November 25, 2025 • 41 mins
Colin unveils his Week 13 Herd Hierarchy, ranking the Top 10 NFL teams. Where do the Philadelphia Eagles land after their shocking collapse against the Dallas Cowboys?
He doubles down on why Jerry Jones is winning the Micah Parsons trade and that he is owed an apology
Guest: Nick Wright
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go our two and a Tuesday. It is
Thanksgiving weeks starting Thursday. Great NFL and college football, Ohio
State and Michigan Cowboys, and the Chiefs lines and the Packers. Well,
we do this every Tuesday. It's getting easier. I think
(00:50):
we've reached the point I kind of know what everybody
is and I know what they're not. So let's not
waste any time before we get to Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Here is our Herd hierarchy on a Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Heard Hierarchy time. Now go the top ten NFL teams
according to College number ten.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Okay, listen, I'm gonta put the Bears in here eight
and one over their last nine games. Their defense leads
the NFL in interceptions and takeaways. They have twenty four takeaways.
I don't think they're a great defensive team, but they
take when the balls in the air, they fight for.
They're also the second best rush team offense. Number six.
(01:31):
I don't think Ben Johnson and Caleb are a finished product.
This team wins close games. Same thing I say about Denver.
There is value in that Chiefs did at last year.
I think teams that win close games are tight locker rooms.
Bears at ten. Number nine the Ravens. Obviously, Lamar Jackson
(01:51):
is not one hundred percent brought pretty last night, no velocity,
toe injury. He won't say anything. Lamar won't say anything.
Fifth straight win. Their defense right now since Week seven
is the number one defense in the league. They're not pretty,
They're out of rhythm. They're a little broken offensively. I
always say I put Baltimore in the top ten because
I just respect the culture, the ownership, the coach, the
(02:15):
front office. I don't know how good they are, but
they make the list.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Number eight.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Green Bay. Here's what's weird. For the first time in forever,
it's just a defensive store. Their offense is conservative, their
defense is excellent. At home, opponents score thirteen points a game.
That's the best home defense in the league. They've held
opponents under twenty points in four straight games. They have
a pass rush. Their offense does not give it away.
(02:45):
This is rare. It's a boring Green Bay Packer team
led by their defense. Okay, and we look at all
these offensive receivers and all these stars and we're like, oh,
I don't understand it. It's just a different Packer team.
But it's a good one. They're eight. Number seven the
Lions third game with two hundred plus rushing yards. Jamir
Gibbs is like fired out of a cannon. The guy's unbelievable.
(03:10):
Their defense, though, major problem. They give up chunk play.
They gave up ten catches of over twenty yards to
Jamis Winston. But they can control the game. They've got
a home run hitter in the backfield. They've got a
culture creator and an accurate thrower. They're unimpressive and uninspiring,
(03:33):
not as good as last year. Number seven, number six
the Chiefs Listen lead the NFL in yards per game.
It's not pretty. Yeah, they could have been five and six,
but they held the Colts to season lows in points, totally, yards,
and first downs. They're good at home, they're not as
good on the road because they're not a great team.
(03:55):
But they're a good team, and they're won of four
teams to rank top ten, only four in the league,
top ten in all major four major categories, scoring offense,
total offense, scoring defense, total defense, well coached, smartly quarterback.
I have them at six, number five, one inch behind Philadelphia, which,
(04:18):
like Baltimore, has a broken offense. Sjalen Hurts attended thirty
attempted thirty nine throws against the Cowboys. That's about double
what people in Philadelphia are comfortable with. Nine of their
eleven games have been decided by one score. But I
can't hold it against them because that was the case
with Kansas City last year. They have a culture, they've
got athletes. I trust them in big spots. They just
(04:41):
had a disastrous second half against a hot Cowboy offense.
Lamb Pickens Dack five. Number four Seattle the one team
I would not want to play in the playoffs. Young, confident, aggressive,
great on the road. Seattle highest ro percentage in the league,
(05:02):
and they love to throw the ball down the field
and number three in point differential. They're gonna go in
as a wild card team, and they'll be the only
wild card team that, honestly, I mean I would argue
their roster could be better than the team that wins
the division. They're a little more mistake prohem than the Rams,
(05:23):
but I have them at four.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Number three.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
The Patriots played like crap and one on the road.
That's pretty good. The offensive line, now it's a little
banged up, but they've only allowed three sacks over the
last three games. They just don't have a fundamental flaw.
If they score twenty points, they're ten to zero. Best
record in the NFL. I think Josh McDaniel offensive coordinator
once again quietly, just like with Brady, is really I mean,
(05:50):
he is the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain for
this offense. They just call and perform a really smart
offensive game play every Sunday, Number two Denver. Here's why
there are certain stats you can't.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Ignore.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
They lead the NFL with a plus thirty six sack differential.
They have the number one ranked offensive line. They allow
four point four yards of play, easily the best in
the league. They get four and a half sacks the
game now way too many penalties, more than any in
the league. I could see them beating themselves. They have
(06:30):
terrible halves and are inconsistent, but there are stats in
this league that tell me you're going to win multiple
playoff games. Oh yeah, they got a Hall of Fame
level head coach.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Number one.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean, honestly, the Rams, they're number one in everything.
Seven of their nine wins have come against teams with
the winning records. They're blowing people out. Tampa is not
a bad team. They scored thirty one in the first half.
They don't turn it over, they never get penal life,
they take leads. Number one scoring offense, number one scoring
defense during this six game stretch. Let me tell you something.
(07:05):
Nate Lanman, the inside linebacker, stole him from Atlanta. Devonte Adams,
free agent, stole him. I mean, it's just incredible what
they've done. I mean, they went and got the corner
from Washington Forbes. He looks like a number one corner.
What an off season of acquisitions for very reasonable prices.
(07:28):
There we go. Let's bring in Nick, right. I'm interested
to see what Nick has to say about this. I
think Green Bay is hard to get your arms around
because our entire life, green Bay's been an offensive story
and this one they're actually a defensive story, and we're
all like they're no good, no they're good. They're just
different anybody that jump out to you.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
A few things. First of all, good hierarchy. I like
it a lot. I am a little surprised at the
lack of inclusion for the Bills with the inclusion.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Of the Ravens.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
So I understand the concerns about the Bills, you know,
many of which I've been raising for five years. However,
the Ravens have not played a sixty minute football game
where they're good on both sides of the ball once
all year, zero times all season. And it appears whatever
(08:22):
magic elicks or the defense took to get good, they
took it from the offense, which now is not good.
And I'm not a doctor, but Lamar's injuries going from
in chronological order hamstring to need to ankle to now
tow feel like now maybe after the tow there's nowhere
else to go.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
He's just healthy. But that's concerning to me.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
I would probably put the Bills where you have the
Ravens the Packers. The defense is awesome. I don't trust
Jordan Love at the moment. I know he's got a
lot upside, I don't trust him, and I'm interested in
why you don't have the Niners on their cut.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Okay, okay, a prime example. So you ever seen brock
Perty's Monday Night football numbers? Five touchdowns, eleven pick, seventy
five passer rating. He is not a good cold weather quarterback.
We know that Seattle is gonna make the playoffs, Philadelphia
is gonna make the playoffs, Green Bay is gonna make
the playoff, Chicago's gonna make the playoffs, and he's gonna
go on the road. So my point is, I've never
(09:23):
thought of, Let mean, let's be honest about brock Purty.
You and I feel the same thing. Saula's done an
unbelievable job. McCaffrey might as well be Walter Payton. He's
the whole offense you don't trust. If I don't trust
your quarterback at least earlier or late, I can't have
you in that. I mean, you feel that way, don't
you Listen?
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Here's the deal. I set you up to go on
that rant just so I can be like, I agree
with all of it, and you and I you and
I never never wavered when the lunatic fringe was like,
you're just.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
Being unfair if you.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Don't acknowledge brock is a top five quarterback That was
said by allegedly credible people. Folks are like, oh, it's
draft pick bias. Why will you give brock Purdy his flowers? Oh,
he's a bargain at fifty million a year.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
You and I held the line Colin cowhard.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
And now last year we saw brock Purty without all
the fancy weapons take a dip. This year we got
the real science lab experiment of I don't know what
if you threw god call it mac Jones in there,
how they do?
