Mike Sando from the Athletic talks to Colin about his QB tier list, how Shedeur Sanders looked in his first game for the Browns, Patrick Mahomes last season, and more
Thoughts on Matt Stafford's back injury and what the Rams will probably do in the future
Colin discusses which NFL teams would interest Texas QB Arch Manning to jump to the NFL
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, he's been covering the NFL for twenty eight years,
and he drops his quarterback tears every year in August
before he goes on Vaca.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And it's fascinating for us in August.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
This is what fifty gms and assistant gms and executives.
And I know everybody doesn't like anonymous quotes. I've been
doing this thirty years. You get better quotes from their
anonymous I mean, let's be honest. If your best friend
or wife drive you crazy, sometimes you tell a buddy
or a friend what you wouldn't tell your best friend
of your wife. Like people anonymously, I have a little
more courage and can air things out. And Mike Sandos
(01:03):
the recipient of many of those juicy tidbits of information.
He know Jones, senior NFL writer at the athletic. So
I was, I'll tell you this the one that really
jumped out to me, and I you know, I know,
I'm a little high on my sauce here because I
love I predicted Bo Nicks would go to the Broncos,
(01:24):
and I watched him play live twice and I loved
him when I watched him play Utah and Washington, so
that he did well, you know, it's a confirmation bias.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
But he received less two tier.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Votes than caliber Drake May So is that telling me
that GM's are telling you we love Sean Payton or
there are still people that think he's over achieving and
he has a low ceiling con.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Like it's like one fewer Tier two vote than those guys.
I've got no worry about how anyone's seen him. I
think they really like him. And one of the great
quotes I put in there was, hey, the order of
this class is not set. Jayden Dangeles looks great, but
this is going to be a referendum in the quarterback
developing abilities of Cliff Kingsbury and Sean Payton as much
(02:09):
as anything. So I think that's a very bold endorsement
of Bo Nicks. And for these guys that have only
played a year, sometimes they get Tier four votes. Not
enough information is one of the sort of bailouts for that.
So you got some people who haven't seen him, or
didn't see them enough, or just want to see more.
I think there's lots of optimism on bo Nicks, and
like I said, even some who haven't set in stone
(02:32):
what the order of this class is going to be,
and they're allowing for the fact that maybe bo Nix
in a year is the one at the top.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So the quotes about Caleb Williams, Holy, Whenever I see alarming,
you know, all I can think of is sirens going off.
Somebody pulled the fire extinguisher in high school alarming.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Were you alarmed when you got those?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Were you surprised at how negative the Caleb william discussion.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Was a little bit, you know, I have sensed some
of it from Ben Johnson in his public comments this offseasons,
talking about we're not a poem's up type of team.
Body language. He even made a reference was a little
arcane earlier in the offseason about something statistically about you know,
EPA or something, And the bells went off in my
mind because EPA counts sacks well who took a lot
(03:21):
of sacks. To me, that was I was reading into that, probably,
but I felt like he's put that team in, Caleb
on alert, He's got the juice there, and it's going
to be very interesting to see how it comes together.
In light of the fact that so many of the
people I talked to said, hey, Kat Williams has Tier
one talent, it's going to be good for him with
Ben Johnson, but man, his ability to process the game quickly,
(03:44):
that was not there, and that was alarming.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, so I made a joke.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Jalen Hurts doesn't tend to do well in these and
my take has been they had a buy in Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
After the buye, the staff said we'd be.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Better if you threw less, And I've joked that if
my bosses came to me and said, Colin, we love
the show, but if you could talk last, it'd be
way better. Probably some indictment on my verbal ability. So
that's what I look at Jalen is when you ask
him to throw thirty thirty five times, he's not the
same guy. So when I see eight, nine, ten, I
(04:21):
think he's the best podium quarterback, the most mature. I
think the push push is historically unique. I don't love
him from the pocket. What kind of quotes do you
get for our audience that hasn't read this about him?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Funny ones. Everyone was like apologizing for how low they
had him. They love Jalen Hurts, they love what he's
all about. They think he's good, they think he's perfect
for him, but you're right. They don't think he can
do it as a volume passer, and they think he
probably benefits as much or more from what's around him
and the context handing en off. And then if you
put him in a different system or on a different team,
(04:56):
that he may sink in this whereas hey maybe it
just and Herbert. If you put him in a different system,
maybe he would take off. Or some of these Heather
guys that are that are even higher than that in
Tier one would do better as stars. When you play Hurts,
you have to have a plan. But you're not like,
oh my god, we're playing Hurts right, You're you're playing
that whole system, that whole team.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Hi, this is Jay.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
I'm the producer of the Pauli and Toni Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they asked you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on sports, imagicable. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camps.
Speaker 6 (05:40):
What the hell are you doing our studio get him, Pauli,
Ignore that fool. Listen to the Pauline Tony Fusco Show
on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He's still moving.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I'll get to Jad and Daniels eventually. The quarterback that
I think is really good is Jordan Love. So I
had joke for years I had more video of Bigfoot
than Jordan Love for three years at practice, like they
wouldn't release video.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Then I saw him and I was like, oh, this
is rough.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Matt Leflure criticized him at a press conference.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Then I saw him.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I'm like, oh, this kid's got a whip, this is
an arm. This kid is something. And then last year
he's banged up, but he kind of regresses. So where
are we according to your fifty GMS assistant gams?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Where are we on Jordan Love?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Well, he's low tier two. The only guy lower in
tier two is brock Pirty. I think with a feeling
that he has the talent to ascend higher in tier two.
But I thought the quotes on him were fascinating all
over the place. One guy said, Hey, I think that
Matt Lafleur is actually holding him back by you know,
running his offense and should be tatered around him. And
another one was like, hey, this guy, Jordan Love is
(06:52):
propped up by the big skill players around him. And
I think another one was, you know, talking about just
you know that he's really hasn't taken that next step
and you wonder why, and it seems odd that he
throws the ball deep so much, like was this part
of the plan or is he a throwback to guys
who wing it down the field? Some that plays into
(07:13):
the interceptions. I just felt that wasn't focused. The talk
around him wasn't as focused. I don't have as good
of a field of direction.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, you know what, I'm going to defend him.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Them drafting a receiver in the first round tells you
that they don't trust their group of receivers. There's some
health issues, some drop issues, some immaturity issues. And by
going after a receiver from Texas who I like that
And I think Green Bay historically drafts pretty smart. They do,
they draft and develop. I think it kind of spoke
volumes about it's not a Jordan issue, it's you know what,
(07:46):
these receivers, we got some we got some issues here.
So I'm on the Jordan love bandwagon. You've been doing
this twelve years. Is there a common thread or is
every year just a basket of surprises for you?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
It's really not surprising as I do it, and I'm
more interested in what surprises the public. So like the
first conversation I had yesterday morning, you know, was if
someone was all over me about Jalen Hurts and he
wasn't higher. I didn't see that coming at all. Maybe
I should have, but you just get you're kind of
so on the inside talking to people for so long
that it all sort of makes sense. And then there's
(08:22):
some outlier votes, you know, among them. You know, I
think there's debate over why would Josh Ellen or Lamar
Jason get any Tier two votes some things like that,
But overall, I think it really makes a lot of sense.
