May 27, 2025 • 40 mins
Jill Robin Payne, a licensed psychotherapist and communication coach, discussed the power of effective communication. How we communicate has evolved over time and is still ever changing with modern technology! Whether it’s through email, text, verbal talk, or videochat, effective communication is vital to building and maintaining healthy relationships. We touched on what Jill calls “bempathy,” described as banter empathy and how verbal communication and banter fosters empathy and thus helps you connect and understand others more deeply.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's nice side with Dan Ray. I'm tell you Boston.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Radio, tough night, tough night for the Red Sox. Dan
out in Milwaukee. They led that game, won nothing for
several innings, and then it all went south. Tough. It's
a sort of symbolic of the season so far. But
it's still early, still early, there's still hope. It's not
(00:27):
even yet June. Now, after having two really interesting and
kind of wild hours on politics and on Donald Trump's
crusade against Harvard University, we all should take a deep breath.
(00:48):
And as I said to my friend Theodore in Baltimore,
there are several post two thousand and twenty twenty five
or analytics done of voters by age, by racial background,
et cetera. And Theodore, when you were telling me that
(01:12):
Harris won ninety five percent of the black vote, that's
just not so. She got eighty one percent of the
black vote. And that's again, if she got ninety five percent,
should be mad in president. So I just couldn't let
that one go again. Your opinions and your thoughts are
(01:34):
always welcome here. I hope you know that whether we
agree or disagree, but on factual issues, I try to
pull everybody along when I just think, you know, if
you had said she won eighty five percent of the vote,
I would have let that go because she got eighty
four percent. But to bump it up to ninety five percent, no,
(01:57):
that she would have been mad, as I say, Matt
in president. Anyway, Anyway, she won eighty one percent of
the vote. Excuse me, not eighty eighty five percent. Eighty
one percent of the vote. And in twenty twenty four,
check it out. Check it out theato next time you call,
I hope you will have checked it out and refreshed
(02:17):
your recollection on that. Now, I'd like to introduce a
guest who I interviewed. Uh, and we can kind of
relax everybody, Okay, that we can take we can take
the temperature down a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I had a very interesting guest. Her name is
Jill Robin Payne. She's a licensed psychotherapist and communication coach.
And we're in the communication business. We all are. We
all are, whether or not you're a talk show host
(02:52):
or you're a caller to a talk show, or whatever
sort of work you do, we're all in the communication business.
If we're bus drivers, if we're steel workers, we're baseball players,
if we're lawyers, doctors, whatever, communication is part of it.
And my guest, Jill Robin Pain, has come up with
(03:12):
the concept of empathy, empathy with a be in front
of it. Everybody knows what empathy means. You feel a
connection with other people, and you put a be in
front of it and it becomes as opposed to empathy,
it's empathy. Jill Robin Pain, welcome back to Night's Side.
(03:33):
And we talked in February. It's been too long. How
are you.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I'm good, Dan, How are you doing.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I just went through two sort of tong war hours.
We were talking about President Trump's war on Harvard and
whether or not that is the smartest thing for him
to be doing politically in the context of what else
is going on. And we had some strong opinions on
both sides of that issue. And we've put that issue
(03:59):
behind us because what we want to do is figure
out empathy. This is a concept that you've developed. I
can't say you've invented it, but you've developed it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Correct, right, I developed it right?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I want to use the right word. I don't
want to overstate it. I don't want to understate it tell.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Us what oh heck, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
No, no, no, no, no, no. Look, I just was
criticizing a caller who was citing ninety five percent versus
eighty one percent. That's a big difference. So the question
I have is explain to us how you came to
this concept. And I'm hoping that folks are going to
participate in this conversation and either agree or disagree with
(04:48):
with the value of the concept. So talk to us
how did this this concept come to be?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Well, one, just by what you were talking about, how
people put emotion with their words and their conversation, and
so they get very passionate over things, and so that
was one of the reasons I did come up with this. Also,
we're overloaded with that digital noise. It's fast talk, quick reactions,
(05:18):
and we're losing that genuine connection that we used to
have when we did a lot of face to face.
Even you know, right before COVID, we were still starting
to lose it because a lot of people were doing
more digital and less face to face. So I came
up with this. And empathy is a simple, powerful blend
(05:38):
of empathy and life harded banter, just like you said,
And what the banter does Dan is it breaks the
ice and it builds comfort and empathy grounds the conversation
and compassion and true connection. And when people start getting heated,
you know, in empathy there I have something called TP
(06:00):
and it's not toilet paper. It's timing and position. And
they've done studies DAN when people start getting upset and
they talk about things that they're angry about, they get
angrier and angry or angrier. So sometimes it's really good,
right when they're starting to get angry at a certain level,
that we stop it and redirect it some way if
(06:24):
you can, because when it gets where they're infuriated, it's
really too late to even do empathy. So you know,
I mean that's just how it is. So it's basically
being aware of things and it's talk less, connect more.
That's empathy, and it's a communication shortcut works with everybody.
And of course there's going to be exceptions to the rule,
(06:45):
and you have a win win mindset. So the way
you do empathy is are you ready?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yes? Start?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah, you start with empathy, So you don't start with
the banner. You start with empathy, and then you respond
with banter, and then you focus on a win, win.
So you want the person to have a win, win,
and the otherwards just to feel that they are winning.
They don't, they don't need to win. It's their perception.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, So I've got a couple of questions. I got
a couple of questions here. Okay, when I think of
the word you said, we start with empathy. When I
think of empathy, I think of and I know what
the definition is, but I feel that it's it's it's
a two, it's a combination of two things. It's feel
(07:32):
it's be able to feel sorry for a situation that
someone is in or circumstance that they find themselves dealing with.
But but it is also done in a way in
which you maintain the dignity of that other person. I mean,
let me use an example. If I see someone walking
(07:54):
down the street who's on a couple of crutches, uh,
and that they have they had knee surgery or they
had ankle surgery, Well, I think to myself, you know, gee,
that's a tough, tough situation. I don't know how they
hurt themselves. But you have to feel sorry as a
human being. And obviously, if you see someone you realize
(08:17):
that's a temporary circumstance, and that six months from now
they'll be out of the cast and they won't be
using the crutches, and they'll find there are other people
who you see who have even greater physical limitations. And
you you want to know you you want to feel empathy. Okay,
So I understand the concept of empathy. But when when
(08:40):
we're having a conversation with someone and you talk about bantering,
bantering is like, to me, very light hearted, light hearted,
light hearted conversation. So we're talking about the weather, We're
talking about the fact that what we hope to do
this weekend. I'm going to go play golf. You're going
(09:01):
to go to the beach. Oh, that's going to be wonderful.
Hope the weather is good for both of us. So hot.
So give me some circumstances where when we come back here,
I got to take a quick break for a couple
of commercials, But I want to hear a couple of
circumstances where maybe empathy is used to either diffuse a situation.
(09:23):
I mean, I have hot conversations here with people during
the night where we're arguing politics or arguing some issue,
or when a red Sox fans argue with a Yankee fans.
So I want to know what, how how my listeners
can improve their relationships with others through this concept that
(09:44):
you have developed called bempathy. Fair question.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I can't wait good enough after the break.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
After the break, we'll be back. My guest a licensed psychotherapist,
Jill Robin Paine, talking about empathy. And by the way,
this is not intended to be hot conversation. This is
an opportunity for you to ask a question, make a comment.
