October 16, 2025 • 38 mins
After Applegreen, the company originally awarded the contract to redevelop and operate 18 Massachusetts highway service plazas, backed out, MassDOT decided to start the bidding process all over again instead of awarding the contract to Global Partners, the second runner up. In addition, Thursday MassDOT Secretary Monica Tibbits-Nutt resigned. President and CEO of Global Partners, Eric Slifka commented on the latest and Boston Globe business reporter Jon Chesto checked in to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, it was a busy day here in Massachusetts in
terms of transportation issues. We're going to focus at the
beginning of this hour on the big Massachusetts Highway Masspike
service plaza deal with US. Is the president and CEO
of Global Partners, Eric Slipcup. Eric, welcome back to Nightside.
(00:30):
Global Partners was the runner up in this bid process,
and you folks had lots of concerns about it, and
you went to court and finally, finally Applegreen, the company
from Ireland which was awarded this humongous thirty five year
contract to to refurbish eleven plazas on the Turnpike as
(00:54):
well as about seven other highway plazas around the com
Wealth of Massachusetts, some of which you are are involved
with currently. Apple Green decided after they won the contract
to to withdraw and here we are a few months
later with some deadline, some hard deadlines looking at us
(01:18):
and the Comwealth of Massachusetts has decided or the transportation
to problem has decided to go back to square one
and and put the bid out uh and and you'll
compete for it, and there'll be some others, and you
don't seem all that upset with the fact that you
were not as I thought you should have been awarded
as the runner up the bid the contract or an
(01:41):
option to negotiate the contract once Apple Green withdrew. You
seem to be quite magnanimous here under this under the circumstances,
it's been a long and strange road that you've have
walked or ridden the last few months.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
First of all, I just want to say thank you
for taking an interest in this story very early on.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You know you really you really help bring attention to it,
and for that I am forever grateful, and so should
all the taxpayers in the state of Massachusetts be happy
they have someone like you who's willing to be diligent
and try to get at what the truth is and
(02:24):
do what's right for the state.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, you're very kind to say that. I appreciate it.
I just looked at the facts of the situation and
it cried out that there was something amiss because the
contract that you proposed, the offer that you made, and
if you want to mention it right now, returned the
heck of a lot more money to the state than
(02:47):
the applegreen offer. They contended that they were putting more
money in upfront, But either way, I think you, as
the home team, clearly should have won that contract. I
don't honestly understand why they re bidding it now, to
be honest with you, but my understanding is that you've
you've been pretty magnanimous in you're You've got to go
through this process again, which is obviously costly to everybody,
(03:10):
and it also means that maybe the service pasors will
not be fixed as quickly as they should be.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, and and and you know the contract, the current
contract ends at the end of December. I think that
current tenants were in process and figuring out what to do,
and so I'm not sure that that is what's best.
(03:39):
But I can tell you that we will stand tall.
We're currently running the fuel and the and the convenience
markets at the locations, and we'll still tall, and we
know that we can perform day in day out, and
we are there. You know. One of the things is,
you know, mass Dot basically we said themselves in their
(04:01):
own presentation yesterday yesterday that the procurement process was unusual
for them. You know, we helped to bring that to light,
and it clearly resonated with others you too, including you,
but there's also Senator my Tigney and many others who
have since called for oversight, you know, Apple Green's abrupt
(04:23):
withdrawal and the Secretary's sudden resignation. This process has definitely
raised serious questions and there are a lot of eyes
on it. For mass DOT, the cleanest way to restore
credibility and transparency was to start fresh, and we respect that.
Would we have liked to have been awarded the contract,
of course, you know, it would have been great, and
(04:45):
we thought we and we feel like, you know, we
offered the best value to the state. But we believe
the new process, you know, is the right path forward.
We look forward to participating in the rebid and helping
deliver the modern, locally driven plausa's Massachusetts travelers and taxpayers deserve.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I'll tell you this. The one thing that at
the end of this day that I'm encouraged by, and
I suspect you probably are as well. I think that
the interim Transportation Secretary, Phil Ang, who's now also the
general manager of the MBTA, my sense is he's a
straight shooter, and I know that John Gulliver, who I've
(05:28):
dealt with on many occasions. The mass Highway Administrator, Jonathan
Gulliver is somebody who is going to be an absolute
straight shooter on this. I have no clue as to
how much the retired or the resigned Mass Secretary Monica
Tibbet's not has, but she has been a whirlwind of
(05:50):
controversy from the day that she was appointed by Governor Healy.
And I have a lot more confidence that with Phil
Ang and Jonathan Gulliver that this situation will be resolved fairly.
And I don't know if you share that that that
that confidence, but I just want you to know that
(06:10):
from from where I'm sitting as somebody who's watched Massachusetts
politics for many, many years, I think it's going to
be a cleaner and and hopefully a more efficient process
with Phil Ang and Jonathan Gulliver at the hell And that's.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
My Yeah, we don't we don't have any history with
whether either of those folks, But hearing you say that
that holds that holds some sway and is important because
you know, you've been involved in sort of these processes
over the years, and so that's great to hear that
that you really support these folks because you think they've
(06:46):
got a good track record. So for me, that's music
to my ears.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, Eric, thank you very much for saying that. And
I'm going to be talking with John Cesto, who also
has followed this and has done a great job on this.
He really is has drilled down on a lot of this.
I want you to know I'm rooting for you. I
think you're the home team. You're a fortune five hundred company.
How many people do you employ here in Massachusetts these days?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Seventeen hundred in Massachusetts and we have our main office
here with about another eight hundred and fifty employees. So
we pay about one hundred and twenty five million in taxes.
And we have fifty four terminals throughout the country. That
means you buy ships and barges, and we have terminals
(07:37):
in Massachusetts really throughout New England as well, and those
can actually supply these service plazas as well. Right, And
so we think we're uniquely positioned to deliver not only
hospitality and a great offering, whether that's through our all
Town Fresh which is made to order sandwiches and food,
(08:00):
or or whether it's just a healthy snack that's on
the go for your kids as you're you know, running
off to soccer practice or off to some school event.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah. Well again, as I say, I'm rooting for you,
and particularly I reviewed what you had proposed. It's made
a lot of sense to me. I'm not an expert
in the area, but i also know the the integrity
of Global Partners is above approach. So I just I'm
(08:31):
rooting for you and I will continue to follow this
and hopefully we'll have another conversation which will be a
celebration that that the contract has been awarded to Global Partners.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Thanks so much, Eric, anytime, Dan, that would be great.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Sounds great. Well, we'll look forward to that day and
hopefully it'll be sooner than later. Thanks again, Thanks so much, Eric,
best of luck.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You've got it. Thank you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
All right, we get back and to be talking with
John Chester of the Boston Globe, and if you would
like to join the conversation, we'll be taking some phone calls.
This is a This is not an easy subject to understand,
but I think many of you do, and I feel
free to to join the conversation. The Heally administration has
been rocked by this. This is one that has opened up.
