January 2, 2025 • 43 mins
In the wake of the recent tragedy in New Orleans, where 14 people were killed by an extremist that authorities are reporting was tied to ISIS, it would appear Americans need to hear stories of heroism and courage more than ever. Former Assistant Secretary of State Robert Charles joined Dan to share historically significant true stories of American heroism from presidents, soldiers, astronauts, athletes, and a wide array of “everyday” citizens who have done extraordinary things!
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice siding Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, fourteen people, innocent people lost their lives to this
madman who decided it would be a great idea to
race down Bourbon Street in his truck in mow down
Americans who are simply trying to welcome in the new year.
So it's only appropriate that we try to take a
(00:30):
look at maybe the other side of the coin. And
delighted to welcome back to Night's side. Former Assistant Secretary
of State Robert Charles, who is the new Englander if
I recall correctly, Robert a native of the state of Maine. Correct,
How are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You are absolutely right, Dan, And we sometimes just need
good news. And I am awfully glad to be brought
on board to talk. And yes, I grew up in
a little town of about five hundred in central Maine,
and so of course I think we even talked about this.
I listened, of course every night under my pillow to
the transistor radio to the Red Sox, Enrico, the whole gang.
(01:15):
Who were you know, part of the Red Sox in
that era. But yeah, I grew up in Maine.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Who is your favorite Red Sox player back in the day.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh, I mean really, I mean Ustromsky, of course he
was my well look Enrico Petrocelli and Rice and there
were great players back then. And I you know, the
irony is, I think there's a little bit of enchantment
that gets lost when you can access everything anytime of day.
You know. I grew up in a family where with
(01:45):
sisters and brother and my mother was a school teacher
and she would put us to bed promptly at somewhere
around eight or nine, and I would pay no attention
to that and have a transistor radio listening to the
Red Sox play under my pillow, and it was I
don't know, there was something a little bit Norman rockwellish
about that ears.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh absolutely, it's it's romantic in the best sense of
the term, in that your remain and you got that
transistor radio in your ears, so you're transported through the
theater of the mind to Fenway Park or wherever the
Red Sox happened to be playing, Yankee Stadium, Commissie Park,
wherever in those days. And as long as you had that,
(02:25):
even though you were a few hundred miles away from
Fenway Park and a lot further away from you know,
the balt In those days it was Memorial Stadium, not
Camden Yards in Baltimore or where else. And you, nonetheless
were transported. And that's what we do here on night
side every night we try to do. But your life
(02:45):
took you, and I think it's important to set out
the world experience that you had. How did you find
your way into government service? And obviously as a former
assistant Secretary of State, that's pretty rarefied Aaron to function
and tell us, tell us a little bit about how
(03:06):
you got from a small town in Maine to the
cards a power in Washington, DC.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
You know, I will tell you this. I think that
God works in strange ways. And we grew up in
an era where it was just assumed that if you
worked hard and had some idea about what you might
want to do, that the clouds would occasionally part. And
what I learned, I mean, my father never finished college
and my mother was an elementary school teacher, started at
(03:34):
twelve thousand dollars a year and more or less raised
four kids on her own, and we ended up in
a situation where she prioritized education and she said, you know,
if you want to do anything other than stay here
in this town or nearby. You need to get an education.
And so sometime around the middle of my high school years,
(03:54):
I decided it was probably important to get a little
more serious. I was a runner and some other stuff,
but I I started to work hard. And you know,
I'm going to just tell you this as an inspiration
for anybody listening with kids, grandkids or themselves. You have
to first envision something that you would like to do.
It doesn't matter whether you're going to be an astronaut
or you're going to be a pole vaulter in the
(04:15):
Olympics something. And then you have to have in your
brain and in your heart the belief, the true belief
that no matter what anybody else says, you could actually
do that. And then you have to work your tail off.
And so, you know, sometimes luck comes, or you know,
the blessings happen when you work hard. So what happened
with me was I'd never had it. My father didn't
(04:39):
finish college, had no links to Dartmouth College at all,
but I had seen it once and I was just
intrigued by this college in New Hampshire and beautiful place.
And you know, I do remember there were people who
even sort of laughed that I would try to apply
to this, but I decided, what the heck, I'll just try,
and so I applied and I got in by some
(05:01):
strike of lightning. But ironically, and again this is this
whole idea of don't give up. They didn't give me
any money. I had no money, and they let me in,
but I had no money, and in that era, that
was the deal. So my mother, God bless her, and
we just lost her last timer, but she said, look,
take the family car and go over, and you're not
(05:21):
a bad debater. Explain to them that you're a good investment.
And so that's what I did. And they came through
with loans, which I paid back every penny and wouldn't
have done it any other way, and they came with
those scholarships. And so then what happens is once you
begin to realize you can turn the dial, you know,
like cranking on some bolt that has been rusted shut.
But then you get it to turn. Now you start
(05:43):
really trying to turn it. And so I applied for
a scholarship to Oxford and got it, and then to
Columbia Law School and got it, and then I wanted
to now for some people this will sound sort of hokey,
but there's things called clerkships. And I wanted to clerk
for a federal judge, a conservative because I am conservative
was back then, and I you know, I didn't know
(06:04):
I was until I realized everything I believed was what
people call conservative.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But I.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Applied to three hundred judges. I figured out read every
opinion that I could get recent opinion of those judges
and found the ones that were more to my way
of thinking, and applied to three hundred, got six interviews
out of three hundred, and got one offer. And I
therefore clerked on the US Court of Appeals Ninth Circuit,
(06:31):
which is the largest circuit and just below the Supprise Court,
and then.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Very liberal circuit, as you know.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Very liberal circuit. But I worked, and this shows you
what kind of challenges I faced. I worked for a
Reagan appointee who was a former US Marine, Robert Beezer,
so it was an amazing experience. And then I come
back and ended up with time again just knocking on
doors the way you would if you were a local
candidate for something, and I ended up working in the
(07:00):
Reagan White House and then staying close to the Reagans
until the end of both their lives, and worked in
the Bush forty one White House and ended up running
the largest part of the oversight committee for New Gingrich,
bouncing back and forth between being a private sector litigator,
which I hated. I basically was not motivated by money,
so it really didn't light my fire. And then eventually
(07:21):
I got a call one day from Colon Poland and
I actually, I actually said, are you sure you have
the right number? I mean, I had no link to
cold and Powell, but it you know Helen. Anyway, I
ended up talking with him and he said, no, You've
written a lot. You are the guy that I'd like
in this job. And so I ended up basically training
(07:43):
all the Iraqi police, Afghan police, spent a lot of
time I had spent time with law enforcement, and just
basically got to apply abroad in seventy countries. All this
learning that I had, and then as time passed, I
rolled out of that into starting a little company that
worked for five of the combatant commands and did some
(08:05):
things for the military and also for nonprofits. I was
really big on counter narcotics. I really believe kids. We
got to work with the kids. We were given incredible
benefits by the World War II and Korean War vets,
many of whom were in this book. But we owe
it to pass that baton forward. So I work with
nonprofits and everything was going around along pretty well. I
(08:27):
had joined the Navy as a reservist in intelligence because
I had some background in intelligence, and nine to eleven happened.
And the irony is that again, God puts you where
he wants you on any given day, and if I
wasn't sure of it before that day, I was sure
of it on that day. Because I was meant to
(08:48):
be in the Pentagon where the CNOIP wedge is, or
fifteen of us that looked after bad guys and four
hundred in the command center. That wedge was hit that
day and I wasn't there. Instead, I boarded a plane
forty five minutes before the plane that hit that Pentagon
and in DC and spent all of nine to eleven
(09:09):
in the air. So when I was done and realized
I'd lost a lot of my shipmates, I just volunteered
for active duty immediately, and then that gave me other
kinds of understanding, and eventually I ended up in the
position with Paul, and you know, life is a you
have to accept what comes to your door. And some
of it's bad and some of it's good. But the
(09:30):
thing you have to keep doing. In my opinion, and
I many of the people in this book, in fact,
all the people in this book said yes to responsibility.
And if we can just teach the lesson that when
something comes to you and you can either stand up,
take responsibility and do it, or you can look the
other way. Take the chance, take take the dare, take
the move, make it good, do something good with yourself,
(09:53):
and then something will follow, and something will follow, and
something will follow. So my journey out of the little
town and I came back and I lived in that
little town now. But that little journey was a lot
like Jimmy Stewart's journey. You know, I've been a very
blessed guy.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I actually rewatched The Wonderful
Life a couple of nights ago, and it is still
a great movie every time I watch it, and with
a great moral, you know moral at the at the
end that hey things, you know, what goes around comes around,
I guess would be one way to describe it. In
more more more recent parlance. I'm intrigued that you were
(10:29):
able to work in the Reagan White House at such
a young age. You were there really in you very
early twenties. How did how did that work come along?