Tell me if you buy into the concept. If you
(10:11):
don't buy into the concept, tell me why. That's what
this is about. This is just kind of a little
slow down for us. Every once in a while we
have to sort of expand our horizons here, folks, so
stick with us. We'll be back on night Side. My
guest Jill Robin Pain. After this on nightside, you're on
(10:31):
night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
All right, my guest is Jill Robin Pain. My phone
lines are wide open six four ten thirty six one
seven nine ten thirty. Jill. The challenge, as I expressed
(10:52):
it before the break, give us an example of empathy
which can be utilized uh in day to day living,
or however you give us a good example.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Of Okay, I'm going to this just happened to me.
I'm glad you brought it up. It happened about three
or four days ago, and I had a difficult situation.
I was doing a good deed. A business friend of
mine called me up and I won't mention names, and said,
you know, hey, listen, I have a friend, a mutual
(11:24):
friend of ours, business friend, and she's having problems with
relationships and I'd really appreciate it if you could spend
the time with her and talk to her. And they
wanted me to be the therapist, so listen, I can't
be a therapist. I had them get my book meeting people.
It's not a game. I said, get my book, have
her listen to it, and then we'll go over that.
(11:46):
So they got the book. They didn't really do anything
with it. They hadn't read it yet. Anyway, So I
get there, it's a dinner and we're sitting down right away,
I'm going to just call her Alice. Okay, so Alice
was the one with the issue, and then uh, Joan,
I'm going to write it to own storey, I remember anyway,
(12:07):
and Joan was my my friend, business friend that called
me to have help Alice. So Alice is talking and
she's talking, Dan, I am telling you, she is just
getting angrier and angrier about how this person was treating
her and how it's you know, all all the people
from the opposite sex are just awful blah blah blah.
(12:30):
So I went and uh, I said, you know, gave
her some feedback. And when I was giving her feedback
that Dan, you could just look at her eyes. They
were giving me daggers if there were daggers coming out
of her eyes, and there to help her, and I'm
there to help her, So I did. I did my empathy,
(12:50):
and empathy is to feel with someone, not for someone,
like I'm not gonna feel for you, I'm gonna feel
with you. And so as she's gone rocketing, I put
my hand out and I literally said whoa. And I
smiled and shook my head. Because you want to feel
(13:11):
warm and appear warm and open. So your body movements
are really important. And if you're even on the phone,
people can honestly tell if you're smiling. And so I said,
I said, whoa. I said I'm here for you, Alice.
I've made time. I cleared out my schedule just so
I could be with you and empathize with you. I
(13:32):
use the word and empathize with you and help you out.
And she toned down a little bit, got a little
bit better, then went on talking again and started skyrocketing
where she was getting angry because they've already done studies
dan people that are angry about something. When you start
talking about anger or issues that get you angry, you
(13:53):
get angrier. So the best thing to do if the
best thing to do is either redirect or or start
talking about what you want, find a compromise. And that's
also in empathy. I have, you know, my three characters,
A leader, a follower, and a compromiser beacon bright and both.
So I was all of those people. And so then
(14:14):
I had her, Uh what else did I do? I
had her refocus? Now I always come with a I'm
a psychotherapist. I always come with a notebook. And I
believe that people, when you get them refocused, it doesn't
matter what age, especially young kids, if you give them
a pen and a paper or tell them even if
(14:34):
they're on the other end of the phone, grab a
because I do virtual grab a pen, have a paper,
do it into your phone. But have them focus on
something that they have control over, because when people get upset,
a lot of times they're out of control. So I
did that, she did the paper. It also gets them
(14:55):
to do something about empathy, which one of the big
things is empathy is a mind that you need to
step back so you can see the big picture. She
could look at what I had her do, which was
right down the characteristics of the person she's looking for, and.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Right away set the scene here a little bit for me.
You're at this okay, this is a dinner party, and
how many people other people are at the table.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Right, So the dynamics were my friend, I'm going to say,
was Joan, and then Alice and then me. So there
were three people. Okay, so we're sitting down.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Okay, so this is almost a counseling session with a
third person there. But the third person is the person
who brought the two of you together. So okay, this
is not a dinner table with twelve people sitting at
a dining room.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
No no, no, no, no no no, I wouldn't do that.
It is a conversation and I just went there to
talk to Banter with empathy. That was it, not do
any therapy. Okay, So then what we did was in
between all this we had fun change the subject. We
bantered on that, we kidded about stuff. I had a
(16:05):
three way. So when you have somebody else, and that
is also in empathy, when you have what I call
an accomplice, that's a third person that helps people see
another side of the coin. I had that person there,
so that also helped. And we bantered and talked a
little bit about relationships blah blah blah. Anyway, so the
whole time she's we're still focusing on that list and
(16:29):
getting her to feel in control, focusing on something for
her dan and it got her calm down and we
were fine. I had no more daggers. That's what we did,
so we did Banter. Empathy is a big part. That's
why I tell people please start with empathy. Empathy is
not about us, It's about the whole dynamics. Empathize with
(16:52):
even your environment. Like I was just talking to your
engineer and he was saying, it's raining there. Well, that's
going to also affects how people are. So you need
to look at the big picture and even see if
that person in a good mood, listen to the how did.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
This work out with this? So this woman is looking
to have a relationship with a man and it.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Hasn't Yeah, you got it right, it hasn't worked out.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And it would seem to me that if she's had
either either the entire male population is out of sink
or maybe the issue is more with her if I'm
not trying to be judgmental, but but it seems to
me that this was a tough situation to find yourself
(17:44):
in because it sounds to me like whatever options you're
giving her, she's just getting angry and rejecting those options
and being frustrated.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
So she was until I did what I did so so.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Bad, did what you did? And she starts to write
down a list.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I think she thanked me. She thanked me, right, But I.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Want to get to an intellelacatory point that you asked
her to write down a list of what the quality
she was looking in a potential partner was.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
That, yes, exactly?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Okay, So she was able to pull herself off the
ceiling because of you had this this empathy banter empathy
conversation pulled herself off the ceiling, and she was able
to focus and write down several characteristics of a partner
(18:41):
that that she was looking for.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Right, so I had I got her to have control.
People start flying off the handle if they're not feeling heard,
they don't feel accepted, or they're just out of control.
They're losing control in the conversation, and so they get
real emotional with whatever they're talking about. So if when
(19:04):
that happens, if you can, it's sort of like baseball,
you're just throwing the ball back in their court and
giving them a little bit of control, and then you
banter back and forth. Once you get things toned down
a bit, then you can move forward and talk more.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Okay, So now before I before I go to the
before I go to the newscast to which I have to,
I just want to put a ribbon on this example. Yeah,
how long ago did you have this conversation with this
this woman?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Three or four days ago?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay, so therefore you have no result, uh that that
you have seen. It's not like she went out the
next day and met mister right.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
That would be too quil Oh, that's that's not gonna
that's not going to happen. No, it would, it would.
It's going to be a process.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Okay, So is is her situation uh solvable? Resolvable? Meaning
do you think upon what you saw that sure she
will be able to go out and find someone who
she can be comfortable with and develop a relationship despite
all of her current frustrations and failures.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I think everyone can do that.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, great, Okay, yeah, you're going to I hope monitor
her through your friend at least and and I and
I hope you know. I mean, obviously you've invested time
with her, and I'm sure it'll be very satisfact, very satisfying.
