Clay talks with BIG10 Commissioner Kevin Warren

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome in outkicked the coverage, wins and lost his podcast.
I'm Clay Travis. We've now done thirty seven of these
long form conversations and I appreciate all of you who've
been listening to them. A lot of great ones to
go listen to. Uh, this one going out as we
get close to Christmas twenty the end of what has
been an unbelievably challenging and difficult year for many of

(00:23):
you out there. Certainly the sports world has not been
immune from those challenges, and we bring in now the
commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, Kevin Warren, who has
dealt with a lot of those challenges himself. You haven't
been a commissioner very long, and I'm sure there was
no handbook to handle what was going on in t
appreciate you joining us, Commissioner Warren. Uh, Mary Christmas, Happy

(00:46):
holidays in advance. He appreciate you joining us on Christmas Eve.
I'm sure you're ready to turn the page into one
like a lot of people out there. Uh, you know play.
First of all, I just thank you for having me
on for your your show, and you know had had
some challenges I think for all of us, but I

(01:06):
think as you turn around and look back, I mean,
we we've been blessed um um um to be able
to work through some of the issues that we have,
and I'm looking forward to a really positive and productive one.
But but uh, you know, anytime we faced the challenges
like we did, um, but we're able to come through
them and stay together. I know we in the Big

(01:27):
Ten are stronger um then we were probably a year
ago at this time, because we've had to face some adversity,
and so I'm just I'm glad to be with you
here today, look forward to a great conversation, looking forward
to finishing up strong, but also looking forward to a
great all Right, We've got a lot that I want
to get into. But for people who listened to wins

(01:47):
and losses, we try to get to the background of
the person that we're talking about and talking with. And
I haven't read a ton about you, know you as
a young guy and how you ended up being big
and commissioner, And I think there's probably a lot of
people out there who have those questions. So we're gonna
start off right at the beginning, if if, if you're
cool with that, and roll through in this way where

(02:08):
did you grow up? What was your childhood like? How
would you describe it? Yeah, so I I graduated. Uh,
I'll go back even third that I was born in Phoenix, Arizona.
Both of my parents were educators. My father, uh Morrison Warren,
was a football student athlete at Arizona State University in

(02:30):
the mid forties. He went and fought in the war
for a couple of years and and and took a
leave from college, came back and finished up his college
career and was voted a couple of years ago and
one of the fifty greatest football players and Arizona State
football history. But he was an educator. He came back
graduator from college, got his master's from Arizona State, and
got his doctor from Arizona State, and then was the

(02:52):
elementary school principal for many many years, um, you know,
in Phoenix before later in his life he finally got
an opportunity to be a professor at Arizona States. I've
grown up around university campuses. My mother, who was really
the kind of the backbone of our family, also was
an educated educator. She didn't get her college degree until

(03:13):
she had me at forty years old, and went back
to college after that and graduated and earned her um masters.
She loved to read, she was a librarian. So I
grew up in the house of two educators and the
youngest of seven kids. My oldest brother played football at
Stanford in the in the sixties and so other. Athletics
was incredibly important in my family. But as you can imagine,

(03:36):
academics was number one, and you we didn't get a
chance to play sports until we proved that we did
our best in the classroom. So grew up in an
Enclaven Phoenix called South Phoenix UM and then probably in
around full fifth grade, moved to Tempe, Arizona. I said.
My dad was a professor, uh, then at Arizona State.
So grew up in in South Tempie, a nice um,

(03:58):
you know, simple neighborhood, and it was a student athlete
myself at at Michael's Deniza High School in Timti, Arizona.
Was a recruited basketball student athlete, more of a mid
major type player, and chose to go to the University
of Pennsylvania and played there and as a true freshman,
and Bob weinhowerd recruited me there, who I still stay

(04:19):
in touch with today. And then after my freshman year,
he came and took a job at Arizona State and
which was only five outs from my house, so actually
transferred back to Arizona State for a short period of time.
And then I finished up at Grand Kanya University and
Phoenix Arizona UH and I was very fortunate to have
a very strong college basketball career and and and eventually

(04:42):
went into their College Basketball Hall of Fame. But after
I graduated from UM from Grand King University, I did
go to Arizona State to get my m b A.
And then I had a sister who became sick who
was living in South ben at the time, and that's
how I ended up at at Notre Dame Law School.
So that was my educational background. And then got a
call one day from a friend who connected me with

(05:05):
a man by the name of Mike's Live who I
interviewed with who became like a father figure to me
and he hired me right out of law school. So
I got a chance with to work with Mike's Live
to do n c A investigations that we defended colleges
and universities UM. Mike went on to be the iconic
commissioner of the SEC and he told me eventually I
would be in college athletics one day, and and uh

(05:27):
he was he was right. But I went from working
with Slive to starting my own um sports and entertainment
representation firm, and then after that got a job with
the St. Louis Rams, again from another father figure, Dick Vermill,
and spent four years at the Rams, won a Super
Bowl with the greatest show on turf, had a stop
with the Lions as an executive position, and then went

(05:49):
back into private practice and worked on the deal to
help the Will family acquire the Vikings. And then we
moved to Minnesota in two thousand and five, thinking we'd
be there maybe for a year or so, and ended
up being in Minnesota for fifteen years and then which
subsequently led to me being contacted to have an opportunity

(06:10):
to meet with the Big Ten, and then I was
hired in nineteen as a commissioner. Had been a Big Ten,
had been here ever since. All right, I want to
unpack a little bit of that. That's a great run through.
We're talking to Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren. You said
your dad fought in World War Two? What did he
do and what did he tell you about that experience?

(06:31):
You know, one of the things my dad taught me,
and I really appreciate my my parents. You know, they
raised all of us, but especially me, and I was
the us to stay younger to seven kids is to
never make excuses, uh, to stand tall um, you know um,
and keep your shoulders back, keep your chin tight, to
stand tall and work through you know, issues, and to

(06:52):
always remember to account your blessings. That they would always
say that there's so many people in the world who
would love to be in a position to you're in
right now, regardless of that. And they've said that to
the from the day that I can remember, you know,
have fondest memories. But he fought World War two. He
was stationed in Germany, and he spent more time talking
to me about the Holocaust, uh than he did slavery.

(07:16):
And I think he felt that that you know, I
would I would learn about slavery by being a black man,
you know in America and you know, just understanding here
and people talk about it. But he said, I want
you to understand, just speak certain charcities that have occurred.
And he talked to me about Auschwitz and Lukinvall and
and and and the horrors of the Holocaust and said,

(07:37):
whatever you do, Kevin, make sure that you never let
either slavery or the Holocaust ever happened again. So those
are many of the lessons he had. Pictures, um you
know that he showed me from that we're taking into
concentration camps, and I just remember seeing the the you know,
many bodies stacked there. And so, you know, I just
appreciate both of my parents always being transparent, candid and

(07:59):
sharing with me, you know, things about life and and
challenging us to try to make sure that we have
the world and make the world a better place. What
was his experience like in the service? Obviously there was
a segregated army at that time. What was his role
Obviously I can't imagine, I mean, for any of those kids.
I'm fascinating about World War two history in general because

(08:20):
so many people and one of my favorite stories to
tell is I was reading about the hundred and first
Airborne and the then the toughness of those guys, uh
and what they did. But one of the stats, one
of the data points that stuck out stuck out to
me is the vast majority of people who were in
that airborne battalion, the hundred and first, the first time

(08:41):
they ever went up in an airplane, Kevin, they jumped
out of it. And to think about the bravery of that.
I mean, anybody who's ever been in an airplane. Most
of those guys had never been in an airplane before.
But think about how nervous you are the first time
you step on an airplane, at whatever age you are,
to be willing to jump out of an airplane the
first time you ever go up into it. I mean,

(09:01):
those guys were a different breed. And I mean and
most of them. You know, again, because of the parochial
nature of America at the time, the idea of going
to Europe, the vast majority of people would have never
gone to Europe, much less go to Europe fight Nazis
and end up in a world war. It's really remarkable
to think about all these nine year old kids and
what they did. And it was the Clay You're right

(09:24):
exactly on point. I mean, it's one of the things
that I just read. Um, you know, as I got older,
I started to recognize, you know, just data points in
people's age. I mean, you think about him I did
spent you know, the first two years in college, and
so you know, when he went to the wars, you know,
you're probably probably twenty years old. And and to think
that that, uh, to to go and serve for our country,

(09:46):
and to be proud to serve, you know, for our country.
A lot of the things that they did been we're
still benefiting, you know, from now. And so when you
put it in perspective, you know, at that age, and
and and and then and I even look at my
brother who's a hero of mine, you know, Morrison Warren,
who played it. You know, Stanford was a phenomenal student
athlete and ended up hurting his knee, but he never transferred.

(10:08):
He stayed there, graduated, but he volunteered to go to
He wasn't even drafted him, but he volunteered to go
find Vietnam. And so whether people agree with you know,
whether Vietnam shoot or shouldn't have to learn all those
you know, from a political standpoint, but it's just more
the moxie of the people that fought in World War
Two and the people that fought in all of our
wars to be able to go to to protect this

(10:29):
you know country. I just I mean I I as
I've gotten older and learned things about, you know, my dad,
things that he did, and most of the things that
he did were not told to me. A lot of
them were told to me by him, but were told
by others. And whether it was even at his funeral
that people who would say things that I didn't even
know about. And um, but I was just proud to

(10:50):
be a son and to see what he's he's done
for for the United States of America. How much age
rage was there between you and your oldest brother that
you were just talking about, because I think you said
you have the youngest of seven twenty years, Yeah, twenty years.
So he was actually a junior in college when I
was born. So my father, my mom and dad. My

(11:12):
parents were more like my grandparents. My grandparents were more
like my great grandparents. My brother Morrison, it was more
like my dad. So that's why he actually I have
a brother. My father's name is Morrison. My brother's name
is Morrison, and I have a nephew who's also names Morrison.
He's a We went to Notre Dame Law School together,
with high school together. He's a lawyer in Chicago now

(11:32):
for for a Chapman and cuddler, phenomenal lawyer, but he's
more like a brother to me because we're only two
years apart, and um and so yeah, but it's a
twenty year differential. So how do you think your childhood
compared to your older brothers and sisters if you're the youngest,
do you think because I kind of think about the
family dynamic aspect, I've got three sons myself there twelve there, twelve,

(11:57):
ten and six, and there's obviously, even though there's only
six years that separate my my you know, oldest and
my youngest, there's a big difference there between the oldest
and the youngest. I can't imagine twenty years it is,
you know, my and my siblings older siblings used to
tease me about it when I was younger. How much
how much more um, you know, harder and demanding my

