April 24, 2023 • 30 mins
Bestselling author Jeff Benedict joins Colin in studio to talk about his new book LeBron, covering the superstar’s life from his childhood in Akron all the way through his NBA career, becoming the NBA’s all-time leading scorer.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
As jmac Well knows, I don't generally like sports movies,
but I love sports books. Jeff Benedict, sitting alongside us now,
is a New York Times best selling author of sixteen books,
TV and film producer, executive producer on the HBO documentary Tiger,
who he wrote with our friend Arvin Katayan. He's got
a new book out, Lebron, I just finished it up.
(00:43):
There's so much depth and reporting here, so let's start
with this. Let's go back. You really get a sense
of now, Tiger was combative when you tried to do
the book. Brady was over the top, willing to Lebron
takeaway on you writing a book. You know, when you
go a mile deep on somebody. What's been the reaction.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm certainly not antagonistic at all. I mean, none of
these players at this level have any They don't owe
any journalist anything in terms of access or cooperation, and
I didn't. I never go in expecting a player to
participate for a biography of a living person. That's typically
doesn't happen. But Lebron didn't do anything to obstruct the
(01:31):
process to make it difficult. I mean it was from
my perspective, it was a pleasure to research and write.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So the Air Movie just came out. Much of that
is the story of Michael Jordan and the shoe deal.
So Lebron signs a shoe deal early. His idol was
Michael Jordan. The losers on that were Adidas and Rebok.
So we get we got a really behind the scenes
look in the Air movie at the pitch by a
(02:00):
converse to Michael Jordan's mother and the losers in that.
So let's go, what did Lebron do? He chooses Nike,
the losers are rebuking Adidas. What did he say to them?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So here's the thing, Colin, that's so great. I love
the Air Movie.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But what's so different in Lebron's case is Sonny Vaccaro
did not have a relationship with Michael Jordan before signing him.
He built an incredible relationship with Lebron James and Gloria
James that started way before Lebron decided to go with Nike.
I think the Sonny Vacaro story with Lebron is it's
(02:36):
an incredible epic American story about about how they met.
I mean, basically, Sonny had guys that were almost like runners,
that were they were little scouts who were fined in
high school kids because they're funneling them to what was
then the greatest basketball camp in the country, Sonny's ABCD camp.
And when Lebron was a freshman, like that year after
(03:00):
Ron's freshman year, one of Sonny's guys, you know, they
meet at the Final four and he brings a VHS
tape like a video cassette to show Sonny this kid
that he's found in Akron named Lebron James. And so
all the guys in the suite are standing around the
TV watching this videotape and Sonny comes in and sees
(03:20):
these guys. He's like, what are you guys looking at?
And they go, you know, one of the guys is
this kid, you know, Lebron James. He's going to be
like the next Jason kid. Or whatever, and Sonny he's like, yeah, right,
you know. He comes over. He's squinting and looking at
the guy, looking at Lebron, and he's like, you can't
say anything. It looks like a peanut and it's just
because it was shot so poorly, you know. And they're like,
(03:41):
you got to invite him to your camp, and Sonny's like,
I can't invite him like camp. He's a ninth grader,
he's a freshman. Within two years, Lebron gets basically what
amounts to a private audition in the Bay Area. He
flies out there to play in front of Sonny because
Sonny wouldn't go to Akron. Sonny comes into the g
h they met beforehand, and like the hotel cafe, it's
(04:04):
a great meeting. When Lebron and Gloria meet Sonny and
Pam Vaccaro, there's an instant connection. They get along right away.
And then that day he plays in front of Sonny
and part way through the game, Sonny just walks out
of the gym, doesn't say anything. People are thinking, oh no,
this is a disaster. He gets in the cab, hails
(04:26):
it to the airport, and part way there his wife
is asking him like why aren't you talking saying anything?
And Sonny says, I've never seen a player like that.
I mean, that's a huge statement from the guy who
signed Michael Jordan and then signed Kobe Bryant to major
sneaker deals. It sets up this great fight between the
(04:46):
big three sneaker companies, which Nike ultimately wins. And I
love it when Sonny, knowing he's going to lose, tells
Lebron get as much money as you can.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's just it's great.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Let's go to Lebron's idol, Michael Jordan. The first time
they meet. Where is it?
Speaker 5 (05:05):
So?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
It's off season, Lebron's just finished his sophomore year of
high school. He's playing in an AAU tournament Chicago. He's
got Maverick Carter with him and one of Michael's guys.
Keep in mind, Michael's in retirement at this point, He's
not in the NBA. One of Michael's guys approaches Maverick
and Lebron during the AU tournament in between games and
invites them to basically take a ride and go to
(05:27):
see Michael's private gym hoops in Chicago. They go, they
see it. It's you know, it's cool to go in.
They see the weights that Michael uses, and the guy
says to them, you guys should come back later this
summer stay at my place. Lebron can work out of
the gym for a few days. They have to ask
their moms to get permission to go, which is telling
(05:48):
a little bit about the character of Lebron and Maverick.
What they were like is their kids and their moms
are in their lives. This is a big deal. Their
moms give them permission. They go back and later that
summer and they work out, and Lebron does at one
That chapter is called a Different Floor because at one
point Lebron is invited to get on the floor with
(06:12):
players in the NBA Jerry Stackhouse an twin walker.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
These guys are big, long men.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
They're men, and when Lebron gets on the floor, it
looks smaller, even though dimensionally it's not. And he plays
that he can't stop anybody on defense, but he can score,
and the players all see that this sophomore, a sophomore
can score against them, and he's a good passer. At
the end of that day they all leave and go home.
(06:40):
Lebron being Lebron stays behind cleans up the gym with
the guy. They're leaving to go home. The next day,
Lebron has to be in high school for his first
day of his junior year. As he and Maverick are leaving,
Michael pulls up in the red sports car and gets out,
and it's the moment. It's like the kid meets the idol,
(07:01):
the idol meets the future, and Michael invites him back inside.
He doesn't give Lebron any advice, but he gives him
a cell phone number, And to me, it's like, this
is the moment where the future in the past.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Michael doesn't give out his phone number.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
But he gives it to Lebron.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And the next day Lebron is his first day of
his junior year of high school. Think about that. He
goes to school with that number in his pocket. Why
this is fascinating is because if you fast forward about
five six months, Lebron is going to meet Grant Wall
from Sports Illustrated in the locker room at the high school.