Speaker 6 (10:32):
The answer is just fine. And now he's out here.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
You know, this is his second in the last less
than two years, his second three interception half.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
This is his sixth.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Three interception game in the last three years. Brock Purty,
when he was content being a game manager in the
Shanahan brilliant system, was just fine. Yeah, Rock Purty trying
to be like I'm gonna show everybody what I can
do is a disaster waiting to happen. He threw three
(11:07):
picks in the first half, and he was very fortunate
it was not five if I were the Niners, because
I here's the thing. As long as mccaffery's healthy, Shanahan's
calling plays and Big Bob Solas dialing up that defense.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
They're scary.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
I'm one more Purdy game like that away from going
back to mac Jones and dealing with the contract stuff
in the offseason.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, how about that. I'm gonna throw this at you.
Is it possible now? I said when they traded Micah,
I said, it's good for Green Bay. They need a
closer because they lead games late. Dallas doesn't. Dallas needs
draft picks because look at Philadelphia Rams Lions, you just
don't have the players. Well, you look at Jerry now,
(11:54):
they still have two first round picks. Don't need a
quarterback in a half the league does in the next draft,
which is the quarterback draft. Uh, you can't run them
anymore because Quinn Williams now looks like Pro Bowl Quinn Williams.
Kenny Clark's good. They've got over shown back who was
a monster at Texas and now is a monster. He's
healthy with Dallas, and they're probably gonna get Caleb Downs
in an edge rusher. Do we owe Jerry an apology?
(12:16):
They stole George Pickens. They got incredible value for Micah.
Their pass rush is third in the league in pressures.
Do we all owe Jerald Wayne Jones senior Neapoleon.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
No, no, we don't, because here's the other way to
look at it. You're right, they do have and you
always do this. You're like, they have two first round picks,
which is true, but they one of them is their own.
They were always gonna have one, so it's one additional
first round pick now that they've made the Quentinn Williams trade.
My counterpoint would be this, had Jerry's ego and negotiating
(12:53):
tactics not cost them Micah Parsons, they wouldn't be in
a position where they are ten percent to make the playoffs, despite.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
Having Dak Prescott playing.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
The best football of his life and right now, up
to this point this season, the best wide receiver duo
in football.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
They are.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
If I don't have a vote on anything.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
For NFL awards, if I did, Dak Prescott would be
my second team All Pro quarterback. Right now, It'd be
Stafford first team All Pro, Dak Prescott's second team All Pro.
And they're five to five and one because up until
two weeks ago, they had the worst defense in football.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
So I don't think they had to have that.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
And I still think if the net net of the
trade is you traded away Micah and you got Quinn
Williams and one additional first round pick, which is it
actually probably got a little bit less than that, but
call it that. I think that's a loss for Dallas.
I think I think Quinn Williams is a excellent player.
I think Mica is a Hall of Fame player, and
(14:00):
I think that's the difference. So no, I don't owe
Jerry an apology. George Pickens trade was good, though, And
as happy as Jerry is about the George Pickens production,
he's even happier that he now has because they didn't
have a star to get in a messy contract battle
with this offseason because everyone was locked up, and now
they do, so that's kind of, you know, we got
(14:22):
a two.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
For the price of one.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
In Jerry's book, Okay, I said this about Shoulder, I
was surprised he dropped in the draft. I like my
quarterbacks to be intense and obsessed. I just that's my thing.
They get goofyed, they get a little Johnny Manziel or
cam or Baker or Shoulder who's kind of fun and
a little loose. It's not my thing, but I will
(14:44):
say this, he takes swings. I watched them against the Raiders,
and I'm like, well, that's the Colorado guy. Dylan Gabriel,
I said this, Nobody gets rich with a four oh
one K. Dylan Gabriel is not even a four oh
one K. He's the savings bond your grandma gave you.
But you can't win being small and safe and making
coaches happy. I think there's value in the fact that
(15:07):
the players like Shauduur. That's what I saw.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
What's say ups, I think this is a very simple
decision that you start Shadoor if you can for the
rest of the season. And that's not because I'm a
huge Shadoor guy. I didn't love him coming out of school.
I said on this show when he was projected to
go in the top five that I could see him
slipping out of the first round that Pittsburgh trade. People
(15:33):
a drawing about should Pittsburgh trade up for him, and
I said, listen, I think he'll just be available when
Pittsburgh's picking at like twenty one wherever they were. So
I'm not a huge fan of Shador the player. I
actually people were criticizing his personality. I have less of
problem with that. I have more problem with I just
don't know if he is NFL starting quarterback caliber. With
(15:56):
that said, there is a chance shad Or Sanders is
going to be an above average NFL starter for ten years.
There is a bigger chance. I would put that at
like five percent. There's like a ten percent chance that
shoud Or Sanders is just an average NFL starter for
(16:16):
ten years.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
I think there is.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
And I know this sounds mean, I don't mean it
to a zero percent chance. Dylan Gabriel is above average
NFL starter, and I think there is a close to
zero percent chance Dylan Gabriel is a longtime starter. Dylan
Gabriel was drafted, in my eyes, to be a more
than competent backup, stop gap quarterback. That's fine, is a
third round pick. So if I'm Cleveland that has started
(16:42):
forty two different quarterbacks in the last quarter century, I
need to get as much info as possible on did
we get you know, a diamond in the rough? So
to speak with Shador, I would bet against it, but
it's possible. I don't think it's possible that Dylan Gabriel
is the Brown starter in four years. It's possible shadoor Is,
(17:07):
so I'd want to see him play.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Caleb Williams, It's remarkable to me that a team that's
six and one in close games is on a heater,
number two in rushing, number one in big plays, wins
every close games, is a seven point dog at Philly,
a team that's broken. The Bengals were a seven and
a half point dog to number one seed New England
(17:32):
without Flak or Jamar Chase. It tells me the Desert
just doesn't buy Chicago. I'm sorry, but last night Cuddy
Carolina without Warner or Bosa was a seven point dog
to San Francisco. That is a massive number, and it's
telling me the Sharps don't buy Chicago. What does it
tell you.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Well, listen, I think that maybe the public or Vegas,
you know, one or the other maybe slightly over values
Philly's offense right now, because I don't think Philly's team
is broken, but I think Philly's offense has massive issues.
And while AJ Brown is an awkward messenger, I think
(18:13):
his message is correct.
Speaker 6 (18:15):
So I think that Philly should not.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Be more than a six point favorite over a good team.
So the fact that there are a seven point favorite
means Vegas isn't buying.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
That Chicago is a good team.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And I understand they have a negative point differential, and
that's obviously concerning, but they eight and three, and I
don't want to be reductive, but eight and three is
eight and three, And more importantly is this. I do
think Caleb has gotten better month by month. Is he's
still behind the schedule you or I would have set
(18:51):
for him the day he declared for the draft two
years ago? Sure, but I do think he is slowly
but surely improving. He's not taking the sacks anymore, even
though we took one terrible one in the end zone
on Sunday. And I, you know, I don't know where
you're It sounds like I know where you're leaning on this.
But I like Bears plus seven, and I think Philly
(19:14):
is in a precarious spot as far as they last year,
when they were having issues on offense, they could just
press and spam the Saquon button. Saquon's four hundred and
fifty touches shockingly are showing up looking like a player
that at four hundred and fifty touches. So I don't
(19:35):
know what the quick fix Philly has is. I know
everyone's mad at the offensive coordinator, Pattullo. Luckily they're head
coach that everybody loves nowadays. He's an offensive mind. Why
doesn't he fix it? Sounds like the easiest solution. But
so I like Chicago in this spot as well.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Colin, So I saw kind of a veiled shot at
me as your mentor. It was hurtful a couple of
weeks ago on Lebron, and so I said, and I
was a little to.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Your check mentor. But I mean it's you know, my
relationship with Lebron. I I love you, Colin, but I
mean there's there is a loyalty factor or player.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
But go ahead, so I said, I know Lebron is smart, calculated,
he'll walk in. He'll be fine to Utah games a
lot of rest, I said, But here's the thing right
now in the world, Luca is the best offensive player,
and I want his usage rake pretty darn close to
forty five percent. He's in his athletic skinny, Luca should
(20:29):
have the ball in his hands forty percent of the time.
