Clay talks with Tomi Lahren

This week on Wins & Losses, Clay Travis is joined by political commentator Tomi Lahren. Clay and Tomi talk about her upbringing in South Dakota, and her early interest in the world of politics. The two talk about her decision to go from growing up in South Dakota, to going to college in Las Vegas. Tomi details her first job in the world of media fresh out of college, and the different steps she has taken from there to get to where she is today. Finally, the two talk about her recent move from California to the city of Nashville, where Clay has called home for much of his life as well. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks
with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome in Wins and Losses podcast.
Appreciate all of you listening to us. The most recent

(00:23):
Wins and Losses podcast that just went up a few
days ago, Bob Costas. If you've been in a long
time sports fan, you can check it out. I think
you will enjoy that examination of sports broadcasting and more.
And now we are embarking on the thirty six, I
believe is the number Wins and Losses podcast, and we
are joined now by Tommy Laren and I'm hoping that
I don't screw up anything when it comes to the

(00:45):
pronunciation of her name, because I know it has been
a ongoing battle for you in the world of of
rap songs, if nothing else. And we'll get to that
maybe in a little bit. But you now live in Nashville, Tommy,
and I'm curious how have you found Nashville to be
as a city to live in. Obviously, right now we're
in the grips of ridiculousness surrounding the pandemic, and that's

(01:07):
kind of the case anywhere in the country. But what
have you found it to be like in Nashville? Do
you like it? I love Nashville, but I also fled
from Los Angeles, so I do feel like somewhat of
a refugee here in the South. I got away from California.
I actually moved right at the beginning of April, so
in the height of the pandemic, I was smart enough

(01:28):
to get the heck out of California. I love Nashville.
It is a blue city, as you and I both know,
and I came in here guns blazing, and I don't
think people on the left love it so much. But
I'm so critical of the mayor. But I tell them,
if I've lived here for one day, I've lived here
for a year or five years, I'm always going to
hold my elected leaders accountable. And we should all be
doing that, all right. So you are so right off

(01:51):
the top of you and I know each other. We've
got to know each other as you've moved to Nashville.
What I admire in general is fearlessness, and you are
incredibly fearless, especially at such a young age. So I
want to dive into how you got to the place
where you are now, which is an influential I think
it's fair to say firebrand in the world of the

(02:15):
social media universe, and the fact that you can take
the heat and you seem to enjoy the heat. But
before we get to all that, I don't feel like
your background is really that well known, and I'm kind
of fascinated by it. So let's let's start. You're you're
still young, but you're obviously very influential. But you were
born and raised I believe I've got this right in

(02:35):
South Dakota. Correct, Yes, so in the middle America, where
a forgotten Americans are that a lot of times we
referred to as a flyover state, middle class family only child,
rabid city South Dakota. A lot of people probably wouldn't
even know of it at all if it weren't for
Mount Rushmore and the President addressing the nation on fourth

(02:57):
of July from Mount Rushmore. But yes, that is where
I'm from, and I've lived about everywhere since then. All right,
so let's go back to you growing up in South Dakota. Well,
I have never been to South Dakota. I bet most
of our listeners have not been either. What is it
like to grow up in South Dakota. Well, South Dakota,
a lot of people don't know how beautiful it is.

(03:18):
And if my dad always says, we don't really need
them to know how beautiful it is, because then we
get an influx of liberals coming to bring our liberal
policies to South Dakota, like they've done in Wyoming, in
Montana and a lot of other are great in Midwestern states,
but being in South Dakota, honestly, it's just a lot
of hard working people, a lot of people of farming, ranching,

(03:39):
blue collar people who don't really want anything from anybody
but just want to be left to hell alone. That's
what I grew up with. That's the family I was
raised in, and that has a lot to do with
what I do. Now. What was it so you go
to high school? What kind of high school do you
go to? And were you political? Was there a moment
in time an election that you remember thinking, oh, this

(04:01):
really piqued my interest. How would you assess your interest
in political issues and where it came from? Well, I
was in fourth grade when September eleventh happened, and that
was obviously a big moment, and I remember watching the news.
I don't think a lot of kids my age were
really watching the news daily in fourth grade, but I've
always done it. Not just on September eleventh, but I

(04:23):
would do it all the time. I watched the news
every single night. It was important to me. And I've
always been political because I always felt like the news
got it wrong. I always felt like watching the mainstream media.
My my family would always watch ABC News. I feel
like they got a lot wrong about half this country,
and they just kind of forgot about half this country.
They catered to the coast, maybe Chicago, but everybody in

(04:45):
the middle. They got everything wrong when it came to agriculture,
when it came to gun rights, when it just came
to average people in the Midwest. I felt like they
just kind of glossed over us. So that always made
me political. And even in South Dakota, which is it
can servative red state and god willing it will always
be a conservative red state, I still went to public school.

(05:05):
I still had teachers that were liberal. I still had
teachers that, believe it or not, would make white students
feel like we had something to apologize for. I mean,
all those things that kids are going through now, I
still went through even being in South Dakota. So I'm
a pot back. I don't know why that's just been
ingrained in me, but I've always thought back. So you

(05:26):
went K through twelve to public school in South Dakota, Yes, sir,
I did all right. So in South Dakota, did you
grow up and again, like, were you on land? Were
you out on your own? Were you in a neighborhood
with homes close by? And were your parents particularly political?
So I grew up out of town, twelve miles out

(05:46):
of town, and suppose, and quite honestly, all my friends
lived in town and I lived out in the country.
So you learned to be around adults, and you learned
to entertain yourself. I found news and politics very interesting.
But yeah, I kind of grew up out of town
and that probably has a lot to do with it.
I had to find other ways to entertain myself. I

(06:07):
would actually watch the View anytime I had a chance.
Interesting how that worked out, But I think I just
started having opinions very early because of what I watched
on TV. Did you want brothers and sisters when you
were growing up? Absolutely not, so you you were you
loved being an only child. Yes, people asked me all

(06:29):
the time if I would like to have a brother
or sister. I tried that one time I had a
foreign exchange student. Didn't go well. I really loved just
being an only child. So where was the foreign exchange
student from in Spain? And uh, you know, great girl,
But when you're used to have in your own space,
having somebody live in your house for a year and

(06:50):
call your parents mom and dad, I just really wasn't
my thing. But I learned a lot from that experience,
that's for sure. So all right, Like when you were
in school, Um, you said you went K through twelve?
Public school? Were you political? And high school? Like, if
people were in your high school graduating class, how big
was it? Is it like a big school, small school?