(12:19):
parents were on them, you know than me. But then
they also told me, you know, I had different pressures
you know on me that they didn't you know have
because we had you know, there was a pier there
where we probably had three kids and you know, in diapers. Um,
So although there was a twenty year gap, you know,
I'm grateful for it because they gave me much more
time with my parents and my sister Maryland, who actually

(12:43):
was married to John Shoemate, who was a great basketball
player Notre Dame and played in the NBA for many years.
She she got married, I think it like nineteen or twenty,
so I was, I was a young teenager, so for
the majority of my life I was I was, you know,
almost like an only child. That's why I got close
to my nephew Morrison. But I had an older sister, Caroline,
who's the one who died of brain cancer. That my

(13:06):
wife and I started Caroline's Comfort you know, the scholarship
and uh foundation in honor of her. But she actually
went through a divorce, so she moved back into my
parents house and so she was there. So it was
good to have my older sister back in the house.
But but I just think, you know, my parents were
We were always fair with us. They did a good

(13:26):
job of knowing, um, you know, kind of the different
things that because all kids, you've got three, I have
to they're different. You know, they're saying similar in a
lot of areas, but they're different. But they always did
a good job of really understanding what we needed from
a you know, physical, emotional, you know, spiritual and mental standpoint.
And so I'm grateful to uh to to have grown
up in their house. How did your family end up

(13:46):
in Arizona? Uh? You know, interesting enough? My my my
mother was born in Douglas, Arizona, mining town, uh, in Arizona,
and her father was a soldier who station in Watchooka, Arizona.
And her mom um was a piece from Galaharajlisico, Mexico,

(14:08):
and he was a maid um and and so they
ended up Um. I think my grandmother met my grandfather
at the at the army base, and she was, like
I said, from Mexico, and they ended up getting married.
And my mom was born in Douglas and ended up
migrating up to Phoenix. UH. And my dad was he's

(14:29):
from errors, I mean, he's from Texas and so from Alan, Texas,
which ironically I believe is the hometown of Ladanian Tomlinson,
and my parents were there. My my grandfather was a
black male man from Marlin, Texas. My grandmother was predominantly
you know, African American and Choctar Indian, and they met
and had my dad and I think he had about

(14:50):
six or seven other siblings, and my dad moved to
Phoenix and um and um when he was about eighteen
months old. And and and so my grandfather although really
not not educated at all, um and and but he
was an entrepreneur and ended up I think only probably
the first black drudge store in Phoenix and uh and

(15:13):
then he was a porter at the Lure's Hotel in Phoenix, um,
Arizona for many years, so I ended up working uh.
You know. The story is that he worked I think
seventeen years, seven days a week and never missed a
uh day of work, you know, battle within Phanseema. He
was a no nonsense guy, Fred Hubbard Warren. And so

(15:33):
every time I'm in Phoenix, I really make it a
point to drive by. The Lures Hotel is still still
there because he was trihim to be a porter there,
for him to be able to go from being a
porter to uh to raise a family, you know, like
he did and because you know, I'm grateful for it.
And then my grandfather on my mom's side, her her dad,

(15:55):
he actually left home when my mom was in eighth
grade and never came back. They'd never seen him, so
I never got a chance to. So I have fond
memories of my grandmother, my maternal and paternal grand mothers,
and then of my uh um my grandfather on my
uh dad side, remember him. But but my grand grandfather

(16:15):
on my mom's side, I never met him, and because
he left home and my mom was in eighth grade
and the family has never seen him, you know, since then.
And so that was something that my mom always kind
of carried with her as a burden, as a kind
of empty place in her heart. And that's why family
was so important to her half family round because of
her father abandoned the family and not only impacted her,
but they, you know, kind of carried it down through generations.

(16:38):
With us, be sure to catch live editions about Kicked
the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern,
three am Pacific. We're talking to Big ten Commissioner Kevin Warren.
You said your dad was a PhD professor at Arizona State.
He had to be, I would think, just based on
the timeline to go to World War Two and then
end up a PhD professor, one of the first I

(16:58):
would imagine black pessors in Arizona State, Right, Yeah, he
was he was one of the early ones. What was
he a professor of in an education, administrative education he
taught you, of course, called the principal ship and interesting
of play. On my my office desk, I keep his
dissertation and uh and I'm just as literally on my
desk right now, and it's called the value of selected

(17:21):
public relations practices of building goodwill between school and community.
So he was he was really he read a laboratory
there that did a lot of research, the I D.
Pain Laboratory at Arizona State. And uh, but I keep
his dissertation on my desk just as a reminder of
kind of the work that he put in. And he
did so much for the community. He was vice mayor
in Arizona and sixty nine when you think about in

(17:43):
sixty nine, just right up there right now, almost in
the midst of civil rights movement. But to be vice
mayor in Arizona. He was very instrumental, um in in
in launching the Fiesta Bowl. You know, he loved love football,
love college sports. You know, loved the kind of the
bowl game and actual was the first I think African American,
you know, president of the Fiesta Bowl. When he when

(18:04):
he became president, but he volunteered so much time from
a political standpoint and educational didn't make a lot of money.
That was not his focus. But he told us, you know,
the importance. So he wanted to make sure he's sacrificed
to provide us an opportunity to have a great education
and exposure. He did that, you know with me, I
mean my parents interestingly enough, after forty nine years and

(18:27):
nine months of marriage ended up getting divorced, which is
the craziest thing. They made it forty nine years and
nine months and maybe got divorced divorced. And so I
tell people, you know, all the time that even Gret
and I are you know, will be coming up on
thirtieth wedding anniversary here in in uh in In in
about a year and a half. But I always stay

(18:49):
focused and you know, stay focused on you know, on
our marriage because you know, to see my parents go
through that. But because of that, um um and you know,
them having the cultis my dad ended up. I became
my dad's date for a lot of these events. I
remember him getting me uh sport code slacks and teaching
me how to tie a tie it, you know, ten

(19:11):
years old and so all of these you know events,
you know, his big board meetings and she has the
bold events. Me as a young teenager, I would go
with my dad, which which really helped me to kind
of understand and build relationships with with people and learn
how to sit at a dinner and hold conversation. And
so I'm grateful for that because that's been a big
part of my life. So I understand, I was reading

(19:33):
and doing some research when you were ten years old
you got hit by a by a car. I believe
it was right. Uh, what happened? What do you remember
about that day? And what was the impact on your
life of that event? Yeah, I mean it was. It was.
It was the most impactful event of my life ever,

(19:58):
because I think, you know, one of the things that
I recognized now, you know, as being a parent and
getting older in life, you you know, you recognize that. Um.
Sometimes it takes people, you know, many times well into
their thirties or forties to understand how fragile life is
and how special life is. And and I think that's
part of the reason why there's so much unhappiness in

(20:20):
life is people don't really realize, um, what a blessing
is to be alive. And so fortunately I was blessed
that you know, attend and a half years old. Uh.
To to understand that I was fortunate to be living,
I should have died that day in June. And uh
And as you said, I was riding my bike, you know,
minding my business. I was going up to the local

(20:40):
high school to play sports with friends. And you know
how how we were raised as uh. You know, both
of my parents worked. You know, you got up, you
made your bed up immediately, you said your prayers, you
take a shower, you brush your teeth. You know, you
did your chores. We all had, you know, a list
of chores. But because I was home other than you know,
with my sister, I had the most of them. But

(21:00):
you know, we did our chores and then you could
go play in the summer. And so I was going
up to play and then you heard a loud you know,
tire screeching, and uh, I was thinking, boy, that sounds
a little bit closer than it should be. And then
I just took a quick look from my peripheral vision
that could see the car, you know, hit me. And
that's the last thing I remember, but flew thirty ft
in the air. There were a couple of witnesses and

(21:23):
by the grace of God, landed on a plot of
grass and a little small you know grass you know area,
And and I remember, you know, being being knocked knocked
out and then you know, coming to and saying I
could get up. I vividly remember that. And the neighbor
um who lived in our neighborhood, I didn't know him,
but came running across the street and held me down.

(21:44):
I remember looking at my leg and I had a
compound fracture of my right steamer and uh, some other
you know injuries. But but just you know that that
whole journey getting in that ambulance and wondering you know,
what was going to happen, and and and just tasting
blood in my mouth and throat and and then going

(22:05):
to hospital and all of that. And for anyone who's
been you know, through those kind of medical you know
issues you don't you don't know until you know. And uh,
but then they're going to traction to be in the hospital. Um.
And you know, there are many nights looking over and
seeing my mom sleep on a on literally in a chair,
and uh and then my sister Marylyn Um you know,

(22:27):
sleeping there, they would they would rotate and take times.
But going through all of the you know, the the
drama there, and and then getting to the point when
they told me they were gonna take me out of
traction and get the pins out of my leg I
was so happy. I was thinking, boy, I get able
to go home. But then they said, you know, this
is when your fund really begins. We got to put

(22:48):
you in a body cast. So attraction was just to
to reset the leg um. But now we got to
put you in the body cast. And I'm telling you
what play that day. I remember that day vividly, and
still to this day I can't drink out of a
straw because when it touches my lips the memories that
brings back because they put me in this flat body
cast when all the way down to my toes of

(23:09):
my right foot, up to my chests right below my throat,
and then down three quarters on my left leg and
had a pole in between it. I have pictures that
I keep on my desk and me and Traction, but
I'm still trying to find the picture of me and
the body cast. And then for them to take me home.
And I spent months in that home by myself. Um

(23:29):
and uh, and just going through that issue, going to
the bathroom and a bed tan you know, drinking out
of straws. You know, that's when that's when there were
three or four channels, there was no cable, there was
no video game, there was no matten and then just
trying to read and and really just protect my mind
and to have to work through that. But you know,
I just recognized that life is truly a gift from God.

