July 10, 2025 • 39 mins
Morgan White Fills in on NightSide:
Between the 1950s and the 1970s, there were four television series that defined what it meant to be a “man of action” on TV. The Untouchables, Run for Your Life, The Magician and Harry O. Ed Robertson of TV Confidential joined Morgan to chat about these four shows and the men who starred in them.
Between the 1950s and the 1970s, there were four television series that defined what it meant to be a “man of action” on TV. The Untouchables, Run for Your Life, The Magician and Harry O. Ed Robertson of TV Confidential joined Morgan to chat about these four shows and the men who starred in them.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's Nightside with Dan Ray.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm WBZY, Boston's new radio.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good evening, two more hours of Nightside coming your way.
I'm Morgan, Morgan White Junior. Have been here at WBZ
basically for thirty years. Good grief, that's a long time.
I a month ago, I was in Las Vegas and
this gentleman was kind enough to come over from California,
(00:28):
the LA area and watch me do a show with
Big Elvis. He even won a couple of T shirts
and know the contest was not fixed. And I've had
him on a number of times over the years, and
he has written good Grief. I'm gonna pick a number
(00:49):
and say eight or nine books primarily about well known
TV programs, and he wrote a couple of books based
on James Garner's series Maverick, The Legend of the West,
and The Rockford Files. He also wrote a book about
(01:10):
Perry Mason and Alison, if you're out there, I expect
a call from you because you bought and read that
book and had many carments about the Perry Mason TV series.
I have one tonight, but I'll get into that later.
And he has a book out now called Men of
(01:32):
Honor and there are men of action, my mistake.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
They are men of honor, each in their own way.
But the name of the book has been of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Action, men of action.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And I apologize because you know, I've been on the
other side of the microphone and I don't like it
when guests interrupt me. But no, if I'm wrong, stop
me my radio. Sometimes you say what you mean, you
say you mean, you have the word right in front
of you, but your mind ends up saying something else. Right, So,
but anyway, my apologies, Morgan.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
No, no interrupt me. If I make a mistake, guess
and let I'll let you tell. Well, I'll do two
and you do two, all right, I'll do all four.
Manu of Action does an overview of the TV series
(02:25):
The Untouchables, the TV series Run for Your Life, the
TV series Harry O, and the TV series The Magician.
And it's funny. There's a program on now Penn and Teller.
They've been on for like a decade or so. Fool
(02:46):
Us is the title of that show. And last week
of the week before I was watching that show and
they had or I forget his first name, you would
know Mark Wilson's son.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, and he.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Was there as a magician, just as a pal of
Penn and teller. What's his son's name?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I'd have to look that up, but I would Mike.
I'm thinking it might be Mark junior.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
But I don't know that might be it, well for.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
For purposes, for purposes of our conversation, he's Mark's junior,
all right.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I used to watch The Magical Land of I
could sing the theme the Magic Land of Alexander Welcome True.
And that was a show circa nineteen fifty nine nineteen
sixty and I loved that show. Plus they would show
a hand of Barbara cartoon just as something else to
(03:49):
pay attention to. And the fact of Mark Wilson. I'm
going somewhere with this, Greg.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's Greg Wilson, Greg, Greg, Greg is his son.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And I saw Greg Wilson as a kid, do some magic,
make pool walls disappear and what not. And why did
I focus on Mark Wilson Because he was the coordinator
the taught Bill Bixby.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yes, yes he was. Today we would call him the
bench coach or or you know, the specialist coach because
every team, you know, the Red Sox included have have
have have like a number of specialty coaches to help
certain players, like you know, Walker Buehler fine tunes certain
(04:37):
things in the course of the season. So Mark Wilson
was essentially the bench coach for Bill Bixby.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
And he taught Bill taught Bill Bixby almost all of
the sleight of hand, tricks illusions.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Not only that, he helped the writers incorporate a lot
of the magic that Bixby used on the series effectively
so that it served the story versus being jammed in
for the sake of being jammed in. So that it
(05:15):
so that if if if at one point Bixby's character
had uh, he he had a he had a pack
of trick cards that served the purposes of they would
like he could throw them and they would serve the
purpose as a knife or a club or some sort
(05:40):
of distraction, you know. So so so if if he
if he pulls a if if he does a bit
of slighter hand before he throws the deck of cards,
that that bit of slighter hand serves the purpose versus
just being there for show.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And the key about that series it only ran one season,
and it was possibly going to get a second season.
If it had gotten the second season, I learned it
from reading your book. That series would have given Bill
Bixby a second job. He would have gone on the
(06:20):
road and performed magic tricks, and that was scheduled to happen.
But the show didn't get a second season, so that
kind of ended that possibility.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, it was what in the industry they call it
a It was what they call a bubble show, meaning
its numbers were on the bubble of renewal. It wasn't
winning its time slot, but it wasn't losing its time slot.
(06:56):
It was and again this is back in the three
network universe, Morgan, so do the math. It was finishing
a solid second place more often than not, But the
network looked at its overall numbers, and I forget who
was in charge of the programming department at NBC at
(07:19):
the time. I think it may have been Marvin and Gronowski,
also known as the Mad Programmer, But they they decided
it was not worth the time to It certainly was
not worth the expense to renew The Magician for a
(07:39):
second season, particularly if if the budget would required, you know,
such to fly Fixby across the country. It's too it's
too bad. But a lot of times decisions like that
are made based on the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And they would have done show in Vegas. This is
twenty twenty five years before the proliferation of Magic every
other casino. David Carperfield, Penn and teller Melinda, the first
(08:16):
Lady of Magic. I'm just rattling off names of people
that I know played Vegas and had Bill Bixby done
a show in Vegas, that would have been great for
the home viewing audience to have another show in Lats Vegas, which,
(08:37):
when you think about it, think of the shows that
have been shot in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
They've done too many of them.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
But they always guaranteed an audience. D'antanner Robert Yorick's character
in the TV show Vegas Lats Vegas with James Cohn
and Tom Selleck, and that show I think ran four seasons.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Tom Selleck was in Las Vegas. I think, I think,
I think I think it was another Tom No.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
No, you you can look this up. I'll bet you Nickel.
Tom Selleck replaced James Conn's character.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Okay, all right, okay, this would have been before This
would have been before Blue Bloods, Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Before Blue blood In between Blue Bloods and Magnum. That's
the series that Tom Selleck was in.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Blue Bloods have been has been almost as was on
almost as long as The Simpsons, at least it seems
that way. So it's it's hard for me to imagine
Celick doing any show other than Blue Bloods or Magnum
p I and.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I agree with you, and it's evolving into now a
show filmed in Boston. Blue Blood's called Boston Blue. But
we're way off the subject and I'm late for my break.
