May 15, 2025 • 35 mins
On this week’s edition of Inside the (Rob) Parker, Rob is joined by author Keith O’Brien (Charlie Hustle: The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose, and the Last Glory Days of Baseball) checks in to discuss Rob Manfred’s decision to posthumously lift Pete Rose’s ban from baseball. During the conversation, Rob and Keith break down why it took so long, the role President Trump played in the whole ordeal, whether Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and much more! Plus, Cincinnati sports super fan Michael K Williams swings by to set the scene from Pete Rose Night on Wednesday in Cincinnati, MLBBro.com managing editor JR Gamble has a special Rose-themed edition of Foul or Fair, and we drop Rob's latest appearance on MLB Network.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From the Berkshars to the sound from wherever you live
in MLB America. This is Inside the Parker. You give
us twenty two minutes and we'll give you the scoop
on major League Baseball. Now, here's Baseball Hall of Fame
voter number fifty seven, Rob Parker.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Come on, I've been covering Major League Baseball for almost
forty years now, in New York, in Cincinnati, in Detroit,
in LA.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I love this game. Let's go.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Welcome into the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm your host, Rob Parker, And what a very special edition.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Of Inside the Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
All about Pete Rose, Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And the stunning decision by Major League Baseball to make
him eligible and no longer banned.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Author Keith O'Brien.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Who's written a really tremendous book about Pete Rose.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
He'll join us. Plus foul of all that and much more,
let's go.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Here comes the big interview. Listen and learn.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Now, let's welcome in author Keith O'Brien, who wrote the
book Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose
and the Last Glory.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Days of Baseball. Keith, we've had you on before.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It's so apropos to have you now and again welcome
to inside the Parker.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
How are you doing, Keith?
Speaker 5 (01:29):
I'm great, man, How are you great? To be back
with you?
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Absolutely Man.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So the announcement that Pete Rose, you know, I know,
shoeless Joe was also reinstated. He died in nineteen fifty one,
and for whatever reason, they decided to throw him in
I guess to try to throw off the set that
this was about Pete Rose, whether the commissioner wants to
admit it or not.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Did you know this was coming? And how surprised are you?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
There was so much smoke this fire in the past
six weeks. I think most people suspected this was coming,
and yet I was still stunned, Rob. I mean, I'll
be honest. I mean, this decision reversed thirty six years
of established Major League policy around Pete Rose. He had
(02:20):
applied for reinstatement many times through multiple commissioners, nothing ever changed.
And so it was still a stunning announcement. And I
agree with you what you said there in the intro.
I think you know, in some ways this was a
stroke of genius by Rob Manfred. You know, he didn't
(02:42):
make it about Pete Rose. He essentially has made a
semantic decision, a rule decision. What's more baseball than a
rule decision? Right by saying that when a player dies,
his ineligibility dies with him. And thus fifty seventeen different players,
including Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe and fifteen others, revert
(03:06):
back to normal status and the status quo. And in
doing so, Rob Manfred has taking an annual question that
always comes up. He's taking it off his plate, and
he's moved it to someone else's. You know, the National
Baseball Hall of Fame will now be answering questions about
Pete Rose. Major League Baseball won't any longer.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Right, And it's just.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
It just doesn't sit right with me as a Hall
of Fame voter and whatnot. And this is probably gonna
go to the you know, Veterans Committee or whatever they
call it now, the you know, not the writers per
se for Pete Rose, and there's a good chance that
he could get in. I've heard a lot of pushback
from a lot of former players that doesn't sound like
(03:53):
their gung ho for Pete Rose to get in. I guess,
you know, in baseball doing this, what is the point
of having a lifetime ban.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
And I get it that he's not alive anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But what you do is open a door to celebrate
a guy who you know, did something against the integrity
of the sport that could have damaged it.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And that's the reason you have rules in place. Does
that make sense like that?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That's I get he's not alive, but now there's a
chance that you're going to celebrate a guy who who
broke the biggest and cardinal rule of the game.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
You know, the thing that I guess upsets me the
most is that it's not going to the Baseball Writers
of America, is that you won't get a chance to
cast a vote. I think that would have been a
fascinating public discussion that would have unfolded in the marketplace,
in the town square about Pete Rose and about integrity
(04:55):
and about who we honor and who we don't know.
I don't I don't love the idea that this conversation,
this robust and complicated conversation, is now going to happen
essentially in a back in a back room, the smokey backroom,
and we won't really know what goes down there. You know,
(05:16):
if writers like yourself and so many others had had
a chance to weigh in. It would have filled the podcast,
it would have filled the columns. People could have replied
off one another, We could have sorted it out. And
I think, honestly, that's what should have happened in the beginning.
You know, when when Rose was banned in August nineteen
(05:36):
eighty nine, there was no rule in place that took
ineligible players off the ballot. In fact, Rose thought he
would appear on the ballot two years later in nineteen
ninety one, and so did Commissioner Bartiamatti. You know, Giamatti
is asked that day at his press conference in New York,
what are we to do about Pete Rose when he
appears on the ballot? And I loved Giamatti's answer. You know,
(05:58):
Giamatti said.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
That he looked forward.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
He looked forward to seeing how the voters, how the
writers waighed life in art, and how they judged the
two together. And I just wish the writers, that you
and so many other voters could have that conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And the thing is, and I'm you know, I respect
I don't agree with all the writers in there, but
that I respect their votes and they've put in the
work and the time of covering the sport that even
if it's not something that I agree with, I respect
everybody's right to have a vote and to pick the
guy that they want because of the reasons that they
(06:38):
choose that are important. Do we know that Pete Rose
was a great player, one of the greatest. That's not
even a question for anybody. Right until Mariano Rivera became unanimous,
no player had ever been unanimous.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
If you went on.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Pete Rose's stats alone, I don't know how you could
not vote for him, you know, like in that, but
we know that you can't separate the man Keith, and
that is the part when you look at his entire
career and what he's done. And my question to you
here is this, had Pete Rose come.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Clean, immediately.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Begged for forgiveness, said I'm gonna go to gambler's anonymous,
I'm gonna speak to kids about the dangers of gambling
and whatnot, and really been contrite and said, hey, I
made a colossal mistake. I never wanted to hurt baseball.
I have a problem and I need to get help.
Do you doubt he would have been in the Hall
(07:39):
would have been suspended, came back and been and been
able to.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Not only would he have not have been elected into
the Hall of Fame way back in the nineties if
he had done that, I believe that Rose might have
even been back in a dugout, and he might have
even been back on the yield. You know, when this
unfolds in nineteen eighty nine, we got to rewind the
tape a little bit. You know, Rose is not a
scandalous figure. He is not a villain. He is a
(08:11):
great American icon. He is fundamental to the game of baseball.
