May 15, 2024 • 36 mins
Chris and Rob debate whether the TV ratings (2.1 million viewers) for Caitlin Clark’s WNBA debut were a good or bad indicator of what’s to come, argue over whether there were people trying to discredit Nikola Jokic as a player when the Denver Nuggets fell down 0-2 to the Minnesota Timberwolves and discuss if Jalen Brunson’s breakout postseason is somehow an indictment on Luka Doncic.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brushaw and Rob Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
All right, Rob, we talked about it a bit last night.
It was happening during our show. Caitlin Clark makes her
WNBA debut and the results, I mean, they lost handily.
She had twenty points, but it was not you know,
(00:52):
that's misleading. She had ten turnovers, so it wasn't, you know,
a debut to write home about. But nevertheless, twenty points,
ten turnovers in a loss in her first game. But
the ratings, Rob, Rob g two point one million. Is
(01:13):
that what it was? That is correct? And that is
the highest rated WNBA game, regular season or playoff in
the past twenty years. Twenty three years. I mean how
long has the WNBA been around, Almost thirty so it's
not the all time, yeah, but I mean twenty three years.
(01:34):
My goodness, that's pretty good. I think that's a good start.
She's going against NBA All Star games. I mean, I'm
not all Star games, playoff games, and she gets their
highest rated show in twenty three years. I think that's
pretty good. I mean, obviously she could play better. She's
gonna need to play better. But what are your thoughts
(01:55):
on that?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Rob Chris, I'm in the minority on the outside looking in.
If you're WNBA fans, WNBA hierarchy, WNBA commissioner, and you
had the dreaming goal and hopes that Caitlyn Clark was
gonna turn this league around, I got news for you
(02:16):
is this on her WNBA debut was a flop and
Caitlyn Clark Chris Broussard is dead on arrival for the WNBA.
You could take a look at those numbers and go,
my god, it's the best ratings in twenty three years.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Here's my issue.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
It's outside the top ten of all time TV ratings,
outside the top ten for this woman. Ye Wnbaba, she's
outside the top ten. This is a woman who captured
all basketball fans, not just women's basketball. All basketball fans
(03:02):
had incredible numbers for the Ncuba. All those big numbers
and for her debut to be port shooting ten turnovers,
more turnovers than a bakery and they lost the game.
That is a bad sign. They were expecting American idol ratings.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
They got old Barnaby Jones.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Ratings. I'm talking about ridiculous thing. I'm talking about great ratings,
well great ratings, Okay. I don't think they were expecting
American idol ratings. They wanted.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
To show that, oh my god, the Messiah has arrived easily.
I thought Christy would be the all time ratings for
a w NBA game. It was one of ESPN. It
was up again a non sexy Pacers Nicks blowout.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
That you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
The Knicks have had the highest rated games in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Okay, I'm telling you that if people had any curiosity
about her, she blew the opportunity. It's just like I've
said all the time, the XFL, the USFL, the UFL,
their best ratings are Week one, they only go down.
And because she didn't play that great. Am I really
(04:30):
going now? If she had blew the lid off of it,
Chris and had these ridiculous numbers and the all time
leading TV ratings for the WNBA. People would be like,
oh my god, I missed it. I want to see
I gotta see this. If she has another poor game
or doesn't play that well, and as time goes on,
people will be like, she's not even that good. She
(04:51):
hadn't even been that great in the WNBA, Like there
was a missed opportunity. Christ I'm not saying they should
have had a forty TV rating. Well what I am?
I am stunned that she wasn't in the top ten
all time in the WNBA coming off the Monster College numbers.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
That's what I'm shocked at.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And even to sellout crowd, you want to parade eight
thousand people in the casino in Connecticut.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Okay, they sold it out great. It just was a flop.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
It was a dud, and we needed her to have
some fantastic game to build and have.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
People be like, oh my god, I missed it.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I have to see it next week or her next game.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I have to be there. It has to be appointment television.
NBA game stop. You know what's a dud and a flop?
That little monologue, I mean, what did you expect? Really?
You threw out American Idol. I don't think they you
ad meant that because Roger, what are American Idol's ratings? Chris,
it's an analogy? Please, Well, I'm just saying it's an
(05:59):
analogy about the situation. Why don't you just say great?
Because I don't know if it's an analogy or if
that's really what you think they were expecting. It was
the highest rated WNBA game in twenty three years. I mean,
Rob Cheryl Miller did ratings like Caitlyn Clark way back
in the eighties. So should we take that and say, oh,
(06:21):
she wasn't we've seen this before. It's relative. All the
other top games were in like the nineteen nineties, so
that's when the league was fairly new and there was
a curiosity about the league. Those games were on NBC
(06:41):
and national television. They weren't on cable when you look
at the top ten ratings.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So I don't know if you're are you saying it
was a flop because of how she played or because
the ratings number was so low, or do you think
has she played better the radies number would have been,
Like is it a mix or what? I'm just trying
to get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Debut was a flop, both for her the way she played,
we know it and the numbers. The numbers she was
coming off an eighteen point seven million people watch it,
I know, but two point one outside of the top ten, Chris,
most TV numbers. When you talk about the past or whatever,
(07:32):
it's shocking that she was outside the top ten.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
She went outside the top ten.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
They've been averaging six thousand fans in the WNBA the
last decade outside the top ten. Nah, that's a flop years,
that's a flop about.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That the highest in twenty three years? What do you
make of that?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
It ain't the highest, It ain't the It got to
be in the top ten. She's supposed to be a chick,
a game changer. She's supposed to move the needle, Chris.
She didn't move the needle enough on her day, Bud.
It was a day, but not a debut.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I disagree. I mean, she certainly didn't play well, So
I'm with you there.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Iowa against Iowa against Ohio State, Chris got a three
point three nine Iowa against Ohio State and she got
a two point.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
One on ESP said yesterday, Look, the w NBA is
not women's college basketball. It's not in Cuba, especially CUBLEA
tournament basketball. It's just not I even said last night,
it doesn't have the same buzz Chris.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Her draft night two point four to five million on
the draft night, what.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Well, I don't think that was because of the way
she played. No, I'm just talking about this whole hyped
about that game. I wasn't hyped about that. It was like, Okay,
let's see what she does. But am I hyped about it?