(07:10):
How many people would have graduated with you? I think
that class is almost four hundreds, so it would be
we only have really two major high schools. And I
was always political. I was a student council, school board
of it. So they would not be surprised at all
by by the fact that you are in the political
arena right now. They would have totally seen this coming.

(07:31):
Oh yeah, I think I was voted most likely to
be president. Now, I really have no desire to be president.
But I've always been this way. I've always been political.
It's not something that I stumbled upon. I know that
there are a lot of conservatives right now, especially young conservatives,
who started out liberal and then they came to be conservative.
That was never me. I've always been read. I remember
having a McCain Palin sticker on my car in high school. Yes,

(07:56):
I did like John mcaine at one point he was
better than the alternative may and uh, I would argue
with people about it. I really have never cared. I've
always been someone that's going to stand up for my
belief So you graduate from high school and you make
the decision to go all the way to U and
l V for college. How and why did you make
that decision. I'm kind of an unconventional type of person,

(08:19):
and I thought, what is the most unconventional place I
can go from South Dakota? Las Vegas? Was it? I mean,
you've been to Las Vegas before. I had a couple
of times, because when you live in South Dakota, there's
not a whole lot of places you can get too quickly.
But Vegas is one of those places. And it's a
two hour flight, like a cheap flight, So I thought,
this is good. I can be two hours from home,

(08:41):
but I want to go somewhere where people are way
different than I am, that come from all different backgrounds.
As much as people might not believe it, I do
appreciate diversity and I like to be around it because
I learned from it. So I thought, Hey, where is
the weirdest place I can go and go to college?
In Las Vegas? Was it? So you go to Las Vegas.

(09:02):
Did you have an idea when you went to Las
Vegas that you were going to work in media or
how did that happen? Yeah? I was a journalism student
in political science and I always knew I wanted to
do that. I'm one of those kids that shot in
their mind, I'm going to be a TV post on
conservative news, and that's what I want to do. And

(09:23):
that's been my laser focus for a very long time.
So I was ready to do that. And I learned
a lot in Las Vegas. I mean, there's a lot
of places you can learn things, but maybe the weirdest
is Las Vegas. And you learn to get your common
sense in your street skills pretty fast. So when you're
in Las Vegas, do you have a job while you're
working there, while you're in school? What's your day to

(09:45):
day existence? And and did you guys and I don't
know the answer to this. What is the average un
l V kid like? I mean, you guys are right
there on the strip. Is Vegas a seductive place to
go spend time in casinos and around the club scene?
What's the average student life like at U and l V.
So a lot of my friends did work in the

(10:05):
casinos or at the pool. I mean in Las Vegas,
it was esteemed to be like a cabanah host or
a bottle girl. Yeah, oh, you could make a lot
of money, but it was almost that was on this
more important. In fact, then you could say that you were,
you know, going to be a doctor or a lawyer,
but if you were a cabanah host at the win,

(10:26):
that was seen as a much higher prize. And that's
what Vegas was like. I had friends that worked from
tenant night until five in the morning and really didn't
go to class, and but they didn't feel like they
had to because they were making a ton of money
on this trip. I really didn't have that luxury. I
didn't turn twenty one until my senior year. So I
worked in retail, and I didn't really have the luxury

(10:47):
of going out and partying because I had to pay rent.
That was that was my life. I went to school,
I worked, then I got off work and I did
school work, and then I got up, went to school
and then went to work. But where did you work
in retail? I worked at Express, the clothing store, So
you were while you were at U n l V.
You worked in Express, and you're making what like seven

(11:08):
or eight dollars an hour. I don't even think it
was that. Yeah, it was something around that. It was.
It was a minimum wage. Um. And I will tell anybody,
if you want a humbling experience and you want to
build character, work retail, and even better, work retail in
Las Vegas with her. People aren't that nice, and people
quite frankly, don't really care about you. I remember working

(11:30):
at Express and people walking in the door and me
greeting them and then just looking at me like I
had three eyes. Like it was they didn't understand why
I would even say hello and smile. And that was
so different from the way I grew up in South Dakota.
But it taught me a lot. It's interesting. When I
was in college at at gw UP in d C,
I worked in the Abercrombie and Fitch, which is a

(11:50):
ridiculous job to have, but I worked there in Pentagon
City Mall. I would take the subway from gw to
the Pentagon City Mall in Northern Virginia. And what was
interesting about while I worked there was they were doing
the Monica Lewinsky investigation. Like the Pentagon City Mall for
people out there who are not familiar with it is
a big and I'm assuming it's still a popular mall

(12:12):
in the DC area. But also it's where Marv Albert
allegedly there's a rich Carlton there. It's where Marv Albert,
the legendary NBA announcer, allegedly put on I don't think
it's alleged. I think he admitted it. He liked to
wear women's underwear and bite women. That happened at the
That was his big thing. Uh. And he's still got
to come back and call NBA games, which is one
of the all time great unbelievable comebacks in the history

(12:34):
of sports. Like everybody just forgets that Marv Albert would
put on women's underwear and bite women, and that was
like his thing. And then it's also where they confronted
Monica Lewinsky to begin the Clinton scandals. So I remember
reading all about that. The restaurant, if I remember correctly,
where they took her to try to offer her, uh
the ability to to testify against Bill Clinton was I

(12:57):
believe visible from where I worked at that Abercrombie and Fitch.
So this was a lustroous location, but it is at
the same time, I also was interning on Capitol Hill
and to your point, being at the very bottom of
the rung, as it pertains to very hierarchical cities like
I would say Vegas and DC are both that way,