He's still in nineteen eighty nine as a manager, one
of its biggest stars. And so this was bad for baseball.
And when Baseball first learns about it, they call him
to New York for a secret meeting. And in that
meeting is outgoing Commissioner Peter Uberov incoming and commissioner and
(08:35):
then president of the National League Barchie Amadi, and Barchieamadi's
right hand man, fee Vincent, and they ask him point
blank that day they've heard a rumor that Sports Illustrated
is investigating a story that he's betting on the Reds.
He's betting on baseball. They want to know is it true?
And if Rose was honest, the whole story is different.
(08:59):
I believe that baseball would have done everything it could
to salvage Pete Rose. And to your point, even after
he goes down and his band, he doesn't do any
of those things that you just said. He doesn't go
on tour, he doesn't go on campuses and speak about
the dangers of gambling. He won't acknowledge for fifteen years
(09:22):
that Barchiamatti and John Dowd, the investigator for Major League Baseball,
are even right. You know, his lies hurt lots of people.
His lies hurt Barciamatti and his memory. And you know
he never does that sort of speaking tour in which
he could have helped lots of people, not just himself.
(09:43):
And it is, you know, in some ways classic Pete Rose.
He sort of missed this opportunity to get right with
the world, and he missed it many many times in
the last thirty six years of his life.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Keith O'Brien is our guest in a tremendous book about
Pete Rose, and you just touched on the key I
try to tell, you know, callers to my radio show
and baseball fans who stopped me and asked me about
Pete Rose and the whole thing, and they try to
blame baseball, and I say it.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
What you just said is so true.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Baseball did not want to have to ban its all
time hit leader. It doesn't help the game at all.
It's not what they wanted to do. But Pete couldn't
be honest with them, and you know, there set up
camp in Las Vegas, and he kept with it. There's
a famous interview when his son has his first step bat,
(10:45):
and I'm sure you've seen Keith just about everything about
Pete Rose, but he's interviewed in the stands and they
asked him about his son making his major league debut
and whatnot, and Pete can't even help hisself. He says
to the reporter, I bet he gets a hit, do
you know what I mean? Like I thought to myself,
(11:07):
you couldn't have said anything more and b Pete Rose.
But you get my point. This is not what baseball
wanted to do, but it had no choice.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
You know, as a native of Cincinnati, there was a
prominent narrative in nineteen eighty nine, and for years afterwards
that Barchiamadi was quote out to get Pete Rose, and
it just simply couldn't be further from the truth. You know,
Bartiamadi did what he had to do and what Pete
(11:39):
forced him to do by his unwillingness to acknowledge what
he had done. And I want to be clear here.
You know Pete makes these mistakes in this in the
eighties because he's addicted to gambling. You know, he is
making irrational choices in the way that addicts do. You know,
(12:02):
we all might not know in our lives a gambling addict.
I would suspect few of us do, but a lot
of us know someone in our lives who struggles with
addiction to alcohol or drugs.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
And what do addicts do.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
They make choices that hurt themselves and others, and they
do it again and again. And that's what he did
in that window of time. And so if he had
said I have a problem, I need help, Please help me,
Bartie Imadi absolutely would have done that. He just didn't
have that choice.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Here's the other thing too, that I hear a lot
and I pushed back on, Well, he never bet against
the Reds, And I'm saying you're a gambling addic. So
you know the starting picture, you guys bad not picturing well,
do you like the idea just the notion that he.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Would be because he has this.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Urge to gamble and wants to win, that he would
be of course, have honor in those situations, even though
he knows inside information that maybe his starter or whatever's
going on is not that good or his best player
is not playing. I just and they have all the
records to back it up that of course he did bet,
but there are people who will not let go of
(13:19):
this idea that well, but he never bet against the Reds,
So I don't understand if you're betting for them to win,
what's the difference.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Can you just speak to that?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah, there are two issues with that. First was flagged
by Barti Imadi in nineteen eighty nine. You know, he
said that the moment that a player, any player, places
a wager even on himself to win, he now has
incentives outside the game and there's just no place for it.
That's number one. Number two, what Pete Rose said in
(13:52):
the last you know, twenty years of his life wasn't
exactly true. Yes, he never bet against the Reds. There
is no evidence that he ever placed a wager against
his own team, however, based on the printed records, and
there are two batches of printed gambling records related to
Pete Rose, one from nineteen eighty six, his last year
(14:14):
as a player manager, and one from nineteen eighty seven,
And in those batches of gambling records, Rose doesn't always
bet on the Reds. And what I mean by that
is maybe he bet on them on Monday and Tuesday
and Wednesday and Thursday, and then he didn't on Friday
and Saturday, and then he did again on Sunday. And
(14:36):
the reason why that's problematic is this, at the time
when Pete was betting, he was betting with illegal bookies,
and illegal bookies never worked alone. If I'm a bookie
and you're a bookie, in the minutes before game time,
we are calling each other and we are laying off
our bets so that you and I get even. So
if you're in New York and everyone in your betting
(14:58):
circle is betting on the Mets, and I'm in Cincinnati
and everyone in my circle is betting against the Mets,
we get even. We lay off our bets. So you
and I are going to come out ahead no matter
what happens tonight. And so I can assure you that
in the minutes before games where Rose did not wager
on his own team, Betty's bookies were talking, they knew
(15:21):
and and money was moving on that.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
No doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It is very very interesting how this thing all all
came about. And you know, and even Pete Rose said
I'll be in the Hall of Fame when I die
or whatever, And now here we are. He's passed on
and now he's he's not ineligible anymore. And this is
(15:46):
going to go to this committee and we'll see where
that is with former players. Even though my biggest issue
with the with the Veterans Committee, per se is some
of the biggest question marks in the Hall of Fame,
where people go, well, what about you know, Phil Rizzuto,
(16:09):
what about Bill Mazeroski, what about you know Pee Wee Reese.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, they're in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Whenever fans do that, I always say, they were not
voted in by the writers, like those are the ones.
And that's why I think there's a chance that he
could get in. And I tell fans also people haven't
been up to Hall of Fame that his stuff is there.
He's not whitewashed out where they don't have any of
his memorabilia, and you don't know who Pete Rose is,
(16:37):
so the idea that he's not in the Hall of
Fame is not true.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Well, and listen, there'll be a trickle down effect no
matter what happens here. If the Veterans Committee in two
years or five years, you know, rules that Rose should
be enshrined, that's going to open the door to a
lot of other of Baseball's and they or do wells,
you know, players from the steroid era.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Ary Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGuire.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
I mean, I don't know how you'll be able to
keep them out.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
There will be there will There are a lot of
invested parties now in the Pete Rose in the Pete
Rose case. Similarly, you know, if they rule against him,
it would seem to keep the door closed to those folks.
