August 12, 2025 • 71 mins
Nick Wright breaks down the newest anonymous QB rankings from The Athletic, including Jalen Hurts' position among tier two quarterbacks and which QBs he sees rising and falling this year. Is it defensible to have Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, or Joe Burrow ahead of Patrick Mahomes? Then, Nick discusses the biggest stars of the preseason, from Cleveland Browns QB Shedeur Sanders to Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. Later, Nick weighs in on Caleb Williams not starting for the Chicago Bears before reacting to breaking news from the NBA. Finally, as always, Nick and Damonza answer your questions. #Volume
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome in What Driving Nick Right? Episode three point fifty seven.
In this episode of What's Right with Nick Right is
brought to you by boost Mobile, and our friends of
Boostmobile don't screw around. They saw Dexter, my dog the
last couple podcasts, hopping up on the couch and obscuring
the boost Mobile pillow. And now we have this fancy
thing that looks like a light, Demonse that's actually an
electrified fence. Dexter hops up there. He's zapped. Yeah for real.
(00:26):
Like they're like, no, we made good money to be
the title sponsor of What's Right with Nick Wright. We're
not gonna have some silly Portuguese water dog obscuring our
advertisement that may or may not be true. But shout
out to boost Mobile for the sick light. Demanse, how
are you? You look great?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm good. Good to see you, Pops.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
How you doing I'm doing well. Big week coming up
for Demanse as the snake should be hatching anytime, and
his baby sister flying cross country by herself. Fine to
spend a long weekend with her brother. That should be great.
And the best part of it is what when she arrives,
(01:04):
I will be rolling dice in Monaco, and so I'll
be unavailable, so you're on your own pal, but it'll
be great. So all that's going on, and I'm fired
up today. I'm fired up today because how do I
say this respectfully? People are either dumb or lying, or
(01:28):
just think that we don't have access to their previous
takes and or just you know what I mean, maybe
maybe the most the biggest indictment, I could say, just
trolling for views or clicks or content. I don't know
what it is, but I do know that I'm just
(01:48):
letting you guys know. Right now, we have eight topics
listed for today's show. Topics two through eight are going
might be bite sized because topic one could take a while.
But before we get to that, straight to voicemail again.
Brought to you by our friends at boost Mobile Cam
little seventy yard field goal. Two takes on this demands
(02:11):
A one that is now the record. I don't care.
There's the preseason. That's the record that should be in
the record books. And two I just up to the
Jags to eleven wins. I had him at ten, I
now got him at eleven. If you get to midfield
and you're in field, goal range. I mean, what do
you what a weapon? I listen, your guy, Chet, I
(02:37):
say this with respect. It's just he's got it. He's
got to grow up, like go ahead.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It was a little outlandish. But why is every guy
that's doing something like bad or not great? Why is
it always my guy?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I feel like you, I feel it's what I feel like. Well,
here's the thing, do you or do you not? Feel like?
I have been too skeptical of Chet because I don't
like how skinny is. Were you or were you not
more pro Chet than me? So on this show between
the two of us, he's your guy. He's certainly my guy.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Anti Chet, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well I'm not anti Chet either, but I'm getting there.
And also the Wilds was a big check guy. And
then and then Wild's read an interview with Chet where
they asked him about his favorite books and his answer
was just all coffee table books with a bunch of pictures.
He was like, it was like, I've got this book
on Rolexes, which is just the pictures of Rolexes. And
(03:40):
Wilds came to the conclusion that Chet maybe has never
read a book, and so he soured on him a bit.
And now he's dressed like a seventies pimp and his
buddy's wedding not great and Ceedee lamb, this is like
funny because he's fine. Ceedee. Liam could have got legit
hurt there. Yeah, like that little that whiplash thing back
when all the way up. Yeah, that was a scary.
(04:03):
That was a scary moment.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
All right, I'm about that ref man, wait room.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I know the reps running full speed, probably running full
Steed runs into him. Yeah, and CD, you know, is
limber enough. So I thought the ref was fine. I
was worried about CD. Reminder to everyone, please like, rate, subscribe, review,
In fact, do it right now. If you're watching on YouTube,
click the like button. If you're listening to the podcast
(04:28):
and you're not subscribed, subscribe. And if you are subscribed,
it takes two seconds. Click a little five stars. You
don't have to leave a word review, just give it
five stars. That's all YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, all that, all right,
demanse It says, the first topic is asenine quarterback rankings.
Go ahead. Yeah, So a couple of.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
QB polls came out quarterback rankings, whatever you want to
call him. So Bill Simmons debuted his quarterback pyramid, and
he had Josh Allen at the top. Dan Orlowsky came
out with a bunch of traits that quarterback should have
about six, that Patrick mahomes number one, and about the
same amount of categories as Daniel Jones.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So which one? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Zero?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So which one of these is enraging you more? Which
one do you want to ask?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh, it's definitely Simmons's and we're gonna deep dive on
it because it is not lost on me that my
pal and I like Bill. Bill and I have a
good relationship. But it is not lost to me that
Bill Simmons kind of kicks off his full NFL coverage
(05:31):
with a podcast that debuts a quarterback pyramid and whose
main guest is Kevin Wilds. I'm not saying that Bill
that this was a direct shot at me, and you know,
trying to pull apart first things first, But I'm not
saying it wasn't. So I'll get to Bill in a second.
(05:53):
But on Orlofsky's thing, listen, I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna argue with Dann obviously knows the quarterback position better
than me. I what I am gonna say is this
arm strength he has Josh Allen one, Patrick two, no problem.
I actually agree with that, and I actually think you
(06:15):
could be tricky with that one. There might be you
might be able to say Herbert could be ahead of
Patrick Hell. I don't know if Joe Milton's availed eligible,
like he could be like that just the raw arm
strength Josh Allen one is totally fine, no beef whatsoever.
Then it gets dumb ball placement. Patrick Mahomes five behind
(06:43):
Joe Burrow again fine, Jaden, Lamar and Josh. You know,
I think that's a good take. I think a lot
of people watch Lamar, Josh and Jaden and they're like
they can just put it where they want better than
Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was just thinking, like, how much of Burrow's is
the fact that he has those Crazyr receivers. They're just gonna.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Well, No, I think Burrow is like dumb accurate because
he has to be because he's not very fast and
he doesn't have the strongest arm. So the way he
can be as successful as he is is like I
think Burrow would maybe win the contest of that net
drill that Caleb failed the other day if they did that,
(07:32):
but like made it harder and harder and harder. I
think Burrow might be my number one pick, but call
me crazy in that drill, I wouldn't take Lamar over Patrick. Again,
maybe I'm a hater. Next one, we get to mechanics
where he lists ten quarterbacks and Patrick's not one of them.
And let me tell you again, he has Lamar four. Yeah,
(07:56):
I watched Lamar play quarterback, and I'm like, man, if
only Patrick had as clean of mechanics as Lamar does,
I do like I feel that way. I think it's
a good take the other ones. And again again like
the if Geno, Dak and Golf have better mechanics than Patrick,
then maybe mechanics are overrated. But mechanics didn't. Again, Patrick
(08:19):
didn't make the top ten decision making with the football.
Patrick came in stifth again I and then this is
the this is the one that really I couldn't. I
couldn't get over pocket presence. Burrow won, Lamar two, Patrick three. Okay,
(08:40):
like whatever, I'm not gonna I don't even I don't
even know what we're doing here. But fine, that's Orlowsky's list.
He has a more fine tuned I for quarterback than me,
I suppose I think it is. I disagree with some
of those, but that's not my real beef. My real
(09:01):
beef is with Bill, because Bill debuts his quarterback pyramid
and has Josh Allen at the top. And the problem
with that is, and here's the problem with having as
long and as successful a career as Bill Simmons has had,
(09:26):
and a career that so many folks, myself included obviously
literally grew up reading every single one of your sports
takes because Bill's column was must read for every sports
fan of my generation for more than a decade. The
(09:51):
problem with having that level of influence and being having
that long of a career is earmuffs, kids, We remember
what you fucking wrote. And for fifteen years, Bill fought
(10:15):
tooth and nail against the idea that anyone would ever,
under any circumstances consider Peyton Manning better than Tom Brady,
even though for the entirety of those fifteen years, Peyton
(10:36):
had a strong, a far stronger case to be considered
better than Peyton Manning. I'm sorry that. Let me back
that up. Peyton had a far stronger case to be
considered better than Brady. Then Josh would have right now
(10:57):
to be considered better than Patrick. And this is where
all of these quarterback rankings are going to be self defeating.
But let me just quickly, off the top of my
damn head, give you the Peyton versus Tom first decade
(11:18):
history win again a reminder, my pal Bill built part
of his massive empire on the take that Tom Brady
is better than Peyton Manning. If we go two thousand
to two thousand and five, Peyton has peeled MVPs, but
(11:40):
Peyton is zero to two in the playoffs against Tom.
Tom has three championships, Peyton has none. Peyton has never
been to a Super Bowl. So even though Peyton Manning
statistically speaking, was the far superior quarterback with MVPs, he
had never beaten Tom in a big spot the championships
three to nothing. Then in two thousand and six, Peyton
(12:05):
not only wins another I'm sorry, he's already won two
MVPs at that point, plays Tom in the AFC Championship game.
Tom's up I think twenty one to three at halftime.
Peyton comes all the way back and wins the super Bowl,
wins it beats Tom. The playoffs are now two to one,
(12:26):
Peyton wins the Super Bowl, and Bill, I think justifiably,
is still even though in that moment all pros Peyton
has multiple tom As zero, MVPs Peyton has multiple tom
As zero, the playoff win loss record is two to one,
the rings are three to one. Bill is still strident,
(12:48):
steadfast correct. Tom's better, seemingly vindicated by the fact that
the next year Tom finally wins his first MVP, team
goes undefeated. They look like one of the greatest teams
ever until as double digit favorites they get beaten the
(13:08):
Super Bowl. In that moment, even though the rings were
three to one, the MVPs were two to one, the
all pros were two to one or three to one,
I'm not sure, and the playoff win loss record was
tow to one in Tom's direction in that moment, if
(13:31):
anyone had debuted the take, Peyton has passed Tom because
Tom didn't win the Super Bowl last year, Bill's head
would have exploded. And then, by the way, over the
next decade, Tom never beat Peyton in the playoffs again.
There was a brief time in Denver where it looked
(13:53):
like maybe Peyton had kind of overtaken the argument and
then Tom went on that unbelievable twenty fourteen through twenty
twenty run, Desmond himself as the goat. But every single
football take we have heard for twenty years from Bill
(14:17):
Simmons has valued playoff performance, doing it in the biggest spots.
And if you've got the belt, someone's got to come
take it from you. So when I saw the clip yesterday,
(14:41):
where the rationale for elevating Josh Allen, who is again
unlike Peyton Brady, where Peyton had the stats and Brady
had the wins, Maholmes has moral pros, more MVP, better
career numbers, five trips to the Super Bowl to zero,
(15:06):
three rings to zero, and is four and zero in
the playoffs against him. When I hear the argument that
Mahomes played so poorly in the Super Bowl, he falls
down a peg without the obvious follow up being why
(15:33):
wasn't Josh in the Super Bowl? Bill? Because he couldn't
beat Patrick again, and that is where and again, I
think Josh is the second best quarterback in the league.
