December 18, 2025 • 25 mins
December ’41 is a historical thriller that takes place in the first weeks of the Second World War and takes the reader on a journey across the U.S. on a manhunt for a German agent who’s planning to kill FDR on the night he lights the National Christmas Tree. Boston based author William Martin joined Dan to discuss his riveting new novel!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Ray on WVS, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am delighted to welcome back to Night's Side, William Miller,
William Martin. Excuse me, William martinh an author of renown.
I think most people who read or read books.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
No, Bill Martin, graduate of Catholic Memorial Harvard College, went
on and studied film at USC. We are obviously in
the middle of a very interesting evening with all of
the police activity. But my suspicion is that we will
certainly be able to get our hour in with my
guest Bill Martin, William Martin. But if we have to
(00:47):
break away, if there's some immediate development, I hope all
of you as well as my guests will understand that
Bill Martin, Welcome to Nightside. Welcome back. How are you, sir, Dan?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I'm great? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Just fine? Better to have you here. We spent Saturday
evening I had the honor of introducing you, and you
delivered just an amazing presentation on your book December of
forty one or December forty one. I'd just like to
go through some of the books that you've written over
the years, because what amazes me is that you have
(01:21):
been able to craft a career as a writer, and
there are very few people who are able to do that.
You've produced a series of books that your readers know
as the Peter Fallon series, starting with Back Bay in
nineteen seventy nine, Harvard Yard, The Lost Constitution, City of Dreams,
(01:42):
The Lincoln Letter, Bound for Gold. You wrote a book
called A Life in an Ivory Tower in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
That one's not me.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I've written twelve novels, the Peter Fallon books that you've referenced,
and then a series of other, as we say in
the business, standalone novels that aren't part of a series.
But you know, there are a lot of William Martin's
out there, and a lot of them write books. And
I am given the credit or the blame for those books.
(02:21):
Uh you know? And you know that includes books ranging
from well these were titles like The Rise of the
Religious Right to My Prostate and Me. All of these
have been written by guys named William Martin and I
get letters, or or The Tow of Raising Children and
(02:47):
I get letters, and I have to tell these people,
now you got the wrong guy. I'm just I'm just
the entertainer. I'm the one that tells you, not in
novel form, about the history of the United States.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
All right, well that's I'm looking at it. The other
books that I know you've written, that one was one
that I was unfamiliar with. But I thought, well maybe
he now no one's writing you and I hope mixing
you up with Billy Martin, the former manager of the Yankees,
and asking you what what was said actually in Fenway
(03:23):
in the dugout of Fenway Park between you and Reggie Jackson.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
And Reggie Jackson I remember that moment. You know, you
and I are among the few people who would remember
that moment. So the other night, the other night, we
had some very good fifties red Sox coot going on.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, no, people would be looking at us like saying,
who is Pete Daily? And both of us knew who
Pete Daily was. But the other book's The Rising of
the Moon Cape Cod, which of course is a great book.
Annapolis Nerve Endings, Citizen in Washington and now December of
forty one, and I thought that the speech that you
gave the other night, and I had the honor of
(04:00):
introducing you at the Clover Club, the thought that the
theme that you had was that it was eighty four
Decembers ago if you were nineteen forty one, and as
bad as many people find this December and we're watching
play out on television tonight, this this horrific story that
(04:22):
started at Brown University now apparently is leading to the
murder of a professor in Brookline. We were never we
were never at a lower point than December of.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Nineteen forty one, Probably not when you consider the shock
of the bombing of Pearl Harbor for most Americans who
had spent the previous ten years crawling out of the
depression to suddenly have the war thrust upon them. And yet,
(04:57):
and yet Roosevelt had been preparing us for or he
had done his best to help the British, who needed
all the help they could get in their resistance to
the Nazis, particularly before the Nazis invaded Russia in June
(05:19):
of nineteen forty one, six months earlier. But Americans had
to be observant of what was going on in the
rest of the world and hoping that they wouldn't get
involved with it, on the one hand, but knowing that
it was inevitable. Consider the way that the world worked.
(05:42):
I opened in one of the versions of that book.
I opened it with a kind of a newsreel taking
you around the globe, showing you the Japanese assaulting the
Chinese in Manchuria in December of nineteen forty one, and
(06:03):
then traveling out toward the west, toward Moscow, where the
Germans had reached to within sight of the city of
Moscow before the Russians had finally launched a counter assault
that had driven the Germans back. The Nazis were ascended
(06:23):
across Europe, and then I stopped in England, which was
surrounded by the German U boats, finally dropped down to
where FDR was preparing his Day of Infamy speech, and
that was where I decided, ultimately to open the book.
