December 9, 2025 • 39 mins
The Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Antisemitism recently released their final report and recommendations. The commission was created and signed into law by Gov. Healey during the Summer of 2024 to address the alarming rise of antisemitic incidents and hate crimes occurring across the Commonwealth. David Freedman, one of Gov. Healey’s appointees to the Commission joined us to discuss the report’s findings and recommendations that chart a course for combating antisemitism “the Massachusetts Way".
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I think everybody who was listening to this program over
the last year years, I should say, knows what my
position is on the state of Israel and upon anti
Semitism generally. In the wake of what happened in Israel
in October of twenty twenty three, there was a commission
(00:30):
formed here in Massachusetts. It was a commission, a Special
Commission on combating anti Semitism, and they met for sixteen
public meetings between October twenty twenty four and last month.
Two hundred individuals testified, and anti Semitism is basically described
(00:51):
as hatred of Jews for being Jewish. With me now
is one of the members of that commission. There were
two members appointed by a Governor Haley and Governor Healey
excuse me, what am I saying, Mara Healey and one
of the two well, there were several commissioners here. Let
(01:14):
me make that very clear that we're on this committee.
But to one of the two commissioners appointed by Governor
Healey is with us now, Dave Friedman. Dave is someone
and someone who have known for a while. Amongst other things,
he is executive vice president of Legal and Government Affairs
and chief compliance officer with the Boston Red Sox. Dave Friedman,
(01:35):
Welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir, Dan?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
How are you? Thank you so much for having me tonight.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I'll get to.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Brag on you a little bit. Dave is a very
successful lawyer, graduated from Harvard undergraduate Harvard Law School, president
of the Harvard Law Review, clerked for Federal Appeals Court
judge here in New England Michael Boudin and Supreme Court
then US Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and uh
(02:05):
it so also the chair of the board of the
Commonwealth Shakespeare Company. So not only does he like the
Red Sox with raucous crowds, but he also likes Shakespeare
on the Commons. So you are a renaissance man, mister Friedman.
How you You've done quite a bit in your time.
And on a more serious note, you would also served
(02:26):
as a first Assistant Attorney General here in Massachusetts, uh
and uh where you advise Attorney General then Attorney General
Martha Cokeley. But this was an important commission that you
were tasked to participate on. We've all learned that anti
Semitism is probably much more prevalent than any of us
(02:50):
would would would have wanted. Give us give us the
bottom line here, how much work has to be done
in Massachusetts before we get into the specific What did
the Commission find in terms of the level of anti
Semitism that now exists in Massachusetts two years after that
horrific Saturday morning in Israel in October of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Dan, First, again, I want to thank you for having
me tonight, and I was reflecting, you know, thirteen years
ago I was here on your show, in my red
thoughts capacity talking about the one hundredth anniversary of Fenway Park,
And so you think, thirteen years ago, we're celebrating a
love affair between a city and a ballpark. I never,
in my wildest dreams would have thought, even two and
(03:37):
a half years ago, that I'd be devoting so much
of my time to fighting anti Semitism, and that I'd
be here with you talking about the world's oldest hatred.
And I don't have enough time. We don't have enough
time to recount everything in the Special Commission's report. But
let me try to cut to the chase of your answer.
This Commission was a great honor to serve on. There
(03:57):
were nineteen members. It was co chaired by two incredibly
great leaders. State Senator John Velis from Westfield. He is
not Jewish, but you couldn't find a stronger ally for
Jewish people. He's actually now deployed as a member of
the National Guard. And then State Representative Simon Cataldo, who's
a rising star, although actually that's not true. He's already
(04:19):
risen a great leader in the House of Representatives. And
so we have this broad commission of members tasked with
this incredibly broad project try to understand anti Semitism in
Massachusetts and our findings, and it's all available on the
State Commission website if you just google Special Commission on
Commanding Anti Semitism. Of course, we have a bunch of
(04:40):
factual findings and we found that, in fact, as you said,
anti Semitism here in Massachusetts is a systemic problem. It's
very serious, it's pervasive. A lot of the response has
not been the same kind of response that we pride
ourselves in taking when it comes to other forms of hate.
(05:00):
And we found this. We focused on K through twelve education,
whether it's rural or urban districts, districts with very few
Jews or lots of Jews, and anti semitisms across It's
happening across the spectrum. You see the standard old right
wing white supremacist version celebrating Hitler and swastikas, and we
(05:20):
see that in Massachusetts. Believe it or not, there's plenty
of examples. And it's also coming from the left, pro hamas,
protesting and activism, which crosses a line into glorifying violence
against Jews and demonizing Israel in a way that we
don't demonize any country. So what's the solution. I mean,
if only it were that easy. But we have a
(05:43):
bunch of very concrete recommendations. Some of them are in education,
ranging from we recommend mandatory training for teachers and administrators.
What is anti Semitism. There's a lot of misunderstanding about
the nature of this hate. We certainly have of recommendations
on protocol for responding to incidents. When something's reported, you
(06:05):
don't just brush it under the rug. There should be
clear communication to condemn that, clear protocol for reporting of incidents,
for treating it seriously with respect. Education, certainly, Holocaust education
is a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire puzzle,
trying to promote civic discourse. We urge schools and employers
(06:26):
to celebrate Jewish American Heritage Month in May, so the
whole range of things, And in doing this we try
to pursue what we call the Massachusetts Way, which is
taking this very seriously, treating it just as seriously as
other forms of hate, and at the same time doing
that in a way that respects civil liberties, that understands
that the First Amendment is a bulwark that protects people's
(06:49):
speech rights, even sometimes when they're engaged in hate speech.
So there's nothing in our report that comes close to
censoring people or preventing people from engaging in advocate to see,
which they're perfectly capable of doing. But we're trying to
draw lines and try to address this explosion of hate.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I guess is Attorney Dave Friedman. He's a legal counsul
for the Boston Red Sox and he has just finished
a year serving on this committee. He was appointed by
Governor Healy Aster's Special Commissioner of Combating Anti Semitism. We
want to talk more about it. I want to talk
about how this could still exist, you know now it's
(07:33):
eighty years after World War Two. It just seems to
me this is this hatred that just will not go away.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And I want.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
To why we here in Massachusetts cannot be the best example,
and can we be the best example. So that's the
question that I'd like to get into, and those of
you who would like to join the conversation. We go
over some of the specific ideas. A lot of it
deals with CA to twelve education and quite frankly, the
(08:05):
teachers union here in Massachusetts. And I'm not here to
bash the teachers union. A year ago, I was dealing
with some study manuals and curriculum that was anything but
friendly towards some of the concerns that I think have
been raised. So there's some work to be done. If
you'd like to join the conversation with Dave Friedman six
(08:26):
one seven, two five four ten thirty or six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty, I think it's a very
important topic. We saw what happened in Israel two years
ago in October. We sat a long time ago, never again,
never again, never again, and here it happened and again
(08:47):
in a very brief moment in time. But there were
hundreds hundreds who were killed purely innocent people who were
doing nothing, either that enjoying music or waking up in
their homes on that horrible Saturday morning. We'll take a
quick break six one, seven, two, five, four thirty six month,
(09:08):
seven nine, three, one ten thirty questions and comments about
combating anti Semitism in Massachusetts. Wouldn't it be great if
we didn't have to worry about this? But we do
need to worry about it. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news
radio with me.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
As attorney Dave Friedman.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He's also the executive vice president and chief legal counsel,
legal and government fairs and chief Compliance officer for the
Boston Red Sox, and he has just finished serving a
year on the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism,
appointed one of the two appointees that Governor more Healy
(09:52):
was able to appoint to this commission. Real quickly, Dave, I,
for the life of me don't understand, and growing up
and I'm older than you, we in Massachusetts always thought
that a lot of the the hateful comments we associated
with people in the in the Deep South, and for
(10:14):
some reason, we always thought that in Massachusetts we're a
little more enlightened than that. But obviously that's not the situation,
and it is you know, a long time that that
that we've been dealing with this. Why, in your opinion,
have these you know, blood libels, these these stupid myths
(10:36):
been allowed to to persist and be propagated in Massachusetts.
