July 21, 2025 • 32 mins
Colin talks to NFL TE Marcedes Lewis about his interest in still playing in the NFL, training camp, how long it takes to see if someone can make it in the league, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
J Mack, you're just figuring out that Stephen Colbert story.
That was a big pot topical weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I listen man on the weekends. I try to spend
time with the fam, do some sports. I play volleyball
and basketball Saturday. It was amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I'm not online, I'm not reading. Come on, I'm relaxing
and enjoying summer. Okay, what are you doing in Chicago?
You're reading about Colbert the Demise of Late yesterday?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
By eleven thirty, I was watching the British Open, reading
my Fox Sports College Football preview book and I may
have tipped an early one. Feel good about myself.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
So, by the way, do they have cigars in Chicago
or are you off the cigars now?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Do they have cigars in Chicago? Yeah, they even have
them in Wisconsin, the state above us Kenosha has a
cigar story back, Come on, that's not a Hegan probably
does as well.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Kenosha. That's a town.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, it's god, it's beautiful. You have to get out
here and realize there's a world beyond the two one
three area code eight one eight, you know, worry forgot
what the area code was there?
Speaker 5 (01:29):
All right?
Speaker 6 (01:30):
J Mack with the news, No turns, this is the
herd Line News.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Let's talk a little Detroit Lions, Colon, I still remember
that loss in the playoffs to Washington goff was horrible.
But uh, Jamior GiB the great running back for Detroit.
He said he's ready to do whatever it takes to
win a Super Bowl. He's willing to line up at
safety or nickelback. I guess he's been reading about Travis Hunter.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I don't know, Colin.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I feel like the windows kind of closing for the Lions.
Gid Well Superstar, but it's just it feels like the
ship is ailed.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Windows don't close when you have a really good general
manager and scouting department, and and unlike the Bengals, the
Lions have poured more money into it. So this is
an organization that has drafted similarly to Philadelphia has hit
on so many first, second, and third round draft picks
(02:25):
that they are going to keep the books reasonable. Aiden
Hutchison comes back this year. They did lose a center,
and they addressed that in the draft. They went heavy
interior linemen. I think they're I think there are certain
team Baltimore drafts too well. Philadelphia, the Rams, Buffalo's drafted
very well.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Green Bay historically drafts well.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
If you draft well, your windows may regress, but they
don't close. Dallas has closed because they have not New England.
Belichick at the end closed they drafted poor.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, I did see that they suffered another injury. The
Lions over the weekend lost in defensive starter for the season.
They just can't stay healthy. It's unfortunate. But let's move
on to next up. The New York Giants. Colin, I
think both of us were shocked when they drafted Jackson
Dart in the first round.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Did not make sense to me.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Russell Wilson Sphillicks still expected to get the start, but
everybody's expecting a lot of Jackson Dart this season.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Dart told The New York Post he ain't scared of the.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Pressure that comes with playing in New York, adding that
this is where he wanted to be.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Any thoughts here.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
On Jackson Dart, who I'm just telling you every time
I read about the Giants, the coaching staff loves Jackson Dart,
loves him well.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I mean, there's things that I think work in Jackson
Dart's favor. He think about it as a rookie quarterback. Up,
I said, what three things do you want? Number one
offensive coach? Number two, a good left tackle, number three,
a number one receiver. He's got all of them. If
I if I was if I came into the league
(04:05):
or my son did, I'd say, please give him an
offensive coach, please protect his backside, and give him a weapon.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
And they have all those.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So the idea this is a bad place for Jackson Dart,
not a bad place for Jackson Dart would have been
drafted to the Bears last year, where Caleb Williams got
an O line that regressed a defensive coach kind of
a number one, but there was just in a really
good division. This is a This is about as good
as you're gonna do as a rookie quarterback. And it's
(04:36):
funny about the Giants. I like their defensive front so
I do think defensively, you know, it's it's they can
make things uncomfortable for you. Whoever quarterbacks then will not
have to win shootouts every week. It's it's if the
Giants right now had the quarterback right I'd think differently
about them.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
The schedule is brutal, but there are.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Elements defensive line, receiver, left tackle, coach, There's some stuff there.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I like, Yeah, I had analytics guy on my podcast
last week and he said the Giants unequivocally have the
toughest schedule in the NFC. Yes, So, I mean I
feel bad for Jackson Dart. I mean, I don't see
a ton of wins on this schedule. You go, maybe
you get the lay up in New Orleans, but again,
facing right out of the gate, Washington, Kansas City Chargers, Eagles,
Broncos Eagles, those are all playoff teams from last year.
(05:28):
Like that, I don't know how Russell Wilson's gonna still
be the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Come like Halloween. They're gonna just have to try Dart.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
The only reason I don't think this is good, Colin
is because what happens if Dabell gets blown out?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
If they win four or five games.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
He's getting dusted, right, and then it's like Dart.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Has to win over the new head coach.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I don't see it now. Maybe Malik Nighbors is heroic.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I'm still surprised he's considered like a top seven receiver
in the league already, But I don't see it happening
for Jackson, Dart and the Giants.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
This year finals coins go to.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
The Kansas City Chiefs, So we got.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Some good news for them. George car laftis the edge rusher.
I believe he went to Purdue. He got a four year,
ninety three million.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Dollar contract extension, first round.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Pick of the Chiefs. He's been solid since his rookie year.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I don't think he's been spectacular, but you need a
bunch of these good edge rushers.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well deliver because you got to rotate the Meniski Milk.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Look who's in the division now, Bow Knicks and Sean Payton,
Justin Herbert and Jim Harbaugh. If you're gonna pay your defense,
it's pass rush guys. So he was a good player
at Purdue. He's been a very productive. Chris Jones getting
a bit older, although Chris still has some years remaining
on his deal. But if you're gonna pay when you
get into a division, you got to look at your
(06:44):
division and say, who do we have to stop.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
Well, it's your Kansas City.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now, the Chargers have two good offensive tackles, a real
run game, Harvon Herbert. You probably want to pay a
pass rusher. And by the way, you got Sean Payton
bow Knicks. Garrett Bowles is a great left tackle. So
if you start looking at the matchups in the division,
Carl Loft, this is a guy I'm probably going to pay.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, I'm looking at the chief super Bowl stats. Carl
Aft has actually had one of the two sacks in
the Super Bowl. No, not a lot of highlights on
that team. They got just boat raced by the Eagles,
and one of us here on the show called that.
But you know that's dinner here on there.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Jmck of the news.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Not only as he played more NFL games than any
current NFL player, he didn't miss a he didn't miss
a game for the Chicago Bears the last two years.
Now he's a free agent. He's our buddy. Mercedes Lewis,
a pro bowler nineteen years in the NFL, who I'm
told just got done working out. Now, last time I
talked to you, you wanted to play. Do you still Are
you still willing to get on a roster? Would you
play today?
Speaker 7 (07:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (07:47):
I mean right now, the goal is to played one
more year. You know, just nineteen is amazing. I'm super
grateful for that. Obviously, we've had a conversation about it.
