May 6, 2025 • 36 mins
We welcome Norfolk County Sheriff Patrick McDermott and Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Bowler on NightSide this evening during Corrections Officers Appreciation Week. Join Dan as he speaks to the sheriffs about some of the issues they are tackling in MA such as immigration, the opioid epidemic, and more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray ONU BZY, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody, as we are head into
our nine o'clock hour, and tonight we're going to spend
an hour talking with two sheriffs here in Massachusetts. We
have only fourteen sheriffs in Massachusetts, and we have two
of them with us tonight. Delighted to welcome Norfolk County
(00:28):
Sheriff Patrick McDermott, Sheriff McDermott, welcome back to Nightside. How
are you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm doing great, Dan, Thanks for having me on tonight,
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're very welcome in joining us from the other side
of Massachusetts, from the western side, from Berkshire County Sheriff
Thomas Bowler, Sheriff Bowler, welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Thanks Dan. Great, great to be on and thank you
for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Have I got that name? McDermott's an easy one for
you know?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
For me?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Is it bowler? A bowler? Want to make sure that
I did it correctly?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
It right with Bowler?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Bowler? All right, all right, now you've been a sheriff
out there for about fourteen fifteen years, as I understand it, right.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, it's twenty eleven.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So you come from a law enforcement background. You worked
as a police detective.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yep. I started my career as a police officer in
nineteen eighty five, and I was signed to detective Brull
in the latter part of eighty eight and eighty nine,
and then ran for sheriff at the PD for twenty
five years and ran for sheriff in twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
All right, and Sheriff McDermott, you had a little bit
of a political pedigree, I would say from what the
research I've done, so both of you have come to
a very important office, but sort of by a different path,
correct Sheriff McDermott.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, So I started right after law school. I was
a prosecutor at the Suffer County District Attorney's Office at
the Boston Municipal Court, and then became a city councilor
in Quincy and then ran to Norfolk County Register of
Probate and served for eighteen years running the probate and
family court before the opportunity presented itself to run for
sheriff in Norfolk County and I've served there now for
(02:14):
in my fifth year as sheriff and going along with.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Stride, and you're also the president of the Sheriff's Association
here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Correct, correct, Yeah, we get elected, we kind of share
the position over a couple of years. It's forth to
only fourteen of us, so it goes back and forth
for a time. But the president serves two years as
the leader of our fourteen sheriff's offices, advocating for the
office of sheriff, whether it's at the legislature or out
in the community or with our friends like yourself and
(02:44):
the press.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, so let's let's talk again. You're in a county
that is very much more of an urban county, urban
and suburban county. Norfolk County. Sheriff Bowler is in a
county that's I don't think it's fair to call it
rural sheriff, but I certainly it's not a highly urban
(03:10):
Berkshire County. How would you how would you want us
to describe your county?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Well, I'd say Berkshire County. If you really look at
the state of Massachusetts, there's thirty towns and two cities
in Berkshire County, and going north to south from we
cover from from the Vermont line to the Connecticut line.
It's a good of the state, yes, but it was
only we only have a population about one hundred and
(03:36):
forty three to one hundred and forty five thousand here
in Berkshire.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
County, Okay, and Sheriff McDermott, I'm guessing that your population
is a multiple of that.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So yeah, Norfolk County kind of surrounds, you know where
we're abutted by Worcester County, Middlesex County, and Suffolk County
to the north and east I guess of US or west,
and then to the south of US is Plymouth County
well as Bristol County, so we're kind of locked in
the middle. But Norfolk County is considered kind of a
medium sized county in Massachusetts. We have about seven hundred
(04:08):
and sixty thousand residents in this county, so it's definitely different.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So that's good size county, that's sure. Okay. So first
question is what are the are the commonalities that and
both of you can answer this in any order that
you like. What are the commonalities do you think that
each of your counties are dealing with in terms of
prison population, crime, you know, problems at the top of
(04:35):
the list that each of you are dealing with again,
different circumstances geographically, perhaps different circumstances, different situations demographically, but
what are the commonalities? Is it all? Is it always
going to be drugs that's going to be the driving
force for your clientele?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well, I could probably say Dan Sheriff McDermott here that
you know, the there's commonalities across all of our county,
throughout the Commonwealth, and certainly sheriffs have a predominant as
a primary role of care and custody of inmates justice
involved individuals that are serving up to two and a
half years in the House of Correction or awaiting pre trial.
(05:17):
But when it comes to offenders that are in our
respective jurisdiction, one of the challenges of many, but the
biggest one is the fact that we do have on average,
you know, sixty five seventy percent of our individuals and
custody or having a diagnosable substance use or mental health disorder.
