September 11, 2025 • 39 mins
Colin previews the Packers-Commanders game tonight and gives his pick.
The 49ers are riddled with injuries and have to start Mac Jones at QB.
Colin tries to be optimistic about Caleb Williams and the Bears.
Guest: Dianna Russini
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, here we go. It is a Thursday, We
are live, and it is The Herd. Tom Brady will
stop by the show in a couple hours from now.
One hour exactly from now, Greg Cosell stops by. And
I was thinking this morning as we get ready for
Thursday Night Football, our second Thursday Night game. Last Thursday,
(00:47):
it was the Cowboys almost beating the Philadelphia Eagles, the
Super Bowl champs. If ceedee Lamb catches that perfect beatball
by Dak, they do beat them in my opinion. So
tonight we don't get a struggling icon franchise in the
Dallas Cowboys. This Thursday, we get the best franchise in
the NFL arguably and maybe not even arguably in the
(01:09):
last thirty years, the Green Bay Packers, and I want
to talk about that. So the Packers are again, what
else is new at home and favored on a big
national TV game? And you know, I was thinking this morning,
I live close to Green Bay. Now I'll get up
there eventually. But they've dominated the NFL since Brett Farb arrived,
(01:32):
Farvin Rogers twenty five years, fifteen division titles. Now suddenly
the Lions over the last couple of years, new coach,
new GM, new culture. You know, they build that thing
up in the last couple of years. Back to back
division titles. There's a new sheriff in town. No, actually,
you watched Week one. The Lions made a mistake on
(01:54):
coordinator hires. They maybe third to fourth, and green Bay
is back on top. That's the way it always works.
Minnesota's had good years. We always overinflate the Bears' chances. Ooh,
Detroit's really now going to own the future and green
Bays back on top. First of all, they've become the
(02:15):
only NFL franchise that has hit home run, home run,
home run with quarterback. And not only get did they
get far who's a bit of a reclamation project. Rogers
first round fell to him and Jordan Love, but they
didn't have to give up massive draft capital and bought
them out to get them. That was kind of like
Danny Ainge and the Celtics, We're going to rebuild and
still be viable. And yet today and then tonight as
(02:38):
you watch as the league has pivoted to offense, and
franchises like the Bears and the Steelers that are iconic
can't figure out offense. No team in the NFL and
twenty twenty five has more tight end wide receiver talent
on rookie contracts that can all play. And you'll see
it tonight. Since nineteen add it up over thirty years,
(03:02):
the Packers are number one in the NFL in winning
percentage points per game, second in playoff wins, division titles
since the Brett Faarvira one.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Be able to get top done and go one and
on in the North is a you know, the start
we wanted right there. But big picture, I mean it starts,
it all starts with NFC North. So to have a
North team come in here, we got a big, big,
just picture for us right now is you know, super
Bowls down the road, but it all starts with NFC North.
So we got to go out there and you know,
obviously get off to a better start than we did
(03:34):
last year.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Packers tonight in a close one, so you know we do.
We do a lot of predictions on a week to week,
like Blazing five, and I got Colin right and wrong
on Monday. I usually say what I'm about to talk
about for Mondays right and wrong. But big picture predictions
the one that got the most pushback this year. As
I said, I think San Francisco's gonna finish third in
(03:57):
their division. That's the one I got all the pushback on.
And the reason I gave was not because Kyle Shanahan,
He's great. It wasn't because I don't love George Kittle,
Trent Williams and Christian McCaffrey and Fred Warner their Hall
of Fame talent. I said, this is an organization Number one,
they're brittle, and number two. As much as I like
(04:18):
John Lynch, they have missed on too many top picks,
so when the injuries happen, they don't have a reservoir
of depth. And this morning brought perty out three to
five weeks my first NFL Macro prediction that looks right.
So you generally don't start a season with injuries and
get healthier. And this is where Green Bay has flourished.
(04:42):
It's hard to find, especially an offense, a Packer early
draft pick that's been a miss. It's hard to find.
San Francisco gave up two first for Trey Lance miss,
Jake Moody, third round pick, kicker disaster, Javon Kinlaw first
round miss. Even in free agency they went for Javon Hargrove.
(05:03):
That was wasted money. So when you watch the NFC
right now, there are three teams that pass the eye test,
and they all have something in common. The Packers look fast,
young and athletic. The Rams defense does, and the Eagles
on both sides, and the reason being they've nailed the draft.
(05:25):
And that's what worried to me about San Francisco, not
just that they were brittle and a little old, but
that they've missed on so many draft picks. When you
get banged up, this is what you look like going
into New Orleans with a chance to lose to arguably
the first or second worst team in the league. Yeah, now,
brock Perty, who's going to be out. That is a
(05:45):
great draft pick. That is as good a draft pick
as you're going to get. But when you look at
the NFC, Rams defense, packers, offense, eagles both side. It's
nailing the draft. So in this league you get old
and brittle very fast when you start giving away picks,
drafting quarterbacks that can't work, draft kickers in the third round.
(06:09):
That's why. By the way, the Lions last year had
so many injuries, but yet they finished fifteen to two.
Why because they had drafted so well. So the injuries
for the Niners going into Week two, it's unbelievable. Brock Perty,
Brandon Aiyuk, George Kittle, and several players that are game
time decisions. Mac Jones will be the starter, Yes, that
(06:33):
Mac Jones. Here's Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Mag knows how to play the position. He can play
well in the pocket, distributes the ball well so he's
coverage as well, can play fast in there. It's got
a lot of good film from the NFL. With experience
and obviously college tough guy will hang in there and
delivered to the ball where it needs to go.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So Green Bay tonight favored, as they should be. Greg
Cosel will be joining us one hour from now. This
is the part of the Greg co cell appearance for
the next fifteen to twenty weeks that I absolutely love
where he goes deep into all the game film and
tells us what he saw and what he did not.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Hey, what's up, everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
What is Up on Game? You ass along with my
fellow pro bowler TJ.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Huschman Zada and Super Bowl champion Yup, that's right, Plexico Burus.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
With teachable moments.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Listen to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, TJ.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Hutschman, Zada, and Plexico.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcast thro.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Everybody. After the Kleb Williams loss on Monday in a
pretty bad second half is opining on Well, it's not
as bad as you think, or it's absolutely terrible. I
tried to be optimistic. I thought he outplayed JJ McCarthy
for the first two quarters, absolutely and maybe the third.
(08:23):
He got out played in the fourth, the most important quarter, obviously.
But the numbers are not playing the Kleb Williams favor.
I'll give you an example of a couple of them.
So I read this in Yahoo Sports this morning. In
the last take last year and Week one of this year,
(08:45):
Caleb Williams leads every NFL quarterback with fifty two incompletions
due to overthrows, so too much horsepower overthrowing the ball.
Next is Bo Nicks, Holmes, Darnold, Justin, Herbert Stafford. Okay, fine,
there's overthrows when you have a big arm, but it's
the margin. He is so far ahead of even second place.
(09:08):
He's forty eight percent higher in one year, in one
game than Bo Nicks in second. He's also right now
worst in the league in the operational stuff. You gotta
have a good foundation before you build a cool kitchen.
Pre snap penalties they had four eight offensive penalties. Here's
more damning news. A lot of people in Chicago were saying,
(09:31):
you know, it might as well just be justin fields. No,
it's worse. He might as well be Mitch Trubisky. If
you go to the first eighteen starts of Mitch Trubisky
and the first eighteen starts of Caleb Williams, it's identical,
except Caleb gets sacked significantly more. For the radio audience.
(09:52):
Completion percentage is sixty two for both. Passing yards about
two hundred and ten for both. Total touchdowns about twenty
two to twenty three, twenty four for both. Passer rating
mid eighties for both. It's not justin fields, it's Mitch Traubisky.
So and here's another number that's not good. Positive Colin,
(10:14):
it's not working well for me. He completed just sixty
six percent of his throws fourteen of twenty one on
ball six yards or less. Jayden Daniels was eleven of twelve,
so he's missing laps. He leads the league by a
long shot in overthrows. He's the worst in the league operationally.
(10:36):
And they got a m a clever head coach, and
they rebuilt the old line, and they drafted a tight
end out of Michigan with their top pick Dj Moore,
two other receivers, five of their top six picks. The
last two years of an offense. The good news, no
more Brian Flores for a while, but all the numbers
coming out, I'm trying to spin it positively. It's not great.
(10:58):
Here was Nick right yesterday.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
He really struggles with the operation still and the getting
out of the huddle motioning guys a little too late,
like the pre snap stuff. He still looks like a rookie.
