May 5, 2025 • 29 mins
Rob and Kelvin discuss how the Baltimore Ravens’ decision to release embattled All-Pro kicker Justin Tucker serves as a friendly reminder that NFL teams will only put up with a player’s problems if his production level is still high, debate whether or not Steph Curry’s performance in Game 7 against the Houston Rockets can be considered ‘clutch’ and argue over whether James Harden’s NBA postseason foibles should be enough to keep him out of the Hall of Fame.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
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Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Big news of the day, even though it is the
NBA postseason, leave it to the NFL to steal the
headlines once again. That is because the Baltimore Ravens earlier
today released eight time All Pro statistically the greatest kicker
in NFL history, justin Tucker. He is now no longer
with the Baltimore Ravens. This should come as no surprise.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'll still say Adam Veniti because he made so many
big cakes. I'm not saying I know what you're talking
about statistically, but Adam, there's no Tom Brady without.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Those three Super Bowl winning kick That's fair, right, Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
So the reason why this shouldn't come in surprise to
you if you're a football fan. Number one, the Ravens
drafted a kicker in the draft, so you kind of
saw this coming. But number two, and probably most importantly,
Justin Tucker has been accused of inappropriate behavior by sixteen
different massage therapists from eight different Baltimore areas.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
There is a cloud.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hanging over the Tucker name right now, and as a result,
he is no longer a member of the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
Are you sure about that? Because that's not the way
they positioned it, rob Ge. They kind of positioned it. Oh,
you know, roster's full. We gotta make tough roster decisions.
And you know they didn't positioned it like that, Robs.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
They don't have to position it like that, because a
there's a couple of ways that they're get squeezed. Uh
squiz what No, I was gonna say squirming out of this,
and now I'm trying to say squirming out of this.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
They have a couple of weeks. Ay, he cast him
about three games play year.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
He was bad, And maybe it was because he knew
the other shoe was going to drop, and he was
waiting and waiting, you know what I mean? And I
do believe that that's part of it. And then they
did go out and drive somebody else, and I think
that's why they're able to do that and say it's
a football decision because he didn't play that well last year.
But there's no doubt in my mind that this is
(02:22):
over the cloud hanging over his head, which is massage gate.
This is all about massage gate, and I don't understand it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I really don't. And you know, he came out.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Remember when the story came out from the paper, because
it's not the Baltimore Son, it's like another paper that
people didn't know about. Remember we had talked about this.
I said, let me tell you something the printed word.
I said, a no story, and go through lawyers before
they put that accusing a man of a situation like that. Okay,
so that story was ve They went through everything. They
(03:02):
have all the logs when they told him he was
not welcomed there. It's all documented. It's not even like,
oh yeah, he came by and we thought he was
a freak and we told him to leave. No, it's
documented what they told him, what date when they told
him not to come back, and that his behavior was inappropriate,
and so on and so on and so on.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Anyway, he claimed that it had nothing to do.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know that this was false and made up or whatever,
and the Ravens just this too much. So then there's
always this dilemma, is it morality morals versus football?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Where are you?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Here's a guy who is very inappropriate with women. Is
that who you want to wear your uniform? Represent your organization? Right,
because it's not just you, And there's been times when
they've turned their heads for people.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Who are stars.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And don't forget Kobe was involved in a rape case
and play and continue to play. That would never happen today.
But he's flying on the Lakers team, playing back and
forth to games. He went suspended by the league like
it was and you're innocent into proven guilty, no doubt.
But you could also say it's time to step back
and let me handle this and get my name cleared,
(04:21):
and then I'll come back, kind of like where Shannon
shot right, Like the same thing. He's still doing his
own entity, right, That's how I guess he lives and
feels like. But he works for Disney and works for
somebody else and with ESPN rather than have them tell him,
let's take a let's just take a pause, I mean,
and then we'll come back and and hopefully it's just
(04:42):
settled and I can resume my analyst job in that case.
But I guess my point is I applaud the Baltimore
Ravens because at some point, just because you can play
ball should not be the reason why an organization should
(05:06):
accept behavior and allow you to continue. Doesn't mean that
you can't go work somewhere else, but we would rather
you not work here. And that's really what it is.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
They didn't.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
They didn't make a It wasn't a damnation like, oh
he did this and we there's nothing there about that
they know of the investigation, but they didn't go that far.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I'm called with it. I have no issues. My only
issue is.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Or it would have been a more interesting conversation had
we seen what you're referring to see. If this were
justin Tucker of three years ago and this comes out
where he's, as Rob g said, best kicker ever. He's
just amazing, mister Klutch, you know what, He's gonna make
all these big kicks, then they would have been amazing
to see. Had they said, you know what, this is
too much. We're gonna move forward. But it's easier to
(05:53):
do now because he sucked last season and he's older
and it's easier to move on because all this drama.
I would have been more compelled to be like, Wow,
the Baltimore Ravens really mean business on a moral level
had they did this, like I said, two, three, four
years ago, when he was still in his peak, still
in his prime.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, but this wasn't available to them. But I'm right,
So I'm saying it doesn't easier. So I'm saying it's
easier to do so now. And I think historically in
the NFL, what we have seen is the opposite. We've
seen where you can name the thing where the guys
using drugs, selling drugs, beating women, throwing women on guns,
Greg Hardy, and they continue to get work. And you've
heard me say this, and you will hear me say
(06:31):
until I feel proven the other way, you can do
anything as long as you don't kneel.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
That was the one thing you could.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
But I can give you a great example of somebody
who was in his prime, who had just won a
cy young and he cannot get work in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Trevor Bauer. Oh yeah, but I'm talking about NFL.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, But I'm saying, like Trevor Bauer, the Dodgers you
know how much money they ate and the whole case
and whatnot. You know, there's all kinds of murky and
he never got charged or whatever it was.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
But Dodgers still, you know what I mean, You know
what Trevor Bower though, No, I'm just he's these most
people perceive, I'm they dislike him. No, he's very difficult.