He doesn't know Grant Wall, never seen him, never met him.
(07:42):
Grant's not a big name yet at SI. He's got
like fifteen seconds to go up to Lebron total stranger
and pitch him on cooperating with him on a feature story.
He wants to profile him in the magazine. And I
interviewed Grant about this. It's a wonderful story. He didn't
know how to do it, and he finally just he
knew that Lebron and Maverick and another friend were going
(08:04):
to Cleveland that night to watch Michael, who's now on
the Wizards because he's come out of retirement, play the Cavaliers.
He knows they have tickets and they're going, so he
asks Lebron, would you let me drive you and your
friends to the game. And Lebron's got to decide whether
to get in the car with this stranger. That chapter's
called get in the car, and he without calling his mom,
(08:28):
without calling the coach over, he has no adult that
he turns to for advice. Within thirty seconds, he decides
to trust Grant enough to get in his car and
they drive to Cleveland and they get there and that night.
By now, six months after that initial meeting at Hoops, Drim, Jim,
Michael and Lebron have a relationship that's very different. It's
(08:52):
more mature, like when Michael comes up to Lebron after
the game in the tunnel. He says to him, you
know where's your mom doing? He knows the family by now.
The reason I think in Grant Wall's jaws just dropping
like he's this kid is a junior in high school
right now, and he's carrying on with Michael Jordan like
he knows him. Because he does. And I think it's
(09:15):
phenomenal because they're now going to call him the chosen One,
the air to air Jordan in the magazine. It all
started in a small private gym in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
There's been a couple of low points for Lebron. One
I think is a little overstated the decision which they
did give millions of dollars to a boys and girls club.
But be that as it may, it was clumsy. By
the way, that's the first chapter of his book, Jeff
Benedict's book. It's a fascinating chapter. You get details you'll
not get anywhere else. I mean, just just read chapter
(09:47):
one and that's the hook you'll be You'll be hooked.
You'll read the rest of the book. But what I
want to go to is when Lebron left Cleveland, they're
burning their you know, their their their decision there burning jerseys.
So he goes to Miami. Dan Gilbert pens a really
incendiary letter, which Dan Gilbert later regrets. It's all emotion.
(10:11):
It's juvenile for a billionaire, but I want to get
past Miami. Lebron is willing and capable of putting it
all aside. Four years later, when Dan Gilbert comes a
Mia culpa to meet Lebron to get him back to Cleveland.
I always thought that was remarkable. I don't know if
I could have done a bygone to be bygones.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Grudge holder, but that go back and read that letter,
it's almost remarkable. It went public. Take me to that
decision by Lebron to meet him and then choose to
go back home.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So a couple things. First of all, that's a screed that.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Wasn't written with a pen. It was written with a blowtorch.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I mean he burned every bridge that Lebron had to
Cleveland when he wrote and said those things. And then
to compound it later that night, he actually then talked
to a reporter from the Associated Press and went even
further than what he said in his letter. So by
the time Lebron lands in Miami at two or three
(11:15):
in the morning. He knows everything that Gilbert has said
about him. I interviewed a number of NBA executives who
are still in the league today, so they didn't want
to be named or quoted in the book, but what
the consensus was they were shocked, not so much that
Gilbert felt the way he felt, but that he actually
(11:35):
voiced it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That was the stunning thing because Lebron still had so
long to go in his career, like he's so he's
twenty five at that point.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
In the East, Yes, you're gonna have to go through Lebron.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It was just remarkable. And then four years later, when
Lebron decides to go back, by now his inner circle Maverick,
rich Paul, these guys are a lot more sophisticated and
grown up than they were even.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Just four years earlier. They've learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Rich Paul does an incredible job here that he doesn't
really get any credit for, but he was a navigator
in this situation. And to Lebron's credit, everyone around him
doesn't want him to go back to Cleveland, and they
don't really understand why he's willing to go back. Maverick
(12:27):
wasn't excited about it, and Lebron is this is where
I think you see the Lebron that's now a fully
formed man. And I don't I mean that in multiple ways, yes,
as a player, but also as an adult, as a businessman,
as a person who's capable of looking at the long
(12:49):
game and the long haul, which so few athletes really
are able to do in the moment. Lebron has always
had a long term view of his career and the
decisions he makes, The investment decisions he made with Warren
Buffett's guidance in the beginning, were long picture decisions, and
he does it here. And when he agrees to pen
(13:12):
an essay with Lee Jenkins from Sports Illustrated that says,
who am I to hold a grudge? That single sentence
You almost don't need to read the rest of that essay,
even though it's a fantastic essay, well penned, well thought out.
But that single sentence that Lebron put his name to
(13:34):
is you just go, Okay. The level of maturity that
you're seeing here is just different. There isn't maturity like
it in the NBA. Think about Pat Riley, who's finding
out through a phone call that Lebron's not coming back.
Riley's furious. I mean, this isn't good news. It's like
(13:56):
we were going to win a lot more championships. They
were primed to do it. They were built to do it.
Riley would have spent even more money to get more
role players. They could have just kept rolling. And it
didn't make sense to Riley or anybody else why Lebron
was doing this. He obviously wasn't motivated in that moment
to catch Michael. He was driven by something else. Because
(14:18):
if he just wanted to catch Michael and get six rings,
we'll just stay in Miami. That's the easy path. It's
all there. You're talking about going back to Cleveland a
team that stinks. I'm not saying they were kind of good.
They stunk. This is not a good team.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Kyrie Irving was viewed as a bust. They wouldn't stay healthy.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, he's going back there, But here was the difference.
Now that he's won in Miami. This is like Tom
Brady in two thousand and seven, after he's won three
Super Bowls? Why does Randy Moss go to New England?
He goes to play with Tom and Lebron does know
when he goes to Cleveland, there's guys like Kevin Love
(14:55):
who would never go to Cleveland, but he'd go to
play with Lebron. He is a magnet for talent. He
can get guys to go there, and he can take
a guy like Kyrie Irving and he can now be
the statesman, the teacher, the guy with the young stars
under his wing, and he does all those things.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I've always found it remarkable that if you're in the
public spotlight, you could be a politician, you could be
a talk show host, you could be a basketball player.
You're gonna step in it, you know. Lebron, you know,
I didn't take much of it his comments on China.
