October 15, 2025 • 38 mins
With the recent closure of roughly 20 Starbucks locations throughout Boston, how does that impact coffee culture in Boston? Will the chain’s closures help boost local coffee companies and coffee shops? What is your coffee routine and has it been disrupted at all by these closures? George Howell, the founder of the local coffee company George Howell Coffee joined us to discuss coffee culture locally here in Boston and the industry in general as it relates to consumers.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well in nineteen years, well eighteen plus years of Nightside,
I don't think we have ever dove deep into the
coffee industry. But that's what we're going to do this
next hour. Later on tonight, we will talk about Congressman
Seth Moulton's decision to challenge the incumbent Democratic US Center
(00:27):
at Marquee. So we'll do some politics later on, but
right now, we're going to talk about coffee. I have
a guest to I'll introduce you in a moment. But
this story came to our attention when we realized that
Starbucks has decided to spend about a billion dollars on
restructuring and also close a lot of stores here in
(00:49):
New England. And I guess around the country. For a while,
Starbucks used to be like a rocket ship. It seemed
like they were opening stores every other week, or maybe
in your neighborhood every other week. But things are going on.
I think all of you know that I'm a Dunkin
Donuts guy, dunc or Duncan coffee guy, and I guess
(01:12):
that's probably more from habit for anything. But we are
joined tonight to talk about what's going on in the
coffee industry with a gentleman who has spent his entire
life in the industry. His name is George Howell. George,
welcome to Nightside. How are you Tonight's truck.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Doing well man? Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, very welcome. Thanks for joining us. You started a
chain of coffee stores. I don't know if the word
chain is a good word or a bad word, but
you eventually grew the twenty three stores in the Greater
Boston area from the mid nineteen seventies to the mid
nineteen nineties, and you sold twenty three of those locations
(01:51):
which immediately turned into Starbucks in nineteen ninety four. Stayed
with Starbucks for a while as a consultant, and now
are back in the coffee retail business with George Howell
coffee at four locations in Greater Boston. So you just
can't kicked the coffee habit, can you. This is something
(02:12):
that you've come to know and and come to be
comfortable with. And thanks for joining us tonight because we
want to know what's going on in this crazy business. Uh.
My conversation with you earlier today, you explained to me
that what's going on with Starbucks is not a simple
just over expansion and then a retraction of a company.
(02:35):
What what What are the factors that that is causing
Starbucks to do this? In incredible? I don't know. Restructure,
I guess would be one way to describe it.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I mean from the from those of us who are
not experts like you, from those the the uninitiated who
think about coffee, and for me, I think about making
my own Duncans at home in the morning because it
gets pretty expensive every time you're going. You I got
to pay four bucks, well three bucks for dunk Golf,
and I'm sure it's more expensive at other places than
Duncan we hear about Starbucks? What's going on people walking
(03:10):
away from coffee? I don't think so. But tell us
from your perspective, what's the deal with Starbucks?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Well, I think it's a number of factors. One, there's
certainly a lot of increased competition in every city all
around the States, Europe, everywhere. There are more expensive, higher
quality cafes now in major cities in the US. They
(03:40):
compete on one side, and now there are a host
of companies coming in that are really aiming to mechanize
absolutely everything, reduced to labor, lower rents, all the rest
of it, and sell at least for the time being,
at near cost in order to build their structures. So
(04:05):
you have all of this happening at the same time.
You know, for instance, Starbucks has been growing like crazy
in China. They have over seven eight hundred Starbucks cafes
in China out of nowhere. Just a few years ago,
a company called Luckin came in in a Chinese company
(04:28):
is now equaling that number and is entering the United
States selling very inexpensive, not necessarily good quality coffee. And
you have a number of chains starting to appear in
the States. Westbourne really looking at the same thing. You
have as well, the trend for its high real estate prices.
(04:54):
A note that Starbucks is completely out of Harvard Square, Cambridge.
You know that's that's insane, right, You think that they'd
want to be there as as just you know, someplace
to be seen as a center.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, and also with seven or eight thousand Harvest students
and professors in faculty and staff circulating there every day. Yeah,
I mean, it's it would be the it would be
the place to be tell me about this Chinese company.
So has this sprung up like in the last five years?
It was coffee something. When you think about China, you
(05:35):
think about tea, not coffee. Are they Are they switching
over from from tea to coffee big time?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
All of Asia has been uh and China in particular
is growing like like absolutely crazy in terms of coffee. That,
by the way, has put a lot of pressure on
coffee price, which is another another issue that's talk abouts
is facing as well as everybody in the So let me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Let me ask you this. If all of a sudden
we have two billion potential coffee customers being exposed to
coffee every day in China as well as other countries
in India with large populations in Asia, I should say, India, Pakistan,
et cetera. What is that doing to the world's coffee supply?
(06:21):
Is the coffee comes from coffee beans, obviously, I assume correct?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I know, little Yeah, they're actually seeds right growing inside
proof that's the size of a cherry, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, and and so odd there enough is there enough
aariable land in parts of the world to provide coffee.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
For That's the good question, that is, I mean the
coffee world is a buzz over over you know, what
we call climate change. And in Brazil, we're certainly seeing
that Brazil is literally producing forty percent of the world's coffee.
(07:05):
When Brazil sneezes, the world catches cold for coffee. Essentially,
we are seeing since twenty twenty one, every single year
has been freezes and droughts and high temperatures hitting records
over and over again, and so their production has really
(07:30):
been dropping over the last four years. And at the
same time you're seeing consumption world consumption actually increase over
the same four years.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And the law of supply and demand would say that
the four coffee prices are going up. But then there
comes a point, does they're not where the company that's
at the high end of that food chain, if you will,
they want to charge nine dollars for a cup of
coffee stats to kill themselves that the public says, guess what,
I can get a good cup of coffee for five
bucks or six bucks and not have to pay nine
(08:06):
every day.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So there was always, you know, there's always a threshold
in which you start to see that. By the way,
when Coffee Connection was born, my first company in nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, I know what you're going to say, Go ahead,
tell me how much.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, that was half the trees in Brazil were wiped out.
It takes five years.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I thought you were going to tell me then when
you opened your first coffee connection in Harvest Square, you
were charging fifty nine cents a cup or something like that.
What what were you charging when you just to put
it in perspective fifty years ago.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I have a photograph of this barrel that had coffee
bean Hawaiian ConA coffee beans in it from nineteen seventy five,
two dollars and ninety nine cents a pound. How's that?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
That's not bad now? But so what would you were
you selling? Just were you selling also? You know, cups
of coffee as well?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, and we did. We started sometime somewhere around fifty cents.
It's hard to remember all the prices for coffee because
once that killer frost hits, now you're talking three to
four years before production can catch up again because all
these trees have to be replanted. So the price went
in today, it went from about seventy five cents on
(09:24):
as a commodity price to nearly to over three dollars
in a matter of two years. That's a frease that
basically was the equivalent of fourteen dollars a pound in
today's terms. Right, that's green. That's not even in this
country or roasted.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Do we produce any coffee beans anywhere in the US
or no?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Under one percent total Puerto Rico and Hawaiian ConA.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's it, Okay, fair enough. My guest is George Howell.
He has war stores here in Boston. He had at
one point, many years ago, Coffee Connection twenty three locations.
