July 18, 2024 • 34 mins
USC head coach Eric Musselman joins the show to talk about his time working in the NBA and the current state of college basketball vs the influx of international players to the NBA draft
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go, our number three live in Los Angeles.
It's the Hurt Jmak. You and I are Caitlin Clark fans.
We both could not believe she did not get the
Olympic knot this morning. To start the show three hours ago,
I said, I found it incredulous. I did give the
a w NBA credit for getting her on the All
Star team back of the bench, but I found it
incredible she was not in the skills competition because she's
(00:49):
built for that. Well. The Associated Press is reported that
she was offered it but turned it down. I don't
want to be a cynic and WN may be protecting themselves.
I don't want to be a simp. Let's just say
that's right. So I badgered him for that little bit.
If she turned it down, she's built for it. Would
I would pay her to go performing that, I would,
(01:11):
you know. But anyway, my rule is more Caitlin Clark.
Get her in the Olympics, just to show you how
well she's playing. She leads the WNBA in assists per
game the whole league. On a bad team, it would
be the highest assists per game by any rookie in
league history. She's the fastest player in league history to
get to four hundred points and two hundred assists. She's
Magic Johnson. She's Steph Curry, one of two players ever
(01:34):
to rank top fifteen in points, rebound, assists, steals, in blocks.
She in July she averaged twenty and a half a
game and twelve and a half points. Get her on
the Olympics. Get her in the All Star Game. Get
her in the skills competition. They got Michael Jordan into
the Dunk Contest as a rookie. Get her on everything,
Get her in everything. She's on pace to be the
(01:58):
first player in NBA or NBA history to lead the
NCAA and NTAA and assists, then lead the league in assists.
Magic didn't even do that. Magic didn't do that. She
gets it. You write her a million dollar check under
the table and you get her into the skills competition,
you do it. You pay her under the table, you
(02:19):
pay her through a shoe company. You get her in there.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
To be honest, did you even know there was a
WNBA skills competition? I did not.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I was in a work But the associate press is
saying this morning after a show started this morning, apparently
they said she turned it down. Don't let her say no. Hey,
how about the stat There's a lot of things I've
said no to the bosses in my life. If you
want to get done, make it get done.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So Cayler Clark has twenty two blocks this season.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's weird.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
That's amazing for a guard. It's a middle Reese a
center has ten.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
How wow.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Cayler Clark's hustling, trying on defense, setting up the offense,
shooting three.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Dana White and the US he was more successful than
the WNBA was. But when Dana White got Connor McGregor,
you just got him on every big card you did
with Bryce Harper, like you. Networks like Fox are like
we're putting the Phillies on television. You just make stuff work.
(03:18):
You just more. Caitlin, she is the Taylor Swift and
sneakers for a sport that's never made a profit.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, give the people what they want, right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's basketball. We're not asking her to lift heavy things yet.
So anyway, So, so she is, she isn't in the
Olympic team. She's not in the skills they have. At
least we got to give the WNBA credit. They got
her in the All Star Game.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
But is that voted on as voter on she was
the number one vote get her by a mile.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, Yeah, so they didn't even have a choice s So,
so basically the fans, So we can't give the WNBA
credit for that. The fans did that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Just remember last sixteen years, zero games with one million
TV viewers every game for Clark this season except one
over a million viewers every game.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Eric Musselman, interesting guest's going to be joining us in
about twenty minutes. Well, Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid both
good players. Obviously they're vying for a starting spot in
the US Olympic team. But after seeing yesterday's game versus Serbia,
it kind of proved my point here. I think Ad
simply a better player than Joel Embiid.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Well, I really think you're going to like our next guest.
If you're a basketball fan, pro or college, you know
who Eric Musselman is. He's a new coach at USC.
He coached in the NBA as a head coach with
the Warriors and Kings. He was an assistant Magic, Hawks, Grizzlies,
t Wolves. He's coached under Chuck Day, worked under Jerry West.
Now he's dealing Doc Rivers. Mike Furtello, You've got such
(04:54):
a labyrinth of college and pro basketball stories. One of
the things I want to start with is Jerry West
recently passed away. I can remember the Powe gasol trade
when they got Kobe got Paw gasol, and Jerry West
was engineering this whole thing. I remember being on a
plane on the tarmac and I called a friend and
(05:16):
I said, did you see the Pow gasol trade? Who
engineered that? My buddy's like, I think it's Jerry West.
Jerry was the guy that told the Warriors move off
monte He's great. Go Steph. What was the secret sauce?
Because you're a basketball savant. I mean, that's your reputation intense,
you know the sport. When you're around Jerry, to you,
(05:40):
what was the secret sauce with Jerry? What made him
so I mean he obviously had great experience eric, but
what was it like to be around him and pick
his brain?
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Well, he was so competitive will the win was beyond belief.
Everybody in pro sports is pretty competitive, but he took
it to another level. In the draft room, he was
a competitive person. I remember being a part of two
drafts with him, and the intensity in the draft room
was incredible. And then you look back at like his
(06:10):
time in Memphis, which is when I had the opportunity.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
To work with him. Look at who he hired as
a coach.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
It's Hubie Brown, and Hubie Brown had been out of
coaching for I think fourteen or fifteen years, so he
brought Hubie Brown out of retirement basically to coach. And
then when Huby retired, he brings Mike Fritella, who had
been out of coaching for seven years. And the reason
I thought that's so unique is Jerry West really pro player.
(06:37):
But he went out and got true coaches that were
not former players necessarily, and I always thought that was
really unique. But it's because he thought those two guys
were the best coaches at that time for the organization.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
So his long term vision unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
But I do remember the first time I talked to
I was coaching the Warriors and there was a trade
made and all of a sudden, a couple of days later,
at the secretary for the Warriors said hey, Jerry West.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
Is on the line. I'm like, man, the logo, what
you know?
Speaker 5 (07:11):
So I pick up the phone and he goes, hey,
so and so just got traded to you. As a
young coach. I just want you to know you'll never
make it. You'll get fired. He'll get you fired.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Click.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
I'm like, oh wow, I'm thirty.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Some years old, head coach in the NBA and the
logo just called me and told me the guy we
traded for is gonna get me fired.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
And I had to coach the game. So but he
was pretty close to being right.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Let's talk. I asked you during the break. This fascinating.
I said, you coached in the NBA as an assistant
and a head coach. You were young, I said, and
you're known as a strategist. You are a guy that
is working. You're working the chalk both sides, you're working
the refs, you're working your team, you're working your assistance.
Was there ever a guy I asked you that was
intimidatingly good at strategy and the name you gave.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Was here be Brown.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
I remember the first time we played Memphis when I
was with the Warriors, I told our staff we got
to be up at least nine or ten heading into
the two minute timeout because if not, we got no chance.
Speaker 6 (08:16):
Because he was coach.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Brown was so great late game, and I had worked
for him several years before that and saw what he
did in timeouts, the preparation and how he could take
a play pattern and alter it on the fly and
make it simple through his instructions in the timeouts. Never
seen anything like it in my life, And so I
knew then going against him, like, hey, I cannot out
(08:42):
coach this guy in the last two minutes. And so
I larned our staff like, hey man, we gotta have
doublegg leader.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
What's over? You also coached under Chuck Daily, the legendary
I mean he was He and pat Riley. They looked
like CEOs. The suit and.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
Coach Daily would let you know it too.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
He would tell you get out of the mirror, I
need the mir space, pregame like your assistant coach be,
you know, getting his tied done right, And Coach Daily
he'd walk right up, I need the mirror, now move please.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Now he had that ego and the vanity and the gravitass,
but yet it worked and a lot of times players
would be turned off by that. What was something about
Coach Daily that was a marvel to you?
