September 29, 2025 • 37 mins
The Sagamore Bridge replacement project is something that many Massachusetts drivers are looking forward to, hoping to have an easier drive to the Cape. However, not everyone is excited as part of the project includes taking 13 local properties by eminent domain. Property owners Marc and Joan Hendel spent decades of savings and two years waiting for their Cape Cod home to be built, only to be given a notice one month after moving in that their home was going to be taken away. Marc and Joan joined us to share their story as we discuss the Sagamore Bridge replacement project.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WVZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back on this Monday night and September twenty ninth.
We have one more day here in September, and we
will begin the month of October on Wednesday, and we
will also begin year nineteen of Nightside on Wednesday. We've
been doing this program now for over eighteen years, but
it was formally inaugurated by former news and programming director
(00:29):
Peter Casey on October first, two thousand and seven as
a Nightside with Dan Ray. And we celebrate the birthday
if you build the anniversary, and we'll celebrate that on Wednesday.
So we have a couple of guests tonight who find
themselves in a really tough situation. I talked with them today.
They are Joan and Mark Hendel. Let me first of all,
(00:53):
welcome both of you. Joan and Mark for joining us
tonight on Nightside. Thanks for being.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Available shape the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, you folks are in a tough set of circumstances
and not of your own making, and I'm hoping that
in the court of public opinion tonight you'll get some support.
You live in Born, Massachusetts, in what's called the village
(01:22):
of Sagamore pretty much in the shadow of the Sagamore Bridge.
Is that an accurate description.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, that's extremely accurate, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And you were both native New Englanders who returned home
to New England really within this past year or so,
and you purchased a piece of land and you built
what you would consider to be your forever home, your
retirement home, on this plot of land. And I think
(01:58):
you told me that you actually moved in in twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, late October early November of twenty four. The house
was in the condition of where we could move in.
It wasn't one hundred percent complete until around March of
this past year, but it was good enough for us
to move in. We still had workers coming in and
out for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So you've you lived in that, you've lived in your home,
really new Manahew, you describe it less than a year.
And in that year you were told by the Commonwealth
of Massachusetts that you're newly built home. And the property
upon which you built your newly built home was in
(02:44):
the cross heres of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts under the
eminent domain statue. Basically, you and I think there's about
what thirteen or fourteen other homeowners who have been told
by the government here Insers, just specifically by the Healy administration,
by the Department of Transportation, that you're going to have
(03:06):
to move out of your home at some point and
they're going to take the property. Have they given you
a deadline as to when you're supposed to vacate your
home or have we got that far? So?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Dan.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
In fact, the Commonwealth and mass dot can't seem to
give us any kind of exact timeline. They don't have
a final plan for the bridge yet. They're talking roughly
twenty twenty seven twenty eight before they'll have a contractor
engaged and be ready to break ground. But that's all
we know now.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
You and both of you are on separate line. So Joe,
you feel to jump in as well when I talk
to you today. You're not a shy person. So this
is a nightmare for you. To put it mildly, it's
a nightmare because you both I believe if you're not retired,
(04:00):
you're retired from full time work.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Correct, No, we still both work full time. Okay, we
work from home. Yeah, we work from home and we've
got several years before.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Okay, fair enough, Okay, So not only are you trying
to re establish yourself here in Massachusetts and whatever type
work you do, and it's not relevant to the conversation. Obviously,
both of you need to spend time during the day
doing your work while at the same time worrying about
what literally and figuratively looms over your head and over
(04:33):
your home, the future of the Sagamore Bridge. Let's make
it very clear. You recognize that the Sagamore Bridge at
a minimum is in need, is in the need of repair.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Correct, Oh, absolutely, yes, we both do.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So you're not saying, oh no, no, no, that's up right, fretch. Okay,
but but you want to be able to keep your
homes your home, and I guess the state has not
to do very well. What is the healthy administration telling you?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Not a whole lot. It's very difficult to get straight answers.
There's a lot of different agencies involved, a lot of
people pointing us to other people who point us to
other people. But from what we know, we received a
letter on March third, twenty twenty five, this past year,
stating that our home was going to be one of
several taken by the eminent Domain law by the Commonwealth
(05:29):
of Massachusetts in order to facilitate the building of the
new Sagamore Bridges. Needless to say, this was devastating to us.
Joan can probably talk to it best. She's the actual
She's the one who actually answered the door and received
the letter.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh, I'm sure this was certified mail and you probably
had to sign for.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
It, right, Absolutely not, No, Okay, it was supposed to
be that way.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, tell us what that But Joe, go ahead. Did
we lose Joan?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
They came. I was in my office working and I
saw a mask dot car delivering envelopes to several of
the neighbors' homes here, just sticking them on the front door.
He came up to our door and I opened the
door and I said, what is this. He handed it
and we said, oh, it's about the bridges. Read it
(06:27):
and if you have any questions, give me a call.
I opened it and I was I just melted. Mark
and I both stood there in total shock.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
We were never.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Told by anyone, anyone in the process of this purchase
of land and the building of the house that this
was coming down the line.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And the individual who gave you the letter, did he
or she give you a phone number where you could
talk and get more information or was he simply a
he or she's simply a courier?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Well, no, the actual person's name, who who is was
in that letter, delivered the letter here, and he said,
but now eminent domain law says that letter has to
be certified. Now they they okay, we're.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That gets us it, Joan. That gets me into the
weeds a little bit, which I don't want to do
because it's it's a bigger argument that I want to
win that I want to engage you with you guys
today because this, to me is heartbreaking when you think
that someone has built what they consider to be their
retirement home and now the state is going to come in.
We're going to take a break when we come back.
I want to because you you made some things clear
(07:45):
to me which frankly I didn't understand. Today. They're going
to build two Sagamore bridges right now. There's one Sagamore Bridge,
as I endish, well because I've driven over it many times. Uh,
it's a bridge that has traffic going in each direction.
Same with the Bourne there's one bridge going, you know,
in each direction. The plan is to take eventually take
(08:09):
down the current Sagamore Bridge, the current Born Bridge, and
in their place put up two bridges which will have
two lanes of traffic going one one bridge going on
to Cape and the other bridge coming off Cape, same
way with the Bourne. So they're talking about this is
going to be a huge project. When you told me
(08:31):
that today, that's the first indication that I have had
about the scope of this project. I thought they were
going to slowly but surely replace one bridge with a
similar bridge that obviously would last many more years. We're
going to get into all of that, and also get
into what your neighbors are feeling. If anyone wants to call,
(08:53):
anyone who has ever been the subject of eminent domain
knows it's a miserable process. Six seven, two, five, four
ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
This is so new you mentioned to me today you
don't even have a lawyer yet to speak of as right. Correct. Okay,
So there may be attorneys who have specialty in eminent
(09:15):
domain who are listening tonight, and if they want to
reach out to me tomorrow, I'll put them in contact
with you. You'll have to do your due diligence on
the attorneys. But this is another opportunity where you may
get some help from you know, private council here. But
we'll get to all of this shit. Oh my pleasure,
my pleasure. Look, I can't tell you how empathetic I
(09:36):
am to your situation. And again, if you would live
there for fifty years and you both are ready, you know,
to go off to assisted living, you might say, well,
the timing was perfect. No, the timing is not perfect
here at all. My guests are Joan and Mark Hendel.
