April 15, 2022 • 38 mins
Chris and Rob explain why James Harden is going to be under a ton of pressure heading into the NBA Playoffs given his lengthy history of postseason failures, and discuss what Jackie Robinson Day means to them and share a few of their favorite Robinson stories. Plus, former AL Manager of the Year Jerry Manuel swings by to discuss the Tom Seaver statue snafu, what Robinson meant to baseball and sports in general, the overreliance on analytics in today's game, and much more!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of the Odd
Couple with Chris Brush and Rod Harker. Philadelphia and Toronto.
Now Philadelphia the fourth seed two superstars rot one of
the few. I mean, there's only a few teams now
(00:42):
with two bona fide superstars right right nets It's not
the Sixers, right the Lakers, but they were hurting. They're eliminated.
It's just I mean, Dallas is one. Denver right now
is one. The Clippers guys are hurt. Um Phoenix hass
but Chris Paul's older, and Adan's not quite a star,
(01:03):
certainly not a superstar. Um. They got Devin Booker, you know,
and Chris Paul stature wise, but but bottom line is
not a lot of teams have that. And in b
is in the MVP race and Harden is a legend.
Rob Toronto's beat them three out of four times, including
(01:23):
twice with James Harden, you know, in the last couple
of months since he's been there. Um, Harden said he
isn't feeling any pressure whatsoever. And look, maybe he's not.
Saw Brian Windhorse talking about he believes Harden because Harden
(01:44):
has gotten away with everything he's done. You know, he
want he quit on the rockets and what do they do?
They trading where he wants to go Brooklyn, Right, he
gets traded to where he wants to go. If even
if he plays well, he's likely to get this contract
extension worth two hundred plus million. Um. But I feel
like Rob James Harden, I think he is feeling the
(02:10):
pressure because, um, he clearly has felt the pressure. We've
seen him too often have bad games in huge moments.
And I don't mean just you're off, you're missing shots
that can happen to anybody, but I mean you're not
taking shots. You're two for ten and you're the man
(02:34):
you average thirty four US and you're only taking ten shots. Right.
That ain't getting it done. That ain't get it done.
That's melting. Okay, that's not I'm going that's not John Starks,
Rob John Starks. Everybody knows two for eighteen in the
finals against Houston. In one game he didn't melt Rob.
He would just make shots. Didn't make shots that night.
(02:55):
And if you remember that series, Chris, he balled out
in game six, which forced the game seven, right, Like
he balled out in game six, right, And that's why
you know he and I can live with that. What
what's tougher to live with as a guy losing his confidence,
freezing up and just the moment being too big. And
(03:18):
we've seen that with Harden, whether it's not shooting a lot,
giving up the ball too quickly, or turning it over
a disastrous amount of times. So um, I do think
he feels the pressure, Rob because if they could go
out in the first round, they really could. I don't
(03:38):
think people and I get a lot of people, probably
most are picking Philly, and I don't blame him. I mean,
I think I'm I'm leaning that way with a lot
of hesitation, But I wouldn't be surprised if they get
beat by Toronto because James Harden, Rob you think he
was mediocre by his standards, By his standards, you think
(04:01):
he didn't play well in Brooklyn, rob in April. Here
were his numbers, sixteen points, thirty six percent, shooting twenty
seven percent from three. So there is pressure. And you
know what, the Philly fans are like, Rob, they don't play.
If James Harden doesn't deliver, he is going to feel
(04:23):
the full force of the Sixers fans heat. And I mean,
we'll see, Like I said, if Philly's kind of in
a tough spot because they gave up Ben Simmons for him,
so they almost got to keep him. Daryl Morey loves him,
but it could end up. You know, it'll be interesting
if he struggles and they go out early what that
(04:45):
means for this contract extension that he wants to sign.
So I think James Harden robbed. I think it's one
of the most intriguing storylines in the playoffs, and certainly
in this first round. I don't doubt it at all.
I think you're spot on, and he can pooh pooh it,
Chris all he wants. He has nothing to prove and
all that. Duh, that's not true. It's just not true.
(05:09):
Because if this ship goes down in the first round
and they get knocked out and Toronto's capable, Chris, I'm
still gonna pick Philadelphia, but Toronto's capable. That's all I'm
gonna say. I'm picking Philly. But if this goes south
and it's ugly, then people will come down and the
people in Philadelphia will wonder, did we make a mistake?
(05:31):
As much as we hated Simmons, did we make a mistake? Right?
Because you might have been able to get a Lillard,
a Beal you know somebody else, right, No, definitely, And
you're starting to look at it and say this is bad.
And if he's going the other way in the nightlife
and all the other stuff, Chris is starting to it
(05:53):
takes effect at some point, right right, you're young. You
get away with it. You get away with it. You
could do god knows. When I was a young sportswriter
traveling in the country, Chris, I was. I was and destructible.
I could do anything. And now, man, I'm falling asleep
(06:14):
with the TV on and cookies on my chest. Do
you know what I'm saying? Because I can't stay up.
That's a bad that's a bad picture right now, cookies
on my chest and falling asleep looking for my glasses
in there on the top of my head. You know,
what I'm saying, like it's a bad life when you
get older. Trust I hear you. But you're right, Rob.
(06:36):
And here's the thing. James Harden will be thirty three
in August, and he has played fifteen years. I believe
he's in his He's in his uh thirteenth year, so
next year will be his fourteenth year. That's a full career.
So if he does start, then comman he as decline
(07:00):
this year. I think a lot of people are wondering,
is this the beginning of the end for James Harden
or is this just a bad year? Well, you said
it earlier this year, Chris. I mean you called it
out that that you weren't happy even though he had
numbers a lot of people would love to have and
he's gonna make it, you know, he's an all star
or whatever. You said the numbers, like you just didn't
(07:22):
like the the what you were seeing from him right
right that it didn't look right to you. And and
I remember you were almost had a glue. You were
you second guess yourself for five minutes after the nets
no no, no no about Philly because you you didn't think
it was gonna work, and you questioned it and then
(07:44):
they had five unbelievable games and you you had an
ounce it out. Maybe I was wrong, I was thinking
right because because it looked like okay, maybe I was right.
Now he's back right right now, He's back to what
you saw earlier, is what I'm saying. And we were
all fooled for for five minutes. If you remember what
(08:04):
was what was the big story somebody wrote or something
about the two of them and the best duo and
the I can't remember after five somebody I think compared
them to Shock and Coke Kobe, right, I don't remember
who it was. Yeah, it was something like that after
those five games, right right right and not no, not anymore?
And Rob, what did it? Was the Brooklyn game? Yep.