And this is year two. I still believe in Caleb
Williams's long term, but I think it is going to
(11:24):
be a much slower process than I had hoped.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I mean listen, short passes, overthrows operation former Bears
comp is not good. And to make it worse, Detroit
just got humiliated in week one at Green Bay. And
what is our rule on this show. Teams with competent
(11:49):
head coaches and quarterbacks that gets humiliated almost always have
a great week of practice and button most of their
problems up. So it's not like you're facing an overconfident
Lions team. You're facing a Lions team that is like
in crisis mode. So they're gonna have an incredible week
of practice. And Jared Goff at least has the operational
(12:11):
stuff down. Here's j Mack with the news. Turn on
the news.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
This is the herd Line News Conle.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Let's get started with Aaron Rodgers, the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback. Hey,
he had a good game, so we'll continue to talk
about him. However, he is playing the Seahawks this week.
It's gonna be tough. Rogers spoke about that Jets performance
and said there was one area he hopes to improve.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
I don't think I was moving that well, so I
think I ran kind of into into at least one
to two sacks. So I got to get do a
better job. But using my legs. You know, I might
be old, but I still feel like I could move
around pretty good. And I wasn't moving the way I
usually like the moves.
Speaker 9 (12:50):
Why do you think you weren't moving around the same.
Was it that's the kurse game action?
Speaker 8 (12:54):
Or I was a little tight?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
The tight He's honest about it. I appreciate that.
Speaker 9 (13:00):
A little tight.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Come on, well, he's all I think he's he can't
move anyway. He's not gonna suddenly be.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
Spry in the pocket. Colin, come on, Hey, I'm just
telling you. I got into some debates yesterday with people
like the gambling communities torn on this one. Steelers are Seahawks,
and I have planted my flag on the Seattle side here.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
I'm just having enough.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I like Seattle, it's not it's not one of my
favorite bets. Yeah, I'm not planning my flag Pittsburgh get home.
I think the one thing that you looked at Pittsburgh
is the Arthur Smith Aaron Rodgers combo I think was
very very effective. They didn't run the ball particularly well.
He didn't move the defense as questions, but special teams
(13:41):
and Aaron's comfort level eye test that was not They
were getting plays in early. Aaron had enough time. That
part was very very promising. Yeah, we need a Seahawks win.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
I do not need a two and oh Aaron Rodgers
and then us having to talk about this guy every day.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
He's washed. I'm sorry.
Speaker 9 (13:58):
It was one gig.
Speaker 7 (13:59):
Next movie on Big Game on Fox.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Oh boy, this is a big one.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
Ben Johnson, your guy heads back to Detroit to take
on the Lions. We're from Dan Campbell yesterday about their friendship.
Well I'm on Ross Saint Brown talked about what he
expects the Lions fans to do when Ben Johnson walks
in the building.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
As soon as Ben walks in there we're booing him.
I don't give a all him. Yeah, he said it's
gonna be lit. I'm not gonna lie. I'm here for
it for sure. I already know Ben what.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I just want to be a fly on the wall
in histing, Like, how is he as a head coach?
Speaker 7 (14:32):
Like that?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Is not you? Dog? Like? I know you?
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Like?
Speaker 10 (14:35):
Stop acting like this, man, Bro, I want to be
a fly on the wall for one meeting, just once.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Noah, Bro, you don't Ben Now, Bro, it's all turn Bro,
it's your turn up. Y'all got him? Man? I would
say this, yeah, because he turned down a job earlier.
I can see Detroit fans saying, dude, it was pretty
good here. You bailed. You know, it's funny because Ben
had more than one job opening the fact that he
(15:03):
chose Chicago. He didn't choose it because of great ownership.
He didn't choose it because the roster was perfect. Why
did he choose this job? Is it? Williams? That's right?
So it's really interesting when anybody choose the job, it's
usually salary for most people. That wasn't it. He would
have been paid big money everywhere, So why did Ben
Johnson take it? He didn't take it because he trusted
(15:26):
the GM, or it was the owners, or it was
the historic relevance, or they had great momentum, or the
roster was complete. He chose it for Caleb. So if
you chose a job for a reason, you're like, Okay,
I chose the job because I love the CEO of
a company. And you get there and the CEO leads,
You're like, uh uh. So my takeaway is this is
(15:48):
unsettling for Ben Johnson because the reason he came and
Nate in camp we're going to resign Tyson bage it
to a big contract. It's pretty unsettling.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
I mean, I think makes sense to say he picked
it for Caleb, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
There's such a disconnect now between the two.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
And I'm sorry Bears fans, that's true, there is a disconnect.
What if there are other reasons we don't know about
his wife maybe loves Chicago or is from there, or
his dad is from Chicago. I don't he may have
a connection to the city to say he picked it
for Caleb and then didn't do his homework. Because Colin,
you that Tyler Dunn story, Like, if you read that,
would you want to go coach Caleb Williams walking away
(16:27):
from coaches as a big bomb him.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Are you sure, well, it's interest because Ben was the
I mean Harrball a couple of years ago was the
number one candidate. Yeah, I think this year it was
Mike Frabel and Ben Johnson were the two great candidates.
Rabel was going to go back to New England. Jets
looked at him, but it was going to be New
I mean, if I could choose Robert Kraft or the Jets,
I'd choose Robert Kraft and Drake May. So Frabel was
going to go to New England pretty early. So you know,
(16:54):
I don't know. I said before, they're very rarely. Like
Matt Floor was lucky he got a job in Green
Bay and had Aaron Rodgers later prime, Mike McCarthy got Dack.
Those are like way better than that Nick Seriani got.
You know Howie Roseman. Five out of six head coaching
jobs come with a major problem, and Chicago's is upstairs historically,
(17:20):
So you didn't think quarterback was the issue. You thought
you could solve him. Most coaches have enough of an
ego they think they can solve the problems. But it's
that's why it's so fascinating.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
I'll just say this, I'm on the Lions this week.
I like him at four and a half five, it's
up to six now, a lot of money coming in
on Detroit. If somehow the Lions lose this game and
are now zero to two, Colin, I think you can
officially start like, hey, you know, maybe Dan Campbell wasn't
a genius all these years. Maybe it was Aaron Glenn
and Ben Johnson, or hell, even the Jets new Oc
(17:52):
I'll butcher his last name ten or something or other,
but maybe it was all those guys and not Dan Campbell.
I think there's some low key pressure on Detroit to
win this game, and they.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Better look good, Colin.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
If they don't, I'm just telling you, the Lions could
be the show opener on Monday for losing the Caleb
Final story. New York Giants rough Week one and there
was this encounter on the sideline between Brian Dable and
Malik Neighbors. Neighbors iced up there with the necklace popping
off to his coach and then refused a high five.
Look at the video and listen, Neighbors can say what
(18:24):
he wants and here he is downplaying the interaction.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But I don't know.
Speaker 9 (18:27):
My eyes don't lie.
Speaker 10 (18:29):
I was trying to get the offense going. I was
trying to get people to let's get rolled in. You know,
the lights was on, the game was on. You know,
it's something to play. I feel like they just got
pushed pushed over, you know, and everybody was talking about
just how just how it was attitude and stuff like that.
It's just I got an NBAF, I got a natural phase.
Speaker 7 (18:49):
This is what it is.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, yeah, I like that. That's funny.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
But Colin, you can't deny it. He looks at his
coach and basically shout at him, and obviously they were upset.
Russell Wilson was vomiting all over himself.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Look at it. Well on Brian's a lot. I think
Brian's a really good coach. But he's intense. I mean
he he's got more of a coordinator mindset, Like he's
very emotional. You know a lot of the great coaches,
like Andy Reid's not emotional on the sideline. Bill Belichick
was never emotional. I mean, Kyle Shanahan's not overly emotional
(19:24):
on the sideline. Most Sean mcdermot's not overly emotional. Most
head coaches are not. I would say day Bowl is
on a short list of the most emotional coaches on
the sideline, and that doesn't always play in his favor.
I mean he gets worked up.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I mean listen, by the.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
Way, we're in a lying era where people just say
whatever they want. Like Sarkesian took to the podium and
was like, yeah, there's nothing to see here, with urts
like come on, stop, don't lie to me, Brian Dabele,
like neighbors, there was something there. It'd be like Tyreek
Hill and I think we may talk.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
About him later.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
Like he's on the sideline complaining and then he's trying
to like brush it off like his guys. The video
footage doesn't lie. Something is clearly up. Just be honest
with us.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
No uh Jmack with the news, Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by the line news. Sometimes you know,
in the NFL, we all know this. It's really a
quarterback one a head coach too. It's a quarterback coach league.
GM's important. So it was a left tackle and an
edge rusher, but it's mostly a quarterback and the head
(20:28):
coach league, and it probably has been longer than we admit.