How did that break come along?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So that particular break, and I'm going to get to
the break, but I want to tell you something about
Jimmy Stewart. He's in this book because if you do
a deep dive into his life, he's at the very
end of the book with some of the founders. You know,
that guy flew the missions of the kind that the
brother is recognized for in the movie. He had flown
those missions before that movie. Jimmy Stewart was a bona
(11:01):
fidees War hero before he ever played the guy that
stays at home. But my break came because again I'm
not the irony is I was at Dartmouth and I,
first of all, I was sure I was going to
fail out, but my mother had reassured me, don't worry,
you can always come home if you do. But then
I worked hard and didn't and a moment came towards
(11:22):
the very end where I could apply to work not
in a white house that wasn't available, but it was.
You know, everything is a step, step to step to step.
I was allowed. I Dartmouth had a program where you
could write your own program up, take some initiative, and
if they liked it, they had some corporate funders that
would fund it, so sort of anonymously. And so I
(11:44):
wanted to work in a piece of the US House
that was kind of a caucus or a committee that
was working on legal issues, because I thought in that
moment that I was going to become a lawyer. So
I just ended up with an internship, an unpaid everyday internship,
and I worked my butt off in that internship and
published a paper which then led somebody who knew that group.
(12:08):
When Reagan won in nineteen eighty, he got there just
like you're going to see all these offices populated by people.
They're populated by the president's choice, but the number two,
number three, number five in that line are not there.
And so what I did is I was given a
chance by a guy who Roger Porter, who later taught
(12:28):
at the Kennedy School. I never knew anything about Harvard,
never knew anything about this stuff, but he said, how
would you like to come? I don't have a deputy.
How would you just like to come and work. I
saw the work you did for this little caucus, so
I said, yeah, of course I'll come and work. Of course.
And I dropped everything and came and work.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So yeah, I know one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Lead Roger Porter is, yeah, that's what a break? Well
what Robin? I got to take a quick break. My
guest is Robert Charles. He's a former Assistant Secretary of
State for International Narcotics and Laurence Forcement Affairs. He worked
under the George W. Bush Bush as I call it
Bush forty three administration in that capacity. He's had a
(13:10):
fascinating career, uh and has written a book called Cherish America,
which I want to dive into, and I'm hoping that
some of you might want to. No one probably has
had an opportunity to read the book yet. I don't
expect you to do a book report. However, maybe some
of you, once we get going here, might be able
to recommend some other Americans that if Robert were to
(13:33):
do a sequel book that he might include. So we'll
have some fun with this, I promise. If you'd like
to talk with Robert Charles six one seven, two, four, six, one, seven, nine,
ten thirty. Those are the two best numbers to reach
us at. My name is Dan Ray. This is night Side,
and we're talking to a person who has been blessed
uh in his life. Uh, and he is now blessing
(13:55):
others uh. And a book is entitled Cherish America. And
if anyone tonight who live here a dozen Cherish America,
well your head is not screwed on straight, particularly after
what transpired on Bourbon Street in New Orleans just about
twenty eight hours ago. Now we're coming back on night Side.
We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World,
Nice Sight Studios. I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
With me is Robert Charles. His book is entitled Cherish America.
And I want to get right into the book. The
book came out in October. If I'm not mistaken, Am
I right or wrong on that?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Robert, Yes, sir, yep, it was released again. Yep.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So this is a new book that is out there.
Give us just a little bit of the cast of
characters who we would get some insight in if we
were to take the opportunity to read the book. At
his entirety and then I'd like to just get to
some of the stories that are in the book. Obviously
(14:57):
we can't tell them all. But who gets this profile here?
Who are you talking about in this book?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Absolutely Dan. So let me start by saying I never
intended to write this book the way it ended up
getting written. It was six years in the process, hundreds
of hours of interviews, and notably it's called Cherish America Stories.
The subtitle is Stories of courage, Character and Kindness. And
what I sort of stumbled upon as I sat down,
(15:26):
thinking I needed to write a few of these stories
down is I began to realize that in many ways,
and maybe all of our lives are like this, we
just don't know it. But there's a Forrest Gump element
to my life story, which is that I have crossed
paths with people who did truly extraordinary things, and they
were pieces of my life. And I didn't know that
(15:47):
they had done some of these things until later on,
and I began to pull on threads. So the book
actually is divided into four sections, and the first one
has about twenty two stories, including everybody, and this section
is called Courageous Souls, and it is gripping sort of
Agatha Christie's style, stories about and they're all true about
(16:08):
law enforcement officers who did something extraordinary, pilots, military pilots
who did something extraordinary, teachers or nurses, infantry officers, and
those that you wouldn't expect, people who have disabilities, and
other things that just make your jaw drop when you
see what they've done with who they are just at
(16:29):
the lead in. So then the second section is places
in Time. The cast of characters in that first section,
I'll tell you some of the stories and you know
in short and they'll stop you in their tracks because
they did me. And then places in time, including places
like Arlington, where I have a lot of relatives buried,
and an extraordinary day there that ended with a shaft
(16:50):
of light on a stone which just blew me away,
and I've got photographs in the book. And then getting
out of communists Poland when I got myself in trouble
there walking alone on the beaches of Normandy, and the
sort of granular feeling the living of the moment of
being there. I think people come away feeling it a
(17:11):
lot more strongly when they read that story. And then
some other tougher ones I privately in my twenties walked
through Auschwitz and had notes about all of that. And
then gradually the third piece is Glimpses of History, which
are private stories that have never been told, but include
very personal stories having worked a couple of years with
Colin Powell about what kind of a leader he really was,
(17:35):
what kind of a person inside out, and they're they're
pretty compelling stories. People have never heard them, and there
I think you come away with a much higher level
of understanding and respect for who he was, even if
you went in with a high understanding. And then Ronald Reagan,
who I had the privilege of staying up with after
the White House and tell some stories about both he
and his wife, who I Nancy Reagan, who came and
(17:57):
helped me in Washington on counter narcotics shoes with some testimony.
And then the Bushes and a couple of sort of
serendipitous events. One is that Roger Porter actually and I
were at an event with Gorbachev at one point and
it was a multi day event, and at one point
in that event, I asked Gorbachev whether he believed in God,
(18:20):
and his answer was fascinating. And then my other part
of my life which is an odd ball. But turn
of again serendipity is I did oversight of NASA for
a number of years when I was with Congress, and
in that process, over time back in the nineties, got
to know very well Walt Cunningham who was Apollo seven,
(18:41):
Gene Cernon who was seventeen, and Buzz Aldrin, who I
have ended up working three or four times a week
with for the last twenty five years. And so there
are stories, you know, the Buzz stories are ones which
will just grab you because maybe six years ago, five
years ago, I said, Buzz, we talk all the time,
(19:02):
and you're telling me things. I've read all your books,
and I've seen the clips, and I've read the transcripts,
and you're telling me things that are not in any
of those books. And I think you ought to write
another book. And he said, I don't, you know, I'm
in my nineties. I'm not interested in writing another book.
And so I said, well, here's what we're going to do. Then,
I'm going to turn on the tape recorder and eventually
(19:22):
we're going to pull some of these stories together. How
they got off the moon is absolutely gripping, and most
people have no idea that they almost did not get
off the moon. They had other near death experiences in
things like Gemini twelve and some of the other Gemini missions.
So his stories are just absolutely riveting. And eventually I
didn't originally think of it, but when it was all
(19:43):
said and done and he'd read the manuscript, he offered
to write the forward for this book. So his forward
in this book again words You're not going to see
anywhere else. He has a very clear understanding of what
makes America great, and he really portrayed it. And then
the last section includes deep dives into it's called where
They Stood, some deep dives after reading hundreds of letters
(20:06):
of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and Ben Franklin and
some other more modern heroes like Jimmy Stewart. Deep dives
into some things that you don't know about people that
you think you know. So I will tell you that
the bulk of the story of the book is these
gripping stories about people who in a moment, and literally
(20:27):
it's fifty six stories, but in a moment needed to
show courage, very often real courage, and didn't know if
they had the power to do it, but leaned in
and did it. And some of these are things that
lasted a lifetime. Some of them happened in a thirty
second block. I mean, the first story in the book
is a guy, a law enforcement officer who later worked
(20:48):
for me, who he worked the night shift when he
was young and in the Charlotte area, and he was
coming home one morning early and saw smoke curling out
of trailer. And the bottom line on that story is
he just did some extraordinary things and ended up saving
two little children's lives. And so unique was his selflessness.