(13:17):
where you know, it's a very top down if you're
wealthy and you're fortunate, and you have position of power,
you're in a different esteem and you're you have different
different levels of of a claim. I would say more
so than in most cities. It was definitely a place
where you got used to the fact that that you
could be forgotten for lack of any other word. And
I made I remember it was the most money i'd

(13:38):
made at the time. I was making seven dollars an
hour working in the Abercrombie and Fitch back then, which
seemed like a lot because I was making five to
work back home in Nashville. All Right, so you got
the job at Express, you're majoring in journalism. What didn't?
When did you start to realize? Because what I like
to tell people is television is a skill. Video is

(13:58):
a skill. You have to develop a skill to do
it well. You have the ability to do it well.
Was that something that was innate in some level? Or
did you find that there were people you could emulate
who did it well? How did you become good at
television and it conveying your opinions on video? I really

(14:19):
learned how to write well in school. But talking to
a camera in a very matter of fact way, I
think I started doing that too, just like a cam
quarter when I lived maybe five, six, seven, eight nine
years old. I remember my cousin and I would host
cooking shows just to a camera with plato and the
host shows. That's what I just I've always loved to do.

(14:41):
I've always loved to talk to a camera. And when
you're an only child and you live kind of far
out of town, you learned to talk to yourself, and
you learned to talk to the mirror a lot and
have an opinion. And it really is where I got
this from, and I actually prided myself. I think you
and I are similar in this um. We speak regular
and to where I grew up. So I don't try

(15:02):
to talk over people's heads. I've heard to talk like
people talk, sometimes to the dismay of a lot of
people in media, but I will swear I won't use
correct English. Sometimes not, but I don't know what it is.
But I like to talk to regular because I think
it's more relatable. And I've just always been that way.
So I can be like a trained journalist and know
how to write and know how to do TV in
a news way, but that's never really what I wanted

(15:24):
to do. I always just wanted to kind of be me.
So it's interesting. I want to unpack a little bit
of what you said there for people out there who
are listening. My goal early on, I decided that I
wanted my voice to sound the same whether you were
reading a written article that I did, whether you were
listening to me on radio, whether you're listening to me
on this podcast, and for that to be a voice

(15:44):
that was relatable to a large audience and almost like
I've always admired, and this certainly came from from law school,
the ability of a great attorney to break down for
a jury a really complex subject but in a way
that everybody can understand, whether you're a janitor or a neurosurgeon.
There's a depth of knowledge there. And I think one

(16:05):
way to develop depth of knowledge is by doing your
own writing. And so you write your own takes. There
are people out there, I'm sure who you see all
the time, who criticized you and say, oh, she's just
reading glass, She's just reading what somebody else is telling
her to say, she's a performance artist. But you are
coming up with all of your own takes and writing

(16:28):
them daily, which takes a lot of discipline. When did
that start? When did you start to develop that discipline
of writing your own takes and then recording them. Well,
I've always done it. I've always been a writer. I've
always enjoyed writing. But for me, nobody can really speak
like I speak, and so if somebody put something in
a teleprons that I have not written, I don't do

(16:50):
well with it because it's not in my voice. And
you and I are very similar in that. What you
said is I really do write like I speak, So
I were the way that I write on it than
that telepromter is the way that I'm going to say it.
And it's just my own style. And I write my
fun at that every single day. And I like to
be sassy and sarcastic, and sometimes I sit here in

(17:10):
my home in Nashville, Tennessee and just laugh at myself
for the funny joke I made about Hillary Clinton or
Joe Biden. And I love to do that. I love
to poke fun and I love to write in a
way that's serious but also kmmo sarcastic, and I love
the instant gratification of being able to put that out
there and watch people watch it and see the views.
That's what Greco came to me. What was the first

(17:33):
thing you did? Was it at U n l V
that you remember got some attention in the opinion space?
Do you remember the very first thing that that maybe
cut through the audience and started to get attention. Well,
my first job was when I was twenty one years old.
I worked at One American News and people really weren't
familiar with one American News. Now they are because the

(17:54):
President has kind of given them a shout out. So
how did you get that gig show? How did you
get that gig? Old and asked for an internship. I
was faced to get an internship at the Blaze, and
then I didn't work out. So I started calling conservative
news outlets and I found one American News, and I
just called and asked for an internship, and they said,
we don't give internships, but you can come in and talk,

(18:15):
and I said sure, And I know the poll a
few times before I finally got to talk to the
right person, but I was persistent and I just wanted
a shot. And for a lot of people, they don't
get the internship they want, or they don't get the
job that they want, and they boozoo and cry in
the corner until sorry for themselves or moved back in
with mom and dad. I was never going to do
that because that really wasn't an option. I'm not going
back to South Dakota, so I'm gonna find somewhere to

(18:36):
go when I graduate. And I found One American News,
which is quirky and cookie and a very interesting place
to work. But I was twenty one years old, and
he said, I'm gonna give you your own show, so
make sure you go write it and you're not really
going to have a producer, but just um do what
you will with it. So that with my marching orders,

(18:57):
that is pretty insane, all right, So one years old?
Who is the person who makes the decision that you
can work at O way in? And what did that
first show look like? It was the owner of One
American News uh Mr H as we call him, or
Robert Herring, a really nice older man who sometimes wasn't nice,

(19:18):
but he gave me a shot. He saw something in
me that I guess nobody else would have really seen
that twenty one years old, not many people would be
given their own show. But I cracked a couple of
bamba jokes with him, and he thought I was articulate
and we had a great conversation, and I think he
just kind of thought I could do it, So I will,
And he gave me the opportunity to do that show

(19:38):
and it was called on Point with Tommy Laren and
we did it, and I had to just search my
own guests. I would find him on Twitter, asked him
to come on, and I always did a segment at
the end of the show called final Thoughts, and sometimes
we would take those final thoughts and we put them
up on YouTube or Facebook. And that's kind of what
I'm known for now. So when did you So, when