I mean, if you go back to you know, you
go back to Elway and Shanahan and Aikman and Jimmy
Johnson and Brad Shawn, Chuck Noll and Fouts and Eric Coriel,
you know, basically the great quarterbacks of all time Breeze
and Sean Paytony've always had a great coach Maholmes and
Andy Reid, Belichick and Brady. Joe Gibbs is an outlier
(20:51):
winning with three different quarterbacks. But I'm seeing something that
was a New England problem during the dynasty. So what
is the one thing during the dynasty? Because New England
did a lot right. They had the best coach, they
had the best quarterback. They didn't always lead the league
in sacks, but they got consistent pressure. They had Dante
(21:12):
Scarnekia on the offensive line, They always had a capable
run games. What was the one position they were bailing
water a lot wide receiver? And the sense was, well,
they just can't draft wide receiver. I have a take
that Brady was part of the issue, because it's not
(21:34):
like they didn't have good receivers. But did you notice
who worked with Brady Wes Welker already in the league,
Randy Moss already in the league. Julian Edelman year four
had played quarterback Gronk as he aged. Why is that?
Because my take was Tom was so precise and so
(21:58):
obsessed and so smart that you get wide receivers come
in with a little ego, a little distracted. Tom didn't
have time for him, and by year two the organization
had moved off people. Look at what's happening in Kansas City?
Are you noticing this? In two thousand Night look at
their first and second round skill picks twenty nineteen McCole Hardman,
(22:19):
and they have a good GM in Brett Viach, way
above average, one of the top five gms in the
league twenty twenty, Clyde Edwards, Hilaire twenty twenty two, Sky
Moore twenty twenty three, Rashi Rice twenty twenty four, Xavior
Worthy worthies more of a gadget player than a volume
guy and not a lot of hits. It's starting to
feel like Brady in New England and Steph Curry in
(22:42):
Golden State. When you have these high functioning, super smart
veterans that the offense is built around. I mean, how
many young guys did the Warriors draft and they don't work?
How many young receivers did the Patriots draft and they
didn't work? Look at Kansas City? Who works In Kansas City?
(23:06):
They bring back old Juju Smith Schuster, he works every time,
and old Travis Kelcey and old Kareem Hunt the old guys.
So my takeaway is between Andy Reid and Mahomes like
Steph and the Warriors are Brady and Josh McDaniels. It's
not easy for young guys to break in. They need
(23:29):
an obsessiveness, a maturity. I mean again, go back to
Tom Brady. It was Dion Branch who they brought back again,
and then Randy Moss, and then Wes Welker and then
the coach's son who played quarterback in college, Julian Edelman.
So that's why I say, when you look at Kansas
City right now, obviously there's going to be potentially AJ
(23:59):
Brown on the market, Tyreek Hill in the market. Usually
I'm not great at predicting acquisitions, but tyreek Hill a veteran,
AJ Brown a veteran. Could I see New England going
after him? Now? I think AJ Brown to New England
with Rabel's a better fit. They really need a number one.
But if you look at Kansas City's regression, it is
(24:20):
starting to feel like Steph Ann Brady struggling to implement
young people with a smart coach Belichick and Steve Kern
and Andy Reid and a very meticulous veteran quarterback. For
the record, when Lebron went to Miami, who do you
want to play with? Old d Wade, old Chris Bosh
or older? He went to Cleveland, he didn't want to
(24:42):
play with Andrew Wiggins. He wanted to get Kevin Love
in the building. You know. When he went to the Lakers,
Anthony Davis had been in the league. He wasn't a
fan of Kyle Kuzma. He wasn't a fan of Lonzo Ball.
These old, high functioning players with incredibly high standards. I mean,
Lebron's one of the smartest players. Mahomes, Brady, Steph Curry,
(25:03):
they struggle. They often struggle with young teammates. So it's
interesting when I'm sitting there looking for Brett Veach, I'd
probably get Tyreek killing AJ Brown. I'd probably get their
agents on the phone. I know those will work. I
know those guys will work. I would keep your eye
keep your eye on AJ Brown in New England. They
(25:24):
need a one. By the way, they're a very young team.
They could use some veteran leadership or veteran presence in
the locker room with AJ Brown. Just a thought. Diana
Russini around the corner, Greg Cosell. Top of the hour.
Tom Brady stops by as well. We're live. It's the Hurt.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
All sorts of things to talk about. Greg Cosel started
next hour. Diana Russini is joining us, the athletics senior
NFL insider is joining us, and we are grateful for that.
On a Thursday. So let's start with the Brock party
situation with Mac Jones. Now, remember Shanahan liked mac Jones
at a college and they went and got him in Jacksonville.
So that's not the issue. He likes this quarterback, but
(26:11):
the Brock pretty stuff, and he's been dinged up toes, elbows, shoulders.
I mean yesterday it was oh no, it's going to
be five weeks. Like what are you hearing in terms
of timeline in return, Yeah.
Speaker 9 (26:23):
It's definitely a form of turf toe.
Speaker 11 (26:25):
Apparently there's different definitions of it. But he's expected to
miss at least two games. I was not told that
it would be up to five. Of course, it could
always be. It's all based on that recovery. But it
was a bit of a surprise injury on Monday when
that popped up. And I can tell you know, it's
interesting you talk about insiders and chatter around the league.
(26:47):
I talked to the Saints on Monday, and they already
knew about it. They were already prepping for mac Jones.
So we're spreading around the league quickly. And then of
course Kyle Shanahan came out and spoke to the media publicly.
And you know, he's always been very transparent about what's
going on with his team in terms of injuries. He's
probably the best at it in football. But you know,
(27:08):
he's dealing with the shoulder. But the foot is excuse me,
the toe is the issue. So we'll see it and Colin.
Speaker 9 (27:14):
We've we've seen it before.
Speaker 11 (27:15):
We've seen quarterbacks get shot up before, you know, before games.
Speaker 9 (27:20):
It's pain.
Speaker 11 (27:21):
But also you got to look at the forty nine
ers situation, right now, George Kittle is on IR. Christian
McCaffrey was dealing obviously with a little bit of that
calf situation last week. The injury bug is swarming them again,
and it's only you know, week two here, So I
think the fact that it's so early in the season
is at least keeping them calm there.
Speaker 9 (27:41):
This isn't ideal, you know.
Speaker 11 (27:43):
I someone in football asked me, you know, you've been
around the Niners a lot, You've seen them in training camp.
You know what do they do different? It seems that
injuries hit them all the time, and I don't I
don't have an answer, Like, I don't know why it's
the forty nine ers, but lately it just seems like
they're the ones dealing with a lot of situations.
Speaker 9 (28:02):
A quarterback that just got paid a boatload of money.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, Well, the Niners and the Ravens have had injuries
over the last five years, and they're two of the
most physical run games. So maybe some of it's that
they have harder practices. And I want to pivot to
this though, there is something with the Chargers. Excuse me,
if the Chiefs lose at home to the Eagles, they're
ower and two, it's not in desperation time, but the
numbers drop down to only twelve percent of oh to
(28:25):
two teams make the playoffs. Okay, so my take is
AJ Brown one target in Week one, Tyreek Hill in Miami,
I think is unsolvable and they have a wide receiver
issue is I mean, it seems to me Howie Roseman
gets Tank bigsby a wide receiver before the season, they
went and got dots in last year when the AJ
(28:47):
drama was heating up. I feel like Howie Roseman is
creating depth in the offense by last year to today,
knowing he may have to move Aj Brown. So Aj Brown,
I'm Tyreek Hill in the Chiefs. Can I connect the
dots at all?
Speaker 8 (29:03):
There?
Speaker 9 (29:04):
It's a cute idea.
Speaker 11 (29:05):
I don't necessarily think it's true, though, I know what
you're thinking.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
Right, So Howie moves with purpose.
Speaker 11 (29:11):
I think he's proven that, right, nine trades in twenty
twenty five, Right, he's done that, And every afternoon I
feel like we're reporting something new and he's doing it
with positions that I didn't even know there was a
need for, you know, in the latest trade that he
made recently, He's never worried about winning the trade either.
I think that's important to state, right because I've had
(29:33):
a lot of conversations of the years with organizations who
are obsessed with winning the headline the next day, and
we both know how that works out.
Speaker 9 (29:40):
It doesn't matter, nobody cares. It's are you.
Speaker 11 (29:43):
Able to get the players immediately step in and make
a difference and put your team in a position to win.
Now that being said, I know there were teams calling
about AJ Brown during the off season. Okay, so they
the teams are told they're not moving AJ okay, And
it wasn't like a hey, let's keep talking, is.
Speaker 9 (30:00):
A no thanks? This is AJ Brown.
Speaker 11 (30:03):
He's one of the top five wide receivers in football,
top three. We're not moving him. I have a hard
time imagining Howie Roseman moving him. Tyreek Hill, different situation.