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Well, he could always predict the future. It was absolutely unbelievable.
He would see thing like he would say, hey, in
ten games, we're going to be super tired, and then
ten games would go by and we'd be super tired.
Like he could always figure out the nuances of his team.
The most amazing thing is he had this presence, this
(09:48):
air about him, but he really had no ego. It
was unbelievable, Like he looked at himself like an average guy.
Now the dressing part was super important to man and
never every road trip he wanted to go shopping.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Every road trip, just like McIntire so.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
But in all reality he was a true players coach
like he in practice he really believed in giving the
assistant coaches a voice. He said that when he spoke
in a huddle, he wanted to be like E. F.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Hutton.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
He wanted everybody to listen all ears towards him, so
he felt like they didn't need to hear his voice
all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That is really smart. He was really smart. So he
wanted he was a word efficiency guy, No question, assistance
can barket practice. When I talk, it's game meaningful.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
No doubt.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
And he talked about how he broke down how many
meetings you truly have in a twenty four hour game day.
You think about all the timeouts, you think about pre practice,
think about shoot around, You think about your forty minute meeting,
You think about your meeting at twenty minute. So he said,
all these meetings, think about how tired the player's ears
are of listening to the same voice, so the same
(10:58):
message over and over. So he was really careful not
to use a lot of words in front of his players.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Guy, that's so smart. You know. Dan Hurley is the
coach of the moment in college basketball. I didn't think
the Lakers was a good fit. I said, listen when
I saw him at a Billy Joel Concert a day
later with his wife. I'm like, he's a New Yorker.
He not coming out to La la la land. But
I said, I didn't know, and I think he's great.
(11:24):
I said, I don't think Bill Belichick would have been
a good college coach, but yet I think John Gruden
would have been. Stylistically, you worked in both. I said,
I don't know if Dan has the patience or the
league has the patience for him as an NBA coach.
If you go look at Rhode Island, if you go
look at his jobs, he deconstructs. Lakers don't like deconstruct job, right,
(11:48):
they got Lebron and Ad tell me that, what do
you think Hurley would have worked? And I think he's
the best college coach. Now, yep, you think it would
have worked in the NBA. Did he make the right
choice staying at Yukon?
Speaker 6 (12:01):
You know, I think his that's you know, his choice
is his choice.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
But I do think that any great coach UH would
come to find out really quickly that professional sports is
a players league and it's way more of a partnership.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
UH.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
And if the if you don't turn it into a partnership,
you just cannot last in that league at all. And
I think coach Hurley is so smart and so brilliant
that he would have figured that out really really quickly if.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
He wouldn't already know it, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
I think that a lot of college coaches that are
thinking about the NBA level. I think if you talk
to enough NBA coaches, head coaches or assistant coaches, I
think you understand really quickly that you have got to partner,
especially with your star players, and if you don't, you're
just you're just not.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Gonna make it, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
I mean, the players are going to control so much
in that league, and for good reason, they are the
star of the show.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I am a fan of college basketball. I do think,
in just my opinion, the NBA kind of with Adam Silver,
demonized it. And I always think college football is the
best microwave. So by the time a kid Tim Tebow
goes to the NFL, he's a household name. I know
Zion because of Nike and Duke. I have a feeling
that the nil will keep a few players around, maybe
(13:24):
like a Zach Edy for one more year, and will
actually you'll be able to get a kid that may
have been a g leaguer, and it's like, Kansas is
gonna pay me four to fifty, I'm gonna go to Kansas.
That's I'm on the outside. I think the NIL could
actually fortify college basketball. It's still a revolving door of talent.
What do you think it can the NIL? Because everybody
(13:46):
laments the NIL, and but I think to myself, could
it actually help the sport?
Speaker 6 (13:52):
I think it can help the sport with certain players.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
But I think you know, a year ago, we had
Anthony Black, who was a lot of pick, and there
was never a discussion with Anthony or his mother, Jennifer.
There was never a discussion about, hey, let's have Anthony
come back.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
And he can make name, image and likeness because he's
a lottery pick. After one year, you're a one and done,
you got to go.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
But I do think for certain players that are maybe
marginal guys, because if you're talking about a player who's
a late second round draft pick.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
He's a star in college.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
So I do think some guys that are borderline maybe
forty five to sixty picks, maybe those guys can participate
in college for one more year and have a little
bit more patience and then when they're ready to go pro.
Maybe they go from sixty to now thirty eight in
the following draft. And so if you can have those
conversations that make sense and a player can make more
(14:46):
money over time based on his draft value, and then
it also elevates a player when you look at marketing
opportunities once he does get to the NBA, because let's
face the facts, somebody like Carmelo Anthony when he plays
the one one year at Syracuse, that elevates his marketing
as well. Oh, no question, same thing with Kevin Durant
at Texas. So I think college can be really, really
(15:09):
good from a marketing.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Stand I totally agree.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
So I think there's some great things with it.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, Plus the programs all have deals with Nike, Adidas.
I mean, so you get you're gonna get those companies
behind you as well. The you know, it's really interesting
when you it does appear to me the AAU system
is a bit broken. I tend to think America has
the most good basketball players, but the top five or
six guys in this league are increasingly international players. And
(15:37):
I don't think it's because our kids don't work hard
or they're not good people or good I think what
happens is the European system, whereas it's an academy. Yep,
you play fewer games, the games mean more. You play
against older players. AAU is a million games on the weekend.
It's all about getting the bag. I think the system
(16:00):
right now is better in Europe than here. You can't,
you know, bad mouth AAU because you're recruiting in all
the time. But is there an argument to be made
that the European system, if we could tweak ours, that
they do some things better at a fundamental level early
than we do.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
There's no question right now when you look at the
draft and if you go back crazy, yeah, it's crazy.
I mean you think about you know, thirty years ago,
you know the Atlanta Hawks and stan Casting were way
ahead of the game when when it was came to
evaluating overseas. And I remember the draft with Dirk Nowitzki.
I was in Orlando at the time and three weeks
(16:40):
before the draft, we did not know who Dirk was.
That's how far scouting and everything has come too. That
wasn't that long ago. But now the coaching overseas absolutely phenomenal.