Let me take the break. You're going to be here
to midnight. We have so much to talk about miles
ago before we sleep. Time and temperature here in the
East because you're in the West ten seventeen sixty four degrees.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Dan, We'll be back on Monday eight sharp. Trust me,
I'm Morgan. I'm filling in tonight and I'm filling in
tomorrow night as well. My guest Ed Robertson. Ed and
I have become good buddies over the years, and he
even traveled from California to see me do a set
with Big Elvis in Las Vegas. Did those T shirts
(10:39):
fit you.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
By the way, they're the perfect size.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That's all I have to hear.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
They're they're the perfect size. And I were going back
to our baseball analogy. I came out of the bullpen
because you were you were short of volunteers, and I
was there.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh, thank you, And I I think because I've done
over forty big Elvis appearances, but that was the first
time I had a congloment of people that were fans
of Celtic, not the Boston Celtics. Yes, three thousand miles
(11:20):
to the left.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, well it goes. Look, you've been doing live shows
for god knows how long, and you do and you
do live radio. You know. My point is, no two
audiences are ever quite the same. Because because no two
(11:41):
audiences are ever quite the same, you may there may
be certain there may be certain routines that you may
you know, use yes time to time, but because the
audience is never the same, the reaction to the routine
will never be the same. And that's what keeps repression.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And what I thought of doing was focusing there are
five trivia subjects, music, movie, sports, TV and general information.
I thought of changing it to the British Isles as
my basic subjects, so British TV, British movies, British history,
(12:25):
and that would have won over the entire room. But
I decided not to do that. And I'm doing this
in midstream, so to speak. I don't know why I
didn't want to do it that way, but I knew
there were people in there that were in there to
see Big Elvis. So Elvis Trivia worked.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Well. You have to look, this goes back to the
other point of why you're so good at what you do.
You know how to read the room.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You are able to You're you're you're able to make
the upset the assessment in real time and and and
adapt and just affording.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That's what I have to do. That's right, tell you what.
You're here to sell books, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Here to talk to you about the selling of the
Men of Action.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Men of Action will get people to call in because
they were fans of David Jensen. Loved him in The Fugitive,
loved him in Harry, Oh, maybe not so much. O'Hara
Us Treasury another series.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
He didn't like it because maybe not so much because
Jansen didn't like it so much.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Okay, And I'm trying to think he was.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And going back to going back to how we spent
our first segment. People love Bill Bixby, especially especially the
core audience that we're talking to tonight, love Bill Bixby.
And to button up one of the things that I
that each each chapter of Men of Action does besides
(14:09):
take the listener the reader back in time, you know,
and and and the backstory of how each of these
four shows got on the air HARRYO, Run for Your Life,
The Fugitive, and The Untouchables, but also shows how each
in their own way paved the way for dramatic television
(14:31):
as we know it today. So it's a little bit
of it's a little bit of history. And uh, I
forget who coined the phrase, but it's infotainment, okay, And
you know, so that's and and to button up the
point about about magic the Magicians. Uh, even though the
(14:56):
The NBC Magician with Bill Bickley only ran one full
season twenty two shows, it it slowly, you know, paved
the way for a host of other type other magic
type of shows. And not just dramatic the shows that
incorporated magic into dramatic television, but just the popularity of
(15:20):
magic in general, there's a whole slew of you know, spectacle,
spectacle and magic, yes, yes, but but but also just
the you know, the type of spectacles that David Copperfield,
(15:40):
you know, and Chris Angel and those those type of
illusionists do. And I brought this point because last week
on my radio show TV Confidential, I had a my
my primary guest was a man named rich Manley who
has a show called Culture Shock on to be in
(16:02):
which he travels to parts known and unknown, and he
may not speak the language of the country that he's in,
but everyone understand slider hand. Yes, everyone understands up close
you know what they what what the great Milton Larsen
used to call table magic. Everybody understands that. And he
(16:27):
uses that to bridge whatever language barriers there may be.
He uses magic and sliding hand to bridge culture culture.
It's very interesting consumpt of a show. And I dare
say in a in a way Bill Bixby show made
shows like Culture Shock with rich Manley possible.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And it makes me think of something like Ricky j
who was a medium say and a medium magician, and
he parlayed some of the magic stuff that he did
to debunking magic and then into full fledged acting. He
(17:13):
played an assistant cameraman in Bookie Knights, that movie with
Burt Reynolds. Or he was in a James Bond movie
as an arms dealer. And I could think of a
number of movies that Ricky j was in and he
was good as an actor, and magic got him noticed.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yes, because you know, one of the best, one of
the best learning skills for an actor is the ability
to perform in front of a live audience. And so
Ricky Jay had that. Pen Jellette has that. I mean
ten Slett's not known for his on screen acting, but
(17:59):
he's done so, as has Teller. And you mentioned the
name of their current show. Teller have done many shows
throughout the year, one of which has a name that
you can't say. No, I can't, but the.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Key is they spent They spent a quarter of a
century making us not hear Tellora, assuming Taylor can't speak.
But then Taylor took a recurring role on The Big
Bang series and he was a rather eloquent person, and
(18:39):
they wove magic around his appearance on that show.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
He also did There is a movie. It came out
somewhere along in the same era as Bull Durham and
and Field of Dreams came out late daily early nineties.
(19:06):
It was awesome. As I recalled, it was also about
minor league baseball. Did not get the sort of play
that those two movies did. It was a movie.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Called Long Long Gone. Michael Manson was Michael who just.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, okay, okay, that's that's that's okay, we're there. Was
the same guy, but uh Teller played either the owner
or the son of the owner of that minor league
club in that movie, and Tell and Teller.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Spoke, yeah, tell you what. I'm gonna halt you here
because I'm sure you have this happened on your show.
Bottom of the hour. It's time for quick news hit.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You have a heart, you have a hard clock?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh I do, And I'm already at I'm a minute over.
So let me take a break. Make my producer in
the studios happy, and Neil and water Town. You will
be the first call we take right after the break.
Here in BZ time and temperature ten thirty one, temperature
sixty four degrees.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Dan is off today, he's off tomorrow. He will be
back on Monday eight pm sharp. I promise you. My
name Morgan White, Junior, and I've been a part of
the BZ fabric Crover thirty years. I am joined by
mister Ed Robertson, a very prolific gentleman, written a number
of books about TV programs, and his most recent book,
(20:40):
Man of Action, focuses on four specific TV shows. The Untouchables,
doa Nelson Riddle music or maybe you prefer Benkuzara and
run for your life. That's not your cup of tea.
