July 9, 2025 • 42 mins
More on Angel Reese being on the NBA2K cover over Caitlin Clark
Kevin Durant talks about his time in Brooklyn
Thoughts on Cooper Flagg vs Bronny in Summer League tomorrow
#douggottliebshow
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
What up? Welcome in This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be listening, owvery maybe making us part of your day.
Thanks so much. I'm Doug gottliebe in for Colin Cowherd
and for the next hour, I want to talk sports
with you. Uh so it's it's yeah, we're in this
(01:01):
weird time. You would all agree. I think if we
none out are head like, it is a little bit
weird time. Politically, it's just weird. You don't have to
say what side you're on politically, you would admit it's
it's uh the best way to say, well, that's different. Yeah,
that's that's that's different. Yeah, that's that's different. We're gonna
(01:28):
do it. Uh, the UFC fight at the White House
this year, Yeah, that's different. That definitely, there'll definitely be
a lot of barbed wire tattoos at at that event,
and look, I like, I watched you go see two
Weekends and goes great at the White House. That's different.
(01:50):
Sports is in this kind of different place as well.
College sports massive change now that you're paying players massive uh.
And I do think that there's lots of things that sports, radio,
sports televisions have done that are good. We bring attention,
and attention brings curiosity. Curiosity brings people to either the
(02:14):
TV sets or to their radio stations or in person
to watch games. That's really we're drumming up interest with
discussion about it. Not all of it's positive, right. I
think the proliferation of sports on TV, combined with the
fact that sports television hyper focuses on star players and
(02:39):
a lot of young fans are not fans of teams anymore.
They're fans of players, and a lot of it is
the players move team to team to team. Take Lebron James.
He's played for the Lakers for seven years, it still
doesn't feel like he's a Laker. Ander fans would go like, Noah,
(03:01):
he's not. I mean, are you really gonna put him
on the Mount Rushmore of Lakers? In an outsider to
Laker to the Los Angeles be like, well, of course
all time in scor he won NBA Championship. Why why
wouldn't ship Well, because honestly, like, are you gonna take
Jerry west Town, what about Magic? What about Kareem? What
(03:23):
about Big Game James? What about Kobe? What about Shaq?
Where do they where do they stack up? You're like, well,
it's just different. We didn't even get to all the
other Wilt Chamberlain never discussed him, all right, Elgie Baylor
didn't discuss him, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So
(03:46):
we're in a weird time where there are people who
are Lebron fans, not Laker fans, and Laker fans who
they don't even accept Lebron as a Laker. He just
kind of playing for Lakers, and they're like, eh, well,
we're good. We're also in time in which suddenly now
we're I mean Sunday obviously, I think most of the world,
most of the United States, starting to pay attention to soccer,
(04:07):
like oh yeahah yeah, yeah, World Cups next year. We'll
be fake soccer fans up until then, and when it's
over that will pretend like we're real soccer fans, and
then we'll move on. But the WNBA has been a
part of the sports radio sports television conversation now for
parts of the last two and a half years, And
(04:30):
what does that coincide with the rise of Caitlin Clark?
And you can argue otherwise, feel free, you can say
whether there's this, there's that, bah bit bah bit bad,
But the reality is it tracks directly with Caitlin Clark,
and the ratings are the easiest determinant. Again, I don't
(04:51):
you know, It's like, if we went purely by ratings,
we should be talking about NASCAR. But the reality is
NASCAR fans, NHL fans, they don't listen to sports radio.
But in the sports discussion, the WNBA has become kind
of a talking point, and I think it's it's just
(05:12):
weird that we feel compelled to force the conversation to
spread out around other players. Angel Reese is the biggest
recipient of attention, some because of her play, a lot
of because of her antics going back two years ago
in the Final four, but a lot of it is like, look,
(05:36):
she's good players, good rebounder. Reebok gave her her own
shoe I would love to see the sales numbers on
that bad Boy. And there is a portion of the
demo which likes Angel rees likes that she somehow becomes
some underdog story, Like she's not an underdog. You know,
(05:59):
she left to school to transfer to LSU where they
gathered up the best women's basketball players and won national championship.
That's not an underdog. And then she was a top pick,
now the top but a top pick in the WNBA draft, Like,
that's not an underdog. But whatever, if you want to
make it into an underdog story. We can make anything
into an underdog story. But I find it really curious
(06:23):
on how Angel Reese is the face of the WNBA
on the WNBA edition of two K twenty six. So
(06:43):
that's a weird one. Now, for if you know the
in the Superstar edition, Carmelo Anthony is also on the cover,
so you're like, wait, now we're getting super weird. Carmelo
Anthony covers the NBA. Now I think he's is he
gon word for Amazon or NBC. So a little bit
of the two K cover is kind of like the
(07:06):
Sports Illustrated being on a Sports illustrated cover, right, used
to matter a lot doesn't really matter now, Like, I
don't even know if Sports Illustrate still does the magazine.
Even when they did the magazine, they started doing the
regional stuff, And when they started doing the regional stuff,
they started play cating as many different demos as possible, like, hey,
let's just be nice where it used to be, Like,
(07:27):
let's just put Jordan on the cover and sell a
bunch of magazines. He's the best. Everybody knows he's the best.
But the two K cover is weird, right, Why would
you put Angel Reese there? What is this need to
(07:48):
place others there? We do it. By the way, in advertising,
if you watch the NBA Playoffs, there were there littered
throughout the entire playoffs were WNBA players in the place
of where NBA players used to be as spokespeople for you,
(08:08):
you know what, used to just be the Chris Paul
Lebron James and Steph Curry show. Now all of a sudden,
you have WNBA players who, let's just be honest, no
one knows who they are outside of Caitlyn Clark. And
my guess is that two K twenty six and in
this alternate cover doesn't sell a ton anyway. But do
(08:32):
you think you would sell more if Caitlyn was on
the cover. The answer is yes. How do I know? Well,
her Mamba shoes sold out in like what two hours
or something crazy like that. Like she's a thing. You know,
she's a superstar, and superstars are not always determined based
(08:57):
upon who the absolute best is. It's who we like
to watch the most. By the way, Katon Clark returned
from injury today ten six five and the Fever's blowout
loss to the Valkyrie. That's the new team in San Francisco,
so they've hit a little bit of a tough stretch.
She hasn't shot the ball as well. I'm not gonna
(09:18):
sit here and tell you Cayton Clark's the best player
in the WNBA. I don't know who is, and frankly,
I don't care. But I've been doing this job for
twenty three years. Twenty three years, twenty two years ago.
Twenty three years ago I started at ESPN Radio on
a show called Game Night. Never talked to women's basketball,
(09:40):
especially the WNBA unless there was something dramatic, and for
the most part that just wasn't there. And again I
worked at the ESPN. ESPN talked about ESPN products all
the time and said blah blah blah blah blah, like
talk about our stuff, Synergy Synergy scenery. But no one
ever said, you know, we should talk about WNBA because
nobody cared. People care now, And yet it's like the
(10:01):
WNBA wants to like push her away and say like, yes,
she's fine, but everybody else is awesome. That's why you
should really be paid attention. And when you're trying to
figure out why, like why what would the pushback be? Right?
(10:21):
I think to most of us, especially to men, you're like, eh, jealousy,
that was reasonable, right, And we can say that only
women are jealous, but plenty of guys are jealous. Right.