(23:50):
You gotta take advantage of it every day that you
have your health and you upright, you better do the
best you can. And so that's why I don't get
distracted on a lot of the issues that you know,
I say some of on a daily basis, because I'm
I'm for that should have been that, would that should
have been it for me and for for for my
life to be spared. I promised myself that day that
they cut that cast off to me, I was gonna

(24:11):
do everything I possibly could to make the world a
better place. So let's let's go into that. How many
bones did you end up breaking when you were hit
by the car? I broke the one I learned that
the hardest. Uh and and largest bone in your body
is your femur, which is in your thigh bone. Um
and uh, and it takes so much force to to

(24:33):
break it. So I broke my right femur and still
to this day, you know, I get a lot of
deep tissue massages on a weekly basis because still to
this day, um, you know, it's it gets sore. And
and then my right leg is a little bit shorter
than my left leg. So I broke broke one. But
it was the largest bone in my body, which is
I was fortunate, I mean to not have that, but

(24:55):
from you know, internal injuries, I actually, how funny you
say that actually broke my wrist, my left wrist on it.
But you know, just like most things in life, sometimes
we just focus on the really the big things. And
but but my left wrist was was kind of so
secondary there to my right femur. Is that was kind

(25:16):
of like, oh, yeah, you broke your wrist, but you know,
put a little put a little cast on that or
wrapped that up. That will be, that will be fine.
So you know, for me to to think that that,
you know, seven years later that I was able to
walk on a court, basketball court, and you know, at
the University of Pennsylvania and play college basketball. Is you know,
it was a grift. So how long were you actually

(25:39):
in the cast and in the traction? How long did
you have to spend in a bed recovering? You know?
This was this is the it was. I didn't go
back to school until um, like, I missed that first
semester of my of my um uh that school year.
So the accident happened in June. I didn't go back
to school until after the first year. So I was
out for you know, out through the summer and the

(26:01):
six months. Uh yeah, and and uh and then it
wasn't right after that, I mean, because you know it
was it was my leg literally was sore for years.
I mean, you know, I was on crutches after that.
It was on sore. But they got a chance to
uh you know, started doing a lot of water you know,
water aerobics and um you know, my my I had

(26:23):
a doctor who um, you know, and I appreciate doctors
being direct because they're they're not there just to make
people feel good. But he was really, you know direct.
I was accustomed to it at the time. My parents
raised us. They didn't filter any words, and he didn't
give me much of a chance to to to really
be able to play sports at a high high level. Again,
I was a sports fanatic you know, as a kid,

(26:45):
and it changed the whole structure of my body. I
went to being a very wiry, you know, finn young
kid to you know, gained a lot of weight, uh,
convening in the body cast because I was just dormant
for so long. But but he, you know, he did.
I kept asking him, you know, what can I do
to start walking out because I wanted to too. I
was so active, and he said, you in best thing
to do it swim and that you can do it

(27:06):
as um, you know, swim. And so I did end
up getting a legal settlement, not much, I think was
around thirty thousand dollars and and approach my parents said,
you know, to build a pool in our backyard, and
which they didn't have the financial resources to do it
at the time. And we had I remember temp High
school had a pool that would be open because this

(27:26):
is pre you know, this is pre help clubs and
pre lifetime fitness and all these different things and um,
and none of our family members had pools. And so
my parents reluctantly and I say reluctantly allowed me to
take a portion of my settlement to pay for a
pool that we built in our in our backyard, and uh,
you know, which was great because as a young person,

(27:48):
I started to understand the importance of having financial resources
and to make decisions. And when you make a decision
that you know the ride to check at that age
and basically, you know, ten and a half eleven years
old to build this pool, which I did, and it it
also taught me the importance of taking care of it.
So I got the leaves out of it. I learned
how to backwash the pool and the chlorine you know
that they didn't have. We didn't have a spa boy

(28:09):
that you know that the bill that floats around. We
did it all by hand. And I was really particular
about when people swam that they weren't doing things in
the pool that they should be in it. But I
really just just really started to grind out, you know,
my own workout, swimming um um and uh and a
lot of exercises and uh. And it took the weight

(28:29):
off my body because I wasn't able to run her
her jog right away, and and it it built me
back to the road to recovery. That's why I love
the water so much. Now I love to swim. And
interesting little enough, my dad I had to get odd
jobs because he didn't get his professorship at Arizona State
until later in life for various reasons. So in the

(28:50):
summer he was always a lifeguard, and so we grew
up around pools in the summer and learned how to swim.
And if you people read one thing they remember about
my dad if you came to our house other than
eating some really really good you know Mexican Mexican food
that my mom would make from scratch, and and and
learning how to dance and us play music, and you
know him telling stories, is that if you didn't know

(29:12):
how to swim, he would demand that he taught to
you how to swim. So I've seen him teach so
many people how to swim, and that he would he
would be able to do it. So I love I
grew up loving the water. I love the water now.
I love water and I love to swim. But it
was through all that exercise it got me back to
the point where I could, you know, start getting some
training in on the ground. But I continued my aerobic

(29:35):
exercises and and it nursed me back. So I'll tell
you what, when I got a chance to be able
to play um basketball again and all the other sports football, um,
But then it was just such an emotional day when
I was able to, uh to to really lace my
shoes up and be able to actually play college basketball.
How did you pass the time? You said, you're at

(29:56):
home sometimes by yourself. Your parents are both working, you know,
from June until let's say the end of the year
before you can go back to school. I mean that
that that image of not wanting to drink out of
a straw even now, because it reminds you of what
that experience was like a ten years old. I mean,
that's a lot of time to just lay in bed
and think and and have your I mean, I know

(30:16):
you said you had two re or four stations to
watch on television maybe, but that's a wild that that's
a wild experience, right, I mean, it's a it's a
profound experience for anybody, but especially for a young kid. Yeah,
it was. You know, I have a fortunately, you know,
my my oldest brother, Morrison, it was twenty years older
than me. His wife, Dorry Warrene was a nurse and

(30:38):
um and so she would come by and check the
me and she cared for me. I owe so much
to her. So it's my nephews Morrison's mom, but she
would come by and care for me, and she would play.
She was so positive. I mean, like that's why I
really recognized the importance of like words. You know. Both
of my parents were loving people, but they weren't like
you know, they didn't go out of their way to say,

(30:59):
you know, positive affirmation. I guess my mom did more
than my dad. My dad was just he was old school.
But Dory was so positive. She would tell me that
I was going to heal, my leg would get stronger,
and she gave me massages like on my um my
left foot and the tiptoes on my right and you know,
you know, scratching the top part of my back. And
I mean she was just so encouraging, uh to tell

(31:21):
me how I was gonna you know, be you know,
do be be able to live and and and be well.
And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm
comfortable in being a loner. Like I loved people, but
I spent a lot of time, you know, really alone
because that's what I learned. I'm not a much of
a TV watcher, never have been. I loved life sports
on TV. But I remember after the first couple of weeks,

(31:44):
I didn't I never even turned the TV on. It
was a little small black and white TV they they
put in my room. But I read UM and I
just kind of thought a lot. I mean I cried
a lot. I prayed and the Norman in order an amount,
but I really thought and that that's when I would
really have, you know, dreams and UM. And it was interesting.

(32:06):
I'm writing a book called Build your Own Pool, just
about the the journey that I went through with that.
And and I was talking to my sister. I was
I asked my sister a couple of months ago, I said, hey,
what do you remember about staying in the hospital with me?
And she goes, Kevin, I never told you, but she
said there were times that you would absolutely scream at
the top of your lungs um in the middle of

(32:28):
the night. I was like when And she says, you know,
so much more more so much mom. And I would
go to the doctor and say, and nurses, is everything okay?
And they told him no, he's having with these they
call night terrors. And when you've been through a traumatic
experience during the day, you can mask it and cover it.
But at night, when you enter into a certain level
of rem sleep, you know, you have what they call

(32:49):
these night terrors. And that's what I was going through.
She goes, that's what I remember. So I started to
research and and and and understand it. So I just
remember just praying a lot. I remember reading a lot.
That's when really fell in love with with reading. And
the biggest thing I remember, you know, dreaming a lot
that cladies were some long days, especially in the summer
in Arizona. It gets light early and it stayed light late.

(33:12):
I could hear the kids playing outdoors. Um, and I
remember one day vividly when I was probably at my
lowest moment. You know, it was in the dead of summer.
Uh you know, kids were playing. They would I would.
I would ask my parents that when they leave in
the morning, to at least open up changes. As I
started feeling a little bit better, I love the you know,

(33:34):
the sunlight looking outside, and I remember I was at
one of my lowest moments, like, am I gonna make
it through this? And I remember seeing a bird um,
you know, just kind of land almost like at the
at the tree right outside my window, and was staring
at me, and it was it was almost like God
was speaking to me. It was almost like nature saying
And that was that. That was my lowest moment. Every
day from then I just kind of got a little

(33:56):
bit closer, a little bit you know, closer. And then
I remember bread I would go get these checkups that
have to barb our our neighbor's station wagon. They would
put me in the back of the station hagging no
seat belts and drive from Tempe the Phoenix. I'd be
sliding around in this cast um and then they would
carry me out. Two people would grab my legs and

(34:18):
carry me in there. But I remember when I went
in the day that I went in and get that
cast off um. And you're talking about the static. So
I have I don't have many regrets, but too regrets
I had when they cut it off. They asked me
if I wanted to keep it, and uh, you know,
I said absolutely not. I wish I would have kept
it um. And then the other thing, I saved my

(34:39):
bike for my accident. For probably thirty five years, I
had it in my parents shed in the backyard right
by the pool I built. And when my my dad,
my parents were divorces, I said, And when my dad died, um,
they hired a company to come over and clear clean
up everything, and you know, having the state cell. And
they threw my bike away because I would living in

(35:00):
Detroit and working at the lines at the time, and
they threw you know, my bike away, and I would
have loved to have just you know, had that. But
uh so, yeah, I just I thought a lot, and
I prayed a lot. I made my mind up. I
would come up with what I call these dream lists
of things that I was going to accomplish. You know,
my mom being around a librarian. I love globes, and
I would dream of what I wanted to travel to,

(35:22):
you know, in the world, what I was gonna really do.
And I knew that I would. I wanted to become
a doctor to help people, or a lawyer, and and
and so it was a great time. But what it did,
it gave me really just kind of great level of
mental toughness and and and and I just made my
mind up if I could get out of this bed
and walk again, and I would never complain about anything.