(20:00):
did you do your very first show for One American News?
Oh a in boy, it was right before my twenty
second birthday. Um, yeah, I was August of I guess
that would have been uh. And then when I really
went viral though, is I did Final Foss after the attack,

(20:22):
the terrorist attack in Chattanooga and Obama's leadership. I had
my boyfriend at the time was a Navy seal and
he was overseas and I remember just being so angry
and so upset at the failed leadership of Barack Obama
and the danger he was putting our troops in by
tying their hands. And I just went off. And that

(20:44):
was my first viral moment, when everything kind of clipped
and people knew who I was and started hating me
at the same time. So what is that like? Because
you're young, I mean, and and so you're twenty one,
about twenty two, you start doing this video in August
of team And what I always say is there's lots
of people who say they want to be in media,

(21:05):
but in social media in particular, that comes with a
degree of hate and sometimes love that most people frankly
can't manage, right, And so your comments, my comments anybody
in media who is particularly opinionated. I always say, it's
a little bit like taking a small dose of poison

(21:26):
every day and you just develop a tolerance for it
that would kill your average person, right, Because every now
and then somebody comes into the arena and they say
they want to be, you know, in the same business,
and then they look at their mentions after they say
something opinionated and they just immediately retreat and they don't
have any interest for it. What was it like for you,
Because one of the things that's fascinating is you manage

(21:47):
your own social media accounts, your own Instagram accounts, your
own Twitter accounts, your Facebook accounts, everything else. How did
you get used to handling the degree of vitriol that
could come at you on social media. I think it
may have bothered me for a couple of days, but
quite frankly, I was much more interested in the comments

(22:10):
that I got from people in the military, in law enforcement,
from you know, that middle American silent majority that I
grew up in and saying thank you for saying what
we wanted to say. I pay far more attention to
that than I do the haters in the backlash. And
I know a lot of people say that they don't
care what people think. I promise you play, I don't
care whether these people think. I really don't when they

(22:32):
when they say awful things about me, it's like, well,
I must have struck a nerve. And at the end
of the day, in my business, that's what I'm trying
to do. I'm not trying to intentionally be a shock jock.
I mean everything that I say, but if someone doesn't
like it, listen, I do a political commentary for a living.
If you like everything that I'm saying, there's a problem.
So it's never really bothered me. I have a rhino

(22:54):
sick skin, and at this point it's so conditionally I
know you're used to this as well, that I just
don't care anymore. Be sure to catch live editions of
Out Kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at
six am Eastern three am Pacific. So this is fascinating
to me because my wife says that's my superpower, and
it doesn't seem to me like a lot of people

(23:15):
claim that they don't care, but I I just really
don't care, you know, And I don't really understand why
that is. And we're talking this is Wins and Losses,
and we're talking with Tommy Laurin. Tommy like, why do
you think we have that? Right? Like, is there something
wrong with us? Because I and I think it's a
positive for what we do in the universe in which

(23:35):
we're in. And I think being opinionated and being willing
to say exactly what you think and being fearless regardless
of what the motivation behind it is politically or or
or or you know, basically any opinion base. Have you
really set down? Because every now and then I'll get
asked that and I'll sit down and I'll try to
deconstruct it. But it's not something that I have created.

(23:57):
It's just the way I think that I've always kind
of ben And the answer that I give is, I
think going away to college on the East Coast for
me was big because there were so many total assholes
on the East Coast and I grew up in the
South and everybody was pretty nice, you know, that was
something that you kind of got used to. You live
in Nashville now. As a general rule, I think the
city of Nashville is filled with a lot of friendly people.

(24:19):
And I thought I was pretty friendly, and then I
went to d C and spend a lot of time
around East Coast kids and they were total assholes, and
I think it did toughen me up a lot. I
think I was kind of a pussy when I went
away to school, like many people are when they're like
eighteen or nineteen years old, And like, do you think
that that going to Vegas, which is kind of a
tough town, did it for you? Or do you think

(24:39):
we're actually just that's our personalities and it just kind
of reveals it how I spent a lot of time
because I do think it's the single most valuable at
your work. Hard is number one. Number two is you
can't allow people to get in your head and bother you.
And I think those are the two most valuable attributes
to success in a media age now. Absolutely, and there

(25:01):
probably is something wrong with us. I don't know what
it is, but I do think that there are a
selected group of people in this country, especially on the right,
or that are more conservative or even independent, just not
in the leftist mob. There needs to be some of
us who has that, because if there weren't, we'd be
completely drowned out. There has to be some people that

(25:22):
are I don't even want to call it grave because
I don't like to use the word brave, that just
don't care and don't give any f I think there
needs to be some of us, because if there's not,
then antide is not represented. So I take it as
a badge of honor if I if I need to
be the one that's controversial enough to say blue lives
matter and stick up for law enforcement and love the

(25:42):
flag and believe that our nation needs to have a
border and the gun rights are important. If that makes
me hated by some people, I'm pretty okay with that.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio apps.
Search f s R to listen live. We're talking to

(26:03):
Tommy Lauren. This is Wins and Losses Podcast. I'm Clay Travis.
Al Right, so you're at O A N. You start
to have some success. What happens next, Well, then I
was kind of face with a decision if I was
going to stay there and kind of just stay in
my comfort zone and it was in San Diego, beautiful
place to live, or I was going to do something different.

(26:25):
I really feel like I capped out my potential there
and it would have been comfortable to stay there. They
offered me in our three year contracts for quite a
bit of money. When you're twenty two years old and
that's your first job. It was quite a bit of
money and comfortable. But I just didn't want to be comfortable.
I always want to challenge myself, and I think for me,
that's the biggest thing I always asked myself, is what's next?