I mean, the most fascinating thing is this, and you
know this, Rob For the last thirty six years, the
(17:34):
Pete Rose debate has been a hypothetical one, and it's
been one of those great late night sports debates that
we've all had at some point. Right now, it's real.
We are having that debate right now, and it is
going to be fascinating to see what we as a
culture decide to do.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And last thing, it's out there. President Trump was going
to pardon Keith Pete Rose. And what you know, did
this spur the commissioner to jump forward or jump ahead
so that it wasn't Trump it was at least him
or Baseball making the move rather than the President.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
What have you heard on that?
Speaker 5 (18:18):
I'm speculating a bit here, Rob, But you know, we
all know right now that President Trump is putting pressure
on lots of people and lots of parties corporations as well.
Nobody wants to be in the crossairs of Donald Trump's
ire in this particular moment of time. And I think
(18:40):
that extends to Major League Baseball as well. If someone
was going to move the ball forward here on Pete Rose,
I believe Major League Baseball wanted to be the one
to do it. It has now happened, you know, Rob
Manfred again has taken this thorny issue that has been
(19:00):
in the side of baseball for thirty six years. He
has put it in the side of someone else, and
it's going to be fascinating to see where it all leads.
The only thing we know for sure is that somehow,
someway from the afterlife, he Rose will continue to make
major headlines. It's incredible, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Man.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I appreciate the conversation Keith O'Brien. Check out his book
Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose and
the Last Glory Days of Baseball. Make sure you pick
that up. And always a pleasure to talk to you, Keith.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Thanks so much for having me again.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
It's the Gambler here. Vice president of Operations for mlbbro
dot Com and executive producer of the MLB bro Show
podcast The Mixtape.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Every Friday. You heard that right.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Every Friday we bring you the the best from the
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(20:21):
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(20:43):
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We will gladly pay you on Tuesday. From an MLB
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(21:06):
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Speaker 1 (21:43):
When Rob was a newspaper columnist, he lived by this model.
If I'm writing, I'm ripping, Let's bring in a writer
of broadcaster, old or new.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Now let's welcome into the podcast.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I call him the super Reds fan, Mike Williams from Cincinnati,
and Mike a buddy of mine.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Every time I go to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Guess so I go to the baseball game with it's
that guy right there, Mike Williams.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
What's up, Mike? How are you?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Broh?
Speaker 7 (22:09):
I'm doing good?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Man, how are you? I'm doing good.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I had to get you on the podcast because last
night was Pete Rose Knight at the Great American Ballpark,
and you were there. I saw the pictures you sent
me earlier, just kind of tell me about it. I
didn't realize they had already had this thing scheduled and
the NFL right when Baseball made its announcement. What was
that like last night at the ballpark?
Speaker 7 (22:34):
I see it was perfect time, man. I mean this
was scheduled I think two to three weeks after he
died in September, so we knew about this for a minute.
And it was standing room only.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Rob it was packed.
Speaker 7 (22:47):
It was kind of like Opening Day, but honestly, it
was more people in the ball crowd for this than
Opening Day.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
She's crazy, but we get. I gotta say this, Pete
Roses are very unique.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
It's not often that someone is born, you know, in
that city becomes like one of the greatest players ever.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
And then of course he won. Who was on the
big red machine. I mean, Pete Rose is a Cincinnati icon.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
It's not like Mike he was born in northern Kentucky
or Ohio or close by Cincinnati. He was born in Cincinnati.
And you, as a younger guy, young fan, you know
about Cincinna. You know about Pete Rose, don't you. Everybody does.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
Yes, He's a true West Sider. And my favorite thing
about him is this underdog story. I mean, you can
he's the champion. He's our bab roof. That's what the
son said yesterday. He's our baby roof.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So definitely, what was the sort of atmosphere And I
guess when you heard the announcement in people in Cincinnati
who still live and work in Cincinnati, when it came
down from the commissioner. What was that like at work
people talking about it or your friends or whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
What was that like?
Speaker 7 (23:57):
I thought it was long overdue. I know how you feel, Robb,
so I won't get into that debate with you, but
we feel like this is something that should have happened
when he was asking, you know, in the late nineties
or early nineties, late nineties, when the All Star Game
came to Cincinnati. I mean, it's something.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I remember that twenty fifteen. He was allowed on the
field though, if you remember, and he was banned. So
Baseball did Ben? Can you at least get Baseball that
he was there?
Speaker 7 (24:25):
They did, Ben, They did allow the Reds to retire
his jersey. But you commented on something last night on
that our couple podcasts. You said, this isn't a coincidence,
and you're right, it's not because his family has been
working behind the scenes with Commissioner Manfred to get this,
to get his blank, his band status, get his stand
(24:51):
bad as removed. And this is all about Pete. I
know they happened to have you know, the other players
who no gamble, but this is this is all about Pete.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
So no doubt.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So that last thing I know your last said, you're
a super Reds fan and I'm going to see you
in June when we go to the game.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
As I come every year. You know that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
But uh, the gambling and what he did doesn't bother
you or you're just willing to forgive him, because let's
not act like Creed Rose was an angel.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Does it bother me?
Speaker 6 (25:25):
No?
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Because he bettered on his team to win every single night.
I could see if he was intentionally sitting players or
he was betting on him and lose, but he he
wanted them to win every night, and that's what he
betted on. So I do not know.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I do not there he is. That's that's what I
expected from you, super Reds fan.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Mike Williams from Cincinnati from the Natty join us here
on inside the Park.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 7 (25:56):
Thanks Rov when we have to get out for a
Bengals game as well.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Man left ball. It was a big week in the
big leagues. Who's who's a five?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I believe?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Is it fouled or is it fair?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And now from mlbdbro dot com here's Jrgambo.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Jr.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Is it foul or fair that Pete Rose is now
eligible for the Hall of Fame in a few years,
and accused ped legends are still shut out.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
From the Hall faul. That is a foul ball. At
least with Pete Rose.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
It was an agreed upon situation between him and bar
Giomadi in nineteen eighty nine, with Rose expecting to be
reinstated one day. Giami passed on, though, and it seemed
like the commissioners who followed him they just wanted to
respect his last big decision, so they kept Rose out.
