September 20, 2024 • 40 mins
Boston City Councilors got into a debate over a resolution offered by Councilor Edward Flynn proposing the Israeli flag be raised at City Hall Plaza on Oct. 7, one year since Hamas’ attack on Israel, to honor the civilian lives lost and Israelis held hostage. The resolution was objected by Councilor Benjamin Weber, who expressed concerns about inflaming passions on both sides. Councilor Ed Flynn and Jeff Robbins, former delegate to the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, joined to discuss.
*Councilor Weber denied our invitation to join the conversation*
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*Councilor Weber denied our invitation to join the conversation*
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBSY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Al As we are moving to the nine o'clock hour,
and I have a story that has not gotten a
lot of publicity.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's been in I think at least the Herald, if
maybe not the Globe.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Yet we'll see. I'm delighted to be joined by two people. First,
I'm going to introduce them separately. First of all, Boston
City Councilor Ed Flynn.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Ed Flynn is somebody who is.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Very supportive of the state of Israel, very supportive of Israelis,
and who a nation that that suffered an incredible attack,
a terrorist attack last October seventh.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Ed Flynn, Welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I'm doing well. Dan. It's great to be with you.
It's great to be with the audience as well.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Dan, thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You this, I guess, in the last few days filed
what seems to me to be a pretty reasonable resolution
with the City Council which would honor the lives lost
and those held hostage following the October seventh terrorist attack
on Israel. You don't need to read it, but I
(01:17):
have it in front of me. Just tell me about
the highlights. There's only three paragraphs to whereas clauses, and
then an order which you hoped the City Council would approve.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Just give us the.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Cliff notes version so we can talk a little bit
more about what your motive is.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Thank you, Dan. The resolution I filed before the City Council.
As we approach October seventh, which would be the one
year anniversary of the horrific terrorist attack on Israel, we
would recognize that day and remember the victims, the survivors,
(02:06):
but also those that are still held hostage, asking for
their release, but really remembering, remembering this day, remembering the pain,
the suffering that the Jewish community has gone through, and
to stand in solidarity with them during this difficult time.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And what you wanted to do was to have a
resolution which would again condemn the acts of terrorism and
call for the release of the hostages. I forgot that
there were forty three people who either were dual citizens
or full American citizens who died that day. And there
(02:50):
are still, as you know, as I think everyone knows,
there are still they believe, they're not sure. Upwards are
perhaps ninety seven hostages that are still somehow alive, including
seven Americans, and you also wanted that in recognition of
the first anniversary of this horrific terrorist attack on an
ally Israel, he wanted the City Council to have the
(03:14):
flag of the State of Israel raised on the third
flag pole on the City Hall Plaza in place of
the City of Boston flag. All sounds perfectly fine, but
apparently one member of the City Council took objection. Took
exception of this, the City Councilor Weber, who as Benjamin Webber.
(03:39):
We invited him to join us tonight, he was unable to,
said that he had a conflict who he has a
commitment this evening, and he released a statement saying that
Councilor Webber connected with a prominent Jewish organizer who reached
out before the council meeting saying he was worried about
(03:59):
raising the Israeli flag on City Hall Plaza as a
way to honor the victims. Council of Webber wants to
come together to create a space for.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
People to mourn.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He looks forward to working with Council of Flynn and
his colleagues to make that happen. Because of his objection
and he happens to be the one Jewish member of
the city council. Because of his objection your resolution, it
wasn't technically tabled, but it was basically sent to a
committee to die. Can you tell us what your reaction
(04:31):
to that was. It seems that I don't see what's
wrong with your resolution, and I certainly don't understand why
Council of Webber would take an exception. I would assume
that he, first and foremost would be very supportive of it,
you know, as the only Jewish member of the city council.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
It is just to back up a little bit.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
If you do want to raise a flag on City
Hall Plaza, you do have to receive permission, and one
of the ways you can receive permission is through a resolution,
and that's one of the reasons I did file the resolution.
In order to fly a flag at City Hall Plaza,
(05:14):
you have to go through the through the process. And
I attend almost all flag raisings, and they're about celebrating
and recognizing most of the time, celebrating and recognizing the
people of a country that came here, celebrating our immigrant roots,
(05:36):
whether it's the Irish community, Italian or Cape Verd or
any country. But there's probably fifty or sixty flag raisings
a year. But it was disappointing to know that colleagues
did not support this resolution for many reasons. But I
(05:57):
did think it was important for us to acknowledge October
seventh in one of the reasons. One of the other reasons,
Dan that still stands out is the City Council called
for a cease fire, which I did not sign on,
(06:18):
which I voted against. But in that resolution filed by
several colleagues, I believe in that resolution calling for the ceasefire,
the October seventh terrorist attack was not even mentioned in
the written document, nor the victims or the hostages from
(06:42):
that horrific day. So we went on record as a
body in support of a cease fire without even acknowledging
the horrific terrorist attack on October seventh.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
How many of the other there were thirteen members of
the City Council of Boston. How many of the thirteen
of you who stood with you and voted against that, I.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Believe counselor councilor Murphy did. I don't know who else did.
I don't want to speak for the entire body, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Did we ever vote take vote on that? Do you know? Yes?
Speaker 4 (07:21):
He did vote on that. I believe he voted for
for the cease fire that did not include the October seventh,
horrific terrorist attack mentioned in the written document.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Okay, when we get back, we're going to be joined
by Jeff Robins, Susan columnists for the Boston Herald. He's
also an attorney with one of the major Boston law firms,
mince Levin.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
He is a Democrat.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
He was a representative of the Clinton administration to the
United Nations. Former I'm head of the New England Anti
Defamation League. I know Jeff very well, and he's going
to join us and comment on this controversy as well.
Jeff also does happen to be Jewish. We'll come back
on Nightside as Jeff Robins, Joins and Flynn and myself
(08:18):
talking about I think something that should have been a
total no brainer and that I'm shocked that there's a
controversy over honoring victims, remembering this horrific terrorist attack and
raising the flag of Israel. Back on Nightside, right after
these messages.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World Nightside, studios.
I'm doing Bzy News radio.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We've been talking with Boston City Council at Flynn.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
He filed a resolution with the City Council which my
view should have been a no brainer, to basically raise
the Israeli flag on October seventh in commemoration of the horrific,
horrific terrorist attack committed by Hamas lost October seventh on
the people of Israel, in which over eleven hundred civilians
(09:10):
were killed that day, including forty three who had some
form of American citizenship, either a regular American citizenship or
a dual citizenship. Hostages two hundred and fifty one taken.
Some have been released, some have been found, their bodies
have been found, and many some of them remain inducted
with us IS Jeff Robbins, and Jeff has always been
(09:35):
a tremendous supporter of the State of Israel and someone
who's been on this program with me many times. Jeff,
we talked about this today. You've heard from Council of Flynn.
You've heard what councilor Weber did apparently to just derail this.
I don't understand that. Can you make some sense of
(09:55):
it for us? No?