Yeah he's good, he's Sally could have been a road
and I'm just saying, but but but but he won
to saw Young just the year before and the hours went
down once some balls wasn't juiced to you know what
i mean.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So that's another whole thing with him.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
But absolutely Trevor Bauer, he was like, I'm not gonna
put up with that guy and put our name out
here in a reputation for guy we don't even know.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And I'm not surprised, like the Dodgers to me, like
that organ you're not wearing our uniform with the organization
of Jackie Robins.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
And we'll eat the money they ate a lot of.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Money they did, But yeah, absolutely, just to get rid
of it. So so to conclude on this, the Baltimore Ravens,
to your point, have proven to be usually at least,
it seems a stand up organization. They haven't had a
bunch of you know, drama if you will. As he
knew he was there doing great things for a long time.
So they have proven to be that, and it becomes yeah, yeah,
(08:00):
it becomes very difficult though, because of the part we
just said, innocent into improving guilty, and that becomes challenging
for jobs and for businesses and organizations. Right, how do
I give them the leeway to go through the legality
of it? You mentioned Kobe with also saying this doesn't
look good for us? Is the difference, Kobe Bryant bad
(08:23):
as the situation once it was one person, he said,
she said, versus what is it sixteen people? In this
case it was thirty forty with Deshaun Watson, sixty with
Bill Cosby. I'm just saying, like the numbers are so winging.
I think when you get there, it ends up becoming
possibly a swear. There's smoke, there's fire.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So if there were one woman, maybe two, or just
one particular spot, we could say it was a misunderstanding,
so he said, she said, with one person, but you
cannot tell me that sixteen women on different places over
a four year people and they have all the documentary.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
All of it documented. We asked them not to come
here anymore. So then that tells me there's issue and
this is why they do it. But I do I
can at least understand from time to time where organizations
are right. Look, I don't know what to do. It's
one woman. He's telling us, it's just a lie. I
did not this. She's saying he did. How do we
handle that because we want to give him the Grayson
(09:15):
leeway to play it out. But on the flip side,
this looks bad, so it becomes very difficult. But when
you have sixteen folks, eight different locations, I think think
it makes it easier.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Choice.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Rob Parker and kelvin Washington weekdays at seven pm Eastern,
four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You want to talk about, you know, fudging a story
or over dramatizing, like even the headline for ESPN said
Steph Curry and Buddy heal because they couldn't. Because they
say they couldn't.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
They Buddy Love but they couldn't.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Just add Steph Curry advances the because they know that
that would not be the real story. So the Rockets
at home in the game seven, we get it. A
young team and all that. Kevin, when was the last
time they led in that game?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yesterday?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Do you know what the score was when they the
last time they led the Rockets? The Rockets, yes, third quarter,
first quarter, nineteen to seventeen.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I felt like it was a nip and tuck one.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
No, and then it was like sixty three sixty or something.
Actually led the game yep, one time nineteen seventy.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
And the reason why this game it was a.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Good movie, by the way, okay, nineteen seventeen, that was
a Bond movie.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
The reason why the Warriors got this win was simple.
Buddy Hill hit seven of his eight first eight three pointers.
He finished nine for eleven from three. Steph had nothing
to do with this. I know he had won fourteen
rob g fourteen points.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
In the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, okay, the seam was up by double. They were
garbage points. They weren't real points. Steph didn't play when
the game was on the line, when it was real.
He was like three points in the first half. What
was he one for seven shooting? That's when the game
was won. Why do we have to like massage the
(11:16):
story to make Steph a part of it and feel
good about it.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I'm not here making it up. I'm being honest.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yes, he had fourteen points, but none of them were clutch.
You have not a clutch shot. You're up on eleven.
I can make that shot. I can't make that for real,
But you get my point.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Not Ia say don't get carried away, but I get you.
I'm getting carried away.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, why oh why do we have to do that?
And at some point when you talk about clutch, how
in the world could you rank this as a clutch performance?
It just do's nothing clutch about it. It's stat padding,
(12:02):
That's what it is. Okay, I'm not mad. Somebody's gonna
make a shot, but but come on, clutch. Oh, his
clutch fourth quarter performance wrapped it up for the Warriors.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Really double digits. You get my point. Listen, listen.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Anybody who watched the game knows the star of the
game who saved the game was Buddy Hill.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
There's nowhere I do it because you're you're on the road.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Got them off to a great start, yep, And he
every time you feel like Houston might do something. He
made a huge shot, so you got absolutely. I mean,
when Buddy Hill is giving you thirty seven minutes and
Dagner has the same amount of points thirty three, that's
a huge, huge, huge performance. And also he played some
really good defense as well. You gotta respect Buddy Hill's
defense in that game as well. Here's where I would
(12:46):
disagree with you, and I had to come to this
conclusion some you know, years ago. It will never stop
show up in the stat sheet. But the one thing
Steph Curry does, aside from just simply being the greatest shooter,
is that he gets assists by simply existing on the court.
I know you're not, but let me digress, let me
(13:07):
die and break it down. There were so many times
in that game where they literally were playing alive boxing
one or all eyes on Steph, and so everybody's looking
at Steph. Everybody's eyes are on Steph, and Buddy Hill
was able to sneak away from.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
His defender and get open.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
They would fight him for three If you watch it,
a lot of his was based off little two or
three steps to his right because his defenders watching step
watching Steph turn around, and he just lost sight of
Buddy Hill.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
So that would make the case that they should win
every game then because they're all on Steph and everybody.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Else's well when Buddy Hills hitting like that, they might.
But my point is, so I'm with you that Steph
absolutely did not. He's not the reason they won the game.
You can't even use the word clutching the but I will.