I think that's something that is significantly different than it
(05:39):
was about twenty thirty years ago, you know, when crime
was still crime. But I think the population that we're
serving is a little bit more complex than it was
back in the day, but across the board, across the commonwealth,
that's a big challenge for sheriffs as well as members
of the Department of Corrections who are challenged with, you know,
the care and custod of these men and women who
(06:00):
are largely going through a lot of a lot of
significant trauma and problems which caused the criminal behavior in
the first place. It gets them jammed up into the
criminal justice system.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Sure ball of similar situation out there are a little
different in any respect, No, it's.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
About the same. We have. You know, about eighty five
percent of of our justice involved individuals are you know,
have a substitute disorder. Probably about seventy four percent are
dealing with mental health challenges as well. You know, we
deal with the individuals that we deal with. We find
(06:38):
that and keep in mind in not everybody that comes
to our facilities at the direction of the courts are
all bad people. They've just made some bad choices and so,
but we deal with we have people with a lack
of education, the mental health challenges, medical challenge. We have
seen the chronic disease or sickness or is skyrocketed from
(07:02):
even when I started fourteen years ago. People that are
coming to our facilities. Are are you know, more sick
than they were years ago. So that presents a big,
big challenge economically or financially for our office, in a
strain in our medical medical health departments as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I should also mention, if I'm not mistaken, that this
is a period this week of awareness. Mental health awareness
is this month actually, and also this week we observed
National Correction Officers Week. Next week is National Police Week,
and of course later on this month we deal with
(07:47):
Memorial Day and remembering those who who have served in uniform.
And you know, we we forget sometimes the sacrifices that
people make, both from the military but also from the
law enforcement division. So that's why we're talking today. We
(08:10):
have two sheriffs, the president of the Massachusetts Sheriff Association,
Sheriff Patrick McDermott in Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Bowler. If
you'd like to join and ask questions, you're welcome to
join the conversation six one, seven, two, four ten thirty
six seven nine three one ten thirty entertain calls. Again,
(08:35):
I ask you to just keep it pretty much on topic.
When I get back, I want to talk about a
little bit about the challenges that you have in terms
of the clientele. What percentage of the people who you're
dealing with do you think really are looking to get
their lives straightened out and get back on the straight
(08:57):
and narrow, and what percentage cheff giving up whole? And
how do you deal with and do you do you
recognize that differences those differences amongst your population. We're back
on Nightside. My name is Dan Ray. We're talking about
crime and punishment. Really, crime and incarceration would be the
way to talk about this hour tonight. Feel free to
(09:18):
join us back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
This It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
With me are two sheriffs from Massachusetts, Norfolk County Sheriff
Patrick McDermott and Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Boehler. And we
will get to phone calls, and we have phone calls waiting,
so I want to get to them fairly quickly. But
I'd just like to finish up with a hot topic,
and that is cooperating with the federal government. Federal government
(09:50):
has changed. I know both of you are democratic officials.
How can can either or both of you explain how
this system should work when you have someone in custody
that the federal government wants to to get in contact
with or take custody off. I'm sure you're not putting
(10:11):
up roadblocks, but what did the Feds have to do
and what are they not doing that is that's causing
a lot of the controversies.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Well, you know, this has been something that we've dealt with.
You know, with the change of administration comes with change
of policies or more aggressive policies, as we've seen in
Massachusetts in terms of the ramp up towards ICE and
you know, we're working towards you know, you know, illegal immigration.
So the Massachusetts Sheriffs are kind of on the forefront
of this. You know, we've been having discussions with ICE
(10:41):
and with with with folks in the federal government about
the difference with Massachusetts law. And you know, the Massachusetts
Sheriffs pointed out that the Supreme Judicial Court in twenty
seventeen ruled that it is unlawful for the state and
local law enforcement agencies in Massachusetts to detain anybody solely
(11:02):
on the basis of the US immigrations and a Customs
enforcement detainer beyond the time that that individual would otherwise
be entitled to be released from our custody. So if
an individual is coming up on release, we do have
ongoing discussions with ICE. When an ICE attention comes in,
we do notify that the ICE representatives they come in.
(11:26):
They will often interview the people that are in our custody,
but it's the ICE obligation to make sure that they're
in the facility. When those individuals are preparing to be released,
we're not allowed to hold on to them any longer
than they ought to be. So it really is somewhat
in the past that's been a big disconnect with ICE.
(11:46):
We've had documentation in the Norfolk Sheriff's Office where ICE
has been contacted and specifically we have been told we're
not coming to get the individual. So the head that
are disconnect in the past think that because of the
more ramped up, you know, efforts by ICE, there's a
lot more activity going on within our local jail system
(12:09):
and the Massachusetts sheriffs will uphold the law. That is
our obligation, and we will make sure we're upholding Massachusetts law,
and we are happy to cooperate and work with ICE,
but we will not violate the oaths of office we
took to uphold the Massachusetts laws.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Now, sheriffmcdermott, I believe I recognize your voice. You recently
went to Washington, as I understand, and actually met with
the new Attorney General, Pam Bondi, and the new head
of the FBI, Cash Ptel. Correct.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Correct, And you know I said, you know, with all
the politics that surrounds yeah, you know, the Trump administration
and Massachusetts being kind of a targeted state, and there
are targeted states relative to those that don't necessarily see
IDI with the new administration, my attitude and as sheriffs,
and I think sure if Fola would share this with me,
(12:59):
And you know, we're both members of national organizations of
sheriffs from across the county the country. You know, when
you take the oath of office as a sheriff and
you put a badge on your chest, politics really kind
of goes by a little bit of a wayside. We
actually just look towards public safety issues. So my obligation,
you know, as a president of the Massachusetts Sheriff as
(13:19):
just the sheriff, you know, I need to be in
the arena if I'm going to do battle. But I
needed to see to I with Attorney General BONDI with
the FBI Director Cash Bettel. I've met with Secretary of
Education Lynda McMahon on some of the problems with grants.