Twenty the grounds off the legacy for me, So right
now it's just standard operating for Sezures, just working out
and doing my thing.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Man, is there a team you fit?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Who needs a blocking tight end, who's smart, who needs
a guy like Mercedes Lewis?
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Where do you fit?
Speaker 8 (08:15):
I mean, obviously a team that's definitely going to run
the ball, a team that play pass and play action,
the kind of ties the running the pass game together.
I'm not necessarily gonna throw teams out there, but there's
been a few that have kind of reached out, kind
of probing to see if I'm going to continue to play.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
So what's the ir source out? You know?
Speaker 8 (08:35):
Obviously with me, it's all about controlling what I can control,
and what I can control has been in great shape
and being ready when my name is called.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
So you know, here we go.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Did Green Bay reach out Baltimore?
Speaker 7 (08:49):
No, those two didn't reach out?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Okay, well they both have a very extensive run game. Okay,
I want to throw that there. Did Arizona reach out?
Make of that one there? Arizona rechaum? Okay, hey man,
I'm a journalist, Mercedes, this is what John's do.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
I'm fash No, no, no, I get it. I mean
it's again, It's it's been like three or four Obviously,
they're trying to make sure they have what they need
on the roster, and you know, we'll see what happens
once camp gets going.
Speaker 7 (09:25):
You know, the grind it is as far.
Speaker 8 (09:27):
As camp and how hard it is to stay healthy in
this league. So for me, it's just about kind of
figuring out what that that magic number is going to
be for me in my mind of when I want
to go ahead and retire, you know, because I don't.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
See myself necessarily waiting the whole season right now, I'm.
Speaker 8 (09:48):
Still very inspired and motivated to go for one more year,
and I'll just take it one day at a time
and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter Not a Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 9 (10:05):
Hey, we're Covino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 9 (10:10):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame in me.
Speaker 9 (10:28):
Well you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 9 (10:46):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored by
the way, So maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
A little harder.
Speaker 9 (10:53):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
There you go, over Promising and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
We didn't miss any games with the Bears. We talked
about Caleb Williams. I said, one of the things that's
fascinating about him, there's a wide range of outcomes. Most
of his issues, in my opinion, are solvable. Like Lamar
Jackson when he came into the league didn't have much
of a pocket presence because he had such a capability,
like he didn't have to sit in the pocket. Two
(11:28):
years later, from about year three to now, you're like, Okay,
he's very comfortable in the pocket. He sends his pressure,
he doesn't just bolt. Josh Allen wasn't accurate. By year three,
You're like, oh, he's developed accuracy. I think that's kind
of Caleb. It's not an arm elusiveness, toughness, smart. I
don't worry about that stuff you played with him, I
don't worry about that. But he does miss laps. He
(11:50):
could be a little hero ball. He does hold onto
the ball too long? Is there when you are playing
with him? The holding onto the ball too long? I
think that's understood. A lot of people have talked about that.
How do you solve that.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Having a plan?
Speaker 8 (12:08):
If you remember when we spoke a little while ago
about Caleb, it was about just the disarrayed that the
offense was in and the firing of the coaches and.
Speaker 7 (12:19):
Just different philosophies.
Speaker 8 (12:22):
I think it was just too many cooks in the
kitchen at that time, and obviously coming in for his
rookie season, it's kind of tough to kind of go
through that. But at the same time, you know who
he is as a player, as a person who he
sees himself as every day we wakes up in the morning.
The guy wants to be great. He wants to be coachaball.
I think right now he's in a really good situation
(12:43):
now with the new coaching staff and they added some
support there for him, and I think everything that you
just mentioned won't be an issue.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
So, I mean, he's a guy that.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
As far as just a dude being able to play
the game of football, he can do. So it's just
about having a plan to making sure that you know
what he wants and what he's really good at is
an alignment with then.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
And I'm pretty sure they're over there.
Speaker 8 (13:09):
Working hard at it to make sure they're putting it
things so that he's successful this year. And I just
look forward to seeing him play. I think he's going
to be solid.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So quarterbacks over forty in the NFL have won twelve
playoff games ever, and Brady's got ten of them, all right,
So it's hard. And I was surprised Aaron went to
Pittsburgh might take his first ballot Hall of Famer. He
did New York like far of it was messy. I
could see him just retiring. He's a West Coast guy,
and I do think that Pittsburgh's been a little tone
(13:38):
deaf on offense. They can't get the O line right
for six years. Even though I like some of their
offensive personnel. I think they've drafted the West Virginia center,
the Oregon State lineman, like I like some of the
offensive line personnel, they can't get it right. Were you
surprised he did decide because he could have retired. Were
you surprised he decided to play out east with the Steelers.
Speaker 8 (13:59):
No, I wasn't surprised, And I don't know if you
remember when you know you asked me that question, maybe
a couple of months ago.
Speaker 7 (14:06):
I picked for him to go to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
I just felt like, you know, to get out of
New York, get on a team where the defense is solid.
Obviously they you know, they're trying to figure it out
on offense, but a Rod may be that piece. Right Like,
if you think about it, the quarterbacks that were there,
if you name, you know, five or six quarterbacks as
they've had, I'm gonna still pick a Rod over all
of them. And they've been able to get to the
(14:28):
playoffs and have a winning season. So you know, I'm
looking forward to see how a Rod messages in with
Pittsburgh and see if you can get that offense going.
But I think with him there, it gives them a
good shot.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know what's funny about you came into the league,
big tall athletic, you could go vertical, and then you
pivoted at some point in your career to more of
a blocking tight end. You always blocked, but you became
more of a blocking tight end. You know, tight end
is weird. Antonio Gates was undrafted. That's crazy, Travis George
Kittle like fifth round guys. It's just it's crazy to me.
(15:05):
And I go back to you were a first you
were at the end of the first round of Jacksonville.
It does seem though, that many tight ends have surprised us.
Nobody thought Kittle was going to do this. I mean, seriously,
Antonio Gates is an undrafted Hall of Famer. When you
watch young tight ends, what do you look for that
(15:27):
maybe I wouldn't you watch college football and you say
that works, that doesn't like?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
What would you.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Look at if you ever coached or you went into
a front office and I said, Mercedes, we got four
tight ends on the board.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
What do you like and what do you don't like? What?
What would you pinpoint?
Speaker 8 (15:46):
I think the first thing that I've probably look for
is toughness. You know, obviously you can go out there,
run around, catch a ball, cool, But.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
Are you tough? You know?
Speaker 8 (15:57):
Are you a woman blocker? Are you are you down
to get dirty? Can you, you know, do the dirty work?
And then as far as like your skill set, can
you ben right like a lot of the guys that
you know block really well in this league? And can
ben And for me that was one of the things
coming out. Obviously I was a high like high cut guy,
(16:20):
long legs, but I was flexible and I can bend,
and I was a willing blocker.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
So as far as where I am to then in my.
