August 26, 2025 • 39 mins
Bradley Jay Fills in on NightSide
While marijuana is legal in Massachusetts, it’s not legal everywhere across the United States. Studies show that there are some medicinal benefits of marijuana and many use marijuana to treat various ailments like depression and anxiety, epilepsy, chronic pain and more. Should cannabis be federally legal? Dr. Peter Grinspoon, a primary care physician at Massachusetts General Hospital as well as an instructor at Harvard Medical School has 25 years of experience specializing in cannabis medicine joined Bradley to talk about the pros and cons of cannabis.
While marijuana is legal in Massachusetts, it’s not legal everywhere across the United States. Studies show that there are some medicinal benefits of marijuana and many use marijuana to treat various ailments like depression and anxiety, epilepsy, chronic pain and more. Should cannabis be federally legal? Dr. Peter Grinspoon, a primary care physician at Massachusetts General Hospital as well as an instructor at Harvard Medical School has 25 years of experience specializing in cannabis medicine joined Bradley to talk about the pros and cons of cannabis.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray On. You Beazy Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Nightside on Bradley Jay for Dan. Let me
ask you a question. Are you glad that marijuana was
legalized in Massachusetts? Have you noticed any changes in the
culture since legalization? Did the sky fall? Did it fall
a little bit? Did you notice anything? Would you like
to see it decriminalized federally? Legalized federally? Maybe you started
(00:27):
using cannabis products since it's become legal in Massachusetts, or
maybe you're cannabis curious. Maybe you have a malady that
you've heard might be helped by cannabis instead of some
big pharma product. It might be less invasive, might be better.
Who do you ask? Well, you ask our guest tonight,
Peter Grinspoon, MD. He's a primary care physician at mass
(00:50):
General Hospital and an instructor in medicine at Harvard Medical School.
A lot of experience, twenty five years of experience, specializing
in cannabis medicine. He's been on the for a while
popular speaker National Lee on national media, and he talks
about topics such as cannabis addiction in general, not necessarily
(01:11):
cannabis addiction education patient certification in Massachusetts only, and he's
an addiction coach offering extensive support to folks and families
at all ages, all stages of the addiction and recovery process.
Welcome to the program.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Thank you for coming in, Thanks for having me, glad
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, we've talked to you before and you're so great
and I wanted to have you back.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Tell me a little bit more about your practice and
how it's unique.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, my practice is unique in that I've been involved
with medical cannabis for twenty five years. Not that many
doctors can say that. I don't know if any doctors
can say that. Actually, when I was growing up, my
brother Danny developed leukemia when I was eight years old.
He was sixteen, and he was really really sick with
the chemotherapy, and my parents in the early nineteen seventies
(02:00):
bought him cannabis illegally, and it was amazing the difference
to cannabis made to my brother Danny. During the last
year of his life. He was able to hold down food.
Most importantly to us, he was able to play with
his little brothers and hang out with the family. So
I knew from a very early age that medical cannabis
isn't a cure all but works for certain conditions. So
I've been studying it and practicing it for the last
(02:20):
twenty five years, and I think that gives me a
pretty broad background in medical cannabis.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, I do you suppose it was demonized for so
long and still is in some areas of the country,
some states very nearby.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, there's a lot of ignorance and nonsense about cannabis.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's a medicine,
just like any other medicine. It helps some people, it
doesn't help other people. It has some side effects, and
it has a lot of benefits. It's just a tool
that doctors and nurses can use in their toolbox. The
history of the War on drugs, in the War on
cannabis is just ugly, and that's a whole nother conversation.
(02:53):
A lot of it was pure racism, a lot of
the same racism we see today at the southern border.
You know, these crazy local Mexicans were smoking the local weed.
A lot of it was targeted against blacks. Throughout the
whole War on drugs, Blacks and whites used cannabis at
about the same rates, and blacks have been arrested at
about four times the rate that white people have. So
(03:15):
it's really been the war on drugs and a lot
of nonsense coming not only from the US government but
unfortunately for a long time, from the medical community.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
It's interesting that I'm not the first to point this
out that the government used to put you in jail,
and now the government is your dealer.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Kind of Well, it's true.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, the government's not your dealer. I mean they're
private enterprises, but it is governmentally overseen.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, it goes back and forth. Remember, cannabis was a
legal medicine in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen
hundreds in the United States. There were more than one
hundred medical papers written about medical cannabis. Doctors loved it,
and it was commonly prescribed. Then prohibition ended and we
had this whole law enforcement that needed something else to
go after. So they went after cannabis and locked it
(04:03):
away for seventy years, and the medical community really changed
against it, and now they're coming back in favor of it.
And it's true, the government is very confused and divided
about cannabis. On the one hand, they say it's Schedule
one drug, like other drugs like LSD and psilocybal, both
of which of course had heeroetical utility, and heroin, which
(04:24):
has medical utility. And on the other hand, there are
all these cannabis based medications like the CBD drugs for
childhood epilepsy and the synthetic heat seed drugs that are
FDA approved. So the government's been very just inconsistent and
confused about cannabis. And I'm just looking forward to a
day when the government is just neutral and curious about
cannabis instead of just being irrationally against it.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You know, this is a good opportunity to ask questions
of a professional, probably the most knowledgeable professional on the subject.
If you're curious about use, maybe you've dabbled in it,
maybe you've wanted to. I almost think if my mother
we're alive, she might try it. But she would never
have thought of it in a million years before. But
now it's it's medicine, and.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
People are getting it from their kids. Their kids are
the fastest group of Americans which is growing in the
medical cannabis use, or the over sixty five sixty five
and older demographic. They're going up at two percent, four percent,
eight percent. It's really going up incredibly. And the older
patients are finding that they can accomplish with cannabis a
(05:30):
lot better what they were accomplishing with pharmaceuticals, and they
could actually cut down on many of the pharmaceuticals they
were using. But it's interesting. A lot of them get
them get it from their kids.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So if you're curious if this might be something that
would be helpful to you, six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty. If you're curious about side effects or the
efficacy of cannabis for certain maladies, six one seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty. Have you tried it? Does it work?
Were you afraid before you tried it and and you
(06:01):
found that it wasn't so bad or it was actually good?
Have you tried CBD? I know that Doug in Air
swears by CBD. He was an early adopter, and just
like anything else Doug does, he's all in. And that's
that's the case for me too. I love straight CBD
for sleeping and this also, and I'll ask you about this,
(06:23):
this CBD, CBA, a whole bunch of other derivatives, cannabinoid forms.
I know nothing about we do have Ann in Connecticut.
It's nice to hear from Connecticut. Hello Ann, You're on
wb Z with doctor Peter grinspoone.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Hello Ann, Hi, how are you? I thought I'd call
from Connecticut to contribute to the current conversation. I listened
to you nightly to the host there nightly.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Nine years ago, my husband died at fifty two from
oral cancer. He had been in a veteran He was
on the Nimits and he was an aircraft mechanic. Plenty
of documents out there that petrolium exhausts uh can cause
oral cancer. He also was a state employee of hazardous
(07:16):
duty correctional officer in Connecticut, and they let the prison
prisons utilize a lot of older buildings UH, and they
did in as best as reclamation improperly at one point.
So basically his situation was oral cancer, tongue cancer, and
it was a nightmare for four years. Basically neck dissections, UH, cryosurgery,
(07:43):
chemo radiation, stomach tube. He and this player was the
stomach tube. I had a number a couple of friends
that grew up with me. I knew in college in Connecticut,
and two of them in the nineties moved out to Boulder, Colorado.
One became huge in the canna industry. A good friend
of mine and and Connecticut had you know, medical marijuana program.
(08:04):
I had to get certified as a caregiver just to
retrieve the product and come back. But for stomach to
patients there really was no At some point they had
a total gloss ectomy. His entire tongue was removed from
the base of his throat and they did a flap
from rist tissue, and then to cover over the wrist tissue,
it looked like a shark bite. To cover up that
(08:24):
rist tissue they used thigh tissue. Incredible, terrible situation. However,
my friend in Boulder, we did kind of an ilegal
thing too. At that point in Connecticut, even though they
had medical marijuana, they produced liquid marijuana out there high concentration,
(08:45):
so my husband continued to get worse. My friend worked
it out with me that I was privy to liquid
marijuana for the stomach tube and it made a world
of difference. My husband had so much pain he ended
up in the end we lived in the hospital with
him in Hartford for the last month of his life.