So we need to be as as Teddy Roosevelt talked
about the man in the arena, if you're going to
(13:39):
at least have of debates and articulate and argument, you've
got to be where you know the debate is, and
that's going to be in Washington, d C. And I
intend to spend a lot of time down there just
kind of educating Washington bureaucrats about what we're doing in Massachusetts,
on all the great things we're doing, but also letting
(14:01):
them know that we're just not going to be necessarily
bullied by statements by federal officials about how we should
handle things in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
How do you balance that off with US versus Arizona
the twenty eleven decision, which basically said that federal immigration
law preempts the immigration law nationally. That was the case
where the governor of Arizona, Republican governor Governor Brewer, decided
she wanted to have stricter immigration enforcement than was being
(14:34):
utilized by the Obama administration back in twenty ten, and
Supreme Court basically ruled, hey, the FED set immigration law,
their word was preempted. Now, I don't know how you
reconcile that decision with the Lun decision. Is it kind
of puts I think Massachusetts sheriffs in a difficult, awkward position.
(14:55):
Or am I misreading one or both of those cases.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
The Arizona case was twenty twelve. I believe with the
Supreme Court ruling says states cannot enforce federal law, we
we won't be enforcing federal law. Lun just simply your
firms that we can't do ICE enforcement outside of what
and then we get into the weeds with a formal
contract with ICE, which is under this much know as
(15:21):
the two eighty seven gen contract. And there is always,
as you know, Dan, and you know, as both of
us are lawyers, you know, there's there's consistently conflicts of
law that come up, and there's usually those particular matters
that that settle things a little bit differently in states.
By states, you'll oftentimes have different outlooks as to how
laws can be enforced. And you know, we've never had
(15:44):
Arizona come down in the twenty twelve case, and it
was discussed in the twenty seventeen case in Lun. But
that's the case as far as we're concerned in Massachusetts
that we are obligated to follow.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So you you follow Lun is what I'm hearing you say. Correct, correct,
But you know as well as I do that in
recent memory, going back to fifty seven in Arkansas with
Governor Farbas and President Eisenhower, those cases involved desegregation cases
where Arkansas and eventually Alabama two were forced rightfully so
(16:21):
to integrate their school systems. They said that they had
state laws in their states which we were in conflict
with the federal law, and the federal law tends to prevail.
It's going to be interesting to see how how this
all works out. You guys are in a tough spot,
no question about it, and they don't envy your position.
But both of you, I think understand the circumstances and
(16:47):
the concern that people have with people who are here illegally,
who have committed some pretty serious crimes. I got to
take a break, Sheriff Buller. We're going to get your
take on that as well.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
We'll get to phone calls along the way as well.
We'll got a quick news break here at the bottom
of the hour. We the only line open right now.
We get two lines at six, one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty. I'm going to ask everyone when you do call,
please be polite. Ask whatever questions you want, but again,
don't need to make speeches, just just simple direct questions
(17:22):
and they will give you direct These these two gentlemen,
I think are very capable of giving direct answers as
you've just seen. We'll be back on Night's Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w B Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Welcome back everyone. We're talking with the two Massachusetts sheriff's
tonight in Norfolk County, Patrick McDermott, Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas
Bohler Shreff Bowler.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
You didn't get a chance to comment on how you
deal with immigration issues, and certainly in the context of
yous versus Arizona and the lung lung decision, which seemed
to me to be have some inherent contradictions between the
two of them.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Do you want to comment on what the status is
out in Berkshire County?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Sure, I go along with what Sheriff McDermott has stated earlier,
we have always worked with ICE in the past. We've
had incidents as well where we've notified ICE on certain
individuals that they've had detainers on and we basically put
the onus back onto ICE whether they want to pick
(18:27):
these individuals pick them up or not. We have had
in the past where they never showed up. Recently, obviously
with this new administration, they seem to be following up
on a lot of the individuals that we call them on.
And of course we don't have a lot up here
in Berkshire County, but we've had a couple here and there.
But basically what Patrick mcdervis, we follow the law and
(18:47):
we work with our law enforcement partners in this, and
I think it's very important that we continue to have
a good positive dialogue and relationship with them when it
comes to the public safety issues with this. You know,
we will not hold anybody on just a detainer. The
only way we would hold somebody if there is a
(19:08):
judicial warrant UH or a judicial warrant from signed by
a federal judge that would allow us to keep somebody
beyond their detainer. But as far as the detainers go,
we notify ICE as we always do, and put the
onus back on them whether they show up for the
release or not.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So what I'm hearing you saying, if I'm incorrect, please
correct me that during the the Biden years, if you will,
the attitude of ICE seems to be a little bit different.