You think of the story of why Barry Bonds is
alleged to have started using steroids. Barry Bonds was the
first ballot Hall of Famer no doubter, Roger Clemens first
(10:43):
ballot Hall of Famer no doubter, Okay, both it started
their careers started to be diminished, and they started to
be out shown by people who most people think were
on steroids. And so then they juiced up and the
two who were to the all time greats became the
greatest ever at an age which had to be receiving
artificial help. Right, those guys are jealous. I have three dogs, Okay,
(11:14):
pack mentality, but my dogs, you know, when I come home,
because I'm the leader of the pack, they're all fighting
for attention. Why it's some sort of jealousy. And we're
seeing that here in the WNBA. And the inability to
process the jealousy and to use the positivity of the
attention that Caitlyn Clark getting to grow the overall sport
(11:37):
is kind of laughable to the rest of us, but
it's also understandable. Hell, hath they rath like a woman
who's scorned, Right, that's from a playwright in the sixteenth century,
seventeenth century, and it's true here. And they're not scorned
(12:00):
Caitlyn Clark. They feel scorned by the media. And it's crazy,
right because the media is doing backflips to try and
help them out, like, hey, we're trying to cover your game,
but we can't talk about stuff that nobody cares about
and the mainstream fans, and you can't control what mainstream
(12:23):
fans like and don't like. You know, I think the
easiest Taylor Swift is maybe inarguably the most popular performer
in the country. She's by all accounts, now she's got
(12:45):
that third comma, she's a billionaire. She toured on her
last tour and sold out stadium after stadium after stadium,
night after night after night. Would anybody argue that she's
the best songwriter, singer, former, or best looking. No, but
people have decided. I like her, I like the vibe,
(13:07):
I like the songs, I like the the whole thing.
Are there better female singers, Sure, they're better female country singers. Yes.
Are there better performers they're better looking women to go yes, Yes,
but again it doesn't mean that they're as popular. And
the people who have pushed back against her tour are
(13:28):
no different than the people who push back against the
popularity of Caitlin Clark. Like, imagine shunning being on the
opening act for Taylor Swift. Why, Like, hey, I should
be a headliner? Like that's great, you should be Or
you can use the attention of her tour to propel
(13:50):
your career to height sun now heights on. Now, do
you guys remember that time slot? This is again, if
you're a child of the nineties, if you're a child
of the nineties. You remember Must See TV on NBC, right,
and you had Cosby Show into Cheers and you had
that time slot in the middle. Most of it was
(14:12):
for a long time. It was a different world, remember,
a different world and whatever That eight thirties show was
got a huge number, not because it was a great show,
but because it was in between two of the greatest
shows on television, you know, and then it became Seinfelden
Friends whatever. Same thing. But the point is that you
(14:37):
can either use the rise in popularity for good or
you can fight against it. And it feels like the
WNBA is fighting against it, and they keep pushing us
Angel Reese, Angel Reese, Angel Rees, Angel Reese, and you're like,
you keep pushing it, and I just I don't. It
doesn't feel good to me. It feels like bitterness. It
(14:57):
feels like jealousy. It feels like you've been weaponizing yourself
for twenty five years of not being paid attention to.
Then we pay attention to You're like, now you're not
paying attention to the right stuff. Here we are again
with another WNBA story of not using the popularity of
(15:18):
Caitlin Clark to grow the game because you put Caitlin
Clark on that cover. The thing sells out in minutes, minutes,
and when it sells out, inevitably they'll be I don't know,
a third or half the number of people who buy
it have never bought a video game ever before. And
if even half of those people throw it in and
play it, that's that's found money. That's a whole new
(15:43):
market that brings people to playing games that have never
played it before. Instead, it's Angel Rees who has a
level of popularity, but it is a fraction of that
of Kaitlin Clark. We got a lot to get to.
We've got Cooper Flag versus Brownie. That's tomorrow in Vegas.
We got herdline news. But coming up next here in
(16:06):
The Herd. Wait to hear what Kad said about his
time with the Brooklyn Nets. That's next.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Hey what's up everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Arrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game? What is up on Game?
You asked along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
(16:45):
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with me LeVar Arrington, TJ. Huschman, Zada,
and Plexico Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
where ever you get your podcast frob.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
As for Steve Nash, that's kd's former head coach when
he was in Brooklyn. Here's KD this week talking about
his time in Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
I don't think we didn't get the full Steve Nash
like I want it, like you probably wanted. I just
felt like it was just too much, too many distractions
in a way, and you know you can't win that way.
But I felt like we had great intentions though. I
feel like we cared enough. I feel like every day
we were trying to push towards winning the champion. It
(17:33):
was a great vibe, man. It's some of the best
times out that first year. That's why I saw that
deal that first year. Man, most fun ball I had
some of the most fun ball I had planning my
whole life. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So obviously it's a different spin on kd's time in Brooklyn,
which is generally seen as a failure, a failed experiment.
And I know Colin likes to point out like, you're
putting your career in the hands of Kyrie, and you know,
Kyrie Irving, among other things, got hurt, and he got hurt.
(18:08):
And that was the year, you know, without throwing Kyrie
under the bus, Kyrie was under the bus from that year.
That was the year that Remember, Kyrie was the post COVID.
He didn't want to take a BAX, couldn't play at home.
Then eventually he got to play later on the year. Uh.
You fast forward to the next season and Kevin Durant
(18:30):
they nearly beat the champions, the Milwaukee Bucks, if not
for his foot being online. And that was without Kyrie
Irving was hurt. And of course James Harden had the
pulled hamstring that he was trying to play through. He
had the Ben Simmons thing. Look every athlete, every place
(18:52):
you work, when you move around, he'd like, man, it
would have worked if but it didn't. You got to
work through those stages of grief, be whore. You get
to through the to the acceptance level, right, And I'm
I'm sure there's a Hey, it's really hard to coach
when you have all these other don't know if Kyrie's
(19:14):
gonna play tonight or if he's he allowed to play.
Ben Simmons, what's his deal? James Harden, Remember he wanted
to be traded and then he had. He was constantly hurt.
He don't want to play any defense, like it's a
lot and you know, again, if you parse his words,
you're like, oh, well, he had more fun there than
(19:35):
playing in Golden State. I think for KD. You know,
if you really cut down to brass tacks, it's got
to be hard because Lebron's sitting there, you know, and
Lebron's pretending to be everybody's best friend, or maybe wants
to be everybody's best friend now. But the reality is
Kevin Durant was an MVP by the way, three time
(19:59):
runner up for Envy, but an MVP in Oklahoma City.
They come within a game of beating Oklahoma City. Then
he's a free agent. He goes to Golden State and
they win two titles, probably would have won the third
and not torn as Achilles Tenen. And I'm sure at
that point in time he was trying to show, hey,
(20:20):
I am the best player in the world. I just
am not surrounded by enough space to where I can
show you that I can score on anybody, including Lebron
James in the NBA Finals, which he did. But most people,
or many people's reaction continues to be, you join the
seventy three win team, I congrats you won an NBA
title on this show at the time and since I've
(20:44):
repeatedly told you, okay, why do we pay attention to
the number of wins of that team? Yet? Ever since,
right in the ten years since, how many times the
team of the best record this year obviously best record
won the title but did so in seven games? How
many teams those teams ever got to the finals? Just
(21:06):
like there's not really a correlation between college success and
professionals success in football and in basketball, there's not really
the correlation for the most part, between regular season success
and posting and said, there's just not right, There's just
not And that seventy three win team, okay, probably should
(21:26):
have won the NBA title Andrew Boga got hurt, and
then Dremond Green got suspended, and even then it took
an incredible Game seven from a loaded Cleveland Cavaliers team
to beat him. So they instead of doing strength in numbers,
they gutted their roster. They moved on from Harrison Barnes,
and they got Kevin Durant. I'm sure in his mind
(21:48):
he's like, look, dude, here I am. I think on
the best player in the world and on the biggest stage.