If at some point three months or six months or
a year from now, you get a call that that
(20:33):
that she's met someone that she's really having a good
time with, I guess would be uh would.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Be the that's going to be up to her. A
lot of times we think that we're putting out what
we want, Dan, and we really need to look at
our scenery and what is in our world. Because whatever's
in our world, that's what we're putting out. So we
need to start looking on ourselves. I can tell you,
so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
No, no, I understand what you're saying is again sometimes,
particularly in this situation where she had been looking for
someone for a long time, and obviously that's hast all
of us, at some point in our lives find ourselves
in that situation. Very few people that I know meet
the love of their life when they're sophomores in high
(21:18):
school and only date that person and then fall in
love and get mad and live happily ever after. I mean,
that's the fairy tale story that does happen. But it's
the exception. It's the exception of the right. We'll take
a quick break here. My guest is Jill Robin Paine.
Now again, this is the sort of conversation that people
(21:41):
are reticent to participate in because they almost have to
give a little bit of themselves. So if you have
a question for Jill Robin pain or if you have
are still confused about the concept of empathy, and we
can drill down on that a little bit, or for sure,
I'm more interested in hearing from some of you six one, seven, two, five,
(22:06):
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten
thirty feel free to join the conversation. Who knows this
might help you in terms of your relationships at work,
your relationships socially, or your relationships with people who would
you would like to have a closer relationship. We'll take
(22:27):
a quick break. Here comes the news. Light up the phones,
folks again. I can do politics every night of the
week and we can fill the lines when I have
something different. It can be a little more challenging, Butick,
guess what, I have confidence in you, and I have
confidence in my audience, and feel free to join the conversation.
If you're not following the conversation, best way to do
(22:50):
it is to call and ask a question yourself. Six
Mon's seven two, five, four to ten thirty six months
seven nine, three one ten thirty. Will be back on
Night's Side right after the news at the bottom of
the hour.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It's Night Side, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
My guest is Jill Robin Pain. Jill, I think we
have intimidated my audience here. We're talking about the concept
of ben okay uh and it's it's funny. Rob was
just telling me that there are so many times the
audience will call us doing too much politics. You're doing
too much politics. Well, politics for me is the coin
of the realm because you open it up and you
(23:29):
get people on both sides. And by the way, sometimes
the conversations can be very heated and people are talking
at one another as opposed to with one another, and
sometimes we talk over each other, etc. Which can happen
just like politics, sports, and religion. I think of the
three areas. But the example you gave is a good one.
(23:51):
So that means everybody in my audience must be in
a really good relationship that no one out there could
benefit from learning from you.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
This is even if you're you have a boss that
you don't get along with. There's there's different things that
you can do. It's I mean, relationships are really important.
And when you're you know what I find I think
a lot of people like to argue. Oh yeah, a
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah. I love people who like to argue because they drama.
Well it is called drama, but it's also part of
what I do. My goal when I do the show
and want people to call, I try to find what
I call fifty to fifty topics because if I do
if As a talk show host, I learned a long
time ago that if I say, Okay, I love puppies,
(24:44):
they're the cutest little things that I just love to
hold puppies and play with puppies, and they're wonderful. But
I'll bet you some of you hate puppies. Oh if
you hate puppies, give me a call. Well, no one's
going to call on that. So so I like to
find fifty to fifty topics, and Donald Trump is one
of those topics. Fifty percent the people love him, fifty
percent of the people kind of buy them. And even
(25:05):
even it's very difficult to get someone on one side
or the other to say, you know what, I like
what he's doing, but I think he's making a mistake,
or someone saying, well, I don't like him at all,
but on this area, I think he's going in the
right direction. So a part of me, I'm not a
professional sociologist, but as a talk show host, she got
(25:27):
to have a little bit of a concept of sociology
within you. And I hope that some of my listeners will.
Let's talk about when you have I know people who
have difficult bosses and the bosses. Here's what I say
about bosses, and I've never I've never been a boss.
I've been in positions where I was in theory the boss,
(25:53):
but I've never been in management, but I've been in
situations where I work with people and I want to
encourage people on my show and Rob, I don't consider
my Rob is my producer at night. I don't consider
myself Rob's boss because I'm not. I don't hire, I
don't fire. But if I'm working on a subject, I
(26:17):
will ask Rob, hey, what do you think we might
do here? I'm not going to necessarily accept the because
I'm the one that's got to implement the idea. If
Rob says to me, well, let's talk about you know,
the difference between you know, blue canaries and yellow canaries,
I'm going to say, Rob, what do you been drinking hair?
Let's let's let's get down a business. But when you
(26:37):
do have a manager, and whether or not it's a
manager in baseball or a manager at your job, I
think most bosses vastly underrate the benefit of complimenting an employer.
They I think too many bosses that I've known think, well,
(27:00):
the most important thing is how much you get paid. No,
it's not. I think the most important thing that a
boss can do is show appreciation. Obviously, try to help
the employee become better and all of that, but I
think that a pat on the back goes a long
way to making an employer an employee wants to work harder.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right or wrong, you're exactly right.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
And I have Beacon Brighton and Beau or my characters,
so a leader, a follower, and a compromiser, and my leader,
which is Beacon. He is dressed up just like a lighthouse.
Because what is a boss. A boss is a leader.
They help guide you. They don't push you, they don't
shove you. They model the behavior that you want them
to do, and they enlighten you. And that's that's what
(27:48):
empathy also is about. It shows how a boss needs
to be more like a leader, and that that way
people would want to follow him. If you push some
one's it's Newton's law. If I force you, like Dan,
if you forced me to come on your show, which
you didn't you asked me, I asked you. Yeah. Anyway,
(28:13):
if you force someone, you either get resistance or you
push them away. It's Newton's law. So when you are
a boss, it's better to be just like a lighthouse
and think like a lighthouse. What do they do? They
help guide people, They enlighten them, and then people want
to follow them, and so then you have a happy campers,
(28:34):
and of course you're going to get some personalities that
are going to conflict. It's very rare, though, if you
really listen to people, and everybody has a different language.
So this is what I tell people. You look at
the dynamics. It's like Reagan when he was doing the
agreement with Gorbachev getting the wall to go down. The
(28:56):
first lady made sure that there was a fireplace, and
there were cushiony chairs, and they didn't face each other,
and the lights were dim. All these things affect how
people react to you. So these are things that we
all need to think about when we're going to see
our boss. Is he in a good mood. You might
want to give him some coffee. When someone has something
(29:18):
warm in their hands, they warm up to you. So
these are just things to think about when you are talking.
You need to think of a big picture.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Well, it's funny, I mean you mentioned Ragan. I think
Reagan was the best president of the second half of
the twentieth century. I think Roosevelt was the best president
of the first half of the twentieth century. And often
great presidents are rated upon what they accomplish and well,
obviously Roosevelt led the nation out of a depression and
(29:49):
led the nation through World War Two. Reagan was able
to overcome the scourge of communism not only here but
also abroad. And he was able to fight and a
Soviet leader in Gorbachev, with whom he could create a
relationship with and and and brought freedom to for a
long time to Eastern Europe, which is still free. Uh
(30:13):
and and and some freedom to the Russian people. But
it's funny we we well, we think about, for example,
World War two, we think about George Patten as the
great leader and and Patten had a lot of flaws.