How about a show after the Fugitive ran no pun intended,
(21:04):
ran its course. Then you find mister David Jensen as
how can I say this a detective that they broke
the mold when they made that's the best way to
say it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
A bohemian, a bohemian existential, philosophical private eye who could
throw a punch. There you go, and who had a car,
and who had a car, who never.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Worked and had a boat that he was always working on.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Was always working on.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And and one of the reoccurring stars on that show
before she became an angel, Fara Facet.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Para faucet, was very very good.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
She what they asked her to do. She was good
at it.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, she played his next door neighbor when they moved.
The show originally was filmed in San Diego. They filmed
about ten or twelve of those. They ran into production issues,
partially because the city of San Diego did not have
(22:16):
a film commission set up. So it was a pioneer
in that respect. And and they were inventing the wheel
every day. Today you would you know, you everything's done
digitally and via satellite. You can you can upload the dailies.
You can upload the film via you know, via the
(22:41):
via the cloud or whatever, from from from San Diego
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
You can make Boshington. You can make Boston look like
Seattle if you had to.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, but see but but but back in nineteen seventy four,
before any of these things were thought of, and before
the city of San Diego officially had a film commissi,
and they would have to drive the dailies to La
get them developed, and drive them back to San Diego
(23:10):
the next morning so that the director and the producer
and the creatives and David Jansen could watch the dailies
and and and and make whatever adjustments they have to make.
It got expensive and tedious, which is one of the
several reasons why production of the show was moved back
(23:31):
to Los Angeles in the in the spring of seventy five,
which paved the way for Anthony Zerby to join the cast,
and as part of the revamping, they created a character
who was now Harry's next door neighbor, let stewardess named Sue,
(23:52):
played by farrapossa.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Major and in those days they called her a stewardess,
not a flight atten. Right. You know, I've been fair
to a caller who's been holding just under a half hour.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So Neil, I'm responsible for that.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That's okay, Neil in water Town, Which of these subjects
has your interest?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Morgan, I was under the impression that I could ask
a question about Perry Mason. I'm sorry, Yes, we.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Haven't even talked about his book on Perry Mason. Uh,
ed tell everybody the title? Yeah, oh, definitely, I have
a question about Perry Mason as well. But what was
your title of that Mason book.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Case of the Illiterative Attorney, Behind the Scenes, look at
the Perry Mason series and Perry Mason Made for TV Movies.
Case of the Literative SI, Case of the Illiterative Attorney
available Amazon dot com as well as Ed Robertson dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So what's your question, Neil Well.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I happened to watch one episode on the computer and
I was moved by it. So how do you pronounce
Lieutenant Sulhu's name in real life?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
In real life? To kay okay okay ak all right?
Speaker 4 (25:12):
So this was in nineteen fifty nine. I wrote down
some notes. Actually it was the Case of the Missing Pearls.
It was directed by Richard B. Wharf and written by
Jonathan Latimir. And I just want to just do this brief, sing,
very brief, and it's Nobu McCarthy plays Mitsu Kamurray and
George Kay plays Toomas sak Kai, and Perry Mason says,
(25:37):
I have only one question now. Earlier you testified that
when the pearls were first found in this Kamurray's cottage,
you volunteered.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
To return them.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
I now ask you why. And Thoma looks at the
judge and says, must I answer, and just says unless
it incriminates you, And Thomas says it does in a way,
But I will answer. Offered to take the pearls back
from mitso because I love her. So then there were
three shots, one on Noble McCarthy, one on George Takay,
(26:09):
and one on Noble McCarthy. And on the third shot,
Perry Mason says, thank you. That will be all. So
then I forgot a lot of the story. I was
wondering if mister Robinson could tell me, why did Perry
Mason do this? Was it just altruism, or if you
remember the story, is.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
He why did you? Why did he do what? I
don't understand what you're asking.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Why did he give George t Kay an opportunity to
say that I love her and I don't. I'm not
sure it was part of the he really.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Needed as Ira. As I recall, and it's been several
years since I've seen the film. As I recall, Dekay's
character was a suspect, but Mason knew he was not
the perpetrator, and so he may my guess is going
(27:02):
off memory, he likely asked that question to give to
Kay's character an opportunity to establish himself as not guilty
in the eyes of the jury or the judge. If
this is a hearing, that's right, Perry Perry. The episodes
(27:26):
we saw rarely took place in front of an actual jury.
They were usually a preliminary hearing.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Right, Hamiltonburger would say, we're making a female facie case
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yes, that's that's very good. That's very good knowledge, Neil.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Yeah, okay, Well I was just wondering because I just
found it moving, so I wrote it down and I
was just kind of do you remember Noble McCarthy at all?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
She had a good career in movies and television throughout
the fifties and sixties. I will confess that the the
the first role of hers that pops into my head
was that she played one of the penguin's malls in
Batman the series. Not a very good episode, but she
(28:11):
was lovely on the eyes nonetheless.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
All Right, well that answers my question, and thank you
very much.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
All right, Neil, thank you for the call. Okay, and
I've got a Perry Mason question and then we'll take
our next break. Lieutenant Track, I know he got sick
roughly between season four and five and he was down
to doing like a cameo Wesley Law who played Lieutenant Anderson,
(28:42):
and then for whatever reason, he stopped his role and
they brought in Richard Anderson to play the lieutenant drum
Why did they keep Ray collins name in the credits
(29:04):
prominently placed when they Raymond Perry Mason, then they show
the key for of Barbera Haill, William Townsman, William Harper,
and Ray Collins.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I think because contractually he was still considered part of
the cast through at least the end of the fifth season,
which would have been sixty one sixty two, And even
though he had been diagnosed with cancer, I believe around
the third season, because he was while he was getting treatment,
(29:44):
I mean, he continued to work because that's what gives
actors their get up and go on their livelihood, is
the ability to work and practice their craft. And so,
and because he was a beloved member of the cast,
and the producers loved them well, so they would accommodate
him whenever he was available, even if it was only,
(30:06):
you know, bringing him in one or two scenes. Yeah,
and then he continued to do it. But they hired
Wesley Low as a backup, you know, to do the
heavy lifting when Ray Collins was not available, you know,
to do more than one or two scenes. And so
that is why Ray Collins' name appears in the beginning
(30:29):
credits for at least the first five years.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, Okay, you've answered my question. I just love the
way when he was being a smart butt to Perry,
he wouldn't say lawyer, he wouldn't say barrister, he would
say counselor Yes, I love the way he said that.