(09:07):
But for that last year his pain he had no pain,
and you know a lot of I did tell the
palliative doctor I came clean, but with the palliative doctor,
he died before he went, like an hour before we
had to make a decision on hospice. But the pallid
doctor just said, keep doing what you're doing. I got
(09:28):
a cooler in a hotel room, I'm in the hospital room,
and we would refill it with ice. He said, just
don't tell the nurses. And he never had to go
on sentinel or morphine or anything like that. So it
what it did for the end of my husband's life
and his pain was incredible, And so I really don't
(09:49):
get anybody who doesn't get the value of this.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Thank you very much for sharing that story, and I
appreciate it. And doctor Greenspoin, you must hear stories like
this all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
First, I'm sorry about your husband. That sounds miserable, but
second of all, I'm really happy that medical cannabis gave
him relief and benefit. And one of the strongest indications
is for cancer related pain and chemotherapy induced nause and vomiting,
And frankly, it's hard to find an oncologist that's against
medical cannabis. Something like upwards of ninety percent of oncologists
(10:19):
support medical cannabis because they see patients like your husband
doing a lot better and suffering a lot less. And
it just really makes me wonder and bang my head
against the wall that I'm still running around trying to
convince other doctors that it's a medicine when there are
tens of millions of people in this country that are
having experiences like your husband did with just like having
greatly alleviated pain, anxiety, nausea, other symptoms with many fewer
(10:44):
side effects and pharmaceuticals. So I'm glad that we're getting
there as a society, but it's been it's been very.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Slow, and it's also kind of shocking to me that
there are some states in the dark ages that twelve
people will still go to jail for using this very
helpful substance with minimum side effects.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, the irony of that is that it's always been
worse for you to get involved with the criminal justice
system than to use marijuana. I mean, just what I
was talking about before, about how blacks and whites use
it at the same rate, and blacks have been arrested
four times as much. I mean, there have been more
than twenty million arrests for nonviolent cannabis possession in this country,
again mostly people with black and brown skin, and that
it affects your employment, it affects your housing, it affects
(11:26):
your student loans, it's your education. And it's just crazy
how much war damage, the war on drugs and the
war on cannabis is done than the actual cannabis itself does.
It's completely nuts.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
More with doctor Peter grinspoone after this on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Here we go more with doctor Peter Grinspoon. Who is it? Well,
for lack of a better phrase of cannabis doctor, he's
a what is the phrase? What are you calling? What?
What do you call? You?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
A primary carry doctor and cannabis sessionist.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Okay, And I would like to hear from some people
who are curious, who want to know, Hey, maybe this
cannabis thing is would help me sleep, would help my pain.
It's not only for the catastrophic situation like we just heard,
but from you know, it's a maybe not an everyday thing,
but it's it's useful in many ways. And I'm curious
(12:20):
about your cannabis coaching? How does that work? Why don't
if someone calls, now, maybe Jim in Kansas City, maybe
he needs a little coaching, how about you? Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty, and you know I have a little chat
about maybe maybe cannabis or some derivative thereof CBD. This
is right for you. So cannabis coaching, how does that work?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Well, again, I've been doing this for twenty five years,
so I'm pretty comfortable doing it. And I do it
from the point of view of someone who's his specialty
in primary care. So I'm pretty comfortable with all the
different issues and medicines that people approach me on. And
people just come and sign up on my website, which
is just my name www dot Peter Grinspoon, and they
(13:01):
can sign up for a thirty minute session with me.
If they're in Massachusetts, I can get them a medical card.
But I coach people from all over the world actually,
and we could just talk about any particular medical problem
and whether cannabis can help, what the side effects are,
what the dose is, how you'd start, what you'd watch
out for, what are the warning signs of addiction or
bad reaction? So I would say that with most people,
(13:23):
but not everybody, we can get them feeling a lot
more comfortable using cannabis. And many people can use a
cannabis instead of these different pharmaceutical products that give them
very bad hangovers. Like a lot of people switch ambient,
for example, for sleep, for cannabis and they get a
better night's sleep and they don't wake up super groggy
and ambience a lot more dangerous in cannabis. So whatever
(13:44):
the condition is, for most things, you know, there's certain
things cannabis doesn't do that people think it does. You know,
cannabis doesn't cure covid, Cannabis doesn't cure cancer. But for
symptoms like anxiety, insomnia, chronic pain, irritable bowel, symptoms associated
with the Parkinson's or multiple sclerosis, or cancer related symptoms,
I feel like I can make people a lot more comfortable,
(14:06):
usually starting with CBD and then adding a little bit
of TEC and so that they're.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Comfortable and sleep. Did you mention sleep?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh yeah, insomnia is a huge one, big, big yeah.
And the current drugs we have stink for insomnia. The ambient,
the trazodone, melatonin doesn't do anything. Benadru just makes you groggy.
A lot of these sleeping medications cause dementia. There's concern
that ambient or the benzodazepines or benadro cast dementia. Cannabis
is for many people a safer and more natural way
(14:34):
to gently fall asleep. Now, of course, some people it
makes anxious. Some people it doesn't work. Some people it
makes wide awake. It doesn't work for everybody for sleep,
but for the majority of patients it's really effective.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And I think it's important to point out that the
dose for each individual is different, and is it matters
so much for someone who is anxious when they use
TAC product, maybe you're just taking too much.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Absolutely anxiety is great example of that. It's called biphasic.
If you take a low dose of TC, it makes
you less anxious, TC being the main active ingredy in cannabis.
If you take two high a dose of TC, it
makes you really really anxious. If you take a big dose,
you can end up with a panic attack. You could
even end up in the emergency room. So we start
people really carefully. We start low and we go slow,
(15:21):
and for example, a puff of cannabis is like five
to ten milligrams one puff. I'll often start people on
two and a half milligrams of THC, probably not even
enough to feel, just to get them gently started on
their journey to alleviating their different symptoms.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Also, if you want really low THC, available are gummies
that are twenty, for example, twenty parts CBD to one
part THAC. So you can get one gummy that's one
milligram of THC and twenty of CBD. So you can
cut that in half and get half a miligram of
THC and ten milligrams of CBD.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Really low exactly. And the thing about cannabis is you
can't untake it once you've taken. So you don't want
to take a huge gummy or a huge edible, or
take like four huge puffs if you haven't used it
in twenty years. You want to just take a little
bit to start, and then if that doesn't work the
next day, you take a little bit more and you
gently get your way up to the right dose. So
if you do that, nothing bad is going to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You take a ridiculously small amount and knowing that nothing's
going to happen, and then you up, you tightrate up
and take your time, take your time, and then at
some point, after a few days the amount, well, you'll
notice a little something, and that's I guess where you
want to be.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
No exactly. Sometimes people get products from their kids and
they're too strong because the kids take a big dose
because they're used to it. They're sick of seeing their
mom or their dad suffer from arthritis or anxiety or insomnia,
so they give it to their parents and they give
them a really big dose. And for older people, I
often start with one milligram, like a fifth of a
five milligram gummy, just a teeny bit, and we add
(16:51):
some CBD and we just get them relaxed and heading
towards alleviation of their symptoms.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
So if you feel it might be helpful for you,
helpful for you and you're unsure about how to proceed,
cannabis coaching is a real thing and a valuable service
provided by not many people, but our guest doctor Peter Green.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And I just had I also coach people about cannabis addiction.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm really good that some people get addicted to cannabis.
It's not as addictive as cigarettes, alcohol, or opiates. The
addiction is very serious. It's not. You don't die like
you do with opiates or with alcohol. But I do
coach people on cannabis addiction because anything that causes relaxation
in the euphoria like cannabis can can be addictive.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Okay, now we go to Kansas City and Jim, Yeah,
Jim is that Kansas City, Missouri or Kansas City, Kansas, Missouri? Side?
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay, how are you doing? Very well? Welcome to the program.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
I mean listening to you every night, but I still
can't remember your name.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Sorry, that's all right. Bradley j.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Bradley J. Okay, hey, uh so, And anyway, what I'm
kind of wondering about is what is the doctor's opinion
or what are other listening opinions on people who use
the cannabis, whether it's medical or otherwise. And then at work,
should they be responsible for uh reporting that they're on
(18:12):
that they're on it while they're at work? And should
they should the employer be responsible for testing them?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Good question?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
If somebody gets hurt at work? Should they be allowed
to operate machinery? And we what the machinery is? A
is a pallet jack? Is that machinery or you know, uh,
climbing ladders or whatever. And if somebody gets hurt, who's
liable for that?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, that's a great question. Just like alcohol, nobody should.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
Be I know it's a great question.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
That's why I.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Just like alcohol. No one should be using cannabis before work,
and nobody should be operating heavy machinery period number one,
number two. The exception to that might be if you're
an artist or a painter or a writer and you're
just working at home. You're not going to hurt anybody
in your computer if you use a little bit of candidates.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It depends on the job. What about this?