They're still working. They have relocated here to Massachusetts, and
they're natives of New England. They built what they consider
(09:58):
to be their dream home and now about to be
snatched away by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to build two
Sagamore Bridges and two Born bridges. They're not affected by
Bourne obviously. These two bridges are about five miles apart,
going on to different into different areas of the cape.
The Sagamore goes from Bourne over to Sandwich. The Bourne
(10:20):
Bridge goes more from where he am over in the
direction of Foul But so that anybody who's been down
the cape knows there's two bridges separated by five miles.
Eventually there's going to be four bridges separated by five miles.
And look, we know that the government can always mess
a lot of things up, and I think they've gotten
(10:41):
off on the wrong foot here and hopefully we can
we can help you, get you a little bit of
a little bit of empathy from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,
which recently has not been particularly empathetic nor particularly transparent.
My guests Mark and Joan Handel, if you'd like to
join the conversation and offer them a word of support
or wort of advice six one seven four ten thirty
(11:03):
six one seven nine one ten thirty Coming right back
on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
My Guess the Jon and Mark Kendael. What I want
to do, Joanan, Mark is I want to talk to
as many people as possible and we will tell the
story through them. A lot of people have never dealt,
thank God, with eminent domain, but you're dealing with it.
The administration has not been forthcoming or has been available
(11:34):
to answer your questions, and they haven't helped you. They
should be talking to you. They should be saying to you, Look,
you're gonna be okay for three or four years. We'll
work something out. We'll work something out which will satisfy you.
You know, we're not here to make your life miserable.
We're here to help you. But you're not getting that
from this administration.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Correct, Yeah, no, I mean they they sort of want
to tell us that, but the reality of the situation is,
you know, they don't have a final plan for the bridge,
and yet they're already wanting to send appraisers out to
our house to appraise the house. We were told by Mascot,
you know, you really should let the appraisers in so
they can see what kind of improvement you've done since
(12:15):
the house was And I thought, you don't understand this
is a new house. So there's so much they don't
understand about the situation that we are in as people
who lived out of state bought a piece of land
sight unseen, based on our realtor's recommendation, came with a
contract for a house built. The house not a person,
(12:37):
as Jones said, not a peep. No one ever said
to us, Oh, by the way, you should know that
there's a chance that your house is going to be
taken by Eminent Domain because they're planning to tear down
the bridges and replace them. No one mentioned that ever,
and we had no why would we have thought about that?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And well, you may you may have a lawsuit with
with people who you dealt with, who knows. But the
point is you're residents of Massachusetts now, your your natives
of New England, your human beings. You should be treated
like a human being, not as somebody who's coming's going
to come in with a check market and say okay, this,
this and this. The the Eminent Domain should should say okay,
(13:17):
look what is it going to cost to locate you,
to relocate you into an into an area that you're
going to be happy and that's going to be similar
to what we you have here. I mean, they're not
going to build for you. You know, a waterfront house
on nian Tucket that's worth twenty million dollars. You understand that.
But for that to retin and say he's here to
(13:39):
take it or leave it, that's just not fair. Let
me let me get the phone calls here as well. Okay,
there's there's one here from Iowa, and I want to
accommodate Jim in Iowa. Jim, you are first this hour.
You're with Joan and Mark Kendall.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Go ahead, Jim, and I spent a lot of good
time in Wooster, mister in Devons when I was out
there in the military, and thank you for your service.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's Worcester, Lester and what was the other one you mispronounced?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Go ahead, Devons now Devons.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I know, yeah, yeah, I spent some time in Devon's too,
so I know that's that's the easy one. It's Worcester
and Lemonster, So go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
You please forgive me for not being a native, but I.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Will no, no, no, no, no, you just having more
talk with you.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Go ahead, it's all right.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
What strikes me is that it seems there's a lack
of good faith on the part of the state. And
if the state is not following their own rules on
how they're supposed to do things, who is policing that state?
Which leads it to no other outcome than ending up
in a court battle. Well, may biases the state is
(14:45):
biased against the people already, so house is going to
end up and who's going to make it right?
Speaker 6 (14:50):
Well?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The problem, the problem is by the way that the
judges here in Massachusetts are appointed by the state, they're
not elected. I'm not sure what the situation is in Iowa.
So judges here are for the most part.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
I am I am familiar with that. Well, this is
one of the things that irritates me.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, this act who is who is.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Who's going to force this state government to act in
good faith and follow their own rules?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Well, that's what lawyers are all about. Okay, So, I mean,
you know.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
This is a this is a problem. This is a
project just being funded by the federal government. Why can't
the federal government step in and take the funds away
and say no, you're not going to do it until
you do it right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, with this, with this White House, that might happen.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Everybody else's toes Jim.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
All I'm saying is that with this White House and
the relationship that this White House has with the Comewealth
of Massachusetts on a number of issues, I'm sorry that
might happen. You're from Iowa. Do you happen to know
Joan and Marc? Are you just a listener.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Who Actually we were neighbors to them for a long time,
but we knew them a long time before they moved there,
and we're actually I need to come out.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
And visit them.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Okay, great, And uh, we've been.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Following this closely and I have written to the administration
about it.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah. And how many letters.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
These people that don't want to be part of the states.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Jim, how many letters have you gotten back from the
governor's office?
Speaker 5 (16:15):
You know, I've been trying to count, but it appears
my fingers and toes have been amputated.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well that's the problem. And again it's it's I look,
this is the court of public opinion.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I want people to understand that there therefore, the
grace of God goes goes any one of us. All
of a sudden, they can decide to build a road,
and it's happened to it happened to other places.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Oh and I saw where I was before.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah. And evident eminent domain is a legitimate purpose of government.
And there is a recent State Supreme US Supreme Court
decision on this that that this this will be this
eman do maintaking will be with help will be upheld.
