Clay chats with Mississippi State HC Mike Leach

This week on Wins & Losses, Clay Travis is joined by Mississippi State head football coach Mike Leach for a special edition episode to react to the new Netflix show “Tiger King.” Clay and coach Leach cover the entire storyline, and go in depth on the three main big cat owners: Joe Exotic, Doc Antle and Carole Baskin. Clay also takes to Twitter to get some questions from some of his followers about the show and Clay and coach Leach answer those questions from the audience to close things out. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks
with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome into a special Wins and
Losses podcast. Maybe even want to call it a quarantine

(00:25):
edition because one of the things people have been doing
in massive numbers as they have been quarantined around the
country is watch a lot of streaming shows. And right
now as I'm speaking, the number one show in all
of Netflix, which is sweeping across the nation, is a
show called Tiger King. The title is Tiger King. Tiger King.

(00:47):
Uh it is uh, it is an unbelievable show and
uh and there's so many different directions to to go
with it. But we bring in now the best possible
person I think to break down this show with me.
Mississippi State had football coach Mike Leach. Coaches had gotten used.
Have you gotten used to being called Mississippi State head
football coach yet? Yeah? I come close to misfiring once

(01:10):
or twice in which that happens. And you know, once
in a while, uh, you know, Texas stick can find
its way towards the surface to uh. But no, it's
exciting to be a part of the Mississippi State and
and uh, you know, and we're just looking forward to
getting started, but trying to make the most of this time.

(01:33):
Um you know here that we have off, whether it's uh,
you know, read, more attached to family, more learned something, exercise,
a little, eat healthy. I'm gonna eat healthy, kick um,
watch interesting shows at one show that is not a
waste of time at all. I mean, there may be

(01:54):
some parents out there that may think it is, but uh,
tiger if it is well worth your time because everybody,
I think, you know, wonders, uh you know what exactly
the boundaries the dimension of the human experiences, and this
one definitely explores that. Amen, that's so well said. And

(02:15):
so let's start here if you had I wanted so
for people out there, Uh, I'm assuming almost everybody has
watched it, so obviously there are lots of spoilers here.
So we're talking for an audience. If you haven't watched
The Tiger King yet and you've downloaded this podcast, you
probably should stop right now, go watch it and then
come back and listen. So I'm not gonna say spoiler alert.

(02:35):
We're just gonna talk as if you have watched, if
you're listening right now, all of the different episodes. So
let's start here. Uh did you find Joe Exotic to
be a likable guy? I mean this is essentially the
story of Joe Exotic, a guy who starts a runs
a wildlife park in winn He would I didn't know
how they pronounced it exactly, but Winny would exotic Animal Park. Um.

(02:59):
And if we start off following him, and obviously we
see his ups and downs and it ends with him
in prison. But did you find him to be a
likable person? Likable would be quite strong? Uh, charismatic, yes,
likable No? Uh, I think the guy that his intelligence

(03:23):
and innovation was constantly underestimated. Um, I think that. Uh
it is not a show of likable people. Uh. Uh
you know there's not a bunch of likable people on here. Uh.
I Like the tiger's the best and then uh second best. Uh.
The young lady that got her arm cut off seemed

(03:45):
to be the the one quiet but solo voice of
common sense. Yeah, you know that it's a crazy show.
When the girl who got her arm torn off and
went back to work like five days later, seems like
the most realistic of all of them. So I'll say this,
if you had to work at one of these animal parks,

(04:06):
if you had to work for Joe Exotic, doc Antel
or or you had to work for Carol Baskin? Which
of the these are the three people who run the
animal parks? And what's ironic, of course, as you watch,
is there isn't a whole heck of a lot of
difference between them. Although Carol Baskin tries to make it
out like her situation is so much different than these

(04:26):
guys and the grand scheme of things, she has a
lot more in common with them than she does not
in common. Which of the three do you think you
would prefer to work with? I think Joe Exotic would
be the most exciting. Yeah, I think the most stable
would be Um, the fella at Tell or whatever his

(04:47):
name is in South Carolina. Yeah, Um, I think that. Um,
you know, Carol Baskin, we're still trying to sort out
whether or not she murdered her husband, and there's a
lot of circumstantial evidence that she did. But that thing,
on its face is a fraud because, um, not only
are they in the tiger showing business, Um, but they Uh,

(05:10):
they're not rescuing. They're in a you know, they're in
a profit motivated show. The Tigers just get them for
free business and um and so you know it's, uh
that whole thing, in my mind is kind of based
on a lie, a number of lies. Um. Um they have.
It seems to me they had the worst pens of

(05:32):
the three. Um. You know, so it's once the Tigers
get there, I don't even know that there's quite as
well taken care of as far as space and resource.
But um, and that's hard to compare based on the show.
But um, you know, Uh, the one thing that that
was notable at the beginning, there's this big heavy guy,

(05:55):
a unique looking guy, UM, big heavy guy that says,
you know, in the in the exotic animal industry, there
are you meet all kinds of people. And these people
are different, he says. The monkey people are a little different.
He says, but the big cat people will stab you
in the back in the second and um, the and

(06:19):
they did. I mean it's a constant, uh seven hour
series of people stabbing each other in the back. Uh,
you know, pretty narcissistic group to the point where there's
not really room for anyone else and uh. And you know,
the one thing that was unique about it is whether
you go Joe or Mr Attell or Carol bask and

(06:43):
they all just thrived and craved attention, no matter hardly
what form they got it in. And then, um, the
other guy that I would like to know a little
more about. How about the reporter guy, the Hunter Thompson
looking guy with the hat. Oh yeah, that you know
he knows the producer. Yeah, but his material got destroyed.

(07:07):
Um uh you know, kind of a guy in the
shadows that anyway, So, um, it was a show that
Um okay, So it's very Quentin Tarantino real life. So
think Quentin Tarantino real life. Things so extreme and so
over the top. If you were to make a real

(07:30):
movie out of it, like a movie, a commercial movie, um,
you would have to take the edge off of a
few items and a few coincidental things and a few
things that happened in order to make it realistic enough
that the audience doesn't laugh you out of the cinema.
But the thing is, I mean, right before your eyes,

(07:54):
all this stuff really happened. So you're mentioning. So there's
several different things I want to kind of die then too.
So let's I want to start with this question. You
have worked in some eccentric places, right, you worked at
Texas Tech, you worked at Washington State. Now you're at
Mississippi State as a head coach. Have you ever known
a booster or somebody who was a big supporter of

(08:15):
one of your athletic teams that had a tiger or
had a lion, or had a set up like this?
You know, theres a lot of rich people that decide.
Seems like drug dealers are always deciding to go get
to go, get animals like this. Pablo Escobar had his own,
uh menagerie, you know, down in Colombia. Have you ever
known Felix Felix in Mexico? Did because I watched Narco's

(08:37):
also Felix in Mexico. That's right, That's right? And yeah
how about that? And these guys awful lot of drug
guys in this thing to a lot of drugs. And
I don't know what it is about tigers and drugs,
but um, yeah, have you ever known a booster who
had like a big collection of animals like this? You
ever go to somebody's house and think, my god, I