(26:59):
No one capitalized on Pete Rose's gambling but Pete and
the bookies, so that was greed, and he continued to
deny it while doing it, I think, all the way
up to twenty fifteen. On the other hand, Bonds, Mark McGuire,
Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, just the name a few admitted
to their shortcomings and gave explanations why. But eventually everyone
(27:21):
from manager Joe Torre to Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox,
they were all honorably inducted into the Hall of Fame,
as well as overseeing Commissioner Bud Selick.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
But they were to blame as well.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
They all looked the other way and one world series
with PD players, so Sam McGuire chasing Maris's sixty one
homer mark in ninety eight that saved baseball. McGuire with
seventy bombs. Wasn't the Senate committee hearings humiliating enough? Otani's
eight hundred million dollar contract and these bags they come
(27:53):
on the back of the accomplishments of all these players
and his very hypocritical people. Be real, we know their
steroid users in the Hall of Fame already. With baseball
knee deep in gambling partnerships, the Pete Rose facade is over,
so should the be the ped assassination against the game's greats.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
In case you missed Rob Parker on the MLB networks,
here's his latest appearance on MLBNA.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I say, no way, know how if Pete Rose wasn't
fit when he was alive to be in the Hall
of Fame, it doesn't make any sense to me that
now he's.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Fit because he's dead. The offenses are still the offenses.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And what's the reason of having rules and then acting
like nothing happened because he passed away.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Just none of it makes any sense to me.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I understand partly the commissioners saying, well, he're taking him
off the list.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Because he's not alive anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But it doesn't mean that he should now go on
the ballot or have a chance to get in the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 8 (29:03):
Well, I'll say this, Rob, Rob, I'm not even arguing
against you. I don't thin there's any right or wrong here.
And you make an excellent point. He violated that rule,
you made that decision. He's on the permanently ineligible list.
Why would he come off. But I'll say this, had
he changed his ways at really any point through the
nineteen nineties or after and had copped to it. He
(29:25):
didn't admit to it until two thousand and four, then
he could have been back in the game, and then
you could at least put him on either to the
Baseball Writers or one of these veterans committees and say
you make the call on this, like, shouldn't he get
a the hearing, get the vote at the very least?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Well, he didn't do that, and that's why he forfeits this.
This is you know, when you reinstate somebody And here's
my biggest point on why I disagree with this. If
we found out that someone was wronged or was wrongly accused,
or we had new evidence that maybe Pete Rose didn't
do it or whatever it was, then you.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Go in and correct that. Okay, we have no new evidence. No, no,
he didn't, he didn't. Nothing violated. Yeah, yeah, right, all right?
Speaker 7 (30:12):
Rob?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Wait? Rob, shouldn't he get a vote by.
Speaker 8 (30:15):
But this, this is not this is not placing him
into the Hall of Fame. He didn't fast track into
the hall. He's not being inducted this summer. He's going
to a committee in two years. So that I'm better
with let the Hall of famers themselves. I think there
should be an all Hall of Fame committee like they
did for three times. They voted nobody in let them vote.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
See here here's my issue. Then why even have the rules?
Just this should be no rules.
Speaker 8 (30:43):
They invote the rule, they vote a rule. In nineteen ninety, Rob, Rob,
they didn't have a rule. No one had to tell
Shula Show Jackson was available to be voted on, and
they got like a handful of votes in nineteen thirty six,
I think a forty six as well. But the very
first vote nineteen thirty six got a handful of votes.
But most of the writers are like, no, the writers
could do you who could have said the same thing
in nineteen ninety one. No, and now this wouldn't be
(31:03):
an issue.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, but the only reason is I think baseball at
the time made the right decision. The biggest harm to
the game is the integrity of it. And when you
don't have integrity on what you're watching is real or not,
then you got to ask yourself is this WWE or
is this real? And you can't jeopardize that and the
(31:25):
whole notion every time I hear Pete didn't bet against
the Reds, Pete this, that and the other thing. So
you mean to tell me that a gambler with a
chance to make money is.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Also now he has honor and the last thing he's
going to do is bet against.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
The team when he knows the starting pitcher on his
team is terrible and is going to get lit up tonight.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I mean, come on, yeah with you.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
You're right, You're right.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
What do you vote for the steroid guys?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yes, And I'll tell you why hold on the steroid
guys who never tested positive. And before the rule was
put in, which is two thousand and.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
Follow like it was okay, before the rule was put in,
we know it was. That was again forbidding it's for
voting to have to lie about it to get to
get away with it.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
There though there was no rule on the book. Now
you're kidding, there's no Why didn't add it?
Speaker 8 (32:16):
If there's no rue, what didn't they say? By the way,
I used testosterone. It's great, it's fantastic. It's nineteen ninety eight.
I'm crushing it, boy, I feel great. Why didn't they
admit it? If it was okay, there's no rule.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Okay, it was not okay.
Speaker 8 (32:27):
It was forbidden by the culture, but it was not
okay with the culture to take steroids.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Then it was not, but it.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Wasn't tested for and none of those guys were suspended
by the league. Here's the other thing. To New York
State send you a driving violations for not wearing a
seatbelt from the seventies, even though people didn't wear seatbelts.
Speaker 8 (32:47):
Come on, you don't confuse things you knew you couldn't
do it back then. And by the way, all we're
doing this is what I always say, Rob, I'm choosing
whether or not to honor a player. I choose to
honor Fred mc over the guys who juiced. So it's
four hundred ninety three home runs. They don't look as
good as six point forty or whatever it was that
Sammy So said. Okay, but I'm gonna choose to honor
(33:09):
the guy who played clean.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
No, no, no, I disagree with that, because you're rewarding
people who don't have the statistics based on nothing other
than them being clean, and as a comparison to the
other people you should be in the hall of fame.
The hall of fame should be for extraordinary people who
have done extraordinary things and not broken the rules that
(33:32):
were set before them.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You know this, BK.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
As a reporter, when you walked into a baseball clubhouse,
there was no sign bigger on the wall than the
one about gambling. Baseball was so strong on gambling.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
If you remember the casinos.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
When the casinos.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Opened up and Mickey Manno and Willie Mad's were greeters
in Atlantic City, they banned those guys from any base.
Speaker 8 (33:57):
Not arguing that, yep, I prize at your leniency for
those who clearly violated the norms of the culture back then.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
They clearly did, because.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I didn't vote for Manny Ramires because he got busted
after they put.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Drove the line there. Okay, all right, we can agree
on disagree that largely. I hear what you're saying, but
not the story.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
And you know what, they put it up to a vote,
not a guy to will.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Wind up putting voting for Pete Rose. I just won't
be one of them again. I'll say this last thing.
Speaker 8 (34:27):
Bonds and Clements got on a veterans committee, right, maguire
palmerow They got on a veterans committee, and the answer
was no. The answer is yes or no on Pete Rose.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Steep Rose is different. Pete Rose is different. He was
very popular and he's the all time hit king. I'm
telling you he's different.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And that's why Baseball didn't even leave it up to
the writers, because they did not honor a guy who
against their number one rule. In the words of New
y York TV legend the Lady Bill Jorgensen, thanking you
for your time this time until next time, Rob Parker
(35:06):
out d can't Davin.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
This could be an inside of Parker. See you next week,
same bat time, same bat station.
