The Favorites - NFL Free Agency with Chris Raybon

A fast and furious start to NFL free agency has Action Network hosts Chad Millman and Simon Hunter excited to break it all down. They welcome colleague Chris Raybon to the program ask him about potential destinations for remaining free agents, the biggest signings, the most overrated moves so far, and more.

And if you want to see the show live, RSVP now to join us for our free Chicago live event, Elite 8 Saturday March 29th at the beloved venue Joe's On Weed. #Volume #Herd

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to The Favorites, the podcast presented by BET three
sixty five. We are part of the Volume Podcast Network.
I am Chad Millman of the Action Network. I'm live
from my Tommy John Holmes Studio, and I'm joined as
always buy my co host, my companion, my compadre, my
BFF professional better Simon Hunter et O, Simon Chad.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
How are we doing?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
We are so good right now because there has been
a lot of activity around the Chicago Bears during the
trade season, the free agency season. I feel like the
Bears have put themselves in a position to be very competitive.
We're going to dig in on that. Plus whatever whatever

(00:54):
team you root for and whatever they've been doing, I
don't know, they don't really tend to make any noise
during the offseason, be as strategic as a team like
the Bears. So we can dig in on that and
everything else that's happening in the NFL with He may
be one of our top five favorite colleagues at the
Action Network, at least top ten. He's the co host

(01:16):
of both the Action Network podcast and the Fantasy Flex.
He joins us for Convince Me on Sundays during the
NFL season. He has long been, a brother, a nemesis,
a friend, all those things wrapped into one. Because he
is a riddle. You can hear him talking all things

(01:37):
NFL betting, fantasy free agency, draft all year round, a
perennial Fantasy Pros, Top ten NFL player projectionist. His name
one of the Action Network ogs, Chris Raybond.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
That was quite the intro.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I was stealing it.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Get glad to be back at you guys. I got
to know how to follow up that chat.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
You're gonna come on, You're gonna be smart. They're gonna
give us some informed takes. You're gonna make me feel
better about what the Bears are doing. You might help
me make some futures bets. We're gonna be great today.
That's what today is about. As a reminder of the
Favorite podcast is presented by Bet three six five and
now new Bet three sixty five. Customers get one hundred
and fifty dollars and bonus bets when you bet five dollars,

(02:22):
sign up using promo code Favorites, deposit ten dollars, lace
a bet for five dollars to get one hundred and
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(02:44):
North Carolina, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or eighteen and
older in Kentucky. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler
or one eight hundred bets off in Iowa terms. Conditions
restrictions apply before we get into NFL Trades NFL Free Agency.
Another reminder officially RSVP for our Free Favorites Live Show

(03:08):
event in Chicago, my hometown. This will be for the
Elite eight March Madness Games on Saturday, March twenty ninth
at Joe's on Weed famously known as Joe's on Weed
Free Event, free drinks, free, live show with college basketball

(03:29):
betting experts Stucky and free Man Weave. Obviously, Simon and
I will be there as well. RSVP to preserve your
spot by clicking the link in the episode's description, or
you can just google the Favorites Live Event Chicago. Be
sure to RSVP Simon. I know that My dad is

(03:49):
so excited to come to this event. He's jealous that
your family has been coming to our favorites events for
years because they've been in New Jersey and Philadelphia and
easy to get to. My dad's freaking out. He can't
wait to get there.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Honestly, can't we wait either, Chad. I'll be honest, like
it's you. Probably the same feeling I do, is that
you go through this winter mode and you not that
you're depressed, but you need sunshine and warmth and that
first day of like semispring. I mean, I know you
had up to get it when it's like sixty seventy
degrees out, Yes, you get that air. To me, that
in the beginning of March Madness is like the best

(04:28):
time of year. Like it's someone that lives in the Northeast.
So the fact that we're going Chicago when the weather's
getting right and we're gonna be partying with fans of
the show and just being around other gamblers and watching
March Madness, it's the best. So yeah, I'm really looking
forward to it.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
I am too, Obviously. I love Chicago's It truly is
like just brings such joy to my heart to be
in my hometown. So I'm excited to get there. One
of my buddies listened to Tuesday Show and he loves these.
His name is Any and he loves these story episodes

(05:03):
that we do. He was so in love with Matt Mitchell.
He was so in love with Matt Mitchell's questions and
his honesty and the story about how Matt proposed to
his wife at a casino. He texted me, He's like,
I am the president of the Matt Mitchell fan Club.
I cannot wait to meet him at the event. So
even Matt Mitchell is going to get some love, and

(05:24):
he'll be there in his you know, master's green blazer.
All right, let's get into it. I feel like we're
making Ray Bun jealous. He might want to come. Fellas. Look,
it has been crazy. Dk Metcalf going to the Steelers,
Justin Fields going to the Jets, Sam Darnold going to Seattle,
Gino Smith going to the Raiders, Daniel Jones going to

(05:47):
the Colts. You know, Stafford is staying in La DeVante,
Adams is going to La The Eagles have been offloading
the Josh Allen extension. All of this, all this has
been happened, right, Raybell, let me start with you the
top two free agent signings slash trades people are not

(06:10):
talking enough about and why.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
I think it's I think you got to start with
the team that lost the Super Bowl to Kansas City
Chiefs signing Javid Moore to play presumably their left tackle position.
You know, we saw all the issues that they had
going up against that Eagles pass rush, and you know,
then they end up losing Joe Toney they trade him,
so they kind of made a bet, you know, on
their under two interior linemen and uh Moore, who's who

(06:38):
played really well like last year, there was really no
drop off last couple of years when he subbed in
for Trent Williams and San Francisco. So if they can,
if he can keep that up, that would solve just
a major issue. Uh for the Kansas City Chiefs. That
was probably the difference between them, uh, you know, being
in position at least keeping it a game in in
that three pat and not and then and kind of

(07:00):
a related situation, I would say, like another one is
Laramie Tunseel getting traded to the Washington Commanders. You know,
as good as Jaden Daniels can move around. They're still
in the division with the Eagles. But the Eagles lost
some guys on their defensive line, so that kind of
tilts the power a little bit too. So I thought

(07:21):
those two those two moves offensive line, no you know, no,
no sexy wide receivers, quarterbacks going straight to the offensive line.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
You know, it's interesting obviously, Simon, you and I talk
about offensive line and defensive line being so powerful when
it comes to looking at these teams, handicapping these teams,
what did you see raybon in More? You say there
was no drop off from Trent Williams. It's not like
the Niners went five deep at running back this year, right.