I was the best player in the NBA finals two
consecutive years, guarded by Lebron James. I was better than
the second half where it matters. But he didn't get
he didn't get the positive uh accolades that he felt
(22:09):
like he deserved. So he goes to Brooklyn Mine. You
don't like it when I joined the team. We'll build
one on our own. We found a coach who was
a former player that we could all you know, I mean,
it's not his fault, Like yeah, I mean I understand
what Colin's saying, where it's like, okay, Kyrie saying we
don't need a head coach and having all of these
(22:30):
guys like a James Harden oora Ben Simmons that have
their own flaws, no matter how talented, like it was
a recipe for a disaster, despite that they were within
one toe being on the line of beating Milwaukee Bucks
who won the title. But KD trying to have the
back of Steve Nashton saying hey, he really didn't get
(22:51):
the coach. Does paint us a picture of just how
chaotic that franchise must have been. But I will tell you,
and this is again from personal experience, no matter how chaotic,
you either break through as a coach and demand that
you are a coach. And I know it's different in
the NBA when those guys are worth half a billion dollars.
(23:13):
Or you don't coach, you don't coach. So gotta be
Isshue thirty six, working on thirty seven and now with
probably one or two more shots at a title. And
that's what I think. Katie probably thinks he needs to
put himself on a mount Rushmore that he'll probably never
(23:34):
be able to get to, despite the fact that I
think he belongs there. I think he's the best scorer
of this generation post Carmelo Anthony and his game evolved
more than Carmelo Anthony's did in terms of three point
shooting and playing face in the basket, whereas Carmelo was
unbelievable score for a time, mostly in the post in
the midrange. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news.
(23:58):
No new, this.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Is the herd Line news.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
All right, Doug, we'll stay in the association. Talk some
NBA here. The Celtics major movers this offseason, dumping salaries
and players left and right. Well, Boston's president of basketball Operations,
Brad Stevens, had this explanation for all of these moves
in the offseason, the.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
Second aprons, Why those trades happened. I think that those
are pretty obvious, and the basketball penalty associated with us
are real. We've all talked about that. That was part
of making the decision to push and put our chips
on the table and go forth the last two years.
But we've known for a long time the hard decisions
were coming, and I think of the agents and players
have known that too. I mean, that's been pretty well communicated.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
So pretty clear that the Celtics were looking to get
underneath that second apron, which is highly highly prohibitive against
making any future down the line. And in addition, to this.
He's also put an emphasis on the fact that people
keep using the term rebuild, and he said that's not
(25:10):
going to be a part of the lexicon in our
building and the way we're going to focus moving forward.
He wants them to quote, compete like hell to win
the next game.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Look, do I think the Celtics will be better than
anyone could perceive without Jason Tatum? Yeah? Do I think
he gives Jalen Brown a chance to show he can
lead a team? Absolutely, But when you have three hundred
million tied up into two guys and one of them
can't use his left hand, the other one is coming
off in Achilles, gonna be hard. But what he's been
(25:47):
able to do in manipulating that roster and figuring all out.
As good a coach as Brad is, he might be
a better executive, Yeah, might be a better executive.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Arkable but it so.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
One of the sort of talking points that Boston has
held on to this offseason was that the Jason Tatum injury,
specifically in a vacuum, did not necessarily change the moves
that they were already intending to make to avoid that
second apron. Do you buy that?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Uh? Yeah, Yeah, I mean they were gonna move prezingis
I mean that thing was that wasn't I mean, barely
played last year, he wasn't, right, Sure, you know they
and they Horford was one of those. I'm sure they
wanted to make an offer whatever, but at thirty nine,
it was probably best he moved on. And the same
thing with Drew Holiday, Like, Drew's tremendous, but it's some
(26:47):
I'm sure that was all part of the plan. You know,
Drew not happy about being in Portland, but I'm sure
he'll end up finding a place to a team that
wants could bee for a title.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, I actually do buy that. I do. I think
that the plan is still in place and that they
haven't you know, totally. I think the Anthony Simmons one
would be the Simons excuse me, that's the one that like,
all right, would they have acquired him if they had
Jason Tatum, probably not, But the guys they moved on from. Yeah,
(27:18):
I think that was part of the plan all alone. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
It also I tend to believe that and agree with
you in the sense that we know that the Celtics
have been aggressive with making moves and as you said,
Brad Stevens maybe a better front office executive than he
even was as a very successful head coach. And we
tend to forget like the Knicks were in real control
(27:42):
of that series with a healthy Jason Tatum. So I
think there were some early indications that even withinside the building,
Boston may have been looking at that as we can't
just sit here and assume that we were ready to
win another title if Jason Tatum hadn't gotten hurt. The Knicks,
who now look at as a seriously flawed team, we're
(28:03):
very much in position to win that with a healthy
Jason Tatum.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I tend to Ageah, I mean, they stole they
stole Game one. I mean that was that was a
big part of it. Sure, uh, and they were in
control before Jason Tatum went down. But I think the
Persingis thing was really you know, it's I also think
it's really interesting what's happened in Dallas. You have a
guy who builds a championship roster. They go to the
(28:27):
finals last year, and part of building that was he
moved off of Perzingis because Persingis is always hurt. And
then Boston was able to just keep him patch together
to win one NBA championship and you know this year
again he's always hurt. It's always something so uh but yeah,
I mean, I think they were going to move on
(28:47):
from presingas they were going to move on from Al Horford.
They were gonna move on, uh probably from Drew Holiday
as well at the end of the year, regardless of
winner loss. I'm sure that was part of their players.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
All right to the NFL. Travis Kelcey he will be
back for or a thirteenth season in the NFL in
with the Kansas City Chiefs, but his production has dropped
off in the last two seasons and last season most notably.
Part of his decision to come back was that he
didn't want to go out like that. He felt like
he let his teammates down well. Brett Beach, general manager
(29:19):
of the Kansas City Chiefs, had this to say about
Travis Kelcey at the end of his career and where
he's at at this point as a playmaker, saying, quote,
the great ones know how to find it, They know
where it's buried, they know how to access it. They
can't access it at that age week in and week out,
but when they need it, they know how to find it.
(29:42):
This might be it. That's sometimes what we're like with Travis.
But when the games are most important and the lights
of the brightest, he finds it somewhere.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, that's about right. Right, that's about right, Like he
doesn't have it on a daily basis, but when needed,
he can still dial it up. I think can't see
it's gonna be interesting, right because they continue to figure
out a way to get it done despite the fact
that they don't over you know, there's not playmakers that
strike fear in people's hearts. So again I'm interested. And
(30:18):
the other part to it is most most NFL people
will tell you, like, once you start to think about
ree and retired, you are. I think he's really thought
about it, So again, be interest to see how he
comes back from her.
Speaker 6 (30:30):
Yeah, to your point, So what will will be interesting
to see about Travis this upcoming season is the production
dipped slightly two seasons ago. But what we saw in
the regular season wasn't the same as during the postseason
where he had those big moments. This year, it just
(30:54):
felt like the production had really dropped off and he
wasn't totally able to tap into that next gear quite
like he had the press season. Now he has taken
full ownership of it. He's admitted that, you know, in
the offseason he could have done better with taking care
of his body, and he's taken a different approach this year.
So we'll see if he can sort of turn back
(31:14):
the clock. But it feels like for a guy playing
that position at this age, at this point in his career,
it would be hard to sort of reverse course from
where the trend is headed. But obviously for someone who's
been as productive and successful as he's been in his career,
and with Pat Mahomes throwing him the ball, it's not impossible.
(31:34):
We'll wrap up with this staying in the NFL. TJ
Watt holding firm on wanting a new contract that pays
him inline or more than Miles Garrett, who now makes
forty million per year on average, well Adam Schefter reporting
the two sides still far apart on a new deal.
