December 23, 2024 • 35 mins
Colin looks at Sam Darnold orchestrating another 4th quarter comeback for the Vikings and believes Darnold has proven he should be their starting QB going forward. He tells you why he was right about Brock Purdy and wrong about Kyler Murray. Plus, 3-time Pro Bowler Matt Hasselbeck joins the show to tell Colin why he still has questions about Caleb Williams even though he hasn't throw an interception in 9 straight games.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
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by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to The Herd Podcast. Oh we got a Monday. What
(00:23):
a weekend of football started Friday. It'll be done tonight
with the Packers hammer in the Saints. That's gonna happen
live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may
be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making
us part of your day. Jamac one hour from now,
where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. Okay, the
college football fans are all freaking out, don't overreact. We'll
get to that in about a half hour. It's all good.
(00:46):
Next week's neutral sites games are gonna be great. But
you know, years ago, as I told New York Zach
Wilson and Daniel Jones were not gonna work. Before that,
I told him Sam Darnold was gonna work. And sometimes
j Mackett takes a while to be right. So there's
(01:07):
an old saying and it's one of my favorites. Outline
your life in pencil, not pen Things change, opportunities arise,
don't be rigid, keep your eyes open. And I know
Sam Darnold was supposed to be like a one year thing,
(01:27):
but he is so good with Justin Jefferson, he is
so clutch in the fourth quarter. This is no longer
just a good story. This is an excellent team and
he is an excellent quarterback. This isn't the twenty seven Vikings.
Remember that pre Kirk Cousins case Keenum thirteen wins, Case
had twenty two touchdown Sam's got thirty two in counting,
(01:49):
and he's eight and one in one score games. He
has just been so good. And quarterbacks are either trucks
where they're pulling the team or they're trailers where they're
being pulled. Sam's a truck. He's pulling this team. They
lost their excellent left tackle, one of the best in
(02:11):
the game, maybe the best in the game. They lost him.
Sam's like we good eight to no without him. That
fourth quarter gamining drive encapsulates all of Sam Darnold, the
athletic ability, the toughness, making big throws in big moments.
There is no denying he is helping pull this team.
I'm not denying the receiving course good. Kevin O'Connell's an
(02:33):
amazing They call him the Taal Sean McVay. But this
is not the case keenum team. This is not just
a guy that comes in and we all kind of
fall in love with the story. Vegas had these guys
at six wins. That's what Vegas had him at six wins.
This is not a great roster Detroit when healthy. Great roster, Philadelphia,
(02:53):
great roster, Buffalo, really really good roster. Baltimore excellent roster.
This fusster's is pretty good. But Darnold's toughness, his coach ability,
his playmaking, that last drive man, that's something else. And
again lost their left tackle. Wasn't perfect. This team could
(03:15):
still be the number one seed. Number one seed. And
I know you drafted JJ McCarthy, I get it, And
I know you brought in Daniel Jones. Understood, But to me,
you got a franchise tagament minimum. You can't let him go.
What if he ends up somewhere along the way and
comes back to beat you, And maybe this is the
(03:35):
best Sam could ever be. And I'm not going to
deny that. Justin Jefferson, there's one in the league. And
Kevin O'Connell is an excellent young coach, and Minnesota's always
been a pretty well run franchise. I'm not denying that,
But outline your life in pencil. Plans, change opportunities, arise.
(03:56):
Employees are better than you think. And I'm not saying
it's jess Sam. This offense got real players, but they
lost their left tackle. I've seen other quarterbacks rhymes with
Brock Purty lose a left tackle or a running back
and shrieked, not slinging Sammy Darnald. Another win. Still, a
(04:19):
number one set is viable, and here's the coach after.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
There wasn't really one guy. And I know I'm not
speaking for myself. I thought we were gonna go down
and we're gonna get a touchdown. And I think the
level of confidence that that group has in their quarterback
and the level of confidence the quarterback has in the
ten guys in the huddle is significant, and that's how
you're able to go do that in that moment on
the road at this place, you know you can't hear
yourself think it's pretty fantastic, you know, performance in that
(04:46):
moment by you know, not just our quarterback, but all
eleven of those guys out there.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Slinging Sammy Darnald. It took a while, but he's special.
So I don't want to overreact. You know, mondays off
a crazy football weekend, it becomes overreaction Monday. I don't
want to overreact to the Eagles losing to Washington. Okay,
Jalen Hurts very early, got a concussion. It's not the
(05:12):
same team. It's a great roster, but it is a
quarterback league, and I'm not going to overreact because Jaden
Daniels as a rookie through five touchdown passes. The bigger
story is why the NFL is king because you get
the right coach and the right rookie quarterback. You draft
the right guy and you can go from an NFL
(05:32):
embarrassment for over a decade to the playoffs in three months.
And that's what you're seeing. Jaden Daniels does not have
a great roster. He's got one big time weapon. But
you can see some Lamar Jackson, you can see the pois.
You could see ten to fifteen years of playoffs. I
mean I grew up and they had a different name,
but this was a great franchise. I've said before that
(05:55):
the Washington football franchise reminds me of the Golden State Warriors.
I grew up up in the seventies and Washington the
football team and Golden State the basketball team had legendary
players and you could argue they have the best fan bases.
But mismanagement or bad ownership and the Warriors just sort
of regress into irrelevant even on the West Coast. And
(06:15):
then it all turns around with Steph Curry in Washington,
the George Allen Washington team nineteen seventy two Super Bowl,
this Joe Gibbs, I mean, this was for a long time.
This was tough and physical in the Hogs and then
Dan Snyder and as we always say on this show, ownership,
(06:35):
bad teams all have one thing in common, and it's
not a bad coach and it's not a bad quarterback. Cincinnati,
I think has a good coach and a great quarterback.
It's usually upstairs, but all you need is the right
coach and the right quarterback. And finally they got a
bad owner out and a great owner in and you're
looking at playoffs. That final drive, what was great about that?
(06:57):
Not just the three fourth quarter touchdown by Jaden Daniels.
He threw a pick on the previous drive, so what unfazed?
Cut it loose, didn't care very andrew luck, very short memory.
And this rookie quarterback class, by the way, we may
have five for five. I'll watch Panix this weekend. That
dude's good. So obviously the Jalen Hurts concussion can change
(07:20):
the outcome. But here's what's amazing about this kid. And
I've said this before, the difference between the halves and
the have nots at quarterbacks. When are you good? Okay,
when are you good? Do you lose a left tackle?
Sam Darnold? You go eight? No, it can't just be
when everything's great. When are you good? This kid has
(07:41):
a one to six passer rating while trailing. That's like
goat stuff. Okay, that's Mahomes. Early Mahomes was better trailing.
You could never tell if Mahomes was leading or trailing.
You could never tell a lot of quarterbacks in this
league with protection they're leading. They all look great. Thrown
(08:01):
on second and two, Jayden Daniels has a good old line.
It's better. They got Cliff Kingsbury and the offensive staff
have done nice job. It's a better O line top
seven or eight. It's not Detroit, it's not Philly, it's
probably not Atlanta, but it's good. But he's got a
great passer rating trailing and one hundred and fifteen passer
rating in the fourth quarter. That is unheard of for
(08:24):
a rookie that those numbers. This is not September, We're
not early October. We're now late December. Like that's who
the kid is. And this is probably the worst Rostery
plays with, at least while he's on his rookie contract.
Right once they pay him the big money, you got
to make concessions. But for the next two to three
(08:45):
years he'd not make any money. So this roster's only
going to get better. This kid is nails fourth quarter
trailing And I know, I know Jalen Hurts was out,
But if you're doing things now in late December in
Chile weather against the number one defense in the league
and driving down that last drive was art, baby, that's
(09:05):
what the great ones look like. That is goat stuff.