(07:52):
It seemed like every single week one of their guys
was getting hurt. And I think it was who was
the guy Isaac Gudiera Rundow from U c ol A,
Like even he was like in that running scheme doing
amazingly well. What was so good about More? That makes
you feel like there wasn't a drop off? What did
you see? What were the numbers?

Speaker 3 (08:14):
So the way I'll put it is, let's think of
a team that has a really good offensive line, the
Philadelphia Eagles. We know how good they can run right.
But and Simon could attest to this. When they brought
in Johnson like the other Johnson for for a couple
of games at tackle, uh, you know, he couldn't. He
was not playing well at all. Whereas when you looked

(08:35):
at More like I was kind of knocking down San
Francisco's run game each and every week, I was, I was,
you know, upping their pressure rate, and it really just
didn't happen. Over the past two seasons, he's played about
uh five hundred total snaps and that's that's really the
question mark, but only two sacks allowed for more only

(09:00):
in his entire career on about one thousand total snaps.
And the big thing is he can He's a swing tackle,
but mostly left tackle, so I think that's really important.
You know, that left tackle spot, which is so crucial
for the Chiefs. And then because you lost Tuning, now
you don't even have that, oh traded, you don't have

(09:21):
that option, So they're making it a big bet on More.
His His PFF pass blot grade has gone up each
of the last three seasons. He was a seventy three
point one last year, which is very very good. And
I just think that if he plays like he played
especially last year in kind of abbreviated snaps, you know,

(09:42):
with under three hundred snaps. I just think that's a
huge upgrade for the Chiefs because they had that dominant
interior line with Joe Tuney, you know, Jones and Humphrey
and they, I mean, excusey, Trey Smith and Humphrey and
they really it didn't it didn't show through like you had.
Your running game was really struggling down the stretch, especially

(10:03):
for Checho and against good pass rushes. Mahomes was still
getting sacked and being forced into bad decisions. So it's
obvious that that tackle spot is huge for the Chiefs.
So they kind of made a bet on that. You know,
the money's getting a little bit tighter, even though the
cap has risen just because of you know what they're
paying to some of their stars. So I just think
that's going to be such a big move. And it

(10:25):
doesn't go right, they'll probably be in trouble some men.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's an annual tradition. People will forget about the Chiefs,
people will not want to bet on the Chiefs. People
will overlook the Chiefs. Even though the Chiefs are seven
to one right now after the Eagles to win the
Super Bowl plus seven hundred along with the Ravens just
ahead of the Bills. Do you agree with this idea

(10:50):
from Raybon?

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah? I like in the sense that I think, just
like most years, will be able to get great value
on the Chiefs when we bet them in October to
win the Super Bowl, that this soil Lion's gonna need
some time to get it together. They'll drop one or
two games, maybe lose a game to the Raiders in
week two. Everyone jumps off ship. Me and you, Chad,
always the wiser, will just passionately wait and get them

(11:13):
at what twelve to one, thirteen to one? That's usually
how it goes. But yeah, for me, you know, I
love the off season these moves because it is the classic.
One man's trash is another man's treasure, and a lot
of these moves are just trash to trash. Right. It's like,
are the Jets the Jets really get better by getting
justin fields? No, those fans have been through hell. They're

(11:34):
excited about it because they're going from an old forty
year old man to a young great athlete in his twenties,
and they're hoping that maybe they can find a spark
with Justin Fields and this team. So it's really fun
this time of the year. And for me, it's all
about the betting angle, right, Chad, And that's what this
show is about. And you know, a week ago I
gave out I Love the Rams twenty eight to one.

(11:58):
They go out get divine. The Adams. Forty nine ers
have just basically getting all the guys off the ship.
They're just cutting all the old guys trying to get young.
The Rams are now twenty to one for Super Bowl odds,
so that's a big movement based off what the forty
nine ers have done and what the Rams themselves have done.
So that's to me, that's great because I love you know,

(12:19):
I just love getting good value and it's like, Okay,
we got a great number on the Rams, and it's
keep going. I think it's gonna keep dropping because I
don't know who's going to be betting the forty nine
ers better than professional betters. Right. The public to me
is going to be totally off this fort ninners team,
just because I think anyone, anyone rationally would think they'd
miss their window. Right, they're getting rid of they're all
pro full back. They're getting rid of Deebo, which you

(12:41):
can say Deebo has kind of missed it, that's fair,
but he's still an important cock to their offense. Right now,
it is all on Ayuk and a second year player
and a wide receiver. So it's it's really interesting what's
happening with these two teams and the Rams of fort niners,
because all you're hearing right now with the forty nine
ers is that they're gonna have to pay party and
they're fighting behind because pretty saying I think I'm an elite,

(13:03):
and they're saying, well, the talent around you elite, we
don't think you are, so we're not going to pay
you fifty million dollars. So is that a lot of
drama chat has got carry into the season Because I
know you are in on the forty nine ers, I'm
not right, I like the Rams side of it. So
I think those are two very very unique teams where
everything feels like it's been negative this offseason for the
forty nine ers, where things have been really positive for
this Rams team, and then you know, to go to

(13:23):
your Bears team. I mean, I know you were just
pointing to talk about it. I can't get over it.
Like the fact they address the interior line in such
a great way right getting the best center that was available.
Addressing the left guard and right guard we talked about
last year. I told you I think interior now on
the offensive line is more important to the next year here.
I really think there's been a switch to the NFL

(13:44):
where it's more important to having a really good left
guard and right guard than is a left tackle and
right tackle. Even more so with an offense like you, Chad,
where Caleb he can he can mess up when there's
rush up the middle if he gets pushed the outside.
That's where we've seen the magical Kala limbs like his
His movement on the outside once you get side the
pocket's brilliant. It's inside the pocket that's been a struggle