You know, for conservatives, that's just you know, red meat.
They're going to go after that. But by and large,
(15:44):
if you look at Lebron's childhood, he has been It's
really a remarkable American story that it's almost like Lebron
didn't have the cohesive family, so he is so loyal
to it? Are are What is it about his personality
(16:05):
that he doesn't seem there's no fomo, there's no fear
of missing out with him. It's I mean, it's it's
kind of unique, right.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I think so?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And when you know when I was when I was
crafting the early chapters as a narrative, not not later
when he's in the NBA. But my favorite part of
the whole book is the origin story. It's it's writing
the origin story because I kept trying to think of
a comparison a sports figure, who do I compare him to?
And I couldn't come up with anybody. The person I
(16:37):
thought of the most was actually Alexander Hamilton, you know,
an orphan an immigrant who comes to America and ends
up being George Washington's right hand man.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Like that is.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So sounds so fictional, so made up, so unbelievable, But
that's how Lebron's origin story is. I'm not suggesting that
being the greatest basketball player in the world is on
par with being a founding father.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I'm saying that if you look at the odds of
Lebron James becoming one of the most respected successful.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Known humans on Earth. If you start where he started,
that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
And to maintain it with very few missteps virtually impossible.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, virtually impossible. And I the worst thing that people
say about him is the way, not that he went
to Miami, but the way he announced it. Right, But
you know the benefit of time, if you step back
from that, it's now been thirteen years. As a biographer,
I look at that as actually, there was a lot
of smart things that happened there. This is where he
(17:47):
crosses over and really becomes interesting to the whole world.
Prior to that, he was a great basketball player that
everyone who follows basketball was interested in. After that, the
whole world was interested in this guy.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Also, after that, people started taking sides, yes pro or
anti Lebron. And I've said this before. You know, we
romanticize jfk or Reagan. How would they have dealt with
social media? Everybody great is now polarizing. Yes, there is
no non polarizing stars. It doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
No, but Lebron made a decision, a conscious decision that
Michael never made and Kobe didn't make, which is he
decided to step into the political arena and to me,
this is again, as a biographer, a lot more interesting
than basketball is that for the first seven years of
(18:45):
his career as a cavalier, he was actually a lot
like Michael in the sense that he did not step
over the line into the political sphere. Basketball and shoes
and fam Yeah, he stayed in the safe space when
he went to the Beijing Olympics, and he was under
tremendous scrutiny. Steven Spielberg and Lebron James were the two
targets of the political activism campaigns to get them to
(19:08):
speak out against China. Spielberg eventually stepped away. He was
supposed to choreograph the opening ceremonies. The pressure got too much,
he left. Lebron didn't leave, and then he got to
Beijing and he wouldn't speak out. Fast forward just a
couple months. Barack Obama's running for president. It's the fall
of two thousand and eight, and Jay Z is doing
(19:30):
three benefit concerts for Barack Obama, and the last ones
in Cleveland, and Lebron decides to come and he gets
up on stage at the queue, a full house, and
he tells everybody how important it is.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Uncle's aunts, moms, you.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Gotta vote, and he tells the arena who he's voting for,
Barack Obama, And he also made a political contribution to
his campaign, first time he'd ever done those things. And
once Obama's in the White House for eight years, Lebron
is visiting the White House, not just when they win championships.
He builds a relationship with Barack Obama. He learns from
(20:08):
him from modeling, and during those eight years you see
Lebron really grow fast in being able to deal with
things like gun violence, racism. He is taking steps that
are so affirmative that by the time Donald Trump comes
around in twenty sixteen, he is a completely different person,
(20:29):
way more. He's just so smart about how to deal
with things. So when Trump is caught on tape saying
these incredibly hideous things about women and how he treats
him and what he gets away with the things I
can't even repeat on the air, and that tape gets
released right before his debate with Hillary Clinton, and Trump
tries to dismiss it by saying, oh, that's just locker
(20:51):
room talk.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
That was his quote, locker room talk.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Lebron is now the most visible athlete in the world,
and he comes right out and says to the press,
I have a mother in law, I have a wife,
I have a mother, I have a daughter.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
We don't talk that way in the locker room.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
He never mentions his name. That to me was one
of the most powerful statements. And if you need any
evidence that this guy had the potential to go into
politics and be a leader, it was right then. You
just knew if Trump gets elected, there's going to be
a collision.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah. And by the way, he made a personal pivot.
Nothing would have seemed less likely than Lebron being front
and center of politics seven years earlier. No so great stuff.
Jeff Benedict, New York Times best selling author. The new
book is Lebron covering his life, childhood and Akron to
becoming the NBA's all time leading scorer. What a pleasure
(21:50):
this has been. Thank you so much for stopping by.
Thank you and continued success. He's got the Tiger Woods
book with armand Knaion, The Dynasty inside story of Robert
Crafton Brady. Go to Amazon. The book is called Lebron
and j Mack. I'm gonna take a break and come
back with the news. It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter nine Empacific.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
Hey, what's up everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
What is Up on Game?
Speaker 6 (22:25):
You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutschman,
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yup, that's right, Plexico Burus.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, TJ. Hutchman, Zada,
(22:48):
and Plexico Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcast from.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
New movie out Big George Foreman in theaters this Thursday,
exclusively get your tech that you're ready to PG thirteen
Big George Foreman should be fun. Great story. Olympic Champ,
heavyweight champ, retired, came back heavyweight champ again at forty
five j MA.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It started with Russell Westbrook, who has been tremendous for
the paper Clips in this series, even though they're down
three to one, he's leading the team in points, assists, steals,
and blocks. Kevin Durant and Chris Paul said really nice
things about Russ after Game four.
Speaker 7 (23:33):
People going to always criticize one you successful and you know,
doing your thing for this long. You know, somebody can
always find something that they don't like about you. But
Russ has been resilient his whole life. He come to work,
don't say much, just come hoop. So you know, when
he's retired, people going to really tell the truth about
(23:54):
how they feel about his game. Right now, it is
a fun thing to do, is to make a choke
out of rust. But he you know, the way he's
been playing is since he got with the Clippers, showed
everybody who he really is.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
I like.