He sold those locations to Starbucks. Things are changing in
the coffee world. I know a lot about politics, I
(10:15):
know a lot about economics, but I don't know a
lot about coffee. As they say, I am the traditional
blue collar Duncan coffee drinker who only a few years
ago realized that I could actually brew coffee at my home.
And well, it said you some money. It does, And
(10:36):
I'll tell you I can go down and have breakfast
and have two cups of coffee and with little effort.
But I know that's not necessarily people who are heading
off to work in Boston and other places at your locales.
I know that your reputation is excellent reputation because of
the fifty years that you've been involved in this business.
(11:00):
To get folks out there who know more about coffee
to join the conversation six one, seven, two, four, ten
thirty or six months seven nine, three, one ten thirty. Uh,
it love to know what your coffee habits are. If
you are impacted by this Starbucks closures here in the
Boston area or elsewhere where you are going to find
(11:20):
your next Starbucks if you no longer have a Starbucks. Uh.
If you're like me and you have been a Duncan doughnut,
a Dunken coffee connoisseur, if you will, we'd love to
hear from you, And if you are concerned about coffee
is such an essential product. When I you really begin
(11:42):
to realize that so many people Duncan has the phrase
Duncan runs on the country runs on Duncan. Well, I
think that's true that we run on coffee, and then
everybody has to wake up in the morning and a
lot of people have to have that first jolt of
java or the day doesn't really get going. So this
is a little different hour we're doing six one, seven, four,
(12:03):
ten thirty six seven, I older callers and new callers. George,
I got to take a break. If you can hold
that thought for one second. I gotta just jump on
here and share a couple of commercial messages and we
come back. We'll, we'll, we'll continue our conversation. My guess
is George Howe.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He now runs four locations in Boston called George Howell Coffee.
We'll be back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
With me is George how We're talking about coffee and
what's going on, uh in the business, in the industry,
industry locally, and also uh internationally. George, before we went
to that break, I think I interrupted you. You were
about to make a comment, Go.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Right ahead, Yeah, on. You know, is there more space
to grow coffee or whatever's climate change? What we're seeing
is the coffee is having to grow at higher and
higher altitudes. Like take Guatemala. A lot of their coffee
was grown at three thousand feet. Today there's almost no
coffee grown at three thousand. It's all over four thousand
(13:14):
and five thousand. You couldn't grow coffee at a little
over six thousand Now it's going up over to six
thousand and seven thousand feet and as we all know,
the higher up you go, the less land there is.
So that's another issue.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Just to mention, just coming back to this situation that
we have. If there are more and more people becoming
coffee drinkers, and if in Asia a society that used
to rely on tea now is switching to coffee. At
(13:51):
the same time with the production of coffee, whether it's
climate change or whatever the cause is, we could we
could have a whole conversation about climate change. But this
is a great example where maybe climate change is having
a direct impact. You have you have two forces here.
You have people coming into the market and you have
(14:12):
product being less available, which is going to with economics
one on one force the price of coffee up. At
what point does coffee become potentially prohibitive That has to
be of some concern to the industry.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yes, the consumer will tell us.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
No, I do get that. The consumer will tell you yeah,
that's that's that's fine. But then I guess the question is,
with science and uh AI now coming along, is it
possible in your opinion that if these these two uh tendencies,
(14:56):
these trends, more people coming into the market from parts
of the world that is just learning about coffee, and
the availability and the prices go up. Do you think
that at some point some brilliant scientists or group of
scientists will event invent something to take the place of coffee?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Oh yeah, all of the above.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Oh that's gonna be. That's gonna be troubling to think
that future generations might be not drinking what we drink
is real coffee. That has to concern you, not only
is a businessman, as somebody who's dedicated your life to
this product.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Well athetically, especially because I love coffee even more for
its slavery than for its caffee. So yeah, yeah, a
lot to me.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Is there Let me ask you this, s George, isn't
there also? And I want my audience to weigh in this,
isn't there also something about coffee? Because it has I
never drank coffee until I started working the morning shift
in television back in the mid nineteen nineties. I was
I was not a coffee drinker. I never drank coffee,
but in the morning, when you're out and about doing
(16:07):
stories at five am in live shots at six o'clock
in the morning, Well, normally doesn't help, but it's totally
necessary just to wake up. And but there's something about
the smell of coffee brewing, whether it's again in a
in a store or in your own, in your own kitchen,
that that says, Okay, the day has started. There's something
(16:28):
there psychologically above and beyond just the value of the
caffeine and the value of of the flavor and the experience.
It says something about the clock, your your personal cloth.
Am I getting a little romantic here about coffee? That
that I'm going over the top? But I really believe
(16:49):
that that this says, this says I mean, okay, this
is a new day. This, this, this, there's more to
this than just coffee. The slate wipe's clean. Yesterday I
screwed up this that I screwed up this, I can
make today a better day.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Do you sense that?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Or?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Am I way over pay?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's possible. There are some people who are theorized, you know,
of the eighteenth century in Europe and stuff was called
the Age of reason. Guess what century coffee was introduced
in full blast?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'm going to guess the eighteenth century?
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Yeah, right, so you'll never know, right, Yeah, yeah, wow, wow,
this is are you again?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
We're going to go to phone calls after the break,
after the news break here at about of the hour.
But generally on this topic, are you when you take
everything that we've talked about, all of these economic forces,
these population forces, et cetera, Are you optimistic or are
you pessimistic? Are you a glass half full guy or
a glass half empty guy?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I worry, but you know, I'm my own mission coffee
connection already, but even more so with with the current
company George Howell. Coffee really has been to take it
in the direction of wine. Really, I mean, commodity has
always been Coffee has always been a commodity, really, uh.
(18:17):
And the price has not varied very much from the
most expensive to the least. That's changing drammatically because of
the because of the development of quality that coffee farmers
are discovering, and so they've got varieties and with real
craftsmanship and skill, they're producing coffees that when when you
(18:41):
drink it black, are naturally sweet. You don't need sugar,
you don't need milk, there's really no bitterness to it,
and it can have fruit notes or floral notes that
you just wouldn't believe would be coming from that from
those coffee beans. So the range of prices is growing
(19:05):
as well, at the at the lower level. Uh. In
opposition to that, the opposite. You know, I think you're
going to have artificial coffee soon. It'll be terrible, you know,
a little worse than instant coffee, which is getting work,
which is pretty bad to start with. Uh. And you know,
(19:26):
if I'm drinking that, that's.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
What the that's what the astronauts drink.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Right. Well, I'm adding milk and sugar to that because
I can't help it. Right, But if I'm drinking my
stuff a really high quality elsewhere, I'm drinking it black.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So so you you have look, look, you've been around
this your entire life. Okay, so you have developed a
palette almost similar to a genuine wine connoisseur.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Going in that direction. Yes, love rain coffee, like like
there's a rainbow of flavors that coffee by itself, with
no additives has and very few people know that.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Still, well, let's see we'll get people reacting on the
other side of the news. We've got a couple of
callers already. If you'd like to fill the lines up
six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty. Six one seven, nine,
three one ten thirty. We have spanned the globe on
this topic, and I'd love to get as many of
you involved now. Six one seven, two, five, four ten
thirty is filled. However, I got a couple of lines.