Speaker 5 (18:55):
What if you're that doesn't answer my question?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I know we're getting there. Who's responsible we're getting You
got to give us time to get there?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Now he skipped over it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
No, he didn't get there yet, No skipping it has
been done. So No, it depends on the job. What
about a person who works in an office in a cubicle?
What about that?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Well, I am not a big fan of people using
cannabis at work. How do they get to work? How
do they get home from work? And I just think
that it depends on your job and you have to
interface with other people. Again, if people are really experienced
of cannabis and they use a little bit.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
For no, no, no, no, I'm talking about this. Stuff stays
in your blood for two weeks. If you if you
have a puff tonight, you're still going to be I know,
I know, people get high, don't want to admit it,
but they're still under the influence at eight o'clock tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
No no, no, but right, you're you're sort of misunderstanding how
the testing works. So that's actually the problem with testing people.
It stays in your blood. I agree, for like three weeks,
but you're only intoxicated with an edible for maybe six hours.
From smoking for two to four hours, you're definitely not
intoxicated the next day. And the problem with testing is
if you are drug tested at work for cannabis, all
(20:10):
that a positive test will say is that you used
cannabis within the last week. It can't tell you whether
you used it or not within the last two to
four hours. So the testing for cannabis is really problematic
because it doesn't show if people are impaired. It just
shows that they've used cannabis in the past. As for
the liability, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, it's
probably the same as for alcohol.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Okay. Now, to address the Jim's question regarding liability, that
was a big thing. What if a crane operator uses
cannabis yesterday, operates the crane today, still has a you know,
a significant amount of testing his blood his or her bloodstream.
(20:53):
The question is who's liable? Is the company liable for that?
And because of that, shouldn't the company be able to
ban all use of cannabis by that employee all the time,
and should they be allowed to randomly test et cetera.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Well, I think you're more impaired if you've been drunk
the night before than if you've used cannabis.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, yeah, but that's still okay. That may be the case.
But to Jim's point, that doesn't answer the question.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I don't know the answer about viability because I'm not
an attorney, but I think that if people use modest
amounts of medical cannabis the night before, they're not particularly
impaired the next day. In fact, their studies coming out
of Harvard showing their studies coming out of Harvard showing
that people who suffer from pain, anxiety, and insomnia have
(21:37):
actually improved cognitive performance because they sleep better. So you
can't really make any great generalizations about function the next day.
I just haven't seen any convincing evidence.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So, Jim, what about somebody who gets hammered the night
before on whiskey and beer and as a hangover and
goes into work. Are you okay with that? No?
Speaker 5 (21:57):
I mean I think, Look, I'm not going to give
you all all the details, but I think drugs and
alcohol it's severely imperial. They don't imp they don't hurt
your brain. They hurt your mind, your mental ability to
think and act in real time in your mind. Just
for you know, for clarification, difference between your mind and
(22:19):
your brain.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Your cat was a foster leader. Your brain is the
organic organ, and your mind is your thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay, and you can damage one without affecting the other.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Well linked, they're definitely linked.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
That's the philosophical.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Mind is damaged. My mind is damaged, but my brain's okay. Okay,
I don't look.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
I I work around people that operate fork lifts and
big tractors, and trust, I don't want to be around
anybody who if they had that in their blood at all.
I don't. I don't want them behind the wheel or
operating a forklift or a poort, pallet jack, or even
climbing up a ladder.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I don't want to What if they can't sleep, you
don't want them taking ambient or benadryl or trasid own
any of the sleeping medications are going to impair you
the next day. So what are people supposed to do?
They have to take something. I mean, I agree with you.
People shouldn't be.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Impaired, don't operate any machine, get a new job.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I know, but like ten people have insomnia, like most
people take something for sleep.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
All right, let's take Jim's question up a quick notch.
We have to break, but one quick notch. What about
say the ultimate? I guess airline pilot. Should airline pilots
ever be able to use cannabis well with airline I
cannot tell how much is in the system, so they
might be a bunch in the system.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
I mean it's a question of safety versus you know,
individual rights, and I think it would be reasonable to
say airline pilots can use cannabis when they're on vacation,
but they can't use it within seventy two hours of
flying a flight. And now nobody could argue that you're
impaired seventy two hours after using cannabis.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
How do you confirm that they did not? Is it
within seventy two hours? Is it the test show there?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Well, now that's one of the main problems. That's a
big problem with trying to detect.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Okay, so he admits it's a problem.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
All right, I gotta go hold on.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It's a problem with cannabis impaired driving too. There aren't
good tests. We can't tell if someone's impaired.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Fair enough, excellent call. I love that Jim in Kansas City.
I've never spoken with Jim. Jim, I hope you call
me back someday. It was a great call, great great questions,
and you did a good job. More with doctor Grinspoon
after this on Deputy Bzy.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
All right, let's continue. Thanks again to Jim for his
call from Kansas City, Missouri. We continue with doctor Peter Grinspoon,
who is a primary care physician specializing in cannabis. There
you go, I have a couple, uh, you know, we
don't have a lot of time. We have twenty minutes maybe,
and a couple things I do want to clarify. I
(24:58):
heard that the vapes that were oil based were bad
for you because coated your lung with oil, which would
cause a thing called popcorn lung, so I have stayed
away from those. Is that a legitimate concern.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Well, I don't think vaping's the healthiest way to consume cannabis.
I don't think smoking is either. I think people do
better with edibles or with tinctures, as long as they
control the dose very carefully, because when you smoke or
vape cannabis, you can get combustion products which are very
bad for your lung in your heart. So no doctor
recommends smoking your vaping. But in reality, people do vape.
Someone with nausea chemotherapy, they want to take a quick
(25:36):
puff so they don't throw up. Someone with the migraine,
they can't swallow pills, so people vape all the time.
I tend to think that vaping is very irritating to
the lungs because you're just smoking some random oil with
some cannabis products dissolved.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Who knows what that oil is.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, Now, the popcorn long that we had about whatever.
Eight years ago with the e Valley crisis, those were
illegal vapes, the cheaply made vapes with like oil from
like China that wasn't regulated at all. So nobody's getting
popcort long from legal vapes. But I still don't think
legal vaping is a very particularly safe way to consume cannabis.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
All right. As an observation, I like the fact that
you can look at the ingredients on the back and
really drill down on how much of each ingredient is there.
That wasn't the case before it was legal. You didn't
know what kind it was, how strong it was, You
didn't know anything about it, what a dose would be.
(26:33):
But now you really know. And the people that work
at these dispensaries are extremely knowledgeable.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Well, they're very knowledgeable, the bud tenders, and they're very
nice people. The only problem is sometimes they wade into
the territory of making medical advice and they shouldn't get
over the head. This is why we have to educate
doctors and nurses about cannabis so that they can make recommendations.
As it is now, there's a vacuum. Most doctors don't
know enough about cannabis to have a sensible or helpful
(27:00):
discussion with their patients. Therefore, the patient goes to the
bud tender at the dispensary and says, what should I
get from my headache? And then the bud tender, who
is just basically a salesperson and a cannabis enthusiast, is
in the position of making medical recommendations. So I think
the more we get pharmacists some dispensaries have pharmacists in them,
(27:20):
some states mandate that, and the more we educate doctors
and nurses about cannabis, the less of this stuff we're
going to have going on.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Bud tender. I like that word, bud tender. It's a
kind of a new.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
They're like the nicest people you'll meet, and they're very enthusiastic.
But again they're not trained at all in anything by anybody.
They shouldn't be making medical recommendations.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Okay, how do you get a medical card? And what's
the advantage of the medical card? Well, at the dispensary,
I have gone too. There are two sides, one for
one for medical patients and one for the recreational patients.
And I know that there are different options for folks
over in the medical side, so there must be other
(28:01):
advantages to be in a medical patient.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well, you used to need a medical card to access
medical cannabis in all states until it was the twenty
four that have legalized it recreationally. Now in Massachusetts it's
legal medically and recreationally. The medical card has become less
important because most of the stores are recreational stores, and
anybody who wants cannabis can disc go to a recreational store.
And you know, many people who buy cannabis from recreational
(28:26):
stores use it for medical purposes, for sleep, for pain,
and for anxiety. The main benefits of a medical card
are number one, you don't pay taxes, so twenty percent cheaper.
This is really important for older people or veterans, people
on fixed income who have a really hard time affording
the cannabis because it isn't paid for by health insurance.
But cannabis can also give you some job protections. A
medical card can give you some job protection. Today get
(28:48):
tested on your job that federal government still considers it illegal.
So if you work for the DEA or the FBI,
a medical card is not going to get you off
the hook for a positive test for cannabis. But many
employers in Massachusetts, if you have a medical card and
your drug test is negative except for cannabis, you could
just show them the medical card and say I use
it at night for sleep, I'm not impaired at all.