(26:46):
Because I never want to feel stegnant. And so the
opportunity presented itself for me to go to the Blaze.
Fox News wasn't quite ready for me yet. I was
too young, I understand. So I took that jump, in
that leap and moved to Dallas and started my show
like the Blaze. So what happens in Dallas? What do
you do with the Blaze? That's different than O A.
And that's when I first met you. I went on

(27:08):
your show a couple of times and I remember being like, man,
this girl is pretty fearless, right and uh. And so
you were in Dallas and we overlapped with friends there
in Dallas. I think you got into the sports circuit
a little bit, you know, some of the cowboys and
some of the people in in that universe, and we
started to overlap there a little bit with sports. But

(27:28):
and certainly the Colin Kaepernick issues all start to arise
in sports becomes intensely political. So that's how we initially met.
What kind of success did you have at the Blaze
and how was it different than what might have been
happening at O A. N. I had a lot of
fun at the Blaze because that was in the high election.

(27:48):
And believe it or not, even though I worked at
a conservative news network, I was the only Trump supporter
on air. Everyone else in that building hated Donald Trump.
Blendeck himself had a deep hatred for Donald Trump. He
was the quintessential never Trumper, and everybody else in that
building was too. And now they'll try to deny it,
They'll try to pretend that they were on that Trump train.

(28:09):
They weren't. It was just me. And so I was
at that conservative network being the only Trump supporter, and
I had so much fun during that election. And then
of course we had um Beyonce super Bowl performance. I
did some final thoughts about that, landed my voice in
a j Z song, and then of course we had
Colin Kaepernick did some final thoughts about that puts a
lot of people off. And then we had the election

(28:30):
of Donald Trump. So that was really one of the
greatest times in my career. I had so much fun
doing it. You know. I would have Nightline come and
interview me at my house, and it was a great
time until at all abruptly ended. So I'm gonna go
back to election night. Did you expect Trump to win? Like?
Deep down, I'm not talking about publicly where some people feel,

(28:51):
you know, like, oh, I'm supporting this guy, so I
don't want to say anything negative about his chances. Were
you surprised or did you think that he was going
to win that night? I thought it could go either way.
Of course, we know that the poles are telling us
there was no shot in hell. That night, I felt good.
So when the states started coming in we started winning,

(29:13):
it was amazing. I remember sitting there with one back
by the way who told everybody if they were going
to come to coverage to bring something to calm their nerves.
And he sat in the back and painted with a
smack on and was painting watercolor like a weirdo. And
I remember sitting here thinking, I'm the only one in
this room that once as president to win. I'm at
a conservative news network and they're sitting here crying when

(29:36):
states are coming in for Trump. And I just remember laughing.
I thought it was the funniest thing. They were so angry,
so bitter at me. I didn't care. I had great night.
And then um middle of the night, Glenn just got
up in less he couldn't even stomach it anymore. And
I remember he told somebody in the control room, don't
let Tommy take this over. And I'm thinking, well, hey,

(29:58):
I'm sorry that I was right and you were wrong,
but it's a great night for me, and it's a
great night for America, all right. So then how much
longer are you at the Blaze? So I was at
the Blaze until the middle of March. And then I
went on this little show called The View, and uh,
I express the fact that I am pro choice because

(30:19):
I believe in limited government, not the most conservative thing
to say. However, I believe that it's one of the
most conservative things you can say to believe in limited government.
But either way, I thought it was great. I remember
thinking it was going to be a blood bath if
I've been on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah and
I thought, oh boy, these women are just going to
lose their minds, are gonna hate me. It's gonna be

(30:39):
another blood bath situation. But it wasn't, and it was
very respectful, and I thought I did a great job.
I got a lot of great messages from even people
at the Blaze. And then it all went to hell
and I found out. This was on a Friday, and
on Monday, I found out that they had fired me

(30:59):
and the suspended my show. And that's when the real
fund begin. So you got fired and suspended for saying
that you were pro choice. Do you think that's what
it was? That's what it was. They said that I
offended the community. So as a political commentator, which by
the way, I had a profile in the New York
Times where I said I was pro choice, and I

(31:20):
think I said it on my show probably at least
once a month, that I believed in limited government. And
I don't care what you do with your life. I
just don't want to pay for it. I had said
that often, but this was Glenn's way of getting me out.
He thought, Okay, she was just right about this election.
I was a never Trump or Trump is now our president.
He's kind of looking foolish. So we thought, what is

(31:41):
the way that I can turn everyone against her and
get rid of her. Oh, I know, I'll say that
she offended the community and she's not a real conservative.
That was his out. That's what he did, and he
thought I would just go away quietly. Apparently wasn't paying
sequiss of attention to the kind of person I am.
All right, So this to me is fascinating because I
think if you believe a hundred percent in any political party,

(32:05):
you aren't actually using your brain, right, And I think
if you agree a hundred percent with any president, you
aren't actually using your brain. And I'm not even sure
if I were president of the United States that I
would agree with me a hundred percent, because so many
of the choices that have to be made are hard,
and if you sit there in weigh the different angles,
you might change your opinion over the course of four

(32:27):
years based on the data that's put in front of you. Right. So,
um so, when I saw that that you were getting
a lot of flak for saying that you are pro choice,
I actually thought, well, this makes me even more impressed,
because if you have an audience that likes you, sometimes
you can get seduced into only telling things that you

(32:48):
think they're all going to agree with you on, right, Like,
That's that's sort of the affirmation cycle that you can
find yourself in. But it's fundamentally dishonest because there are
things that many people who are listening to this right
now that they hear they're like, oh, I don't agree
with clear, Like, I'm pretty straightforward about many different things.
I'm pro choice like you are not. Because and by

(33:09):
the way, that's with a family of three, I just
I find it unbelievable to think that if I had
a fourteen year old daughter, let's say, and she got pregnant,
that the government would mandate one way or the other
about the choice that she would have to make at
fourteen years old. Or I've got three boys, if one
of them had a girlfriend and they got pregnant, I

(33:30):
think the idea that a government would swoop in and say, hey,
you have to make this choice is just wrong. That's
my opinion. I understand that other people might disagree with it,
but when I saw that quote from you, I was like, well,
this is fascinating. Um. And then it ultimately ends up
in a legal battle and you find your way to
Fox News, which is probably where you wanted to be