(21:10):
And I think of it that way that everybody else
in this book, from you know, from the law enforcement
officers to the military personnel, to Scott Hamilton, who was
the Olympic skater that I've known, and what motivated them.
Their names are in this book, the last names. Rick
didn't want his last name in the book. His story
is so gripping. And then several teachers, I mean, just one,
(21:34):
two and three. One is a story about my history
teacher in high school. And again it seems odd that
one life could touch so many, but all of our
lives are touched by and touch so many. This guy
was an infantry officer one hundred and first airborne in Vietnam.
His stories there are gripping. But when he came back,
there was no Internet, and he realized that all these guys,
(21:57):
thousands of them, had no way to compare. Their story
is to relate to each other, to get together, and
so he started kind of a newsletter. And you know,
I asked him at one point, tell me some of
the things that happened as a result of that. And again,
I've known him for decades. So he started to roll
him out and showed me documents, and you know, one
(22:17):
of the most moving stories is one day he got
a call from a guy who said, I'm looking for
a guy named Jack. And my teacher, David Cook, said
Jack who, he said, I don't know, just Jack. But
here's the story. In the middle of a firefight, a
guy is wandering across the open running actually across an
(22:41):
open plane under fire, and stumbles on a medic who's
working on four guys. He's actually working on three. The
fourth one he's let go. And so this guy recognized
the fourth one and said, why aren't you working on
this guy? He said, he's white, he's bled out, there's
nothing left. He said, well, and he recognized him. They've
been drinking beers a couple of weeks earlier in a
(23:01):
local place, which is described in the book, and he said, well,
what if I could He said, you won't find any veins?
He said, what if I could find a vein? He said,
you find a vein, I'll put plasma in there. Well,
this guy hunts and finally finds a vein in the ankle,
brings the guy. They bring him around forty years later.
The guy who called looking for Jack is the guy
who was saved, who was looking for the guy who
(23:23):
saved him, and my teacher Dave put the two of
them together, so really powerful stuff. Another my eighth grade
math teacher was lit guy.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let me pause you there for second, Robert, only because
we got to take a news break at the bottom
of the hour. We come back, we'll talk more about
those stories. I want to know what Govi Schev had
to say about God, and I want to share a
couple of stories with you as well. My guest is
Robert Charles, a former Assistant Secretary of State, has written
a book called Cherish America. I would say Cherish America
(23:53):
also cherish Americans, because we're very lucky to have been
placed here, very lucky to have found this place if
we hadn't been placed here. And it is amazing how
many people do not appreciate the fact that they live
in the most powerful country in the world, but also
I think the most compassionate. That's part of the theme
(24:14):
I want to hit on the other side of the
news break, my guess, Robert Charles, feel free to join
the conversation if you'd like. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty
Back on night Side right after.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
This, You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
With me is Robert Charles, a native of Maine, lives
up in Maine, has served this country in a number
of capacities, including that as an assistant Secretary of State.
You mentioned meeting Gorbachev and you asked him what he
thought about God. I'd love to know what he said. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, So this is an interesting story because the second
half of this book is people that you know the
names of but you don't know the behind the scenes stories,
and the my first half is unsung heroes. So on Gorbachev,
it was actually a remarkable moment because I don't even
really know why I asked him, other than I had
always wondered if Reagan and I do have private stories
(25:14):
about Reagan in the book, if Reagan had in some
ways felt or sensed something about Gorbachev that allowed him
to kind of open a shaft of light into the man.
And eventually, I mean Gorbachev's stays very standoffish in the
first years and eventually becomes almost an adoring I mean,
he almost adores Reagan. And so the answer to the
(25:38):
question really has two bullet points. The first is that,
when asked directly, he sort of circularly but nevertheless, very
revealingly said that he grew up in a home in
which his grandmother and his grandfather were really decisive influences,
and that his grand father was as a Communist and
(26:01):
his grandmother was a devout Orthodox Christian, and these were
the two big influences on his life. In fact, so
powerful were they that his grandfather kept a picture of
Lenin on the mantlepiece, and on the mantlepiece beside that
was an icon of Christ. And so I plumbed it
a little further, and I will just tell you again,
(26:23):
sometimes you get an exclamation point when you were only
looking for a period. The exact things he said are
very revealing and suggests to me that this man there
was more to him than most people understood, but Reagan
understood it. But the two things that really come the
data points that I want to mention, are that he
(26:43):
actually referred, if you go back to transcripts privately, a
couple of times about the intercession of God in the
peace process that eventually brought the Soviet Union down. And
the other thing is years afterwards, when Reagan died, I
had worked for or Gingrich and I was invited to
come kind of go down a little staircase when they
(27:05):
first had Reagan lying in state and come down and
they stop me at the bottom of the little marble staircase.
It comes from the Speaker's office down to where a
body would lie in state in the Capitol, and they
stopped me, and the capitol police just stopped me, and
I was just by myself, and this little man came
in and walked over and bowed his head at the
(27:27):
casket for I don't know a minute, two minutes maybe three,
and then retreated privately, no press, nothing, And that little
man was Gorbachev. So it's fascinating. That is one story,
and that's the course on the more. You know, I
could tell you private stories about Colin Powell and his
personal attention to people, Reagan's personal attention to people. But
(27:51):
I actually think the more many of the more compelling
stories are on the front end with I was going
to mention my eighth grade math teacher was the first
guy to ever give an orger and to someone, and
he gave it to his brother. Never happened before. The
two boys were both Korean War vets. They only had
each other. Parents were gone, and Ron decided to give
his see if they'd never done it before. They said
(28:12):
it couldn't be done. And then they called him back
and said, actually, your brother's an identical twin. Maybe if
it would ever work, it would work then. And that
story is just gripping. And then another friend of mine
is one of the F sixteen pilots. There were only
two armed F sixteens on nine to eleven, and Jeff
Cashman was one of the two. He and his wingman.
All the pictures you see of New York are taken
(28:34):
by Jeff and his wingman. The two burning towers, And
I asked Jeff, you know, i'd known him for decades.
Twenty years later, after nine to eleven, I asked him,
how do you feel about all this? How do you
feel about what happened and what he didn't get there
in time? But you know, his answers are gripping, They're
really something you'd be amazed at. And then there are
several genuine rescues, military rescues.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
One of my close friends was Cashman based on kit Cot.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Nope, he was based out of Vermont. The squadron got there,
it was fully armed out of Vermont. They did have
other planes that got up out of Andrews, but they
were unarmed. There were only two armed planes. And that's
because when the first tower was hit, Jeff, we didn't
have cell phones and that kind of stuff back then,
and his wife called him and said they hit one
of the towers, and he thought that was odd. He said,
(29:22):
that's not going to be a mistake. And so he
got two F sixteen's fully armed, so that when National
Command authorities actually called him and said can you get
two planes in the air, how long will it take you?
He said thirty seconds, actually said ninety seconds. They said no, no,
fully armed missiles everything he said, I were fully armed,
and so they got up and gave chase. And it's
(29:44):
a fascinating story. A couple of these are gripping in
the sense that Coastguard is involved, a one hundred first
Airborne are involved. A good friend of mine is a
black Hawk pilot who had forty one saves to his
unit's name, and one of those missions and just absolutely
will make you cry. It's unbelievable the risks they took
(30:04):
to get in and save this special operator, and they
saved them, but they you know, they almost they almost
went down together with a revealing tanker. Anyway, just amazing stories,
and that's why I think this book. Honestly, from the
age of twelve to one hundred and twelve, these are
the kinds of stories you want to read. They remind
you that not only are their heroes at your elbow
(30:25):
when you're grocery shopping or on the street, and they
don't talk about it, but there is a hero in you.
And when you read these stories, one of the things
that happens with me. And I've gone back through the
interviews and I read them again and tear up and
think to myself, Okay, I just want to fortify myself
if I was ever in a situation like this, would
I do what they did? You know? Would I rush
(30:46):
in and save those two kids? Would I? You know,
I would I put pedal to the metal with odds
of you know, one hundred to one that I'm not
going to get there and some of these and would
I do it? And that's that's one of the beauties
of this book is it highlights this can do American spirit.
F fifteen pilots, guys that were in Vietnam, guys that
were more recently in combat, and then people who are
(31:09):
doing things in the civilian world. A twenty two year
old nurse and how she managed an unbelievable pile of
responsibility during COVID and what did she do and how
did she do it and how did she feel afterwards?