(29:08):
During the day, They'll look the other way. So it
really offers people protections in their employment.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Did we talk about taxes.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, you don't forget in Massachusetts, you don't pay twenty
percent tax sostea.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
In is a whopping tax.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, well, that's why we make so much money since
legalizing cannabis. Now we make more tax revenue from cannabis
than we do from alcohol. Last year we made it
like seventy two million dollars in tax revenue from cannabis
sales and only fifty million from alcohol. But part of
that's because the tax on cannabis is so high.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Okay, now we move into a new area. When you
go to the dispensary, you better bring cash because it's
cash only. It's a cash only business. Why because, well,
it's probably better if you explain why, because you're the expert.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Well, cannabis is legal recreationally in twenty four states, which
represents more than half of states. People live in or
half of the Americans live in recreational states. It's legal
in thirty eight states for medical marijuana. You know, most
Americans support medical marijuana, something like ninety three percent of
Americans support legal access to medical marijuana. But to the
(30:10):
federal government, it's still an illegal control substance Schedule one,
no medical utility, high abuse liability, neither of which is
is even remotely true, and so they consider it money
laundering and drug dealing. So you're not allowed to use
your MasterCard, you're not allowed to use your visa. You
just have to pay with cash or in a few states,
your bank card to get medical cannabis. And this is
(30:32):
so ironic because it just increases the possibility for crime
because these businesses have to do everything in cash, and
that's an invitation to robbery. And then they say, ah,
look there's crime associated with cannabis, and it's like, not
the cannabis, it's because you're not allowing people to use
credit cards and they have fifty thousand dollars worth of
cash lying around the dispensary. So once we get federal
(30:53):
cannabis legalization, which Donald Trump says he's supposedly in favor
of the who knows if anything he's saying is Joe
Biden was in favor of it, Kamala Harris is in favor.
Most Republicans and most Democrats are in favor of cannabis legalization.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Even Biden administration, they say they're in favorite favor of it.
But nothing can be done by executive order. Really, it
has to be a congressional I mean it has to be,
let's say done.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So what Donald Trump can do and he says he's
in favor of this is to deschedule it. Excuse me
to reschedule it. As I mentioned before, right now, cannabis
is Schedule one, which has no medical use and high
abuse liability, and they're talking about rescheduling it to Schedule three,
which is still restricted. Is like cough medicine with codeine
(31:39):
or like ketamine is Schedule three, but you can write
prescriptions for it. You can write refills for Schedule three drugs,
And that would really unlock a lot of research funding
for the cannabis scientists if it were easier to study.
It's much easier to study a less controlled substance.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
All right, after this break, I want to find out
if there have been any changes since marijuana became legal
in Massachusetts. Did the accident rate rise with the hospitalizations rise?
What would the you know what happened? You probably don't know.
I kind of know because I looked it up. But
(32:16):
we're going to have our expert tell us after this
on w BZY.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
That's right, we have a few minutes to talk about
cannabis with our friend and our expert here, doctor Peter Grinspoon,
and I promise to get the information on what has
have there been any downsides since medical since marijuana became
legal in Massachusetts? And so what are the numbers?
Speaker 5 (32:44):
Say?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I'm sure you look into it, that's what you do.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Well, there have definitely been some downsides since we've legalized cannabis,
but this has to be viewed in the context of
many fewer arrests and huge tax revenue to the state,
and the fact that using cannabis now that it's legal
as much safer as you mentioned, for it's labeled, it
doesn't have fungus, pesticides, heavy metals in it. The strength
of cannabis is much stronger than it used to be,
(33:08):
Like it used to be two to four percent TC,
and now it's over twenty percent, So we do have
accidental over consumptions, and the emergency room visits for accidental
over consumptions are going up, which is really unfortunate. Sometimes
these are even kids.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Now.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I wrote something as early as in twenty eighteen for
Harvard Health saying, if cannabis is medicine, don't make it
taste good. So we make these cannabis treats into little
gummies and chocolate bars, and people don't know. A four
year old doesn't know that it's cannabis in it, they'll
eat the whole thing and they'll get really sick. They
can end up in the hospital. So accidental over consumptions
are going up, so.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
They really had to make it taste bad. Taste like medicine.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You can get gummies, but they should be individually wrapped.
There shouldn't be a whole bag of gummies and you
have to store your gummies or your chocolate. I don't
think we should be making them into tasty treats any medicine.
Right a kid, if you make tile and all into
or ibuprofit into a yummy r elixir, the kid's gonna
drink the whole thing. So, but people have to be
responsible and store your cannabis where you'd store any other medication.
(34:08):
You can't leave it in the fridge. You've got to
put it in your medicine closet or lock it up
because it's a psychoactive substance. So accidental over consumptions have
gone up. Alcohol use might be going down, which is
really interesting because nobody could argue that cannabis is more
dangerous than alcohol.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Alcohol.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
There were one hundred and seventy eight thousand alcohol related
deaths last year. There are zero cannabis related deaths. What's
staying the same with legalization is teen usage is staying
about the same, which is really good. And there have
been no good evidence of increases in auto accidents. So
last alcohol the same use by teens. We don't want
teens using it, which we try to keep them away
(34:46):
from it hasn't gone up with legalization, but there have
been increases in hospitalizations from over consumption.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
How does cannabis compare to alcohol when it comes to
impairment and driving. We all know how alcohol impairs your driving,
but how impaired are you under the influence of cannabis.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Well, it depends how often you use it. If you
use a little bit every day, you're much less impaired
than if you use a huge amount once a month,
because you get tolerance and you get used to the effects.
But I looked into this very carefully for my recent book,
Seeing Through the Smoke and All things being equal, alcohol
increases your chances of an accident by about eight times.
In cannabis about doubles it. Now doubling it is huge.
(35:28):
I mean, you could kill a whole family with kids.
I mean, we don't recommend at all that people use
drive after using cannabis, And some studies are shown that
people feel like they can drive within an hour or
two after using cannabis, but then when they study the
standard lane deviation and the response times, it actually takes
three to four hours for the cannabis to wear off.
(35:49):
So we really don't recommend after smoking that you drive
for the next four hours, or after an edible that
you drive for the next eight hours. But given the
cannabis doubles your risk for an accident, it's important to
keep that in kind text. If that's about what all
the other drugs that we tell people not to drive
on that they ignore us as doctors and drive on
any ways, do like your opiates, your benzodazepines, your benadreaux,
(36:10):
your gabapentin, your antihistamines, those are about double your risk.
So we tell people not to drive in those. And
we don't want people driving on cannabis. But you know,
someone's a construction worker, they're in extreme pain. They're going
to pop a percocet on the way to work so
they can get through the day, or they're going to
take a puff of cannabis. We tell people not to
drive on these things. But you also have to understand
that people are miserable and they're doing the best they can,
(36:30):
and when people are desperate, they make bad choices.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
On a side note, the on that topic, one of
the causes of accidents, I believe was when people smoke
the joints in the car, they would drop an ash
on their lap and they would not be concentrating on
driving and maybe like swerve and crash.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I mean that happened right, Well, that happens with cigarettes
as well.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, that's true. Well, and I suppose the phone anything
else we want the couple we have all like three
minutes hospital. You mentioned hospitals. Oh, did you talk about
the already the hospitalization right, the overdose did increase.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Oh yeah, accidental over consumptions are leading both kids and
adults and even older adults into the hospital. And again
this could be avoided with education, with careful regulation of
the cannabis products, and with people remembering to start low
and to go slow and to work their way up
very slowly on the cannabis, on the cannabis dose. And
also again we are asking for trouble making cannabis into
(37:33):
chocolate bars, into little gummies that a little kid would eat,
and people have to store their cannabis much more safely.
And if we do those things, there are going to
be many fewer accidental overdoses.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
And I think you should really careful about cannabis laying
around if you have a dog, because they are the
gummies are sugary and THC is toxic to dogs.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, dogs get really, really sick. Interestingly, CBD has been
shown to help dogs with like osteoarthritis and with anxiety.
Say there afraid of thunderstorms, So people are using CBD.