(30:33):
He was he was a great general and a great strategist,
but he had some issues personally, it seemed to me.
And yet I think very gruff and and he enjoyed
being that way. Okay. Eisenhower, on the other hand, who
was the NATO commander uh and was really in charge
(30:57):
of everything, including D Day. He took a situation and
again I think that that I think Eisenhower was a
was a better leader, and he was rewarded with that
by becoming President of the United States. Uh. We have
these you have these, these these people that are held
(31:19):
up vice Lombadi is a great football coach and all
of that or you know, but sometimes the best football
coach can be someone like Belichick, who was pretty quiet.
I mean, you know, he was not a screamer or
a yeller. He had a lot of he had a
lot of flaws. I don't know if if you follow him,
(31:41):
but he was miserable when the team lost, and he
showed it and uh and it used to be really
interesting to watch him with his postgame news conferences and
the media guys would say to Belichick, well, what happened, coach?
You lost today? Why did you lose? Which was a
stupid question but or something like that, and Belichick would say,
(32:02):
the other team scored more points. What's your next question?
Almost like the answer. You know, he didn't have to say,
you're an idiot for asking that question. That what? But
it was the way it was, the way it was
the way it works. So the relationships and let's we
have to talk about relationships between partners in life, spouses,
(32:25):
and I want to talk about that when we come back,
because sometimes even in good marriages, you get to the
point where you are just at loggerheads with the other person.
And how do you know, how do you work that
relationship which is the most, the closest and the most
(32:45):
intimate relationship with the concept of empathy. And again, my
audience is failing me totally here. I'm embarrassed, but that's okay.
I get asked questions all night long. That's what I
do for a living. And I'm not even gonna give
the phone number because you I'm going to enjoy our
conversation with the balance of the of the program. Uh.
(33:08):
And I'll put the audience on notice that I am
not doing what we normally we do a postgame analysis
of the show that will not happen. Tonight. We'll be
back on Nightside with my guest who is a licensed
psycho therapist and has introduced us to what I think
is an important concept, the idea of empathy, which is
(33:28):
a combination of the word banter and empathy. So you
you diffuse the situation by having maybe you get away
from the area that is not working well for you.
I think I'm buying into this, and we'll continue our conversation.
(33:50):
My guest, Jill Robin Pain back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
It's Night Side, Boston's News radio.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
My guest we're talking about Bempathy is Jill Robin Pain.
And if you've been listening, I think you say what
empathy is, Joe. We do have a couple of callers
who I want to get to. But let's talk. How
do you how do you break through when you're in
this a disagreement with your spouse over something. I don't
(34:21):
know which side, whether whether the salt or the Peppa
shaker is on the right of the left or whatever.
What do you do on one of those things that
just bugs the other person that that you do. I
do a lot of things that bug my wife.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But how do you give me?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Can you give me an example? Because oh I.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Can give you the classic example is the toilet paper.
Does the toilet paper go over or under the roll?
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Right?
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Okay, Well, you know you're gonna say pick your battles.
One thing, it's how people talk. So if people are
gonna talk, you're gonna need to put some humor in
it and focus on what the real thing.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Is bothering you.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
What's what's bothering you about that? So again, you need
to empathize with your partner. Really you need to empathize.
Let me tell you. The best way to talk to
your partner is in bed. And I don't mean after
sex or before sex. I just mean lying down in
bed chit chatting because it's yeah, it's you're in a
(35:24):
reclined position. You're both it's a it's a nice comfortable feel.
You can be hugging, hugging each other. It's very hard
to get mad when you're discussing in that position.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
All right, let me do this. I have I have
the phone lines have exploded. Why they've exploded this Lake
Bud only knows. But let's go to the mall. Peter
and Everette. Peter, you are next on night Side. I
appreciate you calling in. Peter on with Jill, Robin Pink.
Go right ahead, Hi, Peter. Well, if Peter isn't there,
(35:58):
we'll put Peter on hold. Okay, we'll come back to Peter.
Let me go to Frank in Montreal. Frank, how are you, sir? Hi?
Speaker 6 (36:06):
Frank good Dan? How are you good? Good? Good? And
I'm trying to see if I could understand this correctly.
But would your theory or not theory but study apply
to a person? Disorder went out went out?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
You broke up on us? There for a second, Frank,
what type of disorder.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
A personality disorder, and more specifically a narcissist would empathy
and banter kind of go together? And my experience has
been at least of the narcissist, you constantly have to
appease their their ego. But then you know, you try
(36:59):
to I guess get your point across, but very very gently.
So is that sort of banter and empathy? And or
is that? Am I away?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Craig. I think that's a great question. And if you
can be as direct as you can on this one, Jill,
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Okay, So Frank, first of all, there's very few people
that are narcissistic. And second, you need to think about
you and what you want to accomplish in your conversation
with your person. And one let's not even call the
person a narcissist. Let's call them someone that has a
personality issue that's going to make it better. And then
(37:40):
you need to think about what do you want to accomplish,
do you want to win? What do you want from
this situation? More there too.
Speaker 6 (37:51):
Yeah, I'm sorry if this is a bad connection. I
guess I'm trying to see or have them realize sometimes
that they are that they need to change their their.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Approach to got it.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
I got it. So you're gonna need to instead of
talk about you or them, talk about something that takes
you away. So when we talk about third person, like
if you're talking to yourself and you say Frank likes
blah blah blah, it sort of pulls you away from
the situation. So when you're talking to this other person
(38:29):
let's call her Jane, let's say talk to her and say, gosh,
when people do things like this, this is what happens.
And I've heard that when people do this, they can
have this. Does that make sense? Take it away from
the two of you, because otherwise that person is going
(38:49):
to get defensive. Did I help you out?
Speaker 6 (38:52):
Yep? Very good, Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Appreciate the call very much. My friend will talk.
Speaker 6 (38:56):
Sooner, okay, Frank, okay, good, thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Let me get quick, Jim and Kingston. Jim, go right ahead.
We only have about a minute if if that for you,
go ahead.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Jim, Okay. Actually, just curious, is this an audio book
that we can listen to or is this an actual
print book? Uh So, I'm not sure how to get okay.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
So three of them are are written and then one
is written in audio, and it's My Meeting People. It's
not a game, and that's the one that has a
lot of things on what you're all talking about with relationships.
Meeting people. It's not a game. So if you get
my book, you can you can ask me questions in
an email, O call.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Me, give us the book again, Meeting people is not
a game.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
Uh huh. Meeting people, it's not a game, and it
is on audio and it says your path to genuine
connections through empathy.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
All right, perfect, Jim, that's a great question. I was
going to have to ask that question as well to
the call is called Lake Christine and John. I'm very sorry,
but we're flat out of time. Jill. If folks want
to contact you, get the book and they can get in.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Contact with you, please please go to my website Joe
Robinpain dot com. My email's there, everything's there, and I'm
also on all the platforms and you just say that
you okay.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Okay, I gotta go, Thanks Jill, thank you so much,
thank you very much for your time. Tonight, I'll end
us all we there's no there's no postgame tonight, but
I only have about ten seconds today. All dogs, all cats,
all pets go to heaven. That's my pale Charlie Ray
is the passed fifteen years ago in February. That's one
of your pets are past. They love you, You love them.