Some of the best coaches in the world are not
coaching in the United States. And for so many years,
great American coaches went over their coach, did clinics, taught
(17:04):
the game the way that the Americans played. Now the coaching,
we're stealing ideas and.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Schemes from them. It's amazing. Even NBA teams.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
There's a lot of NBA teams, Hey, let's go get
so and so to be an assistant coach because he's
so creative, offensive minded, and he's been coaching in.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Italy or Spain or Serbia or wherever.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
And then you think about the player and the level
of talent right now, if you could project another ten
to fifteen years what the NBA draft's going to look like,
it might look a lot like baseball, where you're talking
about a lot of Dominican Republic players and you're talking
about a lot of Venezuelan players dominating the draft. It
might turn that quickly with basketball as well, because it's
(17:48):
trending in that direction right now. Unless we can fix
some of the grassroots stuff that's going on here in
the US.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I gotta tell I used to cover tarc so I
need you to be vulnerable here because I ask.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
All that I roomed with's son at the University of
San Diego.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
George Tarkanian, Oh.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
George Dark Yes, So I've said this before. I we
love this game. I wish I was an NFLGM. I
thought Jan Dixon out of Maryland was gonna roll in
the league. I loved him, and I later found out
he was a tweeter. So there Don McClain. I was
sitting with tark and I said he would played at
Seemi Valley or something and great legendary basketball player now
(18:27):
a cliper announcer. I'm like Tark I was watching him
at a tournament Vegas. I'm like, I don't get it.
He doesn't jump, he scores. It's I don't in. Tark's like,
he's gonna be all NBA. So tark knew his stuff,
so I love I remember tell Mike Dunlavy, yell, Ming's
just another tall guy. He's like, he's gonna be unbelievable.
So I whipped a million guys. Give me a guy
(18:49):
two of them that you spotted early and wasn't a
big recruit, but you really you feel like it nailed him.
And has there ever been a great player that you
didn't buy and you looked up five years later and went, Wow,
that kid had a lot of heart and really made
himself into something.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
I would say if I had to look back and
think about a player that maybe I didn't think was
gonna be a unbelievable player. I went Orlando Magic general
manager John Gabriel asked me to go watch Vince Carter
play against Bethune Cookman.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
In Daytona Beach.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
He could jump, and I went over there and I
watched him and he was always grabbing a body part,
you know, but and his athleticism was awesome. But I
was like, I told Gabe, I said, I don't know
if he can really be an NBA All Star. And
that's the one guy. That's why you can't go watch
a guy one time. Because obviously Vince Carter was unbelievable,
(19:48):
but it was a forty minute game. I watched him
play probably twenty some minutes because it was a blowout game,
and I came away and was like, I'm not sure.
And that I look back and said, boy, are you stupid?
Which is also why you've got to constantly call people
that are either coaching him in the training.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Jerry West secret, you have to now give me a
guy that you found you guys all have somebody that
you loved early.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Yeah, I say a guy that.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Darren Fox as a as a young player of him.
I watched him for about thirty seconds, and I don't
know where he was ranked at the time because I
had just entered college basketball, but I remember watching him.
It took like two or three minutes to say, this
guy is just different. He's on a whole other level.
And I think that the more you do this college
(20:39):
recruiting stuff, that the stars that are just guys that
are going to be lottery picks, they're easy. You don't
have to convince yourself that they're good. You automatically can
say that guy's going to be a lottery pick. And
there's not many, but when you see it, you kind
of know it and feel it.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You've coached at Nevada, Arkansas and now USC. It is
a big city, big city media, big city restaurants. Are
LA kids just naturally a little softer, a little more entitled.
I heard years ago a college football coach said, you
come out here. They all got two iPhones in LA
and they got cool shoes and they're all stylish. And
(21:17):
I'm like, he goes, that's not like what they're like
in you know, Wichita State is recruiting an LA kid.
Different at USC.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
I don't really think so.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
I mean I look at you know, when we first
got started at Nevada, the first place I went to
was LA and we ended up getting Lindsey Drew, who
was the starting point guard for US for four years.
And he was an LA kid, And yeah, he he
has a cool factor to him for sure, but his
dad was an NBA head coach. And we felt like
(21:47):
the LA market because of who you're playing against as
a high school player and local AAU events as a
really young player, meaning second, third, fourth grade, they're exposed
to so many great players at a young age that
we actually felt like it's an unbelievable market. And now
obviously being at USC, now it's got to be a
(22:08):
great market for US.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, Eric Musselman joining US, You've coached in the D League,
the Mountain West, the NBA. You've coached U Chuck Daily,
Doc Rivers, Mike Fratello. You've coached Penny Hardaway, Rashid Wallace,
Scottie Pippen, Powe, Gasol. Gasol was a fascinating.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Player, unbelievable offensive player, and a unbelievable IQ was he
was an underrated passer and when you can find a
player that makes Kobe loved him. Oh for a good reason,
because everyone loved playing with him. He was unselfish. He
was a great locker room guy, super ego lists and
was fun to be around. Like he had energy that
(22:49):
you were like, Hey, I want to go hang out
with Paul Gasol.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah. You know. Somebody told me that Penny Hardaway had
the best pre NBA workout. Kobe and Penny Hardaway had
the two best. Now when were you and Penny together?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Yes, so it was would have been Pennies. I think
maybe third year because because he played for Brian.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Hill with the Nick Anderson Shack Yes, Dennis Scott No,
maybe not.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I think Dennis was with him, yes, and then uh
I joined the Magic with Chuck Daily, so that was
Chuck's year and then I was also with the Magic
when Doc came his first year.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
But Penny was.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Part of the year with with Coach Dale and it
was Nick Anderson, Horace Grahant.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Somebody told me he did things in practice that were insane.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Because he was now we talk about positionless players. Yes,
he was the guy that was the positionless player that
could play the point, that he could guard a four man.
He had unbelievable vision, you know, like when you're an
NBA assistant, You're like, I can't wait for the tip
off to see what this guy does. Penny was one
(23:56):
of those guys. So was Jason Williams. White Chocolate was
like when I was with him, I couldn't wait for
the game to start because it was like, this man's
gonna put on a show you and you never knew
what he was gonna do. And there's all you know,
there's these certain guys that just have incredible flare, and
Penny was certainly one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Juju Watkins u USC basketball star, women's basketball star. If
I'd never seen the play, tell me, tell me about
the game, her game.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
I mean, she's well, first of all, she's the biggest
star on campus.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
And that's super cool when you think about women's athletics
that Juju is a national brand right now.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So any with Scout, I'm I'm your GM. I want
you to go Scout Juju. Well, Eric, what tell me
about her?
Speaker 6 (24:46):
She can do everything?
Speaker 5 (24:47):
I mean, she she can draw free throws, attempted. She
can make threes. You talk about a player on a
big stage as a freshman that could take her team
as far she did. How she uses her body, She's
got unbelievable body control. She can finish through contact, she
(25:08):
can seek contact for free throws, attempted, stretch the defense
out with three point shooting. Just had a phenomenal, phenomenal
freshman year. And the shirt I got on this is
actually a Juju Watkins shirt from the bookstore. I went
and I'm like, man, that's a great logo. You know,
I'm in the bookstore looking for stuff. I looked at
the price tager I'm like, wow, like it's one hundred.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
Dollars t shirt. And then I looked at hey, it's
Juju Watkins shirt. Let's get this thing.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
By the way, you're fifty nine and look great. You've
got incredible energy. I think a lot of that from
what I've heard. I talked to people, told him you
were coming on the show. You really love what you do.
You have a great energy. Now I know you have
to get on a plane and recruit. Is recruiting easier
or harder today?
Speaker 6 (25:53):
Well, I've only been doing it for ten years.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
You know collegiately, So I would say that it's become
harder each year that I've been a part of it.
You know, when I was at Nevada, you had to
sit out when you transferred, so we had a great formula.