It feels right to me.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
When you do talk about the great ones. Mahomes did
not have a great year. He was tremendous as the
team was in those one score games where I think
they were like eleven and zero or something, and a
lot of that's just Andy's coaching. Mahomes clutch play. I mean,
they're just an expirit like the Patriots in Foxboro during
Brady Man, if it was close, you just had a
(08:56):
feeling l way they're going to win certain games when
you would people talk about Mahomes because statistically he doesn't
blow you away.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
He's not as big as Alan, He's not as electric
running as Jaden or Lamar. What do they say about Mahomes?
Is he still viewed as sort of it?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah? Yes. One of the great quotes in there was
like he sort of has the Brady seat right now,
right because of his pedigree, because of his winning, because
of he's always in the AFC Championship Game every year.
I think for him to be perceived as falling off,
it's going to take more than his stats not being glittering,
because everyone knows how good he is, and he finishes
those games. I think it's going to take, like, you know,
(09:38):
an early early playoff ecs that with mediocre stats, Well,
Josh Allen is the undisputed MVP and goes to the
super Bowl. Right, there's no one really knocking Mahomes off
that perch until they don't have the team's success, which
he's driving a lot. With those end of game heroics.
It just feels a little less sustainable, doesn't. He can't
go eleven and zero in one score games forever. It
just doesn't happen. So is this the that Denver beats him?
(10:01):
You know, Denver wins the division and they don't miss
the playoffs, but they're one and done. It hasn't happened yet.
I think if it does, we'll see the conversation shift
a little.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
One of the players I'm constantly supporting and I get
more and more pushback is Justin Herbert. And my take is, well,
he got two coordinators as head coaches and it didn't work.
And frankly, until Hardball got there, I didn't. I mean,
Rashaun Slater worked, but I didn't, you know, Joe alt
short up what was always a Okay, at best o line,
(10:33):
what do you hear? It's anytime it's anonymous, people are
more honest.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I love Herbert's size, his toughness. What do people say though,
you kind of.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Hey, is something missing because they haven't had more success
in the postseason in some of those close games. I
think that's been part of it. One of the interesting
ones from I think it was a defensive coordinator said, hey,
he's really good. He can do everything, but he's a
click slower than those the elite guys just in terms
of his I don't know if it was the processing
(11:05):
or just the quickness of playing the game. So I
think he's right where he probably belongs, top of tier two,
the talent to go to tier one, But another question
is can you go to You're gonna go to tier one?
In that offense, one of the guys was like, hey,
don't they have like eighteen running backs on their team?
You know, do they even want to have that type
of season? So he doesn't have the team success that
Mahomes has. He can't have Mahomes type stats and people
(11:28):
say you're tier one anyway. He almost needs the stats
in the absence of the team's success. To get into
that top group.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and for the record, Mike, Mike Sander joining us
for our radio audience. Harbaught, you can go Stanford to
the Niners, to Michigan. He's never built his team around
wide receivers. I mean Michigan won and Natty with one
NFL receiver. The Niners had Michael Crabtree. You can't name
the Stanford wide receivers. So he's not really I mean,
he passed on a receiver, Brian Thomas. He loved to
(11:57):
get Joe Olt. That's just who he is. He is
a He's never going to be a guy that builds
sideline in.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
And it's about the team. And I'm I'm fine with
that for your team. I think history has shown that,
you know, history has shown that the John Harbaughs and
Mike Tomlins and Pete Carroll's and Bill Belichick's value the team.
There's always going to be people saying you should let
Russ cook or let this guy throw, but they have
a way of putting together a team. It's about the team,
(12:25):
not about the player. And so you don't get a
spectacular season sometimes from the quarterback, whereas we see Aaron
Rodgers and Drew brees with offensive coaches have incredible seasons,
but you know, only one Super Bowl win, right, because
maybe it got to be a little bit too much
about the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And finally, Jayden Daniels, I had said a couple times
on the show today, I love the kid, but he
beat one playoff team and that was the Eagles when
Kenny Pickett played most of the game. He got a
very very Dan Snyders out of town. It wasn't toxic.
The cow Boys weren't very good. The Giants were awful.
(13:03):
You start looking at the times he played a Baker,
a Lamar, a Jalen Hurts. He didn't win those shootouts.
Was there any pushback at all on Jade and Daniels that, Hey, listen,
it was a pretty comfortable year one.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I need to have you as one of the voters
next year. That was pretty good, pretty good pushback on Jaden.
I didn't get pushed back that hard on me. You know,
he did beat Burrow early in the year, right with
that time ball down the sideline. I thought that was good.
You know, I think for him it's rare to get
to the championship game with the rookie quarterback and a
bottom ten defense in a place where, yes, the culture
was better, but they haven't done anything there, so he
(13:37):
clearly drove it. I think everyone was very impressed with
his poise, no questions about his processing, and oh, by
the way, he's super elusive. I think the question probably
is more about, you know, he got banged up a
little bit with the ribs. He's not the thickest guy.
Is he gonna you know, is he gonna wear down
or get banged up? But I didn't see any red flags.
(13:58):
I sort of here in your red flags. I look
at it this way though. Stroud and Herbert are the
two other guys since I've been doing this that finished
almost as high as him, and their debuts in quarterback
tears and in Herbert's case kind of plateau. He's good
but hasn't really become the Tier one guy. And then
Stroud in his second year, you know, his number of
(14:20):
Tier one votes went from twelve to one. So that's
why he's not in Tier one. Jayden Daniels, they want
to see it again against defensive coordinators that are going
to be ready, but I don't necessarily. Those are some
interesting things you brought up, but I don't know that
they're red flags, right, They're not like fatal flaws. They're
just trying to keep in mind that, Hey, if they
go nine and eight and he, you know, isn't in
the MVP conversation, that may be realistic.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I don't think, by the way, I think he's special,
so I don't think he's going to go back.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
And I would even defend CJ. Stroud.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
All his receivers got hurt. In Tunzel had a so
so year. So Mike Sando. It's the athletic covering the
NFL for twenty eight years. You can spend several hours
on it. It's just a lot of fun. It's a
great read. Go on vacation with your fam. It's great
seeing you, Mike.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
I appreciate I would love you, but I had my
vacation already. We we talked in the break. My vacation is
done before I do, so I take a vacation now.
I think they might move on. They might want less
of sand up like you were talking about, less of
loss of colin. So, yeah, I appreciate it. I'm gonna
see what I can do on that vacation though. Yeah, Camp,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I think a pre and a post tier vacation is
very reasonable for all the publicity.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
The athletic next contract that's going in. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, thanks, thanks Mike, love I love it so much,
love it. It was such a gift. Monday on the train
to work, What a gift.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Here is j Mack with the news.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
Turn.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
This is the Herdline news.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
All right, Colin, Let's start with a couple of our teammates.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Here a Fox.
Speaker 8 (15:48):
Tom Brady sat down with Shoel Klatt recently and talked
to you about quarterbacks in the game of football today
that remind him of himself.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Brady only named one guy.
Speaker 9 (16:00):
It's always that line about who wants to win versus
who's willing to do whatever it takes to win.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Because everyone wants to win. Everyone wants to win.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
But what are the habits in the daily habits and
the actionable things you need to do every day to
put your team in a position to win. So Patrick
mahomes Me is the one that does that the most
offensure because who he is, I mean obviously his physical talent,
how he understands what he needs to do offensively, and
he brings a consistent winning attitude to work every single day,
(16:32):
in the biggest moments, you can depend on him the most.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's reasonable. I think
in the biggest moments it feels different. And you know,
so much of quarterbacking is those critical moments. I've said
this before. Michael Jordan had bad games in the finals,
a couple against the Jazz and the Sonics, and he
had bad games and bad shots. But generally in the
(16:58):
biggest moments, took over or Shaq Kobe, you know, Steph
takes over. Is Mahomes has bad halves. Mahomes has bad games,
but on third down and four in the red zone
with forty eight seconds left, that's where he's got the
Brady MJ. L Way thing. He just is consistently a
(17:21):
notch better. And I think, yeah, it's he's not always pretty.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
He's not he's had go go.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Last year he had eight or nine games or halves
he just wasn't dialed in. But it was usually the
first half or a game they won anyway, when he
had to have a big drive. There is a reality
of he just clicks. I mean, I largely agree. I
would put a guy like Jalen Hurts in that category.