A lot of veterinarians now sell CBD. But the TC,
the intoxicating part of cannabis can be really really disorienting
to dogs and make them really sick. And people think
it's cute to give their dogs cannabis, just like they
(38:13):
think it's cute to give their dog's alcohol. But I
think is really mean to the dog.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And a chocolate cannabis bar is a double whammy because
chocolate is poisonous to dogs. I don't know if you
know that, but it is. Never give you a dog
chocolate and if it has tac and that's doubly bad.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, that would be miserable for a dog. And again
it when people buy gummies and chocolate bars. You don't
think this is a medicine that needs to be in
the medicine cabinet, but it really is. And you can't
just leave it lying around.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And if you see a chocolate bar laying around the
house and somebody, if you visit somebody's house, see chocolate
bar laying around, do not eat it. Can you give
out your website again.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Sure, it's www dot Petergrinspoon dot com, Grinspoons g R
I N S p O O N. So it's just
my first name and my last name, Peter Grinspoon dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That's cool, great job, Thank you, for coming in. It's
great to see you again.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
This is awesome. It's great to hear that you're doing
so well. Guess who's up next. You're not gonna believe this, really,
you're not. Go ahead, guess wrong. Up next is Devo
It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray On. You Beazy Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Nightside on Bradley Jay for Dan. Let me
ask you a question. Are you glad that marijuana was
legalized in Massachusetts? Have you noticed any changes in the
culture since legalization? Did the sky fall? Did it fall
a little bit? Did you notice anything? Would you like
to see it decriminalized federally? Legalized federally? Maybe you started
(00:27):
using cannabis products since it's become legal in Massachusetts, or
maybe you're cannabis curious. Maybe you have a malady that
you've heard might be helped by cannabis instead of some
big pharma product. It might be less invasive, might be better.
Who do you ask? Well, you ask our guest tonight,
Peter Grinspoon, MD. He's a primary care physician at mass
(00:50):
General Hospital and an instructor in medicine at Harvard Medical School.
A lot of experience, twenty five years of experience, specializing
in cannabis medicine. He's been on the for a while
popular speaker National Lee on national media, and he talks
about topics such as cannabis addiction in general, not necessarily
(01:11):
cannabis addiction education patient certification in Massachusetts only, and he's
an addiction coach offering extensive support to folks and families
at all ages, all stages of the addiction and recovery process.
Welcome to the program.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Thank you for coming in, Thanks for having me, glad
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, we've talked to you before and you're so great
and I wanted to have you back.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Tell me a little bit more about your practice and
how it's unique.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, my practice is unique in that I've been involved
with medical cannabis for twenty five years. Not that many
doctors can say that. I don't know if any doctors
can say that. Actually, when I was growing up, my
brother Danny developed leukemia when I was eight years old.
He was sixteen, and he was really really sick with
the chemotherapy, and my parents in the early nineteen seventies
(02:00):
bought him cannabis illegally, and it was amazing the difference
to cannabis made to my brother Danny. During the last
year of his life. He was able to hold down food.
Most importantly to us, he was able to play with
his little brothers and hang out with the family. So
I knew from a very early age that medical cannabis
isn't a cure all but works for certain conditions. So
I've been studying it and practicing it for the last
(02:20):
twenty five years, and I think that gives me a
pretty broad background in medical cannabis.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, I do you suppose it was demonized for so
long and still is in some areas of the country,
some states very nearby.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, there's a lot of ignorance and nonsense about cannabis.
I mean, at the end of the day, it's a medicine,
just like any other medicine. It helps some people, it
doesn't help other people. It has some side effects, and
it has a lot of benefits. It's just a tool
that doctors and nurses can use in their toolbox. The
history of the War on drugs, in the War on
cannabis is just ugly, and that's a whole nother conversation.
(02:53):
A lot of it was pure racism, a lot of
the same racism we see today at the southern border.
You know, these crazy local Mexicans were smoking the local weed.
A lot of it was targeted against blacks. Throughout the
whole War on drugs, Blacks and whites used cannabis at
about the same rates, and blacks have been arrested at
about four times the rate that white people have. So
(03:15):
it's really been the war on drugs and a lot
of nonsense coming not only from the US government but
unfortunately for a long time, from the medical community.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
It's interesting that I'm not the first to point this
out that the government used to put you in jail,
and now the government is your dealer.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Kind of Well, it's true.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, the government's not your dealer. I mean they're
private enterprises, but it is governmentally overseen.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, it goes back and forth. Remember, cannabis was a
legal medicine in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen
hundreds in the United States. There were more than one
hundred medical papers written about medical cannabis. Doctors loved it,
and it was commonly prescribed. Then prohibition ended and we
had this whole law enforcement that needed something else to
go after. So they went after cannabis and locked it
(04:03):
away for seventy years, and the medical community really changed
against it, and now they're coming back in favor of it.
And it's true, the government is very confused and divided
about cannabis. On the one hand, they say it's Schedule
one drug, like other drugs like LSD and psilocybal, both
of which of course had heeroetical utility, and heroin, which
(04:24):
has medical utility. And on the other hand, there are
all these cannabis based medications like the CBD drugs for
childhood epilepsy and the synthetic heat seed drugs that are
FDA approved. So the government's been very just inconsistent and
confused about cannabis. And I'm just looking forward to a
day when the government is just neutral and curious about
cannabis instead of just being irrationally against it.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
You know, this is a good opportunity to ask questions
of a professional, probably the most knowledgeable professional on the subject.
If you're curious about use, maybe you've dabbled in it,
maybe you've wanted to. I almost think if my mother
we're alive, she might try it. But she would never
have thought of it in a million years before. But
now it's it's medicine, and.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
People are getting it from their kids. Their kids are
the fastest group of Americans which is growing in the
medical cannabis use, or the over sixty five sixty five
and older demographic. They're going up at two percent, four percent,
eight percent. It's really going up incredibly. And the older
patients are finding that they can accomplish with cannabis a
(05:30):
lot better what they were accomplishing with pharmaceuticals, and they
could actually cut down on many of the pharmaceuticals they
were using. But it's interesting. A lot of them get
them get it from their kids.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So if you're curious if this might be something that
would be helpful to you, six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty. If you're curious about side effects or the
efficacy of cannabis for certain maladies, six one seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty. Have you tried it? Does it work?
Were you afraid before you tried it and and you
(06:01):
found that it wasn't so bad or it was actually good?
Have you tried CBD? I know that Doug in Air
swears by CBD. He was an early adopter, and just
like anything else Doug does, he's all in. And that's
that's the case for me too. I love straight CBD
for sleeping and this also, and I'll ask you about this,
(06:23):
this CBD, CBA, a whole bunch of other derivatives, cannabinoid forms.
I know nothing about we do have Ann in Connecticut.
It's nice to hear from Connecticut. Hello Ann, You're on
wb Z with doctor Peter grinspoone.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Hello Ann, Hi, how are you? I thought I'd call
from Connecticut to contribute to the current conversation. I listened
to you nightly to the host there nightly.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Now.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Nine years ago, my husband died at fifty two from
oral cancer. He had been in a veteran He was
on the Nimits and he was an aircraft mechanic. Plenty
of documents out there that petrolium exhausts uh can cause
oral cancer. He also was a state employee of hazardous
(07:16):
duty correctional officer in Connecticut, and they let the prison
prisons utilize a lot of older buildings UH, and they
did in as best as reclamation improperly at one point.
So basically his situation was oral cancer, tongue cancer, and
it was a nightmare for four years. Basically neck dissections, UH, cryosurgery,
(07:43):
chemo radiation, stomach tube. He and this player was the
stomach tube. I had a number a couple of friends
that grew up with me. I knew in college in Connecticut,
and two of them in the nineties moved out to Boulder, Colorado.
One became huge in the canna industry. A good friend
of mine and and Connecticut had you know, medical marijuana program.
(08:04):
I had to get certified as a caregiver just to
retrieve the product and come back. But for stomach to
patients there really was no At some point they had
a total gloss ectomy. His entire tongue was removed from
the base of his throat and they did a flap
from rist tissue, and then to cover over the wrist tissue,
it looked like a shark bite. To cover up that
(08:24):
rist tissue they used thigh tissue. Incredible, terrible situation. However,
my friend in Boulder, we did kind of an ilegal
thing too. At that point in Connecticut, even though they
had medical marijuana, they produced liquid marijuana out there high concentration,
(08:45):
so my husband continued to get worse. My friend worked
it out with me that I was privy to liquid
marijuana for the stomach tube and it made a world
of difference. My husband had so much pain he ended
up in the end we lived in the hospital with
him in Hartford for the last month of his life.