(08:59):
can't leave you know this guy lives in a place
like this. Um No, I have not um one time,
and I don't know Ted Nugent, but uh twice there's
been a little bit of talk of going hunting on
Ted Nugent's ranch. Um, which I've never done. But you know,

(09:23):
this is a big ranch and mainly the kind of
the game animals, the hoofed game animals. You know, it's
kind of some of the business he does. And then um,
but no, I can't say that I have, you know, shoot,
so the people I know, I might add the most

(09:44):
exotic pet of all of them. Um, I had a
raccoon when I was a kid. But um oh, okay,
here's one for you, um um. And sadly, the monkey
died pretty much of old age. I believe my friend

(10:04):
Pat Night, Bobby Knight's son, who was a basketball coach
at Tech when I was there, remains a good friend.
About a place in Panama City, about a house, And
in between these two houses was a dock, and on
the dock was a world class tiki bar just that

(10:25):
the neighbors used, okay, and they would just go out
there and watch the world go by and hang out
at the tiki bar. And they are all these regulars
that have been going there for years, which Pat kind
of connected to. And uh and then of course they
had free permission to come and go from the Monkey Bar,

(10:46):
and they helped out looking after his house in between times.
And they had this monkey there that's kind of a
rangitang type of monkey. And the monkey just lived there
in the Monkey Bar and let him out of his
cage have drinks. And you know, there was a monkey
and monkey lived in the Monkey Bar for years, years
before Pat even got there. And uh so, uh he

(11:10):
could say that he sort of had a monkey for
a while, although that monkey was well on his way
to being taken care of and had a lot of
well wishing handlers around him. Did you visit and hang
out at the Tikey Bar at some point or do
you just hear about it. I've always wanted to and
I'll start thinking about it getting excited about it. Have

(11:32):
you send pictures of the Monkey Bar? The hurricane got
the Monkey Bar, then they rebuilt the Monkey Bar. Uh.
It is kind of a bucket list item to go
hang out with Pat night at the Monkey Bar. And
Pat's in Vegas now, but I don't think he gets

(11:52):
the Monkey Bar as much as he'd like, but uh,
I would definitely like to check that out. The Monkey's gone. Now, yeah,
well in Panama City Beach, that's not far. I mean,
I you have to shoot me a text. I'll go too,
because that's close to where I'm down on the beach.
A lot down there as well. All Right, So here's
my first question, because I was talking to my wife,
we were watching this together, and they're like, you know,

(12:13):
Carol Baskins talking about how awful doc Antle's places and
also Joe Exotics, and I'm assuming doc Antle Place. Doc
Antle's Place is still open. I kind of want to go.
I mean, I I want to go visit this place
because having watched it, you know, Joe Exotics Place is
clearly shut down. And I didn't really like Carol Baskin.

(12:33):
I wouldn't want to give her any money, but I
kind of would want to go to the doc Antle place.
Would you be if you were in South Carolina and
you were close by, would that be something that you
were interested in doing, going to visit the Tiger Park?
I probably would. I mean, and now there may be
lines up the door with oh, no doubts he could
get yeah. Uh they said at the end, you know,

(12:55):
the caption at the end that uh may or may
not still be an operation. But um and his look
to be kind of the and the best, uh the
best organized, you know. And and he did seem to
be well, okay, now he's got some wild proclivities too.
I lost track of how many wives. But and he

(13:18):
puts them all to work. You know, if you go
to work, you do a good job, you're gonna be
one of his wives. And then um, uh yeah, but
it kind of looked like he was sort of organized
what he's doing. Where Joe exotic, you know, he got
into a lot of things, you know, rands are all
kinds of public office. Uh. And and then of course,

(13:40):
I'll tell you the best scene in the movie, the
best scene in the whole movie is uh where you know,
he catches on or get some information about Carol Best
and uh allegedly or possibly murdering her husband. And then
he does the song fancies himself as a country West's unbelievable, Yes,

(14:04):
and does here Kitty Kitty, and it's a video. It's
a video where he portrays her feeding her husband to
her tigers. It's an incredible music video. I mean, his
music in general, I think might become incredibly popular now
because the videos themselves. I mean, you can't even make
up the ideas of stuff that he came up with

(14:26):
in so many different respects. I mean, Mike the eulogy,
the eulogy that he gave for one of his two husbands, Travis,
who tragically shot himself. I was like, this is the
most unbelieving and then he started singing. I was like,
this is the most unbelievable thing I've ever seen. And
I was watching and they're probably a lot of young
single women who have watched this too, and they're probably

(14:49):
thinking of themselves. Wait a minute, Joe Exotic convinced two
straight men, three straight men, at least two straight men
to marry him. And there's a lot of single women
out there, like I can't even get a man, and
somehow Joe Exotic got a couple of men. I mean,
I don't even understand how that happened. Well, it sounded
like drugs was a big part of Well there could

(15:10):
that could be that could be a big part of it.
So prison and drugs, you know, it's like, uh, you
need somebody that needs you more than uh, you need them,
so you get these guys got out of prison and
then UM and then uh you know, load up and
fuel their drug habit, and then the mixture of firearms
with it. He had it all together. He had it

(15:33):
all combined, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and drugs, and then um, insects,
all devices, all devices, uh you know, culminate all together
and then UM and then uh and the the l
and you know he's the one stop guy. He got

(15:54):
pizza with outdated meat from Walmart scene. I think that's them.
I think that's maybe the most amazing scene in the
whole thing, where they pull up the outdated meat truck
from Walmart and the customers sorry that the employees go
through it first and find out the stuff that they
like the best, and then they throw the rest into
a big dumpster basically to go take and feed the tigers.

(16:16):
I mean that that scene is like, you couldn't make
that up. And then they decided to get into pizza
business and they start serving pizza with expired meat from Walmart.
And they don't forget that they're in the underwear business too.
Forgot about the undernew you know, it was the ultimate
mill Murray scene. You know, I seldom were underwear. If

(16:36):
I do, it's usually something unusual, you know, and and
and you know chicks and dig me. Well uh and
Joe made a clear uh he he never wore underwear,
but he would sell some tiger looking underwear, you know,
kind of uh marble sex style underwear. And then uh

(16:56):
uh yeah. You know one thing that I felt like
I missed on the thing that I definitely wanted to
see if I wanted to know all the stuff they
were selling in that souvenir shop, and I'd freeze it.
I'd try to check out, you know, beyond t shirts
and then underwhere he showed us at himself. You and

(17:17):
you know that the uh his country music videos were
for sale there. But I wanted to know what all
that shop and tailed two. All right, let's start with
each of the tiger people, right, I just want to
talk about each of them individually. Here, Carol Baskin, doc Ansel,
We've talked a little bit about him already, Joe Exotic,
but let's start with Carol Baskin. Carol like the box

(17:39):
like so this this show in general, it's crazy, and
it just keeps building on the layers of crazy. And
when they said I don't remember it was the end
of episode two or episode three where they're like, oh, yeah,
Carol Baskin, she killed her husband, Like that was the
accusation they made about him. That was an unbelievable bombshell
to just get through own into the show, right because