And we said we bought with everybody on their show
loved him. J Mack loved him. I loved him coming
out of college. But he is better than I thought
early and here he is after.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I always believe that it was going the game no
matter what, the game's never overtook, oklock you through. I
think you live for these type of moments. You know,
you got those guys that came in on the win
streak they were on, they were hot, and they're a
very good team, rightfully, so good offense, good defense, all around,
well prepared team. And you want to go out there
see where you match and you match up against those
(09:39):
type of guys.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Gotta tell you sometimes I feel so lucky to do
this for a living. I'm watching all these young quarterbacks.
Panics looks poised, Jaden is money. Caleb hasn't thrown a
pick in forever since like Halloween, bo Nicks. I think
he and Sean Payton work. I don't know about JJ McCarthy,
but Drake May yesterday, I'm like, oh, oh, dude, can play.
(10:02):
I mean, I think we did a five for five.
I mean Pennix even when Pennix was throwing the ball
away yesterday, he was good. But none of them have
been consistently as good trailing and in the fourth quarter
as Jaden Daniels. This is exciting time. I mean for
(10:22):
a Washington franchise. I'm telling you it was the Warriors
for a long time. They were great in the seventies.
Talk about the eighties and all of a sudden you're like,
post Joe Gibbs, It's like, Yeah, what's going on here?
Fad ownership. I'd love to see Washington fifteen year run
with this kid. Can you imagine having Lamar Jackson in
(10:44):
the Ravens and right around the corner having Jaden Daniels
basically kind of like the duplicate. He's a little better
in the pocket than early Lamar, maybe not as electric
running quite as Lamar. What a rival this could be,
even though one's NFC ones AFC. That just be fantastic
(11:05):
for the league because we know the New York teams,
you can't trust them as big East Coast markets to
do anything, So why not get Baltimore and Washington. J.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Mack.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
When I was a kid, my favorite team was Washington
nineteen seventy two. George I cant even the whole team,
Fat Fisher, Chris Hanburger, Diyron Talbert, Larry Brown, Billy Kilmer.
It's my favorite team. And they were great, and they
had a big rivalry with the Cowboys, and weren't very
good for a while, and here comes Joe Gibbs and
they were great, right right. And so for you growing up,
you're younger than me, you probably remember the Joe Gibbs.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah. Unfortunately, I was living in northern Virginia at the time,
and I was not a Washington at the time Redskins fan.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I was a Jet Sky of course, keep true to
my New York. But hey, people often forget if you're
in your twenties. How great this franchise's history was eighties
and nineties. There was a time in it. There was
a time in the seventies. I remember them used to seventies.
In the eighties, they had like a thirty year waiting
list for season ticket.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
They would talk about that on TV all all the time,
the waiting list for tickets. But band ownership corrosive ownership.
It can sink even the greatest fans. So I just
as I watch Washington, it just brings back all these seventies,
eighties and some nineties stuff. How great this franchise was.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
That was a great game yesterday, and they'll be likely
a rematch in the first round of the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Within these two we shall see. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 6 (12:29):
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Speaker 6 (12:43):
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Speaker 1 (12:59):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
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(13:27):
we go, It's two hour two.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Zoh was great on a Monday because Matt Hasselbeck shares
his wisdom with us and Colin Wright Colin wrong. What
a fun weekend. I know all you college fans are
freaking out. Don't worry. Take a deep breath. I'll tell you.
I'll get to this later in the hour. The Cowboys
win over Baker Mayfield. I just the whole game. I
kept waiting for Tampa to win. I'm like, Tampa's better,
(13:50):
Tampa's gonna win. Cowboys made a couple of great plays
the interception, but I kind of feel like, did the
Buccaneers give away the playoffs? Because remember Atlanta beat him?
And now Atlanta's got Michael Pennix at quarterback, so they
look like a better version of themselves. Now they're tied
for first, but they get the tie breakers, so that
game means a lot it meant a lot to Tampa
(14:11):
and at LANDA. I don't think it meant that much
to Dallas. Just got him my worst draft pick. But
J Mack, it is a Monday. I was right on
some stuff and wrong on some stuff. So let's call
me out. Here we go where Colin was right, Sam Darnold,
I can't quit Sammy. I know. I know. For years
cow heard you don't know what you're talking about, and
I always said, I don't want to argue about the talent.
(14:33):
He was under coached at USC and he was under
coached in Carolina, New York. The kid has it. He's
a playmaker, he's got a big arm, he's tough, he's coachable.
Now can he be a little reckless? Yeah, yeah, I
think sometimes talented people can be a little reckless at
the position. But I could never quit Sammy and couldn't
be happier for where Colin was raw. I may have
(14:56):
to sell some of my Kyler Murray stock. They're officially
out of the playoffs and they've lost four or five,
and in that stretch he's got four t d's and
six picks. Listen, I always liked his talent. There's no
question that his lack of size hurts him in the pocket.
I don't know if he's a great leader. I think
he makes some really bad picks, especially on the move.
(15:18):
And often quarterbacks that are mobile make some of their
better throws on the move. He makes some of his
worst as a mobile quarterback. So I got to take
an l on Kyler Murray and that support where Colin
was right. Listen, I had the Washington Commanders as my
surprise pick. Guys, I think let's do Commanders on this story. Yeah.
(15:40):
I had the Washington Commanders as my dark horse playoff team,
and I said Dan Sneyder, the coaching staff and the
front office was so bad that literally changing everybody out
was actually the right move to make. So I had
the Commanders as a dark horse playoff team. I did
(16:02):
not know Jayden Daniels. I liked him. I did not
know he would be that good, but he is in
congratulations where Colin was wrong. Ohio State. Wow. I thought
Tennessee would keep it close. I thought this would be
a really good game. I watched Tennessee's defensive line all year,
and they got housed. That was twenty one to nothing
(16:24):
with three minutes left in the first quarter Will Howard,
who struggled on the easy stuff against Michigan, was on it.
I mean, Will Howard looked great, and so they finally
realized that Ohio State, Hey, we have NFL receivers in college.
Nobody can guard them. But it was the way they hit,
(16:47):
the way they defended. It was the pass rush. I
thought that was going to be a classic, an epic
won for the Ages, and it was over in eight minutes.
Where Colin was right, Chargers Harbaugh, I said, I know
they're a five win team. I'm gonna pick the Chargers
to make the playoffs because I think Jim Harbaugh is
(17:08):
a top five football coach college or pro in America.
So right now they're a ninety eight percent bet to
make the playoffs. I loved how they took advantage of
an old school rule to kick a field goal against
Denver right before half and they use that as inertia
for the rest of the game to take it over.
(17:30):
All Justin Herbert has ever needed is the right coach
and the culture culture to separate and be an elite quarterback.
We predicted it and it happened. Where Colin was right. Well,
I'll accept your apologies on brock Purty. He's okay, he's
fine if everything's right, but once again, when it's less
(17:53):
than perfect in big spots, that late game interception, in
four of his last five starts, asser ratings under one hundred. Listen,
I like him, he's solid, but I'm not paying a
quarterback anything close to fifty million if you only win
when everything is perfect. If you go to his last
(18:14):
twenty starts and yes they've had injuries, he's ten and
ten again. Quarterbacks are trucks they're pulling a team, or
tractors they're getting pulled. I think he's the latter, which
is why I'd pay him thirty two, thirty four, thirty
five million and nothing starting with a five where Colin
(18:35):
was wrong. No, I think I'm done with it. I
got one more right, and that is the NBA Cup
was down thirty five percent last week, and Lebron James
agreed with me, and Joe Missoula, the Celtics head coach,
agreed with me. The game has gotten increasingly monotonous. You
have NBA teams now shooting forty five threes a game.
(19:00):
There's no layering. It's just a three point shooting contest.
And again Lebron came out and criticized the league. Joe Missoula,
the Celtics coach, said, I don't watch a lot of
NBA beyond my own team. Nobody's picking on the NBA.