(09:07):
But for that last year his pain he had no pain,
and you know a lot of I did tell the
palliative doctor I came clean, but with the palliative doctor,
he died before he went, like an hour before we
had to make a decision on hospice. But the pallid
doctor just said, keep doing what you're doing. I got
(09:28):
a cooler in a hotel room, I'm in the hospital room,
and we would refill it with ice. He said, just
don't tell the nurses. And he never had to go
on sentinel or morphine or anything like that. So it
what it did for the end of my husband's life
and his pain was incredible, And so I really don't
(09:49):
get anybody who doesn't get the value of this.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Thank you very much for sharing that story, and I
appreciate it. And doctor Greenspoin, you must hear stories like
this all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
First, I'm sorry about your husband. That sounds miserable, but
second of all, I'm really happy that medical cannabis gave
him relief and benefit. And one of the strongest indications
is for cancer related pain and chemotherapy induced nause and vomiting,
And frankly, it's hard to find an oncologist that's against
medical cannabis. Something like upwards of ninety percent of oncologists
(10:19):
support medical cannabis because they see patients like your husband
doing a lot better and suffering a lot less. And
it just really makes me wonder and bang my head
against the wall that I'm still running around trying to
convince other doctors that it's a medicine when there are
tens of millions of people in this country that are
having experiences like your husband did with just like having
greatly alleviated pain, anxiety, nausea, other symptoms with many fewer
(10:44):
side effects and pharmaceuticals. So I'm glad that we're getting
there as a society, but it's been it's been very.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Slow, and it's also kind of shocking to me that
there are some states in the dark ages that twelve
people will still go to jail for using this very
helpful substance with minimum side effects.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, the irony of that is that it's always been
worse for you to get involved with the criminal justice
system than to use marijuana. I mean, just what I
was talking about before, about how blacks and whites use
it at the same rate, and blacks have been arrested
four times as much. I mean, there have been more
than twenty million arrests for nonviolent cannabis possession in this country,
again mostly people with black and brown skin, and that
it affects your employment, it affects your housing, it affects
(11:26):
your student loans, it's your education. And it's just crazy
how much war damage, the war on drugs and the
war on cannabis is done than the actual cannabis itself does.
It's completely nuts.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
More with doctor Peter grinspoone after this on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Here we go more with doctor Peter Grinspoon. Who is it? Well,
for lack of a better phrase of cannabis doctor, he's
a what is the phrase? What are you calling? What?
What do you call? You?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
A primary carry doctor and cannabis sessionist.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Okay, And I would like to hear from some people
who are curious, who want to know, Hey, maybe this
cannabis thing is would help me sleep, would help my pain.
It's not only for the catastrophic situation like we just heard,
but from you know, it's a maybe not an everyday thing,
but it's it's useful in many ways. And I'm curious
(12:20):
about your cannabis coaching? How does that work? Why don't
if someone calls, now, maybe Jim in Kansas City, maybe
he needs a little coaching, how about you? Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty, and you know I have a little chat
about maybe maybe cannabis or some derivative thereof CBD. This
is right for you. So cannabis coaching, how does that work?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Well, again, I've been doing this for twenty five years,
so I'm pretty comfortable doing it. And I do it
from the point of view of someone who's his specialty
in primary care. So I'm pretty comfortable with all the
different issues and medicines that people approach me on. And
people just come and sign up on my website, which
is just my name www dot Peter Grinspoon, and they
(13:01):
can sign up for a thirty minute session with me.
If they're in Massachusetts, I can get them a medical card.
But I coach people from all over the world actually,
and we could just talk about any particular medical problem
and whether cannabis can help, what the side effects are,
what the dose is, how you'd start, what you'd watch
out for, what are the warning signs of addiction or
bad reaction? So I would say that with most people,
(13:23):
but not everybody, we can get them feeling a lot
more comfortable using cannabis. And many people can use a
cannabis instead of these different pharmaceutical products that give them
very bad hangovers. Like a lot of people switch ambient,
for example, for sleep, for cannabis and they get a
better night's sleep and they don't wake up super groggy
and ambience a lot more dangerous in cannabis. So whatever
(13:44):
the condition is, for most things, you know, there's certain
things cannabis doesn't do that people think it does. You know,
cannabis doesn't cure covid, Cannabis doesn't cure cancer. But for
symptoms like anxiety, insomnia, chronic pain, irritable bowel, symptoms associated
with the Parkinson's or multiple sclerosis, or cancer related symptoms,
I feel like I can make people a lot more comfortable,
(14:06):
usually starting with CBD and then adding a little bit
of TEC and so that they're.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Comfortable and sleep. Did you mention sleep?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Oh yeah, insomnia is a huge one, big, big yeah.
And the current drugs we have stink for insomnia. The ambient,
the trazodone, melatonin doesn't do anything. Benadru just makes you groggy.
A lot of these sleeping medications cause dementia. There's concern
that ambient or the benzodazepines or benadro cast dementia. Cannabis
is for many people a safer and more natural way
(14:34):
to gently fall asleep. Now, of course, some people it
makes anxious. Some people it doesn't work. Some people it
makes wide awake. It doesn't work for everybody for sleep,
but for the majority of patients it's really effective.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And I think it's important to point out that the
dose for each individual is different, and is it matters
so much for someone who is anxious when they use
TAC product, maybe you're just taking too much.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Absolutely anxiety is great example of that. It's called biphasic.
If you take a low dose of TC, it makes
you less anxious, TC being the main active ingredy in cannabis.
If you take two high a dose of TC, it
makes you really really anxious. If you take a big dose,
you can end up with a panic attack. You could
even end up in the emergency room. So we start
people really carefully. We start low and we go slow,
(15:21):
and for example, a puff of cannabis is like five
to ten milligrams one puff. I'll often start people on
two and a half milligrams of THC, probably not even
enough to feel, just to get them gently started on
their journey to alleviating their different symptoms.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Also, if you want really low THC, available are gummies
that are twenty, for example, twenty parts CBD to one
part THAC. So you can get one gummy that's one
milligram of THC and twenty of CBD. So you can
cut that in half and get half a miligram of
THC and ten milligrams of CBD.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Really low exactly. And the thing about cannabis is you
can't untake it once you've taken. So you don't want
to take a huge gummy or a huge edible, or
take like four huge puffs if you haven't used it
in twenty years. You want to just take a little
bit to start, and then if that doesn't work the
next day, you take a little bit more and you
gently get your way up to the right dose. So
if you do that, nothing bad is going to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You take a ridiculously small amount and knowing that nothing's
going to happen, and then you up, you tightrate up
and take your time, take your time, and then at
some point, after a few days the amount, well, you'll
notice a little something, and that's I guess where you
want to be.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
No exactly. Sometimes people get products from their kids and
they're too strong because the kids take a big dose
because they're used to it. They're sick of seeing their
mom or their dad suffer from arthritis or anxiety or insomnia,
so they give it to their parents and they give
them a really big dose. And for older people, I
often start with one milligram, like a fifth of a
five milligram gummy, just a teeny bit, and we add
(16:51):
some CBD and we just get them relaxed and heading
towards alleviation of their symptoms.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
So if you feel it might be helpful for you,
helpful for you and you're unsure about how to proceed,
cannabis coaching is a real thing and a valuable service
provided by not many people, but our guest doctor Peter Green.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And I just had I also coach people about cannabis addiction.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm really good that some people get addicted to cannabis.
It's not as addictive as cigarettes, alcohol, or opiates. The
addiction is very serious. It's not. You don't die like
you do with opiates or with alcohol. But I do
coach people on cannabis addiction because anything that causes relaxation
in the euphoria like cannabis can can be addictive.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Okay, now we go to Kansas City and Jim, Yeah,
Jim is that Kansas City, Missouri or Kansas City, Kansas, Missouri? Side?
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay, how are you doing? Very well? Welcome to the program.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
I mean listening to you every night, but I still
can't remember your name.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Sorry, that's all right. Bradley j.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
Bradley J. Okay, hey, uh so, And anyway, what I'm
kind of wondering about is what is the doctor's opinion
or what are other listening opinions on people who use
the cannabis, whether it's medical or otherwise. And then at work,
should they be responsible for uh reporting that they're on
(18:12):
that they're on it while they're at work? And should
they should the employer be responsible for testing them?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Good question?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
If somebody gets hurt at work? Should they be allowed
to operate machinery? And we what the machinery is? A
is a pallet jack? Is that machinery or you know, uh,
climbing ladders or whatever. And if somebody gets hurt, who's
liable for that?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, that's a great question. Just like alcohol, nobody should.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
Be I know it's a great question.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
That's why I.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Just like alcohol. No one should be using cannabis before work,
and nobody should be operating heavy machinery period number one,
number two. The exception to that might be if you're
an artist or a painter or a writer and you're
just working at home. You're not going to hurt anybody
in your computer if you use a little bit of candidates.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It depends on the job. What about this?
Speaker 5 (18:55):
What if you're that doesn't answer my question?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I know we're getting there. Who's responsible we're getting You
got to give us time to get there?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
Now he skipped over it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
No, he didn't get there yet, No skipping it has
been done. So No, it depends on the job. What
about a person who works in an office in a cubicle?
What about that?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Well, I am not a big fan of people using
cannabis at work. How do they get to work? How
do they get home from work? And I just think
that it depends on your job and you have to
interface with other people. Again, if people are really experienced
of cannabis and they use a little bit.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
For no, no, no, no, I'm talking about this. Stuff stays
in your blood for two weeks. If you if you
have a puff tonight, you're still going to be I know,
I know, people get high, don't want to admit it,
but they're still under the influence at eight o'clock tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
No no, no, but right, you're you're sort of misunderstanding how
the testing works. So that's actually the problem with testing people.