Watt has been withholding from team activities in hopes of
(31:56):
that new deal, and has at least stated not publicly,
but the expectation is that he would be willing to
hold out of training camp or hold in whatever they
do these days to get that new deal.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I think I think Pittsburgh you mentioned Collins mentioned
it going all in. I think they want to let
the season play out and then figure out what's what,
who they want to keep, what they don't, And there's
a world where they let the match and start over,
including the coaching staff. There's a world in which they
have a great season. And even Aaron Rodgers did leave
the door slightly cracked. I think it's my last season.
We'll see and that's why music with news.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It's that time of year where there's an over hyped
fake game that brings you to the TV to watch
Summer League in the NBA. What game is it this year?
What should proper expectations be towards Brownie James? I will
tell you next time. Doug Gotlieb, this is the Herd.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter and Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Doug Glliman for Collins, I heard Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio app.
Let's let's discuss this NBA Summer League stuff. So you
got the stats there Ryan Music for Ronnie in two
Summer League games. Now, first Summer League game had ten
(33:27):
to a half, ended up with ten, didn't play huge minutes,
but did play enough, and then played yesterday and really struggled. Right,
was the combined stats that you had.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
So yeah, he hasn't played heavy minutes in either game,
but if you combine them, he has played twenty six
minutes over two games. He scored twelve points. But it's
the shooting and the lack of efficiency which has become
a problem because he's four of twelve from the field,
two of seven from three.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, and he shot it I think an airbar or
two in yesterday's game. They played at the at the
Warriors Arena. Here's the reality to it, okay, And somehow
I know that every time we post something he get
to the why are you talking about lebron or lebron
a or whatever like, Well, we talk about lots of topics.
(34:23):
Bronnie James and Cooper Flag on opposing teams on opening
night of Summer League is going to be a thing.
And what we talk about on Fox Sports Radio are
the things are the important things we don't deally dally
and things that people don't care about. That's what bad
radio cu bad sports radio networks do. We focus on
(34:43):
what people talk about the most. That'll be talking about that.
So the expectations for a second year pro, and these
are reasonable expectations, are for you to dominate in summer league.
You've played in the NBA, You've played a against the best,
you've practiced against the best. You've been through an NBA season.
(35:05):
You know whatever sets you're running again, they're not running
anything ornate, but you've done it on an NBA floor,
you know all the tricks. You get a little bit
more respect from the officials. The expectations are for you
to be dominant, the best player on the floor. Now
here's why it's unrealistic for Bronnie James. He might have
had one G League game like that this year, maybe.
(35:29):
And I mean I never watched him outside of videos
prior to when he moved to Los Angeles, but I
saw him play in high school in aau in Los Angeles,
and there was never a time which he was absolutely
the best player on a high school floor or on
a college floor. And so it does feel like unrealistic
(35:50):
expectations that he'll be the best player on a summer
league floor, not because you're not supposed to win, you're
an NBA player, you are, but because that's never been him.
As for Cooper Flag, I am intrigued by how he's used,
how he's played. We have seen him dominate at Again,
(36:12):
here's the difference, right, Here's a kid who was the
best player when he played sixteens, was the best player
last summer, was the best player at Duke, and at
times this year on college basketball floors he was the
best player. Does that mean he'll be the best player
now opening nights? We've seen Wemby struggle opening night. Now
he'd just gotten off a plane from France. We've seen
(36:34):
other guys like Lebron dominating opening nights. Obviously he's Lebron
is a little bit different. But usually number one picks
are sort of like golf. Around of golf, there's one
or two things that make you want to come back, ooh, ooh, ooh,
(36:55):
there's something there. So proper expectations for Cooper Flag are ooh,
one or two things. Proper expectations for Bronnie James are, Hey, dude,
at some point, you gotta be the best player floor.
You played in the NBA last season and you're playing
against eighty percent of those guys are not NBA players,
(37:15):
maybe more and more, and you had three more years
of guaranteed deals and I and I you know, you
can't undersell this enough. Like the Lakers spent most of
this year with their G League team focusing on the
development of Bronnie James, which I'm sure is part of
kind of this recent pushback where they're like not really
(37:38):
about lebron which is like, dude, really, like you're not
all for us, all for winning a championship. And we
basically create, you know, changed our G league roster, and
he traveled sometimes, didn't travel for the first part of
the year, then did travel some that he's called up
a bunch. Then we played him some in the NBA,
(37:59):
like we did all the things for Ronnie James, like
it's not really an NBA player, and then oh yeah,
by the way, you have there. You have read various
people who covered the NBA have said they expectations are
that they think next year he'll be in the rotation.
If you're an NBA rotational player, you should be dominating
summer league. I play with the Lakers in the summer League,
(38:25):
Slava Dvedenko and Devin George were dominant. They took all
the shots, they had all the points, they knew all
the sets, they knew everything, and they were bit players
on those Lakers teams. That's how it works. Hasn't changed,
won't change, and that that first year, but that first
summer between rookie year and second year, that's the most
(38:47):
important summer of your NBA career. You've got to make
big strides. And the first big strides you got to
make is dominate in the Summer League. It's just a
mentality thing that has to match up to your skill set.
And my issue with it is only we haven't seen
him do that before, so the likelihood of him doing
(39:09):
it doesn't feel great, Doug.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
To your point about the attention and the interest in
this upcoming game between the Mavericks and the Lakers in
the Summer League, Anthony Slater, who we had on earlier
on the show, pointed this out. But some of these
statistics online floating about is that the average ticket price
(39:35):
for a Summer League game that counts for absolutely nothing
is going for about two hundred and twenty three dollars
and courtside seats are looking to be over three thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
First of all, I just so we're aware, I don't
buy that. I know what's been reported, but again, like
I don't really do you think anybody's really shelling out
three thousand bucks? Maybe?
Speaker 6 (40:02):
Yeah, I feels like here's now part of it.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Also, remember that event is a kind of a who's
who have it's This is like the NBA's convention, right,
Free agents meet there, agents meet there. You have international
players there, international agents are there, international teams come to
scout because most of those players will go play overseas.
Whatever it is. Then that opening night is a who's who.
And you know, I mean, like look, Cooper, Flag's gonna
(40:29):
I mean, Kyrie is gonna be there. I'm sure the
guess is Lebron's going to be there. Right, So you're
not necessarily just buying a ticket to watch the game.
You're buying a ticket to like basically going to a
club before everybody goes out to a club exactly.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
And that's what I was going to say, is the
only reason I'm willing to buy that this is a
possibility is because it's in Vegas. So if I'm gonna
believe that guys go to Vegas and they'll drop ten
grand on a table in a nightclub to pop bottles
of champagne, which from the supermarket go for much less
than that. I fully believe that in order to flex
(41:04):
those same muscles as a hey, look at me, why
wouldn't someone drop a couple thousand dollars to be able
to be courtside to watch Cooper flag and be able
to sit next to Lebron James.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, although you'll never get next to Lebron James, right,
and sure, and you're gonna watch Cooper flag and maybe
he plays twenty minutes and whatever.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
Again, I'm not saying it's a smart thing to do,
but I totally see it happening. For sure.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
If you have twenty five hundred dollars in Vegas, is
that the best way to allocate your resources?
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Absolutely not. But there's a lot of things. There's a
lot of poor financial decisions happening.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Yeah, correct, it is. It is a. It is a
It's like my old college coach, coach, and he said,
we played in Vegas against UNLB two years in a
row on the road, and both years we got out
the planet. He's like, man, look at them skyscraper's brother.