(20:28):
Here's here's an inside tip. Six one seven, nine three
one ten thirty. Your experience your relationship with coffee George
Howe of George George Howe Coffee four locations in Greater Boston.
We'll give you those locations also, uh during this next
half hour in case you are unfamiliar, and you'll be
(20:49):
able to stop in and avail yourself and test the
product that mister Howell has been involved in for really
the entirety of his life. We'll be back on side.
My name's Dan Ray. Let's have at it right after
the break.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZ,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
My guest is George Howl. George, if you're ready, we'll
get to some phone calls. Okay, ready, you got it all? Right?
Here we go. Let me go. First off to Murray
is calling in from Lexington, Massachusetts. Hey, Murray. Welcome to
night Side. Have you called us before? This is your
first time.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
This is the second time, Dan, but it's been a
lot of years since I spoke with you.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, we can give you a round of applause, but
we can say welcome back. It don't be a stranger.
Go right ahead. You're all with George.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
Hon Holy, such a pleasure, George, if I may call
you that. I remember when you we are in Lexington
and we you had your coffee connection in Lexington on
Massaff right in the center. I'm sure you remember that
very well.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I know you were.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
You were there with another enterprise following that. But anyhow,
I have to tell you Geor which the coffee actually
coffee connection has for me made a lot of connections.
I mean, we used to gather there. I think it
was somewhere around nineteen eighty five or eighty six when
(22:14):
the store opened. I can't remember exactly, but I had
heard nice things about you. You came in from was
it California, San Francisco when you moved to the Boston area. Yes,
that's true exact. We'll welcome to the area. It's a
beautiful area. As a San Francisco of course, But the
thing is that I developed so many friends because of
(22:36):
the Coffee Connection. I said, hey, guys, this has really
connected us. They've got the right name for the right
store and the coffee. Yes, the coffee was absolutely phenomenal.
It's where I really learned to enjoy coffee. When I
was doing my residency at BU. That's when I really
started liking coffee. Not for the flavor of it. It
(22:59):
tasted good, but it was coming out of a machine,
not nothing like Coffee Connection and some of the better
coffees we have. But I found that despite the fact
that it's got can and it might make some people
a little nervous, a little shaky, et cetera, I found
it totally relaxing. I could drink three or four cups
a day and sleep well at night. I just found
(23:22):
it just a relaxing drink. I hate to say it,
but it's almost like smoking a cigarette, except it's a
lot less, it's a lot Healthiergrett's.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
He's what you're saying right ahead.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
It's not what we know, Dan, And.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It's delicious, as you pointed out.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Absolutely delicious.
Speaker 6 (23:47):
It's an absolutely right and with my friends from Coffee Connection.
When you sold it out this tar Bucks. Another story
came in. I'm sure you've heard it Beats Coffee and
Teas from the Sean Francisco Bay Area, Berkeley. And so
I enjoyed the coffee here. But George, I have to
tell you something. There were a bunch of us that
(24:10):
tied it up with a coffee connection here. That is
thirty years no, forty years later, Yeah, nineteen eighty five
to now, and we're still talking about coffee connection and
how good the coffee was. Now, the coffee piece is
very good. I'm not saying it's not. It's very good,
but yours was our favorite.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And Murray, let me ask you. Have you, Murray, have
you tried Duncan.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Dan?
Speaker 6 (24:35):
If I need a quick breakfast and I have to
get to the office, I'm I'm retired now, and if
I didn't have time to go in, I would grab
a Duncan, but it will be would be mostly for
the bagel and the cream tea, and the bagel and
the cream tees or the bacon and the eggs.
Speaker 7 (24:53):
And I'm not supposed to all.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right, a coffee connection is no longer in business. Be
concerned about, George Howle, coffee and we'll we'll talk about
that later.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
I want to go to George Howell Coffee, so I'm.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Gonna give you thirty second Murray. I'm gonna give you
the second time called the thirty seconds here because we've
we've spent three hours at three three fifty coffee connection.
So I've let you go a little bit. You can
wax poetic poetic for thirty more seconds. Go ahead, you're
on the clock.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Okay, No, I just want to continue doing it. I
want to hear the George Howell coffee houses are coffee connected,
the George Howell coffee outlets star because I'm gonna go, okay,
we will get those for you.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You beat the thirty second mark, Murray, come back soon, okay,
thanks right, good. Let me go to Alex and Millers.
Alex your next night's I go ahead, Alex.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Hey, good, good, good evening. I was gonna say, uh
for uh, you know, I've tried Starbucks coffee. I've tried
Dunkin Donuts, but I found the Starbucks is very bitter
or very uh you know. I really it's like burns.
And I do like international coffee, like either Greek or Turkish.
(26:04):
So my question is coffee is coffee, so it's all
in the way it's roasted, right, So.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
If you take it, it's a lot to do with it.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Right.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
So basically speaking, the same coffee bean that comes from
country on the Columbia wherever can taste five different ways. Correct, correct,
absolutely correct.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
You can destroy it in the roast, okay, you really can.
You know, we do some dark roast, not very but
my whole feeling is a lighter roast, not too light,
but a lighter roast gives you the flavors that are
in the bean, not the roastiness that's on the outside
(26:46):
that smothers the actual flavor within.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Right.
Speaker 8 (26:50):
Found I found that when you know, because I make
coffee at home and it's really pretty good. I use folders,
and I found I stuck with that brand. It seems
to be not too strong and not too weak. And
you know, if you if you put cream or milk,
it becomes you know, uh, you know, that much more appealing.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
All right, Alex, thank you for your experience. We appreciate
it very much. Talk so all right, good night, We're
going to take quick break here. More phone calls coming
up from my guest George Howell. I prefer your questions
of him. He's the expert. Six one seven, two four
ten thirty six one seven, nine ten thirty. So far
(27:33):
we've had Murray who wants to advertise Coffee Connection, which
is no longer in business. We will get the George
Howl coffee locations mentioned in the next break. Get your
pencils and papers and your GPS directions ready, uh, and
we'll we'll take some more phone calls. Go ahead, George.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
No, just to let you know, I don't know Dan
never spoke to him.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
The Murray you mean Murray Murray. I'm sorry, right, that's okay.
Mury Murray's remembers your product, which is great. I remember
restaurants which have long left Boston, and unfortunately, sometimes the
great restaurants are the ones that leave, and the ones
that stay are overpriced and not particularly good. So again,
I appreciate your time tonight and your expertise, and I
(28:20):
hope our audience might have questions that that would actually
plumb that expertise. We'll be back on Nightside right after
the break. The only lines open right now six one seven.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Night Side with Dan Ray. I's Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
From mister Hal George how we have full lines. We're
going to try to get to everybody here. Let's see
what we can do. John and Brookline. John, you are
next on Nightside. Go right ahead.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
Thanks for taking my call. Dan and your guests is
very interesting. I have a kind of a question that
maybe it doesn't make any sense. What happened to the
coffee that we could get You could actually smell the aroma.
I drink about four cups a day. I hit my
(29:08):
own bun machine, but there's no I at one time
I thought we could smell the coffee after it's pour
like a China.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, they used to say wake up and smell, wake
up and smell the coffee. What about that, George.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Well, percolators were famous for that. They put out the smell.