(08:29):
And that's when Kyrie went there And that's right on them,
right and Rob, that's what And I've been a heart
like I voted for him in twenty fifteen. You're not
an MVP, right right, Like I thought he should have
won it the year Steph won his first one, I
called him the one of the elite, one of the
few players who's ever been all time elite at scoring
(08:52):
and playmaking like he's he's awesome. But Rob, if they
go out again and he plays poorly and they go
out prematurely, the only conclusion to come to is that
he's just one of those guys that just wants to
go hoop, have fun, make his money, kick it, live
the life. But Rob, you know this, to win in
(09:16):
the NBA, a grueling seven game series, four times four
grueling seven game series, it is hard. Rob. I've had
whether it was while I played in high school or
college or even just some rec leagues I've been in
(09:37):
and stuff. I've been in grueling games and I've thought,
my goodness to play it, like if to play that
game seven times in a rock right, I mean, I
don't think we understand how tough that is. It's not
(09:58):
just seven games in two weeks. It's seven games against
the same team and you know each other's tend It's
like it is gruelly not just physically, but mentally and emotionally.
And Rob, I would have to conclude Harden doesn't want
to go there. He doesn't want to go to that level.
He doesn't want to push to that you know, when
(10:20):
it's hard, when it's difficult, when you don't feel like
going there. He just wants to go have fun, play ball,
shoot the Jay, make some nice passes. He don't want
to get get in that like that slug fest, you
know what I mean, that's what it's. That's what it
looks like right now for him. Well that's what we
(10:42):
saw when Kyrie said, Okay, I'm gonna you know, I'm
not gonna play all I remade it a slug fan, right,
he said, I'm gonna play on you and make you
earn all this, and it looked like he didn't want
any part of it. So if I'm a Phillip fan,
this is very big. It's not gonna stop him from
getting Chris the extension, no matter why. We won't. And
(11:04):
that because the barrel though, right, they gave up a lot.
They can't tell a guy to bounce. They just can't
because if he's bouncing, del More got to bounce to Seriously, yeah,
they would. I mean, look, would it be tempting to say, Okay,
can Tyrese Maxie be our second star to NBA? Can
(11:24):
we know Tobias can be a third guy? And and
maybe can we trade Harden for you know some good
I mean, that would be too. I would have to
explore that. Rob if they fizzle. Um, I would explore it,
but you are right. It's a tough situation for them,
and I do think most likely, no matter what happens,
he's gonna get that extension. And people are saying, well,
(11:46):
it doesn't have to be a max. I don't know.
I think it might have to just because you know,
would somebody else give it to him? All his issues,
all his flaws? Would somebody else give it to him.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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(12:07):
to listen live. I'm George Reister, host of the Reister
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(12:30):
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Guest is a former Al American League Manager of the Year.
Also played in the Big leagues. We are proud to
(12:51):
welcome in Jerry Manuel, Jerry, How are you, Jerry, what's happening.
I'm good, I'm good. How you guys doing, We are doing,
You're great. We were just talking and you know, a
team you managed, the Mets. They unveiled the Tom Severer
statue today, which is beautiful outside the city field. Yeah,
(13:13):
but we just felt like it was unfortunate, and not
that they did it on purpose. They didn't mean to,
but we just thought they should have waited maybe till tomorrow,
because the day was Jackie Robinson Day, and we just
felt like you couldn't really give the attention that is
deserved to either guy boy Severer or Robinson when you
(13:34):
do both of them on the same day. Where are
you at on that? Oh? I agree, I agree wholeheartedly.
I think, uh, today is a day that kind of
brought the nation together, and Jackie Robinson is a is
iconic in that sense, and you know, so it's Tom Sieber. Uh.
(13:56):
You know, it's for for for as the Mets fan.
So I thought I think they probably reserved uh each
to have their own day rather than to share it
uh on on one day. Uh. Yeah, I agree with
that and Jerry, uh speaking of Jackie Robinson the seventy
(14:17):
fifth anniversary and you mentioned it. I mean, it wasn't
just breaking the color Barrea, but you you he changed
this country when he played and stepped on that field
and and and played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Can you
just talk about that and what it means to you
and for people who who don't understand the significance of
(14:39):
it and where we are today. Uh, yeah, it's a
it's a it's a it's a very very very huge day. Um,
you know, in in in our culture, um and in
the black culture back in the day, some old man now,
but please, Jerry, when you're that means I'm old too, man,
(15:01):
slow down. Back in the day that that was, that
was a pillar of our culture. So when you were
able to uh be validated by the highest level what
was considered the highest level of baseball and to break
the color barrier when there was a polarized country, so
(15:25):
to speaking into endure the things that he did, um,
you know was uh was was huge, was huge for
for America, but especially for Black America. It was always
a thing of trying to belong but knowing that we
(15:46):
could belong in a sport that was a pillar in
our culture. Like every Sunday afternoon back in the day,
there was there was chickens fried chickens in a baseball game,
you know. And so when and when when when a
guy goes and and and plays and and and it
(16:08):
breaks that breaks that barrier, so to speaks and to
take on what he took on for us, for me
and other um black professionals to play in in that game,
to play in the game of baseball, which which like
I said, was a pillar is uh was huge. You know,
(16:29):
it was really huge for us to to have him
make that make that statement. I mean, you you can
think I can't even think of and I'm not a historian,
but I can't even think of who's the first black
basketball player, or who's the first black hockey player, or
who's the first black football player, But everybody knows the
(16:51):
first black baseball player. You know. That's how that's how
huge it was for our coaches. That's what we did.
It's played baseball, no no doubt. Hey, hey, Jerry, I
do want to get in There's something that was bothering me.
The other day. Chris and I talked about it. As well,
and it had to do with Clayton Kershaw. He's pitching
(17:12):
a perfect game. Has only been twenty five in a
history of the game. I think it's a twenty three.
Twenty three eight pitches have done it, and he has
a perfect game going, and he's only thrown eighty pitches
and he's pulled out. Dave Roberts makes a decision. We
get it. He was hurt last year, first started a year.
(17:34):
Have we lost sight of like like special moments and
giving a guy a chance. I'm not saying let him
throw one hundred and thirty pitches to try to accomplish it,
but eighty seemed Jerry to be the right number and
to at least let him start the eighth inning. Am
I crazy? Well, you're talking to a former manager and
(17:55):
you gotta go. I'm asking you, well, you gotta go.
You got to go back to spring training and you
got to see what number that that that he maxed
out normally normally back. Uh, I can shape back when
I'm managed. But we tried to prepare the starter to
be able to at least score one hundred pitches the
(18:17):
first first time out, right, first time out? Yeah, Well,
seventy five and spring training. Yeah, yeah, well so so
then if you maxed out a seventy five and spring training,
then they're there. They're they're probably right about eighty with
the anxiety and all that goes would open the day
(18:39):
and first time out, that would probably be the be
the magic number. But if you're the maxed out, let's
say in spring training at about ninety, and you got
a perfect game going, then you gotta wait. You gotta
wait till he you know, two two, till you notice laboring. Yeah,
if he walked somebody or you know what, I mean,
(19:01):
to take them right out? Am I right? If he
walks up body, you would say, okay, you're dumb. Yeah,
but but but I don't know what their spring training
is is like or or I don't know his history
as well. Uh as as as as as they would
know they would have all that information and they're trying
(19:22):
to to to keep them healthy. That those are important,
Those are Those are very very very difficult decisions because
you're getting you might see something historical right that you've
never seen before, and sometimes you don't want to deprive
anybody of making history or the game. Jerry, you know
(19:44):
what fans the fans were bummed out. You know that
there was a chance. I mean, you've been in the
game a million years. I've been coming to a league
baseball fort But Jerry, how many how many perfect games
have you seen? I've been covering at baseball for thirty
six years, and I saw David Walls in nineteen ninety
(20:04):
eight pitch a perfect game at Yankee Stadium against the Twins.