(14:05):
for him. Right when he gets that Perchu up the
middle and he gets happy feet, that's been a problem.
Ben Johnson came in day one and went to your
GM and told him that's what I want to do.
So I love it because this year has been different
than lat year. Last year was all about Derrick, Henry
Saquan right, these sexy running backs, trying to add them
to a team that's missing one piece. For this year,
it really feels like it's been not just boring, but

(14:27):
more about address the interior offensive line, addressed the D
line because of what the Eagles did in the Super Bowl,
where we have a little bit of mixed sprinkedin of
DK and you know Adams, he's ever want to receiver
switching teams. But to me, this offseason has really been
about addressing these teams D lines and offensive line. So
I'm loving every move the Bear's team has made so far.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, look, I'm glad you brought it up. I wasn't
going to open ye.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
I bet you are.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
I didn't want to be the homer.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
You kn't deny it. It's incredible.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Look, I love I love that Ray runs. Two top
plays were offensive tackles. I love that one of your
key points is talking interior line. I agree with you,
and I don't disagree with you. Because of what we
saw with Caleb Williams. Most obviously, teams are trying to

(15:19):
play their young quarterbacks as quickly as possible. The biggest
challenge for young quarterbacks is when they get pressure up
the middle, When they have pressure in their face and
they have to run to the edge, but they might
not have time because it's so overwhelming to have three
guys coming at you from the middle of the off
from the middle of the defensive line who are so

(15:41):
much faster than you are used to when you've been
playing in college. You can't get to the edge, so
you just keep running backwards. Right. We saw this with
Caleb Williams. Everything you just said is true before we
get to the Bears. My quibble with what you're saying
about the Niners is deebo is gone. Fine, he was
trending down. Brandon I Luke is back. He was the

(16:01):
primary target for brock Purty anyways, So it's a wash. Right.
You might lose some something, you know, because you're losing
a high profile fullback who was an important part of
your scheme. But you're going to get back Christian McCaffrey,
so you're getting back to your most important playmakers, and
you're still going to have Kittle at tight end. So

(16:21):
I don't worry so much about the Niners. In fact,
I might buy into the Niners again if their odds drop,
because I think you might still be getting value on
there now. For the Bears, the number one play for me,
Drew Dolmen signing the center from the Falcons sign in
how many times over the past two years, whether it

(16:43):
was Arthur Smith or the new scheme that the Falcons
were running, did we talk about Drew Dolmen at Chris
Linstrom the right guard for the Falcons. They were so
dominant when you look at Raybound talks about their PFF grades, right,
the PFF grades. Lyn Trim and Dolman were so highly
rated by PFF over the past couple of seasons because

(17:06):
of their ability to control the line of scrimmage and
create a scheme that allows the Falcons to be so
effective in the running game. I can't believe the Bears
now have Joe Toney and Drew Dolman as part of
their interior line. Jonah Jackson, I think the jury's out.
Is he going to be a Pro Bowl player? Is
going to be a guy who's sort of off the
roster last year essentially for the Rams? I don't know.

(17:30):
But Drew Dolman, Joe Toney, that's I mean.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
And so we backed up a truck for Grady Jarrett.
We got a grown ass man now playing in the
middle of the defensive line like Holy Tomley, go ahead, Oh.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
I was just going to piggyback off. What you're saying
is that it's year one of what you expect to
be two to three years of the right direction, right,
Like this is just the beginning. We don't want to
get too far ahead of our skis, like Nick Wright
and pick the Bears go to super Bowl this season.
But it's it's you can't deny it, right, These are
the exact moves you wanted to see, right. You didn't
want to see them go get another wide receiver. You

(18:10):
didn't want to see them go out and sign you know,
as much as I love Milon Williams, his contract's atrocious, Like,
no one should be paying million Williams the amount of
money he just received from the Patriots. Like that's the
type of move that you guys could have made and
been like, okay, same old Bears, just trying to make
a splash, But no, it's all logical, smart And I'm
sure Chris feels the same way, where it's like, you know,

(18:31):
we like to shit on you and your Bears, Dad,
It's it's hard to shit on them this offseason where
they've really nailed it at this point.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, it's all about Kayler Williams now. Like you know,
last year there was a lot of optimism too, but
the team, you know, to your points, I mean, it
was just not quite built the right way. It was
too many flashy, like fantasy video game type moves where
you know, the wide receiving called it great, but you
got a rookie quarterback, you know, not great coaches. So
it really comes down to Caleb because I think I

(19:00):
think we know what Ben Johnson is offensively. Now he
could turn. Maybe he's one of those coaches that when
he gets more responsibilities, you might struggle in certain aspects.
But I think ultimately Caleb Williams at times was really
bad last year and at other times he was really good.
So this year he's gonna have no excuse with what

(19:21):
they put around him offensively in terms of the coaching
staff and the offensive line.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, look, you could have looked at it a couple
different ways. The Bears last year decided we can't do
all of it at once. We went after the talent
that we thought was available. They re signed DJ Moore.
He came on at certain points at the end of
the year, started to get more comfortable. They went after
Keenan Allen. He probably won't be with the team this year.

(19:46):
They drafted Roma Dunes, right, they went after sort of
the best players that were available at the time, didn't
overspend on the offensive line. They kept the Refluse. Everybody
thought that was a mistake, but maybe I don't think
they were get you know, they were playing three D
chess here and thinking, Okay, we're going to keep Eberflues
because he's only gonna last one more year and then

(20:06):
we're gonna get Ben Johnson. You don't want to waste
a year at Kayleb Williams. They did the best they
could in the second year. They're being very focused on
the offensive line. Before we came on the air, we
were joking about like inept teams. The Cowboys have had
an inept unremarkable, questionable, head scratching offseason where for the

(20:30):
umpteenth year in a row, they are not spending, They're
not willing to sign players. Rico Dowdell just signed a
new deal with another team, one year, three million. He's
going to be better than any running back the Cowboys
are putting money on and they could have had him
for nothing. Right, The Bears have historically been a team
that would not go all in on coaches. They went

(20:51):
all in on Ben Johnson, they have gone all in
on Grady jar they have gone all in Andrew domand
they have. You can't say the Bears are not spending
this year. I'm as shot as anybody. I think it's amazing,
just amazing. But this will not be the year, Simon.
Will not be the year like two years ago where