Are they moving Tyreek Hill right now?
Speaker 9 (30:15):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 11 (30:16):
TUA needs him, Mike McDaniel needs him. This offense needs
Tyreek Hill. But depending on what happens come October, right
before the trade deadline, the first week in November, all right,
then we'll talk about that because things will possibly change there.
But I think in terms of these Ace receivers. Both teams,
both offenses need them right now.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So I know it's early, but outside of Miami, the
New York Giants were the toughest watch and next year's
quarterback draft class looks like there's four minimum five to
six potential first round quarterbacks. So my opinion would be,
you better figure out if Jackson Dark can play, you
(31:02):
better figure it out. And I made the argument, I
think Monday or Tuesday, if the Giants trail fourteen to
nothing in half and have four three and outs, you're
going to start losing the locker room. And now, now,
if they go to Dallas and they play well, all
bets are off and Russell buys himself time. But when
the Giants say Russell is quarterback one, do you buy it?
(31:25):
What's the runway look like here?
Speaker 9 (31:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (31:28):
I did buy it because I was around them and
the offense looked good with Russell in training camp, and
the coaching staff felt good. This wasn't a scenario where
remember when Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes was there, and
remember all the chatter about Patrick at practice.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
It was like you got to see this kid, like,
I think he.
Speaker 11 (31:47):
May play, right, Look, I think Jackson Dark has impressed.
There is no doubt. I think his personality, his fiery energy,
he's understanding of Brian.
Speaker 9 (32:00):
I think they're a wonderful Matt. I think they're a
perfect match. In fact, I.
Speaker 11 (32:04):
Just think for the way training camp went, they're trying
to get Jackson Dart as prepared as possible and Russell
Wilson is able to do the job from there, you know,
from from their perspective right now, he can run the
offense they're looking for. They're of course missing their left tackle.
Right this is the biggest part of this story. Why
are you going to roll out Jackson Dart if you're
(32:26):
not going to give him the best protection because he's
just gonna get hit and it's not gonna look good.
Speaker 9 (32:29):
He's not even gonna be able to run the offense.
Speaker 11 (32:31):
Just has Daniel Jones right look at him and Indy,
but he's got some protection. Uh you know, he lights
it up week one. So look, I think Jet we're
going to see Jackson dark Collin. That is no doubt
we're going to see them, especially if Russell Wilson continues
to play.
Speaker 9 (32:43):
Like whatever that was. And I have to tell you
I was a little surprised. Look We've had a million
conversations on the show.
Speaker 11 (32:49):
Together about Russell Wilson, whether it was in Denver and
Pittsburgh last year, but there were times where we did
see good things and I understand what New York was
seeing out of Russ. They love that qu quarterback room.
They love putting Jackson Dart around, Jaenis around Russell. Apparently
it's a type of quarterback room of let's get the
young guy ready, which which you know is a good
(33:09):
way to be knowing that he's going to play.
Speaker 9 (33:12):
It's just going to be a matter of when.
Speaker 11 (33:13):
And Colin, whenever we talk about this stuff, it's not
just in a vacuum of who's going to be the
best quarterback out there. You have to count the fact
that Brian Dable is on the hot seat, Joe Shane
is on the hot seat. John Merrick came out last
year and it pained him to bring these guys back
because he didn't want change. So you have to imagine
some of this is a factor in when you pull
(33:34):
the trigger and say, because look, Brian Dabele calls in
Jackson Dart at the second half against the Dallas Cowboys
because they.
Speaker 9 (33:41):
Need a spark.
Speaker 11 (33:42):
Any bombs or they have to stick with him who
knows what happens, right, So I think all of this
you have to take into consideration for a team in
the last ten years, you know, is one of the
most losing organizations, you know, outside the Jags, which is
hard to It's hard to think of that, right because
you think Giants, and you think that they've had success,
(34:04):
but it was so long ago at this point, you know,
and then you just take a look at the body
of work with Brian Deable there and outside of just
that first season, it's just not great.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah. Diana Rassini, senior NFL insider of The Athletic got
a podcast too. It crushes good senior.
Speaker 11 (34:21):
Thanks yeah, Colin. Check out my column too on the Athletic.
I drop it at ten am Eastern on Saturdays.
Speaker 9 (34:26):
I love.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
It's my favorite thing I do, just right about all
the stuff going on in football.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I will, we will thank thanks love you guys. Yeah,
all right, Greg co Sell top of the hour. You know,
J Mackett, I want to throw this up again. So
I was saying, you know, I think you and I
both would rather be positive than negative, especially with young
quarterbacks because when you watch Cam Ward play against Denver,
it's exciting. Like I was like, oh, we got another team.
(34:53):
I mean they've had Marcus Marioti and you know the
late Steve McNair. I mean they've they've had guys that
can move the change. Ryan Tannehill had a couple of
good years. But you watch cam Ward and it was like,
oh my, I think I think Tennessee has a chance
to upset the Rams this weekend. So people will be
watching this game now because you know the Rams are,
you know, fairly high profile. Stafford McVeigh. But I remember
(35:16):
saying this on the air. I didn't think. I was
not a fan of Mitch Trubisky as a draft pick.
I've told the story. Greg Cosell told me to watch
Mitch Trubisky his last year at North Carolina. He goes,
he's going to get drafted, He's moving up the board.
What do you think. I was in Hawaii with my family.
I watched and I texted Greg Cosell. I'm like, I
don't get it. Bald dies at twenty five yards. He's
(35:37):
kind of athletic. I don't see it. Blah blah blah.
But I always defended Matt Nagy, the head coach, and
I said time out. Stafford, Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rodgers
were in their prime in that division, and Trubisky twice
got to the playoffs with Matt Naggy. So I'm like,
I don't like Trubisky, but I think Matt Naggi can coach.
(35:58):
But when I put those numbers out, we can put
a up again. Through the first eighteen starts of Caleb
Williams and Mitch Trubisky, they are, outside of sacks, the
same player as athletic, but you don't trust their accuracy
(36:18):
on big throws. I mean, it's in dispute. And by
the way, I've only got one game of Ben Johnson,
give me five to six more. But I mean, when
I looked at those numbers this morning the staff handed
me those numbers, I was like, forget Justin Field's come.
Speaker 7 (36:32):
I mean, listen, some of that is that cheery picked maybe,
but you're right, this is alarming. I mean, Maserati, Mitch, like,
I know you said he got to the playoffs twice. Listen,
he never really won from the pocket.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
That's right.
Speaker 9 (36:44):
He's a run around guy. That was the era when
everybody wanted running.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Quarterback, and I think we got to look at like
a guy like Kim Ward, like he is mobile, but man,
he can win from the pocket.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I like him a lot.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
And there's another guy starting this week, Matt Jones for
the for the forty nine ers. Remember I'm in college,
but I was like, oh, he's dominant from the pocket,
but he's kind of a statue. He's like slow, So
I didn't personally like him. And you're seeing now he's
getting a shot with the Niners. So this idea of
having a running quarterback is great. But number one, they've
got a process and win from the pocket. And I
(37:16):
haven't seen that from Caleb yet. I'm not saying we won't.
I just haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well, it's what Nick Right and I talked about yesterday.
You have to be operationally buttoned up, like I thought.
Bone Nicks and Sean Payton took the blame on this.
Bone Nicks operationally for Denver in Week one did not
look It looked like he was rushing everything. And my
take Monday was, I think they put way too much
on his plate. They have not put that much stuff
(37:45):
on the plate of Caleb Williams. I mean, Sean Payton
has a legendary reputation of just stacking. I mean, just
if he thinks you can learn it. Remember, he and
Russell Wilson had a problem because Russell didn't want to
wear the armband. He didn't want to wear that, and
Shawn's yet wear it, and Russell didn't like. You know
why didn't Russell want to wear it. Probably because it
looks like he doesn't know the play. I don't know,
(38:06):
but he pushed back and Sean's like, wear it, so
and Brady wore it. I don't have a problem with it.
But if you can't get the nuts and bolts and
the operation down, it doesn't matter, you know. You know what,
when I watched Caleb in that first drive, it was
very much Cam Newton. Cam Newton was jaw droppingly talented,
(38:27):
and I watched that Roma Dunze throw and he ran
for a touchdown. I said, that's Cam. Like, Cam was
like the best college quarterback I've seen, maybe ever in
terms of total dominance, and Caleb had a lot of that.
But man, there's a reason that Cam never had back
to back winning seasons as mechanics and operations and self
indulgence and distraction, and this this position is so hard,
(38:50):
and there are so many boxes to check.