I've only seen one. It doesn't happen every day. Yeah,
Dennis Martinez and down here in LA through a perfect
game against the Dodgers. And I was a coach. I
was a third base coach for the Montreal Exposed at
that time, and that was he threw a perfect game.
But again, that was the middle of the summer. I
(20:25):
think we was even coming back from I could be wrong,
but I think that Rodney Keene, so I could be wrong.
I think it was run around that time period, but
we were in the middle of the season, the beginning
of the seasons. I think if you are to have
some length in your rotation, and you got a good rotation,
(20:49):
you have to be somewhere careful. And again I have
to preface it with what what did seventy five pitchers
look like in spring training, did the last five the
laboring or he laboring? Uh you know that, you know,
did he get to seventy five or what have you.
If he got to seventy five, then you add ten
or fifteen more the next start, and then you think
(21:11):
that he's ready to UM pitch beyond the limit that
that they had for him, or was he cruising? I didn't.
I did not see the game he had. He had
thirteen strikeouts on eighty pitches and was unhittable. I mean, yeah,
I would have let him go for he was unhitable.
I would have allowed him to start the eighth inning.
(21:33):
First sign of trouble, a walk or something, you're out. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
I can agree with that. But but again I can't. Right,
it's it's uh, it's it's an organizational you know, somewhat
of an organizational policy. Some organizations, uh, at one time
wouldn't let you go beyond a hundred pitches, regardless of
(21:54):
what you were doing, because of the longevity of the
season when you when you were when you were managing UM.
Because we Robin, I wonder if the front office actually
called Dave Roberts and told him, look, get him out
of there no matter what. Yeah, when you were managing,
I imagine analytics was just kind of beginning to take hold. Um,
(22:20):
what did you think, I mean the game has changed
when you watched the game today, do you see, like, man,
it's just analytics dominant. We only have about a minute,
but analytics have really taken over from even when you managed. Yeah,
I think I think to some to a degree, it has.
But I think analytics is important. I think it only
(22:40):
to me. I had analytics next to me on the bench,
you know, as a young manager, but I only use
that for confirmation of what my instincts. I wouldn't. I couldn't,
I couldn't anybody if if if it's all analytics, then
anybody could manage. Right. We agree with you, but we
feel like it is going in that direction. It seems, yeah,
(23:03):
like you're trying to make the instinct second right, right,
And that's that's that's I think that's dangerous and that's
that's that's what makes the game slow, That what makes
the game somewhat boring, some of a softball type looking
game versus versus the type of game that we grew
up with with with speed, athleticism and all those types
(23:25):
of things we're missing because we're looking for a lunch
angle to the home run. So it's either home run
or strike. A good game a game, you know, we
like to two to one pitching dual. God might throw
one hundred and thirty or something pitches, but they're battling,
they fight, trapping it. You gotta hold a base running,
you gotta you gotta intentional walk. But sometimes the intentional
(23:47):
walk is uh, there's a play for that. But I mean,
I remember the time we did. We would call for
intentional walk on a three two count, but then he
said how to catch it, come back and sit down
and then throw a breaking ball right for us, right brow.
The strategy is what I loved about the game. But
analytics to me was just confirmation of what my gut
(24:08):
was chelling me during the course of the game. Yeah, well, Jerry,
thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. Great, appreciate you, Jerry. Yeah,
same here, guys, appreciate you. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob
Parker weekdays at seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific on
(24:28):
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Let's start with
is Jackie Robinson Day all around Major League base by
everybody wearing number forty two Beyond Jackie Robinson Day, it's
the seventy fifth anniversary of when he broke into the
big leagues, which obviously is huge. And today though in
(24:51):
New York, they also unveiled the time sever statue in
front of the the City Field. The statue is phenomenal, beautiful,
one of the one of the better ones I've seen.
Rob I really know, and they really captured. That's Tom
Severs motion. You know. Chris and I grew up, you know,
in Queens and I used to take the number seven train,
(25:13):
the E train to the number seven train to to
to the old Shakee Stadium, Me and my buddies, all
my friends we grew up with in the neighborhood. My
team was called the black Cats, Chris. For five dollars
in those days, we go see what because they were
called the black Cat? Why they was that your team?
That was your little league name? That was our neighborhood team,
(25:35):
the black Cats. Y'all made that name up? Yes, did
you play a little league? Yeah? Okay, yeah, that was
that was the team before a little league started back
the team in your little neighborhood, and in the neighborhood
back then. Yeah, do you know that you used to
have teams like that. Um. But but in those days,
we used to go watch Tom sever pitch. When he pitched,
Mets had a chance to win. So it was a
(25:57):
big deal when he was prayed exactly back in the seventies,
it was. It was tough. And so I love the statue.
I love everything about it. He should be honored. He's
one of the greatest, the greatest Met and he's a
Hall of Famer. I can't say anything negative about Tom
(26:18):
Siever because he was that great. But today the Mets
made a mistake. Today was not Tom Siever's day, Chris.
It was Jackie Robinson day. And Bud Selick a number
of years ago decided to do this when they retired.
Every you know, every number forty two on every team.
Everybody today is wearing the forty two, even in the
(26:39):
Dodgers colors, Chryst. No matter what color your uniform is.
I mean, it's a special, special day. It's not just
about baseball. And for you long, younger listeners, you need
to just take a couple of minutes and really google
and watch something and find out about Jackie Robinson and
what he meant and where this country was in nineteen
(27:02):
forty seven. Chris, it's twenty years before the Civil Rights movement,
and you know how bad it was to be a
black man in this country in nineteen forty seven. One
problem I always say, I mean, obviously you can't overstate
what doctor Martin, Luther King and all the civil rights
titans did, but you gotta give props to Jackie Robinson
(27:26):
and other black athletes of that era because what they
did to uh, you know, move African Americans into the mainstream,
that can't be overstated. Either, like without Jackie red that
that was a major part of race relations says or
buts about it like you people might say, oh, it
(27:48):
was just a game, it's just a sport. Some of
the people right now, that was humongous. It can't be overstated.
And the one thing is which I loved in the
movie forty two. And if you want to know, if
you haven't seen the whole story or you don't know
Jackie Robinson's story, Chris, that's a good movie to watch
forty Oh yeah, it really is. Entertaining, informative and right both.
(28:11):
And the thing I loved the most was they didn't
try to make branch Ricky out to be a saint,
that he was going to change the world. Chris, he
saw all these black people walking around Brooklyn and none
were at his ball game, right, none, right, seriously, and
He's like, these people walking by, they got money, what
what are we doing? And he wanted to sell tickets
(28:37):
and they went and they got and there were teams
that wanted to pull out of the league, didn't want
to play against Brooklyn the whole nine yards, and Jackie
had to turn the other cheek and deal with a lot.