Am I turning away from the NBA playoffs to watch it? No,
you gotta look at what they were up agains. They're
up against the NBA playoffs, and you said Knicks pas
(09:06):
Knicks draw.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
A blowout, a blowout game? You a blowout, Chris, you're
watching that tile?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No, No, any today are different because there's always a
chance you might be able to come back. We talk
about it all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
If you had any curiosity, is it what it used
to be, if the average Joe had any curiosity about
Caitlin on the next level and the w NBA. If
you're not watching her debut, I'm sorry you're not watching
Game seven when they're playing the Tulsa Shock.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I don't even know is that.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
A real team? Is that a team anymore? Rob g
The Tulsa Shock that used to be.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
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Speaker 1 (10:29):
Last night in a pivotal game, game fives are always
very pivotal, and Nicola Jokics led the Denver Nuggets to
a victory one twelve to ninety seven over the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Game six tomorrow night back in Minnesota, but Denver Leeds
(10:51):
three to two. They were down two and so quite
a comeback by them to win the next three games.
But yo, kinch Rob was just spectacular. There's no other
way to That's the best way to describe him. Chris, Yes,
sphectim in those spectacular incredible forty points, thirteen assists, seven rebounds,
(11:15):
no turnovers. Chris said, there it is.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
We were talking about Kaitlin Clark with the more than
turnovers than Pillsbury. Could you imagine no turnovers with forty points, no.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Turnovers, and he's the primary ballham ballhams degree for them
fifteen for twenty two from the field and Rob, I
would saying the day on first things first, you know,
after they won the championship last year, I had him
rated as the seventh best center all time behind Kareem Russell,
(11:49):
Shaq Will, Elijahwan and Moses Malone. And I'm not just
doing this based on last night. It's everything watching him
and we'll see whether he wins the championship this year
or not. I'm moving in my head on my in
my list, I'm moving in my head of Moses Malone.
(12:10):
So now I've got him six and trying to chase
down Elajahwan to get in my top five, for what
that's worth. But the dude does everything. Robin last night
was I mean, all his skills were on display. Say,
he didn't rebound as well as usual, but you know
seven is a small number for him. You know that
(12:31):
is a small number. Chris.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think there's a couple of things here, And it's
not people can It's not that you can have a
different opinion on who you want to vote for for
MVP and you come up with your point to whatever.
But some of the stuff that we heard last year
and this year almost like wanting to discredit him this year.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah, after they lost the first two games.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, after he lost the two games, I think people
were ready to pounce to say that he wasn't that guy,
that that oh they neutralized him.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Oh look, he can't do this.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Like after those first two games, I got a sense
that people were ready to say, okay, well he won
those three MVP, But I really don't know. Because he
never beat a team old with more than fifty wins,
there were always something.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
To hang over the to No, I get it.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Never be the playoff team. This will be the first
fifty win or fifty plus win playoff team, fifty or
better win playoff team that he beats him. It was
I didn't fish go ahead. I just didn't sense a
lot of like that. People were thinking he wasn't as
good as we thought.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
We had last year, Perkins saying that the only was
last year. No, but I just want to make the
point that he was a stat stuffer and he only
was winning MVPs because he was white and all kinds
of other stuff. That was just one guy, Okay, but
but it's a guy on the national platform.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I'm just talking about what he said. I mean, And
my issue was.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That this guy has put in a herculean effort and
if he does this, I said, I heard Colin on
our very radio network now talk about him being in
the top ten on his list. Chris, something I said
before this all the playoffs started. I said, if he
wins it the third and MVP in four years and
(14:27):
they win another title, I'm gonna have him in my
top ten because that's the kind of resume he's put together.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And now he's turned it up even.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
A bigger degree because he was down two on the
Ropes losing two games at home and everybody and he
didn't play that great. He played okay in one game
and not great the other. They got blown out embarrassed
in game two at home. And for him to turn
that around, for them to be as dominant as they can,
(14:55):
when everybody thought that the Timberwolves had their number and
they had the formula to neutralize them and all this
other stuff, and for him to beat this dominant in
the next three games, I think they're gonna close it
out and Minnesota won't win another game. And if this
propels them to that back to back championship, which I
(15:16):
think they're going to get, I don't care who comes
out of the East. I believe this team is gonna
win an ALE championship. And I just where they are
and whatnot, and I just and to me, it's hard.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I don't know what it'll take for people.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Even with Shack's comments that he didn't think he deserved it,
which is fine, I said, it's his opinion, that's fine.
I just think that there's people were waiting and hoping.
Now that's just the way I read the room. I
could be totally wrong. I got the sense after they
fell behind two, and everybody wrote them off. They wrote
(15:53):
them off out of disrespect to him, that he wasn't
going to be able to turn it around. He wasn't
going to be able to regroup against that team. Chris,
even you said they look like a suburban team playing
a team.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
From the hood.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
It looks like they would being I'm just saying, like,
I'm just saying your analogy.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Look like, I'm not running from that analogy.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But but but I think I think there was a
bit of that, and now people are having to rethink that,
and I think he's here to stay.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
This dude is here, say Rob, I'm talking about I
think you're overstating the hate. No, I think the hate
is real. You think somebody thought he wasn't here to
state if they would have lost, who thought he wasn't here?
They would have lost this series?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Chris being coming off the championship, Yes, had they been
with had they been swept, that maybe he ain't that guy.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He ain't no top ten player.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
How did you win a championship player?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yet? Okay, you're nine years old.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
No, I'm talking about I'm just saying, I think you're
way overstating now, people writing off the Nuggets. No, they
weren't running off him.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
There's nobody else, say say, there's nobody else on that
team that's an All Star. They were writing him off.
They were writing off the Nuggets. They were saying he
couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Okay, can I say you've said your case. I'm a rebutted.
Even if their team were to lose the series, that
doesn't mean you're not saying he's a great player. I mean,
anybody that would say yo, if they had gotten swept,
anybody who would have fixed their mouth to say he's
(17:32):
not great would have been out of their minds seriously,
and to write him off forever. He's twenty nine years old,
he's got a I mean, he got another ten years
if he wants it to play. He's got another at
least six or seven, if not more, to be dominant.
(17:53):
So I don't know, I just think you're way over
state now. Saying his team would lose doesn't mean you're
saying he's not great. You know how many times Shaq
was swept. Shack was swept like six times, I think.