Because what Roosevelt provided on December eighth and in subsequent
(06:47):
months with his fireside chats and his other speeches was
tremendous leadership. He told he did not tell the American
people everything on December eighth, but he told them enough
and inspired immediate commitment from everybody across every political party.
(07:12):
You know, America First, the first version of America First,
had been founded in the thirties and had done rather
well as an isolationist organization. They dissolved themselves on December eighth,
nineteen forty one. They completely closed their doors and ended
business because now we were all united by a common threat,
(07:36):
and FDR did a great job of reminding us of that.
On December eighth, nineteen forty one, one of the darkest
mornings in our history. And yet, as I said the
other night to the group the other night, and as
I write in the book Action, the Action of that
(08:00):
of my novel, which is a suspense thriller about a
Nazi assassin who has to get from Los Angeles to
Washington to shoot FDR on the night that he likes
the National Christmas Tree on Christmas Eve. But I'm not
giving anything away to tell you that he is going
to be stopped by Americans who find it within themselves
(08:23):
to do things that they might never have thought that
they were capable of. And that's what happened with the
whole country once that war started. And that's the hopeful
aspect of December forty one. It was a dark Christmas,
but we rose out of it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Well.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
The thing that's always interesting is that when you do
the math World War II from December forty one to
August of forty five, and knowing what.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Three and a half years I mean, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I'm doing my math correctly, a little more than three
and a half three three and a half plus years.
But world wars on fronts in Africa, Europe, as China,
BREHM in India, UH, in the Atlantic, and we were
able to pull that off. Now, the last war that
we've had is the war in the Middle East, which
(09:11):
has gone on now for twenty years. The UH. It's
it's an entirely different theory, I guess, and we just
came together as a nation. What I want to do is,
I'm going to open up phone lines. I'll tell you
that we're also being told in my ear that there
may be a press conference making and some announcements on
(09:32):
this in down in Rhode Island. Okay, if we have
to break for that, I will beg your indulgence and
we will. But we will then finish up later on
or I will we can pick this up tomorrow night.
This is a huge news story. But at the same time,
you're an important guest to me, and sometimes guests have
(09:56):
to have to stand aside for the breaking news but
I know you above all, you know you will understand that,
and I apologize for that in advance. But oftentimes when
they say there'll be a news conference at nine thirty,
well that's you can be sure it'll be ten thirty then.
So I've been through enough of these in my career,
so we'll keep we'll keep our eye on it in
the meantime. And if you'd like to talk with Bill Martin.
(10:18):
William Martin, the author of so many great books. Here again,
he's someone who writes historical novels. These are these are
history lessons, but there there is the story that he
has to craft in order to bring that history lesson
to life, and he does it magnificently well in all
of his books. If you're a William Martin fan and
(10:38):
you'd like to stop by and say hello, six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one, ten thirty.
We're balancing some interest here, but we have one of
the most interesting guests I could imagine, someone who knows
how to write books. He learned it at Catholic Memorial
and of course a little bit at Harvard as well.
(11:00):
But your English teachers at Catholic memorial must be very
proud that that student from the mid nineteen sixties went
on to have the career in literature that you've had.
We'll be back with William Martin. Maybe some phone calls
and some more conversation six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six, one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty Nightside
with Dan Ray.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
CBS News is now reporting that the Brown University shooting
suspect found dead in New Hampshire. According to sources, the
suspect in the December thirteenth mass shooting on the campus
of Brown University has been found dead in a storage
unit in Salem, New Hampshire. Sources have told CBS News
the shooting killed two students and moved to nine others.
Multiple sources familiar with the investigation have told CBS News
(11:49):
early Thursday that a person of interests have been identified
into shooting. Law enforcement is investigating possible connections between the
Brown University shooting and the December fifteenth shooting death of
forty seven year old Nuno Lurero, an MIT professor at
his home in Brookline, Massachusetts. Multiple sources have told CBS
News the Brown shooting occurred in the school's Embarrassed and
(12:11):
Holly Engineering building during final exams. The shooting took place
in the first floor classroom where students were taking part
in the study session. So at this point we now
are looking that we have a conclusion to this story.