This is not Oklahoma City with a deeper roster. I
want Austin Reeves also in his prime, and he also
has a shot creator. I want him to have it
about twenty five percent of the time. That's it. That's
about sixty five percent. Seventy percent really needs it. This
My question isn't whether Lebron for a game against Utah
(20:50):
two can acquiesce, but at thirty percent usage is about
what it looks like he should be. And I think
over the course of the season he's never been. You know,
he's been at least tied for the best player on
the team, usually easily the best. Don't you worry at
some point Lebron could be like, hey, I ran the
(21:12):
league for twenty years, give me the ball.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
So I would worry about that if the following weren't.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
I'd worry about that.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
If he's still had counting stats he was trying to
run down. He doesn't. He has all the records. I
would worry about that. If it's like, oh, man, I
need one more all NBA team.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
To break the record.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
No, he broke that record seven seasons ago. I'd worry
about that if it were that he was still, you know,
able to be in the argument for best player in
the world. But he's not, and he knows it, and
so because of all of those factors, because he set
(21:55):
himself a year ago. At this point everything is extra credit.
And because he came back to the Lakers a because
he still loves playing basketball. There wasn't a better place
for him and b I think he believes, well, we're
not the favorites, we're not even the second favorites. But
(22:15):
if something happens to Oklahoma City and it's open, we're
live in that spot.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
I think he will be fine with it.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
I also think for the Lakers being able to deploy
quite simply the smartest player in the history of the
sport as something of you know, jack of all trades,
here's what we need tonight could be very, very valuable
for JJ Reddick and so I am. And to be clear,
(22:48):
I was not subtweeting you or taking subtle shots at you.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
I think what I said.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Was and I quote my dear friend and Mint were
Colin Coward is out of his bleeping mind on this.
I think that's what I said. It was not supposed
to be like, wait, was he talking about me? No,
you're I think you're crazy about that. Lebron's not gonna
fit because Lebron can fit anywhere and he said as much.
And by the way, I'm gonna be there, maybe not
(23:14):
quite with Colin Cower and court side seats, but maybe
just one rowback of that Friday night to watch it
in person. I'll be in LA for Thanksgiving, so I
don't know if you're in Chicago or LA, but maybe
I'll see you.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
But I'll give you an on the.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Ground scouting report from Lakers MAVs on Friday night.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I appreciate that, my friend. First thing's first. Happy Thanksgiving
to you and the fam. Nick right, thank you for
stopping by. Yeah, I think I think there's three quarterbacks.
There are either franchise guys bridge guys like Jamis Winston's
a great bridge guy, fun, capable, productive, little goofy to
build around. But there's franchise guys. We know who they are.
(23:50):
There are bridge guys. That's Bryce Young is starting to
look and feel like a bridge guy, a starter for
a year, and then there's backups. I I think you're
getting to a point with brock perty he's somewhere between
franchise and bridge, and last night he looked like a
bridge guy. I think it's come. I think the people
in Carolina won't admit it. I think Bryce ELM's feeling
(24:11):
like a bridge guy, like, I don't know if we
can go all would you sign him to an extension?
I mean, look at his passer rating week to week
to week. It's just all over the map. One of
the things about being a franchise guy, I get the
same quarterback every week. Josh Allen doesn't run for six
touchdowns every week. I get the same guy every week.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
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Speaker 4 (24:37):
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Speaker 7 (24:40):
Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire
with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing
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Speaker 4 (24:50):
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Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, it is that time of the year when the
truth comes out. College and pro football, Ohio State, Michigan.
I got it at about thirty to thirteen, maybe thirty seventeen,
maybe thirty three seventeen Buckeyes. J Mack with the news,
heard on the news.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
When we have time later, ask me a question about Michigan,
Ohio State. I have a crazy staff for you. But
right now we got to go to the NBA column
because this is a big issue for the league right now. Injuries,
this is not good. You know, quarterback injuries can rip
apart the NFL Star injuries are killing the NBA. Colin
There was an analysis done of last year's NBA All
Star Team. For All NBA Team, half of the players
(26:10):
from last year are injured in street clothes, out of action. Now,
what exactly is causing all these injuries? Here we have
it on the screen. Look at all these stars who
are currently down and that does not include Lebron who
was down is now back. But like Jannis Tatum, Hallie,
I mean Wembin Yama, like, it's really not great for
the league. The games have been fantastic on a nightly basis.
(26:33):
The league is being is putting out are product.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Some of these guys are just older players. Curry, Butler,
kawhi Yn.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
Curry is still an All NBA player. Butler's an All
NBA caliber player.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I didn't say they weren't. They're older players, and they
don't want to play eighty two regular season games, and
they have the power that they don't have to.
Speaker 7 (26:53):
So Steve Kerr is pushing a narrative that it has
to do with the pace of the league.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
If you go look at it, it's funny.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
Nobody wants to do this, but that eighties nineties NBA.
Go look at like a Michael Jordan game from the nineties.
It's walk it up the court, pound it down in
the post, Jordan.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Ten seconds with his back to the.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Basket, dribbling. It's like boring and slow. You go to
the modern NBA, it's pace in space so fast. You
have to have a deep roster, which is why OKC
is thriving right now, best record in the league. Yeah,
they got like ten guys.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Now I think, I think you've got a lot of
older stars. I mean again, these guys have played in
a lot of games. BAM gonna buy you. Joel mb
Dame Lillard, Tatum plays eighty two when he's healthy. Jannis Butler,
Kawhi Curry, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving. So a lot of
these guys are old guys, and so it doesn't bother me,
but it it And I do think pace and space
(27:44):
is the league. So I think Steve Kurves onto it.
Speaker 7 (27:46):
Yeah, so tonight, Lakers, paper Clips, if you want to
jop on the private jet and come out, I could
probably get you a ticket to it. Kawhi vers Luca,
we know that's always a great show, but listen, it's
not great when your stars are down. I do think
I'm with you. Like sitting out a few games to
rest up for the playoff. I got no problem with that.
On I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Let's move on to mister Pickens.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
George Pickens one of the best stories in the league, Yes,
in the league at wide receiver. The season he was
a absolute heist by Jerry Jones. Congratulations, and Jerry Jones
seems to think they want this guy long term.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
We've got two number one receivers and that's just exceptional.
Right at the time, when guess what, our quarterback is
probably the best that he's ever been there's nothing that
we can gain from the speculating and conjecture. The bottom
(28:44):
money is that we're in good shape. He's playing better
than we could have even anticipated, and he's an outstanding
let me emphasis this again, outstanding teammate.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
He's not wrong, thick and so far, so far.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
When they offer him a franchise tag, he may not
be happy with that.
Speaker 7 (29:03):
Well somebody, Uh, we'll get to that in a second,
but uh, somebody on Instagram hit me with this and said,
j Mack, did you see that Pickens has more receiving
yards than everyone on the Pittsburgh Steelers, the team he
was last year.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Combined Colin, That is a little crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
The one thing about Dallas and Jerry Jones, and maybe
it's just the showmanship. Jason Garrett, offensive coach, Mike McCarthy
offensive coach shoddy, shoddy offensive coach Jerry is leaning offense.
I think the smart owners in the league see the
value of that. And Dak deserves a lot of credit.
He has noisy players in his career, Dez and Zeke
(29:42):
and Pickens. Was it's all quiet on the Dak front.
Everything always works with Dak.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
Well, I'll just say this, you know now, let's get
to the contract. Colin Pickens ain't gonna be happy with
a franchise tag and.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I know it's gonna be like twenty eight twenty nine mil.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
He don't want that. He wants the long term security.
He wants said guaranteed money that Tyreek Hill and all
these superstars got. He's going to be ticked.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Off at that.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
Okay, And remember what ticked off Pickens was like in Pittsburgh. Oh,
I remember we ran the plays. He would like he's
supposed to block, he would just jog out of the
block and like pretend like he's blocking. He checks out
pretty quickly. I would just you know, be ready Dallas,
because this offseason could.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Be rocky with the superstar Pickts.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
Final story, Colin is the Kansas City Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes.
You know, Mahomes was having a good year. He's kind
of not been awesome in the last few weeks. He
is the only quarterback, however, in the NFL with a
winning record in games that his team has trailed by
double digits. Obviously, that's a great, you know thing to
have when you're down. We have a little chart here
(30:43):
of some of the other quarterbacks when trailing by ten
or more point.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Jim Tebow auto Graham and Tom Brady auto Graham, Auto Graham.
I don't think war shoes. I think I think they
played in flipflop. Listen, Mahomes is great in comeback.