Above all, we would like to think that we're the
most educated state in the country. I just don't get it,
and I don't I have never understood anti Semitism from
the time that I really, you know, as a kiddo,
(10:59):
came out of our Catholic school in Reedville Elementary School
and found out that the real smart kids, the most
broad in my class at Boston Lads School, with kids
who had gone to you know, some of the schools
in Mattapana, Dorchester, the Jewish kids. What's wrong with us?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It's perplexing, Dan, And it's a shape shifting kind of
hate that, for instance, gives you the following paradox. At
the same time, you have a white supremacist saying Jews
aren't white enough, and therefore let's criticize them and hate
on them. And at the same time, you have someone
on the left saying, you know, in a simplistic oppress
(11:40):
or oppressed binary, the Jews and Israelis are the white
oppressors oppressing other people, and you've got to kind of
pick one or the other. But it's a shape shifting
form of hate. And in this case, I think part
of the answer is that there's been an underlying degree
of it throughout our society. There's a history in America
of anti Semitism Charles and berg Head Reford. But what
(12:02):
we're seeing today is actually, in part, maybe a large
part of product of a very effective propaganda campaign funded
by Katar, funded by Hamas, funded by foreign terrorists, who
deliberately said, let's focus on especially college campuses and the
most elite campuses. And so for twenty plus years you've
had the BDS movement, which stands for boycott, to vest
(12:25):
and sanction, and even before October seventh, after October SEVENTHS
took off, but they've been planning seeds for twenty years.
So every year you go to college campuses and the campaign,
the drumbeat is, you know, Israel's an apartheid nation, singling
at Israel. Now, what about all the Muslim countries that
surround Israel, where Jews and Christians aren't allowed to worship,
(12:48):
much less live free lives. But this campaign singles at Israel.
It's been calling Israel a genocidal state for twenty years,
notwithstanding that the population of Gaza had been going up
during that time, which if Israel's genocidal, it's pretty pathetic
and ineffective at doing so. And so the BDS movement
is this propaganda campaign. What we saw right after October
(13:12):
seventh was student groups armed with toolkits, literally ready on
October eighth to start protests. And as you said, why
is it that people are able to be susceptible to this?
It's baffling and frustrating. But I had a college classmate
of mine on our Facebook page post on October ninth.
(13:35):
So this is before Israel has mobilized to do any
kind of response to October seventh. On October ninth, there's
no military response. Israel still collecting the smoldering bodies and
trying to figure out where the hostages went. And this
classmate of mine posts Israel's about to commit genocide. So
the facts don't matter, Dan, The fact don't matter. What
(13:56):
is Israel. They've already written the narrative. Whatever Israel had done,
let's call it a genocide. And of course it's multiplied
when social media and even mainstream media spread this. And
just a quick example, you may remember early on in
the war, the conflict, which by the way, we all
pray for peace. My wife is from Israel. All of
(14:17):
our friends Jewish, Israeli, American care about innocent Palestinians. We
don't want war over there. Worse terrible, it's awful. But
early on in the war, in the conflict, there's this
explosive story that Israel had bombed and exploded a hospital,
and it went viral and all these people immediately posting
on social media how terrible that Israel had committed this
(14:38):
awf lack. It turned out, and people figured out less
than a day that Israel didn't bomb the hospital. It
was blown up by an errant Hamas missile. But by
that point it's too late. You've had a day of
all this exaggeration. The corrections that are run are on
page six and so short answering your question is a
lot of it's propaganda, and it's a campaign that very effective.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Well, when.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
When people compared Israel to apartheid South Africa. I wanted
to scream, you know, have they have they looked at
the makeup of the Knesset, the members of the Kanesset
who are not Jewish in fact are Arab. Have they
looked at, you know, Israel taking in Ethiopian Jews historically?
(15:24):
I mean, there's just so many examples that people are
unaware of. And I do believe that a lot of
this goes back to the days of Occupy Wall Street,
at least the recent incarnation of this. I remember we
had a SoundBite from a woman who was a teacher
(15:46):
in the Los Angeles School District. Rob. I don't know
if you still have that sound bite available, but it was.
It's a frightening SoundBite, and the frightening aspect of it
was not only what she said, but the way in
which she said it was so blatant. She's speaking to
a camera, a network camera, full face view. Do you
(16:09):
have that, rub Okay, let me play this for you, Dave.
This is Occupy Wall Street out of Los Angeles circa
twenty ten. In twenty eleven, and this is when I
really got the first whiff of anti Semitism coming from
the left side of the spectrum. Get your reaction to this,
(16:29):
go ahead, rub aim an affiliation Patrician McAllister.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
I'm here representing myself, but I do work for the
Los Angeles Unified School District, and I think that the
Zionist Jews who are running these big banks in our
federal reserve, which is not run by the federal government,
they need to be run out of this country.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I was shocked, and we've kept that SoundBite, Dave. I
don't know if you've ever heard that one before, but
this was at the time of the Occupy Wall Street
madness ten twenty eleven, and all of a sudden, these
old tropes just bubbled up to the surface for nowhere.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
It shocked me.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, I think then that you're probably right with some
of these roots, but I feel like it's now taken
several steps further. And our commission spent a lot of
time talking to witnesses and looking at evidence about K
through twelve schools here, and we talked a little bit
about some of the members of Maths Teachers Association and
what they've done, and it's actually much worse than those tropes.
(17:39):
It actually has now veered into explicit glorification and justification
of violence and mass murder. And so I'll give you
a couple quick examples. The first date that our commission
met was October twenty twenty four, and I was wearing
one of those yellow ribbon pins that we wore because
Hamas was holding hostages Israeli on American hostages. So after
(18:03):
the hearing, a woman who's one of the leaders of JVP,
the Boston chapter of JVP, comes up to me and
she says, but JVP fans for Jewish voices for peace,
and they're certainly not truly for peace. They are a
strikingly radical anti Israel group. And she says, what's this
(18:24):
pin for. I say, well, I'm wearing this to remember
and think about and call for the release of the
Israeli and American people, innocent, young people and old people, babies,
elderly being held hostage by the Hamas terrorists. And she
cuts me off. They're not terrorists, it's justified resistance. And
so here she's telling me that the atrocity is the
(18:45):
worst murder of Jews since the Holocaust. Wasn't terrorism, it's
justified resistance. And then you fast forward to the NASS
teachers Association, where members of the not the whole union,
but some members sent us a letter to the Commission
saying that we were wrong to show revolutionary posters of
militant people who want to kill Jews because they have
(19:07):
the right to justify resistance. And what's troubling is that
it's become so normalized that we hear this rhetoric and
we kind of move on without paying attention to or
condemning it. And so, Dan, what shocks me. Two weeks ago,
I think you probably saw this here in Boston on
Boylston Street, copy place, at the site of the marathon
(19:28):
bombing where in twenty thirteen a couple of radicalized people
blew up innocent civilians, Americans. This wasn't an anti Semitic attack.
