Clay sits down with former Baylor HC Art Briles

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Play talks
with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome into the Wins and Losses podcast.
Here without kicked the cover gian Clay Travis. Lots of
great Wins and Losses podcast in the repository there you
can go check them out. Twenty three different ones. I

(00:24):
believe we've done so far and we are often rolling
here this week with Art Briles, Texas high school football
coaching legend, as well as former Baylor football coach. Many
of you are gonna be very familiar with him because
you are big time college football fans. And we'll start
with this coach. You've hardly talked to anybody in the

(00:44):
media for several years now. Has it been hard to
basically be quiet like you've been quiet? How? First of all?
Good born and Clay and yeah, I mean it's uh,
it's always hard to you know, kind of let your
name get drag around and and everything. But that's just

(01:05):
you know, I'm kind of old school, you know, I'm
I'm sixty four years old and I grew up where
you know, my dad and everybody eyes ever around. You know,
just taught me how your action speaking loud in your words.
So just keep your mouth shut and live the life
that you're supposed to live. And people will judge you,
that know you, by by what you do, not by
what you say. So that's kind of been it. And

(01:25):
then you know, it's, uh, once a narrative gets out
there in the media, it's it's it's kind of hard
to find. So I found out early that everything that
I did try to say, which was not much or
you know, somebody was saying for me, I just got,
you know, kind of taken and twisted to where it
was not it was not a positive for me. But

(01:48):
you know, I'm doing good and uh, you know, every
everybody you know, it seems to be kind of getting
back on their face, so that that's a good thing,
all right. So I want to dive into Baylor and
everything there, but I want to start with your coaching career.
You were long before you moved into college coaching, and
I believe your first job in college coaching didn't come

(02:10):
until two thousand, but by that time you've been coaching
for twenty years in Texas high school football. When did
you know that you wanted to be a football coach.
Was this something you knew when you were eighteen nineteen
years old? Was a younger? How did you come to Basically,
I think starting in nineteen seventy nine moved into football.

(02:31):
You know. My dad was was a coach, and he
actually didn't start as a coach. He joined the Navy
out of high school and then went, you know, and
served for four years. And back then you'd served in
dud Gil. Back in the Navy paid for your college
and you know, so he did that and he went
out to West Texas A and M at the time
or West Texas State out in Canyon, Texas. And then
he really didn't He was just a school teacher. And

(02:53):
my mother wasn't uh, you know, she was just um,
you know what do you call him now? Today? I
want to make sure you right terms she stayed home mom.
But anyway, yeah, so I had a brother, and you know,
first my dad was just you know, teaching school, and
then he started coaching junior high. Then he got he
got the head a high school job at Rule Texas

(03:15):
r U l E. Which is a little town out
in West Texas. And I moved there when I was
a freshman high school, and I just it's just kind
of all I've ever been around, you know. And then
I got into college. I went down to Mercy Houston,
and you know, played for coach Holman, and I thought,
you know, I really wasn't sure what I was gonna do.
I kind of wanted to be a you know, like
an FBI agent or something. I always kind of like,

(03:37):
you know, studying things and trying to figure out why
people do what they do. But um, you know, I
found out quickly the way to get out of schools
just you know, get my education degree. And so I
just started coach and started coaching nineteen seventy nine, a
little town out in West Texas, Sundown, and you know,
I was actually in high school for twenty one years.
I was sixteen years as a head coach, and you know,

(03:58):
we got the job out there. Just take in two thousand,
al right. So when you're coaching in high school football,
at what point did you start to develop the offensive
system that you would eventually bring into college football at Baylor.
And what was it brought out of? Was it necessity
where you said, man, I don't have some of the

(04:20):
same talent that some of these other schools have, but
maybe I can exploit them by running this new system.
How did you sort of tinker and work your way
into the offensive system that you ended up running at Baylor.
That's a really good question, Clay. I can tell you've
talked a lot of football guys, but you know, everything
comes out of necessity. And actually it started. You know,

(04:41):
I got my first head job in nineteen eighty four. Um,
you know in Hamlin, Texas. Another how long if you
remember Johnny ham Jones, you know you just played for
you two years ago. Oh yeah, but you know so anyway,
that's that's where later my first head job, we really
had good kids, you know, it was it was just
a great school about a third and it third wide,
third African American, and you know, we could we could

(05:04):
kind of get after people, and it was just a
good mixture of people that were tough guys that could
run a little bit. So you know, we went twenty
seven one and one in two years. But my second
year there, um, you know, we got deep in the
playoffs and and I started seeing that that once we
got deeper in like my quarterfinals, semifinals, state state championship,

(05:25):
that other other people had good talent also, so in
eighty and eighty three or eighty four, you know, it's
pretty pretty vanilla, you know, split back there because I
was a big guy coming from Houston, and then in
five switched to uh, you know Novak, you know, and
and run a little one back for wides and and

(05:46):
did a little, you know, a little on pass option
stuff back then. So it was it was basically out
necessity end up, you know, going uh, I guess fourteen
one our last year, but um, you know we got
beat by team that had people, but it was, you know,
is that a necessity? And then we just kind of
evolved through the years. I mean I actually took a

(06:07):
job a couple of years after that in George, South Texas,
which is around Austin, and we we were very with
a smaller school in the nineteen districts Austin west Lake,
you know where Drew Brees is from the make Pose
and you know some of those people, Baker Mayfield, you know,
we're in a we're in a district with them. Actually,
how Mummy was the head coach that covered COVID's time

(06:28):
the same same district, and we were less talented. So there,
you know, I put in some different formations and stuff
to kind of slow the game down because back then
they didn't have the forty second clock to know, the
refereen sets the ball, then he bring his arm. Man,
you got twenty five seconds to actually milk the game,
you know a little bit. So we we slowed it
down and tried to play you know, kind of a

(06:50):
middle football three and a half four yards to carry
and and the shortened the game and try to win
you know, seventeen tens. So everything you do is it's
you know at a necessed in. That's we got into
to college. You know, we just involved from there because
we got better players and we're able to do a
few more things with the skilled athlete. Stephenville, I believe

(07:10):
I want to talk about that with you. Um. I
think you won four Texas state high school championships there
if I'm not mistaken, in four A, which is a
pretty high level. Um, what started to go perfectly well
for you as you're kind of in the laboratory of
football that led you to having so much success that

(07:31):
gave you an opportunity to move in. I did some
research on this because I was kind of curious, Uh,
your ninety eight team. I think you posted over eight
thousand yards of offense. Is that a missprinter or was
that real? That was Actually it was the most offensive
yards in the in the history of high school football
time nationally. So that eight thousand, six hundred and fifty.

(07:53):
I mean, who was on that team? Oh, you know,
we had we had two kids went to Smu my quarterback,
gun out on Luca and then Cody Card was a
little re singer. It was about you know, he's about
five nine a hundred and sixty, but you know, he
could fly. You know, he's really a dynamic. Both those
guys went there and and Luca. Luca could throw the
ball pretty good. But we just you know, we had

(08:14):
a lot of other guys to go with it with.
We've actually won quite a bit up until that time,
you know, like in ninety three and ninety four were
we're thirty two and oh so we had a really
dominant players then, and we just had a great run
of quarterbacks. You know, I had a tenure run there
or we really had good players. Actually when I took
the job in nineteen, um, you know, they hadn't won

(08:34):
a district championship in twenty seven years. And so it
had been a place that was down, but it was
a community school just about fifty five miles south of
Fort Worth. So you know, I knew we could get
some people in there, and uh those guys would would
you know? It's all they had, all they had Steamlle
High School. They couldn't go to the mall, they couldn't
go to the movie theater. You know, they had to
stay in there and we had to work. So we

(08:55):
worked them good, and we got a little tradition going
and we spent some really good players come out of there.
Some guys you know that uh um, pretty good in NFL.
A couple of them, you know. So it's it's been good.
Be sure to catch live editions about kick the Coverage
with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three
am Pacific. We're talking to our briles as the Winds

(09:17):
and Lost his podcast. I'm Clay Travis. So when you're
rolling in Texas high school football, we got people listening
to this all over the country, and they may know
Texas high school football from Friday Night Lights. They may
know kind of the rumor and reputation of it. How
big is high school football in Texas. For people who
aren't from Texas and are listening to us right now,
what is it on the social scene for the state

(09:40):
of Texas. You know, it's it's just fun football, clay,
you know what I mean. That's that's the thing that
I always liked about it, and that's really why I'm
back in and now you know, it's just it's a good,
good ball and and he gives the all these people, uh,
you know, kind of something to talk about and hang
their head. Only gives you know, guys and girls, you know,
it gives them uh meaning you know, because you've got

(10:01):
the cheerleaders, you got the man, You've got the pep squad,
drill team, you know all that. So it just involves
so many people and it's just it's uh, you know,
it carries the flag for the community, especially when you're
talking about the like you mention steam Mills four A
would be a five A in today's alignment. But you know,
you get the community schools based around the state of Texas.