(30:52):
Let me take my break. Anyone else wants to call in?
There are myriad of TV shows you can call in
and discuss and tell relatively with my guest, mister Ed Robertson.
And how many books have you written.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
T TV books? I think six or seven. There are
a couple of my book in the Rock Prod Files
I've been I've revised three times, so technically it's one
book done three times. But the content of the second
edition is not the same as the first, and the
(31:27):
content of the third edition is not the same as
the second. You know, So technically there three books, even
though they all have the same title.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And your book on the FBI is ten pages less
than more in Peace.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But the SBI ran nine years, two hundred and forty
one shows, including one that never aired on ABC, and
so two hundred and forty shows three to four pages
per show that averages out to seven hundred pages plus.
You include some information I need season and that's why
(32:01):
the book is longer than almost as long as a
warm piece. That's b IDoc available Amazon dot com. Ed
Robertson dot com.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
There you go, time in temperature ten forty seven sixty
four degrees.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Dan's off, He'll be back on Monday on Morgan my guest.
Ed Robertson right now, I guarantee you I could list
all of the books that he has written focusing on
TV series of the sixties and seventies, and one of them,
one of them will mean something to you. And I
(32:40):
knew that. My next caller, she's called in, was into
Perry Mason. She purchased the Perry Mason book written by
Ed Robertson, and she's called in. I guess to talk
to you about some part of the book. So Ed
meet Allison.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Alison, Alison, how are you?
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Jack? Okay?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (33:00):
On that?
Speaker 6 (33:00):
Yeah, I just was. I just popped. You know a
couple of episodes that I've I've got I write down
to my favorite ones in a book. You know, I
do that with Untouchables and other shows too, So I
was just thinking of the ones I haven't mentioned before
when I was not there's I like the Double Entry
Mind with I can't Rememberdge the actor's name now, but
he was a premedi primarily a comedic actor, and Stuart something.
(33:21):
I can't remember his name, but but you know, it's
one of those worm turns typed episodes where you know
it's really unexpected, the killer and everything. I'm probably giving
it away now by what I'm saying, but it's just
I just thought that was a really interesting one because
it really same to go in several different directions until
it settled on the killer. And also I like Later
Minch later one of the Festies fell in. I think
Kathy Brown was really super good in that there are
(33:43):
all these amazing character actors and actresses from those days.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Kathy Brown, who was married to Darren McGavin for many
many years.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Oh I didn't, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Cool.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
Yeah she was. She was just so good in that,
I thought, you know, And now another one. I love
the ones that just keep.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Trying double mind. You're thinking of stud Irwin, that's it exactly?
Speaker 5 (34:02):
Yeah, yeah, Sitcom, Yes, and and who and Who, as
Alison Aptley pointed out, was mostly known as a comedic actor.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
But that's one of the cool things I learned in
talking to as many of the creatives that I was
able to talk to when I did the Perry Mason book.
The case of the Illiterative Attorney is that.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
They uh the casting people. They weren't just looking to
fill roles with, you know, certain type of actors. They
would try to think outside the box. And so even
if they brought back, for example, Kathy Brown, I think
they brought back three times, but they didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Always have her played the same characters. Sometimes she would
be a decedent, uh, sometimes she would be well, no,
I don't okay, I don't remember whether she was ever
a decedent. But sometimes she would be the suspect. Sometimes
she might be one of the one of the four
or five red herrings, or sometimes she would just be
(35:11):
an atmosphere character who did not have anything to do with.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
The case itself, but her character.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Had something to do with the story that kept it
moving so far.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
Yes, and another one I really thought was really good
is called the Jaded Joker. Really good casting that you
have good Old Walter Burke and I might be getting
mixed up though. Is that the one Bobby Troop too?
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I think and I believe, yeah, Bobby Troup did a couple.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Bobby Trup did a couple, and I think.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Guy was a comedian too, The main guy in that
was a comedian. I'm sorry, I don't have a book
right in front of me right now, but and that
was a really good twisty one. And then you know,
in a kind of beatny cafe thing, which was It's
amazing how quickly that became a standard thing in TV
in the days when the whole beatning cafe thing and
the bongos and the poet everything.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's it's one of it's one of the few things
that dates the show, but not really.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
You know, I love that era anyway though. I just
love it in the sick humor and all that stuff
in that era, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And they did use a lot of actors over and
over again. Reads to me, Denver Pile, Oh yeah, Michael Constantine,
people that we've learned over the years were dependable to
convey just what they wanted the audience to see as
(36:33):
a characterization.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Frankie language in that episode I forgot I was trying.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
To think of. Yeah, it wasn't a comedian, he was
a singer, that's right.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, yeah, mule train.
Speaker 6 (36:42):
Yeah, I love it when you watch them. I did
a whole marathon and not you know, not totally. I
didn't kill myself with a bingch but but I mean
I took weeks and months, but I did a year
or two go did the whole series, except that I
didn't quite get to the last season yet. But but
you know, it just it's really cool when you see
the ar characters come back and a totally different characters,
actors back an characters. I love that. I love that.
(37:03):
The shaving.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, it's one of the many things that kept the
show fresh for nine years, which is hard, which is
which is hard to do anyway. It was particularly hard
back then because they were still making as many as
thirty shows a year. I mean, in fact, I think
the first the first two years, they made almost forty
shows a year, which is unheard of. That it was
(37:27):
normal today.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
It was normal then, yes, to do thirty nine episodes
per year.
Speaker 6 (37:35):
Now they're doing like the British and doing only eight episodes
and it's mostly all rubbish anyway. Eight to eight is
too many for most of the show.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So you know, yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
Tried to watch that Wednesday show. The girl was good,
but oh man, what rubbish. Just you know, it's another
Scooby It's not one of those Scooby Gang type shows
where I just I'm too old to relate to that
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
I guess.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
Yeah, But you know, there were so many great episodes
that could go on online. But the Illicit Illusion that
was a really strange episode that one kept shifting. I
didn't really don't know what the heck was going on
till the very end of that. And and then you know,
I mean, yeah, I mean I can just thrown these
off and all that.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And did anyone did I'm sorry, Alison, did anyone do
more than five? I know? Ruder Lee did five.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Ruder Lee did five?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I know. I have an appendix in the book about
repeat appearances. There was an actor whose name escapes me.