Really gripping stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
The book is entitled Cherish America. And by the way,
you mentioned being inside of communist Poland. I had that
experience as well as a television reporter in nineteen eighty six,
and it really opened my eyes. Jerozelski was still in
power and we were over there for ten days, and
(31:44):
I could write a book about that also a few
year or so later, I was had at the opportunity
while while I was in Poland, I should say, to
visit Auschwitz, and that was a very important experience in
my life. When we get back, I want to tell
you about an American hero that I think you know about,
(32:06):
but the most courageous individual that I've ever met. And
I'd love to get your reaction to who I think
is in that category. We as we've met many of
the same people believe it or yeah, and I can
identify with you. But I invite our callers to join
(32:29):
the conversation if they want to ask a question of
Robert Charles, or if they want to talk about someone
who they consider to be an American hero. Again, the
book is Cherish America, and I just think that at
this time, all of us in this country who are
blessed enough to be here, need to understand that we
need to cherish this country, because if we do not
(32:50):
cherish this country, there are forces about not only around
the world but in our own country who would like
to bring this country down. And that's why I think
this interview was particularly well timed. It was timed in
advance of what happened in New Orleans on January the
morning of January first. My name is Dan Ray. This
is Nightside. If you'd like to join the conversation, feel free,
(33:11):
don't be intimidated. Six one seven thirty six one seven
nine three one ten thirty Coming back after this one Nightside.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Now back to Dan Ray, Mine from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ, the news Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
My guess is Robert Charles, whose book is Cherished America.
I don't know if you if you remember because you
were younger, but the most courageous guy that I've ever met,
and I've met a lot of courageous people, Robert is
a guy named Lloyd Pete Booker. He was the commander
of the USS Pueblo, which was it's the only American
rule from held in captivity of another country. It's being
(33:48):
held at peter Pang, North Korea. He had a crew
of eighty three men which they were basically pulled off
the high seas off the coast of Korea, North Korea,
and they suffered eleven months of horrific captivity from January
twenty third, nineteen sixty eight to December twenty third, nineteen
(34:08):
sixty eight. And Booker brought all of his crew through
that and the night that he was forced to write
a quote unquote confession, you know, in against the terms
of the uniform.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Do you the convention? Yeah? Well no, yes, yes, military, yes, right,
and you.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Know which is anything beyond name, rank and serial number.
And they promised them that they would start killing his
youngest member of his crew the next morning if he
did not write a letter of confession. So he's an
interesting guy. He's he's passed now, but I became one
of my closest friends in the world. He was an
(34:54):
orphan from from Idaho, grew up in Father flanagainst Boystown,
went to University of Nebraska. It was a mustang, meaning
when you become the community US Naval vessel, your mustang
unless you went to Annapolis. He did not go to Annapolis.
So he was small enough to know that the North
Koreans in nineteen sixty eight, this is now, you know,
many many years ago, over fifty years ago, were blind
(35:19):
to the outside world. And he remembered the word peon,
which is an ode of praise p A e a n.
And he wrote a confession essentially in which he said
it would be his greatest honor to Peon. Kimmel's sung
basically turned the noun into a verb, and yeah, it
(35:43):
was just amazing. And of course the North Koreans released
that they looked at their Korean American dictionary and thought
that they didn't understand that that it was a noun
and not a verb. He used it as a verb. Anyway,
I got to know him, one of the most courageous
people I've ever known in my life. They attempted a
(36:04):
court martial and when he came back and John Chaffey,
who was the detective of navy, said no, that's not
going to happen. And he actually led the d mining
of Hyphong Harbor in nineteen seventy five. And I remember
talking with the time and I said, I hope you're
going to leave a few live ones there. Pete's named
(36:24):
Pete Poker, and he said, you can count on that,
you know.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Man. One of the things you're pointing out, which I
think your listeners will appreciate because they know it, is
that we are the last generation to know some of
those great brave men in person from World War Two
in Korea and many many people have family members, the parents, grandparents,
and I think one of the points of this book
(36:50):
was not even to be individual these are truly gripping
individual stories, but to remind people of their own memories
of people that sacrifice for us and that they admire.
And yes, there are World War Two vets in this store,
in this book, and there's some really remarkable people. But
I will tell you that more often than not, people
(37:11):
read these stories and then come back to me with
members of their own families, and many of them have
done absolutely spectacular things that were for America, and they
are not written down anywhere. And you know, you know,
that's one of the reasons you've got to get a
book like Cherish America to remind you that these people exist.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Well, you know Booker's experience. He was not a Korean
War veteran, because of course, the armist that's been signed
in the early well in the mid fifties, and the
Pueblo was not captured until the actually was in nineteen
sixty eight. January sixty eight, at the height of the
Vietnam War. Let me get some phone calls in here
real quickly if we can. I'm going to move everybody
(37:52):
quickly here. Let me go to Kristin in Wakefield. Kristin
first with Robert Charles, go right ahead, Kristin.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
Thank you, mister Childs, mister Ray. I'm so happy to
hear that you are speaking of this book Terurish America.
I had actually asked for this book at the library
and I've made a few attempts and unfortunately the librarians
have not been able to locate a book in circulation.
(38:20):
And I think it's important for everyone to read and
I would love to read it.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Well, you can get it on Amazon, but I'm with you,
it should it's beginning to roll out. Dan, That's that's
what I'll say.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
And Kristin, Yeah, okay, Kristiny, that book is available. And
as a citizen of Wakefield, as I'm sure you know,
at a public library, you have a right to go
in and request the book, and I have, I.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Will and I'll try again. And I'm very happy to
hear that you're showcasing this book, and I hope others
will pursue it as well.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Well. Absolutely, Thanks very much, Christina. That's a great suggestion.
I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Happy New Year. Nancy and Rosslyndale. Nancy next, on Nightside
with my guest Robert Charles. Go right ahead, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Hi, Hello, Nancy, Yeah, Hi Charles. You know what I
want to tell you that I listened to this program
all the time, and I haven't listened to it in
a little while.
Speaker 7 (39:21):
I am so.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
Inspired by what you have said in your memories of
these things and that you have documented them.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
Since I've been listening to this.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Program tonight, I have ordered the book on Nightline, I
mean Amazon, and I just I admire the fact that
you are not only looking at what people do in
the military, but what people do in everyday life. You
know what you're earlier, what you said earlier about would
(39:57):
I do that or wouldn't I do that?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (40:01):
You know.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
Often, you know, like my dad was the captain of
the marine and and my uncle Paul was in Vietnam
and I didn't even know he was in Vietnam because
he never talked upon her until my cousin died. You know.
Speaker 6 (40:21):
But you know, I I.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
I like to think that I would run into the fire.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
You know.
Speaker 6 (40:31):
What, what what what I've heard tonight? God bless you.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Nancy. Yeah, Nancy, I just want to thank you because
the spirit that you're talking about we have heroes in
our lives, and very often we don't know it. Uh,
they don't you know these stories? A lot of these
people would never have told these stories unless they were
encouraged to tell them. And I will just tell you
we one of the reasons I wrote these down. And
(40:56):
perhaps your uncle and your and your father will kind
of this comes to mind with them. There was a
book my kids read growing up in high school, I
think called What Is History? The only thing I remember
reading it along with them was that if you took
all the books in all the libraries in all the
world and you put them all together in one pile,
they represent less than one half of a percent of
(41:19):
what actually happened. And so in the end, if you
don't write it down, if we don't remember that these
heroes exist in our past, we'll forget them.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
Yeah, Nancia, I hate to do this year.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
I want to get one more call.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Can I say one more thing, Nancy?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I want to get one other call in. Would you
be kind enough to give one other person to say something? Okay,
thank you, Nancy? If we go to Joe and Lynn, Joe,
I only got about twenty seconds, thirty seconds for you.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
What can you do with a happy New year? Mister Charles,
I'd like to ask use your book in audible audio
for the blind, that I'm not as happy with America
as you are, because I'm visually impairing that a lot
of problems. I'd love to read your book as it
on our boy. If not, please, the answer is, I'm.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Going to work to get it on and I will try,
and I it's in the plan. I will tell you
there are stories about disabled Americans in this book, and
it will make you cry to see how courageous, how
courageous we are as a people.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Well, the reason I mentioned it because some of us
have fallen through the cracks. Thank you and take care.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Thanks Robert Charles enjoyed it a lot. Cherish America. Uh,
I'm going to give people an opportunity the next hour
maybe to talk a little bit. I hope you'll be
able to listen up in Maine about what they cherish
will America. I want to. I want to carry a
love the theme on for the rest of the evening. Robert,
(42:42):
thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
So much, so much, look forward to me and God
bless you. Okay, bye bye now back catch you by back.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Catch Okay, here comes the eleven o'clock news. I'm going
to ask you to plumb your mind right now and
particularly a view of what happened in New Orleans earlier
this week. What is it about America that you cherish?
