May 29, 2025 • 40 mins
Gary Tanguay Fills in On NightSide
Across the country employees are being summoned back to the office under “return to work” mandates. According to a January 2025 survey by Resume Builder, nine in ten companies will require workers back in the office by the end of the year, with 30% already enforcing five-day in person schedules: Amazon being one of them. With such a pushback from employees, Google is requiring 3 in person workdays as a compromise. Todd Finard of Finard Properties joined Gary to discuss hybrid work in 2025.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Across the country employees are being summoned back to the office under “return to work” mandates. According to a January 2025 survey by Resume Builder, nine in ten companies will require workers back in the office by the end of the year, with 30% already enforcing five-day in person schedules: Amazon being one of them. With such a pushback from employees, Google is requiring 3 in person workdays as a compromise. Todd Finard of Finard Properties joined Gary to discuss hybrid work in 2025.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Bezy Choston's
Me Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi, welcome back. It's great to have Matt Dulian. I'm
talking to some lacrosse right now, and uh, you know,
I'm gonna open it's cousin Todd's on the phone. Let's
talk to cousin Todd. Cousin Todd Todd Fernard of Fernard
Properties is a contributor to the show when I'm on,
and he was also before I get into talking about
business with him. Todd isn't from a lacrosse family as well.
(00:28):
A great interview with me. Did you know, Andrew, you
guys went down and took Ben in the family. You
guys went down to Foxborough right.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We were down in the area. There was a whole
bunch of June of Uh, yeah, there was. There were
a cross tournaments going on all over U. Ben caught
a little bit of it. But but yeah, it's uh,
this is the season, man, It's all across all the time.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, it's incredible. So anyways, I do see Ben Fernard
following the footsteps of Matt Dooley. I do there similar.
I can tell you that right now I'm making a prediction.
No pressure on your son.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
OK, Cornell, here we come, Yeah, here you come, pany exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So the reason I want to talk to Todd Todd is
in commercial real estate. He understands business. And one of
the things I find fascinating Todd right now, because I
see it with my wife and her work habage and
in the company she's working with, is it was reading
this article where Amazon says we want everybody in the shop.
You got to be here five days a week, and
(01:27):
then Google says, well, wait a minute, we're going to
do three out of five. I know your company is
not as big as those companies, but how do you
feel about that?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Oh? I feel I have a hundred feelings on this.
I mean, and I don't think there's a one size
fits all by any stretch here. But I mean, I'm
fifty two, and I don't know. I'd rather be, you know,
in the car on the road, in my home office,
in the office. I get it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Get it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
If I were twenty two, twenty four, thirty two and
I was trying to really build my career and make impressions,
I would think I would kind of feel like I
had to be in the office. I mean, it's hard
to make a really positive impression off a ZoomBox. But yeah,
it's it's a you know, we're far enough away from
(02:23):
the pandemic that this is no longer a safety issue,
but it's a way of life and as an employer,
and you know, this is still an ongoing wrestling match,
and so I mean, we talk about it, but it's
you know, on the one hand, I understand it, and
on the other hand, you know, this is it's time
(02:46):
to go back, man, It's time to get stuff done.
And I think the world is kind of grappling with this,
particularly in this country.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Okay, let me play Devil's advocate, because I don't I
don't know. I don't have an opinion out of the way,
because I'm just a slob that talks on the radio
at night when my wife makes all the money. I'm
just being truthful. So what about the argument that in
order to be competitive to get quality employees, because this
(03:18):
is Google's argument, right, Like you say, Okay, I want
anybody in five days a week. I can keep an
eye on people, we can generate ideas, I can have
team building, we can have team chemistry. But Google says, look,
we're losing very talented people, specifically women with children, that
say I want to be home two days a week
to see my kids. What do you say to that?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, I say they're not wrong. That there's a quality
of life element that I think COVID certainly opened our
eyes to what it feels like to spend more time
in and around your home and to still be productive.
So it makes sense that people would feel that way.
(03:59):
I have a twenty two year old who's headed off
to New York to go work in the investment banking field.
He will be in the office every day, every day
for more than twelve hours a day, and he needs
that in order to make an impression, learn shadow understand
(04:19):
the sort of the cadence of the industry. He's going
to have to be in that office and he will be.
I work in an industry of real estate where you
often are in the field at the property, and we've
realized through COVID that if our accountants are doing what
they do in putting invoices and you know, following up
(04:40):
on payables or receivables, they can do that from a
home computer and they won't miss a beat. And if
it's the right person, if it's a person who you
know and trust. Then have at it. You know, come
into the office a couple of days a week for
someone who is more customer oriented. You know, there's a
(05:00):
lot of industries where that just doesn't fly. It doesn't work.
And so again I repeat, but it's not a one
size fits all. But I I you know, I would
like to see my office mates more.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But for you, like when you say that, like, what
does that do for you personally?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Sure? So, okay, it's fine to write an email, it's
fine to pick up the phone and call someone. But
think about how many interesting ideas and thoughts and sort
of you know, just the process of being in a
space with someone and thinking out loud with them and
being you know, bouncing a creative idea off or being
told by someone that's a dumb idea. But but why
(05:45):
don't you look at it this way? There are some
things that are just inherently face to face. There's also
there's certain kinds of information that you know, you can
I can communicate with you with my voice, and that's fine,
but you know, how I hold my hands, how I
sit in my chair, how I taste around, Like there's
(06:08):
all of these methods of communication that you don't have
when you are remote. So in terms of the quality
of ideas, in terms of sort of the process of
being collaborative, just just being around other smart people and
hearing what they're thinking and then you know, riffing with them.
That is it. That is an in person thing all
(06:29):
day long. They haven't created the virtual Maybe they have,
but but you know, nothing replaces being in the same
space as a person and feeling what they're feeling and
talking to them about that. So I'm still in that camp.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, I call it like you've experienced this with me.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
I I.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Hate texting. If I have to text one of the
five words, I pick up the phone and I call people,
which some people don't like and they find annoying. I
need personal interaction. I need to talk to a voice.
Texting is fine. Meet me at six. I'm fifteen minutes late. Okay, yes,
it's in my cousin Brian. Same thing. I felt like, Okay, look,
(07:15):
I'm writing a paragraph. This sucks. I'm getting on the phone. Yeah,
but that but I'm but I'm a dinosaur.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
No, but I mean, look, can you imagine the concept
of managing a group of people and not having the
ability to sit around a table to you know, talk
about the day in advance or talk about the you know,
what happened yesterday like it. You can only go so far.
(07:43):
I mean, text is entirely limiting, but but the phone
is has some limitations too, So you know, why would
I want to be back? I look the rhythm of
a work week. I like being and I like going
to work. I like being around people that I work with.
I like the energy that it sort of occurs when
you're in that space. And quite honestly, I love going home.
(08:07):
I love the concept of leaving work and saying I'm
now in another mode, I'm in my car, and then
I'm going to be home. I mean, there are things
that I don't know, we didn't give a lot of
thought to before twenty twenty, where you just had a
rhythm to the way the world worked and there was
something about it that was you know, effective, it was
(08:28):
it was productive. We adapted during those couple of years
at home, and then there's certain things that we kind
of held on to. You know, if there are chores
that I picked up, certain household chores during COVID, you
can't just hand them back so I still fold the laundry,
or I still unload, you know, do the dishes or
whatever the things are. And so my world shifted after that,
(08:52):
and I know a lot of peoples did too.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
The one thing about it now, I'm just going to
go to the other side of the argument because I
see it in my house. Instead of being in the car.
You're up and you're starting to work at six am.