And then there was that's probably what it is. Dark
roast has clearly the smell of the roast, like burned toast.
Then there are some really amazing coffees, some new varieties
that are coming out, like Gisha that's very expensive. But
(29:47):
then there was a pink boord bon as it's called,
coming out of Columbia, which has a floral smell to
it and you could literally smell it. Geisha you can
smell from ten feet away, sometimes jasmine like notes. And
there are certain fruity coffees that you can smell as well,
(30:07):
and pure coffees. It depends on the strength and how
well it's brewed, but you do get the aroma. A
lot of coffees serve too thin and so you get nothing.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
Yeah, is it because of the real hot water or
that kills it though?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
So that yeah, you want to brew it around two
hundred and five somewhere in their degrees fahrenheit period anything low.
A lot of the automatics, well that's the thing. Actually
a lot of the automatics even today, the cheaper ones
are brewing at one five. You cannot that's too low.
You're not getting what you want out of the coffee.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Good information, George, for people, how can they tell you
that automatic? How can they tell what they what the
what the level of the heat is.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
If you need to ask, you know, and when you
go on the internet, typically they give you specs.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Check the specs, uh okay, And do those automatics lose
their effectiveness in terms of delivering the heat over time?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
They can?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
You really?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah? And so once again, if you really after the
quality Unfortunately, you have to make a one time expense,
you know, and it's going to be I don't know,
two hundred two three hundred dollars period, gotcha?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Okay, all right, hey John, thanks for the call and
get right lines, buddy, appreciate the call. Real good questions,
Thank you, perfect, talk to you soon. Let me go
next to Mark in Boston. Mark, you're on with George
Howell of George Howell Coffee.
Speaker 9 (31:38):
Go ahead, Mark, Well, good evening, And I'm sorry if
maybe this has already been asked, but let me just
preface my coffee connection story. I was friends with entertainers.
They work for Ringland Brothers Circus, and they traveled around
the United States. They couldn't wait to get the Boston
to go to coffee connection by Coffee who was the
(31:58):
best coffee in the United Stay.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, goodness, thank you.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
All right, that's my coffee connection story. All right, So
I missed the first part of the program, and I
might have already been said, but will you want to
non compete after you sold the company?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, briefly, but it didn't matter because I wasn't really
after opening any new stores. I really wanted to learn
a lot more about coffee by going to Origin and
that's what I really did for the next multiple years.
So yes, I had a noncompete, but it didn't get
in my way SRD.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Mark. I appreciate the calls and the questions. And by
the way, if you want to hear the first of
the hour all our programs posted at the podcast, all
I have to do is go to Nightside on Demand.
This hour will be posted sometime around two am tomorrow morning.
When you get up and you brewin the coffee, you
can just go to Nightside and Demand and check out
the nine o'clock hour from last night. Okay, I will.
Speaker 9 (32:53):
But I also asked you have plans to open more stores?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, we have four right.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Now, and we're gonna give those addresses market So get
your pencil and paper and we'll give you those addresses
as well. Okay them.
Speaker 9 (33:08):
I was just worrying about the future.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Well, we got to answer that question for you Mark today. Yeah,
we'll get you that information. I just got three other
folks who I'm trying to accommodate as well. Mark, Thank
you very thanks. All right, let's keep rolling here, Arthur
and Hollis. Then Arthur, you got to help me out
here because you're calling late, as a couple of other
people are as well.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Go right ahead, all right, Dan, first time call it.
Thank you very much, great show.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Well we'll give you right of the pass from my
versus of the studio audience. Go right ahead, Arthur.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Okay, mister Howell. It is great to hear that you've
got some stores that are opening up. I was involved
in a small coffee shop about ten years ago or so,
and I actually still have a bad your espresso.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So we're losing him here. Yeah, he's a caller from
Hollist and one of my favorite towns, so super. I
was just saying, Arthur, I love Holliston, used to live
close to Holliston. The super at the Fisks General Store.
And you've got a couple of great coffee got one
great coffee place by the train station in Holliston.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Yes, yes we do. Can you hear me now?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yes? Gotta be quick though, because they got two.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
More real quick. I actually have a package of George
Powell espresso Sorrento beans.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Still all right, I hope.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
You're enjoyed here that you have that you do have
new stores opening up. And one quick question, what is
the best way for long term storage of.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Beans sealed and frozen frozen.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Okay, yes, great question, better answer. Thank you, Thank you, Arthur,
call again. Appreciate it. Thank you. Let's keep rolling. You're
gonna get two in. We're gonna try Michael and Boston. Michael,
go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Hi, thank you. I have passed Washington Street, George Howell
many times, and I have never gone in. I'm a
coffee drinker, and I will definitely go in tomorrow at
eleven o'clock. I'm very anxious to try your place, mister Hall.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I'm a nice coffee drinker. It would be a difference
in taste and flavor between your ice and your hot coffee.
Is there ever a difference?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, No, it's a whole other it's
a whole other ballgame. Look into getting yourself these these
setups that you can get. We will be selling them
as well. Where you can brew coffee and freeze it
immediately within a minute and a half. That's the best
kind of ice coffee you can get. And it's still
(35:44):
not that available commercially.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Will you be there to the store? I should try.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Our ice is as close as you can get to that. Now,
let me.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Ask you this, George, will you be at that store
tomorrow morning at eleven o'clock because.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
If Mike, if Michael uh calls follows my company and
acting uh and says he was on the radio, I
will find out next week sometime and I'll be there.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Oh, that's kind of you.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Sounds great.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Imagine there are many things to supplement the coffee in
the store, like, oh, certainly are and always getting better.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
All right, Michael, we got to save some time to
get it. These addresses on. Thanks Michael, Thank you very much,
Thank you. All right, thanks Michael. Here, George, we're are
the full locations real quickly if you can.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, the most recent one is the Lyric Building. That's
the two tower white tower over the Turnpike where mass
Ave meets Newberry Street.
Speaker 7 (36:46):
We're there.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
And then the main one as well is five oh
five Washington Street. It's adjoining the Godfrey Hotel. It's right
where Macy's is across the street. Uh. And then Boston
Public Market is the third.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
That's on the other side of downtown Boston. Uh. We're there.
And then the fourth one UH is oh god the
bookstore in Harvard Square loves Struck and they have a
cafe there our crew and they are serving our coffees
as well, so they're perfect.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
That's good. And you know what we got. We got
a few seconds left from Mannie. Let's get one more in.
Rob will push it a little bit. Manny in Boston. Manny,
you're next on night side. You got to be quick,
go ahead, Manny.
Speaker 10 (37:33):
Okay, Hi George, George. I love the coffee connection. I
miss it every day. You must have the best Sumatra.
You're going to have the same. I've tried many none.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Compared to yours Sumatra. They have changed the variety and
they have destroyed it. I mean I cannot find any
decent Sumatra for years now. I hate to tell you that,
because all right, we would love to grab it.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
We have to end that down note, unfortunately, Mannie, thank you,
thank you for the question.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Tomatra. I will have it all right.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Good luck with that, okay. In search of a great Samantra.
George Howell enjoyed it very much. Thank you so much
for joining us tonight, and I'd love to have you back, Okay.