Speaker 7 (38:52):
And you know what the Lions want to do. They're
gonna be blitzing Caleb heavily. Get him off the spot,
get him running around like a chicken with his head
cut off, and let him make stakes.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Greg coach Shell Our two bits to hurt
Speaker 3 (39:06):
M
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, here we go. It is a Thursday, We
are live, and it is The Herd. Tom Brady will
stop by the show in a couple hours from now.
One hour exactly from now, Greg Cosell stops by. And
I was thinking this morning as we get ready for
Thursday Night Football, our second Thursday Night game. Last Thursday,
(00:47):
it was the Cowboys almost beating the Philadelphia Eagles, the
Super Bowl champs. If ceedee Lamb catches that perfect beatball
by Dak, they do beat them in my opinion. So
tonight we don't get a struggling icon franchise in the
Dallas Cowboys. This Thursday, we get the best franchise in
the NFL arguably and maybe not even arguably in the
(01:09):
last thirty years, the Green Bay Packers, and I want
to talk about that. So the Packers are again, what
else is new at home and favored on a big
national TV game? And you know, I was thinking this morning,
I live close to Green Bay. Now I'll get up
there eventually. But they've dominated the NFL since Brett Farb arrived,
(01:32):
Farvin Rogers twenty five years, fifteen division titles. Now suddenly
the Lions over the last couple of years, new coach,
new GM, new culture. You know, they build that thing
up in the last couple of years. Back to back
division titles. There's a new sheriff in town. No, actually,
you watched Week one. The Lions made a mistake on
(01:54):
coordinator hires. They maybe third to fourth, and green Bay
is back on top. That's the way it always works.
Minnesota's had good years. We always overinflate the Bears' chances. Ooh,
Detroit's really now going to own the future and green
Bays back on top. First of all, they've become the
(02:15):
only NFL franchise that has hit home run, home run,
home run with quarterback. And not only get did they
get far who's a bit of a reclamation project. Rogers
first round fell to him and Jordan Love, but they
didn't have to give up massive draft capital and bought
them out to get them. That was kind of like
Danny Ainge and the Celtics, We're going to rebuild and
still be viable. And yet today and then tonight as
(02:38):
you watch as the league has pivoted to offense, and
franchises like the Bears and the Steelers that are iconic
can't figure out offense. No team in the NFL and
twenty twenty five has more tight end wide receiver talent
on rookie contracts that can all play. And you'll see
it tonight. Since nineteen add it up over thirty years,
(03:02):
the Packers are number one in the NFL in winning
percentage points per game, second in playoff wins, division titles
since the Brett Faarvira one.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Be able to get top done and go one and
on in the North is a you know, the start
we wanted right there. But big picture, I mean it starts,
it all starts with NFC North. So to have a
North team come in here, we got a big, big,
just picture for us right now is you know, super
Bowls down the road, but it all starts with NFC North.
So we got to go out there and you know,
obviously get off to a better start than we did
(03:34):
last year.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Packers tonight in a close one, so you know we do.
We do a lot of predictions on a week to week,
like Blazing five, and I got Colin right and wrong
on Monday. I usually say what I'm about to talk
about for Mondays right and wrong. But big picture predictions
the one that got the most pushback this year. As
I said, I think San Francisco's gonna finish third in
(03:57):
their division. That's the one I got all the pushback on.
And the reason I gave was not because Kyle Shanahan,
He's great. It wasn't because I don't love George Kittle,
Trent Williams and Christian McCaffrey and Fred Warner their Hall
of Fame talent. I said, this is an organization Number one,
they're brittle, and number two. As much as I like
(04:18):
John Lynch, they have missed on too many top picks,
so when the injuries happen, they don't have a reservoir
of depth. And this morning brought perty out three to
five weeks my first NFL Macro prediction that looks right.
So you generally don't start a season with injuries and
get healthier. And this is where Green Bay has flourished.
(04:42):
It's hard to find, especially an offense, a Packer early
draft pick that's been a miss. It's hard to find.
San Francisco gave up two first for Trey Lance miss,
Jake Moody, third round pick, kicker disaster, Javon Kinlaw first
round miss. Even in free agency they went for Javon Hargrove.
(05:03):
That was wasted money. So when you watch the NFC
right now, there are three teams that pass the eye test,
and they all have something in common. The Packers look fast,
young and athletic. The Rams defense does, and the Eagles
on both sides, and the reason being they've nailed the draft.
(05:25):
And that's what worried to me about San Francisco, not
just that they were brittle and a little old, but
that they've missed on so many draft picks. When you
get banged up, this is what you look like going
into New Orleans with a chance to lose to arguably
the first or second worst team in the league. Yeah, now,
brock Perty, who's going to be out. That is a
(05:45):
great draft pick. That is as good a draft pick
as you're going to get. But when you look at
the NFC, Rams defense, packers, offense, eagles both side. It's
nailing the draft. So in this league you get old
and brittle very fast when you start giving away picks,
drafting quarterbacks that can't work, draft kickers in the third round.
(06:09):
That's why. By the way, the Lions last year had
so many injuries, but yet they finished fifteen to two.
Why because they had drafted so well. So the injuries
for the Niners going into Week two, it's unbelievable. Brock Perty,
Brandon Aiyuk, George Kittle, and several players that are game
time decisions. Mac Jones will be the starter, Yes, that
(06:33):
Mac Jones. Here's Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Mag knows how to play the position. He can play
well in the pocket, distributes the ball well so he's
coverage as well, can play fast in there. It's got
a lot of good film from the NFL. With experience
and obviously college tough guy will hang in there and
delivered to the ball where it needs to go.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
So Green Bay tonight favored, as they should be. Greg
Cosel will be joining us one hour from now. This
is the part of the Greg co cell appearance for
the next fifteen to twenty weeks that I absolutely love
where he goes deep into all the game film and
tells us what he saw and what he did not.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Hey, what's up, everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
What is Up on Game? You ass along with my
fellow pro bowler TJ.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Huschman Zada and Super Bowl champion Yup, that's right, Plexico Burus.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
With teachable moments.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Listen to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, TJ.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Hutschman, Zada, and Plexico.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
get your podcast thro.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Everybody. After the Kleb Williams loss on Monday in a
pretty bad second half is opining on Well, it's not
as bad as you think, or it's absolutely terrible. I
tried to be optimistic. I thought he outplayed JJ McCarthy
for the first two quarters, absolutely and maybe the third.
(08:23):
He got out played in the fourth, the most important quarter, obviously.
But the numbers are not playing the Kleb Williams favor.
I'll give you an example of a couple of them.
So I read this in Yahoo Sports this morning. In
the last take last year and Week one of this year,
(08:45):
Caleb Williams leads every NFL quarterback with fifty two incompletions
due to overthrows, so too much horsepower overthrowing the ball.
Next is Bo Nicks, Holmes, Darnold, Justin, Herbert Stafford. Okay, fine,
there's overthrows when you have a big arm, but it's
the margin. He is so far ahead of even second place.
(09:08):
He's forty eight percent higher in one year, in one
game than Bo Nicks in second. He's also right now
worst in the league in the operational stuff. You gotta
have a good foundation before you build a cool kitchen.
Pre snap penalties they had four eight offensive penalties. Here's
more damning news. A lot of people in Chicago were saying,
(09:31):
you know, it might as well just be justin fields. No,
it's worse. He might as well be Mitch Trubisky. If
you go to the first eighteen starts of Mitch Trubisky
and the first eighteen starts of Caleb Williams, it's identical,
except Caleb gets sacked significantly more. For the radio audience.
(09:52):
Completion percentage is sixty two for both. Passing yards about
two hundred and ten for both. Total touchdowns about twenty
two to twenty three, twenty four for both. Passer rating
mid eighties for both. It's not justin fields, it's Mitch Traubisky.
So and here's another number that's not good. Positive Colin,
(10:14):
it's not working well for me. He completed just sixty
six percent of his throws fourteen of twenty one on
ball six yards or less. Jayden Daniels was eleven of twelve,
so he's missing laps. He leads the league by a
long shot in overthrows. He's the worst in the league operationally.
(10:36):
And they got a m a clever head coach, and
they rebuilt the old line, and they drafted a tight
end out of Michigan with their top pick Dj Moore,
two other receivers, five of their top six picks. The
last two years of an offense. The good news, no
more Brian Flores for a while, but all the numbers
coming out, I'm trying to spin it positively. It's not great.
(10:58):
Here was Nick right yesterday.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
He really struggles with the operation still and the getting
out of the huddle motioning guys a little too late,
like the pre snap stuff. He still looks like a rookie.