The issue is how fair that the state should not
(17:11):
be able to come in and say, okay, you know
what we're giving you this, and we know that the
money that you bought this house for you'll never be
able to get anything nearly like this. But that's what
the fair market value. We think the fair market value
is a couple of years ago they should.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Take at a kangaroo court.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Don't think, Yeah, that's what I would call it. You know,
I probably have a different word for it. But we're
on an FCC rate.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
You know, you don't want life No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Coming up in my nineteenth year here, We're not going
to do that. No. But I think that that the
the fair market value should not be what they necessarily
pay for this house at probably a discounted rate, because
whoever was selling it to them was aware of what
was coming down the pike and they weren't. And I'm
not talking about the mass Turnpike. I'm talking about that
(17:59):
you know, theoretical pipe. And they should say, what is
going to restore these people so they can live, uh,
somewhere you know, relatively close by. They want to live
in the cape, somewhere where they will have peace and
quietude and enjoyment equivalent to what they would have had
if this bridge was not there, if this bridge.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Didn't exit believe the term is called making them whole.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes exactly, yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
But but the issue we're facing right.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But if you look at it and say, oh, you know,
what I'm saying is that if they say, well, in
order to make you hold, you paid X and we
will give you X plus one dollar. Well, if if
you can't with X plus one dollar relocate within some
proximity in a house the same size as yours, with
with with whatever niceties you have in your house, then
(18:52):
that's not making you hold.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
It's making you have.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
When when the insurance company totals my car and they
want to give me have to value, I'm going to say,
show me your comparables, right, and show me your comparables
in my region that I don't have to drive three
days to get to. How stay in the state isn't
held to this standard? Also, well, they are, and they.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Do need to get us comparables. The problem is, as
Dan is stating, they will not be able to find
for what they will probably consider fair value. They will
not be able to find a home built in twenty
twenty four or sooner with three bedrooms, three bathrooms, hardwood floors,
mini splits, you know, energy efficient windows, brand new, septic,
brand new, this brand new everything. That is really our
(19:36):
key point, Dan, is this whole fair market value and
wanting to say that they're on our side and they're
going to help us, It doesn't make us whole.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, what we need what we have.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Again, it comes down to if they interpret fair market
value and say, well, the comparables are the house what
you pay for it, and that's one hundred percent fair
market value. That's not fair to you in my opinion. Period.
Remember this, everybody. There's the concept of a court of law,
and there's also the concept of a court of equity,
so that equity talks about fairness. And whenever you're talking
(20:11):
about real estate, every piece of real estate is by
definition unique, okay, and that is a very important concept.
They cannot replicate what you have because the only piece
of real estate that identities specifically is the same as
yours is the piece of real estate on which you're living.
(20:31):
I don't want to get into a real estate law
class here, but this arguments that should be able to
be made and you should be treated more transparently right now,
and they should come to you and say, look, you
don't need any more anxiety we're going to make it
right for you. May take us a few months, but
sit back and relax, enjoy your home while you're here.
(20:52):
We'll give you plenty of time to get relocated, and
we will treat you fairly. That's what they need be.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Wouldn't it be easier to believe that if they document
and in what they were doing and saying instead of
running you around.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Well, obviously, by the way we have I don't want
to I don't want to get into law class here book,
but clearly, in Massachusetts, anything that deals with real estate,
we have what's called the Statute of Frauds. It needs
to be in writing, so they should obviously reduce these
assurances to writing. But again, Jim in Iowa, I'm gonna
let you go. I hope you'll continue to be a
(21:24):
listener of Nightside, whether or not your fuller neighbors are
on the show or not.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Someday I may move out there. I would love it.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You'll be more than welcome to let me.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Tell you when i'm when i'm I see a hole.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
All right, Jim, thank you very much, have a great night.
Good We got to take a break. We're way past
our news break. But that was an interesting call, and
I wanted to accommodate Jim. I got Alex, John and
Larry Uh and I got a little bit of room.
If you want to call six one seven two five
four ten thirty or one other line at six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. We will proceed and
(21:58):
continue with our conversation. And my goal tonight is to
try to generate some support from Mark and Joan Handel
and thirteen other neighbors who live in your set of
circumstances as well. We'll be back on night's side.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
All right, let's continue along here with my guest Mark
and Joan Handel. I'd rather at this point give callers
an opportunity to join this conversations as we work our
way towards ten o'clock. Let me go to Larry in Dennisport, Massachusetts. Larry, welcome,
you're all my guest, mister and missus Hindle, Mark and
(22:41):
Joan Hendle go.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Ahead, Larry, yeah, thank you. And I can't wait till
they have that last doctor on for an hour. So
living on Cape Cod, I'm very similar with what's going
on there and I actually went through something very similar
to that a long time ago. My business was burnt
out in the Chelsea fire in nineteen seventy three. I
(23:02):
lost the whole building, and then the town, the City
of Chelsea decided to rezone the property and didn't allow
me to build. So it was quite the process. We
ended up hiring a private appraiser and to get the value.
You know, it was so long ago, I don't remember
(23:23):
all the exact details. But here's the problem with the
Sagamore Bridge. You got three government bodies to deal with.
The Army Corps of Engineers controls the canal, the highway
Route six, Route three down to it, and Route six
going over. It is a state highway and all the
on and off ramps are in the count of Born.
(23:45):
You have three government agencies all trying to decide what
to do here. They're built. They're trying to replace a
bridge that's already fifty years overdue. The Army Corps of
Engineers took a ten year.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You don't Larry. I mean to interrupt you here, but
I don't think you sed toeing the handles anything. They
don't know. I'm wondering what advice you would give to them,
because I think they're being mistreated at this point, just
as you were mistreated when you're building, when your business
was not allowed to be rebuilt in Chelsea in nineteen
seventy three.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
My advice would be definitely hire a lawyer, because I
would think that real estate agent would be have to
living in a cage in a cave to not know
that those bridges are going to be replaced. Hire a
loyal get as much money as you feel is fair,
and I would move as far away from that location,
move down to Dennisport's gorgeous here, because that's a long
(24:39):
term project and the noise and traffic is going to
be a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
They're not going to Larry. Look, I think they're not
going to They're not looking to move a quarter of
a mile away. I think they want to make sure
that they're compensated adequately so they can move perhaps to
Dennis Court or to somewhere else in the cave where
they can have the same quality of life that they
would have in this beautiful new home. Am I correct? Mark?
(25:03):
I don't want to speak for you.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, Joan, Yeah, No, we'd like to stay on the
upper Cape. This possible, just because we chose this location
for several reasons. Most of it is it's halfway between
my family and Jones family. To drive. We don't deal
with Cape traffic because we're the first exit, so we'd
like to stay on the upper Cape. We really don't
(25:25):
want to move down Cape, and we don't want to
move off Cape because we've established our social life and
everything on the Cape. So yeah, so we'd like to
stick around here if we could.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, but again, you're not going to you know, you're
not going to move like three hundred yards away because.
Speaker 6 (25:41):
Oh absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, we want to get away from both bridges. And
I also want to get away from Sandwich Road because
the next project is are going to widen that. So
I don't want to go through this again in twenty years.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Absolutely, Larry, good advice. I never realized you were displaced
by the Great Chelsea Fire of seventy three. I remember
that very well. That anyone who was living in the
area remembers literally what an inferno that was.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I remember that. Good luck, good luck in your challenge.
Thanks so much, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well, take a break here. We'll get to everybody who's
on the line. But I got to take another quick break.
We'll be back on nightside right after these brief messages.
My guest Mark and Joan Handel. They live in Sagamore,
actually in the town of Born, but in the village
of Sagamore, and they are literally and figuratively underneath the
Sagamore Bridge, and therein lies the complication and the story
(26:37):
that they're dealing with. And all I'm trying to do
is to make people understand and be somewhat empathetic uh
to their situation, because it could be any one of us.
And let's let's try as best we can to rattle
a few cages on their behalf back on nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you
Bustin's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Okay, back to the call. As we go, let me
go to John in Duxbury. John, you're on with Mark
and John Hendel, who built a new home in the
shadow of the Sagamore Bridge. They were unaware of what
anticipate what's going to happen in the next few years,
and they're not getting much information from the the Corwalth
(27:22):
of Massachusetts.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
Go right ahead, Well, thank you for taking my call.