(18:01):
it was already crazy enough. And remember and you wonder
who fed Joe exotics that information that he capitalized on,
which you gotta believe it was her her husband's family. Yeah,
I mean, and so what do you think have so
in general, if you and you know, you've you've watched

(18:23):
murder mysteries forever, You've seen the forty eight hours, you know,
all the murder investigations, everything else. If somebody is a
multimillionaire and they disappear and no one knows where they went,
and somebody else is inheriting millions of dollars, potentially tens
of millions of dollars, it was unclear exactly what his
assets were worth, it's almost like nine nine point nine

(18:47):
percent chance that the person who is inheriting all the
money in some way like it's in other words, what
I'm saying is it would be incredibly rare for someone
who has threatened, according to a police report, to kill
her husband already, for somebody who has been talking about
getting a divorce, for that guy to truly just disappear,

(19:07):
and for her to have nothing at all to do
with it and know nothing about it, seems to strain
the limits of credulity. Would you agree with that? In general?
Can't prove it, but it definitely seems highly improbable that
that would be the case. Well, one question I had
is how did he get his pilot's license and then
lose it the same day? That was weird? Uh? And

(19:29):
then um and then she did lay out a scenario
of flying over the Gulf and him getting shoved out
of a plane and how she would know that or
even think to that? And then um uh. And then
of course Joe Exotic thinks that she uh fitting to
the tigers put it under or put him under the

(19:52):
sewer or whatever it was like the sewer, and then
um and then you knows is Carol would talk and evade.
And I don't want to get political at this at all,
but if she would talk and evade, UM, I couldn't
help but think of of one maybe more uh. Recent

(20:17):
politician Hillary Clinton. I got blown up with that that
people said that Carol Baskin reminded them a ton of
Hillary Clinton. Remember the way she met this guy. First
of all, she broke up his marriage. Okay, now he
may not have been a great husband anyway, But the
way they met, according to her story, was he was
driving down the road late at night, she was walking.

(20:38):
She was walking along the side of the road. He
pulled up beside her and tried to get her to
get in the car three different times, and then finally
said you can hold this gun and pointed at me,
and they just drove around and talked all night, and
then they ended up sleeping together and he left his
wife for that has to be You've You've heard a
lot of reasons in a lot of ways that people
have met, you know, when couples get together and they're like, well,

(21:00):
how did you guys meet? I was walking on the
side of the road. He picked me up, gave me
a gun, told me I could shoot him, and instead
we ended up getting married. Has to be one of
the most unbelievable couple stories of all time checked up
line and afro Jesiac of all time. Okay, um here
we'll drive around and you can point a gun at me. Okay,

(21:23):
how about that? I mean, uh, now you don't see
that every day. And so they end up getting married
and they're together for a long time, and she sort
of slowly and and and it seemed like, uh, you know,
they told her story a little bit. She obviously had
as sort of a tortured background as a as a
young girl, but it certainly seemed like and again, it's

(21:46):
not just him that the two daughters, the former, the
ex wife, all of them basically said straight up they
believed that she killed him. Yeah, and they think Carol's
family it was perhaps her dad, uh dad brother, perhaps
the cottage industry. I don't know, but you know, they

(22:06):
they start with following the money and and then of
course there's nobody, so then that uh makes the evidence
of course and if but um, you don't showing feeling
like she's innocent and then uh uh but yeah it was.

(22:28):
And how about this, Okay, Um, all three of them
loved getting married. Carol loved getting married, too, Exotic love
getting married, and Doc loves getting married. Uh, nobody loves
getting married, like the big chat group. That's a good point.
And I think it goes to your sort of character analysis,

(22:50):
which is these people just want so much attention, and
the Tigers bring them that level attention that maybe they
can't find otherwise. Now, on Carol, in addition to the
fact that she may have killed her husband, that he's
vanished and nobody knows what happened to him, the guy
that she ended up marrying seemed pretty weird, didn't he, Like,
I mean even like putting the like she had him

(23:12):
on a chain, the walking him around like he seemed
like a pretty weird dude too, didn't he. Yeah, very
all kinds of bondage, Jimmy, just uh uh run to
your mind with Carol on top and uh possibly putting
him in a cage, all kinds of you know, umut

(23:34):
pretty well stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, you can't help but
think of wacky sex sexual proclivities with regard to this.
Clearly she wants to uh things, wants to be a
dominator and this guy's just uh seemed like kind of
meet guy. Yeah whatever you say, whatever you say. Uh,

(23:57):
you know, maybe a mask involved, which oldly did haven
us We already know masks are involved, but uh uh
you know all the stuff, you know, all right, So
anything else about Carol Baskin that stood out to you?
And obviously the lawsuit, I mean you're a lawyer, I'm
a lawyer. Um. You know, it was clear that Joe
Joe was Joe exotic, was trying to antagonize them. And

(24:21):
again they had the resources, either because of the money
that they're bringing in through Big Cat Rescue or because
of the money that she inherited from her husband to
basically be able. You've seen this happen before, where when
somebody has the legal chops to be able to go
after or somebody else, they just they just kind of
open up double barrels. I mean he said he spent

(24:41):
I think the subservient husband there said they spent over
a million dollars in legal fees. I mean that's crazy
when you consider what was at stake in their dispute. Well,
there's that and the fact that it probably wasn't her
money to begin with. But um and then uh but
no Carol constant agenda person uh uh predator almost like

(25:06):
those tigers thinking one step ahead and uh, well down
our list of saving tigers. Oh. I don't think there's
any doubt at all about that, be sure, to catch
live editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis weekdays
at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking to
Mike Leach. I'm Clay Travis. This is a wins and
Losses podcast focused on, uh, the new hit Netflix series

(25:30):
that everybody is watching during the quarantine. Uh. And that
series is, of course, uh, Tiger King. Um. Alright, So
Carol Baskin ends up bankrupting basically Joe Exotic and setting
everything off into a into a spiral. Then you got
doc Antle. We talked about him a little bit. You
said you'd like you'd go visit the Tiger Place. I

(25:53):
said I would go. Um. It appears that he's still
open and in business. Um. And he basically has a
tiger cult that it appears that he's created where all
these young attractive women come there and work and he
ends up marrying them. The one thing we didn't get
from him is do we get a sense for how
many kids he has? They showed a kid. Didn't get

(26:13):
a sense of kids. Uh. He seemed to have a cleaner,
well organized place. Uh. The other thing that's amazing is
how obsessed these because this Tiger business is a lifestyle.
I mean, you're it's kind of your seven in the
tiger business. And the most amazing thing is, uh, how
hello the wages are You've got to love living in

(26:35):
a trailer or a shack and getting up and feeding
and walking tigers every day in order to do this,
because you know, those tigers got to eat and um
and uh, you know the uh No, it's a lifestyle
that it looks like these people get consumed and obsessed with.