(09:17):
I think some fissiers in the in the Heally administration
and the resignation coming today by the Transportation secretary, who,
by the way, came in from Ohio. And I don't
want to sound like a total homer, but look, in
Massachusetts we do have I think the best and brightest
uh And I think that that any governor should look
(09:39):
first and foremost to Massachusetts talent, whether that is again
a company like Global Partners that can do the job,
or people who probably could have been a more certainly
a weare and cognizant of how things have gone in Massachusetts.
This secretary, not if it was or less, named Monica
(10:01):
Tibbet's nut. She was talking from the get go about
taxing everything, well not quite everything, just two things, everything
that moved and everything that didn't move. Back with John Chester,
the Boston GLOBEESO, who's going to be filling a little
bit of the background on this story so you will
be totally up to date. Coming back on Nightside right
after this break. If you want to join the conversation,
(10:22):
we'll start it at shortly six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty will get you in six one, seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty Will as well.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on you Bzy,
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Really looking forward to chatting with John Chesto of the
Boston Globe, extraordinary business reporter. He has been on this
story from the get go, the headline today in Today's
Boston Globe. But d one above, you know above the
full mastert to put Plaza contract back out to bid. Boy,
this sames. This sounds to me like we've seen this
(10:58):
movie before. John, Oh, I guess this was the decision
they had to make, But this thing's not going to
get done on time as a consequence of the time
that has been lost in this first flawed bid process.
Good evening, welcome.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
You know, I think most people that I've talked to
over the last month about this, ever since Applegreen pulled
out of the deal, but basically saying it's going to
be hard for her to pick Global because Global has
been beating up on when I say her, the Healey administration,
(11:34):
it's hard for the Healey administrations to go with Global
because Global's beating up on the Healey administration all summer long,
and it just you know, sends the wrong message if
you kind of give in after that. Yeah, Global has
a lot of good points. But but you know, usually
when someone feels they've been wronged, they they do you know,
(11:57):
they'll file a lawsuit and say, you know, there was
something wrong with this bid process. But Global, as you know,
went a few steps further and really went on a
public campaign against the Healey administration over this.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But I also think that sometimes if you file in court,
you know, within the Superior Court, you're dealing with judges
who have been appointed by governors, and then sort of
you now you're playing an away game. But when you
go out into the court of public opinion, as they
did with you, you know, as really the lead person
(12:33):
in the Globe on this and the lead person of
the story, I got interested in the story because because
I read your stuff in the Globe and I thought,
to myself, this doesn't quite add up here. I think
that the Global partners taking it into the court of
public opinion was a smart thing to do, and I
think it would have been smarter for the Healthy administration
(12:55):
to turn around and say, you know what, maybe there
was a flari in the process. But we have two
We had two really qualified finalists. One is withdrawn and
Global Partners gets the contract, and I think that would
have quieted the this this storm. But you know what
happens if they go through this again and Global Partners
finishes either out of the running or finishes number two.
(13:17):
What do you think's gonna happen?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, definitely, I have some deja vu.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Let've seen this movie before.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Me know, it's worth noting to your listeners that they
were already against a very tough time frame. They to
replace the current operators McDonald's and Golf. They wanted out
as of January first of this year, and and and
so mass the mass that board felt like they had
to They couldn't really question the process. They got the
(13:49):
recommendation from the staff in June to go with Applegreen
over Global Partners. And they really had to go because
you had six months to get ready for a massive
construction project and which half of the service plaza buildings
would be really placed entirely and the other half would
be significantly renovated. So now they're in the tough spot
(14:13):
of having almost no negotiating cloud. They have to go
back to McDonald's and Golf, and with hat in hand
and say, oh, can you give us an extension on
the lease. Literally, they had not started the mass Highway.
Folks said to me yesterday they're going to start. Yesterday
is when they're going to start reaching out to them
to negotiate, and so there's not a lot of time
(14:36):
to do that. There are some maintenance issues that have
been put off and they're going to have to negotiate
that as part of the least extension as well. And
so the state's kind of over a barrel here in
terms of getting these projects done.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
So the.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Healy administration had away the inconvenience of going back and
negotiating that lease versus working with a partner that the
Healthy administration felt was somewhat hostile to them.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
But I don't think hostility should be the factor. The
factor is Global Partners is a big Massachusetts company. I
looked at those statistics and the contract, the proposal, theF.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
They offered a lot more money over thirty five years
than that Apple Green did. That's for sure. Yeah, they
the I think you could argue Apple Green because it
already had a construction partner, Suffolk Construction could have got
started on the construction faster. But you know, Globals a
(15:38):
very well financed, publicly traded company. You know, they could
have handled the project as well. They would have had
to bring in a construction partner, and maybe they would
have gone off to a slower start because they got
the impression Apple Green in Suffolk where they were like
ready to go, and they were already you know, looking
scoping out what permits they need to file, et cetera,
which is a little further along where Global was. But
(16:02):
Global could have caught it up with that.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Why do you think a Green? John? And again, I
assume you probably have written about this, why do you
think Apple Green? They went through this entire process, They
responded to the RP, they won the bid, and then
they pulled out. That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yeah, there was so part of the issue. They won
the bid in June, but then they had to do negotiate.
They had to do specific negotiations over the leases, and
they were sort of you know, the crossing of the
t's and the dotting of the eyes. Like for example,
one issue that came up was do do we have
(16:39):
to keep all our restaurants open you know all the time?
You know, do you really want to have like a
do you need to have like a I don't know,
a chicken restaurant open at five in the morning. These
are the discussions that they were still sort of working on. Meanwhile,
Global actually sued the state. You know, first they sued
the state for public records, and clearly they were building
(17:02):
a legal case the process was flawed. So then once
they had the public records that they felt thought from
you know, Butcher's that case, they then amended their lawsuit
to say this was a flawed procurement. Now you've got
to remember, Apple Green is owned by Blackstone, a huge
private equity firm, and Blackstone has been actively involved in
(17:25):
this as well. And we don't know for sure how
much of the decision making was Blackstone versus Apple Green,
but certainly there was consultation with you know, their largest
financial backer.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
My understanding is that they might break this out into
two contracts, this this next IRFP part to deal with
the construction separately, and then.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
That would be interesting. I mean I haven't heard that,
but it you know, it's a different skill set to
run the service plazas and golf is running four and
they call it the four Bees. The two in Bridgewater,
one in Barnstable, one in Beverly Golf is already running
for them, and Golf runs the convenience stores and the
(18:15):
gas stations on the pike on behalf of McDonald's, and
Sorry Global runs the four Bees and run Global is
already running on behalf of Golf and McDonald's the convenience
stores and the service stations on the pike. So they
already have experienced running these, maybe less experience than Apple
(18:37):
Green building them, because Applegreen is rebuilt. You know, you've
seen them in New York, You've seen them in New Jersey.
Apple Green has rebuilt service plausas. So it would make
sense to kind of say, Okay, here's a construction project
versus here's an operations project. But the idea is here,
you do it as one because the work, you know,
(18:58):
the investment, well, we'll kind of pay for itself over time.