Now that Josh has a league MVP, I'm comfortable calling
(15:55):
him a future Hall of Famer. I think Josh eventually
is going to break through. I think Josh's ability last
year to cut down on the turnovers and still carry
a team that wasn't all that talented at the skill position,
certainly on the outside, was wildly impressive. But we have
(16:19):
to stop acting like these have been unfair fights or
Josh hasn't had his chance in back to back years
in the playoffs. Once in Josh's building, once in Patrick's building,
(16:41):
Josh has gotten the ball late fourth quarter, down three
points the first time. He can only get them to
not the edge of field goal range, but not a
gimme field goal forty four yard or if I remember,
(17:03):
and that would have only gotten them the tie with
a couple minutes left, has a chance finished the game,
ball in your hands. Don't let Patrick come back and
get it. They come away with zero points. Then last year,
down three Conference championship game, plenty of time, can't get
(17:26):
to midfield, So do not do you cannot. And this
is why the quarterback ranking stuff right now can be
so frustrating for people. Has Patrick played in the regular
season his best ball the last couple of years? No,
(17:47):
but who are again? And I've said it before, I
will say it again. If you want to argue you
know what, Jalen hurts is the best quarterback in the league.
I don't think anyone actually believes that, except for maybe
Jalen's lovely mother, who dressed me down a bit the
(18:09):
night before the Super Bowl. I don't even think Jalen
believes that. But if you want to argue that, at
least there is a case you can make. But for
the other three guys, as I said a moment ago,
the argument becomes instantly self defeating. Burrows' claim to fame
(18:33):
is what he did in the first two the first
postseason and a half of his career, going into Arrowhead,
beating Patrick, getting to the Super Bowl, then getting back
to the AFC Championship Game, and then he had a
(18:53):
pretty miserable second half with a chance to go to
a second straight Super Bowl, got the ball, tie game,
go get a field goal, got negative yards, loses, and
has not been back to the postseason since. There is
no time in the history of Pro football when there
(19:15):
have been multiple first ballot Hall of famers active in
their prime where we would say a guy elevated himself
to best quarterback in the league in a two year
stretch where he plays zero playoff games, not eligible Lamar,
(19:35):
who's in the midst of arguably as good of a
two year regular season stretch as any player at his
position ever when that player to varying degrees, and this
past year was the most positive sign has come up
(20:01):
against the other two guys who he is in the
debate with for who's the best, and both games gotten
outplayed by and lost to in the postseason Patrick two
(20:25):
years ago and Josh last year. He's not gonna have it.
And across all of sports except for maybe there were
some people arguing Jerry West was better than Bill Russell.
But with respect, as great as the Mahomes Reed Chiefs are,
(20:48):
they are not the institutionally top to bottom more talented
team like the Russell Celtics. We have never made an
argument that win every single year for a half decade,
one guy beats and out plays another guy in the
(21:10):
postseason that the other guy's better. It's a again for
the entirety of Peyton versus Brady. When Peyton was a
cult that whole decade plus, they only played in the
postseason three times and it was two to one Tom,
(21:34):
and it was still framed correctly as if Tom held
over him in the postseason. Imagine if they played four
times and it was four to zero. And so again,
this is what I would ask my pal Bill. If
Tom had beaten Peyton in six and then gone on
(21:59):
to lose that Super Bowl and he was up three
to zero in the playoffs and the ring count was
three zero and the super Bowl count was four zero,
and someone made the argument that Peyton Manning was better
based on Tom playing poorly in this make believe two
(22:24):
thousand and six super Bowl, what would your reaction have been?
And the answer is, we know, so can we please
please have a level of consistency on this, that's all. Honestly,
(22:46):
that didn't go quite as long as I thought. And
again I'm not trying to act like I invented the
pyramid style ranking of quarterbacks. What I will say is,
if you're gonna really do it, each level has to
be one player bigger than the previous. You can't go one, two, three, four, five, five,
(23:09):
five fi five. That's not the idea that that's not
how a pyramid looks either at the and I mean
it's just not. I mean, I don't e that's a crayon.
That's how a crayon looks, not how a pyramid looks.
That's first of all. Second of all, my buddy Kate
w could have given you pointers on that when he
(23:31):
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Speaker 2 (25:05):
Mike Sandos released his annual quarterback poll. This is voted
on by execs and gms and coaches, so this is
the real deal. Year of the survey, Heyserdrive, Mahomes and
Burrow tied at number one, with Alan Lamar and Stafford
Brownie at tier one. How did some voters not have
Alan and Lamar as Tier one?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Well, guys, so that so here is what's crazier about
that demonse and this, I don't know if you remember.
Last year in this poll coming off the league, MVP
Lamar was Tier two. Yeah, dude, it is. This is
the first time in Lamar's career he's been Tier one.
(25:49):
Last year, Lamar got twenty three Tier one votes, twenty
six Tier two votes, and one Tier three vote. At
Tier three votes, it's an outge. That's just an outrage.
This year he got forty six Tier one votes and
four Tier two votes. Josh got forty seven Tier one
(26:14):
votes and three Tier two votes.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Two.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I'm not listen, I am not going to Oh, it's
it's as close to the unanimous as you can be
without being unanimous. There's clearly Listen, what you saw is
some of these executives, and you saw it kind of
throughout the voting on this Really, when they are judging quarterbacks,
(26:46):
they are almost entirely just removing improvisation and running and
that's that they are purely asking themselves, and they even
describe it. A Tier one quarterback can carry his team
(27:06):
each week. All right, So Josh and Lamar obviously are
in that category. The team wins because of him, Josh
and Lamar a in that category. He expertly handles pure
passing situations. So I think that is where people found
a way to discount Josh and Lamar, who are obviously
(27:29):
Tier one quarterbacks. I my response to them would be
those guys, first of all, they're excellent passers as is now.
I'm not Jim Harbaugh saying Lamar is the greatest pure
passer to ever play. I think that's probably a step
too far. But they are such dynamic runners that even
(27:56):
in pure passing situations they can make the play with
their legs. So, like, I just think those are bad opinions,
you know what I mean? Like say it again, games changing, Yeah,
games changing, and their ability to they they can just
beat you in a bunch of different ways. Like it
(28:18):
is you. You can't if you wanted to argue, as
I have in the past, there is only one there's
a there's a tier above Tier one, and that's the
tier Mahomes lives in. Fine, but if we're saying there's
just Tier one and those four guys, well, you know what,
let me back it up, Patrick, Josh and Lamar have
(28:43):
to be in it. I think Burrow definitively deserves to
be in it. But if someone wanted to construct a
case which is kind of the reverse of what we're
talking about on Burrow, which is, yeah, he handles pure
passing situations, but unlike the other three guys, right, he
(29:06):
can't beat you.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, he kind of carries his divise.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I mean, he carries he carries his team while he's
on the field, like I don't. I don't is tough,
but that that's not on him. But he can't. All
the other guys can beat you with their arm and
their legs. Burrow can only beat you with his arm,
but he's so good with his arm, Like listen, he's
(29:32):
clearly Tier one. And then it gets a little tricky,
which is and so like listen, I just think those
three or four voters they didn't have Alan and Lamar's
tier one, Like, it wouldn't surprise me at all if
some of them had, Like how many Tier one votes
did Herbert get? Let me look real quick. Herbert got
thirteen Tier one votes. So I bet those three or
(29:55):
four voters that didn't vote Josh and Lamar did vote Herbert.
And that's just stupid. I mean, that's just flatly dumb.
All right, Hurts, keep going on.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
That guy. He was square in the middle and the
Tier two with twelve voters given him a Tier three vote.
So as the Hurts debate put to rest.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Well, so Hurts got three Tier one, thirty five, Tier two,
and twelve Tier three and he so in Let's just
give it some context here.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Right after we said, we said Lamar got three after
he won MVP.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, yeah, after the Super Bowl year that they lost
when he came in second MVP voting. Okay, so that
was when he came in second MVP voting to Mahomes.
That year, he got ten Tier one, thirty eight Tier two,
and two Tier three. Last year, after the Supernatural Funk
(31:01):
year and the collapse at the end of the year,
he got one Tier one, thirty three Tier two, and
sixteen Tier three. This year he got two more Tier
ones up to three, two more Tier twos, up to
(31:23):
thirty five, and down to twelve Tier threes, down from sixteen.
I think having Jalen Hurts listed as a Tier three
quarterback is stupid. I want to make that clear. I
think that now the description of Tier two. If you care,
(31:45):
a Tier two quarterback can carry his team sometimes, but
not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses,
and or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to
elevate him above tier three. He has a whole or
two in his game. I think that's a perfect description
(32:08):
of Jalen Hurts. I think the actual description of can
carry his team, but not as consistently, can handle pure
passing situations in doses, and possesses other dimensions that are
special enough to elevate him above tier three, has a
(32:29):
whole or two in his game. That to me, is
a perfect description. The hole is he has never proven
he can be a high volume passer that leads to
team and individual success. But everything else he does at
a super high level. And whatever demeriage you give him
(32:52):
on pure passing situations, the absolute cheat code of the
tush push that you know is unique to him. It
would appear when I say, cheak got that in a
complimentary way.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
What I'm saying, like that would be a cat like
that would that would elevate him.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's elevates him.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Okay, what I'm saying, I was curious if.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
You no, if you're gonna knock him for there's a
point Wilde's made yesterday, and he's right. If we're gonna
knock him for in third and nine, would you rather
have Matt Stafford then we have to give him more
for the fact that it's fourth and one. You'd rather
have him than any player in the league, right, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
But is that is that him or is that the
team combo?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean, I do think the fact that he is
so strong and so tough and has mastered it, you
know what I mean, Like I saw Tanner McKee try
to do it in the preseason. It was ugly. We've
seen other teams, you know what I mean. So I
think it's you know, I think it's not all him,
but it's part of him, part of the team. But
with all that said, I the guys above him, I
(34:13):
can like Matt Stafford's number five on this list. I
love Stafford. Now. Is if Stafford's number five with an
asterisk because we're saying if he you know, if he's healthy,
that's totally fair. And if you want to say you're
gonna knock him because you know, Jalen gets hurt and
(34:35):
just you know, plays through, it's Stafford. Now, Stafford's played
through a bunch of stuff. But we are worried at
this point with his age of him missing time, so
be it. But I would rather have a healthy Matt
Stafford than a healthy Jalen Hurts. So I think Stafford
being ahead of him is fine. Jaden is tricky because
Jaden the sample size is just such good another year, right,
(34:58):
so you know what I mean, Like Jaden is it
was the greatest rookie season ever, but the sample size
is so small, and it feels like Jalen is a
safer bet. But Jaden has you know, Jayden has a
better chance of one day being number one on this
(35:19):
list than Jalen. Right, Herbert we've talked about. I think
having Herbert above Hurtz is an outrage. I think it's
I think that is just purely based on an idea
I would not have. And then barely ahead of him
is Jared Goff. I would rather have Jalen Hurts than
Jared Goff because I think they are very similar in
(35:42):
that under the right circumstances can be very dynamic and
a huge part of winning. But I think Jalen could
thrive in more circumstances than Golf. So I think Jalen's
toughness and running would translate better to a bad team
(36:03):
than Jared. So I think Jared on a bad team
plummet wild exactly and so and so I understand the
So if I were doing it, if it were mine,
and I know, I know that this is one where
(36:23):
I've probably kind of over the last six months flip
flopped a bit because at one point I said that
you can't like it's Mahomes Alan Lamar, and then if
you're gonna say it's a big four with Burrow, it's
got to be a big five with Jalen. But even
when I was saying that, deep down, I was like,
(36:46):
but I think Stafford's better. So if I were to
just do the nick right rankings, pure just me who
I would like for this season, assuming health, Patrick, Josh Lamar,
(37:11):
Joe Stafford. I want to make sure I'm not leaving
anybody out, and then I would put in Jailing. I
would put in jail In at six, Jalen six, Jaden seven,
(37:35):
Baker eight, and then it gets and then it gets
and then after that we could have a debate about
Herbert versus golf. But that's where I would you know
what I mean, That's where I would have it, and
then after them, we have a debate about CJ versus
(37:56):
Love versus Dak and then obviously I'm gonna start elevating
my guys Caleb and Trevor, but they gotta prove the
and so that's where that's where I would rank them,
(38:17):
and I I think that is so I didn't think
any of these were crazy out of line. The all right,
let's go to Rogers.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I was about to say, do you want to
talk about Rogers going from tier one to tier three?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
So I was shot that Rogers was tier one. Oh
so he so this has been wait what okay, So
this is what's interesting. So here is Rogers over the years.