I mean, and when the year Shaq didn't win the championship,
that didn't mean he wasn't great. The years Lebron didn't
win the championship, that didn't mean he wasn't great. So
(18:17):
I just think you're going overboard. If you want to
say people wrote off the Nuggets, fine, and they did,
and I did, but the same people. I certainly wasn't
thinking Jokics wasn't great. And I don't know any I
can't think of anybody in their right mind that would
say if they got swept in this series, he wasn't great.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
They were ready to pounce on that guy who they.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Bring up pick Perkins? Hold on, you bring up Kendrick
Perkins from a year more than a year ago before
Yokish won his last his first championship.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
No, I'm talking about a different conquests.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I was there when the when the Pistons and and
and they beat Shaq and Kobe even when they were
down in this series, Okay, everybody I remember. I was there,
Oh the Lakers when they lost Game one, okay.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And then Shacking.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
With this, I'm trying to make the point that they
didn't rule out Shack even.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Though they got three championship doesn't matter. He has won,
and they already were ruling them off. They were ruling.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
They were ruling him out because they wanted to and
they were hoping that this was gonna be a one
time championship, and he won't that guy.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
He's proven people that he was going to be able
to bounce back. You're just telling numbers are fantastic. His
play is unlike anything we've ever seen. He's invented the
point center position.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
And yet when he went down oh two, everybody threw
the toweling on him.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
They didn't it on the Nuggets, they on him.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
No, it's a team game. And you mentioned Shaq and Kobe,
Shack and Kobe. That's why people didn't write him off
because it wasn't shock. Like I said, We saw a
shot get swept time and time again.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You know, because you champions against the team Chris that
you said before the playoffs started, you didn't buy into
the Timberwolves because they were too young and they have
been on that road before.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That said. What I said is, let's see. Every every
time we talked to Antonio Daniels, I was like, let's see.
I want to see if OKC and Minnesota are for real.
Because they're young, they we gotta see something from them.
But my point is writing off the Nuggets. Is not
writing off the Kolonic like we're writing off the Lakers.
(20:40):
Does that mean we think Anthony Davis ain't no good?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
No, but we know Lebron can't win no championship till
That's why you write them off? Chris, you don't believe.
You don't believe Lebron's gonna win another championship?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Do you No?
Speaker 4 (20:52):
But okay, then that's writing him off. That's writing him.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That doesn't mean you're saying he's not a good play you.
I think people were saying, yogis goold. Know that what
people were saying and hoping and wishing was that he
got swimming a lot. I'm reading the room and I'm
reading the comments on how people bailed I don't player.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
They bailed on him as soon as as soon as
there was blood the championship. As soon as there was
blood in the water, they ran from him.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Oh they're gonna get swept. They're not that good.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They've utilized, they are going to get swept. We rode
off Yiannis too. Does that mean people think he's not great?
I mean, sir, that's all I'm saying. If you want
to say people wrote off the Nuggets. They did people.
They rode off Yokic, he just won his third NVP
in four years.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
They still rode them off.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
As soon as there was one chink in the armor,
that one thing went wrong, they were down on to
Oh my god, look at them, they've they've got them
the magic formula.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
They neutralized them. Look how we talk. We talk about
him because he's not beating them by himself. I mean,
that's what I'm saying, Like it's a team game, rob
nobody was their years when Lebron was in his crime.
When we say he's not gonna win the championship, so
we thought he couldn't play anymore? We again, Yannis, we
(22:21):
were saying he's smack dab in the middle of his prime.
He wasn't gonna win it this year. Does that mean
we think he couldn't play? Did we think MBI was
gonna win it? No, I picked the Knicks to beat
him bid. Does that mean I think he can't play
or that he's not It wasn't worthy of his one MVP.
That's what I just don't I again, if you want
(22:42):
to say people underestimate the Nuggets, like you said, he
doesn't have another All Star teammate, So really, I mean,
I think people questioning the rest of those guys. It
was Jamal Murray's not having a great postseason other than
hitting the game winning shots. I mean, I just, I
(23:02):
just right, And again, you brought up Kendrick Perkins and
that was fine, But that's a whole different context. That
was before Jokic had won anything. So I just and
that was, you know, he brought in race. But I
don't know, I disagree. I don't think people were writing
off Jokic even as they thought this team might lose.
(23:23):
All right, eight seven, seven ninety nine on Fox What
are your thoughts? Rond says people were quick to write
off for trying to write off Nicola Jokic, Like there's
some type of I guess hate or I hate obviously
it's too strong, but some dislike of Yolkic. What they
don't want him to be the best guy in the league.
They don't want they don't want him to win. They
(23:45):
don't want him to be Then why don't they want
him to be the best player in the league.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
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listen live.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
The Knicks are playing the Pacers in the other series,
and the Knicks up three to two, and Rob Jalen
Brunson has just been phenomenal. Neither you nor I think
he's a superstar. He may become one. We're not ready
to give it to him yet, but he is certainly
(24:22):
having a historic series in this series. After scoring forty
four last night with seven dimes, Rob he's averaging thirty
two points, five point eight assists on forty eight percent
shooting in this series. In the playoffs in general, his
numbers are about thirty five points a game. So he's
(24:45):
having a terrific postseason here. And here's what I want
to know. We all know that a couple of years
ago he was in Dallas, right and he was the
the Mavericks. Rob would not give him a five year,
(25:05):
fifty five million dollar contract. He ended up getting one
hundred million with the Knicks over four years, I believe
it was. But still, you know, not paid like a
superstar in Dallas. To think what they could have had
is just crazy. Now, look, they've got Kyrie Irving and
(25:27):
you know they're they got a chance or good chance.
Most people think they get at least to the conference.
Find some blunder though on their part. Yeah, because they're
paying Kyrie twice as much.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Right, it's not even the it's obviously the top talent
blossom even more. But the amount of money fifty five
is like not you could have You could have sinned
him and moved him if you want to, you.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Know what I mean, Or it's better yet signed him
and added you know, more pieces around.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Or I'm just saying if you wanted to move him,
like you still could have done that, like he was
a value piece.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Had fifty five million for the Knicks. Rob he got
four years, one hundred and four million. So here's his numbers.
Rob with the Dallas Mavericks. All of these years were
with Luca. So his first year he started sparingly. His
last year in Dallas he was like a full time starter.
(26:25):
He's kind of part time starter his first year off
the bench the next two years for the most part.
But anyway, nine points a game as a rookie. Eight
points a game is second year, twelve and a half
points a game is third year, and in his final
year in Dallas, Rob sixteen point three points a game.
In the playoffs, he averaged twenty one and a half points.
(26:46):
And that's when I remember Luca, I think, was out
a few of those games, and Brunson kind of emrged, like, Oh,
this guy's got a package on him and he's doing
some damage. And so here's what I want to ask you,
rob is Jalen Brunson's play this season and even last
(27:07):
season he averaged twenty four points a game. Uh, this season,
Robby was fifth in the MVP voting, probably gonna be
second team All NBA. I had him on my second
team All NBA.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
So are his.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Achievements in New York an indictment of Luka Doncic because
Luca was there with him and you saw none of
this from Brunson.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, it's an indictment that maybe you know, he Stemy's
other players because of his dominance with the ball, Chris and.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
What he does and and and and you.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Know what I mean. Kyrie's had some great games there, Chris.