We felt like, hey, we always want four sitout guys
that we can develop and have patients with. And then
we also that means you only got eight or nine
guys on your active rosters, so they're all happy, So
(26:16):
your locker room is easier. One thing that I don't
think people are talking enough about with this you don't
have to sit out transfer wise, Now you have thirteen
guys on scholarship, there's always going to be three or
four guys that are unhappy, So what is your locker
room like? And it also there's more guys now not
playing and they're losing eligibility while they're not on the floor.
(26:38):
When you had to sit out thing and and you
sat for a year, then you got to you know,
more guys were playing minutes then, and so I think
that's a little bit of development piece because really the
only way to get better truly.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
Is to get significant minutes.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
That's how you improve as a player, where you can
learn on the fly, and you can learn through mistakes,
and you can play through mistakes. And with thirteen active
play on a roster becomes more challenging to let guys
play through their mistakes. But when you have four guys
sitting out, you have no choice. You're rolling with a
core group of seven or eight guys. And I think
(27:12):
guys got better that way.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Jay Wright would get three star guys from the DMV,
build them, they'd stay in college. It was great chemistry.
John Calipari went one and done. That's a way to
do it. If you were at a Kentucky like where
you can do either way, what would you prefer.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
I think you got to have a blend.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
I think that, you know, when I look back at
the group that I had a year ago at Arkansas,
a team that got us to the Sweet sixteen, we
had three freshmen that were one and done's, and I
love that formula. I think if you get a freshman
who's really really talented and is going to be able
to play in the NBA in eight months, what a
challenge as a coach to say, man, I owe, there's
(27:52):
an obligation to make sure this player gets drafted higher
than what's anticipated.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
That's a great challenge.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
It's also an incredible responseility for a coaching staff when
a parent, you know, says, hey, we want this young
man to be developed, to get him ready for the
next level, and you got eight months to do it.
And and I look back a couple of years ago
with Moses Moody, who was a lot of your pick.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
He led us to an Elite eight.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
And the thing that I've learned is you got to
let those guys play early on, and then when you
get to March, then then you'll get the payback. And
it might not happen right away. In non conference. You
might see a team slip up a little bit if
they're playing a young guy that's going to be a
one and done. But you certainly hope come March Madness
that those players can lead you, because in all reality,
(28:41):
you can't win without star players and without players that
are that are you got to win in college with
NBA prospects or you're just marginal team.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, I got burned a few years ago. I watched
Kansas in December and they had some one un donners
and I'm like, they're terrible, And then three months later
they're smoking people to your point, these kids got to grow.
I just felt like I went a graduate seminar of basketball.
Eric Musselman, USC basketball coach, what a pleasure to finally
meet you. You've had a remarkable career, fascinating kick but
(29:09):
at USC.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
Man, Thanks Collin, appreciate you having me out. It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You bet take a break back in a second. The Herd.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Hey, gang, this is Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a
mental Wealth podcast, and every week we will have on
leader from sports entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael phelf,
David Spade, got Fiemi, and also those who can help
us in between the years, anyone from a therapist to
someone like Ed Milette or John Gordon. We've all been
(29:45):
through some sort of adversity to get to the top.
We've all used different tools. Listen to Unbreakable with Jay
Glazer and Mental Wealth podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
With that on the podcast, Eric Musselman, great NBA stories.
Hub Brown, as we thought, is a genius. J mcklanews,
this is the Herdline News all right.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Earlier this week we talked about the top ten quarterbacks
as ranked by executives, coaches, and scouts. Well, now we've
got the wide receiver list and the guy making the
biggest leap is Amaras Saint Brown, who went from unranked
honorable mention last year to now number seven. We have
the full list, which I think is a little bit
garbage at the bottom. Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill, Jamar Chase No,
(30:36):
no real debate there, Ceedee Lamb, DeVante Adams okay, aj Brown, sure,
Amarse Brown Fine.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
But Mike Evans, Stefan Diggs at eight nine?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
What I like you?
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Where the hell is Gira Wilson, Where's Cooper Cup?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I mean they're missing some guys here.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Brandon Luk at ten? Okay, sure fine. I think Auke's
a little higher than ten.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I mean, like Mike Evans has had a great career,
he's not a great receiver now He's just not.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
And Stefan Diggs.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
I don't particularly see it, but yeah, it's a total
snub of Garrett Wilson can't wait for him to go
ham with the gensus here all right, we got breaking
news here. As a next story, Russell Westbrook has been traded.
The paper Clips have traded Russell Westbrook to the Utah
Jazz for Chris Dunn, the former Providence guard who is
a top ten pick.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
However, the Jazz are not keeping Russ.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
It sounds like, according to Woj, they're gonna buy him out.
And according to Woj, this clears a path for Russ
to join the Denver Nuggets. Well, they need some bench production, Okay,
so I dug into this a little bit. It sounded
like in the postseason, Michael Malone didn't trust his young guys.
Peyton Watson, who's a good young player, barely played in
(31:49):
the postseason. He trusts veterans. We know the lebron So
now you get a veteran in Russell Westbrook. They lose
KCP like Russell probably be their sixth man. Russell give
you thirty minutes of one hundred miles an hour. I
think he's a very very productive bench player. Well, if
his mindset is there, well he plays hard. In his
(32:10):
mind he's not a bench player.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Well, but that's what he is on this team. I
think he knows he's not going to start over Yokich,
Murray Gordon or Porter. And by the way that happens.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think they just lost KCP.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So Christian Brown or Russell West, Well, he's not He's
not a shooter. He is he is twenty eight minutes
of intensity and production, and he'll give you that every
night coming off the bench. Yes, yeah, yeah. I think
I've said before, as a bench player late in his career,
if I could get a guy that can give me
thirty minutes of that athletic ability and intensity. I'm not
(32:42):
relying on him. I'm not setting him, I'm not running
my offense through him. But he'll give you sixteen points
off the bench and play thirty minutes of the hardest basketball. Now,
Malone's gonna make him commit to some defense. We'll see.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Fox has me do a gambling for NBA futures, and
I just told him I bet the Nuggets under fifty
two and a half wins. I don't think Russ changes.
I don't think they're gonna be amazing next year. Come
I'll go not top four in the West next year,
not top four. I don't think you realize how loaded
the West is and how they floaded the Nuggets are
(33:16):
a little look at the bench man, it's thin. Is
a long season. Remember Jokis is down not riding horses
in the offseason.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
He's playing in the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Like I'm a little concerned.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
For the When they won the title, they had the
sixteenth best bench scoring. The bench is not.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Gonna be young. That was like three years ago. They
didn't have a history. Now they're every year they're in
the postseason long runs.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
You don't think they're top four in the West. No,
I'll bet you right now. Okay, let's bet the thirty
eighth steak we've ever bet. I've won thirty. I think,
okayc is gonna win the West. Denver is gonna be right.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Well in the regular season.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I'm just saying they'll be the number one seed.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
I think Minnesota is gonna be right there.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Keep your eye on that Julius Randall Karl Anthony Towns trade.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I don't think they're moving all towns.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Jennie back with the news.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the line.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
What an enjoyable show today. And I've got to admit
we called it early. You and I brought our optimistic
shirts on the show, and the show has flown. We're
really an apparel show that does sports takes. Our shirts
brought this positivity, in this light floral sense to the show,
and the show cooked all day. We cooked. See you tomorrow.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go, our number three live in Los Angeles.