So Rogers going into his final in Green Bay unanimous
(39:03):
Tier one, obvious. I think he was the back to
back defending League MVP, unanimous Tier one. Rogers going into
his first year with the Jets thirty Tier one, twenty
tier two. That again, to me was fair. I would
(39:23):
have put in tier two because I thought his last
year in Green Bay, you saw the writing on the wall,
and you saw it in evidence by his stats. You know,
the team's success, a lot of that stuff, but he
was still just a year removed from being a two
time MVP going into last year with the Jets. This
(39:47):
was a very interesting looking back on it. Voting going
Demonse going into last year again where he was coming
off the blown Achilles, he got twenty three Tier one votes.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
It's like, all, poor guy toar his Achilles and he's
gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Right, He's gonna come back with a vengines, eighteen Tier
two votes, seven Tier three votes, and two Tier four votes.
I'd have to ask Sando, and I could probably go
back and read the article. I'm not gonna do it
right now live on the air. Was he the first
(40:30):
player ever to get multiple votes in four different tiers?
To get you know, multiple Tier one and Tier four votes?
So last year going into last year, I so he
ended up averaging out. That was interesting. Last year he
got more votes for Tier one than any other tier,
(40:52):
but he averaged out to a Tier two player quarterback.
And this year so weird.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Now the guy that gave him a tier he got
one Tier one vote this year too, by the way.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Oh I clicked the wrong thing. Okay, not so weird.
So this year he got one Tier one vote. That
guy's out of his mind. Yeah, I mean that's just idiotic.
He got sixteen Tier two votes. I can't call that idiotic,
but I disagree. Twenty seven Tier three votes, just where
I would have him, and then four Tier six or sorry,
(41:29):
six Tier four votes, which is folks that think that
he's just finished, right, but where he is as far
as in the hierarchy. So Tier three quarterbacks are in order, Kyler,
Aaron Tua, Trevor, Gino Nicks, Darnald May, Caleb, Bryce Kirk.
(41:54):
Those are the Tier three for me personally, the quarterbacks
I would rather have than Aaron, every single one of
the guys Tier one and two, so that's fourteen, and
then I would rather have this year Gino, Drake, Caleb,
(42:21):
Trevor Tua, and that's probably it, not Bo Nicks, not Kyler,
and not Darnald or Bryce or Kirk. So I would
have him closer to the middle of Tier three. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Apparently Rogers was actually number two and Tier two number
seven overall. Yeah last year, Oh okay, okay, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah last year, so he he that's what I was saying.
Last year. He last year, he got more votes, he
got more Tier one votes than any other tier but
because he also got like a four votes. He he
got you know, ding down and dropped to tier two.
(43:16):
But yeah, so I would have him close to twenty.
They have him fifteen. The Kyler one's interesting because I
think having Kyler at the almost a tier two guy
(43:36):
and ahead of all those other guys, the young players
that you know you expect to pop, ahead of Gino,
ahead of Rogers, I think it is interesting. I mean,
I just wouldn't. I just don't.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
He's like low tier three.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah to me is but maybe I'm low on him,
but I I just you give him credit because last
year he was able for the first time in four
years to play all seventeen. But I just feel like
at this point we kind of know what we're getting
(44:16):
from Kyler, and he's a player that.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Once you don't like him he's too small.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Well, there is that, but it's also true that once
you start seeing Thanksgiving decorations up at the stores, you
know he's not going to be playing well. I mean,
it's just who he's been for his career. He's good
for about the first half of the season, and that
(44:46):
to me is like, I don't know why that would change,
like the and so I think that I'm not as
high on Kyler. I respect the talent, but I care
You're right about this demonte. I care about raw talent
(45:07):
way less with very small players. I just do.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
I mean that was like the best high school football player,
like ever a football quarterback.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yea, the best? Yeah, I mean, no, he's the best.
And he was a hell of a college player as well,
and he's had moments in the pros. And maybe it
was as simple as high school and college seasons or
twelve games long. You know what, mark this down. If
we ever have another strike shortened NFL year, I might
(45:38):
bet on Kyler. They come back and they're like, oh,
it's only a ten game season plus the playoffs this year.
I might be a Kyler guy that year since but
that is, but for the time being, I would have
him low tier three.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Do you want to get to that last one or
I want to just the Oh yeah, what are some
quarterbacks you see in going up a tier this year?
And who are some quarterbacks you see going down a tier?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
All right, so let me look at the full list again.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
I've opened this thing up so many times that now
I've got I've got two tabs. I do this sometimes,
all right, So let me the so let me maximize
this so.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I can look at this better. I think that going
up a tier so gosh, this is a tough one.
I think that Caleb will be Tier two going into
(46:52):
next year. I think that Right will be off the
list because I think he'll be done. I think that
Perty will probably be Tier three. He's hanging on for
(47:14):
deer life in Tier two right now. And I don't
think the Niners are going to be excellent this year.
And I think that who do I think could jump
into Tier one? You know what I'm gonna I might
go all in on this team this year. Bake Show.
Speaker 5 (47:37):
Okay, yeah, I think the I think the the Bucks
could have a monster offensive season and that I think
potentially could elevate Baker and especially if if Stafford is dinged.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
You know, if Stafford. I think Stafford was very weird
for Stafford who had been Tier two demons for eleven
straight years and then this is the year he gets
elevated when he wasn't great last year's regular season. It
was awesome in their two platforms, but wasn't great in
last year regularly.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Jordan Love I love to tier I mean, but two
to one to two.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
To one's hard, you know what I mean, Like, that's
the I am curious, Like, let me ask you this
and the answer might be none of the above, But no,
I'm not gonna allow that. You have to say a
name of the four guys who were all either unanimous
or close to it Tier one, Patrick, Joe, Josh Lamar.
(48:45):
Who do you think is that most risk, most risk
to move down?
Speaker 2 (48:53):
I think it'd be Joe Burrow, just because if they
don't make the postseason again this year, then so what
are you, like, what are we gonna say at this point?
I mean, maybe it's the defense again that.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I agree, but I think it's for a different reason.
I think the only thing that could move Joe down
is if he gets hurt again. And I think given
their offensive line and given his history, I think he's
the most obviously, of the big four, he's the most
likely to miss. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so I
that would be my answer. All right, let's talk shudor Tador.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
He looked pretty good. I mean, he look fantastic, but
he looked pretty good for a quarterback. Went there and
did his thing. Head coach Steven Kevin Stefanski still hasn't
committed to Shador, So, uh, do you think that he
showed everything he needed to do to get the starting job?
Speaker 1 (49:42):
What do you well? He's definitely not going to be
their Week one starter. That is gonna be Joe Flacco.
I don't even think. By the way, if I were Shador,
I know he can't say this, I wouldn't even want
to be the Week one starter. Like I the the
Browns open with the Ravens and then they play I'm sorry,
(50:07):
the Brown's open with the Bengals, so I wouldn't actually
hate that because of the Bengals defense, But then they
go Ravens, Packers, Lions, Viking Steelers, Like those are not defenses.
I'm interested in playing it right off, exactly right. And
I understand that the Browns just released their latest depth
chart and Shador is still number four. They did not
(50:30):
move him up at all. I don't believe it. I
think that Shadoor has now, if we are being fair,
he has taken it is now Dylan Gabriel who is
chasing Shador in the quarterback competition instead of vice versa.
(50:54):
Like the the you know the old adage you don't
lose your job due to end is total bs happens
in sports all the time. People lose their job because
of injury and because the guy who fills in for
you shows something he didn't have the opportunity to show before,
and so FLA. If Flacco is just entrenched at one,
(51:18):
which I think he is, Kenny Pickett was two and
is two on the late step chart. He's been hurt
the last couple weeks of camp. Doesn't look like he's
gonna play at all, and there he didn't play in
their first preseason game. Doesn't look like he's going to
playing their second. Dylan Gabriel is three. Gabriel, according to
all reports on the ground, has been bad in practice
(51:42):
and was injured for the first preseason game. Shadores four.
He's practiced well and I thought made four very high
level throws in that game and really only made a
couple bad mistakes.
Speaker 5 (51:59):
And.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
So I think that is enough to where he should
have taken the lead on Gabriel, and the goal for
either of these rookies flatly needed to be beat out
the other rookie. So when at when Flacco inevitably gets benched,
(52:21):
I'm the guy they go to. Now, maybe they'll go
to pick it, but I think that would be asinine,
and so now I also think this Demanse. I think
Gabriel will and should start preseason game number two, and
then you know he can if he plays well.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
And just get both of them half.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I think that's what we'll do. I could even see
him go, Demanse, quarter quarter, quarter quarter, you know what
they're thereabouts, like, I could see Gabriel playing then should,
or then Gabriel back in then should or that way,
you know what I mean, You get more time with
starting caliber players, or you know, guys that are actually
(53:04):
gonna make the team, or they each get it. But
I now think Gabriel, I think Shador is now amongst
the rookies in pole position. And I also think that,
and this is why so I thought after the game
him saying something to Tony Grosey was totally fine. And
(53:28):
I think people don't recognize how common that is that
guys sang after games in locker rooms are in the
tunnel to reporters like, hey, what was up with that?
That has happened forever? That used to happen to me.
I remember Matt Cassel saying to a different media member,
(53:49):
we're both standing there when he realized that media member.
You know what, I think it was to Mark Carmon,
our friend whose birthday was actually yesterday. I think it
was to karm that he said to him, this is
your buddy about me. He's like, yeah, He's like, he
sure talks a lot of shit, doesn't He like did
not like some of the things I had said about him.