This shooter, this coward who walked into a classroom at
Brown and indiscriminately killed two and wounded nine, has proven
(12:32):
himself to be the coward that he is and did
not surrender to police, but took his own life. Bill Martin,
we're going to continue with you, and as they say,
if this news conference comes along, I got a bunch
of people want to talk to you, and so let's
go immediately to callers, and we're going to also talk
about I just think the December forty one book is
(12:53):
an amazing book for those of us who enjoy history,
and it also gives such hope to all of us.
Go first to David, did you make a plane? David?
You were on with William Martin, the author of so
many great books, many of which are based here in
New England. You're next. Your first is Houray Nights Side.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
David Oh, well, thank you, thank you, And it's incredible
to speak to a talent. You know, I wish I
knew you were better, so you would be my brush
with greatness, you know. I mean, You're.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I taplay that world tonight.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
We do bill on Friday nights. Occasionally we do your
brush with Celebrity, and I think that's what David is
referring to. But go right ahead, David, You're getting a
chance to talk to William Martin that very few people
would get you. Go right ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, I just think that, you know, if you can
capture when we weren't, when we weren't fat and soft
in this country, you know what I mean, when men
were men, you know what I mean, it's just uh, incredible, incredible.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Well, well, one of the things, one of the things
is that I try to get across to you in
all of my historical fiction, and it's really why we
read historical fiction is to see people that that are
just like us, really, who rise to the occasion in
ways that I think all of us would or will
(14:23):
rise to the occasion if we are ever called upon
to do so. We might think we're fat and soft,
but I don't really think so. Hitler made that I.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Mean, there are there are heroes among us that we
don't even know of, you know what I mean, that's
what that's what defines. That's what defines to me a
man or a woman that rises to the occasion. It
is a hero standing right, that's you like that guy
that grabbed the shooter in Australia. I mean, I mean
(14:56):
talk to me about I mean, I know that I
was a little bit what do they call that when
you say something extraordinary or outlandish or whatever I believe
or something. Yeah, we're not that soft, but we are
capable of.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
The Germans did not really understand that. Uh And and
it was one of the reasons that Hitler felt just
perfectly comfortable on Thursday, December eleventh, just four days after
Pearl Harbor uh In declaring war in the United States.
(15:31):
It wasn't Roosevelt who declared war, it was it was Hitler,
and he felt that and his general staff was was
shocked that he did it because they had no plan
for fighting the industrial colossus on the other side of
the Atlantic. And he thought that Americans were soft. And
(15:52):
yet when if you go back and look at how
Americans responded to the calls of Roosevelt to a sacrifice. We,
even on the home front, did more sacrificing than the
Germans did at the beginning of World War Two.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well, I thank you, well, I thank you for turning
the clock back and letting us look at that through
your words and in your book.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I just want to add, David, I just want to
add one thing to what Bill said. Hitler should have
learned about the strength of America at the nineteen thirty
six Berlin Olympics when Jesse Owens embarrassed him in the world.
And to carry on your thought, David, that people rise
to the occasion. We were talking the other night before
(16:40):
this dinner about a long forgotten Red Sox catcher named
Pete Day when William Martin, as a young lad, attended
his first Major League baseball game at Fenway Park. Bill
tell that story. Who rose to the occasion that day
for the Red Sox. It wasn't Ted Williams.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Go ahead, Willim, It wasn't Ted Williams. It was Pete Daly,
who hit a three run home runs from the Red
Sox to defeat the Baltimore Orioles in some game in
the summer of nineteen fifty seven. I was about seven.
I was seven years old when I saw that game,
and I still remember it.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, And the point is that you we expected well
who hit the three run home run? Ted Williams man
Jackie Jensen? Who knows? But if I think brun Stevens
was no longer with them, but here's the backup catcher
who he put the ball up where they had the
luxury seats now and back in those days, it was
simply a big net.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It was the net.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think I think he might have been a communist.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I don't think so. Thanks Pete. I'd rather thank thank you,
David talk.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So you got it, my friend, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
All right, let me try to get one more caller
in here for William Martin, and if we have to
take the news conference, we can take. We will take
the news conference in time. But let me go next
to the phone lines have just blown up here for you,
mister Martin. Now you've got a lot of fans out there.
This is Pete in South Carolina. Pete, you're on with
William Martin right ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Dan. I don't know how you do it, but every
time you you always get great guests. And mister Martin
I read some of your books. I am a fan
of World War Two. I am already ready to buy
December forty one, and maybe you could follow it up
with May of forty two for those of you who
(18:37):
know their history, they know it well, yeah, and June
of forty two.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
But d you mean the Battle of Midway?