Speaker 8 (24:05):
The only people to do that too is the people
who don't know basketball, you know what I'm saying, and
don't know what it's like to compete. I know, for me,
Russ is one of my closest friends, you know what
I'm saying. And so people to do that and talk
crazy probably wish they could be in that situation.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Well, he's always been. He is productive. He can be
situationally alarming. Sometimes he doesn't play. You know, he plays,
he plays with his hair on fire. He plays one way.
But the way he does play, I think it's always
been highly appreciated by players because it's such a grind
(24:42):
and he brings one hundred percent energy every night. You know,
he's very hot and cold. I mean he's like a golfer.
You can get, you know, an eight, and then a bogey,
a double bogie, and then you know an eagle, like
hold a whole. You don't know what you're getting game
game half to have. But his energy is the best
(25:04):
in the league. There are no off night energy wise
in his entire career. And by the way, when you
play these two games, you play sick, you play hurt.
Westbrook's energy is through the room. Yeah, he can drive
you crazy, though not all.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
That energy is positive energy. I try a lot of
his negative doing silly stuff with the shots.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
And the turnovers.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Two things can be true about Russ, and I know
the media, we're not allowed to really do this.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Now.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
Russ tries as hard as anybody in the league. We
will easily he is running around now, tries though he
don't set screens. He doesn't move off the ball. Yeah,
and he's not always a winning player. When he was
in Washington, he did this. He got him to the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
They got dusted.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
They're down three to one now.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
To the Sun. They're being competitive. He's a productive player,
But I would say with Westbrook, there's a way he
has to play. He's not an overly layered player. It
is high energy, beat you to the basket. It doesn't
have a lot of nuance. You know, he's kind of
like you hear this about quarterback sometime. Is everything fastball?
Like that was one of the knocks on Hendon Hooker.
(26:02):
I've heard this about the kid from Tennessee. Everything's a fastball,
screen pass seem everything's a fastball. He doesn't play with
a lot of layers. Whether that's true or not, that's
what the scouchers say. Westbrook doesn't have a lot of layers.
It's kind of one way, one hundred miles an hour.
But you know what, in the regular season, when people
are playing back to backs, that's highly successful.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Let's be realistic. They are missing Kawhi and Paul George,
and people will like use that to defend Russ If
Kawhi and Paul.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
George were there.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
I don't know the Russ would be doing any of this.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Don't you get to pull him off the court. He's
a non shooter, right, So I think when he went
to the Lakers, and I've never been a huge fan
of his game, I said, I like the move because
Lebron and Ad were giving you about sixty games. I'm like,
he'll give you twenty six a night. He'll give you
thirty eight minutes. And he plays his arsoft. He's always
been a high volume. He's got the ball a lot,
he shoots a lot, there's turnovers, He's just a lot.
(26:56):
But I think in this series they needed a lot
to remain competitive and he's delivered it.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
So let's spin it forward.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
What happens to Russ this offseason?
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Now, let's just say Paul George and Kawhi come back
to the Clippers.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Are the Clippers bringing Russ backs?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Because I don't know how well he fits with them.
And again, you look around the league, like what do
you want to You want to put them on Charlotte
and they're gonna win like forty games and lose in
the first round.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Like, I don't know, he can't be like the third.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Star on our team. You can, and you can make
the argument that he has elevated his value over the
last three or four games that somebody will. I mean,
he's really had what's the narrative this morning on RUSS
He's been fantastic. Now you can move him, they'll be
a taker, believe me.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Okay, Next up, the Celtics didn't talk about their win
yesterday over the Hawks.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
My guy Jason Tatum.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
I have to open by telling people I don't like
any Boston teams, but I love Jason Tatum. Tatum and
Brown each scored thirty one points, and they combined for
the team's final sixteen. Why don't I shoot out with
the Hawks? Trey Young had a good game. I'm sure
you will take a jab at him here. Some bad
news for the Hawks though. Dejhon Ta Murray made contact
with a ref after the game. I saw that very upset.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
What was he doing? Probably trying to get suspended for GID.
That was like, kid, you can't do that.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
I haven't seen an update here in the last five minutes,
but either way, they're in trouble in this year. It's
just a bad matchup. I was talking with Rick Buker before,
like during the break, I think the Hawks have something.
It was just a terrible matchup against Lay.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, well, a lot of teams are a bad matchup
because the Celtics take away a lot of your offensive options.
I mean, we're seeing what the nexts are doing to Cleveland.
I mean, Boston's a veteran, veteran successful playoff series winning defense.
So Boston discombobulates a lot of people.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Remember Trey Young went to New York a couple of
years ago in the playoffs and just eviscerated the next
Now they didn't have Brunson, but nevertheless, final story, sixer's
got to sweep without Joel Embiid.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
He missed game four.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Something happened in game three.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I posted a video on social media.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Somebody strung together all the time until Joel Embiid fell down.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
That game off a lot.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
I mean, is it acting? Is it getting pushed by
the net? Being that physical?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Is he is he like.
Speaker 9 (29:06):
Breaking down here late in the bated Guys that fall
a lot get hurt a lot, Big Tree fall hard. Yeah,
Like Doc Rivers is now saying we don't know if
he's gonna be ready for the first start of the
next round, not that I.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Just don't know.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
I would say right now, it's probably the same percentage
that's it before the game.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Probably not great so Celtics in four. But again, this
has always been Embiid's knock. He's a on his best nights,
he looks like the best player in the world, but
he's hurt a lot, and these seasons are long. Get
hurt early, you get hurt late. Like Anthony Davis right
now has been remarkable. If I told you he's gonna
(29:46):
play twenty more games and not get hurt, you're gonna
take that bet. And I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Lakers need to win tonight.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
You never know what's gonna happen. Oh you want to
get out of this series as fast as you can.
Jamack with the news.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
All right, fun show today, Jeff Benedict, the book is Lebron.
Kind of a crazy media day. We haven't talked about that.
You can go to your social media after our show.
A lot of crazy things happening in the media. Should
I just give the one of those things? I just
let somebody else cover it. Report it and it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Well, let's get back to Aaron Rodgers of the Jets.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Calgary Lakers tonight.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Lakers tonight.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
That's my lean tomorrow. So multiple drink night for you
watching the Lakers new. I have to watch it with
clear eyes, total clarity night. I had a good Saturday
night party with my wife. We had a good time.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Nice to hear.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, you know, you have to celebrate life and I
did over VODK and Ice and Rocks and it was good.