Speaker 5 (09:57):
I can't. The first thing to say, verse is to
command Counselor Flynn for what shouldn't require a lot of courage,
but actually, in the current environment does require a lot
of courage and moral clarity on his part, and he
is to be congratulated. As for Counselor Weber, I think
(10:19):
that counts to Flynn is being a lot milder than
I would be. His statement in defense of blocking this
very simple, very straightforward, very morally clear, very morally warranted
resolution was complete phony Bologney claptrap. Imagine imagine that in
(10:45):
the year of our Lord twenty twenty four, you can't
actually get a resolution pasted in Boston, of all places,
seat of humanity, condemning the deliberate massacre, that slaughter, the
rape of the blowing apart of civilians, and you can't
(11:05):
get a resolution passed because of the inane position that
this fellow took. One of the things I keep thinking, Dan,
is that those of us and I'm Democrat, as you
pointed out, who have been supportive of folks like Ben Weber,
and I was one of them, have to really rethink
(11:27):
their position in a hurry and say to them, if
you can't bring yourself to condemn this, then we can't
really have anything to do with you. It's a shame
because we agree with you on some stuff, but morally
we just can't have anything to do with you. So
that's my reaction to it. But fundamentally, congratulations to Count
the Flynn for his clarity on this.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Now, if this had gone to a vote in the
City Council, there are some members of the city Council
who really are almost supportive of Hamas. I mean, there
are some very progressive members of the city Council. Do
you think that Ben Webber might have done this to
avoid the embarrassment of other members of the city Count
(12:12):
Is there any way you can give him a little
bit of a little bit of leeway here? I mean,
there are other members of the City Council who clearly
are anti Israel. I mean, and I can name them
my name if I have to, But I think our audience.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Knows who they know who they are, Dan well I
and Jeff it's good to be with you and thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I know.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
If Council Weber did not object to it, other councilors
would have objected to it all as it all it
takes is one person to object, and it kind of
puts it in committee. But even if it was a vote.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
By the way, the committee is sort of the committee
of the round, which means the round file.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Sadly it does.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It doesn't go for running real debate, and obviously we're
running out of time as well, so it basically kills it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's it's his.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Decision to object to it, which which killed this. This
very proper as Jeff says, very clearly, clearly moral position
to take go ahead, and I didn't.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, no, that's correct, that's correct. In it put it
in committee, which basically kills it. I won't even be
able to take it out of committee. It's going to
you know, it went into the Committee of the Whole,
which is cheered by the City Council president, and she
basically agreed with Counselor Weber as well on his points
(13:41):
that he made objecting to my resolution. So I would
not be able to even have a hearing on this issue.
So it's pretty much dead right now.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So what I'm again, Jeff, I I asked you, is
there some way, I mean, do you think that Webber
would trying to run a little political interference for his
other progressive members.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I mean, I'm looking at this politically.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
Well.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I ordinarily I'd like to be at least one third
as gracious as you are, Dan, But not surprisingly, I
don't think I can summon up even that fraction of
your grace. No, I think that this was really just
the kind of sort of intellectual and moral slop that
(14:28):
we have seen far too much of over the last
eleven months by people who hold themselves out as progressive.
And I noted, and you know you were accurate about it.
You describe people who are pro hamas as progressive on
the city council. And that's where it has come to
that people who actually support a genocidal organization bent on
(14:50):
slaughtering people because of their religion can actually gain the
support of people who hold themselves out as progressive, who
look at themselves in the mirror and see progressive, who
tout themselves as being progressive, and who ask for support
from people for being progressive. And I guess the takeaway
is that for people who are involved in political campaigns
(15:12):
and politics in a city like Boston who find that anathema, unfortunately, unfortunately,
it may be time to tell those people you're on
your own we really can't have anything to do with
you on an issue this profound. If you can't find
it in your hearts to condemn, to honor, to mourn
(15:32):
those who were slaughtered on October seventh, boy, I'll tell
you you're on your own.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Jeff Robbins and Ed Flynn, let's go to some phone calls,
so we'll get a few. We'll get at least one
here here before the break. If you'd like to join
the conversation, and I hope you do. Whether you happen
to be Jewish or not, it's really not relevant. Israel
is a marvelous country. It's been an ally of the
(15:58):
US for generations. It is the most democratic country in
the Middle East. And I I don't understand what has
happened here in America, and I'm still trying to figure
it out. Let's go first off to we're gonna get
my my mouse going here.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You're gonna go to Eric in Attleborough. Eric, you are
first turn that radio down.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Rob, get him to turn the radio down, and I
try to sneak him in if he can get ready.
In the meantime, if you like to join the conversation.
Six one, seven, two, ten thirty six nine, one, ten
thirty is is the number. And this is I think
as clear cut an issue as possible. Let me go
back to Eric, hopefully he's got the radio off.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Eric. Welcome. I hope you're ready for us now, Eric,
go right ahead.
Speaker 7 (16:47):
Yep. I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Dan, not at all.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You're all with that city councilor Ed Flynn and Jeff Robbins, who,
amongst other things, as a columnist for the Boston Herald,
one of the finest First Amendment lawyers in ba I
uh sometime professor had prom University, a human rights advocate,
former head of the Anti Defamation.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
League in here in New England, and a resume of
secret of Truth and Justice of one of the most
finest men I know. Go right ahead, yep.
Speaker 7 (17:21):
And I have the most respect. And also like I'm
aware of cognizance to the actual decision making authority. That's
some of these people that these people have this like
when it comes to politics. In one in one sentence,
it's having the actual power to make the decision to
(17:43):
distribute the resources. And I don't know if you remember,
but I called about a month or six weeks back.
I'm pro resistance. I'm like pro Palestinian, like I mean,
I've been I've studied this subject closely. We talked about
the Balfour Declation. But what I want to say is this,
(18:03):
I assume Eric.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Eric, Eric, I'm not going to catch you up. I
just want to make clear.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Okay, you may be pro Palestinian, but if I recall
our conversation, I don't think you would have characterized yourself
as Prohomas.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
I'm not. I'm I'm anti war altogether. But I also
I know that if you take a close look at history,
the Palestinian Liberation Organization and Yaser Arafat were not looked
upon nicely by the Liquid Party, which actually funded the
creation of Hamas as a way of divide and conquer
(18:39):
within uh, the people of Palestine.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
And you know who is I'll give you I'm trying
to give you.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
I want to call it this is Eric.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Let me just finish my comment and then I'll let
you go. I'm not going to cut you off.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
That doesn't happen to people like yourself, who are re
and the responsible. I wanted to clarify if you wanted
to characterize yourself as as as anti Hamas, very clear
clear that there was that was the group that that
that slaughtered innocent civilians.
Speaker 8 (19:13):
But look, I agree that that happened, But this is
what I have to say.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
You have to be a fool down to agree it happened,
and you know, fool, go ahead.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
Well, whether the fact is there's any political energy, gutsto
time money going into putting up a memorial for a
foreign power while this country southern border is broken, that's
actually very disappointing as an American.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So you're going to link it to the southern border,
let me let Jeff.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
No, no, no, you heard what. That's all I said.
I don't want any time, money, political power to be
put towards the decision making of building a memorial for
an event that happened in a different country when our
border is broken. That's your political.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I get your position. I'd like you.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I'd like Jeff Robbins to say hello to you God,
Jeff Hi, Jeff rop Well.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
I think we've come to a pretty bad point where
there are people who are willing to look the other way,
or whitewash or find some way to not mark the
deliberate slaughter of innocence. And by the way, a deliberate
slaughter of innocence by people who knew full well that
(20:23):
they were consigning thousands of Palestinian innocence to death. That
was the point. The point was, it was, It was
the daily double. It was a twofer. You get to
slaughter Israelis and then you get to guarantee the killing
of Palestinian civilians. You're perfectly happy to have them killed.
(20:46):
I mean, Hamas was in order to basically damage Israel.