I will give you a clutch perse. I mean, what
else could it be? I mean, I like, that's the
only thing that could have been Claw. That was a
(14:01):
good one. So that's my thing. His simply being out there,
his running around, spaces the floor for other players, and
you hope, finally a guy like Buddy Hilt can have
a Klay Thompson like game when Clay was Game six
Clay and all that and have that.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And that's what he did.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
So I will give Steph Curry credit for the history
of him allowing for defenses to focus on him and
guys can benefit from that.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
That's a fact on that.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
The other thing is we have to just acknowledge that
he's never gonna necessarily win game winners, but he is
gonna give you the Steph Curry flurry that buries another team,
and I have to just be okay with that. He
is one thousand percent never gonna give Rob Parker with
Rob is desiring, Rob wants too what and that's just
(14:49):
not gonna happen. I'm not saying not because he plays
another two, three, four years. Obviously he can make one.
But I'm saying he won't have a history of those.
What do I have a history of? His team is
up five, his team is up eight after being up
eighteen or twenty. You're making a comeback? Three three, three,
night night, put the kids to bed. He'll do that.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
So the Steph Curry flurry that will bury a team.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Is absolutely real and we just have to accept that
that is his clutch. I'm a ice the game put
it away, were so far out of reach that you
can't get back, or if we were making a comeback,
we meaning the Warriors, I'm gonna be the reason why
why what?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Now we're up?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Can I give you some numbers during the game, this
previous game, this is the game. Seven h thirteen of
the twenty two Curry points came while the Warriors were
up double digit.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, I don't I don't disagree.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Zero of his twenty two points came when the game
was within three points in sort, none of his baskets
came when the game was tight.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
More overre you ready, yep, Curry, it's still say moreover,
it's about to be real.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yes, oh, for sixteen in his career on shots to
tie or take the lead in the last fifty seconds,
in in the fourth quarter and overtime in the playoffs,
that's not a.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Shot to Kevin Love. Okay, you hey defended him Game seven,
But that's not a small sample. Would you say, sixteen shots,
you would hope you'd make five of them? Say nobody.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Nobody expect exactly, Nobody saying, oh, how come he to
make eight or nine of them? No, you gotta give
me four or five? You gotta give me four. You're
you're considered by some of the greatest shooter. I'm okay,
But but he hasn't made a shot like that.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
That matters.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
I'm telling you. He's created a new thing. Rob You
gotta deal with it. It's the new thing. It's the
Steph Curry flurry. It's like uh, little Richard rob Ge.
He hits you with a whp bah blah loo bah
but wa wp bamboo and it's just blah blah blah blah,
three three three, and that's it. You get to Steph Curry,
you creeping back in the game. You're now your team
is down fifteen, your crowd's going crazy. Rob.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Now he says, I have an old reference. I want
you to go back to this. Okay, can we can
we please? The next time you say I have on.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
The wow, I can't get one. No, can't get one.
As a forty three year old, No, you cannot. I
can't get one. Man, I'll tell you.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Why are you going the memes? Ever, there's one of
the great Somebody google the meme and then tweet us. Okay,
I'm serious. There's a meme with a black man, probably
mid upper fifties, and he's working ts as a real guy,
and he's got the most little Richard haredoo And somebody said,
when you got a nine to five, but you gotta
wipe by Blue Bob after it.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
You have to.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
It's freaking hilarious. If you know what I'm talking about,
saving me that means so I can show Rob. That's
the Steph Curry running back Mary. You making a comeback.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Rob.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
This is what happens. There was no fam boot, there
was no comeback. Come What was the couse?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
You think, all right? We only down ten? We got
eight minutes down, We got eight minutes. That's nothing in
the NBA.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
There's no pressure there and there's not what I'm saying.
Did you see the Olympics, that's what he does. No,
the Olympics. Only one of those shots, Rob g we
went over it, didn't we did you analyze it?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
We analyzed only one of those.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
You know this, Reggie Miller, Damian Lillard, Chauncey Bhillips, Michael Jordan,
Larry Bird, who if I didn't already name it, ye
Ray Allen, there's like Jory sure that I'm taking over
him to take the last second shot, Kyrie. But if
you're saying we need a flurry like my man I
(18:29):
used to work with when I was fifteen years old,
and he couldn't say mc flurry. He had he had
his accent. He would like make fleody. He would always say,
Steph Curry comes with the mcfleody.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
That's racist. That's how he said it. Where what Rob,
Where'd you get that from? What you mean? Mary Mack
to even look it up? How does she even know
where to go just like that one years old.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Okay, but it's little Richard. Okay, Mary, hear me with
that one more time. This is what happens.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Curry for three, hit it? Thank you what that's my
new thing.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Roight Jay game one when he goes crazy, get it ready?
If he hits three four threes in a row, that's
exactly what happens.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Call and Steph Curry, Clutch, Curry, Tudy Fruity. I'm gonna
just tell.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
You Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup
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Speaker 1 (19:39):
James Harden and then we talked about it just two
for eight, awful game.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
You know, just expect more.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And and as we talk about Steph, we talked about
the zero for sixteen or whatever, and certain one James
Han just doesn't play well in big games, in these
big games, and the history playoffs period is there. I mean,
there's no denying it. It's just unbelievable how a guy
who was so prolific at one time when he was
with the Rocket prolific doubt.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I mean, one of the ridiculous of weapons I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I agree, And I remember seeing him in the early
stage with Okay, see when he's coming off the bench
and shooting. That year that they ran to the finals
and then they lost. I thought to myself, my god,
who is this guy? Like I really, I was like this,
James Harden is crazy.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Like they keep getting guys. Right, they found KD, then
they find.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Three guys like that. Yeah, on the same Hall of Famers,
all with the m vps. Uh uh oh wait, am
I wrong? Did I speak too fast?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yes, that's the point that you made hold up when
you talk about I'm sorry, and I'm not being a
prisoner of the moment, but James Harden.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Is not a Hall of Famer. To me, this is crazy.
He's not crazy.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I'm dead serious, like at some point, and here's my
issue with just putting people in and I'm not And
let's let's talk about rob G.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
The parameter we're talking about like.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Criteria, criteria, like the NBA Career Hall of Fame, not
the Basketball of Fame.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm done with that. I don't like, I'm not paying
to take I don't think he has anything that would no.