They don't keep building them because the house loses. That
is the land. It's not just sin City, but the
land of bad financial decisions. All right, have you missed
(42:04):
any today's show? Check out the podcast. Meanwhile, future dates,
Listen to Doug Gottlieb show This Is the Hurt on
Fox Sports Radio.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
What up? Welcome in This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be listening, owvery maybe making us part of your day.
Thanks so much. I'm Doug gottliebe in for Colin Cowherd
and for the next hour, I want to talk sports
with you. Uh so it's it's yeah, we're in this
(01:01):
weird time. You would all agree. I think if we
none out are head like, it is a little bit
weird time. Politically, it's just weird. You don't have to
say what side you're on politically, you would admit it's
it's uh the best way to say, well, that's different. Yeah,
that's that's that's different. Yeah, that's that's different. We're gonna
(01:28):
do it. Uh, the UFC fight at the White House
this year, Yeah, that's different. That definitely, there'll definitely be
a lot of barbed wire tattoos at at that event,
and look, I like, I watched you go see two
Weekends and goes great at the White House. That's different.
(01:50):
Sports is in this kind of different place as well.
College sports massive change now that you're paying players massive uh.
And I do think that there's lots of things that sports, radio,
sports televisions have done that are good. We bring attention,
and attention brings curiosity. Curiosity brings people to either the
(02:14):
TV sets or to their radio stations or in person
to watch games. That's really we're drumming up interest with
discussion about it. Not all of it's positive, right. I
think the proliferation of sports on TV, combined with the
fact that sports television hyper focuses on star players and
(02:39):
a lot of young fans are not fans of teams anymore.
They're fans of players, and a lot of it is
the players move team to team to team. Take Lebron James.
He's played for the Lakers for seven years, it still
doesn't feel like he's a Laker. Ander fans would go like, Noah,
(03:01):
he's not. I mean, are you really gonna put him
on the Mount Rushmore of Lakers? In an outsider to
Laker to the Los Angeles be like, well, of course
all time in scor he won NBA Championship. Why why
wouldn't ship Well, because honestly, like, are you gonna take
Jerry west Town, what about Magic? What about Kareem? What
(03:23):
about Big Game James? What about Kobe? What about Shaq?
Where do they where do they stack up? You're like, well,
it's just different. We didn't even get to all the
other Wilt Chamberlain never discussed him, all right, Elgie Baylor
didn't discuss him, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So
(03:46):
we're in a weird time where there are people who
are Lebron fans, not Laker fans, and Laker fans who
they don't even accept Lebron as a Laker. He just
kind of playing for Lakers, and they're like, eh, well,
we're good. We're also in time in which suddenly now
we're I mean Sunday obviously, I think most of the world,
most of the United States, starting to pay attention to soccer,
(04:07):
like oh yeahah yeah, yeah, World Cups next year. We'll
be fake soccer fans up until then, and when it's
over that will pretend like we're real soccer fans, and
then we'll move on. But the WNBA has been a
part of the sports radio sports television conversation now for
parts of the last two and a half years, And
(04:30):
what does that coincide with the rise of Caitlin Clark?
And you can argue otherwise, feel free, you can say
whether there's this, there's that, bah bit bah bit bad,
But the reality is it tracks directly with Caitlin Clark,
and the ratings are the easiest determinant. Again, I don't
(04:51):
you know, It's like, if we went purely by ratings,
we should be talking about NASCAR. But the reality is
NASCAR fans, NHL fans, they don't listen to sports radio.
But in the sports discussion, the WNBA has become kind
of a talking point, and I think it's it's just
(05:12):
weird that we feel compelled to force the conversation to
spread out around other players. Angel Reese is the biggest
recipient of attention, some because of her play, a lot
of because of her antics going back two years ago
in the Final four, but a lot of it is like, look,
(05:36):
she's good players, good rebounder. Reebok gave her her own
shoe I would love to see the sales numbers on
that bad Boy. And there is a portion of the
demo which likes Angel rees likes that she somehow becomes
some underdog story, Like she's not an underdog. You know,
(05:59):
she left to school to transfer to LSU where they
gathered up the best women's basketball players and won national championship.
That's not an underdog. And then she was a top pick,
now the top but a top pick in the WNBA draft, Like,
that's not an underdog. But whatever, if you want to
make it into an underdog story. We can make anything
into an underdog story. But I find it really curious
(06:23):
on how Angel Reese is the face of the WNBA
on the WNBA edition of two K twenty six. So
(06:43):
that's a weird one. Now, for if you know the
in the Superstar edition, Carmelo Anthony is also on the cover,
so you're like, wait, now we're getting super weird. Carmelo
Anthony covers the NBA. Now I think he's is he
gon word for Amazon or NBC. So a little bit
of the two K cover is kind of like the
(07:06):
Sports Illustrated being on a Sports illustrated cover, right, used
to matter a lot doesn't really matter now, Like, I
don't even know if Sports Illustrate still does the magazine.
Even when they did the magazine, they started doing the
regional stuff, And when they started doing the regional stuff,
they started play cating as many different demos as possible, like, hey,
let's just be nice where it used to be, Like,
(07:27):
let's just put Jordan on the cover and sell a
bunch of magazines. He's the best. Everybody knows he's the best.
But the two K cover is weird, right, Why would
you put Angel Reese there? What is this need to
(07:48):
place others there? We do it. By the way, in advertising,
if you watch the NBA Playoffs, there were there littered
throughout the entire playoffs were WNBA players in the place
of where NBA players used to be as spokespeople for you,
(08:08):
you know what, used to just be the Chris Paul
Lebron James and Steph Curry show. Now all of a sudden,
you have WNBA players who, let's just be honest, no
one knows who they are outside of Caitlyn Clark. And
my guess is that two K twenty six and in
this alternate cover doesn't sell a ton anyway. But do
(08:32):
you think you would sell more if Caitlyn was on
the cover. The answer is yes. How do I know? Well,
her Mamba shoes sold out in like what two hours
or something crazy like that. Like she's a thing. You know,
she's a superstar, and superstars are not always determined based
(08:57):
upon who the absolute best is. It's who we like
to watch the most. By the way, Katon Clark returned
from injury today ten six five and the Fever's blowout
loss to the Valkyrie. That's the new team in San Francisco,
so they've hit a little bit of a tough stretch.
She hasn't shot the ball as well. I'm not gonna
(09:18):
sit here and tell you Cayton Clark's the best player
in the WNBA. I don't know who is, and frankly,
I don't care. But I've been doing this job for
twenty three years. Twenty three years, twenty two years ago.
Twenty three years ago I started at ESPN Radio on
a show called Game Night. Never talked to women's basketball,
(09:40):
especially the WNBA unless there was something dramatic, and for
the most part that just wasn't there. And again I
worked at the ESPN. ESPN talked about ESPN products all
the time and said blah blah blah blah blah, like
talk about our stuff, Synergy Synergy scenery. But no one
ever said, you know, we should talk about WNBA because
nobody cared. People care now, And yet it's like the
(10:01):
WNBA wants to like push her away and say like, yes,
she's fine, but everybody else is awesome. That's why you
should really be paid attention. And when you're trying to
figure out why, like why what would the pushback be? Right?
(10:21):
I think to most of us, especially to men, you're like, eh, jealousy,
that was reasonable, right, And we can say that only
women are jealous, but plenty of guys are jealous. Right.