He's character actor Von Taylor.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Okay, I believe he.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I believe he did as many as eight or nine.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Okay, he was in the very first episode in fact.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh. And again he was
versatile because and one of the things that made him
versatile is that he was only in his thirties or
forties at the time. But because but because he had
a receding hairline, he often looked he looked older than
he actually was.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
All Right, guys, guys, I hate to do it. I
got it hard.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I guess has another heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I do come around, Allison, thank you for the call,
and you hang in there. Get another hour with you,
everybody else, one more hour with Ed Robertson. Time and
temperature ten fifty eight sixty four degrees
He's Nightside with Dan Ray.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm WBZY, Boston's new radio.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good evening, two more hours of Nightside coming your way.
I'm Morgan, Morgan White Junior. Have been here at WBZ
basically for thirty years. Good grief, that's a long time.
I a month ago, I was in Las Vegas and
this gentleman was kind enough to come over from California,
(00:28):
the LA area and watch me do a show with
Big Elvis. He even won a couple of T shirts
and know the contest was not fixed. And I've had
him on a number of times over the years, and
he has written good Grief. I'm gonna pick a number
(00:49):
and say eight or nine books primarily about well known
TV programs, and he wrote a couple of books based
on James Garner's series Maverick, The Legend of the West,
and The Rockford Files. He also wrote a book about
(01:10):
Perry Mason and Alison, if you're out there, I expect
a call from you because you bought and read that
book and had many carments about the Perry Mason TV series.
I have one tonight, but I'll get into that later.
And he has a book out now called Men of
(01:32):
Honor and there are men of action, my mistake.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
They are men of honor, each in their own way.
But the name of the book has been of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Action, men of action.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And I apologize because you know, I've been on the
other side of the microphone and I don't like it
when guests interrupt me. But no, if I'm wrong, stop
me my radio. Sometimes you say what you mean, you
say you mean, you have the word right in front
of you, but your mind ends up saying something else. Right, So,
but anyway, my apologies, Morgan.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
No, no interrupt me. If I make a mistake, guess
and let I'll let you tell. Well, I'll do two
and you do two, all right, I'll do all four.
Manu of Action does an overview of the TV series
(02:25):
The Untouchables, the TV series Run for Your Life, the
TV series Harry O, and the TV series The Magician.
And it's funny. There's a program on now Penn and Teller.
They've been on for like a decade or so. Fool
(02:46):
Us is the title of that show. And last week
of the week before I was watching that show and
they had or I forget his first name, you would
know Mark Wilson's son.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, and he.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Was there as a magician, just as a pal of
Penn and teller. What's his son's name?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I'd have to look that up, but I would Mike.
I'm thinking it might be Mark junior.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
But I don't know that might be it, well for.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
For purposes, for purposes of our conversation, he's Mark's junior,
all right.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I used to watch The Magical Land of I
could sing the theme the Magic Land of Alexander Welcome True.
And that was a show circa nineteen fifty nine nineteen
sixty and I loved that show. Plus they would show
a hand of Barbara cartoon just as something else to
(03:49):
pay attention to. And the fact of Mark Wilson. I'm
going somewhere with this, Greg.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's Greg Wilson, Greg, Greg, Greg is his son.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And I saw Greg Wilson as a kid, do some magic,
make pool walls disappear and what not. And why did
I focus on Mark Wilson Because he was the coordinator
the taught Bill Bixby.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yes, yes he was. Today we would call him the
bench coach or or you know, the specialist coach because
every team, you know, the Red Sox included have have
have have like a number of specialty coaches to help
certain players, like you know, Walker Buehler fine tunes certain
(04:37):
things in the course of the season. So Mark Wilson
was essentially the bench coach for Bill Bixby.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
And he taught Bill taught Bill Bixby almost all of
the sleight of hand, tricks illusions.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Not only that, he helped the writers incorporate a lot
of the magic that Bixby used on the series effectively
so that it served the story versus being jammed in
for the sake of being jammed in. So that it
(05:15):
so that if if if at one point Bixby's character
had uh, he he had a he had a pack
of trick cards that served the purposes of they would
like he could throw them and they would serve the
purpose as a knife or a club or some sort
(05:40):
of distraction, you know. So so so if if he
if he pulls a if if he does a bit
of slighter hand before he throws the deck of cards,
that that bit of slighter hand serves the purpose versus
just being there for show.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And the key about that series it only ran one season,
and it was possibly going to get a second season.
If it had gotten the second season, I learned it
from reading your book. That series would have given Bill
Bixby a second job. He would have gone on the
(06:20):
road and performed magic tricks, and that was scheduled to happen.
But the show didn't get a second season, so that
kind of ended that possibility.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, it was what in the industry they call it
a It was what they call a bubble show, meaning
its numbers were on the bubble of renewal. It wasn't
winning its time slot, but it wasn't losing its time slot.
(06:56):
It was and again this is back in the three
network universe, Morgan, so do the math. It was finishing
a solid second place more often than not, But the
network looked at its overall numbers, and I forget who
was in charge of the programming department at NBC at
(07:19):
the time. I think it may have been Marvin and Gronowski,
also known as the Mad Programmer, But they they decided
it was not worth the time to It certainly was
not worth the expense to renew The Magician for a
(07:39):
second season, particularly if if the budget would required, you know,
such to fly Fixby across the country. It's too it's
too bad. But a lot of times decisions like that
are made based on the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And they would have done show in Vegas. This is
twenty twenty five years before the proliferation of Magic every
other casino. David Carperfield, Penn and teller Melinda, the first
(08:16):
Lady of Magic. I'm just rattling off names of people
that I know played Vegas and had Bill Bixby done
a show in Vegas, that would have been great for
the home viewing audience to have another show in Lats Vegas, which,
(08:37):
when you think about it, think of the shows that
have been shot in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
They've done too many of them.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
But they always guaranteed an audience. D'antanner Robert Yorick's character
in the TV show Vegas Lats Vegas with James Cohn
and Tom Selleck, and that show I think ran four seasons.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Tom Selleck was in Las Vegas. I think, I think,
I think I think it was another Tom No.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
No, you you can look this up. I'll bet you Nickel.
Tom Selleck replaced James Conn's character.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Okay, all right, okay, this would have been before This
would have been before Blue Bloods, Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Before Blue blood In between Blue Bloods and Magnum. That's
the series that Tom Selleck was in.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Blue Bloods have been has been almost as was on
almost as long as The Simpsons, at least it seems
that way. So it's it's hard for me to imagine
Celick doing any show other than Blue Bloods or Magnum
p I and.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I agree with you, and it's evolving into now a
show filmed in Boston. Blue Blood's called Boston Blue. But
we're way off the subject and I'm late for my break.
