is which is great, which is which which over
time can work really well. But you also have to
understand that that and this is happening right now. A
lot Denny in training campuses, you go into a season
with who you want to be, and then the good
coaching staffs figure out who they need to be. That's
the difference between between good staffs and great sas is
(06:09):
knowing who you want to be and then realizing who
you need to be in order to be successful that year.
And you have to you have to have enough humbleness
and openness to say this isn't going to work right now.
It's it's not that it's bad, it's just not good
for us right now. And what's best for the player
(06:30):
is that we do X, Y and Z that he's
really good at And when I brought Brett Favre into
New York, I wasn't going to try to run our
system that didn't fit Brett Farv. I was going to
do the things that Brett Farv did really well to
make sure he was the best version of himself. And
you saw that in Tampa Bay with Tom Brady. Initially
they were doing, you know, they weren't doing what Tom
(06:51):
did really well. When they pivoted towards what Tom did
really well and ended up bringing to the super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
And it's the same thing with young players too.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
You just got to you gotta be able to take
a step back and say, hey, this is good.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
It's just not good for us right now.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
The best thing is what's good for this player who's
leading us.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
Hey we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber, list lame and me.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 8 (07:46):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 7 (08:00):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promise and also uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 9 (08:06):
A little harder.
Speaker 7 (08:07):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 8 (08:10):
There you go, over promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I think one of the most fascinating stories in the
NFL this year is Travis Hunter because of what Jacksonville
is trying to do with him, and they are saying,
we're not only gonna try it, we're gonna do it.
We're gonna play this guy on both sides.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Of the ball.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
At camp so far, he's split in terms of first
team reps on offense and defense.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
It's been fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And coming up they're gonna do the first practice where
he does both in the same day. How would you
manage an athlete like that as a coach.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Yeah, So in New England, we had Troy Brown, the
different athlete he had played. I think he was in
his eleventh year as a wide receiver and never played
on defense and pro football, But we worked in a
camp and he ended up playing on d defense as
well as offense, and that year he played more defensive
snaps than offensive snaps. But my approach with Travis Hunter,
and I think what would be most efficient is start
(09:11):
him on defense. Let him play full time on defense,
because you can't guarantee what the other team's offense is
going to do. So let's say you want to have
him in dime defense. Then they come out and they're
playing a bunch of things where you're gonna have to
play more dime than you wanted to, and he's got
to play more refs.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
You don't have control.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
But if you start him on defense, he's playing full
time there, and then you play him situationally offensively. That
to me is the best approach to it because you
control when he goes in. So playman on third down,
play him in the red zone, and play him in
two minute on offense, and play him full time on
defense and control what you can control with the athlete
(09:51):
and give him the best chance to maximize his talents
and impact on both sides.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
How many guys do you think are going to be
raising their hands and being like I can.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Do it too.
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, Look, there's a lot of guys who believe
they can do it. And even with Travis, the difference
is every athlete he faces is good, and even the
guys that are considered not great in the NFL are
probably on the highest end of the guys he faced
while he was at Colorado. So to go down in
and down out against the best athletes that he's faced,
(10:24):
it's hard to do. And we're not talking about twelve games.
We're talking about seventeen games and that doesn't even account
for the preseason. That doesn't account for how much longer
the season is, That doesn't account for how much bigger
the playbook is on offense, how much bigger the playbook
is on defense. And as much as he wants to
do this organizationally, they're going to have to protect him
from himself because the wear and tear is a big thing.
(10:48):
And they want him all season long, and they want
him to have a very long, productive career. So I
hope they don't burn him out here too early and
they let this build a at a rate that's sustainable.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
So we're gonna be working together a lot more on
first things first. And so you've been exposed to Nick
Wright's lists, and so now I want to show you
a perfect list for a change.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I just felt like i'd help you out a little bit.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Finally I'm going to get a perfect list exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I see no flaws in my top ten quarterback list.
Coach Eagles fans seem to have a lot of problems
with it, but I'm curious. Mahomes one, Herbert five, Baker nine,
Jalen Hurts ten.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
It looks perfect to me. What say you?