(35:43):
I would embrace every workout, I would embrace every day.
I would help as many people as I possibly could.
I would count my blessings, and I would spend the
rest of the days on on on the earth trying
to make a you know, make the world a better place.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app

(36:05):
search f s are to listen live. We're talking to
Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren. I'm Clay Travis. This is
the Wins and Losses Podcast. What did you read? What?
What was when you're ten years old and you're locked
in that bed? Like? What was the what? What was like?
I grew up. I loved the hardy boys, right Like
I would read every little mystery, Like what were you
reading at that point in time? You know a lot

(36:27):
of the stuff that I I read because my my
mother was a librarian is uh, you know, did did
magazines and I just read whatever I got my you know,
hands um, you know, hands on and she would, you know,
she quite naturally give me give me books. Uh. My
parents were big into encyclopedias, and I remember a lot

(36:48):
of the reading that I did. I know this sounds
crazy and I'm embarrassing even say it from a nerdy standpoint.
Is uh, my dad would always challenge us like just
go grabbing encyclopedia, loving encyclopedia and just you know, open
it up and just to just to to read. I
remember when the Encyclopedia Britanica. I tell my kids to say,
look at me, like, what are you talking about? You know,

(37:08):
salesperson would come by the house and my dad we
always had those in my in my parents family room
growing up. That he would be that was a big
deal for people, for people who don't know, like if
you remember my parents buying the encyclopedia, because that was
the internet before you had the internet, right, Like any
question you had, Mom and dad would say, hey, go look,
I remember we had the World Book Encyclopedia in the house.

(37:30):
They weren't right, but if your parents value learning that
you had an encyclopedia set, that was a big deal
and you go look it up because you know, there
wasn't any Mom and dad didn't know the answer to everything,
but they're like, that's all the encyclopedia. Go look it up,
go read it, go look it up. So my parents
and my mom would would leave some of those by
my bed in the morning and I would. I That's

(37:51):
what I really ended up reading most of and I
just I just love to learn, and you know, but whatever, whatever,
you know, Okay, I got our through. I got a
heart through yesterday. And uh, you just flip through and
you start reading about you know, famous people in the world.
You read about, you know, different countries, and you know
you learned. I learned. I learned so much. And I

(38:12):
just really gave me my institiable desire just to to
kind of learn and know. And I'm constantly if I
hear one thing, you know, I just don't take the answer.
I'll go look and and and you know, learn about.
Like I said, I love reading biography biographical material about
people because one thing I found out, Clay, whoever it is,
you know, most people, especially who have kind of made

(38:35):
it to the top of the proverbial mountain, that you know,
people recognize that it gets windy. I mean, you know,
you can stand on the ground and wind can blow
and it won't knock you over. But the higher you
go up a mountain is that the wind blows. I mean,
you know, it gets it's it's it's it's hard to
stand up. So I recognize that, and so I love
reading the struggle and the journey about people. And so

(38:58):
regardless of it is, I don't care for some athlete
and entertainer someone like you to do what you do.
We all have those times in our lives when we
were we were worried about how we were going to
get to the next day. And I love I love
reading about people's kind of struggle and then for them
to be able to make through it. So that's why
I love the encyclopedia. We're talking to Kevin Warren big Ten, Commissioner.
So I want to jump ahead because you went to

(39:19):
law school, and I'm fascinated by people who what their
experience in law school? Was your lawyer? Yeah, yeah, I
went to Vanderbilt for a law school, ended up doing
what I do. Now, what was your experience like at
Notre Dame. How did you find your first year of
law school? How did you like law school in general
during that process? That's a great question. I'll tell you

(39:43):
mine was a little different than most people because one
I had gone to NBA school, front I was a
little bit older than some of my classmates, and I
went to Notre Dame. I got admitted to the NBA
j D program at Arizona State. But I got a
call from my sistem, the one who cared for me,
you know, is like call it spiritual synchron spiritual synchronicity, um.

(40:04):
And she was the one who cared for me in
the hospital of what I had my accident. She was
really struggling and I had two little kids. They were
living in South in Indiana, and so she asked me
to come care for her. And so I finished my
NBA at Arizona State went to Notre Dame. So when
I went to Notre Dame, I went there with a purpose,
you know. I went there to to one My number

(40:25):
one goal was to get my sister back to being
healthy and cared for her two kids. And so I
was incredibly early in the morning. Um, however were the kids.
I They were young, they were like four and six,
and you're at you're at this point, like, how old
are you at this point? I'm twenty three years old

(40:47):
and you got no kids yourself, not married, like you're
otherwise single guy, Yeah, single guy. And lived in her
basement and cared for the kids. Ironically, both of our
lawyers now John Athony is a lawyer in greenberch Charge
and Phoenix, and my niece but D is a lawyer
in d C. To the family law. So it was interesting.

(41:08):
So I cared for them. My brother in law was,
as I said, John Schoemate. He was on Bigger Phelps
the staff at the time, so he was out recruiting.
So I was I was doing you know, doing what
what what you're supposed to do. So by the time
I went to class in the morning, I had already
had a full day my you know, my run in
and my push ups and sit ups, got two kids,
you know ready, uh, you know for school, did my

(41:30):
my homework readings, helped my sister. So when I went
to school, I was there on a mission and I
was not fooling around. I was not you know, focused
on who could drink the most beer and um and
I loved Notre Dame. It was a great law stuel
was smaller, we had a smaller class and um. And
so I actually loved law school because back to my
days of reading, like I love to read, I love

(41:52):
to learn. Um. It was really hard. I mean I
did well in school. But I was one of those
people that had to spend a lot of time and
did not come you know, naturally, and so I had
to really really read and brief my cases and took
you know, great notes, and um had my my nephew Morrison,
you know, teases me. He said, Kevin, you were you know,

(42:12):
your notes were legendary. But as he actually was in
the law school class right behind me. He came to
law school, so he took all the classes I took
and and you know used my he got the benefit
of all your hard work. Yeah, I enjoyed law school
crust of learning. It was really hard, you know for me,
by by, I enjoyed it. And because of what and

(42:34):
I tell people, I tell my kids, even if you
don't plan on practicing, go go to law school, because
you get a chance to learn how all this in
the world fits together. There's nothing you can do without
you know, without a lawyer. You can't buy a house,
you can buy a car. You can't you know, you
can't go to college, every all the legal documents. So
I enjoyed it. And uh and the thing that also

(42:54):
helped me enjoy it is for my nephew to encourage
him because he didn't know what he wanted to do,
to encourage him to come to law school, and then
to help um facilitate him coming to Notre Dame Law
School of anavisy how well he's doing in his legal career.
You know, it was great, But I I enjoyed it.
I was one of those nerds that you know, love
to read and and and love to write, um and learned.

(43:16):
We had phenomenal you know professors and and some of
our text uh books were written by them. But like
even our criminal law criminal procedure professor was Robert Blakeley,
who was you know, one of the founders and originators
of who you know who wrote the reco law laws
and and he would tell us stories um, you know
that were amazing. Charles Rice, you know Professor Rice who

(43:38):
was our torts teacher, and and and Professor Murphy, you
know who wrote the contracts book so to be at
Notre Dame. And then our deep dean was iconic Dean
David Lincoln. I remember our night before law school. I
go to Notre Dame. I finished my NBA first of all,
like three or four days before class starts. I get

(43:58):
across country get to South Bend and uh get you know,
scored away the basement of my sister's better laws Holmes
and we go to a picnic a Deanling's house and
and then he takes us over to the law school
that same weekend, and we watched To Kill a Mockingbird
and and this you know, they'll watch that movie without
a ascense and and to sit there. And I remember

(44:20):
at the end of the movie, we were in the
courtroom at Notre Dame and he looked at us and
he said, you're here. Became the Notre Dame. And our
goal for for you and for all of us is
to build a different kind of lawyer. We don't want
you to be a lawyer, uh just any lawyer. We
want you to be different. And I remember what he'll
I'll never forget. He said, we're here to basically if

(44:41):
we if we were a car factory, we would be
we would be producing Miserati's We want to be really unique.
When you see him, you say, Okay, that's a Notre
Dame lawyer, and that that movie every time I watched
To Kill a mocking Bird and brings back memories and
I'm I'm so grateful for Notre Dame. I love Notre Dame.
I love the education that I received their on the
law school standpoint, and it was it was a blessing

(45:02):
to to be able to get a law degree from
Notre Dame. How do you end up working with Mike's
life when you graduated? So yeah, so go to Notre Dame.
Quite naturally, Arizona State has a strong Notre Dame uh footprint.
So I interview end up getting the job at O'Connor Kavanaugh,
which ended up getting a morphing into Greenberg Truary, but

(45:24):
at O'Connor Kavanaugh, So I worked there my first summer.
Second summer, I go back to Phoenix and work as
a firm cost Fanella Wilmer. So I had still both
both big big, big big law for people out there
who are not familiar. Those are big law firms, corporate
law firms, and a lot of top law kids are
graduates would go into So you have those options that
are out there. I got those options. I had options

(45:45):
in New York because I interviewed everywhere, you know, the
New York and l A. I had some opportunities to
go to l A and then but I made in
my mind I was going back home to be a
you know, a lawyer in Phoenix, and especially with my
you know, family's name. Like I said, not out of
financial resources, but out of access. I was gonna build
a great, great practice there. And then literally on the

(46:07):
way back to Notre Dame for my last semester, and
I was always you know, focused on having financial resources.
And my parents, you know, from the from the literally
from my accident on, I never got a dollar from
my parents. I mean, you know, his scholarships paid for college,
and and you know, I was, I was self sufficient,
you know, financially. So I would always work during that

(46:29):
month off that we would get over the Christmas holidays.
And so I worked that month off. I was going
back to Notre Dame, had the last semester to do
before I graduated, and had actually accepted a job to
go work at O'Connor Kavanaugh. So I was going back
finishing my classes and graduate and come back home and
take the bar study for the bar. And I spoke
with the individual by the name of Bill Jones, who

(46:51):
is just an incredible lawyer in Phoenix. He is firm
ironically it's called Jones, Skelton and Hockey league, and it
was his partner was in hockey league, you know. Yeah,
And so I talked to Bill Jones. He goes, Kevin,
I know you love sports, He goes, I got a
dear friend who's a lawyer in Chicago and they might slide.
And he and I worked together on you know, one

(47:12):
of the n c A investigations. You should call him
and go see him. And I know you're coming back
to Phoenix to work, but he'd be a good person,
just to know. He's a he's a really good guy
in sports, a great So I called Mike. I had
a little small Toyota Corolla, but the over a hundred
thousand miles on it. And uh, Mike said, hey, I'm
in the middle of an investigation, but I can meet

(47:32):
you for breakfast at downtown Chicago on Saturday at like
seven o'clock. So I remember getting in my because I
didn't want to be late. I remember getting in my car, uh,
because I didn't know, you know, the car would totally
make it there like four in the morning, and driving
from Southden to Chicago. I wanted to be I said,
I want to be like an hour and a half
early because I don't want to Uh, you know, miss
this meeting. There's no cell phones and all that stuff.