(10:21):
It's that way. Then when you get into the cities
you know, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, uh, kind of the
Austin area. You know, there's still pockets of of schools
there that have been strong for years. I mentioned west Lake,
You've got Katie, You've got Duncanville and Dallas De Soto.
You know. Then you know, they're just all over the state,

(10:42):
really good, strong programs that have had a lot of
tradition for a lot of years. And and these people
stay there, grow up there, live there, and so it's
a it's a generational thing and they just uh, you know,
it just means everything to them. And the the word
you used early in the podcast when you were saying
this is our winds and and something show, you know,

(11:04):
that's the word I've never used, you know, so you know,
when when when that happens, you know, it's just devastating,
you know, but it's just it just you know, takes
a piece of your soul out. So uh, that's something
that I've always felt. And uh, you know that's as
it was always my motivating factor for coaching. And it
wasn't the WS, it was others, you know, because there's

(11:24):
always a way to do better and overcome when you
didn't succeed. How long does you say you don't even
like to use the word loss, but when you would
lose early in your coaching career, a high school football game,
how long does it take you to get over it? Oh?
You still don't? You know, I still got something that
hang on me right now today. You know, it's just

(11:46):
because it is so devastating. And the thing the difference
between high school collegiately and then even in NFL and
I would suppose you know, is that in high school,
you know, when you you're in those communities, you're in
those places when when you don't get a victory, then
you're seeing those people. You know, on Saturday, your settlement church,

(12:07):
on Sunday, you know, everywhere you go through the week,
you're seeing all those people that stands. Collegiately, you know,
those people come in, they drive in, they bring to
our bays, they fly in, then they leave, you know,
because not everybody lives in way Hill, Texas, or Houston,
Texas or love With Texas. You know, so they come
and go and then they go back to their whatever

(12:27):
they do, and they may I'll be back for two
or three weeks, depending on home and wage schedule. And
the NFL is the same way. I mean, you've got
people that you know, live in Ardenton, Texas that love
Green Bay. You know, so it's stuff. But I mean
when you're in when you're in high school ball, I
mean it's it's only you know, and you see those
people and you're responsible to them day in and day out.

(12:47):
How many people would show up for your high school
football games? You know, at the when we were at
Stephenville and in the state championship games, you know, I
think probably the biggest crowd we had was I think
it was nine. We had a we had a double
header in the Astrodome, believe it or not, that's when
the dome was still alive, um and we played a

(13:09):
team called Port Nature's Groves and then there was another
game that backed us up. So it's kind of a
dual crowd. But I think there was about thirty three,
you know, maybe thirty five thousand there um at that game.
And you know that when you get deep in the playoffs,
you always had really really good crowds, you know, So
that's that's it's really exciting. And the thing about it

(13:29):
is there completely split crowds. You know, you got a
home and you really have a vistarch work collegiately. You know,
it's when you're at home, you're really at home. But
when you get in these playoffs games, it's it's split
right down the middle. How hard was it for you
to leave high school football to go coach in college?
It wasn't hard, you know. I mean when I got
into coaching, I just got into coaching coach. You know,

(13:52):
I didn't really have a master plan or vision or anything,
because you know, when I my wife and I, you know,
we started dating the nineteen seventy two, got married and
seventy eight we went to high school together and I
graduated twenty four in my class and I think she
had twenty five and hers. So you know, we were
just just happy, being happy, you know, just wanting to

(14:12):
live and get out and you know, try to try
to have a productive life and go from there. And um,
you know, when getting out of high school, you know
I really kind of felt like believe or not as
crazy as it sounds, you know, we'd won four state
championships in a six year period, and I kind of
felt like we've crossed all bridges with the cross you know,

(14:33):
and and it kind of got to be, you know,
as as crazy as it sounds, kind of whole hum
for the community there, and you know, they had a bond.
They didn't build a new high school. I felt like
if they had built a new high school that that
town would have really flourished, you know, because its location.
But they built a new middle school instead, and that's
you know, it's not my decision. That school board decisions.

(14:54):
So they did what they did, and and I just
had the chance to go to the Texas Tech. You know,
I knew the I knew some people there because actually
my wife and I ended up graduating from there. I
stayed three years at Houston three and a half and
I went to Texas Tech and finished up when I
quit playing football, So you know, we knew some folks
out there. Uh, they needed a Texas guy on the

(15:16):
staff because from Leach came in, you know, he brought
all these people from around the nation, but they weren't
Texas guys. So they needed a Texas coach in there
that people could relate to, you know, that could help
give them a good recruiting base to start with. It
new the state of Texas because I knew it at
the time. I'd actually you know, been elected you know,

(15:37):
the high the president of Texas High School Coach Association.
So I had good connections all across state. And that's
that's really why I got the job there. So what's
it like? We had Mike Leach on the podcast already
and a lot of people who are listening to us
right now, No, Mike Leach. What was working with Mike
Leach alike? It was interesting, you know, say that he's

(16:00):
a good way to start. No, I mean he Mike's.
Mike's a great football coach. He's I respect him a
lot because he he really loves the game of football,
just like I do, you know, And that's that's that's
the people that I respect. Just like your intelligent questions
want to go. I can tell that that you've been
around the game. You know the games, you discussed the

(16:20):
game with many people. You know, so people that know
the game, love the game and understand the game. I
have a lot of respect called Mike's Mike's that way,
we're completely you know, polar opposites on um you know,
personalities and and you know they lives. But that's that
doesn't mean anything. I mean Mike, Mike is a technician,

(16:43):
you know, football coach. He demands a lot of his
players and his coaches. He's a he's a great guy.
To coach for because you know, he's not overbearing, he's
not a micro manager, but he's uh, you know, what
he wants done, he gets done. And he's been you
know effective everybody's been and so he's you know, he's
he's had a good career and I'm happy for him.

(17:05):
You brought in west Welker. That's a guy that a
lot of people might not have brought in. What did
you see in him that made you think this guy
can be successful at a college level? It was it
was just, you know, fortunately I had Oklahoma at the time,
so I recruited you know, uh spots of Texas and
I had you know, two or three spots in Oklahoma, Tulsa,

(17:25):
Oklahoma City, and uh, you know, that was about it.
And Tommy McVeigh, who was the football obscut at TEG,
brought in his tank and said, hey, you know, because
Tommy coached up there something sometimes his career, said I
want you to watch this guy on tape, you know,
And I said where is he? And he said, what
is it? Paratage all the little private school in Oklahoma City.
And I'm thinking, okay, you know, So he brings it

(17:48):
in and there's this guy in there. That's you know
what walk welcos about five nine and a halfs at
that time, probably way the seventy three or four. He
played quarterback, he played running back. He played he said
to kick the ball, He punted the ball and did
all the place kicking. He returned punts and return king
because he never came out of the field every time
he touched the ball. He was dynamic with football. When

(18:10):
he was on defense, he was by far the best
player on the field, A very tough, just dynamic player.
And and I just said that, you know, this guy
is a no brainer. And you know, I said, what's
he've done? What's what's he got? And they said, well
he got Tulsa. And I said, and I said, what
was he run? You know? And they said, well, I
think you know he's been time probably you know low

(18:33):
low four seven, maybe had four six, you know, something
along those were that range. And I said, you know,
we gotta take this guy. And so we talked about it.
And then actually when sign of day comes along, we
we have not offered and signed that comes along because
we want to sing in person. He didn't sign and
came invested a week later, got on campus, and and

(18:54):
everybody got to meet him. It was you know, if
you ever been around West or no West. He came
in as a running back. I was coaching running backs
and I said, you know, I want this guy. Thank you.
We had great running backs, you know, we had Child Williams.
Dad Obama had Ricky Williams. It was a great running
back there. And then West came in and and I'm
telling you West, if he would have stated running back,

(19:16):
he'd be you know, running, he would have been a
running back in the league. Also. I mean, that's that's
how good he is. We stamped on campus. He was
an automatic, no brainer because he's from zero yards to
four yards with his feed and his his maneuverability is
as good as anybody I've been around, and I've been
around some really good ones. Fox Sports Radio has the

(19:38):
best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within
the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
listen live. We're talking to our briles. Uh this the
Wins and Lost his podcast. I'm Clay Travis. Uh So
you get there. We are all right. So you're at

(20:01):
with Mike Leach at Texas Tech you recruit, then you
get an opportunity to go to Houston. What was the
interview process like and how exciting was it to get
a job at a place where you had played wide receiver? Well,
it was just, um, it was really good. That The
good thing about it. The bad thing about it is
that nobody wanted the job. You know, a you have
h at that time. That was in two thousand and two.

(20:22):
I think they were coming off like six losing seasons
in a row, and they their attendants at that time
was probably eighteen thousand a game on a good game.
So it's just a job. Really nobody wanted there in conference?
Who say at that time in conference, who say you
had TCU, South Florida, had Louisville, Cincinnati, I mean you

(20:44):
a b you know, had had some people that could
play along with Tulsa and Smum and two lane and
all those folks. Rice at the time was pretty good.
So it was just, uh, there's a job nobody wanted.
They offered probably to you know, three or four people.
And then he got down me and this other guy
that played a good age and and I went down
there and interviewed, and it's I've always told players all

(21:07):
my life. You know, you never get a second chance
to make the first impression. You know what my idea
was in nineteen seventy four when I went there. If
I'd have been a you know, a turd and been
a bad guy and caused trouble and you know, got
in trouble and done all that, and all those people
that were around, then all of a sudden, they're making
decisions in two thousand two, you know, so they wouldn't

(21:29):
even talk to me. They looked at me. So it
was good that coach Oleman was still in the process.
A couple of other boosters you know that had been
there when I was around run the process and like
I said, the interview went well. I got in there
and I was probably I don't think probably. I'm pretty
sure I was one of the you know, lower probably
top bottom five paid coaches in America at that time,

(21:52):
you know, for a Division one head coach. But I
didn't care. You know, all I wanted was a chance
because after being in the in the game three years
at TAG and seeing it, watching how college worked, I
could tell that, you know, what we did at Steudentville
High School from a formason scheme and at philosophical standpoint,

(22:13):
we transferred into the collegiate level, and so I was
excited to give opportunities to some coaches that I've been
around for you know, some of them at that table
more to come and coach at the cleegiate level. So
I brought you know, three or four or five guys
that were on my staff at Stephenville up there, and
you know, actually when of them the head coach at
Tausson l Philip Montgomery, you know Rand Clemens as a