How corrupt, how morally bankrupt, how loathsome is that? So
when it's a shame, frankly to hear anybody find some
excuse to not, as a matter of basic humaneness and humanitarianism,
to honor, to mark, to mourn the loss unnecessary shouldn't
(21:10):
have happened, wouldn't have happened but for a decision by
a mask to slaughter people. If we can't honor that,
then we're in tough shape, all right.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
And by all means then you know I'm from that framework.
From that, like from the ideological standpoint of memorializing terrible events,
then if you take a look back seventy five years
prior to October seventh, nineteen forty eight, the Knackba, which
was the expulsion of you know of generations of Palestinians
(21:44):
that are now on lands known as like Haifa and
Tel Aviv, And it was that that kind of is
symbolic and the reason why Hamasque chose that date. Yeah,
so you're defend, well, I'm defending the concept of resistance.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
And if you're you're defending, you're defending what they chose
to do on October seventh. And if I'm not going
to cut you off or anything, I give you every opportunity.
Speaker 8 (22:11):
I'm not I'm not defending.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
I'm not defending the use of force against non combatant
non combatant entities.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Well, I gave you earlier, Eric a chance to I
did give you an earlier chance to separate Hamas from
the Palestinians. I think Jeff made the point that the condemned.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
They're cowards. They're hiding in tunnels while Palestinians were dying. Uh,
you know, so, so they don't care about the Palestinians.
They're holding Palestinians as basically human shields. But again, I
gave you that opportunity to get the loss, and you
chose not to take it, which is fine. You that's a.
Speaker 7 (22:51):
Position I can't because because if you look and by
all means like I can't condemn like regil since but.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
What we call we call it terrorism, we call it
a slaughter of innocence. You can call it anything you want.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Eric, what the world knows what happened on October seventh, Eric,
I'm into my newscast. I feel I've giving you a chance,
but I gotta I gotta let you go. Thank you
for being a gentleman and having a conversation.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
And I feel stay line, I do, I do.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Have a nice night.
Speaker 7 (23:23):
God right, good night.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
We'll be back on Night's side with more calls.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
And more conversation with Ed Flynn and Jeff Robbins six
one seven, two five four ten thirty one line there
and six one seven nine three one ten thirty. And
if you would like to agree with Eric, you're welcome
to uh. If you would like to agree with Jeff, Ed, Ed,
Ed Flynn and myself, you were more than welcome to.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
We'll be back on night side right after this.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Let's keep rolling.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
You're gonna go next to Jeff in Waltham. Jeffrey, you
are next on Nightside.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Welcome, Okay, Dan, you know, I don't think I could
disagree more with the last caller.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, just because let's hear, what do you think of
say hi to ed Fords.
Speaker 9 (24:11):
Robins, Fritwal The KNOCKBA was uh preceded and necessitated by
pre existing Jihadis terrorism against Israeli civilians.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
I'm more interested in, uh in talking about.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
The issue at hand, the issue at hand. But you know,
isn't it a sorry state of affairs when American public
institutions are intimidated from showing solidarity with a major ally
in face of barbarism, and not only at the ally,
but Americans themselves.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Well, but it was the politicians who not in that
Flint's case obviously, but uh, a politician who was elected
by the people of Boston. So it's it's the representative
of the representative of that portion of Boston.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'm not sure if he's.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think is he a district councilor I believe that
I don't think he's in any large council.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Correct, Yeah, he's a district council representing Jamaica plane in
West Roxbury area.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
Yeah, but what we saw at the city council isn't
it In principle, doesn't that be token an appeasement process
serving to erode or asserting our values rather than face
down blatant evil.
Speaker 9 (25:29):
I mean, this is.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
Really, really, it's beyond the pay It's absurd. And you
know something, History's tyrants have understood this unprincipled dynamic rather well,
and they've tried to exploit it indefinitely. I would just
say that hopefully our citizens and our leaders have by
now acquired the smartness and the spine to stem these
(25:55):
developments early on.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Well again, I think it's up to people, you know,
who are participating in elections to to make their vote count.
Everybody's worried about the I think the elections are more important,
the ones that are closer to home, whether it's your school, community, city,
council election. Jeff has always appreciated.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
It's all quite important. Okay, Dan, thank you for the
airtime very well.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Thanks for calling, Suzanne, you went next time night Saga
run ahead, Suzanne.
Speaker 10 (26:26):
Thanks Sam for taking by call. I see no reason
why the Israeli flags can't go up. Let's house Jewish,
I am not. It seems to me that when you
take a vow, whatever, it is getting married, parting a
Agians or just raising a flag of our major allies.
(26:50):
Why that should be wrong and condemned by anyone, especially
in great country? Is the uliged say, I gave you
a word solid No you didn't.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
It's not a word salad. You said it, and you
said it well, Susan. I appreciate you taking the time tonight.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Go to Bob in Rain and Bob you're next on
nice side with bost City counselor and Flynn and Jeff Robins.
Speaker 11 (27:20):
Hey, Dan, I really, I really don't uh. I didn't
hear the grasp of the local uh situation, but I
can't believe on the national level at least that you know,
these different candidates are pandering to this, to this group.
(27:41):
And I know they're not pandering to the Hamas, but
they're Palace. You know, they're pandering to the Palestinians, who
you know have been under control of Hamas and to
relate it to you know, actually.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
You know, Bob, I think that they're pandering to Hamas,
but maybe I'm wrong. I want to see if if
Jeff Robbins agrees with that or disagree, And I want
to get influint to comment.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
We're not going to catch you off. I just want
to make sure that that that I'm looking at it.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I think they're pending Tomas gentlemen who wants to take
that Ed.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Or Jeff, I'll respond briefly. I think the American public
at times doesn't really distinguish between Hamas and in Palestine,
and they they don't understand or or they connect the
(28:35):
two of them closely. And it's it's it's it's hurting,
it's hurting the Jewish community. It's hurting Israel when we
are afraid to stand with an American ally, one of
our closest allies in the world, and we're we're almost
intimidated at times to stand with Israel, and even more importantly,
(28:59):
we're even afraid at times to stand with our Jewish
brothers and sisters, our neighbors, and we're isolating and distancing
ourselves from the Jewish community, which is terrible. That's what
I see happening across Boston and across the country. And
I've studied this, not like other people have, but I
(29:21):
do know anti Semitism is alive and well, and it's increasing,
and I've seen it increase significantly over the last six
or seven years.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Jeff Robins, you want to take a shot at that.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Yeah, I mean, somebody mentioned the word spine before a
couple of callers ago, and that's the bottom line. Counselor
Flynn has shown the spine to stand up. I'm sure
he knew that he would get opposition. I'm sure his
inbox is filled with people saying all sorts of things,
and yet he had the spine as the spine to
(29:57):
stand up and say, in fact, you've got to be
you've got to be kidding me. Of course, we're going
to honor the lives of people who are slaughtered. And
the fact that there are so many people in you know,
in political circles who resisted, you know, while holding themselves out,
as we've said, as as human rights leaders, is a
(30:20):
mark of just how diseased unfortunately some on the political
left have become. And in Boston, of course, we do
have that issue.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Bob, Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I just wanted to give both Ed Flynn and Jeff
Robbins a chance to respond to the point you make.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Go right ahead, Bob.