Speaker 8 (16:26):
Career, it's just been a steady progression of just getting
better at the basics while still keeping my flexibility and
being able to bend, uh and then most.
Speaker 7 (16:35):
Of all just my toughness.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
So when I when I watched the film, I'm looking
at how tough you are as a person, Like when
everything is not going good and when you're you're down,
are you still doing your thing? Are you still blocking
and doing the little things? Because when you're playing tight end,
it's not just about catching touchdowns like we it's so
much that gets put on our plate that you know,
(16:57):
just the naked eye wouldn't even understand. And you have
to have a certain mental fortitude to kind of battle through,
you know, those fault lines of you know, trying to
be the best you can every day at its tight
end position. So those guys that you name all have
that similar thread about them, and you know that's you
know what they are where they are now.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You know, I love asking this question, so occasionally you
have to get a lined up across from a Miles
Garrett or a Jared Verse because of the situation in
the set. You're like, oh, brother, if I told you
there's one player that you've played against the nineteen years
that you wish you didn't have to play against. If
there was one guy when you're sitting in that hotel
(17:39):
the night for a game, you're like, oh crap, this
is I'm just I got to get ready for an
ice bath. Who is the single toughest guy when he
shifts over that you have to block. You'd never show him,
you'd never let us, you never let him see it.
But you were like, not a good time.
Speaker 7 (17:59):
I mean, yeah, I'll say this, so I'll give you.
I'll give you a couple.
Speaker 8 (18:07):
One I'll say, uh, probably Julius Peppers or Javon Kurtse Right,
that was earlier on in my career, where uh, those
those dudes are monstars, right, and like that's who I
kind of like looked up to when I was in
college and when I had the opportunity to play against them,
I you know, I learned a lot of lessons and
it kind of made you better as a player. But
(18:30):
those guys are just animals on the edge and it
kind of helped me build my gristle for who I
am today and you know, being able to go against
all these freaks at this point in my career. And
I would say right now and it literally would have
to be Miles Garrett Max Crosby.
Speaker 7 (18:49):
I think.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
I think those two are just dynamic and what they
do both both different but the same, and how they
get after it as far as there and them having
a plan right, and those two have really good counters
to whatever their favorite moves are. So you just always
got to be on your toes because they're they're just different.
(19:12):
They're different, Like those guys jump off the screen, and
you know what type of game is going to be
when you play against those guys. And the last time
we talked about it, I kind of alluded to the
night before the game, like if I'm playing against you know,
either of those guys or guys that like, like, my
whole body feels different, Like my mentality it kind of
(19:34):
shifts in a way, but my body feels different because
I know that I'm going to be in a dogfight
and you know, at the end of the day, it
makes this game what it is like. I'm grateful to
have those moments and kind of be in positioned to
kind of feel what it feels like to compete at
the highest level and those guys being the best out
of me.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
One more question for Mercedes Lewis. Can you tell how long.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Does it take you, guy who's been in this league
nineteen years? If you go to a camp, go to
your last six or seven years, do you know instantly
how many practices does it take for you to go, Oh, crap,
that kid's not gonna work here, or holy that guy
is like Jared Verse literally game two you're like, Yeah,
(20:19):
that's gonna work. But how many practices do you need
to see? And you're better at this because you're blocking them,
do you need to see, Oh, that's not gonna work,
that kid's not gonna work.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
It would take me three practices with full pads to
know that. Like, if I'm going against somebody if this
obviously it'll probably be very dependent on the position, right,
But if I'm going against a guy who's either a
linebacker or de missivevent, it's over me and I'm actually getting,
you know, to fill that that interaction or that side
(20:56):
of it. I would probably say about three practices with
full pads. If you're like a skill guy, a quarterback,
maybe it takes a little longer, but as far as
like being in the trenches, probably like three practices to
know that, like you're either going to be a dude
or you're just going to be a guy.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, Mercedes Lewis nighteen years still available, Man, I don't
want to get nosy, but that NFL pension that's going
to be.
Speaker 8 (21:31):
Yeah, man, I don't maybe when I'll probably look at
it when I'm when it's all said and done, but
it should be sweet.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You'll go to Craigs four nights a week and order
chicken palm and not even worry about it.
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Bro yep, just work out, order good Italian food and
mind my business.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Great seeing you. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Likewise, brother, thank you? Man all right?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Nineteen years playing pro football, Oh my god, and didn't.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Miss a game with Bears the last two years.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Like some guys like Lebron's like that Lebron got I
mean Lebron's obviously.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
Worked at it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But some guys, I mean John Lynch at safety. I
asked John John Lynch led headfirst. I mean he was
one of the hardest hitting safeties. He and Chuck cecil
for over a decade. And I asked Lynch, once you
ever have a concussion? He's like, no, never had one?
Like what, hell do you know what? No, never had one.
(22:28):
Like some guys just got the man upstairs, the entity upstairs,
you know, touches them. Was something that very few players have.
They just they just stay healthy in very physical environments.
Wrap it up next in Chicago, it's The Herd.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I think one of the interesting stories. And this has
been the case, and I think we're a long way
from over. The WNBA again is in the news because
the players went out this weekend.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
And you know, war shirts pay us what you owe us.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So it's very easy to say this league has lost
so much money over the years, they don't deserve any money.
But the truth is, as an investment, it only really
matters when the negotiation process takes place, and it's taking
place now and the WNBA finally is hot. Now you
could say it's only hot because of Caitlin Clark. But
(23:34):
when Tiger Woods came on the tour, nobody else was
driving the revenue that Tiger was. So what if you
were an advertiser, you wanted to be part of the
PGA because everybody was watching Tiger. The truth is, whatever
broadcast network has the WNBA games, they put Caitlin Clark
on all the time. And Angel Reese is getting a brand.
(23:55):
Not to that point, but I mean the point is
right now, it's negotiation time, and it projects for ten
years to be very positive and they're hot right now,
so like you have to pay them, now, what are
you going to pay them? The NBA players make fifty
percent of revenue, But the NBA players drive shoe sales,
they drive all sorts of apparel, they drive social media.
(24:18):
A handful can drive television ratings, they drive attendance. WNBA players,
Caitlin Clark is sort of a one of one, but
there's still value there. I don't think they'll get fifty
percent of revenues. Could they get thirty percent of revenues?
But the idea that like they well they've always lost money. Again,
think of it like you have an investment and all
(24:38):
of a sudden I was talking about earlier in my
little podcast company. If I had a podcast for four
years that lost money for four years, and there was
five months left on the contract and it suddenly got hot, well,
I'd probably resign them. If they will they made me
a bunch of money for the first three years, and
in the last year of the contract they hamorrhage money.
(24:59):
I probably I wouldn't sign them. It's all about momentum.
WNBA has it. When are we negotiating? Well, the WNBA
is negotiating as merchandise sales are going up, a tenant
is going up, and ratings are going up. Even if
it's only driven by one or two players, it's still working.