But but are the other two nine point duds in
this series? Is that in an indictment or.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I don't think that's an indictment on Luke at all.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
You know, I'm just saying Kyrie, Yeah, like maybe just
not being aggressive. But my point is that sometimes someone
playing with somebody. It could be the same way that
maybe the Knicks found out that they don't need Julius Randall,
like you know, like Julius Randall, maybe Steimied Brunting a
(28:15):
little bit as well. I'm just saying, when you start
to look at people and why they're doing, what they
can do and what they're able to accomplish without having
somebody with the ball, I think that there's a case
that can be made.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
No, I think you make sense. Look, it's no secret
Luka Doncis is ball dominant, right, and I think that's
a weakness. I think that's a that in my Jordan
versus Lebron debate, one of my criticisms I guess of
Lebron is that he's too you know, in his prime.
(28:49):
He's not so much as much now, but in his
prime he was too ball dominant. And when one guy's
dominating the action the ball and making the decisions for
everybody and you know he's gonna shoot or put the
ball in the hands of the guy that's gonna shoot,
I think that can limit some of the players and
I think it's hard to win that way, and I
(29:09):
think that's why, I mean Lebron's had a hard time
winning championships Rob. I mean, four is great, but it's
in twenty one years, and a lot of them have
been or two of them at least were really hard
to come by, right the Warriors where you come back
three to one, and the Spurs, you know when Ray
Allen hit the big shot in game six, and so
(29:31):
I think with Luca it's similar. A lot of people
compare Luca Rob to James Harden. Obviously he hasn't won
a championship now came close. We gotta be fair to
Harden the year, you know, he and Chris Paul were
up three to two and Chris Paul gets hurt. Harden
couldn't close out against Golden State, but they did come close,
(29:53):
but obviously never got over the hump, right, And I
do think Look, I think Kyrie Rob is able to
play with Luca and excel with Luca, and he was
able to excel with Lebron because Kyrie is unique in
that for a guy that has his bag and his
(30:13):
bag is one of the greatest in the history of
the game and can create his own stuff. He also
Rob is a great catch and shoot player, and that's
the difference. He is a great jump shooter. Brunson needs
the ball. You watch the Knicks. Rob Brunson's got the
ball in his hands all the time, and so with
(30:33):
Luca he had to kind of be off the ball,
and that's just not He's not going to shine that way.
And I think this postseason Rob for Luca, this is
kind of a litmus test. I've said, I don't think
you win championships that way. I think they need to
figure out how to play more five man basketball. Now.
(30:57):
They've been better in the part because Kyrie can be
that second guy off the ball and still get his
twenty five plus points. But if they don't and I
don't think they can beat Denver, Rob, I think they could.
I would pick Minnesota if they meet Dallas in the
Congerence finals, but I think Dallas would have a great
(31:17):
chance to win. But I don't think they have a
good chance to beat Denver. And if they don't get
to the finals this year, Rob, they might look at
it as hey, we got close, you know, we just
need to tweak here or there. But I would think
that I just think when you move the ball, when
you get everybody involved, Rob, that's just a better brand
(31:39):
of basketball. And you know, you look at the great
teams Rob, the Showtime Lakers, it was five man basketball,
even though you had the great Magic Johnson a point guard.
The Bird Celtics, same thing. Jordan Rob for all, he
shot a lot, but that ball was moved and Jordan
(32:01):
wasn't ball dominant. You know, he didn't dribble out the
clock a lot. He did earlier. He had the ball
in his hands more before Jackson got there, Phil Jackson.
And then they started winning when they started, you know,
popping that ball around Steph obviously, Golden State, the Spurs
who gave the Heat so much trouble, they lot of
(32:21):
ball movement Denver Rob. Even though Jokic is obviously, you know,
the one that makes everything happen and his players are
running through him, he doesn't hold the ball a lot.
He's giving it up quickly, you know, a little handoffs
and screens or passes. And I just think that if
(32:42):
Luca wants to win to the level that his talent
says he should Rob, if they don't, you know, get
to the finals this year, I think that's something some
type of offense. Dallas should really look at institution. So
you just I do think Brunson's are somewhat of an
indictment Luca.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, what if they don't? What if they lose this series, Chris,
would that change your mind at all? Or if Dallas
uses this Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean it would be what I'm saying, like,
I just think that they need to figure out a
way to kind of not be so Luca centric. I mean,
he's gonna be your best player, he's gonna be a
leading scorer. And the Nuggets are you know, Yokic centric.
But still the ball. Everybody's touching the rock, the ball,
and he you know what, Chris, he gives up the
(33:28):
ball of somebody. Absolutely, he does know he is not
he's on dominant at all, even though he's touching it
on every possession. Rob, he's not ball dom He's getting
rid of it quickly. And this is the thing. When
you see Michael Porter Junior going off or KCP or
Jamal you don't you don't think, wow, this is odd
(33:50):
or wow they taking a lot of shots that that's
how they play and that's fine. And it was the
same thing with the Birds and magic teams, and that's
why I compare you to them. And yet if it's
if it was one of Lebron's great teams, Rob or
uh Dallas, if somebody other than Luca or Kyrie's going
(34:12):
off or with Lebron, if somebody else was going off
other than him or maybe Wade, it was a bit surprising.
It was a bit like, wow, look at that, you know,
because you're not you were used to seeing one of
those two kind of do everything. And so I don't
think it's an indictment on Luca's ability and talent and
(34:33):
greatness what Brunson is doing, but I do think it's
it could be an indictment on their his style of play,
and I think it would be something that Dallas should
try to fix because he's in year six, Rob and
you can get it can become there'll be a point
maybe some people might think we're already there where that's
the only way he can really play.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And Chris just some numbers real quick, brunting a juice's
rape thirty six point five in these playoffs. For some context,
Jordan in his career, juss rate was thirty five point
five in the playoffs and Luca's career playoff Uss Ray
Chris thirty seven point five.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Who's Luca thirty seven five?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
And you so short?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
There's no way that Luca and Brunton can coexist to
play together.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Thirty six and a half and thirty seven and a half.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
That's one of the indictments of this generation, or really
the previous generation of players. You have so many ball
dominant guys and it's hard to put ball dominant guys together.
Wade and Lebron both ball dominant. It worked because they
were just both so great, and Wade did step back
the second, third, and fourth seasons, you know, to try
(35:47):
to win, and they did win too. And usage rate
rob also takes into consideration shots, and that's why Jordan's
usage rate is high because, like I said, he did
shoot a lot. Nobody would say didn't. But he didn't dribble,
he didn't dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble the air
out of the ball. And that's the difference. That's a
(36:08):
lot different. Shooting a lot is a lot different than
dribbling the shot clock down and then making a play.
So that's why I don't think Jordan's usage rate is
this similar. You know, I know it is numerically, but
in essence, I don't think it's similar to like Jokic
or Brunson now or any of that
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brushaw and Rob Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
All right, Rob, we talked about it a bit last night.