You know, we have a deputy director, Tom Lyons from
(19:47):
todd Lyons excuse me, Tom Lyons the Sun from from
the Boston area, and they're a little bit more aggressive.
It sounds to me like they're moving more quickly. When
you notify that you have someone in your custody for
whom they have a detainer, you're not going to hold
them for three weeks or two weeks or a week
for that matter. But it sounds to me like the
(20:08):
Trump administration's ICE are a little more aggressive in terms
of moving quickly then the the Biden administration was. Is
what I'm hearing you say. If I'm missing that, please
correct me.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Well, it's not so much. The Biden administration was also
even prior to the Biden administration, So it just seems
with this new administration that that things have obviously ramped
up a little bit. But we still we still follow
you know, we follow our law here. If it's a detainer,
(20:41):
which is just a simple request from an ICE agent
to hold somebody, we do not have the authority to
do that. So we put the onus back on ICE.
If we notify them the individual could be getting released,
either either from court or from our facility, then we
notify them with ample time so that they can arrive
and then you know, take that person to custody.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right. So it sounds to me what I'm hearing you're
saying if I'm wrong here, please, I don't want to
put words in your mouth. Is that ICE at this
point will move as quickly as they can, depending upon
the individual, depending upon their their availability of personnel, with
a little bit more alacrity than you were seeing with
(21:26):
the ICE that was functioning under the Binding administration. That's
I'm just trying to make I'm trying to understand that
to be really honest with you, because if it's changed
a little bit, it's a change. You're following the same
pattern and procedure, and ICE is being a little more
responsive under this administration or under this administration of ICE. Correct, fair, okay, am,
(21:49):
i We're on the same page. I just want to
make sure we're on the same page. I don't want
to put words in anyone's mouth misleads you. I want
to understand it better because, frankly, it's one of the
advantages of doing a show like this is I can
talk to and my listeners can hear from folks who
are in positions of authority, like both you, Sheriff McDermot
and Sheriff Bowler. Which Bowler, which is really important for
(22:10):
us to hear. Let's get to some phone calls if
if you gentlemen are ready, I'm gonna go to Jason,
Jason and Walt Walthy. Jason, you were first tonight with
the two Massachusetts sheriffs, Patrick McDermott of Norfolk County and
Thomas Bohler of Berkshire County.
Speaker 6 (22:25):
Go right ahead, Jason, Yes, thank you for taking out call,
and thank you John Man for being on the show tonight.
I got a question. I'm futuntly. Unfortunately, I have a
history of being a guest in your houses, not particularly well.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well put, Jason, Jason, well put nicely put go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Now.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
No, not specifically Norfolk or Baksha, but in Atlanta. Full
Thin County, copp County in bear Rica. But I know
it's a difference. In Joja, we don't have no tablets.
But when I came to bear Rica, when I was
a guest in bear Rica a few times for free,
they got tablets. I'm like, what's the state wasting money
(23:07):
on the tablets? All these inmates walking around listening to music.
So when I was against in Capp County, I was
able to complete a semester at a graduate degree. I
was able to contact my professors, the Senema, teast books,
the Sendema my curriculum, and I was able to complete
a semester. So I spent most of my time fixing
my credit writing creditors. So I was just very focused.
(23:28):
I didn't I didn't want to become a part of that.
I was in there because I made a bad decision.
But anyway, come to bear Ricords, they got tablets. Even
Souftfolk got tablets. I don't know if you guys got
tablets in Norfolk and Baksher, But I'm like, instead of
spending money those kinds of things, why not start up
programs to help these inmates. Granted there's a lot of
programs drug rehabs, a meetings. But most of these inmates
(23:51):
they come out, they don't got no financial litistry, they
ain't got no education. They could get a ged years granted,
but when they come out, they're gonna make me my wage?
How do they gonna support their lives? So don't they
don't end up in the same lifestyle that got me
in that place to begin with. Right, So I offered
to go in there and teach these people because I
made by decisions. But now I run my own self
(24:12):
a multi million dollar real estate company, and I've been
not guessing you guys h households or hotels for freeing
multiple occasions, I'll say more than fifteen times. But I
changed my life around.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Right Jason, Jason, congratulations, congratulations for what you have done.
Let me get one of both of the sheriffs to
respond to your suggestions, which to me are pretty solid.