(17:47):
I would put Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
The only problem is two of the three.
Speaker 8 (17:51):
Guys having won, so it's tough to like even mention
them in the same sentence as Brady. But yeah, I
largely like that, and listen, I may bask the Chiefs
a lot, but let's be real.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Mahomes is legendary.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
That's obvious.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Next Joy Colin, let's uh, Let's go back to Caleb
Williams for a moment. He's had a rough preseason, shoppy
under his new head coach. Well former Dolphin Tarron Armstead
watched joint practices between the Bears and Dolphins and had
some takeaways explaining why Williams has been benched.
Speaker 7 (18:22):
Caleb's process playing that quarterback position has to improve fast,
and pretty fast. In my opinion, on a consistent basis,
Caleb was not able to.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Recognize where he was in danger.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
He wasn't feeling pressure, he wasn't feeling blitzes, he wasn't
seeing blitzes and threats pre sing out uh. Anthony Weaver,
the Dolphins defensive coordinator, was able to send guys from
from all different spots on the field, and man, a
lot of those got home.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
A lot of those would have been sacks.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, that that's pretty alarming. I mean, and that's what
we're hearing. It's the process thing. Nobody's saying arm movement,
nobody's and the processing thing. You know, you and I
have said this before. He had a lot of college starts.
He had him in Oklahoma, he had a USC So
it's not like a lack of stars. Anthony Richardson hasn't
(19:18):
played enough football, a lot of starts, two programs, good
offensive coach, I mean, Lincoln Riley's above average college offensive coach.
So there's a lot of things here like it should work,
a lot of starts, good offensive coaches, strong, big arm all.
The reason we're all flummixed by it is we can't
(19:39):
see the processing. Everything you see, you're like, oh, that's good.
I mean Greg co SEL's like, oh yeah, he throws
an unbelievable Josh Allen like powerball. So the processing, though,
is a lack of film study, is it? He doesn't
feel comfortable in the pocket like I think last year
we thought that the Bears online was young, it would upgrade.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
It regressed badly.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
So I think some of it is Ben Johnson just
wants the ball out faster, just get rid of the ball,
eliminate sacks. You know, It's like even Belichick said about Brady,
his second best strength was he got the ball out
of his hands.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
He didn't get hit.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And you can always make more yards handing the ball
or passing the ball to somebody else than you can
do yourself. So I think a lot of what Ben
Johnson's trying to do. First read, second read, no hero ball,
and some of Caleb's habits at USC at the end
and last year are bad habits.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Getting those that's going to be difficult.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
Final story, Colin, is this guy named Travis Kelsey who
you're obviously familiar with. He is an international superstar at
this point. Now, he has admitted that his last two
seasons haven't been up to his standards because he was
excited to venture into a new world of acting and
being an entertainer.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So he's admitting it.
Speaker 8 (20:53):
He later added that his only goal is to win
a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Also, this was at in.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
A GQ cover story.
Speaker 8 (21:00):
Colin GQ all right yesterday Obviously, he talked about Taylor
Swift coming on his podcast.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
To promote a new album.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Okay, look at Travis.
Speaker 8 (21:12):
There look at his outfit, Colin, I mean, really, GQ.
Travis Kelcey looks like a guy from the Stone Ages.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Well man, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Way again, he's not a quarterback. I thought he was
going to retire. I'm I'm gonna give him a little
pass for one year dating the world's most famous pop
star as a tight end. As they drafted another tight
end a couple years ago, Noah Gray to reduce his role.
Was he good when it mattered in the third down,
(21:45):
the fourth down, the big games?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
By and large.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yes, he's also had his self admission as ten surgeries,
so I'm surprised he came back to play so.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Again at the end of your car.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You know, Brady started doing commercials after he beat at
Land in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Even Tom's like, I'm in commercials.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
If you're at the end of a Hall of Fame career,
you have your money, your fame, your legacy, and multiple
rings in which you have been the number one receiver.
I'm gonna give you a year that you got a
little sidetracked with the world's biggest pop star.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And I still thought he was good last year.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
He just he had now admits sometimes you get distracted
I mean, can.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
You just quantify good?
Speaker 8 (22:24):
Last year it was by almost every metric, the worst
season of his career, of his career, right worst year
of his saying, those terrible numbers for his career are
still good for an average title.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Kyle Pitts would kill for the like that kind of
NAT's try.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I get again, if everybody, if life is circumstantial, if
in any industry, you had ten to twelve years where
you're remember he was a middle of draft pick. If
you were great, and then let's say you went through
a divorce, or you went through a tragedy in your family,
or you were just distracted. You you you're going through
(23:00):
a tough time. You get one out of twelve years,
you're not quite buttoned up. He's been an unbelievable blocking,
catching leader.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
There's everything about him I love. So, I mean, that's
an interesting point. Hey, he's had a great run.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Let's give me in.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
So if my wife kicks me to the curb and
I start dating Sydney Sweeney and I start showing up
there a little sauce for the news, would you be like, hey,
let's get Jamaka pass.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
He's been with a no no, I want about four
more years of that, by the way, By the way,
he was still named a Pro Bowler. He went to
his third rate Super Bowl, the worst season of his career.
Here are the numbers top five and receiving among tight
ends at his age. He's thirty six, so again, by
(23:46):
his standards, worst of his career, he was still a
top five tight end. He was still the number one
target in big games. And by the way, because their
receiving crew is a mess the last two years, he
draws more doubles like it was different when Tyreek Hill
was getting a like he has become like the de
facto third down guy and the run game is not
as good as you want.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
You admit it, though, he.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Was like a fringe top five tight end. And he's
getting older and he's doing GQ four, you would.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Be enjoying life.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
Now, let's say this season he falls to he's a.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Top twelve tight end, then he should retire.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Interesting tight ends block he's old, he's had ten surgeries.
He was third in receptions among tight ends. That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Where was he in the Super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Didn't have a great super Bowl, The team did not
have a great Super Bowl.
Speaker 8 (24:33):
The championship game, what are you doing, Allen.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I don't remember that on Foggy I just know they won.
J Mack, he did lead the Chiefs in receiving yards.
That's another one. The stay Well it's something Jmack with
the news.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line news.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I mean again, you get into these Lebron and Brady
where they don't have down years. But it's just not
the way it just not the way it mostly works people.
You know, even a great quarterback, you change coordinators, you'll
lose your left tackle, you get hit more. I mean,
I look at Kelsey. Is when you're that good for
(25:14):
that long at that physical a position, and then you
start dating the world's most famous pop star, you're gonna
get a little distracted. It's he's a great looking guy
with one hundred and fifty million net worth. And for
the record, Lebron James, as great as he is, his
(25:38):
average is fallen for straight ears. He's just he has spurts.