Speaker 11 (30:36):
Yeah, I agree with both of their points of view,
and you shouldn't want support from these people that have
any kind of agreement with Hamas and what's going on,
and you should definitely be you know, you want the
support of the people that are allies, and you know,
(30:57):
the support of the innocent wives that were lost, just
as what happened in nine to eleven. I mean, if
these if these monsters want to attack you know, the
Jewish military, which of course is wrong, as was the
Japanese attack on America back in the day. But at
least they went after American you know, military installations. They
(31:20):
didn't go after innocent people that were just living their
lives and you know, waking up on what would have
been the Sabbath day on that day, or had.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Or had gone to a music a music festival, many
of the exactly yeah, that music festival.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
The point I was trying to.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Make about Palestinians, Palestine and Hamas Hamas basically we were
elected in two thousand and five.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I believe that was the year by the by people.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
In Gossa, which who are Palestinians.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Uh, and now they are suffering the consequences.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
There's never been a second election or an opportunity for
the Palestinians in Gaza to have.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
A second election.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
But Hamas has infiltrated and all and infected and are
infested there with underground tunnels under hospitals, and so they're
holding Palestinian the Palestinian people hostage. And they knew, as
Jeff Robbins just said that they were able to do
whatever they wanted in that terror, terrorism and slaughter on
(32:27):
our Toober seventh, and they knew that the people would
pay the price would not be Hamas. It would be
in many respects someone Hamas, but the people who would
really pay the price would be the innocent Palestinians. So
that was the point I was trying to make. Go ahead, Bob,
I'll give you a final comment.
Speaker 11 (32:42):
Yeah, I just like to say one more thing, and
what what happens when these events happened, Sell them to
these demons or whatever they come out and and and
condemn what has happened. And to that, my only final
statement is I want Prime Minister to finish the job.
(33:04):
I want them to annihilate this group, for for his
own country and for the rest of the world.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
All Right, thank you, Bob, appreciate it. That's a pretty
pretty clear point of view there, if you could. Uh,
We're going to take a break because we are just
a little bit past our break time. I have a
bunch of calls. When we come back and try to
get everybody in quickly. Jim will be first, brook In, Joanne,
We're going to try to get everyone in, so please
(33:32):
bear with me. My guest, Ed Flynn, Boston City Council,
Jeff Robbins, human rights activists, attorney, columnist, and the former
executive director of the Anti Defamation League here and president
of the Anti Defamation League here in New England.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Back on the night Side after this.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
night Side Studios on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Okay, time is of the essence. Let's try to get
everybody in quickly. And I'm going to emphasize quickly. No
more speeches. Jim in Boston, next one, Nice, I go.
Speaker 12 (34:06):
Ahead, Jim, Hey, Dan, A couple of things. One thing
is all these folks that are protesting violence or just hate,
they're forgetting about the great American melting pot and what
America means. And the other point I'd like to make
really quick is the previous violence and taking over at
(34:30):
m I T and I think Harvard, I believe they
traced some of that back to George Soros because some
of those protesters were actually getting paid, so instead of working,
they were protesting.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And I have seen some reports of that. That's very
difficult to nail down, but I've seen reports of that.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
You're correct, so.
Speaker 12 (34:51):
But I guess overall, my biggest point is it is
kind of amazing that these folks, whether they're from the
Middle East, maybe an hour background, or any kind of
minority at all, to discriminate against another minority is is
kind of insane. And I've seen some people from from
my own Jewish background discriminate against other minorities, and it's
(35:14):
it's bizarre in America because that's what the US is.
It's a melting pot.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I agree with you. I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
You reinforced your first point. Thank you to appreciate your
call very much. Let me get to joe In in Norwood.
Joeanne got to be quick for me tonight. Joey In
go ahead, Hey.
Speaker 13 (35:29):
Dan, Dan, remember nineteen eighty three the people that were
killed the Marines and at barracks.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yep, the guy that got today was one of the
Mastermark's all right.
Speaker 13 (35:38):
Thank you to all our push responders. And I love you, okay,
And that's pay for Israel.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Bye, right back at you. That's that's the best call
of the night, right there. Thanks Joeanne.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Brooke is in winhim up in Horse Country.
Speaker 14 (35:52):
I hate to make this call. I hate to make
this call, but I've been over to Israel. I've worked
these flights into.
Speaker 8 (35:59):
Tell for years.
Speaker 14 (36:01):
Yeah, and these attacks that Hamas did were not unprovoked.
And I'm just an American and I've been and have
seen the Palestinian land and how these settlers have encroached
and taken their land. They treat the Palestinians as animals.
They've got each of them twelve kids. They're disgusting, their
inter bread, their albinos, they're freaks. And unless you go
(36:24):
over there and see for yourself the slivers of land
that have been given to the Palestinians and these Jewish settlers,
these Hasidic Jews that go in there and build these
twelve foot walls and take their land from them, this
did not happen unprovoked.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So does that justify what happened? Brooke?
Speaker 8 (36:40):
But you go over to Israel and you will see
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Or does that justify you?
Speaker 8 (36:45):
I'll hang up.
Speaker 14 (36:46):
But that's just the way it is.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
That I'm just to ask you a question. You got
your speech, no problem, thanks Brooke. Thanks for your Callbrooke. Okay,
let me go next to Lewis and Wilmington. Lewis, we're
going to wrap the hour quickly. Go ahead, Lewis.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
Yeah, I think the problem is that we're not listening
to each other. You won't let these people say that, Yeah,
it's okay what happened to them, that's a horrible want.
Those soldiers were losers that went in there to Israel
and did what they did. But that's the reality. Hash
reality of war.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Started the conversation Lewis about I.
Speaker 8 (37:21):
Don't want to see the monument all over here. That's
what it's about.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Enjoying the conversation, Lewis, if you'd stick with me here
for a second. Does that mean you think that that
this resolution should not have been passed and this this
flag Israel flag should not be raised on City Hall plaza.
Speaker 8 (37:38):
I don't think Israel should be wanting to raise its
flag at its moment in Boston when.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
It's Israel. Lewis, you want to.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Lewis, if you're not responsive to the questions It's tough
to have a conversation when someone was not response to
the questions. Should the city of Boston proudly raised an
Israeli flagg yes or no flags?
Speaker 8 (38:03):
Did you shut me up and not listen to me
and continue talking over me?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
No, I was trying to talk to you and ask
you a question. You were talking over me, and now
I will shut you. Watch you got the plank, Rob.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Please my patients. My patients ran out with Lewis. I'm
sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Lewis.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I hope you can swim home. Jeff Robbins unbelievable. Ed Flynn, Ed,
thank you for your efforts on this. Let me give
you a final quick word. I want to give Jeff
a final quick word. Go ahead, and you can final
quick word.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Dan, it was good to be with you. It was
good to be with Jeff as well. I think we
have to work together, respect each other, but also recognize
that the Jewish community, our brothers and sisters, they deserve
respect and dignity. It's time to stand with them, especially
during these difficult and challenging times.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Well said Jeff, give you a final word, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Yeah, Just hats off to both of you, both of you, gentlemen,
for the moral clarity and the guts and the resilience
and the determination and the leadership that you each, in
your respective fears, demonstrate on this issue and on other issues.
We're lucky to have you in the community.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I wish I had been able to incorporate both both
of you into the conversations. There were some people who
just wanted to make statements, and that's really not what
we do on nightside. We try to get a conversation
going and just to ignore questions or not even want
to respond to them. Eric, who probably was the toughest
call of the night, at least somewhat engaged in the
(39:46):
conversation as opposed to the last couple of callers. So again,
long live the state of Israel as far as I'm concerned, Jeff,
as always, Thank you, Ed Flynn, thank you as well.