And I'm so happy you listen to Night Side. Uh
You're You're a credit to my audience. Thank you for
(24:46):
for succeeding.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I want to I just want to one more, one
more thing, five seconds, five seconds. I volunteer to go
to bear Rica to offer my services how to teach
them financial real esty, how to put their life together,
to connect their dats, to change and mindset. You know what,
it told me, you have a criminal rate. I don't
got no failing these, but it told me you're not
welcome coming in here and offer your services. So how
(25:08):
can I somebody who been in their shoes come and
help because creditbility is not dead. Most of the people
that go before this inmates, they don't have no credit buility,
never been in jail. They don't know how it's like
to be an inmate. Them stuff. I've been in the shoes,
so I have the credibility to tell them what it's
like to become an eMate, to become my self employed
and employee and put your life together.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
That's my question, Jason, Jason hold On, I want to
hear from the sheriffs, and I'm going to make a
suggestion if you don't mind, go ahead. Whoever wants to
take this first, Sheriff Bowl or Sheriff mcjermalth.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Sure again, this is Sheriff Bowler Jason. First of all,
congratulations and turning your life around. You know, we do
use tablets for a variety of things. We also use
tablets are using our educational programs that we have at
our facility. But you talk about the financial literacy, and
I also agree with you that some of the best
mentors are those who've experienerience these uh these challenges like
(26:02):
yourself in the past, and we utilize those mentors in
our Second Street Second Chance program, that's our re entry program,
and those of those we utilize those individuals to help
guide and instruct those who have gone through this in
the past to help others so that they can find
that straight and that straight and positive pathway to success.
(26:24):
But inside, you know, inside our facility, we use the
tablets for all sorts of educational programs. We have financial
literacy individuals that come in and explain things to our
to our individuals, our justice uh uh involved individuals. So
there's a lot of programs and things we do to
create the resources, to give the resources inside our facility.
(26:48):
But then we enhance that even more out when they
when they're released through our re entry programs and we
guide these and navigate these individuals through all the challenges
that they'll face. Educational we set up with educational programs
like yourself where you went back to school. We do housing,
we do employment, we do financial literacy programs, educational programs
(27:10):
with our Berkshire Community College that's up here in Pittsfield.
So we do have those programs available. It's unfortunate that
maybe on the state side that they don't. But that's
the beauty of being the House of Corrections, so and
being community oriented and involved in our community that we
have those resources, we're able to provide those resources to
(27:31):
our individuals.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Jeff mc dumott.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, you know, we Masters of Sheriff's across the board
are leading the corrections industry nationally in terms of programming
and how we address corrections in the twenty first century.
And it really starts with a very simple phrase of
re entry begins on day one. You know, when people
come into our facilities in the House of Correction, we're
immediately getting involved with who they are, what they're where
(28:00):
they are, what keeped them into the prison system in
the first place. And a lot of times it's based
upon education and Jason, congratulations, we make sure that people
get an education while they're incarcerated at the very basics
their ged I know, in Norfork County we had partnerships
with Boston College, Massassonia Community College, Mite. You can get
(28:21):
educational credits in MIT at the Norfolk County House of Correction.
Those tablets provide enormous opportunity for us to share resources
with those people that are incarcerated so that they can
be a step above when they get ready to go
out into the community. And shaff Bohler and I both
as well as many of the shriff's around the commonwealth,
(28:41):
we believe that there needs to be a continuum of care,
not just that starts in day one of incarceration, but
continues post incarceration. That's why Seriff Fola has his program,
the Second Street Program, and in North Fork County we
call it the Hope Center. And when people come out
of they're introduced with rehiny specialists within seventy two hours,
(29:02):
and they're immediately hooked up with people on the outside
that can help them reintegrate into the community, because that's
what it comes down to, a better chance for them,
but also a great chance for the community to be
a safer place for them as well as the community members.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Sheriff McDermand, I don't want to put you on the
spot here, but would do you think it would be
at all helpful if Jason wanted to leave his number
with my producer that maybe someone from the Sheriff's Association
could call him and see if he could perhaps, I
don't know, do some work within the system which would
help some other inmates, or is that something that would
(29:39):
be beyond where you would be able to go.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
That would be fantastic because, as Sheriff Foller said, and
I agree with them, because I have at least two,
maybe three instructors in the Norfolk Sheriff's Office who are
formally incarcerated individuals. I agree with Jason. They can talk
with the people on the inside. They will as much
as I want them to listen to me. They'd much
rather hear from Jason and his success stories because that.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Would be good. He let's do this, Jason, would you
be willing to leave your phone number and someone from
Sheriff McDermott's office, he is the president of the Sheriff's Association,
try to work something out with you where maybe you
could help people again. Whatever deal you work out, that's
between you and them. So you want to leave your
phone number with my producer and he will give it
(30:26):
to Sheriff McDermott and hopefully someone will get in touch
with you before the week is out. Is that? Okay? Yes?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (30:32):
And one more last thing right the programs. That's great,
but the thing is though, right, just like being in jail,
you may have a case work up, but he got
out of out of inmates, right, you may see him
once a month, the same thing that happens when this
inmates ruler.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Jason. Let me do this because I'm Jason, I'm way
past my time, and I got a bunch of other
commercials and calls I got to get to. I would
really appreciate it. Leave your phone number with Rob, my producer.
He will pass that number on to Sheriff McDermott and
I'm sure Share mcdermmer will follow through and they'll have
someone get leave a daytime phone number so they can
(31:04):
reach it during the day, and let's see what they
work out. No promise is made in advance, but you
never know. It might lead to something that's beneficial to you,
to inmates and to the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
Okay, I thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Hang on, give Rob that number. Gentlemen. I'm we passed
my break here, so I got to take a quick
commercial break. Try to get a couple more phone calls in.