Thanks George, best of luck with the new locations.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Thanks and thank everybody else.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
You're welcome. We came back on talk a little politics,
Molten versus Markey, or Markey versus Moulten, whichever you like.
We'll be talking about that on the other side of
the ten o'clock news here on night Side
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well in nineteen years, well eighteen plus years of Nightside,
I don't think we have ever dove deep into the
coffee industry. But that's what we're going to do this
next hour. Later on tonight, we will talk about Congressman
Seth Moulton's decision to challenge the incumbent Democratic US Center
(00:27):
at Marquee. So we'll do some politics later on, but
right now, we're going to talk about coffee. I have
a guest to I'll introduce you in a moment. But
this story came to our attention when we realized that
Starbucks has decided to spend about a billion dollars on
restructuring and also close a lot of stores here in
(00:49):
New England. And I guess around the country. For a while,
Starbucks used to be like a rocket ship. It seemed
like they were opening stores every other week, or maybe
in your neighborhood every other week. But things are going on.
I think all of you know that I'm a Dunkin
Donuts guy, dunc or Duncan coffee guy, and I guess
(01:12):
that's probably more from habit for anything. But we are
joined tonight to talk about what's going on in the
coffee industry with a gentleman who has spent his entire
life in the industry. His name is George Howell. George,
welcome to Nightside. How are you Tonight's truck.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Doing well man? Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, very welcome. Thanks for joining us. You started a
chain of coffee stores. I don't know if the word
chain is a good word or a bad word, but
you eventually grew the twenty three stores in the Greater
Boston area from the mid nineteen seventies to the mid
nineteen nineties, and you sold twenty three of those locations
(01:51):
which immediately turned into Starbucks in nineteen ninety four. Stayed
with Starbucks for a while as a consultant, and now
are back in the coffee retail business with George Howell
coffee at four locations in Greater Boston. So you just
can't kicked the coffee habit, can you. This is something
(02:12):
that you've come to know and and come to be
comfortable with. And thanks for joining us tonight because we
want to know what's going on in this crazy business. Uh.
My conversation with you earlier today, you explained to me
that what's going on with Starbucks is not a simple
just over expansion and then a retraction of a company.
(02:35):
What what What are the factors that that is causing
Starbucks to do this? In incredible? I don't know. Restructure,
I guess would be one way to describe it.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I mean from the from those of us who are
not experts like you, from those the the uninitiated who
think about coffee, and for me, I think about making
my own Duncans at home in the morning because it
gets pretty expensive every time you're going. You I got
to pay four bucks, well three bucks for dunk Golf,
and I'm sure it's more expensive at other places than
Duncan we hear about Starbucks? What's going on people walking
(03:10):
away from coffee? I don't think so. But tell us
from your perspective, what's the deal with Starbucks?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Well, I think it's a number of factors. One, there's
certainly a lot of increased competition in every city all
around the States, Europe, everywhere. There are more expensive, higher
quality cafes now in major cities in the US. They
(03:40):
compete on one side, and now there are a host
of companies coming in that are really aiming to mechanize
absolutely everything, reduced to labor, lower rents, all the rest
of it, and sell at least for the time being,
at near cost in order to build their structures. So
(04:05):
you have all of this happening at the same time.
You know, for instance, Starbucks has been growing like crazy
in China. They have over seven eight hundred Starbucks cafes
in China out of nowhere. Just a few years ago,
a company called Luckin came in in a Chinese company
(04:28):
is now equaling that number and is entering the United
States selling very inexpensive, not necessarily good quality coffee. And
you have a number of chains starting to appear in
the States. Westbourne really looking at the same thing. You
have as well, the trend for its high real estate prices.
(04:54):
A note that Starbucks is completely out of Harvard Square, Cambridge.
You know that's that's insane, right, You think that they'd
want to be there as as just you know, someplace
to be seen as a center.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, and also with seven or eight thousand Harvest students
and professors in faculty and staff circulating there every day. Yeah,
I mean, it's it would be the it would be
the place to be tell me about this Chinese company.
So has this sprung up like in the last five years?
It was coffee something. When you think about China, you
(05:35):
think about tea, not coffee. Are they Are they switching
over from from tea to coffee big time?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
All of Asia has been uh and China in particular
is growing like like absolutely crazy in terms of coffee. That,
by the way, has put a lot of pressure on
coffee price, which is another another issue that's talk abouts
is facing as well as everybody in the So let me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Let me ask you this. If all of a sudden
we have two billion potential coffee customers being exposed to
coffee every day in China as well as other countries
in India with large populations in Asia, I should say, India, Pakistan,
et cetera. What is that doing to the world's coffee supply?
(06:21):
Is the coffee comes from coffee beans, obviously, I assume correct?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I know, little Yeah, they're actually seeds right growing inside
proof that's the size of a cherry, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, and and so odd there enough is there enough
aariable land in parts of the world to provide coffee.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
For That's the good question, that is, I mean the
coffee world is a buzz over over you know, what
we call climate change. And in Brazil, we're certainly seeing
that Brazil is literally producing forty percent of the world's coffee.
(07:05):
When Brazil sneezes, the world catches cold for coffee. Essentially,
we are seeing since twenty twenty one, every single year
has been freezes and droughts and high temperatures hitting records
over and over again, and so their production has really
(07:30):
been dropping over the last four years. And at the
same time you're seeing consumption world consumption actually increase over
the same four years.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And the law of supply and demand would say that
the four coffee prices are going up. But then there
comes a point, does they're not where the company that's
at the high end of that food chain, if you will,
they want to charge nine dollars for a cup of
coffee stats to kill themselves that the public says, guess what,
I can get a good cup of coffee for five
bucks or six bucks and not have to pay nine
(08:06):
every day.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So there was always, you know, there's always a threshold
in which you start to see that. By the way,
when Coffee Connection was born, my first company in nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, I know what you're going to say, Go ahead,
tell me how much.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, that was half the trees in Brazil were wiped out.
It takes five years.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I thought you were going to tell me then when
you opened your first coffee connection in Harvest Square, you
were charging fifty nine cents a cup or something like that.
What what were you charging when you just to put
it in perspective fifty years ago.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I have a photograph of this barrel that had coffee
bean Hawaiian ConA coffee beans in it from nineteen seventy five,
two dollars and ninety nine cents a pound. How's that?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
That's not bad now? But so what would you were
you selling? Just were you selling also? You know, cups
of coffee as well?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, and we did. We started sometime somewhere around fifty cents.
It's hard to remember all the prices for coffee because
once that killer frost hits, now you're talking three to
four years before production can catch up again because all
these trees have to be replanted. So the price went
in today, it went from about seventy five cents on
(09:24):
as a commodity price to nearly to over three dollars
in a matter of two years. That's a frease that
basically was the equivalent of fourteen dollars a pound in
today's terms. Right, that's green. That's not even in this
country or roasted.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Do we produce any coffee beans anywhere in the US
or no?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Under one percent total Puerto Rico and Hawaiian ConA.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That's it, Okay, fair enough. My guest is George Howell.
He has war stores here in Boston. He had at
one point, many years ago, Coffee Connection twenty three locations.
He sold those locations to Starbucks. Things are changing in
the coffee world. I know a lot about politics, I
(10:15):
know a lot about economics, but I don't know a
lot about coffee. As they say, I am the traditional
blue collar Duncan coffee drinker who only a few years
ago realized that I could actually brew coffee at my home.