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Absolutely well, you go back, if you go back in
my in my canon, you will find that in a
novel called Annapolis, which I published in nineteen ninety six,
I write about the Battle of Midway.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
So I will go back and reread it, and.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
For that for that which, which, by the way, for
anybody that's interested in military history of any kind, is
one of the most amazing battles you could ever study,
because of all of the little the what ifs. You know,
what if the Japanese scout plane had been able to
(19:30):
land at French frigate showals, et cetera, et cetera. We
can go on and on and on with things that
most of the listeners right now wouldn't even know about.
But but it's a it's a battle filled with with
tiny twists. And you know, there's a great line in Shakespeare,
A horse, a horse my kingdom for a horse. Well,
the Japanese admirals made a lot of calls during that
(19:55):
battle that requirt that would have led them to hope
for a another horse in the middle of that.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Right, Okay, I'll have to go back and read it.
But Dan, you caught me off guard again. You've got
a great guest, and I'm looking forward to reading the book.
And I know other people are waiting, and you've got
the news seed coming in. So Dan and Bill have
a happy holiday and a Mary Chris you.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Right, thank you so much, Thank you, take care, bye bye.
All right. What I would like to do Rob here
is I'm going to hold off on the news because
at some point we're gonna have to take this news conference.
If that's my call, I'll stand by it. If that's okay,
I want to accommodate the callers here. Okay, let me
go next to George Is in Bridgewater. Hey, George, you're
(20:46):
on with William Martin.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
Hey, how you doing Dan and William? George? Oh good, great, William.
I have a question. I studied World War II history.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
I watched probably a thousand videos, but do you and
there's always been some talk about whether or not Roosevelt knew.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
About the attack on Pearl Harbor. You what's your feeling
about that. Well, I've read, I've.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Read a lot of books about it, and I think
what what they knew was that something was up and
something was going to happen somewhere in the Pacific, and
they they had sent out bulletins to the commanders in
the Far Pacific, including MacArthur, saying something something's up. We
(21:39):
think it's going to happen in the Philippines. MacArthur should
have been more ready than he actually was, because eight
hours after the bombing of Pearl Harbor they hit the
Philippines and the planes were still on the ground in
the Philippines wingtip to wingtip. However, the suggestion that that
(21:59):
f knew that they were going to strike in the Hawaii,
I have always felt it's a little bit more than
I can swallow. First of all, what president is going
to weaken himself by destroying his Pacific fleet, basically by
(22:21):
allowing an enemy to destroy his whole left flank. The
the battleships were sunk at Pearl Harbor, though most of
them were all but two of them were raised and
used again. But I don't think Roosevelt fully understood that
(22:42):
the war in the Pacific in nineteen forty one to
forty five was going to be a war waged by
aircraft carriers, and yet all of our aircraft carriers were
not at Pearl Harbor. Did Roosevelt engineer that, I don't
think so. I think that was just it was good
(23:04):
luck on our part. Do you know if you go
to Pearl Harbor today, there is a monument on the
far side of Ford Island to the target ship, an
old battleship that had been turned into a target ship
called the Utah. It was at the ten ten dock,
as it was known. The Japanese flyers had been carefully trained.
(23:30):
Each of them had a task that day. One of
them was supposed to drop bombs on the Arizona, one
of them was supposed to run torpedoes at the Oklahoma,
and one of them was supposed to come around on
the other dock on the other side and fire all
of their torpedoes. One squadron into the vessel at the
(23:52):
ten ten dock, which normally was where the USS Enterprise,
the aircraft carrier, was normal, that's where it was moored,
but Japanese flyers came in and said, well, that ain't
no aircraft carrier, but we're gonna sink it anyway. So
they expected the carriers to be there. The carriers weren't there,
(24:14):
and that was a matter of luck for us, because
if the carriers had all been sunk at at Pearl Harbor,
the Battle of Midway, which we just referenced the moment ago,
never would have even been fought, you know. So that's
the long form answer. I don't think Roosevelt. Roosevelt wanted
(24:36):
us in the war. He knew we had to go
into the war, but I don't think he expected it
to happen like that.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Great George, welcome comes to Yeah, I probably don't it.
Buy that book, Dan, You have a very good all right.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
George, Merry Christmas. Okay, talk soon, Yeah, Bill Martin. The
group is assembling and is going to tell us what's
going on down in Rhode Island. So as much as
I would like to keep our conversation going, I'm gonna
let you off and let's maybe pick this up right
after the first of the year. If that's what been
with you, okay, I would love it, Dan, Thank you
(25:15):
very much. Bill Martin.