My call will be directed somewhat of echo of the
previous caller. I'd say take it out of the public
m and go right after privately the realtors. There's fines
and penalties said in place. You can't sell a home
for example, that maybe a murder occurred in without you know,
(27:43):
them signing a release saying they know that happened there.
And I can't believe these realtors can be can be
exempt from any kind of penalty, and then you wouldn't
be dealing with what the mercy of the court would be,
you dealing with fines and penalties. They should leave them
to leave, leave the property with Well.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
There's two issues. There's two issues there, John, I don't
know if you're a lawyer, I am one. Obviously that
is an option they have. At the same time, if
someone in the process, and I don't want to identify
anyone by name here, just to be sure, if someone
in the in the sales process, you know, did not
disclose or worse yet, hid facts from them there, they
(28:23):
may have a cause of action against the realtor. But
remember or whomever, whomever, Okay, maybe the prior owner.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's the facts of these cases. You got to it
costs money to figure out all the facts. You can
go after somebody and you can get a judgment against
an individual, but if they have declared bankruptcy or they
have no funds, the judgment is worth just nothing more
than the paper it's written on the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
(28:52):
This is a multi billion dollar project. There are thirteen
design understand that, Mark and Joan correct me if I'm wrong.
There are thirteen Massachusetts families who are impacted.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
By this right and some of them are veterans, and
some of them are elderly, and some of them are and.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
They all need to be treated fairly because if if
they're going to be relocated, they should be able to
be relocated into circumstances which make them, which satisfies them. Realistically,
you're not going to get, as I said, a waterfront
mansion on Nantucket. They're not looking for that, okay. But
(29:31):
in a project that's going to be worth billions, if
not eventually trillions of dollars, there should be some way.
I would hope, and I'll say this, I would hope
that the governor would come down and have a town
meeting with the thirteen families and just put your minds
at ease for her to send just functionaries to your
(29:52):
door and knock on your door and hand you an
envelope that I.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Have invited her. I've written several times and up for
that very thing. And we get radio silence.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well we got we don't have radio silence tonight.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
They're they're entitled to be to be living in the
same kind of comfort and and they you know, the
same reality that they have. No, it won't be exact,
and I agree, but it has to be equivalent to
not a down not less than there have to be
me whole in that regard.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
John, two questions for you, one of you a lawyer,
and two of you have had any experience with eminent domain.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
No, I'm not a lawyer, and no experience with eminent domain.
By living in a town, real estate values are coffee
conversation and people people get upset about moving an old
shock that might have housed mouths.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Understand right, But this is more. This is more. This
is much more serious than that, that's for sure.
Speaker 6 (30:51):
No, it is. It is sirt and I'm not trying
to make light of it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
No, no, no, And I appreciate your call. You that
you gave. I wouldn't have asked you if you're a lawyer,
if I didn't think you gave them good legal advice.
Thank you very much, John, first time calling. Got to
give you a run of applause. Rob, get the digital
studio audience up here. Here we go.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Night, keep listening, keep calling. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
As you mentioned, lawyers are expensive. We sunk our entire
life savings into this home, so, you know, trying to
find a lawyer who's willing to help us without some
kind of contingency or some percentage or something. We we
shouldn't have to pay money out of our pockets at
all in this process for anything, because we didn't ask
(31:38):
for our home and land to be basically stolen by
the com If there.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Are any lawyers who have expertise and eminent domain, they
want to give me a call at the station. If
you wouldn't mind, I would pass along your number today,
if you if you would give me permission to do that, Okay,
all right, let me go to and then of course
you'll have to make your decision as to the their
quality of representation in the terms of representation. Let me
(32:03):
go to Mary and Sagamore, Mary and Sagamore, Welcome, How
are you tonight?
Speaker 7 (32:09):
Hello Dan, I've followed you for many, many years. I'm
the matriarch in this Roundhill development. Okay, I'm eighty nine
years old. I moved into my home when I was
twenty two years old. I thought it was a palace.
I still think it's a palace. I'm obviously distraught at
(32:31):
the prospect of losing it. I know Mark, I've met
Mark and Joan on several occasions. I am I'm a
different story because my house was built in nineteen fifty eight.
(32:53):
We moved in in May of nineteen fifty eight. My
husband passed away and twenty thirteen he put his heart
and soul into this house. It's a brick home. It's
I don't know. We've been told that they're going to duplicate.
They're going to go out and find a comparable property.
(33:15):
I've spent fifty years in the real estate business. I'm
still a license broker in Massachusetts. I take two out.
I take my twelve hours of continuing it every two years,
so I've kept my license active even though I'm not
physically active in the business.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
What I would suggest if I could make a suggestion
to you, Mary, And again, we're getting a little tight
on time here. As you know, all real estate is unique,
and in addition to that, the story of each of
your families in this area are unique. Joan and Mark's
(33:53):
story is quite different than yours. You've been there a
long time. The thing that I would advise all of
you to do, and I say this to Joan and Mark,
and I'll say it to you and to anyone else
who might be listening in strength, there's numbers, and you
folks need to work together and get competent counsel and
get the representation.
Speaker 7 (34:15):
I totally totally agree with with that concept. Yeah, But
as I said, when you're when the appraisal team has
already appraised my home, apparently they're not going to give
us answers for several months, they said. But the biggest
concern is that they're going to take the property prematurely
and then something happens, there's a glitch with the financing
(34:39):
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Again, Mary, Mary, you're getting into the weeds where I'm
going to lose my audience. In terms of each individual
set of circumstances, I'm sure has a lot of substance
to it. But what I'm saying is the commonality that
each of you have is the government has swooped in
and said we are taking your property. It is clear
(35:03):
to me that there is a public interest at stake here,
and that is the safety of the bridge. I don't
think any of you would be successful in contesting their
ability to take the property. The question has to be
is how fairly can you, each, individually and as a group,
be compensated for that taking. And there is where I
(35:25):
think the steak can be much more generous and much fairer,
and much more comforting to all of you, whether you're
happy to be eighty nine or someone who has just
moved and been there since nineteen fifty eight, or someone
like the Handels. Mary. Thank you for calling, but I'm
flat out of time, and I want to thank You're
very welcome, and I want to thank Joan and Mark,
(35:46):
and I want to wish you the best of luck.
You have my number. I want you to keep in
touch with me, and I obviously will be more than
happy to follow this story. I liked these stories because
this is truly that David versus Goliath story in a
current incarnation and I'm always going to root for David
against Goliath, and eventually, hopefully you, like David, will prevail.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Thank you, Dan, and we appreciate you giving us the
opportunity to share our story with your listeners.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Well, I'll be back in touch, I promise, and you
guys can know how to contact me as well, so
we'll keep it as a two way street, that's for sure.