A tenants through the league is up. I would think
(25:20):
about extending the season ten games. That my take on
what to do with Caitlin Clark lighten up on the officiating,
call more fouls, keep her healthy. Secondly, I'd add ten
more games to the schedule more revenues. Is the merchandise
goes up and again the players then say, okay, we'll
pay a thirty percent, but we want ten more games
(25:42):
or eight more gag because right now the WNBA schedule
is it's like a college schedule. There's not that many games,
but the idea that well, they've lost a bunch of money.
All sorts of companies selled a premium having lost money.
The example I used earlier was the Athletic. It was
hemorrhage forty five million a year. The New York Times
still bought it. It still doesn't make a profit. It
(26:04):
adds scale and subscriptions to the New York Times. That's
very interesting. A lot of these companies that get purchased
are not making an annual profit. The bottom line is
the WNBA merchandise ticket sales ratings up and they've got
a star that drives a number. I want to be
in that business for the next ten years.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
The problem Colin and I was reading about this last
night is some of the teams are profitable, and I
can guarantee you the Indiana Fever are going to be profitable.
To say, yes, but do you all of a sudden
want a blanket statement that you know they players go
up from nine percent generating revenue to all of a
sudden everybody.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Gets thirty three percent.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well, if I'm one of these bad teams where I'm
losing money and all of a sudden, I've got to
pay my players way more. I don't know that we
can do that blanket thing because yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You know what, driving you know what, then sell your
franchise because I can assure you there are billionaires and
five hundred millionaires around the country that would buy these
franchises for two hundred and fifty million million.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Okay, you just lost money on the uh. I don't know.
Pick a team here, you know Atlanta Dream, You've been
losing money on them.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
For years, and now all of a sudden, you've got to.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Pay everybody way more money. Why would I Why would
I sell? You're gonna force me to sell now as
the league's are sending.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Well, you just said you don't want to pay money.
The bottom line, when you buy a pro sports team,
you're parking income.
Speaker 5 (27:25):
That's all you're doing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
The bottom line, If you lose at an annual basis,
but you buy it for two hundred and fifty million,
what you're predicting it'll be worth three hundred seventy five
million four years. If you go back and look with
WNBA franchises were seven years ago and today they've gone
up like ten times the MLS. I've tried to buy
into the MLS twice. I didn't have the money. When
I wanted to buy in, it was thirty five million.
(27:47):
They were then three years later worth eighty five million.
I tried to buy in small number at eighty five million.
They're now worth two hundred and seventy million. It's the
bottom line is you're buying into that. You know, it's
not the people that can afford that. These teams, they've
got thirty eight businesses. Mark Cuban owns seventy businesses. Not
when you own just a Mavericks, you have an operating
(28:08):
loss in some of your businesses.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So Colin, the problem with that is the league is
so dependent on Caitlin Clark. Now, if Kitlin Clark decides
I've had enough of basketball, I'm retiring, that's not happening.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
She walks away. Tell me where the WNBA growth is?
Is it still going through the roof?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Well, Vegan dates Beckers is a really nice player. She
ain't moving the needle like Caitlyn.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Tell me a bunch of tell me a bunch of
pro athletes who at twenty four, twenty five said I'm
just tired of my injury.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Five she's out for the year boom. The league's hurting well,
like again, the league is very reliant upon her. Why
can't we do the baseball model where we institute some
kind of salary floor around the league, Like, hey, owners
have to spend x amount, maybe.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Baseball fans want. I just don't like.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
All of a sudden, Hey, the league is growing, everybody
has to get paid. No, no, We're just gonna pay
those that are profitable.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
By the way, those guys get paid them.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
When Michael Jordan retired, the league lost fifty percent of
its ratings. They were very reliant on mj Very Yeah,
they just signed a seventy six billion dollar, eleven year contract.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Thirty years later.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Come on, well, no.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I mean after that was Kobe and Shack. You know,
there were a lot of great financial stories. We've had
the Spurs, you know, legendary dynasty. We had the Kobe
and Shack dynasty. We had the Warriors dynasty, we had
the Heatles. These were the safest place you can park
money in the world is in pro sports franchises. The
(29:31):
Yankees are going to be around in one hundred years.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
You don't know if Google is, you don't know if
Apple is. People used to.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Think Apple was untouchable. Steve Jobs left, it tanked. I mean,
Phil Knight stepped out of Nike for a couple of years.
Nike tanked, then he came back, it rebounded. These big companies,
you don't know what they're going to be in fifteen years.
It's bad management. Starbucks has been all over the map
the last three years based on who they hire a CEO.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
That's interesting. You said you tried to buy an MLS.
I bought into Aliga MX team in Mexico. By the way,
another team right now is on the market for four
hundred million. I won't even tell you what we bought
in at, but it's significantly lower. So if you were
given the opportunity right now, would you buy into a
WNBA team?
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Absolutely? In one second.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
All right, I'll play middleman and see what I can
do for you, big guy.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I know some people, but I would like to see
you put your money where you're I mean, like, no,
nobody's offering Seattle Storm. If they were looking for an
investor at a certain evaluation, you would invest in the WNA.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Absolutely now, that's interesting.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, two years ago, I was interested. I want to
I was interested in the MLS again for the third time.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
I mean, listen, soccer is going to get massive over
the next eighteen months with the World Cup coming up
in this country that is one hundred percent coming. I
just I do think there is upside in the WNBA.
This rapid expansion has me a little concern. Are the
rosters deep enough. There's just not that many great players
in the league, Colin, Are there enough to justify like
(31:02):
two four teams that they said their word?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Are they going? Cleveland now is one of the expansion teams?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Well, every league is overbuilt. You could cut six hockey
teams if the Saint Louis Blues left tomorrow, how's the league?
You could cut four to five NFL teams and NBA team.
Look at Major League Baseball. The bottom six teams payroll
can't compete. If the Pirates left tomorrow. I love the
Pirates is a kain. If they left tomorrow, the sport
would be buying. Those are all leagues with like thirty teams.
(31:28):
WNBA is like fifteen teams. Sixteen teams. Yeah, you know,
I just think they'll get I think they should get
to twenty very quickly, and I think they will all
I'm saying is if I had a if somebody just
said here's two million dollars, I go, I go tonight,
and I scratch off ticket, and I have two million
dollars after taxes, I keep one point twenty five.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
I'd put it in the WNBA tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Really, you would.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Just put it, put it in a low cost ETF
and just watch the money roll in.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Bolling.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know you're an exciting guy with them.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I want to own a team and go court side
and be like, hello, another cocktail for Uncle Colin.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
I want free fun.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Cow heard the coastal elite now owning sports teams.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
What a life? What are happen for dinner tonight, lobster.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I'm just telling you the way. The only way you
can get good a good value on anything you buy
is not when it's the hottest thing in the world.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
So as there's all this, oh, the WNBA is not worth.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
It, I think the smart people are like, yeah, I'll invest,
I'll invest. Now, I would invest. I'd have no problem.