All right, we'll see you tomorrow.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
As jmac Well knows, I don't generally like sports movies,
but I love sports books. Jeff Benedict, sitting alongside us now,
is a New York Times best selling author of sixteen books,
TV and film producer, executive producer on the HBO documentary Tiger,
who he wrote with our friend Arvin Katayan. He's got
a new book out, Lebron, I just finished it up.
(00:43):
There's so much depth and reporting here, so let's start
with this. Let's go back. You really get a sense
of now, Tiger was combative when you tried to do
the book. Brady was over the top, willing to Lebron
takeaway on you writing a book. You know, when you
go a mile deep on somebody. What's been the reaction.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm certainly not antagonistic at all. I mean, none of
these players at this level have any They don't owe
any journalist anything in terms of access or cooperation, and
I didn't. I never go in expecting a player to
participate for a biography of a living person. That's typically
doesn't happen. But Lebron didn't do anything to obstruct the
(01:31):
process to make it difficult. I mean it was from
my perspective, it was a pleasure to research and write.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So the Air Movie just came out. Much of that
is the story of Michael Jordan and the shoe deal.
So Lebron signs a shoe deal early. His idol was
Michael Jordan. The losers on that were Adidas and Rebok.
So we get we got a really behind the scenes
look in the Air movie at the pitch by a
(02:00):
converse to Michael Jordan's mother and the losers in that.
So let's go, what did Lebron do? He chooses Nike,
the losers are rebuking Adidas. What did he say to them?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So here's the thing, Colin, that's so great. I love
the Air Movie.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But what's so different in Lebron's case is Sonny Vaccaro
did not have a relationship with Michael Jordan before signing him.
He built an incredible relationship with Lebron James and Gloria
James that started way before Lebron decided to go with Nike.
I think the Sonny Vacaro story with Lebron is it's
(02:36):
an incredible epic American story about about how they met.
I mean, basically, Sonny had guys that were almost like runners,
that were they were little scouts who were fined in
high school kids because they're funneling them to what was
then the greatest basketball camp in the country, Sonny's ABCD camp.
And when Lebron was a freshman, like that year after
(03:00):
Ron's freshman year, one of Sonny's guys, you know, they
meet at the Final four and he brings a VHS
tape like a video cassette to show Sonny this kid
that he's found in Akron named Lebron James. And so
all the guys in the suite are standing around the
TV watching this videotape and Sonny comes in and sees
(03:20):
these guys. He's like, what are you guys looking at?
And they go, you know, one of the guys is
this kid, you know, Lebron James. He's going to be
like the next Jason kid. Or whatever, and Sonny he's like, yeah, right,
you know. He comes over. He's squinting and looking at
the guy, looking at Lebron, and he's like, you can't
say anything. It looks like a peanut and it's just
because it was shot so poorly, you know. And they're like,
(03:41):
you got to invite him to your camp, and Sonny's like,
I can't invite him like camp. He's a ninth grader,
he's a freshman. Within two years, Lebron gets basically what
amounts to a private audition in the Bay Area. He
flies out there to play in front of Sonny because
Sonny wouldn't go to Akron. Sonny comes into the g
h they met beforehand, and like the hotel cafe, it's
(04:04):
a great meeting. When Lebron and Gloria meet Sonny and
Pam Vaccaro, there's an instant connection. They get along right away.
And then that day he plays in front of Sonny
and part way through the game, Sonny just walks out
of the gym, doesn't say anything. People are thinking, oh no,
this is a disaster. He gets in the cab, hails
(04:26):
it to the airport, and part way there his wife
is asking him like why aren't you talking saying anything?
And Sonny says, I've never seen a player like that.
I mean, that's a huge statement from the guy who
signed Michael Jordan and then signed Kobe Bryant to major
sneaker deals. It sets up this great fight between the
(04:46):
big three sneaker companies, which Nike ultimately wins. And I
love it when Sonny, knowing he's going to lose, tells
Lebron get as much money as you can.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's just it's great.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Let's go to Lebron's idol, Michael Jordan. The first time
they meet. Where is it?
Speaker 5 (05:05):
So?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
It's off season, Lebron's just finished his sophomore year of
high school. He's playing in an AAU tournament Chicago. He's
got Maverick Carter with him and one of Michael's guys.
Keep in mind, Michael's in retirement at this point, He's
not in the NBA. One of Michael's guys approaches Maverick
and Lebron during the AU tournament in between games and
invites them to basically take a ride and go to
(05:27):
see Michael's private gym hoops in Chicago. They go, they
see it. It's you know, it's cool to go in.
They see the weights that Michael uses, and the guy
says to them, you guys should come back later this
summer stay at my place. Lebron can work out of
the gym for a few days. They have to ask
their moms to get permission to go, which is telling
(05:48):
a little bit about the character of Lebron and Maverick.
What they were like is their kids and their moms
are in their lives. This is a big deal. Their
moms give them permission. They go back and later that
summer and they work out, and Lebron does at one
That chapter is called a Different Floor because at one
point Lebron is invited to get on the floor with
(06:12):
players in the NBA Jerry Stackhouse an twin walker.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
These guys are big, long men.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
They're men, and when Lebron gets on the floor, it
looks smaller, even though dimensionally it's not. And he plays
that he can't stop anybody on defense, but he can score,
and the players all see that this sophomore, a sophomore
can score against them, and he's a good passer. At
the end of that day they all leave and go home.
(06:40):
Lebron being Lebron stays behind cleans up the gym with
the guy. They're leaving to go home. The next day,
Lebron has to be in high school for his first
day of his junior year. As he and Maverick are leaving,
Michael pulls up in the red sports car and gets out,
and it's the moment. It's like the kid meets the idol,
(07:01):
the idol meets the future, and Michael invites him back inside.
He doesn't give Lebron any advice, but he gives him
a cell phone number, And to me, it's like, this
is the moment where the future in the past.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Michael doesn't give out his phone number.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
But he gives it to Lebron.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And the next day Lebron is his first day of
his junior year of high school. Think about that. He
goes to school with that number in his pocket. Why
this is fascinating is because if you fast forward about
five six months, Lebron is going to meet Grant Wall
from Sports Illustrated in the locker room at the high school.
He doesn't know Grant Wall, never seen him, never met him.
(07:42):
Grant's not a big name yet at SI. He's got
like fifteen seconds to go up to Lebron total stranger
and pitch him on cooperating with him on a feature story.