You'll see them again. I will see you later this
(40:45):
week on night Side. Have a great Wednesday and Thursday everyone,
It's nice side with Dan Ray. I'm tell you Boston.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Radio, tough night, tough night for the Red Sox. Dan
out in Milwaukee. They led that game, won nothing for
several innings, and then it all went south. Tough. It's
a sort of symbolic of the season so far. But
it's still early, still early, there's still hope. It's not
(00:27):
even yet June. Now, after having two really interesting and
kind of wild hours on politics and on Donald Trump's
crusade against Harvard University, we all should take a deep breath.
(00:48):
And as I said to my friend Theodore in Baltimore,
there are several post two thousand and twenty twenty five
or analytics done of voters by age, by racial background,
et cetera. And Theodore, when you were telling me that
(01:12):
Harris won ninety five percent of the black vote, that's
just not so. She got eighty one percent of the
black vote. And that's again, if she got ninety five percent,
should be mad in president. So I just couldn't let
that one go again. Your opinions and your thoughts are
(01:34):
always welcome here. I hope you know that whether we
agree or disagree, but on factual issues, I try to
pull everybody along when I just think, you know, if
you had said she won eighty five percent of the vote,
I would have let that go because she got eighty
four percent. But to bump it up to ninety five percent, no,
(01:57):
that she would have been mad, as I say, Matt
in president. Anyway, Anyway, she won eighty one percent of
the vote. Excuse me, not eighty eighty five percent. Eighty
one percent of the vote. And in twenty twenty four,
check it out. Check it out theato next time you call,
I hope you will have checked it out and refreshed
(02:17):
your recollection on that. Now, I'd like to introduce a
guest who I interviewed. Uh, and we can kind of
relax everybody, Okay, that we can take we can take
the temperature down a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I had a very interesting guest. Her name is
Jill Robin Payne. She's a licensed psychotherapist and communication coach.
And we're in the communication business. We all are. We
all are, whether or not you're a talk show host
(02:52):
or you're a caller to a talk show, or whatever
sort of work you do, we're all in the communication business.
If we're bus drivers, if we're steel workers, we're baseball players,
if we're lawyers, doctors, whatever, communication is part of it.
And my guest, Jill Robin Pain, has come up with
(03:12):
the concept of empathy, empathy with a be in front
of it. Everybody knows what empathy means. You feel a
connection with other people, and you put a be in
front of it and it becomes as opposed to empathy,
it's empathy. Jill Robin Pain, welcome back to Night's Side.
(03:33):
And we talked in February. It's been too long. How
are you.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I'm good, Dan, How are you doing.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I just went through two sort of tong war hours.
We were talking about President Trump's war on Harvard and
whether or not that is the smartest thing for him
to be doing politically in the context of what else
is going on. And we had some strong opinions on
both sides of that issue. And we've put that issue
(03:59):
behind us because what we want to do is figure
out empathy. This is a concept that you've developed. I
can't say you've invented it, but you've developed it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Correct, right, I developed it right?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I want to use the right word. I don't
want to overstate it. I don't want to understate it tell.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Us what oh heck, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
No, no, no, no, no, no. Look, I just was
criticizing a caller who was citing ninety five percent versus
eighty one percent. That's a big difference. So the question
I have is explain to us how you came to
this concept. And I'm hoping that folks are going to
participate in this conversation and either agree or disagree with
(04:48):
with the value of the concept. So talk to us
how did this this concept come to be?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Well, one, just by what you were talking about, how
people put emotion with their words and their conversation, and
so they get very passionate over things, and so that
was one of the reasons I did come up with this. Also,
we're overloaded with that digital noise. It's fast talk, quick reactions,
(05:18):
and we're losing that genuine connection that we used to
have when we did a lot of face to face.
Even you know, right before COVID, we were still starting
to lose it because a lot of people were doing
more digital and less face to face. So I came
up with this. And empathy is a simple, powerful blend
(05:38):
of empathy and life harded banter, just like you said,
And what the banter does Dan is it breaks the
ice and it builds comfort and empathy grounds the conversation
and compassion and true connection. And when people start getting heated,
you know, in empathy there I have something called TP
(06:00):
and it's not toilet paper. It's timing and position. And
they've done studies DAN when people start getting upset and
they talk about things that they're angry about, they get
angrier and angry or angrier. So sometimes it's really good,
right when they're starting to get angry at a certain level,
that we stop it and redirect it some way if
(06:24):
you can, because when it gets where they're infuriated, it's
really too late to even do empathy. So you know,
I mean that's just how it is. So it's basically
being aware of things and it's talk less, connect more.
That's empathy, and it's a communication shortcut works with everybody.
And of course there's going to be exceptions to the rule,
(06:45):
and you have a win win mindset. So the way
you do empathy is are you ready?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yes? Start?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah, you start with empathy, So you don't start with
the banner. You start with empathy, and then you respond
with banter, and then you focus on a win, win.
So you want the person to have a win, win,
and the otherwards just to feel that they are winning.
They don't, they don't need to win. It's their perception.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, So I've got a couple of questions. I got
a couple of questions here. Okay, when I think of
the word you said, we start with empathy. When I
think of empathy, I think of and I know what
the definition is, but I feel that it's it's it's
a two, it's a combination of two things. It's feel
(07:32):
it's be able to feel sorry for a situation that
someone is in or circumstance that they find themselves dealing with.
But but it is also done in a way in
which you maintain the dignity of that other person. I mean,
let me use an example. If I see someone walking
(07:54):
down the street who's on a couple of crutches, uh,
and that they have they had knee surgery or they
had ankle surgery, Well, I think to myself, you know, gee,
that's a tough, tough situation. I don't know how they
hurt themselves. But you have to feel sorry as a
human being. And obviously, if you see someone you realize
(08:17):
that's a temporary circumstance, and that six months from now
they'll be out of the cast and they won't be
using the crutches, and they'll find there are other people
who you see who have even greater physical limitations. And
you you want to know you you want to feel empathy. Okay,
So I understand the concept of empathy. But when when
(08:40):
we're having a conversation with someone and you talk about bantering,
bantering is like, to me, very light hearted, light hearted,
light hearted conversation. So we're talking about the weather, We're
talking about the fact that what we hope to do
this weekend. I'm going to go play golf. You're going
(09:01):
to go to the beach. Oh, that's going to be wonderful.
Hope the weather is good for both of us. So hot.
So give me some circumstances where when we come back here,
I got to take a quick break for a couple
of commercials, But I want to hear a couple of
circumstances where maybe empathy is used to either diffuse a situation.
(09:23):
I mean, I have hot conversations here with people during
the night where we're arguing politics or arguing some issue,
or when a red Sox fans argue with a Yankee fans.
So I want to know what, how how my listeners
can improve their relationships with others through this concept that
(09:44):
you have developed called bempathy. Fair question.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I can't wait good enough after the break.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
After the break, we'll be back. My guest a licensed psychotherapist,
Jill Robin Paine, talking about empathy. And by the way,
this is not intended to be hot conversation. This is
an opportunity for you to ask a question, make a comment.