It's Nightside with Ray on WVS, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am delighted to welcome back to Night's Side, William Miller,
William Martin. Excuse me, William martinh an author of renown.
I think most people who read or read books.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
No, Bill Martin, graduate of Catholic Memorial Harvard College, went
on and studied film at USC. We are obviously in
the middle of a very interesting evening with all of
the police activity. But my suspicion is that we will
certainly be able to get our hour in with my
guest Bill Martin, William Martin. But if we have to
(00:47):
break away, if there's some immediate development, I hope all
of you as well as my guests will understand that
Bill Martin, Welcome to Nightside. Welcome back. How are you, sir, Dan?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I'm great? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Just fine? Better to have you here. We spent Saturday
evening I had the honor of introducing you, and you
delivered just an amazing presentation on your book December of
forty one or December forty one. I'd just like to
go through some of the books that you've written over
the years, because what amazes me is that you have
(01:21):
been able to craft a career as a writer, and
there are very few people who are able to do that.
You've produced a series of books that your readers know
as the Peter Fallon series, starting with Back Bay in
nineteen seventy nine, Harvard Yard, The Lost Constitution, City of Dreams,
(01:42):
The Lincoln Letter, Bound for Gold. You wrote a book
called A Life in an Ivory Tower in twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
That one's not me.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I've written twelve novels, the Peter Fallon books that you've referenced,
and then a series of other, as we say in
the business, standalone novels that aren't part of a series.
But you know, there are a lot of William Martin's
out there, and a lot of them write books. And
I am given the credit or the blame for those books.
(02:21):
Uh you know? And you know that includes books ranging
from well these were titles like The Rise of the
Religious Right to My Prostate and Me. All of these
have been written by guys named William Martin and I
get letters, or or The Tow of Raising Children and
(02:47):
I get letters, and I have to tell these people,
now you got the wrong guy. I'm just I'm just
the entertainer. I'm the one that tells you, not in
novel form, about the history of the United States.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
All right, well that's I'm looking at it. The other
books that I know you've written, that one was one
that I was unfamiliar with. But I thought, well maybe
he now no one's writing you and I hope mixing
you up with Billy Martin, the former manager of the Yankees,
and asking you what what was said actually in Fenway
(03:23):
in the dugout of Fenway Park between you and Reggie Jackson.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
And Reggie Jackson I remember that moment. You know, you
and I are among the few people who would remember
that moment. So the other night, the other night, we
had some very good fifties red Sox coot going on.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, no, people would be looking at us like saying,
who is Pete Daily? And both of us knew who
Pete Daily was. But the other book's The Rising of
the Moon Cape Cod, which of course is a great book.
Annapolis Nerve Endings, Citizen in Washington and now December of
forty one, and I thought that the speech that you
gave the other night, and I had the honor of
(04:00):
introducing you at the Clover Club, the thought that the
theme that you had was that it was eighty four
Decembers ago if you were nineteen forty one, and as
bad as many people find this December and we're watching
play out on television tonight, this this horrific story that
(04:22):
started at Brown University now apparently is leading to the
murder of a professor in Brookline. We were never we
were never at a lower point than December of.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Nineteen forty one, Probably not when you consider the shock
of the bombing of Pearl Harbor for most Americans who
had spent the previous ten years crawling out of the
depression to suddenly have the war thrust upon them. And yet,
(04:57):
and yet Roosevelt had been preparing us for or he
had done his best to help the British, who needed
all the help they could get in their resistance to
the Nazis, particularly before the Nazis invaded Russia in June
(05:19):
of nineteen forty one, six months earlier. But Americans had
to be observant of what was going on in the
rest of the world and hoping that they wouldn't get
involved with it, on the one hand, but knowing that
it was inevitable. Consider the way that the world worked.
(05:42):
I opened in one of the versions of that book.
I opened it with a kind of a newsreel taking
you around the globe, showing you the Japanese assaulting the
Chinese in Manchuria in December of nineteen forty one, and
(06:03):
then traveling out toward the west, toward Moscow, where the
Germans had reached to within sight of the city of
Moscow before the Russians had finally launched a counter assault
that had driven the Germans back. The Nazis were ascended
(06:23):
across Europe, and then I stopped in England, which was
surrounded by the German U boats, finally dropped down to
where FDR was preparing his Day of Infamy speech, and
that was where I decided, ultimately to open the book.