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Okay? So looking at this as.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
I absolutely agree with Mahomes at one. I think your two, three,
four are completely interchangeable. I think if you put those
three players up and said to all thirty two teams
you can draft any one of these three players, it
would probably be split, you know, in thirds in terms
of who guys would want based off of the system
they had or which way they were leaning towards. So
(11:54):
those guys are to me interchangeable.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, there's a clear love for there's a there's a
clear too for. The debate is five through ten.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
Yeah, so even even five through ten, I would I
went Jaydeen Daniels at five, and I know, you know,
we're going into the sophomore year and there could be
the sophomore slump and people are going to catch up.
I do think that the difference is not only what
he did as a runner, but his accuracy. To me,
(12:24):
would I would push him to that five spot, with
Stafford being my slash there Stafford and Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
I love Stafford.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
The fact that he won the Super Bowl, I played
against coach against it for a long time caused problems.
But his age to me bumps him to six. And
then after that I get to Justin Herbert where he is.
I struggle with his performance in the playoffs. That's why
I think you gotta bump Jalen Hurts. You got to
give him credit for what he's done in the biggest moments,
(12:55):
so I'd probably bump him up, and he and Justin
are kind of in that next area. And then with
Jared and Baker, I mean, it just depends on what
you like. I mean, I'm a little.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Hot problems coach.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I'll take it.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I'll take it it is. I don't love six and seven.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I'm more five and six, Justin, Justin, Jared, Baker, they're
kind of a group. And then Jay, I get why
you have Jalen at ten, but you do have to.
I think you got a great amount of curve based
off of performance in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
He's been unbelievable in the playoffs. The Steelers are such
a fascinating team for a number of reasons. I actually
like the moves they made in a vacuum for this year.
There's huge questions about the long term ramifications, but I
thought that they made sense. My question is, let's say
I'm wrong, and let's say this goes poorly and it
is a seven win season, first losing season under Mike Tomlin,
(13:57):
and we're now at nine going on ten years without
a playoff win, and there's a handful of offensive coordinators
and a bunch of different quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Is there anything that could actually turn.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Up a hot seat on a guy like Mike Tomlin
given that Pittsburgh has had three coaches in the history
of their organization.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
I don't think there should be. I'm a huge Mike
Tomlin fan. And what people forget is how hard it
is to deal with transitioning after a great quarterback. So
Bill Belichick after a great quarterback, not very good, right,
Sean Payton without Drew Brees. Pretty different equation than what
(14:36):
we were used to seeing.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
And it's the same thing. No Ben Brothlisberger, and.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
They haven't had the losing season, which to me is remarkable,
but they haven't found their answer at quarterback. And finding
that answer a quarterback, everybody's chasing it. And that's why
when these great quarterbacks become available, all the teams that
are quarterbacks starved, they go and see if they can
they can hit on them. So whether it's Aaron Rodgers
(15:03):
at the Jets and now Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh or
you know, take your pick. It was us with with
Brett Favre trying to capture some of that magic Russell
Wilson when he got traded. It's you're you're hoping that
this is the answer. You're hoping that Aaron Rodgers is over,
you know, wanting to be GM, wanting to be head coach,
(15:25):
and now just wants to be a great player and
a great teammate and a great contributor.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Maybe it's not the level we've been.