Travis Kelsey has spurts, he has games, he has halves,
he has moments. But you know these it's father time
and I think I thought he would retire. I think
he's got one more year then he'll retire. That seems
(25:59):
fitting next to Herd.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
and noone Easter, not a Empacific.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
So a team that we know is good.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Don't forget that the Rams took the Philadelphia Eagles to
the last series of the game in a snowstorm. For
an LA team, Rams are good. Their defense is exceptional.
They have not missed on a defensive draft pick it
seems like in three years. So Adam gross Bard is
reporting that no sign of Matt Stafford at Rams to
start practice. So there's some back concerns about Matt Stafford.
(26:35):
A couple of years ago, there was concern I was
told two years ago Les Snead and Sean McVay with
just you know, he took a lot of hits in Detroit,
and he's expensive, but it's not outrageous. He is an
unbelievable leader. He's the last old quarterback that will sit
and take a helmet to the teeth. He's great. But
(26:56):
there are concerns the Rams. Remember they moved back last year.
They have two first round picks. The Rams are going
to draft a quarterback. They did not like this quarterback class.
They're going to draft a quarterback next year in the
first round, even if Matt Stafford is good. So it's
a fascinating year for the Rams because they love Stafford,
but he has a back disc issue and their left
(27:20):
tackle has a blood clot issue, I believe, so the
two things they really need next year's draft. And I
was surprised they did not draft a corner I said
that they did not draft a corner. They went with
another outside linebacker and inside linebacker because you know, they
reportedly love them, but they need a They need a
(27:41):
tackle and a quarterback and a cornerback. So the Rams
are really really good, but this is a little disturbing.
Matt Hasselback, who was in the NFL for a while,
he knows the aches and pains of an old quarterback,
talked about Stafford and his back issues.
Speaker 10 (27:57):
The closest thing I could equate it to is like
you burn your mouth, like on a hot piece of
pizza or something, and it just it doesn't get better quick.
And that's kind of what the back injury typically is.
There's all different types of back injuries, but they just
don't seem to get better quick. And then even if
they do get better.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
You've missed all.
Speaker 10 (28:14):
This time of like heavy weight training or physicality that
goes into your off season, and you're just not the
version of yourself that you normally are. So I'd be
very concerned if I was a Rams fan right now,
just because Stafford is valuable and it's just not a
great place to be up.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Been there, and it's interesting that the Rams went and
got Davante Adams. They drafted another running back, and they
drafted a high draft pick tight end, so they and
they did not draft an offensive tackle, which I thought
was a need, so they want it feels like it's
a last hurrah. They gave an extension to Kien Williams,
(28:51):
so the running back class now has Blake Korum Kyen Williams,
a kid they drafted out of Auburn, I think in
the fourth round. And they added Devonte Adams to Puka
Nakua Terrence Ferguson, very good Oregon tight end, added him
to Tyler Higsby, who's a very solid BB plus tight end,
so it does feel like they're giving him pukin Devonte
(29:13):
Adams another tight end, another running back, but they did
pass on the offensive line, so Rob Hevenstein's a great
right tackle, but he's got maybe a year or two left,
so it is it's a little problematic, a little concerning
that Stafford and I don't need him playing in the preseason.
I said, I don't want Aaron Rodgers kirk cousin Stafford,
older guy's been banged up. I don't want him playing
(29:35):
in the preseason. I have no interest in him playing
in the preseason. But it's just something to keep your
eye on, because I mean, they they they know, and
the Rams have been very good about spotting problems. Two
years ago they had Stafford concerns injuries, but he was
He's so damn good when he plays and he's upright.
But he is the eighth most sacked quarterback since he
(29:55):
entered this league. You know, they they so they got
it an extra pick from the Atlanta Falcons first round.
So j Max got the Atlanta Falcons like crushing this year. Privately,
they wouldn't say it because Raheem Morris, the head coach
of Atlanta's very one of Sean mcvay's best friends. But
it would do the Rams really well. If remember Les Snead,
(30:18):
his son plays at Texas. He was spotted talking to
arch Manning. They drafted Jordan winning Hand, the wide receiver,
kind of the team leader, in the sixth round. He
popped last year in a couple of games. So they've
got they've got a lot of information at the University
of Texas. They're going to draft the quarterback. And I
had been told a year ago they just did not
like the cam Wards Shadoor Jackson dark class. They just
(30:40):
Riley Leonard they didn't think of They told me that
a year before. They didn't love the class. They really
like this class. So the question is if Atlanta's good
and the Rams are good, that's too late first round picks.
They're not going to be able to move up. They
just they're not going to be able to move up
to a top four or five pick. So you kint
of hope Atlanta mediocre and then all of a sudden,
(31:02):
Atlanta's got the thirteenth pick coupled with their first, you
can move up to six or seven. But if Atlanta's good,
it puts them in a weird spot. Stafford's old. They
they day and remember, you got like three teams next year.
That what the Rams have to hope for is Jackson
Dart is really good.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So the Giants have their quarterback. You got to root
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You got to root for all these young Michael Pennix
is good but not too good. That Baker Mayfield and
Tampa win the division. I mean, this is what you're
kind of hoping for.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Let me ask Colin.
Speaker 8 (31:37):
Till So I know this is a pipe dream Rams
getting Arch Manning. So I did this Friday when you
were on the golf course. Let me give you the
team and you tell me if Arch Manning, who let's say,
has a good not the best season ever, but a
really good season. He's thinking about coming out if the
New Orleans Saints get the first pick. Artist, he's familiar
(31:58):
with the city, the France guy. Does he come out?
Does Arch leave Texas to go to New Orleans if
they get the number one pick?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I think, yeah, okay, let.
Speaker 8 (32:09):
Me go with another one, Indianapolis Colts. Let's say the
bottom falls out. DJ stinks, Anthony Richardson's a joke. They
can fire the coach and draft Art one. Peyton Manning
went to Indy. Does Arch come out if Indy gets
the number one pick?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Okay, so that's true.
Speaker 8 (32:25):
Now this is the long shot Dallas Cowboys. We don't
think they're gonna be great, But all of a sudden
it's like, hey, well we can just dust Shottenheimer after
a year.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
We could get you a new coach.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Arch, come on down. Does Arts leave early for Dallas? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Is the Mannings Yeah, Mannings no business. Yeah, so it
might take is this is if Arch is great, which
I think he will probably.
Speaker 8 (32:46):
Now I didn't even mention the New York Giants could
be in play. Now I know you're on this hype train.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Could be good.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
There's a world where the Giants stink call in and
get the number one pick. Is he coming out for
the New York Giants?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Also could fire Dable get whoever they want?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, I played it. So now we're getting to, oh
my gosh, how many.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Teams are there that Archs would come out for.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, I think your bigger point is the four teams
that could possibly draft him all have a Manning connection.
Eli knows the owner of the Giants, obviously, Peyton knows
Ersay's daughters, the Saints and Arch. It's like, literally, if
Roger Goodell had the root for anything, it would be
Archs to the Saints.
Speaker 8 (33:22):
That would be mentioned Cleveland, and you have talked about
the connections.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
No, Jimmy Sexton, Jimmy Sexton, Nick Saban, Haslam, the Mannings.
Remember you know Peyton went to school at Tennessee. Who's
the biggest booster of Tennessee. I think Haslam is probably
one or two. So it's just interesting that all the
Manning connections are the top five teams that will probably
(33:47):
be drafting Arch Manning, and my guess is one of
them will feel like a really good landing spot.
Speaker 8 (33:53):
Can you imagine how devastated New Orleans would be if
Art said I'm not coming out and the city that
he knows great is left holding the bag?