But you know what, I'm saying you play, you play,
you play a long time.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You're in the Olympics, like they start adding on right,
that's so they'll say, wow, but he played why remember
that one in college? And yeah and all that and
before you know he's in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Just NBA, I'm with what you got. Here's why.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I would say no, is that there's gotta be more
than just compiling numbers. Okay, because numbers are important, but
it should also be in context. That's why teams. Guys
who play on bad teams would just score a lot
of points. They don't get any recognition because you know,
a you're not winning and be somebody has to score
(21:54):
because it's a game. Do you know it can't be
one thirty five to somebody's got somebody right, somebody's got
a score, like this is the game. So you can't
look at that always getting buckets. Man, I don't know
the Wizards can't win, but you getting dude, Somebody's got
to score the points.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
So that's just not enough.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
And if you're putting James Harden, who hadn't done anything
so to speak, even that one with the Rockets when
they would miss twenty seven straight threes. I don't know
how many he missed in that Remember that twenty seventh
straight yep, that like that's James Harden's career almost like
that one sequence or stretch there which sums it up.
(22:35):
And my only point is, if James Harden goes in
with this abysmal postseason albatross hanging on his net, where
do you actually put into people who actually have played
well and have won you know what I mean, and scored.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
When their points.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Again, there needs to be a like a hall of
fame in the Hall of Fame, like the like all right,
then with this wing here.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Do you know what I'm saying? Like that, Like that's
what a Hall of Famer should be. And I've said
this to you with baseball and with my vote. I
don't vote for any other Hall of Fame, just baseball.
If I have to debate your career, you're not a
Hall of Famer to me. And I know that sound
like we should Isaiah Thomas, like like this is what
(23:24):
I'm this, it should be of that ilk If I
have to debate, well, you know, if he would have
had a good coach, well, if he would have had
a good robin, well, if he would have had uh
this or that, or he had a better owner and
they got a better generalman.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Like you could make the sit that case for a
lot of people, and.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You should be like, like, what would be what would
what would James harden your push or your reason to
put him in standing on?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
What? What exactly did he do.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
That separated him from his peers during his time playing?
And I can't come up with anything other than having
his jersey retired at a strip club.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Other than that, I don't know of anything.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I'm gonna be honest with you. I thought that alone
would get him in your Hall of Fame. I thought you.
I thought it would be in dispute, like we are
absolutely not even gonna have this conversation. I thought we
were planning the show that you were gonna be like,
this is the stupidest convo ever that you would automatically
have him in there if we.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Were talking, of course, a groundbreaking moment, but not in basketball.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
We did this with Carmelo, and I think they're similar
in that their offensive well.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Do you weren't here for that? Yeah, but while Carmelo
on his.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Same just NBA mayor not the Olympics and not obviously
a national title run. So those things for one hundred
percent put him in the difference. For me, why I'm
more even more in favor of James Hard a couple
of reasons. One one of the things we're saying, Okay,
Carmelo has a bunch of All Star appearances, and I
think maybe he had won All NBA. James Harden has
seven All nbas seven. He's also a three time scoring champ,
(25:04):
and this is the kind of the separator two time
assists champs, so that means you are a scar machine
and you'll be dropping dimes. He was also a sixth
Man of the Year. He was a one time MVP.
Carmela was never an MVP, and we all know he
could have had one or two more Like that's how
good he was. There was a five to six year
(25:26):
period where if he was VP every one of those
usually I mean, I can't be mad at that. He
has a bunch of playoff appearances, and so it means
like he wasn't just good and teams were terrible. He
was always in the playoffs. He just had shortcomings in
the playoffs. I agree with that he left a lot
to be desired. I ain't lying about that. Okay, let
me give you this. You I would agree.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Harden has thirty five three five thirty five career playoff
games with less than four buckets made.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
They just listen to what I just told you. Not
ten game, not five. I ain't gonna lie that thirty
five game. Is that dubious? I'm hanging on. Okay, that's dubious.
All right, here we go. Here's receding hairline right now.
I'm hanging on by thread.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Hardness scored fewer than twenty points in twelve of his
twenty six career elimination games, including seven of his last thirteen.
For context, I'll give you that. Lebron, Steph and KD
have done it twice and it combined, right, sixty games,
(26:30):
sixty elimination game. Just think about that. Those three guys
have scored fewer than twenty points twice combined in sixty
in six zero eliminate. He's done it twelve times in
twenty six eleven. Just think about that. That's crazy. But
here's the thing that's my vote against.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
So he is in. He would be in the U R.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Hall of Fameer wing tie game by the Knicks just
tied the game, crazy like a thirty two to six
run or something crazy. Right now, Celtics should be ashamed
of themselves. This is what happens when you miss threes.
And the Celtics are an amazing team twelve for forty
seven ago right there, and this is what happens now
(27:17):
you forgot how to get other shots. Look at them,
they don't even know how to get offense right now.
Without threes, struggle bus, struggle bus, they best run and
lose a game. So, but James Harden has done too
much for me not to call him Hall of Famer,
a Hall of the disappointment in the playoffs without a doubt,
that goes.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Along with the records.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
The only other issue I have with the flip side
of this is, so then guys like Robert Lorri, Derek
Fisher or you know, Jimmy Butler, guys like that need
to be in the Hall of Fame because of the postseason,
Like if full.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Body of work isn't good enough, they weren't Robert how
many times it was Robert Orriy first team.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Is my guy and I don't think he should be in.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
I'm not arguing that, but what I'm saying is if
we're gonna just the vibe like, all right, here's postseason.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It's your count regulars it should count.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But I'm just saying That'll know, you made a couple
of shots in the postseason, but you were a bench
player your whole career. Are you didn't make any first
team All nbas or you know what I mean? Like
you didn't win an MVP. You never let.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Like like no, it has to be really good.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Regular great great regular season, and then moments not James
Harden has to win ten championships.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Moment he has failed you. But he is too.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
He's literally in my lifetime and you know how much
I've watched it. Jordan Kareem, you know two three other
guys as far as what Steph Curry, as far as
just the exposive weapons, like not just all guy can score.