(22:37):
line coach at at Old Men's right now, and you
know some other guys. So it's it was fun to
come help him and you know, have a chance to
start there in the end of the thing that propelled us,
you know, when I was there, I mean, we we
signed Kevin Cobb, who was the high school quarterback at Stephenville.
You know, I've actually been coaching mu was committed to
okcoma state, but Montgomery was still there and when I left,

(22:59):
he was just a punishment. So he you know, he
played a little bit in some playoffs games, but that
was it. And so it gave us a chance to
have instant credibility and winning bills because he understood our
offense and we could row from there. So you're there
five years and then you get the opportunity of Baylor
and we're talking with our briles here. Um, you go
into Baylor and I know you said nobody wanted the

(23:20):
job at Houston. I can't imagine there were a lot
of people sitting around saying, Hey, you know what, I
really want to go to Baylor and coach football because
they really had had absolutely no success at all. Obviously
it's a step up in terms of conference, But was
that a tough decision to to to leave Houston where
you've gone to three straight bowl games and bowl games

(23:40):
and four out of your five years, and decided to
go to Baylor. Yeah, and and just since we're talking
to play, but actually just for the kids sake, actually
want to Conference SA championship in two thousand and six,
you know, with Kevin and some of those guys, and
we we had some really good players had You know,
the thing about Houston and I get to bat and

(24:00):
just singing, But the thing about Houston is that it's
a place where you can recruit because we're it's sitting
in in my opinion, one of the top two or
three cities in the nation and you know, with with
student athletes that can play. So I mean, we we
get cats there, you know. I mean I had you know,
while we were there, we had you know, six or
seven guys that got drafted and played a long time,

(24:22):
you know, Sebastian, Sebastian Bomber, Donnie Donnie Avery, you know,
Kevin Cobb. I mentioned Case Kingdom, you know, another guy
that I recruited out of there that I was the
only guy to offered cases scholarship coming out of high school.
You know. So it's just it just goes on and on.
So we had really really good people and you know,
ended up getting that thing back on his feet. So

(24:44):
I felt really proud of that because I loved the
new versity of Houston and it was nice to help
get them back. You mentioned doing to Baylor. I mean,
the thing that kind of drew me. There is a
couple of things. You know, when I was in recruiting,
you know, we red recruit these guys and you know,
we might lose one or two to beat each year.
And at that time, Beata was you know, they're going

(25:07):
to and teen and you know not I don't know,
three and nine, you know, and and not do anything.
And we're winning Conference USA championships and we're losing guys,
you know, to them and Emmanuel Sanders and one of them,
you know, he ended up doing SMU. But you know,
Beta was in the midst and he was talking to
them and he was you know, I remember him saying, coach,

(25:27):
I would go to Bator. You know. So I I thought, well,
you know that's that's Big twelve, you know. So it's
it's got it's got an appeal of each student athletes,
you know, even more so than the opportunity to to
instantly have a chance to win. So that that was
a big decision for me. Um. You know, I knew

(25:48):
that I knew the state of Texas. You know, I
knew Waco, I knew where it was located. I mean,
it's centrally located. It's three hours two hours and a
half of you know, it's our and half of Balance,
it's two and a half, three hours in Houston, it's
an hour and a half of Austin, and then it's
in each texas. You know, it's three hours in these
texas where there are pockets of athletes to these texas

(26:11):
that nobody knows about unless you know, the state of Texas.
So I knew we could recruit, and I knew Grandmama
just want to watch their grandsons quaite football and they
could drive there and get there. So I thought, yeah,
you know, if I can you know, get in on it,
then that that would be a good job. And it's
another job. Who what they probably offered it to the

(26:31):
people before they finally got to me, I know, Houston Night.
It was probably off with the job, and Jim Grove
at the time was off with the job or you know,
talk too seriously Mike Singletary, I think could have taken
the job but decided not to, you know, so they're
kind of you know, I kind of you know, walked
in there and and had the opportunity to go and

(26:52):
once again, uh, you know, it's a job and nobody
really wanted. But I just knew we could recruit there,
you know, and I got some some I had on
some really good recruich that we did, you know early
like r G three. He was committed to me at Houston,
you know, so he came the beater with me and
Kimball Ryde who uh you know, it was another first
round take. We got both those of first year in

(27:15):
and uh, you know, so we had a chance to
get in the good absent folks. I'm gonna get to
those guys, because I'm curious how you got them. But
first two years at Baylor you go four and eight,
four and eight, and you go three and thirteen in
the in the in the big twelve. Now, I know
you said you don't like to talk about losses, but

(27:35):
did you have any self doubt at that point? Because
you want a lot for Texas state championships. You only
had one losing record at Houston. I'm sure you weren't
used to the feeling of going four and eight, and
certainly you weren't used to the feeling of going three
and thirteen in conference at the end of two thousand nine,
where you like, golly, what have I gotten myself into?

(27:56):
Or were you starting to see the light at the
end of the tunnel and feel like, hey man, because
a lot of times you don't get more than two
years now, Uh, at jobs, you know, if you start
off two and six, one and seven in conference, sometimes
it can be tough. When did you start to think, hey,
maybe we can get this thing turned around. That's that's
really funny as you mentioned that, Clay, because honestly, I

(28:16):
couldn't have told you that we were three and thirteen
because the feeling around there at that time was that
this is going the right direction. You know, we had momentum.
We've played Texas Tech when they were eleven and two.
I think in two thousand and eight, I think they'd
be this thirty five seven, you know, I maybe thirty

(28:38):
eight thirty at Tech. You know, we had them down
with him down fourteen, you know, late in the third
and and actually they go for fourth down. We picked
the pass off of every guy outside as they go
down to score, changed momentum, end up beating US. Um.
You know, so we we played some some really close
football games against teams that have been just you know,

(28:59):
destroying Baylor, and it was you know, and then we
got beat them too. I mean, I'm not gonna say
that with some people beat us pretty good, but you know,
we beat A and M and O eight um and
and we you know once again in O nine we
played Tech the four teen to seven I think in
Nington and we just and and honestly the first year there,

(29:20):
I mean we beat Oura State and I'm walking across
the field after game and I get I get the
ice chest, you know, thrown at me or over and
I'm thinking, what's going on? You know? And I had
no idea. And then I heard one of the one
of the seniors, Jason Smith actually who ended up being
a second pick over all in the draft as a
as an old lineman and old nine. He said, Coach,

(29:43):
we hadn't we hadn't won a conference game in two years,
you know, So there were there were a couple of
small milestones that gave us momentum. And it it was good,
you know, I mean, I believe it or not. It
felt good because we knew we had some guys that
could play. We were recruiting good people, and we knew
we could could make a little turn. So it wasn't

(30:04):
a deal to where you know, we felt like I
felt like, man, what's going on? Because I mean too,
you know, just to be honest, I had I had
an opportunity to leave after the Bill nine season and
go within conference, and um, you know, didn't do it.
So that's that's how good we felt about it at
the time. Right there, Where did you have an opportunity

(30:26):
to go in O nine? Uh? Tech. So Tech was
trying to hire Yeah, trying to get you away. All right,
So let's go to let's go to r G three.
Um guy kids from Texas obviously is gonna put Baylor
on the map in a big way. Uh, and and
take your program to a different level. When did you

(30:46):
first see him play? You said you had him committed
to Houston and then you brought him with you to Baylor.
Why did other coaches not seeing him what you did? Uh?
It's it's funny, you know, because they played in the
state championship two years ago when he was in high school,
you know, which is hard to do. They got beat
both years by Richmond team out of Houston, South Houston.

(31:06):
Richmond had a little running back to winter in Oregon
State that was really good. I can't remember his name
right now, but that's him. Yeah, that's close enough. I'm
pretty sure that I remember the player. Yeah. No, he
was really dynamic, you know, and they had a great
career at Organ State. But the thing I saw in Robert,

(31:27):
you know, Robert was a track guy. You know, he
was national best in the highs and their any medias
and that that's that's just hard to do. I mean,
and so I knew. I knew he could run when
I got him at you of age in a summer
camp and washing through two passes. I mean, I watched
him throw the ball twice and I told him with

(31:48):
gum and I said, take him out. I don't let
him throw anymore. I said, I don't. I don't. I
don't want anybody else see how good he throws, you know,
because he got coaches all around there and stuff, because
I was shocked at how he could throw the football,
being that athletic. You know, I've been around a lot
of guys that are very athletic, can run, but but
the fine motor skills aren't quite as good. I mean,

(32:09):
Robert was. He was a league now and he could
he could really deliver the ball. And so when when
I saw that, I thought, you know, or here we
got this guy that's a national track athlete and could
have been an Olympic hurdler if he if he had
gone his way in the hurdles. But he can throw
the football. And he graduated seventh out of four hundred

(32:31):
sixty three. So I mean, let's play, you know. So
he was he was a phenomenal athlete and person that
you know, gave us an opportunity to be to be different.
Now what killed us in O nine is you know,
of course romboratories A see Elda like the second game
of the year. So that's that's what happened to No.