From the Berkshars to the sound from wherever you live
in MLB America. This is Inside the Parker. You give
us twenty two minutes and we'll give you the scoop
on major League Baseball. Now, here's Baseball Hall of Fame
voter number fifty seven, Rob Parker.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Come on, I've been covering Major League Baseball for almost
forty years now, in New York, in Cincinnati, in Detroit,
in LA.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I love this game. Let's go.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Welcome into the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm your host, Rob Parker, And what a very special edition.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Of Inside the Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
All about Pete Rose, Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And the stunning decision by Major League Baseball to make
him eligible and no longer banned.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Author Keith O'Brien.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Who's written a really tremendous book about Pete Rose.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
He'll join us. Plus foul of all that and much more,
let's go.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Here comes the big interview. Listen and learn.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Now, let's welcome in author Keith O'Brien, who wrote the
book Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose
and the Last Glory.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Days of Baseball. Keith, we've had you on before.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It's so apropos to have you now and again welcome
to inside the Parker.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
How are you doing, Keith?
Speaker 5 (01:29):
I'm great, man, How are you great? To be back
with you?
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Absolutely Man.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So the announcement that Pete Rose, you know, I know,
shoeless Joe was also reinstated. He died in nineteen fifty one,
and for whatever reason, they decided to throw him in
I guess to try to throw off the set that
this was about Pete Rose, whether the commissioner wants to
admit it or not.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Did you know this was coming? And how surprised are you?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
There was so much smoke this fire in the past
six weeks. I think most people suspected this was coming,
and yet I was still stunned, Rob. I mean, I'll
be honest. I mean, this decision reversed thirty six years
of established Major League policy around Pete Rose. He had
(02:20):
applied for reinstatement many times through multiple commissioners, nothing ever changed.
And so it was still a stunning announcement. And I
agree with you what you said there in the intro.
I think you know, in some ways this was a
stroke of genius by Rob Manfred. You know, he didn't
(02:42):
make it about Pete Rose. He essentially has made a
semantic decision, a rule decision. What's more baseball than a
rule decision? Right by saying that when a player dies,
his ineligibility dies with him. And thus fifty seventeen different players,
including Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe and fifteen others, revert
(03:06):
back to normal status and the status quo. And in
doing so, Rob Manfred has taking an annual question that
always comes up. He's taking it off his plate, and
he's moved it to someone else's. You know, the National
Baseball Hall of Fame will now be answering questions about
Pete Rose. Major League Baseball won't any longer.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Right, And it's just.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
It just doesn't sit right with me as a Hall
of Fame voter and whatnot. And this is probably gonna
go to the you know, Veterans Committee or whatever they
call it now, the you know, not the writers per
se for Pete Rose, and there's a good chance that
he could get in. I've heard a lot of pushback
from a lot of former players that doesn't sound like
(03:53):
their gung ho for Pete Rose to get in. I guess,
you know, in baseball doing this, what is the point
of having a lifetime ban.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
And I get it that he's not alive anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But what you do is open a door to celebrate
a guy who you know, did something against the integrity
of the sport that could have damaged it.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
And that's the reason you have rules in place. Does
that make sense like that?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That's I get he's not alive, but now there's a
chance that you're going to celebrate a guy who who
broke the biggest and cardinal rule of the game.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
You know, the thing that I guess upsets me the
most is that it's not going to the Baseball Writers
of America, is that you won't get a chance to
cast a vote. I think that would have been a
fascinating public discussion that would have unfolded in the marketplace,
in the town square about Pete Rose and about integrity
(04:55):
and about who we honor and who we don't know.
I don't I don't love the idea that this conversation,
this robust and complicated conversation, is now going to happen
essentially in a back in a back room, the smokey backroom,
and we won't really know what goes down there. You know,
(05:16):
if writers like yourself and so many others had had
a chance to weigh in. It would have filled the podcast,
it would have filled the columns. People could have replied
off one another, We could have sorted it out. And
I think, honestly, that's what should have happened in the beginning.
You know, when when Rose was banned in August nineteen
(05:36):
eighty nine, there was no rule in place that took
ineligible players off the ballot. In fact, Rose thought he
would appear on the ballot two years later in nineteen
ninety one, and so did Commissioner Bartiamatti. You know, Giamatti
is asked that day at his press conference in New York,
what are we to do about Pete Rose when he
appears on the ballot? And I loved Giamatti's answer. You know,
(05:58):
Giamatti said.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
That he looked forward.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
He looked forward to seeing how the voters, how the
writers waighed life in art, and how they judged the
two together. And I just wish the writers, that you
and so many other voters could have that conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And the thing is, and I'm you know, I respect
I don't agree with all the writers in there, but
that I respect their votes and they've put in the
work and the time of covering the sport that even
if it's not something that I agree with, I respect
everybody's right to have a vote and to pick the
guy that they want because of the reasons that they
(06:38):
choose that are important. Do we know that Pete Rose
was a great player, one of the greatest. That's not
even a question for anybody. Right until Mariano Rivera became unanimous,
no player had ever been unanimous.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
If you went on.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Pete Rose's stats alone, I don't know how you could
not vote for him, you know, like in that, but
we know that you can't separate the man Keith, and
that is the part when you look at his entire
career and what he's done. And my question to you
here is this, had Pete Rose come.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Clean, immediately.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Begged for forgiveness, said I'm gonna go to gambler's anonymous,
I'm gonna speak to kids about the dangers of gambling
and whatnot, and really been contrite and said, hey, I
made a colossal mistake. I never wanted to hurt baseball.
I have a problem and I need to get help.
Do you doubt he would have been in the Hall
(07:39):
would have been suspended, came back and been and been
able to.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Not only would he have not have been elected into
the Hall of Fame way back in the nineties if
he had done that, I believe that Rose might have
even been back in a dugout, and he might have
even been back on the yield. You know, when this
unfolds in nineteen eighty nine, we got to rewind the
tape a little bit. You know, Rose is not a
scandalous figure. He is not a villain. He is a
(08:11):
great American icon. He is fundamental to the game of baseball.
He's still in nineteen eighty nine as a manager, one
of its biggest stars. And so this was bad for baseball.
And when Baseball first learns about it, they call him
to New York for a secret meeting. And in that
meeting is outgoing Commissioner Peter Uberov incoming and commissioner and
(08:35):
then president of the National League Barchie Amadi, and Barchieamadi's
right hand man, fee Vincent, and they ask him point
blank that day they've heard a rumor that Sports Illustrated
is investigating a story that he's betting on the Reds.
He's betting on baseball. They want to know is it true?
And if Rose was honest, the whole story is different.