There's no doubt he had a premature death, Chris, from
the stress. And when he died roughly. I gotta look
(28:59):
at it again, exact number. Yeah, but but he did
got you you felt he died prematurely. It's easy to
look it up. I'll look it up now. But um,
his widow is still alive and she is amazing. She's
gonna she's gonna turn a hundred years old. Chris. Oh, yeah,
he was fifty three. Rob, Yeah, he was young. I
didn't remember he was that young. He was young. She's
(29:21):
a husband. She's gonna be a hundred Chris, Wow. Wow.
I'm almost positive because he was born in nineteen nineteen.
Look at her. I think Rachel Robinson is gonna be
a hundred this year, which is um And she's she's
great looking. Wow, she looks wonderful. She does that that wow?
(29:44):
Am I right? Yeah? Because I've seen her within the
last few years, you know, at a game or some
ceremony and uh, Chris, July nineteen, nineteen twenty two. She's
gonna be a hundred on July nineteenth. That's incredible. And
she's she's lived fifty years essentially without Jackie. Wow. Wow. Yeah,
(30:06):
And that's that's him. That's powerful rob because I had
forgotten he died that young. But the stress on him
and for him he had to be I even hate
that he had to go through this because he should
be able to He should have been able to just
show the full range of human emotion, right right. If
(30:29):
he's angry, he can be angry, but if he might
that somebody called him this or that, he could show
like that's what human beings are, regardless of your race,
should be able to do, not that you're just running
off going crazy, but you know, like you're human, and
he couldn't be that while he was playing baseball. He
had to always be at his A plus game, right,
(30:55):
I don't mean playing although he had to perform as well.
But think rob We talk about the pressures on athletes
today and there are pressures on it, but he not old.
He had to go out there and play great baseball
because he was representing a whole segment of the country,
a whole race of people, and everybody was looking at
(31:17):
him as the example and the end off for what
blacks can and can't do. That's exactly what was on
his plate. And black people flocked to the ballpark, Chris,
when Jackie Robinson came to town, it became, you know,
a part of black culture. And some of the owners
(31:38):
I remember reading the Tigers had a racist owner, Chris,
who would quadruple the price of the tickets to try
to stop black people from coming in. When like Larry Doby,
who was a black player for the Cleveland Indians, you know,
and was the second black player in the major leagues,
Like when black players came to Detroit, he would like, like,
(32:02):
instead of it being fifty cents, it's two fifty to
get in like stuff like that. Well, well, rob, this
has often talked about. You know this, our good friend
Bill Rowden wrote from the new former league of the
New York Times. Uh, he was a colleague of mine
there when I worked there. He wrote the book forty
(32:22):
Million Dollars Slaves, and in his book he kind of
lamented you know, you had the Negro leagues back, right, um,
and some great I mean, obviously you look at the
contributions of African Americans to the game of baseball. You
know it was great, you know because all the great
black players would have been in the Negro leagues at
that time. So you know, then the Major league didn't
(32:47):
look what he did. And you know, Rob that the
story is that Jackie Robinson was not the best player
in the Negro League, but he was the one that
they felt had the personality and the demeanor and the
credentials because of education and everything. Right, would he would
even put it this way to be acceptable white America.
(33:07):
I hate to even put it that way, but that's
that's the truth. He wasn't the best player, right right,
and he wouldn't let it up in Major League baseball.
But rob people look at it and I know it's
hindsight now, but you had obviously blacks in high places
(33:27):
in the Negro League. Sure, they were general managers, manager
own teams. Yeah, they're doing all that. Do you think
And again, it's easy to say in hindsight, but some
people say it would have been better had they been
able to negotiate instead of just letting Jackie you know here, okay,
Jackie Robinson's going in and suddenly soon most other players
(33:50):
were going in and the Negro leagues obviously disbanded. Right,
could they have negotiated, like, you know, okay, a merger
even though obviously they didn't have the stature in the
cloud that the major leagues had. But could they have
done something like that? And we're just fantasized right now,
(34:11):
But don't you know where you would have had more
blacks in higher places? I don't think so in nineteen
forty seven, Chris, because of what we were just talking
about civil rights and how black people you're talking about
separate water fountains. They aren't going to come to the
table and sit with black people and say, oh, yeah,
you know, we'll pay you for a Jackie and we'll
(34:31):
put a Nego League team and then American like like no, Like,
I'm with you. It would have been a great thing.
But I don't think at that time it was. It
would have been difficult. It might have been. I mean, yeah,
it would have been your right have been like yeah,
I mean almost a completely black team in the Major
(34:53):
League Baseball would have been you know, it would have
cost craziness. But money talks, you know, and they, like
you said, branch Rickey wanted that black money. He did,
he was And again I totally get it. It is
easy to say in hindsight. So I'm not saying they
should have done it. You know, they should have done it,
(35:14):
but it's easy to say right now. But it's just
it's just, you know, when you think about the things
we talk about, not only in baseball but all the sports,
lack of black managers, lack of black coaches, lack owners
obviously no owners are very few owners. Yeah, I mean
that's where it would have been nice had it been
(35:37):
able to be more of a partnership. Now we would
have had to stand up and demand it because they
weren't gonna give it to us for sure. Um, but
you know, it's just something to think about. Uh, when
when you look at situations like this, right. I got
a quick story too, my dad. I don't know if
I ever shared this with you. My dad actually studied
to be a priest, a cat, a cat like priests really,
(36:01):
so for two years in high school, two of his
years he went to seminary Catholic Seminary priests and he
was you know, he was there for two years. He's popular.
I've looked at all his photos. He was an athlete,
you know, had a lot of friends and all that,
and one of just a handful out of like one
hundred and fifty guys, only a couple African Americans couldn't
(36:24):
have been that. Yeah, he might have been one of
two Christians, right, oh yeah right? Or maybe that maybe
the only one for all I know. But he's so,
he's a junior, so he's spend a sophomore in junior
year there. He's a junior, and one day's in the
gym and a freshman says to him, Bruce, are why
(36:47):
are you so dark? My dad's slightly slightly darker than me.
And my dad says, maybe it's because I'm coloring, you
know at that time, right, that's what you yourself, right,
And he said later that day everybody was shunning him,
(37:08):
like they knew he was black. He thought they knew
he was black and right, and so guys he was
friends with stopped with teammates on again, stop start shunning him,
start giving him m coole's shoulder, having a conversation. He
walks up to him, they leave like all that. So
after two weeks of this, because you know they lived
(37:30):
on the campus, right, two weeks of this is he
calls his parents. They come up and he's sitting in
the car with his dad and mom crying, and one
of his best friends, who was black, came there with
him and he's telling them what happened and he's crying
and he his dad, my grandfather says to him, son,
(37:52):
everybody can't be Jackie Robinson. Wow, come on home. Ye.
And he went home. And now I'm thankful he didn't
become a priest, right, yeah, because I don't know, I
don't think you would be around, right, right, I wouldn't
be around it was a good priest, I wouldn't. That
would be a pretty liberal order if he would. Wait
(38:13):
a minute, you were how many kids do you have? Right? Right? Right? Right?