Tell me if you buy into the concept. If you
(10:11):
don't buy into the concept, tell me why. That's what
this is about. This is just kind of a little
slow down for us. Every once in a while we
have to sort of expand our horizons here, folks, so
stick with us. We'll be back on night Side. My
guest Jill Robin Pain. After this on nightside, you're on
(10:31):
night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
All right, my guest is Jill Robin Pain. My phone
lines are wide open six four ten thirty six one
seven nine ten thirty. Jill. The challenge, as I expressed
(10:52):
it before the break, give us an example of empathy
which can be utilized uh in day to day living,
or however you give us a good example.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Of Okay, I'm going to this just happened to me.
I'm glad you brought it up. It happened about three
or four days ago, and I had a difficult situation.
I was doing a good deed. A business friend of
mine called me up and I won't mention names, and said,
you know, hey, listen, I have a friend, a mutual
(11:24):
friend of ours, business friend, and she's having problems with
relationships and I'd really appreciate it if you could spend
the time with her and talk to her. And they
wanted me to be the therapist, so listen, I can't
be a therapist. I had them get my book meeting people.
It's not a game. I said, get my book, have
her listen to it, and then we'll go over that.
(11:46):
So they got the book. They didn't really do anything
with it. They hadn't read it yet. Anyway, So I
get there, it's a dinner and we're sitting down right away,
I'm going to just call her Alice. Okay, so Alice
was the one with the issue, and then uh, Joan,
I'm going to write it to own storey, I remember anyway,
(12:07):
and Joan was my my friend, business friend that called
me to have help Alice. So Alice is talking and
she's talking, Dan, I am telling you, she is just
getting angrier and angrier about how this person was treating
her and how it's you know, all all the people
from the opposite sex are just awful blah blah blah.
(12:30):
So I went and uh, I said, you know, gave
her some feedback. And when I was giving her feedback
that Dan, you could just look at her eyes. They
were giving me daggers if there were daggers coming out
of her eyes, and there to help her, and I'm
there to help her, So I did. I did my empathy,
(12:50):
and empathy is to feel with someone, not for someone,
like I'm not gonna feel for you, I'm gonna feel
with you. And so as she's gone rocketing, I put
my hand out and I literally said whoa. And I
smiled and shook my head. Because you want to feel
(13:11):
warm and appear warm and open. So your body movements
are really important. And if you're even on the phone,
people can honestly tell if you're smiling. And so I said,
I said, whoa. I said I'm here for you, Alice.
I've made time. I cleared out my schedule just so
I could be with you and empathize with you. I
(13:32):
use the word and empathize with you and help you out.
And she toned down a little bit, got a little
bit better, then went on talking again and started skyrocketing
where she was getting angry because they've already done studies
dan people that are angry about something. When you start
talking about anger or issues that get you angry, you
(13:53):
get angrier. So the best thing to do if the
best thing to do is either redirect or or start
talking about what you want, find a compromise. And that's
also in empathy. I have, you know, my three characters,
A leader, a follower, and a compromiser beacon bright and both.
So I was all of those people. And so then
(14:14):
I had her, Uh what else did I do? I
had her refocus? Now I always come with a I'm
a psychotherapist. I always come with a notebook. And I
believe that people, when you get them refocused, it doesn't
matter what age, especially young kids, if you give them
a pen and a paper or tell them even if
(14:34):
they're on the other end of the phone, grab a
because I do virtual grab a pen, have a paper,
do it into your phone. But have them focus on
something that they have control over, because when people get upset,
a lot of times they're out of control. So I
did that, she did the paper. It also gets them
(14:55):
to do something about empathy, which one of the big
things is empathy is a mind that you need to
step back so you can see the big picture. She
could look at what I had her do, which was
right down the characteristics of the person she's looking for, and.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Right away set the scene here a little bit for me.
You're at this okay, this is a dinner party, and
how many people other people are at the table.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Right, So the dynamics were my friend, I'm going to say,
was Joan, and then Alice and then me. So there
were three people. Okay, so we're sitting down.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Okay, so this is almost a counseling session with a
third person there. But the third person is the person
who brought the two of you together. So okay, this
is not a dinner table with twelve people sitting at
a dining room.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
No no, no, no, no no no, I wouldn't do that.
It is a conversation and I just went there to
talk to Banter with empathy. That was it, not do
any therapy. Okay, So then what we did was in
between all this we had fun change the subject. We
bantered on that, we kidded about stuff. I had a
(16:05):
three way. So when you have somebody else, and that
is also in empathy, when you have what I call
an accomplice, that's a third person that helps people see
another side of the coin. I had that person there,
so that also helped. And we bantered and talked a
little bit about relationships blah blah blah. Anyway, so the
whole time she's we're still focusing on that list and
(16:29):
getting her to feel in control, focusing on something for
her dan and it got her calm down and we
were fine. I had no more daggers. That's what we did,
so we did Banter. Empathy is a big part. That's
why I tell people please start with empathy. Empathy is
not about us, It's about the whole dynamics. Empathize with
(16:52):
even your environment. Like I was just talking to your
engineer and he was saying, it's raining there. Well, that's
going to also affects how people are. So you need
to look at the big picture and even see if
that person in a good mood, listen to the how did.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
This work out with this? So this woman is looking
to have a relationship with a man and it.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Hasn't Yeah, you got it right, it hasn't worked out.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And it would seem to me that if she's had
either either the entire male population is out of sink
or maybe the issue is more with her if I'm
not trying to be judgmental, but but it seems to
me that this was a tough situation to find yourself
(17:44):
in because it sounds to me like whatever options you're
giving her, she's just getting angry and rejecting those options
and being frustrated.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
So she was until I did what I did so so.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Bad, did what you did? And she starts to write
down a list.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I think she thanked me. She thanked me, right, But I.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Want to get to an intellelacatory point that you asked
her to write down a list of what the quality
she was looking in a potential partner was.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
That, yes, exactly?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Okay, So she was able to pull herself off the
ceiling because of you had this this empathy banter empathy
conversation pulled herself off the ceiling, and she was able
to focus and write down several characteristics of a partner
(18:41):
that that she was looking for.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Right, so I had I got her to have control.
People start flying off the handle if they're not feeling heard,
they don't feel accepted, or they're just out of control.
They're losing control in the conversation, and so they get
real emotional with whatever they're talking about. So if when
(19:04):
that happens, if you can, it's sort of like baseball,
you're just throwing the ball back in their court and
giving them a little bit of control, and then you
banter back and forth. Once you get things toned down
a bit, then you can move forward and talk more.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Okay, So now before I before I go to the
before I go to the newscast to which I have to,
I just want to put a ribbon on this example. Yeah,
how long ago did you have this conversation with this
this woman?
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Three or four days ago?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay, so therefore you have no result, uh that that
you have seen. It's not like she went out the
next day and met mister right.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
That would be too quil Oh, that's that's not gonna
that's not going to happen. No, it would, it would.
It's going to be a process.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Okay, So is is her situation uh solvable? Resolvable? Meaning
do you think upon what you saw that sure she
will be able to go out and find someone who
she can be comfortable with and develop a relationship despite
all of her current frustrations and failures.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I think everyone can do that.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, great, Okay, yeah, you're going to I hope monitor
her through your friend at least and and I and
I hope you know. I mean, obviously you've invested time
with her, and I'm sure it'll be very satisfact, very satisfying.