(32:52):
Nine and O eight. We had a we had a
little bit of a run going. We knew were gonna
be good. No. Nine. He tethers as they sail. So
we have to play another true freshman the rest of
the year in Old nine because the guy was back
in the Broca got hurt. Black Zamansky, you know when
he came to the game. So you know, we knew
we when I got him back in ten, that we

(33:13):
would have a chance to you know, to make a
little one there. But he's he's a phenomenal person and
phenomenal player. And it's and and what happened to him
in the league, it's what I tried to warn him
about when he came out. You know, he came out
of year ordly. Um, what's because he's so he's so
dug competitive, And I just told him rather, I said, man,

(33:33):
it's about longevity, and say I said, you just gotta
stay healthy, because I knew his competitive spirit I knew
he would play all around and try to, you know,
make the extra yards in a dynamic fashion. And and
there's some there's some mean guys on the other side
of line of screments that are very talented in the league,
you know, and they're tough and and they can make
plays on me. So, um, you know, just working and

(33:56):
you know, coincidentally, you got hurt, you know, and I
guess and the red Skins the first your second playoffs game,
you know, it's a rookie season. Again, what do you
think you would have been capable of with r G
three in the NFL if you've been as head coach
and you've been in charge of him and you've gotten
to take him to the NFL with Clay that's a
that's that's a little bit of a loaded question because

(34:19):
you know, I just I just know what, you know,
what we're capable of doing there at a place that
has never been done before, you know, at Baylor. So
I just think with him as a healthy person and
with the talent you can put around somebody in the league,
starting with the old line, you know, and going from
there with all the skill guys, um, and and then

(34:42):
adding the tempo to that. You know which I would
do if if I was in the NFL, and I
would definitely play Temple. I know it's a limited roster,
I know all that comes into play, but I also
know what it does to the defensive side of the ball.
So with a with an intelligent guy like that at
quarterback with his mobile, the inability, um, you know, I

(35:02):
think definitely we could it would You don't want a
lot of games if you've gotten to coach RG three
in the NFL, But I think I would like to
believe that. Yes, sir, be sure to catch live editions
about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis weekdays at six
am Eastern three am Pacific. Uh. So we're talking to
our Briwals. I know he doesn't like the word, but

(35:24):
this is the Winds and Losses podcast, So let's go
into uh to the broader question here. For a long time,
you heard all that works in high school football, it'll
never work somewhere else, right, or oh, it works in college,
but it will never work everywhere else. Seems to me
what we've moved into now in the world of the
NFL high school and in colleges. If it works at

(35:45):
any of those levels. It probably can work anywhere, but
you probably had to fight through that stereotype of oh
that might work in Texas high school football, it'll never
work in college. And I know we talked about this
with Mike Leach. Oh that works in college, it will
never work in the NFL. Seems to me like if
it works at any level of football, it can kind
of work anywhere. Is that where we are in football

(36:06):
right now? I don't think there was any question and that,
like I told you when I was at Tech, I
just saw what we were doing at steve Ville. It
would just it would, you know, really work in college.
And the way I've always looked at it, Clay, I
think everything evolves up. I don't think it evolves down.
I don't think you sit around in high school and
what's what the NFL is doing because you came emulated,

(36:27):
you know, or what the competition doing the same thing.
So high schools they got it. They got a coach
who walks through the door. So you have to be
open mindedge. You have to change philosophy. You gotta sit
set your set your scheme to your people that walk
through the door. So you changed constantly, which is the
same thing I've always done, you know, and then I
think it's evolved up. You know. I remember nineteen ninety four,

(36:49):
the springing night at four after Tennessee signed my quarterback,
brand It stirred who got signed by the way in
the same class as Peyton Manning if I remember correctly,
and and the short story, but that actually, uh, you know,
Brandon was committed earlier and he signed with them because
Philiphoner and David David Cutler we're the ones we cring him.
And then you know, come to Steingville setting setting my kitchen.

(37:12):
You know, they said you're the guy we're taking. And
then you know, lo and behold, Payton Manning comes up
the night before signing date and says he's not going,
old man, He's gonna go to Tennessee. And and they
called me and said, coach, we gotta take him. And
you know I understand that. I mean, my gosh, he
was he was probably number one and ranked in the
nation at the time. Brandon was I think number two.

(37:33):
And you know, they they were saying, you know, can
you talk to Brandon yesterday, I'll talk to him, and
you know, I was gonna tell Brandon, hey, you know,
do what you wanna do. But this is gonna be
a difficult situation for you. I said, if it's equal,
it's gonna be pat I'm gonna tell you that because
your your dad's name is Red and he builds houses,

(37:56):
his dad's are and he's the sec legend. You know.
So if it's equal, you ain't winning. And you know,
you know how kids are you now, coach, I'm I'm
doing I'm competitive about anyway, you know. So he goes
there and stay Semestrom and leaves and goes day and
m and actually through and it was a whole time
in the Big twelve. Brand is the one that won
them to the only championship everyone when they beat Case State, um,

(38:19):
and I didn't that Knox Case State out of the
out of the title game and then Tennessee won the
title that year ironically with t Martin. If I remember
correctly the way that all played out, what the home
going to understand? Correct? But anyway, but you know, to
answer your question, I just think, you know, I think
football is just football. That's just that's just what it is.

(38:40):
And you know, the people you get to do it
with the players on the field, they determined. You know
what your success is gonna be. It's not so much
your scheme or you know, your formations or whatever. It's
it's the players that you have and how you utilize them.
So I just think it's you know, you know, the
stuff that the NFL is doing right now, that that's

(39:00):
been going on a long time. What I was gonna
say when I spoke at that clinic in nineteen ninety four,
the spring ninety four, you know, we've been running his
own read. I was running with the guy that uh
steam Bell, Cody lad Better. I met him runned earlier
at Hamling years ago, but we really kind of perfected
it in nineteen ninety This guy went on if Ashko
State as a q being actually led the nation and

(39:20):
Total Guards one of these years there. But we're running
his own read with him, and I'm going over that
clinic talk and comes up to me, you know, says, hey,
I wouldn't be telling anybody that, So that's that's some
unique stuff, you know, And uh, I can remember him
saying that then, and I'm thinking, you know, this is
we started doing this four years ago. You know that

(39:43):
Just to me, it kind of showed how you know,
because when you get when you get really good people,
you try to define plays, uh that that utilize those
good people. You know, where you're satisfied with the three
and a half to four and a half yard for
duction play or you you know, you're you're running all
these intermediate routes and throwing you know, checking it down.

(40:05):
You know I'm checking it up, you know. I mean
we're trying to score touchdowns, you know, because I found
that a long time ago. You can't score unless you're trying,
you know, so you know, the offensive job is to
hurt the defense. So it's just it's just a mentality.
But uh, to answer your question in a broad sense,
I think what you're saying today across the board. You

(40:27):
can go to a high school football game in East
Tennessee and I think you can see the very same
thing they're doing if if you watch the Kansas City Chiefs,
you know, playing because it's it's mirrored and it's the
same all the way across just so many you know,
you can't you can't teach uh, combination routes and you know,
running plays any differently in the NFL, and you can

(40:50):
teach them the high school. It's just it just doesn't exist.
What did it feel like to take r G three
to the Heisman Trophy ceremony and win it there? Uh,
you find a kid and you know, he said, the
seventh overall in his class, he's got the ability to throw.
He's an incredible athlete. Nobody else really is going to
give him the opportunity that you did. And then you
see it come to fruition in a ceremony like that.

(41:14):
What did that night feel like for you and for
the Baylor program. I think it was just kind of
kind of right where Robert said, unbelievably believable. You know,
it's just this is really happening to at that time,
our little, you know, hidden private school here in Waco, Texas,
you know, to where he's one of the most prestigious

(41:36):
honor of collegiate athletes athletics. I guess if you want
to look at it that way, Uh, it was just
just kind of crazy. But it just shows the momentum
and the you know the power of being in the
right place at the right time. I mean, we won
some and we I think we ended up ten and
three that year. You know, we were thirteen and o
or twelve and one. Or whatever. You know. I mean,

(41:58):
we we some games that they're go using that word,
but we you know, we didn't win some games that
you know, we that that could have helped us, you know,
down the stretch, but we won some late uh that
that really showed out Robert's ability, you know. And I
think we opened up that season beating TCU, who was
just coming off a Rose Bowl win and they were

(42:19):
like number five in American We beat them, I think
like two, you know, at home on Friday night. So
he gave he gave Robert instant credibility from the opening
gangs of the season. You know, you finished up. I'm sorry, no,
I was gonna say. The Oklahoma game is what a
lot of people I think are going to remember from
that that season, which was as big of a win

(42:40):
as as you guys have ever had. Well, he the
first time they ever beat him in the history of
the university. You know, kind of kind of a big deal. Yeah,
that was I think that was a Saturday night game.
And you know, ironically he throws a touchdown past with
no time left, so you know it is in the
dramatic fashion. You know, we're able to win, just when
we've been did beat TCU. I mean, we're down and

(43:03):
we take it down to down the field. In the
last you know, he catches, actually catches a double past
to convert a third and ten that kept us alive
and we go down to kick a field going to
beat him. So um, you know, it's just in the
fashion that had happened. And I think it was so
unexpected from Baylor at that time that the national media

(43:23):
you know, caught hold and Robert with his ability, you know,
just just took off. And I knew once he got
started doing interviews and stuff that you know, everybody was
love him because he was he was a gracious person
that it was very humble. Honestly, what does it feel
like standing on the sideline as the head coach? I
know you want for you know, a bunch of state

(43:45):
championships at Texas, But when Baylor beats Oklahoma, what's it
feel like in that moment on the sideline? Can you
even put it into words? Yeah? I really can. Just
just humbled, you know, very humbled, very grateful because you
you never are able to experience, you know, those feelings

(44:05):
and those those times in your life without a lot
of people helping you and believe in you, you know,
and and just a lot of coordination from a lot
of areas to make it happen. So just uh and
and really having a lot of people you know, support you,
and just so just a real humble, chilling you know.
I was never a guy that you know, was a

(44:27):
was a wild you know, cheerleader on the sideline and
and doing all that because I know that the bad
times are out there, you know, on football field. You know,
there's always you know, something that could always go wrong
on the field. So you know, when the good things happen,
you just you appreciate them, you enjoy them, h but
you don't glow local you know that. That's the way
I always was. Always try to make our guys feel

(44:49):
very thankful and very respectful and appreciative to being and
these you know, these situations and being able to experience
that because uh, you know, it's um it's a fun
time for a lot of people. But cause all the
energy and effort they put into it, a lot of
people thought maybe r G three leaves program will to
send back into you know, Baylor level mediocrity. Instead, you
take it to another level. In thirteen eleven and two, uh,

(45:13):
and you go to the Fiesta Bowl in fourteen eleven
and two go to the Cotton Bowl, get that tie
for first place, maybe keeps you out of the College
Football Playoff. And I know that was contentious, and then
you go tended, Mae, but I want to I want
to ask you about that when the when the polls
come out. And now, to be fair, that's the first
year of the College Football Playoff, I think, if I'm

(45:35):
remembering correctly, in fourteen and Ohio State just absolutely obliterates
Wisconsin in the Big Ten title, and you guys are
going head to head with TCU and you both have
a claim on potentially that spot. Do you think your
team that year was good enough to win a national championship?
I don't. I don't know if we're good enough to

(45:55):
win a national title that year. You know, I think
you'd have to get the playoffs to find out. On us,
we think, you know, on down the line, we we
had some teams that were you know, just as good
a better like you know, if we just stayed healthy
in fifteen, no doubt, you know. With with Seth Russell
running show, Rice Petty want us to back to back
Big Twelve titles, and then uh, Nick Florence got us

(46:16):
through in twelve, you know, did a great job in
twilve to keep us kind of on that national level.
You know, we were just kind of up and down,
but beat Kansas State that year when they were number
one in America. And then then we go out and
play in the Holiday Bowling but us l A who
had won the Pack twelve West I believe that year,
so you know, we kind of kept a little momentum.