And well, it said you some money. It does, And
(10:36):
I'll tell you I can go down and have breakfast
and have two cups of coffee and with little effort.
But I know that's not necessarily people who are heading
off to work in Boston and other places at your locales.
I know that your reputation is excellent reputation because of
the fifty years that you've been involved in this business.
(11:00):
To get folks out there who know more about coffee
to join the conversation six one, seven, two, four, ten
thirty or six months seven nine, three, one ten thirty. Uh,
it love to know what your coffee habits are. If
you are impacted by this Starbucks closures here in the
Boston area or elsewhere where you are going to find
(11:20):
your next Starbucks if you no longer have a Starbucks. Uh.
If you're like me and you have been a Duncan doughnut,
a Dunken coffee connoisseur, if you will, we'd love to
hear from you, And if you are concerned about coffee
is such an essential product. When I you really begin
(11:42):
to realize that so many people Duncan has the phrase
Duncan runs on the country runs on Duncan. Well, I
think that's true that we run on coffee, and then
everybody has to wake up in the morning and a
lot of people have to have that first jolt of
java or the day doesn't really get going. So this
is a little different hour we're doing six one, seven, four,
(12:03):
ten thirty six seven, I older callers and new callers. George,
I got to take a break. If you can hold
that thought for one second. I gotta just jump on
here and share a couple of commercial messages and we
come back. We'll, we'll, we'll continue our conversation. My guess
is George Howe.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
He now runs four locations in Boston called George Howell Coffee.
We'll be back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
With me is George how We're talking about coffee and
what's going on, uh in the business, in the industry,
industry locally, and also uh internationally. George, before we went
to that break, I think I interrupted you. You were
about to make a comment, Go.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Right ahead, Yeah, on. You know, is there more space
to grow coffee or whatever's climate change? What we're seeing
is the coffee is having to grow at higher and
higher altitudes. Like take Guatemala. A lot of their coffee
was grown at three thousand feet. Today there's almost no
coffee grown at three thousand. It's all over four thousand
(13:14):
and five thousand. You couldn't grow coffee at a little
over six thousand Now it's going up over to six
thousand and seven thousand feet and as we all know,
the higher up you go, the less land there is.
So that's another issue.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Just to mention, just coming back to this situation that
we have. If there are more and more people becoming
coffee drinkers, and if in Asia a society that used
to rely on tea now is switching to coffee. At
(13:51):
the same time with the production of coffee, whether it's
climate change or whatever the cause is, we could we
could have a whole conversation about climate change. But this
is a great example where maybe climate change is having
a direct impact. You have you have two forces here.
You have people coming into the market and you have
(14:12):
product being less available, which is going to with economics
one on one force the price of coffee up. At
what point does coffee become potentially prohibitive That has to
be of some concern to the industry.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yes, the consumer will tell us.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
No, I do get that. The consumer will tell you yeah,
that's that's that's fine. But then I guess the question is,
with science and uh AI now coming along, is it
possible in your opinion that if these these two uh tendencies,
(14:56):
these trends, more people coming into the market from parts
of the world that is just learning about coffee, and
the availability and the prices go up. Do you think
that at some point some brilliant scientists or group of
scientists will event invent something to take the place of coffee?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Oh yeah, all of the above.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Oh that's gonna be. That's gonna be troubling to think
that future generations might be not drinking what we drink
is real coffee. That has to concern you, not only
is a businessman, as somebody who's dedicated your life to
this product.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Well athetically, especially because I love coffee even more for
its slavery than for its caffee. So yeah, yeah, a
lot to me.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Is there Let me ask you this, s George, isn't
there also? And I want my audience to weigh in this,
isn't there also something about coffee? Because it has I
never drank coffee until I started working the morning shift
in television back in the mid nineteen nineties. I was
I was not a coffee drinker. I never drank coffee,
but in the morning, when you're out and about doing
(16:07):
stories at five am in live shots at six o'clock
in the morning, Well, normally doesn't help, but it's totally
necessary just to wake up. And but there's something about
the smell of coffee brewing, whether it's again in a
in a store or in your own, in your own kitchen,
that that says, Okay, the day has started. There's something
(16:28):
there psychologically above and beyond just the value of the
caffeine and the value of of the flavor and the experience.
It says something about the clock, your your personal cloth.
Am I getting a little romantic here about coffee? That
that I'm going over the top? But I really believe
(16:49):
that that this says, this says I mean, okay, this
is a new day. This, this, this, there's more to
this than just coffee. The slate wipe's clean. Yesterday I
screwed up this that I screwed up this, I can
make today a better day.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Do you sense that?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Or?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Am I way over pay?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's possible. There are some people who are theorized, you know,
of the eighteenth century in Europe and stuff was called
the Age of reason. Guess what century coffee was introduced
in full blast?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'm going to guess the eighteenth century?
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Yeah, right, so you'll never know, right, Yeah, yeah, wow, wow,
this is are you again?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
We're going to go to phone calls after the break,
after the news break here at about of the hour.
But generally on this topic, are you when you take
everything that we've talked about, all of these economic forces,
these population forces, et cetera, Are you optimistic or are
you pessimistic? Are you a glass half full guy or
a glass half empty guy?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I worry, but you know, I'm my own mission coffee
connection already, but even more so with with the current
company George Howell. Coffee really has been to take it
in the direction of wine. Really, I mean, commodity has
always been Coffee has always been a commodity, really, uh.
(18:17):
And the price has not varied very much from the
most expensive to the least. That's changing drammatically because of
the because of the development of quality that coffee farmers
are discovering, and so they've got varieties and with real
craftsmanship and skill, they're producing coffees that when when you
(18:41):
drink it black, are naturally sweet. You don't need sugar,
you don't need milk, there's really no bitterness to it,
and it can have fruit notes or floral notes that
you just wouldn't believe would be coming from that from
those coffee beans. So the range of prices is growing
(19:05):
as well, at the at the lower level. Uh. In
opposition to that, the opposite. You know, I think you're
going to have artificial coffee soon. It'll be terrible, you know,
a little worse than instant coffee, which is getting work,
which is pretty bad to start with. Uh. And you know,
(19:26):
if I'm drinking that, that's.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
What the that's what the astronauts drink.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Right. Well, I'm adding milk and sugar to that because
I can't help it. Right, But if I'm drinking my
stuff a really high quality elsewhere, I'm drinking it black.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
So so you you have look, look, you've been around
this your entire life. Okay, so you have developed a
palette almost similar to a genuine wine connoisseur.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Going in that direction. Yes, love rain coffee, like like
there's a rainbow of flavors that coffee by itself, with
no additives has and very few people know that.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Still, well, let's see we'll get people reacting on the
other side of the news. We've got a couple of
callers already. If you'd like to fill the lines up
six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty. Six one seven, nine,
three one ten thirty. We have spanned the globe on
this topic, and I'd love to get as many of
you involved now. Six one seven, two, five, four ten
thirty is filled. However, I got a couple of lines.
(20:28):
Here's here's an inside tip. Six one seven, nine three
one ten thirty. Your experience your relationship with coffee George
Howe of George George Howe Coffee four locations in Greater Boston.