I do not want to see Wemby at seven to
four pulling up eleven times for threes. I don't want
(19:23):
to see the most dynamic athlete in the league at Edwards,
shooting ten to eleven threes. I don't care about analytics.
Math does not necessarily make great entertainment. Baseball made changes.
The game's gone up in ratings and attendance. The NBA
needs to make changes. The NBA Cup and the overall
(19:47):
ratings right now are headed in the wrong direction.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
With that, we bring in Matt Hasselbeck on a Monday.
Eighteen years in the league. So it's interesting when you
get to this point in the season. Detroit's a great example.
We know they're good, and I will give them credit.
That was a classic trap game. They could have gone
on the road, They could have played poorly they just
lost to Buffalo. Where are you this morning on Detroit
(20:23):
going forward dealing with all these injuries.
Speaker 7 (20:27):
Well, that'd be a big trap losing to Chicago Colling.
Speaker 8 (20:30):
I mean, that's hard to do right now, Listen, I'd
like Detroit.
Speaker 7 (20:34):
I like Detroit.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
You know, they've been they've kind of been the hunter.
Speaker 7 (20:38):
Now they're the hunted.
Speaker 8 (20:40):
And I think that you're seeing kind of the evolution
of Dan Campbell as a head coach. I think he's learning.
I think he's been pretty transparent about where he's made mistakes.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
I think it's one of the reasons guys like him.
Speaker 8 (20:52):
And this is kind of I think the big thing
I think of when I talk about Detroit, like we
think about their toughness and their creativity. I like that,
But you got to think now as a team like
you used to be thinking back in the day, Hey
we're playing a sixteen game season. Now Detroit's up there
with the big boys, and they got to be thinking
they're playing twenty something games because they're Super Bowl contenders now.
(21:13):
And so I think maybe that toughness, there's limits on
how tough you can be if you don't want to
end the season with a bunch of guys on ire
and so, like, I just go back to my first
year in the NFL. The Green Bay Packers were coming
off of two consecutive Super Bowls. That offseason wasn't at
all what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
Like, they were learning to play not in pads.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
There were guys like Reggie White and Brett Farv and
Antonio Freeman and Dorsey Levins and you know, Gilbert Brown.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
They learned how to.
Speaker 8 (21:42):
Play tough without always being in pads. And that might
be one of the lessons that Detroit needs to learn
going forward if they want to have sustained success.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So we talk about it on this show all the time.
There are great stories and then there are great teams.
And I thought Minnesota early in the year with Sam
Darnold now is a great story. Redemption for Donald he
had a turbulent career. He's a great kid. Kevin O'Connell,
the tall, Sean McVay, great story. Detroit's got better players. Philadelphia, Buffalo, Baltimore,
great story. You start going, you start winning all these
(22:16):
close games. I don't know, man, I'm I'm like, this
is it's like Kansas City winning close games. After a while,
that's who you are. I don't want to hear luck.
I look at Minnesota and I'm like, Detroit's beat up,
Philadelphia has got drama. I don't know, what do you
see with Minnesota. I think it's a pretty good team.
Speaker 8 (22:35):
See a few things with Minnesota. Number one, Brian Flores
is unbelievably underrated, Like I think everyone kind of gives
him his credit, like like oh yeah, like yeah, he's great, Like.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
No, no, no, he is legitimate.
Speaker 8 (22:46):
And then on the flip side, Sam Donald is playing outstanding.
Like that throw that he had kind of that cover
two hole shot. Here it is on the screen right now.
That throw was ridiculous. That's a game winning throws, a
jaw dropping throw, and really the receiver wasn't that open.
He made him open. I think Sam Donald's playing great football.
(23:07):
He's gonna get paid, whether in Minnesota or somewhere else
this year. He has definitely definitely earned it.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, I I don't want to pick on brock Purty,
but you start talking fifty million like that. To me,
A great example is burrow O Line's not good. Defense
isn't so he's always in a shootout. I think the
coach is fine. But I look at Burrow and I'm like, Okay,
that's what fifty five million looks like. And I look
(23:37):
at Purty and I'm like, okay, didn't have Christian McCaffrey. Well,
Donald doesn't have his left tackle. You gotta win when
it's not perfect. And I'm watching Purty and I'm sitting
there thinking, am I missing something here? Where's the wow?
What do you make of him?
Speaker 7 (23:53):
Well, I'll just say this, like I'm a huge Brock
Party fan. I think he's a really good player.
Speaker 8 (23:56):
But when I was going through contract negotiations, we never
really talked at dollars.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
We talked comps.
Speaker 8 (24:03):
And so like, whether it was you talking to your agent,
your agent talking to the team, you're usually talking comparables,
much like selling or buying a house, and so like,
I remember one year, you know, the team was trying
to say that, hey, you to us contract wise, you're
Chad Pennington, and I was saying trying to say, no,
I'm Steve McNair or like whoever the latest whoever the
latest contracts were. And then ultimately you probably slide in
(24:27):
there somewhere in between what you want the comp to
be and what they want the comp to be. So
it's not necessarily like they come into a negotiation and
they say, hey, it's got to start with a five.
Speaker 7 (24:37):
You know.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Usually they'll look around, they'll talk about what the other
options are this offseason. Ironically Sam Donald could be one
of the other options. Or you talk about what contracts
were done last year that you think are a good
comp for you who you are as a player, And
that's really where the negotiations happen. And that's a lot
of times where you see guys get offended, like wait,
(25:00):
what you think I'm the same player as that guy,
and so like sometimes.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Negotiations go south.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
You see it more often at wide receiver negotiations because
you know, I think they like they comped themselves to
the other guys more than quarterbacks to quarterbacks. I think
realize that there's a lot that goes into my success
or my failures. But that's how this negotiation will probably go,
at least how it'll start out.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I want you to explain to the audience one of
the first things from Mahomes that always struck me wasn't
just that he was talented. It was that I couldn't
tell if he was leading or trailing, it didn't affect him.
It didn't matter. I watched Jaden Daniels his fourth quarter
passer rating this year, his passer rating while trailing. It's
(25:45):
like in the Lamar in the Mahomes category. Take my
audience to how tough that is forget ever when you're young,
and how much tougher quarterback play is on final drives.
Because I look at Jayden Daniels, it just doesn't seem
like stuff rookies normally do.
Speaker 8 (26:06):
Yeah, I don't know if it's tougher. I actually sort
of always liked it. I think he likes it too.
There's a difference between liking it and being able to like,
actually go out and do it.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
At the moment of truth.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
Jayden Daniels is the most impressive quarterback in this rookie
class by far. I mean, what he has done this
season and what he did yesterday is just absolutely mind blowing.
Like he is everything you would hope to have in
a rookie quarterback and more both as a thrower, as
a runner, even as a leader. I don't think he
even understands like how difficult some of the things are
(26:37):
that he's doing. He just does it with a smile
in his face, and he repeats the same things the
kids say in like high school and in college, like
oh no, I just went the ball in my hands
at the end of the game. Like really, in that
moment on fourth and eleven, you want to be running
the ball against Philly's defense, really, Like.
Speaker 7 (26:53):
This isn't flag football.
Speaker 8 (26:54):
This is the Eagles defense, one of the most talented
defenses in the game. So, you know, I just think
that he has been remarkable this year. He has a
lot of fun to watch. I think Cliff Kingsbury deserves
a lot more credit than he's getting. And I think
that Jaden Daniels, I know a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
We talked about it. I've heard it.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Rookie quarterbacks never started a Super Bowl. It could happen
with this guy. It legitimately could. They were a real
contender this year, not next year.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
This year. And so like that game, it was the
game of the week. He had the throw of the week.
It was. It was incredible, all right.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Michael Pennix, Washington, Indiana. A lot of college starts, played
with a lot of NFL receivers. What'd you make his debut?
Speaker 8 (27:37):
Yeah, I thought it was good. I think it was
very encouraging. I mean it was against the Giants, so
you know that's what it is. They're they're not a
very good team. To put it nicely, the defense scored twice.