You think of the story of why Barry Bonds is
alleged to have started using steroids. Barry Bonds was the
first ballot Hall of Famer no doubter, Roger Clemens first
(10:43):
ballot Hall of Famer no doubter, Okay, both it started
their careers started to be diminished, and they started to
be out shown by people who most people think were
on steroids. And so then they juiced up and the
two who were to the all time greats became the
greatest ever at an age which had to be receiving
artificial help. Right, those guys are jealous. I have three dogs, Okay,
(11:14):
pack mentality, but my dogs, you know, when I come home,
because I'm the leader of the pack, they're all fighting
for attention. Why it's some sort of jealousy. And we're
seeing that here in the WNBA. And the inability to
process the jealousy and to use the positivity of the
attention that Caitlyn Clark getting to grow the overall sport
(11:37):
is kind of laughable to the rest of us, but
it's also understandable. Hell, hath they rath like a woman
who's scorned, Right, that's from a playwright in the sixteenth century,
seventeenth century, and it's true here. And they're not scorned
(12:00):
Caitlyn Clark. They feel scorned by the media. And it's crazy,
right because the media is doing backflips to try and
help them out, like, hey, we're trying to cover your game,
but we can't talk about stuff that nobody cares about
and the mainstream fans, and you can't control what mainstream
(12:23):
fans like and don't like. You know, I think the
easiest Taylor Swift is maybe inarguably the most popular performer
in the country. She's by all accounts, now she's got
(12:45):
that third comma, she's a billionaire. She toured on her
last tour and sold out stadium after stadium after stadium,
night after night after night. Would anybody argue that she's
the best songwriter, singer, former, or best looking. No, but
people have decided. I like her, I like the vibe,
(13:07):
I like the songs, I like the the whole thing.
Are there better female singers, Sure, they're better female country singers. Yes.
Are there better performers they're better looking women to go yes, Yes,
but again it doesn't mean that they're as popular. And
the people who have pushed back against her tour are
(13:28):
no different than the people who push back against the
popularity of Caitlin Clark. Like, imagine shunning being on the
opening act for Taylor Swift. Why, Like, hey, I should
be a headliner? Like that's great, you should be Or
you can use the attention of her tour to propel
(13:50):
your career to height sun now heights on. Now, do
you guys remember that time slot? This is again, if
you're a child of the nineties, if you're a child
of the nineties. You remember Must See TV on NBC, right,
and you had Cosby Show into Cheers and you had
that time slot in the middle. Most of it was
(14:12):
for a long time. It was a different world, remember,
a different world and whatever That eight thirties show was
got a huge number, not because it was a great show,
but because it was in between two of the greatest
shows on television, you know, and then it became Seinfelden
Friends whatever. Same thing. But the point is that you
(14:37):
can either use the rise in popularity for good or
you can fight against it. And it feels like the
WNBA is fighting against it, and they keep pushing us
Angel Reese, Angel Reese, Angel Rees, Angel Reese, and you're like,
you keep pushing it, and I just I don't. It
doesn't feel good to me. It feels like bitterness. It
(14:57):
feels like jealousy. It feels like you've been weaponizing yourself
for twenty five years of not being paid attention to.
Then we pay attention to You're like, now you're not
paying attention to the right stuff. Here we are again
with another WNBA story of not using the popularity of
(15:18):
Caitlin Clark to grow the game because you put Caitlin
Clark on that cover. The thing sells out in minutes, minutes,
and when it sells out, inevitably they'll be I don't know,
a third or half the number of people who buy
it have never bought a video game ever before. And
if even half of those people throw it in and
play it, that's that's found money. That's a whole new
(15:43):
market that brings people to playing games that have never
played it before. Instead, it's Angel Rees who has a
level of popularity, but it is a fraction of that
of Kaitlin Clark. We got a lot to get to.
We've got Cooper Flag versus Brownie. That's tomorrow in Vegas.
We got herdline news. But coming up next here in
(16:06):
The Herd. Wait to hear what Kad said about his
time with the Brooklyn Nets. That's next.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Hey what's up everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Arrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game? What is up on Game?
You asked along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutschman
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
(16:45):
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with me LeVar Arrington, TJ. Huschman, Zada,
and Plexico Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
where ever you get your podcast frob.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
As for Steve Nash, that's kd's former head coach when
he was in Brooklyn. Here's KD this week talking about
his time in Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
I don't think we didn't get the full Steve Nash
like I want it, like you probably wanted. I just
felt like it was just too much, too many distractions
in a way, and you know you can't win that way.
But I felt like we had great intentions though. I
feel like we cared enough. I feel like every day
we were trying to push towards winning the champion. It
(17:33):
was a great vibe, man. It's some of the best
times out that first year. That's why I saw that
deal that first year. Man, most fun ball I had
some of the most fun ball I had planning my
whole life. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So obviously it's a different spin on kd's time in Brooklyn,
which is generally seen as a failure, a failed experiment.
And I know Colin likes to point out like, you're
putting your career in the hands of Kyrie, and you know,
Kyrie Irving, among other things, got hurt, and he got hurt.
(18:08):
And that was the year, you know, without throwing Kyrie
under the bus, Kyrie was under the bus from that year.
That was the year that Remember, Kyrie was the post COVID.
He didn't want to take a BAX, couldn't play at home.
Then eventually he got to play later on the year. Uh.
You fast forward to the next season and Kevin Durant
(18:30):
they nearly beat the champions, the Milwaukee Bucks, if not
for his foot being online. And that was without Kyrie
Irving was hurt. And of course James Harden had the
pulled hamstring that he was trying to play through. He
had the Ben Simmons thing. Look every athlete, every place
(18:52):
you work, when you move around, he'd like, man, it
would have worked if but it didn't. You got to
work through those stages of grief, be whore. You get
to through the to the acceptance level, right, And I'm
I'm sure there's a Hey, it's really hard to coach
when you have all these other don't know if Kyrie's
(19:14):
gonna play tonight or if he's he allowed to play.
Ben Simmons, what's his deal? James Harden, Remember he wanted
to be traded and then he had. He was constantly hurt.
He don't want to play any defense, like it's a
lot and you know, again, if you parse his words,
you're like, oh, well, he had more fun there than
(19:35):
playing in Golden State. I think for KD. You know,
if you really cut down to brass tacks, it's got
to be hard because Lebron's sitting there, you know, and
Lebron's pretending to be everybody's best friend, or maybe wants
to be everybody's best friend now. But the reality is
Kevin Durant was an MVP by the way, three time
(19:59):
runner up for Envy, but an MVP in Oklahoma City.
They come within a game of beating Oklahoma City. Then
he's a free agent. He goes to Golden State and
they win two titles, probably would have won the third
and not torn as Achilles Tenen. And I'm sure at
that point in time he was trying to show, hey,
(20:20):
I am the best player in the world. I just
am not surrounded by enough space to where I can
show you that I can score on anybody, including Lebron
James in the NBA Finals, which he did. But most people,
or many people's reaction continues to be, you join the
seventy three win team, I congrats you won an NBA
title on this show at the time and since I've
(20:44):
repeatedly told you, okay, why do we pay attention to
the number of wins of that team? Yet? Ever since,
right in the ten years since, how many times the
team of the best record this year obviously best record
won the title but did so in seven games? How
many teams those teams ever got to the finals? Just
(21:06):
like there's not really a correlation between college success and
professionals success in football and in basketball, there's not really
the correlation for the most part, between regular season success
and posting and said, there's just not right, There's just
not And that seventy three win team, okay, probably should
(21:26):
have won the NBA title Andrew Boga got hurt, and
then Dremond Green got suspended, and even then it took
an incredible Game seven from a loaded Cleveland Cavaliers team
to beat him. So they instead of doing strength in numbers,
they gutted their roster. They moved on from Harrison Barnes,
and they got Kevin Durant. I'm sure in his mind
(21:48):
he's like, look, dude, here I am. I think on
the best player in the world and on the biggest stage.