(46:38):
But you know in fourteen, uh, that's the year. That's
the first year of the college playoffs. Plays that right,
I don't want to make sure I'm right. Yeah, I
think that's right. I think that's the year Ohio State. Yeah,
I'm almost positive that's the year Ohio State came in
as the four seed, upset Alabama and then beat Mariota
and the Oregon Ducks to win the title. Yes, sir,

(46:59):
And that that was the deal where you know, like
I said, it was the first year of the playoffs
and and we were you know, we're still just kind
of fighting to get up there with with you know,
stay in the top five or so most of that year,
you know, because we were pretty good, we had a
bad loss, I believe in West Virginia. And then we
had a bunch of big wins. You know, we beat
beat Texas on the road, bat o U on the road,

(47:22):
which you know, I think it never happened before in
the history of the Big Twelve, you know, for somebody
to beat those two teams on the road in the
same season. So you know, we were we were a
pretty dominant football team, to be honest with you, and um,
you know, and it's it was just a deal where
I felt like, I know, TCU beat US. Um, I

(47:42):
felt like, was that to your TCU beat US? I
think TCU beat your head to head. Oh no, we
beat them. I'm sorry you had you would have had
to tie break right if if it had been a
traditional situation, but you didn't have the I'm with you now. Yeah,
we beat them in in thirteen and were team and
yeah we beat them head to head, and then we

(48:02):
lost to West Virginia. They end of one loss, We
end up with one loss, but they're one loss was
against US. So my my deal was and it's a
Big twelfth of the time. They said, if you have
two teams with one loss, your coach champs. Yeah, right,
and that's not the way that you break a tie
in any other you know, like any other league that's
ever existed in the history of mankind. The number one

(48:25):
tie break is what did you do? Had to have? Yeah?
If you and I raised and you beat me, your
fashion and I am you know, So that's that's just
the way it is. And I can remember telling the commissioner, hey,
you if y'all don't declare somebody the winner, somebody the
Big twelfth champion, either of us or t s U,
then we're not gonna get anybody in. You know, we're
gonna finish. Because he gives a committee out, you know,

(48:49):
he gives him an app to say, hey, there's two
Big twelve champions. We can't take one. I mean, you know, coincident.
And we finished fifth in the in the voting that year,
and you beat TCU that year as a hell of
a game. I remember it now, I'm going back to
look it up. Yeah it was. We were actually down
twenty one I think in the fourth and uh, you know,

(49:11):
came back and and scored and won. So that was
that was a big win. And it was you know,
they were really good at time. They had a good
football team uh. And you guys obviously had a good
football team too, And like I said, you went, uh
eleven in two eleven and two ten and three, all right,
and then all of a sudden controversy arises. And this
is something that so I'm gonna be honest, like I'm

(49:34):
putting my lawyer hat on here now. I tend to
when stories like these come up, Um, there is sort
of this media onslaught and uh and and I'm curious
for you, uh as as this sort of storm cloud gathers,
did you realize what exactly was coming or were you
kind of blindsided by the way that the whole process

(49:57):
began to develop where the investigation into Sam I believes
who waka you? If I'm not mistaken, I might be
messing up his name, uh college, it turns into a
massive investigation um involving off the field incidents involving Baylor

(50:17):
football players. So I'm gonna take you back in time
to like the off season of were you conscious of
what was coming and and of the storm clouds that
were gathering or were you totally blindsided by this? I
can say that you know, just completely blindside. And I
really think all of us weren't you administration everything, uh,

(50:41):
including the university, you know, and maybe even the border
regents who uh, you know, I think we're put in
a situation they certainly weren't prepared for. And I think
that's you know, showing it's it's tail. But you know,
we just at that time and the summer, you know,
we they were just investigating. We like when they came
in and we were told sound's situation, you know. And

(51:04):
Sam was a guy that transferred from Boys and Chris
Peterson actually called me, you know, and I asked me
to take Sam. He said, I've got this guy that
you know in subordinate. You know, he won't come to practice,
he won't stay around. He's a good player. He's from Houston,
you know, and I think, you know, bed, it's a
good place for him because I've known Chris and you know,
been on a couple of trips with him and his

(51:25):
wife and um, so he felt like, you know, he
knew me. He thought we would could be a good
place for him. So we you know, I said, yeah,
we're looking to us, and we checked into it with
this high school coach at Caryland, Texas, uh, Tony Heap,
and you know, Coach Bennett. You know, we had a
couple of players on the team that have played with
and we talked to them and um, you don't think

(51:45):
checked out. But you know, Sam at the end of
the day, you know, he never played it down for us,
you know, once he got investigated and had an allegation
and we pulled him out of him out of everything,
and um, and so that's that was what that was
all about at that time. And well, I want to
I want to talk about Sam for a sec because

(52:07):
I do think this is a this is an important
detail and a lot of times people have their names
out there and you know, the initial onslaught of coverage,
and sometimes I can be guilty of this because I'm
in the media and everybody's talking about stories. This was
a really complicated case and I'm just gonna give a
background here for people who don't know. Uh. He was
charged with sexual assault, he was found guilty, then the

(52:29):
conviction was overturned, he got a new trial, then the
conviction I think was reinstated, and then it was reversed
again in July of So ultimately I believe I'm correcting this.
He was not convicted of any crime and I and
but that's like a five year process that this thing
went on, right, Yeah, it's uh, I mean, it's a

(52:49):
crazy story that it went on for five years, this
investigation into sexual assault, and ultimately he was found not
to have committed a crime, even though obviously this was
a big part of the store that led to your
auster and the quote unquote scandal that surrounded Baylor athletics.
So that's that's one of the stories that's out there
that I don't think a lot of people know, no,

(53:10):
And that's it's just, you know, it's it's a shame
for first of all, that for him and you know,
the alleged victim, you know that it's it's a shame
they were both called in that situation. And but it just,
you know, it kept Sound from fulfilling his athletic career,
no doubt. You know, he did end up staying there
and graduate from college and you know, never had another

(53:31):
another instant to my knowledge. But it's so he graduated
from Baylor. Have you talked to him recently? I really haven't. No,
I haven't, but I think he's living in Houston and
working somewhere. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart

(53:53):
Radio app search f s R to listen live. Okay,
and then another one that I think is a big
part of this scandal, and I'm curious if you've had
any relationship with him, was Sean Oakman, who was an
All American defensive end would have been I think you
can speak to this much better than I can. Potentially
a first round caliber talent. He was arrested on charges

(54:16):
of sexual assault and then he was found not guilty
of the charges against him. But it took three years
for those charges to be found not guilty, and if
I remember correctly, the jury only deliberated for like a
really short time. That feels like it was in many ways.
And again I'm whearing my lawyer had here a miscarriage
of justice. And let me explain to people who are

(54:37):
listening to me out there. I believe if you're charged
with a crime by a district attorney and the jury
goes out and they deliberate for like forty five minutes
and they unanimously find you not guilty after three years
of you having been charged with a crime, that's a
sign of prosecuted prosecutorial misconduct in my mind, because that

(54:58):
jury listens and they met mediately say no, there's not
anything here. And honestly, there's a guy playing for the
Denver Broncos now that I pay attention to. Uh, I
believe a J. Johnson from Tennessee who was also found
not guilty in like forty five minutes after being dragged
through something for years. And I'm not saying any of
these situations are in any way great for the alleged
victims or the victims and any kind of situations like this,

(55:20):
But I'm just saying, if a jury listens for forty
five minutes and says no, this guy is unanimously not guilty,
something was wrong on the prosecutorial side. But the reason
why I bring these up with you are Briles and
we're talking on the Winds and Watches podcast, is two
cases that were cited as evidence of why you needed
to lose your job and why Baylor was out of control.

(55:40):
Both ended ultimately and not guilty verdicts. What do you
know about Sean Oakman? What kind of relationship do you
have with the guy? Because I watched the video, I'm
gonna be honest with you. I mean, it was hard
for me as a dad to watch that and see
him crying after the not guilty verdict and saying not
that he was talking about himself, but how bad he
felt for Baylor football because he felt responsible for part

(56:01):
of the scandal and he didn't feel like he had
done anything wrong. That it was it was really tough,
you know it. It was really hard at the time
when they, um, you know, said that that you know,
Sean had done that it actually happened, and that it
happened like two weeks before the NFL Draft, I believe,
and it was in April of and uh, I can

(56:23):
remember it vividly. He actually had graduated, uh that December,
so he was he was you know student, yeah, I mean,
and honestly the first graduate in his family's history. So
that that was something that was something that you know,
if I ever had anything that I wanted to hang
my hat on, it was first generational graduates. You know.