(26:56):
And I think that clearly other people could. I mean,
if it's you know, attracts, uh, it's almost it's kind
of like pain pills. You know. I know people uh
that haven't been able to kick pain pills. And then
you know, and then there's others that are like me
and my daughter, for example, and she's a doctor, we've

(27:18):
never gotten through a bottle of pain pills. You know,
you take a pain pill, you get something where you
take a pain pills and I can't sleep on them.
You know, my my eyes go half mass and I
end up stand up all night watching TV. I feel
like I'm two sentences behind and just get tired of
feeling like that, Like I can't think quickly and I've

(27:43):
never finished the bottle. I've maybe made it to three
of them before. I just you know, go through whatever
pain I have and take tile at all. But I
think this tiger business is like that that some people
can get addicted to them, and um and uh and yeah,

(28:04):
a lot of times there people that are looking for
something and just want like certainly Joe Exotics, people were
looking for something and just wanted somebody to love them
and to be a part of something important or that
they felt was important. And so we're willing to sacrifice
everything else to do that. Um and then um some

(28:27):
similar things with doc um. Now docs groups seemed to
be a happier group for what we saw, and then
um they and of course he did not trust Carol
Baskin at all. And then uh and then it seems
like that his uh Joe might have been one of

(28:47):
his proteges. And then um, um the other thing that
I was curious about. And they did not suggest any
of this. None of them did. As far as getting
attached or wounded by a tiger, just some tiger twisting off.
I expected that we had the one person who yeah, right,
I mean they showed the one scene where Joe gets

(29:08):
attacked and he blamed him for putting like perfume on
his shoe or whatever it was. And then we obviously
knew the employee there, who was maybe the most realistic
and normal of Joe's employees, got her arm torn off.
But in general, it seemed like they were surrounded by
tigers quite a bit, and the stories of the tigers
kind of going Siegfried and Roy on them or whatever
didn't seem common. By the way, Doc also changed the

(29:32):
names of all of the women. Remember they they changed
their names to sound more exotic. And then the one
girl that they got out of basically said, hey, this
was a cult. She got out of it. She said
that he also got her breast implants, like they were
paying the girls a hundred dollars a week or whatever
craziness she was saying. They were getting paid. But then
they also said, hey, if you get breast implants, you

(29:54):
get extra days off to recover. I guess because he
thought that aid that added to the overall ambiance of
his of his brand and uh. But but that in
and of itself was a crazy detail that I feel like,
among so many other crazy details, it didn't even get
explored that much. It was just like something, Hey, oh,
here's another crazy thing, and then you skip off in
another directions. Well, there were so many details there. It

(30:17):
sounds like because you could have done you could have
done a seven hour documentary on any one of these.
And if they branch off and do them, I'll watch
them too. And and uh the you know everything from
murder investigation with Carol and where all those uh donations

(30:41):
for tiger rescuer going while the doors are open and
and she's doing the exact same thing Joe exotic and
talk are with regards to the commercial uh interest in
the tiger business. And then uh uh and then the
other amazing thing is and the one guy touched on it.

(31:03):
But you can't they transplant some of these tigers to
the wild if we have a shortage, Joe, I mean,
I totally wondered about that too, because they said in
the opening, they said that there are more thousand in
the wild, four thousand in the wild and something like
seven to ten thousand in the United States. That's right,

(31:23):
So there are more privately owned tigers in the United
States than currently exist in the wild. That's one of
the most unbelievable stats I've ever heard. All Right, let's
go to Let's go to Joe Exotic. So we start
off the program obviously with Joe Exotic and his and
his zoo there um and so many different directions that
this thing goes in. But Joe has a double marriage

(31:45):
to to two other men, neither one of whom is
claiming that they're actually gay. So that's an unbelievable beginning. Well,
insisting that they are gay, Yeah, they aren't gay, and
then wanted to keep Joe happy and wanted me up,
you know. So it's it's that's an unbelievable aspect of
this story. One of them commits suicide. They have the funeral,

(32:08):
and it was one of the most cringe worthy, awkward
funerals I've ever seen where he did. Do you think
he deliberately committed suicide? Well, we did. The only thing
we saw was the video. You think he was just
trying to draw attention? Well, because because what I'm thinking,
because it sounded like he would play with guns, yeah,

(32:29):
all day, play with uh the A t vs all day, Uh,
play with guns all day, you know, just gonna have
a free for all and play camp there at the Tiger.
Because it didn't sound like he did much work, But
he loved flashing around guns and taking drugs. And I
think it's possible that as you're playing, and he'd played

(32:52):
pranks with loaded guns, like point him at people and
everything else, which when I was a kid, you didn't
even point a dart gun at somebody. And and um
um uh, you know, as he's all hopped up doing this,
did he just forget that the thing was loaded and
carried his stick a little too far and and accidentally

(33:13):
shot himself through the head. I don't know. I think
that I think that's more likely than I mean, it's
hard to know because we saw, you know, however many
minutes of his life that it was, But it didn't
seem like there wasn't a suggestion that he had previously
tried to commit suicide or anything like that. But I
don't know that I've ever seen a eulogy, or that
any eulogy has ever existed in all time where part
of the eulogy is about how the guy liked to

(33:35):
put his balls on everybody's face. Do you see that
that eulogy it was a lot more about Joe Exotic
than it was the departed. Oh, there's no doubt. And
then he finds a new boyfriend, like two meant two
months later, who is who's another younger guy like I. I
I don't even understand how that was possible that he
met that he met on the internet. Uh, so Joe

(33:57):
is there. And then my favorite care of all that
was at Joe's place was his campaign manager. The campaign
manager that he met at the Walmart in the ammunition
aisle was I think one of the most unbelievable characters
in this UH, in this entire episode, Joshua dial Uh.

(34:18):
He was he to know more about him? I thought
he was incredible. Um he had some of the best
lines in the whole place, and he and he thought
he was really gonna run a campaign that he met
the guy who's running for office in the UH, in
the UH in the actual Walmart ammunition aisle. And I've
got a great quote from him. But you had to

(34:39):
be as a guy who is who's probably got some
libertarian leanings in general, like I do. You had to
find that guy to be just a little bit entertaining
in general. Right, he is outstanding and also seemed like
a a fairly intelligent guy, although a little off base.
Um uh. And I wonder if he's running campaigns somewhere

(35:00):
in the state Oklahoma right now. But uh, and then, uh,
it would be interesting to know more about him. And
uh it's almost like uh breaking bad series that that
that that happens even more quickly, more suddenly, with even

(35:26):
more bizarre twists and turns and um. But yeah, he
sounded like a guy that just wanted to run campaigns
and uh. And the one thing about Joe exotic as
he did have the ability uh put an umbrella over
people and motivate a various uh directions for his self

(35:49):
interest and uh and had quite a menagerie of him.
He had a great line the campaign manager did I'm
a libertarian? Like he went through this whole line up
of thing I'm a libertarian, so funk the government. That
was a campaign manager. I mean, there were some incredible
lines that he broke down there. But in a in
a show full of crazy characters, he was definitely one

(36:11):
of the most unbelievable of them. Uh. And then so
as if we weren't having enough that's going on there
all of the and there are a lot like you
mentioned guys who in the girls who are looking for
a place. They said, he hired a lot of these,
a lot of former convicts, a lot of people with
a lot of other without a lot of other options.