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Would no arch manay that would that would hurt?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
We'll see you tomorrow. The hurt
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, he's been covering the NFL for twenty eight years,
and he drops his quarterback tears every year in August
before he goes on Vaca.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And it's fascinating for us in August.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
This is what fifty gms and assistant gms and executives.
And I know everybody doesn't like anonymous quotes. I've been
doing this thirty years. You get better quotes from their
anonymous I mean, let's be honest. If your best friend
or wife drive you crazy, sometimes you tell a buddy
or a friend what you wouldn't tell your best friend
of your wife. Like people anonymously, I have a little
more courage and can air things out. And Mike Sandos
(01:03):
the recipient of many of those juicy tidbits of information.
He know Jones, senior NFL writer at the athletic. So
I was, I'll tell you this the one that really
jumped out to me, and I you know, I know,
I'm a little high on my sauce here because I
love I predicted Bo Nicks would go to the Broncos,
(01:24):
and I watched him play live twice and I loved
him when I watched him play Utah and Washington, so
that he did well, you know, it's a confirmation bias.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
But he received less two tier.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Votes than caliber Drake May So is that telling me
that GM's are telling you we love Sean Payton or
there are still people that think he's over achieving and
he has a low ceiling con.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Like it's like one fewer Tier two vote than those guys.
I've got no worry about how anyone's seen him. I
think they really like him. And one of the great
quotes I put in there was, hey, the order of
this class is not set. Jayden Dangeles looks great, but
this is going to be a referendum in the quarterback
developing abilities of Cliff Kingsbury and Sean Payton as much
(02:09):
as anything. So I think that's a very bold endorsement
of Bo Nicks. And for these guys that have only
played a year, sometimes they get Tier four votes. Not
enough information is one of the sort of bailouts for that.
So you got some people who haven't seen him, or
didn't see them enough, or just want to see more.
I think there's lots of optimism on bo Nicks, and
like I said, even some who haven't set in stone
(02:32):
what the order of this class is going to be,
and they're allowing for the fact that maybe bo Nix
in a year is the one at the top.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So the quotes about Caleb Williams, Holy, Whenever I see alarming,
you know, all I can think of is sirens going off.
Somebody pulled the fire extinguisher in high school alarming.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Were you alarmed when you got those?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Were you surprised at how negative the Caleb william discussion.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Was a little bit, you know, I have sensed some
of it from Ben Johnson in his public comments this offseasons,
talking about we're not a poem's up type of team.
Body language. He even made a reference was a little
arcane earlier in the offseason about something statistically about you know,
EPA or something, And the bells went off in my
mind because EPA counts sacks well who took a lot
(03:21):
of sacks. To me, that was I was reading into that, probably,
but I felt like he's put that team in, Caleb
on alert, He's got the juice there, and it's going
to be very interesting to see how it comes together.
In light of the fact that so many of the
people I talked to said, hey, Kat Williams has Tier
one talent, it's going to be good for him with
Ben Johnson, but man, his ability to process the game quickly,
(03:44):
that was not there, and that was alarming.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, so I made a joke.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Jalen Hurts doesn't tend to do well in these and
my take has been they had a buy in Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
After the buye, the staff said we'd be.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Better if you threw less, And I've joked that if
my bosses came to me and said, Colin, we love
the show, but if you could talk last, it'd be
way better. Probably some indictment on my verbal ability. So
that's what I look at Jalen is when you ask
him to throw thirty thirty five times, he's not the
same guy. So when I see eight, nine, ten, I
(04:21):
think he's the best podium quarterback, the most mature. I
think the push push is historically unique. I don't love
him from the pocket. What kind of quotes do you
get for our audience that hasn't read this about him?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Funny ones. Everyone was like apologizing for how low they
had him. They love Jalen Hurts, they love what he's
all about. They think he's good, they think he's perfect
for him, but you're right. They don't think he can
do it as a volume passer, and they think he
probably benefits as much or more from what's around him
and the context handing en off. And then if you
put him in a different system or on a different team,
(04:56):
that he may sink in this whereas hey maybe it
just and Herbert. If you put him in a different system,
maybe he would take off. Or some of these Heather
guys that are that are even higher than that in
Tier one would do better as stars. When you play Hurts,
you have to have a plan. But you're not like,
oh my god, we're playing Hurts right, You're you're playing
that whole system, that whole team.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Hi, this is Jay.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
I'm the producer of the Pauli and Toni Fusco Show.
Usually in these promos they asked you to listen to
the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen
to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who
have the dumbest takes on sports, imagicable. Don't listen to
the show so it can get camps.
Speaker 6 (05:40):
What the hell are you doing our studio get him, Pauli,
Ignore that fool. Listen to the Pauline Tony Fusco Show
on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
He's still moving.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I'll get to Jad and Daniels eventually. The quarterback that
I think is really good is Jordan Love. So I
had joke for years I had more video of Bigfoot
than Jordan Love for three years at practice, like they
wouldn't release video.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Then I saw him and I was like, oh, this
is rough.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Matt Leflure criticized him at a press conference.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Then I saw him.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I'm like, oh, this kid's got a whip, this is
an arm. This kid is something. And then last year
he's banged up, but he kind of regresses. So where
are we according to your fifty GMS assistant gams?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Where are we on Jordan Love?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Well, he's low tier two. The only guy lower in
tier two is brock Pirty. I think with a feeling
that he has the talent to ascend higher in tier two.
But I thought the quotes on him were fascinating all
over the place. One guy said, Hey, I think that
Matt Lafleur is actually holding him back by you know,
running his offense and should be tatered around him. And
another one was like, hey, this guy, Jordan Love is
(06:52):
propped up by the big skill players around him. And
I think another one was, you know, talking about just
you know that he's really hasn't taken that next step
and you wonder why, and it seems odd that he
throws the ball deep so much, like was this part
of the plan or is he a throwback to guys
who wing it down the field? Some that plays into
(07:13):
the interceptions. I just felt that wasn't focused. The talk
around him wasn't as focused. I don't have as good
of a field of direction.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, you know what, I'm going to defend him.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Them drafting a receiver in the first round tells you
that they don't trust their group of receivers. There's some
health issues, some drop issues, some immaturity issues. And by
going after a receiver from Texas who I like that
And I think Green Bay historically drafts pretty smart. They do,
they draft and develop. I think it kind of spoke
volumes about it's not a Jordan issue, it's you know what,
(07:46):
these receivers, we got some we got some issues here.
So I'm on the Jordan love bandwagon. You've been doing
this twelve years. Is there a common thread or is
every year just a basket of surprises for you?
Speaker 4 (08:01):
It's really not surprising as I do it, and I'm
more interested in what surprises the public. So like the
first conversation I had yesterday morning, you know, was if
someone was all over me about Jalen Hurts and he
wasn't higher. I didn't see that coming at all. Maybe
I should have, but you just get you're kind of
so on the inside talking to people for so long
that it all sort of makes sense. And then there's
(08:22):
some outlier votes, you know, among them. You know, I
think there's debate over why would Josh Ellen or Lamar
Jason get any Tier two votes some things like that,
But overall, I think it really makes a lot of sense.
It feels right to me.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
When you do talk about the great ones. Mahomes did
not have a great year. He was tremendous as the
team was in those one score games where I think
they were like eleven and zero or something, and a
lot of that's just Andy's coaching. Mahomes clutch play. I mean,
they're just an expirit like the Patriots in Foxboro during
Brady Man, if it was close, you just had a
(08:56):
feeling l way they're going to win certain games when
you would people talk about Mahomes because statistically he doesn't
blow you away.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
He's not as big as Alan, He's not as electric
running as Jaden or Lamar. What do they say about Mahomes?