You know it was some of that. But I think
if you're looking, does this kid belong?
Speaker 7 (27:52):
Yeah, he belongs.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
He's got major zip on his passes, which is basically
the biggest critique that people have had on Kirk Cousins
this year off of injury. Penix has a wow arm.
He's a wow factor arm. And then when you watch
him in that Ryan Grubb offense in college dub he
had wow accuracy. So this is not your typical rookie.
He's a guy that started a bunch of games. He's
(28:14):
played a lot of football. He's very mature, and I
actually think it's going to be a great thing for
his career to have been there with Kirk Cousins. You
see Kirk kind of cheerleading him on now being unselfish.
So you marry up the weapons that they have offensively,
and then the potential that Pennix has. I think it's great.
My question would be, is this really what you want
to do? Kind of be developing, learning, on the fly
(28:37):
as you have a chance to win your division, and
I think that's the tough decision. I think that's why
Atlanta waited so long to put him in as the starter.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Let's go back to somebody you've been critical of. But
in fairness, despite the drama around him, Caleb's not throwing picks.
I know it's not everything, but usually if a quarterback's
overwhelmed a rookie, he makes a lot of mistakes. Will
Levis Bryce you, Okay, let's go now to what Caleb is.
They're not winning. Have you changed your opinion on what
(29:05):
you see with him?
Speaker 7 (29:08):
No, and listen, I listen.
Speaker 8 (29:10):
I know he's a young quarterback, and so I always
feel badly being critical at all of any young quarterback
because you know, if someone looked at me when I
was a rookie, it would have been a disaster. Okay,
but this is a very strong rookie class of quarterbacks,
and I just think that like, Caleb is the one
guy to me that I don't see the things that
I believe are really important, that I believe matter for
(29:33):
sustained success for a long career.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
I haven't seen that so much.
Speaker 8 (29:37):
So yeah, it is no interceptions like great, that's awesome,
but like you also have to learn to be an
anticipator as a pastor. Jayden Daniels do such an amazing job.
He's a wait and see thrower. You can't take sacks
that hurts your team. You're in field goal range. Now
you take an unnecessary sack. Now we're punting like you
get got to learn to throw the ball away. You
(29:59):
got to know where hots are. You got to move
protection so that you know you're not hurting your team.
Body language is a huge thing to me, don't I
don't love what I see out of him. You know, so,
are there wow plays? Are there splash plays? Yeah, that's awesome.
That's why you were drafted so high. But if you're
going to compare him, and if I was just gonna
like nameless faces, I don't see the emblem on the helmet,
(30:20):
I don't see the name on the jersey. I don't
know who was picked first, second, third, whatever. I'm putting
all those other rookie quarterbacks, Jaden Daniels, Drake may Bo Nix.
In a week, I might put Panix up there above Caleb.
That's just the film is the film, and my opinion
is my opinion, but we'll see if I'm being real,
(30:41):
that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
No, No, I love it, and you're more right than
I am on that stuff. So finally, I feel like
I've been defending Lamar Jackson for six years that he's
just And I will say this, No, I mean Elway
felt perfect right like you had size, he had arm running.
He went to Stanford. Some players are developing as pros,
(31:03):
and I think Lamar's become a very nice They finally
got him a number one in Za Flowers. They always
had a run game. I don't like to root, but
I want to see Lamar succeed in the postseason. And
I know he got tight last year. Where are I
thought he was so good against Pittsburgh. Where are you
now on Lamar Baltimore today? Do you feel good or
(31:26):
is the anxiety creeping up for playoff Lamar for you?
Speaker 7 (31:30):
No, No, I'm buying. I'm buying Baltimore. I love Lamar.
Speaker 8 (31:33):
I think Lamar's in some weird way underrated because he's
an MVP winner. I mean's he's probably the guy that
is got the best chance to unseat Josh Allen as
the MVP this year. I think Baltimore's exactly where they
need to be in terms of winning this division. I
thought he was outstanding against Pittsburgh. I thought he was
the difference maker. And that was a big matchup, you know,
(31:55):
Lamar and the Ravens or Russell and the Steelers. It
was clear it was Lamar and the Ravens. So I
think you're going to see more of that. I think
he's an outstanding player. And you know when you talk
about the type you know, the quarterbacks that could go
toe to toe with Josh Allen, toe to toe with Mahome, Like,
who's that difference maker that makes everybody around him better?
Who's the guy that intimidates defensive coordinators? Lamar Jackson's got
(32:18):
to be at the top of that list.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well, I gotta ask you one more thing. When Detroit
did the trick play, I thought Ben Johnson the OC
was showing off to the Chicago brass. I'm like, why
would you run that play? Am I reaching there is
that possible?
Speaker 8 (32:32):
No, you're one hundred percent right about that, And not
only just the game like this, but you know, coordinators
and play callers do that on like a nationally televised
game Monday night football, Sunday Night football.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
They save it.
Speaker 8 (32:43):
The funny thing is is most guys don't have the courage,
they don't have the stones to.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
Call it in that game.
Speaker 8 (32:49):
You put a game, you put you put a trick
play in for the Bears, you end up calling it
like seven weeks later. You know, I think, like to
the Philly Special against New England. Though they probably didn't
put it in for New England. They probably were practicing
it like for eleven weeks and then they were like,
you know, I think it was Foles and Doug Peterson.
Speaker 7 (33:05):
They're like, you want to just run Philly Special. We've
been running and practicing a whole season. It's ready to roll,
you know, so now listen.
Speaker 8 (33:12):
I think Ben Johnson's been one of the most impressive
play callers and kind of creative guys.
Speaker 7 (33:18):
But yeah, that was that was a little.
Speaker 8 (33:20):
Bit of a show off, a little bit of an audition,
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Great scene is always man you Alwa's money, love your stuff,
Matt Hasselback.
Speaker 7 (33:27):
Thanks Bud, thank you calling yeah it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Peter Schreger also noted that on Twitter, I'm watching it
and as I watched the play, I'm like, first of all,
we all like new stuff. We love trick plays. So
I'm like, that's a weird time to call that play
against a division team you're routing because you're going to
face those guys two times a year, right, Like, you
don't want to rub it in. See you know, if
you're the Ravens and you're beating the Steelers, you may
(33:53):
want to hold back on rubbing it in with a
trick play. Now. I know Detroit's better than Chicago, but
I thought that's kind of a weird way. And then
all all of a sudden, it's like, oh yeah, yeah,
a little show off time at audition for Ben Johnson.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Did you see people saying why don't you save that
for a playoff game?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
My instant response is the smart, good teams they're not
falling for that crap. The Bears are a bad team.
Even Flus is not there.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
All the guys are yelling fumble.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
If you heard the fumble fumble and then nobody's paying attention,
I would say there's no chance Ben Johnson goes to Chicago.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
None.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Why is he going there? Well, I mean, if you're
a coordinator and somebody triples your pay and it's a beautiful.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
City Washington offered a triples and he said no, like
on the private jet over there, like.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
He didn't he didn't quite know what Jaden Daniels would be. Yeah,
I mean we both like Jayden Daniels. We didn't think
he'd be this.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
No, I like Drake May Moore and Jayden's been way better.
But Drake May's coming on strong.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Watch him May. But I still can't believe that game.
I mean, New England jumped right on top.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
Of Buffalo Sleepy.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Yeah, Josh Allen worse game since that Texans disaster. You
really think Ben Johnson's leaving Detroit for Chicago, he would
do that.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
I just think Chicago Bears in the division. It's a
blue blood franchise. They got some good players. This is
not a bad roster. No, it's a talented It's a
little bit like the Chargers job, where you've got pieces.
And I think Herbert was more proven than Caleb. Caleb's
still in the ascension stage, whereas everybody kind of knew
(35:31):
Herbert was really good. But it's you know, they got
pass rushers. They had like three hundred and fifty yards offense. Again,
now it was they were playing catch up.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
The whole time.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
But that's they got dudes. Chicago's got dudes.