It was an anti American attack at the marathon bombing site.
Two weeks ago, you've got these anti Israel protesters chanting
there is only one solution into fada, revolution and chanting
(19:49):
globalized the into Fada. Now. I've studied the Intafada, but
my wife lived in Israel through it, and you know
what the end offada was. The Intafada was pizza parlors
being blown up, children's limbs flying through the air, school
buses and buses being exploded, people's private homes being firebombed.
(20:10):
Into FADA was terrorism. So we've now had people at
a sight of domestic terrorism here in Boston chanting globalizing
into fada. Now do they all know what FADA means?
Some of them probably don't know what it means, and
they're just, you know, they think that it's cool to
be able to post on social media that they were
doing it, But it's very dangerous and it's actually much
(20:31):
worse than Occupy Wall Street in that respect.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
No, I'd just say that, and then the people who
were who were chanting from the River to the sea,
all that means is eliminate Israel. Do I think that
all of the protesters who were protest, who were chanting
from the River to the sea knew what the implications
of that were. No, But how how do they find
themselves entrapped as participants where they're mouthing platitudes that are
(20:58):
devastatingly harmed and hurtful to other people, but they don't
even understand that. Dave Frieman, we got to take a
quick break for the newscast. Here we have some callers
coming in. We're going to get to them, uh uh
and continue this conversation. I think it's just an important conversation.
I believe that anti Semitism is it appeals to the
(21:23):
worst instinct. I mean historically, you know these are people
who deny the existence of the Holocaust. And anyway, I
don't want to go on. You're the person who has
studied this much more than I have, and I want
to hear more from you and from our callers. If
you'd like to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
(21:44):
If you don't think this is important, you're dead wrong.
You're dead wrong. This is a vitally important subject. We've
visited it many times, and we're going to stick with
this tonight. I hope some of the callers will join
the conversation. I have Harvey Silver Glead of Waits, as
does Stephen Cambridge. We'll be and this room for you.
If you've never called before, now is the time. Silence
(22:08):
can be interpreted by some as tacit approval. Don't be
silent never again. Six one seven, two thirty six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty back on Night's Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
With Me's attorney, Dave Freeman.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
He has just finished a year long role as a
member of the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
He was one of the.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Two appointees to this commission, which I think you had
in total about fifteen members, if if I'm not mistaken
the total number of members, but two members who were
appointed by the governor, and you were.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
One of them.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Uh, let's let's get to phone calls, Dave and see
what people say. I want to start off with a
great friend of mine and the friend of this program,
Harvey Silvergle Harvey, you are on with Dave Friedman. So
I'm going to listen to the two great lawyers discuss this,
and I'm going to sit back and keep quiet. Go
right ahead, Harvey.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
Okay. My position, I'm one of the Semites who's the
object of the anti Semites. By the way, my position
is that anti Semitism, like any other irrational hatred, cannot
be eradicated. That the job we have is not to
(23:35):
change the hearts and minds of the anti Semites. That
is impossible. The task before us is to prevent that
anti Semitism from eventuating into violence. I've said this before,
I think on this program. I was a Jewish student
(23:57):
of Princeton in nineteen sixty before when they were about
a dozen Jews in the class of five hundred and
vial anti semitism. Every Jew in the class was graduated
first in his in his high school. And my position
(24:28):
was then and remains that as long as they don't
touch me, they can call me what they want. And
I actually found it useful to know who hated me
and who didn't. So I'm a free speech absolutist, and
I believe that people should be allowed to express their
(24:49):
hatreds verbally, and that has a great social purpose because
it tells you, it tells the object of the hatred, who,
who hates who hates you?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, let's get let's get Dave to respond to that, Harvey.
I intellectually I understand that Dave your reaction to Harvey's
argument on both you know, legally, constitutionally and also from
a practical point of view.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, thank you and thank you Harvey. I have a
few things to say in Harvey, of course, is a
very well known First Amendment advocate. The Special Commission made
very clear that the Massachusetts approach to combating anti Semitism
respects the First Amendment, and we're not calling for any
kind of censorship. And so to that extent, we certainly agree,
I disagree that you can't change some hearts and minds.
(25:41):
And there's been a lot of survey data done. Now.
The Blue Square Alliance, which is the craft organization that
used to be called Foundation to Combat Anti Semitism, has
done a lot of survey works of other organizations, and
what they've consistently found is what jives with what I
see when I go to campuses. For instance, I teach
a as at Harvard Laws, so I'm a member the faculty.
(26:02):
There's probably that a ten percent of people who you
could say they truly are haters, they harbor real hatred
in their heart. But then there's a lot of people
who engage in conduct which is offensive or biased or troubling,
who are ignorant and with a better understanding, whether it's
(26:23):
Holocaust education or exposure, might just pause and say, wait
a second, I have not been looking at this the
right way. Violence absolutely is a problem, and unfortunately it's
on the rise, and Massachusetts now with five percent of
its population as Jews, eighty five percent of reported hate
(26:44):
crimes based on religion. We're targeting Jews. So I think
that what we have here is a genuine crisis. And
I'll just add one thing, which is, yes, we need
to focus on ways to curtail violence.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
But almost as bad as the violence is the racism
and exclusion and harassment that Jews and especially Israelis have
seen in the last couple of years. And here's just
one shocking statistic, which I think is extraordinarily troubling. And
it's different from when I went to Harvard back in
the nineteen nineties. Professor Aton Hirsch, a brilliant professor, has
(27:19):
done some survey work. In twenty twenty four, he asked
for US students on college campuses, non Jewish students. He
asked the question, would you be friends with someone who
supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish state? Not
do you support every action of the Israeli government. You
support the existence of Israel, would you be friends with
(27:41):
that person? Because most Jews do support the existence of Israel.
Twenty percent, one in five said no. I wouldn't be
friends with someone supports Israel's existence. Another forty five percent
said they weren't sure. And when I see that answer,
I think it probably means nah, I've got a problem
with that, or at least I have to think about it.
(28:03):
So if two of three non Jewish students in America
aren't sure or not willing to be friends with someone
who believes in Israel's existence, that's a pretty big problem.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
However, your comment, well, I can see his point of view.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Again, he's not talking about penalizing people for saying. Look,
there was the professor from Cornell I forget what his
name was, and in the wake of what happened on
October seventh, he said that he was exhilarated. Now that
guy's still teaching at Cornell, as I understand it, he
was exhilarated by that massacre, that slaughter. How can you
be a professor at Cornell University and even articulate those
(28:51):
words in relation to what happened on October seventh.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
Academic freedom, well, you could articulate, I mean, if physically
you can articulate those words, stay at academic freedom, But
from a from an ethical or a moral a moral
point of view, How can you believe in.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
In your articulation of those words. People could say anything
they want, but.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
We have a we have a right to criticize and
comment on such people. But I do think that it's
not an excuse for attempting to fire somebody.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, my of the question is if I was a
Jewish student in that class, or if my my son
and daughter were Jewish students in that class, would they
be treated fairly by that professor who says he was
exhilarated by that. I mean, I'm just using that as
one example, that's all. I'm not going to beat a
dead horse on it. But Harvey, as always, you are
one of my my most challenging callers and one of
(29:47):
my best friends. So thank you for joining us tonight.
Thank you so much as always.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Right, oh, all right, thanks, we'll be back.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I got Steven Cambridge and Steven Topshill coming up. My
guest is Dave Friedman. He was a member of the
Special Commission here at Massachusetts and combating anti Semitism. We'll
be back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Back to the phones, you go. Let me go to
Steven Cambridge. Steve, welcome, you are next on Nightside with the.