You're in your office. You're working at six am. You're
not commuting. You don't have to commute home. You're in
your office till seven or Sunday morning, you go down
in your office and you're working, or you start doing
(09:16):
some stuff Saturday afternoon. If you're in your office five
days a week, that probably doesn't happen. Is there an
argument that can be made for that.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, there is. There is. There's the you know, for
some people, that hour, hour and a half long commute
three hours a day, when you combine it, it is
really really unproductive. Now I would argue for some people
that's like mental health one oh one to need that
time to separate, But that's another issue. I do think
that if everyone in the world were driven and productive
(09:49):
and at all times you were sort of capable of
plugging in. Well, then, yeah, that's a pretty beautiful image
where I can work from six to eight and I
grab some breakfast, maybe get a workout, and then I
can dive back into work. I can go pick the
kids up at one o'clock. But then I'm diving back in.
And that sounds on paper like a really brilliantly kind
of laid out schedule. The reality is you work from home.
(10:14):
There are constant you know, someone's knocking at the door,
you're on a conference call, what do you do? Kids
come home, they're bored, they want to you know, what
do you do? It's not as picture perfect as we'd
like to believe it is. There are moments, for sure,
and look, connectivity or you know, really good technology allows
(10:34):
me to sit at my home computer and no different,
I have access to every file and every sort of
ounce of technology. I can be productive. But again, I
come back to sort of the notion that like the
cadence of a really productive work day has morphed into
something very different. And so I don't know, there are
(10:57):
bits and pieces candidly of each that I really like
and kind of respect and want, But I do believe
that that we're more productive when we have a workplace
and a home place, and you are, you know, engaged
at work when you're at work, and then when you leave,
you know you're in another space. So I call me
(11:18):
a dinosaur if you want, but I'm still kind of
in that space.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I want to talk about the sales process because I
think when I was in sales one hundred years ago,
it was still an in person business. Is it's still
an in person business. That's coming up next with Todd Fernard,
CEO of and our Properties.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
After this, it's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Boston's news.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Radio carry Tageray for Dan Ringer and WBZ Sam Metler,
the moderate from the West Coast and former camp made
of my guest Todd Fernard George. I said, eleven o'clock.
Now Sam comes on because he believes that everybody's screwed,
Republicans and Democrats, which in Los Angeles makes a public
evnemy number one, so he will, Yeah, he goes after everybody.
(12:03):
So that's coming up at eleven o'clock right here on WBC.
I want to talk about the sales process. This is
something I did when I started out. I was in radio.
I was working part time just and I worked in
I sold bank, I sold God. Here's another connection. I
sold Lauren stanchions of all things. You know. Oh, there
you go, velvet ropes, velvet ropes. Woo. The mark up
(12:24):
on that stuff was incredible. No one of those guys
were rich. I Amazon's great. Like I want to buy soap, fine,
I want to order some batteries, fine. I don't want
to have a car delivered to my house. Now. I'm
not going to mention any company names because it works
for some people and it doesn't work for others. You know,
(12:44):
in downtown Boston, there's that big thing there on mass
av I think where they they showed cars that you
can buy or you can whatever. It's a thing for
carv on. Like you like basing cars online. I can't buy.
I have to go sit in a car. I have
to go talk to somebody. So talk about the sales process,
(13:07):
in how you feel that that has changed, and in
how it varies.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Sure, so I'll say this, I mean, technology is, it's
it's everywhere, it's ubiquitous, it's all around us. It is uh,
you know, and and you'd be wise to sort of
figure out how to use it, of course, but for us,
and we're in the business of filling space. We're in
the business of creating spaces and then finding tenants to
(13:36):
occupy those spaces. And so there are all kinds of
great tech tech advancements that allow us to, you know,
quickly root out every operator of this type, of this size.
Here's their name, here's their number, go talk to them.
And if at that point you then sent your mass
(13:57):
email out to them, in my opinion, you'd get absolutely
nowhere that you know, then when it becomes a sales
process or a pitch of sorts, that is a human
that's a human endeavor. That is something where you know,
tell me where, tell me.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Where to drive, or who to call.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
I would much prefer to see that person and you know,
face to face, talk to them, walk into their store,
tell them why I think they would do better in
my location than the location they're in. But but to me,
sales is this art form, that is this It's this
combination of you know, how do you use technology to
your benefit, but then how do you then use your
(14:35):
human skills to essentially make the sale. I think that's true.
I think that's true everywhere but I'm sure there are
examples where you know it is purely a you know,
you've got to you've got to send out a million
emails or a million text messages or in d MS
or whatever, and then that's how you create your your
(14:58):
your sales. But I don't know. I mean to your
original question about working from home. If you're twenty four
years old and you're an aggressive salesperson and you're willing
to get into the office every day and get on
the road and make sales calls in person, I got
to believe you've got such a massive leg up on
every other twenty four year old that wants to work
(15:18):
from home for three days a week. So that's my take.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, I going back to my sales days. I think
what technology allows you to do is that you can
qualify a prospect. It's a rifle shot approach versus a
what we would call like a shotgun approach. I'm sorry
about the weaponryturn yeah, but you know, or a laser approach.
(15:44):
I should say where I can look at my clients,
and I could say through technology, I save time because
I'll look at maybe twenty five prospects and I can
look at the details of what they're doing, and I go,
you know, ten of those people, I don't have a shot. Yeah,
file maybe those ten. So if I take might and
use my time and hone in on those ten and
(16:07):
go knocking on those doors, that's the way to do it.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I agree, And I think the key part of what
you just said is knocking on their door, right, Like,
ultimately you want to get in front of them. You
want to literally shake their hand, you want to look
them in the eye. You want them to feel like
they know. I remember Gary Tangway, he sold me those
You know that there's a point of connectivity. And then
(16:32):
once you have that point of connectivity, now it's a
relationship that Now it's your job to sort of maintain that.
And whether that means you know, cocktails on a Thursday
night or a Red Sox game, or just a note
checking in that there's a familiarity. You know, at the
end of the day, the human aspect there is what
will make the sale, you know, and look, there are
(16:57):
people who sell widgets and whether you get that for
three cents or two cents, that's that's what we'll determine.
And so you know, perhaps for that salesperson, you know,
a personal relationship is a bit less important, but generally speaking,
there is no substitute for ticket items.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Like if someone's coming to the hard properties and you
have a space, right and lord knows, I mean, you've
had to make adjustments now where well, for we were
at the Lacrosse Championships, and I have seen Patriot Place
change over. And I know that's that's not your your
your area, that's a craft thing. But you know, I know,
I remember when Patriot Pig started, where god you had
(17:37):
what's the it.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Was just big name that in the beginning, it was
just big name national retailers. They took a mall, they
they've made it an outdoor mall, and that's what they did.
And by the way, fifteen twenty years ago, that was
good enough. That's all you had to do. But the
the you know, in the world of retail, real estate
or place making or call it whatever you want, it
(18:00):
had better be the most unique, the one of a kind.
You have to get off your couch to come have
this experience. And the Crafts have done a really nice
job with Patriot Place. You could point at any number
of you know, outdoor, interesting, compelling retail experiences, but that
as you say, that's evolved wildly over the last just
(18:22):
ten years.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Right, Well, what I noticed with the down at the
Lacrosse Championships is because when I was doing the period
game show, you know, you had Victoria's Secret. That was
the big thing. So we're gonna put Victoria's secret whether
people come in the clothing thing didn't really work. But
what they have now is entertainment bars, restaurants, ice cream shots,
and the place is jammed, so that yeah, you know,
(18:43):
it's not necessarily it's not necessarily a shopping experience. It's
an entertainment experience completely. I mean, we use this term.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
They're all un they've created an unamazonable experience. It is
all the things that you can't get on your cell phone. Right,
you can't drink a cocktail on your phone. You can't
you know, go on a date. You probably can. I
should take that back, but you know, you the things
that are compelling enough for you to leave your couch
(19:13):
or leave your apartment or what have you and go
out that they they've all realized that, like it's it's
about creating an experience or an entertainment option for people,
or several options. That's too good, too good to pass up.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I know you love clothes.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I do.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Do you have to go into a store?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I do?