Please say hi to your mom and dad for all us.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Okay, thank you gentlemen, Thank you Dan, thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Talk to you guys soon we come back. We're going
to take up another issue of some controversy, and we
we welcome you to join us in this. We're going
to talk about the latest chapter in the Karen reid
SOAKA
It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBSY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Al As we are moving to the nine o'clock hour,
and I have a story that has not gotten a
lot of publicity.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's been in I think at least the Herald, if
maybe not the Globe.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Yet we'll see. I'm delighted to be joined by two people. First,
I'm going to introduce them separately. First of all, Boston
City Councilor Ed Flynn.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Ed Flynn is somebody who is.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Very supportive of the state of Israel, very supportive of Israelis,
and who a nation that that suffered an incredible attack,
a terrorist attack last October seventh.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Ed Flynn, Welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I'm doing well. Dan. It's great to be with you.
It's great to be with the audience as well.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Dan, thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You this, I guess, in the last few days filed
what seems to me to be a pretty reasonable resolution
with the City Council which would honor the lives lost
and those held hostage following the October seventh terrorist attack
on Israel. You don't need to read it, but I
(01:17):
have it in front of me. Just tell me about
the highlights. There's only three paragraphs to whereas clauses, and
then an order which you hoped the City Council would approve.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Just give us the.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Cliff notes version so we can talk a little bit
more about what your motive is.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Thank you, Dan. The resolution I filed before the City Council.
As we approach October seventh, which would be the one
year anniversary of the horrific terrorist attack on Israel, we
would recognize that day and remember the victims, the survivors,
(02:06):
but also those that are still held hostage, asking for
their release, but really remembering, remembering this day, remembering the pain,
the suffering that the Jewish community has gone through, and
to stand in solidarity with them during this difficult time.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
And what you wanted to do was to have a
resolution which would again condemn the acts of terrorism and
call for the release of the hostages. I forgot that
there were forty three people who either were dual citizens
or full American citizens who died that day. And there
(02:50):
are still, as you know, as I think everyone knows,
there are still they believe, they're not sure. Upwards are
perhaps ninety seven hostages that are still somehow alive, including
seven Americans, and you also wanted that in recognition of
the first anniversary of this horrific terrorist attack on an
ally Israel, he wanted the City Council to have the
(03:14):
flag of the State of Israel raised on the third
flag pole on the City Hall Plaza in place of
the City of Boston flag. All sounds perfectly fine, but
apparently one member of the City Council took objection. Took
exception of this, the City Councilor Weber, who as Benjamin Webber.
(03:39):
We invited him to join us tonight, he was unable to,
said that he had a conflict who he has a
commitment this evening, and he released a statement saying that
Councilor Webber connected with a prominent Jewish organizer who reached
out before the council meeting saying he was worried about
(03:59):
raising the Israeli flag on City Hall Plaza as a
way to honor the victims. Council of Webber wants to
come together to create a space for.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
People to mourn.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He looks forward to working with Council of Flynn and
his colleagues to make that happen. Because of his objection
and he happens to be the one Jewish member of
the city council. Because of his objection your resolution, it
wasn't technically tabled, but it was basically sent to a
committee to die. Can you tell us what your reaction
(04:31):
to that was. It seems that I don't see what's
wrong with your resolution, and I certainly don't understand why
Council of Webber would take an exception. I would assume
that he, first and foremost would be very supportive of it,
you know, as the only Jewish member of the city council.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
It is just to back up a little bit.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
If you do want to raise a flag on City
Hall Plaza, you do have to receive permission, and one
of the ways you can receive permission is through a resolution,
and that's one of the reasons I did file the resolution.
In order to fly a flag at City Hall Plaza,
(05:14):
you have to go through the through the process. And
I attend almost all flag raisings, and they're about celebrating
and recognizing most of the time, celebrating and recognizing the
people of a country that came here, celebrating our immigrant roots,
(05:36):
whether it's the Irish community, Italian or Cape Verd or
any country. But there's probably fifty or sixty flag raisings
a year. But it was disappointing to know that colleagues
did not support this resolution for many reasons. But I
(05:57):
did think it was important for us to acknowledge October
seventh in one of the reasons. One of the other reasons,
Dan that still stands out is the City Council called
for a cease fire, which I did not sign on,
(06:18):
which I voted against. But in that resolution filed by
several colleagues, I believe in that resolution calling for the ceasefire,
the October seventh terrorist attack was not even mentioned in
the written document, nor the victims or the hostages from
(06:42):
that horrific day. So we went on record as a
body in support of a cease fire without even acknowledging
the horrific terrorist attack on October seventh.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
How many of the other there were thirteen members of
the City Council of Boston. How many of the thirteen
of you who stood with you and voted against that, I.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Believe counselor councilor Murphy did. I don't know who else did.
I don't want to speak for the entire body, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Did we ever vote take vote on that? Do you know? Yes?
Speaker 4 (07:21):
He did vote on that. I believe he voted for
for the cease fire that did not include the October seventh,
horrific terrorist attack mentioned in the written document.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Okay, when we get back, we're going to be joined
by Jeff Robins, Susan columnists for the Boston Herald. He's
also an attorney with one of the major Boston law firms,
mince Levin.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
He is a Democrat.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
He was a representative of the Clinton administration to the
United Nations. Former I'm head of the New England Anti
Defamation League. I know Jeff very well, and he's going
to join us and comment on this controversy as well.
Jeff also does happen to be Jewish. We'll come back
on Nightside as Jeff Robins, Joins and Flynn and myself
(08:18):
talking about I think something that should have been a
total no brainer and that I'm shocked that there's a
controversy over honoring victims, remembering this horrific terrorist attack and
raising the flag of Israel. Back on Nightside, right after
these messages.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World Nightside, studios.
I'm doing Bzy News radio.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We've been talking with Boston City Council at Flynn.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
He filed a resolution with the City Council which my
view should have been a no brainer, to basically raise
the Israeli flag on October seventh in commemoration of the horrific,
horrific terrorist attack committed by Hamas lost October seventh on
the people of Israel, in which over eleven hundred civilians
(09:10):
were killed that day, including forty three who had some
form of American citizenship, either a regular American citizenship or
a dual citizenship. Hostages two hundred and fifty one taken.
Some have been released, some have been found, their bodies
have been found, and many some of them remain inducted
with us IS Jeff Robbins, and Jeff has always been
(09:35):
a tremendous supporter of the State of Israel and someone
who's been on this program with me many times. Jeff,
we talked about this today. You've heard from Council of Flynn.
You've heard what councilor Weber did apparently to just derail this.
I don't understand that. Can you make some sense of
(09:55):
it for us? No?