You know, you're basically getting a company willing to put
in the investments knowing that they're going to bring in
more revenue versus if you to pay for the construction
project over time, versus paying out hiring a company to build,
you basically have to write a check. Essentially, this way
(19:22):
that the companies kind of write the check and take
the risk and get the revenue back over time. So
it's it's you know, you know, argument can made for
both approaches, but I can see the reason why the
state decided to put these together.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well yeah, I'm just saying that under the circumstances, I'm
wondering if that's going to be a possible. Hey, we
got to take a quick break. I want to get
some phone calls. And I also want to ask you
about the coincidence of the decision being made today that
the new proposal would be circulated and actually they were
going to now according to your column, go and talk
(19:55):
to the full there were six companies that bid, four
of whom were eliminated initially. Then it came down to
Apple Green and Global Partners. And it sounds to me
like mass Cot is going to now invite all six,
including Apple Green and Global Partners and the other four
which were eliminated to rebid, and I guess open it
up to any other new bidders that might want to
come in, which is only going to make the thing
(20:17):
even more But I want to ask you about the
coincidence of Secretary nut resigning today. She was not available
to the best of my knowledge to anyone today, So
we want to talk about that as well. If that's
okay with you, My guest is John Chesto, Boston Globe
Business columnists must read in the Boston Globe. No doubt.
(20:38):
We'll be back on Nightside if you like to express
an opinion or ask a question of John chest No
one knows it better than John Chestow six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten
thirty Back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
This, It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
All right, let's get back with John Cesto. John. The
coincidence of the Transportation Secretary Monica Tibbet's Nutt resigning today
after a couple of pretty controversial years in her position
coincidence or do you think it has something to do
with with this This whole project is now heading after
(21:25):
a false start for several months.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
I can I find it hard to believe that it's
a coincidence that happening the day after MASSOT announced that
it was going to scrap the current tournament and start
fresh on the Service Plaza contract. Now, whether you know
how the governor, you know, sort of prodded her to
(21:50):
leave or whether she knew her time was up and
asked to leave and the governor said, wait until we've
got the decision and we've got this issue settled. I
can't say for sure. I do know the govern her
when asked today by the media, said it had nothing
to do with her departure. Uh, you know, the service
Plaza contract or the other controversies were not why she left.
(22:12):
But I mean it, you know, it's it was just
a day after this happened, and and notably she wasn't
he didn't even have a one of these lamee boiler
played quotes from her in the press release announcing it. So, uh,
it's pretty clear that the that her tenure had to end.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
You know, the governor's facing a very challenging re election year.
You know, she still polls well, but she has three
I would say, three strong Republican candidates vuying for that job.
And and believe me, there they the mascot was definitely
in their sights. Yeah, you know, it really was. It
(22:56):
was a political liability for now. You know, the biggest
is she you know, the biggest controversy I guess you
could say was when she spoke to a group called
walk Massachusetts and talked about, you know, putting tolls everywhere essentially,
and the quotes kind of emerged a little bit later,
(23:17):
and she was publicly chastised for it and sort of
sidelined on the task force that she was supposed to
be running because you know, the governor really didn't like
the message that was being sent there. Uh but you know,
she just you know, it's kind of hard to replace
your transportation secretary after your previous transportation secretary that was
(23:40):
Genie FIANDACA really wasn't there that long either, So I
don't think it's a coincidence. I know the administration will
publicly say it's a coincidence. But you know, during this
whole service service plaza controversy, I can't tell you how
many people who do speak to the governor regularly would
say she's I cannot believe how well, like when is
(24:02):
Monica leaving? You know, So it was one of these
things that you know, in fact, we even had a
story essentially saying that posing that question before the service
plaza controversy blew up. So one other thing you may remember,
you know, there are two major infrastructure projects that that
(24:25):
were under mass Dot's purview. One the realignment of the
turnpike in Austin, and the other take Cod bridges, and
the governor brought in Lusa Polonsky to basically run those
two because she wasn't satisfied with how they were being handled. Uh.
So you know, there, there's there's definitely been some challenges
(24:48):
under Monica's tenure during her time as Transportation Secretary. That's sure.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, you know, it's interesting. I have the same skepticism
did you have. The governor today said that Monica nut
was moving on to the private sector, but one Nutt
was not available today as far as I could tell,
I watched the evening newscast and then didn't see any
comment from her. Uh, Nor did I see anything from
the governor beyond she was moving to the private sector
(25:15):
that covers a vast variety of opportunities. Uh. And Nutt
is she was She's not from Massachusetts. I hate to
sound parochial or like a hometown person, but I think
it's tough to break in here in many respects it is.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
But I'm going to present you with a counterpoint. Sure,
look at look at Phil aang sill An came in
from New York and has done very well. He is,
you know, obviously he's at least, you know, temporarily taking
Monica's job as well as running the tea. And he's
well regarded by just about everyone. So but generally speaking,
(25:55):
you know, this place could eat you alive if you're
not careful.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah. And by the way, you know, if if if
you did not if you were not skeptical of the circumstances. Obviously,
it was a question that I asked. I think I
knew what you would say if you were not skeptical.
I was prepared to sell you a stretch of the
Massachusetts Turnpike tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I'll take the Charlton Plaza.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
No no, no, not the positive, just a stretch of
the road. That's all.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I want something that can make money on.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, no, no, we don't do maybe next time. Okay,
let's uh, okay, let let's see if we get some
phone calls six one seven, six seven, nine, three thirty.
Let me go first off to Bill in Boston. Bill,
thank you for your patience. You're on with John Chestel
or the Boston Globe.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Hey, hey there, Dan, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
In John, pleasure to speak with you. John'm just curious
you know, as someone who of course very closely follows
this situation very very closely, I'm curious that given a
secretary nuts sudden resignation, and Apple Green's unexpected withdrawal, and
and the fact that Global Partners a time local operator
that offered strong financials, does it seem to you now
(27:04):
that the Mascot process was flawed from the start, and
do you think the new Big process will actually fix
those issues or just put a new face on an
old problem.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Great question, It.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Is a great question, and that it is the fundamental
question that Jonathan Gulver, who is now under Secuary Transportation
and is also the highway administrator, who basically is on
his shoulders now he is the question, needs to answer.
I think there were flaws in the process. What I
would say is one of the biggest flaws was the
(27:39):
scorecard they used it. You know, they evaluated the two
finalists based on a scorecard for different categories, and I
found them the evaluation to be problematic because the revenue
category they actually ordered more points to Applegreen than Global
(28:02):
and then even though Global actually offered more revenue. So
when I pushed them on that, they said, well, we
don't really trust globals revenue figures. So it made me
it was putting sort of an objectivity on something that
really was subjective. I mean, it's let's just call space base.
If that's what it is, just say that's why we're
(28:22):
not picking them. But instead they have this whole grid
of how to rank them, and I was a little
skeptical of that grid. And so they're going to go
Jonathan Oliver told me he's going to go to all
of the bidders. There were six originally. It's not clear
to me how many dropped out or or just didn't
(28:44):
make the final round because their bid wasn't good enough.