It's the Hurt Jmak. You and I are Caitlin Clark fans.
We both could not believe she did not get the
Olympic knot this morning. To start the show three hours ago,
I said, I found it incredulous. I did give the
a w NBA credit for getting her on the All
Star team back of the bench, but I found it
incredible she was not in the skills competition because she's
(00:49):
built for that. Well. The Associated Press is reported that
she was offered it but turned it down. I don't
want to be a cynic and WN may be protecting themselves.
I don't want to be a simp. Let's just say
that's right. So I badgered him for that little bit.
If she turned it down, she's built for it. Would
I would pay her to go performing that, I would,
(01:11):
you know. But anyway, my rule is more Caitlin Clark.
Get her in the Olympics, just to show you how
well she's playing. She leads the WNBA in assists per
game the whole league. On a bad team, it would
be the highest assists per game by any rookie in
league history. She's the fastest player in league history to
get to four hundred points and two hundred assists. She's
Magic Johnson. She's Steph Curry, one of two players ever
(01:34):
to rank top fifteen in points, rebound, assists, steals, in blocks.
She in July she averaged twenty and a half a
game and twelve and a half points. Get her on
the Olympics. Get her in the All Star Game. Get
her in the skills competition. They got Michael Jordan into
the Dunk Contest as a rookie. Get her on everything,
Get her in everything. She's on pace to be the
(01:58):
first player in NBA or NBA history to lead the
NCAA and NTAA and assists, then lead the league in assists.
Magic didn't even do that. Magic didn't do that. She
gets it. You write her a million dollar check under
the table and you get her into the skills competition,
you do it. You pay her under the table, you
(02:19):
pay her through a shoe company. You get her in there.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
To be honest, did you even know there was a
WNBA skills competition? I did not.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I was in a work But the associate press is
saying this morning after a show started this morning, apparently
they said she turned it down. Don't let her say no. Hey,
how about the stat There's a lot of things I've
said no to the bosses in my life. If you
want to get done, make it get done.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
So Cayler Clark has twenty two blocks this season.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's weird.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
That's amazing for a guard. It's a middle Reese a
center has ten.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
How wow.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Cayler Clark's hustling, trying on defense, setting up the offense,
shooting three.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Dana White and the US he was more successful than
the WNBA was. But when Dana White got Connor McGregor,
you just got him on every big card you did
with Bryce Harper, like you. Networks like Fox are like
we're putting the Phillies on television. You just make stuff work.
(03:18):
You just more. Caitlin, she is the Taylor Swift and
sneakers for a sport that's never made a profit.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, give the people what they want, right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's basketball. We're not asking her to lift heavy things yet.
So anyway, So, so she is, she isn't in the
Olympic team. She's not in the skills they have. At
least we got to give the WNBA credit. They got
her in the All Star Game.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
But is that voted on as voter on she was
the number one vote get her by a mile.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, Yeah, so they didn't even have a choice s So,
so basically the fans, So we can't give the WNBA
credit for that. The fans did that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Just remember last sixteen years, zero games with one million
TV viewers every game for Clark this season except one
over a million viewers every game.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Eric Musselman, interesting guest's going to be joining us in
about twenty minutes. Well, Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid both
good players. Obviously they're vying for a starting spot in
the US Olympic team. But after seeing yesterday's game versus Serbia,
it kind of proved my point here. I think Ad
simply a better player than Joel Embiid.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Well, I really think you're going to like our next guest.
If you're a basketball fan, pro or college, you know
who Eric Musselman is. He's a new coach at USC.
He coached in the NBA as a head coach with
the Warriors and Kings. He was an assistant Magic, Hawks, Grizzlies,
t Wolves. He's coached under Chuck Day, worked under Jerry West.
Now he's dealing Doc Rivers. Mike Furtello, You've got such
(04:54):
a labyrinth of college and pro basketball stories. One of
the things I want to start with is Jerry West
recently passed away. I can remember the Powe gasol trade
when they got Kobe got Paw gasol, and Jerry West
was engineering this whole thing. I remember being on a
plane on the tarmac and I called a friend and
(05:16):
I said, did you see the Pow gasol trade? Who
engineered that? My buddy's like, I think it's Jerry West.
Jerry was the guy that told the Warriors move off
monte He's great. Go Steph. What was the secret sauce?
Because you're a basketball savant. I mean, that's your reputation intense,
you know the sport. When you're around Jerry, to you,
(05:40):
what was the secret sauce with Jerry? What made him
so I mean he obviously had great experience eric, but
what was it like to be around him and pick
his brain?
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Well, he was so competitive will the win was beyond belief.
Everybody in pro sports is pretty competitive, but he took
it to another level. In the draft room, he was
a competitive person. I remember being a part of two
drafts with him, and the intensity in the draft room
was incredible. And then you look back at like his
(06:10):
time in Memphis, which is when I had the opportunity.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
To work with him. Look at who he hired as
a coach.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
It's Hubie Brown, and Hubie Brown had been out of
coaching for I think fourteen or fifteen years, so he
brought Hubie Brown out of retirement basically to coach. And
then when Huby retired, he brings Mike Fritella, who had
been out of coaching for seven years. And the reason
I thought that's so unique is Jerry West really pro player.
(06:37):
But he went out and got true coaches that were
not former players necessarily, and I always thought that was
really unique. But it's because he thought those two guys
were the best coaches at that time for the organization.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
So his long term vision unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
But I do remember the first time I talked to
I was coaching the Warriors and there was a trade
made and all of a sudden, a couple of days later,
at the secretary for the Warriors said hey, Jerry West.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
Is on the line. I'm like, man, the logo, what
you know?
Speaker 5 (07:11):
So I pick up the phone and he goes, hey,
so and so just got traded to you. As a
young coach. I just want you to know you'll never
make it. You'll get fired. He'll get you fired.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Click.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
I'm like, oh wow, I'm thirty.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Some years old, head coach in the NBA and the
logo just called me and told me the guy we
traded for is gonna get me fired.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
And I had to coach the game. So but he
was pretty close to being right.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Let's talk. I asked you during the break. This fascinating.
I said, you coached in the NBA as an assistant
and a head coach. You were young, I said, and
you're known as a strategist. You are a guy that
is working. You're working the chalk both sides, you're working
the refs, you're working your team, you're working your assistance.
Was there ever a guy I asked you that was
intimidatingly good at strategy and the name you gave.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Was here be Brown.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
I remember the first time we played Memphis when I
was with the Warriors, I told our staff we got
to be up at least nine or ten heading into
the two minute timeout because if not, we got no chance.
Speaker 6 (08:16):
Because he was coach.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Brown was so great late game, and I had worked
for him several years before that and saw what he
did in timeouts, the preparation and how he could take
a play pattern and alter it on the fly and
make it simple through his instructions in the timeouts. Never
seen anything like it in my life, And so I
knew then going against him, like, hey, I cannot out
(08:42):
coach this guy in the last two minutes. And so
I larned our staff like, hey man, we gotta have
doublegg leader.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
What's over? You also coached under Chuck Daily, the legendary
I mean he was He and pat Riley. They looked
like CEOs. The suit and.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
Coach Daily would let you know it too.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
He would tell you get out of the mirror, I
need the mir space, pregame like your assistant coach be,
you know, getting his tied done right, And Coach Daily
he'd walk right up, I need the mirror, now move please.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Now he had that ego and the vanity and the gravitass,
but yet it worked and a lot of times players
would be turned off by that. What was something about
Coach Daily that was a marvel to you?