That's my question. I suspect my audience will rise to
the challenge. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
(43:10):
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty back on
nights Side right after this
It's nice siding Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, fourteen people, innocent people lost their lives to this
madman who decided it would be a great idea to
race down Bourbon Street in his truck in mow down
Americans who are simply trying to welcome in the new year.
So it's only appropriate that we try to take a
(00:30):
look at maybe the other side of the coin. And
delighted to welcome back to Night's side. Former Assistant Secretary
of State Robert Charles, who is the new Englander if
I recall correctly, Robert a native of the state of Maine. Correct,
How are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You are absolutely right, Dan, And we sometimes just need
good news. And I am awfully glad to be brought
on board to talk. And yes, I grew up in
a little town of about five hundred in central Maine,
and so of course I think we even talked about this.
I listened, of course every night under my pillow to
the transistor radio to the Red Sox, Enrico, the whole gang.
(01:15):
Who were you know, part of the Red Sox in
that era. But yeah, I grew up in Maine.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Who is your favorite Red Sox player back in the day.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh, I mean really, I mean Ustromsky, of course he
was my well look Enrico Petrocelli and Rice and there
were great players back then. And I you know, the
irony is, I think there's a little bit of enchantment
that gets lost when you can access everything anytime of day.
You know. I grew up in a family where with
(01:45):
sisters and brother and my mother was a school teacher
and she would put us to bed promptly at somewhere
around eight or nine, and I would pay no attention
to that and have a transistor radio listening to the
Red Sox play under my pillow, and it was I
don't know, there was something a little bit Norman rockwellish
about that ears.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh absolutely, it's it's romantic in the best sense of
the term, in that your remain and you got that
transistor radio in your ears, so you're transported through the
theater of the mind to Fenway Park or wherever the
Red Sox happened to be playing, Yankee Stadium, Commissie Park,
wherever in those days. And as long as you had that,
(02:25):
even though you were a few hundred miles away from
Fenway Park and a lot further away from you know,
the balt In those days it was Memorial Stadium, not
Camden Yards in Baltimore or where else. And you, nonetheless
were transported. And that's what we do here on night
side every night we try to do. But your life
(02:45):
took you, and I think it's important to set out
the world experience that you had. How did you find
your way into government service? And obviously as a former
assistant Secretary of State, that's pretty rarefied Aaron to function
and tell us, tell us a little bit about how
(03:06):
you got from a small town in Maine to the
cards a power in Washington, DC.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
You know, I will tell you this. I think that
God works in strange ways. And we grew up in
an era where it was just assumed that if you
worked hard and had some idea about what you might
want to do, that the clouds would occasionally part. And
what I learned, I mean, my father never finished college
and my mother was an elementary school teacher, started at
(03:34):
twelve thousand dollars a year and more or less raised
four kids on her own, and we ended up in
a situation where she prioritized education and she said, you know,
if you want to do anything other than stay here
in this town or nearby. You need to get an education.
And so sometime around the middle of my high school years,
(03:54):
I decided it was probably important to get a little
more serious. I was a runner and some other stuff,
but I I started to work hard. And you know,
I'm going to just tell you this as an inspiration
for anybody listening with kids, grandkids or themselves. You have
to first envision something that you would like to do.
It doesn't matter whether you're going to be an astronaut
or you're going to be a pole vaulter in the
(04:15):
Olympics something. And then you have to have in your
brain and in your heart the belief, the true belief
that no matter what anybody else says, you could actually
do that. And then you have to work your tail off.
And so, you know, sometimes luck comes, or you know,
the blessings happen when you work hard. So what happened
with me was I'd never had it. My father didn't
(04:39):
finish college, had no links to Dartmouth College at all,
but I had seen it once and I was just
intrigued by this college in New Hampshire and beautiful place.
And you know, I do remember there were people who
even sort of laughed that I would try to apply
to this, but I decided, what the heck, I'll just try,
and so I applied and I got in by some
(05:01):
strike of lightning. But ironically, and again this is this
whole idea of don't give up. They didn't give me
any money. I had no money, and they let me in,
but I had no money, and in that era, that
was the deal. So my mother, God bless her, and
we just lost her last timer, but she said, look,
take the family car and go over, and you're not
(05:21):
a bad debater. Explain to them that you're a good investment.
And so that's what I did. And they came through
with loans, which I paid back every penny and wouldn't
have done it any other way, and they came with
those scholarships. And so then what happens is once you
begin to realize you can turn the dial, you know,
like cranking on some bolt that has been rusted shut.
But then you get it to turn. Now you start
(05:43):
really trying to turn it. And so I applied for
a scholarship to Oxford and got it, and then to
Columbia Law School and got it, and then I wanted
to now for some people this will sound sort of hokey,
but there's things called clerkships. And I wanted to clerk
for a federal judge, a conservative because I am conservative
was back then, and I you know, I didn't know
(06:04):
I was until I realized everything I believed was what
people call conservative.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
But I.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Applied to three hundred judges. I figured out read every
opinion that I could get recent opinion of those judges
and found the ones that were more to my way
of thinking, and applied to three hundred, got six interviews
out of three hundred, and got one offer. And I
therefore clerked on the US Court of Appeals Ninth Circuit,
(06:31):
which is the largest circuit and just below the Supprise Court,
and then.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Very liberal circuit, as you know.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Very liberal circuit. But I worked, and this shows you
what kind of challenges I faced. I worked for a
Reagan appointee who was a former US Marine, Robert Beezer,
so it was an amazing experience. And then I come
back and ended up with time again just knocking on
doors the way you would if you were a local
candidate for something, and I ended up working in the
(07:00):
Reagan White House and then staying close to the Reagans
until the end of both their lives, and worked in
the Bush forty one White House and ended up running
the largest part of the oversight committee for New Gingrich,
bouncing back and forth between being a private sector litigator,
which I hated. I basically was not motivated by money,
so it really didn't light my fire. And then eventually
(07:21):
I got a call one day from Colon Poland and
I actually, I actually said, are you sure you have
the right number? I mean, I had no link to
cold and Powell, but it you know Helen. Anyway, I
ended up talking with him and he said, no, You've
written a lot. You are the guy that I'd like
in this job. And so I ended up basically training
(07:43):
all the Iraqi police, Afghan police, spent a lot of
time I had spent time with law enforcement, and just
basically got to apply abroad in seventy countries. All this
learning that I had, and then as time passed, I
rolled out of that into starting a little company that
worked for five of the combatant commands and did some
(08:05):
things for the military and also for nonprofits. I was
really big on counter narcotics. I really believe kids. We
got to work with the kids. We were given incredible
benefits by the World War II and Korean War vets,
many of whom were in this book. But we owe
it to pass that baton forward. So I work with
nonprofits and everything was going around along pretty well. I
(08:27):
had joined the Navy as a reservist in intelligence because
I had some background in intelligence, and nine to eleven happened.
And the irony is that again, God puts you where
he wants you on any given day, and if I
wasn't sure of it before that day, I was sure
of it on that day. Because I was meant to
(08:48):
be in the Pentagon where the CNOIP wedge is, or
fifteen of us that looked after bad guys and four
hundred in the command center. That wedge was hit that
day and I wasn't there. Instead, I boarded a plane
forty five minutes before the plane that hit that Pentagon
and in DC and spent all of nine to eleven
(09:09):
in the air. So when I was done and realized
I'd lost a lot of my shipmates, I just volunteered
for active duty immediately, and then that gave me other
kinds of understanding, and eventually I ended up in the
position with Paul, and you know, life is a you
have to accept what comes to your door. And some
of it's bad and some of it's good. But the
(09:30):
thing you have to keep doing. In my opinion, and
I many of the people in this book, in fact,
all the people in this book said yes to responsibility.
And if we can just teach the lesson that when
something comes to you and you can either stand up,
take responsibility and do it, or you can look the
other way. Take the chance, take take the dare, take
the move, make it good, do something good with yourself,
(09:53):
and then something will follow, and something will follow, and
something will follow. So my journey out of the little
town and I came back and I lived in that
little town now. But that little journey was a lot
like Jimmy Stewart's journey. You know, I've been a very
blessed guy.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I actually rewatched The Wonderful
Life a couple of nights ago, and it is still
a great movie every time I watch it, and with
a great moral, you know moral at the at the
end that hey things, you know, what goes around comes around,
I guess would be one way to describe it. In
more more more recent parlance. I'm intrigued that you were
(10:29):
able to work in the Reagan White House at such
a young age. You were there really in you very
early twenties. How did how did that work come along?