Thank you. So best of luck. Sleep a little more
solid soundly tonight, because hopefully some people from the Governor's
office will realize that some sort of comfort needs to
be extended to you in the short term and fairness
(36:39):
has to be delivered to you in the long term.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Thanks again, perfect, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Thanks good night, Mark, good night Joe. When we return,
we will change topics although I love that topic, that
is for sure, and we will talk about the performance
of Massachusetts public school students, which is not good.
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WVZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back on this Monday night and September twenty ninth.
We have one more day here in September, and we
will begin the month of October on Wednesday, and we
will also begin year nineteen of Nightside on Wednesday. We've
been doing this program now for over eighteen years, but
it was formally inaugurated by former news and programming director
(00:29):
Peter Casey on October first, two thousand and seven as
a Nightside with Dan Ray. And we celebrate the birthday
if you build the anniversary, and we'll celebrate that on Wednesday.
So we have a couple of guests tonight who find
themselves in a really tough situation. I talked with them today.
They are Joan and Mark Hendel. Let me first of all,
(00:53):
welcome both of you. Joan and Mark for joining us
tonight on Nightside. Thanks for being.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Available shape the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, you folks are in a tough set of circumstances
and not of your own making, and I'm hoping that
in the court of public opinion tonight you'll get some support.
You live in Born, Massachusetts, in what's called the village
(01:22):
of Sagamore pretty much in the shadow of the Sagamore Bridge.
Is that an accurate description.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yes, that's extremely accurate, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And you were both native New Englanders who returned home
to New England really within this past year or so,
and you purchased a piece of land and you built
what you would consider to be your forever home, your
retirement home, on this plot of land. And I think
(01:58):
you told me that you actually moved in in twenty
twenty four.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, late October early November of twenty four. The house
was in the condition of where we could move in.
It wasn't one hundred percent complete until around March of
this past year, but it was good enough for us
to move in. We still had workers coming in and
out for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So you've you lived in that, you've lived in your home,
really new Manahew, you describe it less than a year.
And in that year you were told by the Commonwealth
of Massachusetts that you're newly built home. And the property
upon which you built your newly built home was in
(02:44):
the cross heres of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts under the
eminent domain statue. Basically, you and I think there's about
what thirteen or fourteen other homeowners who have been told
by the government here Insers, just specifically by the Healy administration,
by the Department of Transportation, that you're going to have
(03:06):
to move out of your home at some point and
they're going to take the property. Have they given you
a deadline as to when you're supposed to vacate your
home or have we got that far? So?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Dan.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
In fact, the Commonwealth and mass dot can't seem to
give us any kind of exact timeline. They don't have
a final plan for the bridge yet. They're talking roughly
twenty twenty seven twenty eight before they'll have a contractor
engaged and be ready to break ground. But that's all
we know now.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
You and both of you are on separate line. So Joe,
you feel to jump in as well when I talk
to you today. You're not a shy person. So this
is a nightmare for you. To put it mildly, it's
a nightmare because you both I believe if you're not retired,
(04:00):
you're retired from full time work.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Correct, No, we still both work full time. Okay, we
work from home. Yeah, we work from home and we've
got several years before.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Okay, fair enough, Okay, So not only are you trying
to re establish yourself here in Massachusetts and whatever type
work you do, and it's not relevant to the conversation. Obviously,
both of you need to spend time during the day
doing your work while at the same time worrying about
what literally and figuratively looms over your head and over
(04:33):
your home, the future of the Sagamore Bridge. Let's make
it very clear. You recognize that the Sagamore Bridge at
a minimum is in need, is in the need of repair.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Correct, Oh, absolutely, yes, we both do.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So you're not saying, oh no, no, no, that's up right, fretch. Okay,
but but you want to be able to keep your
homes your home, and I guess the state has not
to do very well. What is the healthy administration telling you?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Not a whole lot. It's very difficult to get straight answers.
There's a lot of different agencies involved, a lot of
people pointing us to other people who point us to
other people. But from what we know, we received a
letter on March third, twenty twenty five, this past year,
stating that our home was going to be one of
several taken by the eminent Domain law by the Commonwealth
(05:29):
of Massachusetts in order to facilitate the building of the
new Sagamore Bridges. Needless to say, this was devastating to us.
Joan can probably talk to it best. She's the actual
She's the one who actually answered the door and received
the letter.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh, I'm sure this was certified mail and you probably
had to sign for.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
It, right, Absolutely not, No, Okay, it was supposed to
be that way.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, tell us what that But Joe, go ahead. Did
we lose Joan?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
They came. I was in my office working and I
saw a mask dot car delivering envelopes to several of
the neighbors' homes here, just sticking them on the front door.
He came up to our door and I opened the
door and I said, what is this. He handed it
and we said, oh, it's about the bridges. Read it
(06:27):
and if you have any questions, give me a call.
I opened it and I was I just melted. Mark
and I both stood there in total shock.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
We were never.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Told by anyone, anyone in the process of this purchase
of land and the building of the house that this
was coming down the line.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And the individual who gave you the letter, did he
or she give you a phone number where you could
talk and get more information or was he simply a
he or she's simply a courier?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Well, no, the actual person's name, who who is was
in that letter, delivered the letter here, and he said,
but now eminent domain law says that letter has to
be certified. Now they they okay, we're.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That gets us it, Joan. That gets me into the
weeds a little bit, which I don't want to do
because it's it's a bigger argument that I want to
win that I want to engage you with you guys
today because this, to me is heartbreaking when you think
that someone has built what they consider to be their
retirement home and now the state is going to come in.
We're going to take a break when we come back.
I want to because you you made some things clear
(07:45):
to me which frankly I didn't understand. Today. They're going
to build two Sagamore bridges right now. There's one Sagamore Bridge,
as I endish, well because I've driven over it many times. Uh,
it's a bridge that has traffic going in each direction.
Same with the Bourne there's one bridge going, you know,
in each direction. The plan is to take eventually take
(08:09):
down the current Sagamore Bridge, the current Born Bridge, and
in their place put up two bridges which will have
two lanes of traffic going one one bridge going on
to Cape and the other bridge coming off Cape, same
way with the Bourne. So they're talking about this is
going to be a huge project. When you told me
(08:31):
that today, that's the first indication that I have had
about the scope of this project. I thought they were
going to slowly but surely replace one bridge with a
similar bridge that obviously would last many more years. We're
going to get into all of that, and also get
into what your neighbors are feeling. If anyone wants to call,
(08:53):
anyone who has ever been the subject of eminent domain
knows it's a miserable process. Six seven, two, five, four
ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
This is so new you mentioned to me today you
don't even have a lawyer yet to speak of as right. Correct. Okay,
So there may be attorneys who have specialty in eminent
(09:15):
domain who are listening tonight, and if they want to
reach out to me tomorrow, I'll put them in contact
with you. You'll have to do your due diligence on
the attorneys. But this is another opportunity where you may
get some help from you know, private council here. But
we'll get to all of this shit. Oh my pleasure,
my pleasure. Look, I can't tell you how empathetic I
(09:36):
am to your situation. And again, if you would live
there for fifty years and you both are ready, you know,
to go off to assisted living, you might say, well,
the timing was perfect. No, the timing is not perfect
here at all. My guests are Joan and Mark Hendel.