We'll give you those locations also, uh during this next
half hour in case you are unfamiliar, and you'll be
(20:49):
able to stop in and avail yourself and test the
product that mister Howell has been involved in for really
the entirety of his life. We'll be back on side.
My name's Dan Ray. Let's have at it right after
the break.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZ,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
My guest is George Howl. George, if you're ready, we'll
get to some phone calls. Okay, ready, you got it all? Right?
Here we go. Let me go. First off to Murray
is calling in from Lexington, Massachusetts. Hey, Murray. Welcome to
night Side. Have you called us before? This is your
first time.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
This is the second time, Dan, but it's been a
lot of years since I spoke with you.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, we can give you a round of applause, but
we can say welcome back. It don't be a stranger.
Go right ahead. You're all with George.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
Hon Holy, such a pleasure, George, if I may call
you that. I remember when you we are in Lexington
and we you had your coffee connection in Lexington on
Massaff right in the center. I'm sure you remember that
very well.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I know you were.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
You were there with another enterprise following that. But anyhow,
I have to tell you Geor which the coffee actually
coffee connection has for me made a lot of connections.
I mean, we used to gather there. I think it
was somewhere around nineteen eighty five or eighty six when
(22:14):
the store opened. I can't remember exactly, but I had
heard nice things about you. You came in from was
it California, San Francisco when you moved to the Boston area. Yes,
that's true exact. We'll welcome to the area. It's a
beautiful area. As a San Francisco of course, But the
thing is that I developed so many friends because of
(22:36):
the Coffee Connection. I said, hey, guys, this has really
connected us. They've got the right name for the right
store and the coffee. Yes, the coffee was absolutely phenomenal.
It's where I really learned to enjoy coffee. When I
was doing my residency at BU. That's when I really
started liking coffee. Not for the flavor of it. It
(22:59):
tasted good, but it was coming out of a machine,
not nothing like Coffee Connection and some of the better
coffees we have. But I found that despite the fact
that it's got can and it might make some people
a little nervous, a little shaky, et cetera, I found
it totally relaxing. I could drink three or four cups
a day and sleep well at night. I just found
(23:22):
it just a relaxing drink. I hate to say it,
but it's almost like smoking a cigarette, except it's a
lot less, it's a lot Healthiergrett's.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
He's what you're saying right ahead.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
It's not what we know, Dan, And.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It's delicious, as you pointed out.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Absolutely delicious.
Speaker 6 (23:47):
It's an absolutely right and with my friends from Coffee Connection.
When you sold it out this tar Bucks. Another story
came in. I'm sure you've heard it Beats Coffee and
Teas from the Sean Francisco Bay Area, Berkeley. And so
I enjoyed the coffee here. But George, I have to
tell you something. There were a bunch of us that
(24:10):
tied it up with a coffee connection here. That is
thirty years no, forty years later, Yeah, nineteen eighty five
to now, and we're still talking about coffee connection and
how good the coffee was. Now, the coffee piece is
very good. I'm not saying it's not. It's very good,
but yours was our favorite.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And Murray, let me ask you. Have you, Murray, have
you tried Duncan.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Dan?
Speaker 6 (24:35):
If I need a quick breakfast and I have to
get to the office, I'm I'm retired now, and if
I didn't have time to go in, I would grab
a Duncan, but it will be would be mostly for
the bagel and the cream tea, and the bagel and
the cream tees or the bacon and the eggs.
Speaker 7 (24:53):
And I'm not supposed to all.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Right, a coffee connection is no longer in business. Be
concerned about, George Howle, coffee and we'll we'll talk about
that later.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
I want to go to George Howell Coffee, so I'm.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Gonna give you thirty second Murray. I'm gonna give you
the second time called the thirty seconds here because we've
we've spent three hours at three three fifty coffee connection.
So I've let you go a little bit. You can
wax poetic poetic for thirty more seconds. Go ahead, you're
on the clock.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Okay, No, I just want to continue doing it. I
want to hear the George Howell coffee houses are coffee connected,
the George Howell coffee outlets star because I'm gonna go, okay,
we will get those for you.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You beat the thirty second mark, Murray, come back soon, okay,
thanks right, good. Let me go to Alex and Millers.
Alex your next night's I go ahead, Alex.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Hey, good, good, good evening. I was gonna say, uh
for uh, you know, I've tried Starbucks coffee. I've tried
Dunkin Donuts, but I found the Starbucks is very bitter
or very uh you know. I really it's like burns.
And I do like international coffee, like either Greek or Turkish.
(26:04):
So my question is coffee is coffee, so it's all
in the way it's roasted, right, So.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
If you take it, it's a lot to do with it.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Right.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
So basically speaking, the same coffee bean that comes from
country on the Columbia wherever can taste five different ways. Correct, correct,
absolutely correct.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
You can destroy it in the roast, okay, you really can.
You know, we do some dark roast, not very but
my whole feeling is a lighter roast, not too light,
but a lighter roast gives you the flavors that are
in the bean, not the roastiness that's on the outside
(26:46):
that smothers the actual flavor within.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Right.
Speaker 8 (26:50):
Found I found that when you know, because I make
coffee at home and it's really pretty good. I use folders,
and I found I stuck with that brand. It seems
to be not too strong and not too weak. And
you know, if you if you put cream or milk,
it becomes you know, uh, you know, that much more appealing.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
All right, Alex, thank you for your experience. We appreciate
it very much. Talk so all right, good night, We're
going to take quick break here. More phone calls coming
up from my guest George Howell. I prefer your questions
of him. He's the expert. Six one seven, two four
ten thirty six one seven, nine ten thirty. So far
(27:33):
we've had Murray who wants to advertise Coffee Connection, which
is no longer in business. We will get the George
Howl coffee locations mentioned in the next break. Get your
pencils and papers and your GPS directions ready, uh, and
we'll we'll take some more phone calls. Go ahead, George.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
No, just to let you know, I don't know Dan
never spoke to him.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
The Murray you mean Murray Murray. I'm sorry, right, that's okay.
Mury Murray's remembers your product, which is great. I remember
restaurants which have long left Boston, and unfortunately, sometimes the
great restaurants are the ones that leave, and the ones
that stay are overpriced and not particularly good. So again,
I appreciate your time tonight and your expertise, and I
(28:20):
hope our audience might have questions that that would actually
plumb that expertise. We'll be back on Nightside right after
the break. The only lines open right now six one seven.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Night Side with Dan Ray. I's Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
From mister Hal George how we have full lines. We're
going to try to get to everybody here. Let's see
what we can do. John and Brookline. John, you are
next on Nightside. Go right ahead.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
Thanks for taking my call. Dan and your guests is
very interesting. I have a kind of a question that
maybe it doesn't make any sense. What happened to the
coffee that we could get You could actually smell the aroma.
I drink about four cups a day. I hit my
(29:08):
own bun machine, but there's no I at one time
I thought we could smell the coffee after it's pour
like a China.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, they used to say wake up and smell, wake
up and smell the coffee. What about that, George.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Well, percolators were famous for that. They put out the smell.
And then there was that's probably what it is. Dark
roast has clearly the smell of the roast, like burned toast.