(08:59):
I believe that baseball would have done everything it could
to salvage Pete Rose. And to your point, even after
he goes down and his band, he doesn't do any
of those things that you just said. He doesn't go
on tour, he doesn't go on campuses and speak about
the dangers of gambling. He won't acknowledge for fifteen years
(09:22):
that Barchiamatti and John Dowd, the investigator for Major League Baseball,
are even right. You know, his lies hurt lots of people.
His lies hurt Barciamatti and his memory. And you know
he never does that sort of speaking tour in which
he could have helped lots of people, not just himself.
(09:43):
And it is, you know, in some ways classic Pete Rose.
He sort of missed this opportunity to get right with
the world, and he missed it many many times in
the last thirty six years of his life.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Keith O'Brien is our guest in a tremendous book about
Pete Rose, and you just touched on the key I
try to tell, you know, callers to my radio show
and baseball fans who stopped me and asked me about
Pete Rose and the whole thing, and they try to
blame baseball, and I say it.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
What you just said is so true.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Baseball did not want to have to ban its all
time hit leader. It doesn't help the game at all.
It's not what they wanted to do. But Pete couldn't
be honest with them, and you know, there set up
camp in Las Vegas, and he kept with it. There's
a famous interview when his son has his first step bat,
(10:45):
and I'm sure you've seen Keith just about everything about
Pete Rose, but he's interviewed in the stands and they
asked him about his son making his major league debut
and whatnot, and Pete can't even help hisself. He says
to the reporter, I bet he gets a hit, do
you know what I mean? Like I thought to myself,
(11:07):
you couldn't have said anything more and b Pete Rose.
But you get my point. This is not what baseball
wanted to do, but it had no choice.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
You know, as a native of Cincinnati, there was a
prominent narrative in nineteen eighty nine, and for years afterwards
that Barchiamadi was quote out to get Pete Rose, and
it just simply couldn't be further from the truth. You know,
Bartiamadi did what he had to do and what Pete
(11:39):
forced him to do by his unwillingness to acknowledge what
he had done. And I want to be clear here.
You know Pete makes these mistakes in this in the
eighties because he's addicted to gambling. You know, he is
making irrational choices in the way that addicts do. You know,
(12:02):
we all might not know in our lives a gambling addict.
I would suspect few of us do, but a lot
of us know someone in our lives who struggles with
addiction to alcohol or drugs.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
And what do addicts do.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
They make choices that hurt themselves and others, and they
do it again and again. And that's what he did
in that window of time. And so if he had
said I have a problem, I need help, Please help me,
Bartie Imadi absolutely would have done that. He just didn't
have that choice.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Here's the other thing too, that I hear a lot
and I pushed back on, Well, he never bet against
the Reds, And I'm saying you're a gambling addic. So
you know the starting picture, you guys bad not picturing well,
do you like the idea just the notion that he.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Would be because he has this.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Urge to gamble and wants to win, that he would
be of course, have honor in those situations, even though
he knows inside information that maybe his starter or whatever's
going on is not that good or his best player
is not playing. I just and they have all the
records to back it up that of course he did bet,
but there are people who will not let go of
(13:19):
this idea that well, but he never bet against the Reds,
So I don't understand if you're betting for them to win,
what's the difference.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Can you just speak to that?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah, there are two issues with that. First was flagged
by Barti Imadi in nineteen eighty nine. You know, he
said that the moment that a player, any player, places
a wager even on himself to win, he now has
incentives outside the game and there's just no place for it.
That's number one. Number two, what Pete Rose said in
(13:52):
the last you know, twenty years of his life wasn't
exactly true. Yes, he never bet against the Reds. There
is no evidence that he ever placed a wager against
his own team, however, based on the printed records, and
there are two batches of printed gambling records related to
Pete Rose, one from nineteen eighty six, his last year
(14:14):
as a player manager, and one from nineteen eighty seven,
And in those batches of gambling records, Rose doesn't always
bet on the Reds. And what I mean by that
is maybe he bet on them on Monday and Tuesday
and Wednesday and Thursday, and then he didn't on Friday
and Saturday, and then he did again on Sunday. And
(14:36):
the reason why that's problematic is this, at the time
when Pete was betting, he was betting with illegal bookies,
and illegal bookies never worked alone. If I'm a bookie
and you're a bookie, in the minutes before game time,
we are calling each other and we are laying off
our bets so that you and I get even. So
if you're in New York and everyone in your betting
(14:58):
circle is betting on the Mets, and I'm in Cincinnati
and everyone in my circle is betting against the Mets,
we get even. We lay off our bets. So you
and I are going to come out ahead no matter
what happens tonight. And so I can assure you that
in the minutes before games where Rose did not wager
on his own team, Betty's bookies were talking, they knew
(15:21):
and and money was moving on that.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
No doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It is very very interesting how this thing all all
came about. And you know, and even Pete Rose said
I'll be in the Hall of Fame when I die
or whatever, And now here we are. He's passed on
and now he's he's not ineligible anymore. And this is
(15:46):
going to go to this committee and we'll see where
that is with former players. Even though my biggest issue
with the with the Veterans Committee, per se is some
of the biggest question marks in the Hall of Fame,
where people go, well, what about you know, Phil Rizzuto,
(16:09):
what about Bill Mazeroski, what about you know Pee Wee Reese.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, they're in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Whenever fans do that, I always say, they were not
voted in by the writers, like those are the ones.
And that's why I think there's a chance that he
could get in. And I tell fans also people haven't
been up to Hall of Fame that his stuff is there.
He's not whitewashed out where they don't have any of
his memorabilia, and you don't know who Pete Rose is,
(16:37):
so the idea that he's not in the Hall of
Fame is not true.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
Well, and listen, there'll be a trickle down effect no
matter what happens here. If the Veterans Committee in two
years or five years, you know, rules that Rose should
be enshrined, that's going to open the door to a
lot of other of Baseball's and they or do wells,
you know, players from the steroid era.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Ary Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGuire.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
I mean, I don't know how you'll be able to
keep them out.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
There will be there will There are a lot of
invested parties now in the Pete Rose in the Pete
Rose case. Similarly, you know, if they rule against him,
it would seem to keep the door closed to those folks.
I mean, the most fascinating thing is this, and you
know this, Rob For the last thirty six years, the
(17:34):
Pete Rose debate has been a hypothetical one, and it's
been one of those great late night sports debates that
we've all had at some point. Right now, it's real.
We are having that debate right now, and it is
going to be fascinating to see what we as a
culture decide to do.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And last thing, it's out there. President Trump was going
to pardon Keith Pete Rose. And what you know, did
this spur the commissioner to jump forward or jump ahead
so that it wasn't Trump it was at least him
or Baseball making the move rather than the President.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
What have you heard on that?
Speaker 5 (18:18):
I'm speculating a bit here, Rob, But you know, we
all know right now that President Trump is putting pressure
on lots of people and lots of parties corporations as well.