They're still working. They have relocated here to Massachusetts, and
they're natives of New England. They built what they consider
(09:58):
to be their dream home and now about to be
snatched away by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to build two
Sagamore Bridges and two Born bridges. They're not affected by
Bourne obviously. These two bridges are about five miles apart,
going on to different into different areas of the cape.
The Sagamore goes from Bourne over to Sandwich. The Bourne
(10:20):
Bridge goes more from where he am over in the
direction of Foul But so that anybody who's been down
the cape knows there's two bridges separated by five miles.
Eventually there's going to be four bridges separated by five miles.
And look, we know that the government can always mess
a lot of things up, and I think they've gotten
(10:41):
off on the wrong foot here and hopefully we can
we can help you, get you a little bit of
a little bit of empathy from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,
which recently has not been particularly empathetic nor particularly transparent.
My guests Mark and Joan Handel, if you'd like to
join the conversation and offer them a word of support
or wort of advice six one seven four ten thirty
(11:03):
six one seven nine one ten thirty Coming right back
on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
My Guess the Jon and Mark Kendael. What I want
to do, Joanan, Mark is I want to talk to
as many people as possible and we will tell the
story through them. A lot of people have never dealt,
thank God, with eminent domain, but you're dealing with it.
The administration has not been forthcoming or has been available
(11:34):
to answer your questions, and they haven't helped you. They
should be talking to you. They should be saying to you, Look,
you're gonna be okay for three or four years. We'll
work something out. We'll work something out which will satisfy you.
You know, we're not here to make your life miserable.
We're here to help you. But you're not getting that
from this administration.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Correct, Yeah, no, I mean they they sort of want
to tell us that, but the reality of the situation is,
you know, they don't have a final plan for the bridge,
and yet they're already wanting to send appraisers out to
our house to appraise the house. We were told by Mascot,
you know, you really should let the appraisers in so
they can see what kind of improvement you've done since
(12:15):
the house was And I thought, you don't understand this
is a new house. So there's so much they don't
understand about the situation that we are in as people
who lived out of state bought a piece of land
sight unseen, based on our realtor's recommendation, came with a
contract for a house built. The house not a person,
(12:37):
as Jones said, not a peep. No one ever said
to us, Oh, by the way, you should know that
there's a chance that your house is going to be
taken by Eminent Domain because they're planning to tear down
the bridges and replace them. No one mentioned that ever,
and we had no why would we have thought about that?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And well, you may you may have a lawsuit with
with people who you dealt with, who knows. But the
point is you're residents of Massachusetts now, your your natives
of New England, your human beings. You should be treated
like a human being, not as somebody who's coming's going
to come in with a check market and say okay, this,
this and this. The the Eminent Domain should should say okay,
(13:17):
look what is it going to cost to locate you,
to relocate you into an into an area that you're
going to be happy and that's going to be similar
to what we you have here. I mean, they're not
going to build for you. You know, a waterfront house
on nian Tucket that's worth twenty million dollars. You understand that.
But for that to retin and say he's here to
(13:39):
take it or leave it, that's just not fair. Let
me let me get the phone calls here as well. Okay,
there's there's one here from Iowa, and I want to
accommodate Jim in Iowa. Jim, you are first this hour.
You're with Joan and Mark Kendall.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Go ahead, Jim, and I spent a lot of good
time in Wooster, mister in Devons when I was out
there in the military, and thank you for your service.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's Worcester, Lester and what was the other one you mispronounced?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Go ahead, Devons now Devons.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I know, yeah, yeah, I spent some time in Devon's too,
so I know that's that's the easy one. It's Worcester
and Lemonster, So go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
You please forgive me for not being a native, but I.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Will no, no, no, no, no, you just having more
talk with you.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Go ahead, it's all right.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
What strikes me is that it seems there's a lack
of good faith on the part of the state. And
if the state is not following their own rules on
how they're supposed to do things, who is policing that state?
Which leads it to no other outcome than ending up
in a court battle. Well, may biases the state is
(14:45):
biased against the people already, so house is going to
end up and who's going to make it right?
Speaker 6 (14:50):
Well?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The problem, the problem is by the way that the
judges here in Massachusetts are appointed by the state, they're
not elected. I'm not sure what the situation is in Iowa.
So judges here are for the most part.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
I am I am familiar with that. Well, this is
one of the things that irritates me.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, this act who is who is.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Who's going to force this state government to act in
good faith and follow their own rules?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Well, that's what lawyers are all about. Okay, So, I mean,
you know.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
This is a this is a problem. This is a
project just being funded by the federal government. Why can't
the federal government step in and take the funds away
and say no, you're not going to do it until
you do it right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, with this, with this White House, that might happen.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Everybody else's toes Jim.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
All I'm saying is that with this White House and
the relationship that this White House has with the Comewealth
of Massachusetts on a number of issues, I'm sorry that
might happen. You're from Iowa. Do you happen to know
Joan and Marc? Are you just a listener.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Who Actually we were neighbors to them for a long time,
but we knew them a long time before they moved there,
and we're actually I need to come out.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
And visit them.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Okay, great, And uh, we've been.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Following this closely and I have written to the administration
about it.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah. And how many letters.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
These people that don't want to be part of the states.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Jim, how many letters have you gotten back from the
governor's office?
Speaker 5 (16:15):
You know, I've been trying to count, but it appears
my fingers and toes have been amputated.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well that's the problem. And again it's it's I look,
this is the court of public opinion.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I want people to understand that there therefore, the
grace of God goes goes any one of us. All
of a sudden, they can decide to build a road,
and it's happened to it happened to other places.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Oh and I saw where I was before.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah. And evident eminent domain is a legitimate purpose of government.
And there is a recent State Supreme US Supreme Court
decision on this that that this this will be this
eman do maintaking will be with help will be upheld.
The issue is how fair that the state should not
(17:11):
be able to come in and say, okay, you know
what we're giving you this, and we know that the
money that you bought this house for you'll never be
able to get anything nearly like this. But that's what
the fair market value. We think the fair market value
is a couple of years ago they should.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Take at a kangaroo court.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Don't think, Yeah, that's what I would call it. You know,
I probably have a different word for it. But we're
on an FCC rate.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
You know, you don't want life No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Coming up in my nineteenth year here, We're not going
to do that. No. But I think that that the
the fair market value should not be what they necessarily
pay for this house at probably a discounted rate, because
whoever was selling it to them was aware of what
was coming down the pike and they weren't. And I'm
not talking about the mass Turnpike. I'm talking about that
(17:59):
you know, theoretical pipe. And they should say, what is
going to restore these people so they can live, uh,
somewhere you know, relatively close by. They want to live
in the cape, somewhere where they will have peace and
quietude and enjoyment equivalent to what they would have had
if this bridge was not there, if this bridge.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Didn't exit believe the term is called making them whole.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes exactly, yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
But but the issue we're facing right.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But if you look at it and say, oh, you know,
what I'm saying is that if they say, well, in
order to make you hold, you paid X and we
will give you X plus one dollar. Well, if if
you can't with X plus one dollar relocate within some
proximity in a house the same size as yours, with
with with whatever niceties you have in your house, then
(18:52):
that's not making you hold.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
It's making you have.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
When when the insurance company totals my car and they
want to give me have to value, I'm going to say,
show me your comparables, right, and show me your comparables
in my region that I don't have to drive three
days to get to. How stay in the state isn't
held to this standard? Also, well, they are, and they.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Do need to get us comparables. The problem is, as
Dan is stating, they will not be able to find
for what they will probably consider fair value. They will
not be able to find a home built in twenty
twenty four or sooner with three bedrooms, three bathrooms, hardwood floors,
mini splits, you know, energy efficient windows, brand new, septic,
brand new, this brand new everything. That is really our
(19:36):
key point, Dan, is this whole fair market value and
wanting to say that they're on our side and they're
going to help us, It doesn't make us whole.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, what we need what we have.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Again, it comes down to if they interpret fair market
value and say, well, the comparables are the house what
you pay for it, and that's one hundred percent fair
market value. That's not fair to you in my opinion. Period.