Speaker 8 (30:18):
True Good Evening, Dave Dave. I think on college campuses
for about the last twenty years or thirty years, there's
been kind of this genesis of this anti colonialism, and
they feel that the British Empire and America and Europeans
(30:39):
and white people in general are racist, exploitive, and genocidal.
So I don't think this has been something that's been
funded by Hamas to target Israel. It's a much more
sweeping type of condemnation of Western society, of which they
think Israel is an example.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Thanks Steve. I agree with that. And actually the Hamas
funded propaganda, which is also a verified fact, feeds into
what you're talking about. And that's what's so clever about
it is there's these phrases that are being used to
demonize Israel that are tested and they say, okay, well
this is going to feed into Americans perception and the left.
(31:24):
You know, they don't like apartheid, so let's use that phrase.
They don't like the colonialism of the West, so let's
say that Israel is a settlar, clonalist nation and You're
absolutely right, and of course you can teach history in
a very slanted way where the Holocaust is not relevant
to the founding of Israel. Of course, we know that
the reason Israel was created as was a Palestinian state
(31:47):
in nineteen forty eight was an immediate response to the Holocaust.
So I think that your point.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
As well taken.
Speaker 8 (31:54):
One other point, I am a supporter of Israel, and
I find I can't I can't talk to anybody because
either the people I know are such strong supporters of
Israel that any criticism of Israel is deemed anti Semitism,
and I know the other people who any kind of
defense of Israel at all is met with just frightful response.
(32:16):
But the other day in the newspaper it said that
at this point in Gaza, seventy thousand people have been killed.
How does how do you respond to that you, personally.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Dave, Yeah, I mean a couple of things. I mean,
the Anti Semitism Commission's focus wasn't on Middle East policy,
and you know, our focus ended up getting into Israel
issues because there's a huge difference between criticizing the actions
or policies of an Israeli government and going further and
(32:52):
saying the whole nation isn't legitimate from the river to
the sea, we should eliminate it. So that's one answer
is you can bemoan the war and what's happened, but
also understand that Israel is legitimate and that there's a
line with respect to your question. More pointedly, I don't
trust the figures that Hamas uses for deaths. Why would
(33:14):
we trust anything they say? And now I'm just speaking
on my own behalf, not on behalf of the Commission.
You know, there's a lot of dead people in Gaza,
and that's a tragedy. It was a tragedy that was
started by Hamas on October seventh, and thank goodness, there's
a ceasefire in place now and we pray for a
future where there can be more peace. But I'm glad
(33:37):
you raised the question in this sense. One of the
challenges that our Commission faced was there are some Jewish people,
mostly left wing Jews, who consider themselves anti Zionists. They
may not favor a two state solution, and our Commission
went out of our way to try to hear them
and say there is room for good faith sincere discussion
(33:59):
on these issue there's room in good faith to say,
you know, wouldn't it be nice for people in the
area that's now Israel to all live in peace and
not have two states. That's very different from the violent
thro Haamas propaganda that's out there. And most Jews when
they hear chance like globalizing in Tofado or from the
(34:20):
river to sea, find that offensive and traumatic. But if
you're being thoughtful and responsible and even nuanced about it,
then sure some people when they want to have these
discussions that Israel, there is room for that good faith dialogue,
and we try to recognize that as a commission.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Steve is always thank you for the very thoughtful questions
of gone.
Speaker 8 (34:39):
And thank you, Thank you, David, have a great night.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Let me go to another Steve. This one is in Topsfield.
Steven Topsfield, next on nice side with Attorney Dave Friedman.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Go ahead, Steve, Hey, Dave, how are you.
Speaker 6 (34:53):
Great?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
How are you good?
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Good?
Speaker 6 (34:55):
Hey?
Speaker 9 (34:56):
Hey Davey. You know what's interesting that that last you know,
speaker hit at one point the thing I wanted to
discuss was the civilian casualties that are taking place in
this war, and it's huge between Hamas Palestinian people. What happened,
(35:17):
you know, Ober and whatnot. But there there's a huge
amount of casualties on the population of Palestine, and I
just wanted to kind of get your comments on that.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I think Steve, without being redundant, I think he just
did comment on that.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Is there another question.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I'm glad to answer that too, but go ahead. I'll
just qut no, no, I can you know? Yeah, a
number one civilian casualties in war. Again, it's a tragedy.
It's something that I personally think is awful. A lot
of the tragedy is that Hamas uses people as human shields.
This has been documented for a long time. There have
(35:59):
been studies, including the West Point expert who found that
the ratio of civilian to Milton casualties was actually lower
than in other conflicts. And you know, when the West
was combating Adolf Hitler and we had the bomb Dresden
and do other things and kill a lot of civilians,
that was terrible. A lot of innocent people died. No
(36:20):
one said the United States was committing genocide and that
isn't genocide. So you know, there's a difference in language matters.
There's a difference between saying this is a terrible war.
It shouldn't have been necessary. We're you know, torn about it,
and we wish it was less civilian casualty. No one's
celebrating that on my household. But there's a difference between
(36:41):
that and saying, oh, Israel's committing genocide. So anyway, Dan,
I think he wanted to move on to the next.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Yeah, No, I just want to say, I think that's great. No,
I appreciate that comment on that, you know, and that's
what's happened. But anyway, I just wanted to get some
feedback a night on the right.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Thank you, Steve, appreciate your call. Didn't mean to interrupt you.
Let me go quickly. Ruth is in Brookline. Ruth, I
got about thirty second. You've called really late. Is there
anything you'd like to ask or comments you'd like to know?
Speaker 6 (37:13):
What?
Speaker 10 (37:14):
The one comment I'd like to make is was noted
in the beginning. This report contains many very important recommendations,
but they're all basically voluntary, and I think it's like
really important if maybe Dave could address you know, what
the public who's concerned about seeing the report actually being implemented,
(37:36):
like what people who care can do at this point, Okay,
get a difference.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
We're just tight on time here, Ruth Dave. What can
folks do at this point who either want to see
the report and read it themselves or hopefully advocate for
the implementation of some of the suggestions.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Sure, a great question. The reports available on the Special
Commission website, which you can google, and there's something that
everyone can do, whether it's talking to your school district
and saying these are good recommendations that we should follow,
or talking to your elected officials. We've been hardened that
Governor Heally and Lieutenant Governor Driscoll and Attorney General Campbell
and many other leaders have supported our recommendations, and ultimately
(38:17):
it comes down to a lot of collective action. And
I want to add something. I mean, Dan, thank you
for focusing on the unique crisis of antisemitism. It's unique,
it requires special attention. We had a commission just about it,
and at the same time, so much of our report
involved measures that actually combat all forms of hate. And
(38:38):
you'll see when we're calling for ways to improve protocols
for dealing with incidents or having better dialogue, these are
things that also are important to addressing anti LGBTQ plus hate,
anti black racism, so it's not just anti semitism that
we're trying to fix.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
All right, Ruth, good question.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Hopefully folks can get that report, get access to it,
and as Ruth suggested, take some action on it. Ruth,
thank you very much for your call. Dave Friedman, thank
you very much for your call, for your time tonight,
I should say, and your analysis for us, and go
get us a right handed hitter for the Red Sox.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Will you we need a first baseman.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Thanks Dan. You know there is hope. There's hope when
it comes to baseball. As I said, there's hope on
these issues. There's a lot of support. I'm grateful with
Governor Heally putting me on this commission, and I'm grateful
to you for just paying attention to the issue.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Pleasure. Thanks Dave.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
We'll talk again, okay, anytime.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
We'll have you back.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, we get back on the other side of the
ten o'clock news. We're going to talk about fifty year mortgages,
a new mortgage vehicle,
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I think everybody who was listening to this program over
the last year years, I should say, knows what my
position is on the state of Israel and upon anti
Semitism generally. In the wake of what happened in Israel
in October of twenty twenty three, there was a commission
(00:30):
formed here in Massachusetts. It was a commission, a Special
Commission on combating anti Semitism, and they met for sixteen
public meetings between October twenty twenty four and last month.