And this is year two. I still believe in Caleb
Williams's long term, but I think it is going to
(11:24):
be a much slower process than I had hoped.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I mean listen, short passes, overthrows operation former Bears
comp is not good. And to make it worse, Detroit
just got humiliated in week one at Green Bay. And
what is our rule on this show. Teams with competent
(11:49):
head coaches and quarterbacks that gets humiliated almost always have
a great week of practice and button most of their
problems up. So it's not like you're facing an overconfident
Lions team. You're facing a Lions team that is like
in crisis mode. So they're gonna have an incredible week
of practice. And Jared Goff at least has the operational
(12:11):
stuff down. Here's j Mack with the news. Turn on
the news.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
This is the herd Line News Conle.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Let's get started with Aaron Rodgers, the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback. Hey,
he had a good game, so we'll continue to talk
about him. However, he is playing the Seahawks this week.
It's gonna be tough. Rogers spoke about that Jets performance
and said there was one area he hopes to improve.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
I don't think I was moving that well, so I
think I ran kind of into into at least one
to two sacks. So I got to get do a
better job. But using my legs. You know, I might
be old, but I still feel like I could move
around pretty good. And I wasn't moving the way I
usually like the moves.
Speaker 9 (12:50):
Why do you think you weren't moving around the same.
Was it that's the kurse game action?
Speaker 8 (12:54):
Or I was a little tight?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
The tight He's honest about it. I appreciate that.
Speaker 9 (13:00):
A little tight.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Come on, well, he's all I think he's he can't
move anyway. He's not gonna suddenly be.
Speaker 7 (13:06):
Spry in the pocket. Colin, come on, Hey, I'm just
telling you. I got into some debates yesterday with people
like the gambling communities torn on this one. Steelers are Seahawks,
and I have planted my flag on the Seattle side here.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
I'm just having enough.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I like Seattle, it's not it's not one of my
favorite bets. Yeah, I'm not planning my flag Pittsburgh get home.
I think the one thing that you looked at Pittsburgh
is the Arthur Smith Aaron Rodgers combo I think was
very very effective. They didn't run the ball particularly well.
He didn't move the defense as questions, but special teams
(13:41):
and Aaron's comfort level eye test that was not They
were getting plays in early. Aaron had enough time. That
part was very very promising. Yeah, we need a Seahawks win.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
I do not need a two and oh Aaron Rodgers
and then us having to talk about this guy every day.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
He's washed. I'm sorry.
Speaker 9 (13:58):
It was one gig.
Speaker 7 (13:59):
Next movie on Big Game on Fox.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Oh boy, this is a big one.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
Ben Johnson, your guy heads back to Detroit to take
on the Lions. We're from Dan Campbell yesterday about their friendship.
Well I'm on Ross Saint Brown talked about what he
expects the Lions fans to do when Ben Johnson walks
in the building.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
As soon as Ben walks in there we're booing him.
I don't give a all him. Yeah, he said it's
gonna be lit. I'm not gonna lie. I'm here for
it for sure. I already know Ben what.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I just want to be a fly on the wall
in histing, Like, how is he as a head coach?
Speaker 7 (14:32):
Like that?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Is not you? Dog? Like? I know you?
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Like?
Speaker 10 (14:35):
Stop acting like this, man, Bro, I want to be
a fly on the wall for one meeting, just once.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Noah, Bro, you don't Ben Now, Bro, it's all turn Bro,
it's your turn up. Y'all got him? Man? I would
say this, yeah, because he turned down a job earlier.
I can see Detroit fans saying, dude, it was pretty
good here. You bailed. You know, it's funny because Ben
had more than one job opening the fact that he
(15:03):
chose Chicago. He didn't choose it because of great ownership.
He didn't choose it because the roster was perfect. Why
did he choose this job? Is it? Williams? That's right?
So it's really interesting when anybody choose the job, it's
usually salary for most people. That wasn't it. He would
have been paid big money everywhere, So why did Ben
Johnson take it? He didn't take it because he trusted
(15:26):
the GM, or it was the owners, or it was
the historic relevance, or they had great momentum, or the
roster was complete. He chose it for Caleb. So if
you chose a job for a reason, you're like, Okay,
I chose the job because I love the CEO of
a company. And you get there and the CEO leads,
You're like, uh uh. So my takeaway is this is
(15:48):
unsettling for Ben Johnson because the reason he came and
Nate in camp we're going to resign Tyson bage it
to a big contract. It's pretty unsettling.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
I mean, I think makes sense to say he picked
it for Caleb, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
There's such a disconnect now between the two.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
And I'm sorry Bears fans, that's true, there is a disconnect.
What if there are other reasons we don't know about
his wife maybe loves Chicago or is from there, or
his dad is from Chicago. I don't he may have
a connection to the city to say he picked it
for Caleb and then didn't do his homework. Because Colin,
you that Tyler Dunn story, Like, if you read that,
would you want to go coach Caleb Williams walking away
(16:27):
from coaches as a big bomb him.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Are you sure, well, it's interest because Ben was the
I mean Harrball a couple of years ago was the
number one candidate. Yeah, I think this year it was
Mike Frabel and Ben Johnson were the two great candidates.
Rabel was going to go back to New England. Jets
looked at him, but it was going to be New
I mean, if I could choose Robert Kraft or the Jets,
I'd choose Robert Kraft and Drake May. So Frabel was
going to go to New England pretty early. So you know,
(16:54):
I don't know. I said before, they're very rarely. Like
Matt Floor was lucky he got a job in Green
Bay and had Aaron Rodgers later prime, Mike McCarthy got Dack.
Those are like way better than that Nick Seriani got.
You know Howie Roseman. Five out of six head coaching
jobs come with a major problem, and Chicago's is upstairs historically,
(17:20):
So you didn't think quarterback was the issue. You thought
you could solve him. Most coaches have enough of an
ego they think they can solve the problems. But it's
that's why it's so fascinating.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
I'll just say this, I'm on the Lions this week.
I like him at four and a half five, it's
up to six now, a lot of money coming in
on Detroit. If somehow the Lions lose this game and
are now zero to two, Colin, I think you can
officially start like, hey, you know, maybe Dan Campbell wasn't
a genius all these years. Maybe it was Aaron Glenn
and Ben Johnson, or hell, even the Jets new Oc
(17:52):
I'll butcher his last name ten or something or other,
but maybe it was all those guys and not Dan Campbell.
I think there's some low key pressure on Detroit to
win this game, and they.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Better look good, Colin.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
If they don't, I'm just telling you, the Lions could
be the show opener on Monday for losing the Caleb
Final story. New York Giants rough Week one and there
was this encounter on the sideline between Brian Dable and
Malik Neighbors. Neighbors iced up there with the necklace popping
off to his coach and then refused a high five.
Look at the video and listen, Neighbors can say what
(18:24):
he wants and here he is downplaying the interaction.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But I don't know.
Speaker 9 (18:27):
My eyes don't lie.
Speaker 10 (18:29):
I was trying to get the offense going. I was
trying to get people to let's get rolled in. You know,
the lights was on, the game was on. You know,
it's something to play. I feel like they just got
pushed pushed over, you know, and everybody was talking about
just how just how it was attitude and stuff like that.
It's just I got an NBAF, I got a natural phase.
Speaker 7 (18:49):
This is what it is.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, yeah, I like that. That's funny.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
But Colin, you can't deny it. He looks at his
coach and basically shout at him, and obviously they were upset.
Russell Wilson was vomiting all over himself.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Look at it. Well on Brian's a lot. I think
Brian's a really good coach. But he's intense. I mean
he he's got more of a coordinator mindset, Like he's
very emotional. You know a lot of the great coaches,
like Andy Reid's not emotional on the sideline. Bill Belichick
was never emotional. I mean, Kyle Shanahan's not overly emotional
(19:24):
on the sideline. Most Sean mcdermot's not overly emotional. Most
head coaches are not. I would say day Bowl is
on a short list of the most emotional coaches on
the sideline, and that doesn't always play in his favor.
I mean he gets worked up.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I mean listen, by the.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
Way, we're in a lying era where people just say
whatever they want. Like Sarkesian took to the podium and
was like, yeah, there's nothing to see here, with urts
like come on, stop, don't lie to me, Brian Dabele,
like neighbors, there was something there. It'd be like Tyreek
Hill and I think we may talk.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
About him later.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
Like he's on the sideline complaining and then he's trying
to like brush it off like his guys. The video
footage doesn't lie. Something is clearly up. Just be honest
with us.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
No uh Jmack with the news, Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by the line news. Sometimes you know,
in the NFL, we all know this. It's really a
quarterback one a head coach too. It's a quarterback coach league.
GM's important. So it was a left tackle and an
edge rusher, but it's mostly a quarterback and the head
(20:28):
coach league, and it probably has been longer than we admit.