How did that break come along?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So that particular break, and I'm going to get to
the break, but I want to tell you something about
Jimmy Stewart. He's in this book because if you do
a deep dive into his life, he's at the very
end of the book with some of the founders. You know,
that guy flew the missions of the kind that the
brother is recognized for in the movie. He had flown
those missions before that movie. Jimmy Stewart was a bona
(11:01):
fidees War hero before he ever played the guy that
stays at home. But my break came because again I'm
not the irony is I was at Dartmouth and I,
first of all, I was sure I was going to
fail out, but my mother had reassured me, don't worry,
you can always come home if you do. But then
I worked hard and didn't and a moment came towards
(11:22):
the very end where I could apply to work not
in a white house that wasn't available, but it was.
You know, everything is a step, step to step to step.
I was allowed. I Dartmouth had a program where you
could write your own program up, take some initiative, and
if they liked it, they had some corporate funders that
would fund it, so sort of anonymously. And so I
(11:44):
wanted to work in a piece of the US House
that was kind of a caucus or a committee that
was working on legal issues, because I thought in that
moment that I was going to become a lawyer. So
I just ended up with an internship, an unpaid everyday internship,
and I worked my butt off in that internship and
published a paper which then led somebody who knew that group.
(12:08):
When Reagan won in nineteen eighty, he got there just
like you're going to see all these offices populated by people.
They're populated by the president's choice, but the number two,
number three, number five in that line are not there.
And so what I did is I was given a
chance by a guy who Roger Porter, who later taught
(12:28):
at the Kennedy School. I never knew anything about Harvard,
never knew anything about this stuff, but he said, how
would you like to come? I don't have a deputy.
How would you just like to come and work. I
saw the work you did for this little caucus, so
I said, yeah, of course I'll come and work. Of course.
And I dropped everything and came and work.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
So yeah, I know one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Lead Roger Porter is, yeah, that's what a break? Well
what Robin? I got to take a quick break. My
guest is Robert Charles. He's a former Assistant Secretary of
State for International Narcotics and Laurence Forcement Affairs. He worked
under the George W. Bush Bush as I call it
Bush forty three administration in that capacity. He's had a
(13:10):
fascinating career, uh and has written a book called Cherish America,
which I want to dive into, and I'm hoping that
some of you might want to. No one probably has
had an opportunity to read the book yet. I don't
expect you to do a book report. However, maybe some
of you, once we get going here, might be able
to recommend some other Americans that if Robert were to
(13:33):
do a sequel book that he might include. So we'll
have some fun with this, I promise. If you'd like
to talk with Robert Charles six one seven, two, four, six, one, seven, nine,
ten thirty. Those are the two best numbers to reach
us at. My name is Dan Ray. This is night Side,
and we're talking to a person who has been blessed
uh in his life. Uh, and he is now blessing
(13:55):
others uh. And a book is entitled Cherish America. And
if anyone tonight who live here a dozen Cherish America,
well your head is not screwed on straight, particularly after
what transpired on Bourbon Street in New Orleans just about
twenty eight hours ago. Now we're coming back on night Side.
We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World,
Nice Sight Studios. I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
With me is Robert Charles. His book is entitled Cherish America.
And I want to get right into the book. The
book came out in October. If I'm not mistaken, Am
I right or wrong on that?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Robert, Yes, sir, yep, it was released again. Yep.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So this is a new book that is out there.
Give us just a little bit of the cast of
characters who we would get some insight in if we
were to take the opportunity to read the book. At
his entirety and then I'd like to just get to
some of the stories that are in the book. Obviously
(14:57):
we can't tell them all. But who gets this profile here?
Who are you talking about in this book?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Absolutely Dan. So let me start by saying I never
intended to write this book the way it ended up
getting written. It was six years in the process, hundreds
of hours of interviews, and notably it's called Cherish America Stories.
The subtitle is Stories of courage, Character and Kindness. And
what I sort of stumbled upon as I sat down,
(15:26):
thinking I needed to write a few of these stories
down is I began to realize that in many ways,
and maybe all of our lives are like this, we
just don't know it. But there's a Forrest Gump element
to my life story, which is that I have crossed
paths with people who did truly extraordinary things, and they
were pieces of my life. And I didn't know that
(15:47):
they had done some of these things until later on,
and I began to pull on threads. So the book
actually is divided into four sections, and the first one
has about twenty two stories, including everybody, and this section
is called Courageous Souls, and it is gripping sort of
Agatha Christie's style, stories about and they're all true about
(16:08):
law enforcement officers who did something extraordinary, pilots, military pilots
who did something extraordinary, teachers or nurses, infantry officers, and
those that you wouldn't expect, people who have disabilities, and
other things that just make your jaw drop when you
see what they've done with who they are just at
(16:29):
the lead in. So then the second section is places
in Time. The cast of characters in that first section,
I'll tell you some of the stories and you know
in short and they'll stop you in their tracks because
they did me. And then places in time, including places
like Arlington, where I have a lot of relatives buried,
and an extraordinary day there that ended with a shaft
(16:50):
of light on a stone which just blew me away,
and I've got photographs in the book. And then getting
out of communists Poland when I got myself in trouble
there walking alone on the beaches of Normandy, and the
sort of granular feeling the living of the moment of
being there. I think people come away feeling it a
(17:11):
lot more strongly when they read that story. And then
some other tougher ones I privately in my twenties walked
through Auschwitz and had notes about all of that. And
then gradually the third piece is Glimpses of History, which
are private stories that have never been told, but include
very personal stories having worked a couple of years with
Colin Powell about what kind of a leader he really was,
(17:35):
what kind of a person inside out, and they're they're
pretty compelling stories. People have never heard them, and there
I think you come away with a much higher level
of understanding and respect for who he was, even if
you went in with a high understanding. And then Ronald Reagan,
who I had the privilege of staying up with after
the White House and tell some stories about both he
and his wife, who I Nancy Reagan, who came and
(17:57):
helped me in Washington on counter narcotics shoes with some testimony.
And then the Bushes and a couple of sort of
serendipitous events. One is that Roger Porter actually and I
were at an event with Gorbachev at one point and
it was a multi day event, and at one point
in that event, I asked Gorbachev whether he believed in God,
(18:20):
and his answer was fascinating. And then my other part
of my life which is an odd ball. But turn
of again serendipity is I did oversight of NASA for
a number of years when I was with Congress, and
in that process, over time back in the nineties, got
to know very well Walt Cunningham who was Apollo seven,
(18:41):
Gene Cernon who was seventeen, and Buzz Aldrin, who I
have ended up working three or four times a week
with for the last twenty five years. And so there
are stories, you know, the Buzz stories are ones which
will just grab you because maybe six years ago, five
years ago, I said, Buzz, we talk all the time,
(19:02):
and you're telling me things. I've read all your books,
and I've seen the clips, and I've read the transcripts,
and you're telling me things that are not in any
of those books. And I think you ought to write
another book. And he said, I don't, you know, I'm
in my nineties. I'm not interested in writing another book.
And so I said, well, here's what we're going to do. Then,
I'm going to turn on the tape recorder and eventually
(19:22):
we're going to pull some of these stories together. How
they got off the moon is absolutely gripping, and most
people have no idea that they almost did not get
off the moon. They had other near death experiences in
things like Gemini twelve and some of the other Gemini missions.
So his stories are just absolutely riveting. And eventually I
didn't originally think of it, but when it was all
(19:43):
said and done and he'd read the manuscript, he offered
to write the forward for this book. So his forward
in this book again words You're not going to see
anywhere else. He has a very clear understanding of what
makes America great, and he really portrayed it. And then
the last section includes deep dives into it's called where
They Stood, some deep dives after reading hundreds of letters
(20:06):
of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and Ben Franklin and
some other more modern heroes like Jimmy Stewart. Deep dives
into some things that you don't know about people that
you think you know. So I will tell you that
the bulk of the story of the book is these
gripping stories about people who in a moment, and literally
(20:27):
it's fifty six stories, but in a moment needed to
show courage, very often real courage, and didn't know if
they had the power to do it, but leaned in
and did it. And some of these are things that
lasted a lifetime. Some of them happened in a thirty
second block. I mean, the first story in the book
is a guy, a law enforcement officer who later worked
(20:48):
for me, who he worked the night shift when he
was young and in the Charlotte area, and he was
coming home one morning early and saw smoke curling out
of trailer. And the bottom line on that story is
he just did some extraordinary things and ended up saving
two little children's lives. And so unique was his selflessness.
(21:10):
And I think of it that way that everybody else
in this book, from you know, from the law enforcement
officers to the military personnel, to Scott Hamilton, who was
the Olympic skater that I've known, and what motivated them.