I think several did drop out early. Well, he's going
to go back to them and the other four that
didn't make it to the final round and find out, like,
what can we do to improve it. I think it's
an honest effort on his part. I think we'll see
Global bid again. I don't know if we'll see Apple
Green Bit again. I know they're interested in bidding again,
(29:04):
but like I said, Blackstone has the final say on that.
Can it be improved? Yes, I have followed it all
the way from the start. I've been following it for
the past year. They have not let much information out,
and I did not get any sense that things were
awry really until you know, Global sort of fought back
(29:30):
with their own explanation for why they should have been
picked to run it, and you know, I think they
make some good points. I also understand this wasn't all
about the money. This was also about getting a big
investment that we could really, you know, have enough money
to have eighteen beautiful new buildings, either brand new or
(29:54):
signicalantly renovated. And Apple Green promised a much more expansive
rebuild and Global did so I see why that was
more attractive to the state. So it's not like we
can just say, okay, Global offered a much better bid.
Why it doesn't make sense why Apple Green was picked.
Global offered a lot more in revenue, but Apple Green
(30:17):
had more ambitious capital investment. Now the state has to decide, well,
what are the most important things? What are we trying
to get out of It should just be about revenue.
I don't think it'll be totally about revenue will be
a factor, but how much of a factor All of
that's going to be weighed as they go back and
interview all the bidding teams and find out what happened.
(30:39):
Why did you pull out early?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Bottom line too, gentlemen, is this is a huge contract.
This is a contract that is going to run into
the year two thy sixty. It's a thirty five year contract.
And the money that we were talking about was the
amount of money that would come back to the state.
You got to multiply that by a function of at
least twenty or twenty five as to what the value
(31:02):
of the contract would be to the winning didder. This
is a huge contract.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
And it also think about you know, Global Partners, was
you know, going to send one point five billion back
to the state over thirty five years. Yeah, multiply that,
like you said, by twenty because that's it's sort of
a percentage of of the revenue that they're getting. Yes,
it's a lot of money. Although I have to say
(31:27):
I've been surprised for by how both sides have really
dug in over the last few months over this. For
it's even though it's it's it is a ton of money.
Both of these companies and Stuffolk concluded, which is a
contractor for for Apple Green. They're large companies, so you
(31:48):
know this wasn't a make or break it deal for them.
They could have just left it, let it be, but
they slugged it out.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, but it's still you're right. They neither one of
them left it until the award was made. Hey, Bill,
thank you very much for your call. Appreciate your perspective
and questions.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
If anyone else would like to join, if you give
us a quick call, try to get you in. After
the break with John Chesto of the Boston Globe six
one seven four ten thirty six one seven nine three
one ten thirty jump on board, coming up in about
ten minutes of ten here on a Thursday night. Actually,
I think right now it's nine forty nine. We're a
little bit late for the break back. Right after this
(32:32):
with John Chesto, business reporter second to none as far
as I'm concerned in this city from the Boston Globe.
Back after this on Night Side.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Radio, joined by John Chesto of the Boston Globe. John,
just you know this better. You know this better than
than anyone that I know. Uh, it's now literally the
middle of October, October sixteenth. How long do you think
it will take this second process to play out between
(33:07):
you know, the solicitation of a bids, the bid process,
and the awarding of Are we talking about another year
or someone?
Speaker 4 (33:18):
I think, I think no, I've you surprised if they
can do this an under a year. You know, this
whole process started. I mean these bids just to give
you a sense of timing, the six bids that initially
came in around this time last year, and now they
have to redo the process. They can't just put it
(33:40):
out the same way they had it last year because
obviously they want to improve it. So they do have
a time in mind. Like I said last time, they
were focusing on January first of this year because so
many of the contracts we're going to expire and are
going to expire, they need to get least extensions now.
(34:00):
Now you know I mentioned the Global has four plausas
that it runs out right, the two in Bridgewater, one
in Barnsaball, and one in Beverly. Those expire in mid
twenty twenty seven, so they are trying to get it
done by then, and so they don't have to redo those,
you know, get a least extension there either. I think
(34:21):
that's a about right. You know even that you know
it's you you know there's a six month transition period
at least, which is you know, you've got to file
permits for renovations. You know, you're not going to start
renovating all the buildings on day one, but you're you're
going to want to get going right away. So it's
(34:41):
it's a tight timeframe to even meet that goal of
mid twenty twenty seven to turn over to a new user,
assuming Global doesn't win it in the next round, and
maybe they'll maybe that gives Global a little bit of
an edge. I don't know, we'll see, but it's it's
it can death point. It'd be shocked if they can
(35:02):
do this in under a year.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
The the other thing that to me is interesting is
that that's going to bring us well into if it's
a year, it's going to bring us right up to
the election of next November when Governor Healy is up
for reelection. So this this time all right.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
I did The timing was not lost on me there. Yeah,
I would not be surprised if this this decision is
made after that election. Uh, you know, it's it's now
become what seemed like a fairly straightforward public private partnership
has now become a political football, and I would not
(35:41):
be surprised if, you know, if there's a chance that
you know you're going to decide, you know, what to do,
who to pick in October, well, let's just's wait, maybe
we wait until December for that choice.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah. And also it's against the backdrop now of a
lengthening list of cabinets secretaries who have resigned, you know,
two in the Department of Transportation, the Veteran Services Secretary
John Santiago left in August. Health and Hermits Services Secretary
Kate Walsh departed earlier this year, Economic Development Secretary Yvonne
(36:17):
Howe in April of this year, public Safety Secretary Terrence Reid.
It's been a year of a great deal of turmoil
within the Heally administration's cabinet, and I'm sure that's going
to be an issue that any all, if some, if
not all, of her potential Republican opponents are going to
(36:39):
be talking about throughout the year, through the Republican primary,
and then next September and October right up until the election.
This has to be a disappointment for the governor for
this thing to have blown up in her face.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Oh, I'm sure it is.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I think that it seemed like it was going smoothly
until it wasn't. You know, could have been a very
They were ready to uh you know, probably brag of
these beautiful new service plausas that we're going to uh
come to come to fruition through this ingenious uh you know,
(37:17):
getting process. Uh and then it kind of all fell apart.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
So I will say about the turnover, Yes, there's been
a lot of turnover. Typically those first two years you
generally have the same cabinet, and then after two years,
you know, you're most of your talented cabinet secretaries can
usually make more in the private sector.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
And so we are seeing that sort of natural turnover.
I think to some extent there was question about whether
uh or heally was going to run again or go
to Washington. And I think that question was answered, yes
by the election cidential election. But I mean that I
think you know, people probably thought, well, we'll stay along
(38:06):
at least until then. Then see what happened.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
John Chester was always one of my best, my most
favorite guests. Thank you so much. This is a complicated story.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, this this one. It has been a complicated one,
and you know the the fun never seems stand with well.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I think we'll have a few more of these sessions
before it's founding. Thanks. John talks soon next piece of
the Globe, John Chester, the Washington Globe. Everyone, we get
back on to talk about some ugly comments made by
a group of young Republicans, complete knuckleheads, who I want
to call on the carpet. I hope you will as well,
coming back on Night's side right after the news at
(38:45):
ten o'clock here on WBZ Boston.