Speaker 5 (09:57):
I can't. The first thing to say, verse is to
command Counselor Flynn for what shouldn't require a lot of courage,
but actually, in the current environment does require a lot
of courage and moral clarity on his part, and he
is to be congratulated. As for Counselor Weber, I think
(10:19):
that counts to Flynn is being a lot milder than
I would be. His statement in defense of blocking this
very simple, very straightforward, very morally clear, very morally warranted
resolution was complete phony Bologney claptrap. Imagine imagine that in
(10:45):
the year of our Lord twenty twenty four, you can't
actually get a resolution pasted in Boston, of all places,
seat of humanity, condemning the deliberate massacre, that slaughter, the
rape of the blowing apart of civilians, and you can't
(11:05):
get a resolution passed because of the inane position that
this fellow took. One of the things I keep thinking, Dan,
is that those of us and I'm Democrat, as you
pointed out, who have been supportive of folks like Ben Weber,
and I was one of them, have to really rethink
(11:27):
their position in a hurry and say to them, if
you can't bring yourself to condemn this, then we can't
really have anything to do with you. It's a shame
because we agree with you on some stuff, but morally
we just can't have anything to do with you. So
that's my reaction to it. But fundamentally, congratulations to Count
the Flynn for his clarity on this.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Now, if this had gone to a vote in the
City Council, there are some members of the city Council
who really are almost supportive of Hamas. I mean, there
are some very progressive members of the city Council. Do
you think that Ben Webber might have done this to
avoid the embarrassment of other members of the city Count
(12:12):
Is there any way you can give him a little
bit of a little bit of leeway here? I mean,
there are other members of the City Council who clearly
are anti Israel. I mean, and I can name them
my name if I have to, But I think our audience.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Knows who they know who they are, Dan well I
and Jeff it's good to be with you and thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I know.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
If Council Weber did not object to it, other councilors
would have objected to it all as it all it
takes is one person to object, and it kind of
puts it in committee. But even if it was a vote.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
By the way, the committee is sort of the committee
of the round, which means the round file.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Sadly it does.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It doesn't go for running real debate, and obviously we're
running out of time as well, so it basically kills it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
It's it's his.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Decision to object to it, which which killed this. This
very proper as Jeff says, very clearly, clearly moral position
to take go ahead, and I didn't.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, no, that's correct, that's correct. In it put it
in committee, which basically kills it. I won't even be
able to take it out of committee. It's going to
you know, it went into the Committee of the Whole,
which is cheered by the City Council president, and she
basically agreed with Counselor Weber as well on his points
(13:41):
that he made objecting to my resolution. So I would
not be able to even have a hearing on this issue.
So it's pretty much dead right now.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So what I'm again, Jeff, I I asked you, is
there some way, I mean, do you think that Webber
would trying to run a little political interference for his
other progressive members.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I mean, I'm looking at this politically.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
Well.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I ordinarily I'd like to be at least one third
as gracious as you are, Dan, But not surprisingly, I
don't think I can summon up even that fraction of
your grace. No, I think that this was really just
the kind of sort of intellectual and moral slop that
(14:28):
we have seen far too much of over the last
eleven months by people who hold themselves out as progressive.
And I noted, and you know you were accurate about it.
You describe people who are pro hamas as progressive on
the city council. And that's where it has come to
that people who actually support a genocidal organization bent on
(14:50):
slaughtering people because of their religion can actually gain the
support of people who hold themselves out as progressive, who
look at themselves in the mirror and see progressive, who
tout themselves as being progressive, and who ask for support
from people for being progressive. And I guess the takeaway
is that for people who are involved in political campaigns
(15:12):
and politics in a city like Boston who find that anathema, unfortunately, unfortunately,
it may be time to tell those people you're on
your own we really can't have anything to do with
you on an issue this profound. If you can't find
it in your hearts to condemn, to honor, to mourn
(15:32):
those who were slaughtered on October seventh, boy, I'll tell
you you're on your own.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Jeff Robbins and Ed Flynn, let's go to some phone calls,
so we'll get a few. We'll get at least one
here here before the break. If you'd like to join
the conversation, and I hope you do. Whether you happen
to be Jewish or not, it's really not relevant. Israel
is a marvelous country. It's been an ally of the
(15:58):
US for generations. It is the most democratic country in
the Middle East. And I I don't understand what has
happened here in America, and I'm still trying to figure
it out. Let's go first off to we're gonna get
my my mouse going here.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
You're gonna go to Eric in Attleborough. Eric, you are
first turn that radio down.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Rob, get him to turn the radio down, and I
try to sneak him in if he can get ready.
In the meantime, if you like to join the conversation.
Six one, seven, two, ten thirty six nine, one, ten
thirty is is the number. And this is I think
as clear cut an issue as possible. Let me go
back to Eric, hopefully he's got the radio off.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Eric. Welcome. I hope you're ready for us now, Eric,
go right ahead.
Speaker 7 (16:47):
Yep. I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Dan, not at all.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You're all with that city councilor Ed Flynn and Jeff Robbins, who,
amongst other things, as a columnist for the Boston Herald,
one of the finest First Amendment lawyers in ba I
uh sometime professor had prom University, a human rights advocate,
former head of the Anti Defamation.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
League in here in New England, and a resume of
secret of Truth and Justice of one of the most
finest men I know. Go right ahead, yep.
Speaker 7 (17:21):
And I have the most respect. And also like I'm
aware of cognizance to the actual decision making authority. That's
some of these people that these people have this like
when it comes to politics. In one in one sentence,
it's having the actual power to make the decision to
(17:43):
distribute the resources. And I don't know if you remember,
but I called about a month or six weeks back.
I'm pro resistance. I'm like pro Palestinian, like I mean,
I've been I've studied this subject closely. We talked about
the Balfour Declation. But what I want to say is this,
(18:03):
I assume Eric.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Eric, Eric, I'm not going to catch you up. I
just want to make clear.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Okay, you may be pro Palestinian, but if I recall
our conversation, I don't think you would have characterized yourself
as Prohomas.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
I'm not. I'm I'm anti war altogether. But I also
I know that if you take a close look at history,
the Palestinian Liberation Organization and Yaser Arafat were not looked
upon nicely by the Liquid Party, which actually funded the
creation of Hamas as a way of divide and conquer
(18:39):
within uh, the people of Palestine.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
And you know who is I'll give you I'm trying
to give you.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
I want to call it this is Eric.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Let me just finish my comment and then I'll let
you go. I'm not going to cut you off.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
That doesn't happen to people like yourself, who are re
and the responsible. I wanted to clarify if you wanted
to characterize yourself as as as anti Hamas, very clear
clear that there was that was the group that that
that slaughtered innocent civilians.
Speaker 8 (19:13):
But look, I agree that that happened, But this is
what I have to say.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
You have to be a fool down to agree it happened,
and you know, fool, go ahead.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
Well, whether the fact is there's any political energy, gutsto
time money going into putting up a memorial for a
foreign power while this country southern border is broken, that's
actually very disappointing as an American.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So you're going to link it to the southern border,
let me let Jeff.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
No, no, no, you heard what. That's all I said.
I don't want any time, money, political power to be
put towards the decision making of building a memorial for
an event that happened in a different country when our
border is broken. That's your political.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I get your position. I'd like you.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I'd like Jeff Robbins to say hello to you God,
Jeff Hi, Jeff rop Well.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
I think we've come to a pretty bad point where
there are people who are willing to look the other way,
or whitewash or find some way to not mark the
deliberate slaughter of innocence. And by the way, a deliberate
slaughter of innocence by people who knew full well that
(20:23):
they were consigning thousands of Palestinian innocence to death. That
was the point. The point was, it was, It was
the daily double. It was a twofer. You get to
slaughter Israelis and then you get to guarantee the killing
of Palestinian civilians. You're perfectly happy to have them killed.
(20:46):
I mean, Hamas was in order to basically damage Israel.
How corrupt, how morally bankrupt, how loathsome is that? So
when it's a shame, frankly to hear anybody find some
excuse to not, as a matter of basic humaneness and humanitarianism,
to honor, to mark, to mourn the loss unnecessary shouldn't
(21:10):
have happened, wouldn't have happened but for a decision by
a mask to slaughter people. If we can't honor that,
then we're in tough shape, all right.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
And by all means then you know I'm from that framework.