(33:53):
when you started at oh A N So it ended
up working out okay for you. What is has been
the fallouts since then? Uh as as in terms of
whether or not you're allowed to be conservative and have
opinions that aren't conservative orthodoxy. You know this what bothers
me about some some conservatives, not all, but some conservatives

(34:13):
who think we all have to fit into this little box.
That's not human nature to fit into that box. And
I'll tell you this, there are so many girls that
I talked to, young girls who will message me and
they say, you know, tell me, I really like what
you say, but I don't know how I can vote
Republican or I don't know how I can vote for
Donald Trump because you know, I'm pro choice and I'm
okay with same sex marriage, so I have to be

(34:34):
a liberal. It's like, whoa whoa. As conservatives, we're doing
a disservice to ourselves and our country and our party
by telling people that are you know, okay with LGBT
or pro LGBT community or pro choice, that they don't
fit into our box. That's it's not how it is.
I'd rather have a fiscal conservative who believes in securing leaves,

(34:54):
in low tashes and freedom then fitting into this little box.
So I, you know, I get flat from the A
lot of time I have people, you know you've had
guests on your show. I won uh one of our
probably new national residents very shortly, Ben Shapiro, who constantly
says that I'm not a conservative and I can't be
in the Conservative Party and I'm not you know, welcome

(35:14):
at the table. And that doesn't bother me either. I
don't care if liberals hate me. I don't care conservative
hate hates me. I'll just gonna be me either way.
And so at Fox News, what has your role been there?
So I helped launch our digital streaming platform, Fox Nation,
which you're going to join me on very shortly. But

(35:36):
I've been able to do my final Flax commentary every day,
but also do long term episodes I've gotten on the
border several times. I get to sit down with interesting
people like yourself and have longer form conversations, and it's
put up on a digital platform kind of like a
Netflix for Fox News. And so that's what I've been
doing at Fox for about three years now and still
getting into plenty of trouble on Twitter. So you are

(36:00):
outspoken on Twitter. I am outspoken on Twitter. One of
the reasons why I love owning out kick is and
this is why I started out kick now it's been
nine years ago. Was I I understand the way that
big corporate media works and many times and I can
imagine now because I am a boss and we have
a lot of different employees. You've got a billion things

(36:22):
that you're trying to take care of, and every now
and then one of your talents sends out a tweet
and you get complaints about it, or you get media
inquiries about it, and you're like, why won't he or
she just shut up. I hate to sound like the man,
but I understand that perspective. But I'm also on the
talent side pretty firmly where and everybody out there who

(36:42):
who was listening to this knows that I'm a First
Amendment absolutist that I believe in the marketplace of ideas,
and I am horribly troubled more so by probably anything,
by this constraining of what ideas are able to be shared.
And I think COVID and everything surrounding it has put
this entire there's an appropriate opinion to have in an

(37:06):
inappropriate opinion to have on steroids? Have you gotten that
sense too, that even after Trump want wins in and
everybody's like, oh, we need to listen to everybody's opinion
and everything else, that it feels like every day and
every week and every month and certainly every year, the
allowable comments on social media are getting more and more constrained,

(37:29):
and therefore the opinions are becoming more and more constrained,
and so are the debates. Oh absolutely, I mean I
just thought today on Twitter they're still trying to say
that voting by mail is safer and more secure than
voting in person, something that I am adamantly against. But
I've had my experience with being shadow banned on social media.
Just last week, I posted a picture with a trimp

(37:53):
up and I asked my friends, Hey, did you see
this in your feed, and they said, no, I didn't
see it. I didn't see it on need my accounts.
And I started asking people on social media did you
see this post? And I got hundreds and hundreds of messages, No,
I don't see this in my feed. In fact, I
don't see a lot of your stuff in my feet anymore.
Big tech is taking this election to a new extreme,

(38:14):
and they're gonna try to drown out considerate and Trump
supporting supporting voices under the guise of election integrity or
whatever they want to call it. And it's just gonna
get worse, I believe, after he wins. But that thing
is a social media is kind of our best resource
right now, you think so? And obviously the New York
Post story Hunter Biden, the way that it was covered

(38:35):
it really, I think, opened a lot of people's ideas
to the marketplace being constrained. Now. You manage your own
Facebook accounts, you manage your Instagram accounts, you manage your
Twitter accounts. For people out there who may not be
as active on social media, how would you describe the
interactions that you get on those different accounts, and how

(38:56):
would you break down the effectiveness of each of them
in terms of sharing your content with them as someone
who does all that management herself, which is really pretty incredible.
And how big are those audiences for you now? Well,
on Twitter I got about one point seven million, Facebook's
about four point nine million, and Instagram's one plenty eight million.

(39:18):
So I've been blessed to have a lot of those
followers that have been following me for years and following
my career. But I mean, I didn't even look at
the mentions from people without blue check marks, but the
mention just from people with blue check marks to me
are vile and somehow appropriate. I mean, last week doing
at the final debate coverage, people didn't like what I tweeted,

(39:38):
and so they're asking why I'm still alive with blue
check marks. But you know, that's okay on Twitter, but
anything that I say I get reports about, and apparently
it's beyond the pale um. We all know it's happening,
we all know it's never going to be fair, and
we just gotta do the best we can, so all
of them. I mean, that's a massive audience that you

(39:59):
are able to reach theoretically through all three of those platforms.
And you also, we hear a lot when people are
women and they are liberal. About all of the awful
things that people say to women who are liberal, right, Like,
that's a big talking point in the world of sports media.
Oh my god. You could never imagine the things that

(40:22):
people say to too liberal women in the sports media
on Twitter, Facebook, whatever else. You get that times hundred,
I imagine. And yet nobody I ever see out there saying, man,
poor Tommy, she gets so much abuse as a woman.
It's really not fair, right, Like, you don't get protected
in any way, No, not a doubt. In fact, I've

(40:43):
actually had people throw things at me on me when
I'm with my parents, and people surely that I think
it's so great, I'm getting what I deserve, blah blah blah. No,
but you know what, I don't need their protection. I
don't need the feminist to come to my defense. I
just don't. And anybody who feels like a victim. I've
never gotten up one day in my life and felt
like a victim, even though things have been, you know,