It's Nightside with Dray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, it was a busy day here in Massachusetts in
terms of transportation issues. We're going to focus at the
beginning of this hour on the big Massachusetts Highway Masspike
service plaza deal with US. Is the president and CEO
of Global Partners, Eric Slipcup. Eric, welcome back to Nightside.
(00:30):
Global Partners was the runner up in this bid process,
and you folks had lots of concerns about it, and
you went to court and finally, finally Applegreen, the company
from Ireland which was awarded this humongous thirty five year
contract to to refurbish eleven plazas on the Turnpike as
(00:54):
well as about seven other highway plazas around the com
Wealth of Massachusetts, some of which you are are involved
with currently. Apple Green decided after they won the contract
to to withdraw and here we are a few months
later with some deadline, some hard deadlines looking at us
(01:18):
and the Comwealth of Massachusetts has decided or the transportation
to problem has decided to go back to square one
and and put the bid out uh and and you'll
compete for it, and there'll be some others, and you
don't seem all that upset with the fact that you
were not as I thought you should have been awarded
as the runner up the bid the contract or an
(01:41):
option to negotiate the contract once Apple Green withdrew. You
seem to be quite magnanimous here under this under the circumstances,
it's been a long and strange road that you've have
walked or ridden the last few months.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
First of all, I just want to say thank you
for taking an interest in this story very early on.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You know you really you really help bring attention to it,
and for that I am forever grateful, and so should
all the taxpayers in the state of Massachusetts be happy
they have someone like you who's willing to be diligent
and try to get at what the truth is and
(02:24):
do what's right for the state.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, you're very kind to say that. I appreciate it.
I just looked at the facts of the situation and
it cried out that there was something amiss because the
contract that you proposed, the offer that you made, and
if you want to mention it right now, returned the
heck of a lot more money to the state than
(02:47):
the applegreen offer. They contended that they were putting more
money in upfront, But either way, I think you, as
the home team, clearly should have won that contract. I
don't honestly understand why they re bidding it now, to
be honest with you, but my understanding is that you've
you've been pretty magnanimous in you're You've got to go
through this process again, which is obviously costly to everybody,
(03:10):
and it also means that maybe the service pasors will
not be fixed as quickly as they should be.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, and and and you know the contract, the current
contract ends at the end of December. I think that
current tenants were in process and figuring out what to do,
and so I'm not sure that that is what's best.
(03:39):
But I can tell you that we will stand tall.
We're currently running the fuel and the and the convenience
markets at the locations, and we'll still tall, and we
know that we can perform day in day out, and
we are there. You know. One of the things is,
you know, mass Dot basically we said themselves in their
(04:01):
own presentation yesterday yesterday that the procurement process was unusual
for them. You know, we helped to bring that to light,
and it clearly resonated with others you too, including you,
but there's also Senator my Tigney and many others who
have since called for oversight, you know, Apple Green's abrupt
(04:23):
withdrawal and the Secretary's sudden resignation. This process has definitely
raised serious questions and there are a lot of eyes
on it. For mass DOT, the cleanest way to restore
credibility and transparency was to start fresh, and we respect that.
Would we have liked to have been awarded the contract,
of course, you know, it would have been great, and
(04:45):
we thought we and we feel like, you know, we
offered the best value to the state. But we believe
the new process, you know, is the right path forward.
We look forward to participating in the rebid and helping
deliver the modern, locally driven plausa's Massachusetts travelers and taxpayers deserve.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I'll tell you this. The one thing that at
the end of this day that I'm encouraged by, and
I suspect you probably are as well. I think that
the interim Transportation Secretary, Phil Ang, who's now also the
general manager of the MBTA, my sense is he's a
straight shooter, and I know that John Gulliver, who I've
(05:28):
dealt with on many occasions. The mass Highway Administrator, Jonathan
Gulliver is somebody who is going to be an absolute
straight shooter on this. I have no clue as to
how much the retired or the resigned Mass Secretary Monica
Tibbet's not has, but she has been a whirlwind of
(05:50):
controversy from the day that she was appointed by Governor Healy.
And I have a lot more confidence that with Phil
Ang and Jonathan Gulliver that this situation will be resolved fairly.
And I don't know if you share that that that
that confidence, but I just want you to know that
(06:10):
from from where I'm sitting as somebody who's watched Massachusetts
politics for many, many years, I think it's going to
be a cleaner and and hopefully a more efficient process
with Phil Ang and Jonathan Gulliver at the hell And that's.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
My Yeah, we don't we don't have any history with
whether either of those folks, But hearing you say that
that holds that holds some sway and is important because
you know, you've been involved in sort of these processes
over the years, and so that's great to hear that
that you really support these folks because you think they've
(06:46):
got a good track record. So for me, that's music
to my ears.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, Eric, thank you very much for saying that. And
I'm going to be talking with John Cesto, who also
has followed this and has done a great job on this.
He really is has drilled down on a lot of this.
I want you to know I'm rooting for you. I
think you're the home team. You're a fortune five hundred company.
How many people do you employ here in Massachusetts these days?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Seventeen hundred in Massachusetts and we have our main office
here with about another eight hundred and fifty employees. So
we pay about one hundred and twenty five million in taxes.
And we have fifty four terminals throughout the country. That
means you buy ships and barges, and we have terminals
(07:37):
in Massachusetts really throughout New England as well, and those
can actually supply these service plazas as well. Right, And
so we think we're uniquely positioned to deliver not only
hospitality and a great offering, whether that's through our all
Town Fresh which is made to order sandwiches and food,
(08:00):
or or whether it's just a healthy snack that's on
the go for your kids as you're you know, running
off to soccer practice or off to some school event.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah. Well again, as I say, I'm rooting for you,
and particularly I reviewed what you had proposed. It's made
a lot of sense to me. I'm not an expert
in the area, but i also know the the integrity
of Global Partners is above approach. So I just I'm
(08:31):
rooting for you and I will continue to follow this
and hopefully we'll have another conversation which will be a
celebration that that the contract has been awarded to Global Partners.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Thanks so much, Eric, anytime, Dan, that would be great.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Sounds great. Well, we'll look forward to that day and
hopefully it'll be sooner than later. Thanks again, Thanks so much, Eric,
best of luck.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You've got it. Thank you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
All right, we get back and to be talking with
John Chester of the Boston Globe, and if you would
like to join the conversation, we'll be taking some phone calls.
This is a This is not an easy subject to understand,
but I think many of you do, and I feel
free to to join the conversation. The Heally administration has
been rocked by this. This is one that has opened up.
(09:17):
I think some fissiers in the in the Heally administration
and the resignation coming today by the Transportation secretary, who,
by the way, came in from Ohio. And I don't
want to sound like a total homer, but look, in
Massachusetts we do have I think the best and brightest
uh And I think that that any governor should look
(09:39):
first and foremost to Massachusetts talent, whether that is again
a company like Global Partners that can do the job,
or people who probably could have been a more certainly
a weare and cognizant of how things have gone in Massachusetts.