(21:13):
I overinvest in the Chicago Bears like we did with
Justin Fields. Let's talk about fields for a second. The
NFL is kind of about one thing right now. As
dynamic as a player can be at the quarterback position,
if he can't convert the easy throws on third down,

(21:34):
if you can't rely on the quarterback to execute in
the four or five times a game when he has
to make the throw, you can't have a winning team.
If we talk about free agent signings and trades, people
are talking too much about but won't matter. Justin Fields
to the Jets for me, is right at the top
of the list. Simon, agree or disagree, you have an

(21:57):
opposing view. Do you have another one to add to this?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I'll disagree in a sense that I just believe in
quarterbacks and taking the upside, and it doesn't matter what
they've done other places. We've learned now over the years
that the hope is you find the Baker Sam Darnold
type of year right, You're always gonna believe that if
I have the right coaching, put the right pieces around
these guys, that we can make this work. Right, Because
there's a reason that Justin Fields was a top pick, right.

(22:24):
Athleticism is off the charts. It's just what you talked
about his checkdown passes, Like when it's when he's gotting
a little pressure in his face, he can't complete a
four yard pass. That's a major issue. Like you're saying,
there's a reason he's not a start in the league.
It's basically that. It's pretty simple. He comes down to it.
That's really the issue with him. And you know, when
I'm breaking this down and looking at his film and
why the Jets are making this move, they have a

(22:46):
vision for it. They have a vision for what they're
going to do. Now I'm on the other side where
I think they might be one of the worst teams
in all football, this Jets team. So the fact they're
making this move giving him a two year deal. Baby.
In their mind, they're just like, well, good, we'll get
a high draft pick next year and go get our
quarterback for real, and then we'll just have him next
year on the one year deal and he can be
a nice little bridge gap quarterback. Because I'm in the
same camp as you chat where it's like when you

(23:08):
look at their division right now, they're in fourth, and
it's it feels like by a lot right they're they're
way behind Josh Allen Tua and now the hope is
Drake May ticks that next step. So yeah, for me
and you, I feel like it's gonna be pretty easy
bet taking their under. This Jets team and just everything
they've done this offseason is just like could it happen?

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Right?

Speaker 2 (23:29):
We saw it happened last year the Viking. Sure, anything
can happen in football. Sam Darnal could have a career year,
justin Fields could come come out have a career year.
I bet you he doesn't, and I'm willing to put
money on it. So that's it's pretty interesting. That was
their big move. And the Jets fans are happy, but
you know, they're just like Cowboys fans, man, They're just
they've been through it, like you know, the Cowboys, like
you just started like talking about how bad they've been

(23:50):
and how they haven't really done anything in this offseason.
It's like, you know, that's stat. Washington made it last
last year. Washington made it to the conference championship game.
The Cowboys only team the NFC that have not been
the conference championship game in like thirty years. That doesn't
even sound real if you're a fan of football or
fan just how dominant they were in the nineties. So yeah,

(24:11):
I get why their fans are pissed off, and I'm
honestly shocked that it's not talked about more in media
right now about how the Cowboys are just everything they're
doing is wrong, right, not signing Michael Parsons before all
these other dns just got paid big money. Everything I
do is just wrong. So yeah, I'm right there with
you where it's like, you know, the Justin Fields thing

(24:33):
not doesn't move the needle for me, But I get
why they did it because it's like, what else are
you gonna do? There's that's that's the problem with this
league is only thirty two quarterbacks, and we choke, We
joke all the time chat. You don't want that bottom
ten quarterbacks. They're all the same, they're all interchangeable. So yeah,
really really tough spot for the Jets, But there is
some upside in the play, so I get where they're

(24:53):
doing it.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Ray Bond, you're shaking your head affirmatively. I should note
when Simon is saying the Jets may one of the
worst teams.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I think, and this extends to really I would
say you're asking just more generally, what is the the
signing or signings that people were talking too much about.
That's not gonna mean anything. I think it's just all
this veteran quarterback musical chairs. I think the most important
quarterback went to the most important place he could be,

(25:25):
and that was Matthew Stafford staying with the Rams because
we already saw that he can win a Super Bowl
at this stage in his career. With this general iteration
of the Rams, you know, that's that's that's what we've seen.
So everyone else, you know, Raiders getting Geno Smith, I'm
gonna fade them, the Seahawks getting Sam Darnold, Gonna fade them,

(25:49):
Jets getting Justin Fields, gonna fade them. Who else I'm
leaving out you know, like where Aaron.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Rodgers Daniel Jones.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they need Daniel Jones is like
statistically anyway, it's hilarious. He was just so much better
of a thrower of the football than Anthony Richardson last
year that it's comical. But yeah, just another example of
like this year. Simon kind of alluded to it earlier.

(26:23):
You know, like quarterback is the most important position, you
know in terms of betting and the points right and
all that, but it seemed like last year the most
important move was moves were running backs. We saw the
Ravens and you know, competing for a title with Henry
and then of course Saquon and the Eagles end up
winning it. And this year just it's like all these
quarterback musical chairs and nothing really moves the needle. Like

(26:45):
even wherever Aaron Rodgers goes to me doesn't really move
the needle because all the teams that are the true contenders,
and and our guy evn Abrams talks about this all
the time, like if you kind of looked about about
twelve to one, it's where the cutoff is if you
can't get to that twelve one spot in terms of
Super Bowl odds. By the time the season starts, you're
pretty much out of the running. And Burrow is probably

(27:09):
the quarterback that didn't make it last year that's in
the running. But Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, we know the
guys Hurts Lamar like these teams, the teams that are
gonna contend to have a quarterback, the Rams are are
going to be there, I think, and all these other
guys just doesn't mean much. And I don't think this
rookie class is particularly strong either, So all you know,
everyone wants to talk about quarterbacks, and you know, even

(27:31):
Metcalf to the Steelers because that's kind of quarterback adjacent
where great, it's like they have they have they always
are going to have a high floor, and maybe that
rais are ceiling a little bit. But you know, Seahawks
win one ten games with with with good receivers last
year and a mediocre quarterback and didn't even couldn't even
make the playoffs. And the Steers are in a competitive