I'd like to really invest in the Indiana fever. I
admit that
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
J Mack, you're just figuring out that Stephen Colbert story.
That was a big pot topical weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I listen man on the weekends. I try to spend
time with the fam, do some sports. I play volleyball
and basketball Saturday. It was amazing.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I'm not online, I'm not reading. Come on, I'm relaxing
and enjoying summer. Okay, what are you doing in Chicago?
You're reading about Colbert the Demise of Late yesterday?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
By eleven thirty, I was watching the British Open, reading
my Fox Sports College Football preview book and I may
have tipped an early one. Feel good about myself.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
So, by the way, do they have cigars in Chicago
or are you off the cigars now?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Do they have cigars in Chicago? Yeah, they even have
them in Wisconsin, the state above us Kenosha has a
cigar story back, Come on, that's not a Hegan probably
does as well.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Kenosha. That's a town.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, it's god, it's beautiful. You have to get out
here and realize there's a world beyond the two one
three area code eight one eight, you know, worry forgot
what the area code was there?
Speaker 5 (01:29):
All right?
Speaker 6 (01:30):
J Mack with the news, No turns, this is the
herd Line News.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Let's talk a little Detroit Lions, Colon, I still remember
that loss in the playoffs to Washington goff was horrible.
But uh, Jamior GiB the great running back for Detroit.
He said he's ready to do whatever it takes to
win a Super Bowl. He's willing to line up at
safety or nickelback. I guess he's been reading about Travis Hunter.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I don't know, Colin.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I feel like the windows kind of closing for the Lions.
Gid Well Superstar, but it's just it feels like the
ship is ailed.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Windows don't close when you have a really good general
manager and scouting department, and and unlike the Bengals, the
Lions have poured more money into it. So this is
an organization that has drafted similarly to Philadelphia has hit
on so many first, second, and third round draft picks
(02:25):
that they are going to keep the books reasonable. Aiden
Hutchison comes back this year. They did lose a center,
and they addressed that in the draft. They went heavy
interior linemen. I think they're I think there are certain
team Baltimore drafts too well. Philadelphia, the Rams, Buffalo's drafted
very well.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Green Bay historically drafts well.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
If you draft well, your windows may regress, but they
don't close. Dallas has closed because they have not New England.
Belichick at the end closed they drafted poor.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, I did see that they suffered another injury. The
Lions over the weekend lost in defensive starter for the season.
They just can't stay healthy. It's unfortunate. But let's move
on to next up. The New York Giants. Colin, I
think both of us were shocked when they drafted Jackson
Dart in the first round.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Did not make sense to me.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Russell Wilson Sphillicks still expected to get the start, but
everybody's expecting a lot of Jackson Dart this season.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Dart told The New York Post he ain't scared of the.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Pressure that comes with playing in New York, adding that
this is where he wanted to be.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Any thoughts here.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
On Jackson Dart, who I'm just telling you every time
I read about the Giants, the coaching staff loves Jackson Dart,
loves him well.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I mean, there's things that I think work in Jackson
Dart's favor. He think about it as a rookie quarterback. Up,
I said, what three things do you want? Number one
offensive coach? Number two, a good left tackle, number three,
a number one receiver. He's got all of them. If
I if I was if I came into the league
(04:05):
or my son did, I'd say, please give him an
offensive coach, please protect his backside, and give him a weapon.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
And they have all those.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So the idea this is a bad place for Jackson Dart,
not a bad place for Jackson Dart would have been
drafted to the Bears last year, where Caleb Williams got
an O line that regressed a defensive coach kind of
a number one, but there was just in a really
good division. This is a This is about as good
as you're gonna do as a rookie quarterback. And it's
(04:36):
funny about the Giants. I like their defensive front so
I do think defensively, you know, it's it's they can
make things uncomfortable for you. Whoever quarterbacks then will not
have to win shootouts every week. It's it's if the
Giants right now had the quarterback right I'd think differently
about them.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
The schedule is brutal, but there are.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Elements defensive line, receiver, left tackle, coach, There's some stuff there.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I like, Yeah, I had analytics guy on my podcast
last week and he said the Giants unequivocally have the
toughest schedule in the NFC. Yes, So, I mean I
feel bad for Jackson Dart. I mean, I don't see
a ton of wins on this schedule. You go, maybe
you get the lay up in New Orleans, but again,
facing right out of the gate, Washington, Kansas City Chargers, Eagles,
Broncos Eagles, those are all playoff teams from last year.
(05:28):
Like that, I don't know how Russell Wilson's gonna still
be the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Come like Halloween. They're gonna just have to try Dart.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
The only reason I don't think this is good, Colin
is because what happens if Dabell gets blown out?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
If they win four or five games.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
He's getting dusted, right, and then it's like Dart.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Has to win over the new head coach.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I don't see it now. Maybe Malik Nighbors is heroic.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I'm still surprised he's considered like a top seven receiver
in the league already, But I don't see it happening
for Jackson, Dart and the Giants.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
This year finals coins go to.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
The Kansas City Chiefs, So we got.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Some good news for them. George car laftis the edge rusher.
I believe he went to Purdue. He got a four year,
ninety three million.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Dollar contract extension, first round.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Pick of the Chiefs. He's been solid since his rookie year.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I don't think he's been spectacular, but you need a
bunch of these good edge rushers.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well deliver because you got to rotate the Meniski Milk.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Look who's in the division now, Bow Knicks and Sean Payton,
Justin Herbert and Jim Harbaugh. If you're gonna pay your defense,
it's pass rush guys. So he was a good player
at Purdue. He's been a very productive. Chris Jones getting
a bit older, although Chris still has some years remaining
on his deal. But if you're gonna pay when you
get into a division, you got to look at your
(06:44):
division and say, who do we have to stop.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
Well, it's your Kansas City.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now, the Chargers have two good offensive tackles, a real
run game, Harvon Herbert. You probably want to pay a
pass rusher. And by the way, you got Sean Payton
bow Knicks. Garrett Bowles is a great left tackle. So
if you start looking at the matchups in the division,
Carl Loft, this is a guy I'm probably going to pay.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah, I'm looking at the chief super Bowl stats. Carl
Aft has actually had one of the two sacks in
the Super Bowl. No, not a lot of highlights on
that team. They got just boat raced by the Eagles,
and one of us here on the show called that.
But you know that's dinner here on there.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Jmck of the news.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Not only as he played more NFL games than any
current NFL player, he didn't miss a he didn't miss
a game for the Chicago Bears the last two years.
Now he's a free agent. He's our buddy. Mercedes Lewis,
a pro bowler nineteen years in the NFL, who I'm
told just got done working out. Now, last time I
talked to you, you wanted to play. Do you still Are
you still willing to get on a roster? Would you
play today?
Speaker 7 (07:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (07:47):
I mean right now, the goal is to played one
more year. You know, just nineteen is amazing. I'm super
grateful for that. Obviously, we've had a conversation about it.