Speaker 6 (15:32):
Used to to seeing him at his high point, but
hopefully it's a better level than we've seen him since
since he's left Green Bay Football.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Season's here, coach. This feels good. It feels good to
have hype. It feels good to have like we got
a game on Thursday. Are you a play for guys
in the preseason guy or are you, you know, risk
averse like me, I'm scared of injury.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Yeah, it's it's this is always the challenging part. So
it's it's this time of the year figuring out whether
you want to play your stars or not. And then
then it's at the end of the season when you've
made the playoffs and you're trying to figure out whether
you want to play your stars or not, and it's
always the what is it Russ versus rest philosophy, And
(16:15):
I think you want to get some reps for your
guys and have them feel what it's like to work together,
even if it's a limited exposure, so that the first
time they're seeing action isn't in game one. But you know,
I understand why a lot of head coaches say, yeah,
I'd rather him be rusty and available than hurt and
(16:38):
not available.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Eric Mangini, Fox Sports NFL analyst, former Coach of the Year,
looking forward to working with you on FtF and we'll
be watching later on today.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Thank you, coach.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Awesome, we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
That's Eric Mangini going around the NFL with him, and
we'll be watching. Like I said on first Things first,
Drake mayhype.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
It's real.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I feel like I own all the stock and that
kid loved him. I'm out of college. Penn State also
expectations for a title run. We'll ask about that with
former Patriot and Penn State star Rich Ornberger. Next, Danny
Parkinson for Colin the Herd.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Easter not a Empacific back in on the Herd.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin football is fast approaching.
We've got Rich Ornberger on the show. He was a
fourth round pick of the Patriots, played his college ball
at Penn State, and he's got a radio show. This
is a radio show name Big Rich, TD and Fletch.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I love it on one oh five KGB in San Diego.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Rich, thank you so much for the time. So Patriots
draft pick, Let's start there. Drake made to me passes
the eye test.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
I love them.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Coming out of college, he had no talent around him.
He had a real tough offensive line situation. Obviously they
fired the coach. What type of trajectory do you think
Drake May is on right now?
Speaker 10 (18:12):
Look, I mean anytime you switch coaches earlier in your career,
I can hamper your development. Drake May is a gamer though.
I got to call his holiday ball game in San Diego.
Speaker 9 (18:27):
And I was impressed with this guy.
Speaker 10 (18:30):
I mean, he was the best player on the field
in my opinion, and he stood in good company that night.
Drake May, he can make all the throws. He is
a good enough athlete to play in this league. It's
just a matter of how plastic his mind is, how
quickly he can switch from one set of coaches and
one set of you.
Speaker 9 (18:48):
Know, cultural orders to the next.
Speaker 10 (18:51):
Look, one thing we know is Mike Rabel has gotten
more out of lesser quarterbacks than Drake May. You know,
so in theory, this sets up well for him. Plus
they're making an investment in protecting him better on the
offensive line. Plus you know, Vrabel's going to be committed
to the run game first and playing staunch defense, and
that's a talented defense on the other side of the ball,
(19:13):
so he'll get second chance opportunities.
Speaker 9 (19:15):
That defense will get him the ball back.
Speaker 10 (19:18):
So I think the trajectory, the path that he could
be on is one for success, and it may be
quick success for the New England Patriots.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
That's an interesting way to put it, the how plastic
his mind is and changing the coaches early.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I never heard it put quite that way.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I mean, so it applies to Drake May, it applies,
it applies to Caleb.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
How do you tell if it's going well?
Speaker 10 (19:41):
Really, it's like learning a different language, right, So, Okay,
so you've been around people who are quick studies at languages, right.
You know, they seem to just understand how to immerse
themselves into cultures. They pick up context clues really well.
They're able to relate things back to their language of
origin and quickly avoid mistakes. And that is going to
(20:04):
be the real test here. It's not whether or not
Drake May knows football. We know he knows football. That's
the reason why he was drafted. The question is how
quickly can he change languages? And so when I say
a plastic mind, I just mean somebody who is easily
moldable and can fit into a new system running a
new language, and language is key in a football program.
(20:27):
Everything has to be communicated and it all starts with
the quarterbacks. So that is going to be the biggest
hurdle this training camp for Drake May, but overall the
New England Patriots, and especially on the offensive side of
the ball.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
So if you're doing radio in San Diego, you're still
talking to a lot of Chargers fans, even though they're
in Los Angeles. I'm a huge Justin Herbert fan. I
feel like he'd been let down by the franchise that
hadn't really been living up to his talent. Coach Harboff
spoke to that earlier in the week. He's followed a
Peyton Manning track similar when loss is similar, touchdown numbers,
(21:01):
no playoff wins. In his first five years, Peyton broke out.
He got Dungee in your five, breaks out in your six,
is co MVP and is in the AFC Championship game.