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I have?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
I have I have to touch the sweater in the
same way that you may want to, you know, feel
the avocado before you pick your avocado. I mean, I
actually I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I enjoy grocery shopping.
I enjoy going into a store and seeing sort of
what it feels like or or looks like. I'm I am.
(20:00):
I've realized that I'm not good at five five things
to return four of them. I'll buy five things and
forget to return them and then be pissed off at
myself for six months. So you know it it there.
I'm old school in that regard, but I actually think
that even retailers are getting better at making their store
(20:21):
experience worth going Going to it is a better experience.
It's it's I mean, I think we're seeing these things
innovate in front of our eyes.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I agreed, like an idiot. I sometimes on Instagram, I'll
see something like a shirt, Oh I like. My wife
laughs at me. Anything I buy on Instagram is always
a piece of crap. Yeah, it's a piece of and
I go, oh my god, what a deal. Twenty nine bucks. Yeah,
because it costs five cents. You know, you still have
to go grocery shopping. You still have to go buy clothes.
(20:53):
And I do remember this, this was a while ago.
You probably know the details, but the Brighters of the
right felt grocery shopping is going to become a deliverable system, right,
that's what's going to happen. And yeah, I mean, well,
the Amazon bought you know, Whole Foods, and they had
this system, they had distribution channels, they had warehouses set up,
(21:16):
and it failed miserably because of what you just said.
Nobody wants to buy a cump quot online. How about that?
Put that on a billboard.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
There you go. No, no one thought you could use
the word kum quote tonight, but there it is. You did.
I actually think that grocery shopping not all not for
everyone and not all the time. But I think there
is something in our DNA that actually likes the process
of picking the things and browsing and and you know,
(21:52):
you build a list, you go in, you check off
the things on the lip that there's something really.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Great about that. That's an accomplishment.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we like like many families. I mean,
I think we use instacart from time to time, and
it's mostly for you know, the paper towels and the
tissue you know, the tissue boxes or whatever those things
that are. You know, you don't need to you know
what it is produce meat. You know, there's certain things
(22:19):
that I take. I enjoy the process of going to
the meat counter and picking the actual steak that we're
going to have. That like, that's you know, that's just
part of the game. And if you look at how
Whole Foods and many other grocers have they've created their
displays knowing full well that that's part of the whole processes.
You want to be wowed by the produce and wowed
(22:41):
by the the meat counter. So I I you know,
I think that grocery, the grocery world has experimented with
a bunch of different concepts that you know, kind of
worked for a little bit, but did not take over
the industry. And it wasn't you know that the death
of retail didn't happen because of the cell phone, but
(23:03):
people still talk about it quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Todd, You're great. I appreciate you coming on buddy, thank you.
Do you have any questions from me? No? No, no, no, okay. Anyways,
Todd Fernard, CEO of Ferd Properties, I don't know if
you're the CEO, you're the president, you're the boss, you're
the grand poop whatever, but I but I really appreciate
you coming on and Lennings a midsec to this. I'll
take some calls on this and see how people feel,
(23:27):
like do you enjoy working from home? Do you would you?
Do you like going in the office?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Six one seven, two, five four thirty. That's coming out
of next Todd and Joy and I talked to you soon.
Thank you, Thanks buddy Ie Todd with us here on WBZ.
What do you think next? On wbz's night Side.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
To work from home or not work from home? What
do you think? You're an employee or an employer. I
want to know what is on your mind about this
at six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty. I
think it does come down to the individual. I can
tell you that my wife is a workaholic. She's up
and at him at six am every day and she
could be on zooms and phone calls at eight o'clock
(24:14):
at night. She is amazing. Thank god somebody works in
our house. But that's not always the case. There's a
lot to be said for camaraderie. I mean, Todd Fernard
was joining us earlier. You know, there are times you
feed off other employees, your co employees. I feed off them.
I get ideas, I brainstorm, I get motivated. I know,
(24:37):
I like to be around people. I do a better
job of tasks when I'm around people. If it's just
me in a room, I get distracted.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I started looking on Instagram. I start buying crappy stuff
that falls apart three weeks later. I you know, let
me get a snack. I'll be right better. Let me
get a snack. You know, I would say I'm not
productive at home. I need That's why I come out.
I mean, I could work from I could do the
(25:10):
show from my house for WBC. I like to come
in the studio. I like to be here. I like
to see the people in the studio. I like to
see the people in the newsroom. I would not be
You may think I suck at this job, whatever I've
heard it before. I would not be as good at
this job from home. End of story period. For a while,
(25:33):
when I was on television doing sports during the pandemic,
we did the show from home on our laptops. I
was not as good. Not a chance, no way. What
do you think? Six one, seven, two, five, four to
ten thirty. I'm gonna go to Rick and Natick. Rick's
gonna tell us what he thinks on WBC's Night Side. Hello, Rick, Hey,
how you doing.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I'm sorry I didn't get your first name.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's Gary Jilly.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Well, first of all, you have a very good boy,
and you moved the show along nice and quick.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I like that, thank y.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
I did commercial real estate for about twenty years. The
last gentleman that you had on the guests was very
knowledgeable as far as sales. I did it with other corporations,
but in real estate my business. I would go out
and knock on doors and walk around the property. First
of a warehouse or matter fact, building, and I would
(26:29):
take a look like there's too many cars here, or
there's too many trucks backed up, or I'd speak to
the warehouse manager and I'd say, what's the name of
the president here? And you know, how are you guys
doing it if they said, oh my god, we're really busy,
We've got to get more space. Then when I walked in,
and if I got a chance to talk to the guy,
I already knew they had a problem. And you know,
(26:50):
I already had his name in those days when you
walked in the secretary a lot of times but just
you don't want to get rid of you. But most
guys in real estate, most companies, always wanted to talk
about their real estate. And if I hadn't gone out
and talked to companies every day, I never would have
been as successful as I was. And I probably closed
(27:11):
eighty percent of all the customers that I ever talked to,
only because I sat down with them. And these were
vice presidents and presidents and companies, and I would find
out what their problem was, and then I would turn
around and say, hey, here's how I can solve it.
Or they would say to me, hey, what did that
building down the streets though for? Or where's the featus rate?
(27:33):
You can get me for another fifty thousand square feet
of space. But the guys in Boston that did it
by the phone, they had no clue what the building
looked like, what the neighborhood looked like what the guy
looked like. And in the old days, sales were personal
relationships that you had with people, and if you were
any good at it, you had a good relationship. This
(27:54):
idea of the computers is fined for certain things, but
I think a lot of people don't. I think they
missed the real challenging fun of sales, of meeting people
and getting out, being the fresh year and solving something
versus sitting and looking at some they have computer eight
hours a day. Just my opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well, I agree with you, and I think in the
sales process you mentioned listening, and when I was in it, briefly,
the best salespeople I worked with listened, and you listened,
But you also read body language. Yep, you read the situation.
You could see the stress on someone's face, you could
(28:36):
get you know, you could read the subtext if you will,
And it's hard to do that when you're not one
on one with a person. And like I discussed with Todd,
look you're gonna buy soap online, fine, but regardless, there
are still going to be a lot of reasons for
one on one sales. There's no doubt about it. Rick,
Thank you for the phone call. I appreciate it. Go ahead, yes, sir, it's.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Going to buy a car, you want to sit it in.
If you go to buy a pair of shoes, you
want to see what they feel like.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I could never buy a car online. People do it.