From that, like from the ideological standpoint of memorializing terrible events,
then if you take a look back seventy five years
prior to October seventh, nineteen forty eight, the Knackba, which
was the expulsion of you know of generations of Palestinians
(21:44):
that are now on lands known as like Haifa and
Tel Aviv, And it was that that kind of is
symbolic and the reason why Hamasque chose that date. Yeah,
so you're defend, well, I'm defending the concept of resistance.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
And if you're you're defending, you're defending what they chose
to do on October seventh. And if I'm not going
to cut you off or anything, I give you every opportunity.
Speaker 8 (22:11):
I'm not I'm not defending.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
I'm not defending the use of force against non combatant
non combatant entities.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Well, I gave you earlier, Eric a chance to I
did give you an earlier chance to separate Hamas from
the Palestinians. I think Jeff made the point that the condemned.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
They're cowards. They're hiding in tunnels while Palestinians were dying. Uh,
you know, so, so they don't care about the Palestinians.
They're holding Palestinians as basically human shields. But again, I
gave you that opportunity to get the loss, and you
chose not to take it, which is fine. You that's a.
Speaker 7 (22:51):
Position I can't because because if you look and by
all means like I can't condemn like regil since but.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
What we call we call it terrorism, we call it
a slaughter of innocence. You can call it anything you want.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Eric, what the world knows what happened on October seventh, Eric,
I'm into my newscast. I feel I've giving you a chance,
but I gotta I gotta let you go. Thank you
for being a gentleman and having a conversation.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
And I feel stay line, I do, I do.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Have a nice night.
Speaker 7 (23:23):
God right, good night.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
We'll be back on Night's side with more calls.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
And more conversation with Ed Flynn and Jeff Robbins six
one seven, two five four ten thirty one line there
and six one seven nine three one ten thirty. And
if you would like to agree with Eric, you're welcome
to uh. If you would like to agree with Jeff, Ed, Ed,
Ed Flynn and myself, you were more than welcome to.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
We'll be back on night side right after this.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Let's keep rolling.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
You're gonna go next to Jeff in Waltham. Jeffrey, you
are next on Nightside.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Welcome, Okay, Dan, you know, I don't think I could
disagree more with the last caller.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, just because let's hear, what do you think of
say hi to ed Fords.
Speaker 9 (24:11):
Robins, Fritwal The KNOCKBA was uh preceded and necessitated by
pre existing Jihadis terrorism against Israeli civilians.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
I'm more interested in, uh in talking about.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
The issue at hand, the issue at hand. But you know,
isn't it a sorry state of affairs when American public
institutions are intimidated from showing solidarity with a major ally
in face of barbarism, and not only at the ally,
but Americans themselves.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Well, but it was the politicians who not in that
Flint's case obviously, but uh, a politician who was elected
by the people of Boston. So it's it's the representative
of the representative of that portion of Boston.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'm not sure if he's.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think is he a district councilor I believe that
I don't think he's in any large council.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Correct, Yeah, he's a district council representing Jamaica plane in
West Roxbury area.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
Yeah, but what we saw at the city council isn't
it In principle, doesn't that be token an appeasement process
serving to erode or asserting our values rather than face
down blatant evil.
Speaker 9 (25:29):
I mean, this is.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
Really, really, it's beyond the pay It's absurd. And you
know something, History's tyrants have understood this unprincipled dynamic rather well,
and they've tried to exploit it indefinitely. I would just
say that hopefully our citizens and our leaders have by
now acquired the smartness and the spine to stem these
(25:55):
developments early on.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Well again, I think it's up to people, you know,
who are participating in elections to to make their vote count.
Everybody's worried about the I think the elections are more important,
the ones that are closer to home, whether it's your school, community, city,
council election. Jeff has always appreciated.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
It's all quite important. Okay, Dan, thank you for the
airtime very well.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Thanks for calling, Suzanne, you went next time night Saga
run ahead, Suzanne.
Speaker 10 (26:26):
Thanks Sam for taking by call. I see no reason
why the Israeli flags can't go up. Let's house Jewish,
I am not. It seems to me that when you
take a vow, whatever, it is getting married, parting a
Agians or just raising a flag of our major allies.
(26:50):
Why that should be wrong and condemned by anyone, especially
in great country? Is the uliged say, I gave you
a word solid No you didn't.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
It's not a word salad. You said it, and you
said it well, Susan. I appreciate you taking the time tonight.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Go to Bob in Rain and Bob you're next on
nice side with bost City counselor and Flynn and Jeff Robins.
Speaker 11 (27:20):
Hey, Dan, I really, I really don't uh. I didn't
hear the grasp of the local uh situation, but I
can't believe on the national level at least that you know,
these different candidates are pandering to this, to this group.
(27:41):
And I know they're not pandering to the Hamas, but
they're Palace. You know, they're pandering to the Palestinians, who
you know have been under control of Hamas and to
relate it to you know, actually.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
You know, Bob, I think that they're pandering to Hamas,
but maybe I'm wrong. I want to see if if
Jeff Robbins agrees with that or disagree, And I want
to get influint to comment.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
We're not going to catch you off. I just want
to make sure that that that I'm looking at it.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I think they're pending Tomas gentlemen who wants to take
that Ed.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Or Jeff, I'll respond briefly. I think the American public
at times doesn't really distinguish between Hamas and in Palestine,
and they they don't understand or or they connect the
(28:35):
two of them closely. And it's it's it's it's hurting,
it's hurting the Jewish community. It's hurting Israel when we
are afraid to stand with an American ally, one of
our closest allies in the world, and we're we're almost
intimidated at times to stand with Israel, and even more importantly,
(28:59):
we're even afraid at times to stand with our Jewish
brothers and sisters, our neighbors, and we're isolating and distancing
ourselves from the Jewish community, which is terrible. That's what
I see happening across Boston and across the country. And
I've studied this, not like other people have, but I
(29:21):
do know anti Semitism is alive and well, and it's increasing,
and I've seen it increase significantly over the last six
or seven years.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Jeff Robins, you want to take a shot at that.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Yeah, I mean, somebody mentioned the word spine before a
couple of callers ago, and that's the bottom line. Counselor
Flynn has shown the spine to stand up. I'm sure
he knew that he would get opposition. I'm sure his
inbox is filled with people saying all sorts of things,
and yet he had the spine as the spine to
(29:57):
stand up and say, in fact, you've got to be
you've got to be kidding me. Of course, we're going
to honor the lives of people who are slaughtered. And
the fact that there are so many people in you know,
in political circles who resisted, you know, while holding themselves out,
as we've said, as as human rights leaders, is a
(30:20):
mark of just how diseased unfortunately some on the political
left have become. And in Boston, of course, we do
have that issue.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Bob, Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I just wanted to give both Ed Flynn and Jeff
Robbins a chance to respond to the point you make.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Go right ahead, Bob.