I think he's on that trajectory. Also, what of the
struggles I guess of Justin Herbert? Have you put on
Justin Herbert to this point in his career?
Speaker 9 (21:20):
Self preservation?
Speaker 10 (21:22):
It is really difficult to teach this to a competitor,
But Justin Herbert needs to know when the battle's lost.
And I know that sounds counterintuitive, especially in a sport
as competitive it's football, But he has to understand when
a play is dead, when it's time to fall on
your sword and take the sack. There are smart sacks
to take. There are good opportunities to get rid of
(21:45):
the football. Not every play needs to turn into a
dynamic first down, or an effort at a first down,
or an effort at a touchdown. Sometimes the smart choice
is to play chess, not checkers. Look, I get it,
King me is fun. You know what's more fun? You
know trapping? You know the King with Knight at E one. Look,
(22:06):
I don't know chess, but I do know football, and
I do know that he's struggling a little bit protecting
himself in games. So yeah, Look, he hasn't been surrounded
by the best talent, the best coaching, the best skill
at times. Certainly the offensive line has had its issues,
injury being one of them. But he needs to really,
(22:27):
Jim Harbaugh really needs to hammer home the point that
they are not going to win many football games without
Justin Herbert in the huddles. So he needs to start
taking care of himself better.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
So, speaking of great athletes, they all are you were,
Travis Hunter is an extra great athlete, and I think
he is going to change the way we view what
these athletes can do. They're clearly going to play him
two ways. He clearly wants to play two ways. What
is reasonable to expect from Travis Hunter as an NFL player?
Speaker 10 (23:01):
Travis Hunter is going to be better at one of
these positions than the other. This isn't college football anymore.
These are trained professionals who have been at this for
a very long time, and They're going to be fits
and starts with every career, even for.
Speaker 9 (23:16):
The most talented.
Speaker 10 (23:18):
But when you are trying to understand the nuance of
two different sides of the ball, when the bright lights
around in the NFL and you're not playing against guys
who are you know, in certain cases in.
Speaker 9 (23:31):
College football, playing college football for.
Speaker 10 (23:33):
The first time since high school and still miss their
mom and dad. You know, they're only divorced by twelve
months from being grounded for the last time. You know,
these guys you're playing against and preparing for, they've been
in the league for twelve years sometimes and have been
catching passes against defensive backs at an.
Speaker 9 (23:50):
All pro level for five to eight years. You know.
Speaker 10 (23:54):
So Travis Hunter is going to face those challenges as
a defensive back in the NFL, and then you turn
it over to the offense. The hits are harder, the
windows are tighter, the timing is faster.
Speaker 9 (24:05):
So he is going to.
Speaker 10 (24:07):
Struggle at times. He is going to have successes, obviously,
because again this is why you draft a guy in
the first round, because you're counting on that. But I
think what we're going to see it's going to be
pretty obvious. Witch side of the ball he's more comfortable playing,
and then there may be a conversation and it could
come as soon as.
Speaker 9 (24:25):
The halfway point of this season.
Speaker 10 (24:27):
Do we abandon this idea first that we had that
could be game changing, or do we stick with it
and potentially you have a guy who is above average
on both sides of the ball as opposed to having
a guy who's elite on one side of the ball.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So you've been in locker rooms, You've been around guys
who made a ton of money, and I'm sure you
were around the guys who had issues with not making
enough money. It's a story in Washington, it's history in Cincinnati.
It's the biggest story in Dallas, so we can put
it there, but also just to globalize it. How big
of a deal ultimately is it? If player is unhappy
(25:06):
with contract, like saying Micah Parsons is unhappy with the
Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 9 (25:11):
It's a problem until it isn't a problem anymore. You know.
Speaker 10 (25:15):
Look, the business side of this game is a really
important side of this game. You have a short window
to make life changing money, and Micah Parsons deserves life
changing money because he is a franchise shafting player.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
So he's going to get his. He's going to make.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
Every attempt at getting his, and Jerry Jones is going
to do Jerry Jones things.
Speaker 9 (25:37):
And we're seeing a lot of that.