So we worked out, but yeah, that's that's wild story man,
and that just like that, everybody can't be Jackie Robber. Wow.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of the Odd
Couple with Chris Brush and Rod Harker. Philadelphia and Toronto.
Now Philadelphia the fourth seed two superstars rot one of
the few. I mean, there's only a few teams now
(00:42):
with two bona fide superstars right right nets It's not
the Sixers, right the Lakers, but they were hurting. They're eliminated.
It's just I mean, Dallas is one. Denver right now
is one. The Clippers guys are hurt. Um Phoenix hass
but Chris Paul's older, and Adan's not quite a star,
(01:03):
certainly not a superstar. Um. They got Devin Booker, you know,
and Chris Paul stature wise, but but bottom line is
not a lot of teams have that. And in b
is in the MVP race and Harden is a legend.
Rob Toronto's beat them three out of four times, including
(01:23):
twice with James Harden, you know, in the last couple
of months since he's been there. Um, Harden said he
isn't feeling any pressure whatsoever. And look, maybe he's not.
Saw Brian Windhorse talking about he believes Harden because Harden
(01:44):
has gotten away with everything he's done. You know, he
want he quit on the rockets and what do they do?
They trading where he wants to go Brooklyn, Right, he
gets traded to where he wants to go. If even
if he plays well, he's likely to get this contract
extension worth two hundred plus million. Um. But I feel
like Rob James Harden, I think he is feeling the
(02:10):
pressure because, um, he clearly has felt the pressure. We've
seen him too often have bad games in huge moments.
And I don't mean just you're off, you're missing shots
that can happen to anybody, but I mean you're not
taking shots. You're two for ten and you're the man
(02:34):
you average thirty four US and you're only taking ten shots. Right.
That ain't getting it done. That ain't get it done.
That's melting. Okay, that's not I'm going that's not John Starks,
Rob John Starks. Everybody knows two for eighteen in the
finals against Houston. In one game he didn't melt Rob.
He would just make shots. Didn't make shots that night.
(02:55):
And if you remember that series, Chris, he balled out
in game six, which forced the game seven, right, Like
he balled out in game six, right, And that's why
you know he and I can live with that. What
what's tougher to live with as a guy losing his confidence,
freezing up and just the moment being too big. And
(03:18):
we've seen that with Harden, whether it's not shooting a lot,
giving up the ball too quickly, or turning it over
a disastrous amount of times. So um, I do think
he feels the pressure, Rob because if they could go
out in the first round, they really could. I don't
(03:38):
think people and I get a lot of people, probably
most are picking Philly, and I don't blame him. I mean,
I think I'm I'm leaning that way with a lot
of hesitation, But I wouldn't be surprised if they get
beat by Toronto because James Harden, Rob you think he
was mediocre by his standards, By his standards, you think
(04:01):
he didn't play well in Brooklyn, rob in April. Here
were his numbers, sixteen points, thirty six percent, shooting twenty
seven percent from three. So there is pressure. And you
know what, the Philly fans are like, Rob, they don't play.
If James Harden doesn't deliver, he is going to feel
(04:23):
the full force of the Sixers fans heat. And I mean,
we'll see, Like I said, if Philly's kind of in
a tough spot because they gave up Ben Simmons for him,
so they almost got to keep him. Daryl Morey loves him,
but it could end up. You know, it'll be interesting
if he struggles and they go out early what that
(04:45):
means for this contract extension that he wants to sign.
So I think James Harden robbed. I think it's one
of the most intriguing storylines in the playoffs, and certainly
in this first round. I don't doubt it at all.
I think you're spot on, and he can pooh pooh it,
Chris all he wants. He has nothing to prove and
all that. Duh, that's not true. It's just not true.
(05:09):
Because if this ship goes down in the first round
and they get knocked out and Toronto's capable, Chris, I'm
still gonna pick Philadelphia, but Toronto's capable. That's all I'm
gonna say. I'm picking Philly. But if this goes south
and it's ugly, then people will come down and the
people in Philadelphia will wonder, did we make a mistake?
(05:31):
As much as we hated Simmons, did we make a mistake? Right?
Because you might have been able to get a Lillard,
a Beal you know somebody else, right, No, definitely, And
you're starting to look at it and say this is bad.
And if he's going the other way in the nightlife
and all the other stuff, Chris is starting to it
(05:53):
takes effect at some point, right right, you're young. You
get away with it. You get away with it. You
could do god knows. When I was a young sportswriter
traveling in the country, Chris, I was. I was and destructible.
I could do anything. And now, man, I'm falling asleep
(06:14):
with the TV on and cookies on my chest. Do
you know what I'm saying? Because I can't stay up.
That's a bad that's a bad picture right now, cookies
on my chest and falling asleep looking for my glasses
in there on the top of my head. You know,
what I'm saying, like it's a bad life when you
get older. Trust I hear you. But you're right, Rob.
(06:36):
And here's the thing. James Harden will be thirty three
in August, and he has played fifteen years. I believe
he's in his He's in his uh thirteenth year, so
next year will be his fourteenth year. That's a full career.
So if he does start, then comman he as decline
(07:00):
this year. I think a lot of people are wondering,
is this the beginning of the end for James Harden
or is this just a bad year? Well, you said
it earlier this year, Chris. I mean you called it
out that that you weren't happy even though he had
numbers a lot of people would love to have and
he's gonna make it, you know, he's an all star
or whatever. You said the numbers, like you just didn't
(07:22):
like the the what you were seeing from him right
right that it didn't look right to you. And and
I remember you were almost had a glue. You were
you second guess yourself for five minutes after the nets
no no, no no about Philly because you you didn't think
it was gonna work, and you questioned it and then
(07:44):
they had five unbelievable games and you you had an
ounce it out. Maybe I was wrong, I was thinking
right because because it looked like okay, maybe I was right.
Now he's back right right now, He's back to what
you saw earlier, is what I'm saying. And we were
all fooled for for five minutes. If you remember what
(08:04):
was what was the big story somebody wrote or something
about the two of them and the best duo and
the I can't remember after five somebody I think compared
them to Shock and Coke Kobe, right, I don't remember
who it was. Yeah, it was something like that after
those five games, right right right and not no, not anymore?
And Rob, what did it? Was the Brooklyn game? Yep.
(08:29):
And that's when Kyrie went there And that's right on them,
right and Rob, that's what And I've been a heart
like I voted for him in twenty fifteen. You're not
an MVP, right right, Like I thought he should have
won it the year Steph won his first one, I
called him the one of the elite, one of the
few players who's ever been all time elite at scoring
(08:52):
and playmaking like he's he's awesome. But Rob, if they
go out again and he plays poorly and they go
out prematurely, the only conclusion to come to is that
he's just one of those guys that just wants to
go hoop, have fun, make his money, kick it, live
the life. But Rob, you know this, to win in
(09:16):
the NBA, a grueling seven game series, four times four
grueling seven game series, it is hard. Rob. I've had
whether it was while I played in high school or
college or even just some rec leagues I've been in
(09:37):
and stuff. I've been in grueling games and I've thought,
my goodness to play it, like if to play that
game seven times in a rock right, I mean, I
don't think we understand how tough that is. It's not
(09:58):
just seven games in two weeks. It's seven games against
the same team and you know each other's tend It's
like it is gruelly not just physically, but mentally and emotionally.