It was happening during our show. Caitlin Clark makes her
WNBA debut and the results, I mean, they lost handily.
She had twenty points, but it was not you know,
(00:52):
that's misleading. She had ten turnovers, so it wasn't, you know,
a debut to write home about. But nevertheless, twenty points,
ten turnovers in a loss in her first game. But
the ratings, Rob, Rob g two point one million. Is
(01:13):
that what it was? That is correct? And that is
the highest rated WNBA game, regular season or playoff in
the past twenty years. Twenty three years. I mean how
long has the WNBA been around, Almost thirty so it's
not the all time, yeah, but I mean twenty three years.
(01:34):
My goodness, that's pretty good. I think that's a good start.
She's going against NBA All Star games. I mean, I'm
not all Star games, playoff games, and she gets their
highest rated show in twenty three years. I think that's
pretty good. I mean, obviously she could play better. She's
gonna need to play better. But what are your thoughts
(01:55):
on that?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Rob Chris, I'm in the minority on the outside looking in.
If you're WNBA fans, WNBA hierarchy, WNBA commissioner, and you
had the dreaming goal and hopes that Caitlyn Clark was
gonna turn this league around, I got news for you
(02:16):
is this on her WNBA debut was a flop and
Caitlyn Clark Chris Broussard is dead on arrival for the WNBA.
You could take a look at those numbers and go,
my god, it's the best ratings in twenty three years.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Here's my issue.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
It's outside the top ten of all time TV ratings,
outside the top ten for this woman. Ye Wnbaba, she's
outside the top ten. This is a woman who captured
all basketball fans, not just women's basketball. All basketball fans
(03:02):
had incredible numbers for the Ncuba. All those big numbers
and for her debut to be port shooting ten turnovers,
more turnovers than a bakery and they lost the game.
That is a bad sign. They were expecting American idol ratings.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
They got old Barnaby Jones.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Ratings. I'm talking about ridiculous thing. I'm talking about great ratings,
well great ratings, Okay. I don't think they were expecting
American idol ratings. They wanted.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
To show that, oh my god, the Messiah has arrived easily.
I thought Christy would be the all time ratings for
a w NBA game. It was one of ESPN. It
was up again a non sexy Pacers Nicks blowout.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
That you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
The Knicks have had the highest rated games in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Okay, I'm telling you that if people had any curiosity
about her, she blew the opportunity. It's just like I've
said all the time, the XFL, the USFL, the UFL,
their best ratings are Week one, they only go down.
And because she didn't play that great. Am I really
(04:30):
going now? If she had blew the lid off of it,
Chris and had these ridiculous numbers and the all time
leading TV ratings for the WNBA. People would be like,
oh my god, I missed it. I want to see
I gotta see this. If she has another poor game
or doesn't play that well, and as time goes on,
people will be like, she's not even that good. She
(04:51):
hadn't even been that great in the WNBA, Like there
was a missed opportunity. Christ I'm not saying they should
have had a forty TV rating. Well what I am?
I am stunned that she wasn't in the top ten
all time in the WNBA coming off the Monster College numbers.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
That's what I'm shocked at.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And even to sellout crowd, you want to parade eight
thousand people in the casino in Connecticut.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Okay, they sold it out great. It just was a flop.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
It was a dud, and we needed her to have
some fantastic game to build and have.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
People be like, oh my god, I missed it.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I have to see it next week or her next game.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I have to be there. It has to be appointment television.
NBA game stop. You know what's a dud and a flop?
That little monologue, I mean, what did you expect? Really?
You threw out American Idol. I don't think they you
ad meant that because Roger, what are American Idol's ratings? Chris,
it's an analogy? Please, Well, I'm just saying it's an
(05:59):
analogy about the situation. Why don't you just say great?
Because I don't know if it's an analogy or if
that's really what you think they were expecting. It was
the highest rated WNBA game in twenty three years. I mean,
Rob Cheryl Miller did ratings like Caitlyn Clark way back
in the eighties. So should we take that and say, oh,
(06:21):
she wasn't we've seen this before. It's relative. All the
other top games were in like the nineteen nineties, so
that's when the league was fairly new and there was
a curiosity about the league. Those games were on NBC
(06:41):
and national television. They weren't on cable when you look
at the top ten ratings.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So I don't know if you're are you saying it
was a flop because of how she played or because
the ratings number was so low, or do you think
has she played better the radies number would have been,
Like is it a mix or what? I'm just trying
to get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Debut was a flop, both for her the way she played,
we know it and the numbers. The numbers she was
coming off an eighteen point seven million people watch it,
I know, but two point one outside of the top ten, Chris,
most TV numbers. When you talk about the past or whatever,
(07:32):
it's shocking that she was outside the top ten.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
She went outside the top ten.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
They've been averaging six thousand fans in the WNBA the
last decade outside the top ten. Nah, that's a flop years,
that's a flop about.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That the highest in twenty three years? What do you
make of that?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
It ain't the highest, It ain't the It got to
be in the top ten. She's supposed to be a chick,
a game changer. She's supposed to move the needle, Chris.
She didn't move the needle enough on her day, Bud.
It was a day, but not a debut.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I disagree. I mean, she certainly didn't play well, So
I'm with you there.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Iowa against Iowa against Ohio State, Chris got a three
point three nine Iowa against Ohio State and she got
a two point.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
One on ESP said yesterday, Look, the w NBA is
not women's college basketball. It's not in Cuba, especially CUBLEA
tournament basketball. It's just not I even said last night,
it doesn't have the same buzz Chris.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Her draft night two point four to five million on
the draft night, what.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Well, I don't think that was because of the way
she played. No, I'm just talking about this whole hyped
about that game. I wasn't hyped about that. It was like, Okay,
let's see what she does. But am I hyped about it?
Am I turning away from the NBA playoffs to watch it? No,
you gotta look at what they were up agains. They're
up against the NBA playoffs, and you said Knicks pas
(09:06):
Knicks draw.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
A blowout, a blowout game? You a blowout, Chris, you're
watching that tile?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No, No, any today are different because there's always a
chance you might be able to come back. We talk
about it all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
If you had any curiosity, is it what it used
to be, if the average Joe had any curiosity about
Caitlin on the next level and the w NBA. If
you're not watching her debut, I'm sorry you're not watching
Game seven when they're playing the Tulsa Shock.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I don't even know is that.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
A real team? Is that a team anymore? Rob g
The Tulsa Shock that used to be.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
Hey, it's Ben, host of a Fifth Hour with along
with my trustee sidekick David Gascon. Would mean a lot
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Speaker 5 (10:06):
You're asking, what in God's name is the Fifth Hour?