(27:53):
division as well. So I just think all these quarterback
moves get talked about a little too much, and I
don't really think are going to change who we see
in that in that final four.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Could not agree more. The Steelers interesting though, because like,
if it's not going to be Aaron Rodgers and Raybon,
You've been writing for seven years that Aaron Rodgers was
on the down side of his career and using really
thoughtful stats and analysis to back it up. We saw

(28:24):
a lot of it last year. I think a lot
of people are going to be enamored with a three
four game stretch where all of a sudden he looked healthy,
Maybe he was getting a little bit better production, you know,
with the four or five times they saw him make
the exact throw that only Aaron Rodgers can make, and
all of a sudden he's going to pair with Mike

(28:45):
Tomlin and hit dk Metcalf down the field, and that's
going to be the difference. I'm not saying it. Yeah,
just not a thing. It's not a thing. It's not
a thing. Signon, it's not a thing.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I like to move though for them, And you know,
we'll give some flowers to our guy Peter King, where
I told you two months ago, Peter King said that
he thought Rogers was going to go to the Steelers,
and it's like, clearly the Steelers have been putting out
there they like him that long ago. For Peter King,
who doesn't say much in the media, to come out
and say that, so you know, that was a big

(29:24):
deal to me. I think it's another spot of yeah,
they're not gonna win a super Bowl because of it.
But I feel like Christi has nailed it, Like we're
not betting the under on their win total this year,
Like that's the exact quarterback they get in there to
get to somehow get the nine or ten wins. Like
this is the perfect match for them, and if he
doesn't go there, it sucks for them because they're probably

(29:44):
still going to get to the seven wins somehow. It
doesn't matter who the quarterback is going to be, even
if it's you know, Mason Rudolph, whoever they bring in there.
But it's a Tomlin magic man. It's just crazy how
he can just take trash and make it work. It's
the same reason Russell Wilson is radioactive right now. No
one signed him, right no one. No one actually believes it.

(30:05):
No one understands how that man won so many games
that Steelers team last year. It's all part of that
Steelers of magic. So yeah, going back to these different
teams and how they run their organization. There's just some
teams shad they're just dumb and they overthink. I mean,
the biggest one that jumps out to me has to
be the Giants. Right this offseason, Giants just sign Slayton,
a wide receiver two to thirty nine to thirty eight

(30:27):
million dollars three years, thirty eight million. That's the same
amount they passed on paying Saquon the year before. So
it's like, none of these things make sense when you
really break it down to its core, because these teams
just overthink stuff. And like we talk of the time,
the salar cap is just going to keep going up.
So people will be like, did you say how much
so and so got paid? Yeah, it looks stupid on paper,

(30:48):
but it's like the salard cap just keeps going up.
That's why you know, as an Eagles fan, I think
this is the first off season of my life that
we are the team that is just losing people left
and right while not bringing anybody in. And honestly, it's
the greatest feeling in the world. It's like, holy shit,
we are the best, one of the best drafting teams

(31:08):
in football. That all we're so good. All we can
do is sign our own guys and we have to
let other guys walk. Where Even last year, our two
super Bowl winning moves were Zach Brawn and Sakuon Barkley,
two free agent signings at this time of year. So
to me, that's for a lot of teams out there
where like you know, we pooh pooh f agent signings.
Shit does matter if you have the right GM and

(31:28):
making the right moves. These are the type of things
that can set you up for Super Bowl. But on
the flip side, you can set your team back four
or five years in a really bad fregency move where
you're spending all this money like Tennessee last year. Think
of Tennessee. They spent all that money chat just to
be the number one pick. It's just that's what's so
brutal about this time of year. It's like, I don't
want to shit on everyone's team. They're sharing teams. You

(31:49):
look at side at it, You're just like, man, this
is they're gonna be the exact same spot four or
five years, cutting these guys on these big contracts, and
it's just it's just bad money spending. So I don't
know how you view it. But I'm of that mentality
of there's some teams that are nailing it, like the Bears,
and there's other teams who are just like this team
is going to be spending their tires for another three
four years, like New Orleans Saints and a couple of

(32:10):
other teams.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
It's clear you and I talked about this a couple
of weeks ago. It's clear there are franchises you just
don't want to be a fan of right now. The Saints,
the Browns, the Titans, like, these are teams that are flailing.
They don't know what they're doing. They don't have the
personnel in their executive suites to be making indecisions to
help put them in a position to be successful five

(32:32):
years down the road. Howie Roseman, I feel like he
is sitting in his office in Philadelphia. He's looking at
his board and feeling so good about the position he
has put his team in because, yeah, they've lost CJ. Gardner, Johnson,

(32:53):
they are losing Milton Williams, but he has loaded his
defensive line, he has loaded is defensive backfield. He's got
Cooper dejen right, He's got Quinja and Mitchell Like he
has made such good moves and he's probably looking at
this thinking, I know how to draft, I know what
I'm looking for in a player. I will be able

(33:14):
to backfill these roles as people price themselves out and
get their big, mega deals elsewhere, and we will be
totally fine. I feel like the Eagles are flying high.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, he didn't hesitate either, which I give tons ahead
of credit to Howie where he paid the guys were
other teams like the Bengals, I mean talk about disaster
right like they didn't. They couldn't get the deal with
them Don last year. Chase Now it's gonna be another
extra twenty thirty million, top whatever he was asking last year.
T Higgins. I don't even think whatever they throwed him,
I think he's gonna walk regardless. He fucking hates the Bengals,

(33:49):
like the fact they tagged him again and someone put
up a great stat of Joe Burrow and Hurts got
a contract in the same offseason. The Eagles have spent
like three hundred million since then on players to resign
to their team. The Bengals have spent like twenty thirty million.
So it just shows you how stupid these franchise can be.
Where you know, you just need to make the money work.
But I'm with you in the sense that you know

(34:13):
obviously how he's nailing this offseason. But you know, we
talk all the time. There's moves that teams make that
are terrible, Like we we had a couple signings last
year of guys that we're paying twenty million dollars to
that never touched the field for us. And that's just
how it is. Right, You're not always gonna nail. You
don't win them all exactly, and I think it's probabilistic,
and people get too obsessed with the misses where it's like,