(47:53):
You had to be there. So I drove this album
from South Den in Chicago, meeting downtown and uh um,
and had had an early breakfast with him because he
was an early riser and just really connected. I felt
like this guy's special and really connected with him. Ironically,
the place we met is it was right near the
Palmer House, which is where the Big Tin was founded. Um,
but met with him and no sooner than I made

(48:16):
it back to South Then he had left a voicemail
on my answering machine. UM say, yeah, he'd loved her
to offer me a job, and so I called my firm.
Then I got a chance of work in sports and
they say, Kevin, no problem. Well we'll just defer your
acceptance here. So I called Mike back, accepted the job.
And then he calls me a month later and go,

(48:36):
we've got a little change. We're moving our firm from
Chicago to Overland Park, Kansas because that's where the n
c A was headquartered. Will that affect your decision? I
said no, and so we moved there. So instead of
me going to Chicago, I go to Overland Park Kansas,
and thank god that happened, because that's how I met
my wife, you know, grant Us. So that's how I
met Mike Slide, worked with him, and then he left.

(48:57):
Actually that's why it gets interesting to go to the
Great to start the Great mid West Conference at the time,
you know, if he launched it and UH offered me
to go with him, and which I didn't, and he's
and that's when he told me, you eventually will be
in college sports, you know, one day did your heart
your passion for the love of the student athletes. And
stayed in touch with him still to this day, I

(49:17):
keep in contact with his wife, Liz and UH and
his daughter Anna, and UH went to Mike's funeral. UH
and one of the most emotional days is that UH,
Liz and and Anna actually gave me one of the
kind of the boxes that he had on his desk
that he got as an award that I keep on
my desk of the Big ten office. And they gave

(49:38):
me one cigar from him. He loved cigars, and UH
and a note from them that I keep it right
behind me, you know always. So I I deeply deeply
loved Mike' slide I'm so grateful to him and for
him because as a young black student coming out of
law school, he took me everywhere with him. He took
me to come to many on attractions, hearings, he took
me on road trips to watch him, you know, interview witnesses.

(50:02):
And so for someone to do that, you know, for
me and with me, Um, I will always carry his
legacy forward. How did you meet your wife? Yeah, so
we go to Mike moves the firm. Um, I go
to UH the firm, and then and and I end
up meeting her at UH at church, which is amazing,

(50:26):
how all these things UH come come full circle. So
there was a church called St. James United Methodist Church
and the pastor was Emmanuel Cleaver, who is now, UM,
you know, a politician in Washington, d C. Emmanuel Cleaver
who has one of the n I L Bills that
he's put together with UH Anthony Gonzalez. So we were

(50:50):
both visiting the weekend met and UM and I knew
right away. I knew. I met her then and I
had to go out on the road and Mike to
do it an interview. But came back and we had
dinner together and I called my mom that night. I said,
you know, I went from someone you know, never talked
like that to say, MoMA met at dinner with some
one the nights I'm gonna marry her. My mom was
like watch, I'm like, yeah, I mean really, I just

(51:12):
this is the right person. So we met in March,
and I had a date in March, and got engaged
in October ironically at the Grotto uh and Notre Dame
we're back on campus, and then got married to following June,
June ninety two. And so I'm just grateful. Gretta is,
you know, smart, She's a brilliant woman. Um, she is
tough as as nails and steady and sturdy and has

(51:35):
done an incredible job one with with you know, just
shepharding my career and being there, but then also raising
our kids, and and just then she she's as solid
as they come. And I just, oh, I mean, I
owe really my career to her. I'm appreciative of her
each and every day, and and then she's been it's
been a's been a blessing too, for her to for

(51:56):
her to be my wife and me to be her husband,
and for her to be the parents of our h kids.
So she's uh, she's, she's, she's she's a great woman.
I look forward to the day that you can meet her.
We're talking to Big ten Commissioner Kevin Warren. Uh, this
is Winston Losses. I'm Clay Travis. All right, So you
leave the MIC's live relationship and what do you do then? So, yeah,

(52:19):
Mike to Mike leaves actually to take the job of
the great New Glass which now I worked in the
conference USA. I don't go with him. I stayed with Glazier.
And was that a tough decision with Glazier, Yeah, so's
he stayed. I keep doing the work that they're doing,
the investigations. And then all of a sudden, one of
my professors from Notre Dame, uh, professor Hair Patricial Hair,

(52:40):
calls me and says, hey, I just got promoted to
vice president student Affairs. Will you come back? I said sure.
So I went back to Notre Dame, taught a sports
law class in the law school, worked in administration an
assistant vice president student affairs for a year, and then
um and while I was there, ended up somebody introduced
me to Chris George, who was a rookie on the

(53:01):
Bears at the time, you know, Hayle had lost his
mom and just wanted some help. And so after I
left Notre Dame to go back to Kansas City to
get married to Grado, started my own you know, sports
practice and start representing you know, Chris and the end
up working with Leg Dawson and and and UH Will
Shield and even your great partner Jason whitlock Um and

(53:23):
so built a built a business and and UH representation
business and Kansas City and and then just like Bill
Jones did with with Mike's Live, I got had a
friend who connected me with Dig Vermil who had just
got hired at the Rams and ninety seven. And someone said, um,
you know, you guys would really like each other. It's
the same way that Bill Jones said with Mike's Lives.

(53:44):
So something you'd really like, Uh coach Vermil and same
type deal. Flew to St. Louis um and sat down
with Culture for mal almost very similar to the way
that Mike flid meeting went, and uh and then all
of the seven Culture Mills like, I'd love to have
you and work with me. And it was just something
about him, just like with my slide that I knew
this is a person that I would love to follow

(54:07):
when you're when you're teaching at Notre Dame. Did you
like teaching sports law at Notre Dame? What was that
experience like, because you're a young guy teaching. And by
the way, did you did you ever meet Amy Coney Barrett,
who now is on the Supreme Court and it's probably
the most famous Notre Dame law grad, I would imagine
right now in the country. She was. Yeah, so, I'm
I was a ninety grad. I think she's like, I mean,

(54:31):
quite naturally. I know because I've seen in contact with
Notre Dame. I go back on camp as every so
often to speak to law schools. I don't know why
I thought she's like a grass. She was after me,
um there and and yes she is famous and um
well everybody on campus evidently you loved her as a
professor to write like the students and they loved her.

(54:51):
People do love her. I mean they really did did
love hers. Um and um. So I just wish her
well to be on the Supreme Court. Are you talking
about the amazing achieve expands? Uh so, I'm I'm looking
looking forward to to uh having a chance to hopefully
sit down and talk with her one day, but she's

(55:12):
in a Notre Dame family. But yeah, I enjoyed teaching.
I mean, you know, teaching in my blood, like I said,
my mom being an educator, my dad being an educator.
I enjoyed. I was young, and you know a lot
of the students I was teaching that they weren't they
were some of them quite actually were older than me.
So I enjoyed it. And I think that's something later
in my life and my career. But I'll go back to,

(55:33):
you know, be an adjunct, you know, professor at some
point in time, in a couple of years from now,
because I really enjoyed it. Back to me loving to
you know, to read and to write and communicate, and
hopefully I'll have some knowledge to share with some students
here at some point in time, you know, in the
in the future. But I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed that.
We're talking to Big Tech Commissioner Vin Warren. So you

(55:54):
work at at at the RAMS, you can find a
guy named Kurt Warner who has a little bit of success.
I'm Titans fans, so so you end up beating the
Titans in that very memorable Super Bowl and you start
to work inside of an NFL franchise, what's that like
and what stick for meal? Like, yeah, it was you know,
it was interesting. And we were you know, we were

(56:15):
the losingest franchise in the nineties up until ninety seven.
I think we were tied with the Cincinnati Bengals. So
we go in there. I mean, we go five and
eleven the first year, and then we go four and twelve.
So people are looking at me like, okay, you had
a really good business and you win nine games and
two years were nine games and two years and there
you know, we all had three year contracts, So that's
not good going in the third year of the contract

(56:38):
with nine wins and two years, and I think ownership
had clearly made a plan to terminate the coach of
Mail at the end of the end of that season.
And I remember he in training camp, he showed a
clip from this movie Amistade, and uh it was like basically,
you know, if if uh, if not, now we're I mean,

(56:58):
you know, this is our year. We all of us
there are probably all of us are gonna be gone.
And things fell into place, and like I said, Kurt
was there Trent Green. That's right. That's a huge story,
right because Trent Green, the expectation was that he was
going to be great. And Dick cried, I think after
if I remember correctly, in a press conference after Trent
hurt his knee. Yeah, you're right, great memory, that's what

(57:20):
he said, we will play good football and uh um
and uh so yeah. I mean Trent where we had
signed him, I believe from Washington and because he had
worked with Mike Marts who was an offensive coordinator who
had worked at the Rams previously, who became the head coach,
and I think third preseason game against San Diego, Rodney
Harrison stumbled into Trent's knee towards a c I remember
I went down to the locker room and was there

(57:43):
with Trent in the locker room, you know, when he
was hurt. You know, Kurt comes in and and um,
we end up not signing. So many people were leaning
and that's what I really learned. You got to just
stick with what's in your spirit and hard to do
the right thing. And coach knew Kirt Wanna was a
great player. And I remember going to practices. I've seen
Kurt have a full practice and and and not one
ball hit the ground zero I mean, and so that

(58:05):
was my standard of like that's like a legitimate quarterback
right there. There was none of this throwing it over
the head and the dirt. I mean. He was so
focused and to see him, you know, elevate and he
has the same initials and I so when his when
he started his his crazy rise to to start them U.
These people would try to go through our voicemail at
the Rams Park to leave a message for him, and

(58:26):
they would end up hitting k W you know, backing
into it, especially w A, so I would get more
messages from fans. It was, you know, such a steady
I stayed in close contact with him. So yeah, Dick
was coach. Romil was special. I stay in close contact
with him. His birthday was a couple of months ago,

(58:47):
and uh I talked with he and his wife Carol regularly.
I stayed in touch with him. As soon as we
get through this pandemic, I'll go and have dinner with him.
We share the same level of wine and and he's
a father to me and I can halt with him
all the time. So he was spectacular. I learned so
many lessons from him. And then so we we just
went went forward. We had currently drafted Tory Holt, we

(59:10):
had drafted Orlando Pace two years earlier than Grant Whistram.
And then we traded from Marshall Falk and we had
great coaches. I mean, so I learned about having good
people around you, so many lessons from Kadrabille. I think
we had eight former NFL head coaches on our staff
and and just just and they built it and we
we we played with no fear and and I'm convinced

(59:32):
kadro Mill doesn't retire. At the end of the year,
we probably probably have instead of one Super Bowl ring
and one Super Bowl Trophy, I've probably have three or
four because we had great players and great system and
a great staff and and and that was that was
that was really fun. That was a really fun year.
And although I've never used the word fair or fun,
but that's one of the times I will say that
was a fun year. So you go back, you didn't

(59:54):
go to the Lions, and then you go to Greenberg
trou big international law firm, and you start working. If
I'm if I'm not mistaken for the Will family uh
in their attempt to buy the Minnesota Vikings, and that
puts you back into the scope of the NFL. What
was that relationship like and how did it grow to
the point as initially your lawyer to then going in

(01:00:17):
house and and basically moving to Minnesota and spending fifteen
years of your life there. Yeah, so, like you said,
we're leaving around. You had a great run, had a
great chance to go to the Lions. Um, you know,
we didn't have much success in two years there are
going back to Greenberg, Charlie, and back to the kind
Kavanaugh said they would defer my acceptance. Well they deferred

(01:00:38):
it for thirteen years years after you said, yeah, had
the job and in ninety and I said, remember you
guys said you would defer my accepting. They said yeah,
because the same people were there. Jeh Bourbon was there.
And uh, I said, well, I always always keep my words.
So thirteen years later, I'm ready to accept that offer.