(56:45):
That was one thing always stressed our guys. And while
I was in Beta, we were the first or second
and Big twelve and graduation rate and we actually had
the highest g p A in the history of the
university in the spring of But when that when that
happened was Sean. He was us living there and wake
go working out, getting ready for the draft, and it
was just it was just devastating, you know because, like

(57:07):
you mentioned, it was another case on top of the
case with the sound case. And and we did have
a guy that was convicted in twenty twelve or thirteen.
Uh you know that is I did serve time. He's
actually the only one that ever you know, we got
convicted of any player that ever coached. And once I
found out he was, you know, in a case, we

(57:27):
you know, we dismissed him gun program and actually the
university let him stay in school, end up transferring to
another university but never finished there. But anyway, the deal
with Sean was just it was awful. You know, I
was in Italy actually coaching. I think that just happened
like about a year ago when he you know, got
the not guilty, cause it wasn't until February of nineteen.

(57:50):
He was arrested in April of s and it was
almost three years later that he was finally found not
guilty of that charge. Yeah, I can remember I was
over in Italy with you know, I had a couple
of three players that had played a beta over with me,
and a couple of them coaching, and a couple of
playing when I'm coaching, and uh, you know, this one
guy kept up with Sean, him and Sean ra buddy.

(58:13):
So you know, I actually talked to Sean on the phone,
you know, after after he was exonerated, and it was
he was just you know, just just tearfully happy, you know,
I mean, just relieve. And you can imagine the three
years you know that he went through, because that's your question. Initially, Yeah,
he was a first round talent, no doubt, you know.

(58:35):
And so that's but that to me is that's inconsequential
to you know, what it does to it, to his
name and his uh you know, and what it does
to your soul. I mean that that's where it hits you,
you know, because you can always um, you know, maintain
and and fight on. But I'm telling you, when when
you get when you get your soul dragged into it

(58:57):
and get that that put on you, it's, uh, it's
a hard, hard, hard thing to live with and a hard,
hard burden to carry. So he he carried that for
three years wherever where he went. You know, people are
looking at and they're saying that that guy is guilty
of the sexual assault, you know, until he got exonerated.

(59:18):
But um, you know, so I'm I'm happy that that
that he was innocent, and now I'm happy that I
think he's playing the next sail now at in l
A and hopefully he has I mean to me, so
this is again me me kind of putting my lawyer
hat on here. Um. And but I'm also I think
in a unique spot because I'm in the media, and

(59:39):
so in the media, you are obligated in the culture
we live in to have opinions. Right, I'm in the
opinion business, and so every day you look at the
evidence and you have an opinion. But a lot of
times it's very surface level based opinions, and especially when
legal issues are concerned. I try to dive into it,
right because I this is my legal background, maybe training,

(01:00:00):
and I've worked in the criminal justice system, and I
know how complicated these cases are. And it bothers me
in a big way. As soon as a guy's name
is attached to a sexual assault, a lot of people
immediately say that guy is guilty, that guy is an
awful human being and they just throw the book at him.
And Shawn Oakman, to me, is a great example of
this because three years it takes him to actually get

(01:00:23):
the opportunity to appear in front of a court, and
when a jury of his peers actually hears all the evidence,
they immediately basically agree unanimously, this is not a sexual assault.
There's no case here. But most people never even hear that, right,
because you know this, the initial headline comes out of
the sexual assault, and then the sports media disappears. Right

(01:00:43):
because we're not the sports media, good news doesn't sell.
But also because we're not most of the time sports
media members qualified to then follow court cases unless you're
a superhuman star, right like Ray Lewis or Mike Tyson
or somebody that is of that ilk where it's gonna
be our Aaron Hernandez for that case, where the case

(01:01:05):
is actually gonna be covered on television. The Shawn Oakman's
of the world, people just vanished, like the A. J.
Johnson's in Tennessee, and all that's left is that scarlet letter. Right.
People remember the charge, they oftentimes don't remember the exoneration.
And I try to share these things and I'm not
saying I was perfect in the way that I talked
about the Baylor case. Because the other thing, Coach, and
you know this is if you're a guy and you

(01:01:27):
defend somebody who is charged with a crime like this,
then people come after you and they say, oh, look
at that guy. And people worry about getting tired and feathered,
they worry about the mob coming after them, and so
there's got to be a villain. And we just walked through.
You said there was one guy who committed crimes and
ended up graduating from from Baylor. But the big ones

(01:01:49):
that got a lot of attention are Sam who con
watch you whose name I might be mispronouncing, and Sean Oakman,
who were both ultimately found not to have committed crimes.
And for all of that, the bailor president loses his job,
the athletic director loses his job, and you lose your job. Um,
and I want to say this, I believe the athletic

(01:02:11):
director is an athletic director somewhere now, right. I know
he got another athletic directing job, right, and also, uh,
he was out of work for six months. And then also,
and this is crazy to me, Ken Starr, who a
lot of people will recognized the name, even if they
didn't remember that he was the president of Baylor. He
is one of Donald Trump's defenders in the Senate. The

(01:02:34):
President of the United States of America hires ken Start
to represent him arguing in the well of the Senate
against impeachment, which is arguably arguably the single most important
job that any lawyer can have in America. And I
didn't hear hardly anybody even mentioned the Bailor incident. But

(01:02:56):
you coach, are not allowed to coach in the cfl
end You aren't allowed. A lot of people didn't want
you to coach. Now you're coaching in high school football.
Why do you think you ended up the one guy
who was in that room, uh, and in the Baylor's
sort of administration who was untouchable, and everybody else seems
to be able to get jobs. I think everybody on

(01:03:17):
your staff got jobs. Why do you think that happened? Fortunately,
everybody did end up getting a job, And Clay that
if I could answer that question, I would, you know,
I would certainly uh bringing a lot smoother these days.
It's just it's mind boggling to me, quite honestly. I mean,
if you're the you know, if you're the leader of

(01:03:39):
a program, or you're the captain of the ship, or
however you want to say it, you know, then then
that's that's where the blame is going to go. I
think a couple of telling facts are is that, you know,
once they dismissed me, um, you know, the whole staff
stayed intact, you know, for the whole next year. They
got they may work there and stayed the whole the

(01:04:00):
whole next year. So it wasn't like it was a
culture a bad you know, characters and bad people and
stuff that was going on. You know, I mean, they
just I think they needed uh, somebody that they could
uh you know, pointed to Uh, I'm not And do
you feel like you were Do you feel like you
were the fall guy? I don't. I don't think there's

(01:04:22):
any question, you know, And uh, you know, it's like
I said, it's a situation where I'm I'm not trying
to sway somebody's opinion. But I think if you do
study the facts you know that are involved in the
in the Invader's scandal or situation or whatever you want
to call it, then I and as they start coming

(01:04:42):
out more and more just like we had a deposition,
you know, a couple of weeks ago with one of
the border regents who said the coach files was not
dismissed for mishandling any sexual conduct sexual cases. And you know,
I told the lawyer that did the deposition, I said, well,
you'd have a hard time getting American leave that, you know.
You know, but that's coming from a group. It's mouth. Yeah,

(01:05:05):
it's just it's mind boggling to me, and I believe
I'm correcting this. Baylor's legal counsel sent a letter to
you saying specifically that you did not fail or discourage
victims from reporting to law enforcement or university officials. That
basically your behavior, as if people wanted somebody to be
responsible here. But Baylor itself and its own investigation cleared you, right, yeah,

(01:05:31):
I mean one thousand percent. And then you know, all
the way through, I never talked to a victim, never
text with a victim, never did anything my entire nine
years at Baylor and well eight football seasons and nine springs.
And you know, they had access the Pepper Hamilton's, Baylor officials,
everybody had access to everything that I ever did because
I had one phone. The whole time I was there,

(01:05:52):
they got a hold of it, took everything out of it,
had one computer, did everything out of my computer, and
you know, so it's you know, um so it was
pretty transparent from that in you know, and um so,
I don't know, it's been a it's been a situation
where I've just tried to you know, keep a real
positive attitude. You know. I feel extremely you know, bad

(01:06:17):
and and hurtful for you know, girls and people that
were victimized during my time there. But you know, uh,
it's sadly, that's just you know, kind of the way
the world is today, you know. And I hate to
say that, but that's that's just a reality. I mean,
it's a it's the world's in the situation where you know,

(01:06:40):
if you're not very very protective of of yourself, you're
around and you know something you know back that happened.
But that's just just the way it is today. So
um you know, I said, I feel I feel, you know,
terrible for the things that went on while I was there,
But when you look at the facts of the situation

(01:07:00):
and how we handled them, even without you know, preparation,
that we had won the whole time, I was there.
I was never given any direction on how to handle
any discipline at all in any situation. We didn't get
title nine until November of um, you know, and nobody
ever directed me on anything. So um, you know, we

(01:07:21):
just kind of did the best with what we had.
And at the end of the day, some border regions
felt like that one good enough, and I think they
felt pressured into making a change. And you know, I
was the guy to do the change with. I just
didn't know that they you know, that it would go
to the next level of where you know, I would be. Uh.