If at some point three months or six months or
a year from now, you get a call that that
(20:33):
that she's met someone that she's really having a good
time with, I guess would be uh would.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Be the that's going to be up to her. A
lot of times we think that we're putting out what
we want, Dan, and we really need to look at
our scenery and what is in our world. Because whatever's
in our world, that's what we're putting out. So we
need to start looking on ourselves. I can tell you,
so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
No, no, I understand what you're saying is again sometimes,
particularly in this situation where she had been looking for
someone for a long time, and obviously that's hast all
of us, at some point in our lives find ourselves
in that situation. Very few people that I know meet
the love of their life when they're sophomores in high
(21:18):
school and only date that person and then fall in
love and get mad and live happily ever after. I mean,
that's the fairy tale story that does happen. But it's
the exception. It's the exception of the right. We'll take
a quick break here. My guest is Jill Robin Paine.
Now again, this is the sort of conversation that people
(21:41):
are reticent to participate in because they almost have to
give a little bit of themselves. So if you have
a question for Jill Robin pain or if you have
are still confused about the concept of empathy, and we
can drill down on that a little bit, or for sure,
I'm more interested in hearing from some of you six one, seven, two, five,
(22:06):
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten
thirty feel free to join the conversation. Who knows this
might help you in terms of your relationships at work,
your relationships socially, or your relationships with people who would
you would like to have a closer relationship. We'll take
(22:27):
a quick break. Here comes the news. Light up the phones,
folks again. I can do politics every night of the
week and we can fill the lines when I have
something different. It can be a little more challenging, Butick,
guess what, I have confidence in you, and I have
confidence in my audience, and feel free to join the conversation.
If you're not following the conversation, best way to do
(22:50):
it is to call and ask a question yourself. Six
Mon's seven two, five, four to ten thirty six months
seven nine, three one ten thirty. Will be back on
Night's Side right after the news at the bottom of
the hour.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
It's Night Side, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
My guest is Jill Robin Pain. Jill, I think we
have intimidated my audience here. We're talking about the concept
of ben okay uh and it's it's funny. Rob was
just telling me that there are so many times the
audience will call us doing too much politics. You're doing
too much politics. Well, politics for me is the coin
of the realm because you open it up and you
(23:29):
get people on both sides. And by the way, sometimes
the conversations can be very heated and people are talking
at one another as opposed to with one another, and
sometimes we talk over each other, etc. Which can happen
just like politics, sports, and religion. I think of the
three areas. But the example you gave is a good one.
(23:51):
So that means everybody in my audience must be in
a really good relationship that no one out there could
benefit from learning from you.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
This is even if you're you have a boss that
you don't get along with. There's there's different things that
you can do. It's I mean, relationships are really important.
And when you're you know what I find I think
a lot of people like to argue. Oh yeah, a
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah. I love people who like to argue because they drama.
Well it is called drama, but it's also part of
what I do. My goal when I do the show
and want people to call, I try to find what
I call fifty to fifty topics because if I do
if As a talk show host, I learned a long
time ago that if I say, Okay, I love puppies,
(24:44):
they're the cutest little things that I just love to
hold puppies and play with puppies, and they're wonderful. But
I'll bet you some of you hate puppies. Oh if
you hate puppies, give me a call. Well, no one's
going to call on that. So so I like to
find fifty to fifty topics, and Donald Trump is one
of those topics. Fifty percent the people love him, fifty
percent of the people kind of buy them. And even
(25:05):
even it's very difficult to get someone on one side
or the other to say, you know what, I like
what he's doing, but I think he's making a mistake,
or someone saying, well, I don't like him at all,
but on this area, I think he's going in the
right direction. So a part of me, I'm not a
professional sociologist, but as a talk show host, she got
(25:27):
to have a little bit of a concept of sociology
within you. And I hope that some of my listeners will.
Let's talk about when you have I know people who
have difficult bosses and the bosses. Here's what I say
about bosses, and I've never I've never been a boss.
I've been in positions where I was in theory the boss,
(25:53):
but I've never been in management, but I've been in
situations where I work with people and I want to
encourage people on my show and Rob, I don't consider
my Rob is my producer at night. I don't consider
myself Rob's boss because I'm not. I don't hire, I
don't fire. But if I'm working on a subject, I
(26:17):
will ask Rob, hey, what do you think we might
do here? I'm not going to necessarily accept the because
I'm the one that's got to implement the idea. If
Rob says to me, well, let's talk about you know,
the difference between you know, blue canaries and yellow canaries,
I'm going to say, Rob, what do you been drinking hair?
Let's let's let's get down a business. But when you
(26:37):
do have a manager, and whether or not it's a
manager in baseball or a manager at your job, I
think most bosses vastly underrate the benefit of complimenting an employer.
They I think too many bosses that I've known think, well,
(27:00):
the most important thing is how much you get paid. No,
it's not. I think the most important thing that a
boss can do is show appreciation. Obviously, try to help
the employee become better and all of that, but I
think that a pat on the back goes a long
way to making an employer an employee wants to work harder.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right or wrong, you're exactly right.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
And I have Beacon Brighton and Beau or my characters,
so a leader, a follower, and a compromiser, and my leader,
which is Beacon. He is dressed up just like a lighthouse.
Because what is a boss. A boss is a leader.
They help guide you. They don't push you, they don't
shove you. They model the behavior that you want them
to do, and they enlighten you. And that's that's what
(27:48):
empathy also is about. It shows how a boss needs
to be more like a leader, and that that way
people would want to follow him. If you push some
one's it's Newton's law. If I force you, like Dan,
if you forced me to come on your show, which
you didn't you asked me, I asked you. Yeah. Anyway,
(28:13):
if you force someone, you either get resistance or you
push them away. It's Newton's law. So when you are
a boss, it's better to be just like a lighthouse
and think like a lighthouse. What do they do? They
help guide people, They enlighten them, and then people want
to follow them, and so then you have a happy campers,
(28:34):
and of course you're going to get some personalities that
are going to conflict. It's very rare, though, if you
really listen to people, and everybody has a different language.
So this is what I tell people. You look at
the dynamics. It's like Reagan when he was doing the
agreement with Gorbachev getting the wall to go down. The
(28:56):
first lady made sure that there was a fireplace, and
there were cushiony chairs, and they didn't face each other,
and the lights were dim. All these things affect how
people react to you. So these are things that we
all need to think about when we're going to see
our boss. Is he in a good mood. You might
want to give him some coffee. When someone has something
(29:18):
warm in their hands, they warm up to you. So
these are just things to think about when you are talking.
You need to think of a big picture.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Well, it's funny, I mean you mentioned Ragan. I think
Reagan was the best president of the second half of
the twentieth century. I think Roosevelt was the best president
of the first half of the twentieth century. And often
great presidents are rated upon what they accomplish and well,
obviously Roosevelt led the nation out of a depression and
(29:49):
led the nation through World War Two. Reagan was able
to overcome the scourge of communism not only here but
also abroad. And he was able to fight and a
Soviet leader in Gorbachev, with whom he could create a
relationship with and and and brought freedom to for a
long time to Eastern Europe, which is still free. Uh
(30:13):
and and and some freedom to the Russian people. But
it's funny we we well, we think about, for example,
World War two, we think about George Patten as the
great leader and and Patten had a lot of flaws.
(30:33):
He was he was a great general and a great strategist,
but he had some issues personally, it seemed to me.