There's plenty of guys who can score there, Dominique Wilkins
and Bernard King is a bunch of guys, but just
an offensive weapon. Man, he might be the best of
(28:52):
his generation in that regard. He and I can't not
put that guy who could have been an MVP two, three,
four times in the Hall of Fame.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're listening to the best of the Odd Couple.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Big news of the day, even though it is the
NBA postseason, leave it to the NFL to steal the
headlines once again. That is because the Baltimore Ravens earlier
today released eight time All Pro statistically the greatest kicker
in NFL history, justin Tucker. He is now no longer
with the Baltimore Ravens. This should come as no surprise.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'll still say Adam Veniti because he made so many
big cakes. I'm not saying I know what you're talking
about statistically, but Adam, there's no Tom Brady without.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Those three Super Bowl winning kick That's fair, right, Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
So the reason why this shouldn't come in surprise to
you if you're a football fan. Number one, the Ravens
drafted a kicker in the draft, so you kind of
saw this coming. But number two, and probably most importantly,
Justin Tucker has been accused of inappropriate behavior by sixteen
different massage therapists from eight different Baltimore areas.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
There is a cloud.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hanging over the Tucker name right now, and as a result,
he is no longer a member of the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
Are you sure about that? Because that's not the way
they positioned it, rob Ge. They kind of positioned it. Oh,
you know, roster's full. We gotta make tough roster decisions.
And you know they didn't positioned it like that, Robs.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
They don't have to position it like that, because a
there's a couple of ways that they're get squeezed. Uh
squiz what No, I was gonna say squirming out of this,
and now I'm trying to say squirming out of this.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
They have a couple of weeks. Ay, he cast him
about three games play year.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
He was bad, And maybe it was because he knew
the other shoe was going to drop, and he was
waiting and waiting, you know what I mean? And I
do believe that that's part of it. And then they
did go out and drive somebody else, and I think
that's why they're able to do that and say it's
a football decision because he didn't play that well last year.
But there's no doubt in my mind that this is
(02:22):
over the cloud hanging over his head, which is massage gate.
This is all about massage gate, and I don't understand it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I really don't. And you know, he came out.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Remember when the story came out from the paper, because
it's not the Baltimore Son, it's like another paper that
people didn't know about. Remember we had talked about this.
I said, let me tell you something the printed word.
I said, a no story, and go through lawyers before
they put that accusing a man of a situation like that. Okay,
so that story was ve They went through everything. They
(03:02):
have all the logs when they told him he was
not welcomed there. It's all documented. It's not even like,
oh yeah, he came by and we thought he was
a freak and we told him to leave. No, it's
documented what they told him, what date when they told
him not to come back, and that his behavior was inappropriate,
and so on and so on and so on.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Anyway, he claimed that it had nothing to do.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know that this was false and made up or whatever,
and the Ravens just this too much. So then there's
always this dilemma, is it morality morals versus football?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Where are you?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Here's a guy who is very inappropriate with women. Is
that who you want to wear your uniform? Represent your organization? Right,
because it's not just you, And there's been times when
they've turned their heads for people.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Who are stars.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And don't forget Kobe was involved in a rape case
and play and continue to play. That would never happen today.
But he's flying on the Lakers team, playing back and
forth to games. He went suspended by the league like
it was and you're innocent into proven guilty, no doubt.
But you could also say it's time to step back
and let me handle this and get my name cleared,
(04:21):
and then I'll come back, kind of like where Shannon
shot right, Like the same thing. He's still doing his
own entity, right, That's how I guess he lives and
feels like. But he works for Disney and works for
somebody else and with ESPN rather than have them tell him,
let's take a let's just take a pause, I mean,
and then we'll come back and and hopefully it's just
(04:42):
settled and I can resume my analyst job in that case.
But I guess my point is I applaud the Baltimore
Ravens because at some point, just because you can play
ball should not be the reason why an organization should
(05:06):
accept behavior and allow you to continue. Doesn't mean that
you can't go work somewhere else, but we would rather
you not work here. And that's really what it is.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
They didn't.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
They didn't make a It wasn't a damnation like, oh
he did this and we there's nothing there about that
they know of the investigation, but they didn't go that far.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I'm called with it. I have no issues. My only
issue is.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Or it would have been a more interesting conversation had
we seen what you're referring to see. If this were
justin Tucker of three years ago and this comes out
where he's, as Rob g said, best kicker ever. He's
just amazing, mister Klutch, you know what, He's gonna make
all these big kicks, then they would have been amazing
to see. Had they said, you know what, this is
too much. We're gonna move forward. But it's easier to
(05:53):
do now because he sucked last season and he's older
and it's easier to move on because all this drama.
I would have been more compelled to be like, Wow,
the Baltimore Ravens really mean business on a moral level
had they did this, like I said, two, three, four
years ago, when he was still in his peak, still
in his prime.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, but this wasn't available to them. But I'm right,
So I'm saying it doesn't easier. So I'm saying it's
easier to do so now. And I think historically in
the NFL, what we have seen is the opposite. We've
seen where you can name the thing where the guys
using drugs, selling drugs, beating women, throwing women on guns,
Greg Hardy, and they continue to get work. And you've
heard me say this, and you will hear me say
(06:31):
until I feel proven the other way, you can do
anything as long as you don't kneel.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
That was the one thing you could.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
But I can give you a great example of somebody
who was in his prime, who had just won a
cy young and he cannot get work in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Trevor Bauer. Oh yeah, but I'm talking about NFL.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, But I'm saying, like Trevor Bauer, the Dodgers you
know how much money they ate and the whole case
and whatnot. You know, there's all kinds of murky and
he never got charged or whatever it was.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
But Dodgers still, you know what I mean, You know
what Trevor Bower though, No, I'm just he's these most
people perceive, I'm they dislike him. No, he's very difficult.