(01:07:42):
I guess you could just say unhirible in any situations
right now. So when you lost your job, were you
stunned that it had gotten to that level? Did you
have any indication that you were going to be in
By the way, it wasn't just you who lost their jobs.
Ken Starr lost his job as president of the university
because the larger investigation revealed issues that weren't unique to football,

(01:08:04):
that were related to Baylor in general. UM and and
and and also the athletic director. But like I just said,
those guys get you know, got another a d job.
And ken starrs representing Donald Trump in the well of
the Senate during the impeachment trial, and yet you can't
coach in the CFL. I would to ask you answer
your question. Was I shocked, just completely completely shocked. It was,

(01:08:29):
you know, I was made of seen, you know. And
I'm in there meeting actually with Todd Graham and two
of his offensive staff guys had come from Arizona State
to talk offensive football on Thursday morning about It was
about seven thirty in the morning, and and you know,
we just had a meeting with the boarder of Select

(01:08:50):
Border Regions two nights earlier. I asked for maybe because
one of my friends that was on the board told
me they had a straw vote in Houston Friday before.
And he said, Coach, it doesn't look good, you know,
and actually said I failed to miss. I had to
leave go back to the regions. I mean a board
of directors meeting in Dallas. Another guy that was on

(01:09:10):
the board that was kinda friend of mine, was in
California at the time and wasn't at the meeting. He said,
and I said, you're telling me they're gonna they're gonna
let me go and not even give me an opportunity
to talk to him. He said, well you can make
this call. This costs if you get something together. So
I did and I got me at me and Ian
in front of the Select Board of Regions, select Group

(01:09:33):
of Border Regions. This is your athletic director at the time. Yes, yeah,
Ian McCall and a great man, just one of the
best ever. Um. And so you know, we did that
meeting choose and I was I was worried, you know,
I was. I was really worried about Ian and some others.
I mean, I've had a personal staff come in and
who he had gone a wall for three days and

(01:09:54):
you know, contemplating, you know, not carrying on. And so
it was. It was a really really uh intense time,
you know, because of all the pressure that we're getting
as a university and as a football staff in me
particularly as a head football coach. So and Ian was
getting a lot of it. And like I said, there's
not a better person that I've ever been around, and

(01:10:16):
him the calling. UM. So I was worried about him.
And we go meet Tuesday and I hear nothing the West,
you know, I you know, I want to check on
me and say he's doing I calling, no response, he
doesn't call me back. It's extremely uncommon. Um. And then
I get a call from the first morning. He says, coach, Wow, Uh,

(01:10:37):
what you're doing. I said, well, and you know, I'm here,
been missing with these guys. And I said, are you okay,
you know he said. He says, I'm fine. But he says, um,
they're don't let you go. I said, your kid and
said no. I said, what's what's the deal? And he said, well,
they just don't think you're the right man to lead
the program at the time, which is just like taking

(01:10:59):
up a knife and sticking through my heart because um,
you know, they kind of felt like that, but like
as the right guy the previous eight seasons, you know,
and all of a sudden, I'm not the right person
to do it. And so he said, we're supposed to
meet with you know, the general counsel and HR person

(01:11:21):
uh here in the in thirty minutes, you know, in
my office. So you know, I go up there and
you know, we we sit there and you know, he
has to do it because it's got to be a
formal situation, you know, and he says, hey, we're we're
letting you go with I think they used word intent

(01:11:42):
to terminate. You know, it's like a ten day pers
or something there they have to do and um, so
you know, the world just just spends. The stops and
and I've actually got I've got I've written a book
that i haven't put out there. It took me a
year and a half to write it. Play but so
it's got all this this inside personal stuff in it.

(01:12:03):
But you know, it's just, I mean, the world just stops.
And did you write that book because you felt like
you needed to have even if it didn't get published
one day, it mattered to you to put the whole
story out there from your perspective, I mean, just for
self therapy, quite honestly, I mean because you know, it
just it just changes you as a person. And it's just,

(01:12:26):
you know, because I've always, you know, been a guy
that's tried to be extremely fair and honest and loyal
of people. And really what what made me a good
coach is kind of what you know, at the end
of the day got me a little bit of trouble
because I've always trusted people, and I've been very loyal,
you know, it's always trusted everybody, uh, you know that
make decisions, uh, and been loyal to them as much

(01:12:49):
as I could all the way through. And at the
end of the day, you know, the one thing I
found out is that, sadly that you know, protecting the image,
protecting the hand sometimes more important than uh counted by
the heartness soul, and I can I can understand that
from the outside. From the inside, it's hard to understand.

(01:13:11):
You think Baylor basically made the decision if we let
our briles go, all of the negative attention will disappear.
And you were what they served up to the media
to serve, to pay penance for all of the negative
attention surrounding these incidents. Even if years later, sam Ka
watch you as well as Sean Oakman would actually be

(01:13:34):
found innocent or not guilty, You depend on how you
want to qualify it. Of the crimes, it didn't matter
in the short term. Baylor needed the stories to disappear,
and serving you up sort of your head on the
platter was the best way they decided to do that.
I think so. And I think what they didn't see
is that they had a university wife problem. I think

(01:13:56):
they knew it on the inside. Uh, they knew where
the problems were with um, with the way that they
were responding to sexual assault cases outside of even the
football universe, just at the university as a whole, and
they knew that was going on. They knew that victims
were not being handled properly, that they were, you know,

(01:14:16):
being encouraged not to report and not to keep going
on and which is completely wrong. And there were no
places for these victims to go. And so that I
feel like they they thought that if if they let
me go, then that'll ease things out. They'll try to
get things right on the inside, where when they do
get scrutinized later on, that you know, they can stay

(01:14:39):
here at where we are, and they are in good
shape now. And I think, you know, it is better
for the for the victims and the students at at
Beata University now than it was eight years ago. It's
also better for the administrators also better for the staff,
you know, because everybody there is a plan in place now.
But at the time that's happening, I mean, I think

(01:15:01):
you're home sent right. I think the great thank you know,
we let you let coach files go, it'll back them
all some and then you know, we'll be able to
fix up problems and move on. But those those problems
are known about and gonna be known about. Food lawsuits
that are still out there, there's some of the victims. Now,
what do you wish you had done? Differently? Everybody goes back.

(01:15:23):
I mean, you watch a in a in a much
less serious fashion. You watch a football game. You go
back and you watch the tape and you say, dog
gone it. I should have done this on third d
eight and instead I didn't. That's what you're comfortable with,
and that's what you're used to. Like, you're a football coach,
so you're used to doing that. Finding yourself in the
center of a media storm surrounding intensely serious allegations of impropriety,

(01:15:47):
You're not a politician, right, Like, you're not somebody. You're
not Donald Trump or Barack Obama or you know, Bill
Clinton or some of these guys who you know live
in scandal all the time. Because you're the president. You're
used to people like in that same way, what do
you wish you had known? To go back to our
brils in two thousand and fifteen as this story was
starting and tell yourself that you know now that you

(01:16:10):
didn't know then. Well, I mean just I mean, so
many things, Clay. I mean, first of all, just uh,
I mean just understanding uh, how how powerful, uh you know,
the media can be, and just you know, how things
should spin out of control so quickly, I mean, the

(01:16:31):
thing and you hit it and it's and it's it's
you know, it's only it's my fault. But I'm just
I was. I've always just been a football coach. And
I really think coming up through the high school rings,
you know, getting into college and then getting on national
singing and debat or where we got to. You know,
I just as a coach and as a you know,

(01:16:51):
a person or leader of the program out there. You know,
I just I was just going to coach football. I
think the thing I should have done differently is, you know,
my administrative levels, you know, should have been a lot better.
I shouldn't have maybe delegated as much responsibility to two
people as I did. As I did, Uh, you know,

(01:17:12):
I allowed myself to be protected, you know from some
of the things that were going on, which which is
my fault you know on it. And I think it
goes on all over the nation. I think a lot
of times, you know, coaches and support staff trying to
protect you know, the head coach or something along those
lines from just bringing day to day matters too. But um,

(01:17:35):
the suggestion I had one when I met with the
regents was just into me. It's like the NFL, you know,
I mean, you put an office in the football you know,
uh hallway that anything that happens with any of the
student athletes goes right there. You have a person that
handles all the discipline. That person comes down and tells me,

(01:17:57):
It tells, you know, football offer whatever, here's what we're
going to do with this student athlete. And you do
and you take it out of the coach's hands, you know,
and let coaches handle and not going to class and
missing study hall and all that stuff, but anything else,
let let somebody else handle all that. So yeah, I

(01:18:18):
made I made a lot of mistakes along the way. Um,
if I could, like you're saying, if I had stuff
I could change, I would. I would have you know, policies, procedures.
I would make sure that everybody was you know, up
on Title nine. Like I said, the whole time I
was at Beat, I never had a Title nine in
person with anybody. Um, And just just making sure that

(01:18:41):
everybody's on cue and I know that sounds, you know,
backwards like ten years ago, but that's that's where we were,
you know, in today's world, that is what's going on.
You know, everybody is aware, everybody's protected, everybody understands, and
it's a it's a it's a wait and see attitude,
which it should should be, and you know, always came

(01:19:03):
up to where you know, if if somebody is handing something,
the police or whatever, you you don't get involved. You
stayed uninvolved and let them handle that situation because that's
what they're supposed to do, and then you react whatever
they come up with. So, I don't know, it's it's
a tough question. I've asked myself that many times, and

(01:19:26):
I think the at the simple answer would be just
making sure that students, students both male and female, uh
know what to do when anything goes wrong and know
and they understand that they will be protected and they
will be believed until you know, proving that it's not
that way. Be sure to catch live editions about kick

(01:19:48):
the Coverage with Clay Travis weekdays at six am Eastern
three am Pacific talking to our Briles Wins and Losses podcast.
I'm Clay Travis. So you leave Baylor, you file a lawsuit. Again,
I mentioned that you've got a letter basically saying that
seems to be in many ways vindication. Why do you
think that a lot of people who are listening to

(01:20:10):
this podcast right now the first time that they will
hear that that letter exists, or that Baylor has said that,
you know, they didn't really find any inappropriate behavior in
your case, involving any of these sexual assault cases. Why
do you think the first time that many people are
hearing this is on this podcast, Why do you think

(01:20:30):
that isn't hasn't been a story. I think I assumed
you're a lawyer now since you mentioned the lawyer had
a couple of times and so yeah, So, I mean,
I don't know. I came to answer that because I
don't know what what you know, puts it out there.
I guess maybe because I didn't hire a big PR

(01:20:52):
firm to, you know, to push that out there and
get that word out there. Um, you know, I don't
I don't know, you know, I mean, I don't know
why that wasn't a big deal. It's a big deal
of me, um, but you know, it's it does not
seem to be a big deal, you know, to the
national national media. And that's okay, you know what I mean.