Twenty the grounds off the legacy for me, So right
now it's just standard operating for Sezures, just working out
and doing my thing.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Man, is there a team you fit?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Who needs a blocking tight end, who's smart, who needs
a guy like Mercedes Lewis?
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Where do you fit?
Speaker 8 (08:15):
I mean, obviously a team that's definitely going to run
the ball, a team that play pass and play action,
the kind of ties the running the pass game together.
I'm not necessarily gonna throw teams out there, but there's
been a few that have kind of reached out, kind
of probing to see if I'm going to continue to play.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
So what's the ir source out? You know?
Speaker 8 (08:35):
Obviously with me, it's all about controlling what I can control,
and what I can control has been in great shape
and being ready when my name is called.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
So you know, here we go.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Did Green Bay reach out Baltimore?
Speaker 7 (08:49):
No, those two didn't reach out?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Okay, well they both have a very extensive run game. Okay,
I want to throw that there. Did Arizona reach out?
Make of that one there? Arizona rechaum? Okay, hey man,
I'm a journalist, Mercedes, this is what John's do.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
I'm fash No, no, no, I get it. I mean
it's again, It's it's been like three or four Obviously,
they're trying to make sure they have what they need
on the roster, and you know, we'll see what happens
once camp gets going.
Speaker 7 (09:25):
You know, the grind it is as far.
Speaker 8 (09:27):
As camp and how hard it is to stay healthy in
this league. So for me, it's just about kind of
figuring out what that that magic number is going to
be for me in my mind of when I want
to go ahead and retire, you know, because I don't.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
See myself necessarily waiting the whole season right now, I'm.
Speaker 8 (09:48):
Still very inspired and motivated to go for one more year,
and I'll just take it one day at a time
and see what happens.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter Not a Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 9 (10:05):
Hey, we're Covino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 9 (10:10):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for. Yeah, you blubber list lame in me.
Speaker 9 (10:28):
Well you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 9 (10:46):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored by
the way, So maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
A little harder.
Speaker 9 (10:53):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
There you go, over Promising and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
We didn't miss any games with the Bears. We talked
about Caleb Williams. I said, one of the things that's
fascinating about him, there's a wide range of outcomes. Most
of his issues, in my opinion, are solvable. Like Lamar
Jackson when he came into the league didn't have much
of a pocket presence because he had such a capability,
like he didn't have to sit in the pocket. Two
(11:28):
years later, from about year three to now, you're like, Okay,
he's very comfortable in the pocket. He sends his pressure,
he doesn't just bolt. Josh Allen wasn't accurate. By year three,
You're like, oh, he's developed accuracy. I think that's kind
of Caleb. It's not an arm elusiveness, toughness, smart. I
don't worry about that stuff you played with him, I
don't worry about that. But he does miss laps. He
(11:50):
could be a little hero ball. He does hold onto
the ball too long? Is there when you are playing
with him? The holding onto the ball too long? I
think that's understood. A lot of people have talked about that.
How do you solve that.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Having a plan?
Speaker 8 (12:08):
If you remember when we spoke a little while ago
about Caleb, it was about just the disarrayed that the
offense was in and the firing of the coaches and.
Speaker 7 (12:19):
Just different philosophies.
Speaker 8 (12:22):
I think it was just too many cooks in the
kitchen at that time, and obviously coming in for his
rookie season, it's kind of tough to kind of go
through that. But at the same time, you know who
he is as a player, as a person who he
sees himself as every day we wakes up in the morning.
The guy wants to be great. He wants to be coachaball.
I think right now he's in a really good situation
(12:43):
now with the new coaching staff and they added some
support there for him, and I think everything that you
just mentioned won't be an issue.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
So, I mean, he's a guy that.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
As far as just a dude being able to play
the game of football, he can do. So it's just
about having a plan to making sure that you know
what he wants and what he's really good at is
an alignment with then.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
And I'm pretty sure they're over there.
Speaker 8 (13:09):
Working hard at it to make sure they're putting it
things so that he's successful this year. And I just
look forward to seeing him play. I think he's going
to be solid.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So quarterbacks over forty in the NFL have won twelve
playoff games ever, and Brady's got ten of them, all right,
So it's hard. And I was surprised Aaron went to
Pittsburgh might take his first ballot Hall of Famer. He
did New York like far of it was messy. I
could see him just retiring. He's a West Coast guy,
and I do think that Pittsburgh's been a little tone
(13:38):
deaf on offense. They can't get the O line right
for six years. Even though I like some of their
offensive personnel. I think they've drafted the West Virginia center,
the Oregon State lineman, like I like some of the
offensive line personnel, they can't get it right. Were you
surprised he did decide because he could have retired. Were
you surprised he decided to play out east with the Steelers.
Speaker 8 (13:59):
No, I wasn't surprised, And I don't know if you
remember when you know you asked me that question, maybe
a couple of months ago.
Speaker 7 (14:06):
I picked for him to go to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
I just felt like, you know, to get out of
New York, get on a team where the defense is solid.
Obviously they you know, they're trying to figure it out
on offense, but a Rod may be that piece. Right Like,
if you think about it, the quarterbacks that were there,
if you name, you know, five or six quarterbacks as
they've had, I'm gonna still pick a Rod over all
of them. And they've been able to get to the
(14:28):
playoffs and have a winning season. So you know, I'm
looking forward to see how a Rod messages in with
Pittsburgh and see if you can get that offense going.
But I think with him there, it gives them a
good shot.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know what's funny about you came into the league,
big tall athletic, you could go vertical, and then you
pivoted at some point in your career to more of
a blocking tight end. You always blocked, but you became
more of a blocking tight end. You know, tight end
is weird. Antonio Gates was undrafted. That's crazy, Travis George
Kittle like fifth round guys. It's just it's crazy to me.
(15:05):
And I go back to you were a first you
were at the end of the first round of Jacksonville.
It does seem though, that many tight ends have surprised us.
Nobody thought Kittle was going to do this. I mean, seriously,
Antonio Gates is an undrafted Hall of Famer. When you
watch young tight ends, what do you look for that
(15:27):
maybe I wouldn't you watch college football and you say
that works, that doesn't like?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
What would you.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Look at if you ever coached or you went into
a front office and I said, Mercedes, we got four
tight ends on the board.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
What do you like and what do you don't like? What?
What would you pinpoint?
Speaker 8 (15:46):
I think the first thing that I've probably look for
is toughness. You know, obviously you can go out there,
run around, catch a ball, cool, But.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
Are you tough? You know?
Speaker 8 (15:57):
Are you a woman blocker? Are you are you down
to get dirty? Can you, you know, do the dirty work?
And then as far as like your skill set, can
you ben right like a lot of the guys that
you know block really well in this league? And can
ben And for me that was one of the things
coming out. Obviously I was a high like high cut guy,
(16:20):
long legs, but I was flexible and I can bend,
and I was a willing blocker.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
So as far as where I am to then in my.