Yeah he's good, he's Sally could have been a road
and I'm just saying, but but but but he won
to saw Young just the year before and the hours went
down once some balls wasn't juiced to you know what
i mean.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So that's another whole thing with him.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
But absolutely Trevor Bauer, he was like, I'm not gonna
put up with that guy and put our name out
here in a reputation for guy we don't even know.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And I'm not surprised, like the Dodgers to me, like
that organ you're not wearing our uniform with the organization
of Jackie Robins.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
And we'll eat the money they ate a lot of.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
Money they did, But yeah, absolutely, just to get rid
of it. So so to conclude on this, the Baltimore Ravens,
to your point, have proven to be usually at least,
it seems a stand up organization. They haven't had a
bunch of you know, drama if you will. As he
knew he was there doing great things for a long time.
So they have proven to be that, and it becomes yeah, yeah,
(08:00):
it becomes very difficult though, because of the part we
just said, innocent into improving guilty, and that becomes challenging
for jobs and for businesses and organizations. Right, how do
I give them the leeway to go through the legality
of it? You mentioned Kobe with also saying this doesn't
look good for us? Is the difference, Kobe Bryant bad
(08:23):
as the situation once it was one person, he said,
she said, versus what is it sixteen people? In this
case it was thirty forty with Deshaun Watson, sixty with
Bill Cosby. I'm just saying, like the numbers are so winging.
I think when you get there, it ends up becoming
possibly a swear. There's smoke, there's fire.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So if there were one woman, maybe two, or just
one particular spot, we could say it was a misunderstanding,
so he said, she said, with one person, but you
cannot tell me that sixteen women on different places over
a four year people and they have all the documentary.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
All of it documented. We asked them not to come
here anymore. So then that tells me there's issue and
this is why they do it. But I do I
can at least understand from time to time where organizations
are right. Look, I don't know what to do. It's
one woman. He's telling us, it's just a lie. I
did not this. She's saying he did. How do we
handle that because we want to give him the Grayson
(09:15):
leeway to play it out. But on the flip side,
this looks bad, so it becomes very difficult. But when
you have sixteen folks, eight different locations, I think think
it makes it easier.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Choice.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Rob Parker and kelvin Washington weekdays at seven pm Eastern,
four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You want to talk about, you know, fudging a story
or over dramatizing, like even the headline for ESPN said
Steph Curry and Buddy heal because they couldn't. Because they
say they couldn't.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
They Buddy Love but they couldn't.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Just add Steph Curry advances the because they know that
that would not be the real story. So the Rockets
at home in the game seven, we get it. A
young team and all that. Kevin, when was the last
time they led in that game?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yesterday?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Do you know what the score was when they the
last time they led the Rockets? The Rockets, yes, third quarter,
first quarter, nineteen to seventeen.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I felt like it was a nip and tuck one.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
No, and then it was like sixty three sixty or something.
Actually led the game yep, one time nineteen seventy.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
And the reason why this game it was a.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Good movie, by the way, okay, nineteen seventeen, that was
a Bond movie.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
The reason why the Warriors got this win was simple.
Buddy Hill hit seven of his eight first eight three pointers.
He finished nine for eleven from three. Steph had nothing
to do with this. I know he had won fourteen
rob g fourteen points.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
In the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, okay, the seam was up by double. They were
garbage points. They weren't real points. Steph didn't play when
the game was on the line, when it was real.
He was like three points in the first half. What
was he one for seven shooting? That's when the game
was won. Why do we have to like massage the
(11:16):
story to make Steph a part of it and feel
good about it.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I'm not here making it up. I'm being honest.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yes, he had fourteen points, but none of them were clutch.
You have not a clutch shot. You're up on eleven.
I can make that shot. I can't make that for real,
But you get my point.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Not Ia say don't get carried away, but I get you.
I'm getting carried away.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, why oh why do we have to do that?
And at some point when you talk about clutch, how
in the world could you rank this as a clutch performance?
It just do's nothing clutch about it. It's stat padding,
(12:02):
That's what it is. Okay, I'm not mad. Somebody's gonna
make a shot, but but come on, clutch. Oh, his
clutch fourth quarter performance wrapped it up for the Warriors.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Really double digits. You get my point. Listen, listen.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Anybody who watched the game knows the star of the
game who saved the game was Buddy Hill.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
There's nowhere I do it because you're you're on the road.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Got them off to a great start, yep, And he
every time you feel like Houston might do something. He
made a huge shot, so you got absolutely. I mean,
when Buddy Hill is giving you thirty seven minutes and
Dagner has the same amount of points thirty three, that's
a huge, huge, huge performance. And also he played some
really good defense as well. You gotta respect Buddy Hill's
defense in that game as well. Here's where I would
(12:46):
disagree with you, and I had to come to this
conclusion some you know, years ago. It will never stop
show up in the stat sheet. But the one thing
Steph Curry does, aside from just simply being the greatest shooter,
is that he gets assists by simply existing on the court.
I know you're not, but let me digress, let me
(13:07):
die and break it down. There were so many times
in that game where they literally were playing alive boxing
one or all eyes on Steph, and so everybody's looking
at Steph. Everybody's eyes are on Steph, and Buddy Hill
was able to sneak away from.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
His defender and get open.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
They would fight him for three If you watch it,
a lot of his was based off little two or
three steps to his right because his defenders watching step
watching Steph turn around, and he just lost sight of
Buddy Hill.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
So that would make the case that they should win
every game then because they're all on Steph and everybody.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Else's well when Buddy Hills hitting like that, they might.
But my point is, so I'm with you that Steph
absolutely did not. He's not the reason they won the game.
You can't even use the word clutching the but I will.
I will give you a clutch perse. I mean, what
else could it be? I mean, I like, that's the
only thing that could have been Claw. That was a
(14:01):
good one. So that's my thing. His simply being out there,
his running around, spaces the floor for other players, and
you hope, finally a guy like Buddy Hilt can have
a Klay Thompson like game when Clay was Game six
Clay and all that and have that.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And that's what he did.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
So I will give Steph Curry credit for the history
of him allowing for defenses to focus on him and
guys can benefit from that.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
That's a fact on that.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
The other thing is we have to just acknowledge that
he's never gonna necessarily win game winners, but he is
gonna give you the Steph Curry flurry that buries another team,
and I have to just be okay with that. He
is one thousand percent never gonna give Rob Parker with
Rob is desiring, Rob wants too what and that's just
(14:49):
not gonna happen. I'm not saying not because he plays
another two, three, four years. Obviously he can make one.