Speaker 6 (10:09):
I'll tell you it's a spin off of that Ben
Maler show, a cult hit overnights on FSR.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Why should you listen? Picture if you will a world will?
Speaker 6 (10:16):
We chat with captains of industry in media, sports and
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Speaker 5 (10:22):
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Listen to The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller or the
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Speaker 5 (10:27):
Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Last night in a pivotal game, game fives are always
very pivotal, and Nicola Jokics led the Denver Nuggets to
a victory one twelve to ninety seven over the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Game six tomorrow night back in Minnesota, but Denver Leeds
(10:51):
three to two. They were down two and so quite
a comeback by them to win the next three games.
But yo, kinch Rob was just spectacular. There's no other
way to That's the best way to describe him. Chris, Yes,
sphectim in those spectacular incredible forty points, thirteen assists, seven rebounds,
(11:15):
no turnovers. Chris said, there it is.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
We were talking about Kaitlin Clark with the more than
turnovers than Pillsbury. Could you imagine no turnovers with forty points, no.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Turnovers, and he's the primary ballham ballhams degree for them
fifteen for twenty two from the field and Rob, I
would saying the day on first things first, you know,
after they won the championship last year, I had him
rated as the seventh best center all time behind Kareem Russell,
(11:49):
Shaq Will, Elijahwan and Moses Malone. And I'm not just
doing this based on last night. It's everything watching him
and we'll see whether he wins the championship this year
or not. I'm moving in my head on my in
my list, I'm moving in my head of Moses Malone.
(12:10):
So now I've got him six and trying to chase
down Elajahwan to get in my top five, for what
that's worth. But the dude does everything. Robin last night
was I mean, all his skills were on display. Say,
he didn't rebound as well as usual, but you know
seven is a small number for him. You know that
(12:31):
is a small number. Chris.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I think there's a couple of things here, And it's
not people can It's not that you can have a
different opinion on who you want to vote for for
MVP and you come up with your point to whatever.
But some of the stuff that we heard last year
and this year almost like wanting to discredit him this year.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah, after they lost the first two games.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, after he lost the two games, I think people
were ready to pounce to say that he wasn't that guy,
that that oh they neutralized him.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Oh look, he can't do this.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Like after those first two games, I got a sense
that people were ready to say, okay, well he won
those three MVP, But I really don't know. Because he
never beat a team old with more than fifty wins,
there were always something.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
To hang over the to No, I get it.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Never be the playoff team. This will be the first
fifty win or fifty plus win playoff team, fifty or
better win playoff team that he beats him. It was
I didn't fish go ahead. I just didn't sense a
lot of like that. People were thinking he wasn't as
good as we thought.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
We had last year, Perkins saying that the only was
last year. No, but I just want to make the
point that he was a stat stuffer and he only
was winning MVPs because he was white and all kinds
of other stuff. That was just one guy, Okay, but
but it's a guy on the national platform.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I'm just talking about what he said. I mean, And
my issue was.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That this guy has put in a herculean effort and
if he does this, I said, I heard Colin on
our very radio network now talk about him being in
the top ten on his list. Chris, something I said
before this all the playoffs started. I said, if he
wins it the third and MVP in four years and
(14:27):
they win another title, I'm gonna have him in my
top ten because that's the kind of resume he's put together.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And now he's turned it up even.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
A bigger degree because he was down two on the
Ropes losing two games at home and everybody and he
didn't play that great. He played okay in one game
and not great the other. They got blown out embarrassed
in game two at home. And for him to turn
that around, for them to be as dominant as they can,
(14:55):
when everybody thought that the Timberwolves had their number and
they had the formula to neutralize them and all this
other stuff, and for him to beat this dominant in
the next three games, I think they're gonna close it
out and Minnesota won't win another game. And if this
propels them to that back to back championship, which I
(15:16):
think they're going to get, I don't care who comes
out of the East. I believe this team is gonna
win an ALE championship. And I just where they are
and whatnot, and I just and to me, it's hard.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I don't know what it'll take for people.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Even with Shack's comments that he didn't think he deserved it,
which is fine, I said, it's his opinion, that's fine.
I just think that there's people were waiting and hoping.
Now that's just the way I read the room. I
could be totally wrong. I got the sense after they
fell behind two, and everybody wrote them off. They wrote
(15:53):
them off out of disrespect to him, that he wasn't
going to be able to turn it around. He wasn't
going to be able to regroup against that team. Chris,
even you said they look like a suburban team playing
a team.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
From the hood.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
It looks like they would being I'm just saying, like,
I'm just saying your analogy.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Look like, I'm not running from that analogy.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But but but I think I think there was a
bit of that, and now people are having to rethink that,
and I think he's here to stay.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
This dude is here, say Rob, I'm talking about I
think you're overstating the hate. No, I think the hate
is real. You think somebody thought he wasn't here to
state if they would have lost, who thought he wasn't here?
They would have lost this series?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Chris being coming off the championship, Yes, had they been
with had they been swept, that maybe he ain't that guy.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
He ain't no top ten player.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
How did you win a championship player?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yet? Okay, you're nine years old.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
No, I'm talking about I'm just saying, I think you're
way overstating now, people writing off the Nuggets. No, they
weren't running off him.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
There's nobody else, say say, there's nobody else on that
team that's an All Star. They were writing him off.
They were writing off the Nuggets. They were saying he
couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Okay, can I say you've said your case. I'm a rebutted.
Even if their team were to lose the series, that
doesn't mean you're not saying he's a great player. I mean,
anybody that would say yo, if they had gotten swept,
anybody who would have fixed their mouth to say he's
(17:32):
not great would have been out of their minds seriously,
and to write him off forever. He's twenty nine years old,
he's got a I mean, he got another ten years
if he wants it to play. He's got another at
least six or seven, if not more, to be dominant.
(17:53):
So I don't know, I just think you're way over
state now. Saying his team would lose doesn't mean you're
saying he's not great. You know how many times Shaq
was swept. Shack was swept like six times, I think.