It stays in your blood. I agree, for like three weeks,
but you're only intoxicated with an edible for maybe six hours.
From smoking for two to four hours, you're definitely not
intoxicated the next day. And the problem with testing is
if you are drug tested at work for cannabis, all
(20:10):
that a positive test will say is that you used
cannabis within the last week. It can't tell you whether
you used it or not within the last two to
four hours. So the testing for cannabis is really problematic
because it doesn't show if people are impaired. It just
shows that they've used cannabis in the past. As for
the liability, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, it's
probably the same as for alcohol.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Okay. Now, to address the Jim's question regarding liability, that
was a big thing. What if a crane operator uses
cannabis yesterday, operates the crane today, still has a you know,
a significant amount of testing his blood his or her bloodstream.
(20:53):
The question is who's liable? Is the company liable for that?
And because of that, shouldn't the company be able to
ban all use of cannabis by that employee all the time,
and should they be allowed to randomly test et cetera.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Well, I think you're more impaired if you've been drunk
the night before than if you've used cannabis.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, yeah, but that's still okay. That may be the case.
But to Jim's point, that doesn't answer the question.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I don't know the answer about viability because I'm not
an attorney, but I think that if people use modest
amounts of medical cannabis the night before, they're not particularly
impaired the next day. In fact, their studies coming out
of Harvard showing their studies coming out of Harvard showing
that people who suffer from pain, anxiety, and insomnia have
(21:37):
actually improved cognitive performance because they sleep better. So you
can't really make any great generalizations about function the next day.
I just haven't seen any convincing evidence.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So, Jim, what about somebody who gets hammered the night
before on whiskey and beer and as a hangover and
goes into work. Are you okay with that? No?
Speaker 5 (21:57):
I mean I think, Look, I'm not going to give
you all all the details, but I think drugs and
alcohol it's severely imperial. They don't imp they don't hurt
your brain. They hurt your mind, your mental ability to
think and act in real time in your mind. Just
for you know, for clarification, difference between your mind and
(22:19):
your brain.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Your cat was a foster leader. Your brain is the
organic organ, and your mind is your thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay, and you can damage one without affecting the other.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Well linked, they're definitely linked.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
That's the philosophical.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Mind is damaged. My mind is damaged, but my brain's okay. Okay,
I don't look.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
I I work around people that operate fork lifts and
big tractors, and trust, I don't want to be around
anybody who if they had that in their blood at all.
I don't. I don't want them behind the wheel or
operating a forklift or a poort, pallet jack, or even
climbing up a ladder.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I don't want to What if they can't sleep, you
don't want them taking ambient or benadryl or trasid own
any of the sleeping medications are going to impair you
the next day. So what are people supposed to do?
They have to take something. I mean, I agree with you.
People shouldn't be.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Impaired, don't operate any machine, get a new job.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
I know, but like ten people have insomnia, like most
people take something for sleep.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
All right, let's take Jim's question up a quick notch.
We have to break, but one quick notch. What about
say the ultimate? I guess airline pilot. Should airline pilots
ever be able to use cannabis well with airline I
cannot tell how much is in the system, so they
might be a bunch in the system.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
I mean it's a question of safety versus you know,
individual rights, and I think it would be reasonable to
say airline pilots can use cannabis when they're on vacation,
but they can't use it within seventy two hours of
flying a flight. And now nobody could argue that you're
impaired seventy two hours after using cannabis.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
How do you confirm that they did not? Is it
within seventy two hours? Is it the test show there?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Well, now that's one of the main problems. That's a
big problem with trying to detect.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Okay, so he admits it's a problem.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
All right, I gotta go hold on.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It's a problem with cannabis impaired driving too. There aren't
good tests. We can't tell if someone's impaired.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Fair enough, excellent call. I love that Jim in Kansas City.
I've never spoken with Jim. Jim, I hope you call
me back someday. It was a great call, great great questions,
and you did a good job. More with doctor Grinspoon
after this on Deputy Bzy.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
All right, let's continue. Thanks again to Jim for his
call from Kansas City, Missouri. We continue with doctor Peter Grinspoon,
who is a primary care physician specializing in cannabis. There
you go, I have a couple, uh, you know, we
don't have a lot of time. We have twenty minutes maybe,
and a couple things I do want to clarify. I
(24:58):
heard that the vapes that were oil based were bad
for you because coated your lung with oil, which would
cause a thing called popcorn lung, so I have stayed
away from those. Is that a legitimate concern.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Well, I don't think vaping's the healthiest way to consume cannabis.
I don't think smoking is either. I think people do
better with edibles or with tinctures, as long as they
control the dose very carefully, because when you smoke or
vape cannabis, you can get combustion products which are very
bad for your lung in your heart. So no doctor
recommends smoking your vaping. But in reality, people do vape.
Someone with nausea chemotherapy, they want to take a quick
(25:36):
puff so they don't throw up. Someone with the migraine,
they can't swallow pills, so people vape all the time.
I tend to think that vaping is very irritating to
the lungs because you're just smoking some random oil with
some cannabis products dissolved.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Who knows what that oil is.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, Now, the popcorn long that we had about whatever.
Eight years ago with the e Valley crisis, those were
illegal vapes, the cheaply made vapes with like oil from
like China that wasn't regulated at all. So nobody's getting
popcort long from legal vapes. But I still don't think
legal vaping is a very particularly safe way to consume cannabis.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
All right. As an observation, I like the fact that
you can look at the ingredients on the back and
really drill down on how much of each ingredient is there.
That wasn't the case before it was legal. You didn't
know what kind it was, how strong it was, You
didn't know anything about it, what a dose would be.
(26:33):
But now you really know. And the people that work
at these dispensaries are extremely knowledgeable.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Well, they're very knowledgeable, the bud tenders, and they're very
nice people. The only problem is sometimes they wade into
the territory of making medical advice and they shouldn't get
over the head. This is why we have to educate
doctors and nurses about cannabis so that they can make recommendations.
As it is now, there's a vacuum. Most doctors don't
know enough about cannabis to have a sensible or helpful
(27:00):
discussion with their patients. Therefore, the patient goes to the
bud tender at the dispensary and says, what should I
get from my headache? And then the bud tender, who
is just basically a salesperson and a cannabis enthusiast, is
in the position of making medical recommendations. So I think
the more we get pharmacists some dispensaries have pharmacists in them,
(27:20):
some states mandate that, and the more we educate doctors
and nurses about cannabis, the less of this stuff we're
going to have going on.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Bud tender. I like that word, bud tender. It's a
kind of a new.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
They're like the nicest people you'll meet, and they're very enthusiastic.
But again they're not trained at all in anything by anybody.
They shouldn't be making medical recommendations.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Okay, how do you get a medical card? And what's
the advantage of the medical card? Well, at the dispensary,
I have gone too. There are two sides, one for
one for medical patients and one for the recreational patients.
And I know that there are different options for folks
over in the medical side, so there must be other
(28:01):
advantages to be in a medical patient.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Well, you used to need a medical card to access
medical cannabis in all states until it was the twenty
four that have legalized it recreationally. Now in Massachusetts it's
legal medically and recreationally. The medical card has become less
important because most of the stores are recreational stores, and
anybody who wants cannabis can disc go to a recreational store.
And you know, many people who buy cannabis from recreational
(28:26):
stores use it for medical purposes, for sleep, for pain,
and for anxiety. The main benefits of a medical card
are number one, you don't pay taxes, so twenty percent cheaper.
This is really important for older people or veterans, people
on fixed income who have a really hard time affording
the cannabis because it isn't paid for by health insurance.
But cannabis can also give you some job protections. A
medical card can give you some job protection. Today get
(28:48):
tested on your job that federal government still considers it illegal.
So if you work for the DEA or the FBI,
a medical card is not going to get you off
the hook for a positive test for cannabis. But many
employers in Massachusetts, if you have a medical card and
your drug test is negative except for cannabis, you could
just show them the medical card and say I use
it at night for sleep, I'm not impaired at all.