(54:11):
That's super common. So I have no problem at all
with Shador having that moment with Tony Grossi.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
At this time, though, what you need to be worried about.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
So here is the thing on that. I think the
smile and the laugh at the end made it okay.
And I think that like charisma and charm and a
great smile can really carry Yeah, and so like that
to me was fine. I thought the walk in was
(54:45):
a misstep. I didn't think it was a grievous error,
but I thought, I'm not asking you to be someone
you're not. But turned down the volume on literally on
the boombox, I guess and also figuratively. Now I understand
(55:06):
those were his teammates, not his entourage, but still, you're
the quarterback, the guy carrying the giant walking stick staff
in the boombox. I might have been like, can we
not do that? And if you really want to walk
in like that, maybe I'll go in, you know, a
little bit after you, because it's he is. If the
(55:28):
Browns won't elevate him on their real depth chart, then
he also wants another team to trade for, you know,
And so I just don't think that helps. But I
don't think it's a huge deal. You'd certainly rather him
(55:49):
play well and have an awkward pre and postgame, then
be perfect pre and post game and play port right,
go ahead?
Speaker 2 (55:56):
No, I mean with that take, you were saying that
maybe he should show out for the Rams or maybe
the Rams look at him, because words like a mortal
chamber are being thrown around. Ye very serious. Yeah, I
don't know. So, uh do you think that's more of
a possibility now, like it's more serious.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
I think that right now he's probably worth He was
drafted with a fifth. I think he's worth at least
a fourth, you know what I mean? And so, but
I don't I think the Browns want to keep him.
I think Stefanski might be coming around if he wasn't
already there. And I think you had to be impressed
(56:36):
by how he handled himself. And how he played Uh
this Sunday? Was it Sunday? Saturday? Friday?
Speaker 2 (56:46):
It was Friday Friday.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
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dollars a month as long as they remain active on
the boost Unlimited plan. All right, demon's eight, Let's go
to Caleb. We talked enough Chiefs earlier, so we can
move on to Caleb if we can.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Caleb Williams did not play it down in the preseason game,
and Ben Johnson is not worried about that at all.
He said and quote, there is no substitute for real
live bullets. I get that. But at the same time,
when you can accumulate seventy plus reps in a day,
that's pretty good. If live action is the best option here,
then why why.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Not plays guys? So listen, I I think, and I've
said this on TV a dozen times, so I will,
you know, repeat myself here. I think in certain sometimes
you hear like, you know, to copycat league, certain things
should be copied. The way Andy Reid handles training camp
(58:30):
and preseason should be copied. The Chiefs every year are
sharper to start the year than most of the rest
of the league. Andy runs a tough training camp, they hit,
they have long practices, and Patrick plays in the preseason
and the starters play and they're ready to go. So
I would copy that, all right a lot. You know,
(58:53):
Sean McVay, who I you know, I think is the
second best coach in football, does the exact op and
has for years, puts guys on ice and you know
that's that. So there's obviously not a perfect way to
do it. I would copy andies. With that said, everyone
(59:14):
is making this a Caleb story. Ben Johnson did not play.
They have four they left tackles not determined yet for
the Bears starting left tackle, so they played everybody who's
competing for that. There are other offensive line spots left guard, center,
right guard, right tackle. We know who the starters are.
(59:36):
Those guys played zero snaps. They're starting running back played
zero snaps. They're starting tight end played zero snaps, and
their three top receivers played zero snaps. If you are
deciding institutionally the starters aren't playing, then you obviously can't
throw Kaleb out there. Now, I canna throw Kaleb out
(59:57):
there behind your second and third string offensive line and
be like, all right, figure it out, buddy, now. Uh
Like Drake may played, he played through five passes. I
do think when you do it this way, it means
preseason game two Caleb should play a fair amount. And
(01:00:18):
do I think that they are hiding Caleb.
Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Do I think that Ben wants nothing but positive vibes
headed into the season, and after using the training camp
to kind of break guys down a bit, he wants
a little more time to build them back up before
we Before people see them. I do think that. But
(01:00:45):
do I think that there was that this decision was
based on how Caleb has played thus far this training camp.
I do not, And so I think that he had
(01:01:07):
made his decision on how he's going to play his
guys this training this preseason, and he's trying to stick
to it. Now we'll see how well that works. But
I I you know, Colin had a great take on this,
even though I disagreed with it, which is, let me
(01:01:28):
read you the exact caption of it, because I thought
it was so funny. Hold on, and then there's a
good shams little sham's note that I'm going to read
you guys in a second as well. So here's what
Colin said, uh yesterday about Caleb. Uh gosh, don it
(01:01:51):
sorry here. Oh, when tech companies delay the release, it's
usually because you're still in the beta stage. Colin's way
of saying he's not ready for the bright lights, I
think that is probably too harsh, and I think that,
But I do think that the first month of the
(01:02:13):
season could be a little rocky. I do like the
regular season. I don't think he's gonna come off, you know,
flying out of the gate. Maybe he will, but I
think that I believe in Caleb's talent, and I think
Ben Johnson's very sharp offensive mind, and I think the
Bears patched their holes on the offensive line. So I
(01:02:33):
think they'll be fine, but I uh.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Not doing their best to make it the most fine
he could possibly be.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Well, I don't know about the season. I mean again,
he obviously wants them to be as good as possible,
as early as possible. Maybe he's wrong, but he thinks
that this is the right path. We'll see. So Scham's
just tweeted. Wick Grousbeck will no longer stay on as
(01:03:04):
governor of the Celtics as part of the celtics six
point one billion dollar sale to Bill Chisholm. Playing had
been for Grousbeck to remain through twenty twenty eight. Chisholm
assumes governor title and the transfer will be finalized soon. Guys,
this is Cuban sells the team and he's like, I'm
(01:03:25):
gonna run it though, and he's out immediately. Grousbeck sells
the team and it's like, no, but I'm gonna run
it for the next couple of years, and he's out immediately.
Jeanie Buss sold the team, and everyone's like, oh, but
she's gonna stay in charge for five years, We'll see
(01:03:45):
people tend not again. I am not over under two
business psychologist, and I don't run in billionaire circles. But
in my limited experience, people don't spend ten eleven figures
(01:04:08):
on something to not be in charge of it. It's
just not People don't buy a sixty dollars video game
to not play it. They don't buy a six billion
dollar basketball team to let someone else make the decisions.
(01:04:29):
And so I was skeptical when I saw Cubans say
it years ago. I was even more skeptical when I
saw what Grusbecs say it. And I am extra skeptical
about Genie Buss running the Lakers for five years after all.
Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Of this for under two though two years.
Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Oh Demonse, wait, look at this throw it on the screen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Packers quarter Jordan Love is undergoing a procedure on a
ligament issue with his left thumb. A left thumb suffered
the injury in Green Bay's preseason opener. The team is
hoping Love can return to practice next week, and the
Packers are expecting to be ready for the regular season opener.
Left thumb is not as much of a concern, right,
(01:05:22):
A surgery on the right thumb would be highly concerning.
Here's the thing, though, As I've said before, I don't
I don't trust insider injury reports. Every every surgery's out
of schedule. Every body avoided disaster, Everyone's gonna be ready
week one. I just I have a hard time digesting it.
(01:05:46):
Anybody seen Najieris. I saw a picture of Najiras. Looks
like he can't open an eye, and so I I
just know for real that picture of Najieras was scary looking,
looked like he really hurt his eye with the fireworks,
and so I just I hope he's fine because last
(01:06:06):
year got a little derailed. Is too strong. Last year
got off to uh, he didn't have the year a
lot of people thought he was gonna have, and a
lot of people thought that was because he suffered that
injury early on. All right, Demanta, let's go to the
listener questions.
Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
T asked, where do you think Alan Lamar rank all
time right this moment? Just his quarterback talents, I'd say
both top fifteen side question, are the smelling salts going
to ruin? Your life.
Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Smelling salts are not going to ruin my life. But
you know, strong recommend if people haven't tried him yet,
especially if you're like maybe trying to kick caffeine or
something like. I haven't read into the potential downsides of
huff and pneumonia occasionally, but it sure woke me up.
Where do Lamar and Allen and ranked just as quarterback talents?
(01:07:05):
What an interesting question? Top fifteen sounds right like if
I were ranking just quarter just raw talent.
Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Ever, that's what Yeah, that's what they're saying, saying all time.
Mahomes Rogers are to me the top two.
Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Lamar's got to be like top ten at least any
same thing. But I feel like both those guys, those
are electric dudes as far as this talent like that,
maybe not one.
Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Those are, Yeah, so I think safely so raw talent
Mahomes Rogers, Farv has to be up there. Manning has
to be up there. Uh. It's a compliment to Brady
that we're not even like saying him with all of
(01:08:04):
his success, because you know, he maximized everything about his
physical ability. Marino's got to be up there. I always
have had a soft spot for Steve Young. John Elway's
up there, and now we can start talking Lamar and Josh,
(01:08:24):
you know what I mean. Like, so, yeah, the in
that bottom part of the top tens firmly in the
top fifteen. I think that's right. All right, let's go
to Ethan.
Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Ethan asked, as a poker expert who understands the principle
of the plus ev. I'm curious if you take the
same approach into sports gambling, or if you trust your
own personal bias over sharp books.
Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
I don't look at I don't look at sports betting
the way I look at poker. Just for the record,
like I don't. I don't, while I do try every
year to give out winners and and to you know,
make you guys money. I I am.
Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
A little bit more conservative with poker.
Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
No, I don't know a bit you No, I just
look at it like poker. I am trying to make
the best decision at every point. Sports I have a
very hard time betting against my takes, you know what
(01:09:34):
I mean. I won't always bet on my takes, but
like I it's why I'll I'll never even if I'm
getting points bet against the chiefs. You know, what I mean,
so like, there are just certain things that so that's
but I also I and I this is how I
would recommend it for other people look at sports betting
(01:09:55):
as a recreational endeavor, not like, hey, this is how
I'm gonna make extra money. Poker's different in that regard
for me. All Right, let's keep going.
Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
Michael asked, is Jackson better than Prime Vig?
Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yes? Love Mike, but yes, Lamar is a far already
a far better passer than Mike ever was just you
know what I mean, He just is. And I love Mike,
but that's I think Mike would tell.
Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
You that next Indy, Nick, do you think that everyone
is just so skewed by fantasy football? Josh Lamar have
been excellent fantasy quarterbacks, so people assume that they are
the best. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
I think that absolutely is something to do with it.
I absolutely think that the crazy fantasy numbers impact this.
Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
M Noah, Yeah, no, no ass When is the Future
show going to happen sooner?
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Yeah? So we have a show Thursday, then we're off
for a week, and then the our Future in our
gambling show. It will probably be a two part thing
Tuesday and Thursday. Next week to get us ready for
football season, right in line with predictions week on First
Things First, and Diego says has snakes enthusiast Kevin Wild's
(01:11:15):
weight in on Demanse's reptiles. That's a good that's a
good First Things First joke, and I appreciate it all right. Reminder,
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(01:11:36):
on YouTube. We will be back right here on Thursday.