I was the best player in the NBA finals two
consecutive years, guarded by Lebron James. I was better than
the second half where it matters. But he didn't get
he didn't get the positive uh accolades that he felt
(22:09):
like he deserved. So he goes to Brooklyn Mine. You
don't like it when I joined the team. We'll build
one on our own. We found a coach who was
a former player that we could all you know, I mean,
it's not his fault, Like yeah, I mean I understand
what Colin's saying, where it's like, okay, Kyrie saying we
don't need a head coach and having all of these
(22:30):
guys like a James Harden oora Ben Simmons that have
their own flaws, no matter how talented, like it was
a recipe for a disaster, despite that they were within
one toe being on the line of beating Milwaukee Bucks
who won the title. But KD trying to have the
back of Steve Nashton saying hey, he really didn't get
(22:51):
the coach. Does paint us a picture of just how
chaotic that franchise must have been. But I will tell you,
and this is again from personal experience, no matter how chaotic,
you either break through as a coach and demand that
you are a coach. And I know it's different in
the NBA when those guys are worth half a billion dollars.
(23:13):
Or you don't coach, you don't coach. So gotta be
Isshue thirty six, working on thirty seven and now with
probably one or two more shots at a title. And
that's what I think. Katie probably thinks he needs to
put himself on a mount Rushmore that he'll probably never
(23:34):
be able to get to, despite the fact that I
think he belongs there. I think he's the best scorer
of this generation post Carmelo Anthony and his game evolved
more than Carmelo Anthony's did in terms of three point
shooting and playing face in the basket, whereas Carmelo was
unbelievable score for a time, mostly in the post in
the midrange. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news.
(23:58):
No new, this.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Is the herd Line news.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
All right, Doug, we'll stay in the association. Talk some
NBA here. The Celtics major movers this offseason, dumping salaries
and players left and right. Well, Boston's president of basketball Operations,
Brad Stevens, had this explanation for all of these moves
in the offseason, the.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
Second aprons, Why those trades happened. I think that those
are pretty obvious, and the basketball penalty associated with us
are real. We've all talked about that. That was part
of making the decision to push and put our chips
on the table and go forth the last two years.
But we've known for a long time the hard decisions
were coming, and I think of the agents and players
have known that too. I mean, that's been pretty well communicated.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
So pretty clear that the Celtics were looking to get
underneath that second apron, which is highly highly prohibitive against
making any future down the line. And in addition, to this.
He's also put an emphasis on the fact that people
keep using the term rebuild, and he said that's not
(25:10):
going to be a part of the lexicon in our
building and the way we're going to focus moving forward.
He wants them to quote, compete like hell to win
the next game.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Look, do I think the Celtics will be better than
anyone could perceive without Jason Tatum? Yeah? Do I think
he gives Jalen Brown a chance to show he can
lead a team? Absolutely, But when you have three hundred
million tied up into two guys and one of them
can't use his left hand, the other one is coming
off in Achilles, gonna be hard. But what he's been
(25:47):
able to do in manipulating that roster and figuring all out.
As good a coach as Brad is, he might be
a better executive, Yeah, might be a better executive.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Arkable but it so.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
One of the sort of talking points that Boston has
held on to this offseason was that the Jason Tatum injury,
specifically in a vacuum, did not necessarily change the moves
that they were already intending to make to avoid that
second apron. Do you buy that?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Uh? Yeah, Yeah, I mean they were gonna move prezingis
I mean that thing was that wasn't I mean, barely
played last year, he wasn't, right, Sure, you know they
and they Horford was one of those. I'm sure they
wanted to make an offer whatever, but at thirty nine,
it was probably best he moved on. And the same
thing with Drew Holiday, Like, Drew's tremendous, but it's some
(26:47):
I'm sure that was all part of the plan. You know,
Drew not happy about being in Portland, but I'm sure
he'll end up finding a place to a team that
wants could bee for a title.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, I actually do buy that. I do. I think
that the plan is still in place and that they
haven't you know, totally. I think the Anthony Simmons one
would be the Simons excuse me, that's the one that like,
all right, would they have acquired him if they had
Jason Tatum, probably not, But the guys they moved on from. Yeah,
(27:18):
I think that was part of the plan all alone. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
It also I tend to believe that and agree with
you in the sense that we know that the Celtics
have been aggressive with making moves and as you said,
Brad Stevens maybe a better front office executive than he
even was as a very successful head coach. And we
tend to forget like the Knicks were in real control
(27:42):
of that series with a healthy Jason Tatum. So I
think there were some early indications that even withinside the building,
Boston may have been looking at that as we can't
just sit here and assume that we were ready to
win another title if Jason Tatum hadn't gotten hurt. The Knicks,
who now look at as a seriously flawed team, we're
(28:03):
very much in position to win that with a healthy
Jason Tatum.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I tend to Ageah, I mean, they stole they
stole Game one. I mean that was that was a
big part of it. Sure, uh, and they were in
control before Jason Tatum went down. But I think the
Persingis thing was really you know, it's I also think
it's really interesting what's happened in Dallas. You have a
guy who builds a championship roster. They go to the
(28:27):
finals last year, and part of building that was he
moved off of Perzingis because Persingis is always hurt. And
then Boston was able to just keep him patch together
to win one NBA championship and you know this year
again he's always hurt. It's always something so uh but yeah,
I mean, I think they were going to move on
(28:47):
from presingas they were going to move on from Al Horford.
They were gonna move on, uh probably from Drew Holiday
as well at the end of the year, regardless of
winner loss. I'm sure that was part of their players.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
All right to the NFL. Travis Kelcey he will be
back for or a thirteenth season in the NFL in
with the Kansas City Chiefs, but his production has dropped
off in the last two seasons and last season most notably.
Part of his decision to come back was that he
didn't want to go out like that. He felt like
he let his teammates down well. Brett Beach, general manager
(29:19):
of the Kansas City Chiefs, had this to say about
Travis Kelcey at the end of his career and where
he's at at this point as a playmaker, saying, quote,
the great ones know how to find it, They know
where it's buried, they know how to access it. They
can't access it at that age week in and week out,
but when they need it, they know how to find it.
(29:42):
This might be it. That's sometimes what we're like with Travis.
But when the games are most important and the lights
of the brightest, he finds it somewhere.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, that's about right. Right, that's about right, Like he
doesn't have it on a daily basis, but when needed,
he can still dial it up. I think can't see
it's gonna be interesting, right because they continue to figure
out a way to get it done despite the fact
that they don't over you know, there's not playmakers that
strike fear in people's hearts. So again I'm interested. And
(30:18):
the other part to it is most most NFL people
will tell you, like, once you start to think about
ree and retired, you are. I think he's really thought
about it, So again, be interest to see how he
comes back from her.
Speaker 6 (30:30):
Yeah, to your point, So what will will be interesting
to see about Travis this upcoming season is the production
dipped slightly two seasons ago. But what we saw in
the regular season wasn't the same as during the postseason
where he had those big moments. This year, it just
(30:54):
felt like the production had really dropped off and he
wasn't totally able to tap into that next gear quite
like he had the press season. Now he has taken
full ownership of it. He's admitted that, you know, in
the offseason he could have done better with taking care
of his body, and he's taken a different approach this year.
So we'll see if he can sort of turn back
(31:14):
the clock. But it feels like for a guy playing
that position at this age, at this point in his career,
it would be hard to sort of reverse course from
where the trend is headed. But obviously for someone who's
been as productive and successful as he's been in his career,
and with Pat Mahomes throwing him the ball, it's not impossible.
(31:34):
We'll wrap up with this staying in the NFL. TJ
Watt holding firm on wanting a new contract that pays
him inline or more than Miles Garrett, who now makes
forty million per year on average, well Adam Schefter reporting
the two sides still far apart on a new deal.