I know people do it. I can't do it. Not
a chance, not a chance.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
But I'd like to tell you more often.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Rick, I appreciate the phone call. Six one, seven, ten
thirty is the number here on WBZ. That's good to
Jim all the way to Kansas City, Jim, thanks for
listening on WBZ get any.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Thanks for filling in for Dan.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Thanks buddy.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
So they say ninety percent of what's communicated is nonverbal.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Right right, right right.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
So here, I am a guy, so twelve hour credit
hours past an associate degree from a community college. And
so I know I'm not the only one that thought
of this, but I see the solution is you just
tell people that don't want to come into work every day. Look,
we think you're be twenty percent more effective if you
do come into work every day. So to come into
(30:02):
work every day, we'll pay you X plus twenty and
if you don't, we'll pay you X and I kind
of know people a little bit, and you know what
walks and you know what dots? Right, yeah, money, Yeah,
So but there must be some part of the equation
that I'm missing, because otherwise I'm sure other people have
thought of this.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well, you know, it's interesting. I had lunch with my
neighbor Bill Reich, who has been in business for thirty
five years, and we were talking about this, and he's
big on being in the office, and his feeling was,
if you want to work nine to two and then
go home, fine, you're gonna get paid from nine to two.
He's exactly what you say. But his feeling was that's
(30:44):
where ideas come from. There's also a team bonding aspect
when you're working for a company, and I did feel
this when I was in sales. I worked for a
company that is no longer a business call I don't
think it is called Moorice Bluid, and I made long
time friendships there with people people that I still talk
to today. And you know, the sales guys, you know,
(31:08):
or working with the production people. We would go out
in the field and we would make deals and you
come back and you talk to the production people. This
is what we need to do. You work with the installers.
There is a camaraderie element to it where you're working
as a team, and that can work. That can be beneficial.
That gets people pumped up, That gets people feeling that
(31:28):
they're involved in something that they're appreciated. Because I'll tell
you something, Jim, most of the people want to do
a good job. I still believe that, and they just
have to be recognized and they need to be patted
on the back a little bit. Now, some people need
a kick in the gass, but I think most people
need it, and it's tough to give them that pad
on the back digitally.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
You know when the boss walks in, it says, good job.
That is a month worth of currency. Okay, there's something
to that, you know. In my opinion, there is something
to that, you know what I think. The exception I
do feel, Jim, is that like Google. I see where
(32:11):
Google's coming from, and I think you have to do
it on a case by case basis. If you have
an employee that is a star that produces no matter
where they're located. If they're at home, they get it done,
if they're at work, they get it done. For whatever reason,
they want to work Fridays from home, but they continue
(32:32):
to produce and you may lose that person. Then you say,
all right, you're good, we can do that now if somebody.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Else, Okay, The way I think I would do that
is instead of saying if you stay home, you're going
to get X minus twenty, I would say you're still
going to get your X, but if you come in
you'll get X plus ten. You'll get X plus twenty.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah. But let me ask you this though.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
If you tell if you tell them you're going to
get X minus twenty, then they might leave or they
might be repeated elsewhere. But if you still if you
tell them, look, you're productive. We know you're productive. You're
still going to get your X. But if you're willing
to come into work those extra two days a week,
then we'll give you X plus twenty, X plus ten,
X plus thirty, whatever you know, and just let them
(33:22):
make the decision.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
But then you're giving the people a bonus just for
showing up. It's a unique idea.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Well, it's not for showing up, it's because they're more
productive when they show up. We've already just okay, I
got to go.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
No, no, no, no, thanks to I appreciate the call.
I don't disagree with you, but thank you.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I know I know you don't.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I don't disagree. But if you got to go, that's cool.
It's certainly a viable alternative. Appreciate it, Jim, It's a
viable There are situations where you could lose a good part.
You know, even if you give them the twenty percent,
if you say you're going to make twenty percent. Last
if you work from home, you could lose some good people.
(34:01):
Let's say, well, I'm going to go to work somewhere else.
I think you have to look at at a case
by case basis. But I think what we are learning overall,
and what companies are learning overall, is that you're more
productive and you're stimulated when you're with other people. That's
the bottom line. That's how I feel. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty. Maybe you disagree. What do you guys think?
(34:23):
Coming up at eleven o'clock, my buddy the freak from
the left Coast, the California Moderate, which makes him a
Republican nosed Neck of the woods, Sam Medler At eleven
on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
You're on Night Side with Dan ray On WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Welcome back. Six one, seven, two, five, four thirty is
the telephone number here on wbc UH. Sam Medler joins us.
Coming up in just a few minutes at eleven o'clock,
and we're going to talk about We'll talk about everything.
I love to talk about everything with Sammy, Uh, but
get into what's going on in Washington, and I have
to be honest with you. Where the hell are we at?
Wait a minute, the terriffs in or out the court
(35:07):
said no, but then they said yes, and it's like
it's mind numbing, and then it's just I gotta figure
this out. But Samuel sent me straight in that situation. Now,
Elon Musk, He's gone, you know something. You don't really
last long with President Trump, do you. I mean, if
(35:27):
you're in if you're with his if you're with him,
your shelf life is about a half a year. Then
he gets tired with you, he gets bored, he talks
to you aside. Oh my word, it's just bananas. It's
absolutely bananas. Back to the work thing that we were discussing.
(35:50):
I think it's a way to energize people. I think
it's a way to build camaraderie. I do think, however,
that there are companies that have to make allowances. For example,
if you have a greatmployee they're going to leave, they say,
I need to work it. You have to make exceptions
to the rule, and if people don't like that, you
just say, look too bad. If you are as valuable
as that person and you wanted that situation, I would
(36:13):
give it to you. But you don't work as hard,
you're not as smart, you don't mean as much to
the company. That's one of the problems I do think
with America here as I get on a soapbox, is
we need to generalize everything. Everybody needs to be treated
the same. No, you don't you be you're You should
(36:34):
be treated on the value that you bring to the situation.
That's how we built the damn place.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It goes back to the everybody plays scenario. No, everybody
doesn't play. Now. I don't know how this works with
labor laws. Of course, I'm talking out of my butt
as usual. But if you have a company of two
hundred people, why do you have to say, Okay, here's
the situation. If you want to go home on Friday,
(37:01):
you can no it's a merit based situation. If I
think is the boss that you can handle the responsibility
of working from home, then you can work from home.
If you are as productive working from home on Friday
as you are in the office, fine, But if I
don't think you will be, you don't get to do it.
And then what would happen with that person, man or woman? Whatever?
(37:24):
Would they go cry? Would they say it's not fair, No,
it's fair. It's based on your evaluation as an employee. Now,
if you're working internationally, now here's another situation. If you're
working for a company that is all over the world
and you go into an office and in the office
(37:46):
you're on zooms all day because you're talking to people
in Florida, or you're talking to people in China, or
you're talking to people on the West Coast or in
katman Do or the Galapa Ghost wherever, really matter, where
you are probably not. I don't think it does. I
(38:07):
don't think it does. Also, human contact makes you smarter.
You can read all you want, you can listen to
podcasts all you want, but human interaction makes you smarter
(38:27):
because you're observing human behavior, you're observing how the world works.
You're getting the subtext. What is the person really saying
to you. You don't get that in an email. We've
seen people get pissed off. I've had people get pissed
off at me because I've sent an email and I go,
what are you talking about? I go, relaxed, He I didn't.
(38:48):
You can't detect tone in an email. You can't detect
body language in an email, but you can in an interaction.
How do you generate ideas? Can you brainstorm digitally? Eh?
Maybe on a zoom. Maybe if you're in different parts
(39:08):
of the country. But if you're on the fifth floor
and the other person's on the third floor and you're competing,
you're talking on a zoom. That's ridiculous. That's just lazy.
Get your ass out of the chair and go one
on one. I don't think it's so much that companies
feel that we need to keep an eye on people.
I think they feel that human interaction generates ideas and
(39:32):
generates productivity. Here's the basis of an idea. I think
we should do this. That person says, well, what about
if we try that? How about if we add on
to that. You can't do that on an email. You
can't do it on a text? Can you do it
on a zoom? Maybe? Maybe? And I think that's what
(39:53):
companies are finding out. Plus, isn't it more fun to
be with people? Oh? By the isn't it more enjoyable
to come in and do a radio show with Rob
Brooks on the other side of the glass, to see
Dan in the newsroom, to come in and see people.