(34:35):
on your team, success is making the playoffs. I know
people don't want to hear that, but it really is.
I know, it's like why I want more. Right, if
you're you're a fan of the Bills and Josh Allen,
you're like, take the MVP. I could give two shits
about winning the MVP. I won a Super Bowl, Like,
I get that perspective, but take a deep breath, you
could be the fucking Jets. So that's what I always
try to tell people, where it's like, yeah, you want

(34:56):
to win the Super Bowl. The Bill is of course
you want to be nothing around for thirty forty years,
Like you want people still talking about Joe fucking Nameth. No,
Like that's literally living in hell. So that's why I
always try to have perspective of this where it's like,
you know, this this Bill's team. You know, they had
a couple moves this offseason that you were like, I
don't know what they're doing. Then they come and they
signed that contract with Josh Allen. You're like, that's why

(35:18):
they're a great organization, right, they got Josh Alla, would
take a great deal, left some money on the table
to go get other guys, And it's like, that's what
great teams do. They don't give Dak Prescott sixty five
million dollars at the last minute to come play for them.
So it's like you really are seeing which teams are
going to keep going up and which teams just feel
like they're going to keep going down. And that's that's
the most interesting part of the offseason. You kind kind

(35:40):
of see they're right on the wall at.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
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That's Tommy John dot com slash favorites. I'm just going
to say, I feel like that was a stretch in
terms of the metaphor. You know, wasn't as easy, Simon, Yeah,

(37:02):
what are you laughing at?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Just I love Van Mitchell has comments. He just wrote
feedback as a gift the best.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Wow, that's right. I didn't see that so Ray, But
I want your take on this. Simon just said there
are teams that the goal is to make the playoffs,
and that there are teams that are perennial perennially pathetic,
like the Jets, and teams like the Bills who your
goal is to win the title. At what point does

(37:30):
your feeling as a fan that making the playoffs is
the right thing start to wear thin? I e a
lot of blowback on the Steelers right now. Is it
enough to just consistently be good and make the playoffs?
They want more? Or are the expectations too high? When

(37:50):
is it time to blow it up? And are the
Steelers there?

Speaker 3 (37:55):
We think no? So I think the thing that people
don't get and it's frustrating as a fan when your
team is kind of stuck in that you know, quote
unquote purgatory, but it's really like the upper class purgatory
if you're just making the playoffs every year or finishing
with a five hundred or better record. I think with
the Steelers, it's just really come down to they haven't

(38:16):
had the quarterback and you're not going to You're not.
You could win it because of other guys, but not
without a quarterback, you know, Like the Eagles got through
a lot of the year Jayalen Hurts sometimes he didn't
have to do much. A lot of the time he
didn't have to do much. But when it counted, Jayalen
Hurts was a week and that's just that's the Eagles.

(38:38):
Then that speaks to Howie Roseman. The Steelers just haven't
really had that. They you know, they got one with
h with Big Ben. They were in a couple there
and then it just got a lot worse. So the
thing about a high floor is if you want a
high ceiling, if you're locking in a high floor, then
you know your ceiling's gonna be higher because you know,

(39:01):
it's correlated like that. At the end of the day,
I would much rather be this be the Steelers and
just be like a quarterback away, you know, every year,
then kind of have no you know, dude, like be
the Giants who I think ownership has just meddled ever
since the end of it got really bad at the

(39:23):
end of Eui Mann's career after he had won those
couple and then around that bench at the time they
benched him for Gina, Like everything just unraveled there and
you could see it. The Jets have been the same
way the last couple of decades. You know, they keep
throwing the same thing at the wall in different ways
and just doesn't stick. So I don't think the stealer.
I think the Steelers are a model organization. But unfortunately

(39:46):
this this is why you know, Josh Allen got three
hundred and thirty million dollars and we're over here saying,
you know, he left money on the table, because that's
how much quarterbacks do matter for certain teams, and you
know they they do matter in general, but for a
team Mike, the Steelers, that that it meant everything because
that's the difference. You know, they were trotting out Kenny
Pickett justin fields, uh, the ghost of Russell Wilson, Mason Rudolph,

(40:11):
Like that's that's why the Steelers aren't going Yeah exactly, Yeah,
So that's that that's that's that's really what it is.
But yeah, there's teams like we saw with the Giants,
they Joe Shane has no idea. Well, he like he
makes some moves that turn out good, and but when
he starts going through his thought processes, and I'm sure
this has a lot to do with ownership too, and

(40:32):
there's things we're not seeing. But uh, it's just a
lot of these movies don't don't quite make sense to me.
And then a lot of them are just kind of
fixing other things. And uh, you know, even like the
like now you signed it, paulsing the debo, but like
what if you don't, like I don't you know, I
wouldn't want to put myself in position to where if

(40:53):
I didn't get a quarterback, like I could just take Hunter,
and I don't. I don't know if you still do
that now. So like it's I just think. I just
think there's a lot going on with ownership. And that's
why the Giants and the Jets, you know you heard
mad ratings and things like that, those two teams in particular,
that's why he keeps seeing them just struggle for the
better part of a couple of decades.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Now, Josh Allen got a quarter of a billion dollars
guaranteed guaranteed.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
How many quarterbacks have you ever seen hurdle anyone. Goodness,
there's no field, no way.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
And by the way, when he can go for a
new contract, he's going to be thirty two years old.
He could make half a billion dollars in real money
over the next eight years, guaranteed. Imagine that just from football,
just from football football, he could end up with five

(41:46):
hundred million dollars.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
And just from my perspective of like we're talking about
quarterbacks here is that's the beautiful thing about football is
you don't need Josh Allen. Usually Josh Allen doesn't get
you shit in football, right, Like we've seen it time
and time again. These great quarterbacks. It's not their fault,
right because it is a team sport, but there's so
much he goes into it in that the fact that
you know, right now in the NFL, we're in a