I mean, and when the year Shaq didn't win the championship,
that didn't mean he wasn't great. The years Lebron didn't
win the championship, that didn't mean he wasn't great. So
(18:17):
I just think you're going overboard. If you want to
say people wrote off the Nuggets, fine, and they did,
and I did, but the same people. I certainly wasn't
thinking Jokics wasn't great. And I don't know any I
can't think of anybody in their right mind that would
say if they got swept in this series, he wasn't great.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
They were ready to pounce on that guy who they.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Bring up pick Perkins? Hold on, you bring up Kendrick
Perkins from a year more than a year ago before
Yokish won his last his first championship.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
No, I'm talking about a different conquests.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I was there when the when the Pistons and and
and they beat Shaq and Kobe even when they were
down in this series, Okay, everybody I remember. I was there,
Oh the Lakers when they lost Game one, okay.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And then Shacking.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
With this, I'm trying to make the point that they
didn't rule out Shack even.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Though they got three championship doesn't matter. He has won,
and they already were ruling them off. They were ruling.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
They were ruling him out because they wanted to and
they were hoping that this was gonna be a one
time championship, and he won't that guy.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
He's proven people that he was going to be able
to bounce back. You're just telling numbers are fantastic. His
play is unlike anything we've ever seen. He's invented the
point center position.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
And yet when he went down oh two, everybody threw
the toweling on him.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
They didn't it on the Nuggets, they on him.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
No, it's a team game. And you mentioned Shaq and Kobe,
Shack and Kobe. That's why people didn't write him off
because it wasn't shock. Like I said, We saw a
shot get swept time and time again.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You know, because you champions against the team Chris that
you said before the playoffs started, you didn't buy into
the Timberwolves because they were too young and they have
been on that road before.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That said. What I said is, let's see. Every every
time we talked to Antonio Daniels, I was like, let's see.
I want to see if OKC and Minnesota are for real.
Because they're young, they we gotta see something from them.
But my point is writing off the Nuggets. Is not
writing off the Kolonic like we're writing off the Lakers.
(20:40):
Does that mean we think Anthony Davis ain't no good?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
No, but we know Lebron can't win no championship till
That's why you write them off? Chris, you don't believe.
You don't believe Lebron's gonna win another championship?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Do you No?
Speaker 4 (20:52):
But okay, then that's writing him off. That's writing him.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That doesn't mean you're saying he's not a good play you.
I think people were saying, yogis goold. Know that what
people were saying and hoping and wishing was that he
got swimming a lot. I'm reading the room and I'm
reading the comments on how people bailed I don't player.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
They bailed on him as soon as as soon as
there was blood the championship. As soon as there was
blood in the water, they ran from him.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Oh they're gonna get swept. They're not that good.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
They've utilized, they are going to get swept. We rode
off Yiannis too. Does that mean people think he's not great?
I mean, sir, that's all I'm saying. If you want
to say people wrote off the Nuggets. They did people.
They rode off Yokic, he just won his third NVP
in four years.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
They still rode them off.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
As soon as there was one chink in the armor,
that one thing went wrong, they were down on to
Oh my god, look at them, they've they've got them
the magic formula.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
They neutralized them. Look how we talk. We talk about
him because he's not beating them by himself. I mean,
that's what I'm saying, Like it's a team game, rob
nobody was their years when Lebron was in his crime.
When we say he's not gonna win the championship, so
we thought he couldn't play anymore? We again, Yannis, we
(22:21):
were saying he's smack dab in the middle of his prime.
He wasn't gonna win it this year. Does that mean
we think he couldn't play? Did we think MBI was
gonna win it? No, I picked the Knicks to beat
him bid. Does that mean I think he can't play
or that he's not It wasn't worthy of his one MVP.
That's what I just don't I again, if you want
(22:42):
to say people underestimate the Nuggets, like you said, he
doesn't have another All Star teammate, So really, I mean,
I think people questioning the rest of those guys. It
was Jamal Murray's not having a great postseason other than
hitting the game winning shots. I mean, I just, I
(23:02):
just right, And again, you brought up Kendrick Perkins and
that was fine, But that's a whole different context. That
was before Jokic had won anything. So I just and
that was, you know, he brought in race. But I
don't know, I disagree. I don't think people were writing
off Jokic even as they thought this team might lose.
(23:23):
All right, eight seven, seven ninety nine on Fox What
are your thoughts? Rond says people were quick to write
off for trying to write off Nicola Jokic, Like there's
some type of I guess hate or I hate obviously
it's too strong, but some dislike of Yolkic. What they
don't want him to be the best guy in the league.
They don't want they don't want him to win. They
(23:45):
don't want him to be Then why don't they want
him to be the best player in the league.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports radio
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listen live.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
The Knicks are playing the Pacers in the other series,
and the Knicks up three to two, and Rob Jalen
Brunson has just been phenomenal. Neither you nor I think
he's a superstar. He may become one. We're not ready
to give it to him yet, but he is certainly
(24:22):
having a historic series in this series. After scoring forty
four last night with seven dimes, Rob he's averaging thirty
two points, five point eight assists on forty eight percent
shooting in this series. In the playoffs in general, his
numbers are about thirty five points a game. So he's
(24:45):
having a terrific postseason here. And here's what I want
to know. We all know that a couple of years
ago he was in Dallas, right and he was the
the Mavericks. Rob would not give him a five year,
(25:05):
fifty five million dollar contract. He ended up getting one
hundred million with the Knicks over four years, I believe
it was. But still, you know, not paid like a
superstar in Dallas. To think what they could have had
is just crazy. Now, look, they've got Kyrie Irving and
(25:27):
you know they're they got a chance or good chance.
Most people think they get at least to the conference.
Find some blunder though on their part. Yeah, because they're
paying Kyrie twice as much.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Right, it's not even the it's obviously the top talent
blossom even more. But the amount of money fifty five
is like not you could have You could have sinned
him and moved him if you want to, you.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Know what I mean, Or it's better yet signed him
and added you know, more pieces around.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Or I'm just saying if you wanted to move him,
like you still could have done that, like he was
a value piece.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Had fifty five million for the Knicks. Rob he got
four years, one hundred and four million. So here's his numbers.
Rob with the Dallas Mavericks. All of these years were
with Luca. So his first year he started sparingly. His
last year in Dallas he was like a full time starter.
(26:25):
He's kind of part time starter his first year off
the bench the next two years for the most part.
But anyway, nine points a game as a rookie. Eight
points a game is second year, twelve and a half
points a game is third year, and in his final
year in Dallas, Rob sixteen point three points a game.
In the playoffs, he averaged twenty one and a half points.
(26:46):
And that's when I remember Luca, I think, was out
a few of those games, and Brunson kind of emrged, like, Oh,
this guy's got a package on him and he's doing
some damage. And so here's what I want to ask you,
rob is Jalen Brunson's play this season and even last
(27:07):
season he averaged twenty four points a game. Uh, this season,
Robby was fifth in the MVP voting, probably gonna be
second team All NBA. I had him on my second
team All NBA.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
So are his.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Achievements in New York an indictment of Luka Doncic because
Luca was there with him and you saw none of
this from Brunson.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, it's an indictment that maybe you know, he Stemy's
other players because of his dominance with the ball, Chris and.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
What he does and and and and you.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Know what I mean. Kyrie's had some great games there, Chris.