Speaker 7 (31:00):
I don't know that I can give Mahomes all the
credit for the Colt smeltdown. I mean, listen, the defense
stopped Indy, and Indy stopped running Jonathan Taylor, you know,
psyching with playing scared for whatever.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Mahomes is a great comeback guy.
Speaker 7 (31:12):
Look at that line Colin three and a half against Dallas.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Oh, I like Dallas is good at home, but I like,
can't I can't wait to watch that. That game is
gonna get forty five million people. I think it's gonna
get forty to forty five. I'm not not pray, I'm
not kidding here. Mahomes Dak Cowboys, Chiefs. Well there's Nathan
else you do, I mean forty four million people?
Speaker 4 (31:34):
So do you think Chiefs win this?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Interesting?
Speaker 7 (31:39):
Okay, no pick yet from me, but headlines Maniana, that's
tomorrow in Spanish, I know J Mack with the news.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Ryan daya the Buck guys talking about the big game
coming up. Lane Kiffin, I mean this just cracks me up.
He could be the greatest coach in the history of
old myths. He already is box checked. Now he's looking
maybe for a bigger check.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I get it. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd weekdays in noon eastern nine am Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
The greatest drivelry in sports is here.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
Top rank defending national champion Ohio State heads to the
Big House looking to snap Michigan's five game win streak
in the game. It all starts at nine am Eastern
with a special three hour Big noon kickoff live from
Ann Arbor. Then it's Michigan Ohio State at.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Noon only on Fox.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Ryan Day.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
That a rough little stretch against Michigan. They're beating everybody
at step Michigan. Here's a little Ryan Day talking about
the Wolverines and trying to snap that losing streak against Michigan.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I feel prepared, feel ready. I feel like the guys
that we have going going up there are you know,
it's a great group of guys and We're gonna be
locked in, focused, concentrating on doing our job, and you
just can't wait to, you know, enjoy being together in
another person in other people stadium, you know. I mean
that's to me, something that's different than playing at home
(33:26):
and going into another team stadium and winning a game.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Is there's nothing better than that. Listen if you go
they lost to Michigan last year, then they played Tennessee
in the playoff. From that Tennessee game on to today,
easily the best team in the country. Last year, offensively,
it just looked different, and this year defensively they don't
look like a college team. So it's somewhere between pro
(33:53):
and college linebackers, unbelievable corners, safeties. I mean when they
went out to Seattle and like Washington at home, it
couldn't even compete. It's a whole different. I mean, go
look at that arch Manning game, like they're intimidating people.
You can't get off off the blocks they I mean,
the windows are tiny. Matt Patricia, the scheme, I think
(34:14):
Michigan is going to struggle to move the ball, struggle
to move the ball. So I like Ohio State, everybody's
always afraid to say, in games like this it's gonna
be a blowout. Michigan better fight like mad in that
first quarter because if Michigan's behind and has to throw,
is going to get ugly. Michigan needs to score first.
(34:38):
By the way, j Mack, you said you had a
great stat on this game.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
So last year's game, Ohio State lost thirteen to ten.
I'm looking at the Ohio State box score. I'm going
to read off some names for you. These were the
running backs Ohio State had last year against Michigan. Kushawn Judkins,
he's currently starring in the NFL. Trayvon Treveon Henderson, he's
currently starring in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
They could do nothing against the Michigan defense.
Speaker 7 (35:05):
This was the Ohio State wide receiver room. Carnel Tate,
who's a stud and probably a first round pick this year,
imeca Ibuka, Jeremiah Smith, and Trayvon Henderson.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
They scored ten points. Colin. This is more about Ohio
State's dominant They got guys every year.
Speaker 7 (35:23):
If you go back two years, look at the depth chart,
it's insane. Ohio State has way more talent. How are
they coming up so empty in these last couple of games.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
That's the only thing that scares me. I have I have.
I'm afraid to bett Ohio State here. I'm afraid.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, well, one of us is one of us is.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
Not, but there's no logic behind it.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I generally don't. I've bet this game a feud. What
is the number right now?
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Last year they were like three touchdown favorites practically and
vomited all over themselves a lot.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
I haven't even look because I'm afraid to bet Aha State.
I mean, they can't be that big of a number.
Michigan this year is better than they were last year.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I can't unsee the Michigan game against USC. I can't
unsee it. I'm sorry, I can't. I will, I gotta.
This is one thing I've been saying this this this
week of college football is going to be crazy. It's
just I mean, starting Thursday, the games are outrageous. Lane,
(36:21):
A lot of people that write for newspapers are old
and cranky in no particular order. Sometimes they're cranky and old,
sometimes they're old and cranky. But what's happening to college football? Lane?
Kiffin's right, it's now pro football on Saturday, and this
idea that Lane's not being loyal. The players aren't loyal anymore.
Here's Lane on everybody saying, well, what will the players say? Lane?
(36:45):
If you leave you recruited them, what will the players?
What about the players? And here's Kiffin. I've said it before.
Speaker 9 (36:54):
It's a different generation, guys. I know it's different than
what we were in when players couldn't even players chose
to go play for their home stage a lot and
all that. This is a different generation. They all can
leave every year. A lot of that is financially based,
and so they don't think the traditional way that years
ago about their coach and what's going to go on
(37:15):
with him next year. That that's it's not how they
think anymore.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
They don't And he's right, and it's up to college
football to create rules where you can't poach a coach
because be mad at LSU in Florida. Don't be mad
at Lane Kiffin. So I've been talking about this. There
is a lot of Here's what's funny. Everybody knows Drake
may is really good, nobody doubts that. But the other
(37:41):
two young quarterbacks that you're getting a ton of pushback
on Bo Nicks and Caleb Williams now everybody and myself included.
Bow got off to a choppy, choppy start this year.
He regressed good against Kansas City, but he regressed. That's fair.
They always call it sophomore slump. Everybody's got film. Defensive
(38:03):
coordinators have an entire offseason. Here's throws he makes, Here's
throws he doesn't. Now In fairness, Sean Payton's never been
good the first four to five weeks of the season,
so I mean some of that is Sean experiments. He
puts a lot on the quarterbacks back and bow Nicks
is still young. The other quarterback is Caleb Williams and
(38:24):
his accuracy. He's under sixty percent in four straight games.
But in both instances. The reason I defend both bow
Knicks and Caleb Williams, they're good late and they win
close games, and there is value in that. I mean, yesterday,
Bryce Young had multiple opportunities to steal that game. He
(38:44):
couldn't do it. Look at Caleb Williams in November. This
is worse. Whether fewer of you guys around, you're healthy.
Caleb Williams in November is four and oh seven touchdowns,
no picks, third high rated quarterback in PFF and I
thought about this this morning. As quarterbacks over the last
(39:06):
decade have gotten far more athletic, I mean I grew
up mostly well. I mean the Go Go go five
years ago, and then go back ten years. It was Peyton,
it was Brady, it was breathed, it was it was
a pocket game. As the NFL is changing and more
(39:26):
great athletes are playing quarterback, should we not then judge
quarterbacks differently on completion percentage? Now I've said I like
my quarterbacks like I like my furniture, big and hard
to move. So I never bought into this tiny quarterback's work.
It's one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan
(39:48):
of Tua. I'm not a I was never you know,
you know Johnny Manzil. I like Bryce Young. I like
quarterbacks were big, thick, trunky and complain weather and can
take hits. But when I hear about completion percentage, I'm
just I'm asking the question. It's more of an analytical question.
(40:09):
When you grow up with Breeze and Manning and Brady
and Eli, it was a different era. Now the position
has changed. Now, the offensive coaches are different. Now it's
about going forward on fourth down and not kicking field goals.
Should we not look at quarterbacks like Bone Knicks and
(40:29):
Caleb Williams who are hyper? I mean, bone Nicks is
the most underrated athlete at quarterback in the elite, and
Caleb's got all sorts of horsepower. So why should I
be so beholden do sixty two and a half percent
completion percentage, which has always been my sort of line.
You can't be below that and be elite. I mean,
go look at Andrew Luck. I loved Andrew. Look, Andrew
(40:51):
Luck was sort of the starting point of maybe we
got to get over interceptions and high completion percentage rate.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying when I
look at bow and Caleb all it gets pushed back.
Here's what I know. One of them's at number one
seed that's great in the fourth quarter, and the other
one increasingly great in the fourth quarter. Sean McVay said it.
(41:14):
Analytics people have all the answers, but none of the accountability.