Then there are some really amazing coffees, some new varieties
that are coming out, like Gisha that's very expensive. But
(29:47):
then there was a pink boord bon as it's called,
coming out of Columbia, which has a floral smell to
it and you could literally smell it. Geisha you can
smell from ten feet away, sometimes jasmine like notes. And
there are certain fruity coffees that you can smell as well,
(30:07):
and pure coffees. It depends on the strength and how
well it's brewed, but you do get the aroma. A
lot of coffees serve too thin and so you get nothing.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
Yeah, is it because of the real hot water or
that kills it though?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
So that yeah, you want to brew it around two
hundred and five somewhere in their degrees fahrenheit period anything low.
A lot of the automatics, well that's the thing. Actually
a lot of the automatics even today, the cheaper ones
are brewing at one five. You cannot that's too low.
You're not getting what you want out of the coffee.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Good information, George, for people, how can they tell you
that automatic? How can they tell what they what the
what the level of the heat is.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
If you need to ask, you know, and when you
go on the internet, typically they give you specs.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Check the specs, uh okay, And do those automatics lose
their effectiveness in terms of delivering the heat over time?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
They can?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
You really?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah? And so once again, if you really after the
quality Unfortunately, you have to make a one time expense,
you know, and it's going to be I don't know,
two hundred two three hundred dollars period, gotcha?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Okay, all right, hey John, thanks for the call and
get right lines, buddy, appreciate the call. Real good questions,
Thank you, perfect, talk to you soon. Let me go
next to Mark in Boston. Mark, you're on with George
Howell of George Howell Coffee.
Speaker 9 (31:38):
Go ahead, Mark, Well, good evening, And I'm sorry if
maybe this has already been asked, but let me just
preface my coffee connection story. I was friends with entertainers.
They work for Ringland Brothers Circus, and they traveled around
the United States. They couldn't wait to get the Boston
to go to coffee connection by Coffee who was the
(31:58):
best coffee in the United Stay.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, goodness, thank you.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
All right, that's my coffee connection story. All right, So
I missed the first part of the program, and I
might have already been said, but will you want to
non compete after you sold the company?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, briefly, but it didn't matter because I wasn't really
after opening any new stores. I really wanted to learn
a lot more about coffee by going to Origin and
that's what I really did for the next multiple years.
So yes, I had a noncompete, but it didn't get
in my way SRD.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Mark. I appreciate the calls and the questions. And by
the way, if you want to hear the first of
the hour all our programs posted at the podcast, all
I have to do is go to Nightside on Demand.
This hour will be posted sometime around two am tomorrow morning.
When you get up and you brewin the coffee, you
can just go to Nightside and Demand and check out
the nine o'clock hour from last night. Okay, I will.
Speaker 9 (32:53):
But I also asked you have plans to open more stores?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, we have four right.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Now, and we're gonna give those addresses market So get
your pencil and paper and we'll give you those addresses
as well. Okay them.
Speaker 9 (33:08):
I was just worrying about the future.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Well, we got to answer that question for you Mark today. Yeah,
we'll get you that information. I just got three other
folks who I'm trying to accommodate as well. Mark, Thank
you very thanks. All right, let's keep rolling here, Arthur
and Hollis. Then Arthur, you got to help me out
here because you're calling late, as a couple of other
people are as well.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Go right ahead, all right, Dan, first time call it.
Thank you very much, great show.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Well we'll give you right of the pass from my
versus of the studio audience. Go right ahead, Arthur.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Okay, mister Howell. It is great to hear that you've
got some stores that are opening up. I was involved
in a small coffee shop about ten years ago or so,
and I actually still have a bad your espresso.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So we're losing him here. Yeah, he's a caller from
Hollist and one of my favorite towns, so super. I
was just saying, Arthur, I love Holliston, used to live
close to Holliston. The super at the Fisks General Store.
And you've got a couple of great coffee got one
great coffee place by the train station in Holliston.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Yes, yes we do. Can you hear me now?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Yes? Gotta be quick though, because they got two.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
More real quick. I actually have a package of George
Powell espresso Sorrento beans.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Still all right, I hope.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
You're enjoyed here that you have that you do have
new stores opening up. And one quick question, what is
the best way for long term storage of.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Beans sealed and frozen frozen.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Okay, yes, great question, better answer. Thank you, Thank you, Arthur,
call again. Appreciate it. Thank you. Let's keep rolling. You're
gonna get two in. We're gonna try Michael and Boston. Michael,
go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Hi, thank you. I have passed Washington Street, George Howell
many times, and I have never gone in. I'm a
coffee drinker, and I will definitely go in tomorrow at
eleven o'clock. I'm very anxious to try your place, mister Hall.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I'm a nice coffee drinker. It would be a difference
in taste and flavor between your ice and your hot coffee.
Is there ever a difference?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, No, it's a whole other it's
a whole other ballgame. Look into getting yourself these these
setups that you can get. We will be selling them
as well. Where you can brew coffee and freeze it
immediately within a minute and a half. That's the best
kind of ice coffee you can get. And it's still
(35:44):
not that available commercially.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Will you be there to the store? I should try.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Our ice is as close as you can get to that. Now,
let me.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Ask you this, George, will you be at that store
tomorrow morning at eleven o'clock because.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
If Mike, if Michael uh calls follows my company and
acting uh and says he was on the radio, I
will find out next week sometime and I'll be there.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Oh, that's kind of you.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Sounds great.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Imagine there are many things to supplement the coffee in
the store, like, oh, certainly are and always getting better.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
All right, Michael, we got to save some time to
get it. These addresses on. Thanks Michael, Thank you very much,
Thank you. All right, thanks Michael. Here, George, we're are
the full locations real quickly if you can.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, the most recent one is the Lyric Building. That's
the two tower white tower over the Turnpike where mass
Ave meets Newberry Street.
Speaker 7 (36:46):
We're there.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
And then the main one as well is five oh
five Washington Street. It's adjoining the Godfrey Hotel. It's right
where Macy's is across the street. Uh. And then Boston
Public Market is the third.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
That's on the other side of downtown Boston. Uh. We're there.
And then the fourth one UH is oh god the
bookstore in Harvard Square loves Struck and they have a
cafe there our crew and they are serving our coffees
as well, so they're perfect.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
That's good. And you know what we got. We got
a few seconds left from Mannie. Let's get one more in.
Rob will push it a little bit. Manny in Boston. Manny,
you're next on night side. You got to be quick,
go ahead, Manny.
Speaker 10 (37:33):
Okay, Hi George, George. I love the coffee connection. I
miss it every day. You must have the best Sumatra.
You're going to have the same. I've tried many none.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Compared to yours Sumatra. They have changed the variety and
they have destroyed it. I mean I cannot find any
decent Sumatra for years now. I hate to tell you that,
because all right, we would love to grab it.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
We have to end that down note, unfortunately, Mannie, thank you,
thank you for the question.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Tomatra. I will have it all right.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Good luck with that, okay. In search of a great Samantra.
George Howell enjoyed it very much. Thank you so much
for joining us tonight, and I'd love to have you back, Okay.
Thanks George, best of luck with the new locations.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Thanks and thank everybody else.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
You're welcome. We came back on talk a little politics,
Molten versus Markey, or Markey versus Moulten, whichever you like.
We'll be talking about that on the other side of
the ten o'clock news here on night Side
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