But I'm saying he won't have a history of those.
What do I have a history of? His team is
up five, his team is up eight after being up
eighteen or twenty. You're making a comeback? Three three, three,
night night, put the kids to bed. He'll do that.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
So the Steph Curry flurry that will bury a team.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Is absolutely real and we just have to accept that
that is his clutch. I'm a ice the game put
it away, were so far out of reach that you
can't get back, or if we were making a comeback,
we meaning the Warriors, I'm gonna be the reason why
why what?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Now we're up?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Can I give you some numbers during the game, this
previous game, this is the game. Seven h thirteen of
the twenty two Curry points came while the Warriors were
up double digit.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, I don't I don't disagree.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Zero of his twenty two points came when the game
was within three points in sort, none of his baskets
came when the game was tight.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
More overre you ready, yep, Curry, it's still say moreover,
it's about to be real.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yes, oh, for sixteen in his career on shots to
tie or take the lead in the last fifty seconds,
in in the fourth quarter and overtime in the playoffs,
that's not a.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Shot to Kevin Love. Okay, you hey defended him Game seven,
But that's not a small sample. Would you say, sixteen shots,
you would hope you'd make five of them? Say nobody.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Nobody expect exactly, Nobody saying, oh, how come he to
make eight or nine of them? No, you gotta give
me four or five? You gotta give me four. You're
you're considered by some of the greatest shooter. I'm okay,
But but he hasn't made a shot like that.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
That matters.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
I'm telling you. He's created a new thing. Rob You
gotta deal with it. It's the new thing. It's the
Steph Curry flurry. It's like uh, little Richard rob Ge.
He hits you with a whp bah blah loo bah
but wa wp bamboo and it's just blah blah blah blah,
three three three, and that's it. You get to Steph Curry,
you creeping back in the game. You're now your team
is down fifteen, your crowd's going crazy. Rob.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Now he says, I have an old reference. I want
you to go back to this. Okay, can we can
we please? The next time you say I have on.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
The wow, I can't get one. No, can't get one.
As a forty three year old, No, you cannot. I
can't get one. Man, I'll tell you.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Why are you going the memes? Ever, there's one of
the great Somebody google the meme and then tweet us. Okay,
I'm serious. There's a meme with a black man, probably
mid upper fifties, and he's working ts as a real guy,
and he's got the most little Richard haredoo And somebody said,
when you got a nine to five, but you gotta
wipe by Blue Bob after it.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
You have to.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
It's freaking hilarious. If you know what I'm talking about,
saving me that means so I can show Rob. That's
the Steph Curry running back Mary. You making a comeback.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Rob.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
This is what happens. There was no fam boot, there
was no comeback. Come What was the couse?
Speaker 4 (17:51):
You think, all right? We only down ten? We got
eight minutes down, We got eight minutes. That's nothing in
the NBA.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
There's no pressure there and there's not what I'm saying.
Did you see the Olympics, that's what he does. No,
the Olympics. Only one of those shots, Rob g we
went over it, didn't we did you analyze it?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
We analyzed only one of those.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
You know this, Reggie Miller, Damian Lillard, Chauncey Bhillips, Michael Jordan,
Larry Bird, who if I didn't already name it, ye
Ray Allen, there's like Jory sure that I'm taking over
him to take the last second shot, Kyrie. But if
you're saying we need a flurry like my man I
(18:29):
used to work with when I was fifteen years old,
and he couldn't say mc flurry. He had he had
his accent. He would like make fleody. He would always say,
Steph Curry comes with the mcfleody.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
That's racist. That's how he said it. Where what Rob,
Where'd you get that from? What you mean? Mary Mack
to even look it up? How does she even know
where to go just like that one years old.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Okay, but it's little Richard. Okay, Mary, hear me with
that one more time. This is what happens.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Curry for three, hit it? Thank you what that's my
new thing.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Roight Jay game one when he goes crazy, get it ready?
If he hits three four threes in a row, that's
exactly what happens.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Call and Steph Curry, Clutch, Curry, Tudy Fruity. I'm gonna
just tell.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
You Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR
to listen live.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
James Harden and then we talked about it just two
for eight, awful game.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
You know, just expect more.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And and as we talk about Steph, we talked about
the zero for sixteen or whatever, and certain one James
Han just doesn't play well in big games, in these
big games, and the history playoffs period is there. I mean,
there's no denying it. It's just unbelievable how a guy
who was so prolific at one time when he was
with the Rocket prolific doubt.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I mean, one of the ridiculous of weapons I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I agree, And I remember seeing him in the early
stage with Okay, see when he's coming off the bench
and shooting. That year that they ran to the finals
and then they lost. I thought to myself, my god,
who is this guy? Like I really, I was like this,
James Harden is crazy.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Like they keep getting guys. Right, they found KD, then
they find.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Three guys like that. Yeah, on the same Hall of Famers,
all with the m vps. Uh uh oh wait, am
I wrong? Did I speak too fast?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yes, that's the point that you made hold up when
you talk about I'm sorry, and I'm not being a
prisoner of the moment, but James Harden.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Is not a Hall of Famer. To me, this is crazy.
He's not crazy.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I'm dead serious, like at some point, and here's my
issue with just putting people in and I'm not And
let's let's talk about rob G.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
The parameter we're talking about like.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Criteria, criteria, like the NBA Career Hall of Fame, not
the Basketball of Fame.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm done with that. I don't like, I'm not paying
to take I don't think he has anything that would no.