Their names are in this book, the last names. Rick
didn't want his last name in the book. His story
is so gripping. And then several teachers, I mean, just one,
(21:34):
two and three. One is a story about my history
teacher in high school. And again it seems odd that
one life could touch so many, but all of our
lives are touched by and touch so many. This guy
was an infantry officer one hundred and first airborne in Vietnam.
His stories there are gripping. But when he came back,
there was no Internet, and he realized that all these guys,
(21:57):
thousands of them, had no way to compare. Their story
is to relate to each other, to get together, and
so he started kind of a newsletter. And you know,
I asked him at one point, tell me some of
the things that happened as a result of that. And again,
I've known him for decades. So he started to roll
him out and showed me documents, and you know, one
(22:17):
of the most moving stories is one day he got
a call from a guy who said, I'm looking for
a guy named Jack. And my teacher, David Cook, said
Jack who, he said, I don't know, just Jack. But
here's the story. In the middle of a firefight, a
guy is wandering across the open running actually across an
(22:41):
open plane under fire, and stumbles on a medic who's
working on four guys. He's actually working on three. The
fourth one he's let go. And so this guy recognized
the fourth one and said, why aren't you working on
this guy? He said, he's white, he's bled out, there's
nothing left. He said, well, and he recognized him. They've
been drinking beers a couple of weeks earlier in a
(23:01):
local place, which is described in the book, and he said, well,
what if I could He said, you won't find any veins?
He said, what if I could find a vein? He said,
you find a vein, I'll put plasma in there. Well,
this guy hunts and finally finds a vein in the ankle,
brings the guy. They bring him around forty years later.
The guy who called looking for Jack is the guy
who was saved, who was looking for the guy who
(23:23):
saved him, and my teacher Dave put the two of
them together, so really powerful stuff. Another my eighth grade
math teacher was lit guy.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let me pause you there for second, Robert, only because
we got to take a news break at the bottom
of the hour. We come back, we'll talk more about
those stories. I want to know what Govi Schev had
to say about God, and I want to share a
couple of stories with you as well. My guest is
Robert Charles, a former Assistant Secretary of State, has written
a book called Cherish America. I would say Cherish America
(23:53):
also cherish Americans, because we're very lucky to have been
placed here, very lucky to have found this place if
we hadn't been placed here. And it is amazing how
many people do not appreciate the fact that they live
in the most powerful country in the world, but also
I think the most compassionate. That's part of the theme
(24:14):
I want to hit on the other side of the
news break, my guess, Robert Charles, feel free to join
the conversation if you'd like. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty
Back on night Side right after.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
This, You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
With me is Robert Charles, a native of Maine, lives
up in Maine, has served this country in a number
of capacities, including that as an assistant Secretary of State.
You mentioned meeting Gorbachev and you asked him what he
thought about God. I'd love to know what he said. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, So this is an interesting story because the second
half of this book is people that you know the
names of but you don't know the behind the scenes stories,
and the my first half is unsung heroes. So on Gorbachev,
it was actually a remarkable moment because I don't even
really know why I asked him, other than I had
always wondered if Reagan and I do have private stories
(25:14):
about Reagan in the book, if Reagan had in some
ways felt or sensed something about Gorbachev that allowed him
to kind of open a shaft of light into the man.
And eventually, I mean Gorbachev's stays very standoffish in the
first years and eventually becomes almost an adoring I mean,
he almost adores Reagan. And so the answer to the
(25:38):
question really has two bullet points. The first is that,
when asked directly, he sort of circularly but nevertheless, very
revealingly said that he grew up in a home in
which his grandmother and his grandfather were really decisive influences,
and that his grand father was as a Communist and
(26:01):
his grandmother was a devout Orthodox Christian, and these were
the two big influences on his life. In fact, so
powerful were they that his grandfather kept a picture of
Lenin on the mantlepiece, and on the mantlepiece beside that
was an icon of Christ. And so I plumbed it
a little further, and I will just tell you again,
(26:23):
sometimes you get an exclamation point when you were only
looking for a period. The exact things he said are
very revealing and suggests to me that this man there
was more to him than most people understood, but Reagan
understood it. But the two things that really come the
data points that I want to mention, are that he
(26:43):
actually referred, if you go back to transcripts privately, a
couple of times about the intercession of God in the
peace process that eventually brought the Soviet Union down. And
the other thing is years afterwards, when Reagan died, I
had worked for or Gingrich and I was invited to
come kind of go down a little staircase when they
(27:05):
first had Reagan lying in state and come down and
they stop me at the bottom of the little marble staircase.
It comes from the Speaker's office down to where a
body would lie in state in the Capitol, and they
stopped me, and the capitol police just stopped me, and
I was just by myself, and this little man came
in and walked over and bowed his head at the
(27:27):
casket for I don't know a minute, two minutes maybe three,
and then retreated privately, no press, nothing, And that little
man was Gorbachev. So it's fascinating. That is one story,
and that's the course on the more. You know, I
could tell you private stories about Colin Powell and his
personal attention to people, Reagan's personal attention to people. But
(27:51):
I actually think the more many of the more compelling
stories are on the front end with I was going
to mention my eighth grade math teacher was the first
guy to ever give an orger and to someone, and
he gave it to his brother. Never happened before. The
two boys were both Korean War vets. They only had
each other. Parents were gone, and Ron decided to give
his see if they'd never done it before. They said
(28:12):
it couldn't be done. And then they called him back
and said, actually, your brother's an identical twin. Maybe if
it would ever work, it would work then. And that
story is just gripping. And then another friend of mine
is one of the F sixteen pilots. There were only
two armed F sixteens on nine to eleven, and Jeff
Cashman was one of the two. He and his wingman.
All the pictures you see of New York are taken
(28:34):
by Jeff and his wingman. The two burning towers, And
I asked Jeff, you know, i'd known him for decades.
Twenty years later, after nine to eleven, I asked him,
how do you feel about all this? How do you
feel about what happened and what he didn't get there
in time? But you know, his answers are gripping, They're
really something you'd be amazed at. And then there are
several genuine rescues, military rescues.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
One of my close friends was Cashman based on kit Cot.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Nope, he was based out of Vermont. The squadron got there,
it was fully armed out of Vermont. They did have
other planes that got up out of Andrews, but they
were unarmed. There were only two armed planes. And that's
because when the first tower was hit, Jeff, we didn't
have cell phones and that kind of stuff back then,
and his wife called him and said they hit one
of the towers, and he thought that was odd. He said,
(29:22):
that's not going to be a mistake. And so he
got two F sixteen's fully armed, so that when National
Command authorities actually called him and said can you get
two planes in the air, how long will it take you?
He said thirty seconds, actually said ninety seconds. They said no, no,
fully armed missiles everything he said, I were fully armed,
and so they got up and gave chase. And it's
(29:44):
a fascinating story. A couple of these are gripping in
the sense that Coastguard is involved, a one hundred first
Airborne are involved. A good friend of mine is a
black Hawk pilot who had forty one saves to his
unit's name, and one of those missions and just absolutely
will make you cry. It's unbelievable the risks they took
(30:04):
to get in and save this special operator, and they
saved them, but they you know, they almost they almost
went down together with a revealing tanker. Anyway, just amazing stories,
and that's why I think this book. Honestly, from the
age of twelve to one hundred and twelve, these are
the kinds of stories you want to read. They remind
you that not only are their heroes at your elbow
(30:25):
when you're grocery shopping or on the street, and they
don't talk about it, but there is a hero in you.
And when you read these stories, one of the things
that happens with me. And I've gone back through the
interviews and I read them again and tear up and
think to myself, Okay, I just want to fortify myself
if I was ever in a situation like this, would
I do what they did? You know? Would I rush
(30:46):
in and save those two kids? Would I? You know,
I would I put pedal to the metal with odds
of you know, one hundred to one that I'm not
going to get there and some of these and would
I do it? And that's that's one of the beauties
of this book is it highlights this can do American spirit.
F fifteen pilots, guys that were in Vietnam, guys that
were more recently in combat, and then people who are
(31:09):
doing things in the civilian world. A twenty two year
old nurse and how she managed an unbelievable pile of
responsibility during COVID and what did she do and how
did she do it and how did she feel afterwards?