Two hundred individuals testified, and anti Semitism is basically described
(00:51):
as hatred of Jews for being Jewish. With me now
is one of the members of that commission. There were
two members appointed by a Governor Haley and Governor Healey
excuse me, what am I saying, Mara Healey and one
of the two well, there were several commissioners here. Let
(01:14):
me make that very clear that we're on this committee.
But to one of the two commissioners appointed by Governor
Healey is with us now, Dave Friedman. Dave is someone
and someone who have known for a while. Amongst other things,
he is executive vice president of Legal and Government Affairs
and chief compliance officer with the Boston Red Sox. Dave Friedman,
(01:35):
Welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir, Dan?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
How are you? Thank you so much for having me tonight.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I'll get to.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Brag on you a little bit. Dave is a very
successful lawyer, graduated from Harvard undergraduate Harvard Law School, president
of the Harvard Law Review, clerked for Federal Appeals Court
judge here in New England Michael Boudin and Supreme Court
then US Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and uh
(02:05):
it so also the chair of the board of the
Commonwealth Shakespeare Company. So not only does he like the
Red Sox with raucous crowds, but he also likes Shakespeare
on the Commons. So you are a renaissance man, mister Friedman.
How you You've done quite a bit in your time.
And on a more serious note, you would also served
(02:26):
as a first Assistant Attorney General here in Massachusetts, uh
and uh where you advise Attorney General then Attorney General
Martha Cokeley. But this was an important commission that you
were tasked to participate on. We've all learned that anti
Semitism is probably much more prevalent than any of us
(02:50):
would would would have wanted. Give us give us the
bottom line here, how much work has to be done
in Massachusetts before we get into the specific What did
the Commission find in terms of the level of anti
Semitism that now exists in Massachusetts two years after that
horrific Saturday morning in Israel in October of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Dan, First, again, I want to thank you for having
me tonight, and I was reflecting, you know, thirteen years
ago I was here on your show, in my red
thoughts capacity talking about the one hundredth anniversary of Fenway Park,
And so you think, thirteen years ago, we're celebrating a
love affair between a city and a ballpark. I never,
in my wildest dreams would have thought, even two and
(03:37):
a half years ago, that I'd be devoting so much
of my time to fighting anti Semitism, and that I'd
be here with you talking about the world's oldest hatred.
And I don't have enough time. We don't have enough
time to recount everything in the Special Commission's report. But
let me try to cut to the chase of your answer.
This Commission was a great honor to serve on. There
(03:57):
were nineteen members. It was co chaired by two incredibly
great leaders. State Senator John Velis from Westfield. He is
not Jewish, but you couldn't find a stronger ally for
Jewish people. He's actually now deployed as a member of
the National Guard. And then State Representative Simon Cataldo, who's
a rising star, although actually that's not true. He's already
(04:19):
risen a great leader in the House of Representatives. And
so we have this broad commission of members tasked with
this incredibly broad project try to understand anti Semitism in
Massachusetts and our findings, and it's all available on the
State Commission website if you just google Special Commission on
Commanding Anti Semitism. Of course, we have a bunch of
(04:40):
factual findings and we found that, in fact, as you said,
anti Semitism here in Massachusetts is a systemic problem. It's
very serious, it's pervasive. A lot of the response has
not been the same kind of response that we pride
ourselves in taking when it comes to other forms of hate.
(05:00):
And we found this. We focused on K through twelve education,
whether it's rural or urban districts, districts with very few
Jews or lots of Jews, and anti semitisms across It's
happening across the spectrum. You see the standard old right
wing white supremacist version celebrating Hitler and swastikas, and we
(05:20):
see that in Massachusetts. Believe it or not, there's plenty
of examples. And it's also coming from the left, pro hamas,
protesting and activism, which crosses a line into glorifying violence
against Jews and demonizing Israel in a way that we
don't demonize any country. So what's the solution. I mean,
if only it were that easy. But we have a
(05:43):
bunch of very concrete recommendations. Some of them are in education,
ranging from we recommend mandatory training for teachers and administrators.
What is anti Semitism. There's a lot of misunderstanding about
the nature of this hate. We certainly have of recommendations
on protocol for responding to incidents. When something's reported, you
(06:05):
don't just brush it under the rug. There should be
clear communication to condemn that, clear protocol for reporting of incidents,
for treating it seriously with respect. Education, certainly, Holocaust education
is a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire puzzle,
trying to promote civic discourse. We urge schools and employers
(06:26):
to celebrate Jewish American Heritage Month in May, so the
whole range of things, And in doing this we try
to pursue what we call the Massachusetts Way, which is
taking this very seriously, treating it just as seriously as
other forms of hate, and at the same time doing
that in a way that respects civil liberties, that understands
that the First Amendment is a bulwark that protects people's
(06:49):
speech rights, even sometimes when they're engaged in hate speech.
So there's nothing in our report that comes close to
censoring people or preventing people from engaging in advocate to see,
which they're perfectly capable of doing. But we're trying to
draw lines and try to address this explosion of hate.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I guess is Attorney Dave Friedman. He's a legal counsul
for the Boston Red Sox and he has just finished
a year serving on this committee. He was appointed by
Governor Healy Aster's Special Commissioner of Combating Anti Semitism. We
want to talk more about it. I want to talk
about how this could still exist, you know now it's
(07:33):
eighty years after World War Two. It just seems to
me this is this hatred that just will not go away.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And I want.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
To why we here in Massachusetts cannot be the best example,
and can we be the best example. So that's the
question that I'd like to get into, and those of
you who would like to join the conversation. We go
over some of the specific ideas. A lot of it
deals with CA to twelve education and quite frankly, the
(08:05):
teachers union here in Massachusetts. And I'm not here to
bash the teachers union. A year ago, I was dealing
with some study manuals and curriculum that was anything but
friendly towards some of the concerns that I think have
been raised. So there's some work to be done. If
you'd like to join the conversation with Dave Friedman six
(08:26):
one seven, two five four ten thirty or six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty, I think it's a very
important topic. We saw what happened in Israel two years
ago in October. We sat a long time ago, never again,
never again, never again, and here it happened and again
(08:47):
in a very brief moment in time. But there were
hundreds hundreds who were killed purely innocent people who were
doing nothing, either that enjoying music or waking up in
their homes on that horrible Saturday morning. We'll take a
quick break six one, seven, two, five, four thirty six month,
(09:08):
seven nine, three, one ten thirty questions and comments about
combating anti Semitism in Massachusetts. Wouldn't it be great if
we didn't have to worry about this? But we do
need to worry about it. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news
radio with me.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
As attorney Dave Friedman.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He's also the executive vice president and chief legal counsel,
legal and government fairs and chief Compliance officer for the
Boston Red Sox, and he has just finished serving a
year on the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism,
appointed one of the two appointees that Governor more Healy
(09:52):
was able to appoint to this commission. Real quickly, Dave, I,
for the life of me don't understand, and growing up
and I'm older than you, we in Massachusetts always thought
that a lot of the the hateful comments we associated
with people in the in the Deep South, and for
(10:14):
some reason, we always thought that in Massachusetts we're a
little more enlightened than that. But obviously that's not the situation,
and it is you know, a long time that that
that we've been dealing with this. Why, in your opinion,
have these you know, blood libels, these these stupid myths
(10:36):
been allowed to to persist and be propagated in Massachusetts.