I mean, if you go back to you know, you
go back to Elway and Shanahan and Aikman and Jimmy
Johnson and Brad Shawn, Chuck Noll and Fouts and Eric Coriel,
you know, basically the great quarterbacks of all time Breeze
and Sean Paytony've always had a great coach Maholmes and
Andy Reid, Belichick and Brady. Joe Gibbs is an outlier
(20:51):
winning with three different quarterbacks. But I'm seeing something that
was a New England problem during the dynasty. So what
is the one thing during the dynasty? Because New England
did a lot right. They had the best coach, they
had the best quarterback. They didn't always lead the league
in sacks, but they got consistent pressure. They had Dante
(21:12):
Scarnekia on the offensive line, They always had a capable
run games. What was the one position they were bailing
water a lot wide receiver? And the sense was, well,
they just can't draft wide receiver. I have a take
that Brady was part of the issue, because it's not
(21:34):
like they didn't have good receivers. But did you notice
who worked with Brady Wes Welker already in the league,
Randy Moss already in the league. Julian Edelman year four
had played quarterback Gronk as he aged. Why is that?
Because my take was Tom was so precise and so
(21:58):
obsessed and so smart that you get wide receivers come
in with a little ego, a little distracted. Tom didn't
have time for him, and by year two the organization
had moved off people. Look at what's happening in Kansas City?
Are you noticing this? In two thousand Night look at
their first and second round skill picks twenty nineteen McCole Hardman,
(22:19):
and they have a good GM in Brett Viach, way
above average, one of the top five gms in the
league twenty twenty, Clyde Edwards, Hilaire twenty twenty two, Sky
Moore twenty twenty three, Rashi Rice twenty twenty four, Xavior
Worthy worthies more of a gadget player than a volume
guy and not a lot of hits. It's starting to
feel like Brady in New England and Steph Curry in
(22:42):
Golden State. When you have these high functioning, super smart
veterans that the offense is built around. I mean, how
many young guys did the Warriors draft and they don't work?
How many young receivers did the Patriots draft and they
didn't work? Look at Kansas City? Who works In Kansas City?
(23:06):
They bring back old Juju Smith Schuster, he works every time,
and old Travis Kelcey and old Kareem Hunt the old guys.
So my takeaway is between Andy Reid and Mahomes like
Steph and the Warriors are Brady and Josh McDaniels. It's
not easy for young guys to break in. They need
(23:29):
an obsessiveness, a maturity. I mean again, go back to
Tom Brady. It was Dion Branch who they brought back again,
and then Randy Moss, and then Wes Welker and then
the coach's son who played quarterback in college, Julian Edelman.
So that's why I say, when you look at Kansas
City right now, obviously there's going to be potentially AJ
(23:59):
Brown on the market, Tyreek Hill in the market. Usually
I'm not great at predicting acquisitions, but tyreek Hill a veteran,
AJ Brown a veteran. Could I see New England going
after him? Now? I think AJ Brown to New England
with Rabel's a better fit. They really need a number one.
But if you look at Kansas City's regression, it is
(24:20):
starting to feel like Steph Ann Brady struggling to implement
young people with a smart coach Belichick and Steve Kern
and Andy Reid and a very meticulous veteran quarterback. For
the record, when Lebron went to Miami, who do you
want to play with? Old d Wade, old Chris Bosh
or older? He went to Cleveland, he didn't want to
(24:42):
play with Andrew Wiggins. He wanted to get Kevin Love
in the building. You know. When he went to the Lakers,
Anthony Davis had been in the league. He wasn't a
fan of Kyle Kuzma. He wasn't a fan of Lonzo Ball.
These old, high functioning players with incredibly high standards. I mean,
Lebron's one of the smartest players. Mahomes, Brady, Steph Curry,
(25:03):
they struggle. They often struggle with young teammates. So it's
interesting when I'm sitting there looking for Brett Veach, I'd
probably get Tyreek killing AJ Brown. I'd probably get their
agents on the phone. I know those will work. I
know those guys will work. I would keep your eye
keep your eye on AJ Brown in New England. They
(25:24):
need a one. By the way, they're a very young team.
They could use some veteran leadership or veteran presence in
the locker room with AJ Brown. Just a thought. Diana
Russini around the corner, Greg Cosell. Top of the hour.
Tom Brady stops by as well. We're live. It's the Hurt.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
All sorts of things to talk about. Greg Cosel started
next hour. Diana Russini is joining us, the athletics senior
NFL insider is joining us, and we are grateful for that.
On a Thursday. So let's start with the Brock party
situation with Mac Jones. Now, remember Shanahan liked mac Jones
at a college and they went and got him in Jacksonville.
So that's not the issue. He likes this quarterback, but
(26:11):
the Brock pretty stuff, and he's been dinged up toes, elbows, shoulders.
I mean yesterday it was oh no, it's going to
be five weeks. Like what are you hearing in terms
of timeline in return, Yeah.
Speaker 9 (26:23):
It's definitely a form of turf toe.
Speaker 11 (26:25):
Apparently there's different definitions of it. But he's expected to
miss at least two games. I was not told that
it would be up to five. Of course, it could
always be. It's all based on that recovery. But it
was a bit of a surprise injury on Monday when
that popped up. And I can tell you know, it's
interesting you talk about insiders and chatter around the league.
(26:47):
I talked to the Saints on Monday, and they already
knew about it. They were already prepping for mac Jones.
So we're spreading around the league quickly. And then of
course Kyle Shanahan came out and spoke to the media publicly.
And you know, he's always been very transparent about what's
going on with his team in terms of injuries. He's
probably the best at it in football. But you know,
(27:08):
he's dealing with the shoulder. But the foot is excuse me,
the toe is the issue. So we'll see it and Colin.
Speaker 9 (27:14):
We've we've seen it before.
Speaker 11 (27:15):
We've seen quarterbacks get shot up before, you know, before games.
Speaker 9 (27:20):
It's pain.
Speaker 11 (27:21):
But also you got to look at the forty nine
ers situation, right now, George Kittle is on IR. Christian
McCaffrey was dealing obviously with a little bit of that
calf situation last week. The injury bug is swarming them again,
and it's only you know, week two here, So I
think the fact that it's so early in the season
is at least keeping them calm there.
Speaker 9 (27:41):
This isn't ideal, you know.
Speaker 11 (27:43):
I someone in football asked me, you know, you've been
around the Niners a lot, You've seen them in training camp.
You know what do they do different? It seems that
injuries hit them all the time, and I don't I
don't have an answer, Like, I don't know why it's
the forty nine ers, but lately it just seems like
they're the ones dealing with a lot of situations.
Speaker 9 (28:02):
A quarterback that just got paid a boatload of money.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, Well, the Niners and the Ravens have had injuries
over the last five years, and they're two of the
most physical run games. So maybe some of it's that
they have harder practices. And I want to pivot to
this though, there is something with the Chargers. Excuse me,
if the Chiefs lose at home to the Eagles, they're
ower and two, it's not in desperation time, but the
numbers drop down to only twelve percent of oh to
(28:25):
two teams make the playoffs. Okay, so my take is
AJ Brown one target in Week one, Tyreek Hill in Miami,
I think is unsolvable and they have a wide receiver
issue is I mean, it seems to me Howie Roseman
gets Tank bigsby a wide receiver before the season, they
went and got dots in last year when the AJ
(28:47):
drama was heating up. I feel like Howie Roseman is
creating depth in the offense by last year to today,
knowing he may have to move Aj Brown. So Aj Brown,
I'm Tyreek Hill in the Chiefs. Can I connect the
dots at all?
Speaker 8 (29:03):
There?
Speaker 9 (29:04):
It's a cute idea.
Speaker 11 (29:05):
I don't necessarily think it's true, though, I know what
you're thinking.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
Right, So Howie moves with purpose.
Speaker 11 (29:11):
I think he's proven that, right, nine trades in twenty
twenty five, Right, he's done that, And every afternoon I
feel like we're reporting something new and he's doing it
with positions that I didn't even know there was a
need for, you know, in the latest trade that he
made recently, He's never worried about winning the trade either.
I think that's important to state, right because I've had
(29:33):
a lot of conversations of the years with organizations who
are obsessed with winning the headline the next day, and
we both know how that works out.
Speaker 9 (29:40):
It doesn't matter, nobody cares. It's are you.
Speaker 11 (29:43):
Able to get the players immediately step in and make
a difference and put your team in a position to win.
Now that being said, I know there were teams calling
about AJ Brown during the off season. Okay, so they
the teams are told they're not moving AJ okay, And
it wasn't like a hey, let's keep talking, is.
Speaker 9 (30:00):
A no thanks? This is AJ Brown.
Speaker 11 (30:03):
He's one of the top five wide receivers in football,
top three. We're not moving him. I have a hard
time imagining Howie Roseman moving him. Tyreek Hill, different situation.
Are they moving Tyreek Hill right now?