Let me take the break. You're going to be here
to midnight. We have so much to talk about miles
ago before we sleep. Time and temperature here in the
East because you're in the West ten seventeen sixty four degrees.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Dan, We'll be back on Monday eight sharp. Trust me,
I'm Morgan. I'm filling in tonight and I'm filling in
tomorrow night as well. My guest Ed Robertson. Ed and
I have become good buddies over the years, and he
even traveled from California to see me do a set
with Big Elvis in Las Vegas. Did those T shirts
(10:39):
fit you.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
By the way, they're the perfect size.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That's all I have to hear.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
They're they're the perfect size. And I were going back
to our baseball analogy. I came out of the bullpen
because you were you were short of volunteers, and I
was there.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh, thank you, And I I think because I've done
over forty big Elvis appearances, but that was the first
time I had a congloment of people that were fans
of Celtic, not the Boston Celtics. Yes, three thousand miles
(11:20):
to the left.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, well it goes. Look, you've been doing live shows
for god knows how long, and you do and you
do live radio. You know. My point is, no two
audiences are ever quite the same. Because because no two
(11:41):
audiences are ever quite the same, you may there may
be certain there may be certain routines that you may
you know, use yes time to time, but because the
audience is never the same, the reaction to the routine
will never be the same. And that's what keeps repression.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And what I thought of doing was focusing there are
five trivia subjects, music, movie, sports, TV and general information.
I thought of changing it to the British Isles as
my basic subjects, so British TV, British movies, British history,
(12:25):
and that would have won over the entire room. But
I decided not to do that. And I'm doing this
in midstream, so to speak. I don't know why I
didn't want to do it that way, but I knew
there were people in there that were in there to
see Big Elvis. So Elvis Trivia worked.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Well. You have to look, this goes back to the
other point of why you're so good at what you do.
You know how to read the room.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You are able to You're you're you're able to make
the upset the assessment in real time and and and
adapt and just affording.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That's what I have to do. That's right, tell you what.
You're here to sell books, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Here to talk to you about the selling of the
Men of Action.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Men of Action will get people to call in because
they were fans of David Jensen. Loved him in The Fugitive,
loved him in Harry, Oh, maybe not so much. O'Hara
Us Treasury another series.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
He didn't like it because maybe not so much because
Jansen didn't like it so much.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Okay, And I'm trying to think he was.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
And going back to going back to how we spent
our first segment. People love Bill Bixby, especially especially the
core audience that we're talking to tonight, love Bill Bixby.
And to button up one of the things that I
that each each chapter of Men of Action does besides
(14:09):
take the listener the reader back in time, you know,
and and and the backstory of how each of these
four shows got on the air HARRYO, Run for Your Life,
The Fugitive, and The Untouchables, but also shows how each
in their own way paved the way for dramatic television
(14:31):
as we know it today. So it's a little bit
of it's a little bit of history. And uh, I
forget who coined the phrase, but it's infotainment, okay, And
you know, so that's and and to button up the
point about about magic the Magicians. Uh, even though the
(14:56):
The NBC Magician with Bill Bickley only ran one full
season twenty two shows, it it slowly, you know, paved
the way for a host of other type other magic
type of shows. And not just dramatic the shows that
incorporated magic into dramatic television, but just the popularity of
(15:20):
magic in general, there's a whole slew of you know, spectacle,
spectacle and magic, yes, yes, but but but also just
the you know, the type of spectacles that David Copperfield,
(15:40):
you know, and Chris Angel and those those type of
illusionists do. And I brought this point because last week
on my radio show TV Confidential, I had a my
my primary guest was a man named rich Manley who
has a show called Culture Shock on to be in
(16:02):
which he travels to parts known and unknown, and he
may not speak the language of the country that he's in,
but everyone understand slider hand. Yes, everyone understands up close
you know what they what what the great Milton Larsen
used to call table magic. Everybody understands that. And he
(16:27):
uses that to bridge whatever language barriers there may be.
He uses magic and sliding hand to bridge culture culture.
It's very interesting consumpt of a show. And I dare
say in a in a way Bill Bixby show made
shows like Culture Shock with rich Manley possible.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And it makes me think of something like Ricky j
who was a medium say and a medium magician, and
he parlayed some of the magic stuff that he did
to debunking magic and then into full fledged acting. He
(17:13):
played an assistant cameraman in Bookie Knights, that movie with
Burt Reynolds. Or he was in a James Bond movie
as an arms dealer. And I could think of a
number of movies that Ricky j was in and he
was good as an actor, and magic got him noticed.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yes, because you know, one of the best, one of
the best learning skills for an actor is the ability
to perform in front of a live audience. And so
Ricky Jay had that. Pen Jellette has that. I mean
ten Slett's not known for his on screen acting, but
(17:59):
he's done so, as has Teller. And you mentioned the
name of their current show. Teller have done many shows
throughout the year, one of which has a name that
you can't say. No, I can't, but the.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Key is they spent They spent a quarter of a
century making us not hear Tellora, assuming Taylor can't speak.
But then Taylor took a recurring role on The Big
Bang series and he was a rather eloquent person, and
(18:39):
they wove magic around his appearance on that show.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
He also did There is a movie. It came out
somewhere along in the same era as Bull Durham and
and Field of Dreams came out late daily early nineties.
(19:06):
It was awesome. As I recalled, it was also about
minor league baseball. Did not get the sort of play
that those two movies did. It was a movie.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Called Long Long Gone. Michael Manson was Michael who just.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, okay, okay, that's that's that's okay, we're there. Was
the same guy, but uh Teller played either the owner
or the son of the owner of that minor league
club in that movie, and Tell and Teller.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Spoke, yeah, tell you what. I'm gonna halt you here
because I'm sure you have this happened on your show.
Bottom of the hour. It's time for quick news hit.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You have a heart, you have a hard clock?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh I do, And I'm already at I'm a minute over.
So let me take a break. Make my producer in
the studios happy, and Neil and water Town. You will
be the first call we take right after the break.
Here in BZ time and temperature ten thirty one, temperature
sixty four degrees.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Dan is off today, he's off tomorrow. He will be
back on Monday eight pm sharp. I promise you. My
name Morgan White, Junior, and I've been a part of
the BZ fabric Crover thirty years. I am joined by
mister Ed Robertson, a very prolific gentleman, written a number
of books about TV programs, and his most recent book,
(20:40):
Man of Action, focuses on four specific TV shows. The Untouchables,
doa Nelson Riddle music or maybe you prefer Benkuzara and
run for your life. That's not your cup of tea.