Because what Roosevelt provided on December eighth and in subsequent
(06:47):
months with his fireside chats and his other speeches was
tremendous leadership. He told he did not tell the American
people everything on December eighth, but he told them enough
and inspired immediate commitment from everybody across every political party.
(07:12):
You know, America First, the first version of America First,
had been founded in the thirties and had done rather
well as an isolationist organization. They dissolved themselves on December eighth,
nineteen forty one. They completely closed their doors and ended
business because now we were all united by a common threat,
(07:36):
and FDR did a great job of reminding us of that.
On December eighth, nineteen forty one, one of the darkest
mornings in our history. And yet, as I said the
other night to the group the other night, and as
I write in the book Action, the Action of that
(08:00):
of my novel, which is a suspense thriller about a
Nazi assassin who has to get from Los Angeles to
Washington to shoot FDR on the night that he likes
the National Christmas Tree on Christmas Eve. But I'm not
giving anything away to tell you that he is going
to be stopped by Americans who find it within themselves
(08:23):
to do things that they might never have thought that
they were capable of. And that's what happened with the
whole country once that war started. And that's the hopeful
aspect of December forty one. It was a dark Christmas,
but we rose out of it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Well.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
The thing that's always interesting is that when you do
the math World War II from December forty one to
August of forty five, and knowing what.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Three and a half years I mean, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I'm doing my math correctly, a little more than three
and a half three three and a half plus years.
But world wars on fronts in Africa, Europe, as China,
BREHM in India, UH, in the Atlantic, and we were
able to pull that off. Now, the last war that
we've had is the war in the Middle East, which
(09:11):
has gone on now for twenty years. The UH. It's
it's an entirely different theory, I guess, and we just
came together as a nation. What I want to do is,
I'm going to open up phone lines. I'll tell you
that we're also being told in my ear that there
may be a press conference making and some announcements on
(09:32):
this in down in Rhode Island. Okay, if we have
to break for that, I will beg your indulgence and
we will. But we will then finish up later on
or I will we can pick this up tomorrow night.
This is a huge news story. But at the same time,
you're an important guest to me, and sometimes guests have
(09:56):
to have to stand aside for the breaking news but
I know you above all, you know you will understand that,
and I apologize for that in advance. But oftentimes when
they say there'll be a news conference at nine thirty,
well that's you can be sure it'll be ten thirty then.
So I've been through enough of these in my career,
so we'll keep we'll keep our eye on it in
the meantime. And if you'd like to talk with Bill Martin.
(10:18):
William Martin, the author of so many great books. Here again,
he's someone who writes historical novels. These are these are
history lessons, but there there is the story that he
has to craft in order to bring that history lesson
to life, and he does it magnificently well in all
of his books. If you're a William Martin fan and
(10:38):
you'd like to stop by and say hello, six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one, ten thirty.
We're balancing some interest here, but we have one of
the most interesting guests I could imagine, someone who knows
how to write books. He learned it at Catholic Memorial
and of course a little bit at Harvard as well.
(11:00):
But your English teachers at Catholic memorial must be very
proud that that student from the mid nineteen sixties went
on to have the career in literature that you've had.
We'll be back with William Martin. Maybe some phone calls
and some more conversation six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six, one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty Nightside
with Dan Ray.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
CBS News is now reporting that the Brown University shooting
suspect found dead in New Hampshire. According to sources, the
suspect in the December thirteenth mass shooting on the campus
of Brown University has been found dead in a storage
unit in Salem, New Hampshire. Sources have told CBS News
the shooting killed two students and moved to nine others.
Multiple sources familiar with the investigation have told CBS News
(11:49):
early Thursday that a person of interests have been identified
into shooting. Law enforcement is investigating possible connections between the
Brown University shooting and the December fifteenth shooting death of
forty seven year old Nuno Lurero, an MIT professor at
his home in Brookline, Massachusetts. Multiple sources have told CBS
News the Brown shooting occurred in the school's Embarrassed and
(12:11):
Holly Engineering building during final exams. The shooting took place
in the first floor classroom where students were taking part
in the study session. So at this point we now
are looking that we have a conclusion to this story.
This shooter, this coward who walked into a classroom at
Brown and indiscriminately killed two and wounded nine, has proven
(12:32):
himself to be the coward that he is and did
not surrender to police, but took his own life. Bill Martin,
we're going to continue with you, and as they say,
if this news conference comes along, I got a bunch
of people want to talk to you, and so let's
go immediately to callers, and we're going to also talk
about I just think the December forty one book is
(12:53):
an amazing book for those of us who enjoy history,
and it also gives such hope to all of us.