(41:05):
rocky for me. Sometimes it's a little said horrible things.
I'm not going to cry over it because at the
end of the day, it shows his career. But the
double standard really is the only standards of the left,
and it's quite apparent it is amazing. Now. I talked about,
you know, the way that people respond and how you
can handle things, and part of Look, I'm forty one,
I'm quite a bit older than you, and I've got

(41:27):
three kids, I've got a wife. I have sort of
a universe outside of what I do for a living.
So I really do not care because at times, you know,
I'm coaching flag football or I'm at you know, basketball
coaching or whatever. You know, like I'm involved in my
kids lives, and so there is an escape for me.
Do you think it's better or worse to be single

(41:50):
and be in the middle of these battles every single day?
Do you ever wonder, man, I wish I could just
dial out and and and have like a serious boyfriend
or a husband or whatever, like, how do you get
away from the noise? For lack of a better way
of phrasing it, And do you think it's better or
worse to be single? As a part of it, We'll
tell you've met my friends, so you know, I have

(42:11):
a good old time here in Nashville, Tennessee. Yes, that
is my way of getting is escape bank it. And
you know, some people, they're hard on me for that
because they hate the fact that I'm going Instagram and
post boomerangs at the bar with my friends on my weekend.
But I'm still a twenty eight year old girl. I
still have fun. Oh shutter at the fact. You know,
I drink beer and I have fun with my friends
and we sing Skari Okay and Miss Kelly's and we

(42:31):
hang out at Winners and Losers all this every weekend.
That is my escape. To me. Social media is this
fictitious little place that I go and I work and
I care about but you've had to check out. And
I have a lot of fun and Nashville way more
fun than I had in California. And I still remind
myself that I am still just a twenty eight year
old average girl and that is how I feel and

(42:54):
that is how I act, and I think that's why
I'm relatable. I think that's why people take a liking
to me on social media because they see that I'm
not just invested in politics. Seven I have a life.
I go out, I have fun, and I think we
should all be doing that, especially with everything going on
right now. You know, if the mayor lets us, but
don't get that night because it comes out after eleven pm.

(43:15):
And be sure to catch live editions about kick the
Coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern,
three am Pacific. I know people are listening in all
different cities and states right now, but in Nashville in particular,
where you and I both live, I believe the bars
have to be closed by eleven o'clock right now. It's
almost like COVID only spreads at you know, after eleven,

(43:36):
because the bars can be open all day restaurants as well.
And we're talking to Tommy Laren and she is. You
can find her on all these different places. I don't
even need to tease it because she's got so many
people on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. But you can find
her easily there. So you're in Nashville now, and I've
been out. I've seen you interact with people, people want photos.
It's a pretty uh, it's a pretty fun environment friendly

(43:58):
environment so far that I've seen, and I'm sure there
are exceptions, but in general, how would you assess the
way that people treat you out in public in Nashville
compared to l A. Yeah, it's a night and day
difference from l A. And I think the reason for
that is it's not because everybody in Nashville is conservative.
You and I both know that's not the case. But

(44:18):
the liberals that might hate me, they don't feel as
emboldened to come up and say something to me like
they would in l A. And I'll tell you in
l A. I have been pushed, i have been picked,
I have been tripped, I've been shouted down because they
know that probably of the people in the place are
going to encourage that because they know that they have
a liberal monopoly, so they feel very strong and really

(44:41):
a powerful and Nashville that's not the case. There are
many liberals that are brave enough to come up and
say something if they know that perhaps they'll be five
of their conservatives nearby. So people are pretty nice to
me here. Plus I just hang out in places that
conservatives are. If you guys come to Nashville, you have
to go to winners and losers. That's where I frequent

(45:02):
and people are very nice to me. There a lot
of patriots, a lot of military, a lot of law enforcement,
and I just love in Nashville the winners and losers
A lot of fun. Steve Ford has got great places
there in Nerve and everybody else. That's been a staple
for local Nashvillians for a long time in midtown. Now,
what happens next? So you're only twenty eight, and it's

(45:25):
amazing how quickly you have developed a large audience you've
been in rapidly. Before I get to what happens next,
what is to you the craziest thing that has happened
to you since you left un l V where it's
only been seven years basically since you started working in media,
but it feels like a lifetime because so much craziness

(45:45):
has happened. What is the wildest thing in your experience
that has happened in your career where you had to
pinch yourself and you were like, I can't believe this
is going oncreadily. When I had simultaneous feuds with both
Nicki Mina Ossian Cardi b That's probably not something I've
thought would happen, especially since the two of them don't

(46:05):
like each other, but they seem to bond overrating me.
So that was an interesting path. How did that happen?
And then how did Nicki manag and come after you. Yeah. So,
Pardi b I had said she had made a video
talking about how much she hate Founded Trump, some kind
of a just kind of a stumbling mess video, and

(46:26):
I tweeted that, oh boy, look at here's the political
genius of our generation. And then she told me that
she was gonna dog lock me, and she's treated on
me several times since then. And then Nicki minaj Um
I had said something about immigration and she basically told
me that, you know, I'm not from here and I'm
not native American. So I've had a few with both

(46:47):
of them kind of around the same time. Very interesting,
a very weird place to be. I think about every
rappers had an issue with me at one point or another. Interesting.
But how many rap songs have you been in? How
many raps songs have you been name checked in? There's
a couple at least, right, there's at least to one
of them. My voices in that's the jay Z soun
for those that want to listen to drug dealers anonymous,

(47:09):
I pusha T and jay Z my voice is and
that one. And then I was in a wallet song
where he calls me Tammy. And so of course, as
you know, your doctor wife. He's called me Tammy because
he called me Tammy Lauren, and that's my I guess
that's my new um pseudonym. I don't know, but I've
been at least two and then a handful of other
smeller ones. What is it like to hear your name

(47:30):
in a rap song? It's very surreal. I don't think
that anybody growing up in rapid City, South Dakota thinks
that they're going to be known or mentioned by some
of the biggest rappers you know, in the industry. So
it's surreal. But I just I guess I'm doing something right.
I mean, I love rap music, so I'll take it.