This secretary, not if it was or less, named Monica
(10:01):
Tibbet's nut. She was talking from the get go about
taxing everything, well not quite everything, just two things, everything
that moved and everything that didn't move. Back with John Chester,
the Boston GLOBEESO, who's going to be filling a little
bit of the background on this story so you will
be totally up to date. Coming back on Nightside right
after this break. If you want to join the conversation,
(10:22):
we'll start it at shortly six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty will get you in six one, seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty Will as well.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on you Bzy,
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Really looking forward to chatting with John Chesto of the
Boston Globe, extraordinary business reporter. He has been on this
story from the get go, the headline today in Today's
Boston Globe. But d one above, you know above the
full mastert to put Plaza contract back out to bid. Boy,
this sames. This sounds to me like we've seen this
(10:58):
movie before. John, Oh, I guess this was the decision
they had to make, But this thing's not going to
get done on time as a consequence of the time
that has been lost in this first flawed bid process.
Good evening, welcome.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
You know, I think most people that I've talked to
over the last month about this, ever since Applegreen pulled
out of the deal, but basically saying it's going to
be hard for her to pick Global because Global has
been beating up on when I say her, the Healey administration,
(11:34):
it's hard for the Healey administrations to go with Global
because Global's beating up on the Healey administration all summer long,
and it just you know, sends the wrong message if
you kind of give in after that. Yeah, Global has
a lot of good points. But but you know, usually
when someone feels they've been wronged, they they do you know,
(11:57):
they'll file a lawsuit and say, you know, there was
something wrong with this bid process. But Global, as you know,
went a few steps further and really went on a
public campaign against the Healey administration over this.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But I also think that sometimes if you file in court,
you know, within the Superior Court, you're dealing with judges
who have been appointed by governors, and then sort of
you now you're playing an away game. But when you
go out into the court of public opinion, as they
did with you, you know, as really the lead person
(12:33):
in the Globe on this and the lead person of
the story, I got interested in the story because because
I read your stuff in the Globe and I thought,
to myself, this doesn't quite add up here. I think
that the Global partners taking it into the court of
public opinion was a smart thing to do, and I
think it would have been smarter for the Healthy administration
(12:55):
to turn around and say, you know what, maybe there
was a flari in the process. But we have two
We had two really qualified finalists. One is withdrawn and
Global Partners gets the contract, and I think that would
have quieted the this this storm. But you know what
happens if they go through this again and Global Partners
finishes either out of the running or finishes number two.
(13:17):
What do you think's gonna happen?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, definitely, I have some deja vu.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Let've seen this movie before.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Me know, it's worth noting to your listeners that they
were already against a very tough time frame. They to
replace the current operators McDonald's and Golf. They wanted out
as of January first of this year, and and and
so mass the mass that board felt like they had
to They couldn't really question the process. They got the
(13:49):
recommendation from the staff in June to go with Applegreen
over Global Partners. And they really had to go because
you had six months to get ready for a massive
construction project and which half of the service plaza buildings
would be really placed entirely and the other half would
be significantly renovated. So now they're in the tough spot
(14:13):
of having almost no negotiating cloud. They have to go
back to McDonald's and Golf, and with hat in hand
and say, oh, can you give us an extension on
the lease. Literally, they had not started the mass Highway.
Folks said to me yesterday they're going to start. Yesterday
is when they're going to start reaching out to them
to negotiate, and so there's not a lot of time
(14:36):
to do that. There are some maintenance issues that have
been put off and they're going to have to negotiate
that as part of the least extension as well. And
so the state's kind of over a barrel here in
terms of getting these projects done.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
So the.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Healy administration had away the inconvenience of going back and
negotiating that lease versus working with a partner that the
Healthy administration felt was somewhat hostile to them.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
But I don't think hostility should be the factor. The
factor is Global Partners is a big Massachusetts company. I
looked at those statistics and the contract, the proposal, theF.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
They offered a lot more money over thirty five years
than that Apple Green did. That's for sure. Yeah, they
the I think you could argue Apple Green because it
already had a construction partner, Suffolk Construction could have got
started on the construction faster. But you know, Globals a
(15:38):
very well financed, publicly traded company. You know, they could
have handled the project as well. They would have had
to bring in a construction partner, and maybe they would
have gone off to a slower start because they got
the impression Apple Green in Suffolk where they were like
ready to go, and they were already you know, looking
scoping out what permits they need to file, et cetera,
which is a little further along where Global was. But
(16:02):
Global could have caught it up with that.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Why do you think a Green? John? And again, I
assume you probably have written about this, why do you
think Apple Green? They went through this entire process, They
responded to the RP, they won the bid, and then
they pulled out. That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yeah, there was so part of the issue. They won
the bid in June, but then they had to do negotiate.
They had to do specific negotiations over the leases, and
they were sort of you know, the crossing of the
t's and the dotting of the eyes. Like for example,
one issue that came up was do do we have
(16:39):
to keep all our restaurants open you know all the time?
You know, do you really want to have like a
do you need to have like a I don't know,
a chicken restaurant open at five in the morning. These
are the discussions that they were still sort of working on. Meanwhile,
Global actually sued the state. You know, first they sued
the state for public records, and clearly they were building
(17:02):
a legal case the process was flawed. So then once
they had the public records that they felt thought from
you know, Butcher's that case, they then amended their lawsuit
to say this was a flawed procurement. Now you've got
to remember, Apple Green is owned by Blackstone, a huge
private equity firm, and Blackstone has been actively involved in
(17:25):
this as well. And we don't know for sure how
much of the decision making was Blackstone versus Apple Green,
but certainly there was consultation with you know, their largest
financial backer.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
My understanding is that they might break this out into
two contracts, this this next IRFP part to deal with
the construction separately, and then.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
That would be interesting. I mean I haven't heard that,
but it you know, it's a different skill set to
run the service plazas and golf is running four and
they call it the four Bees. The two in Bridgewater,
one in Barnstable, one in Beverly Golf is already running
for them, and Golf runs the convenience stores and the
(18:15):
gas stations on the pike on behalf of McDonald's, and
Sorry Global runs the four Bees and run Global is
already running on behalf of Golf and McDonald's the convenience
stores and the service stations on the pike. So they
already have experienced running these, maybe less experience than Apple
(18:37):
Green building them, because Applegreen is rebuilt. You know, you've
seen them in New York, You've seen them in New Jersey.
Apple Green has rebuilt service plausas. So it would make
sense to kind of say, Okay, here's a construction project
versus here's an operations project. But the idea is here,
you do it as one because the work, you know,
(18:58):
the investment, well, we'll kind of pay for itself over time.