How about a show after the Fugitive ran no pun intended,
(21:04):
ran its course. Then you find mister David Jensen as
how can I say this a detective that they broke
the mold when they made that's the best way to
say it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
A bohemian, a bohemian existential, philosophical private eye who could
throw a punch. There you go, and who had a car,
and who had a car, who never.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Worked and had a boat that he was always working on.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Was always working on.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And and one of the reoccurring stars on that show
before she became an angel, Fara Facet.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Para faucet, was very very good.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
She what they asked her to do. She was good
at it.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, she played his next door neighbor when they moved.
The show originally was filmed in San Diego. They filmed
about ten or twelve of those. They ran into production issues,
partially because the city of San Diego did not have
(22:16):
a film commission set up. So it was a pioneer
in that respect. And and they were inventing the wheel
every day. Today you would you know, you everything's done
digitally and via satellite. You can you can upload the dailies.
You can upload the film via you know, via the
(22:41):
via the cloud or whatever, from from from San Diego
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
You can make Boshington. You can make Boston look like
Seattle if you had to.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, but see but but but back in nineteen seventy four,
before any of these things were thought of, and before
the city of San Diego officially had a film commissi,
and they would have to drive the dailies to La
get them developed, and drive them back to San Diego
(23:10):
the next morning so that the director and the producer
and the creatives and David Jansen could watch the dailies
and and and and make whatever adjustments they have to make.
It got expensive and tedious, which is one of the
several reasons why production of the show was moved back
(23:31):
to Los Angeles in the in the spring of seventy five,
which paved the way for Anthony Zerby to join the cast,
and as part of the revamping, they created a character
who was now Harry's next door neighbor, let stewardess named Sue,
(23:52):
played by farrapossa.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Major and in those days they called her a stewardess,
not a flight atten. Right. You know, I've been fair
to a caller who's been holding just under a half hour.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
So Neil, I'm responsible for that.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
That's okay, Neil in water Town, Which of these subjects
has your interest?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Morgan, I was under the impression that I could ask
a question about Perry Mason. I'm sorry, Yes, we.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Haven't even talked about his book on Perry Mason. Uh,
ed tell everybody the title? Yeah, oh, definitely, I have
a question about Perry Mason as well. But what was
your title of that Mason book.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Case of the Illiterative Attorney, Behind the Scenes, look at
the Perry Mason series and Perry Mason Made for TV Movies.
Case of the Literative SI, Case of the Illiterative Attorney
available Amazon dot com as well as Ed Robertson dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So what's your question, Neil Well.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I happened to watch one episode on the computer and
I was moved by it. So how do you pronounce
Lieutenant Sulhu's name in real life?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
In real life? To kay okay okay ak all right?
Speaker 4 (25:12):
So this was in nineteen fifty nine. I wrote down
some notes. Actually it was the Case of the Missing Pearls.
It was directed by Richard B. Wharf and written by
Jonathan Latimir. And I just want to just do this brief, sing,
very brief, and it's Nobu McCarthy plays Mitsu Kamurray and
George Kay plays Toomas sak Kai, and Perry Mason says,
(25:37):
I have only one question now. Earlier you testified that
when the pearls were first found in this Kamurray's cottage,
you volunteered.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
To return them.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
I now ask you why. And Thoma looks at the
judge and says, must I answer, and just says unless
it incriminates you, And Thomas says it does in a way,
But I will answer. Offered to take the pearls back
from mitso because I love her. So then there were
three shots, one on Noble McCarthy, one on George Takay,
(26:09):
and one on Noble McCarthy. And on the third shot,
Perry Mason says, thank you. That will be all. So
then I forgot a lot of the story. I was
wondering if mister Robinson could tell me, why did Perry
Mason do this? Was it just altruism, or if you
remember the story, is.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
He why did you? Why did he do what? I
don't understand what you're asking.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Why did he give George t Kay an opportunity to
say that I love her and I don't. I'm not
sure it was part of the he really.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Needed as Ira. As I recall, and it's been several
years since I've seen the film. As I recall, Dekay's
character was a suspect, but Mason knew he was not
the perpetrator, and so he may my guess is going
(27:02):
off memory, he likely asked that question to give to
Kay's character an opportunity to establish himself as not guilty
in the eyes of the jury or the judge. If
this is a hearing, that's right, Perry Perry. The episodes
(27:26):
we saw rarely took place in front of an actual jury.
They were usually a preliminary hearing.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Right, Hamiltonburger would say, we're making a female facie case
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yes, that's that's very good. That's very good knowledge, Neil.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Yeah, okay, Well I was just wondering because I just
found it moving, so I wrote it down and I
was just kind of do you remember Noble McCarthy at all?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
She had a good career in movies and television throughout
the fifties and sixties. I will confess that the the
the first role of hers that pops into my head
was that she played one of the penguin's malls in
Batman the series. Not a very good episode, but she
(28:11):
was lovely on the eyes nonetheless.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
All Right, well that answers my question, and thank you
very much.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
All right, Neil, thank you for the call. Okay, and
I've got a Perry Mason question and then we'll take
our next break. Lieutenant Track, I know he got sick
roughly between season four and five and he was down
to doing like a cameo Wesley Law who played Lieutenant Anderson,
(28:42):
and then for whatever reason, he stopped his role and
they brought in Richard Anderson to play the lieutenant drum
Why did they keep Ray collins name in the credits
(29:04):
prominently placed when they Raymond Perry Mason, then they show
the key for of Barbera Haill, William Townsman, William Harper,
and Ray Collins.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I think because contractually he was still considered part of
the cast through at least the end of the fifth season,
which would have been sixty one sixty two, And even
though he had been diagnosed with cancer, I believe around
the third season, because he was while he was getting treatment,
(29:44):
I mean, he continued to work because that's what gives
actors their get up and go on their livelihood, is
the ability to work and practice their craft. And so,
and because he was a beloved member of the cast,
and the producers loved them well, so they would accommodate
him whenever he was available, even if it was only,
(30:06):
you know, bringing him in one or two scenes. Yeah,
and then he continued to do it. But they hired
Wesley Low as a backup, you know, to do the
heavy lifting when Ray Collins was not available, you know,
to do more than one or two scenes. And so
that is why Ray Collins' name appears in the beginning
(30:29):
credits for at least the first five years.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, Okay, you've answered my question. I just love the
way when he was being a smart butt to Perry,
he wouldn't say lawyer, he wouldn't say barrister, he would
say counselor Yes, I love the way he said that.
(30:52):
Let me take my break. Anyone else wants to call in?
There are myriad of TV shows you can call in
and discuss and tell relatively with my guest, mister Ed Robertson.