Go first to David, did you make a plane? David?
You were on with William Martin, the author of so
many great books, many of which are based here in
New England. You're next. Your first is Houray Nights Side.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
David Oh, well, thank you, thank you, And it's incredible
to speak to a talent. You know, I wish I
knew you were better, so you would be my brush
with greatness, you know. I mean, You're.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I taplay that world tonight.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
We do bill on Friday nights. Occasionally we do your
brush with Celebrity, and I think that's what David is
referring to. But go right ahead, David, You're getting a
chance to talk to William Martin that very few people
would get you. Go right ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, I just think that, you know, if you can
capture when we weren't, when we weren't fat and soft
in this country, you know what I mean, when men
were men, you know what I mean, it's just uh, incredible, incredible.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Well, well, one of the things, one of the things
is that I try to get across to you in
all of my historical fiction, and it's really why we
read historical fiction is to see people that that are
just like us, really, who rise to the occasion in
ways that I think all of us would or will
(14:23):
rise to the occasion if we are ever called upon
to do so. We might think we're fat and soft,
but I don't really think so. Hitler made that I.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Mean, there are there are heroes among us that we
don't even know of, you know what I mean, that's
what that's what defines. That's what defines to me a
man or a woman that rises to the occasion. It
is a hero standing right, that's you like that guy
that grabbed the shooter in Australia. I mean, I mean
(14:56):
talk to me about I mean, I know that I
was a little bit what do they call that when
you say something extraordinary or outlandish or whatever I believe
or something. Yeah, we're not that soft, but we are
capable of.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
The Germans did not really understand that. Uh And and
it was one of the reasons that Hitler felt just
perfectly comfortable on Thursday, December eleventh, just four days after
Pearl Harbor uh In declaring war in the United States.
(15:31):
It wasn't Roosevelt who declared war, it was it was Hitler,
and he felt that and his general staff was was
shocked that he did it because they had no plan
for fighting the industrial colossus on the other side of
the Atlantic. And he thought that Americans were soft. And
(15:52):
yet when if you go back and look at how
Americans responded to the calls of Roosevelt to a sacrifice. We,
even on the home front, did more sacrificing than the
Germans did at the beginning of World War Two.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well, I thank you, well, I thank you for turning
the clock back and letting us look at that through
your words and in your book.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I just want to add, David, I just want to
add one thing to what Bill said. Hitler should have
learned about the strength of America at the nineteen thirty
six Berlin Olympics when Jesse Owens embarrassed him in the world.
And to carry on your thought, David, that people rise
to the occasion. We were talking the other night before
(16:40):
this dinner about a long forgotten Red Sox catcher named
Pete Day when William Martin, as a young lad, attended
his first Major League baseball game at Fenway Park. Bill
tell that story. Who rose to the occasion that day
for the Red Sox. It wasn't Ted Williams.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Go ahead, Willim, It wasn't Ted Williams. It was Pete Daly,
who hit a three run home runs from the Red
Sox to defeat the Baltimore Orioles in some game in
the summer of nineteen fifty seven. I was about seven.
I was seven years old when I saw that game,
and I still remember it.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, And the point is that you we expected well
who hit the three run home run? Ted Williams man
Jackie Jensen? Who knows? But if I think brun Stevens
was no longer with them, but here's the backup catcher
who he put the ball up where they had the
luxury seats now and back in those days, it was
simply a big net.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It was the net.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think I think he might have been a communist.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I don't think so. Thanks Pete. I'd rather thank thank you,
David talk.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So you got it, my friend, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
All right, let me try to get one more caller
in here for William Martin, and if we have to
take the news conference, we can take. We will take
the news conference in time. But let me go next
to the phone lines have just blown up here for you,
mister Martin. Now you've got a lot of fans out there.
This is Pete in South Carolina. Pete, you're on with
William Martin right ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Dan. I don't know how you do it, but every
time you you always get great guests. And mister Martin
I read some of your books. I am a fan
of World War Two. I am already ready to buy
December forty one, and maybe you could follow it up
with May of forty two for those of you who
(18:37):
know their history, they know it well, yeah, and June
of forty two.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
But d you mean the Battle of Midway?