Speaker 11 (30:36):
Yeah, I agree with both of their points of view,
and you shouldn't want support from these people that have
any kind of agreement with Hamas and what's going on,
and you should definitely be you know, you want the
support of the people that are allies, and you know,
(30:57):
the support of the innocent wives that were lost, just
as what happened in nine to eleven. I mean, if
these if these monsters want to attack you know, the
Jewish military, which of course is wrong, as was the
Japanese attack on America back in the day. But at
least they went after American you know, military installations. They
(31:20):
didn't go after innocent people that were just living their
lives and you know, waking up on what would have
been the Sabbath day on that day, or had.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Or had gone to a music a music festival, many
of the exactly yeah, that music festival.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
The point I was trying to.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Make about Palestinians, Palestine and Hamas Hamas basically we were
elected in two thousand and five.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I believe that was the year by the by people.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
In Gossa, which who are Palestinians.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Uh, and now they are suffering the consequences.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
There's never been a second election or an opportunity for
the Palestinians in Gaza to have.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
A second election.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
But Hamas has infiltrated and all and infected and are
infested there with underground tunnels under hospitals, and so they're
holding Palestinian the Palestinian people hostage. And they knew, as
Jeff Robbins just said that they were able to do
whatever they wanted in that terror, terrorism and slaughter on
(32:27):
our Toober seventh, and they knew that the people would
pay the price would not be Hamas. It would be
in many respects someone Hamas, but the people who would
really pay the price would be the innocent Palestinians. So
that was the point I was trying to make. Go ahead, Bob,
I'll give you a final comment.
Speaker 11 (32:42):
Yeah, I just like to say one more thing, and
what what happens when these events happened, Sell them to
these demons or whatever they come out and and and
condemn what has happened. And to that, my only final
statement is I want Prime Minister to finish the job.
(33:04):
I want them to annihilate this group, for for his
own country and for the rest of the world.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
All Right, thank you, Bob, appreciate it. That's a pretty
pretty clear point of view there, if you could. Uh,
We're going to take a break because we are just
a little bit past our break time. I have a
bunch of calls. When we come back and try to
get everybody in quickly. Jim will be first, brook In, Joanne,
We're going to try to get everyone in, so please
(33:32):
bear with me. My guest, Ed Flynn, Boston City Council,
Jeff Robbins, human rights activists, attorney, columnist, and the former
executive director of the Anti Defamation League here and president
of the Anti Defamation League here in New England.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Back on the night Side after this.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
night Side Studios on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Okay, time is of the essence. Let's try to get
everybody in quickly. And I'm going to emphasize quickly. No
more speeches. Jim in Boston, next one, Nice, I go.
Speaker 12 (34:06):
Ahead, Jim, Hey, Dan, A couple of things. One thing
is all these folks that are protesting violence or just hate,
they're forgetting about the great American melting pot and what
America means. And the other point I'd like to make
really quick is the previous violence and taking over at
(34:30):
m I T and I think Harvard, I believe they
traced some of that back to George Soros because some
of those protesters were actually getting paid, so instead of working,
they were protesting.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And I have seen some reports of that. That's very
difficult to nail down, but I've seen reports of that.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
You're correct, so.
Speaker 12 (34:51):
But I guess overall, my biggest point is it is
kind of amazing that these folks, whether they're from the
Middle East, maybe an hour background, or any kind of
minority at all, to discriminate against another minority is is
kind of insane. And I've seen some people from from
my own Jewish background discriminate against other minorities, and it's
(35:14):
it's bizarre in America because that's what the US is.
It's a melting pot.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I agree with you. I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
You reinforced your first point. Thank you to appreciate your
call very much. Let me get to joe In in Norwood.
Joeanne got to be quick for me tonight. Joey In
go ahead, Hey.
Speaker 13 (35:29):
Dan, Dan, remember nineteen eighty three the people that were
killed the Marines and at barracks.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yep, the guy that got today was one of the
Mastermark's all right.
Speaker 13 (35:38):
Thank you to all our push responders. And I love you, okay,
And that's pay for Israel.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Bye, right back at you. That's that's the best call
of the night, right there. Thanks Joeanne.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Brooke is in winhim up in Horse Country.
Speaker 14 (35:52):
I hate to make this call. I hate to make
this call, but I've been over to Israel. I've worked
these flights into.
Speaker 8 (35:59):
Tell for years.
Speaker 14 (36:01):
Yeah, and these attacks that Hamas did were not unprovoked.
And I'm just an American and I've been and have
seen the Palestinian land and how these settlers have encroached
and taken their land. They treat the Palestinians as animals.
They've got each of them twelve kids. They're disgusting, their
inter bread, their albinos, they're freaks. And unless you go
(36:24):
over there and see for yourself the slivers of land
that have been given to the Palestinians and these Jewish settlers,
these Hasidic Jews that go in there and build these
twelve foot walls and take their land from them, this
did not happen unprovoked.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So does that justify what happened? Brooke?
Speaker 8 (36:40):
But you go over to Israel and you will see
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Or does that justify you?
Speaker 8 (36:45):
I'll hang up.
Speaker 14 (36:46):
But that's just the way it is.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
That I'm just to ask you a question. You got
your speech, no problem, thanks Brooke. Thanks for your Callbrooke. Okay,
let me go next to Lewis and Wilmington. Lewis, we're
going to wrap the hour quickly. Go ahead, Lewis.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
Yeah, I think the problem is that we're not listening
to each other. You won't let these people say that, Yeah,
it's okay what happened to them, that's a horrible want.
Those soldiers were losers that went in there to Israel
and did what they did. But that's the reality. Hash
reality of war.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Started the conversation Lewis about I.
Speaker 8 (37:21):
Don't want to see the monument all over here. That's
what it's about.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Enjoying the conversation, Lewis, if you'd stick with me here
for a second. Does that mean you think that that
this resolution should not have been passed and this this
flag Israel flag should not be raised on City Hall plaza.
Speaker 8 (37:38):
I don't think Israel should be wanting to raise its
flag at its moment in Boston when.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
It's Israel. Lewis, you want to.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Lewis, if you're not responsive to the questions It's tough
to have a conversation when someone was not response to
the questions. Should the city of Boston proudly raised an
Israeli flagg yes or no flags?
Speaker 8 (38:03):
Did you shut me up and not listen to me
and continue talking over me?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
No, I was trying to talk to you and ask
you a question. You were talking over me, and now
I will shut you. Watch you got the plank, Rob.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Please my patients. My patients ran out with Lewis. I'm
sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Lewis.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I hope you can swim home. Jeff Robbins unbelievable. Ed Flynn, Ed,
thank you for your efforts on this. Let me give
you a final quick word. I want to give Jeff
a final quick word. Go ahead, and you can final
quick word.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Dan, it was good to be with you. It was
good to be with Jeff as well. I think we
have to work together, respect each other, but also recognize
that the Jewish community, our brothers and sisters, they deserve
respect and dignity. It's time to stand with them, especially
during these difficult and challenging times.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Well said Jeff, give you a final word, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Yeah, Just hats off to both of you, both of you, gentlemen,
for the moral clarity and the guts and the resilience
and the determination and the leadership that you each, in
your respective fears, demonstrate on this issue and on other issues.
We're lucky to have you in the community.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I wish I had been able to incorporate both both
of you into the conversations. There were some people who
just wanted to make statements, and that's really not what
we do on nightside. We try to get a conversation
going and just to ignore questions or not even want
to respond to them. Eric, who probably was the toughest
call of the night, at least somewhat engaged in the
(39:46):
conversation as opposed to the last couple of callers. So again,
long live the state of Israel as far as I'm concerned, Jeff,
as always, Thank you, Ed Flynn, thank you as well.
Please say hi to your mom and dad for all us.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Okay, thank you gentlemen, Thank you Dan, thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Talk to you guys soon we come back. We're going
to take up another issue of some controversy, and we
we welcome you to join us in this. We're going
to talk about the latest chapter in the Karen reid
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