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to The Herd Podcast. Oh we got a Monday. What
(00:23):
a weekend of football started Friday. It'll be done tonight
with the Packers hammer in the Saints. That's gonna happen
live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may
be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making
us part of your day. Jamac one hour from now,
where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. Okay, the
college football fans are all freaking out, don't overreact. We'll
get to that in about a half hour. It's all good.
(00:46):
Next week's neutral sites games are gonna be great. But
you know, years ago, as I told New York Zach
Wilson and Daniel Jones were not gonna work. Before that,
I told him Sam Darnold was gonna work. And sometimes
j Mackett takes a while to be right. So there's
(01:07):
an old saying and it's one of my favorites. Outline
your life in pencil, not pen Things change, opportunities arise,
don't be rigid, keep your eyes open. And I know
Sam Darnold was supposed to be like a one year thing,
(01:27):
but he is so good with Justin Jefferson, he is
so clutch in the fourth quarter. This is no longer
just a good story. This is an excellent team and
he is an excellent quarterback. This isn't the twenty seven Vikings.
Remember that pre Kirk Cousins case Keenum thirteen wins, Case
had twenty two touchdown Sam's got thirty two in counting,
(01:49):
and he's eight and one in one score games. He
has just been so good. And quarterbacks are either trucks
where they're pulling the team or they're trailers where they're
being pulled. Sam's a truck. He's pulling this team. They
lost their excellent left tackle, one of the best in
(02:11):
the game, maybe the best in the game. They lost him.
Sam's like we good eight to no without him. That
fourth quarter gamining drive encapsulates all of Sam Darnold, the
athletic ability, the toughness, making big throws in big moments.
There is no denying he is helping pull this team.
I'm not denying the receiving course good. Kevin O'Connell's an
(02:33):
amazing They call him the Taal Sean McVay. But this
is not the case keenum team. This is not just
a guy that comes in and we all kind of
fall in love with the story. Vegas had these guys
at six wins. That's what Vegas had him at six wins.
This is not a great roster Detroit when healthy. Great roster, Philadelphia,
(02:53):
great roster, Buffalo, really really good roster. Baltimore excellent roster.
This fusster's is pretty good. But Darnold's toughness, his coach ability,
his playmaking, that last drive man, that's something else. And
again lost their left tackle. Wasn't perfect. This team could
(03:15):
still be the number one seed. Number one seed. And
I know you drafted JJ McCarthy, I get it, And
I know you brought in Daniel Jones. Understood, But to me,
you got a franchise tagament minimum. You can't let him go.
What if he ends up somewhere along the way and
comes back to beat you, And maybe this is the
(03:35):
best Sam could ever be. And I'm not going to
deny that. Justin Jefferson, there's one in the league. And
Kevin O'Connell is an excellent young coach, and Minnesota's always
been a pretty well run franchise. I'm not denying that,
But outline your life in pencil. Plans, change opportunities, arise.
(03:56):
Employees are better than you think. And I'm not saying
it's jess Sam. This offense got real players, but they
lost their left tackle. I've seen other quarterbacks rhymes with
Brock Purty lose a left tackle or a running back
and shrieked, not slinging Sammy Darnald. Another win. Still, a
(04:19):
number one set is viable, and here's the coach after.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
There wasn't really one guy. And I know I'm not
speaking for myself. I thought we were gonna go down
and we're gonna get a touchdown. And I think the
level of confidence that that group has in their quarterback
and the level of confidence the quarterback has in the
ten guys in the huddle is significant, and that's how
you're able to go do that in that moment on
the road at this place, you know you can't hear
yourself think it's pretty fantastic, you know, performance in that
(04:46):
moment by you know, not just our quarterback, but all
eleven of those guys out there.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Slinging Sammy Darnald. It took a while, but he's special.
So I don't want to overreact. You know, mondays off
a crazy football weekend, it becomes overreaction Monday. I don't
want to overreact to the Eagles losing to Washington. Okay,
Jalen Hurts very early, got a concussion. It's not the
(05:12):
same team. It's a great roster, but it is a
quarterback league, and I'm not going to overreact because Jaden
Daniels as a rookie through five touchdown passes. The bigger
story is why the NFL is king because you get
the right coach and the right rookie quarterback. You draft
the right guy and you can go from an NFL
(05:32):
embarrassment for over a decade to the playoffs in three months.
And that's what you're seeing. Jaden Daniels does not have
a great roster. He's got one big time weapon. But
you can see some Lamar Jackson, you can see the pois.
You could see ten to fifteen years of playoffs. I
mean I grew up and they had a different name,
but this was a great franchise. I've said before that
(05:55):
the Washington football franchise reminds me of the Golden State Warriors.
I grew up up in the seventies and Washington the
football team and Golden State the basketball team had legendary
players and you could argue they have the best fan bases.
But mismanagement or bad ownership and the Warriors just sort
of regress into irrelevant even on the West Coast. And
(06:15):
then it all turns around with Steph Curry in Washington,
the George Allen Washington team nineteen seventy two Super Bowl,
this Joe Gibbs, I mean, this was for a long time.
This was tough and physical in the Hogs and then
Dan Snyder and as we always say on this show, ownership,
(06:35):
bad teams all have one thing in common, and it's
not a bad coach and it's not a bad quarterback. Cincinnati,
I think has a good coach and a great quarterback.
It's usually upstairs, but all you need is the right
coach and the right quarterback. And finally they got a
bad owner out and a great owner in and you're
looking at playoffs. That final drive, what was great about that?
(06:57):
Not just the three fourth quarter touchdown by Jaden Daniels.
He threw a pick on the previous drive, so what unfazed?
Cut it loose, didn't care very andrew luck, very short memory.
And this rookie quarterback class, by the way, we may
have five for five. I'll watch Panix this weekend. That
dude's good. So obviously the Jalen Hurts concussion can change
(07:20):
the outcome. But here's what's amazing about this kid. And
I've said this before, the difference between the halves and
the have nots at quarterbacks. When are you good? Okay,
when are you good? Do you lose a left tackle?
Sam Darnold? You go eight? No, it can't just be
when everything's great. When are you good? This kid has
(07:41):
a one to six passer rating while trailing. That's like
goat stuff. Okay, that's Mahomes. Early Mahomes was better trailing.
You could never tell if Mahomes was leading or trailing.
You could never tell a lot of quarterbacks in this
league with protection they're leading. They all look great. Thrown
(08:01):
on second and two, Jayden Daniels has a good old line.
It's better. They got Cliff Kingsbury and the offensive staff
have done nice job. It's a better O line top
seven or eight. It's not Detroit, it's not Philly, it's
probably not Atlanta, but it's good. But he's got a
great passer rating trailing and one hundred and fifteen passer
rating in the fourth quarter. That is unheard of for
(08:24):
a rookie that those numbers. This is not September, We're
not early October. We're now late December. Like that's who
the kid is. And this is probably the worst Rostery
plays with, at least while he's on his rookie contract.
Right once they pay him the big money, you got
to make concessions. But for the next two to three
(08:45):
years he'd not make any money. So this roster's only
going to get better. This kid is nails fourth quarter
trailing And I know, I know Jalen Hurts was out,
But if you're doing things now in late December in
Chile weather against the number one defense in the league
and driving down that last drive was art, baby, that's
(09:05):
what the great ones look like. That is goat stuff.
And we said we bought with everybody on their show
loved him. J Mack loved him. I loved him coming
out of college. But he is better than I thought
early and here he is after.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I always believe that it was going the game no
matter what, the game's never overtook, oklock you through. I
think you live for these type of moments. You know,
you got those guys that came in on the win
streak they were on, they were hot, and they're a
very good team, rightfully, so good offense, good defense, all around,
well prepared team. And you want to go out there
see where you match and you match up against those
(09:39):
type of guys.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Gotta tell you sometimes I feel so lucky to do
this for a living. I'm watching all these young quarterbacks.