Shout out to DraftKings, Shout out to the great people
at boost Mobile sending me the sweet sign. Shout out
to a Volume and Blue Duck in Demons, and I
will see you guys. I'm on with Colin in about
an hour. See you guys. Then we'll trade
Welcome in What Driving Nick Right? Episode three point fifty seven.
In this episode of What's Right with Nick Right is
brought to you by boost Mobile, and our friends of
Boostmobile don't screw around. They saw Dexter, my dog the
last couple podcasts, hopping up on the couch and obscuring
the boost Mobile pillow. And now we have this fancy
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electrified fence. Dexter hops up there. He's zapped. Yeah for real.
(00:26):
Like they're like, no, we made good money to be
the title sponsor of What's Right with Nick Wright. We're
not gonna have some silly Portuguese water dog obscuring our
advertisement that may or may not be true. But shout
out to boost Mobile for the sick light. Demanse, how
are you? You look great?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm good. Good to see you, Pops.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
How you doing I'm doing well. Big week coming up
for Demanse as the snake should be hatching anytime, and
his baby sister flying cross country by herself. Fine to
spend a long weekend with her brother. That should be great.
And the best part of it is what when she arrives,
(01:04):
I will be rolling dice in Monaco, and so I'll
be unavailable, so you're on your own pal, but it'll
be great. So all that's going on, and I'm fired
up today. I'm fired up today because how do I
say this respectfully? People are either dumb or lying, or
(01:28):
just think that we don't have access to their previous
takes and or just you know what I mean, maybe
maybe the most the biggest indictment, I could say, just
trolling for views or clicks or content. I don't know
what it is, but I do know that I'm just
(01:48):
letting you guys know. Right now, we have eight topics
listed for today's show. Topics two through eight are going
might be bite sized because topic one could take a while.
But before we get to that, straight to voicemail again.
Brought to you by our friends at boost Mobile Cam
little seventy yard field goal. Two takes on this demands
(02:11):
A one that is now the record. I don't care.
There's the preseason. That's the record that should be in
the record books. And two I just up to the
Jags to eleven wins. I had him at ten, I
now got him at eleven. If you get to midfield
and you're in field, goal range. I mean, what do
you what a weapon? I listen, your guy, Chet, I
(02:37):
say this with respect. It's just he's got it. He's
got to grow up, like go ahead.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It was a little outlandish. But why is every guy
that's doing something like bad or not great? Why is
it always my guy?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I feel like you, I feel it's what I feel like. Well,
here's the thing, do you or do you not? Feel like?
I have been too skeptical of Chet because I don't
like how skinny is. Were you or were you not
more pro Chet than me? So on this show between
the two of us, he's your guy. He's certainly my guy.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Anti Chet, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well I'm not anti Chet either, but I'm getting there.
And also the Wilds was a big check guy. And
then and then Wild's read an interview with Chet where
they asked him about his favorite books and his answer
was just all coffee table books with a bunch of pictures.
He was like, it was like, I've got this book
on Rolexes, which is just the pictures of Rolexes. And
(03:40):
Wilds came to the conclusion that Chet maybe has never
read a book, and so he soured on him a bit.
And now he's dressed like a seventies pimp and his
buddy's wedding not great and Ceedee lamb, this is like
funny because he's fine. Ceedee. Liam could have got legit
hurt there. Yeah, like that little that whiplash thing back
when all the way up. Yeah, that was a scary.
(04:03):
That was a scary moment.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
All right, I'm about that ref man, wait room.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I know the reps running full speed, probably running full
Steed runs into him. Yeah, and CD, you know, is
limber enough. So I thought the ref was fine. I
was worried about CD. Reminder to everyone, please like, rate, subscribe, review,
In fact, do it right now. If you're watching on YouTube,
click the like button. If you're listening to the podcast
(04:28):
and you're not subscribed, subscribe. And if you are subscribed,
it takes two seconds. Click a little five stars. You
don't have to leave a word review, just give it
five stars. That's all YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, all that, all right,
demanse It says, the first topic is asenine quarterback rankings.
Go ahead. Yeah, So a couple of.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
QB polls came out quarterback rankings, whatever you want to
call him. So Bill Simmons debuted his quarterback pyramid, and
he had Josh Allen at the top. Dan Orlowsky came
out with a bunch of traits that quarterback should have
about six, that Patrick mahomes number one, and about the
same amount of categories as Daniel Jones.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So which one? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Zero?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So which one of these is enraging you more? Which
one do you want to ask?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh, it's definitely Simmons's and we're gonna deep dive on
it because it is not lost on me that my
pal and I like Bill. Bill and I have a
good relationship. But it is not lost to me that
Bill Simmons kind of kicks off his full NFL coverage
(05:31):
with a podcast that debuts a quarterback pyramid and whose
main guest is Kevin Wilds. I'm not saying that Bill
that this was a direct shot at me, and you know,
trying to pull apart first things first, But I'm not
saying it wasn't. So I'll get to Bill in a second.
(05:53):
But on Orlofsky's thing, listen, I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna argue with Dann obviously knows the quarterback position better
than me. I what I am gonna say is this
arm strength he has Josh Allen one, Patrick two, no problem.
I actually agree with that, and I actually think you
(06:15):
could be tricky with that one. There might be you
might be able to say Herbert could be ahead of
Patrick Hell. I don't know if Joe Milton's availed eligible,
like he could be like that just the raw arm
strength Josh Allen one is totally fine, no beef whatsoever.
Then it gets dumb ball placement. Patrick Mahomes five behind
(06:43):
Joe Burrow again fine, Jaden, Lamar and Josh. You know,
I think that's a good take. I think a lot
of people watch Lamar, Josh and Jaden and they're like
they can just put it where they want better than
Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was just thinking, like, how much of Burrow's is
the fact that he has those Crazyr receivers. They're just gonna.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Well, No, I think Burrow is like dumb accurate because
he has to be because he's not very fast and
he doesn't have the strongest arm. So the way he
can be as successful as he is is like I
think Burrow would maybe win the contest of that net
drill that Caleb failed the other day if they did that,
(07:32):
but like made it harder and harder and harder. I
think Burrow might be my number one pick, but call
me crazy in that drill, I wouldn't take Lamar over Patrick. Again,
maybe I'm a hater. Next one, we get to mechanics
where he lists ten quarterbacks and Patrick's not one of them.
And let me tell you again, he has Lamar four. Yeah,
(07:56):
I watched Lamar play quarterback, and I'm like, man, if
only Patrick had as clean of mechanics as Lamar does,
I do like I feel that way. I think it's
a good take the other ones. And again again like
the if Geno, Dak and Golf have better mechanics than Patrick,
then maybe mechanics are overrated. But mechanics didn't. Again, Patrick
(08:19):
didn't make the top ten decision making with the football.
Patrick came in stifth again I and then this is
the this is the one that really I couldn't. I
couldn't get over pocket presence. Burrow won, Lamar two, Patrick three. Okay,
(08:40):
like whatever, I'm not gonna I don't even I don't
even know what we're doing here. But fine, that's Orlowsky's list.
He has a more fine tuned I for quarterback than me,
I suppose I think it is. I disagree with some
of those, but that's not my real beef. My real
(09:01):
beef is with Bill, because Bill debuts his quarterback pyramid
and has Josh Allen at the top. And the problem
with that is, and here's the problem with having as
long and as successful a career as Bill Simmons has had,
(09:26):
and a career that so many folks, myself included obviously
literally grew up reading every single one of your sports
takes because Bill's column was must read for every sports
fan of my generation for more than a decade. The
(09:51):
problem with having that level of influence and being having
that long of a career is earmuffs, kids, We remember
what you fucking wrote. And for fifteen years, Bill fought
(10:15):
tooth and nail against the idea that anyone would ever,
under any circumstances consider Peyton Manning better than Tom Brady,
even though for the entirety of those fifteen years, Peyton
(10:36):
had a strong, a far stronger case to be considered
better than Peyton Manning. I'm sorry that. Let me back
that up. Peyton had a far stronger case to be
considered better than Brady. Then Josh would have right now
(10:57):
to be considered better than Patrick. And this is where
all of these quarterback rankings are going to be self defeating.
But let me just quickly, off the top of my
damn head, give you the Peyton versus Tom first decade
(11:18):
history win again a reminder, my pal Bill built part
of his massive empire on the take that Tom Brady
is better than Peyton Manning. If we go two thousand
to two thousand and five, Peyton has peeled MVPs, but
(11:40):
Peyton is zero to two in the playoffs against Tom.
Tom has three championships, Peyton has none. Peyton has never
been to a Super Bowl. So even though Peyton Manning
statistically speaking, was the far superior quarterback with MVPs, he
had never beaten Tom in a big spot the championships
three to nothing. Then in two thousand and six, Peyton
(12:05):
not only wins another I'm sorry, he's already won two
MVPs at that point, plays Tom in the AFC Championship game.
Tom's up I think twenty one to three at halftime.
Peyton comes all the way back and wins the super Bowl,
wins it beats Tom. The playoffs are now two to one,
(12:26):
Peyton wins the Super Bowl, and Bill, I think justifiably,
is still even though in that moment all pros Peyton
has multiple tom As zero, MVPs Peyton has multiple tom
As zero, the playoff win loss record is two to one,
the rings are three to one. Bill is still strident,
(12:48):
steadfast correct. Tom's better, seemingly vindicated by the fact that
the next year Tom finally wins his first MVP, team
goes undefeated. They look like one of the greatest teams
ever until as double digit favorites they get beaten the
(13:08):
Super Bowl. In that moment, even though the rings were
three to one, the MVPs were two to one, the
all pros were two to one or three to one,
I'm not sure, and the playoff win loss record was
tow to one in Tom's direction in that moment, if
(13:31):
anyone had debuted the take, Peyton has passed Tom because
Tom didn't win the Super Bowl last year, Bill's head
would have exploded. And then, by the way, over the
next decade, Tom never beat Peyton in the playoffs again.
There was a brief time in Denver where it looked
(13:53):
like maybe Peyton had kind of overtaken the argument and
then Tom went on that unbelievable twenty fourteen through twenty
twenty run, Desmond himself as the goat. But every single
football take we have heard for twenty years from Bill
(14:17):
Simmons has valued playoff performance, doing it in the biggest spots.
And if you've got the belt, someone's got to come
take it from you. So when I saw the clip yesterday,
(14:41):
where the rationale for elevating Josh Allen, who is again
unlike Peyton Brady, where Peyton had the stats and Brady
had the wins, Maholmes has moral pros, more MVP, better
career numbers, five trips to the Super Bowl to zero,
(15:06):
three rings to zero, and is four and zero in
the playoffs against him. When I hear the argument that
Mahomes played so poorly in the Super Bowl, he falls
down a peg without the obvious follow up being why
(15:33):
wasn't Josh in the Super Bowl? Bill? Because he couldn't
beat Patrick again, and that is where and again, I
think Josh is the second best quarterback in the league.