(01:01:00):
He said, it's still here. So that's I ended up
at Greenberg, Charwick. So I go back there and and
crazy as it would be, I ended up. So I
go back to Greenberg and and pretty much uh, you know,
July of that year of uh of two thousand and
three and uh, and I'm working there and then the
next probably March or April April of two thousand and four,

(01:01:24):
I get a call one day from Denny Green and
the late great coach, and he says, hey, you know,
I hear the Vikings are for sale and love to
try to put together a group, and I'm gonna be
in town and will you will you come to a
kind of reception. There's gonna be about forty or fifty
people to get together in Phoenix and I'd love for
you to come in and ten, I said, great, So

(01:01:44):
I showed up that I went and saw the Sacramento
Kings play the Phoenix suns Um and it was you know,
that was really early though, because I saw I think
Lebron's first probably preseason game that's that same year. But
I go to this deal at the Phoenician and Phoenix
and what Coach Green failed to tell me that he
was gonna ask me to make the presentation to the

(01:02:04):
group about acquiring the NFL club. So I just I
go there with my notebook and my pen ready to
take some notes, and he says, yeah, I'm glad you
all came. Now this meeting starting at about eleven o'clock now,
because it was after the games. Glad you all came.
We wanted to get people together explore about buying the
Viking gun, and uh invited Kevin Warren, who had six

(01:02:25):
years in the NFL, to be here and kind of
walk us through the process banks coach. So I got
up and Uh. I remember telling my wife, you know, Gret,
because we went to the game together. She went home.
We didn't live far from the Phoenicia. I said, look,
if I'm not here, I know Coach Green, I don't
know these other people, but I'm not here by like
two in the morning, come look for me. So I

(01:02:46):
ended up getting home part about three because we were
there meeting for about four hours and um grat a
sound asleep and I and I said, I said to
her that, uh. Um, I said to her that that
why didn't you come and give me? Said, I knew
you fine. But so the meeting went well. Morphed in there.
One of the people who ironically was the meeting UH
in the meeting was what uh what was uh was

(01:03:09):
was was Reggie Fowler and um and so I ended
up meeting you know Reggie there. I didn't I didn't know,
I didn't know Reggie, but end up meeting there and
that's how it kind of started. But you know, when
we started talking with Reggie, he needed partners. And so
I had a dear friend, Jim Stapleton, who's still a
dear friend. He went to college in Michigan with a

(01:03:30):
guy by the name of Ray Owens who had done
some real estate work with Alan Landis. And that's why
I said, Clay, when these things and he looked back
over my life and all the different things that had
to fall into place, you know, to happen. Uh. So,
Jim had a friend in Michigan who who did some
work with Alan Landis and real estate named Ray Owens
um that said, Hey, there may be a family in

(01:03:51):
New York who also is interested in in in being
an owner in the NFL. And he said it's the
Landis family, the Mandelbald family, and the Wolf family. And
I said great, And you know, all you have to
do is tell me some one time. And I was
on a plane within probably forty eight hours going back
to see the will family, Mandebaum family, Lander's family to

(01:04:11):
present in front of them and uh, telling them about
the deal. And I remember after about a two hour
presentation to them, barely taking a breath or or drink
of water. They convened the back conference room and they
came out and said, yeah, we're in as limited partners.
And then as the deal start going back and forth,
I was flying red eye flights from from the Phoenix

(01:04:33):
to New York to meet with them, start working on
the deal. And then when Reggie didn't have the financial
wherewithal to be the general partner UM. I remember like
it was yesterday standing to my closet and Phoenix of
Ziggy's birthdache um that I that I had to call
him and say, you know, hey, we we need an
opum We're gonna need and I'm gonna need to have

(01:04:57):
h an opportunity um to uh to to become general
partner and and so he That's when we did it,
and we really had to put the pedal to the
metal and uh get the deal done. And we did
did did get it um uh closed and uh and
when it closed, I remember we had the closing had

(01:05:19):
scadd ARBs in New York. You know, yeah, I mean
you've been in these big deals and this is one
of the ones where every conference room was taken. I
mean we must have signed you know, a hundred pieces,
hundred documents. And so we finished the closing went a
couple of hours, and after we finished that, Will set
down and say, okay, what happens now, like is you
know Red McCombs and his group gonna meet us in

(01:05:40):
Minnesota and the transition I was like, the when that
wire hit Mr McCombs account today, you will you you
won't be hearing much from him. They're just to confirm
that he gets, you know, super Bowl tickets every year
going forward. No, there's not going to be anyone there.
He goes, what do you mean? I said, no, He goes, well,
what happens? I said, you guys got to go to
Minnesota meet with the staff and introduce yourselves and and

(01:06:02):
tell them what's gonna happen. And and uh He's like,
can you go with us? Team? Meet us there? And
so that's what happened. So we went. I went from
literally didn't go back to Thieds. I went straight to
Minnesota and and you know, met there. I remember actually
meeting Mike Stolack is his name from US Bank, meeting
him downtown at the hotel to sign the like the

(01:06:22):
signature cards for the bank accounts. You know, it's just
could like literally open up the accounts. And we had
to form all new ll c s and and we
started from scratch, you know, with the Metrodome UH and
the Winter Park facility and and then to be able
to look back and so proud of I worked there
fifteen years later to build a best stadium and all

(01:06:43):
the pro football and US Banks Stadium and the best
practice facility in twin cities, Authentedics Performance Center UM, and
to host the super Bowl in the cold Weather City.
To build a world class you know, franchise. And I
know eventually they'll get there, TOPHI UM, you know. Also,
but to be a to do that, put in the
work in Minnesota, to raise our kids here, for our
kids to get incredible educations h here, and just for

(01:07:07):
me to recognize dream. And I say it every time
I get a chance for a group like the Will
family and the Landis family and man the bat family,
but primarily the Will family, Mark Lenny's, bigg and John
to afford a black man like me and their forties
to turn the keys over UH to an NFL franchise.
From a business standpoint, to say you know, just go,

(01:07:30):
we trust you to be able to do. That is
I will forever ever be grateful to them and just
owe them so much of a better gratitude and and
I just appreciated the opportunity that afforded me to be
able to do. We're talking to Kevin Warren, Big Ten Commissioner.
So you're there. You have a tremendous success with the Vikings,

(01:07:50):
and then you get the opportunity to go to the
Big Ten. You've been there for a year. I want
to ask this question before I ask about the Big Ten,
and are you okay time wise? I know we're rolling
here and it's Christmas Eve, but I got I gotta
have I have a actually ironically have a hockey call
it in about fifteen minutes with the Red Barrenson. So yeah,
I'm good for another fifteen minutes. Yeah, perfect, all right.

(01:08:12):
First question, A lot of people say N, B, A
or J D. A lot of people out there listening
right now, which do you think is more valuable? How
have they intertwined together? Because obviously you are doing a
lot on both sides, both the business and the legal.
How important was it for you to have both? What
would you say to people out there considering the decision

(01:08:33):
of an NBA or a j D, this is my recommendation.
And I get that asked a lot. I tell them both. Yeah,
I could not have done my job at the Vikings
with either either or definitely if I didn't have either
one of no way, but either or uh. And I
don't think I could do this job at the Big ten.
But you know, if I just had an NBA or

(01:08:54):
just a law degree, just these jobs now are so
complex and it ranges from business is to legal to financial, um,
you know, to everything. And I tell people, if you're
gonna get one, you might as well get the other.
It's it's a fascinating idea because I wish I had
more business learning in my background. I never did it.
I've had to kind of learn it running my own

(01:09:15):
business from the seat of my pants. You know you've
done well, You've done well. But but I agree with it.
I mean, just the stuff. I mean, I just look
at the things on my desk right now, sitting on
my desk right now. It ranges from you know, television
you know issues, to financial issues, to spreadsheets you know,
to counting, uh, to finance, to sales to marketing to legal,

(01:09:37):
to litigation, to corporate to real estate. I mean all
of these different things. And so there's no way and
the reason why I did it, and my parents, you know,
I was, I was. I went to NBA school first,
and I was gonna be done. I was ready to
go work. It's early nineties. I was ready to go.
And my I remember my both mom and dad told me.
They said, you never want to be in a meeting

(01:09:58):
um down the road, Kevin. You have to rely on
an expert, you know, in either business at law. You
want to make sure you understand it. You gotta have
experts in there, but you need to make sure you
understand the language. And I said, Okay, you're right, that's it.
I'm going We're talking talking to a Big ten commissioner,
Vin Warren. Alright, so let's get to the Big Ten.
You take over. Uh was it a tough decision to

(01:10:20):
leave Minnesota and take and take the Big ten job?
Or was it an easy decision? It was easy. It
was it was time. Um, you know, spend spending fifteen
years here. Every single goal I'm a goal writer, goal setter,
you know, every single goal I had written down, when

(01:10:40):
written down, when I went to be um um um
has has uh come to fruition At the Vike tings.
It was to you know, build a new practice uh
facility and build a new stadium, hosts the Super Bowl,
build a world class organization and then win a Super Bowl.
We want to four out of eyes. I mean we

(01:11:00):
we accomplished of five. It was time. It was time
for me. I had done everything that I could do
from a career standpoint there and I think the biggest
thing back in my life. I mean my love and
and and passion for young people, UM for student athletes
is high. And I lived that I was a student athlete.
I know what college athletics did too to uh to