Is he still viewed as sort of it?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah? Yes. One of the great quotes in there was
like he sort of has the Brady seat right now,
right because of his pedigree, because of his winning, because
of he's always in the AFC Championship Game every year.
I think for him to be perceived as falling off,
it's going to take more than his stats not being glittering,
because everyone knows how good he is, and he finishes
those games. I think it's going to take, like, you know,
(09:38):
an early early playoff ecs that with mediocre stats, Well,
Josh Allen is the undisputed MVP and goes to the
super Bowl. Right, there's no one really knocking Mahomes off
that perch until they don't have the team's success, which
he's driving a lot. With those end of game heroics.
It just feels a little less sustainable, doesn't. He can't
go eleven and zero in one score games forever. It
just doesn't happen. So is this the that Denver beats him?
(10:01):
You know, Denver wins the division and they don't miss
the playoffs, but they're one and done. It hasn't happened yet.
I think if it does, we'll see the conversation shift
a little.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
One of the players I'm constantly supporting and I get
more and more pushback is Justin Herbert. And my take is, well,
he got two coordinators as head coaches and it didn't work.
And frankly, until Hardball got there, I didn't. I mean,
Rashaun Slater worked, but I didn't, you know, Joe alt
short up what was always a Okay, at best o line,
(10:33):
what do you hear? It's anytime it's anonymous, people are
more honest.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I love Herbert's size, his toughness. What do people say though,
you kind of.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Hey, is something missing because they haven't had more success
in the postseason in some of those close games. I
think that's been part of it. One of the interesting
ones from I think it was a defensive coordinator said, hey,
he's really good. He can do everything, but he's a
click slower than those the elite guys just in terms
of his I don't know if it was the processing
(11:05):
or just the quickness of playing the game. So I
think he's right where he probably belongs, top of tier two,
the talent to go to tier one, But another question
is can you go to You're gonna go to tier one?
In that offense, one of the guys was like, hey,
don't they have like eighteen running backs on their team?
You know, do they even want to have that type
of season? So he doesn't have the team success that
Mahomes has. He can't have Mahomes type stats and people
(11:28):
say you're tier one anyway. He almost needs the stats
in the absence of the team's success. To get into
that top group.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, and for the record, Mike, Mike Sander joining us
for our radio audience. Harbaught, you can go Stanford to
the Niners, to Michigan. He's never built his team around
wide receivers. I mean Michigan won and Natty with one
NFL receiver. The Niners had Michael Crabtree. You can't name
the Stanford wide receivers. So he's not really I mean,
he passed on a receiver, Brian Thomas. He loved to
(11:57):
get Joe Olt. That's just who he is. He is
a He's never going to be a guy that builds
sideline in.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
And it's about the team. And I'm I'm fine with
that for your team. I think history has shown that,
you know, history has shown that the John Harbaughs and
Mike Tomlins and Pete Carroll's and Bill Belichick's value the team.
There's always going to be people saying you should let
Russ cook or let this guy throw, but they have
a way of putting together a team. It's about the team,
(12:25):
not about the player. And so you don't get a
spectacular season sometimes from the quarterback, whereas we see Aaron
Rodgers and Drew brees with offensive coaches have incredible seasons,
but you know, only one Super Bowl win, right, because
maybe it got to be a little bit too much
about the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And finally, Jayden Daniels, I had said a couple times
on the show today, I love the kid, but he
beat one playoff team and that was the Eagles when
Kenny Pickett played most of the game. He got a
very very Dan Snyders out of town. It wasn't toxic.
The cow Boys weren't very good. The Giants were awful.
(13:03):
You start looking at the times he played a Baker,
a Lamar, a Jalen Hurts. He didn't win those shootouts.
Was there any pushback at all on Jade and Daniels that, Hey, listen,
it was a pretty comfortable year one.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I need to have you as one of the voters
next year. That was pretty good, pretty good pushback on Jaden.
I didn't get pushed back that hard on me. You know,
he did beat Burrow early in the year, right with
that time ball down the sideline. I thought that was good.
You know, I think for him it's rare to get
to the championship game with the rookie quarterback and a
bottom ten defense in a place where, yes, the culture
was better, but they haven't done anything there, so he
(13:37):
clearly drove it. I think everyone was very impressed with
his poise, no questions about his processing, and oh, by
the way, he's super elusive. I think the question probably
is more about, you know, he got banged up a
little bit with the ribs. He's not the thickest guy.
Is he gonna you know, is he gonna wear down
or get banged up? But I didn't see any red flags.
(13:58):
I sort of here in your red flags. I look
at it this way though. Stroud and Herbert are the
two other guys since I've been doing this that finished
almost as high as him, and their debuts in quarterback
tears and in Herbert's case kind of plateau. He's good
but hasn't really become the Tier one guy. And then
Stroud in his second year, you know, his number of
(14:20):
Tier one votes went from twelve to one. So that's
why he's not in Tier one. Jayden Daniels, they want
to see it again against defensive coordinators that are going
to be ready, but I don't necessarily. Those are some
interesting things you brought up, but I don't know that
they're red flags, right, They're not like fatal flaws. They're
just trying to keep in mind that, Hey, if they
go nine and eight and he, you know, isn't in
the MVP conversation, that may be realistic.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, I don't think, by the way, I think he's special,
so I don't think he's going to go back.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
And I would even defend CJ. Stroud.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
All his receivers got hurt. In Tunzel had a so
so year. So Mike Sando. It's the athletic covering the
NFL for twenty eight years. You can spend several hours
on it. It's just a lot of fun. It's a
great read. Go on vacation with your fam. It's great
seeing you, Mike.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
I appreciate I would love you, but I had my
vacation already. We we talked in the break. My vacation is
done before I do, so I take a vacation now.
I think they might move on. They might want less
of sand up like you were talking about, less of
loss of colin. So, yeah, I appreciate it. I'm gonna
see what I can do on that vacation though. Yeah, Camp,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I think a pre and a post tier vacation is
very reasonable for all the publicity.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
The athletic next contract that's going in. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, thanks, thanks Mike, love I love it so much,
love it. It was such a gift. Monday on the train
to work, What a gift.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Here is j Mack with the news.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
Turn.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
This is the Herdline news.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
All right, Colin, Let's start with a couple of our teammates.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Here a Fox.
Speaker 8 (15:48):
Tom Brady sat down with Shoel Klatt recently and talked
to you about quarterbacks in the game of football today
that remind him of himself.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Brady only named one guy.
Speaker 9 (16:00):
It's always that line about who wants to win versus
who's willing to do whatever it takes to win.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Because everyone wants to win. Everyone wants to win.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
But what are the habits in the daily habits and
the actionable things you need to do every day to
put your team in a position to win. So Patrick
mahomes Me is the one that does that the most
offensure because who he is, I mean obviously his physical talent,
how he understands what he needs to do offensively, and
he brings a consistent winning attitude to work every single day,
(16:32):
in the biggest moments, you can depend on him the most.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's reasonable. I think
in the biggest moments it feels different. And you know,
so much of quarterbacking is those critical moments. I've said
this before. Michael Jordan had bad games in the finals,
a couple against the Jazz and the Sonics, and he
had bad games and bad shots. But generally in the
(16:58):
biggest moments, took over or Shaq Kobe, you know, Steph
takes over. Is Mahomes has bad halves. Mahomes has bad games,
but on third down and four in the red zone
with forty eight seconds left, that's where he's got the
Brady MJ. L Way thing. He just is consistently a
(17:21):
notch better. And I think, yeah, it's he's not always pretty.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
He's not he's had go go.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Last year he had eight or nine games or halves
he just wasn't dialed in. But it was usually the
first half or a game they won anyway, when he
had to have a big drive. There is a reality
of he just clicks. I mean, I largely agree. I
would put a guy like Jalen Hurts in that category.