I want wins. I'm not as tied up on completion
percentage and passer rating as I feel like I was
like five or six years ago. I want wins. I
want athletes. I want playmaking. I want the Bault down
the field,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here we go our two and a Tuesday. It is
Thanksgiving weeks starting Thursday. Great NFL and college football, Ohio
State and Michigan Cowboys, and the Chiefs lines and the Packers. Well,
we do this every Tuesday. It's getting easier. I think
(00:50):
we've reached the point I kind of know what everybody
is and I know what they're not. So let's not
waste any time before we get to Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Here is our Herd hierarchy on a Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Heard Hierarchy time. Now go the top ten NFL teams
according to College number ten.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Okay, listen, I'm gonta put the Bears in here eight
and one over their last nine games. Their defense leads
the NFL in interceptions and takeaways. They have twenty four takeaways.
I don't think they're a great defensive team, but they
take when the balls in the air, they fight for.
They're also the second best rush team offense. Number six.
(01:31):
I don't think Ben Johnson and Caleb are a finished product.
This team wins close games. Same thing I say about Denver.
There is value in that Chiefs did at last year.
I think teams that win close games are tight locker rooms.
Bears at ten. Number nine the Ravens. Obviously, Lamar Jackson
(01:51):
is not one hundred percent brought pretty last night, no velocity,
toe injury. He won't say anything. Lamar won't say anything.
Fifth straight win. Their defense right now since Week seven
is the number one defense in the league. They're not pretty,
They're out of rhythm. They're a little broken offensively. I
always say I put Baltimore in the top ten because
I just respect the culture, the ownership, the coach, the
(02:15):
front office. I don't know how good they are, but
they make the list.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Number eight.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Green Bay. Here's what's weird. For the first time in forever,
it's just a defensive store. Their offense is conservative, their
defense is excellent. At home, opponents score thirteen points a game.
That's the best home defense in the league. They've held
opponents under twenty points in four straight games. They have
a pass rush. Their offense does not give it away.
(02:45):
This is rare. It's a boring Green Bay Packer team
led by their defense. Okay, and we look at all
these offensive receivers and all these stars and we're like, oh,
I don't understand it. It's just a different Packer team.
But it's a good one. They're eight. Number seven the
Lions third game with two hundred plus rushing yards. Jamir
Gibbs is like fired out of a cannon. The guy's unbelievable.
(03:10):
Their defense, though, major problem. They give up chunk play.
They gave up ten catches of over twenty yards to
Jamis Winston. But they can control the game. They've got
a home run hitter in the backfield. They've got a
culture creator and an accurate thrower. They're unimpressive and uninspiring,
(03:33):
not as good as last year. Number seven, number six
the Chiefs Listen lead the NFL in yards per game.
It's not pretty. Yeah, they could have been five and six,
but they held the Colts to season lows in points, totally, yards,
and first downs. They're good at home, they're not as
good on the road because they're not a great team.
(03:55):
But they're a good team, and they're won of four
teams to rank top ten, only four in the league,
top ten in all major four major categories, scoring offense,
total offense, scoring defense, total defense, well coached, smartly quarterback.
I have them at six, number five, one inch behind Philadelphia, which,
(04:18):
like Baltimore, has a broken offense. Sjalen Hurts attended thirty
attempted thirty nine throws against the Cowboys. That's about double
what people in Philadelphia are comfortable with. Nine of their
eleven games have been decided by one score. But I
can't hold it against them because that was the case
with Kansas City last year. They have a culture, they've
got athletes. I trust them in big spots. They just
(04:41):
had a disastrous second half against a hot Cowboy offense.
Lamb Pickens Dack five. Number four Seattle the one team
I would not want to play in the playoffs. Young, confident, aggressive,
great on the road. Seattle highest ro percentage in the league,
(05:02):
and they love to throw the ball down the field
and number three in point differential. They're gonna go in
as a wild card team, and they'll be the only
wild card team that, honestly, I mean I would argue
their roster could be better than the team that wins
the division. They're a little more mistake prohem than the Rams,
(05:23):
but I have them at four.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Number three.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
The Patriots played like crap and one on the road.
That's pretty good. The offensive line, now it's a little
banged up, but they've only allowed three sacks over the
last three games. They just don't have a fundamental flaw.
If they score twenty points, they're ten to zero. Best
record in the NFL. I think Josh McDaniel offensive coordinator
once again quietly, just like with Brady, is really I mean,
(05:50):
he is the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain for
this offense. They just call and perform a really smart
offensive game play every Sunday, Number two Denver. Here's why
there are certain stats you can't.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Ignore.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
They lead the NFL with a plus thirty six sack differential.
They have the number one ranked offensive line. They allow
four point four yards of play, easily the best in
the league. They get four and a half sacks the
game now way too many penalties, more than any in
the league. I could see them beating themselves. They have
(06:30):
terrible halves and are inconsistent, but there are stats in
this league that tell me you're going to win multiple
playoff games. Oh yeah, they got a Hall of Fame
level head coach.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Number one.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean, honestly, the Rams, they're number one in everything.
Seven of their nine wins have come against teams with
the winning records. They're blowing people out. Tampa is not
a bad team. They scored thirty one in the first half.
They don't turn it over, they never get penal life,
they take leads. Number one scoring offense, number one scoring
defense during this six game stretch. Let me tell you something.
(07:05):
Nate Lanman, the inside linebacker, stole him from Atlanta. Devonte Adams,
free agent, stole him. I mean, it's just incredible what
they've done. I mean, they went and got the corner
from Washington Forbes. He looks like a number one corner.
What an off season of acquisitions for very reasonable prices.
(07:28):
There we go. Let's bring in Nick, right. I'm interested
to see what Nick has to say about this. I
think Green Bay is hard to get your arms around
because our entire life, green Bay's been an offensive story
and this one they're actually a defensive story, and we're
all like they're no good, no they're good. They're just
different anybody that jump out to you.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
A few things. First of all, good hierarchy. I like
it a lot. I am a little surprised at the
lack of inclusion for the Bills with the inclusion.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Of the Ravens.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
So I understand the concerns about the Bills, you know,
many of which I've been raising for five years. However,
the Ravens have not played a sixty minute football game
where they're good on both sides of the ball once
all year, zero times all season. And it appears whatever
(08:22):
magic elicks or the defense took to get good, they
took it from the offense, which now is not good.
And I'm not a doctor, but Lamar's injuries going from
in chronological order hamstring to need to ankle to now
tow feel like now maybe after the tow there's nowhere
else to go.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
He's just healthy. But that's concerning to me.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
I would probably put the Bills where you have the
Ravens the Packers. The defense is awesome. I don't trust
Jordan Love at the moment. I know he's got a
lot upside, I don't trust him, and I'm interested in
why you don't have the Niners on their cut.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Okay, okay, a prime example. So you ever seen brock
Perty's Monday Night football numbers? Five touchdowns, eleven pick, seventy
five passer rating. He is not a good cold weather quarterback.
We know that Seattle is gonna make the playoffs, Philadelphia
is gonna make the playoffs, Green Bay is gonna make
the playoff, Chicago's gonna make the playoffs, and he's gonna
go on the road. So my point is, I've never
(09:23):
thought of, Let mean, let's be honest about brock Purty.
You and I feel the same thing. Saula's done an
unbelievable job. McCaffrey might as well be Walter Payton. He's
the whole offense you don't trust. If I don't trust
your quarterback at least earlier or late, I can't have
you in that. I mean, you feel that way, don't
you Listen?
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Here's the deal. I set you up to go on
that rant just so I can be like, I agree
with all of it, and you and I you and
I never never wavered when the lunatic fringe was like,
you're just.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
Being unfair if you.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Don't acknowledge brock is a top five quarterback That was
said by allegedly credible people. Folks are like, oh, it's
draft pick bias. Why will you give brock Purdy his flowers? Oh,
he's a bargain at fifty million a year.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
You and I held the line Colin cowhard.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
And now last year we saw brock Purty without all
the fancy weapons take a dip. This year we got
the real science lab experiment of I don't know what
if you threw god call it mac Jones in there,
how they do?