You know, you're basically getting a company willing to put
in the investments knowing that they're going to bring in
more revenue versus if you to pay for the construction
project over time, versus paying out hiring a company to build,
you basically have to write a check. Essentially, this way
(19:22):
that the companies kind of write the check and take
the risk and get the revenue back over time. So
it's it's you know, you know, argument can made for
both approaches, but I can see the reason why the
state decided to put these together.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well yeah, I'm just saying that under the circumstances, I'm
wondering if that's going to be a possible. Hey, we
got to take a quick break. I want to get
some phone calls. And I also want to ask you
about the coincidence of the decision being made today that
the new proposal would be circulated and actually they were
going to now according to your column, go and talk
(19:55):
to the full there were six companies that bid, four
of whom were eliminated initially. Then it came down to
Apple Green and Global Partners. And it sounds to me
like mass Cot is going to now invite all six,
including Apple Green and Global Partners and the other four
which were eliminated to rebid, and I guess open it
up to any other new bidders that might want to
come in, which is only going to make the thing
(20:17):
even more But I want to ask you about the
coincidence of Secretary nut resigning today. She was not available
to the best of my knowledge to anyone today, So
we want to talk about that as well. If that's
okay with you, My guest is John Chesto, Boston Globe
Business columnists must read in the Boston Globe. No doubt.
(20:38):
We'll be back on Nightside if you like to express
an opinion or ask a question of John chest No
one knows it better than John Chestow six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten
thirty Back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
This, It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
All right, let's get back with John Cesto. John. The
coincidence of the Transportation Secretary Monica Tibbet's Nutt resigning today
after a couple of pretty controversial years in her position
coincidence or do you think it has something to do
with with this This whole project is now heading after
(21:25):
a false start for several months.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
I can I find it hard to believe that it's
a coincidence that happening the day after MASSOT announced that
it was going to scrap the current tournament and start
fresh on the Service Plaza contract. Now, whether you know
how the governor, you know, sort of prodded her to
(21:50):
leave or whether she knew her time was up and
asked to leave and the governor said, wait until we've
got the decision and we've got this issue settled. I
can't say for sure. I do know the govern her
when asked today by the media, said it had nothing
to do with her departure. Uh, you know, the service
Plaza contract or the other controversies were not why she left.
(22:12):
But I mean it, you know, it's it was just
a day after this happened, and and notably she wasn't
he didn't even have a one of these lamee boiler
played quotes from her in the press release announcing it. So, uh,
it's pretty clear that the that her tenure had to end.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
You know, the governor's facing a very challenging re election year.
You know, she still polls well, but she has three
I would say, three strong Republican candidates vuying for that job.
And and believe me, there they the mascot was definitely
in their sights. Yeah, you know, it really was. It
(22:56):
was a political liability for now. You know, the biggest
is she you know, the biggest controversy I guess you
could say was when she spoke to a group called
walk Massachusetts and talked about, you know, putting tolls everywhere essentially,
and the quotes kind of emerged a little bit later,
(23:17):
and she was publicly chastised for it and sort of
sidelined on the task force that she was supposed to
be running because you know, the governor really didn't like
the message that was being sent there. Uh but you know,
she just you know, it's kind of hard to replace
your transportation secretary after your previous transportation secretary that was
(23:40):
Genie FIANDACA really wasn't there that long either, So I
don't think it's a coincidence. I know the administration will
publicly say it's a coincidence. But you know, during this
whole service service plaza controversy, I can't tell you how
many people who do speak to the governor regularly would
say she's I cannot believe how well, like when is
(24:02):
Monica leaving? You know, So it was one of these
things that you know, in fact, we even had a
story essentially saying that posing that question before the service
plaza controversy blew up. So one other thing you may remember,
you know, there are two major infrastructure projects that that
(24:25):
were under mass Dot's purview. One the realignment of the
turnpike in Austin, and the other take Cod bridges, and
the governor brought in Lusa Polonsky to basically run those
two because she wasn't satisfied with how they were being handled. Uh.
So you know, there, there's there's definitely been some challenges
(24:48):
under Monica's tenure during her time as Transportation Secretary. That's sure.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, you know, it's interesting. I have the same skepticism
did you have. The governor today said that Monica nut
was moving on to the private sector, but one Nutt
was not available today as far as I could tell,
I watched the evening newscast and then didn't see any
comment from her. Uh, Nor did I see anything from
the governor beyond she was moving to the private sector
(25:15):
that covers a vast variety of opportunities. Uh. And Nutt
is she was She's not from Massachusetts. I hate to
sound parochial or like a hometown person, but I think
it's tough to break in here in many respects it is.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
But I'm going to present you with a counterpoint. Sure,
look at look at Phil aang sill An came in
from New York and has done very well. He is,
you know, obviously he's at least, you know, temporarily taking
Monica's job as well as running the tea. And he's
well regarded by just about everyone. So but generally speaking,
(25:55):
you know, this place could eat you alive if you're
not careful.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah. And by the way, you know, if if if
you did not if you were not skeptical of the circumstances. Obviously,
it was a question that I asked. I think I
knew what you would say if you were not skeptical.
I was prepared to sell you a stretch of the
Massachusetts Turnpike tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I'll take the Charlton Plaza.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
No no, no, not the positive, just a stretch of
the road. That's all.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I want something that can make money on.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, no, no, we don't do maybe next time. Okay,
let's uh, okay, let let's see if we get some
phone calls six one seven, six seven, nine, three thirty.
Let me go first off to Bill in Boston. Bill,
thank you for your patience. You're on with John Chestel
or the Boston Globe.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Hey, hey there, Dan, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
In John, pleasure to speak with you. John'm just curious
you know, as someone who of course very closely follows
this situation very very closely, I'm curious that given a
secretary nuts sudden resignation, and Apple Green's unexpected withdrawal, and
and the fact that Global Partners a time local operator
that offered strong financials, does it seem to you now
(27:04):
that the Mascot process was flawed from the start, and
do you think the new Big process will actually fix
those issues or just put a new face on an
old problem.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Great question, It.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Is a great question, and that it is the fundamental
question that Jonathan Gulver, who is now under Secuary Transportation
and is also the highway administrator, who basically is on
his shoulders now he is the question, needs to answer.
I think there were flaws in the process. What I
would say is one of the biggest flaws was the
(27:39):
scorecard they used it. You know, they evaluated the two
finalists based on a scorecard for different categories, and I
found them the evaluation to be problematic because the revenue
category they actually ordered more points to Applegreen than Global
(28:02):
and then even though Global actually offered more revenue. So
when I pushed them on that, they said, well, we
don't really trust globals revenue figures. So it made me
it was putting sort of an objectivity on something that
really was subjective. I mean, it's let's just call space base.
If that's what it is, just say that's why we're
(28:22):
not picking them. But instead they have this whole grid
of how to rank them, and I was a little
skeptical of that grid. And so they're going to go
Jonathan Oliver told me he's going to go to all
of the bidders. There were six originally. It's not clear
to me how many dropped out or or just didn't
(28:44):
make the final round because their bid wasn't good enough.
I think several did drop out early. Well, he's going
to go back to them and the other four that
didn't make it to the final round and find out, like,
what can we do to improve it. I think it's
an honest effort on his part. I think we'll see
Global bid again. I don't know if we'll see Apple
Green Bit again. I know they're interested in bidding again,
(29:04):
but like I said, Blackstone has the final say on that.