(01:21:14):
Like I said, I'm not going to try to tell
somebody else how to do the job. I mean, you
know you're doing your job. You're doing it, you know,
as you feel the best that you can. And I'm
not gonna sit here and evaluate you and say, hey, Clay,
I think you ought to do this a look differently.
I mean if but for a guy, yeah, sorry to
cut you off, but for a guy who you know,
the coin of your realm when you're a coach is,

(01:21:36):
in many ways your loyalty. Right Are you treating people well?
People find out about that in your business. They talk
about it. You mentioned earlier Brandon Stewart going to University
of Tennessee. David Cutcliffe and Phil Former call you and
they say, hey, man, Peyton mannings coming. We want you
to know, uh, you know how recruiting works. If high
school coach hands you one of their best players, they

(01:21:58):
want you to treat that kid well. And if you don't,
eventually that's gonna come back on you because they're gonna say,
you know what, Dad, mom, grandma, grandpa, I wouldn't send
my boy to go play for that guy. Obviously, based
on your history, that does not seem to have been
an issue with you, Uh, with the success that you
had at Houston and Balor in Texas Tech and all
the other high school places. So what does it feel

(01:22:21):
like for you though, to go from in two thousand
and fourteen, the thing people think of when they hear
our Briles is, man, that guy is an offensive genius.
He's got a hell of a football program. Two in
two thousand nineteen, when your name comes up, the first
thing many people think is, oh, that's our Briles. He
helped to cover up rape so he could win football games.

(01:22:42):
I I just I can't imagine what that feels like.
I just I would I would drive me insane. I mean,
I'm gonna be honest with you because not that I would,
just because in this situation, it seems like you have
a very good argument to make against that and your reputation,
and you're sixty four years old. Your reputation has changed

(01:23:03):
and it may not be in a valid way at all. Yeah,
it's that that's extremely hurtful and painful. I mean, only
my only defense on that is that I know people
that know know and if if, if people want to
make that assumption, uh, that's just what it is. But
there's no truth to it at all. Zero, I mean

(01:23:24):
absolutely none. And you know, I'm I'm okay with you know,
what's what's where I'm at in my faith because I'm
just I'm just a you know, I'm a football coach.
That's why I went to Italy and coach you know,
thirteen games last year and then came back in American
coach thirteen games count SCREMBA. So I coached in ball

(01:23:44):
games in twenty nineteen. You know, I'm not sure anybody's
ever been a head coach through twenty six games in
the season anywhere, plus implementing to our offenses, one of
them in a foreign language. So you know, I mean
it's you know, being known as a as a offensive
you know, guru or whatever or this culture that coach.

(01:24:04):
That's that's that's never been important to me. I mean,
what's been important to me is just being in the game,
helping kids be successful, seeing success through your eyes into
theirs and letting them see what they potentially can do
and help them get there. And then just you know,
having the game and loving the game. To me, the

(01:24:24):
the fun part of the game is it's a preparation.
It's not fun of the game itself, but it's all
the work and preparation that goes into the study, the lifting,
the running, the mental part of the game, which is
what I learned more from Billy On than anything else.
Just intellectual part of the game. So that's that's the
part that that fires me up and keeps me going.

(01:24:46):
And that's you know, that's why I'm still doing it today.
So you know, I can't change people's opinion of me,
but people that know no and my my name and
my reputation, and I hate it for my grandkids, you know,
that's that's if I can't hurts me more than anything
else because when they talk about their their granddaddy, and

(01:25:08):
I got five of them, you know, I want them
not to have to worry about looking over their children.
And says somebody's whispering, So that that part of it
is uh is extremely painful. I I can only imagine.
And uh, some people are gonna listen to this. In fact,
a lot of people will not listen, right and they
will hear Oh, Clay Travis talked to our briles, UH

(01:25:32):
and they will attack me, right, They'll say, Oh, Clay Travis,
he talked to our briles. Look at Clay Travis. He's
trying to help our briles. That guy. You know, those
guys are both awful. That's what some people will say.
And You're not trying to help meet Clay, And I'm
not trying to get help, you know, We're just talking.
And I'll tell you the great thing about me is that, honestly, uh,
this is the first time I've ever talked to you,

(01:25:54):
the first time I've ever listened to anything you've ever done.
So I'm not a social guy and I don't mean
and I could say that, you know in general. Yeah,
I'm just not so uh you know, I you know,
know you do a heck of a job because I
got a friend that listens to you. Oh think is
he tells me you're good. So that's why we're talking.

(01:26:14):
That's why we're talking. We literally have never talked on
the phone before this interview started, so that I want
to put that out there. But also this, I just
want to say one of the challenges that we live
in in this social media age, and I will bring
the media in. I asked you a media question. You're
not a media guy. I am. I will say to
people who are listening to this right now, there is
a segment of society that will not only want to

(01:26:37):
tar and feather you are briles, which we have seen
clearly happen based on uh, the situation at Baylor. But
there are people who will tar and feather me for
talking to you right like, I guarantee you if you
just as this thought experiment here go For people who
are listening, you can google and you will google our
Brile's Clay Travis after this interview goes up, and there

(01:26:58):
will be people who right articles saying Clay Travis is
an awful human being talking to awful human being are briles?
Because we live in this era where people want to
make everybody either a hero or a villain, the greatest
or the worst. And what's scary to me, and I
say this are because I think you're We've done stories
like these before where I look into all the facts

(01:27:19):
of the case and I start to say, man, you know,
the way the media has covered this is not necessarily
representative for what the facts are that I'm seeing. And
that is what I think will happen here and that's
a little bit scary, right. It's not only that you're
getting attacked, it's that there's a lot of media people
who are afraid to even allow you to tell your
story because they're worried they're gonna get attacked. Yes, sir,

(01:27:42):
well I didn't. I hate that for you, but you know,
I just I I said it the first time we've
ever taked Clay. Uh. But you know, I mean, we're
just we're just telling truth and talking football. I mean,
that's that's all I'm about. I mean, if you asked
me a question, I'm gonna answer it truthfully and and

(01:28:03):
go from there. So that's that's just just you know,
that's just who I am and what I've always been about.
So absolutely, yes, sir, I know you're busy. You were
nervous about talking for very long. I told you were
going to talk for thirty minutes, and you said you
didn't think you talked for forty five minutes in your life.
So this is, yeah, missing, you're missing a pretty morning

(01:28:24):
in Texas. All right, last question for you, what do
you want going forward? You're sixty four years old. You
said you coached a bunch of games in Italy in
a foreign language. You coached in high school football. In
an ideal world for you, you're younger than Nick Saban,
You're younger than Bill Belichick. There's a lot of guys
coaching into their seventies now and having a lot of success.

(01:28:47):
What do you want to happen in football for the
rest of your life? In an ideal world, if somebody
get brought you a magic wand and you could wave it,
what would you have happen? You know, just when when
you first asked the shee without putting football on it,
the first thing came out was peace. You know, what
do you want out of the rest of your time?
It's just it's just peace. Uh. And then the football

(01:29:10):
related one. I don't know, you know, I mean I
would be I think I would be dishonest with myself
if I if I said I wouldn't like to be back,
you know at the at you know, the collegiate level
or NFL or any level running running offense. You know,
it's going in as a position or analyst or something

(01:29:32):
like that. Not really exciting to me other than maybe
the opportunity to help, you know, carry the narrative in
a different direction. Um, just by somebody having faith in
me and understanding exactly what went on. But you know
what I want to do is, uh, you know, I
want to I want to coach a football team. I
want to run an offense, help with special teams because

(01:29:54):
I love special teams. Because everything to me, ever, ever
snap that ever occurs on the field is football situational
related to whatever is going on. And there's eighteen factors
that go on before you ever call the play the offense.
So you're defensively, you know, before each snap. So that's
a that's a whole another story. But to answer to
answer your question, it would be, you know, the opportunity

(01:30:17):
to coach it, you know MC murray University in ablen
Texas as you know, as the head coach, but to
be able to do what we do and let me
do it. Because if you go in there as a
position coach or maybe sometimes as a coordinator, you know,
you always got somebody looking at you and and kind

(01:30:37):
of trying to get involved what's going on. So that's
that's why I'm happy where I'm at in high school
right now, because you know, I'm calling the plays, running
the running of the offense, and we're doing stuff that
other people probably wouldn't do because they'd be afraid of
the scrutiny, you know, with the philosophical and personality uses
that we do. And uh, I'm not worried about that

(01:30:58):
because I'm doing what we feel like. There's our guys,
the best opportunity to win our Briles. I can legitimately say,
this is the most interesting conversation I've ever had with
a man that I never talked to before. That's you've
never talked to anybody else, be for the first time,
So this is it. But no, I appreciate you, and um,

(01:31:20):
I appreciate your love for the game. Thank you are Briles.
Appreciate all of you. That's been the Wins and Losses Podcast.
I'm Clay Travis. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed it,
subscribe and go check out some of our other long
form conversations as we talk wins and losses of life
with people from a variety of fields. Thanks for listening.
M

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Clay Travis

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Clay sits down with former Baylor HC Art Briles