Isn't it more enjoyable?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Plus than you can gossip. I mean really, when it
comes to working from home, I gotta tell you, the
office gossip has probably gone down greatly. I love office
gossip the best. Who's sleeping She's sleeping with him? Get out?
Reason number one on the Tangue lists to return to
work five days a week. Office gossip. Sam Metler, The
(40:45):
moderate freak from the West Coast Next on WBZ
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Bezy Choston's
Me Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi, welcome back. It's great to have Matt Dulian. I'm
talking to some lacrosse right now, and uh, you know,
I'm gonna open it's cousin Todd's on the phone. Let's
talk to cousin Todd. Cousin Todd Todd Fernard of Fernard
Properties is a contributor to the show when I'm on,
and he was also before I get into talking about
business with him. Todd isn't from a lacrosse family as well.
(00:28):
A great interview with me. Did you know, Andrew, you
guys went down and took Ben in the family. You
guys went down to Foxborough right.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We were down in the area. There was a whole
bunch of June of Uh, yeah, there was. There were
a cross tournaments going on all over U. Ben caught
a little bit of it. But but yeah, it's uh,
this is the season, man, It's all across all the time.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, it's incredible. So anyways, I do see Ben Fernard
following the footsteps of Matt Dooley. I do there similar.
I can tell you that right now I'm making a prediction.
No pressure on your son.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
OK, Cornell, here we come, Yeah, here you come, pany exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So the reason I want to talk to Todd Todd is
in commercial real estate. He understands business. And one of
the things I find fascinating Todd right now, because I
see it with my wife and her work habage and
in the company she's working with, is it was reading
this article where Amazon says we want everybody in the shop.
You got to be here five days a week, and
(01:27):
then Google says, well, wait a minute, we're going to
do three out of five. I know your company is
not as big as those companies, but how do you
feel about that?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Oh? I feel I have a hundred feelings on this.
I mean, and I don't think there's a one size
fits all by any stretch here. But I mean, I'm
fifty two, and I don't know. I'd rather be, you know,
in the car on the road, in my home office,
in the office. I get it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Get it.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
If I were twenty two, twenty four, thirty two and
I was trying to really build my career and make impressions,
I would think I would kind of feel like I
had to be in the office. I mean, it's hard
to make a really positive impression off a ZoomBox. But yeah,
it's it's a you know, we're far enough away from
(02:23):
the pandemic that this is no longer a safety issue,
but it's a way of life and as an employer,
and you know, this is still an ongoing wrestling match,
and so I mean, we talk about it, but it's
you know, on the one hand, I understand it, and
on the other hand, you know, this is it's time
(02:46):
to go back, man, It's time to get stuff done.
And I think the world is kind of grappling with this,
particularly in this country.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Okay, let me play Devil's advocate, because I don't I
don't know. I don't have an opinion out of the way,
because I'm just a slob that talks on the radio
at night when my wife makes all the money. I'm
just being truthful. So what about the argument that in
order to be competitive to get quality employees, because this
(03:18):
is Google's argument, right, Like you say, Okay, I want
anybody in five days a week. I can keep an
eye on people, we can generate ideas, I can have
team building, we can have team chemistry. But Google says, look,
we're losing very talented people, specifically women with children, that
say I want to be home two days a week
to see my kids. What do you say to that?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, I say they're not wrong. That there's a quality
of life element that I think COVID certainly opened our
eyes to what it feels like to spend more time
in and around your home and to still be productive.
So it makes sense that people would feel that way.
(03:59):
I have a twenty two year old who's headed off
to New York to go work in the investment banking field.
He will be in the office every day, every day
for more than twelve hours a day, and he needs
that in order to make an impression, learn shadow understand
(04:19):
the sort of the cadence of the industry. He's going
to have to be in that office and he will be.
I work in an industry of real estate where you
often are in the field at the property, and we've
realized through COVID that if our accountants are doing what
they do in putting invoices and you know, following up
(04:40):
on payables or receivables, they can do that from a
home computer and they won't miss a beat. And if
it's the right person, if it's a person who you
know and trust. Then have at it. You know, come
into the office a couple of days a week for
someone who is more customer oriented. You know, there's a
(05:00):
lot of industries where that just doesn't fly. It doesn't work.
And so again I repeat, but it's not a one
size fits all. But I I you know, I would
like to see my office mates more.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But for you, like when you say that, like, what
does that do for you personally?
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Sure? So, okay, it's fine to write an email, it's
fine to pick up the phone and call someone. But
think about how many interesting ideas and thoughts and sort
of you know, just the process of being in a
space with someone and thinking out loud with them and
being you know, bouncing a creative idea off or being
told by someone that's a dumb idea. But but why
(05:45):
don't you look at it this way? There are some
things that are just inherently face to face. There's also
there's certain kinds of information that you know, you can
I can communicate with you with my voice, and that's fine,
but you know, how I hold my hands, how I
sit in my chair, how I taste around, Like there's
(06:08):
all of these methods of communication that you don't have
when you are remote. So in terms of the quality
of ideas, in terms of sort of the process of
being collaborative, just just being around other smart people and
hearing what they're thinking and then you know, riffing with them.
That is it. That is an in person thing all
(06:29):
day long. They haven't created the virtual Maybe they have,
but but you know, nothing replaces being in the same
space as a person and feeling what they're feeling and
talking to them about that. So I'm still in that camp.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, I call it like you've experienced this with me.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
I I.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Hate texting. If I have to text one of the
five words, I pick up the phone and I call people,
which some people don't like and they find annoying. I
need personal interaction. I need to talk to a voice.
Texting is fine. Meet me at six. I'm fifteen minutes late. Okay, yes,
it's in my cousin Brian. Same thing. I felt like, Okay, look,
(07:15):
I'm writing a paragraph. This sucks. I'm getting on the phone. Yeah,
but that but I'm but I'm a dinosaur.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
No, but I mean, look, can you imagine the concept
of managing a group of people and not having the
ability to sit around a table to you know, talk
about the day in advance or talk about the you know,
what happened yesterday like it. You can only go so far.
(07:43):
I mean, text is entirely limiting, but but the phone
is has some limitations too, So you know, why would
I want to be back? I look the rhythm of
a work week. I like being and I like going
to work. I like being around people that I work with.
I like the energy that it sort of occurs when
you're in that space. And quite honestly, I love going home.
(08:07):
I love the concept of leaving work and saying I'm
now in another mode, I'm in my car, and then
I'm going to be home. I mean, there are things
that I don't know, we didn't give a lot of
thought to before twenty twenty, where you just had a
rhythm to the way the world worked and there was
something about it that was you know, effective, it was
(08:28):
it was productive. We adapted during those couple of years
at home, and then there's certain things that we kind
of held on to. You know, if there are chores
that I picked up, certain household chores during COVID, you
can't just hand them back so I still fold the laundry,
or I still unload, you know, do the dishes or
whatever the things are. And so my world shifted after that,
(08:52):
and I know a lot of peoples did too.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
The one thing about it now, I'm just going to
go to the other side of the argument because I
see it in my house. Instead of being in the car.
You're up and you're starting to work at six am.
You're in your office. You're working at six am. You're
not commuting. You don't have to commute home. You're in
your office till seven or Sunday morning, you go down
in your office and you're working, or you start doing
(09:16):
some stuff Saturday afternoon. If you're in your office five
days a week, that probably doesn't happen. Is there an
argument that can be made for that.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, there is. There is. There's the you know, for
some people, that hour, hour and a half long commute
three hours a day, when you combine it, it is
really really unproductive. Now I would argue for some people
that's like mental health one oh one to need that
time to separate, But that's another issue. I do think
that if everyone in the world were driven and productive
(09:49):
and at all times you were sort of capable of
plugging in. Well, then, yeah, that's a pretty beautiful image
where I can work from six to eight and I
grab some breakfast, maybe get a workout, and then I
can dive back into work. I can go pick the
kids up at one o'clock. But then I'm diving back in.