And how many books have you written.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
T TV books? I think six or seven. There are
a couple of my book in the Rock Prod Files
I've been I've revised three times, so technically it's one
book done three times. But the content of the second
edition is not the same as the first, and the
(31:27):
content of the third edition is not the same as
the second. You know, So technically there three books, even
though they all have the same title.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And your book on the FBI is ten pages less
than more in Peace.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But the SBI ran nine years, two hundred and forty
one shows, including one that never aired on ABC, and
so two hundred and forty shows three to four pages
per show that averages out to seven hundred pages plus.
You include some information I need season and that's why
(32:01):
the book is longer than almost as long as a
warm piece. That's b IDoc available Amazon dot com. Ed
Robertson dot com.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
There you go, time in temperature ten forty seven sixty
four degrees.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Dan's off, He'll be back on Monday on Morgan my guest.
Ed Robertson right now, I guarantee you I could list
all of the books that he has written focusing on
TV series of the sixties and seventies, and one of them,
one of them will mean something to you. And I
(32:40):
knew that. My next caller, she's called in, was into
Perry Mason. She purchased the Perry Mason book written by
Ed Robertson, and she's called in. I guess to talk
to you about some part of the book. So Ed
meet Allison.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Alison, Alison, how are you?
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Jack? Okay?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (33:00):
On that?
Speaker 6 (33:00):
Yeah, I just was. I just popped. You know a
couple of episodes that I've I've got I write down
to my favorite ones in a book. You know, I
do that with Untouchables and other shows too, So I
was just thinking of the ones I haven't mentioned before
when I was not there's I like the Double Entry
Mind with I can't Rememberdge the actor's name now, but
he was a premedi primarily a comedic actor, and Stuart something.
(33:21):
I can't remember his name, but but you know, it's
one of those worm turns typed episodes where you know
it's really unexpected, the killer and everything. I'm probably giving
it away now by what I'm saying, but it's just
I just thought that was a really interesting one because
it really same to go in several different directions until
it settled on the killer. And also I like Later
Minch later one of the Festies fell in. I think
Kathy Brown was really super good in that there are
(33:43):
all these amazing character actors and actresses from those days.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Kathy Brown, who was married to Darren McGavin for many
many years.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Oh I didn't, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Cool.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
Yeah she was. She was just so good in that,
I thought, you know, And now another one. I love
the ones that just keep.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Trying double mind. You're thinking of stud Irwin, that's it exactly?
Speaker 5 (34:02):
Yeah, yeah, Sitcom, Yes, and and who and Who, as
Alison Aptley pointed out, was mostly known as a comedic actor.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
But that's one of the cool things I learned in
talking to as many of the creatives that I was
able to talk to when I did the Perry Mason book.
The case of the Illiterative Attorney is that.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
They uh the casting people. They weren't just looking to
fill roles with, you know, certain type of actors. They
would try to think outside the box. And so even
if they brought back, for example, Kathy Brown, I think
they brought back three times, but they didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Always have her played the same characters. Sometimes she would
be a decedent, uh, sometimes she would be well, no,
I don't okay, I don't remember whether she was ever
a decedent. But sometimes she would be the suspect. Sometimes
she might be one of the one of the four
or five red herrings, or sometimes she would just be
(35:11):
an atmosphere character who did not have anything to do with.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
The case itself, but her character.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Had something to do with the story that kept it
moving so far.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
Yes, and another one I really thought was really good
is called the Jaded Joker. Really good casting that you
have good Old Walter Burke and I might be getting
mixed up though. Is that the one Bobby Troop too?
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I think and I believe, yeah, Bobby Troup did a couple.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Bobby Trup did a couple, and I think.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Guy was a comedian too, The main guy in that
was a comedian. I'm sorry, I don't have a book
right in front of me right now, but and that
was a really good twisty one. And then you know,
in a kind of beatny cafe thing, which was It's
amazing how quickly that became a standard thing in TV
in the days when the whole beatning cafe thing and
the bongos and the poet everything.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's it's one of it's one of the few things
that dates the show, but not really.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
You know, I love that era anyway though. I just
love it in the sick humor and all that stuff
in that era, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And they did use a lot of actors over and
over again. Reads to me, Denver Pile, Oh yeah, Michael Constantine,
people that we've learned over the years were dependable to
convey just what they wanted the audience to see as
(36:33):
a characterization.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Frankie language in that episode I forgot I was trying.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
To think of. Yeah, it wasn't a comedian, he was
a singer, that's right.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, yeah, mule train.
Speaker 6 (36:42):
Yeah, I love it when you watch them. I did
a whole marathon and not you know, not totally. I
didn't kill myself with a bingch but but I mean
I took weeks and months, but I did a year
or two go did the whole series, except that I
didn't quite get to the last season yet. But but
you know, it just it's really cool when you see
the ar characters come back and a totally different characters,
actors back an characters. I love that. I love that.
(37:03):
The shaving.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, it's one of the many things that kept the
show fresh for nine years, which is hard, which is
which is hard to do anyway. It was particularly hard
back then because they were still making as many as
thirty shows a year. I mean, in fact, I think
the first the first two years, they made almost forty
shows a year, which is unheard of. That it was
(37:27):
normal today.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
It was normal then, yes, to do thirty nine episodes
per year.
Speaker 6 (37:35):
Now they're doing like the British and doing only eight episodes
and it's mostly all rubbish anyway. Eight to eight is
too many for most of the show.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So you know, yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
Tried to watch that Wednesday show. The girl was good,
but oh man, what rubbish. Just you know, it's another
Scooby It's not one of those Scooby Gang type shows
where I just I'm too old to relate to that
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
I guess.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
Yeah, But you know, there were so many great episodes
that could go on online. But the Illicit Illusion that
was a really strange episode that one kept shifting. I
didn't really don't know what the heck was going on
till the very end of that. And and then you know,
I mean, yeah, I mean I can just thrown these
off and all that.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And did anyone did I'm sorry, Alison, did anyone do
more than five? I know? Ruder Lee did five.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Ruder Lee did five?
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I know. I have an appendix in the book about
repeat appearances. There was an actor whose name escapes me.
He's character actor Von Taylor.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Okay, I believe he.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I believe he did as many as eight or nine.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Okay, he was in the very first episode in fact.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh. And again he was
versatile because and one of the things that made him
versatile is that he was only in his thirties or
forties at the time. But because but because he had
a receding hairline, he often looked he looked older than
he actually was.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
All Right, guys, guys, I hate to do it. I
got it hard.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I guess has another heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I do come around, Allison, thank you for the call,
and you hang in there. Get another hour with you,
everybody else, one more hour with Ed Robertson. Time and
temperature ten fifty eight sixty four degrees
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