(47:51):
So that would surprise some people who are listening right now,
because there they would listen and they would think, oh,
I think at least the expectation would be that you
are not a fan of pop culture, or you're not
engaged with what is being produced in Hollywood and whatnot.
But that's not really true, right, Like you are and

(48:13):
and and I think you believe and I think you're
probably right that there are many people like you who
will vote for Donald Trump and also love let's say
the Real Housewives, or or would carry a gun and
also like rap music as a you know, as a
truck voting conservative right like that that that cross poll

(48:33):
nation is occurring, and I think the stereotype would be
that it isn't. Well. The reason that I talk about
pop culture is because I understand pop culture. I am
a consumer of pop cultures, so I love it. I
as you mentioned, I love The Housewives, I love Bravo.
I don't think it caters to conservative women, and I
don't think conservative women sometimes feel like they have a

(48:56):
place in it, but we still watch it, we still listen.
You know, you can be conservative and still watch Andy
Cohen and tune out at a liberal parts, and you
can still listen to rap music and enjoy all these singers,
and people would be surprised and all I like jay Z,
I like Beyonce, listen to their music. I think they're crazy,
but I like their music, and you can still have

(49:17):
those opinions and appreciate that even if you don't agree
with someone politically. And conservative women and conservatives in general, yeah,
we're still viewers. By the way. I think that, you know,
NFL and sports are starting to realize that maybe now. Oh,
I don't think there's any doubt, so I asked this
question before. What's next? So you are twenty eight years old.

(49:37):
You have gone from O. A. N. To The Blaze
to Fox News. A lot of people would say, Oh,
that's the that's the gold standard right for any conservative
commentator to reach Fox News. You're at Fox Nation and
you have a monstrous social media following across Instagram, Twitter,
Facebook for people that are engaging with your opinions, either

(49:58):
agreeing or disagreeing. What's next for you? What do you want?
What would you like to do? You know, I don't
know the answer to that question because I don't like
to plan things out because it never really turns out
the way I planned anyway. If there's anything I've learned
from my careers that I really can't have that much
of a plan. But I will tell you this, I'm
always going to be me. I'm always gonna tell it

(50:20):
like it is, and it will be the coldest day
in hell the day that I stopped being me and
I cater or cow tow to anybody. So I'm just
gonna keep doing this. I'm really excited to see the
results of this election. We'll see where that pusses as
a nation. But I'm gonna keep doing what I'm gonna do.
And I think what's so important is is having fearless
voices out there who, despite whose president, or who's being elected,

(50:43):
or what the election year is or the political climate,
that just tell it like it is and are fearless
and never apologize. I'm just gonna keep doing that wherever
it takes me. Here I am one week from today. Basically,
is the election you think that Trump will win. If
Trump loses, how does it change your career path? If

(51:03):
at all? Have you even thought about that? Is it
better or worse for you depending on whether he wins
and loses or ultimately for what you do? Does the
president really matter? I worry less about my career, and
I worry more about all the average Americans out there
that are going to be crushed under a Biden let's
be real, Harris administration. So I worry about them. But

(51:26):
I am very confident in this president. I know that
the Left is going to do whatever they have to
do through cheating, voter fraud to try to win this
election and then maybe pack the course whatever that schisy
crap they want to pull. But I think that the
silent majority is going to come out in such strong
numbers that we're going to even overwhelm that. So I'm
very very confident in another four years of Donald Trump.

(51:46):
It's after that, but we have to worry about You're
only I know, I said that was one of my
last questions, But do you have any interest at all
in ever running for political office yourself? The only thing
I think I would run for, and this would be
a while because I got to get acclimated. But you
know how much I dislike this mayor in Nashville. So
if I was here long enough and I felt like

(52:08):
I could do a good job for Nashville, I might
step up to the plate for that. But everything else,
Quite frankly, I have way too much fun hanging out
with my friends and going to the bars on the weekend.
I really don't want a life in public office. That
is Tommy Laron, Uh, this has been fantastic. What else?
Is there anything else you would like to tell people
who are out there listening that maybe you haven't gotten

(52:30):
Let me take a step back. People who listen to
this podcast a lot have heard me say this before
when I was doing depositions. I used as a when
I was a practicing attorney. I used to like to
ask the question at the end, was there anything you
wish that I had asked you that gives you an
opportunity to talk to an audience and tell someone something
that otherwise you haven't been able to. And I always
got such interesting answer sometimes doing that, and I've translated

(52:54):
it to this life as well. Was there anything else
you would like for the audience listening to us right
now out to know about you that they don't or
that I haven't given you an opportunity to talk about here?
I guess my piece of advice to anybody listening, whether
on the left or the riot, or sports fan or
political fan or Donald Trump supporter, I would just remind them,

(53:15):
never apologize when you're right. Always apologize when you're wrong,
but never apologize when you're right. I never will do it,
Especially don't apologize for an opinion. I always say the
only thing I'll acknowledge getting wrong is a fact, because
it can lead to an opinion that I don't have
the same basis for that I thought I did before.

(53:35):
But this idea that you have to constantly bend at
the altar of submission to all the people who are Losers.
Sitting around on social media all day is patently absurd. Tommy,
I know we talk, are going to talk. Some people
may be coming in to listen to this podcast through
the Fox Nation Interview. I look forward to that, and
I look forward to to seeing me around the city
of Nashville and maybe helping you with your mayoral campaign
one day. Alright, deal sounds good. I'll probably see you

(53:58):
at Losers for sure. That is Tommy Laurin. Encourage you
to go follow her if you're not already one of
the millions of people who are following her. I am
Clay Travis. This has been the Wins and Losses podcast,
the thirty six different interview and long form conversation. I
hope you're enjoying them. If you enjoyed this one, i'd
encourage you to check out some of the others. Thanks
for hanging with us on Wins and Losses. I'm Clay
Travis and she is Tommy Laurin, and we appreciate the

(54:20):
time