And that sounds on paper like a really brilliantly kind
of laid out schedule. The reality is you work from home.
(10:14):
There are constant you know, someone's knocking at the door,
you're on a conference call, what do you do? Kids
come home, they're bored, they want to you know, what
do you do? It's not as picture perfect as we'd
like to believe it is. There are moments, for sure,
and look, connectivity or you know, really good technology allows
(10:34):
me to sit at my home computer and no different,
I have access to every file and every sort of
ounce of technology. I can be productive. But again, I
come back to sort of the notion that like the
cadence of a really productive work day has morphed into
something very different. And so I don't know, there are
(10:57):
bits and pieces candidly of each that I really like
and kind of respect and want, But I do believe
that that we're more productive when we have a workplace
and a home place, and you are, you know, engaged
at work when you're at work, and then when you leave,
you know you're in another space. So I call me
(11:18):
a dinosaur if you want, but I'm still kind of
in that space.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I want to talk about the sales process because I
think when I was in sales one hundred years ago,
it was still an in person business. Is it's still
an in person business. That's coming up next with Todd Fernard,
CEO of and our Properties.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
After this, it's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Boston's news.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Radio carry Tageray for Dan Ringer and WBZ Sam Metler,
the moderate from the West Coast and former camp made
of my guest Todd Fernard George. I said, eleven o'clock.
Now Sam comes on because he believes that everybody's screwed,
Republicans and Democrats, which in Los Angeles makes a public
evnemy number one, so he will, Yeah, he goes after everybody.
(12:03):
So that's coming up at eleven o'clock right here on WBC.
I want to talk about the sales process. This is
something I did when I started out. I was in radio.
I was working part time just and I worked in
I sold bank, I sold God. Here's another connection. I
sold Lauren stanchions of all things. You know. Oh, there
you go, velvet ropes, velvet ropes. Woo. The mark up
(12:24):
on that stuff was incredible. No one of those guys
were rich. I Amazon's great. Like I want to buy soap, fine,
I want to order some batteries, fine. I don't want
to have a car delivered to my house. Now. I'm
not going to mention any company names because it works
for some people and it doesn't work for others. You know,
(12:44):
in downtown Boston, there's that big thing there on mass
av I think where they they showed cars that you
can buy or you can whatever. It's a thing for
carv on. Like you like basing cars online. I can't buy.
I have to go sit in a car. I have
to go talk to somebody. So talk about the sales process,
(13:07):
in how you feel that that has changed, and in
how it varies.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Sure, so I'll say this, I mean, technology is, it's
it's everywhere, it's ubiquitous, it's all around us. It is uh,
you know, and and you'd be wise to sort of
figure out how to use it, of course, but for us,
and we're in the business of filling space. We're in
the business of creating spaces and then finding tenants to
(13:36):
occupy those spaces. And so there are all kinds of
great tech tech advancements that allow us to, you know,
quickly root out every operator of this type, of this size.
Here's their name, here's their number, go talk to them.
And if at that point you then sent your mass
(13:57):
email out to them, in my opinion, you'd get absolutely
nowhere that you know, then when it becomes a sales
process or a pitch of sorts, that is a human
that's a human endeavor. That is something where you know,
tell me where, tell me.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Where to drive, or who to call.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
I would much prefer to see that person and you know,
face to face, talk to them, walk into their store,
tell them why I think they would do better in
my location than the location they're in. But but to me,
sales is this art form, that is this It's this
combination of you know, how do you use technology to
your benefit, but then how do you then use your
(14:35):
human skills to essentially make the sale. I think that's true.
I think that's true everywhere but I'm sure there are
examples where you know it is purely a you know,
you've got to you've got to send out a million
emails or a million text messages or in d MS
or whatever, and then that's how you create your your
(14:58):
your sales. But I don't know. I mean to your
original question about working from home. If you're twenty four
years old and you're an aggressive salesperson and you're willing
to get into the office every day and get on
the road and make sales calls in person, I got
to believe you've got such a massive leg up on
every other twenty four year old that wants to work
(15:18):
from home for three days a week. So that's my take.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Well, I going back to my sales days. I think
what technology allows you to do is that you can
qualify a prospect. It's a rifle shot approach versus a
what we would call like a shotgun approach. I'm sorry
about the weaponryturn yeah, but you know, or a laser approach.
(15:44):
I should say where I can look at my clients,
and I could say through technology, I save time because
I'll look at maybe twenty five prospects and I can
look at the details of what they're doing, and I go,
you know, ten of those people, I don't have a shot. Yeah,
file maybe those ten. So if I take might and
use my time and hone in on those ten and
(16:07):
go knocking on those doors, that's the way to do it.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I agree, And I think the key part of what
you just said is knocking on their door, right, Like,
ultimately you want to get in front of them. You
want to literally shake their hand, you want to look
them in the eye. You want them to feel like
they know. I remember Gary Tangway, he sold me those
You know that there's a point of connectivity. And then
(16:32):
once you have that point of connectivity, now it's a
relationship that Now it's your job to sort of maintain that.
And whether that means you know, cocktails on a Thursday
night or a Red Sox game, or just a note
checking in that there's a familiarity. You know, at the
end of the day, the human aspect there is what
will make the sale, you know, and look, there are
(16:57):
people who sell widgets and whether you get that for
three cents or two cents, that's that's what we'll determine.
And so you know, perhaps for that salesperson, you know,
a personal relationship is a bit less important, but generally speaking,
there is no substitute for ticket items.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Like if someone's coming to the hard properties and you
have a space, right and lord knows, I mean, you've
had to make adjustments now where well, for we were
at the Lacrosse Championships, and I have seen Patriot Place
change over. And I know that's that's not your your
your area, that's a craft thing. But you know, I know,
I remember when Patriot Pig started, where god you had
(17:37):
what's the it.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Was just big name that in the beginning, it was
just big name national retailers. They took a mall, they
they've made it an outdoor mall, and that's what they did.
And by the way, fifteen twenty years ago, that was
good enough. That's all you had to do. But the
the you know, in the world of retail, real estate
or place making or call it whatever you want, it
(18:00):
had better be the most unique, the one of a kind.
You have to get off your couch to come have
this experience. And the Crafts have done a really nice
job with Patriot Place. You could point at any number
of you know, outdoor, interesting, compelling retail experiences, but that
as you say, that's evolved wildly over the last just
(18:22):
ten years.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Right, Well, what I noticed with the down at the
Lacrosse Championships is because when I was doing the period
game show, you know, you had Victoria's Secret. That was
the big thing. So we're gonna put Victoria's secret whether
people come in the clothing thing didn't really work. But
what they have now is entertainment bars, restaurants, ice cream shots,
and the place is jammed, so that yeah, you know,
(18:43):
it's not necessarily it's not necessarily a shopping experience. It's
an entertainment experience completely. I mean, we use this term.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
They're all un they've created an unamazonable experience. It is
all the things that you can't get on your cell phone. Right,
you can't drink a cocktail on your phone. You can't
you know, go on a date. You probably can. I
should take that back, but you know, you the things
that are compelling enough for you to leave your couch
(19:13):
or leave your apartment or what have you and go
out that they they've all realized that, like it's it's
about creating an experience or an entertainment option for people,
or several options. That's too good, too good to pass up.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I know you love clothes.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I do.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Do you have to go into a store?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I do?
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I have?
Speaker 3 (19:39):
I have I have to touch the sweater in the
same way that you may want to, you know, feel
the avocado before you pick your avocado. I mean, I
actually I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I enjoy grocery shopping.
I enjoy going into a store and seeing sort of
what it feels like or or looks like. I'm I am.
(20:00):
I've realized that I'm not good at five five things
to return four of them. I'll buy five things and
forget to return them and then be pissed off at
myself for six months. So you know it it there.