Above all, we would like to think that we're the
most educated state in the country. I just don't get it,
and I don't I have never understood anti Semitism from
the time that I really, you know, as a kiddo,
(10:59):
came out of our Catholic school in Reedville Elementary School
and found out that the real smart kids, the most
broad in my class at Boston Lads School, with kids
who had gone to you know, some of the schools
in Mattapana, Dorchester, the Jewish kids. What's wrong with us?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It's perplexing, Dan, And it's a shape shifting kind of
hate that, for instance, gives you the following paradox. At
the same time, you have a white supremacist saying Jews
aren't white enough, and therefore let's criticize them and hate
on them. And at the same time, you have someone
on the left saying, you know, in a simplistic oppress
(11:40):
or oppressed binary, the Jews and Israelis are the white
oppressors oppressing other people, and you've got to kind of
pick one or the other. But it's a shape shifting
form of hate. And in this case, I think part
of the answer is that there's been an underlying degree
of it throughout our society. There's a history in America
of anti Semitism Charles and berg Head Reford. But what
(12:02):
we're seeing today is actually, in part, maybe a large
part of product of a very effective propaganda campaign funded
by Katar, funded by Hamas, funded by foreign terrorists, who
deliberately said, let's focus on especially college campuses and the
most elite campuses. And so for twenty plus years you've
had the BDS movement, which stands for boycott, to vest
(12:25):
and sanction, and even before October seventh, after October SEVENTHS
took off, but they've been planning seeds for twenty years.
So every year you go to college campuses and the campaign,
the drumbeat is, you know, Israel's an apartheid nation, singling
at Israel. Now, what about all the Muslim countries that
surround Israel, where Jews and Christians aren't allowed to worship,
(12:48):
much less live free lives. But this campaign singles at Israel.
It's been calling Israel a genocidal state for twenty years,
notwithstanding that the population of Gaza had been going up
during that time, which if Israel's genocidal, it's pretty pathetic
and ineffective at doing so. And so the BDS movement
is this propaganda campaign. What we saw right after October
(13:12):
seventh was student groups armed with toolkits, literally ready on
October eighth to start protests. And as you said, why
is it that people are able to be susceptible to this?
It's baffling and frustrating. But I had a college classmate
of mine on our Facebook page post on October ninth.
(13:35):
So this is before Israel has mobilized to do any
kind of response to October seventh. On October ninth, there's
no military response. Israel still collecting the smoldering bodies and
trying to figure out where the hostages went. And this
classmate of mine posts Israel's about to commit genocide. So
the facts don't matter, Dan, The fact don't matter. What
(13:56):
is Israel. They've already written the narrative. Whatever Israel had done,
let's call it a genocide. And of course it's multiplied
when social media and even mainstream media spread this. And
just a quick example, you may remember early on in
the war, the conflict, which by the way, we all
pray for peace. My wife is from Israel. All of
(14:17):
our friends Jewish, Israeli, American care about innocent Palestinians. We
don't want war over there. Worse terrible, it's awful. But
early on in the war, in the conflict, there's this
explosive story that Israel had bombed and exploded a hospital,
and it went viral and all these people immediately posting
on social media how terrible that Israel had committed this
(14:38):
awf lack. It turned out, and people figured out less
than a day that Israel didn't bomb the hospital. It
was blown up by an errant Hamas missile. But by
that point it's too late. You've had a day of
all this exaggeration. The corrections that are run are on
page six and so short answering your question is a
lot of it's propaganda, and it's a campaign that very effective.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Well, when.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
When people compared Israel to apartheid South Africa. I wanted
to scream, you know, have they have they looked at
the makeup of the Knesset, the members of the Kanesset
who are not Jewish in fact are Arab. Have they
looked at, you know, Israel taking in Ethiopian Jews historically?
(15:24):
I mean, there's just so many examples that people are
unaware of. And I do believe that a lot of
this goes back to the days of Occupy Wall Street,
at least the recent incarnation of this. I remember we
had a SoundBite from a woman who was a teacher
(15:46):
in the Los Angeles School District. Rob. I don't know
if you still have that sound bite available, but it was.
It's a frightening SoundBite, and the frightening aspect of it
was not only what she said, but the way in
which she said it was so blatant. She's speaking to
a camera, a network camera, full face view. Do you
(16:09):
have that, rub Okay, let me play this for you, Dave.
This is Occupy Wall Street out of Los Angeles circa
twenty ten. In twenty eleven, and this is when I
really got the first whiff of anti Semitism coming from
the left side of the spectrum. Get your reaction to this,
(16:29):
go ahead, rub aim an affiliation Patrician McAllister.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
I'm here representing myself, but I do work for the
Los Angeles Unified School District, and I think that the
Zionist Jews who are running these big banks in our
federal reserve, which is not run by the federal government,
they need to be run out of this country.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I was shocked, and we've kept that SoundBite, Dave. I
don't know if you've ever heard that one before, but
this was at the time of the Occupy Wall Street
madness ten twenty eleven, and all of a sudden, these
old tropes just bubbled up to the surface for nowhere.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
It shocked me.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, I think then that you're probably right with some
of these roots, but I feel like it's now taken
several steps further. And our commission spent a lot of
time talking to witnesses and looking at evidence about K
through twelve schools here, and we talked a little bit
about some of the members of Maths Teachers Association and
what they've done, and it's actually much worse than those tropes.
(17:39):
It actually has now veered into explicit glorification and justification
of violence and mass murder. And so I'll give you
a couple quick examples. The first date that our commission
met was October twenty twenty four, and I was wearing
one of those yellow ribbon pins that we wore because
Hamas was holding hostages Israeli on American hostages. So after
(18:03):
the hearing, a woman who's one of the leaders of JVP,
the Boston chapter of JVP, comes up to me and
she says, but JVP fans for Jewish voices for peace,
and they're certainly not truly for peace. They are a
strikingly radical anti Israel group. And she says, what's this
(18:24):
pin for. I say, well, I'm wearing this to remember
and think about and call for the release of the
Israeli and American people, innocent, young people and old people, babies,
elderly being held hostage by the Hamas terrorists. And she
cuts me off. They're not terrorists, it's justified resistance. And
so here she's telling me that the atrocity is the
(18:45):
worst murder of Jews since the Holocaust. Wasn't terrorism, it's
justified resistance. And then you fast forward to the NASS
teachers Association, where members of the not the whole union,
but some members sent us a letter to the Commission
saying that we were wrong to show revolutionary posters of
militant people who want to kill Jews because they have
(19:07):
the right to justify resistance. And what's troubling is that
it's become so normalized that we hear this rhetoric and
we kind of move on without paying attention to or
condemning it. And so, Dan, what shocks me. Two weeks ago,
I think you probably saw this here in Boston on
Boylston Street, copy place, at the site of the marathon
(19:28):
bombing where in twenty thirteen a couple of radicalized people
blew up innocent civilians, Americans. This wasn't an anti Semitic attack.
It was an anti American attack at the marathon bombing site.
Two weeks ago, you've got these anti Israel protesters chanting
there is only one solution into fada, revolution and chanting
(19:49):
globalized the into Fada. Now. I've studied the Intafada, but
my wife lived in Israel through it, and you know
what the end offada was. The Intafada was pizza parlors
being blown up, children's limbs flying through the air, school
buses and buses being exploded, people's private homes being firebombed.