Can it be improved? Yes, I have followed it all
the way from the start. I've been following it for
the past year. They have not let much information out,
and I did not get any sense that things were
awry really until you know, Global sort of fought back
(29:30):
with their own explanation for why they should have been
picked to run it, and you know, I think they
make some good points. I also understand this wasn't all
about the money. This was also about getting a big
investment that we could really, you know, have enough money
to have eighteen beautiful new buildings, either brand new or
(29:54):
signicalantly renovated. And Apple Green promised a much more expansive
rebuild and Global did so I see why that was
more attractive to the state. So it's not like we
can just say, okay, Global offered a much better bid.
Why it doesn't make sense why Apple Green was picked.
Global offered a lot more in revenue, but Apple Green
(30:17):
had more ambitious capital investment. Now the state has to decide, well,
what are the most important things? What are we trying
to get out of It should just be about revenue.
I don't think it'll be totally about revenue will be
a factor, but how much of a factor All of
that's going to be weighed as they go back and
interview all the bidding teams and find out what happened.
(30:39):
Why did you pull out early?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Bottom line too, gentlemen, is this is a huge contract.
This is a contract that is going to run into
the year two thy sixty. It's a thirty five year contract.
And the money that we were talking about was the
amount of money that would come back to the state.
You got to multiply that by a function of at
least twenty or twenty five as to what the value
(31:02):
of the contract would be to the winning didder. This
is a huge contract.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
And it also think about you know, Global Partners, was
you know, going to send one point five billion back
to the state over thirty five years. Yeah, multiply that,
like you said, by twenty because that's it's sort of
a percentage of of the revenue that they're getting. Yes,
it's a lot of money. Although I have to say
(31:27):
I've been surprised for by how both sides have really
dug in over the last few months over this. For
it's even though it's it's it is a ton of money.
Both of these companies and Stuffolk concluded, which is a
contractor for for Apple Green. They're large companies, so you
(31:48):
know this wasn't a make or break it deal for them.
They could have just left it, let it be, but
they slugged it out.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, but it's still you're right. They neither one of
them left it until the award was made. Hey, Bill,
thank you very much for your call. Appreciate your perspective
and questions.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
If anyone else would like to join, if you give
us a quick call, try to get you in. After
the break with John Chesto of the Boston Globe six
one seven four ten thirty six one seven nine three
one ten thirty jump on board, coming up in about
ten minutes of ten here on a Thursday night. Actually,
I think right now it's nine forty nine. We're a
little bit late for the break back. Right after this
(32:32):
with John Chesto, business reporter second to none as far
as I'm concerned in this city from the Boston Globe.
Back after this on Night Side.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Radio, joined by John Chesto of the Boston Globe. John,
just you know this better. You know this better than
than anyone that I know. Uh, it's now literally the
middle of October, October sixteenth. How long do you think
it will take this second process to play out between
(33:07):
you know, the solicitation of a bids, the bid process,
and the awarding of Are we talking about another year
or someone?
Speaker 4 (33:18):
I think, I think no, I've you surprised if they
can do this an under a year. You know, this
whole process started. I mean these bids just to give
you a sense of timing, the six bids that initially
came in around this time last year, and now they
have to redo the process. They can't just put it
(33:40):
out the same way they had it last year because
obviously they want to improve it. So they do have
a time in mind. Like I said last time, they
were focusing on January first of this year because so
many of the contracts we're going to expire and are
going to expire, they need to get least extensions now.
(34:00):
Now you know I mentioned the Global has four plausas
that it runs out right, the two in Bridgewater, one
in Barnsaball, and one in Beverly. Those expire in mid
twenty twenty seven, so they are trying to get it
done by then, and so they don't have to redo those,
you know, get a least extension there either. I think
(34:21):
that's a about right. You know even that you know
it's you you know there's a six month transition period
at least, which is you know, you've got to file
permits for renovations. You know, you're not going to start
renovating all the buildings on day one, but you're you're
going to want to get going right away. So it's
(34:41):
it's a tight timeframe to even meet that goal of
mid twenty twenty seven to turn over to a new user,
assuming Global doesn't win it in the next round, and
maybe they'll maybe that gives Global a little bit of
an edge. I don't know, we'll see, but it's it's
it can death point. It'd be shocked if they can
(35:02):
do this in under a year.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
The the other thing that to me is interesting is
that that's going to bring us well into if it's
a year, it's going to bring us right up to
the election of next November when Governor Healy is up
for reelection. So this this time all right.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
I did The timing was not lost on me there. Yeah,
I would not be surprised if this this decision is
made after that election. Uh, you know, it's it's now
become what seemed like a fairly straightforward public private partnership
has now become a political football, and I would not
(35:41):
be surprised if, you know, if there's a chance that
you know you're going to decide, you know, what to do,
who to pick in October, well, let's just's wait, maybe
we wait until December for that choice.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah. And also it's against the backdrop now of a
lengthening list of cabinets secretaries who have resigned, you know,
two in the Department of Transportation, the Veteran Services Secretary
John Santiago left in August. Health and Hermits Services Secretary
Kate Walsh departed earlier this year, Economic Development Secretary Yvonne
(36:17):
Howe in April of this year, public Safety Secretary Terrence Reid.
It's been a year of a great deal of turmoil
within the Heally administration's cabinet, and I'm sure that's going
to be an issue that any all, if some, if
not all, of her potential Republican opponents are going to
(36:39):
be talking about throughout the year, through the Republican primary,
and then next September and October right up until the election.
This has to be a disappointment for the governor for
this thing to have blown up in her face.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Oh, I'm sure it is.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I think that it seemed like it was going smoothly
until it wasn't. You know, could have been a very
They were ready to uh you know, probably brag of
these beautiful new service plausas that we're going to uh
come to come to fruition through this ingenious uh you know,
(37:17):
getting process. Uh and then it kind of all fell apart.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
So I will say about the turnover, Yes, there's been
a lot of turnover. Typically those first two years you
generally have the same cabinet, and then after two years,
you know, you're most of your talented cabinet secretaries can
usually make more in the private sector.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
And so we are seeing that sort of natural turnover.
I think to some extent there was question about whether
uh or heally was going to run again or go
to Washington. And I think that question was answered, yes
by the election cidential election. But I mean that I
think you know, people probably thought, well, we'll stay along
(38:06):
at least until then. Then see what happened.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
John Chester was always one of my best, my most
favorite guests. Thank you so much. This is a complicated story.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Yeah, this this one. It has been a complicated one,
and you know the the fun never seems stand with well.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I think we'll have a few more of these sessions
before it's founding. Thanks. John talks soon next piece of
the Globe, John Chester, the Washington Globe. Everyone, we get
back on to talk about some ugly comments made by
a group of young Republicans, complete knuckleheads, who I want
to call on the carpet. I hope you will as well,
coming back on Night's side right after the news at
(38:45):
ten o'clock here on WBZ Boston.
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