Speaker 9 (30:15):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 11 (30:16):
TUA needs him, Mike McDaniel needs him. This offense needs
Tyreek Hill. But depending on what happens come October, right
before the trade deadline, the first week in November, all right,
then we'll talk about that because things will possibly change there.
But I think in terms of these Ace receivers. Both teams,
both offenses need them right now.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So I know it's early, but outside of Miami, the
New York Giants were the toughest watch and next year's
quarterback draft class looks like there's four minimum five to
six potential first round quarterbacks. So my opinion would be,
you better figure out if Jackson Dark can play, you
(31:02):
better figure it out. And I made the argument, I
think Monday or Tuesday, if the Giants trail fourteen to
nothing in half and have four three and outs, you're
going to start losing the locker room. And now, now,
if they go to Dallas and they play well, all
bets are off and Russell buys himself time. But when
the Giants say Russell is quarterback one, do you buy it?
(31:25):
What's the runway look like here?
Speaker 9 (31:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (31:28):
I did buy it because I was around them and
the offense looked good with Russell in training camp, and
the coaching staff felt good. This wasn't a scenario where
remember when Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes was there, and
remember all the chatter about Patrick at practice.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
It was like you got to see this kid, like,
I think he.
Speaker 11 (31:47):
May play, right, Look, I think Jackson Dark has impressed.
There is no doubt. I think his personality, his fiery energy,
he's understanding of Brian.
Speaker 9 (32:00):
I think they're a wonderful Matt. I think they're a
perfect match. In fact, I.
Speaker 11 (32:04):
Just think for the way training camp went, they're trying
to get Jackson Dart as prepared as possible and Russell
Wilson is able to do the job from there, you know,
from from their perspective right now, he can run the
offense they're looking for. They're of course missing their left tackle.
Right this is the biggest part of this story. Why
are you going to roll out Jackson Dart if you're
(32:26):
not going to give him the best protection because he's
just gonna get hit and it's not gonna look good.
Speaker 9 (32:29):
He's not even gonna be able to run the offense.
Speaker 11 (32:31):
Just has Daniel Jones right look at him and Indy,
but he's got some protection. Uh you know, he lights
it up week one. So look, I think Jet we're
going to see Jackson dark Collin. That is no doubt
we're going to see them, especially if Russell Wilson continues
to play.
Speaker 9 (32:43):
Like whatever that was. And I have to tell you
I was a little surprised. Look We've had a million
conversations on the show.
Speaker 11 (32:49):
Together about Russell Wilson, whether it was in Denver and
Pittsburgh last year, but there were times where we did
see good things and I understand what New York was
seeing out of Russ. They love that qu quarterback room.
They love putting Jackson Dart around, Jaenis around Russell. Apparently
it's a type of quarterback room of let's get the
young guy ready, which which you know is a good
(33:09):
way to be knowing that he's going to play.
Speaker 9 (33:12):
It's just going to be a matter of when.
Speaker 11 (33:13):
And Colin, whenever we talk about this stuff, it's not
just in a vacuum of who's going to be the
best quarterback out there. You have to count the fact
that Brian Dable is on the hot seat, Joe Shane
is on the hot seat. John Merrick came out last
year and it pained him to bring these guys back
because he didn't want change. So you have to imagine
some of this is a factor in when you pull
(33:34):
the trigger and say, because look, Brian Dabele calls in
Jackson Dart at the second half against the Dallas Cowboys
because they.
Speaker 9 (33:41):
Need a spark.
Speaker 11 (33:42):
Any bombs or they have to stick with him who
knows what happens, right, So I think all of this
you have to take into consideration for a team in
the last ten years, you know, is one of the
most losing organizations, you know, outside the Jags, which is
hard to It's hard to think of that, right because
you think Giants, and you think that they've had success,
(34:04):
but it was so long ago at this point, you know,
and then you just take a look at the body
of work with Brian Deable there and outside of just
that first season, it's just not great.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah. Diana Rassini, senior NFL insider of The Athletic got
a podcast too. It crushes good senior.
Speaker 11 (34:21):
Thanks yeah, Colin. Check out my column too on the Athletic.
I drop it at ten am Eastern on Saturdays.
Speaker 9 (34:26):
I love.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
It's my favorite thing I do, just right about all
the stuff going on in football.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I will, we will thank thanks love you guys. Yeah,
all right, Greg co Sell top of the hour. You know,
J Mackett, I want to throw this up again. So
I was saying, you know, I think you and I
both would rather be positive than negative, especially with young
quarterbacks because when you watch Cam Ward play against Denver,
it's exciting. Like I was like, oh, we got another team.
(34:53):
I mean they've had Marcus Marioti and you know the
late Steve McNair. I mean they've they've had guys that
can move the change. Ryan Tannehill had a couple of
good years. But you watch cam Ward and it was like,
oh my, I think I think Tennessee has a chance
to upset the Rams this weekend. So people will be
watching this game now because you know the Rams are,
you know, fairly high profile. Stafford McVeigh. But I remember
(35:16):
saying this on the air. I didn't think. I was
not a fan of Mitch Trubisky as a draft pick.
I've told the story. Greg Cosell told me to watch
Mitch Trubisky his last year at North Carolina. He goes,
he's going to get drafted, He's moving up the board.
What do you think. I was in Hawaii with my family.
I watched and I texted Greg Cosell. I'm like, I
don't get it. Bald dies at twenty five yards. He's
(35:37):
kind of athletic. I don't see it. Blah blah blah.
But I always defended Matt Nagy, the head coach, and
I said time out. Stafford, Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rodgers
were in their prime in that division, and Trubisky twice
got to the playoffs with Matt Naggy. So I'm like,
I don't like Trubisky, but I think Matt Naggi can coach.
(35:58):
But when I put those numbers out, we can put
a up again. Through the first eighteen starts of Caleb
Williams and Mitch Trubisky, they are, outside of sacks, the
same player as athletic, but you don't trust their accuracy
(36:18):
on big throws. I mean, it's in dispute. And by
the way, I've only got one game of Ben Johnson,
give me five to six more. But I mean, when
I looked at those numbers this morning the staff handed
me those numbers, I was like, forget Justin Field's come.
Speaker 7 (36:32):
I mean, listen, some of that is that cheery picked maybe,
but you're right, this is alarming. I mean, Maserati, Mitch, like,
I know you said he got to the playoffs twice. Listen,
he never really won from the pocket.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
That's right.
Speaker 9 (36:44):
He's a run around guy. That was the era when
everybody wanted running.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Quarterback, and I think we got to look at like
a guy like Kim Ward, like he is mobile, but man,
he can win from the pocket.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I like him a lot.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
And there's another guy starting this week, Matt Jones for
the for the forty nine ers. Remember I'm in college,
but I was like, oh, he's dominant from the pocket,
but he's kind of a statue. He's like slow, So
I didn't personally like him. And you're seeing now he's
getting a shot with the Niners. So this idea of
having a running quarterback is great. But number one, they've
got a process and win from the pocket. And I
(37:16):
haven't seen that from Caleb yet. I'm not saying we won't.
I just haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well, it's what Nick Right and I talked about yesterday.
You have to be operationally buttoned up, like I thought.
Bone Nicks and Sean Payton took the blame on this.
Bone Nicks operationally for Denver in Week one did not
look It looked like he was rushing everything. And my
take Monday was, I think they put way too much
on his plate. They have not put that much stuff
(37:45):
on the plate of Caleb Williams. I mean, Sean Payton
has a legendary reputation of just stacking. I mean, just
if he thinks you can learn it. Remember, he and
Russell Wilson had a problem because Russell didn't want to
wear the armband. He didn't want to wear that, and
Shawn's yet wear it, and Russell didn't like. You know
why didn't Russell want to wear it. Probably because it
looks like he doesn't know the play. I don't know,
(38:06):
but he pushed back and Sean's like, wear it, so
and Brady wore it. I don't have a problem with it.
But if you can't get the nuts and bolts and
the operation down, it doesn't matter, you know. You know what,
when I watched Caleb in that first drive, it was
very much Cam Newton. Cam Newton was jaw droppingly talented,
(38:27):
and I watched that Roma Dunze throw and he ran
for a touchdown. I said, that's Cam. Like, Cam was
like the best college quarterback I've seen, maybe ever in
terms of total dominance, and Caleb had a lot of that.
But man, there's a reason that Cam never had back
to back winning seasons as mechanics and operations and self
indulgence and distraction, and this this position is so hard,
(38:50):
and there are so many boxes to check.
Speaker 7 (38:52):
And you know what the Lions want to do. They're
gonna be blitzing Caleb heavily. Get him off the spot,
get him running around like a chicken with his head
cut off, and let him make stakes.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Greg coach Shell Our two bits to hurt
Speaker 3 (39:06):
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