Speaker 6 (10:32):
The answer is just fine. And now he's out here.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
You know, this is his second in the last less
than two years, his second three interception half.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
This is his sixth.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Three interception game in the last three years. Brock Purty,
when he was content being a game manager in the
Shanahan brilliant system, was just fine. Yeah, Rock Purty trying
to be like I'm gonna show everybody what I can
do is a disaster waiting to happen. He threw three
(11:07):
picks in the first half, and he was very fortunate
it was not five if I were the Niners, because
I here's the thing. As long as mccaffery's healthy, Shanahan's
calling plays and Big Bob Solas dialing up that defense.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
They're scary.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
I'm one more Purdy game like that away from going
back to mac Jones and dealing with the contract stuff
in the offseason.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, how about that. I'm gonna throw this at you.
Is it possible now? I said when they traded Micah,
I said, it's good for Green Bay. They need a
closer because they lead games late. Dallas doesn't. Dallas needs
draft picks because look at Philadelphia Rams Lions, you just
don't have the players. Well, you look at Jerry now,
(11:54):
they still have two first round picks. Don't need a
quarterback in a half the league does in the next draft,
which is the quarterback draft. Uh, you can't run them
anymore because Quinn Williams now looks like Pro Bowl Quinn Williams.
Kenny Clark's good. They've got over shown back who was
a monster at Texas and now is a monster. He's
healthy with Dallas, and they're probably gonna get Caleb Downs
in an edge rusher. Do we owe Jerry an apology?
(12:16):
They stole George Pickens. They got incredible value for Micah.
Their pass rush is third in the league in pressures.
Do we all owe Jerald Wayne Jones senior Neapoleon.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
No, no, we don't, because here's the other way to
look at it. You're right, they do have and you
always do this. You're like, they have two first round picks,
which is true, but they one of them is their own.
They were always gonna have one, so it's one additional
first round pick now that they've made the Quentinn Williams trade.
My counterpoint would be this, had Jerry's ego and negotiating
(12:53):
tactics not cost them Micah Parsons, they wouldn't be in
a position where they are ten percent to make the playoffs, despite.
Speaker 6 (13:03):
Having Dak Prescott playing.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
The best football of his life and right now, up
to this point this season, the best wide receiver duo
in football.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
They are.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
If I don't have a vote on anything.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
For NFL awards, if I did, Dak Prescott would be
my second team All Pro quarterback. Right now, It'd be
Stafford first team All Pro, Dak Prescott's second team All Pro.
And they're five to five and one because up until
two weeks ago, they had the worst defense in football.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
So I don't think they had to have that.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
And I still think if the net net of the
trade is you traded away Micah and you got Quinn
Williams and one additional first round pick, which is it
actually probably got a little bit less than that, but
call it that. I think that's a loss for Dallas.
I think I think Quinn Williams is a excellent player.
I think Mica is a Hall of Fame player, and
(14:00):
I think that's the difference. So no, I don't owe
Jerry an apology. George Pickens trade was good, though, And
as happy as Jerry is about the George Pickens production,
he's even happier that he now has because they didn't
have a star to get in a messy contract battle
with this offseason because everyone was locked up, and now
they do, so that's kind of, you know, we got
(14:22):
a two.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
For the price of one.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
In Jerry's book, Okay, I said this about Shoulder, I
was surprised he dropped in the draft. I like my
quarterbacks to be intense and obsessed. I just that's my thing.
They get goofyed, they get a little Johnny Manziel or
cam or Baker or Shoulder who's kind of fun and
a little loose. It's not my thing, but I will
(14:44):
say this, he takes swings. I watched them against the Raiders,
and I'm like, well, that's the Colorado guy. Dylan Gabriel,
I said this, Nobody gets rich with a four oh
one K. Dylan Gabriel is not even a four oh
one K. He's the savings bond your grandma gave you.
But you can't win being small and safe and making
coaches happy. I think there's value in the fact that
(15:07):
the players like Shauduur. That's what I saw.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
What's say ups, I think this is a very simple
decision that you start Shadoor if you can for the
rest of the season. And that's not because I'm a
huge Shadoor guy. I didn't love him coming out of school.
I said on this show when he was projected to
go in the top five that I could see him
slipping out of the first round that Pittsburgh trade. People
(15:33):
a drawing about should Pittsburgh trade up for him, and
I said, listen, I think he'll just be available when
Pittsburgh's picking at like twenty one wherever they were. So
I'm not a huge fan of Shador the player. I
actually people were criticizing his personality. I have less of
problem with that. I have more problem with I just
don't know if he is NFL starting quarterback caliber. With
(15:56):
that said, there is a chance shad Or Sanders is
going to be an above average NFL starter for ten years.
There is a bigger chance. I would put that at
like five percent. There's like a ten percent chance that
shoud Or Sanders is just an average NFL starter for
(16:16):
ten years.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
I think there is.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
And I know this sounds mean, I don't mean it
to a zero percent chance. Dylan Gabriel is above average
NFL starter, and I think there is a close to
zero percent chance Dylan Gabriel is a longtime starter. Dylan
Gabriel was drafted, in my eyes, to be a more
than competent backup, stop gap quarterback. That's fine, is a
third round pick. So if I'm Cleveland that has started
(16:42):
forty two different quarterbacks in the last quarter century, I
need to get as much info as possible on did
we get you know, a diamond in the rough? So
to speak with Shador, I would bet against it, but
it's possible. I don't think it's possible that Dylan Gabriel
is the Brown starter in four years. It's possible shadoor Is,
(17:07):
so I'd want to see him play.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Caleb Williams, It's remarkable to me that a team that's
six and one in close games is on a heater,
number two in rushing, number one in big plays, wins
every close games, is a seven point dog at Philly,
a team that's broken. The Bengals were a seven and
a half point dog to number one seed New England
(17:32):
without Flak or Jamar Chase. It tells me the Desert
just doesn't buy Chicago. I'm sorry, but last night Cuddy
Carolina without Warner or Bosa was a seven point dog
to San Francisco. That is a massive number, and it's
telling me the Sharps don't buy Chicago. What does it
tell you.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Well, listen, I think that maybe the public or Vegas,
you know, one or the other maybe slightly over values
Philly's offense right now, because I don't think Philly's team
is broken, but I think Philly's offense has massive issues.
And while AJ Brown is an awkward messenger, I think
(18:13):
his message is correct.
Speaker 6 (18:15):
So I think that Philly should not.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Be more than a six point favorite over a good team.
So the fact that there are a seven point favorite
means Vegas isn't buying.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
That Chicago is a good team.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And I understand they have a negative point differential, and
that's obviously concerning, but they eight and three, and I
don't want to be reductive, but eight and three is
eight and three, And more importantly is this. I do
think Caleb has gotten better month by month. Is he's
still behind the schedule you or I would have set
(18:51):
for him the day he declared for the draft two
years ago? Sure, but I do think he is slowly
but surely improving. He's not taking the sacks anymore, even
though we took one terrible one in the end zone
on Sunday. And I, you know, I don't know where
you're It sounds like I know where you're leaning on this.
But I like Bears plus seven, and I think Philly
(19:14):
is in a precarious spot as far as they last year,
when they were having issues on offense, they could just
press and spam the Saquon button. Saquon's four hundred and
fifty touches shockingly are showing up looking like a player
that at four hundred and fifty touches. So I don't
(19:35):
know what the quick fix Philly has is. I know
everyone's mad at the offensive coordinator, Pattullo. Luckily they're head
coach that everybody loves nowadays. He's an offensive mind. Why
doesn't he fix it? Sounds like the easiest solution. But
so I like Chicago in this spot as well.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Colin, So I saw kind of a veiled shot at
me as your mentor. It was hurtful a couple of
weeks ago on Lebron, and so I said, and I
was a little to.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Your check mentor. But I mean it's you know, my
relationship with Lebron. I I love you, Colin, but I
mean there's there is a loyalty factor or player.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
But go ahead, so I said, I know Lebron is smart, calculated,
he'll walk in. He'll be fine to Utah games a
lot of rest, I said, But here's the thing right
now in the world, Luca is the best offensive player,
and I want his usage rake pretty darn close to
forty five percent. He's in his athletic skinny, Luca should
(20:29):
have the ball in his hands forty percent of the time.