And yet I think very gruff and and he enjoyed
being that way. Okay. Eisenhower, on the other hand, who
was the NATO commander uh and was really in charge
(30:57):
of everything, including D Day. He took a situation and
again I think that that I think Eisenhower was a
was a better leader, and he was rewarded with that
by becoming President of the United States. Uh. We have
these you have these, these these people that are held
(31:19):
up vice Lombadi is a great football coach and all
of that or you know, but sometimes the best football
coach can be someone like Belichick, who was pretty quiet.
I mean, you know, he was not a screamer or
a yeller. He had a lot of he had a
lot of flaws. I don't know if if you follow him,
(31:41):
but he was miserable when the team lost, and he
showed it and uh and it used to be really
interesting to watch him with his postgame news conferences and
the media guys would say to Belichick, well, what happened, coach?
You lost today? Why did you lose? Which was a
stupid question but or something like that, and Belichick would say,
(32:02):
the other team scored more points. What's your next question?
Almost like the answer. You know, he didn't have to say,
you're an idiot for asking that question. That what? But
it was the way it was, the way it was
the way it works. So the relationships and let's we
have to talk about relationships between partners in life, spouses,
(32:25):
and I want to talk about that when we come back,
because sometimes even in good marriages, you get to the
point where you are just at loggerheads with the other person.
And how do you know, how do you work that
relationship which is the most, the closest and the most
(32:45):
intimate relationship with the concept of empathy. And again, my
audience is failing me totally here. I'm embarrassed, but that's okay.
I get asked questions all night long. That's what I
do for a living. And I'm not even gonna give
the phone number because you I'm going to enjoy our
conversation with the balance of the of the program. Uh.
(33:08):
And I'll put the audience on notice that I am
not doing what we normally we do a postgame analysis
of the show that will not happen. Tonight. We'll be
back on Nightside with my guest who is a licensed
psycho therapist and has introduced us to what I think
is an important concept, the idea of empathy, which is
(33:28):
a combination of the word banter and empathy. So you
you diffuse the situation by having maybe you get away
from the area that is not working well for you.
I think I'm buying into this, and we'll continue our conversation.
(33:50):
My guest, Jill Robin Pain back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
It's Night Side, Boston's News radio.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
My guest we're talking about Bempathy is Jill Robin Pain.
And if you've been listening, I think you say what
empathy is, Joe. We do have a couple of callers
who I want to get to. But let's talk. How
do you how do you break through when you're in
this a disagreement with your spouse over something. I don't
(34:21):
know which side, whether whether the salt or the Peppa
shaker is on the right of the left or whatever.
What do you do on one of those things that
just bugs the other person that that you do. I
do a lot of things that bug my wife.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But how do you give me?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Can you give me an example? Because oh I.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Can give you the classic example is the toilet paper.
Does the toilet paper go over or under the roll?
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Right?
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Okay, Well, you know you're gonna say pick your battles.
One thing, it's how people talk. So if people are
gonna talk, you're gonna need to put some humor in
it and focus on what the real thing.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Is bothering you.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
What's what's bothering you about that? So again, you need
to empathize with your partner. Really you need to empathize.
Let me tell you. The best way to talk to
your partner is in bed. And I don't mean after
sex or before sex. I just mean lying down in
bed chit chatting because it's yeah, it's you're in a
(35:24):
reclined position. You're both it's a it's a nice comfortable feel.
You can be hugging, hugging each other. It's very hard
to get mad when you're discussing in that position.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
All right, let me do this. I have I have
the phone lines have exploded. Why they've exploded this Lake
Bud only knows. But let's go to the mall. Peter
and Everette. Peter, you are next on night Side. I
appreciate you calling in. Peter on with Jill, Robin Pink.
Go right ahead, Hi, Peter. Well, if Peter isn't there,
(35:58):
we'll put Peter on hold. Okay, we'll come back to Peter.
Let me go to Frank in Montreal. Frank, how are you, sir? Hi?
Speaker 6 (36:06):
Frank good Dan? How are you good? Good? Good? And
I'm trying to see if I could understand this correctly.
But would your theory or not theory but study apply
to a person? Disorder went out went out?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
You broke up on us? There for a second, Frank,
what type of disorder.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
A personality disorder, and more specifically a narcissist would empathy
and banter kind of go together? And my experience has
been at least of the narcissist, you constantly have to
appease their their ego. But then you know, you try
(36:59):
to I guess get your point across, but very very gently.
So is that sort of banter and empathy? And or
is that? Am I away?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Craig. I think that's a great question. And if you
can be as direct as you can on this one, Jill,
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Okay, So Frank, first of all, there's very few people
that are narcissistic. And second, you need to think about
you and what you want to accomplish in your conversation
with your person. And one let's not even call the
person a narcissist. Let's call them someone that has a
personality issue that's going to make it better. And then
(37:40):
you need to think about what do you want to accomplish,
do you want to win? What do you want from
this situation? More there too.
Speaker 6 (37:51):
Yeah, I'm sorry if this is a bad connection. I
guess I'm trying to see or have them realize sometimes
that they are that they need to change their their.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Approach to got it.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
I got it. So you're gonna need to instead of
talk about you or them, talk about something that takes
you away. So when we talk about third person, like
if you're talking to yourself and you say Frank likes
blah blah blah, it sort of pulls you away from
the situation. So when you're talking to this other person
(38:29):
let's call her Jane, let's say talk to her and say, gosh,
when people do things like this, this is what happens.
And I've heard that when people do this, they can
have this. Does that make sense? Take it away from
the two of you, because otherwise that person is going
(38:49):
to get defensive. Did I help you out?
Speaker 6 (38:52):
Yep? Very good, Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Appreciate the call very much. My friend will talk.
Speaker 6 (38:56):
Sooner, okay, Frank, okay, good, thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Let me get quick, Jim and Kingston. Jim, go right ahead.
We only have about a minute if if that for you,
go ahead.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Jim, Okay. Actually, just curious, is this an audio book
that we can listen to or is this an actual
print book? Uh So, I'm not sure how to get okay.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
So three of them are are written and then one
is written in audio, and it's My Meeting People. It's
not a game, and that's the one that has a
lot of things on what you're all talking about with relationships.
Meeting people. It's not a game. So if you get
my book, you can you can ask me questions in
an email, O call.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Me, give us the book again, Meeting people is not
a game.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
Uh huh. Meeting people, it's not a game, and it
is on audio and it says your path to genuine
connections through empathy.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
All right, perfect, Jim, that's a great question. I was
going to have to ask that question as well to
the call is called Lake Christine and John. I'm very sorry,
but we're flat out of time. Jill. If folks want
to contact you, get the book and they can get in.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Contact with you, please please go to my website Joe
Robinpain dot com. My email's there, everything's there, and I'm
also on all the platforms and you just say that
you okay.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Okay, I gotta go, Thanks Jill, thank you so much,
thank you very much for your time. Tonight, I'll end
us all we there's no there's no postgame tonight, but
I only have about ten seconds today. All dogs, all cats,
all pets go to heaven. That's my pale Charlie Ray
is the passed fifteen years ago in February. That's one
of your pets are past. They love you, You love them.
You'll see them again. I will see you later this
(40:45):
week on night Side. Have a great Wednesday and Thursday everyone,
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