Really gripping stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
The book is entitled Cherish America. And by the way,
you mentioned being inside of communist Poland. I had that
experience as well as a television reporter in nineteen eighty six,
and it really opened my eyes. Jerozelski was still in
power and we were over there for ten days, and
(31:44):
I could write a book about that also a few
year or so later, I was had at the opportunity
while while I was in Poland, I should say, to
visit Auschwitz, and that was a very important experience in
my life. When we get back, I want to tell
you about an American hero that I think you know about,
(32:06):
but the most courageous individual that I've ever met. And
I'd love to get your reaction to who I think
is in that category. We as we've met many of
the same people believe it or yeah, and I can
identify with you. But I invite our callers to join
(32:29):
the conversation if they want to ask a question of
Robert Charles, or if they want to talk about someone
who they consider to be an American hero. Again, the
book is Cherish America, and I just think that at
this time, all of us in this country who are
blessed enough to be here, need to understand that we
need to cherish this country, because if we do not
(32:50):
cherish this country, there are forces about not only around
the world but in our own country who would like
to bring this country down. And that's why I think
this interview was particularly well timed. It was timed in
advance of what happened in New Orleans on January the
morning of January first. My name is Dan Ray. This
is Nightside. If you'd like to join the conversation, feel free,
(33:11):
don't be intimidated. Six one seven thirty six one seven
nine three one ten thirty Coming back after this one Nightside.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Now back to Dan Ray, Mine from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ, the news Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
My guess is Robert Charles, whose book is Cherished America.
I don't know if you if you remember because you
were younger, but the most courageous guy that I've ever met,
and I've met a lot of courageous people, Robert is
a guy named Lloyd Pete Booker. He was the commander
of the USS Pueblo, which was it's the only American
rule from held in captivity of another country. It's being
(33:48):
held at peter Pang, North Korea. He had a crew
of eighty three men which they were basically pulled off
the high seas off the coast of Korea, North Korea,
and they suffered eleven months of horrific captivity from January
twenty third, nineteen sixty eight to December twenty third, nineteen
(34:08):
sixty eight. And Booker brought all of his crew through
that and the night that he was forced to write
a quote unquote confession, you know, in against the terms
of the uniform.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Do you the convention? Yeah? Well no, yes, yes, military, yes, right,
and you.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Know which is anything beyond name, rank and serial number.
And they promised them that they would start killing his
youngest member of his crew the next morning if he
did not write a letter of confession. So he's an
interesting guy. He's he's passed now, but I became one
of my closest friends in the world. He was an
(34:54):
orphan from from Idaho, grew up in Father flanagainst Boystown,
went to University of Nebraska. It was a mustang, meaning
when you become the community US Naval vessel, your mustang
unless you went to Annapolis. He did not go to Annapolis.
So he was small enough to know that the North
Koreans in nineteen sixty eight, this is now, you know,
many many years ago, over fifty years ago, were blind
(35:19):
to the outside world. And he remembered the word peon,
which is an ode of praise p A e a n.
And he wrote a confession essentially in which he said
it would be his greatest honor to Peon. Kimmel's sung
basically turned the noun into a verb, and yeah, it
(35:43):
was just amazing. And of course the North Koreans released
that they looked at their Korean American dictionary and thought
that they didn't understand that that it was a noun
and not a verb. He used it as a verb. Anyway,
I got to know him, one of the most courageous
people I've ever known in my life. They attempted a
(36:04):
court martial and when he came back and John Chaffey,
who was the detective of navy, said no, that's not
going to happen. And he actually led the d mining
of Hyphong Harbor in nineteen seventy five. And I remember
talking with the time and I said, I hope you're
going to leave a few live ones there. Pete's named
(36:24):
Pete Poker, and he said, you can count on that,
you know.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Man. One of the things you're pointing out, which I
think your listeners will appreciate because they know it, is
that we are the last generation to know some of
those great brave men in person from World War Two
in Korea and many many people have family members, the parents, grandparents,
and I think one of the points of this book
(36:50):
was not even to be individual these are truly gripping
individual stories, but to remind people of their own memories
of people that sacrifice for us and that they admire.
And yes, there are World War Two vets in this store,
in this book, and there's some really remarkable people. But
I will tell you that more often than not, people
(37:11):
read these stories and then come back to me with
members of their own families, and many of them have
done absolutely spectacular things that were for America, and they
are not written down anywhere. And you know, you know,
that's one of the reasons you've got to get a
book like Cherish America to remind you that these people exist.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Well, you know Booker's experience. He was not a Korean
War veteran, because of course, the armist that's been signed
in the early well in the mid fifties, and the
Pueblo was not captured until the actually was in nineteen
sixty eight. January sixty eight, at the height of the
Vietnam War. Let me get some phone calls in here
real quickly if we can. I'm going to move everybody
(37:52):
quickly here. Let me go to Kristin in Wakefield. Kristin
first with Robert Charles, go right ahead, Kristin.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
Thank you, mister Childs, mister Ray. I'm so happy to
hear that you are speaking of this book Terurish America.
I had actually asked for this book at the library
and I've made a few attempts and unfortunately the librarians
have not been able to locate a book in circulation.
(38:20):
And I think it's important for everyone to read and
I would love to read it.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Well, you can get it on Amazon, but I'm with you,
it should it's beginning to roll out. Dan, That's that's
what I'll say.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
And Kristin, Yeah, okay, Kristiny, that book is available. And
as a citizen of Wakefield, as I'm sure you know,
at a public library, you have a right to go
in and request the book, and I have, I.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Will and I'll try again. And I'm very happy to
hear that you're showcasing this book, and I hope others
will pursue it as well.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Well. Absolutely, Thanks very much, Christina. That's a great suggestion.
I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Happy New Year. Nancy and Rosslyndale. Nancy next, on Nightside
with my guest Robert Charles. Go right ahead, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Hi, Hello, Nancy, Yeah, Hi Charles. You know what I
want to tell you that I listened to this program
all the time, and I haven't listened to it in
a little while.
Speaker 7 (39:21):
I am so.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
Inspired by what you have said in your memories of
these things and that you have documented them.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
Since I've been listening to this.
Speaker 6 (39:33):
Program tonight, I have ordered the book on Nightline, I
mean Amazon, and I just I admire the fact that
you are not only looking at what people do in
the military, but what people do in everyday life. You
know what you're earlier, what you said earlier about would
(39:57):
I do that or wouldn't I do that?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (40:01):
You know.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
Often, you know, like my dad was the captain of
the marine and and my uncle Paul was in Vietnam
and I didn't even know he was in Vietnam because
he never talked upon her until my cousin died. You know.
Speaker 6 (40:21):
But you know, I I.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
I like to think that I would run into the fire.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
You know.
Speaker 6 (40:31):
What, what what what I've heard tonight? God bless you.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Nancy. Yeah, Nancy, I just want to thank you because
the spirit that you're talking about we have heroes in
our lives, and very often we don't know it. Uh,
they don't you know these stories? A lot of these
people would never have told these stories unless they were
encouraged to tell them. And I will just tell you
we one of the reasons I wrote these down. And
(40:56):
perhaps your uncle and your and your father will kind
of this comes to mind with them. There was a
book my kids read growing up in high school, I
think called What Is History? The only thing I remember
reading it along with them was that if you took
all the books in all the libraries in all the
world and you put them all together in one pile,
they represent less than one half of a percent of
(41:19):
what actually happened. And so in the end, if you
don't write it down, if we don't remember that these
heroes exist in our past, we'll forget them.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
Yeah, Nancia, I hate to do this year.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
I want to get one more call.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Can I say one more thing, Nancy?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I want to get one other call in. Would you
be kind enough to give one other person to say something? Okay,
thank you, Nancy? If we go to Joe and Lynn, Joe,
I only got about twenty seconds, thirty seconds for you.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
What can you do with a happy New year? Mister Charles,
I'd like to ask use your book in audible audio
for the blind, that I'm not as happy with America
as you are, because I'm visually impairing that a lot
of problems. I'd love to read your book as it
on our boy. If not, please, the answer is, I'm.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Going to work to get it on and I will try,
and I it's in the plan. I will tell you
there are stories about disabled Americans in this book, and
it will make you cry to see how courageous, how
courageous we are as a people.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Well, the reason I mentioned it because some of us
have fallen through the cracks. Thank you and take care.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Thanks Robert Charles enjoyed it a lot. Cherish America. Uh,
I'm going to give people an opportunity the next hour
maybe to talk a little bit. I hope you'll be
able to listen up in Maine about what they cherish
will America. I want to. I want to carry a
love the theme on for the rest of the evening. Robert,
(42:42):
thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
So much, so much, look forward to me and God
bless you. Okay, bye bye now back catch you by back.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Catch Okay, here comes the eleven o'clock news. I'm going
to ask you to plumb your mind right now and
particularly a view of what happened in New Orleans earlier
this week. What is it about America that you cherish?
That's my question. I suspect my audience will rise to
the challenge. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
(43:10):
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty back on
nights Side right after this
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.