Speaker 10 (25:38):
I know you're following it closely, Danny, but as ugly
as it can get.
Speaker 9 (25:43):
Sometimes. One thing that all.
Speaker 10 (25:45):
Football players, especially football players as talented as Michael Parsons do,
is compartmentalize. Whatever's happening in your personal life or your
business career, you have to separate and be able to
go out and perform. He's been doing that an elite
level for a long time now, and my expectation is,
regardless of how sour or dour these negotiations go, regardless
(26:10):
of how long they take, as soon as he hits
the field, he's gonna get right back where he left off.
And the suer the better, because obviously you want your
defense to congeal. You want there to be some suredness
in terms of working together with all the guys on
the fields, playing their roles at practice and in whatever
preseason action they see during the actual games. But yeah,
(26:34):
you know, just speaking broadly about talented football players like
Micah Parsons, once he's through the rigors of the negotiation.
He's going to get back to doing what he loves
and what he's great at, which is sacking quarterbacks and
making impactful plays on the defense.
Speaker 9 (26:50):
Or the Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
He went to Penn State.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
You went to Penn State, same level of athlete, saying,
you know, and obviously there's no question about that. Do
you believe that Penn State deserves to be the favorite
in the Big Ten this year?
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I do.
Speaker 10 (27:10):
I do a return a tremendous amount of talent. I
have a quarterback who's worthy of carrying that weight, who's
made clutch plays and has made mistakes. I mean, we
are reminded every time the replays of that Notre Dame
game come over there. He obviously has things to clean up.
But great players make mistakes and learn from them. And
(27:33):
that's part of being great is not repeating, you know,
those confounding moments that can really hurt your team in
the moments that matter the most. And you know, in
terms of coaching and culture, I think I think would
coach James Franklin has done with Penn State has been
(27:54):
nothing short of miraculous. I mean, if you think about
where this program was when he first took over, you know,
it was only one coach separated from the scandal and
the exit of Joe Paterno, and a rebuild was still
in order, and he ushered Penn State football through that
(28:15):
era into a new era of success and arguably the
most successful window that they've ever enjoyed. So I believe
fullheartedly that this team can win the Big Ten. If
I'm not the first to say it, I believe they
will win the Big Ten. They do need to perform
in the big moments, and that is going to be
(28:35):
the biggest task of this season. We know they can win,
we know they can win at a great rate. But
can they win in those big moments. That has yet
to be answered, and that is the question they must answer,
and I think they will this season.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Then quickly, do you think Aler's a good pro like
you see a good pro prospect?
Speaker 9 (28:52):
He does.
Speaker 10 (28:52):
He does translate well to the pro game, just size
and athleticism, kind of the same way we were just
talking about Drake May good enough athlete, can make the throws,
has shown great composure in moments. Obviously, there's always work
to be done, but one thing that you love to
see out of a player in terms of whether or
not he can hack it at the next level. Is
(29:14):
anticipatory throws and he's good there. You know, he gets
the timing down with this receivers, he finds the windows.
He's clearly reading defenses. He's no dummy. I think he'll
be a good pro one day. But he's got his
work cut out this season. He's got a lot of
work to do ahead of him. Still in college football.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
For Penn State and Ntney Lyon, former draft pick of
the Patriots, played six years in the NFL. Rich Ornberger,
thank you so much for taking time for the Herd.
Speaker 9 (29:39):
Thank you, rich Glad to do it, Danny anytime.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
We'll talk again soon. That's rich Ornberger here with us
on the Herd. And yeah, we are one month away
from Ohio State and Texas. Some of the best players,
the best draft prospects downs Jeremiah Smith and yes, arch
Manning trying to live up to abs polutely impossible hype. Hey,
you've thrown ninety five passes in college football. You're the
(30:04):
favorite for the Heisman Trophy and the second favorite to
be the national champion, and people think you're gonna be
the number one overall pick.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
No big deal. It's been a tremendous honor.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's a ton of fun whenever I get to sit
in for Colin Coward. Thank you so much for listening
and watching the Herd
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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