Panics looks poised, Jaden is money. Caleb hasn't thrown a
pick in forever since like Halloween, bo Nicks. I think
he and Sean Payton work. I don't know about JJ McCarthy,
but Drake May yesterday, I'm like, oh, oh, dude, can play.
(10:02):
I mean, I think we did a five for five.
I mean Pennix even when Pennix was throwing the ball
away yesterday, he was good. But none of them have
been consistently as good trailing and in the fourth quarter
as Jaden Daniels. This is exciting time. I mean for
(10:22):
a Washington franchise. I'm telling you it was the Warriors
for a long time. They were great in the seventies.
Talk about the eighties and all of a sudden you're like,
post Joe Gibbs, It's like, Yeah, what's going on here?
Fad ownership. I'd love to see Washington fifteen year run
with this kid. Can you imagine having Lamar Jackson in
(10:44):
the Ravens and right around the corner having Jaden Daniels
basically kind of like the duplicate. He's a little better
in the pocket than early Lamar, maybe not as electric
running quite as Lamar. What a rival this could be,
even though one's NFC ones AFC. That just be fantastic
(11:05):
for the league because we know the New York teams,
you can't trust them as big East Coast markets to
do anything, So why not get Baltimore and Washington. J.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Mack.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
When I was a kid, my favorite team was Washington
nineteen seventy two. George I cant even the whole team,
Fat Fisher, Chris Hanburger, Diyron Talbert, Larry Brown, Billy Kilmer.
It's my favorite team. And they were great, and they
had a big rivalry with the Cowboys, and weren't very
good for a while, and here comes Joe Gibbs and
they were great, right right. And so for you growing up,
you're younger than me, you probably remember the Joe Gibbs.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah. Unfortunately, I was living in northern Virginia at the time,
and I was not a Washington at the time Redskins fan.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I was a Jet Sky of course, keep true to
my New York. But hey, people often forget if you're
in your twenties. How great this franchise's history was eighties
and nineties. There was a time in it. There was
a time in the seventies. I remember them used to seventies.
In the eighties, they had like a thirty year waiting
list for season ticket.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
They would talk about that on TV all all the time,
the waiting list for tickets. But band ownership corrosive ownership.
It can sink even the greatest fans. So I just
as I watch Washington, it just brings back all these seventies,
eighties and some nineties stuff. How great this franchise was.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
That was a great game yesterday, and they'll be likely
a rematch in the first round of the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Within these two we shall see. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 6 (12:29):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
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Speaker 1 (12:41):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
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Speaker 1 (12:59):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
We like to get you involved, to take your phone calls,
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And if you miss any of the live show, just
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of course on social media that's Cavino and Rich. Here
(13:27):
we go, It's two hour two.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Zoh was great on a Monday because Matt Hasselbeck shares
his wisdom with us and Colin Wright Colin wrong. What
a fun weekend. I know all you college fans are
freaking out. Don't worry. Take a deep breath. I'll tell you.
I'll get to this later in the hour. The Cowboys
win over Baker Mayfield. I just the whole game. I
kept waiting for Tampa to win. I'm like, Tampa's better,
(13:50):
Tampa's gonna win. Cowboys made a couple of great plays
the interception, but I kind of feel like, did the
Buccaneers give away the playoffs? Because remember Atlanta beat him?
And now Atlanta's got Michael Pennix at quarterback, so they
look like a better version of themselves. Now they're tied
for first, but they get the tie breakers, so that
game means a lot it meant a lot to Tampa
(14:11):
and at LANDA. I don't think it meant that much
to Dallas. Just got him my worst draft pick. But
J Mack, it is a Monday. I was right on
some stuff and wrong on some stuff. So let's call
me out. Here we go where Colin was right, Sam Darnold,
I can't quit Sammy. I know. I know. For years
cow heard you don't know what you're talking about, and
I always said, I don't want to argue about the talent.
(14:33):
He was under coached at USC and he was under
coached in Carolina, New York. The kid has it. He's
a playmaker, he's got a big arm, he's tough, he's coachable.
Now can he be a little reckless? Yeah, yeah, I
think sometimes talented people can be a little reckless at
the position. But I could never quit Sammy and couldn't
be happier for where Colin was raw. I may have
(14:56):
to sell some of my Kyler Murray stock. They're officially
out of the playoffs and they've lost four or five,
and in that stretch he's got four t d's and
six picks. Listen, I always liked his talent. There's no
question that his lack of size hurts him in the pocket.
I don't know if he's a great leader. I think
he makes some really bad picks, especially on the move.
(15:18):
And often quarterbacks that are mobile make some of their
better throws on the move. He makes some of his
worst as a mobile quarterback. So I got to take
an l on Kyler Murray and that support where Colin
was right. Listen, I had the Washington Commanders as my
surprise pick. Guys, I think let's do Commanders on this story. Yeah.
(15:40):
I had the Washington Commanders as my dark horse playoff team,
and I said Dan Sneyder, the coaching staff and the
front office was so bad that literally changing everybody out
was actually the right move to make. So I had
the Commanders as a dark horse playoff team. I did
(16:02):
not know Jayden Daniels. I liked him. I did not
know he would be that good, but he is in
congratulations where Colin was wrong. Ohio State. Wow. I thought
Tennessee would keep it close. I thought this would be
a really good game. I watched Tennessee's defensive line all year,
and they got housed. That was twenty one to nothing
(16:24):
with three minutes left in the first quarter Will Howard,
who struggled on the easy stuff against Michigan, was on it.
I mean, Will Howard looked great, and so they finally
realized that Ohio State, Hey, we have NFL receivers in college.
Nobody can guard them. But it was the way they hit,
(16:47):
the way they defended. It was the pass rush. I
thought that was going to be a classic, an epic
won for the Ages, and it was over in eight minutes.
Where Colin was right, Chargers Harbaugh, I said, I know
they're a five win team. I'm gonna pick the Chargers
to make the playoffs because I think Jim Harbaugh is
(17:08):
a top five football coach college or pro in America.
So right now they're a ninety eight percent bet to
make the playoffs. I loved how they took advantage of
an old school rule to kick a field goal against
Denver right before half and they use that as inertia
for the rest of the game to take it over.
(17:30):
All Justin Herbert has ever needed is the right coach
and the culture culture to separate and be an elite quarterback.
We predicted it and it happened. Where Colin was right. Well,
I'll accept your apologies on brock Purty. He's okay, he's
fine if everything's right, but once again, when it's less
(17:53):
than perfect in big spots, that late game interception, in
four of his last five starts, asser ratings under one hundred. Listen,
I like him, he's solid, but I'm not paying a
quarterback anything close to fifty million if you only win
when everything is perfect. If you go to his last
(18:14):
twenty starts and yes they've had injuries, he's ten and
ten again. Quarterbacks are trucks they're pulling a team, or
tractors they're getting pulled. I think he's the latter, which
is why I'd pay him thirty two, thirty four, thirty
five million and nothing starting with a five where Colin
(18:35):
was wrong. No, I think I'm done with it. I
got one more right, and that is the NBA Cup
was down thirty five percent last week, and Lebron James
agreed with me, and Joe Missoula, the Celtics head coach,
agreed with me. The game has gotten increasingly monotonous. You
have NBA teams now shooting forty five threes a game.
(19:00):
There's no layering. It's just a three point shooting contest.
And again Lebron came out and criticized the league. Joe Missoula,
the Celtics coach, said, I don't watch a lot of
NBA beyond my own team. Nobody's picking on the NBA.
I do not want to see Wemby at seven to
four pulling up eleven times for threes. I don't want
(19:23):
to see the most dynamic athlete in the league at Edwards,
shooting ten to eleven threes. I don't care about analytics.
Math does not necessarily make great entertainment. Baseball made changes.