(17:47):
I would put Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
The only problem is two of the three.
Speaker 8 (17:51):
Guys having won, so it's tough to like even mention
them in the same sentence as Brady. But yeah, I
largely like that, and listen, I may bask the Chiefs
a lot, but let's be real.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Mahomes is legendary.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
That's obvious.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Next Joy Colin, let's uh, Let's go back to Caleb
Williams for a moment. He's had a rough preseason, shoppy
under his new head coach. Well former Dolphin Tarron Armstead
watched joint practices between the Bears and Dolphins and had
some takeaways explaining why Williams has been benched.
Speaker 7 (18:22):
Caleb's process playing that quarterback position has to improve fast,
and pretty fast. In my opinion, on a consistent basis,
Caleb was not able to.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Recognize where he was in danger.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
He wasn't feeling pressure, he wasn't feeling blitzes, he wasn't
seeing blitzes and threats pre sing out uh. Anthony Weaver,
the Dolphins defensive coordinator, was able to send guys from
from all different spots on the field, and man, a
lot of those got home.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
A lot of those would have been sacks.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, that that's pretty alarming. I mean, and that's what
we're hearing. It's the process thing. Nobody's saying arm movement,
nobody's and the processing thing. You know, you and I
have said this before. He had a lot of college starts.
He had him in Oklahoma, he had a USC So
it's not like a lack of stars. Anthony Richardson hasn't
(19:18):
played enough football, a lot of starts, two programs, good
offensive coach, I mean, Lincoln Riley's above average college offensive coach.
So there's a lot of things here like it should work,
a lot of starts, good offensive coaches, strong, big arm all.
The reason we're all flummixed by it is we can't
(19:39):
see the processing. Everything you see, you're like, oh, that's good.
I mean Greg co SEL's like, oh yeah, he throws
an unbelievable Josh Allen like powerball. So the processing, though,
is a lack of film study, is it? He doesn't
feel comfortable in the pocket like I think last year
we thought that the Bears online was young, it would upgrade.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
It regressed badly.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
So I think some of it is Ben Johnson just
wants the ball out faster, just get rid of the ball,
eliminate sacks. You know, It's like even Belichick said about Brady,
his second best strength was he got the ball out
of his hands.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
He didn't get hit.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And you can always make more yards handing the ball
or passing the ball to somebody else than you can
do yourself. So I think a lot of what Ben
Johnson's trying to do. First read, second read, no hero ball,
and some of Caleb's habits at USC at the end
and last year are bad habits.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Getting those that's going to be difficult.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
Final story, Colin, is this guy named Travis Kelsey who
you're obviously familiar with. He is an international superstar at
this point. Now, he has admitted that his last two
seasons haven't been up to his standards because he was
excited to venture into a new world of acting and
being an entertainer.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So he's admitting it.
Speaker 8 (20:53):
He later added that his only goal is to win
a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Also, this was at in.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
A GQ cover story.
Speaker 8 (21:00):
Colin GQ all right yesterday Obviously, he talked about Taylor
Swift coming on his podcast.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
To promote a new album.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Okay, look at Travis.
Speaker 8 (21:12):
There look at his outfit, Colin, I mean, really, GQ.
Travis Kelcey looks like a guy from the Stone Ages.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Well man, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Way again, he's not a quarterback. I thought he was
going to retire. I'm I'm gonna give him a little
pass for one year dating the world's most famous pop
star as a tight end. As they drafted another tight
end a couple years ago, Noah Gray to reduce his role.
Was he good when it mattered in the third down,
(21:45):
the fourth down, the big games?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
By and large.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yes, he's also had his self admission as ten surgeries,
so I'm surprised he came back to play so.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Again at the end of your car.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You know, Brady started doing commercials after he beat at
Land in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Even Tom's like, I'm in commercials.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
If you're at the end of a Hall of Fame career,
you have your money, your fame, your legacy, and multiple
rings in which you have been the number one receiver.
I'm gonna give you a year that you got a
little sidetracked with the world's biggest pop star.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And I still thought he was good last year.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
He just he had now admits sometimes you get distracted
I mean, can.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
You just quantify good?
Speaker 8 (22:24):
Last year it was by almost every metric, the worst
season of his career, of his career, right worst year
of his saying, those terrible numbers for his career are
still good for an average title.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Kyle Pitts would kill for the like that kind of
NAT's try.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I get again, if everybody, if life is circumstantial, if
in any industry, you had ten to twelve years where
you're remember he was a middle of draft pick. If
you were great, and then let's say you went through
a divorce, or you went through a tragedy in your family,
or you were just distracted. You you you're going through
(23:00):
a tough time. You get one out of twelve years,
you're not quite buttoned up. He's been an unbelievable blocking,
catching leader.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
There's everything about him I love. So, I mean, that's
an interesting point. Hey, he's had a great run.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Let's give me in.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
So if my wife kicks me to the curb and
I start dating Sydney Sweeney and I start showing up
there a little sauce for the news, would you be like, hey,
let's get Jamaka pass.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
He's been with a no no, I want about four
more years of that, by the way, By the way,
he was still named a Pro Bowler. He went to
his third rate Super Bowl, the worst season of his career.
Here are the numbers top five and receiving among tight
ends at his age. He's thirty six, so again, by
(23:46):
his standards, worst of his career, he was still a
top five tight end. He was still the number one
target in big games. And by the way, because their
receiving crew is a mess the last two years, he
draws more doubles like it was different when Tyreek Hill
was getting a like he has become like the de
facto third down guy and the run game is not
as good as you want.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
You admit it, though, he.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Was like a fringe top five tight end. And he's
getting older and he's doing GQ four, you would.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Be enjoying life.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
Now, let's say this season he falls to he's a.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Top twelve tight end, then he should retire.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Interesting tight ends block he's old, he's had ten surgeries.
He was third in receptions among tight ends. That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Where was he in the Super Bowl?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Didn't have a great super Bowl, The team did not
have a great Super Bowl.
Speaker 8 (24:33):
The championship game, what are you doing, Allen.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I don't remember that on Foggy I just know they won.
J Mack, he did lead the Chiefs in receiving yards.
That's another one. The stay Well it's something Jmack with
the news.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd Line news.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I mean again, you get into these Lebron and Brady
where they don't have down years. But it's just not
the way it just not the way it mostly works people.
You know, even a great quarterback, you change coordinators, you'll
lose your left tackle, you get hit more. I mean,
I look at Kelsey. Is when you're that good for
(25:14):
that long at that physical a position, and then you
start dating the world's most famous pop star, you're gonna
get a little distracted. It's he's a great looking guy
with one hundred and fifty million net worth. And for
the record, Lebron James, as great as he is, his
(25:38):
average is fallen for straight ears. He's just he has spurts.
Travis Kelsey has spurts, he has games, he has halves,
he has moments. But you know these it's father time
and I think I thought he would retire. I think
he's got one more year then he'll retire. That seems
(25:59):
fitting next to Herd.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
and noone Easter, not a Empacific.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
So a team that we know is good.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Don't forget that the Rams took the Philadelphia Eagles to
the last series of the game in a snowstorm. For
an LA team, Rams are good. Their defense is exceptional.