Watt has been withholding from team activities in hopes of
(31:56):
that new deal, and has at least stated not publicly,
but the expectation is that he would be willing to
hold out of training camp or hold in whatever they
do these days to get that new deal.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I think I think Pittsburgh you mentioned Collins mentioned
it going all in. I think they want to let
the season play out and then figure out what's what,
who they want to keep, what they don't, And there's
a world where they let the match and start over,
including the coaching staff. There's a world in which they
have a great season. And even Aaron Rodgers did leave
the door slightly cracked. I think it's my last season.
We'll see and that's why music with news.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It's that time of year where there's an over hyped
fake game that brings you to the TV to watch
Summer League in the NBA. What game is it this year?
What should proper expectations be towards Brownie James? I will
tell you next time. Doug Gotlieb, this is the Herd.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter and Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Doug Glliman for Collins, I heard Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio app.
Let's let's discuss this NBA Summer League stuff. So you
got the stats there Ryan Music for Ronnie in two
Summer League games. Now, first Summer League game had ten
(33:27):
to a half, ended up with ten, didn't play huge minutes,
but did play enough, and then played yesterday and really struggled. Right,
was the combined stats that you had.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
So yeah, he hasn't played heavy minutes in either game,
but if you combine them, he has played twenty six
minutes over two games. He scored twelve points. But it's
the shooting and the lack of efficiency which has become
a problem because he's four of twelve from the field,
two of seven from three.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, and he shot it I think an airbar or
two in yesterday's game. They played at the at the
Warriors Arena. Here's the reality to it, okay, And somehow
I know that every time we post something he get
to the why are you talking about lebron or lebron
a or whatever like, Well, we talk about lots of topics.
(34:23):
Bronnie James and Cooper Flag on opposing teams on opening
night of Summer League is going to be a thing.
And what we talk about on Fox Sports Radio are
the things are the important things we don't deally dally
and things that people don't care about. That's what bad
radio cu bad sports radio networks do. We focus on
(34:43):
what people talk about the most. That'll be talking about that.
So the expectations for a second year pro, and these
are reasonable expectations, are for you to dominate in summer league.
You've played in the NBA, You've played a against the best,
you've practiced against the best. You've been through an NBA season.
(35:05):
You know whatever sets you're running again, they're not running
anything ornate, but you've done it on an NBA floor,
you know all the tricks. You get a little bit
more respect from the officials. The expectations are for you
to be dominant, the best player on the floor. Now
here's why it's unrealistic for Bronnie James. He might have
had one G League game like that this year, maybe.
(35:29):
And I mean I never watched him outside of videos
prior to when he moved to Los Angeles, but I
saw him play in high school in aau in Los Angeles,
and there was never a time which he was absolutely
the best player on a high school floor or on
a college floor. And so it does feel like unrealistic
(35:50):
expectations that he'll be the best player on a summer
league floor, not because you're not supposed to win, you're
an NBA player, you are, but because that's never been him.
As for Cooper Flag, I am intrigued by how he's used,
how he's played. We have seen him dominate at Again,
(36:12):
here's the difference, right, Here's a kid who was the
best player when he played sixteens, was the best player
last summer, was the best player at Duke, and at
times this year on college basketball floors he was the
best player. Does that mean he'll be the best player
now opening nights? We've seen Wemby struggle opening night. Now
he'd just gotten off a plane from France. We've seen
(36:34):
other guys like Lebron dominating opening nights. Obviously he's Lebron
is a little bit different. But usually number one picks
are sort of like golf. Around of golf, there's one
or two things that make you want to come back, ooh, ooh, ooh,
(36:55):
there's something there. So proper expectations for Cooper Flag are ooh,
one or two things. Proper expectations for Bronnie James are, Hey, dude,
at some point, you gotta be the best player floor.
You played in the NBA last season and you're playing
against eighty percent of those guys are not NBA players,
(37:15):
maybe more and more, and you had three more years
of guaranteed deals and I and I you know, you
can't undersell this enough. Like the Lakers spent most of
this year with their G League team focusing on the
development of Bronnie James, which I'm sure is part of
kind of this recent pushback where they're like not really
(37:38):
about lebron which is like, dude, really, like you're not
all for us, all for winning a championship. And we
basically create, you know, changed our G league roster, and
he traveled sometimes, didn't travel for the first part of
the year, then did travel some that he's called up
a bunch. Then we played him some in the NBA,
(37:59):
like we did all the things for Ronnie James, like
it's not really an NBA player, and then oh yeah,
by the way, you have there. You have read various
people who covered the NBA have said they expectations are
that they think next year he'll be in the rotation.
If you're an NBA rotational player, you should be dominating
summer league. I play with the Lakers in the summer League,
(38:25):
Slava Dvedenko and Devin George were dominant. They took all
the shots, they had all the points, they knew all
the sets, they knew everything, and they were bit players
on those Lakers teams. That's how it works. Hasn't changed,
won't change, and that that first year, but that first
summer between rookie year and second year, that's the most
(38:47):
important summer of your NBA career. You've got to make
big strides. And the first big strides you got to
make is dominate in the Summer League. It's just a
mentality thing that has to match up to your skill set.
And my issue with it is only we haven't seen
him do that before, so the likelihood of him doing
(39:09):
it doesn't feel great, Doug.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
To your point about the attention and the interest in
this upcoming game between the Mavericks and the Lakers in
the Summer League, Anthony Slater, who we had on earlier
on the show, pointed this out. But some of these
statistics online floating about is that the average ticket price
(39:35):
for a Summer League game that counts for absolutely nothing
is going for about two hundred and twenty three dollars
and courtside seats are looking to be over three thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
First of all, I just so we're aware, I don't
buy that. I know what's been reported, but again, like
I don't really do you think anybody's really shelling out
three thousand bucks? Maybe?
Speaker 6 (40:02):
Yeah, I feels like here's now part of it.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Also, remember that event is a kind of a who's
who have it's This is like the NBA's convention, right,
Free agents meet there, agents meet there. You have international
players there, international agents are there, international teams come to
scout because most of those players will go play overseas.
Whatever it is. Then that opening night is a who's who.
And you know, I mean, like look, Cooper, Flag's gonna
(40:29):
I mean, Kyrie is gonna be there. I'm sure the
guess is Lebron's going to be there. Right, So you're
not necessarily just buying a ticket to watch the game.
You're buying a ticket to like basically going to a
club before everybody goes out to a club exactly.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
And that's what I was going to say, is the
only reason I'm willing to buy that this is a
possibility is because it's in Vegas. So if I'm gonna
believe that guys go to Vegas and they'll drop ten
grand on a table in a nightclub to pop bottles
of champagne, which from the supermarket go for much less
than that. I fully believe that in order to flex
(41:04):
those same muscles as a hey, look at me, why
wouldn't someone drop a couple thousand dollars to be able
to be courtside to watch Cooper flag and be able
to sit next to Lebron James.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, although you'll never get next to Lebron James, right,
and sure, and you're gonna watch Cooper flag and maybe
he plays twenty minutes and whatever.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
Again, I'm not saying it's a smart thing to do,
but I totally see it happening. For sure.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
If you have twenty five hundred dollars in Vegas, is
that the best way to allocate your resources?
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Absolutely not. But there's a lot of things. There's a
lot of poor financial decisions happening.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Yeah, correct, it is. It is a. It is a
It's like my old college coach, coach, and he said,
we played in Vegas against UNLB two years in a
row on the road, and both years we got out
the planet. He's like, man, look at them skyscraper's brother.
They don't keep building them because the house loses. That
is the land. It's not just sin City, but the
land of bad financial decisions. All right, have you missed
(42:04):
any today's show? Check out the podcast. Meanwhile, future dates,
Listen to Doug Gottlieb show This Is the Hurt on
Fox Sports Radio.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.