But you know what, I'm saying you play, you play,
you play a long time.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You're in the Olympics, like they start adding on right,
that's so they'll say, wow, but he played why remember
that one in college? And yeah and all that and
before you know he's in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Just NBA, I'm with what you got. Here's why.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I would say no, is that there's gotta be more
than just compiling numbers. Okay, because numbers are important, but
it should also be in context. That's why teams. Guys
who play on bad teams would just score a lot
of points. They don't get any recognition because you know,
a you're not winning and be somebody has to score
(21:54):
because it's a game. Do you know it can't be
one thirty five to somebody's got somebody right, somebody's got
a score, like this is the game. So you can't
look at that always getting buckets. Man, I don't know
the Wizards can't win, but you getting dude, Somebody's got
to score the points.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
So that's just not enough.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
And if you're putting James Harden, who hadn't done anything
so to speak, even that one with the Rockets when
they would miss twenty seven straight threes. I don't know
how many he missed in that Remember that twenty seventh
straight yep, that like that's James Harden's career almost like
that one sequence or stretch there which sums it up.
(22:35):
And my only point is, if James Harden goes in
with this abysmal postseason albatross hanging on his net, where
do you actually put into people who actually have played
well and have won you know what I mean, and scored.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
When their points.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Again, there needs to be a like a hall of
fame in the Hall of Fame, like the like all right,
then with this wing here.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Do you know what I'm saying? Like that, Like that's
what a Hall of Famer should be. And I've said
this to you with baseball and with my vote. I
don't vote for any other Hall of Fame, just baseball.
If I have to debate your career, you're not a
Hall of Famer to me. And I know that sound
like we should Isaiah Thomas, like like this is what
(23:24):
I'm this, it should be of that ilk If I
have to debate, well, you know, if he would have
had a good coach, well, if he would have had
a good robin, well, if he would have had uh
this or that, or he had a better owner and
they got a better generalman.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Like you could make the sit that case for a
lot of people, and.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You should be like, like, what would be what would
what would James harden your push or your reason to
put him in standing on?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
What? What exactly did he do.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
That separated him from his peers during his time playing?
And I can't come up with anything other than having
his jersey retired at a strip club.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Other than that, I don't know of anything.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I'm gonna be honest with you. I thought that alone
would get him in your Hall of Fame. I thought you.
I thought it would be in dispute, like we are
absolutely not even gonna have this conversation. I thought we
were planning the show that you were gonna be like,
this is the stupidest convo ever that you would automatically
have him in there if we.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Were talking, of course, a groundbreaking moment, but not in basketball.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
We did this with Carmelo, and I think they're similar
in that their offensive well.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Do you weren't here for that? Yeah, but while Carmelo
on his.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Same just NBA mayor not the Olympics and not obviously
a national title run. So those things for one hundred
percent put him in the difference. For me, why I'm
more even more in favor of James Hard a couple
of reasons. One one of the things we're saying, Okay,
Carmelo has a bunch of All Star appearances, and I
think maybe he had won All NBA. James Harden has
seven All nbas seven. He's also a three time scoring champ,
(25:04):
and this is the kind of the separator two time
assists champs, so that means you are a scar machine
and you'll be dropping dimes. He was also a sixth
Man of the Year. He was a one time MVP.
Carmela was never an MVP, and we all know he
could have had one or two more Like that's how
good he was. There was a five to six year
(25:26):
period where if he was VP every one of those
usually I mean, I can't be mad at that. He
has a bunch of playoff appearances, and so it means
like he wasn't just good and teams were terrible. He
was always in the playoffs. He just had shortcomings in
the playoffs. I agree with that he left a lot
to be desired. I ain't lying about that. Okay, let
me give you this. You I would agree.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Harden has thirty five three five thirty five career playoff
games with less than four buckets made.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
They just listen to what I just told you. Not
ten game, not five. I ain't gonna lie that thirty
five game. Is that dubious? I'm hanging on. Okay, that's dubious.
All right, here we go. Here's receding hairline right now.
I'm hanging on by thread.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Hardness scored fewer than twenty points in twelve of his
twenty six career elimination games, including seven of his last thirteen.
For context, I'll give you that. Lebron, Steph and KD
have done it twice and it combined, right, sixty games,
(26:30):
sixty elimination game. Just think about that. Those three guys
have scored fewer than twenty points twice combined in sixty
in six zero eliminate. He's done it twelve times in
twenty six eleven. Just think about that. That's crazy. But
here's the thing that's my vote against.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
So he is in. He would be in the U R.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Hall of Fameer wing tie game by the Knicks just
tied the game, crazy like a thirty two to six
run or something crazy. Right now, Celtics should be ashamed
of themselves. This is what happens when you miss threes.
And the Celtics are an amazing team twelve for forty
seven ago right there, and this is what happens now
(27:17):
you forgot how to get other shots. Look at them,
they don't even know how to get offense right now.
Without threes, struggle bus, struggle bus, they best run and
lose a game. So, but James Harden has done too
much for me not to call him Hall of Famer,
a Hall of the disappointment in the playoffs without a doubt,
that goes.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Along with the records.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
The only other issue I have with the flip side
of this is, so then guys like Robert Lorri, Derek
Fisher or you know, Jimmy Butler, guys like that need
to be in the Hall of Fame because of the postseason,
Like if full.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Body of work isn't good enough, they weren't Robert how
many times it was Robert Orriy first team.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Is my guy and I don't think he should be in.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
I'm not arguing that, but what I'm saying is if
we're gonna just the vibe like, all right, here's postseason.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
It's your count regulars it should count.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
But I'm just saying That'll know, you made a couple
of shots in the postseason, but you were a bench
player your whole career. Are you didn't make any first
team All nbas or you know what I mean? Like
you didn't win an MVP. You never let.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Like like no, it has to be really good.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Regular great great regular season, and then moments not James
Harden has to win ten championships.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Moment he has failed you. But he is too.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
He's literally in my lifetime and you know how much
I've watched it. Jordan Kareem, you know two three other
guys as far as what Steph Curry, as far as
just the exposive weapons, like not just all guy can score.
There's plenty of guys who can score there, Dominique Wilkins
and Bernard King is a bunch of guys, but just
an offensive weapon. Man, he might be the best of
(28:52):
his generation in that regard. He and I can't not
put that guy who could have been an MVP two, three,
four times in the Hall of Fame.
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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