This is not Oklahoma City with a deeper roster. I
want Austin Reeves also in his prime, and he also
has a shot creator. I want him to have it
about twenty five percent of the time. That's it. That's
about sixty five percent. Seventy percent really needs it. This
My question isn't whether Lebron for a game against Utah
(20:50):
two can acquiesce, but at thirty percent usage is about
what it looks like he should be. And I think
over the course of the season he's never been. You know,
he's been at least tied for the best player on
the team, usually easily the best. Don't you worry at
some point Lebron could be like, hey, I ran the
(21:12):
league for twenty years, give me the ball.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
So I would worry about that if the following weren't.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
I'd worry about that.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
If he's still had counting stats he was trying to
run down. He doesn't. He has all the records. I
would worry about that. If it's like, oh, man, I
need one more all NBA team.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
To break the record.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
No, he broke that record seven seasons ago. I'd worry
about that if it were that he was still, you know,
able to be in the argument for best player in
the world. But he's not, and he knows it, and
so because of all of those factors, because he set
(21:55):
himself a year ago. At this point everything is extra credit.
And because he came back to the Lakers a because
he still loves playing basketball. There wasn't a better place
for him and b I think he believes, well, we're
not the favorites, we're not even the second favorites. But
(22:15):
if something happens to Oklahoma City and it's open, we're
live in that spot.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
I think he will be fine with it.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
I also think for the Lakers being able to deploy
quite simply the smartest player in the history of the
sport as something of you know, jack of all trades,
here's what we need tonight could be very, very valuable
for JJ Reddick and so I am. And to be clear,
(22:48):
I was not subtweeting you or taking subtle shots at you.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
I think what I said.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Was and I quote my dear friend and Mint were
Colin Coward is out of his bleeping mind on this.
I think that's what I said. It was not supposed
to be like, wait, was he talking about me? No,
you're I think you're crazy about that. Lebron's not gonna
fit because Lebron can fit anywhere and he said as much.
And by the way, I'm gonna be there, maybe not
(23:14):
quite with Colin Cower and court side seats, but maybe
just one rowback of that Friday night to watch it
in person. I'll be in LA for Thanksgiving, so I
don't know if you're in Chicago or LA, but maybe
I'll see you.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
But I'll give you an on the.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Ground scouting report from Lakers MAVs on Friday night.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I appreciate that, my friend. First thing's first. Happy Thanksgiving
to you and the fam. Nick right, thank you for
stopping by. Yeah, I think I think there's three quarterbacks.
There are either franchise guys bridge guys like Jamis Winston's
a great bridge guy, fun, capable, productive, little goofy to
build around. But there's franchise guys. We know who they are.
(23:50):
There are bridge guys. That's Bryce Young is starting to
look and feel like a bridge guy, a starter for
a year, and then there's backups. I I think you're
getting to a point with brock perty he's somewhere between
franchise and bridge, and last night he looked like a
bridge guy. I think it's come. I think the people
in Carolina won't admit it. I think Bryce ELM's feeling
(24:11):
like a bridge guy, like, I don't know if we
can go all would you sign him to an extension?
I mean, look at his passer rating week to week
to week. It's just all over the map. One of
the things about being a franchise guy, I get the
same quarterback every week. Josh Allen doesn't run for six
touchdowns every week. I get the same guy every week.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
One more Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Like, Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire
with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing
the same tired narratives down your throat every day.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Straight Fire gives.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
You honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate
stats to help you win big at the sportsbook, and
all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen
to Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, it is that time of the year when the
truth comes out. College and pro football, Ohio State, Michigan.
I got it at about thirty to thirteen, maybe thirty seventeen,
maybe thirty three seventeen Buckeyes. J Mack with the news,
heard on the news.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
When we have time later, ask me a question about Michigan,
Ohio State. I have a crazy staff for you. But
right now we got to go to the NBA column
because this is a big issue for the league right now. Injuries,
this is not good. You know, quarterback injuries can rip
apart the NFL Star injuries are killing the NBA. Colin
There was an analysis done of last year's NBA All
Star Team. For All NBA Team, half of the players
(26:10):
from last year are injured in street clothes, out of action. Now,
what exactly is causing all these injuries? Here we have
it on the screen. Look at all these stars who
are currently down and that does not include Lebron who
was down is now back. But like Jannis Tatum, Hallie,
I mean Wembin Yama, like, it's really not great for
the league. The games have been fantastic on a nightly basis.
(26:33):
The league is being is putting out are product.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Some of these guys are just older players. Curry, Butler,
kawhi Yn.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
Curry is still an All NBA player. Butler's an All
NBA caliber player.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I didn't say they weren't. They're older players, and they
don't want to play eighty two regular season games, and
they have the power that they don't have to.
Speaker 7 (26:53):
So Steve Kerr is pushing a narrative that it has
to do with the pace of the league.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
If you go look at it, it's funny.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
Nobody wants to do this, but that eighties nineties NBA.
Go look at like a Michael Jordan game from the nineties.
It's walk it up the court, pound it down in
the post, Jordan.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Ten seconds with his back to the.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Basket, dribbling. It's like boring and slow. You go to
the modern NBA, it's pace in space so fast. You
have to have a deep roster, which is why OKC
is thriving right now, best record in the league. Yeah,
they got like ten guys.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Now I think, I think you've got a lot of
older stars. I mean again, these guys have played in
a lot of games. BAM gonna buy you. Joel mb
Dame Lillard, Tatum plays eighty two when he's healthy. Jannis Butler,
Kawhi Curry, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving. So a lot of
these guys are old guys, and so it doesn't bother me,
but it it And I do think pace and space
(27:44):
is the league. So I think Steve Kurves onto it.
Speaker 7 (27:46):
Yeah, so tonight, Lakers, paper Clips, if you want to
jop on the private jet and come out, I could
probably get you a ticket to it. Kawhi vers Luca,
we know that's always a great show, but listen, it's
not great when your stars are down. I do think
I'm with you. Like sitting out a few games to
rest up for the playoff. I got no problem with that.
On I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Let's move on to mister Pickens.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
George Pickens one of the best stories in the league, Yes,
in the league at wide receiver. The season he was
a absolute heist by Jerry Jones. Congratulations, and Jerry Jones
seems to think they want this guy long term.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
We've got two number one receivers and that's just exceptional.
Right at the time, when guess what, our quarterback is
probably the best that he's ever been there's nothing that
we can gain from the speculating and conjecture. The bottom
(28:44):
money is that we're in good shape. He's playing better
than we could have even anticipated, and he's an outstanding
let me emphasis this again, outstanding teammate.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
He's not wrong, thick and so far, so far.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
When they offer him a franchise tag, he may not
be happy with that.
Speaker 7 (29:03):
Well somebody, Uh, we'll get to that in a second,
but uh, somebody on Instagram hit me with this and said,
j Mack, did you see that Pickens has more receiving
yards than everyone on the Pittsburgh Steelers, the team he
was last year.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Combined Colin, That is a little crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
The one thing about Dallas and Jerry Jones, and maybe
it's just the showmanship. Jason Garrett, offensive coach, Mike McCarthy
offensive coach shoddy, shoddy offensive coach Jerry is leaning offense.
I think the smart owners in the league see the
value of that. And Dak deserves a lot of credit.
He has noisy players in his career, Dez and Zeke
(29:42):
and Pickens. Was it's all quiet on the Dak front.
Everything always works with Dak.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
Well, I'll just say this, you know now, let's get
to the contract. Colin Pickens ain't gonna be happy with
a franchise tag and.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I know it's gonna be like twenty eight twenty nine mil.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
He don't want that. He wants the long term security.
He wants said guaranteed money that Tyreek Hill and all
these superstars got. He's going to be ticked.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Off at that.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
Okay, And remember what ticked off Pickens was like in Pittsburgh. Oh,
I remember we ran the plays. He would like he's
supposed to block, he would just jog out of the
block and like pretend like he's blocking. He checks out
pretty quickly. I would just you know, be ready Dallas,
because this offseason could.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Be rocky with the superstar Pickts.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
Final story, Colin is the Kansas City Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes.
You know, Mahomes was having a good year. He's kind
of not been awesome in the last few weeks. He
is the only quarterback, however, in the NFL with a
winning record in games that his team has trailed by
double digits. Obviously, that's a great, you know thing to
have when you're down. We have a little chart here
(30:43):
of some of the other quarterbacks when trailing by ten
or more point.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Jim Tebow auto Graham and Tom Brady auto Graham, Auto Graham.
I don't think war shoes. I think I think they
played in flipflop. Listen, Mahomes is great in comeback.
Speaker 7 (31:00):
I don't know that I can give Mahomes all the
credit for the Colt smeltdown. I mean, listen, the defense
stopped Indy, and Indy stopped running Jonathan Taylor, you know,
psyching with playing scared for whatever.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Mahomes is a great comeback guy.