I thought that was an interesting phone call, and I
think it's just one of those opportunities that you got
to feel your way through. Sheriff mcderbith, thanks for being
open to the suggestion. I appreciate it very much. We'll
take a quick quick break and we will get you
(31:38):
that phone number from Rob when we finished at ten
o'clock back on night side right after this.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on waz Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
All right, we're tight on time. I'm going to go
to Caitlin Is in Quincy. Caitlin, you're next on Nightside.
I know you've waited a long time.
Speaker 7 (31:57):
Go right ahead, Hi, I'm looking to talk with the
sheriffs about the affordable camps that they have for kids
across the state. I'm looking to see who's eligible. I'm wondering,
what's it like. Is it like dare from when I
was a kid? Insight on programming? How to sign up?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Okay, Shreff Bullet, you want to take this one for us?
Speaker 4 (32:18):
The which camps are those for the for youth camps?
Speaker 7 (32:23):
Yeah, the youth camps, the sheriff's camps across the state.
I've heard of some neighbors kids going. I just like
similar information. I'll what to expect and how to get
my kids involved.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So maybe Dan, because Caitlin's from Quinsy, we'll go to
the home ahead We've got, you know, in Norfolk County,
we've got our Youth Leadership Academy that is a popular
summer youth leadership camp that is for kids from ages
(32:54):
ten to fourteen. That's going to be that's currently being
offered from June sixteenth through August fifteenth, and that's right
our Branch Republic Safety Complex. Great opportunity for kids to
get together to challenge themselves on leadership skills as well
as good team building and creative goal setting and allows
(33:15):
people to even take to take a little risk on
going up on our ropes course. We've had twenty thousand
kids go through that camp who have consistently come out
loving every minute of it, making vifelong friends. And that's
in brain Tree. Norfolk County also has a Medway Youth
Leadership Academy, So anybody interested can go to our website
Norfolk Sheriff dot Com go to our Youth Leadership Camp
(33:37):
page get all the information you can register your kids,
and it's very affordable and we're happy, but we also
don't want any kid left out, and we try to
make spots available, so we don't want finances to hold
you back either.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
All right, sounds great, DABLET hope that helps.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Thanks, dam You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
All right, I'm going to try. We only have a
little bit more than a minute and a half left
if I'm reading it correctly, Mike and Newton, can you
do something with this in a real brief period of time.
You've only been on a few minutes, so I'm not
I'm not guilty asking you to be quick, go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
No, wait'll be really quick.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Well up in their facility?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Are they going to uh be treated?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
We're not going to the read case. Simple, simple as that. Mike.
It's it's out of bounds. I'll rule it irrelevant. I'm
sorry about that, gentlemen. Thank you very much for you.
I run a tight ship, guys. I want you to
know that.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Okay, Mike, we definitely know that. Dad.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Uh First of all, Sheriff McDermott, I do hope that
you get an opportunity to have someone on your staff
get in touch with Jason. He sounded to me the
real deal, and it sounds like he's just dying to
give back. So thank you for your time tonight. Thank
you for dealing with some tough questions. Sure if Buller
(35:01):
never had a chance to deal with you before, but
you have impressed me. Both of you have impressed me.
I thank you both for your time tonight, and uh
and I thank you again on behalf of all my
listeners for what you do every day, every day. Thank
you both so much.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Thanks for having us Dan.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I appreciate it, great pleasure.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Welcome, gentlemen, we'll talk again. Okay, thanks very much. All Right,
we are done for now. When we get back, we're
going to talk about Donald Trump. He met today with
the Prime Minister of Canada, the new guy, Mark Carney.
It was interesting and we are going to have some
fun with this. I actually think, uh, and you may
agree or disagree with me, but I actually think that
(35:42):
Donald Trump is having a ball trolling people over Alcatraz
and Canada. And then he may be a little more
sophisticated on Canada than we're giving him credit for. We
will see. So what we'll do is we'll take a
quick break here. Well, thank you again, Our guest Norfolk
County Sheriff Patrick McDermott and Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Bohler,
(36:06):
and the callers Mike and Newton. I just hope you
understand the read cases not something either of them are
dealing with directly, and I just did not want to
put anybody on the spot unnecessarily. I appreciate your effort,
but I had to issue that ruling irrelevant in the
court of public opinion, at least in terms of tonight's
(36:28):
subject at hand. We'll take a break. Here comes the
ten o'clock news. The Red Sox are losing six' to
one to those Pesky Texas. Rangers coming back On night's.