And Rob, I would have to conclude Harden doesn't want
to go there. He doesn't want to go to that level.
He doesn't want to push to that you know, when
(10:20):
it's hard, when it's difficult, when you don't feel like
going there. He just wants to go have fun, play ball,
shoot the Jay, make some nice passes. He don't want
to get get in that like that slug fest, you
know what I mean, that's what it's. That's what it
looks like right now for him. Well that's what we
(10:42):
saw when Kyrie said, Okay, I'm gonna you know, I'm
not gonna play all I remade it a slug fan, right,
he said, I'm gonna play on you and make you
earn all this, and it looked like he didn't want
any part of it. So if I'm a Phillip fan,
this is very big. It's not gonna stop him from
getting Chris the extension, no matter why. We won't. And
(11:04):
that because the barrel though, right, they gave up a lot.
They can't tell a guy to bounce. They just can't
because if he's bouncing, del More got to bounce to Seriously, yeah,
they would. I mean, look, would it be tempting to say, Okay,
can Tyrese Maxie be our second star to NBA? Can
(11:24):
we know Tobias can be a third guy? And and
maybe can we trade Harden for you know some good
I mean, that would be too. I would have to
explore that. Rob if they fizzle. Um, I would explore it,
but you are right. It's a tough situation for them,
and I do think most likely, no matter what happens,
he's gonna get that extension. And people are saying, well,
(11:46):
it doesn't have to be a max. I don't know.
I think it might have to just because you know,
would somebody else give it to him? All his issues,
all his flaws? Would somebody else give it to him.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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(12:07):
to listen live. I'm George Reister, host of the Reister
or Wrong Hidcast. This is the intersection where sports, business, society,
and pop culture meet the truth, absolute fire on Monday's,
Wednesdays and Fridays. Facts only. Make sure you check your
feelings at the door, because nobs is allowed. We keep
(12:30):
it one hundred. This is where real conversations happen. Listen
to the Rights or Wrong podcasts on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our next
Guest is a former Al American League Manager of the Year.
Also played in the Big leagues. We are proud to
(12:51):
welcome in Jerry Manuel, Jerry, How are you, Jerry, what's happening.
I'm good, I'm good. How you guys doing, We are doing,
You're great. We were just talking and you know, a
team you managed, the Mets. They unveiled the Tom Severer
statue today, which is beautiful outside the city field. Yeah,
(13:13):
but we just felt like it was unfortunate, and not
that they did it on purpose. They didn't mean to,
but we just thought they should have waited maybe till tomorrow,
because the day was Jackie Robinson Day, and we just
felt like you couldn't really give the attention that is
deserved to either guy boy Severer or Robinson when you
(13:34):
do both of them on the same day. Where are
you at on that? Oh? I agree, I agree wholeheartedly.
I think, uh, today is a day that kind of
brought the nation together, and Jackie Robinson is a is
iconic in that sense, and you know, so it's Tom Sieber. Uh.
(13:56):
You know, it's for for for as the Mets fan.
So I thought I think they probably reserved uh each
to have their own day rather than to share it
uh on on one day. Uh. Yeah, I agree with
that and Jerry, uh speaking of Jackie Robinson the seventy
(14:17):
fifth anniversary and you mentioned it. I mean, it wasn't
just breaking the color Barrea, but you you he changed
this country when he played and stepped on that field
and and and played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Can you
just talk about that and what it means to you
and for people who who don't understand the significance of
(14:39):
it and where we are today. Uh, yeah, it's a
it's a it's a it's a very very very huge day. Um,
you know, in in in our culture, um and in
the black culture back in the day, some old man now,
but please, Jerry, when you're that means I'm old too, man,
(15:01):
slow down. Back in the day that that was, that
was a pillar of our culture. So when you were
able to uh be validated by the highest level what
was considered the highest level of baseball and to break
the color barrier when there was a polarized country, so
(15:25):
to speaking into endure the things that he did, um,
you know was uh was was huge, was huge for
for America, but especially for Black America. It was always
a thing of trying to belong but knowing that we
(15:46):
could belong in a sport that was a pillar in
our culture. Like every Sunday afternoon back in the day,
there was there was chickens fried chickens in a baseball game,
you know. And so when and when when when a
guy goes and and and plays and and and it
(16:08):
breaks that breaks that barrier, so to speaks and to
take on what he took on for us, for me
and other um black professionals to play in in that game,
to play in the game of baseball, which which like
I said, was a pillar is uh was huge. You know,
(16:29):
it was really huge for us to to have him
make that make that statement. I mean, you you can
think I can't even think of and I'm not a historian,
but I can't even think of who's the first black
basketball player, or who's the first black hockey player, or
who's the first black football player, But everybody knows the
(16:51):
first black baseball player. You know. That's how that's how
huge it was for our coaches. That's what we did.
It's played baseball, no no doubt. Hey, hey, Jerry, I
do want to get in There's something that was bothering me.
The other day. Chris and I talked about it. As well,
and it had to do with Clayton Kershaw. He's pitching
(17:12):
a perfect game. Has only been twenty five in a
history of the game. I think it's a twenty three.
Twenty three eight pitches have done it, and he has
a perfect game going, and he's only thrown eighty pitches
and he's pulled out. Dave Roberts makes a decision. We
get it. He was hurt last year, first started a year.
(17:34):
Have we lost sight of like like special moments and
giving a guy a chance. I'm not saying let him
throw one hundred and thirty pitches to try to accomplish it,
but eighty seemed Jerry to be the right number and
to at least let him start the eighth inning. Am
I crazy? Well, you're talking to a former manager and
(17:55):
you gotta go. I'm asking you, well, you gotta go.
You got to go back to spring training and you
got to see what number that that that he maxed
out normally normally back. Uh, I can shape back when
I'm managed. But we tried to prepare the starter to
be able to at least score one hundred pitches the
(18:17):
first first time out, right, first time out? Yeah, Well,
seventy five and spring training. Yeah, yeah, well so so
then if you maxed out a seventy five and spring training,
then they're there. They're they're probably right about eighty with
the anxiety and all that goes would open the day
(18:39):
and first time out, that would probably be the be
the magic number. But if you're the maxed out, let's
say in spring training at about ninety, and you got
a perfect game going, then you gotta wait. You gotta
wait till he you know, two two, till you notice laboring. Yeah,
if he walked somebody or you know what, I mean,
(19:01):
to take them right out? Am I right? If he
walks up body, you would say, okay, you're dumb. Yeah,
but but but I don't know what their spring training
is is like or or I don't know his history
as well. Uh as as as as as they would
know they would have all that information and they're trying
(19:22):
to to to keep them healthy. That those are important,
Those are Those are very very very difficult decisions because
you're getting you might see something historical right that you've
never seen before, and sometimes you don't want to deprive
anybody of making history or the game. Jerry, you know
(19:44):
what fans the fans were bummed out. You know that
there was a chance. I mean, you've been in the
game a million years. I've been coming to a league
baseball fort But Jerry, how many how many perfect games
have you seen? I've been covering at baseball for thirty
six years, and I saw David Walls in nineteen ninety
(20:04):
eight pitch a perfect game at Yankee Stadium against the Twins.