Speaker 7 (31:12):
Look at that line Colin three and a half against Dallas.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Oh, I like Dallas is good at home, but I like,
can't I can't wait to watch that. That game is
gonna get forty five million people. I think it's gonna
get forty to forty five. I'm not not pray, I'm
not kidding here. Mahomes Dak Cowboys, Chiefs. Well there's Nathan
else you do, I mean forty four million people?
Speaker 4 (31:34):
So do you think Chiefs win this?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Interesting?
Speaker 7 (31:39):
Okay, no pick yet from me, but headlines Maniana, that's
tomorrow in Spanish, I know J Mack with the news.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Ryan daya the Buck guys talking about the big game
coming up. Lane Kiffin, I mean this just cracks me up.
He could be the greatest coach in the history of
old myths. He already is box checked. Now he's looking
maybe for a bigger check.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I get it. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd weekdays in noon eastern nine am Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
The greatest drivelry in sports is here.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
Top rank defending national champion Ohio State heads to the
Big House looking to snap Michigan's five game win streak
in the game. It all starts at nine am Eastern
with a special three hour Big noon kickoff live from
Ann Arbor. Then it's Michigan Ohio State at.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Noon only on Fox.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Ryan Day.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
That a rough little stretch against Michigan. They're beating everybody
at step Michigan. Here's a little Ryan Day talking about
the Wolverines and trying to snap that losing streak against Michigan.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I feel prepared, feel ready. I feel like the guys
that we have going going up there are you know,
it's a great group of guys and We're gonna be
locked in, focused, concentrating on doing our job, and you
just can't wait to, you know, enjoy being together in
another person in other people stadium, you know. I mean
that's to me, something that's different than playing at home
(33:26):
and going into another team stadium and winning a game.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Is there's nothing better than that. Listen if you go
they lost to Michigan last year, then they played Tennessee
in the playoff. From that Tennessee game on to today,
easily the best team in the country. Last year, offensively,
it just looked different, and this year defensively they don't
look like a college team. So it's somewhere between pro
(33:53):
and college linebackers, unbelievable corners, safeties. I mean when they
went out to Seattle and like Washington at home, it
couldn't even compete. It's a whole different. I mean, go
look at that arch Manning game, like they're intimidating people.
You can't get off off the blocks they I mean,
the windows are tiny. Matt Patricia, the scheme, I think
(34:14):
Michigan is going to struggle to move the ball, struggle
to move the ball. So I like Ohio State, everybody's
always afraid to say, in games like this it's gonna
be a blowout. Michigan better fight like mad in that
first quarter because if Michigan's behind and has to throw,
is going to get ugly. Michigan needs to score first.
(34:38):
By the way, j Mack, you said you had a
great stat on this game.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
So last year's game, Ohio State lost thirteen to ten.
I'm looking at the Ohio State box score. I'm going
to read off some names for you. These were the
running backs Ohio State had last year against Michigan. Kushawn Judkins,
he's currently starring in the NFL. Trayvon Treveon Henderson, he's
currently starring in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
They could do nothing against the Michigan defense.
Speaker 7 (35:05):
This was the Ohio State wide receiver room. Carnel Tate,
who's a stud and probably a first round pick this year,
imeca Ibuka, Jeremiah Smith, and Trayvon Henderson.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
They scored ten points. Colin. This is more about Ohio
State's dominant They got guys every year.
Speaker 7 (35:23):
If you go back two years, look at the depth chart,
it's insane. Ohio State has way more talent. How are
they coming up so empty in these last couple of games.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
That's the only thing that scares me. I have I have.
I'm afraid to bett Ohio State here. I'm afraid.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, well, one of us is one of us is.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
Not, but there's no logic behind it.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I generally don't. I've bet this game a feud. What
is the number right now?
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Last year they were like three touchdown favorites practically and
vomited all over themselves a lot.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
I haven't even look because I'm afraid to bet Aha State.
I mean, they can't be that big of a number.
Michigan this year is better than they were last year.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I can't unsee the Michigan game against USC. I can't
unsee it. I'm sorry, I can't. I will, I gotta.
This is one thing I've been saying this this this
week of college football is going to be crazy. It's
just I mean, starting Thursday, the games are outrageous. Lane,
(36:21):
A lot of people that write for newspapers are old
and cranky in no particular order. Sometimes they're cranky and old,
sometimes they're old and cranky. But what's happening to college football? Lane?
Kiffin's right, it's now pro football on Saturday, and this
idea that Lane's not being loyal. The players aren't loyal anymore.
Here's Lane on everybody saying, well, what will the players say? Lane?
(36:45):
If you leave you recruited them, what will the players?
What about the players? And here's Kiffin. I've said it before.
Speaker 9 (36:54):
It's a different generation, guys. I know it's different than
what we were in when players couldn't even players chose
to go play for their home stage a lot and
all that. This is a different generation. They all can
leave every year. A lot of that is financially based,
and so they don't think the traditional way that years
ago about their coach and what's going to go on
(37:15):
with him next year. That that's it's not how they
think anymore.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
They don't And he's right, and it's up to college
football to create rules where you can't poach a coach
because be mad at LSU in Florida. Don't be mad
at Lane Kiffin. So I've been talking about this. There
is a lot of Here's what's funny. Everybody knows Drake
may is really good, nobody doubts that. But the other
(37:41):
two young quarterbacks that you're getting a ton of pushback
on Bo Nicks and Caleb Williams now everybody and myself included.
Bow got off to a choppy, choppy start this year.
He regressed good against Kansas City, but he regressed. That's fair.
They always call it sophomore slump. Everybody's got film. Defensive
(38:03):
coordinators have an entire offseason. Here's throws he makes, Here's
throws he doesn't. Now In fairness, Sean Payton's never been
good the first four to five weeks of the season,
so I mean some of that is Sean experiments. He
puts a lot on the quarterbacks back and bow Nicks
is still young. The other quarterback is Caleb Williams and
(38:24):
his accuracy. He's under sixty percent in four straight games.
But in both instances. The reason I defend both bow
Knicks and Caleb Williams, they're good late and they win
close games, and there is value in that. I mean, yesterday,
Bryce Young had multiple opportunities to steal that game. He
(38:44):
couldn't do it. Look at Caleb Williams in November. This
is worse. Whether fewer of you guys around, you're healthy.
Caleb Williams in November is four and oh seven touchdowns,
no picks, third high rated quarterback in PFF and I
thought about this this morning. As quarterbacks over the last
(39:06):
decade have gotten far more athletic, I mean I grew
up mostly well. I mean the Go Go go five
years ago, and then go back ten years. It was Peyton,
it was Brady, it was breathed, it was it was
a pocket game. As the NFL is changing and more
(39:26):
great athletes are playing quarterback, should we not then judge
quarterbacks differently on completion percentage? Now I've said I like
my quarterbacks like I like my furniture, big and hard
to move. So I never bought into this tiny quarterback's work.
It's one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan
(39:48):
of Tua. I'm not a I was never you know,
you know Johnny Manzil. I like Bryce Young. I like
quarterbacks were big, thick, trunky and complain weather and can
take hits. But when I hear about completion percentage, I'm
just I'm asking the question. It's more of an analytical question.
(40:09):
When you grow up with Breeze and Manning and Brady
and Eli, it was a different era. Now the position
has changed. Now, the offensive coaches are different. Now it's
about going forward on fourth down and not kicking field goals.
Should we not look at quarterbacks like Bone Knicks and
(40:29):
Caleb Williams who are hyper? I mean, bone Nicks is
the most underrated athlete at quarterback in the elite, and
Caleb's got all sorts of horsepower. So why should I
be so beholden do sixty two and a half percent
completion percentage, which has always been my sort of line.
You can't be below that and be elite. I mean,
go look at Andrew Luck. I loved Andrew. Look, Andrew
(40:51):
Luck was sort of the starting point of maybe we
got to get over interceptions and high completion percentage rate.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying when I
look at bow and Caleb all it gets pushed back.
Here's what I know. One of them's at number one
seed that's great in the fourth quarter, and the other
one increasingly great in the fourth quarter. Sean McVay said it.
(41:14):
Analytics people have all the answers, but none of the accountability.
I want wins. I'm not as tied up on completion
percentage and passer rating as I feel like I was
like five or six years ago. I want wins. I
want athletes. I want playmaking. I want the Bault down
the field,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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