Now that Josh has a league MVP, I'm comfortable calling
(15:55):
him a future Hall of Famer. I think Josh eventually
is going to break through. I think Josh's ability last
year to cut down on the turnovers and still carry
a team that wasn't all that talented at the skill position,
certainly on the outside, was wildly impressive. But we have
(16:19):
to stop acting like these have been unfair fights or
Josh hasn't had his chance in back to back years
in the playoffs. Once in Josh's building, once in Patrick's building,
(16:41):
Josh has gotten the ball late fourth quarter, down three
points the first time. He can only get them to
not the edge of field goal range, but not a
gimme field goal forty four yard or if I remember,
(17:03):
and that would have only gotten them the tie with
a couple minutes left, has a chance finished the game,
ball in your hands. Don't let Patrick come back and
get it. They come away with zero points. Then last year,
down three Conference championship game, plenty of time, can't get
(17:26):
to midfield, So do not do you cannot. And this
is why the quarterback ranking stuff right now can be
so frustrating for people. Has Patrick played in the regular
season his best ball the last couple of years? No,
(17:47):
but who are again? And I've said it before, I
will say it again. If you want to argue you
know what, Jalen hurts is the best quarterback in the league.
I don't think anyone actually believes that, except for maybe
Jalen's lovely mother, who dressed me down a bit the
(18:09):
night before the Super Bowl. I don't even think Jalen
believes that. But if you want to argue that, at
least there is a case you can make. But for
the other three guys, as I said a moment ago,
the argument becomes instantly self defeating. Burrows' claim to fame
(18:33):
is what he did in the first two the first
postseason and a half of his career, going into Arrowhead,
beating Patrick, getting to the Super Bowl, then getting back
to the AFC Championship Game, and then he had a
(18:53):
pretty miserable second half with a chance to go to
a second straight Super Bowl, got the ball, tie game,
go get a field goal, got negative yards, loses, and
has not been back to the postseason since. There is
no time in the history of Pro football when there
(19:15):
have been multiple first ballot Hall of famers active in
their prime where we would say a guy elevated himself
to best quarterback in the league in a two year
stretch where he plays zero playoff games, not eligible Lamar,
(19:35):
who's in the midst of arguably as good of a
two year regular season stretch as any player at his
position ever when that player to varying degrees, and this
past year was the most positive sign has come up
(20:01):
against the other two guys who he is in the
debate with for who's the best, and both games gotten
outplayed by and lost to in the postseason Patrick two
(20:25):
years ago and Josh last year. He's not gonna have it.
And across all of sports except for maybe there were
some people arguing Jerry West was better than Bill Russell.
But with respect, as great as the Mahomes Reed Chiefs are,
(20:48):
they are not the institutionally top to bottom more talented
team like the Russell Celtics. We have never made an
argument that win every single year for a half decade,
one guy beats and out plays another guy in the
(21:10):
postseason that the other guy's better. It's a again for
the entirety of Peyton versus Brady. When Peyton was a
cult that whole decade plus, they only played in the
postseason three times and it was two to one Tom,
(21:34):
and it was still framed correctly as if Tom held
over him in the postseason. Imagine if they played four
times and it was four to zero. And so again,
this is what I would ask my pal Bill. If
Tom had beaten Peyton in six and then gone on
(21:59):
to lose that Super Bowl and he was up three
to zero in the playoffs and the ring count was
three zero and the super Bowl count was four zero,
and someone made the argument that Peyton Manning was better
based on Tom playing poorly in this make believe two
(22:24):
thousand and six super Bowl, what would your reaction have been?
And the answer is, we know, so can we please
please have a level of consistency on this, that's all. Honestly,
(22:46):
that didn't go quite as long as I thought. And
again I'm not trying to act like I invented the
pyramid style ranking of quarterbacks. What I will say is,
if you're gonna really do it, each level has to
be one player bigger than the previous. You can't go one, two, three, four, five, five,
(23:09):
five fi five. That's not the idea that that's not
how a pyramid looks either at the and I mean
it's just not. I mean, I don't e that's a crayon.
That's how a crayon looks, not how a pyramid looks.
That's first of all. Second of all, my buddy Kate
w could have given you pointers on that when he
(23:31):
was on the pod with you. UFC three nineteens blawing
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Speaker 3 (24:32):
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slash audio.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Mike Sandos released his annual quarterback poll. This is voted
on by execs and gms and coaches, so this is
the real deal. Year of the survey, Heyserdrive, Mahomes and
Burrow tied at number one, with Alan Lamar and Stafford
Brownie at tier one. How did some voters not have
Alan and Lamar as Tier one?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Well, guys, so that so here is what's crazier about
that demonse and this, I don't know if you remember.
Last year in this poll coming off the league, MVP
Lamar was Tier two. Yeah, dude, it is. This is
the first time in Lamar's career he's been Tier one.
(25:49):
Last year, Lamar got twenty three Tier one votes, twenty
six Tier two votes, and one Tier three vote. At
Tier three votes, it's an outge. That's just an outrage.
This year he got forty six Tier one votes and
four Tier two votes. Josh got forty seven Tier one
(26:14):
votes and three Tier two votes.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Two.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I'm not listen, I am not going to Oh, it's
it's as close to the unanimous as you can be
without being unanimous. There's clearly Listen, what you saw is
some of these executives, and you saw it kind of
throughout the voting on this Really, when they are judging quarterbacks,
(26:46):
they are almost entirely just removing improvisation and running and
that's that they are purely asking themselves, and they even
describe it. A Tier one quarterback can carry his team
(27:06):
each week. All right, So Josh and Lamar obviously are
in that category. The team wins because of him, Josh
and Lamar a in that category. He expertly handles pure
passing situations. So I think that is where people found
a way to discount Josh and Lamar, who are obviously
(27:29):
Tier one quarterbacks. I my response to them would be
those guys, first of all, they're excellent passers as is now.
I'm not Jim Harbaugh saying Lamar is the greatest pure
passer to ever play. I think that's probably a step
too far. But they are such dynamic runners that even
(27:56):
in pure passing situations they can make the play with
their legs. So, like, I just think those are bad opinions,
you know what I mean? Like say it again, games changing, Yeah,
games changing, and their ability to they they can just
beat you in a bunch of different ways. Like it
(28:18):
is you. You can't if you wanted to argue, as
I have in the past, there is only one there's
a there's a tier above Tier one, and that's the
tier Mahomes lives in. Fine, but if we're saying there's
just Tier one and those four guys, well, you know what,
let me back it up, Patrick, Josh and Lamar have
(28:43):
to be in it. I think Burrow definitively deserves to
be in it. But if someone wanted to construct a
case which is kind of the reverse of what we're
talking about on Burrow, which is, yeah, he handles pure
passing situations, but unlike the other three guys, right, he
(29:06):
can't beat you.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, he kind of carries his divise.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I mean, he carries he carries his team while he's
on the field, like I don't. I don't is tough,
but that that's not on him. But he can't. All
the other guys can beat you with their arm and
their legs. Burrow can only beat you with his arm,
but he's so good with his arm, Like listen, he's
(29:32):
clearly Tier one. And then it gets a little tricky,
which is and so like listen, I just think those
three or four voters they didn't have Alan and Lamar's
tier one, Like, it wouldn't surprise me at all if
some of them had, Like how many Tier one votes
did Herbert get? Let me look real quick. Herbert got
thirteen Tier one votes. So I bet those three or
(29:55):
four voters that didn't vote Josh and Lamar did vote Herbert.
And that's just stupid. I mean, that's just flatly dumb.
All right, Hurts, keep going on.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
That guy. He was square in the middle and the
Tier two with twelve voters given him a Tier three vote.
So as the Hurts debate put to rest.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Well, so Hurts got three Tier one, thirty five, Tier two,
and twelve Tier three and he so in Let's just
give it some context here.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Right after we said, we said Lamar got three after
he won MVP.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, yeah, after the Super Bowl year that they lost
when he came in second MVP voting. Okay, so that
was when he came in second MVP voting to Mahomes.
That year, he got ten Tier one, thirty eight Tier two,
and two Tier three. Last year, after the Supernatural Funk
(31:01):
year and the collapse at the end of the year,
he got one Tier one, thirty three Tier two, and
sixteen Tier three. This year he got two more Tier
ones up to three, two more Tier twos, up to
(31:23):
thirty five, and down to twelve Tier threes, down from sixteen.
I think having Jalen Hurts listed as a Tier three
quarterback is stupid. I want to make that clear. I
think that now the description of Tier two. If you care,
(31:45):
a Tier two quarterback can carry his team sometimes, but
not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses,
and or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to
elevate him above tier three. He has a whole or
two in his game. I think that's a perfect description
(32:08):
of Jalen Hurts. I think the actual description of can
carry his team, but not as consistently, can handle pure
passing situations in doses, and possesses other dimensions that are
special enough to elevate him above tier three, has a
(32:29):
whole or two in his game. That to me, is
a perfect description. The hole is he has never proven
he can be a high volume passer that leads to
team and individual success. But everything else he does at
a super high level. And whatever demeriage you give him
(32:52):
on pure passing situations, the absolute cheat code of the
tush push that you know is unique to him. It
would appear when I say, cheak got that in a
complimentary way.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
What I'm saying, like that would be a cat like
that would that would elevate him.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's elevates him.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Okay, what I'm saying, I was curious if.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
You no, if you're gonna knock him for there's a
point Wilde's made yesterday, and he's right. If we're gonna
knock him for in third and nine, would you rather
have Matt Stafford then we have to give him more
for the fact that it's fourth and one. You'd rather
have him than any player in the league, right, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
But is that is that him or is that the
team combo?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean, I do think the fact that he is
so strong and so tough and has mastered it, you
know what I mean, Like I saw Tanner McKee try
to do it in the preseason. It was ugly. We've
seen other teams, you know what I mean. So I
think it's you know, I think it's not all him,
but it's part of him, part of the team. But
with all that said, I the guys above him, I
(34:13):
can like Matt Stafford's number five on this list. I
love Stafford. Now. Is if Stafford's number five with an
asterisk because we're saying if he you know, if he's healthy,
that's totally fair. And if you want to say you're
gonna knock him because you know, Jalen gets hurt and
(34:35):
just you know, plays through, it's Stafford. Now, Stafford's played
through a bunch of stuff. But we are worried at
this point with his age of him missing time, so
be it. But I would rather have a healthy Matt
Stafford than a healthy Jalen Hurts. So I think Stafford
being ahead of him is fine. Jaden is tricky because
Jaden the sample size is just such good another year, right,
(34:58):
so you know what I mean, Like Jaden is it
was the greatest rookie season ever, but the sample size
is so small, and it feels like Jalen is a
safer bet. But Jaden has you know, Jayden has a
better chance of one day being number one on this
(35:19):
list than Jalen. Right, Herbert we've talked about. I think
having Herbert above Hurtz is an outrage. I think it's
I think that is just purely based on an idea
I would not have. And then barely ahead of him
is Jared Goff. I would rather have Jalen Hurts than
Jared Goff because I think they are very similar in
(35:42):
that under the right circumstances can be very dynamic and
a huge part of winning. But I think Jalen could
thrive in more circumstances than Golf. So I think Jalen's
toughness and running would translate better to a bad team
(36:03):
than Jared. So I think Jared on a bad team
plummet wild exactly and so and so I understand the
So if I were doing it, if it were mine,
and I know, I know that this is one where
(36:23):
I've probably kind of over the last six months flip
flopped a bit because at one point I said that
you can't like it's Mahomes Alan Lamar, and then if
you're gonna say it's a big four with Burrow, it's
got to be a big five with Jalen. But even
when I was saying that, deep down, I was like,
(36:46):
but I think Stafford's better. So if I were to
just do the nick right rankings, pure just me who
I would like for this season, assuming health, Patrick, Josh Lamar,
(37:11):
Joe Stafford. I want to make sure I'm not leaving
anybody out, and then I would put in Jailing. I
would put in jail In at six, Jalen six, Jaden seven,
(37:35):
Baker eight, and then it gets and then it gets
and then after that we could have a debate about
Herbert versus golf. But that's where I would you know
what I mean, That's where I would have it, and
then after them, we have a debate about CJ versus
(37:56):
Love versus Dak and then obviously I'm gonna start elevating
my guys Caleb and Trevor, but they gotta prove the
and so that's where that's where I would rank them,
(38:17):
and I I think that is so I didn't think
any of these were crazy out of line. The all right,
let's go to Rogers.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I was about to say, do you want to
talk about Rogers going from tier one to tier three?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
So I was shot that Rogers was tier one. Oh
so he so this has been wait what okay, So
this is what's interesting. So here is Rogers over the years.