He wants to profile him in the magazine. And I
interviewed Grant about this. It's a wonderful story. He didn't
know how to do it, and he finally just he
knew that Lebron and Maverick and another friend were going
(08:04):
to Cleveland that night to watch Michael, who's now on
the Wizards because he's come out of retirement, play the Cavaliers.
He knows they have tickets and they're going, so he
asks Lebron, would you let me drive you and your
friends to the game. And Lebron's got to decide whether
to get in the car with this stranger. That chapter's
called get in the car, and he without calling his mom,
(08:28):
without calling the coach over, he has no adult that
he turns to for advice. Within thirty seconds, he decides
to trust Grant enough to get in his car and
they drive to Cleveland and they get there and that night.
By now, six months after that initial meeting at Hoops, Drim, Jim,
Michael and Lebron have a relationship that's very different. It's
(08:52):
more mature, like when Michael comes up to Lebron after
the game in the tunnel. He says to him, you
know where's your mom doing? He knows the family by now.
The reason I think in Grant Wall's jaws just dropping
like he's this kid is a junior in high school
right now, and he's carrying on with Michael Jordan like
he knows him. Because he does. And I think it's
(09:15):
phenomenal because they're now going to call him the chosen One,
the air to air Jordan in the magazine. It all
started in a small private gym in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
There's been a couple of low points for Lebron. One
I think is a little overstated the decision which they
did give millions of dollars to a boys and girls club.
But be that as it may, it was clumsy. By
the way, that's the first chapter of his book, Jeff
Benedict's book. It's a fascinating chapter. You get details you'll
not get anywhere else. I mean, just just read chapter
(09:47):
one and that's the hook you'll be You'll be hooked.
You'll read the rest of the book. But what I
want to go to is when Lebron left Cleveland, they're
burning their you know, their their their decision there burning jerseys.
So he goes to Miami. Dan Gilbert pens a really
incendiary letter, which Dan Gilbert later regrets. It's all emotion.
(10:11):
It's juvenile for a billionaire, but I want to get
past Miami. Lebron is willing and capable of putting it
all aside. Four years later, when Dan Gilbert comes a
Mia culpa to meet Lebron to get him back to Cleveland.
I always thought that was remarkable. I don't know if
I could have done a bygone to be bygones.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Grudge holder, but that go back and read that letter,
it's almost remarkable. It went public. Take me to that
decision by Lebron to meet him and then choose to
go back home.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So a couple things. First of all, that's a screed that.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Wasn't written with a pen. It was written with a blowtorch.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I mean he burned every bridge that Lebron had to
Cleveland when he wrote and said those things. And then
to compound it later that night, he actually then talked
to a reporter from the Associated Press and went even
further than what he said in his letter. So by
the time Lebron lands in Miami at two or three
(11:15):
in the morning. He knows everything that Gilbert has said
about him. I interviewed a number of NBA executives who
are still in the league today, so they didn't want
to be named or quoted in the book, but what
the consensus was they were shocked, not so much that
Gilbert felt the way he felt, but that he actually
(11:35):
voiced it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That was the stunning thing because Lebron still had so
long to go in his career, like he's so he's
twenty five at that point.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
In the East, Yes, you're gonna have to go through Lebron.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It was just remarkable. And then four years later, when
Lebron decides to go back, by now his inner circle Maverick,
rich Paul, these guys are a lot more sophisticated and
grown up than they were even.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Just four years earlier. They've learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Rich Paul does an incredible job here that he doesn't
really get any credit for, but he was a navigator
in this situation. And to Lebron's credit, everyone around him
doesn't want him to go back to Cleveland, and they
don't really understand why he's willing to go back. Maverick
(12:27):
wasn't excited about it, and Lebron is this is where
I think you see the Lebron that's now a fully
formed man. And I don't I mean that in multiple ways, yes,
as a player, but also as an adult, as a businessman,
as a person who's capable of looking at the long
(12:49):
game and the long haul, which so few athletes really
are able to do in the moment. Lebron has always
had a long term view of his career and the
decisions he makes, The investment decisions he made with Warren
Buffett's guidance in the beginning, were long picture decisions, and
he does it here. And when he agrees to pen
(13:12):
an essay with Lee Jenkins from Sports Illustrated that says,
who am I to hold a grudge? That single sentence
You almost don't need to read the rest of that essay,
even though it's a fantastic essay, well penned, well thought out.
But that single sentence that Lebron put his name to
(13:34):
is you just go, Okay. The level of maturity that
you're seeing here is just different. There isn't maturity like
it in the NBA. Think about Pat Riley, who's finding
out through a phone call that Lebron's not coming back.
Riley's furious. I mean, this isn't good news. It's like
(13:56):
we were going to win a lot more championships. They
were primed to do it. They were built to do it.
Riley would have spent even more money to get more
role players. They could have just kept rolling. And it
didn't make sense to Riley or anybody else why Lebron
was doing this. He obviously wasn't motivated in that moment
to catch Michael. He was driven by something else. Because
(14:18):
if he just wanted to catch Michael and get six rings,
we'll just stay in Miami. That's the easy path. It's
all there. You're talking about going back to Cleveland a
team that stinks. I'm not saying they were kind of good.
They stunk. This is not a good team.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Kyrie Irving was viewed as a bust. They wouldn't stay healthy.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, he's going back there, But here was the difference.
Now that he's won in Miami. This is like Tom
Brady in two thousand and seven, after he's won three
Super Bowls? Why does Randy Moss go to New England?
He goes to play with Tom and Lebron does know
when he goes to Cleveland, there's guys like Kevin Love
(14:55):
who would never go to Cleveland, but he'd go to
play with Lebron. He is a magnet for talent. He
can get guys to go there, and he can take
a guy like Kyrie Irving and he can now be
the statesman, the teacher, the guy with the young stars
under his wing, and he does all those things.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I've always found it remarkable that if you're in the
public spotlight, you could be a politician, you could be
a talk show host, you could be a basketball player.
You're gonna step in it, you know. Lebron, you know,
I didn't take much of it his comments on China.
You know, for conservatives, that's just you know, red meat.