Remember this, everybody. There's the concept of a court of law,
and there's also the concept of a court of equity,
so that equity talks about fairness. And whenever you're talking
(20:11):
about real estate, every piece of real estate is by
definition unique, okay, and that is a very important concept.
They cannot replicate what you have because the only piece
of real estate that identities specifically is the same as
yours is the piece of real estate on which you're living.
(20:31):
I don't want to get into a real estate law
class here, but this arguments that should be able to
be made and you should be treated more transparently right now,
and they should come to you and say, look, you
don't need any more anxiety we're going to make it
right for you. May take us a few months, but
sit back and relax, enjoy your home while you're here.
(20:52):
We'll give you plenty of time to get relocated, and
we will treat you fairly. That's what they need be.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Wouldn't it be easier to believe that if they document
and in what they were doing and saying instead of
running you around.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Well, obviously, by the way we have I don't want
to I don't want to get into law class here book,
but clearly, in Massachusetts, anything that deals with real estate,
we have what's called the Statute of Frauds. It needs
to be in writing, so they should obviously reduce these
assurances to writing. But again, Jim in Iowa, I'm gonna
let you go. I hope you'll continue to be a
(21:24):
listener of Nightside, whether or not your fuller neighbors are
on the show or not.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Someday I may move out there. I would love it.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You'll be more than welcome to let me.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Tell you when i'm when i'm I see a hole.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
All right, Jim, thank you very much, have a great night.
Good We got to take a break. We're way past
our news break. But that was an interesting call, and
I wanted to accommodate Jim. I got Alex, John and
Larry Uh and I got a little bit of room.
If you want to call six one seven two five
four ten thirty or one other line at six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. We will proceed and
(21:58):
continue with our conversation. And my goal tonight is to
try to generate some support from Mark and Joan Handel
and thirteen other neighbors who live in your set of
circumstances as well. We'll be back on night's side.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
All right, let's continue along here with my guest Mark
and Joan Handel. I'd rather at this point give callers
an opportunity to join this conversations as we work our
way towards ten o'clock. Let me go to Larry in Dennisport, Massachusetts. Larry, welcome,
you're all my guest, mister and missus Hindle, Mark and
(22:41):
Joan Hendle go.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Ahead, Larry, yeah, thank you. And I can't wait till
they have that last doctor on for an hour. So
living on Cape Cod, I'm very similar with what's going
on there and I actually went through something very similar
to that a long time ago. My business was burnt
out in the Chelsea fire in nineteen seventy three. I
(23:02):
lost the whole building, and then the town, the City
of Chelsea decided to rezone the property and didn't allow
me to build. So it was quite the process. We
ended up hiring a private appraiser and to get the value.
You know, it was so long ago, I don't remember
(23:23):
all the exact details. But here's the problem with the
Sagamore Bridge. You got three government bodies to deal with.
The Army Corps of Engineers controls the canal, the highway
Route six, Route three down to it, and Route six
going over. It is a state highway and all the
on and off ramps are in the count of Born.
(23:45):
You have three government agencies all trying to decide what
to do here. They're built. They're trying to replace a
bridge that's already fifty years overdue. The Army Corps of
Engineers took a ten year.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You don't Larry. I mean to interrupt you here, but
I don't think you sed toeing the handles anything. They
don't know. I'm wondering what advice you would give to them,
because I think they're being mistreated at this point, just
as you were mistreated when you're building, when your business
was not allowed to be rebuilt in Chelsea in nineteen
seventy three.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
My advice would be definitely hire a lawyer, because I
would think that real estate agent would be have to
living in a cage in a cave to not know
that those bridges are going to be replaced. Hire a
loyal get as much money as you feel is fair,
and I would move as far away from that location,
move down to Dennisport's gorgeous here, because that's a long
(24:39):
term project and the noise and traffic is going to
be a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
They're not going to Larry. Look, I think they're not
going to They're not looking to move a quarter of
a mile away. I think they want to make sure
that they're compensated adequately so they can move perhaps to
Dennis Court or to somewhere else in the cave where
they can have the same quality of life that they
would have in this beautiful new home. Am I correct? Mark?
(25:03):
I don't want to speak for you.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, Joan, Yeah, No, we'd like to stay on the
upper Cape. This possible, just because we chose this location
for several reasons. Most of it is it's halfway between
my family and Jones family. To drive. We don't deal
with Cape traffic because we're the first exit, so we'd
like to stay on the upper Cape. We really don't
(25:25):
want to move down Cape, and we don't want to
move off Cape because we've established our social life and
everything on the Cape. So yeah, so we'd like to
stick around here if we could.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, but again, you're not going to you know, you're
not going to move like three hundred yards away because.
Speaker 6 (25:41):
Oh absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, we want to get away from both bridges. And
I also want to get away from Sandwich Road because
the next project is are going to widen that. So
I don't want to go through this again in twenty years.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Absolutely, Larry, good advice. I never realized you were displaced
by the Great Chelsea Fire of seventy three. I remember
that very well. That anyone who was living in the
area remembers literally what an inferno that was.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I remember that. Good luck, good luck in your challenge.
Thanks so much, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well, take a break here. We'll get to everybody who's
on the line. But I got to take another quick break.
We'll be back on nightside right after these brief messages.
My guest Mark and Joan Handel. They live in Sagamore,
actually in the town of Born, but in the village
of Sagamore, and they are literally and figuratively underneath the
Sagamore Bridge, and therein lies the complication and the story
(26:37):
that they're dealing with. And all I'm trying to do
is to make people understand and be somewhat empathetic uh
to their situation, because it could be any one of us.
And let's let's try as best we can to rattle
a few cages on their behalf back on nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you
Bustin's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Okay, back to the call. As we go, let me
go to John in Duxbury. John, you're on with Mark
and John Hendel, who built a new home in the
shadow of the Sagamore Bridge. They were unaware of what
anticipate what's going to happen in the next few years,
and they're not getting much information from the the Corwalth
(27:22):
of Massachusetts.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
Go right ahead, Well, thank you for taking my call.