So Rogers going into his final in Green Bay unanimous
(39:03):
Tier one, obvious. I think he was the back to
back defending League MVP, unanimous Tier one. Rogers going into
his first year with the Jets thirty Tier one, twenty
tier two. That again, to me was fair. I would
(39:23):
have put in tier two because I thought his last
year in Green Bay, you saw the writing on the wall,
and you saw it in evidence by his stats. You know,
the team's success, a lot of that stuff, but he
was still just a year removed from being a two
time MVP going into last year with the Jets. This
(39:47):
was a very interesting looking back on it. Voting going
Demonse going into last year again where he was coming
off the blown Achilles, he got twenty three Tier one votes.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
It's like, all, poor guy toar his Achilles and he's
gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Right, He's gonna come back with a vengines, eighteen Tier
two votes, seven Tier three votes, and two Tier four votes.
I'd have to ask Sando, and I could probably go
back and read the article. I'm not gonna do it
right now live on the air. Was he the first
(40:30):
player ever to get multiple votes in four different tiers?
To get you know, multiple Tier one and Tier four votes?
So last year going into last year, I so he
ended up averaging out. That was interesting. Last year he
got more votes for Tier one than any other tier,
(40:52):
but he averaged out to a Tier two player quarterback.
And this year so weird.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Now the guy that gave him a tier he got
one Tier one vote this year too, by the way.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Oh I clicked the wrong thing. Okay, not so weird.
So this year he got one Tier one vote. That
guy's out of his mind. Yeah, I mean that's just idiotic.
He got sixteen Tier two votes. I can't call that idiotic,
but I disagree. Twenty seven Tier three votes, just where
I would have him, and then four Tier six or sorry,
(41:29):
six Tier four votes, which is folks that think that
he's just finished, right, but where he is as far
as in the hierarchy. So Tier three quarterbacks are in order, Kyler,
Aaron Tua, Trevor, Gino Nicks, Darnald May, Caleb, Bryce Kirk.
(41:54):
Those are the Tier three for me personally, the quarterbacks
I would rather have than Aaron, every single one of
the guys Tier one and two, so that's fourteen, and
then I would rather have this year Gino, Drake, Caleb,
(42:21):
Trevor Tua, and that's probably it, not Bo Nicks, not Kyler,
and not Darnald or Bryce or Kirk. So I would
have him closer to the middle of Tier three. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Apparently Rogers was actually number two and Tier two number
seven overall. Yeah last year, Oh okay, okay, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah last year, so he he that's what I was saying.
Last year. He last year, he got more votes, he
got more Tier one votes than any other tier but
because he also got like a four votes. He he
got you know, ding down and dropped to tier two.
(43:16):
But yeah, so I would have him close to twenty.
They have him fifteen. The Kyler one's interesting because I
think having Kyler at the almost a tier two guy
(43:36):
and ahead of all those other guys, the young players
that you know you expect to pop, ahead of Gino,
ahead of Rogers, I think it is interesting. I mean,
I just wouldn't. I just don't.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
He's like low tier three.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah to me is but maybe I'm low on him,
but I I just you give him credit because last
year he was able for the first time in four
years to play all seventeen. But I just feel like
at this point we kind of know what we're getting
(44:16):
from Kyler, and he's a player that.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Once you don't like him he's too small.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Well, there is that, but it's also true that once
you start seeing Thanksgiving decorations up at the stores, you
know he's not going to be playing well. I mean,
it's just who he's been for his career. He's good
for about the first half of the season, and that
(44:46):
to me is like, I don't know why that would change,
like the and so I think that I'm not as
high on Kyler. I respect the talent, but I care
You're right about this demonte. I care about raw talent
(45:07):
way less with very small players. I just do.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
I mean that was like the best high school football player,
like ever a football quarterback.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yea, the best? Yeah, I mean, no, he's the best.
And he was a hell of a college player as well,
and he's had moments in the pros. And maybe it
was as simple as high school and college seasons or
twelve games long. You know what, mark this down. If
we ever have another strike shortened NFL year, I might
(45:38):
bet on Kyler. They come back and they're like, oh,
it's only a ten game season plus the playoffs this year.
I might be a Kyler guy that year since but
that is, but for the time being, I would have
him low tier three.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Do you want to get to that last one or
I want to just the Oh yeah, what are some
quarterbacks you see in going up a tier this year?
And who are some quarterbacks you see going down a tier?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
All right, so let me look at the full list again.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
I've opened this thing up so many times that now
I've got I've got two tabs. I do this sometimes,
all right, So let me the so let me maximize
this so.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I can look at this better. I think that going
up a tier so gosh, this is a tough one.
I think that Caleb will be Tier two going into
(46:52):
next year. I think that Right will be off the
list because I think he'll be done. I think that
Perty will probably be Tier three. He's hanging on for
(47:14):
deer life in Tier two right now. And I don't
think the Niners are going to be excellent this year.
And I think that who do I think could jump
into Tier one? You know what I'm gonna I might
go all in on this team this year. Bake Show.
Speaker 5 (47:37):
Okay, yeah, I think the I think the the Bucks
could have a monster offensive season and that I think
potentially could elevate Baker and especially if if Stafford is dinged.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
You know, if Stafford. I think Stafford was very weird
for Stafford who had been Tier two demons for eleven
straight years and then this is the year he gets
elevated when he wasn't great last year's regular season. It
was awesome in their two platforms, but wasn't great in
last year regularly.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Jordan Love I love to tier I mean, but two
to one to two.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
To one's hard, you know what I mean, Like, that's
the I am curious, Like, let me ask you this
and the answer might be none of the above, But no,
I'm not gonna allow that. You have to say a
name of the four guys who were all either unanimous
or close to it Tier one, Patrick, Joe, Josh Lamar.
(48:45):
Who do you think is that most risk, most risk
to move down?
Speaker 2 (48:53):
I think it'd be Joe Burrow, just because if they
don't make the postseason again this year, then so what
are you, like, what are we gonna say at this point?
I mean, maybe it's the defense again that.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I agree, but I think it's for a different reason.
I think the only thing that could move Joe down
is if he gets hurt again. And I think given
their offensive line and given his history, I think he's
the most obviously, of the big four, he's the most
likely to miss. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so I
that would be my answer. All right, let's talk shudor Tador.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
He looked pretty good. I mean, he look fantastic, but
he looked pretty good for a quarterback. Went there and
did his thing. Head coach Steven Kevin Stefanski still hasn't
committed to Shador, So, uh, do you think that he
showed everything he needed to do to get the starting job?
Speaker 1 (49:42):
What do you well? He's definitely not going to be
their Week one starter. That is gonna be Joe Flacco.
I don't even think. By the way, if I were Shador,
I know he can't say this, I wouldn't even want
to be the Week one starter. Like I the the
Browns open with the Ravens and then they play I'm sorry,
(50:07):
the Brown's open with the Bengals, so I wouldn't actually
hate that because of the Bengals defense, But then they
go Ravens, Packers, Lions, Viking Steelers, Like those are not defenses.
I'm interested in playing it right off, exactly right. And
I understand that the Browns just released their latest depth
chart and Shador is still number four. They did not
(50:30):
move him up at all. I don't believe it. I
think that Shadoor has now, if we are being fair,
he has taken it is now Dylan Gabriel who is
chasing Shador in the quarterback competition instead of vice versa.
(50:54):
Like the the you know the old adage you don't
lose your job due to end is total bs happens
in sports all the time. People lose their job because
of injury and because the guy who fills in for
you shows something he didn't have the opportunity to show before,
and so FLA. If Flacco is just entrenched at one,
(51:18):
which I think he is, Kenny Pickett was two and
is two on the late step chart. He's been hurt
the last couple weeks of camp. Doesn't look like he's
gonna play at all, and there he didn't play in
their first preseason game. Doesn't look like he's going to
playing their second. Dylan Gabriel is three. Gabriel, according to
all reports on the ground, has been bad in practice
(51:42):
and was injured for the first preseason game. Shadores four.
He's practiced well and I thought made four very high
level throws in that game and really only made a
couple bad mistakes.
Speaker 5 (51:59):
And.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
So I think that is enough to where he should
have taken the lead on Gabriel, and the goal for
either of these rookies flatly needed to be beat out
the other rookie. So when at when Flacco inevitably gets benched,
(52:21):
I'm the guy they go to. Now, maybe they'll go
to pick it, but I think that would be asinine,
and so now I also think this Demanse. I think
Gabriel will and should start preseason game number two, and
then you know he can if he plays well.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
And just get both of them half.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I think that's what we'll do. I could even see
him go, Demanse, quarter quarter, quarter quarter, you know what
they're thereabouts, like, I could see Gabriel playing then should,
or then Gabriel back in then should or that way,
you know what I mean, You get more time with
starting caliber players, or you know, guys that are actually
(53:04):
gonna make the team, or they each get it. But
I now think Gabriel, I think Shador is now amongst
the rookies in pole position. And I also think that,
and this is why so I thought after the game
him saying something to Tony Grosey was totally fine. And
(53:28):
I think people don't recognize how common that is that
guys sang after games in locker rooms are in the
tunnel to reporters like, hey, what was up with that?
That has happened forever? That used to happen to me.
I remember Matt Cassel saying to a different media member,
(53:49):
we're both standing there when he realized that media member.
You know what, I think it was to Mark Carmon,
our friend whose birthday was actually yesterday. I think it
was to karm that he said to him, this is
your buddy about me. He's like, yeah, He's like, he
sure talks a lot of shit, doesn't He like did
not like some of the things I had said about him.
(54:11):
That's super common. So I have no problem at all
with Shador having that moment with Tony Grossi.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
At this time, though, what you need to be worried about.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
So here is the thing on that. I think the
smile and the laugh at the end made it okay.