Nobody wants to be in the crossairs of Donald Trump's
ire in this particular moment of time. And I think
(18:40):
that extends to Major League Baseball as well. If someone
was going to move the ball forward here on Pete Rose,
I believe Major League Baseball wanted to be the one
to do it. It has now happened, you know, Rob
Manfred again has taken this thorny issue that has been
(19:00):
in the side of baseball for thirty six years. He
has put it in the side of someone else, and
it's going to be fascinating to see where it all leads.
The only thing we know for sure is that somehow,
someway from the afterlife, he Rose will continue to make
major headlines. It's incredible, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Man.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I appreciate the conversation Keith O'Brien. Check out his book
Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose and
the Last Glory Days of Baseball. Make sure you pick
that up. And always a pleasure to talk to you, Keith.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Thanks so much for having me again.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
It's the Gambler here. Vice president of Operations for mlbbro
dot Com and executive producer of the MLB bro Show
podcast The Mixtape.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Every Friday. You heard that right.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Every Friday we bring you the the best from the
world of Black and Brown baseball. We cover the seven
point two percent of melanated Major leaguers from soup to nuts,
but with our own cultural flair and unique voice, will
take you on a ride reflecting on the accomplishments, clutch moments,
and contributions to culture that the Bros continue to breathe
(20:21):
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(20:43):
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of hands, the Boss Rob Parker, he's kicking up dust.
We will gladly pay you on Tuesday. From an MLB
bro doubleheader Today, remember the heart of the game, live
in the diversity of the game and the spirit of
black baseball that dates back to the Negro leagues. I've
(21:06):
the Gambler, your friendly neighborhood diamond checker, making sure that
you stay on top of the game and in touch
with the soul of MLB. Fuckle up for a wild
baseball journey, showing respect to the Ogs and highlighting the
new breed of melanated malt moroder. First thing through MLB's pipeline,
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(21:29):
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Speaker 1 (21:43):
When Rob was a newspaper columnist, he lived by this model.
If I'm writing, I'm ripping, Let's bring in a writer
of broadcaster, old or new.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Now let's welcome into the podcast.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I call him the super Reds fan, Mike Williams from Cincinnati,
and Mike a buddy of mine.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Every time I go to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Guess so I go to the baseball game with it's
that guy right there, Mike Williams.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
What's up, Mike? How are you?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Broh?
Speaker 7 (22:09):
I'm doing good?
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Man, how are you? I'm doing good.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I had to get you on the podcast because last
night was Pete Rose Knight at the Great American Ballpark,
and you were there. I saw the pictures you sent
me earlier, just kind of tell me about it. I
didn't realize they had already had this thing scheduled and
the NFL right when Baseball made its announcement. What was
that like last night at the ballpark?
Speaker 7 (22:34):
I see it was perfect time, man. I mean this
was scheduled I think two to three weeks after he
died in September, so we knew about this for a minute.
And it was standing room only.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Rob it was packed.
Speaker 7 (22:47):
It was kind of like Opening Day, but honestly, it
was more people in the ball crowd for this than
Opening Day.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
She's crazy, but we get. I gotta say this, Pete
Roses are very unique.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
It's not often that someone is born, you know, in
that city becomes like one of the greatest players ever.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
And then of course he won. Who was on the
big red machine. I mean, Pete Rose is a Cincinnati icon.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
It's not like Mike he was born in northern Kentucky
or Ohio or close by Cincinnati. He was born in Cincinnati.
And you, as a younger guy, young fan, you know
about Cincinna. You know about Pete Rose, don't you. Everybody does.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
Yes, He's a true West Sider. And my favorite thing
about him is this underdog story. I mean, you can
he's the champion. He's our bab roof. That's what the
son said yesterday. He's our baby roof.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So definitely, what was the sort of atmosphere And I
guess when you heard the announcement in people in Cincinnati
who still live and work in Cincinnati, when it came
down from the commissioner. What was that like at work
people talking about it or your friends or whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
What was that like?
Speaker 7 (23:57):
I thought it was long overdue. I know how you feel, Robb,
so I won't get into that debate with you, but
we feel like this is something that should have happened
when he was asking, you know, in the late nineties
or early nineties, late nineties, when the All Star Game
came to Cincinnati. I mean, it's something.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I remember that twenty fifteen. He was allowed on the
field though, if you remember, and he was banned. So
Baseball did Ben? Can you at least get Baseball that
he was there?
Speaker 7 (24:25):
They did, Ben, They did allow the Reds to retire
his jersey. But you commented on something last night on
that our couple podcasts. You said, this isn't a coincidence,
and you're right, it's not because his family has been
working behind the scenes with Commissioner Manfred to get this,
to get his blank, his band status, get his stand
(24:51):
bad as removed. And this is all about Pete. I
know they happened to have you know, the other players
who no gamble, but this is this is all about Pete.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
So no doubt.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So that last thing I know your last said, you're
a super Reds fan and I'm going to see you
in June when we go to the game.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
As I come every year. You know that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
But uh, the gambling and what he did doesn't bother
you or you're just willing to forgive him, because let's
not act like Creed Rose was an angel.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Does it bother me?
Speaker 6 (25:25):
No?
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Because he bettered on his team to win every single night.
I could see if he was intentionally sitting players or
he was betting on him and lose, but he he
wanted them to win every night, and that's what he
betted on. So I do not know.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I do not there he is. That's that's what I
expected from you, super Reds fan.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Mike Williams from Cincinnati from the Natty join us here
on inside the Park.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 7 (25:56):
Thanks Rov when we have to get out for a
Bengals game as well.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Man left ball. It was a big week in the
big leagues. Who's who's a five?
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I believe?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Is it fouled or is it fair?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And now from mlbdbro dot com here's Jrgambo.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Jr.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Is it foul or fair that Pete Rose is now
eligible for the Hall of Fame in a few years,
and accused ped legends are still shut out.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
From the Hall faul. That is a foul ball. At
least with Pete Rose.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
It was an agreed upon situation between him and bar
Giomadi in nineteen eighty nine, with Rose expecting to be
reinstated one day. Giami passed on, though, and it seemed
like the commissioners who followed him they just wanted to
respect his last big decision, so they kept Rose out.