I've only seen one. It doesn't happen every day. Yeah,
Dennis Martinez and down here in LA through a perfect
game against the Dodgers. And I was a coach. I
was a third base coach for the Montreal Exposed at
that time, and that was he threw a perfect game.
But again, that was the middle of the summer. I
(20:25):
think we was even coming back from I could be wrong,
but I think that Rodney Keene, so I could be wrong.
I think it was run around that time period, but
we were in the middle of the season, the beginning
of the seasons. I think if you are to have
some length in your rotation, and you got a good rotation,
(20:49):
you have to be somewhere careful. And again I have
to preface it with what what did seventy five pitchers
look like in spring training, did the last five the
laboring or he laboring? Uh you know that, you know,
did he get to seventy five or what have you.
If he got to seventy five, then you add ten
or fifteen more the next start, and then you think
(21:11):
that he's ready to UM pitch beyond the limit that
that they had for him, or was he cruising? I didn't.
I did not see the game he had. He had
thirteen strikeouts on eighty pitches and was unhittable. I mean, yeah,
I would have let him go for he was unhitable.
I would have allowed him to start the eighth inning.
(21:33):
First sign of trouble, a walk or something, you're out. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
I can agree with that. But but again I can't. Right,
it's it's uh, it's it's an organizational you know, somewhat
of an organizational policy. Some organizations, uh, at one time
wouldn't let you go beyond a hundred pitches, regardless of
(21:54):
what you were doing, because of the longevity of the
season when you when you were when you were managing UM.
Because we Robin, I wonder if the front office actually
called Dave Roberts and told him, look, get him out
of there no matter what. Yeah, when you were managing,
I imagine analytics was just kind of beginning to take hold. Um,
(22:20):
what did you think, I mean the game has changed
when you watched the game today, do you see, like, man,
it's just analytics dominant. We only have about a minute,
but analytics have really taken over from even when you managed. Yeah,
I think I think to some to a degree, it has.
But I think analytics is important. I think it only
(22:40):
to me. I had analytics next to me on the bench,
you know, as a young manager, but I only use
that for confirmation of what my instincts. I wouldn't. I couldn't,
I couldn't anybody if if if it's all analytics, then
anybody could manage. Right. We agree with you, but we
feel like it is going in that direction. It seems, yeah,
(23:03):
like you're trying to make the instinct second right, right,
And that's that's that's I think that's dangerous and that's
that's that's what makes the game slow, That what makes
the game somewhat boring, some of a softball type looking
game versus versus the type of game that we grew
up with with with speed, athleticism and all those types
(23:25):
of things we're missing because we're looking for a lunch
angle to the home run. So it's either home run
or strike. A good game a game, you know, we
like to two to one pitching dual. God might throw
one hundred and thirty or something pitches, but they're battling,
they fight, trapping it. You gotta hold a base running,
you gotta you gotta intentional walk. But sometimes the intentional
(23:47):
walk is uh, there's a play for that. But I mean,
I remember the time we did. We would call for
intentional walk on a three two count, but then he
said how to catch it, come back and sit down
and then throw a breaking ball right for us, right brow.
The strategy is what I loved about the game. But
analytics to me was just confirmation of what my gut
(24:08):
was chelling me during the course of the game. Yeah, well, Jerry,
thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. Great, appreciate you, Jerry. Yeah,
same here, guys, appreciate you. Be sure to catch live
editions of The Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob
Parker weekdays at seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific on
(24:28):
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Let's start with
is Jackie Robinson Day all around Major League base by
everybody wearing number forty two Beyond Jackie Robinson Day, it's
the seventy fifth anniversary of when he broke into the
big leagues, which obviously is huge. And today though in
(24:51):
New York, they also unveiled the time sever statue in
front of the the City Field. The statue is phenomenal, beautiful,
one of the one of the better ones I've seen.
Rob I really know, and they really captured. That's Tom
Severs motion. You know. Chris and I grew up, you know,
in Queens and I used to take the number seven train,
(25:13):
the E train to the number seven train to to
to the old Shakee Stadium, Me and my buddies, all
my friends we grew up with in the neighborhood. My
team was called the black Cats, Chris. For five dollars
in those days, we go see what because they were
called the black Cat? Why they was that your team?
That was your little league name? That was our neighborhood team,
(25:35):
the black Cats. Y'all made that name up? Yes, did
you play a little league? Yeah? Okay, yeah, that was
that was the team before a little league started back
the team in your little neighborhood, and in the neighborhood
back then. Yeah, do you know that you used to
have teams like that. Um. But but in those days,
we used to go watch Tom sever pitch. When he pitched,
Mets had a chance to win. So it was a
(25:57):
big deal when he was prayed exactly back in the seventies,
it was. It was tough. And so I love the statue.
I love everything about it. He should be honored. He's
one of the greatest, the greatest Met and he's a
Hall of Famer. I can't say anything negative about Tom
(26:18):
Siever because he was that great. But today the Mets
made a mistake. Today was not Tom Siever's day, Chris.
It was Jackie Robinson day. And Bud Selick a number
of years ago decided to do this when they retired.
Every you know, every number forty two on every team.
Everybody today is wearing the forty two, even in the
(26:39):
Dodgers colors, Chryst. No matter what color your uniform is.
I mean, it's a special, special day. It's not just
about baseball. And for you long, younger listeners, you need
to just take a couple of minutes and really google
and watch something and find out about Jackie Robinson and
what he meant and where this country was in nineteen
(27:02):
forty seven. Chris, it's twenty years before the Civil Rights movement,
and you know how bad it was to be a
black man in this country in nineteen forty seven. One
problem I always say, I mean, obviously you can't overstate
what doctor Martin, Luther King and all the civil rights
titans did, but you gotta give props to Jackie Robinson
(27:26):
and other black athletes of that era because what they
did to uh, you know, move African Americans into the mainstream,
that can't be overstated. Either, like without Jackie red that
that was a major part of race relations says or
buts about it like you people might say, oh, it
(27:48):
was just a game, it's just a sport. Some of
the people right now, that was humongous. It can't be overstated.
And the one thing is which I loved in the
movie forty two. And if you want to know, if
you haven't seen the whole story or you don't know
Jackie Robinson's story, Chris, that's a good movie to watch
forty Oh yeah, it really is. Entertaining, informative and right both.
(28:11):
And the thing I loved the most was they didn't
try to make branch Ricky out to be a saint,
that he was going to change the world. Chris, he
saw all these black people walking around Brooklyn and none
were at his ball game, right, none, right, seriously, and
He's like, these people walking by, they got money, what
what are we doing? And he wanted to sell tickets
(28:37):
and they went and they got and there were teams
that wanted to pull out of the league, didn't want
to play against Brooklyn the whole nine yards, and Jackie
had to turn the other cheek and deal with a lot.