Side
It's Nightside with Dan Ray ONU BZY, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody, as we are head into
our nine o'clock hour, and tonight we're going to spend
an hour talking with two sheriffs here in Massachusetts. We
have only fourteen sheriffs in Massachusetts, and we have two
of them with us tonight. Delighted to welcome Norfolk County
(00:28):
Sheriff Patrick McDermott, Sheriff McDermott, welcome back to Nightside. How
are you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm doing great, Dan, Thanks for having me on tonight,
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're very welcome in joining us from the other side
of Massachusetts, from the western side, from Berkshire County Sheriff
Thomas Bowler, Sheriff Bowler, welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Thanks Dan. Great, great to be on and thank you
for having us.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Have I got that name? McDermott's an easy one for
you know?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
For me?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Is it bowler? A bowler? Want to make sure that
I did it correctly?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
It right with Bowler?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Bowler? All right, all right, now you've been a sheriff
out there for about fourteen fifteen years, as I understand it, right.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, it's twenty eleven.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So you come from a law enforcement background. You worked
as a police detective.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yep. I started my career as a police officer in
nineteen eighty five, and I was signed to detective Brull
in the latter part of eighty eight and eighty nine,
and then ran for sheriff at the PD for twenty
five years and ran for sheriff in twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
All right, and Sheriff McDermott, you had a little bit
of a political pedigree, I would say from what the
research I've done, so both of you have come to
a very important office, but sort of by a different path,
correct Sheriff McDermott.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah, So I started right after law school. I was
a prosecutor at the Suffer County District Attorney's Office at
the Boston Municipal Court, and then became a city councilor
in Quincy and then ran to Norfolk County Register of
Probate and served for eighteen years running the probate and
family court before the opportunity presented itself to run for
sheriff in Norfolk County and I've served there now for
(02:14):
in my fifth year as sheriff and going along with.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Stride, and you're also the president of the Sheriff's Association
here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Correct, correct, Yeah, we get elected, we kind of share
the position over a couple of years. It's forth to
only fourteen of us, so it goes back and forth
for a time. But the president serves two years as
the leader of our fourteen sheriff's offices, advocating for the
office of sheriff, whether it's at the legislature or out
in the community or with our friends like yourself and
(02:44):
the press.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Okay, so let's let's talk again. You're in a county
that is very much more of an urban county, urban
and suburban county. Norfolk County. Sheriff Bowler is in a
county that's I don't think it's fair to call it
rural sheriff, but I certainly it's not a highly urban
(03:10):
Berkshire County. How would you how would you want us
to describe your county?
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Well, I'd say Berkshire County. If you really look at
the state of Massachusetts, there's thirty towns and two cities
in Berkshire County, and going north to south from we
cover from from the Vermont line to the Connecticut line.
It's a good of the state, yes, but it was
only we only have a population about one hundred and
(03:36):
forty three to one hundred and forty five thousand here
in Berkshire.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
County, Okay, and Sheriff McDermott, I'm guessing that your population
is a multiple of that.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So yeah, Norfolk County kind of surrounds, you know where
we're abutted by Worcester County, Middlesex County, and Suffolk County
to the north and east I guess of US or west,
and then to the south of US is Plymouth County
well as Bristol County, so we're kind of locked in
the middle. But Norfolk County is considered kind of a
medium sized county in Massachusetts. We have about seven hundred
(04:08):
and sixty thousand residents in this county, so it's definitely different.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So that's good size county, that's sure. Okay. So first
question is what are the are the commonalities that and
both of you can answer this in any order that
you like. What are the commonalities do you think that
each of your counties are dealing with in terms of
prison population, crime, you know, problems at the top of
(04:35):
the list that each of you are dealing with again,
different circumstances geographically, perhaps different circumstances, different situations demographically, but
what are the commonalities? Is it all? Is it always
going to be drugs that's going to be the driving
force for your clientele?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well, I could probably say Dan Sheriff McDermott here that
you know, the there's commonalities across all of our county,
throughout the Commonwealth, and certainly sheriffs have a predominant as
a primary role of care and custody of inmates justice
involved individuals that are serving up to two and a
half years in the House of Correction or awaiting pre trial.
(05:17):
But when it comes to offenders that are in our
respective jurisdiction, one of the challenges of many, but the
biggest one is the fact that we do have on average,
you know, sixty five seventy percent of our individuals and
custody or having a diagnosable substance use or mental health disorder.
I think that's something that is significantly different than it
(05:39):
was about twenty thirty years ago, you know, when crime
was still crime. But I think the population that we're
serving is a little bit more complex than it was
back in the day, but across the board, across the commonwealth,
that's a big challenge for sheriffs as well as members
of the Department of Corrections who are challenged with, you know,
the care and custod of these men and women who
(06:00):
are largely going through a lot of a lot of
significant trauma and problems which caused the criminal behavior in
the first place. It gets them jammed up into the
criminal justice system.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Sure ball of similar situation out there are a little
different in any respect, No, it's.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
About the same. We have. You know, about eighty five
percent of of our justice involved individuals are you know,
have a substitute disorder. Probably about seventy four percent are
dealing with mental health challenges as well. You know, we
deal with the individuals that we deal with. We find
(06:38):
that and keep in mind in not everybody that comes
to our facilities at the direction of the courts are
all bad people. They've just made some bad choices and so,
but we deal with we have people with a lack
of education, the mental health challenges, medical challenge. We have
seen the chronic disease or sickness or is skyrocketed from
(07:02):
even when I started fourteen years ago. People that are
coming to our facilities. Are are you know, more sick
than they were years ago. So that presents a big,
big challenge economically or financially for our office, in a
strain in our medical medical health departments as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I should also mention, if I'm not mistaken, that this
is a period this week of awareness. Mental health awareness
is this month actually, and also this week we observed
National Correction Officers Week. Next week is National Police Week,
and of course later on this month we deal with
(07:47):
Memorial Day and remembering those who who have served in uniform.