(20:10):
Into FADA was terrorism. So we've now had people at
a sight of domestic terrorism here in Boston chanting globalizing
into fada. Now do they all know what FADA means?
Some of them probably don't know what it means, and
they're just, you know, they think that it's cool to
be able to post on social media that they were
doing it, But it's very dangerous and it's actually much
(20:31):
worse than Occupy Wall Street in that respect.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
No, I'd just say that, and then the people who
were who were chanting from the River to the sea,
all that means is eliminate Israel. Do I think that
all of the protesters who were protest, who were chanting
from the River to the sea knew what the implications
of that were. No, But how how do they find
themselves entrapped as participants where they're mouthing platitudes that are
(20:58):
devastatingly harmed and hurtful to other people, but they don't
even understand that. Dave Frieman, we got to take a
quick break for the newscast. Here we have some callers
coming in. We're going to get to them, uh uh
and continue this conversation. I think it's just an important conversation.
I believe that anti Semitism is it appeals to the
(21:23):
worst instinct. I mean historically, you know these are people
who deny the existence of the Holocaust. And anyway, I
don't want to go on. You're the person who has
studied this much more than I have, and I want
to hear more from you and from our callers. If
you'd like to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
(21:44):
If you don't think this is important, you're dead wrong.
You're dead wrong. This is a vitally important subject. We've
visited it many times, and we're going to stick with
this tonight. I hope some of the callers will join
the conversation. I have Harvey Silver Glead of Waits, as
does Stephen Cambridge. We'll be and this room for you.
If you've never called before, now is the time. Silence
(22:08):
can be interpreted by some as tacit approval. Don't be
silent never again. Six one seven, two thirty six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty back on Night's Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
With Me's attorney, Dave Freeman.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
He has just finished a year long role as a
member of the Massachusetts Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
He was one of the.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Two appointees to this commission, which I think you had
in total about fifteen members, if if I'm not mistaken
the total number of members, but two members who were
appointed by the governor, and you were.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
One of them.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Uh, let's let's get to phone calls, Dave and see
what people say. I want to start off with a
great friend of mine and the friend of this program,
Harvey Silvergle Harvey, you are on with Dave Friedman. So
I'm going to listen to the two great lawyers discuss this,
and I'm going to sit back and keep quiet. Go
right ahead, Harvey.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
Okay. My position, I'm one of the Semites who's the
object of the anti Semites. By the way, my position
is that anti Semitism, like any other irrational hatred, cannot
be eradicated. That the job we have is not to
(23:35):
change the hearts and minds of the anti Semites. That
is impossible. The task before us is to prevent that
anti Semitism from eventuating into violence. I've said this before,
I think on this program. I was a Jewish student
(23:57):
of Princeton in nineteen sixty before when they were about
a dozen Jews in the class of five hundred and
vial anti semitism. Every Jew in the class was graduated
first in his in his high school. And my position
(24:28):
was then and remains that as long as they don't
touch me, they can call me what they want. And
I actually found it useful to know who hated me
and who didn't. So I'm a free speech absolutist, and
I believe that people should be allowed to express their
(24:49):
hatreds verbally, and that has a great social purpose because
it tells you, it tells the object of the hatred, who,
who hates who hates you?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, let's get let's get Dave to respond to that, Harvey.
I intellectually I understand that Dave your reaction to Harvey's
argument on both you know, legally, constitutionally and also from
a practical point of view.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, thank you and thank you Harvey. I have a
few things to say in Harvey, of course, is a
very well known First Amendment advocate. The Special Commission made
very clear that the Massachusetts approach to combating anti Semitism
respects the First Amendment, and we're not calling for any
kind of censorship. And so to that extent, we certainly agree,
I disagree that you can't change some hearts and minds.
(25:41):
And there's been a lot of survey data done. Now.
The Blue Square Alliance, which is the craft organization that
used to be called Foundation to Combat Anti Semitism, has
done a lot of survey works of other organizations, and
what they've consistently found is what jives with what I
see when I go to campuses. For instance, I teach
a as at Harvard Laws, so I'm a member the faculty.
(26:02):
There's probably that a ten percent of people who you
could say they truly are haters, they harbor real hatred
in their heart. But then there's a lot of people
who engage in conduct which is offensive or biased or troubling,
who are ignorant and with a better understanding, whether it's
(26:23):
Holocaust education or exposure, might just pause and say, wait
a second, I have not been looking at this the
right way. Violence absolutely is a problem, and unfortunately it's
on the rise, and Massachusetts now with five percent of
its population as Jews, eighty five percent of reported hate
(26:44):
crimes based on religion. We're targeting Jews. So I think
that what we have here is a genuine crisis. And
I'll just add one thing, which is, yes, we need
to focus on ways to curtail violence.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
But almost as bad as the violence is the racism
and exclusion and harassment that Jews and especially Israelis have
seen in the last couple of years. And here's just
one shocking statistic, which I think is extraordinarily troubling. And
it's different from when I went to Harvard back in
the nineteen nineties. Professor Aton Hirsch, a brilliant professor, has
(27:19):
done some survey work. In twenty twenty four, he asked
for US students on college campuses, non Jewish students. He
asked the question, would you be friends with someone who
supports the existence of Israel as a Jewish state? Not
do you support every action of the Israeli government. You
support the existence of Israel, would you be friends with
(27:41):
that person? Because most Jews do support the existence of Israel.
Twenty percent, one in five said no. I wouldn't be
friends with someone supports Israel's existence. Another forty five percent
said they weren't sure. And when I see that answer,
I think it probably means nah, I've got a problem
with that, or at least I have to think about it.
(28:03):
So if two of three non Jewish students in America
aren't sure or not willing to be friends with someone
who believes in Israel's existence, that's a pretty big problem.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
However, your comment, well, I can see his point of view.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Again, he's not talking about penalizing people for saying. Look,
there was the professor from Cornell I forget what his
name was, and in the wake of what happened on
October seventh, he said that he was exhilarated. Now that
guy's still teaching at Cornell, as I understand it, he
was exhilarated by that massacre, that slaughter. How can you
be a professor at Cornell University and even articulate those
(28:51):
words in relation to what happened on October seventh.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
Academic freedom, well, you could articulate, I mean, if physically
you can articulate those words, stay at academic freedom, But
from a from an ethical or a moral a moral
point of view, How can you believe in.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
In your articulation of those words. People could say anything
they want, but.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
We have a we have a right to criticize and
comment on such people. But I do think that it's
not an excuse for attempting to fire somebody.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, my of the question is if I was a
Jewish student in that class, or if my my son
and daughter were Jewish students in that class, would they
be treated fairly by that professor who says he was
exhilarated by that. I mean, I'm just using that as
one example, that's all. I'm not going to beat a
dead horse on it. But Harvey, as always, you are
one of my my most challenging callers and one of
(29:47):
my best friends. So thank you for joining us tonight.
Thank you so much as always.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Right, oh, all right, thanks, we'll be back.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I got Steven Cambridge and Steven Topshill coming up. My
guest is Dave Friedman. He was a member of the
Special Commission here at Massachusetts and combating anti Semitism. We'll
be back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Back to the phones, you go. Let me go to
Steven Cambridge. Steve, welcome, you are next on Nightside with the.
Speaker 8 (30:18):
True Good Evening, Dave Dave. I think on college campuses
for about the last twenty years or thirty years, there's
been kind of this genesis of this anti colonialism, and
they feel that the British Empire and America and Europeans
(30:39):
and white people in general are racist, exploitive, and genocidal.