The game's gone up in ratings and attendance. The NBA
needs to make changes. The NBA Cup and the overall
(19:47):
ratings right now are headed in the wrong direction.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
With that, we bring in Matt Hasselbeck on a Monday.
Eighteen years in the league. So it's interesting when you
get to this point in the season. Detroit's a great example.
We know they're good, and I will give them credit.
That was a classic trap game. They could have gone
on the road, They could have played poorly they just
lost to Buffalo. Where are you this morning on Detroit
(20:23):
going forward dealing with all these injuries.
Speaker 7 (20:27):
Well, that'd be a big trap losing to Chicago Colling.
Speaker 8 (20:30):
I mean, that's hard to do right now, Listen, I'd
like Detroit.
Speaker 7 (20:34):
I like Detroit.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
You know, they've been they've kind of been the hunter.
Speaker 7 (20:38):
Now they're the hunted.
Speaker 8 (20:40):
And I think that you're seeing kind of the evolution
of Dan Campbell as a head coach. I think he's learning.
I think he's been pretty transparent about where he's made mistakes.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
I think it's one of the reasons guys like him.
Speaker 8 (20:52):
And this is kind of I think the big thing
I think of when I talk about Detroit, like we
think about their toughness and their creativity. I like that,
But you got to think now as a team like
you used to be thinking back in the day, Hey
we're playing a sixteen game season. Now Detroit's up there
with the big boys, and they got to be thinking
they're playing twenty something games because they're Super Bowl contenders now.
(21:13):
And so I think maybe that toughness, there's limits on
how tough you can be if you don't want to
end the season with a bunch of guys on ire
and so, like, I just go back to my first
year in the NFL. The Green Bay Packers were coming
off of two consecutive Super Bowls. That offseason wasn't at
all what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
Like, they were learning to play not in pads.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
There were guys like Reggie White and Brett Farv and
Antonio Freeman and Dorsey Levins and you know, Gilbert Brown.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
They learned how to.
Speaker 8 (21:42):
Play tough without always being in pads. And that might
be one of the lessons that Detroit needs to learn
going forward if they want to have sustained success.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So we talk about it on this show all the time.
There are great stories and then there are great teams.
And I thought Minnesota early in the year with Sam
Darnold now is a great story. Redemption for Donald he
had a turbulent career. He's a great kid. Kevin O'Connell,
the tall, Sean McVay, great story. Detroit's got better players. Philadelphia, Buffalo, Baltimore,
great story. You start going, you start winning all these
(22:16):
close games. I don't know, man, I'm I'm like, this
is it's like Kansas City winning close games. After a while,
that's who you are. I don't want to hear luck.
I look at Minnesota and I'm like, Detroit's beat up,
Philadelphia has got drama. I don't know, what do you
see with Minnesota. I think it's a pretty good team.
Speaker 8 (22:35):
See a few things with Minnesota. Number one, Brian Flores
is unbelievably underrated, Like I think everyone kind of gives
him his credit, like like oh yeah, like yeah, he's great, Like.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
No, no, no, he is legitimate.
Speaker 8 (22:46):
And then on the flip side, Sam Donald is playing outstanding.
Like that throw that he had kind of that cover
two hole shot. Here it is on the screen right now.
That throw was ridiculous. That's a game winning throws, a
jaw dropping throw, and really the receiver wasn't that open.
He made him open. I think Sam Donald's playing great football.
(23:07):
He's gonna get paid, whether in Minnesota or somewhere else
this year. He has definitely definitely earned it.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, I I don't want to pick on brock Purty,
but you start talking fifty million like that. To me,
A great example is burrow O Line's not good. Defense
isn't so he's always in a shootout. I think the
coach is fine. But I look at Burrow and I'm like, Okay,
that's what fifty five million looks like. And I look
(23:37):
at Purty and I'm like, okay, didn't have Christian McCaffrey. Well,
Donald doesn't have his left tackle. You gotta win when
it's not perfect. And I'm watching Purty and I'm sitting
there thinking, am I missing something here? Where's the wow?
What do you make of him?
Speaker 7 (23:53):
Well, I'll just say this, like I'm a huge Brock
Party fan. I think he's a really good player.
Speaker 8 (23:56):
But when I was going through contract negotiations, we never
really talked at dollars.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
We talked comps.
Speaker 8 (24:03):
And so like, whether it was you talking to your agent,
your agent talking to the team, you're usually talking comparables,
much like selling or buying a house, and so like,
I remember one year, you know, the team was trying
to say that, hey, you to us contract wise, you're
Chad Pennington, and I was saying trying to say, no,
I'm Steve McNair or like whoever the latest whoever the
latest contracts were. And then ultimately you probably slide in
(24:27):
there somewhere in between what you want the comp to
be and what they want the comp to be. So
it's not necessarily like they come into a negotiation and
they say, hey, it's got to start with a five.
Speaker 7 (24:37):
You know.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Usually they'll look around, they'll talk about what the other
options are this offseason. Ironically Sam Donald could be one
of the other options. Or you talk about what contracts
were done last year that you think are a good
comp for you who you are as a player, And
that's really where the negotiations happen. And that's a lot
of times where you see guys get offended, like wait,
(25:00):
what you think I'm the same player as that guy,
and so like sometimes.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Negotiations go south.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
You see it more often at wide receiver negotiations because
you know, I think they like they comped themselves to
the other guys more than quarterbacks to quarterbacks. I think
realize that there's a lot that goes into my success
or my failures. But that's how this negotiation will probably go,
at least how it'll start out.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I want you to explain to the audience one of
the first things from Mahomes that always struck me wasn't
just that he was talented. It was that I couldn't
tell if he was leading or trailing, it didn't affect him.
It didn't matter. I watched Jaden Daniels his fourth quarter
passer rating this year, his passer rating while trailing. It's
(25:45):
like in the Lamar in the Mahomes category. Take my
audience to how tough that is forget ever when you're young,
and how much tougher quarterback play is on final drives.
Because I look at Jayden Daniels, it just doesn't seem
like stuff rookies normally do.
Speaker 8 (26:06):
Yeah, I don't know if it's tougher. I actually sort
of always liked it. I think he likes it too.
There's a difference between liking it and being able to like,
actually go out and do it.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
At the moment of truth.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
Jayden Daniels is the most impressive quarterback in this rookie
class by far. I mean, what he has done this
season and what he did yesterday is just absolutely mind blowing.
Like he is everything you would hope to have in
a rookie quarterback and more both as a thrower, as
a runner, even as a leader. I don't think he
even understands like how difficult some of the things are
(26:37):
that he's doing. He just does it with a smile
in his face, and he repeats the same things the
kids say in like high school and in college, like
oh no, I just went the ball in my hands
at the end of the game. Like really, in that
moment on fourth and eleven, you want to be running
the ball against Philly's defense, really, Like.
Speaker 7 (26:53):
This isn't flag football.
Speaker 8 (26:54):
This is the Eagles defense, one of the most talented
defenses in the game. So, you know, I just think
that he has been remarkable this year. He has a
lot of fun to watch. I think Cliff Kingsbury deserves
a lot more credit than he's getting. And I think
that Jaden Daniels, I know a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
We talked about it. I've heard it.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Rookie quarterbacks never started a Super Bowl. It could happen
with this guy. It legitimately could. They were a real
contender this year, not next year.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
This year. And so like that game, it was the
game of the week. He had the throw of the week.
It was. It was incredible, all right.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Michael Pennix, Washington, Indiana. A lot of college starts, played
with a lot of NFL receivers. What'd you make his debut?
Speaker 8 (27:37):
Yeah, I thought it was good. I think it was
very encouraging. I mean it was against the Giants, so
you know that's what it is. They're they're not a
very good team. To put it nicely, the defense scored twice.
You know it was some of that. But I think
if you're looking, does this kid belong?