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Absolutely well, you go back, if you go back in
my in my canon, you will find that in a
novel called Annapolis, which I published in nineteen ninety six,
I write about the Battle of Midway.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
So I will go back and reread it, and.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
For that for that which, which, by the way, for
anybody that's interested in military history of any kind, is
one of the most amazing battles you could ever study,
because of all of the little the what ifs. You know,
what if the Japanese scout plane had been able to
(19:30):
land at French frigate showals, et cetera, et cetera. We
can go on and on and on with things that
most of the listeners right now wouldn't even know about.
But but it's a it's a battle filled with with
tiny twists. And you know, there's a great line in Shakespeare,
A horse, a horse my kingdom for a horse. Well,
the Japanese admirals made a lot of calls during that
(19:55):
battle that requirt that would have led them to hope
for a another horse in the middle of that.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Right, Okay, I'll have to go back and read it.
But Dan, you caught me off guard again. You've got
a great guest, and I'm looking forward to reading the book.
And I know other people are waiting, and you've got
the news seed coming in. So Dan and Bill have
a happy holiday and a Mary Chris you.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Right, thank you so much, Thank you, take care, bye bye.
All right. What I would like to do Rob here
is I'm going to hold off on the news because
at some point we're gonna have to take this news conference.
If that's my call, I'll stand by it. If that's okay,
I want to accommodate the callers here. Okay, let me
go next to George Is in Bridgewater. Hey, George, you're
(20:46):
on with William Martin.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
Hey, how you doing Dan and William? George? Oh good, great, William.
I have a question. I studied World War II history.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
I watched probably a thousand videos, but do you and
there's always been some talk about whether or not Roosevelt knew.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
About the attack on Pearl Harbor. You what's your feeling
about that. Well, I've read, I've.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Read a lot of books about it, and I think
what what they knew was that something was up and
something was going to happen somewhere in the Pacific, and
they they had sent out bulletins to the commanders in
the Far Pacific, including MacArthur, saying something something's up. We
(21:39):
think it's going to happen in the Philippines. MacArthur should
have been more ready than he actually was, because eight
hours after the bombing of Pearl Harbor they hit the
Philippines and the planes were still on the ground in
the Philippines wingtip to wingtip. However, the suggestion that that
(21:59):
f knew that they were going to strike in the Hawaii,
I have always felt it's a little bit more than
I can swallow. First of all, what president is going
to weaken himself by destroying his Pacific fleet, basically by
(22:21):
allowing an enemy to destroy his whole left flank. The
the battleships were sunk at Pearl Harbor, though most of
them were all but two of them were raised and
used again. But I don't think Roosevelt fully understood that
(22:42):
the war in the Pacific in nineteen forty one to
forty five was going to be a war waged by
aircraft carriers, and yet all of our aircraft carriers were
not at Pearl Harbor. Did Roosevelt engineer that, I don't
think so. I think that was just it was good
(23:04):
luck on our part. Do you know if you go
to Pearl Harbor today, there is a monument on the
far side of Ford Island to the target ship, an
old battleship that had been turned into a target ship
called the Utah. It was at the ten ten dock,
as it was known. The Japanese flyers had been carefully trained.
(23:30):
Each of them had a task that day. One of
them was supposed to drop bombs on the Arizona, one
of them was supposed to run torpedoes at the Oklahoma,
and one of them was supposed to come around on
the other dock on the other side and fire all
of their torpedoes. One squadron into the vessel at the
(23:52):
ten ten dock, which normally was where the USS Enterprise,
the aircraft carrier, was normal, that's where it was moored,
but Japanese flyers came in and said, well, that ain't
no aircraft carrier, but we're gonna sink it anyway. So
they expected the carriers to be there. The carriers weren't there,
(24:14):
and that was a matter of luck for us, because
if the carriers had all been sunk at at Pearl Harbor,
the Battle of Midway, which we just referenced the moment ago,
never would have even been fought, you know. So that's
the long form answer. I don't think Roosevelt. Roosevelt wanted
(24:36):
us in the war. He knew we had to go
into the war, but I don't think he expected it
to happen like that.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Great George, welcome comes to Yeah, I probably don't it.
Buy that book, Dan, You have a very good all right.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
George, Merry Christmas. Okay, talk soon, Yeah, Bill Martin. The
group is assembling and is going to tell us what's
going on down in Rhode Island. So as much as
I would like to keep our conversation going, I'm gonna
let you off and let's maybe pick this up right
after the first of the year. If that's what been
with you, okay, I would love it, Dan, Thank you
(25:15):
very much. Bill Martin.
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