So I don't think this has been something that's been
funded by Hamas to target Israel. It's a much more
sweeping type of condemnation of Western society, of which they
think Israel is an example.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Thanks Steve. I agree with that. And actually the Hamas
funded propaganda, which is also a verified fact, feeds into
what you're talking about. And that's what's so clever about
it is there's these phrases that are being used to
demonize Israel that are tested and they say, okay, well
this is going to feed into Americans perception and the left.
(31:24):
You know, they don't like apartheid, so let's use that phrase.
They don't like the colonialism of the West, so let's
say that Israel is a settlar, clonalist nation and You're
absolutely right, and of course you can teach history in
a very slanted way where the Holocaust is not relevant
to the founding of Israel. Of course, we know that
the reason Israel was created as was a Palestinian state
(31:47):
in nineteen forty eight was an immediate response to the Holocaust.
So I think that your point.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
As well taken.
Speaker 8 (31:54):
One other point, I am a supporter of Israel, and
I find I can't I can't talk to anybody because
either the people I know are such strong supporters of
Israel that any criticism of Israel is deemed anti Semitism,
and I know the other people who any kind of
defense of Israel at all is met with just frightful response.
(32:16):
But the other day in the newspaper it said that
at this point in Gaza, seventy thousand people have been killed.
How does how do you respond to that you, personally.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Dave, Yeah, I mean a couple of things. I mean,
the Anti Semitism Commission's focus wasn't on Middle East policy,
and you know, our focus ended up getting into Israel
issues because there's a huge difference between criticizing the actions
or policies of an Israeli government and going further and
(32:52):
saying the whole nation isn't legitimate from the river to
the sea, we should eliminate it. So that's one answer
is you can bemoan the war and what's happened, but
also understand that Israel is legitimate and that there's a
line with respect to your question. More pointedly, I don't
trust the figures that Hamas uses for deaths. Why would
(33:14):
we trust anything they say? And now I'm just speaking
on my own behalf, not on behalf of the Commission.
You know, there's a lot of dead people in Gaza,
and that's a tragedy. It was a tragedy that was
started by Hamas on October seventh, and thank goodness, there's
a ceasefire in place now and we pray for a
future where there can be more peace. But I'm glad
(33:37):
you raised the question in this sense. One of the
challenges that our Commission faced was there are some Jewish people,
mostly left wing Jews, who consider themselves anti Zionists. They
may not favor a two state solution, and our Commission
went out of our way to try to hear them
and say there is room for good faith sincere discussion
(33:59):
on these issue there's room in good faith to say,
you know, wouldn't it be nice for people in the
area that's now Israel to all live in peace and
not have two states. That's very different from the violent
thro Haamas propaganda that's out there. And most Jews when
they hear chance like globalizing in Tofado or from the
(34:20):
river to sea, find that offensive and traumatic. But if
you're being thoughtful and responsible and even nuanced about it,
then sure some people when they want to have these
discussions that Israel, there is room for that good faith dialogue,
and we try to recognize that as a commission.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Steve is always thank you for the very thoughtful questions
of gone.
Speaker 8 (34:39):
And thank you, Thank you, David, have a great night.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Let me go to another Steve. This one is in Topsfield.
Steven Topsfield, next on nice side with Attorney Dave Friedman.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Go ahead, Steve, Hey, Dave, how are you.
Speaker 6 (34:53):
Great?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
How are you good?
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Good?
Speaker 6 (34:55):
Hey?
Speaker 9 (34:56):
Hey Davey. You know what's interesting that that last you know,
speaker hit at one point the thing I wanted to
discuss was the civilian casualties that are taking place in
this war, and it's huge between Hamas Palestinian people. What happened,
(35:17):
you know, Ober and whatnot. But there there's a huge
amount of casualties on the population of Palestine, and I
just wanted to kind of get your comments on that.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I think Steve, without being redundant, I think he just
did comment on that.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Is there another question.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I'm glad to answer that too, but go ahead. I'll
just qut no, no, I can you know? Yeah, a
number one civilian casualties in war. Again, it's a tragedy.
It's something that I personally think is awful. A lot
of the tragedy is that Hamas uses people as human shields.
This has been documented for a long time. There have
(35:59):
been studies, including the West Point expert who found that
the ratio of civilian to Milton casualties was actually lower
than in other conflicts. And you know, when the West
was combating Adolf Hitler and we had the bomb Dresden
and do other things and kill a lot of civilians,
that was terrible. A lot of innocent people died. No
(36:20):
one said the United States was committing genocide and that
isn't genocide. So you know, there's a difference in language matters.
There's a difference between saying this is a terrible war.
It shouldn't have been necessary. We're you know, torn about it,
and we wish it was less civilian casualty. No one's
celebrating that on my household. But there's a difference between
(36:41):
that and saying, oh, Israel's committing genocide. So anyway, Dan,
I think he wanted to move on to the next.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Yeah, No, I just want to say, I think that's great. No,
I appreciate that comment on that, you know, and that's
what's happened. But anyway, I just wanted to get some
feedback a night on the right.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Thank you, Steve, appreciate your call. Didn't mean to interrupt you.
Let me go quickly. Ruth is in Brookline. Ruth, I
got about thirty second. You've called really late. Is there
anything you'd like to ask or comments you'd like to know?
Speaker 6 (37:13):
What?
Speaker 10 (37:14):
The one comment I'd like to make is was noted
in the beginning. This report contains many very important recommendations,
but they're all basically voluntary, and I think it's like
really important if maybe Dave could address you know, what
the public who's concerned about seeing the report actually being implemented,
(37:36):
like what people who care can do at this point, Okay,
get a difference.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
We're just tight on time here, Ruth Dave. What can
folks do at this point who either want to see
the report and read it themselves or hopefully advocate for
the implementation of some of the suggestions.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Sure, a great question. The reports available on the Special
Commission website, which you can google, and there's something that
everyone can do, whether it's talking to your school district
and saying these are good recommendations that we should follow,
or talking to your elected officials. We've been hardened that
Governor Heally and Lieutenant Governor Driscoll and Attorney General Campbell
and many other leaders have supported our recommendations, and ultimately
(38:17):
it comes down to a lot of collective action. And
I want to add something. I mean, Dan, thank you
for focusing on the unique crisis of antisemitism. It's unique,
it requires special attention. We had a commission just about it,
and at the same time, so much of our report
involved measures that actually combat all forms of hate. And
(38:38):
you'll see when we're calling for ways to improve protocols
for dealing with incidents or having better dialogue, these are
things that also are important to addressing anti LGBTQ plus hate,
anti black racism, so it's not just anti semitism that
we're trying to fix.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
All right, Ruth, good question.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Hopefully folks can get that report, get access to it,
and as Ruth suggested, take some action on it. Ruth,
thank you very much for your call. Dave Friedman, thank
you very much for your call, for your time tonight,
I should say, and your analysis for us, and go
get us a right handed hitter for the Red Sox.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Will you we need a first baseman.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Thanks Dan. You know there is hope. There's hope when
it comes to baseball. As I said, there's hope on
these issues. There's a lot of support. I'm grateful with
Governor Heally putting me on this commission, and I'm grateful
to you for just paying attention to the issue.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Pleasure. Thanks Dave.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
We'll talk again, okay, anytime.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
We'll have you back.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Well, we get back on the other side of the
ten o'clock news. We're going to talk about fifty year mortgages,
a new mortgage vehicle,
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