(01:11:23):
to my life. You know what it did and in
my life, and that the chance he gave for me.
I mean to come from a family with no money,
no resources, but to be able to go. I even
know the desire play for me to become a student athlete.
What it did. That's why I built my own pool
because I had a goal. My dad did it, my
brother did it, others did it from my neighborhood who

(01:11:44):
went and played college sports. So I had a goal
to play d Wana Athletic so that was the reason
why I built the pool to recover. Never knew I
could do it, so I knew the importance of it,
so that any time that you have a chance, I said,
to go to be able to positively influence. We had
ten thousand student athletes almost in the Big ten. So
the positive influenced ten thousand student athletes across fourteen different

(01:12:07):
schools across the eleven states. UH to be able to
do it, then that that's really the whole you know,
that was the whole essence for me. So it was
a very easy decision. So you're there for a year
and then basically less than a year and suddenly this
crazy pandemic hits. I think you took over in September
of nineteen if I'm not mistaken, and then in March

(01:12:28):
and September, you know, and so a stick went there.
In September's commissioner left, the Delaney spent the last three
months with me. I actually took over January two, so
it was like seventy days when the pandemic hit for
me actually being a commissioner. You know, you're right. So
one of the things that's interesting to me is what's
the job of a commissioner in the broad sense, is

(01:12:49):
it your job to influence the presidents and chancellors or
to execute their vision or is it a balancing act
between the two. Because the reason why I ask it is, uh,
you took a lot of bullets when the Big ten
starts to make its decisions. Much like Roger Goodell often
trots out in front of the you know, the media,

(01:13:12):
and they just use him for target practice. He's trying
to implement it seems to me very often the vision
of whatever the owners have. What exactly is that relationship
like for the Big ten, the presidents and chancellors, And
how do you see your role? Is it advocate where
you're like a lawyer, you know, for he bought there
listening like you advocate for your client, or you trying

(01:13:34):
to steer the ship? What is the role? What's the
right role for a commissioner? Yeah, I think it's a
combination of it. I mean, because like you said, you
have a delicate balance of ten thousand student athletes, you know,
and um, you know three hundred and fifty you know
what a head coaches. You have your athletic administrators, you
have your senior woman administrators, you have your faculty, athletic reps.

(01:13:56):
You have your chancers and presidents, you have your athletic directors,
you have your families. So it's this is this is
a whole amalgamation of people that come together who really
do you know, want to come and go everyone or
in the Big ten, all those groups that are listed
have the focus of making sure their sons or daughters
receive a world class education. Uh, they have positive experience,

(01:14:19):
learning experience both in the classroom and in life, and
they get a chance to compete at the highest possible level.
And then if they're good enough, either they get a
chance to go on and compete for a gold medal
in Olympics or to have a chance to play professional athletes,
I mean professional athletics. So it's a balance of all
of those different you know factors. Then you throw on
top of it the political climate because we you know,

(01:14:40):
we were we're in eleven different states, so we have,
you know, four team mayors of our cities where our
schools are located, but eleven governors that we're dealing with,
and then even all the way that's from the national
political land sting. So it's a balance. So I think
the you know, Commissioner UM, you know, is responsible for
making sure that all of these different groups are you
know heard, are are are are listened to excuse n

(01:15:05):
Clary listened to excuse me and UM and and to
make sure just but from a global standpoint, that the
whole purpose uh and the structure of the Big Ten
is one never forgotten and too really you know, empowered.
And so my focus of coming here was to make

(01:15:27):
sure that our student athletes kept in mind, you know,
first and foremost, we need to provide an environment for get,
for them to get a world class of education that
they can compete in a safe and healthy manner. But
then also that the Big ten remains the Big ten.
What are the cornerstones and why wire? Why are? Why
is the Big ten in business? And that that we
keep those but then the elevate you know, the conference

(01:15:47):
from a business standpoint, from a long term standpoint, and
and I know, you know, there were some days that
I was thinking roll, you know, coming in here and
then having a pandemic hit seventy days after I'm in
on a job that's you know, complicated, you know, even
in a normal time. But I'm almost grateful that it
happened because what it did is it helped to expedite

(01:16:09):
the importance of us communicating, working in a collaborative manner,
being focused, doing what's right, and so a lot of
these issues that were eventually going to come out. Now
I'll say this, it was interesting that they came out,
you know, all in the last ten months. But you know,
maybe it would have taken five, six, seventeen years for
them to come out. Then evctually would have come out.

(01:16:29):
But I feel now more prepared going into to be
able to deal with an image and likeness and all
the business issues and you know, dealing with our TV
and network partners because we were forced. It was almost
what I call taken like a J term class. You know,
instead of doing it, you know, over a course of
a year or semester, you do it in two or
three weeks. And the way you do it is you

(01:16:50):
have to go to class longer, you have to study,
you have to pull together, you have to be focused.
And I think this year allowed us that opportunity. So
I am courage, I'm positive, I'm excited about finishing, but
also really looking at a lot of the issues that
business and people, especially new new to each other need

(01:17:12):
to get out of the way to work through you know,
we were forced to work through them this year, and
I feel like we're strong group going forward. Be sure
to catch live editions about Kicked the coverage with Clay
Travis weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific. Do
you wish looking back now? You've got Ohio State in
the playoff? The Big ten Bowl games are out there,

(01:17:32):
There's still games to be played this year, but the
regular season is over. Do you wish now that you
could go back to July in August and start play
in September in retrospect, and obviously retrospect vision is always better.
Do you think that would have been the right decision?
And if so, could you have convinced the presidents and

(01:17:55):
chancellors to make that choice? How aggressively is it you
or job to to to try to make that case?
Does that make sense? Oh? Yeah, know, that makes sense.
That's a great question, I believe, and I still feel
strongly about it, you know today, Um is the fact
that the thing I'm most proud of is that we

(01:18:16):
followed the medical advice of our medical personnel, and and
and and that's what I'm I'm I'm probably most proud
of trust me play. As you said, it was not easy.
It wasn't easy on us as a conference. It wasn't
easy on me personally. But this has never been about me.
So all these jobs, this is not about me. This

(01:18:36):
is about the Big Ten, This is about our student athletes,
is about our coaches. Uh, this is about our brand.
And so that's why I was okay to to deal
with it one all those nights and spending the hospital
and traction, all those nights spending the body cast. I'm
comfortable with being alone. Um, I'm you know, mentally tough,
I'm physically tough. I'm comfortable with not being popular. I

(01:18:57):
was not a popular kid when I went back to
school after my accent. My nickname even became not It
went from being at first making fun of me to endearing.
But if you talked to my high school teammates, my
nickname was Fatty. Now you know that's me. You know,
as the kids are brutal, but that's what it was. Weight.
After you were in, you were in the body has

(01:19:19):
Now when I when I man, I went and when
I the day I got hit by a car, I
was my body fat was you know, probably as low
as it could be for a ten year old kid,
and then when I came out, it was as high
as it could be. And so that was my nickname
all the way until the time I went to college.
Was was Fatty, and that's always been there. So I'm
accustomed to to, you know, dealing with you know, those
kind of issues. So I wouldn't change anything. Was it rough, Yes,

(01:19:43):
it was rough, But the thing that gave me solace
and strength was the fact we made the right decision.
Why because we did it for the health and safety
of our student athletes, and I was concerned about mile kardiitis.
I was concerned about making sure we did everything, you know,
for the health and safety the at our student athletes.
Number One. I don't expect for it to make sense

(01:20:03):
to everyone, you know, this soon. There's still a lot
of like kind of raw emotions. But I'm confident, whether
it's a year from now, three, five, seven, ten, that
when we turn around look back, people will say, you
know what, the pig didn't did the right thing in
a pandemic. We can't forget we were playing sports in
a global pandemic. Our focus always we we took the
hard road The easy road would have been for us

(01:20:25):
just to go and play and kind of cross our
fingers and totes and hopes it works out. But we
took the hard road of trying to put in our
daily testing in uh, to keep our student athletes healthy
and safe. That is my number one priority in the story.
They need to get a world class education. They need
to be healthy and safe, and they need to be
able to participate at a high level everything else, you know,

(01:20:45):
a secondary um and and and I'm just you know,
uh proud that our medical uh you know, doctors and
trainers really designed the program. Is it perfect? No, nothing
about is perfect. If anything, this is the year of
being fluid. But but I'm but I'm confident that we
made the right decision because while we've put the health

(01:21:06):
and safety of our student athlete at the top of
our this even if you're tough, it's still had to
be tough to be the guy taken all of the
slings and arrows. Right, nobody knows who the president. Uh,
most people out there don't know who the president of
insert school is, right unless you're a student on campus
or a professor. Everybody knew Kevin Warren fire, Kevin Warren,

(01:21:30):
you're not. I don't even know if you ever just
got on Twitter and typed in your name to see
what people were saying about you. But even if you
say you're tough and I'm tough, you're tough anybody who
you talked about earlier. In order to make it to
the top of any kind of flagpole, you gotta be
tough and people are going to take shots at you.
That had to be tougher than anything you've ever gone

(01:21:50):
through in your career, though, right, I agree, Yeah, I agree,
and that you know what it is. And I interesting,
I always try to I try to keep things real
simple and it's a lot of love my wife's among
other things. But she she that's how she operates. And
really I called kind of sound bites. And I always
try to have one prayer going into every New Year.
I'll do it this year, so over the next week

(01:22:12):
I'll come up with like one, folks. And my focal
point last year for going into was to basically for
me to although my faith has always been strong, but
for me to even the last part of any journey
is the most difficult part. I said, I wanted to
my faith to even go stronger so I my prayer
on New Year's Eve last year was God, even though

(01:22:34):
my faith is a strong and I don't know if
he can grow stronger, but if they can, please make
it happen. And I didn't know it was gonna be
what I went through last year. But as I look back,
the reason, like the reason why I'm okay with what happened,
is all at all aside from work. It was tough.
You're right, it was tough, but my faith grew even
stronger even when I didn't think it could, it did.

(01:22:56):
And so when I asked myself was it worth it?
Absolute it was worth it because I tried to always
back to my accent, look at everything kind of from
a spiritual landscape, and it was, and it was, you know,
it was worth it. And uh, it's not for the
faint of heart. It's not something I can say I
want to go through. But we did, you know, we survived.