(42:10):
weird spot chat where we've had a run of dynasties.
Right We've had the chiefs in the Patriots dynasty. So
right now, you know, if you want to count Russell
Wilson to start in the league, we have four quarterbacks
that are starters that have won super Bowls in football
right now. Right Stafford Mahomes Hertz and Russell Wilson. That's
really unique. Like there's thirty two teams, there's only four starters.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
That is an insane stat Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
And like that kind of things because I want to
bring people in perspective of it's so tough to get
there and actually do it, like you need so much
fucking luck. I mean, think about the shape of a football.
It's the weirder shaped ball in all major sports. You
don't know which way that fucking thing is gonna bounce, Like,
you know, even hanging around Eagles fans, how cocky they
are talking about all the fumbles we got in the

(42:52):
playoffs and how that helped us get to the super Bowl.
It's like they don't know where that ball is gonna
bounce and he punched that shit out, Like it's all
this random things to add up to them getting to
the Super Bowl winning it. And obviously you know that
was a crazy runof they had the most points ever
in that Super Bowl history era of points in the playoffs, right,
that was a very unique team. But at the core

(43:13):
of football this way, I'll never get all these different
teams in the moves they make. We've had years of
Jimmy Garoppolo making it to a fucking super Bowl. Brock
Purdy made it to a super Bowl, Like you can
make it there with below average quarterbacks that are trying
to buy really good talent on their teams. And I think,
you know, the greatest team and player ever in my
mind of this example are those Eli Manning Giant teams. Right.

(43:36):
He never made the playoffs and did anything when he
did make it, he won fucking super Bowls. And that
was kind of thing where that team drafted right on
their D line. They had Spags the decoordinator, and then
they had Elon who had that clutch gene with plexico
and they had a good run game. All those things
got into it. But it's like too many these teams
want to be perfect, right, They want to make the
perfect team, get a top five quarterback and make it

(43:57):
all work. You don't need all that in football, Like
there's so much that goes into it. So that's why
I think we're in a weird spot right now where
these teams are. You know, they're chasing different teams trying
to copy their what they how they built their teams out.
I told you last year I had heard from people
in the Eaglo organization that they were going to copy
the forty nine ers that they when they saw what
Christian McCaffrey did to that offense. Howie who has never

(44:19):
paid running back in his whole life. So I don't
fucking care. The NFL has changed two ice safeties is
a real thing. I'm going out there. I'm getting what
I think is the best running back in football. You.
I mean, I'm sure you've seen all the conferences him
talking Saquon. It's like he literally said to the dude,
you're the reason we just won the Super Bowl, Like
you were the difference that we needed that we didn't
have two years ago, and teams out there that wanted

(44:41):
to do it this year, there was no running back
out there to do that. Now we have this draft
coming up with Gentry and there's a couple of guys
out there that I think are game changers. But you
definitely saw this year in the fergency class that teams
weren't going to be like, Okay, there's a saque there's
Derrick Henry out there, because there isn't. You've seen a pullback,
and like we talked about, they've attacked the offense to
line the defensive lines, because to me, this draft class

(45:03):
has really good running backs. So it's gonna interesting in
this draft coming up. Does Gentry go in the top ten?
Do teams reach for him because they think they're a
piece away your Bears team, Chad, I wouldn't hate them
taking him. Like, there's certain teams I feel like you
could add him and they're gonna be in the same
position as what we've seen this Eagles team Detroit. I mean,
look what they've done getting running backs right, that's kind

(45:24):
of changed the whole organization. So I do think that
we're going to this weird time where people are like
so obsessed with quarterbacks like we all are. It's fun
make a top five, top ten list when it really
does matter. All these other pieces have been so important.
I would love your Chris's view on that, if he's
got to view on these running back classes coming out.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Well, yeah, that's the first thing I was gonna bring
up with. Yeah, genty is the favorite now to go
to the Chicago Bears, which because they address their offensive line.
You know, everyone thought they were going to take the
offensive line. Now they have some options, So totally agree.
I think it. Like I said at the end of
the day with the Bears is gonna come down, Okay,
But Williams, that's the guy who has shown it, and

(46:03):
we know he has a talent, but he hasn't proven
it yet. You're like, ask Jacksonville, you know how they're
doing with that? So like that's that's that's The Bears
have everything around him, I think. But the one I
was going to bring up, since we were talking about
Josh Allen and just how Portanty's running backs are in
the playoffs, what did the Bills lean on. It wasn't

(46:24):
Josh Allen throwing the football. It was James Cook who
turned into an absolute monster. And the every week it
seem like James Cook was undervalued, even in the touchdown market,
which is a notoriously inflated market. You know, he was undervalued,
and it's because they saw something in James Cook. You know,
he got a lot more physical Uh, he had the

(46:46):
speed he can catch it and run. And that's a
big thing that those three down backs are coming back
into Bogue a little bit, I know. And and then
the Bills also had Tdy Johnson coming out of nowhere
playing really well. Made that crazy catch in the UH
against the in the playoffs. So I think running backs
are it kind of got to that low point in
the market where I think they had like a conference

(47:07):
or a meeting with all them at one point and
trying to figure out how they can increase their value. Well,
I think they have. So the fact that we're talking
about Ashton Jens as good as he's been, you know,
usually those kind of running backs, it's like, all right,
you know they're great in college, and then everyone's still
talking about you know, pick twenty, picked thirty, second round, nah,

(47:28):
gents is like they're talking about him going fifth, sixtyes,
and so uh yeah. I think the Eagles kind of
paved the way with one of the probably the best
GM in the game, giving Saquon bark We a massive
deal and it worked out, and and and then the
Bills we saw them Meano and James Cook, even when
they had Josh Allen and every week we're like, where's Cooper,

(47:50):
Where's you know, who's gonna where's dog King k? Where's
all these guys, James Cook and Tyd Johnson? So yeah,
in the ravens Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
So Raybon, who do you think is in Simon? I
want you to answer this too. The Washington Commanders last year,
they blew up the league. Jaden Daniels was brilliant. Obviously,
you mentioned we started the show talking about Laramie Tunsel
going to the Commanders. But what was interesting about the

(48:21):
Commanders obviously was Jaden Daniels' performance, but their willingness to
lean into the analytics in high leverage situations, especially on
fourth downs, especially on fourth and three, four, five, in
that range, way outside of the red zone, doing it