Speaker 8 (16:26):
Career, it's just been a steady progression of just getting
better at the basics while still keeping my flexibility and
being able to bend, uh and then most.
Speaker 7 (16:35):
Of all just my toughness.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
So when I when I watched the film, I'm looking
at how tough you are as a person, Like when
everything is not going good and when you're you're down,
are you still doing your thing? Are you still blocking
and doing the little things? Because when you're playing tight end,
it's not just about catching touchdowns like we it's so
much that gets put on our plate that you know,
(16:57):
just the naked eye wouldn't even understand. And you have
to have a certain mental fortitude to kind of battle through,
you know, those fault lines of you know, trying to
be the best you can every day at its tight
end position. So those guys that you name all have
that similar thread about them, and you know that's you
know what they are where they are now.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You know, I love asking this question, so occasionally you
have to get a lined up across from a Miles
Garrett or a Jared Verse because of the situation in
the set. You're like, oh, brother, if I told you
there's one player that you've played against the nineteen years
that you wish you didn't have to play against. If
there was one guy when you're sitting in that hotel
(17:39):
the night for a game, you're like, oh crap, this
is I'm just I got to get ready for an
ice bath. Who is the single toughest guy when he
shifts over that you have to block. You'd never show him,
you'd never let us, you never let him see it.
But you were like, not a good time.
Speaker 7 (17:59):
I mean, yeah, I'll say this, so I'll give you.
I'll give you a couple.
Speaker 8 (18:07):
One I'll say, uh, probably Julius Peppers or Javon Kurtse Right,
that was earlier on in my career, where uh, those
those dudes are monstars, right, and like that's who I
kind of like looked up to when I was in
college and when I had the opportunity to play against them,
I you know, I learned a lot of lessons and
it kind of made you better as a player. But
(18:30):
those guys are just animals on the edge and it
kind of helped me build my gristle for who I
am today and you know, being able to go against
all these freaks at this point in my career. And
I would say right now and it literally would have
to be Miles Garrett Max Crosby.
Speaker 7 (18:49):
I think.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
I think those two are just dynamic and what they
do both both different but the same, and how they
get after it as far as there and them having
a plan right, and those two have really good counters
to whatever their favorite moves are. So you just always
got to be on your toes because they're they're just different.
(19:12):
They're different, Like those guys jump off the screen, and
you know what type of game is going to be
when you play against those guys. And the last time
we talked about it, I kind of alluded to the
night before the game, like if I'm playing against you know,
either of those guys or guys that like, like, my
whole body feels different, Like my mentality it kind of
(19:34):
shifts in a way, but my body feels different because
I know that I'm going to be in a dogfight
and you know, at the end of the day, it
makes this game what it is like. I'm grateful to
have those moments and kind of be in positioned to
kind of feel what it feels like to compete at
the highest level and those guys being the best out
of me.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
One more question for Mercedes Lewis. Can you tell how long.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Does it take you, guy who's been in this league
nineteen years? If you go to a camp, go to
your last six or seven years, do you know instantly
how many practices does it take for you to go, Oh, crap,
that kid's not gonna work here, or holy that guy
is like Jared Verse literally game two you're like, Yeah,
(20:19):
that's gonna work. But how many practices do you need
to see? And you're better at this because you're blocking them,
do you need to see, Oh, that's not gonna work,
that kid's not gonna work.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
It would take me three practices with full pads to
know that. Like, if I'm going against somebody if this
obviously it'll probably be very dependent on the position, right,
But if I'm going against a guy who's either a
linebacker or de missivevent, it's over me and I'm actually getting,
you know, to fill that that interaction or that side
(20:56):
of it. I would probably say about three practices with
full pads. If you're like a skill guy, a quarterback,
maybe it takes a little longer, but as far as
like being in the trenches, probably like three practices to
know that, like you're either going to be a dude
or you're just going to be a guy.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, Mercedes Lewis nighteen years still available, Man, I don't
want to get nosy, but that NFL pension that's going
to be.
Speaker 8 (21:31):
Yeah, man, I don't maybe when I'll probably look at
it when I'm when it's all said and done, but
it should be sweet.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You'll go to Craigs four nights a week and order
chicken palm and not even worry about it.
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Bro yep, just work out, order good Italian food and
mind my business.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Great seeing you. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Likewise, brother, thank you? Man all right?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Nineteen years playing pro football, Oh my god, and didn't.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Miss a game with Bears the last two years.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Like some guys like Lebron's like that Lebron got I
mean Lebron's obviously.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
Worked at it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But some guys, I mean John Lynch at safety. I
asked John John Lynch led headfirst. I mean he was
one of the hardest hitting safeties. He and Chuck cecil
for over a decade. And I asked Lynch, once you
ever have a concussion? He's like, no, never had one?
Like what, hell do you know what? No, never had one.
(22:28):
Like some guys just got the man upstairs, the entity upstairs,
you know, touches them. Was something that very few players have.
They just they just stay healthy in very physical environments.
Wrap it up next in Chicago, it's The Herd.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I think one of the interesting stories. And this has
been the case, and I think we're a long way
from over. The WNBA again is in the news because
the players went out this weekend.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
And you know, war shirts pay us what you owe us.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So it's very easy to say this league has lost
so much money over the years, they don't deserve any money.
But the truth is, as an investment, it only really
matters when the negotiation process takes place, and it's taking
place now and the WNBA finally is hot. Now you
could say it's only hot because of Caitlin Clark. But
(23:34):
when Tiger Woods came on the tour, nobody else was
driving the revenue that Tiger was. So what if you
were an advertiser, you wanted to be part of the
PGA because everybody was watching Tiger. The truth is, whatever
broadcast network has the WNBA games, they put Caitlin Clark
on all the time. And Angel Reese is getting a brand.
(23:55):
Not to that point, but I mean the point is
right now, it's negotiation time, and it projects for ten
years to be very positive and they're hot right now,
so like you have to pay them, now, what are
you going to pay them? The NBA players make fifty
percent of revenue, But the NBA players drive shoe sales,
they drive all sorts of apparel, they drive social media.
(24:18):
A handful can drive television ratings, they drive attendance. WNBA players,
Caitlin Clark is sort of a one of one, but
there's still value there. I don't think they'll get fifty
percent of revenues. Could they get thirty percent of revenues?
But the idea that like they well they've always lost money. Again,
think of it like you have an investment and all
(24:38):
of a sudden I was talking about earlier in my
little podcast company. If I had a podcast for four
years that lost money for four years, and there was
five months left on the contract and it suddenly got hot, well,
I'd probably resign them. If they will they made me
a bunch of money for the first three years, and
in the last year of the contract they hamorrhage money.
(24:59):
I probably I wouldn't sign them. It's all about momentum.
WNBA has it. When are we negotiating? Well, the WNBA
is negotiating as merchandise sales are going up, a tenant
is going up, and ratings are going up. Even if
it's only driven by one or two players, it's still working.