But but are the other two nine point duds in
this series? Is that in an indictment or.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I don't think that's an indictment on Luke at all.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
You know, I'm just saying Kyrie, Yeah, like maybe just
not being aggressive. But my point is that sometimes someone
playing with somebody. It could be the same way that
maybe the Knicks found out that they don't need Julius Randall,
like you know, like Julius Randall, maybe Steimied Brunting a
(28:15):
little bit as well. I'm just saying, when you start
to look at people and why they're doing, what they
can do and what they're able to accomplish without having
somebody with the ball, I think that there's a case
that can be made.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
No, I think you make sense. Look, it's no secret
Luka Doncis is ball dominant, right, and I think that's
a weakness. I think that's a that in my Jordan
versus Lebron debate, one of my criticisms I guess of
Lebron is that he's too you know, in his prime.
(28:49):
He's not so much as much now, but in his
prime he was too ball dominant. And when one guy's
dominating the action the ball and making the decisions for
everybody and you know he's gonna shoot or put the
ball in the hands of the guy that's gonna shoot,
I think that can limit some of the players and
I think it's hard to win that way, and I
(29:09):
think that's why, I mean Lebron's had a hard time
winning championships Rob. I mean, four is great, but it's
in twenty one years, and a lot of them have
been or two of them at least were really hard
to come by, right the Warriors where you come back
three to one, and the Spurs, you know when Ray
Allen hit the big shot in game six, and so
(29:31):
I think with Luca it's similar. A lot of people
compare Luca Rob to James Harden. Obviously he hasn't won
a championship now came close. We gotta be fair to
Harden the year, you know, he and Chris Paul were
up three to two and Chris Paul gets hurt. Harden
couldn't close out against Golden State, but they did come close,
(29:53):
but obviously never got over the hump, right, And I
do think Look, I think Kyrie Rob is able to
play with Luca and excel with Luca, and he was
able to excel with Lebron because Kyrie is unique in
that for a guy that has his bag and his
(30:13):
bag is one of the greatest in the history of
the game and can create his own stuff. He also
Rob is a great catch and shoot player, and that's
the difference. He is a great jump shooter. Brunson needs
the ball. You watch the Knicks. Rob Brunson's got the
ball in his hands all the time, and so with
(30:33):
Luca he had to kind of be off the ball,
and that's just not He's not going to shine that way.
And I think this postseason Rob for Luca, this is
kind of a litmus test. I've said, I don't think
you win championships that way. I think they need to
figure out how to play more five man basketball. Now.
(30:57):
They've been better in the part because Kyrie can be
that second guy off the ball and still get his
twenty five plus points. But if they don't and I
don't think they can beat Denver, Rob, I think they could.
I would pick Minnesota if they meet Dallas in the
Congerence finals, but I think Dallas would have a great
(31:17):
chance to win. But I don't think they have a
good chance to beat Denver. And if they don't get
to the finals this year, Rob, they might look at
it as hey, we got close, you know, we just
need to tweak here or there. But I would think
that I just think when you move the ball, when
you get everybody involved, Rob, that's just a better brand
(31:39):
of basketball. And you know, you look at the great
teams Rob, the Showtime Lakers, it was five man basketball,
even though you had the great Magic Johnson a point guard.
The Bird Celtics, same thing. Jordan Rob for all, he
shot a lot, but that ball was moved and Jordan
(32:01):
wasn't ball dominant. You know, he didn't dribble out the
clock a lot. He did earlier. He had the ball
in his hands more before Jackson got there, Phil Jackson.
And then they started winning when they started, you know,
popping that ball around Steph obviously, Golden State, the Spurs
who gave the Heat so much trouble, they lot of
(32:21):
ball movement Denver Rob. Even though Jokic is obviously, you know,
the one that makes everything happen and his players are
running through him, he doesn't hold the ball a lot.
He's giving it up quickly, you know, a little handoffs
and screens or passes. And I just think that if
(32:42):
Luca wants to win to the level that his talent
says he should Rob, if they don't, you know, get
to the finals this year, I think that's something some
type of offense. Dallas should really look at institution. So
you just I do think Brunson's are somewhat of an
indictment Luca.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, what if they don't? What if they lose this series, Chris,
would that change your mind at all? Or if Dallas
uses this Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean it would be what I'm saying, like,
I just think that they need to figure out a
way to kind of not be so Luca centric. I mean,
he's gonna be your best player, he's gonna be a
leading scorer. And the Nuggets are you know, Yokic centric.
But still the ball. Everybody's touching the rock, the ball,
and he you know what, Chris, he gives up the
(33:28):
ball of somebody. Absolutely, he does know he is not
he's on dominant at all, even though he's touching it
on every possession. Rob, he's not ball dom He's getting
rid of it quickly. And this is the thing. When
you see Michael Porter Junior going off or KCP or
Jamal you don't you don't think, wow, this is odd
(33:50):
or wow they taking a lot of shots that that's
how they play and that's fine. And it was the
same thing with the Birds and magic teams, and that's
why I compare you to them. And yet if it's
if it was one of Lebron's great teams, Rob or
uh Dallas, if somebody other than Luca or Kyrie's going
(34:12):
off or with Lebron, if somebody else was going off
other than him or maybe Wade, it was a bit surprising.
It was a bit like, wow, look at that, you know,
because you're not you were used to seeing one of
those two kind of do everything. And so I don't
think it's an indictment on Luca's ability and talent and
(34:33):
greatness what Brunson is doing, but I do think it's
it could be an indictment on their his style of play,
and I think it would be something that Dallas should
try to fix because he's in year six, Rob and
you can get it can become there'll be a point
maybe some people might think we're already there where that's
the only way he can really play.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And Chris just some numbers real quick, brunting a juice's
rape thirty six point five in these playoffs. For some context,
Jordan in his career, juss rate was thirty five point
five in the playoffs and Luca's career playoff Uss Ray
Chris thirty seven point five.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Who's Luca thirty seven five?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
And you so short?
Speaker 3 (35:18):
There's no way that Luca and Brunton can coexist to
play together.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Thirty six and a half and thirty seven and a half.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
That's one of the indictments of this generation, or really
the previous generation of players. You have so many ball
dominant guys and it's hard to put ball dominant guys together.
Wade and Lebron both ball dominant. It worked because they
were just both so great, and Wade did step back
the second, third, and fourth seasons, you know, to try
(35:47):
to win, and they did win too. And usage rate
rob also takes into consideration shots, and that's why Jordan's
usage rate is high because, like I said, he did
shoot a lot. Nobody would say didn't. But he didn't dribble,
he didn't dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble the air
out of the ball. And that's the difference. That's a
(36:08):
lot different. Shooting a lot is a lot different than
dribbling the shot clock down and then making a play.
So that's why I don't think Jordan's usage rate is
this similar. You know, I know it is numerically, but
in essence, I don't think it's similar to like Jokic
or Brunson now or any of that
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