(29:08):
During the day, They'll look the other way. So it
really offers people protections in their employment.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Did we talk about taxes.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, you don't forget in Massachusetts, you don't pay twenty
percent tax sostea.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
In is a whopping tax.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, well, that's why we make so much money since
legalizing cannabis. Now we make more tax revenue from cannabis
than we do from alcohol. Last year we made it
like seventy two million dollars in tax revenue from cannabis
sales and only fifty million from alcohol. But part of
that's because the tax on cannabis is so high.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Okay, now we move into a new area. When you
go to the dispensary, you better bring cash because it's
cash only. It's a cash only business. Why because, well,
it's probably better if you explain why, because you're the expert.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Well, cannabis is legal recreationally in twenty four states, which
represents more than half of states. People live in or
half of the Americans live in recreational states. It's legal
in thirty eight states for medical marijuana. You know, most
Americans support medical marijuana, something like ninety three percent of
Americans support legal access to medical marijuana. But to the
(30:10):
federal government, it's still an illegal control substance Schedule one,
no medical utility, high abuse liability, neither of which is
is even remotely true, and so they consider it money
laundering and drug dealing. So you're not allowed to use
your MasterCard, you're not allowed to use your visa. You
just have to pay with cash or in a few states,
your bank card to get medical cannabis. And this is
(30:32):
so ironic because it just increases the possibility for crime
because these businesses have to do everything in cash, and
that's an invitation to robbery. And then they say, ah,
look there's crime associated with cannabis, and it's like, not
the cannabis, it's because you're not allowing people to use
credit cards and they have fifty thousand dollars worth of
cash lying around the dispensary. So once we get federal
(30:53):
cannabis legalization, which Donald Trump says he's supposedly in favor
of the who knows if anything he's saying is Joe
Biden was in favor of it, Kamala Harris is in favor.
Most Republicans and most Democrats are in favor of cannabis legalization.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Even Biden administration, they say they're in favorite favor of it.
But nothing can be done by executive order. Really, it
has to be a congressional I mean it has to be,
let's say done.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So what Donald Trump can do and he says he's
in favor of this is to deschedule it. Excuse me
to reschedule it. As I mentioned before, right now, cannabis
is Schedule one, which has no medical use and high
abuse liability, and they're talking about rescheduling it to Schedule three,
which is still restricted. Is like cough medicine with codeine
(31:39):
or like ketamine is Schedule three, but you can write
prescriptions for it. You can write refills for Schedule three drugs,
And that would really unlock a lot of research funding
for the cannabis scientists if it were easier to study.
It's much easier to study a less controlled substance.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
All right, after this break, I want to find out
if there have been any changes since marijuana became legal
in Massachusetts. Did the accident rate rise with the hospitalizations rise?
What would the you know what happened? You probably don't know.
I kind of know because I looked it up. But
(32:16):
we're going to have our expert tell us after this
on w BZY.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
That's right, we have a few minutes to talk about
cannabis with our friend and our expert here, doctor Peter Grinspoon,
and I promise to get the information on what has
have there been any downsides since medical since marijuana became
legal in Massachusetts? And so what are the numbers?
Speaker 5 (32:44):
Say?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I'm sure you look into it, that's what you do.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Well, there have definitely been some downsides since we've legalized cannabis,
but this has to be viewed in the context of
many fewer arrests and huge tax revenue to the state,
and the fact that using cannabis now that it's legal
as much safer as you mentioned, for it's labeled, it
doesn't have fungus, pesticides, heavy metals in it. The strength
of cannabis is much stronger than it used to be,
(33:08):
Like it used to be two to four percent TC,
and now it's over twenty percent, So we do have
accidental over consumptions, and the emergency room visits for accidental
over consumptions are going up, which is really unfortunate. Sometimes
these are even kids.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Now.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I wrote something as early as in twenty eighteen for
Harvard Health saying, if cannabis is medicine, don't make it
taste good. So we make these cannabis treats into little
gummies and chocolate bars, and people don't know. A four
year old doesn't know that it's cannabis in it, they'll
eat the whole thing and they'll get really sick. They
can end up in the hospital. So accidental over consumptions
are going up, so.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
They really had to make it taste bad. Taste like medicine.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You can get gummies, but they should be individually wrapped.
There shouldn't be a whole bag of gummies and you
have to store your gummies or your chocolate. I don't
think we should be making them into tasty treats any medicine.
Right a kid, if you make tile and all into
or ibuprofit into a yummy r elixir, the kid's gonna
drink the whole thing. So, but people have to be
responsible and store your cannabis where you'd store any other medication.
(34:08):
You can't leave it in the fridge. You've got to
put it in your medicine closet or lock it up
because it's a psychoactive substance. So accidental over consumptions have
gone up. Alcohol use might be going down, which is
really interesting because nobody could argue that cannabis is more
dangerous than alcohol.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Alcohol.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
There were one hundred and seventy eight thousand alcohol related
deaths last year. There are zero cannabis related deaths. What's
staying the same with legalization is teen usage is staying
about the same, which is really good. And there have
been no good evidence of increases in auto accidents. So
last alcohol the same use by teens. We don't want
teens using it, which we try to keep them away
(34:46):
from it hasn't gone up with legalization, but there have
been increases in hospitalizations from over consumption.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
How does cannabis compare to alcohol when it comes to
impairment and driving. We all know how alcohol impairs your driving,
but how impaired are you under the influence of cannabis.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Well, it depends how often you use it. If you
use a little bit every day, you're much less impaired
than if you use a huge amount once a month,
because you get tolerance and you get used to the effects.
But I looked into this very carefully for my recent book,
Seeing Through the Smoke and All things being equal, alcohol
increases your chances of an accident by about eight times.
In cannabis about doubles it. Now doubling it is huge.
(35:28):
I mean, you could kill a whole family with kids.
I mean, we don't recommend at all that people use
drive after using cannabis, And some studies are shown that
people feel like they can drive within an hour or
two after using cannabis, but then when they study the
standard lane deviation and the response times, it actually takes
three to four hours for the cannabis to wear off.
(35:49):
So we really don't recommend after smoking that you drive
for the next four hours, or after an edible that
you drive for the next eight hours. But given the
cannabis doubles your risk for an accident, it's important to
keep that in kind text. If that's about what all
the other drugs that we tell people not to drive
on that they ignore us as doctors and drive on
any ways, do like your opiates, your benzodazepines, your benadreaux,
(36:10):
your gabapentin, your antihistamines, those are about double your risk.
So we tell people not to drive in those. And
we don't want people driving on cannabis. But you know,
someone's a construction worker, they're in extreme pain. They're going
to pop a percocet on the way to work so
they can get through the day, or they're going to
take a puff of cannabis. We tell people not to
drive on these things. But you also have to understand
that people are miserable and they're doing the best they can,
(36:30):
and when people are desperate, they make bad choices.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
On a side note, the on that topic, one of
the causes of accidents, I believe was when people smoke
the joints in the car, they would drop an ash
on their lap and they would not be concentrating on
driving and maybe like swerve and crash.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I mean that happened right, Well, that happens with cigarettes
as well.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, that's true. Well, and I suppose the phone anything
else we want the couple we have all like three
minutes hospital. You mentioned hospitals. Oh, did you talk about
the already the hospitalization right, the overdose did increase.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Oh yeah, accidental over consumptions are leading both kids and
adults and even older adults into the hospital. And again
this could be avoided with education, with careful regulation of
the cannabis products, and with people remembering to start low
and to go slow and to work their way up
very slowly on the cannabis, on the cannabis dose. And
also again we are asking for trouble making cannabis into
(37:33):
chocolate bars, into little gummies that a little kid would eat,
and people have to store their cannabis much more safely.
And if we do those things, there are going to
be many fewer accidental overdoses.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
And I think you should really careful about cannabis laying
around if you have a dog, because they are the
gummies are sugary and THC is toxic to dogs.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, dogs get really, really sick. Interestingly, CBD has been
shown to help dogs with like osteoarthritis and with anxiety.
Say there afraid of thunderstorms, So people are using CBD.
A lot of veterinarians now sell CBD. But the TC,
the intoxicating part of cannabis can be really really disorienting
to dogs and make them really sick. And people think
it's cute to give their dogs cannabis, just like they
(38:13):
think it's cute to give their dog's alcohol. But I
think is really mean to the dog.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And a chocolate cannabis bar is a double whammy because
chocolate is poisonous to dogs. I don't know if you
know that, but it is. Never give you a dog
chocolate and if it has tac and that's doubly bad.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, that would be miserable for a dog. And again
it when people buy gummies and chocolate bars. You don't
think this is a medicine that needs to be in
the medicine cabinet, but it really is. And you can't
just leave it lying around.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And if you see a chocolate bar laying around the
house and somebody, if you visit somebody's house, see chocolate
bar laying around, do not eat it. Can you give
out your website again.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Sure, it's www dot Petergrinspoon dot com, Grinspoons g R
I N S p O O N. So it's just
my first name and my last name, Peter Grinspoon dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That's cool, great job, Thank you, for coming in. It's
great to see you again.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
This is awesome. It's great to hear that you're doing
so well. Guess who's up next. You're not gonna believe this, really,
you're not. Go ahead, guess wrong. Up next is Devo
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