(36:33):
So ultimately he ends up in a problem because he
brings in this guy Jeff. Now, I don't know how
Jeff in and of itself. I thought. Another of the
most remarkable details was they decided they were going to
have a Las Vegas bus service where you could go
from one place to another and they would have baby
tiger cubs that you could hold, and they got somebody

(36:54):
to invest in it, and then it didn't didn't work
very well. It's one of the most unbelievable business ideas
I've ever heard. It sounded like strippers and baby tigers
and um. And then of course, you know, and so
that guy's a swinger, you know, and he's got his
wife who um, and I don't know if she led

(37:15):
the charge on that or he did. I have to
suspect him. And then um, you know, getting uh now,
he's the one guy that didn't marry every um love
interest that he ran into and um, but it wasn't
going to be deprived nevertheless, and then uh, well in

(37:37):
in the end, which without any real evidence, but a
lot of people on the show. I think he's just
a straight con man and again a convict, and then
um uh, it'd be interesting to know where he is now. Well,
what's crazy is there are so many things that are
insane in this show that putting baby tigers into luggage

(37:58):
and rolling him through Las Vegas Cassine knows. I was like, yeah, totally,
I can totally see that happening. It didn't even like
most of the time, if you found out that somebody
you knew was doing that, that would be the craziest
detail you've ever heard. It didn't even factor for him.
I mean at the end, the girl that he's with
is having a baby and he's talking about how he
picked the best looking nanny possible, uh to uh to

(38:20):
be with him. So but he shows up at this
car park in a Ferrari, Now was a rented Ferrari.
But I don't even you're you were in Oklahoma for
a while. I mean, how is it possible that a
Ferrari even ends up there? And then somehow he ends
up in control of this wildlife park and they're starting
to build a new one, and he decides he's gonna
send Joe Exotic to jail, and I mean, the whole

(38:40):
thing is just crazy. I still don't understand how he
escaped charges and how the other guy did as well.
It sounded to me like they just decided they were
gonna set up Joe Exotic for doing something other than
the you know, murder for higher but he'd been talking
about that wildly for a long time. But the selling
of the of the tiger cubs and everything else, it
sounds like almost everybody does that. Well, they all turned

(39:03):
on him except for his most recent husband or wife
or whatever you call. And then, um, the and one
thing I've always loved about Oklahoma, like when I coached there. Stuff.
First of all, you can get a Ferrari somewhere in
Oklahoma because there's a lot of money in Oklahoma. Now
it goes all extremes. There's a certain amount of poverty,

(39:25):
but then there's over the top money. Oil man. Man,
there's a lot of oil people still in Oklahoma. Yeah,
and some of them land people too. But um, and
the thing that it was always fairly captivating about Oklahoma,
which you'd have the the extreme contrast of the super

(39:46):
rich and the super poor, and then in between, whether
it was the less affluent trying to major up with
the affluent without the means. Um ah, you'd have kind
of you could have over the top uh clothing say,

(40:08):
or haircuts or hats or over the top because you know,
folks in Oklahoma can really dress down as their salted.
The one thing about Oklahoma the friendliest, the friendliest, greatest people. Okay,
just friendly, good people, good hearts and that type of thing.

(40:30):
But then uh, you know some over the top something
or uh you know, maybe whether it's something the fastened
to their trucks that's unique or uh, I don't know
how to call it, but accessories and do Dad's exists
in Oklahoma that are unique, I would say to most

(40:52):
other states, you know, and um like, I'll tell you
if you want to see some just some interesting, captivating
stuff because they're like museums, a big truck stuff in
the state of Oklahoma. They'll have stuff that uh some
cases that will discuss you. In some cases, uh, you'll say, oh,

(41:15):
I have to have it, but what are you gonna
do with it? You know? But I have to have
it well, and it would just be so unique in
such a way. Um Uh. When I was in Oklahoma
and I got there kind of just after some of
this started, but it was still going on. The greatest

(41:36):
thing on earth to listen to was r D Mercer tapes.
There was a guy named rd Mercer or a radio figure,
and I suspect the reason they don't do them now
is because, you know, the cat got out of the bag.
After a while, they got to knowing who the guy was.
But this guy would, uh, this radio host would pretend

(41:56):
he's r D Mercer and do prank phone calls to uh,
you know, various people and set them up and have
you know, layout some scenario effects and you know, you
always you always at some point soon, Well how about
if I come over there and whip your ass and uh,

(42:17):
you know, and uh he'd lead into it. Well, how
big a boy are you? Well, I can be there
in ten minutes, you know, Uh that type of thing,
you know. And uh, are anybody that has not heard
r D Mercer taps or recordings you have to immediately
go get him. Check him out on the net. Really

(42:39):
outstanding and um and uh, you know, just down the streets.
Uh kind of some of the fun and humor in
the state of Oklahoma. What when you were when you
were in Oklahoma. If you were still in Oklahoma, do
you think this is the kind of place you could
have found yourself at your out on the road recruiting
or whatever and you dry, I pie, wouldn't it be

(43:01):
hard not to go to this random I'll tell you
because I was down and we went to Mexico last year.
We've been going to Mexico with the kids, like once
football season is over. And they have a place down
there called Croco Cancoon. Right, it's like a crocodile park
outside of Cancoon. And I posted a video from this thing,
and I'm there with my kids. You know, I got three,

(43:22):
three boys, so they're excited to get to see all
the animals and everything else. And there's no way they'd
let you do this in America. But you walk through
the Croco Cancoon and these are crocodiles, not alligators, and
they just let you walk through this walkway and there
are crocodiles everywhere right in America they would never let
you do this, right, and you don't you just got

(43:42):
a goal? Well I say that. Now if you go
to the Oki Finoki Swamp, which because held alf State
was right by the swamp, yeah, you'll get really close
to some just monster alligator? You've done that, You've been out?
Have you ever gone out for alligator or anything? Always
wanted to? Never did. Yeah, I'd like to try it

(44:03):
sometime too. I mean, I think it would be terrifying.
But I watched the Swamp People show and I thought
it would be pretty cool to go out and try
to try to hunt for alligators. And I know people
that have. And then I'll tell you the other thing
that it's crossed my mind and I don't have a
story on it. Somehow, I would be surprised. I'd be

(44:28):
very surprised. You know, all the people I know in Oklahoma,
and hopefully they'll call me and tell me the story.
I would be extremely surprised. If I don't know somebody
that doesn't know Joe Exotic, that hasn't met Joe Exotic.
Um uh and um yeah I would Uh. I'll bet

(44:57):
somebody has. For all I know was no, you Booster,
I don't know. Do you think that do you think
he'll spend the rest of his What did you think
about that we didn't get to see the one thing
I wish that we didn't get to see that. I
felt like it was a real hindrance was there was
no cameras in the courtroom, so we didn't get the
opportunity to actually see all of the testimony and see