I'm old school in that regard, but I actually think
that even retailers are getting better at making their store
(20:21):
experience worth going Going to it is a better experience.
It's it's I mean, I think we're seeing these things
innovate in front of our eyes.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I agreed, like an idiot. I sometimes on Instagram, I'll
see something like a shirt, Oh I like. My wife
laughs at me. Anything I buy on Instagram is always
a piece of crap. Yeah, it's a piece of and
I go, oh my god, what a deal. Twenty nine bucks. Yeah,
because it costs five cents. You know, you still have
to go grocery shopping. You still have to go buy clothes.
(20:53):
And I do remember this, this was a while ago.
You probably know the details, but the Brighters of the
right felt grocery shopping is going to become a deliverable system, right,
that's what's going to happen. And yeah, I mean, well,
the Amazon bought you know, Whole Foods, and they had
this system, they had distribution channels, they had warehouses set up,
(21:16):
and it failed miserably because of what you just said.
Nobody wants to buy a cump quot online. How about that?
Put that on a billboard.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
There you go. No, no one thought you could use
the word kum quote tonight, but there it is. You did.
I actually think that grocery shopping not all not for
everyone and not all the time. But I think there
is something in our DNA that actually likes the process
of picking the things and browsing and and you know,
(21:52):
you build a list, you go in, you check off
the things on the lip that there's something really.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Great about that. That's an accomplishment.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we like like many families. I mean,
I think we use instacart from time to time, and
it's mostly for you know, the paper towels and the
tissue you know, the tissue boxes or whatever those things
that are. You know, you don't need to you know
what it is produce meat. You know, there's certain things
(22:19):
that I take. I enjoy the process of going to
the meat counter and picking the actual steak that we're
going to have. That like, that's you know, that's just
part of the game. And if you look at how
Whole Foods and many other grocers have they've created their
displays knowing full well that that's part of the whole processes.
You want to be wowed by the produce and wowed
(22:41):
by the the meat counter. So I I you know,
I think that grocery, the grocery world has experimented with
a bunch of different concepts that you know, kind of
worked for a little bit, but did not take over
the industry. And it wasn't you know that the death
of retail didn't happen because of the cell phone, but
(23:03):
people still talk about it quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Todd, You're great. I appreciate you coming on buddy, thank you.
Do you have any questions from me? No? No, no, no, okay. Anyways,
Todd Fernard, CEO of Ferd Properties, I don't know if
you're the CEO, you're the president, you're the boss, you're
the grand poop whatever, but I but I really appreciate
you coming on and Lennings a midsec to this. I'll
take some calls on this and see how people feel,
(23:27):
like do you enjoy working from home? Do you would you?
Do you like going in the office?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Six one seven, two, five four thirty. That's coming out
of next Todd and Joy and I talked to you soon.
Thank you, Thanks buddy Ie Todd with us here on WBZ.
What do you think next? On wbz's night Side.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
To work from home or not work from home? What
do you think? You're an employee or an employer. I
want to know what is on your mind about this
at six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty. I
think it does come down to the individual. I can
tell you that my wife is a workaholic. She's up
and at him at six am every day and she
could be on zooms and phone calls at eight o'clock
(24:14):
at night. She is amazing. Thank god somebody works in
our house. But that's not always the case. There's a
lot to be said for camaraderie. I mean, Todd Fernard
was joining us earlier. You know, there are times you
feed off other employees, your co employees. I feed off them.
I get ideas, I brainstorm, I get motivated. I know,
(24:37):
I like to be around people. I do a better
job of tasks when I'm around people. If it's just
me in a room, I get distracted.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I started looking on Instagram. I start buying crappy stuff
that falls apart three weeks later. I you know, let
me get a snack. I'll be right better. Let me
get a snack. You know, I would say I'm not
productive at home. I need That's why I come out.
I mean, I could work from I could do the
(25:10):
show from my house for WBC. I like to come
in the studio. I like to be here. I like
to see the people in the studio. I like to
see the people in the newsroom. I would not be
You may think I suck at this job, whatever I've
heard it before. I would not be as good at
this job from home. End of story period. For a while,
(25:33):
when I was on television doing sports during the pandemic,
we did the show from home on our laptops. I
was not as good. Not a chance, no way. What
do you think? Six one, seven, two, five, four to
ten thirty. I'm gonna go to Rick and Natick. Rick's
gonna tell us what he thinks on WBC's Night Side. Hello, Rick, Hey,
how you doing.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I'm sorry I didn't get your first name.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's Gary Jilly.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Well, first of all, you have a very good boy,
and you moved the show along nice and quick.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I like that, thank y.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
I did commercial real estate for about twenty years. The
last gentleman that you had on the guests was very
knowledgeable as far as sales. I did it with other corporations,
but in real estate my business. I would go out
and knock on doors and walk around the property. First
of a warehouse or matter fact, building, and I would
(26:29):
take a look like there's too many cars here, or
there's too many trucks backed up, or I'd speak to
the warehouse manager and I'd say, what's the name of
the president here? And you know, how are you guys
doing it if they said, oh my god, we're really busy,
We've got to get more space. Then when I walked in,
and if I got a chance to talk to the guy,
I already knew they had a problem. And you know,
(26:50):
I already had his name in those days when you
walked in the secretary a lot of times but just
you don't want to get rid of you. But most
guys in real estate, most companies, always wanted to talk
about their real estate. And if I hadn't gone out
and talked to companies every day, I never would have
been as successful as I was. And I probably closed
(27:11):
eighty percent of all the customers that I ever talked to,
only because I sat down with them. And these were
vice presidents and presidents and companies, and I would find
out what their problem was, and then I would turn
around and say, hey, here's how I can solve it.
Or they would say to me, hey, what did that
building down the streets though for? Or where's the featus rate?
(27:33):
You can get me for another fifty thousand square feet
of space. But the guys in Boston that did it
by the phone, they had no clue what the building
looked like, what the neighborhood looked like what the guy
looked like. And in the old days, sales were personal
relationships that you had with people, and if you were
any good at it, you had a good relationship. This
(27:54):
idea of the computers is fined for certain things, but
I think a lot of people don't. I think they
missed the real challenging fun of sales, of meeting people
and getting out, being the fresh year and solving something
versus sitting and looking at some they have computer eight
hours a day. Just my opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well, I agree with you, and I think in the
sales process you mentioned listening, and when I was in it, briefly,
the best salespeople I worked with listened, and you listened,
But you also read body language. Yep, you read the situation.
You could see the stress on someone's face, you could
(28:36):
get you know, you could read the subtext if you will,
And it's hard to do that when you're not one
on one with a person. And like I discussed with Todd,
look you're gonna buy soap online, fine, but regardless, there
are still going to be a lot of reasons for
one on one sales. There's no doubt about it. Rick,
Thank you for the phone call. I appreciate it. Go ahead, yes, sir, it's.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Going to buy a car, you want to sit it in.
If you go to buy a pair of shoes, you
want to see what they feel like.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I could never buy a car online. People do it.
I know people do it. I can't do it. Not
a chance, not a chance.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
But I'd like to tell you more often.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Rick, I appreciate the phone call. Six one, seven, ten
thirty is the number here on WBZ. That's good to
Jim all the way to Kansas City, Jim, thanks for
listening on WBZ get any.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Thanks for filling in for Dan.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Thanks buddy.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
So they say ninety percent of what's communicated is nonverbal.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Right right, right right.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
So here, I am a guy, so twelve hour credit
hours past an associate degree from a community college. And
so I know I'm not the only one that thought
of this, but I see the solution is you just
tell people that don't want to come into work every day. Look,
we think you're be twenty percent more effective if you
do come into work every day. So to come into
(30:02):
work every day, we'll pay you X plus twenty and
if you don't, we'll pay you X and I kind
of know people a little bit, and you know what
walks and you know what dots? Right, yeah, money, Yeah,
So but there must be some part of the equation
that I'm missing, because otherwise I'm sure other people have
thought of this.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well, you know, it's interesting. I had lunch with my
neighbor Bill Reich, who has been in business for thirty
five years, and we were talking about this, and he's
big on being in the office, and his feeling was,
if you want to work nine to two and then
go home, fine, you're gonna get paid from nine to two.