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Well, he could always predict the future. It was absolutely unbelievable.
He would see thing like he would say, hey, in
ten games, we're going to be super tired, and then
ten games would go by and we'd be super tired.
Like he could always figure out the nuances of his team.
The most amazing thing is he had this presence, this
(09:48):
air about him, but he really had no ego. It
was unbelievable, Like he looked at himself like an average guy.
Now the dressing part was super important to man and
never every road trip he wanted to go shopping.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Every road trip, just like McIntire so.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
But in all reality he was a true players coach
like he in practice he really believed in giving the
assistant coaches a voice. He said that when he spoke
in a huddle, he wanted to be like E. F.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
Hutton.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
He wanted everybody to listen all ears towards him, so
he felt like they didn't need to hear his voice
all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That is really smart. He was really smart. So he
wanted he was a word efficiency guy, No question, assistance
can barket practice. When I talk, it's game meaningful.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
No doubt.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
And he talked about how he broke down how many
meetings you truly have in a twenty four hour game day.
You think about all the timeouts, you think about pre practice,
think about shoot around, You think about your forty minute meeting,
You think about your meeting at twenty minute. So he said,
all these meetings, think about how tired the player's ears
are of listening to the same voice, so the same
(10:58):
message over and over. So he was really careful not
to use a lot of words in front of his players.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Guy, that's so smart. You know. Dan Hurley is the
coach of the moment in college basketball. I didn't think
the Lakers was a good fit. I said, listen when
I saw him at a Billy Joel Concert a day
later with his wife. I'm like, he's a New Yorker.
He not coming out to La la la land. But
I said, I didn't know, and I think he's great.
(11:24):
I said, I don't think Bill Belichick would have been
a good college coach, but yet I think John Gruden
would have been. Stylistically, you worked in both. I said,
I don't know if Dan has the patience or the
league has the patience for him as an NBA coach.
If you go look at Rhode Island, if you go
look at his jobs, he deconstructs. Lakers don't like deconstruct job, right,
(11:48):
they got Lebron and Ad tell me that, what do
you think Hurley would have worked? And I think he's
the best college coach. Now, yep, you think it would
have worked in the NBA. Did he make the right
choice staying at Yukon?
Speaker 6 (12:01):
You know, I think his that's you know, his choice
is his choice.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
But I do think that any great coach UH would
come to find out really quickly that professional sports is
a players league and it's way more of a partnership.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
UH.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
And if the if you don't turn it into a partnership,
you just cannot last in that league at all. And
I think coach Hurley is so smart and so brilliant
that he would have figured that out really really quickly if.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
He wouldn't already know it, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
I think that a lot of college coaches that are
thinking about the NBA level. I think if you talk
to enough NBA coaches, head coaches or assistant coaches, I
think you understand really quickly that you have got to partner,
especially with your star players, and if you don't, you're
just you're just not.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Gonna make it, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
I mean, the players are going to control so much
in that league, and for good reason, they are the
star of the show.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I am a fan of college basketball. I do think,
in just my opinion, the NBA kind of with Adam Silver,
demonized it. And I always think college football is the
best microwave. So by the time a kid Tim Tebow
goes to the NFL, he's a household name. I know
Zion because of Nike and Duke. I have a feeling
that the nil will keep a few players around, maybe
(13:24):
like a Zach Edy for one more year, and will
actually you'll be able to get a kid that may
have been a g leaguer, and it's like, Kansas is
gonna pay me four to fifty, I'm gonna go to Kansas.
That's I'm on the outside. I think the NIL could
actually fortify college basketball. It's still a revolving door of talent.
What do you think it can the NIL? Because everybody
(13:46):
laments the NIL, and but I think to myself, could
it actually help the sport?
Speaker 6 (13:52):
I think it can help the sport with certain players.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
But I think you know, a year ago, we had
Anthony Black, who was a lot of pick, and there
was never a discussion with Anthony or his mother, Jennifer.
There was never a discussion about, hey, let's have Anthony
come back.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
And he can make name, image and likeness because he's
a lottery pick. After one year, you're a one and done,
you got to go.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
But I do think for certain players that are maybe
marginal guys, because if you're talking about a player who's
a late second round draft pick.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
He's a star in college.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
So I do think some guys that are borderline maybe
forty five to sixty picks, maybe those guys can participate
in college for one more year and have a little
bit more patience and then when they're ready to go pro.
Maybe they go from sixty to now thirty eight in
the following draft. And so if you can have those
conversations that make sense and a player can make more
(14:46):
money over time based on his draft value, and then
it also elevates a player when you look at marketing
opportunities once he does get to the NBA, because let's
face the facts, somebody like Carmelo Anthony when he plays
the one one year at Syracuse, that elevates his marketing
as well. Oh, no question, same thing with Kevin Durant
at Texas. So I think college can be really, really
(15:09):
good from a marketing.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Stand I totally agree.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
So I think there's some great things with it.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, Plus the programs all have deals with Nike, Adidas.
I mean, so you get you're gonna get those companies
behind you as well. The you know, it's really interesting
when you it does appear to me the AAU system
is a bit broken. I tend to think America has
the most good basketball players, but the top five or
six guys in this league are increasingly international players. And
(15:37):
I don't think it's because our kids don't work hard
or they're not good people or good I think what
happens is the European system, whereas it's an academy. Yep,
you play fewer games, the games mean more. You play
against older players. AAU is a million games on the weekend.
It's all about getting the bag. I think the system
(16:00):
right now is better in Europe than here. You can't,
you know, bad mouth AAU because you're recruiting in all
the time. But is there an argument to be made
that the European system, if we could tweak ours, that
they do some things better at a fundamental level early
than we do.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
There's no question right now when you look at the
draft and if you go back crazy, yeah, it's crazy.
I mean you think about you know, thirty years ago,
you know the Atlanta Hawks and stan Casting were way
ahead of the game when when it was came to
evaluating overseas. And I remember the draft with Dirk Nowitzki.
I was in Orlando at the time and three weeks
(16:40):
before the draft, we did not know who Dirk was.
That's how far scouting and everything has come too. That
wasn't that long ago. But now the coaching overseas absolutely phenomenal.
Some of the best coaches in the world are not
coaching in the United States. And for so many years,
great American coaches went over their coach, did clinics, taught
(17:04):
the game the way that the Americans played. Now the coaching,
we're stealing ideas and.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Schemes from them. It's amazing. Even NBA teams.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
There's a lot of NBA teams, Hey, let's go get
so and so to be an assistant coach because he's
so creative, offensive minded, and he's been coaching in.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Italy or Spain or Serbia or wherever.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
And then you think about the player and the level
of talent right now, if you could project another ten
to fifteen years what the NBA draft's going to look like,
it might look a lot like baseball, where you're talking
about a lot of Dominican Republic players and you're talking
about a lot of Venezuelan players dominating the draft. It
might turn that quickly with basketball as well, because it's
(17:48):
trending in that direction right now. Unless we can fix
some of the grassroots stuff that's going on here in
the US.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I gotta tell I used to cover tarc so I
need you to be vulnerable here because I ask.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
All that I roomed with's son at the University of
San Diego.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
George Tarkanian, Oh.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
George Dark Yes, So I've said this before. I we
love this game. I wish I was an NFLGM. I
thought Jan Dixon out of Maryland was gonna roll in
the league. I loved him, and I later found out
he was a tweeter. So there Don McClain. I was
sitting with tark and I said he would played at
Seemi Valley or something and great legendary basketball player now
(18:27):
a cliper announcer. I'm like Tark I was watching him
at a tournament Vegas. I'm like, I don't get it.