They're going to go after that. But by and large,
(15:44):
if you look at Lebron's childhood, he has been It's
really a remarkable American story that it's almost like Lebron
didn't have the cohesive family, so he is so loyal
to it? Are are What is it about his personality
(16:05):
that he doesn't seem there's no fomo, there's no fear
of missing out with him. It's I mean, it's it's
kind of unique, right.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I think so?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And when you know when I was when I was
crafting the early chapters as a narrative, not not later
when he's in the NBA. But my favorite part of
the whole book is the origin story. It's it's writing
the origin story because I kept trying to think of
a comparison a sports figure, who do I compare him to?
And I couldn't come up with anybody. The person I
(16:37):
thought of the most was actually Alexander Hamilton, you know,
an orphan an immigrant who comes to America and ends
up being George Washington's right hand man.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Like that is.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
So sounds so fictional, so made up, so unbelievable, But
that's how Lebron's origin story is. I'm not suggesting that
being the greatest basketball player in the world is on
par with being a founding father.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I'm saying that if you look at the odds of
Lebron James becoming one of the most respected successful.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Known humans on Earth. If you start where he started,
that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
And to maintain it with very few missteps virtually impossible.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, virtually impossible. And I the worst thing that people
say about him is the way, not that he went
to Miami, but the way he announced it. Right, But
you know the benefit of time, if you step back
from that, it's now been thirteen years. As a biographer,
I look at that as actually, there was a lot
of smart things that happened there. This is where he
(17:47):
crosses over and really becomes interesting to the whole world.
Prior to that, he was a great basketball player that
everyone who follows basketball was interested in. After that, the
whole world was interested in this guy.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Also, after that, people started taking sides, yes pro or
anti Lebron. And I've said this before. You know, we
romanticize jfk or Reagan. How would they have dealt with
social media? Everybody great is now polarizing. Yes, there is
no non polarizing stars. It doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
No, but Lebron made a decision, a conscious decision that
Michael never made and Kobe didn't make, which is he
decided to step into the political arena and to me,
this is again, as a biographer, a lot more interesting
than basketball is that for the first seven years of
(18:45):
his career as a cavalier, he was actually a lot
like Michael in the sense that he did not step
over the line into the political sphere. Basketball and shoes
and fam Yeah, he stayed in the safe space when
he went to the Beijing Olympics, and he was under
tremendous scrutiny. Steven Spielberg and Lebron James were the two
targets of the political activism campaigns to get them to
(19:08):
speak out against China. Spielberg eventually stepped away. He was
supposed to choreograph the opening ceremonies. The pressure got too much,
he left. Lebron didn't leave, and then he got to
Beijing and he wouldn't speak out. Fast forward just a
couple months. Barack Obama's running for president. It's the fall
of two thousand and eight, and Jay Z is doing
(19:30):
three benefit concerts for Barack Obama, and the last ones
in Cleveland, and Lebron decides to come and he gets
up on stage at the queue, a full house, and
he tells everybody how important it is.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Uncle's aunts, moms, you.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Gotta vote, and he tells the arena who he's voting for,
Barack Obama, And he also made a political contribution to
his campaign, first time he'd ever done those things. And
once Obama's in the White House for eight years, Lebron
is visiting the White House, not just when they win championships.
He builds a relationship with Barack Obama. He learns from
(20:08):
him from modeling, and during those eight years you see
Lebron really grow fast in being able to deal with
things like gun violence, racism. He is taking steps that
are so affirmative that by the time Donald Trump comes
around in twenty sixteen, he is a completely different person,
(20:29):
way more. He's just so smart about how to deal
with things. So when Trump is caught on tape saying
these incredibly hideous things about women and how he treats
him and what he gets away with the things I
can't even repeat on the air, and that tape gets
released right before his debate with Hillary Clinton, and Trump
tries to dismiss it by saying, oh, that's just locker
(20:51):
room talk.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
That was his quote, locker room talk.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Lebron is now the most visible athlete in the world,
and he comes right out and says to the press,
I have a mother in law, I have a wife,
I have a mother, I have a daughter.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
We don't talk that way in the locker room.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
He never mentions his name. That to me was one
of the most powerful statements. And if you need any
evidence that this guy had the potential to go into
politics and be a leader, it was right then. You
just knew if Trump gets elected, there's going to be
a collision.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah. And by the way, he made a personal pivot.
Nothing would have seemed less likely than Lebron being front
and center of politics seven years earlier. No so great stuff.
Jeff Benedict, New York Times best selling author. The new
book is Lebron covering his life, childhood and Akron to
becoming the NBA's all time leading scorer. What a pleasure
(21:50):
this has been. Thank you so much for stopping by.
Thank you and continued success. He's got the Tiger Woods
book with armand Knaion, The Dynasty inside story of Robert
Crafton Brady. Go to Amazon. The book is called Lebron
and j Mack. I'm gonna take a break and come
back with the news. It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter nine Empacific.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
Hey, what's up everybody? It's me three time pro bowler
LeVar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce
a podcast called Up on Game?
Speaker 4 (22:24):
What is Up on Game?
Speaker 6 (22:25):
You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler TJ. Hutschman,
Zada and Super Bowl champion. Yup, that's right, Plexico Burus.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with Me LeVar Arrington, TJ. Hutchman, Zada,
(22:48):
and Plexico Burrs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcast from.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
New movie out Big George Foreman in theaters this Thursday,
exclusively get your tech that you're ready to PG thirteen
Big George Foreman should be fun. Great story. Olympic Champ,
heavyweight champ, retired, came back heavyweight champ again at forty
five j MA.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
This is the Herdline News.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
It started with Russell Westbrook, who has been tremendous for
the paper Clips in this series, even though they're down
three to one, he's leading the team in points, assists, steals,
and blocks. Kevin Durant and Chris Paul said really nice
things about Russ after Game four.
Speaker 7 (23:33):
People going to always criticize one you successful and you know,
doing your thing for this long. You know, somebody can
always find something that they don't like about you. But
Russ has been resilient his whole life. He come to work,
don't say much, just come hoop. So you know, when
he's retired, people going to really tell the truth about
(23:54):
how they feel about his game. Right now, it is
a fun thing to do, is to make a choke
out of rust. But he you know, the way he's
been playing is since he got with the Clippers, showed
everybody who he really is.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
I like.