He's exactly what you say. But his feeling was that's
(30:44):
where ideas come from. There's also a team bonding aspect
when you're working for a company, and I did feel
this when I was in sales. I worked for a
company that is no longer a business call I don't
think it is called Moorice Bluid, and I made long
time friendships there with people people that I still talk
to today. And you know, the sales guys, you know,
(31:08):
or working with the production people. We would go out
in the field and we would make deals and you
come back and you talk to the production people. This
is what we need to do. You work with the installers.
There is a camaraderie element to it where you're working
as a team, and that can work. That can be beneficial.
That gets people pumped up, That gets people feeling that
(31:28):
they're involved in something that they're appreciated. Because I'll tell
you something, Jim, most of the people want to do
a good job. I still believe that, and they just
have to be recognized and they need to be patted
on the back a little bit. Now, some people need
a kick in the gass, but I think most people
need it, and it's tough to give them that pad
on the back digitally.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
You know when the boss walks in, it says, good job.
That is a month worth of currency. Okay, there's something
to that, you know. In my opinion, there is something
to that, you know what I think. The exception I
do feel, Jim, is that like Google. I see where
(32:11):
Google's coming from, and I think you have to do
it on a case by case basis. If you have
an employee that is a star that produces no matter
where they're located. If they're at home, they get it done,
if they're at work, they get it done. For whatever reason,
they want to work Fridays from home, but they continue
(32:32):
to produce and you may lose that person. Then you say,
all right, you're good, we can do that now if somebody.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Else, Okay, The way I think I would do that
is instead of saying if you stay home, you're going
to get X minus twenty, I would say you're still
going to get your X, but if you come in
you'll get X plus ten. You'll get X plus twenty.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah. But let me ask you this though.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
If you tell if you tell them you're going to
get X minus twenty, then they might leave or they
might be repeated elsewhere. But if you still if you
tell them, look, you're productive. We know you're productive. You're
still going to get your X. But if you're willing
to come into work those extra two days a week,
then we'll give you X plus twenty, X plus ten,
X plus thirty, whatever you know, and just let them
(33:22):
make the decision.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
But then you're giving the people a bonus just for
showing up. It's a unique idea.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Well, it's not for showing up, it's because they're more
productive when they show up. We've already just okay, I
got to go.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
No, no, no, no, thanks to I appreciate the call.
I don't disagree with you, but thank you.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I know I know you don't.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
I don't disagree. But if you got to go, that's cool.
It's certainly a viable alternative. Appreciate it, Jim, It's a
viable There are situations where you could lose a good part.
You know, even if you give them the twenty percent,
if you say you're going to make twenty percent. Last
if you work from home, you could lose some good people.
(34:01):
Let's say, well, I'm going to go to work somewhere else.
I think you have to look at at a case
by case basis. But I think what we are learning overall,
and what companies are learning overall, is that you're more
productive and you're stimulated when you're with other people. That's
the bottom line. That's how I feel. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty. Maybe you disagree. What do you guys think?
(34:23):
Coming up at eleven o'clock, my buddy the freak from
the left Coast, the California Moderate, which makes him a
Republican nosed Neck of the woods, Sam Medler At eleven
on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
You're on Night Side with Dan ray On WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Welcome back. Six one, seven, two, five, four thirty is
the telephone number here on wbc UH. Sam Medler joins us.
Coming up in just a few minutes at eleven o'clock,
and we're going to talk about We'll talk about everything.
I love to talk about everything with Sammy, Uh, but
get into what's going on in Washington, and I have
to be honest with you. Where the hell are we at?
Wait a minute, the terriffs in or out the court
(35:07):
said no, but then they said yes, and it's like
it's mind numbing, and then it's just I gotta figure
this out. But Samuel sent me straight in that situation. Now,
Elon Musk, He's gone, you know something. You don't really
last long with President Trump, do you. I mean, if
(35:27):
you're in if you're with his if you're with him,
your shelf life is about a half a year. Then
he gets tired with you, he gets bored, he talks
to you aside. Oh my word, it's just bananas. It's
absolutely bananas. Back to the work thing that we were discussing.
(35:50):
I think it's a way to energize people. I think
it's a way to build camaraderie. I do think, however,
that there are companies that have to make allowances. For example,
if you have a greatmployee they're going to leave, they say,
I need to work it. You have to make exceptions
to the rule, and if people don't like that, you
just say, look too bad. If you are as valuable
as that person and you wanted that situation, I would
(36:13):
give it to you. But you don't work as hard,
you're not as smart, you don't mean as much to
the company. That's one of the problems I do think
with America here as I get on a soapbox, is
we need to generalize everything. Everybody needs to be treated
the same. No, you don't you be you're You should
(36:34):
be treated on the value that you bring to the situation.
That's how we built the damn place.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It goes back to the everybody plays scenario. No, everybody
doesn't play. Now. I don't know how this works with
labor laws. Of course, I'm talking out of my butt
as usual. But if you have a company of two
hundred people, why do you have to say, Okay, here's
the situation. If you want to go home on Friday,
(37:01):
you can no it's a merit based situation. If I
think is the boss that you can handle the responsibility
of working from home, then you can work from home.
If you are as productive working from home on Friday
as you are in the office, fine, But if I
don't think you will be, you don't get to do it.
And then what would happen with that person, man or woman? Whatever?
(37:24):
Would they go cry? Would they say it's not fair, No,
it's fair. It's based on your evaluation as an employee. Now,
if you're working internationally, now here's another situation. If you're
working for a company that is all over the world
and you go into an office and in the office
(37:46):
you're on zooms all day because you're talking to people
in Florida, or you're talking to people in China, or
you're talking to people on the West Coast or in
katman Do or the Galapa Ghost wherever, really matter, where
you are probably not. I don't think it does. I
(38:07):
don't think it does. Also, human contact makes you smarter.
You can read all you want, you can listen to
podcasts all you want, but human interaction makes you smarter
(38:27):
because you're observing human behavior, you're observing how the world works.
You're getting the subtext. What is the person really saying
to you. You don't get that in an email. We've
seen people get pissed off. I've had people get pissed
off at me because I've sent an email and I go,
what are you talking about? I go, relaxed, He I didn't.
(38:48):
You can't detect tone in an email. You can't detect
body language in an email, but you can in an interaction.
How do you generate ideas? Can you brainstorm digitally? Eh?
Maybe on a zoom. Maybe if you're in different parts
(39:08):
of the country. But if you're on the fifth floor
and the other person's on the third floor and you're competing,
you're talking on a zoom. That's ridiculous. That's just lazy.
Get your ass out of the chair and go one
on one. I don't think it's so much that companies
feel that we need to keep an eye on people.
I think they feel that human interaction generates ideas and
(39:32):
generates productivity. Here's the basis of an idea. I think
we should do this. That person says, well, what about
if we try that? How about if we add on
to that. You can't do that on an email. You
can't do it on a text? Can you do it
on a zoom? Maybe? Maybe? And I think that's what
(39:53):
companies are finding out. Plus, isn't it more fun to
be with people? Oh? By the isn't it more enjoyable
to come in and do a radio show with Rob
Brooks on the other side of the glass, to see
Dan in the newsroom, to come in and see people.
Isn't it more enjoyable?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Plus than you can gossip. I mean really, when it
comes to working from home, I gotta tell you, the
office gossip has probably gone down greatly. I love office
gossip the best. Who's sleeping She's sleeping with him? Get out?
Reason number one on the Tangue lists to return to
work five days a week. Office gossip. Sam Metler, The
(40:45):
moderate freak from the West Coast Next on WBZ
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