(01:23:17):
We actually did better to survive. We actually were able
to thrive. And we have four teams and great goals.
Um we have the Ohio State University and the College
Football Playoff. We've we've forted some strong relationship, our relationship
with our network partners, at Fox and ESPN, ABC and
CBS is strong um and uh, and We've all learned

(01:23:39):
and and and grown. And I'm looking you know, forward
to continually building this relationship with our chanson and presidents
are athletic directors, are coaches, but most of all, I'm
looking forward to to watching our our student athletes and
their families grow and um, and for us to continually
win championships in the Big Ten and and continually be
the Big Ten. And so I'm just you know, even

(01:23:59):
this really sho show, I'm grateful that that that we're
able to spend the time that we have together, and
I'm grateful for everything that you do. So I just
have a hearty gratitude as we go into this holiday season,
and I just hope you know, everyone had Aprihanka and
and Merry Christmas and and and really that we go
into one as stronger together as a country. One couple

(01:24:20):
of questions here to finish up with. You were talking
to Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren. Your son plays at
Mississippi State. I think he still had a couple of
years left. Yeah, from your perspective. I just mentioned earlier
in the conversation I've got three kids. You've got to
how difficult was it to be the Big Ten commissioner
with your team not your team's not scheduled to be

(01:24:41):
playing and your son is going to be playing at
Mississippi State. You talked about medical professionals and everything else,
but he's grown. How do you balance the role of
a parent with a son in a different conference when
you are the commissioner of the Big Ten? To me,
that's one of the most challenging aspects, probably both professionally
and personally for you. How did you handle that? You know, Clay,

(01:25:05):
You're exactly right, that was you know, I'm one of
those folks I can I can, I can handle it,
and I'm a grown man. But you know, the people
I feel the most for my wife, grat and my
kids because they didn't sign up for it, and so
I felt I felt primarily you know, uh mad for powers.
But it allowed him to grow and so he did
what he was supposed to do. Is you know, he

(01:25:26):
went to Mississippi State. He had three head coaches in
three years, he got his degree in three and a
half years. Um, you know, he was he was very
focused and that he worked hard and so he graduated
though about a month ago, got his degree, you know early,
and he still has two years of eligibility remaining, so
he knowned it into the transfer port portal. He has

(01:25:46):
some opportunities now that he's evaluating, and I'm sure he'll
make a decision here in the next couple of days
to decide where he's gonna go and play his last
two years and he can work on his master. So
he's he's uh, he's done. You know, he's done. Well.
I'm proud of him. He's he's he's tough as um
also mentally tough, and he's continually grown. And I think
he realizes now he's said to me before, you know,

(01:26:09):
he realizes if I don't use the word fair, because
this life is not fair, and if you're looking for fairness,
you're you're probably gonna be frustrated. So I'm grateful for him.
And our daughter Perry just got admitted to Northwestern School
that she'll be starting her master her masters in the
in the fall and business communications. So as you know,
Clay with three sons, you know, anytime you can wake
up in the morning and say your prayers and you

(01:26:31):
know that your wife is healthy and your kids are healthy,
then then you know you've got a chance for a
great day. So I'm again, I just have a hearted
gratitude and it starts with my family and we've had
we've had a great run together, and I hope that
we can I hope we can live together. Did you
talk to for it to see our kids? Did you
talk to him about that decision he was going to
play at Mississippi State or because I'll tell you this,

(01:26:54):
if I tell my kids that I suggest something, by
the time, they're already don't don't want to do whatever
dad says. Right, I mean, I think there's a lot
of kids that got of parents out there listening. Who
know what I'm saying. My oldest or twelve and ten,
they're not yet eighteen, but once they get to be eighteen,
Like if you said, hey, son, I don't think it's
safe enough for you to be playing football, and oh,
by the way, we're not playing in the Big ten,

(01:27:15):
he just might turn to you and say, peace out, Dad,
I'm I'm playing right, Like I mean, right, I mean,
did you ever have that conversation with him as a parent? Yeah,
I did, We did, Gret and I had it with
him and will we raise our kids similar to it
as gret and I were raised. Our parents treated us
like adults, you know, really are to make decisions and
make decisions live with the consequences. So all I did

(01:27:36):
is I laid out to him here, the here, the
um you know, here the medical concerns that I have
as a parent, you know, as a father, as a
commissioner for all of our student Atala's. But I'm talking
with you, but this year, you know, you're you're you're
an adult and uh um, and I know you'll do
you know, do what's right and and and so that's
why he made the decision to to be able to

(01:27:58):
go forward. And he understood all the ramma vacations. And
I've just found in life is that the more you
can allow people chance to own their you know, decisions,
the better officer they you know, they you know they
can be. Um. And so he, you know, he was
comfortable and playing and doing what he is, just like
when he graduated and wanted to enter in to the
transfer for he has two years left to play, and

(01:28:19):
so he'll make his decision where he goes to school.
I'm just here as a you know, I always take
my commissioner ad off at home because I'm just you know,
dead and husband, and I'll give them, you know, advice
on things that he comes to me, but I don't
I won't get involved in any recruiting or anything of
that nature. So wherever he decides to go, I'll support
him and um and be there for him like always

(01:28:41):
and just you know, just tell him just own it,
you know, own the decision and kind of live with
the consequences. What was it like to be called by
the White House in the middle of all of this process?
And on top of that, you don't control headlines that
are written. But one headline that got a ton of attention.
I'm looking at it right now from Yahoo. It said,
can the Big ten swing the next presidential election? It's

(01:29:04):
an interview with you from June, which sets the perception
out there that your decision was political in nature as
opposed to medical in nature. I don't know that you've
gotten a chance to really talk about that very much.
But what was that experience like, interacting with the White
House with the President, and what was the experience like
as this being seen as a political situation for you? Yeah?

(01:29:29):
That was you know, that was I was Um, that
was that was demanding for me to deal with because again,
people who know me, you know, I believe so much
in this country. I believe in our political process. I vote.
I'm passionate about it. You know that it was hard
for especially black people to have a chance to vote.
So I don't take that lightly, but I am you know,

(01:29:52):
when we set up our our voter registration initiative at
the Big Ten. If I said it once, I've said
it a hundred times. It's nonpartisan. And I really mean
that because I you know, I vote, you know, I
vote for candidates and and I voted, you know, I
vote for different people from different political back you voted
for Democrats and Republicans in your life as a person. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely,

(01:30:15):
So I'm not just one of these people that goes
in the booth and puts a blindfold on and you know,
swipes either on one side or the other. And that's
not I'm I'm hopefully you know, I'm very thoughtful and
so I study. I mean I studied the candidates and
then go into in their background, even for local politics,
I go into it. And uh so that that part,
like you said, not writing the headlines and I think

(01:30:35):
that's where a lot of this started. Um, you know
from the just seeing kind of that I was trying
to swing in an election is just the opposite. But
you know, any time, I always you know, I grew
up to the date that my parents died, and still
my in laws are both living in their mid eighties,
Heyward and had the spears. They're my parents, gret us

(01:30:55):
greatest parents, were like parents to me. Still to this day,
I still they'll dry them as yes, ma'mman, yes sir,
to this day, to the day my parents died, it
was yes, ma'ammy, yes sir. That's I was raised. And
so I respect the office of of the president. I mean,
that's the president of the United States of America. And
regardless of what people in the political views they have

(01:31:17):
right longer and different, I respect that office and I
respect the person in the office. And so when the
White House called, you know, I took it as I
think everything is face value, that that that they were
willing to help the president Trump was was was willing
to help an offer from a medical standpoint, and uh
and and I think that many people. I got many

(01:31:38):
calls from people local, nationally and around the world who
offered to help. So, UM, I say that from a
from a respect standpoint, and I'm grateful that we were
able to to work through, you know, our issues and
and then put a program in place that we thought
this is in the best seat of our of our
student athletes. And and but I'll say this class, you

(01:31:59):
said only twenty will be a year that that I
will probably be telling, um, you know my grandkids about
that once we have them for for many years in
the future. Last question for you, and it's probably a
tough one, but I appreciate all your time, and I
know how busy you are. Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren, Um,
there's a perception out there that the Big Ten has
been bending over backwards for Ohio State. Uh, you know,

(01:32:22):
changing the rules to allow them into the Big Ten
title game, the medical recommendations as it pertains to to
to positive tests in quarantining being adjusted. I think after
the first of the year, how would you respond to
critics out there who say that the Big Ten is
bending over backwards for Ohio State compared to other schools. Yeah,

(01:32:43):
I mean, I think the response is is, you know,
my focus is to make sure I do everything I
can to keep the Big ten conference. All of our
fourteen schools um to to have the equality, to fairness
and to to to to to protect the conference. So
you know, when we make changes on rules or whatever,
we're not singling out you know a school in a

(01:33:04):
good way or in a bad way. Is that we're
doing what we feel is in the best interesting of
the conference. And I've said it, you know this year
is one thing I've learned is alignment is critical. And
then secondly, you've got to remain nimble and fluid. We
we have to, I mean, things change, we get more information,
you know, every single day. This has been a complicated,

(01:33:26):
you know situation. And so when I sit here, I
just you know, we feel that what we feel is
in the best interests of all of our schools and
and all of our student athletes. And you know, we
have to be mindful. It's just like with the with
the with the UH, with the with the fact of
of making the adjustment from twenty one days and seventeen
days is you know, that's we follow a lot of

(01:33:49):
the CDC requirements. So this is not you know, me
or us sitting here and saying, okay, what can we
do the you know, to Tike, this is just the opposite.
We have to do what's best to afford our student
athletes a chance to play. This will be the last
year that a lot of our student athletes can have
a chance to play. And if there's something and again
it goes back, if it fits into the health and
safety and they're still healthy and safe, then we have

(01:34:10):
to explore what we can do and to remain fluid
and remain nimble, but also just to keep our integrity
as a conference. And and that's what we'll continue to do.
Kevin Warren, I appreciate the time, look forward to chatting
and down again sometime down the line. I think people
will enjoy your story and I hope you and your
family have a good Christmas. ME to Clay, thank you

(01:34:33):
for everything. Appreciate what you're stand, uh how how you
stand tall and um and I just appreciate. I love,
I love your work, and just thank you for for
who you are and what you do. And and have
a very merry Christmas, happy New Year, the healthy and
stakes and I just continually pray God's blessings over you

(01:34:54):
and your family. So thank you for your time and
I'm here have a great day. I appreciate it. That's
Commissioner Kevin Warren. I'm Clay Travis. This is Wins and Losses.
Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Have a
great New Year and a great Christmas and Holidays for
everybody out there as well.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Clay talks with BIG10 Commissioner Kevin Warren