(45:21):
any of the highlights of that. They just show the
drawings and everything else. Do you what did you think
of the case that we and again we just saw
the sketches and the outline of it. But what did
you think of the case that the government brought to
bear against Joe Exotic. It seemed to me like there
were a lot of loopholes. It seemed to me like
there was a lot of reasonable doubt there. And it's

(45:41):
almost impossible for me to say because you know, again
there's no evidence. You know, they we really don't know
what the evidence was. They gave him twenty two years.
I don't really know what the evidence was, of which
he probably won't serve twenty two years. Uh, I don't
know the exact evidence. It looked like a lot of
people turned on him, and some of them it sounded

(46:02):
like me have embellished their story a little bit. And
then the one guy without the legs, they didn't talk
to him, and even he had his legs decorated and
accessorized up and then um uh, his artificial limbs. And then, um,
so I was curious about the case and curious about

(46:22):
the fact I am against cameras in the courtroom. Um,
I thought I was in favor of it. You know,
when I was initially in law school, I thought I
was in favorite of cameras in the courtroom. But I
think what happens and courts need to still be you
know public, Like if you line up at the door
and you go, you should be allowed to attend. But

(46:44):
when they put him on TV, then there's a certain
amount of witnesses and judges and attorneys that developed what
I call lancedo syndrome where, um, you know, for the
O J Trial, where it became a lot more important
to cater to the camera than the the case, and

(47:09):
a certain number of witnesses and people ended up in
that trial, I believe, um because they had the opportunity
to be on TV without anything that really a substance
to say. And uh, everybody's trying to respond and behave
to the camera, which I don't think is healthy. Another

(47:31):
trial back then that was a little like that was
the William Kennedy Smith trial. I thought, oh, the worst
of all time, the worst of all times, the An
and Nicole Smith trial, well, you know, the judge would
start sobbing at the bench and I mean all the stuff,

(47:51):
and he personally wanted to question it, I mean, his
way out of head. Uh So, we don't know how
long Joe Exotic is going to be in uh in prison.
And it's hard, like you said, even you know, from
a lawyer perspective, of a legal perspective, to figure out
exactly what the evidence was. But if you remember, like,
did you watch Making a Murderer back in the day,

(48:12):
the one the other one that kind of caught fire
on Netflix about about the people up in Wisconsin. Yeah,
I did. Uh So if you remember that I watched
the Robert Durst the Roberts Outstanding, Yeah, yeah. And if
you remember both of those, they basically reignited the legal
process completely. And I feel like, to a large extent,

(48:34):
that could happen here too. I feel like with Carol Baskin,
there's certainly a possibility that this re energizes effort and
energy and trying to figure out what happened to her husband.
And I also feel like there are a lot of
people who are going to have watched this and found
based on the way that this story was told, that
Joe Exotic, they felt like was kind of the fall guy.

(48:56):
When you look at Jeff and the other kind of
shady character whose name I forget, the Jeff's friend that
he brought up that ended up testifying against him, it
kind of felt like they were setting up Joe Exotic,
and so it just felt and then the other guy,
like I thought, the funniest scene in the whole place,
and I'm forgetting this guy's name, the sort of chunky
guy with the funky haircut who was on the jet

(49:18):
ski at the end, you know, like kind of talking
about oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the guy that says,
you gotta be careful at Tiger, people will stab you
right in the back. Yeah. That that guy was. I
mean it was like Kenny Powers, you know, riding around
on the jet ski there. It was almost too much.
When I watched that it was in slow motion. I mean,
it was it was an incredibly Uh I have no

(49:39):
idea where he was riding a jet ski. I guess
on a lake in Oklahoma. Maybe we didn't even really
find that out, but I thought that entire process was
just utterly, utterly absurdly hysterical. Yeah, there's a few good
lakes in Oklahoma, Tin Killer Lake. That's a lot of fun.
Uh the yeah, I don't, I don't know what like

(50:01):
it was very kinny powers, sunglasses and all. I bet Joey,
I bet joe Exotic would talk to us. Uh, if
we went and met Hiven in prison, I'll bet you
he'd be happy to talk to us, would take that trip.
And I mean, you know, you've got you've got like
Carol Baskin with you know, the whole deal on her

(50:23):
husband lingering out there. But even even if that may
get reignited, and even if she thinks it might get reignited. One,
I think she's arrogant enough that she thinks that she's untouchable.
But then the other thing, I think the attention surrounding
this thing would be irresistible to her, and no matter

(50:44):
what happened, she wouldn't be able to you know, she
wouldn't be able to resist flying into the flame with
regard to the attention that's generated by this thing. Oh,
I don't have any doubt. Fox Sports Radio has the
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to

(51:05):
listen live. I'm Clay Travis is Wins and Losses. Uh,
Mike Leach with this Mississipi State football coach. We're talking
about uh the new uh the new Sweeping Sensation viral
uh documentary that is on Netflix. Uh. Joe Exotic is
the Star, Tiger King is the is the show? Um? Alright,

(51:25):
So a couple of last thoughts here, and there may
be other things you wanted to talk about as well,
but I jotted down notes as I was watching it. Um,
what do you think about the You mentioned Rick that
the sort of the documentary guy, and how he was
kind of the the voice of normalcy in many ways.
Rick Kirkham was his name, He was that, he had
a great voice, and he was the guy who used

(51:46):
to be a reporter. What do you think happened with
the burning down of the of the studio and everything
that was inside. Um? Do you wonder if it was
some insurance thing? Was the first thing that came to
my mind. And then they said, uh, we know it
was Arson, we just don't know who did it. I

(52:06):
think we have a pretty good idea who did it?
I mean, they would controlled everything around there. I mean,
I can't prove it, but I think it was probably
Joe Exotic. But yes, even in the video it looked
a little bit like him. And then I guess my
final thought is and then he had there was something.
There was some dialogue. I can't remember what he said.
It's something to the effect of, well it was mine

(52:28):
anyway or something like that or anyway where both with
regard to um, Carol's potentially murdering your husband, there was
some foreshadowing type of comments. And then the same way
with burning down that that that studio. One thing with

(52:52):
that reporter. It seems to me that that guy, you know,
being a reporter and then having been there and having
filmed it and having lived it to a point, would
probably have some interesting insights. Maybe not correct on all
of them, but um if he were to, you know,

(53:13):
give what his thoughts were on it. Maybe not a
hundred percent true, but his thoughts I think would be
kinny interesting. No, I think that would be fascinating. And
my final thought, I guess is the guy who filmed
this documentary, I don't have any idea. We never saw him, Yeah,
we just saw him a couple of times. I kind
of want to know his story, because we know he
started off kind of doing a story on exotic animals,

(53:35):
because if you remember, early on, there was like a leopard,
a white leopard or something like that in the back
of a guy's van, and uh, and they had some
snakes and everything else. And then somehow that led him
to Joe Exotic, which led him into the story of
trying to explore these big cat people and why they
were such interesting and intriguing characters in their own right.