(48:45):
consistently explosive plays coming from Jaden Daniels. It's funny we
talk about the NFL. You watch these games and like
every single week, whether it's raybon Kern or me Simon Stuckey,
we're talking about these games as if they will play
out according to sort of methodical pacing, what we expect

(49:08):
to be normalized play calling, what we expect to be
perfect play, and teams to play in the manner in
which the overall stats say they're going to play. It
always comes down to the explosive play. It comes down
to the fourth down call, it comes down to the
deep out, it comes down to the blown coverage, whatever

(49:29):
it is. That's why betting is exciting because all of
a sudden you're like, oh, I was only one play away,
or oh I got this play right. Those are the
difference makers when you're talking about betting. Who will be
the commanders of this season? The team that leans into
the high leverage situations.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
I got an answer, I think, give it to me.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
What's a fucking podcast? Give me your answer.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Not just it's not just that, it's I think they
have the talent too. And think about it like this,
who's been the best team against the spread over the
past few years. It's been the Detroit Lions. Right, They've
just been They've just been cover machines. The team that
I think last year I was saying they were kind

(50:14):
of a poor man's Lions, But they have the talent
to be just as good. Tampa Bay Baker Mayfield interesting,
could be the next take On or somebody like that.
They got an offensive line, they got they got a
secondary they you know, they took some stabs at pass

(50:38):
rush with Reddick, and but they got a defensive coach,
So you don't worry too much about the defense. Defense
has pieces. I mean, what what's stopping the Bucks from
from being like the Mayfield Bucks? The in the for
being the goth Lions, who everyone thought was going to
be in the Super Bowl over the Eagles last year.
That's the team that I think is just severely overlooked.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Sign and what do you think of that?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
I love it. People are gonna hate this because this
feels like a way too heavy Bears podcast, but I
have to go with the Bears, like this is the
team that all I do is my favorite thing. That
bet is on second year players, right and especially quarterbacks
making that second year jump. And we've seen it time
and time again where it's like guys have all the
tools in the world, they have a bad season, people

(51:24):
leave them for dead, and then the second year something
like Kayleb believe should take that next step. The guy
has all the talent in the world. Now he has
some good coaching, an offensive line, a system. I think
he's going to really thrive in. And again I hope
they get gentry. Like to me, that would be an
insane weapon to add to that team. Have with Kayleb,

(51:45):
bullions from the next five to ten years in that backfield.
And you know, this is a team that me and
Chat talked a Nagenbata last year they were four and
two when they lost a hell Mary game against the Commanders,
like this was a team that was on a trajectory
and we said after they lost, I said, this same
young team, we're gonna find out a lot by the
Chicago team. They're either gonna thrive and you know, bounce

(52:05):
back from this, or they will collapse under their own
weight the rest of the season. And that's what they did.
But the end of the season on such a high
mark like that, I know it sounds stupid. That was
a huge win for green Bay against green Bay and
for Kayleb Williams in my mind going to the offseason
because I think he felt what it could be like
to be a team that should be beating green Bay
at green Bay that can can have these big wins.

(52:28):
So this is a team that I love their offseason.
They're gonna have a last place schedule and I think
it lines up right for them that you know, just
like last year, every's gonna talking about Detroit, every's gonna
be talking about green Bay and last year we had
a lot of people that were coming in on this
Bears team for the excitement. It doesn't feel like that
as we are here in March right there are professionals
like me, you like the Bears, But I'm saying the

(52:49):
general public, I don't turn on Eastpan or FS one
all day, and all they're talking about is the Bears
like they were at this point last year heading into
the draft. So that's a team that I am excited
to buy low on. I'm gonna bet their win total
over I just I love out all lines up for
the year two bump for Kayler Williams and bringing in
such a great offensive mind in Johnson. So it's like

(53:10):
I can't help myself, like this is a team I
always kind of love secretly just because you know, me
and Chad just always kind of love the Bears team.
Obviously for Chad has his reasons, but we admitted to it.
We had a huge whiff on them two years ago
with Justin Fields. This feels totally different than Justin Field's
year two where we fell in love with Justin fields
athleticism in year one, mean chat bet on that upside
and were betting the one hundred and one to win

(53:32):
the Super Bowl. People like that's where we were at
them two years ago. I'm in the same spot now.
It's like I feel like they're better, they're improved. Am
I bet the super Bowl futures? Fuck No, I think
it's like four to one now in most books that
there's no value there at this point. But for them
to shock this division and pull it off, I think
it's a real thing like this is this is gonna

(53:52):
be a legit good team that I don't think enough
people are looking into right now because they're what five
and twelve last year? I get it. It's just to me,
these are the teams I love that. Bet on the
new coach, year two quarterback, whole new offensive line, like
it's it's all lined up there. Chat for this can
take a huge year or two step up in this
Bears team. So that's definite a team just like we

(54:13):
Chris talked about teams we try to ie for that.
No one's really talking about Tampa's the same boat. No
one's talking about eveno the one division last year. I
feel like it's the same thing for the Bears that's
coming year. No one's talking about them enough where I
think they're going to take a major step that people
aren't aware of.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Well, look, I'm glad you said it. I didn't want
to be the one who said when I thought of
this question and I put it in the script. My
answer to this was going to be the Bears because
of Ben Johnson, right like he clearly when he was
with the Lions as the play caller, was comfortable in
these situations that go lean into the analytics and what

(54:48):
the probabilistic thinking and what the percentages is, not on
what the conventional wisdom is. That looks like the safer
play that is going to make you comfortable if you
miss That to me was the answer. I kind of
like Ray, but but it also felt little cliche because
of course, like Ben Johnson, he's the guy. I like

(55:09):
Raybond's answer too. Matt Mitchell, we got to make a note.
I feel like we have to do a future episode
that has focused a lot on the breaking down of
this question and then combining it with will there be
too much examination of rules changes and how it made

(55:31):
coaches think about fourth down and kicking long field goals
versus going forward to them there half of the field
from the impact of the kickoff changes. I want to
unpack that. There's more meat on the bone. Teasing a
future episode, we'll get Raybund back Kerner Stuckey, Nick Giffin,
Simon Little Roundtable, just making a note. People are going

(55:53):
to be excited about that. Giving Matt Mitchell your feedback
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(56:13):
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(56:34):
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