(26:59):
No one capitalized on Pete Rose's gambling but Pete and
the bookies, so that was greed, and he continued to
deny it while doing it, I think, all the way
up to twenty fifteen. On the other hand, Bonds, Mark McGuire,
Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, just the name a few admitted
to their shortcomings and gave explanations why. But eventually everyone
(27:21):
from manager Joe Torre to Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox,
they were all honorably inducted into the Hall of Fame,
as well as overseeing Commissioner Bud Selick.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
But they were to blame as well.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
They all looked the other way and one world series
with PD players, so Sam McGuire chasing Maris's sixty one
homer mark in ninety eight that saved baseball. McGuire with
seventy bombs. Wasn't the Senate committee hearings humiliating enough? Otani's
eight hundred million dollar contract and these bags they come
(27:53):
on the back of the accomplishments of all these players
and his very hypocritical people. Be real, we know their
steroid users in the Hall of Fame already. With baseball
knee deep in gambling partnerships, the Pete Rose facade is over,
so should the be the ped assassination against the game's greats.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
In case you missed Rob Parker on the MLB networks,
here's his latest appearance on MLBNA.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I say, no way, know how if Pete Rose wasn't
fit when he was alive to be in the Hall
of Fame, it doesn't make any sense to me that
now he's.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Fit because he's dead. The offenses are still the offenses.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And what's the reason of having rules and then acting
like nothing happened because he passed away.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Just none of it makes any sense to me.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I understand partly the commissioners saying, well, he're taking him
off the list.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Because he's not alive anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But it doesn't mean that he should now go on
the ballot or have a chance to get in the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 8 (29:03):
Well, I'll say this, Rob, Rob, I'm not even arguing
against you. I don't thin there's any right or wrong here.
And you make an excellent point. He violated that rule,
you made that decision. He's on the permanently ineligible list.
Why would he come off. But I'll say this, had
he changed his ways at really any point through the
nineteen nineties or after and had copped to it. He
(29:25):
didn't admit to it until two thousand and four, then
he could have been back in the game, and then
you could at least put him on either to the
Baseball Writers or one of these veterans committees and say
you make the call on this, like, shouldn't he get
a the hearing, get the vote at the very least?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Well, he didn't do that, and that's why he forfeits this.
This is you know, when you reinstate somebody And here's
my biggest point on why I disagree with this. If
we found out that someone was wronged or was wrongly accused,
or we had new evidence that maybe Pete Rose didn't
do it or whatever it was, then you.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Go in and correct that. Okay, we have no new evidence. No, no,
he didn't, he didn't. Nothing violated. Yeah, yeah, right, all right?
Speaker 7 (30:12):
Rob?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Wait? Rob, shouldn't he get a vote by.
Speaker 8 (30:15):
But this, this is not this is not placing him
into the Hall of Fame. He didn't fast track into
the hall. He's not being inducted this summer. He's going
to a committee in two years. So that I'm better
with let the Hall of famers themselves. I think there
should be an all Hall of Fame committee like they
did for three times. They voted nobody in let them vote.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
See here here's my issue. Then why even have the rules?
Just this should be no rules.
Speaker 8 (30:43):
They invote the rule, they vote a rule. In nineteen ninety, Rob, Rob,
they didn't have a rule. No one had to tell
Shula Show Jackson was available to be voted on, and
they got like a handful of votes in nineteen thirty six,
I think a forty six as well. But the very
first vote nineteen thirty six got a handful of votes.
But most of the writers are like, no, the writers
could do you who could have said the same thing
in nineteen ninety one. No, and now this wouldn't be
(31:03):
an issue.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, but the only reason is I think baseball at
the time made the right decision. The biggest harm to
the game is the integrity of it. And when you
don't have integrity on what you're watching is real or not,
then you got to ask yourself is this WWE or
is this real? And you can't jeopardize that and the
(31:25):
whole notion every time I hear Pete didn't bet against
the Reds, Pete this, that and the other thing. So
you mean to tell me that a gambler with a
chance to make money is.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Also now he has honor and the last thing he's
going to do is bet against.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
The team when he knows the starting pitcher on his
team is terrible and is going to get lit up tonight.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I mean, come on, yeah with you.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
You're right, You're right.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
What do you vote for the steroid guys?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yes, And I'll tell you why hold on the steroid
guys who never tested positive. And before the rule was
put in, which is two thousand and.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
Follow like it was okay, before the rule was put in,
we know it was. That was again forbidding it's for
voting to have to lie about it to get to
get away with it.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
There though there was no rule on the book. Now
you're kidding, there's no Why didn't add it?
Speaker 8 (32:16):
If there's no rue, what didn't they say? By the way,
I used testosterone. It's great, it's fantastic. It's nineteen ninety eight.
I'm crushing it, boy, I feel great. Why didn't they
admit it? If it was okay, there's no rule.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Okay, it was not okay.
Speaker 8 (32:27):
It was forbidden by the culture, but it was not
okay with the culture to take steroids.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Then it was not, but it.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Wasn't tested for and none of those guys were suspended
by the league. Here's the other thing. To New York
State send you a driving violations for not wearing a
seatbelt from the seventies, even though people didn't wear seatbelts.
Speaker 8 (32:47):
Come on, you don't confuse things you knew you couldn't
do it back then. And by the way, all we're
doing this is what I always say, Rob, I'm choosing
whether or not to honor a player. I choose to
honor Fred mc over the guys who juiced. So it's
four hundred ninety three home runs. They don't look as
good as six point forty or whatever it was that
Sammy So said. Okay, but I'm gonna choose to honor
(33:09):
the guy who played clean.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
No, no, no, I disagree with that, because you're rewarding
people who don't have the statistics based on nothing other
than them being clean, and as a comparison to the
other people you should be in the hall of fame.
The hall of fame should be for extraordinary people who
have done extraordinary things and not broken the rules that
(33:32):
were set before them.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You know this, BK.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
As a reporter, when you walked into a baseball clubhouse,
there was no sign bigger on the wall than the
one about gambling. Baseball was so strong on gambling.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
If you remember the casinos.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
When the casinos.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Opened up and Mickey Manno and Willie Mad's were greeters
in Atlantic City, they banned those guys from any base.
Speaker 8 (33:57):
Not arguing that, yep, I prize at your leniency for
those who clearly violated the norms of the culture back then.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
They clearly did, because.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I didn't vote for Manny Ramires because he got busted
after they put.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Drove the line there. Okay, all right, we can agree
on disagree that largely. I hear what you're saying, but
not the story.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
And you know what, they put it up to a vote,
not a guy to will.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Wind up putting voting for Pete Rose. I just won't
be one of them again. I'll say this last thing.
Speaker 8 (34:27):
Bonds and Clements got on a veterans committee, right, maguire
palmerow They got on a veterans committee, and the answer
was no. The answer is yes or no on Pete Rose.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Steep Rose is different. Pete Rose is different. He was
very popular and he's the all time hit king. I'm
telling you he's different.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And that's why Baseball didn't even leave it up to
the writers, because they did not honor a guy who
against their number one rule. In the words of New
y York TV legend the Lady Bill Jorgensen, thanking you
for your time this time until next time, Rob Parker
(35:06):
out d can't Davin.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
This could be an inside of Parker. See you next week,
same bat time, same bat station.
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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