They have not missed on a defensive draft pick it
seems like in three years. So Adam gross Bard is
reporting that no sign of Matt Stafford at Rams to
start practice. So there's some back concerns about Matt Stafford.
(26:35):
A couple of years ago, there was concern I was
told two years ago Les Snead and Sean McVay with
just you know, he took a lot of hits in Detroit,
and he's expensive, but it's not outrageous. He is an
unbelievable leader. He's the last old quarterback that will sit
and take a helmet to the teeth. He's great. But
(26:56):
there are concerns the Rams. Remember they moved back last year.
They have two first round picks. The Rams are going
to draft a quarterback. They did not like this quarterback class.
They're going to draft a quarterback next year in the
first round, even if Matt Stafford is good. So it's
a fascinating year for the Rams because they love Stafford,
but he has a back disc issue and their left
(27:20):
tackle has a blood clot issue, I believe, so the
two things they really need next year's draft. And I
was surprised they did not draft a corner I said
that they did not draft a corner. They went with
another outside linebacker and inside linebacker because you know, they
reportedly love them, but they need a They need a
(27:41):
tackle and a quarterback and a cornerback. So the Rams
are really really good, but this is a little disturbing.
Matt Hasselback, who was in the NFL for a while,
he knows the aches and pains of an old quarterback,
talked about Stafford and his back issues.
Speaker 10 (27:57):
The closest thing I could equate it to is like
you burn your mouth, like on a hot piece of
pizza or something, and it just it doesn't get better quick.
And that's kind of what the back injury typically is.
There's all different types of back injuries, but they just
don't seem to get better quick. And then even if
they do get better.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
You've missed all.
Speaker 10 (28:14):
This time of like heavy weight training or physicality that
goes into your off season, and you're just not the
version of yourself that you normally are. So I'd be
very concerned if I was a Rams fan right now,
just because Stafford is valuable and it's just not a
great place to be up.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Been there, and it's interesting that the Rams went and
got Davante Adams. They drafted another running back, and they
drafted a high draft pick tight end, so they and
they did not draft an offensive tackle, which I thought
was a need, so they want it feels like it's
a last hurrah. They gave an extension to Kien Williams,
(28:51):
so the running back class now has Blake Korum Kyen Williams,
a kid they drafted out of Auburn, I think in
the fourth round. And they added Devonte Adams to Puka
Nakua Terrence Ferguson, very good Oregon tight end, added him
to Tyler Higsby, who's a very solid BB plus tight end,
so it does feel like they're giving him pukin Devonte
(29:13):
Adams another tight end, another running back, but they did
pass on the offensive line, so Rob Hevenstein's a great
right tackle, but he's got maybe a year or two left,
so it is it's a little problematic, a little concerning
that Stafford and I don't need him playing in the preseason.
I said, I don't want Aaron Rodgers kirk cousin Stafford,
older guy's been banged up. I don't want him playing
(29:35):
in the preseason. I have no interest in him playing
in the preseason. But it's just something to keep your
eye on, because I mean, they they they know, and
the Rams have been very good about spotting problems. Two
years ago they had Stafford concerns injuries, but he was
He's so damn good when he plays and he's upright.
But he is the eighth most sacked quarterback since he
(29:55):
entered this league. You know, they they so they got
it an extra pick from the Atlanta Falcons first round.
So j Max got the Atlanta Falcons like crushing this year. Privately,
they wouldn't say it because Raheem Morris, the head coach
of Atlanta's very one of Sean mcvay's best friends. But
it would do the Rams really well. If remember Les Snead,
(30:18):
his son plays at Texas. He was spotted talking to
arch Manning. They drafted Jordan winning Hand, the wide receiver,
kind of the team leader, in the sixth round. He
popped last year in a couple of games. So they've
got they've got a lot of information at the University
of Texas. They're going to draft the quarterback. And I
had been told a year ago they just did not
like the cam Wards Shadoor Jackson dark class. They just
(30:40):
Riley Leonard they didn't think of They told me that
a year before. They didn't love the class. They really
like this class. So the question is if Atlanta's good
and the Rams are good, that's too late first round picks.
They're not going to be able to move up. They
just they're not going to be able to move up
to a top four or five pick. So you kint
of hope Atlanta mediocre and then all of a sudden,
(31:02):
Atlanta's got the thirteenth pick coupled with their first, you
can move up to six or seven. But if Atlanta's good,
it puts them in a weird spot. Stafford's old. They
they day and remember, you got like three teams next year.
That what the Rams have to hope for is Jackson
Dart is really good.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So the Giants have their quarterback. You got to root
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You got to root for all these young Michael Pennix
is good but not too good. That Baker Mayfield and
Tampa win the division. I mean, this is what you're
kind of hoping for.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Let me ask Colin.
Speaker 8 (31:37):
Till So I know this is a pipe dream Rams
getting Arch Manning. So I did this Friday when you
were on the golf course. Let me give you the
team and you tell me if Arch Manning, who let's say,
has a good not the best season ever, but a
really good season. He's thinking about coming out if the
New Orleans Saints get the first pick. Artist, he's familiar
(31:58):
with the city, the France guy. Does he come out?
Does Arch leave Texas to go to New Orleans if
they get the number one pick?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I think, yeah, okay, let.
Speaker 8 (32:09):
Me go with another one, Indianapolis Colts. Let's say the
bottom falls out. DJ stinks, Anthony Richardson's a joke. They
can fire the coach and draft Art one. Peyton Manning
went to Indy. Does Arch come out if Indy gets
the number one pick?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Okay, so that's true.
Speaker 8 (32:25):
Now this is the long shot Dallas Cowboys. We don't
think they're gonna be great, But all of a sudden
it's like, hey, well we can just dust Shottenheimer after
a year.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
We could get you a new coach.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Arch, come on down. Does Arts leave early for Dallas? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Is the Mannings Yeah, Mannings no business. Yeah, so it
might take is this is if Arch is great, which
I think he will probably.
Speaker 8 (32:46):
Now I didn't even mention the New York Giants could
be in play. Now I know you're on this hype train.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Could be good.
Speaker 8 (32:51):
There's a world where the Giants stink call in and
get the number one pick. Is he coming out for
the New York Giants?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Also could fire Dable get whoever they want?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, I played it. So now we're getting to, oh
my gosh, how many.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Teams are there that Archs would come out for.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, I think your bigger point is the four teams
that could possibly draft him all have a Manning connection.
Eli knows the owner of the Giants, obviously, Peyton knows
Ersay's daughters, the Saints and Arch. It's like, literally, if
Roger Goodell had the root for anything, it would be
Archs to the Saints.
Speaker 8 (33:22):
That would be mentioned Cleveland, and you have talked about
the connections.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
No, Jimmy Sexton, Jimmy Sexton, Nick Saban, Haslam, the Mannings.
Remember you know Peyton went to school at Tennessee. Who's
the biggest booster of Tennessee. I think Haslam is probably
one or two. So it's just interesting that all the
Manning connections are the top five teams that will probably
(33:47):
be drafting Arch Manning, and my guess is one of
them will feel like a really good landing spot.
Speaker 8 (33:53):
Can you imagine how devastated New Orleans would be if
Art said I'm not coming out and the city that
he knows great is left holding the bag?
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Would no arch manay that would that would hurt?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
We'll see you tomorrow. The hurt
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