(53:58):
But how did that story kind of come about for him?
How many hours would he spend? How many hours was
he there? Uh? I mean this had to be something
that he's spending a decade on or five years. I
thought he said five years. Yeah, he might have said
five years, but I mean, the the amount of footage
that he didn't put into this documentary had to be unbelievable. Yeah,

(54:22):
I mean, can you imagine sifting through all that and
you know it's uh, it's something wild every day and
and these guys are all such consummate liars in many ways, right,
it's hard to figure out what's true and what's false.
All of the detail work, you know, when you hear, oh,
this woman killed her husband, and you know all the
background of Joe Exotic and and the and the guy

(54:44):
who's got the harem down in South Carolina doc. I mean,
these people are so incredibly wild and crazy that it's
hard to be able to distinguish truth from why. And
that's ultimately the goal of a documentary filmmaker. I would
think that's almost imp sible for him. Yeah, and then
there were some rare cases on it that, um, they're

(55:06):
so insulated within their life, you know that they've manufactured
for themselves that there were some things that although I
don't believe we're true, I think occasionally, uh that they
thought they were true or had themselves convinced it was true. Yeah,

(55:28):
I don't think. I don't think there are any doubts
at all. Do you want to do a Do you
want to do a lightning round? I could go on
social media right now and be like, do you have
questions for us about Tiger King, and we could go
through lightning round or if you've got time, we were
also good. I think we've all talked about it too.
It's your call. We can do lightning around, all right,
let's do lightning around. I'm getting on Twitter right now

(55:48):
and I'm gonna say we are currently taping the Tiger
King Podcast special. What questions do you have for Coach?
Leach and I fire away want to make sure we
don't miss anything. Drew wants to know, Uh, Coach, when
are you and Gardner Minshew gonna open your own zoo
in Florida. I'll tell you that'd be a fun zoo.
And uh, that'd be a fun zoo. It would be

(56:12):
more like, uh, if I were to do something like that,
it would be like a just a cool, really cool
natural habitat that already has a certain amount, um, you know,
where they can run wild out there, you know, so
you you fence out your house so something that can't
come get you. But um, you know, you can go

(56:35):
kind of safarian out there and check out what's out there,
you know, and maybe go camp out there a little bit.
If you could have any exotic animal, if you could
own any exotic animal yourself, you could have it down
in Starkville. Which exotic animal do you think you would want? Well,

(56:56):
the most exotic I've had is a raccoon, and that
would fit in good And start really think yeah, uh,
but that's not really that difficult to take care of,
right A raccoon is like in the grand thing. I
would imagine you would know better than me, But it's
not that tough right now. You just let them run
around with the cats and dogs, and if you want
to bring them in the house, you go ahead. And
they'll pull all the spots and pans out of the

(57:18):
cupboards because they love shiny stuff. And they'll go almost entranced,
insane with all the shiny pots and pans, and they'll
clank them all over and they can get to the
top shelf, to make no mistake about that. And then
um uh, it was a kid. I always wanted a chimpanzee.
Now I wouldn't want to have the responsibility of taking

(57:41):
care of a chimpanzee, but it would be very fun
to know that you have a chimpanzee for a patch,
you know, and uh, you know, your little sidekick alter
ego type of guy. Be sure to catch live editions
about kick the coverage with Clay Travis week days at
six am Eastern re Am Pacific. All right, we got

(58:02):
a bunch of questions rolling in you can follow by
the way, Mike Leach tell him you enjoyed our conversation
here at Coach Underscore Leech I'm at Clay Travis, and
during the live taping of the podcast here I went
on Twitter and asked people, Um, so these are several
good questions. Austin wants to know, Coach, which of your
former players reminds you the most of Joe Exotic? Have

(58:25):
you ever had? What if what player has been the
most eccentric or the most interesting or the craziest that
you've ever coached. Is there one that comes to mind.
I've got a lot of them. I mean I've had
I've had a lot of them, and everybody is interesting, exotic,
charismatic in their own way. I mean you've already mentioned

(58:47):
Gardner and Gardener's aboue tough to argue with. Oh, I
think Logan Tago is a good one, and well also
Logan Tago and Frankie Luvu, um just kind of overpowering
kind of personalities. Uh, you know, just their general energy

(59:09):
for life and things. Um uh, boy, I've had I've
had so many, it say, it's hard to you know,
and you think kind of one year at a time,
and then you think back and go further back and
you know there's some there's some even wilder ones. Um

(59:30):
the you know, just guys that are kind of creative,
that always have something going on. I'll tell you a
really fun guy that's great storyteller, hilarious coaches football somewhere
there in Texas As again named Bob Draper at Iowa
Westling College. He was a unique and fun guy to
hang out with. And uh, you know, had a had

(59:53):
to pick up and roll into this pick up. Great
big guy, had a very distinct laugh and was always laughing.
Had a refrigerator right next to his bed. Um, you know.
And as they've done a good job as a coach
down there, and then uh, I mean, I can think
of it's almost like if she gives me a year,

(01:00:15):
I can a season. I can rattle off, you know,
one or two guys. But that that's the thing about
football that's captivating is um, it's not so much the
excess and as those are exciting practices, exciting big wins
are exciting, but the contrast and the variety of personalities

(01:00:36):
that you get in there that start to reveal themselves
and you know, the discussions you have, I mean, and
just kind of the habits are. I mean, they stick
with you for a long time and you get the
opportunity to sample it a lot. Um question here, what
do you think of joe exotic singing voice? Seth asked,

(01:00:58):
highly doctored in studio or does he really have dare
I say, a decent voice? I mean, his voice seemed
pretty decent, didn't it. Well, everything's the same tune, it
would be different words, same tune. I did wonder if
he was actually playing the guitar, and I didn't arrive
at a conclusion on that. But it didn't look like

(01:01:19):
he didn't play a lot of chords. But it didn't
look like his hand at the top of the neck
of the guitar was moving much. And then um, uh,
you know he had a soothing voice of sorts, kind
of a little bit uh uh so redundant. A lot
of them the same tune. I guess I would have
liked to have seen a little more contrast to the

(01:01:42):
style of songs or um, you know what he what
he's saying. It seemed to me that um all the
same song, different words. A lot of times Jimmy wants
to know what's the best out of date meat to eat?
Out of the Walmart meat bear. Uh. If you had
to pick, uh, I would have to think maybe something

(01:02:10):
highly processed like uh, which I hate salami, but um,
you know something that song already pretty dry and hard.
Although they talked about aging, since you knew what you're
doing there and in poison yourself, you might be all right.
Uh Uh I wouldn't mess with fish if I could help.