Speaker 8 (24:05):
The only people to do that too is the people
who don't know basketball, you know what I'm saying, and
don't know what it's like to compete. I know, for me,
Russ is one of my closest friends, you know what
I'm saying. And so people to do that and talk
crazy probably wish they could be in that situation.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Well, he's always been. He is productive. He can be
situationally alarming. Sometimes he doesn't play. You know, he plays,
he plays with his hair on fire. He plays one way.
But the way he does play, I think it's always
been highly appreciated by players because it's such a grind
(24:42):
and he brings one hundred percent energy every night. You know,
he's very hot and cold. I mean he's like a golfer.
You can get, you know, an eight, and then a bogey,
a double bogie, and then you know an eagle, like
hold a whole. You don't know what you're getting game
game half to have. But his energy is the best
(25:04):
in the league. There are no off night energy wise
in his entire career. And by the way, when you
play these two games, you play sick, you play hurt.
Westbrook's energy is through the room. Yeah, he can drive
you crazy, though not all.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
That energy is positive energy. I try a lot of
his negative doing silly stuff with the shots.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
And the turnovers.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Two things can be true about Russ, and I know
the media, we're not allowed to really do this.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Now.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
Russ tries as hard as anybody in the league. We
will easily he is running around now, tries though he
don't set screens. He doesn't move off the ball. Yeah,
and he's not always a winning player. When he was
in Washington, he did this. He got him to the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
They got dusted.
Speaker 5 (25:40):
They're down three to one now.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
To the Sun. They're being competitive. He's a productive player,
But I would say with Westbrook, there's a way he
has to play. He's not an overly layered player. It
is high energy, beat you to the basket. It doesn't
have a lot of nuance. You know, he's kind of
like you hear this about quarterback sometime. Is everything fastball?
Like that was one of the knocks on Hendon Hooker.
(26:02):
I've heard this about the kid from Tennessee. Everything's a fastball,
screen pass seem everything's a fastball. He doesn't play with
a lot of layers. Whether that's true or not, that's
what the scouchers say. Westbrook doesn't have a lot of layers.
It's kind of one way, one hundred miles an hour.
But you know what, in the regular season, when people
are playing back to backs, that's highly successful.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
Let's be realistic. They are missing Kawhi and Paul George,
and people will like use that to defend Russ If
Kawhi and Paul.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
George were there.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
I don't know the Russ would be doing any of this.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Don't you get to pull him off the court. He's
a non shooter, right, So I think when he went
to the Lakers, and I've never been a huge fan
of his game, I said, I like the move because
Lebron and Ad were giving you about sixty games. I'm like,
he'll give you twenty six a night. He'll give you
thirty eight minutes. And he plays his arsoft. He's always
been a high volume. He's got the ball a lot,
he shoots a lot, there's turnovers, He's just a lot.
(26:56):
But I think in this series they needed a lot
to remain competitive and he's delivered it.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
So let's spin it forward.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
What happens to Russ this offseason?
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Now, let's just say Paul George and Kawhi come back
to the Clippers.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Are the Clippers bringing Russ backs?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Because I don't know how well he fits with them.
And again, you look around the league, like what do
you want to You want to put them on Charlotte
and they're gonna win like forty games and lose in
the first round.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Like, I don't know, he can't be like the third.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Star on our team. You can, and you can make
the argument that he has elevated his value over the
last three or four games that somebody will. I mean,
he's really had what's the narrative this morning on RUSS
He's been fantastic. Now you can move him, they'll be
a taker, believe me.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Okay, Next up, the Celtics didn't talk about their win
yesterday over the Hawks.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
My guy Jason Tatum.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
I have to open by telling people I don't like
any Boston teams, but I love Jason Tatum. Tatum and
Brown each scored thirty one points, and they combined for
the team's final sixteen. Why don't I shoot out with
the Hawks? Trey Young had a good game. I'm sure
you will take a jab at him here. Some bad
news for the Hawks though. Dejhon Ta Murray made contact
with a ref after the game. I saw that very upset.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
What was he doing? Probably trying to get suspended for GID.
That was like, kid, you can't do that.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
I haven't seen an update here in the last five minutes,
but either way, they're in trouble in this year. It's
just a bad matchup. I was talking with Rick Buker before,
like during the break, I think the Hawks have something.
It was just a terrible matchup against Lay.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, well, a lot of teams are a bad matchup
because the Celtics take away a lot of your offensive options.
I mean, we're seeing what the nexts are doing to Cleveland.
I mean, Boston's a veteran, veteran successful playoff series winning defense.
So Boston discombobulates a lot of people.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Remember Trey Young went to New York a couple of
years ago in the playoffs and just eviscerated the next
Now they didn't have Brunson, but nevertheless, final story, sixer's
got to sweep without Joel Embiid.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
He missed game four.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Something happened in game three.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I posted a video on social media.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
Somebody strung together all the time until Joel Embiid fell down.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
That game off a lot.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
I mean, is it acting? Is it getting pushed by
the net? Being that physical?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Is he is he like.
Speaker 9 (29:06):
Breaking down here late in the bated Guys that fall
a lot get hurt a lot, Big Tree fall hard. Yeah,
Like Doc Rivers is now saying we don't know if
he's gonna be ready for the first start of the
next round, not that I.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Just don't know.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
I would say right now, it's probably the same percentage
that's it before the game.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Probably not great so Celtics in four. But again, this
has always been Embiid's knock. He's a on his best nights,
he looks like the best player in the world, but
he's hurt a lot, and these seasons are long. Get
hurt early, you get hurt late. Like Anthony Davis right
now has been remarkable. If I told you he's gonna
(29:46):
play twenty more games and not get hurt, you're gonna
take that bet. And I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Lakers need to win tonight.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
You never know what's gonna happen. Oh you want to
get out of this series as fast as you can.
Jamack with the news.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line News.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
All right, fun show today, Jeff Benedict, the book is Lebron.
Kind of a crazy media day. We haven't talked about that.
You can go to your social media after our show.
A lot of crazy things happening in the media. Should
I just give the one of those things? I just
let somebody else cover it. Report it and it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Well, let's get back to Aaron Rodgers of the Jets.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Calgary Lakers tonight.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Lakers tonight.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
That's my lean tomorrow. So multiple drink night for you
watching the Lakers new. I have to watch it with
clear eyes, total clarity night. I had a good Saturday
night party with my wife. We had a good time.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Nice to hear.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, you know, you have to celebrate life and I
did over VODK and Ice and Rocks and it was good.
All right, we'll see you tomorrow.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com