He doesn't jump, he scores. It's I don't in. Tark's like,
he's gonna be all NBA. So tark knew his stuff,
so I love I remember tell Mike Dunlavy, yell, Ming's
just another tall guy. He's like, he's gonna be unbelievable.
So I whipped a million guys. Give me a guy
(18:49):
two of them that you spotted early and wasn't a
big recruit, but you really you feel like it nailed him.
And has there ever been a great player that you
didn't buy and you looked up five years later and went, Wow,
that kid had a lot of heart and really made
himself into something.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
I would say if I had to look back and
think about a player that maybe I didn't think was
gonna be a unbelievable player. I went Orlando Magic general
manager John Gabriel asked me to go watch Vince Carter
play against Bethune Cookman.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
In Daytona Beach.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
He could jump, and I went over there and I
watched him and he was always grabbing a body part,
you know, but and his athleticism was awesome. But I
was like, I told Gabe, I said, I don't know
if he can really be an NBA All Star. And
that's the one guy. That's why you can't go watch
a guy one time. Because obviously Vince Carter was unbelievable,
(19:48):
but it was a forty minute game. I watched him
play probably twenty some minutes because it was a blowout game,
and I came away and was like, I'm not sure.
And that I look back and said, boy, are you stupid?
Which is also why you've got to constantly call people
that are either coaching him in the training.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Jerry West secret, you have to now give me a
guy that you found you guys all have somebody that
you loved early.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Yeah, I say a guy that.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Darren Fox as a as a young player of him.
I watched him for about thirty seconds, and I don't
know where he was ranked at the time because I
had just entered college basketball, but I remember watching him.
It took like two or three minutes to say, this
guy is just different. He's on a whole other level.
And I think that the more you do this college
(20:39):
recruiting stuff, that the stars that are just guys that
are going to be lottery picks, they're easy. You don't
have to convince yourself that they're good. You automatically can
say that guy's going to be a lottery pick. And
there's not many, but when you see it, you kind
of know it and feel it.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You've coached at Nevada, Arkansas and now USC. It is
a big city, big city media, big city restaurants. Are
LA kids just naturally a little softer, a little more entitled.
I heard years ago a college football coach said, you
come out here. They all got two iPhones in LA
and they got cool shoes and they're all stylish. And
(21:17):
I'm like, he goes, that's not like what they're like
in you know, Wichita State is recruiting an LA kid.
Different at USC.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
I don't really think so.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
I mean I look at you know, when we first
got started at Nevada, the first place I went to
was LA and we ended up getting Lindsey Drew, who
was the starting point guard for US for four years.
And he was an LA kid, And yeah, he he
has a cool factor to him for sure, but his
dad was an NBA head coach. And we felt like
(21:47):
the LA market because of who you're playing against as
a high school player and local AAU events as a
really young player, meaning second, third, fourth grade, they're exposed
to so many great players at a young age that
we actually felt like it's an unbelievable market. And now
obviously being at USC, now it's got to be a
(22:08):
great market for US.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, Eric Musselman joining US, You've coached in the D League,
the Mountain West, the NBA. You've coached U Chuck Daily,
Doc Rivers, Mike Fratello. You've coached Penny Hardaway, Rashid Wallace,
Scottie Pippen, Powe, Gasol. Gasol was a fascinating.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
Player, unbelievable offensive player, and a unbelievable IQ was he
was an underrated passer and when you can find a
player that makes Kobe loved him. Oh for a good reason,
because everyone loved playing with him. He was unselfish. He
was a great locker room guy, super ego lists and
was fun to be around. Like he had energy that
(22:49):
you were like, Hey, I want to go hang out
with Paul Gasol.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah. You know. Somebody told me that Penny Hardaway had
the best pre NBA workout. Kobe and Penny Hardaway had
the two best. Now when were you and Penny together?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Yes, so it was would have been Pennies. I think
maybe third year because because he played for Brian.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Hill with the Nick Anderson Shack Yes, Dennis Scott No,
maybe not.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I think Dennis was with him, yes, and then uh
I joined the Magic with Chuck Daily, so that was
Chuck's year and then I was also with the Magic
when Doc came his first year.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
But Penny was.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
Part of the year with with Coach Dale and it
was Nick Anderson, Horace Grahant.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Somebody told me he did things in practice that were insane.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Because he was now we talk about positionless players. Yes,
he was the guy that was the positionless player that
could play the point, that he could guard a four man.
He had unbelievable vision, you know, like when you're an
NBA assistant, You're like, I can't wait for the tip
off to see what this guy does. Penny was one
(23:56):
of those guys. So was Jason Williams. White Chocolate was
like when I was with him, I couldn't wait for
the game to start because it was like, this man's
gonna put on a show you and you never knew
what he was gonna do. And there's all you know,
there's these certain guys that just have incredible flare, and
Penny was certainly one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Juju Watkins u USC basketball star, women's basketball star. If
I'd never seen the play, tell me, tell me about
the game, her game.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
I mean, she's well, first of all, she's the biggest
star on campus.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
And that's super cool when you think about women's athletics
that Juju is a national brand right now.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So any with Scout, I'm I'm your GM. I want
you to go Scout Juju. Well, Eric, what tell me
about her?
Speaker 6 (24:46):
She can do everything?
Speaker 5 (24:47):
I mean, she she can draw free throws, attempted. She
can make threes. You talk about a player on a
big stage as a freshman that could take her team
as far she did. How she uses her body, She's
got unbelievable body control. She can finish through contact, she
(25:08):
can seek contact for free throws, attempted, stretch the defense
out with three point shooting. Just had a phenomenal, phenomenal
freshman year. And the shirt I got on this is
actually a Juju Watkins shirt from the bookstore. I went
and I'm like, man, that's a great logo. You know,
I'm in the bookstore looking for stuff. I looked at
the price tager I'm like, wow, like it's one hundred.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
Dollars t shirt. And then I looked at hey, it's
Juju Watkins shirt. Let's get this thing.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
By the way, you're fifty nine and look great. You've
got incredible energy. I think a lot of that from
what I've heard. I talked to people, told him you
were coming on the show. You really love what you do.
You have a great energy. Now I know you have
to get on a plane and recruit. Is recruiting easier
or harder today?
Speaker 6 (25:53):
Well, I've only been doing it for ten years.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
You know collegiately, So I would say that it's become
harder each year that I've been a part of it.
You know, when I was at Nevada, you had to
sit out when you transferred, so we had a great formula.