(01:02:35):
But UM, I don't know. But you sure saw a
lot of sausage on those pizzas, didn't you. Yeah. Oh,
I don't think there's any doubt. Um, I don't think
there's Uh. I don't think there's any doubt about that.
I like that the guys had their favorite picks about
what exactly they would they would choose if they had to,

(01:02:56):
if they had to pick. Um. All right, reading couple
more of these, Uh, if you had to pick what
Dr Chris says, if you have to pick one person
to vacation with for a month, who do you pick?
Joe Exotic, Carol Baskin and her husband Jeff Low or
Doc Antel. This is kind of like, uh, um, yeah

(01:03:22):
it is. I don't think there are great options here.
Let's start with that. I think it would be Doc
I think because see, I think Doc would be a
pretty good storyteller. I think he has a lot of
adventures in his own right that he can tell you about.
And in testing that uh um, doctors spilled beans on

(01:03:44):
everybody else. What about Halloween? These are gonna be big
Halloween costumes come October. Which of the characters do you
think makes the best Halloween costume? Well, for Carol already
had him at her a couple's cost and her and
her husband. But that's uh, you know, they're playing a

(01:04:07):
little bit different game. That looked to me like than
I'd be willing to get into. Um, let's see, exotic,
you have to get a mullet if you go che exotic.
Uh boy, there were some Halloween costume so um uh yeah,

(01:04:31):
well okay, and maybe the guy on the jet ski
Jet that'd be a great cart that haircut, if you
you can pull it off. You gotta get the hair right,
you gotta get the right mask, you know. Yeah, no,
that would be outstanding. Ricky asks, has Coach Leach ordered
any of the Joe Exotic undergarments for your next post,

(01:04:53):
for the next painting that you're going to pose for?
I have not, uh, I am not. There's certainly, Uh,
they're certainly on the list. I mean, who wouldn't want
uh uh, because that trouble with it is is you
don't feel it doesn't feel very authentic because Joe says

(01:05:13):
he doesn't wear underwear. Yeah, right, Uh, but that would
be great for your photo. I mean, you're you're painting
if you went with the Joe Exotic underwear for for
Mississippi State. Well, at the rate they're just sticking my
head on top of other people's photos, I don't think
I'm gonna have to worry about that very much. Uh.
I imagine that will probably already be taken care of. Um.

(01:05:37):
These are fantastic, By the way, all the all the
questions that are rolling in, would you a lot of
people are asking tiger related questions. Would you go into
one of those tiger cages, like, let's say, and I'm
not talking about with like the tiny you know, like
the you know cubs, I'm talking about like the big,
full grown tigers. Would you be willing to walk into

(01:05:58):
one of those cages, not by yourself, but with any
of the employees or would you say there's no way
I'd let the employees go in first take the lap.
I would carefully evaluate whether the employee was slower than
I was, and then UM, yeah I would. I had
a Oh there was a thing I tweeted out on

(01:06:20):
a pasture. The sign on the fence says, uh, don't uh,
don't enter this pasture unless you can make it all
the way across in nine seconds, because the bull can
do it in ten. Would you ever run with the

(01:06:41):
bulls in Pamplona, By the way, I've always wanted to
Did you do it if you were over in Spain?
Like it? Either you're or would you? I mean, would
that be something you'd be willing to try? Yes, I
would definitely do it. Um, I would definitely do it.
A number of people, uh have My odds of survival
are quite high. I would not be um, you know,

(01:07:02):
back their waving stuff at him, you know, the first layer. Um.
And those that I've talked to that have done it,
um you know say, if you feel threatened, there's kind
of an edge to the thing and you kinda just
go to the side and get up there. I've also
heard that it's uh, and I don't know the exact

(01:07:25):
logistics of it. It's a little bit slower process. Uh, um,
than you think. And with that said, um, they say
the people out there doing it are hammered. Have been
up all night about that? Have you ever done it?
I would do it now? I don't know. I don't

(01:07:45):
know if I would do it now. Your kids are grown, right,
So I when I think about taking risk now, I think,
you know, my kids are so young. I don't want
to do something incredibly stupid when I got a five
year old, but I wouldn't be I'm not afraid of
doing it when there you know, like graduated from high school.
Does that makes sense? Like? I feel like when you
have young kids, your risk tolerance goes down because you're like, hey,

(01:08:07):
I want to make sure that I get them to adulthood.
And then once you get them to adulthood, you're like, okay,
I can do. You know, I'm pretty good shape now. Well,
growing up, I grew up around livestock too. You know
you're familiar with it in Wyoming. Yeah, And so, I
mean it wasn't really running with the bulls, but you're
there's times where you're end up a little closer to

(01:08:30):
livestock than you'd like, or all of a sudden they
start hit one side of the craft line. It gets
a little crowded, but get up. Yeah, I would do
it all right. These are fantastic. I think we knocked
almost all of them out. People want to know if
you went to the winny Wood Exotic Animal Park, but
we already know that that you did. And I think

(01:08:50):
we talked about that already. Um and let me just
scroll through the man I didn't. I didn't know it
was there. Oh. The other the other curious interesting thing
one is is that other animal park they're building. It
sounded like they just pulled up stakes and stopped, and
who knows where all those animals went. I don't know. Yeah,
that's one thing that I had a question about at
the end was what happened to all the animals as

(01:09:12):
they as they made the decision? What do you think
that somebody said, what do you think the the odds
are of of the relationship between Jeff and his his
the woman, his wife who was having a baby. What
do you think the odds are they stay stay married forever?
Initially I didn't I would have said no, but you know,

(01:09:35):
I think that you know, they were always kind of together.
I don't know the backstory or whatever, but Uh. To
be honest, they did kind of strike me as being
into one another. I mean those Joe's uh uh sometimes
you call them wives, sometimes you call him husbands. They
seemed a little more uh at a convenience, just general lifestyle.

(01:10:00):
His wife actually struck me as cunning into him. I
think she was. I think she was kind of buying
all the bravado he was selling. You know, yeah, I
don't think there's uh, I don't think there's any doubt
at all. Coach, this has been fantastic. Where are you,
by the way, what part of the country are you
in right now? Well, I'm in Key West. What happened

(01:10:21):
with us was we're in the middle of springbreak and
anxiously getting ready to start spring ball at the end
of spring break. And then they said, all right, everybody
stay where you're at and extend springbreak another week because
they weren't they didn't want anybody on campus. And and
now it's currently extended to uh April fifteen. So, um,

(01:10:46):
we've got as many as we can tucked away uh
doing online academics and um, you know, just kind of
waiting for the go ahead. Really, Um, we've got a
few on campus. Um. Uh you know, once in the dorm.
If they filled up special pay work didn't have anywhere

(01:11:07):
else to go, they can stay in the dorm. Uh.
We have about twelve and start telling about six of
them are from start telling the others just stay at
their apartment because I guess it was better than their
home condition. And so uh the symes seemed to be
going smoothly, I mean relatively speaking. I mean, nobody's uh

(01:11:30):
really happy about it, but everybody, hopefully everybody is uh
finding productive ways to use their time and continuing to
grow as people. You know, no doubt, and the best
way you can grow as a person sitting around watching
seven hours of the Tiger King Coach. This has been fantastic.

(01:11:51):
We need to do it again sometime soon in the
future when you we both watched a show and we
both are interested in it. I think people are gonna
absolutely love this. I hope you guys have enjoyed it.
I'm Clay Travis. He's Mike Leach, MISSISIPI state football coach.
Go find him on Twitter at coach Underscore Leach. Let
him know how much you enjoyed the podcast here. Thanks
for all the great questions, uh, and thanks for hanging
out with us. This has been Wins and Losses Tiger

(01:12:11):
King Edition. Thanks for hanging