And I think that like charisma and charm and a
great smile can really carry Yeah, and so like that
to me was fine. I thought the walk in was
(54:45):
a misstep. I didn't think it was a grievous error,
but I thought, I'm not asking you to be someone
you're not. But turned down the volume on literally on
the boombox, I guess and also figuratively. Now I understand
(55:06):
those were his teammates, not his entourage, but still, you're
the quarterback, the guy carrying the giant walking stick staff
in the boombox. I might have been like, can we
not do that? And if you really want to walk
in like that, maybe I'll go in, you know, a
little bit after you, because it's he is. If the
(55:28):
Browns won't elevate him on their real depth chart, then
he also wants another team to trade for, you know,
And so I just don't think that helps. But I
don't think it's a huge deal. You'd certainly rather him
(55:49):
play well and have an awkward pre and postgame, then
be perfect pre and post game and play port right,
go ahead?
Speaker 2 (55:56):
No, I mean with that take, you were saying that
maybe he should show out for the Rams or maybe
the Rams look at him, because words like a mortal
chamber are being thrown around. Ye very serious. Yeah, I
don't know. So, uh do you think that's more of
a possibility now, like it's more serious.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
I think that right now he's probably worth He was
drafted with a fifth. I think he's worth at least
a fourth, you know what I mean? And so, but
I don't I think the Browns want to keep him.
I think Stefanski might be coming around if he wasn't
already there. And I think you had to be impressed
(56:36):
by how he handled himself. And how he played Uh
this Sunday? Was it Sunday? Saturday? Friday?
Speaker 2 (56:46):
It was Friday Friday.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
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dollars a month as long as they remain active on
the boost Unlimited plan. All right, demon's eight, Let's go
to Caleb. We talked enough Chiefs earlier, so we can
move on to Caleb if we can.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Caleb Williams did not play it down in the preseason game,
and Ben Johnson is not worried about that at all.
He said and quote, there is no substitute for real
live bullets. I get that. But at the same time,
when you can accumulate seventy plus reps in a day,
that's pretty good. If live action is the best option here,
then why why.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Not plays guys? So listen, I I think, and I've
said this on TV a dozen times, so I will,
you know, repeat myself here. I think in certain sometimes
you hear like, you know, to copycat league, certain things
should be copied. The way Andy Reid handles training camp
(58:30):
and preseason should be copied. The Chiefs every year are
sharper to start the year than most of the rest
of the league. Andy runs a tough training camp, they hit,
they have long practices, and Patrick plays in the preseason
and the starters play and they're ready to go. So
I would copy that, all right a lot. You know,
(58:53):
Sean McVay, who I you know, I think is the
second best coach in football, does the exact op and
has for years, puts guys on ice and you know
that's that. So there's obviously not a perfect way to
do it. I would copy andies. With that said, everyone
(59:14):
is making this a Caleb story. Ben Johnson did not play.
They have four they left tackles not determined yet for
the Bears starting left tackle, so they played everybody who's
competing for that. There are other offensive line spots left guard, center,
right guard, right tackle. We know who the starters are.
(59:36):
Those guys played zero snaps. They're starting running back played
zero snaps. They're starting tight end played zero snaps, and
their three top receivers played zero snaps. If you are
deciding institutionally the starters aren't playing, then you obviously can't
throw Kaleb out there. Now, I canna throw Kaleb out
(59:57):
there behind your second and third string offensive line and
be like, all right, figure it out, buddy, now. Uh
Like Drake may played, he played through five passes. I
do think when you do it this way, it means
preseason game two Caleb should play a fair amount. And
(01:00:18):
do I think that they are hiding Caleb.
Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Do I think that Ben wants nothing but positive vibes
headed into the season, and after using the training camp
to kind of break guys down a bit, he wants
a little more time to build them back up before
we Before people see them. I do think that. But
(01:00:45):
do I think that there was that this decision was
based on how Caleb has played thus far this training camp.
I do not, And so I think that he had
(01:01:07):
made his decision on how he's going to play his
guys this training this preseason, and he's trying to stick
to it. Now we'll see how well that works. But
I I you know, Colin had a great take on this,
even though I disagreed with it, which is, let me
(01:01:28):
read you the exact caption of it, because I thought
it was so funny. Hold on, and then there's a
good shams little sham's note that I'm going to read
you guys in a second as well. So here's what
Colin said, uh yesterday about Caleb. Uh gosh, don it
(01:01:51):
sorry here. Oh, when tech companies delay the release, it's
usually because you're still in the beta stage. Colin's way
of saying he's not ready for the bright lights, I
think that is probably too harsh, and I think that,
But I do think that the first month of the
(01:02:13):
season could be a little rocky. I do like the
regular season. I don't think he's gonna come off, you know,
flying out of the gate. Maybe he will, but I
think that I believe in Caleb's talent, and I think
Ben Johnson's very sharp offensive mind, and I think the
Bears patched their holes on the offensive line. So I
(01:02:33):
think they'll be fine, but I uh.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Not doing their best to make it the most fine
he could possibly be.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Well, I don't know about the season. I mean again,
he obviously wants them to be as good as possible,
as early as possible. Maybe he's wrong, but he thinks
that this is the right path. We'll see. So Scham's
just tweeted. Wick Grousbeck will no longer stay on as
(01:03:04):
governor of the Celtics as part of the celtics six
point one billion dollar sale to Bill Chisholm. Playing had
been for Grousbeck to remain through twenty twenty eight. Chisholm
assumes governor title and the transfer will be finalized soon. Guys,
this is Cuban sells the team and he's like, I'm
(01:03:25):
gonna run it though, and he's out immediately. Grousbeck sells
the team and it's like, no, but I'm gonna run
it for the next couple of years, and he's out immediately.
Jeanie Buss sold the team, and everyone's like, oh, but
she's gonna stay in charge for five years, We'll see
(01:03:45):
people tend not again. I am not over under two
business psychologist, and I don't run in billionaire circles. But
in my limited experience, people don't spend ten eleven figures
(01:04:08):
on something to not be in charge of it. It's
just not People don't buy a sixty dollars video game
to not play it. They don't buy a six billion
dollar basketball team to let someone else make the decisions.
(01:04:29):
And so I was skeptical when I saw Cubans say
it years ago. I was even more skeptical when I
saw what Grusbecs say it. And I am extra skeptical
about Genie Buss running the Lakers for five years after all.
Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Of this for under two though two years.
Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Oh Demonse, wait, look at this throw it on the screen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Packers quarter Jordan Love is undergoing a procedure on a
ligament issue with his left thumb. A left thumb suffered
the injury in Green Bay's preseason opener. The team is
hoping Love can return to practice next week, and the
Packers are expecting to be ready for the regular season opener.
Left thumb is not as much of a concern, right,
(01:05:22):
A surgery on the right thumb would be highly concerning.
Here's the thing, though, As I've said before, I don't
I don't trust insider injury reports. Every every surgery's out
of schedule. Every body avoided disaster, Everyone's gonna be ready
week one. I just I have a hard time digesting it.
(01:05:46):
Anybody seen Najieris. I saw a picture of Najiras. Looks
like he can't open an eye, and so I I
just know for real that picture of Najieras was scary looking,
looked like he really hurt his eye with the fireworks,
and so I just I hope he's fine because last
(01:06:06):
year got a little derailed. Is too strong. Last year
got off to uh, he didn't have the year a
lot of people thought he was gonna have, and a
lot of people thought that was because he suffered that
injury early on. All right, Demanta, let's go to the
listener questions.
Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
T asked, where do you think Alan Lamar rank all
time right this moment? Just his quarterback talents, I'd say
both top fifteen side question, are the smelling salts going
to ruin? Your life.
Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Smelling salts are not going to ruin my life. But
you know, strong recommend if people haven't tried him yet,
especially if you're like maybe trying to kick caffeine or
something like. I haven't read into the potential downsides of
huff and pneumonia occasionally, but it sure woke me up.
Where do Lamar and Allen and ranked just as quarterback talents?
(01:07:05):
What an interesting question? Top fifteen sounds right like if
I were ranking just quarter just raw talent.
Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Ever, that's what Yeah, that's what they're saying, saying all time.
Mahomes Rogers are to me the top two.
Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Lamar's got to be like top ten at least any
same thing. But I feel like both those guys, those
are electric dudes as far as this talent like that,
maybe not one.
Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Those are, Yeah, so I think safely so raw talent
Mahomes Rogers, Farv has to be up there. Manning has
to be up there. Uh. It's a compliment to Brady
that we're not even like saying him with all of
(01:08:04):
his success, because you know, he maximized everything about his
physical ability. Marino's got to be up there. I always
have had a soft spot for Steve Young. John Elway's
up there, and now we can start talking Lamar and Josh,
(01:08:24):
you know what I mean. Like, so, yeah, the in
that bottom part of the top tens firmly in the
top fifteen. I think that's right. All right, let's go
to Ethan.
Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Ethan asked, as a poker expert who understands the principle
of the plus ev. I'm curious if you take the
same approach into sports gambling, or if you trust your
own personal bias over sharp books.
Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
I don't look at I don't look at sports betting
the way I look at poker. Just for the record,
like I don't. I don't, while I do try every
year to give out winners and and to you know,
make you guys money. I I am.
Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
A little bit more conservative with poker.
Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
No, I don't know a bit you No, I just
look at it like poker. I am trying to make
the best decision at every point. Sports I have a
very hard time betting against my takes, you know what
(01:09:34):
I mean. I won't always bet on my takes, but
like I it's why I'll I'll never even if I'm
getting points bet against the chiefs. You know, what I mean,
so like, there are just certain things that so that's
but I also I and I this is how I
would recommend it for other people look at sports betting
(01:09:55):
as a recreational endeavor, not like, hey, this is how
I'm gonna make extra money. Poker's different in that regard
for me. All Right, let's keep going.
Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
Michael asked, is Jackson better than Prime Vig?
Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yes? Love Mike, but yes, Lamar is a far already
a far better passer than Mike ever was just you
know what I mean, He just is. And I love Mike,
but that's I think Mike would tell.
Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
You that next Indy, Nick, do you think that everyone
is just so skewed by fantasy football? Josh Lamar have
been excellent fantasy quarterbacks, so people assume that they are
the best. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
I think that absolutely is something to do with it.
I absolutely think that the crazy fantasy numbers impact this.
Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
M Noah, Yeah, no, no ass When is the Future
show going to happen sooner?
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Yeah? So we have a show Thursday, then we're off
for a week, and then the our Future in our
gambling show. It will probably be a two part thing
Tuesday and Thursday. Next week to get us ready for
football season, right in line with predictions week on First
Things First, and Diego says has snakes enthusiast Kevin Wild's
(01:11:15):
weight in on Demanse's reptiles. That's a good that's a
good First Things First joke, and I appreciate it all right. Reminder,
everyone like rate, subscribe, review, leave five stars, leave a
review if you'd like. I don't really care if you
leave a review. I'd love you to give us the
five stars though. Subscribe on Spotify or iTunes or both
if you'd like, but one's just fine, and definitely subscribe
(01:11:36):
on YouTube. We will be back right here on Thursday.
Shout out to DraftKings, Shout out to the great people
at boost Mobile sending me the sweet sign. Shout out
to a Volume and Blue Duck in Demons, and I
will see you guys. I'm on with Colin in about
an hour. See you guys. Then we'll trade
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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