There's no doubt he had a premature death, Chris, from
the stress. And when he died roughly. I gotta look
(28:59):
at it again, exact number. Yeah, but but he did
got you you felt he died prematurely. It's easy to
look it up. I'll look it up now. But um,
his widow is still alive and she is amazing. She's
gonna she's gonna turn a hundred years old. Chris. Oh, yeah,
he was fifty three. Rob, Yeah, he was young. I
didn't remember he was that young. He was young. She's
(29:21):
a husband. She's gonna be a hundred Chris, Wow. Wow.
I'm almost positive because he was born in nineteen nineteen.
Look at her. I think Rachel Robinson is gonna be
a hundred this year, which is um And she's she's
great looking. Wow, she looks wonderful. She does that that wow?
(29:44):
Am I right? Yeah? Because I've seen her within the
last few years, you know, at a game or some
ceremony and uh, Chris, July nineteen, nineteen twenty two. She's
gonna be a hundred on July nineteenth. That's incredible. And
she's she's lived fifty years essentially without Jackie. Wow. Wow. Yeah,
(30:06):
And that's that's him. That's powerful rob because I had
forgotten he died that young. But the stress on him
and for him he had to be I even hate
that he had to go through this because he should
be able to He should have been able to just
show the full range of human emotion, right right. If
(30:29):
he's angry, he can be angry, but if he might
that somebody called him this or that, he could show
like that's what human beings are, regardless of your race,
should be able to do, not that you're just running
off going crazy, but you know, like you're human, and
he couldn't be that while he was playing baseball. He
had to always be at his A plus game, right,
(30:55):
I don't mean playing although he had to perform as well.
But think rob We talk about the pressures on athletes
today and there are pressures on it, but he not old.
He had to go out there and play great baseball
because he was representing a whole segment of the country,
a whole race of people, and everybody was looking at
(31:17):
him as the example and the end off for what
blacks can and can't do. That's exactly what was on
his plate. And black people flocked to the ballpark, Chris,
when Jackie Robinson came to town, it became, you know,
a part of black culture. And some of the owners
(31:38):
I remember reading the Tigers had a racist owner, Chris,
who would quadruple the price of the tickets to try
to stop black people from coming in. When like Larry Doby,
who was a black player for the Cleveland Indians, you know,
and was the second black player in the major leagues,
Like when black players came to Detroit, he would like, like,
(32:02):
instead of it being fifty cents, it's two fifty to
get in like stuff like that. Well, well, rob, this
has often talked about. You know this, our good friend
Bill Rowden wrote from the new former league of the
New York Times. Uh, he was a colleague of mine
there when I worked there. He wrote the book forty
(32:22):
Million Dollars Slaves, and in his book he kind of
lamented you know, you had the Negro leagues back, right, um,
and some great I mean, obviously you look at the
contributions of African Americans to the game of baseball. You
know it was great, you know because all the great
black players would have been in the Negro leagues at
that time. So you know, then the Major league didn't
(32:47):
look what he did. And you know, Rob that the
story is that Jackie Robinson was not the best player
in the Negro League, but he was the one that
they felt had the personality and the demeanor and the
credentials because of education and everything. Right, would he would
even put it this way to be acceptable white America.
(33:07):
I hate to even put it that way, but that's
that's the truth. He wasn't the best player, right right,
and he wouldn't let it up in Major League baseball.
But rob people look at it and I know it's
hindsight now, but you had obviously blacks in high places
(33:27):
in the Negro League. Sure, they were general managers, manager
own teams. Yeah, they're doing all that. Do you think
And again, it's easy to say in hindsight, but some
people say it would have been better had they been
able to negotiate instead of just letting Jackie you know here, okay,
Jackie Robinson's going in and suddenly soon most other players
(33:50):
were going in and the Negro leagues obviously disbanded. Right,
could they have negotiated, like, you know, okay, a merger
even though obviously they didn't have the stature in the
cloud that the major leagues had. But could they have
done something like that? And we're just fantasized right now,
(34:11):
But don't you know where you would have had more
blacks in higher places? I don't think so in nineteen
forty seven, Chris, because of what we were just talking
about civil rights and how black people you're talking about
separate water fountains. They aren't going to come to the
table and sit with black people and say, oh, yeah,
you know, we'll pay you for a Jackie and we'll
(34:31):
put a Nego League team and then American like like no, Like,
I'm with you. It would have been a great thing.
But I don't think at that time it was. It
would have been difficult. It might have been. I mean, yeah,
it would have been your right have been like yeah,
I mean almost a completely black team in the Major
(34:53):
League Baseball would have been you know, it would have
cost craziness. But money talks, you know, and they, like
you said, branch Rickey wanted that black money. He did,
he was And again I totally get it. It is
easy to say in hindsight. So I'm not saying they
should have done it. You know, they should have done it,
(35:14):
but it's easy to say right now. But it's just
it's just, you know, when you think about the things
we talk about, not only in baseball but all the sports,
lack of black managers, lack of black coaches, lack owners
obviously no owners are very few owners. Yeah, I mean
that's where it would have been nice had it been
(35:37):
able to be more of a partnership. Now we would
have had to stand up and demand it because they
weren't gonna give it to us for sure. Um, but
you know, it's just something to think about. Uh, when
when you look at situations like this, right. I got
a quick story too, my dad. I don't know if
I ever shared this with you. My dad actually studied
to be a priest, a cat, a cat like priests really,
(36:01):
so for two years in high school, two of his
years he went to seminary Catholic Seminary priests and he
was you know, he was there for two years. He's popular.
I've looked at all his photos. He was an athlete,
you know, had a lot of friends and all that,
and one of just a handful out of like one
hundred and fifty guys, only a couple African Americans couldn't
(36:24):
have been that. Yeah, he might have been one of
two Christians, right, oh yeah right? Or maybe that maybe
the only one for all I know. But he's so,
he's a junior, so he's spend a sophomore in junior
year there. He's a junior, and one day's in the
gym and a freshman says to him, Bruce, are why
(36:47):
are you so dark? My dad's slightly slightly darker than me.
And my dad says, maybe it's because I'm coloring, you
know at that time, right, that's what you yourself, right,
And he said later that day everybody was shunning him,
(37:08):
like they knew he was black. He thought they knew
he was black and right, and so guys he was
friends with stopped with teammates on again, stop start shunning him,
start giving him m coole's shoulder, having a conversation. He
walks up to him, they leave like all that. So
after two weeks of this, because you know they lived
(37:30):
on the campus, right, two weeks of this is he
calls his parents. They come up and he's sitting in
the car with his dad and mom crying, and one
of his best friends, who was black, came there with
him and he's telling them what happened and he's crying
and he his dad, my grandfather says to him, son,
(37:52):
everybody can't be Jackie Robinson. Wow, come on home. Ye.
And he went home. And now I'm thankful he didn't
become a priest, right, yeah, because I don't know, I
don't think you would be around, right, right, I wouldn't
be around it was a good priest, I wouldn't. That
would be a pretty liberal order if he would. Wait
(38:13):
a minute, you were how many kids do you have? Right? Right? Right? Right?
So we worked out, but yeah, that's that's wild story man,
and that just like that, everybody can't be Jackie Robber. Wow.
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