A tenants through the league is up. I would think
(25:20):
about extending the season ten games. That my take on
what to do with Caitlin Clark lighten up on the officiating,
call more fouls, keep her healthy. Secondly, I'd add ten
more games to the schedule more revenues. Is the merchandise
goes up and again the players then say, okay, we'll
pay a thirty percent, but we want ten more games
(25:42):
or eight more gag because right now the WNBA schedule
is it's like a college schedule. There's not that many games,
but the idea that well, they've lost a bunch of money.
All sorts of companies selled a premium having lost money.
The example I used earlier was the Athletic. It was
hemorrhage forty five million a year. The New York Times
still bought it. It still doesn't make a profit. It
(26:04):
adds scale and subscriptions to the New York Times. That's
very interesting. A lot of these companies that get purchased
are not making an annual profit. The bottom line is
the WNBA merchandise ticket sales ratings up and they've got
a star that drives a number. I want to be
in that business for the next ten years.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
The problem Colin and I was reading about this last
night is some of the teams are profitable, and I
can guarantee you the Indiana Fever are going to be profitable.
To say, yes, but do you all of a sudden
want a blanket statement that you know they players go
up from nine percent generating revenue to all of a
sudden everybody.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Gets thirty three percent.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well, if I'm one of these bad teams where I'm
losing money and all of a sudden, I've got to
pay my players way more. I don't know that we
can do that blanket thing because yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You know what, driving you know what, then sell your
franchise because I can assure you there are billionaires and
five hundred millionaires around the country that would buy these
franchises for two hundred and fifty million million.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Okay, you just lost money on the uh. I don't know.
Pick a team here, you know Atlanta Dream, You've been
losing money on them.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
For years, and now all of a sudden, you've got to.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Pay everybody way more money. Why would I Why would
I sell? You're gonna force me to sell now as
the league's are sending.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Well, you just said you don't want to pay money.
The bottom line, when you buy a pro sports team,
you're parking income.
Speaker 5 (27:25):
That's all you're doing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
The bottom line, If you lose at an annual basis,
but you buy it for two hundred and fifty million,
what you're predicting it'll be worth three hundred seventy five
million four years. If you go back and look with
WNBA franchises were seven years ago and today they've gone
up like ten times the MLS. I've tried to buy
into the MLS twice. I didn't have the money. When
I wanted to buy in, it was thirty five million.
(27:47):
They were then three years later worth eighty five million.
I tried to buy in small number at eighty five million.
They're now worth two hundred and seventy million. It's the
bottom line is you're buying into that. You know, it's
not the people that can afford that. These teams, they've
got thirty eight businesses. Mark Cuban owns seventy businesses. Not
when you own just a Mavericks, you have an operating
(28:08):
loss in some of your businesses.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
So Colin, the problem with that is the league is
so dependent on Caitlin Clark. Now, if Kitlin Clark decides
I've had enough of basketball, I'm retiring, that's not happening.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
She walks away. Tell me where the WNBA growth is?
Is it still going through the roof?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Well, Vegan dates Beckers is a really nice player. She
ain't moving the needle like Caitlyn.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Tell me a bunch of tell me a bunch of
pro athletes who at twenty four, twenty five said I'm
just tired of my injury.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Five she's out for the year boom. The league's hurting well,
like again, the league is very reliant upon her. Why
can't we do the baseball model where we institute some
kind of salary floor around the league, Like, hey, owners
have to spend x amount, maybe.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Baseball fans want. I just don't like.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
All of a sudden, Hey, the league is growing, everybody
has to get paid. No, no, We're just gonna pay
those that are profitable.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
By the way, those guys get paid them.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
When Michael Jordan retired, the league lost fifty percent of
its ratings. They were very reliant on mj Very Yeah,
they just signed a seventy six billion dollar, eleven year contract.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Thirty years later.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Come on, well, no.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I mean after that was Kobe and Shack. You know,
there were a lot of great financial stories. We've had
the Spurs, you know, legendary dynasty. We had the Kobe
and Shack dynasty. We had the Warriors dynasty, we had
the Heatles. These were the safest place you can park
money in the world is in pro sports franchises. The
(29:31):
Yankees are going to be around in one hundred years.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
You don't know if Google is, you don't know if
Apple is. People used to.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Think Apple was untouchable. Steve Jobs left, it tanked. I mean,
Phil Knight stepped out of Nike for a couple of years.
Nike tanked, then he came back, it rebounded. These big companies,
you don't know what they're going to be in fifteen years.
It's bad management. Starbucks has been all over the map
the last three years based on who they hire a CEO.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
That's interesting. You said you tried to buy an MLS.
I bought into Aliga MX team in Mexico. By the way,
another team right now is on the market for four
hundred million. I won't even tell you what we bought
in at, but it's significantly lower. So if you were
given the opportunity right now, would you buy into a
WNBA team?
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Absolutely? In one second.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
All right, I'll play middleman and see what I can
do for you, big guy.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I know some people, but I would like to see
you put your money where you're I mean, like, no,
nobody's offering Seattle Storm. If they were looking for an
investor at a certain evaluation, you would invest in the WNA.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Absolutely now, that's interesting.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, two years ago, I was interested. I want to
I was interested in the MLS again for the third time.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
I mean, listen, soccer is going to get massive over
the next eighteen months with the World Cup coming up
in this country that is one hundred percent coming. I
just I do think there is upside in the WNBA.
This rapid expansion has me a little concern. Are the
rosters deep enough. There's just not that many great players
in the league, Colin, Are there enough to justify like
(31:02):
two four teams that they said their word?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Are they going? Cleveland now is one of the expansion teams?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Well, every league is overbuilt. You could cut six hockey
teams if the Saint Louis Blues left tomorrow, how's the league?
You could cut four to five NFL teams and NBA team.
Look at Major League Baseball. The bottom six teams payroll
can't compete. If the Pirates left tomorrow. I love the
Pirates is a kain. If they left tomorrow, the sport
would be buying. Those are all leagues with like thirty teams.
(31:28):
WNBA is like fifteen teams. Sixteen teams. Yeah, you know,
I just think they'll get I think they should get
to twenty very quickly, and I think they will all
I'm saying is if I had a if somebody just
said here's two million dollars, I go, I go tonight,
and I scratch off ticket, and I have two million
dollars after taxes, I keep one point twenty five.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
I'd put it in the WNBA tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Really, you would.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Just put it, put it in a low cost ETF
and just watch the money roll in.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Bolling.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know you're an exciting guy with them.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I want to own a team and go court side
and be like, hello, another cocktail for Uncle Colin.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
I want free fun.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Cow heard the coastal elite now owning sports teams.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
What a life? What are happen for dinner tonight, lobster.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I'm just telling you the way. The only way you
can get good a good value on anything you buy
is not when it's the hottest thing in the world.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
So as there's all this, oh, the WNBA is not worth.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
It, I think the smart people are like, yeah, I'll invest,
I'll invest. Now, I would invest. I'd have no problem.
I'd like to really invest in the Indiana fever. I
admit that
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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