Speaker 7 (27:52):
Yeah, he belongs.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
He's got major zip on his passes, which is basically
the biggest critique that people have had on Kirk Cousins
this year off of injury. Penix has a wow arm.
He's a wow factor arm. And then when you watch
him in that Ryan Grubb offense in college dub he
had wow accuracy. So this is not your typical rookie.
He's a guy that started a bunch of games. He's
(28:14):
played a lot of football. He's very mature, and I
actually think it's going to be a great thing for
his career to have been there with Kirk Cousins. You
see Kirk kind of cheerleading him on now being unselfish.
So you marry up the weapons that they have offensively,
and then the potential that Pennix has. I think it's great.
My question would be, is this really what you want
to do? Kind of be developing, learning, on the fly
(28:37):
as you have a chance to win your division, and
I think that's the tough decision. I think that's why
Atlanta waited so long to put him in as the starter.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Let's go back to somebody you've been critical of. But
in fairness, despite the drama around him, Caleb's not throwing picks.
I know it's not everything, but usually if a quarterback's
overwhelmed a rookie, he makes a lot of mistakes. Will
Levis Bryce you, Okay, let's go now to what Caleb is.
They're not winning. Have you changed your opinion on what
(29:05):
you see with him?
Speaker 7 (29:08):
No, and listen, I listen.
Speaker 8 (29:10):
I know he's a young quarterback, and so I always
feel badly being critical at all of any young quarterback
because you know, if someone looked at me when I
was a rookie, it would have been a disaster. Okay,
but this is a very strong rookie class of quarterbacks,
and I just think that like, Caleb is the one
guy to me that I don't see the things that
I believe are really important, that I believe matter for
(29:33):
sustained success for a long career.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
I haven't seen that so much.
Speaker 8 (29:37):
So yeah, it is no interceptions like great, that's awesome,
but like you also have to learn to be an
anticipator as a pastor. Jayden Daniels do such an amazing job.
He's a wait and see thrower. You can't take sacks
that hurts your team. You're in field goal range. Now
you take an unnecessary sack. Now we're punting like you
get got to learn to throw the ball away. You
(29:59):
got to know where hots are. You got to move
protection so that you know you're not hurting your team.
Body language is a huge thing to me, don't I
don't love what I see out of him. You know, so,
are there wow plays? Are there splash plays? Yeah, that's awesome.
That's why you were drafted so high. But if you're
going to compare him, and if I was just gonna
like nameless faces, I don't see the emblem on the helmet,
(30:20):
I don't see the name on the jersey. I don't
know who was picked first, second, third, whatever. I'm putting
all those other rookie quarterbacks, Jaden Daniels, Drake may Bo Nix.
In a week, I might put Panix up there above Caleb.
That's just the film is the film, and my opinion
is my opinion, but we'll see if I'm being real,
(30:41):
that's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
No, No, I love it, and you're more right than
I am on that stuff. So finally, I feel like
I've been defending Lamar Jackson for six years that he's
just And I will say this, No, I mean Elway
felt perfect right like you had size, he had arm running.
He went to Stanford. Some players are developing as pros,
(31:03):
and I think Lamar's become a very nice They finally
got him a number one in Za Flowers. They always
had a run game. I don't like to root, but
I want to see Lamar succeed in the postseason. And
I know he got tight last year. Where are I
thought he was so good against Pittsburgh. Where are you
now on Lamar Baltimore today? Do you feel good or
(31:26):
is the anxiety creeping up for playoff Lamar for you?
Speaker 7 (31:30):
No, No, I'm buying. I'm buying Baltimore. I love Lamar.
Speaker 8 (31:33):
I think Lamar's in some weird way underrated because he's
an MVP winner. I mean's he's probably the guy that
is got the best chance to unseat Josh Allen as
the MVP this year. I think Baltimore's exactly where they
need to be in terms of winning this division. I
thought he was outstanding against Pittsburgh. I thought he was
the difference maker. And that was a big matchup, you know,
(31:55):
Lamar and the Ravens or Russell and the Steelers. It
was clear it was Lamar and the Ravens. So I
think you're going to see more of that. I think
he's an outstanding player. And you know when you talk
about the type you know, the quarterbacks that could go
toe to toe with Josh Allen, toe to toe with Mahome, Like,
who's that difference maker that makes everybody around him better?
Who's the guy that intimidates defensive coordinators? Lamar Jackson's got
(32:18):
to be at the top of that list.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well, I gotta ask you one more thing. When Detroit
did the trick play, I thought Ben Johnson the OC
was showing off to the Chicago brass. I'm like, why
would you run that play? Am I reaching there is
that possible?
Speaker 8 (32:32):
No, you're one hundred percent right about that, And not
only just the game like this, but you know, coordinators
and play callers do that on like a nationally televised
game Monday night football, Sunday Night football.
Speaker 7 (32:42):
They save it.
Speaker 8 (32:43):
The funny thing is is most guys don't have the courage,
they don't have the stones to.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
Call it in that game.
Speaker 8 (32:49):
You put a game, you put you put a trick
play in for the Bears, you end up calling it
like seven weeks later. You know, I think, like to
the Philly Special against New England. Though they probably didn't
put it in for New England. They probably were practicing
it like for eleven weeks and then they were like,
you know, I think it was Foles and Doug Peterson.
Speaker 7 (33:05):
They're like, you want to just run Philly Special. We've
been running and practicing a whole season. It's ready to roll,
you know, so now listen.
Speaker 8 (33:12):
I think Ben Johnson's been one of the most impressive
play callers and kind of creative guys.
Speaker 7 (33:18):
But yeah, that was that was a little.
Speaker 8 (33:20):
Bit of a show off, a little bit of an audition,
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Great scene is always man you Alwa's money, love your stuff,
Matt Hasselback.
Speaker 7 (33:27):
Thanks Bud, thank you calling yeah it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Peter Schreger also noted that on Twitter, I'm watching it
and as I watched the play, I'm like, first of all,
we all like new stuff. We love trick plays. So
I'm like, that's a weird time to call that play
against a division team you're routing because you're going to
face those guys two times a year, right, Like, you
don't want to rub it in. See you know, if
you're the Ravens and you're beating the Steelers, you may
(33:53):
want to hold back on rubbing it in with a
trick play. Now. I know Detroit's better than Chicago, but
I thought that's kind of a weird way. And then
all all of a sudden, it's like, oh yeah, yeah,
a little show off time at audition for Ben Johnson.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Did you see people saying why don't you save that
for a playoff game?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
My instant response is the smart, good teams they're not
falling for that crap. The Bears are a bad team.
Even Flus is not there.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
All the guys are yelling fumble.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
If you heard the fumble fumble and then nobody's paying attention,
I would say there's no chance Ben Johnson goes to Chicago.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
None.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Why is he going there? Well, I mean, if you're
a coordinator and somebody triples your pay and it's a beautiful.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
City Washington offered a triples and he said no, like
on the private jet over there, like.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
He didn't he didn't quite know what Jaden Daniels would be. Yeah,
I mean we both like Jayden Daniels. We didn't think
he'd be this.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
No, I like Drake May Moore and Jayden's been way better.
But Drake May's coming on strong.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Watch him May. But I still can't believe that game.
I mean, New England jumped right on top.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
Of Buffalo Sleepy.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Yeah, Josh Allen worse game since that Texans disaster. You
really think Ben Johnson's leaving Detroit for Chicago, he would
do that.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
I just think Chicago Bears in the division. It's a
blue blood franchise. They got some good players. This is
not a bad roster. No, it's a talented It's a
little bit like the Chargers job, where you've got pieces.
And I think Herbert was more proven than Caleb. Caleb's
still in the ascension stage, whereas everybody kind of knew
(35:31):
Herbert was really good. But it's you know, they got
pass rushers. They had like three hundred and fifty yards offense. Again,
now it was they were playing catch up.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
The whole time.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
But that's they got dudes. Chicago's got dudes.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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