We felt like, hey, we always want four sitout guys
that we can develop and have patients with. And then
we also that means you only got eight or nine
guys on your active rosters, so they're all happy, So
(26:16):
your locker room is easier. One thing that I don't
think people are talking enough about with this you don't
have to sit out transfer wise, Now you have thirteen
guys on scholarship, there's always going to be three or
four guys that are unhappy, So what is your locker
room like? And it also there's more guys now not
playing and they're losing eligibility while they're not on the floor.
(26:38):
When you had to sit out thing and and you
sat for a year, then you got to you know,
more guys were playing minutes then, and so I think
that's a little bit of development piece because really the
only way to get better truly.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
Is to get significant minutes.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
That's how you improve as a player, where you can
learn on the fly, and you can learn through mistakes,
and you can play through mistakes. And with thirteen active
play on a roster becomes more challenging to let guys
play through their mistakes. But when you have four guys
sitting out, you have no choice. You're rolling with a
core group of seven or eight guys. And I think
(27:12):
guys got better that way.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Jay Wright would get three star guys from the DMV,
build them, they'd stay in college. It was great chemistry.
John Calipari went one and done. That's a way to
do it. If you were at a Kentucky like where
you can do either way, what would you prefer.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
I think you got to have a blend.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
I think that, you know, when I look back at
the group that I had a year ago at Arkansas,
a team that got us to the Sweet sixteen, we
had three freshmen that were one and done's, and I
love that formula. I think if you get a freshman
who's really really talented and is going to be able
to play in the NBA in eight months, what a
challenge as a coach to say, man, I owe, there's
(27:52):
an obligation to make sure this player gets drafted higher
than what's anticipated.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
That's a great challenge.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
It's also an incredible responseility for a coaching staff when
a parent, you know, says, hey, we want this young
man to be developed, to get him ready for the
next level, and you got eight months to do it.
And and I look back a couple of years ago
with Moses Moody, who was a lot of your pick.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
He led us to an Elite eight.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
And the thing that I've learned is you got to
let those guys play early on, and then when you
get to March, then then you'll get the payback. And
it might not happen right away. In non conference. You
might see a team slip up a little bit if
they're playing a young guy that's going to be a
one and done. But you certainly hope come March Madness
that those players can lead you, because in all reality,
(28:41):
you can't win without star players and without players that
are that are you got to win in college with
NBA prospects or you're just marginal team.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, I got burned a few years ago. I watched
Kansas in December and they had some one un donners
and I'm like, they're terrible, And then three months later
they're smoking people to your point, these kids got to grow.
I just felt like I went a graduate seminar of basketball.
Eric Musselman, USC basketball coach, what a pleasure to finally
meet you. You've had a remarkable career, fascinating kick but
(29:09):
at USC.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
Man, Thanks Collin, appreciate you having me out. It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You bet take a break back in a second. The Herd.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Hey, gang, this is Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a
mental Wealth podcast, and every week we will have on
leader from sports entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael phelf,
David Spade, got Fiemi, and also those who can help
us in between the years, anyone from a therapist to
someone like Ed Milette or John Gordon. We've all been
(29:45):
through some sort of adversity to get to the top.
We've all used different tools. Listen to Unbreakable with Jay
Glazer and Mental Wealth podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
With that on the podcast, Eric Musselman, great NBA stories.
Hub Brown, as we thought, is a genius. J mcklanews,
this is the Herdline News all right.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Earlier this week we talked about the top ten quarterbacks
as ranked by executives, coaches, and scouts. Well, now we've
got the wide receiver list and the guy making the
biggest leap is Amaras Saint Brown, who went from unranked
honorable mention last year to now number seven. We have
the full list, which I think is a little bit
garbage at the bottom. Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill, Jamar Chase No,
(30:36):
no real debate there, Ceedee Lamb, DeVante Adams okay, aj Brown, sure,
Amarse Brown Fine.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
But Mike Evans, Stefan Diggs at eight nine?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
What I like you?
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Where the hell is Gira Wilson, Where's Cooper Cup?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I mean they're missing some guys here.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Brandon Luk at ten? Okay, sure fine. I think Auke's
a little higher than ten.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
I mean, like Mike Evans has had a great career,
he's not a great receiver now He's just not.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
And Stefan Diggs.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
I don't particularly see it, but yeah, it's a total
snub of Garrett Wilson can't wait for him to go
ham with the gensus here all right, we got breaking
news here. As a next story, Russell Westbrook has been traded.
The paper Clips have traded Russell Westbrook to the Utah
Jazz for Chris Dunn, the former Providence guard who is
a top ten pick.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
However, the Jazz are not keeping Russ.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
It sounds like, according to Woj, they're gonna buy him out.
And according to Woj, this clears a path for Russ
to join the Denver Nuggets. Well, they need some bench production, Okay,
so I dug into this a little bit. It sounded
like in the postseason, Michael Malone didn't trust his young guys.
Peyton Watson, who's a good young player, barely played in
(31:49):
the postseason. He trusts veterans. We know the lebron So
now you get a veteran in Russell Westbrook. They lose
KCP like Russell probably be their sixth man. Russell give
you thirty minutes of one hundred miles an hour. I
think he's a very very productive bench player. Well, if
his mindset is there, well he plays hard. In his
(32:10):
mind he's not a bench player.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Well, but that's what he is on this team. I
think he knows he's not going to start over Yokich,
Murray Gordon or Porter. And by the way that happens.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think they just lost KCP.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So Christian Brown or Russell West, Well, he's not He's
not a shooter. He is he is twenty eight minutes
of intensity and production, and he'll give you that every
night coming off the bench. Yes, yeah, yeah. I think
I've said before, as a bench player late in his career,
if I could get a guy that can give me
thirty minutes of that athletic ability and intensity. I'm not
(32:42):
relying on him. I'm not setting him, I'm not running
my offense through him. But he'll give you sixteen points
off the bench and play thirty minutes of the hardest basketball. Now,
Malone's gonna make him commit to some defense. We'll see.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Fox has me do a gambling for NBA futures, and
I just told him I bet the Nuggets under fifty
two and a half wins. I don't think Russ changes.
I don't think they're gonna be amazing next year. Come
I'll go not top four in the West next year,
not top four. I don't think you realize how loaded
the West is and how they floaded the Nuggets are
(33:16):
a little look at the bench man, it's thin. Is
a long season. Remember Jokis is down not riding horses
in the offseason.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
He's playing in the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Like I'm a little concerned.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
For the When they won the title, they had the
sixteenth best bench scoring. The bench is not.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Gonna be young. That was like three years ago. They
didn't have a history. Now they're every year they're in
the postseason long runs.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
You don't think they're top four in the West. No,
I'll bet you right now. Okay, let's bet the thirty
eighth steak we've ever bet. I've won thirty. I think,
okayc is gonna win the West. Denver is gonna be right.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Well in the regular season.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I'm just saying they'll be the number one seed.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
I think Minnesota is gonna be right there.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Keep your eye on that Julius Randall Karl Anthony Towns trade.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I don't think they're moving all towns.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Jennie back with the news.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the line.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
What an enjoyable show today. And I've got to admit
we called it early. You and I brought our optimistic
shirts on the show, and the show has flown. We're
really an apparel show that does sports takes. Our shirts
brought this positivity, in this light floral sense to the show,
and the show cooked all day. We cooked. See you tomorrow.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
1. Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.