My call will be directed somewhat of echo of the
previous caller. I'd say take it out of the public
m and go right after privately the realtors. There's fines
and penalties said in place. You can't sell a home
for example, that maybe a murder occurred in without you know,
(27:43):
them signing a release saying they know that happened there.
And I can't believe these realtors can be can be
exempt from any kind of penalty, and then you wouldn't
be dealing with what the mercy of the court would be,
you dealing with fines and penalties. They should leave them
to leave, leave the property with Well.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
There's two issues. There's two issues there, John, I don't
know if you're a lawyer, I am one. Obviously that
is an option they have. At the same time, if
someone in the process, and I don't want to identify
anyone by name here, just to be sure, if someone
in the in the sales process, you know, did not
disclose or worse yet, hid facts from them there, they
(28:23):
may have a cause of action against the realtor. But
remember or whomever, whomever, Okay, maybe the prior owner.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's the facts of these cases. You got to it
costs money to figure out all the facts. You can
go after somebody and you can get a judgment against
an individual, but if they have declared bankruptcy or they
have no funds, the judgment is worth just nothing more
than the paper it's written on the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
(28:52):
This is a multi billion dollar project. There are thirteen
design understand that, Mark and Joan correct me if I'm wrong.
There are thirteen Massachusetts families who are impacted.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
By this right and some of them are veterans, and
some of them are elderly, and some of them are and.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
They all need to be treated fairly because if if
they're going to be relocated, they should be able to
be relocated into circumstances which make them, which satisfies them. Realistically,
you're not going to get, as I said, a waterfront
mansion on Nantucket. They're not looking for that, okay. But
(29:31):
in a project that's going to be worth billions, if
not eventually trillions of dollars, there should be some way.
I would hope, and I'll say this, I would hope
that the governor would come down and have a town
meeting with the thirteen families and just put your minds
at ease for her to send just functionaries to your
(29:52):
door and knock on your door and hand you an
envelope that I.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Have invited her. I've written several times and up for
that very thing. And we get radio silence.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Well we got we don't have radio silence tonight.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
They're they're entitled to be to be living in the
same kind of comfort and and they you know, the
same reality that they have. No, it won't be exact,
and I agree, but it has to be equivalent to
not a down not less than there have to be
me whole in that regard.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
John, two questions for you, one of you a lawyer,
and two of you have had any experience with eminent domain.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
No, I'm not a lawyer, and no experience with eminent domain.
By living in a town, real estate values are coffee
conversation and people people get upset about moving an old
shock that might have housed mouths.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Understand right, But this is more. This is more. This
is much more serious than that, that's for sure.
Speaker 6 (30:51):
No, it is. It is sirt and I'm not trying
to make light of it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
No, no, no, And I appreciate your call. You that
you gave. I wouldn't have asked you if you're a lawyer,
if I didn't think you gave them good legal advice.
Thank you very much, John, first time calling. Got to
give you a run of applause. Rob, get the digital
studio audience up here. Here we go.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Night, keep listening, keep calling. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
As you mentioned, lawyers are expensive. We sunk our entire
life savings into this home, so, you know, trying to
find a lawyer who's willing to help us without some
kind of contingency or some percentage or something. We we
shouldn't have to pay money out of our pockets at
all in this process for anything, because we didn't ask
(31:38):
for our home and land to be basically stolen by
the com If there.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Are any lawyers who have expertise and eminent domain, they
want to give me a call at the station. If
you wouldn't mind, I would pass along your number today,
if you if you would give me permission to do that, Okay,
all right, let me go to and then of course
you'll have to make your decision as to the their
quality of representation in the terms of representation. Let me
(32:03):
go to Mary and Sagamore, Mary and Sagamore, Welcome, How
are you tonight?
Speaker 7 (32:09):
Hello Dan, I've followed you for many, many years. I'm
the matriarch in this Roundhill development. Okay, I'm eighty nine
years old. I moved into my home when I was
twenty two years old. I thought it was a palace.
I still think it's a palace. I'm obviously distraught at
(32:31):
the prospect of losing it. I know Mark, I've met
Mark and Joan on several occasions. I am I'm a
different story because my house was built in nineteen fifty eight.
(32:53):
We moved in in May of nineteen fifty eight. My
husband passed away and twenty thirteen he put his heart
and soul into this house. It's a brick home. It's
I don't know. We've been told that they're going to duplicate.
They're going to go out and find a comparable property.
(33:15):
I've spent fifty years in the real estate business. I'm
still a license broker in Massachusetts. I take two out.
I take my twelve hours of continuing it every two years,
so I've kept my license active even though I'm not
physically active in the business.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
What I would suggest if I could make a suggestion
to you, Mary, And again, we're getting a little tight
on time here. As you know, all real estate is unique,
and in addition to that, the story of each of
your families in this area are unique. Joan and Mark's
(33:53):
story is quite different than yours. You've been there a
long time. The thing that I would advise all of
you to do, and I say this to Joan and Mark,
and I'll say it to you and to anyone else
who might be listening in strength, there's numbers, and you
folks need to work together and get competent counsel and
get the representation.
Speaker 7 (34:15):
I totally totally agree with with that concept. Yeah, But
as I said, when you're when the appraisal team has
already appraised my home, apparently they're not going to give
us answers for several months, they said. But the biggest
concern is that they're going to take the property prematurely
and then something happens, there's a glitch with the financing
(34:39):
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Again, Mary, Mary, you're getting into the weeds where I'm
going to lose my audience. In terms of each individual
set of circumstances, I'm sure has a lot of substance
to it. But what I'm saying is the commonality that
each of you have is the government has swooped in
and said we are taking your property. It is clear
(35:03):
to me that there is a public interest at stake here,
and that is the safety of the bridge. I don't
think any of you would be successful in contesting their
ability to take the property. The question has to be
is how fairly can you, each, individually and as a group,
be compensated for that taking. And there is where I
(35:25):
think the steak can be much more generous and much fairer,
and much more comforting to all of you, whether you're
happy to be eighty nine or someone who has just
moved and been there since nineteen fifty eight, or someone
like the Handels. Mary. Thank you for calling, but I'm
flat out of time, and I want to thank You're
very welcome, and I want to thank Joan and Mark,
(35:46):
and I want to wish you the best of luck.
You have my number. I want you to keep in
touch with me, and I obviously will be more than
happy to follow this story. I liked these stories because
this is truly that David versus Goliath story in a
current incarnation and I'm always going to root for David
against Goliath, and eventually, hopefully you, like David, will prevail.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Thank you, Dan, and we appreciate you giving us the
opportunity to share our story with your listeners.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Well, I'll be back in touch, I promise, and you
guys can know how to contact me as well, so
we'll keep it as a two way street, that's for sure.
Thank you. So best of luck. Sleep a little more
solid soundly tonight, because hopefully some people from the Governor's
office will realize that some sort of comfort needs to
be extended to you in the short term and fairness
(36:39):
has to be delivered to you in the long term.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Thanks again, perfect, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Thanks good night, Mark, good night Joe. When we return,
we will change topics although I love that topic, that
is for sure, and we will talk about the performance
of Massachusetts public school students, which is not good.
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