And you know, we we forget sometimes the sacrifices that
people make, both from the military but also from the
law enforcement division. So that's why we're talking today. We
(08:10):
have two sheriffs, the president of the Massachusetts Sheriff Association,
Sheriff Patrick McDermott in Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Bowler. If
you'd like to join and ask questions, you're welcome to
join the conversation six one, seven, two, four ten thirty
six seven nine three one ten thirty entertain calls. Again,
(08:35):
I ask you to just keep it pretty much on topic.
When I get back, I want to talk about a
little bit about the challenges that you have in terms
of the clientele. What percentage of the people who you're
dealing with do you think really are looking to get
their lives straightened out and get back on the straight
(08:57):
and narrow, and what percentage cheff giving up whole? And
how do you deal with and do you do you
recognize that differences those differences amongst your population. We're back
on Nightside. My name is Dan Ray. We're talking about
crime and punishment. Really, crime and incarceration would be the
way to talk about this hour tonight. Feel free to
(09:18):
join us back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
This It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
With me are two sheriffs from Massachusetts, Norfolk County Sheriff
Patrick McDermott and Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Boehler. And we
will get to phone calls, and we have phone calls waiting,
so I want to get to them fairly quickly. But
I'd just like to finish up with a hot topic,
and that is cooperating with the federal government. Federal government
(09:50):
has changed. I know both of you are democratic officials.
How can can either or both of you explain how
this system should work when you have someone in custody
that the federal government wants to to get in contact
with or take custody off. I'm sure you're not putting
(10:11):
up roadblocks, but what did the Feds have to do
and what are they not doing that is that's causing
a lot of the controversies.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Well, you know, this has been something that we've dealt with.
You know, with the change of administration comes with change
of policies or more aggressive policies, as we've seen in
Massachusetts in terms of the ramp up towards ICE and
you know, we're working towards you know, you know, illegal immigration.
So the Massachusetts Sheriffs are kind of on the forefront
of this. You know, we've been having discussions with ICE
(10:41):
and with with with folks in the federal government about
the difference with Massachusetts law. And you know, the Massachusetts
Sheriffs pointed out that the Supreme Judicial Court in twenty
seventeen ruled that it is unlawful for the state and
local law enforcement agencies in Massachusetts to detain anybody solely
(11:02):
on the basis of the US immigrations and a Customs
enforcement detainer beyond the time that that individual would otherwise
be entitled to be released from our custody. So if
an individual is coming up on release, we do have
ongoing discussions with ICE. When an ICE attention comes in,
we do notify that the ICE representatives they come in.
(11:26):
They will often interview the people that are in our custody,
but it's the ICE obligation to make sure that they're
in the facility. When those individuals are preparing to be released,
we're not allowed to hold on to them any longer
than they ought to be. So it really is somewhat
in the past that's been a big disconnect with ICE.
(11:46):
We've had documentation in the Norfolk Sheriff's Office where ICE
has been contacted and specifically we have been told we're
not coming to get the individual. So the head that
are disconnect in the past think that because of the
more ramped up, you know, efforts by ICE, there's a
lot more activity going on within our local jail system
(12:09):
and the Massachusetts sheriffs will uphold the law. That is
our obligation, and we will make sure we're upholding Massachusetts law,
and we are happy to cooperate and work with ICE,
but we will not violate the oaths of office we
took to uphold the Massachusetts laws.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Now, sheriffmcdermott, I believe I recognize your voice. You recently
went to Washington, as I understand, and actually met with
the new Attorney General, Pam Bondi, and the new head
of the FBI, Cash Ptel. Correct.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Correct, And you know I said, you know, with all
the politics that surrounds yeah, you know, the Trump administration
and Massachusetts being kind of a targeted state, and there
are targeted states relative to those that don't necessarily see
IDI with the new administration, my attitude and as sheriffs,
and I think sure if Fola would share this with me,
(12:59):
And you know, we're both members of national organizations of
sheriffs from across the county the country. You know, when
you take the oath of office as a sheriff and
you put a badge on your chest, politics really kind
of goes by a little bit of a wayside. We
actually just look towards public safety issues. So my obligation,
you know, as a president of the Massachusetts Sheriff as
(13:19):
just the sheriff, you know, I need to be in
the arena if I'm going to do battle. But I
needed to see to I with Attorney General BONDI with
the FBI Director Cash Bettel. I've met with Secretary of
Education Lynda McMahon on some of the problems with grants.
So we need to be as as Teddy Roosevelt talked
about the man in the arena, if you're going to
(13:39):
at least have of debates and articulate and argument, you've
got to be where you know the debate is, and
that's going to be in Washington, d C. And I
intend to spend a lot of time down there just
kind of educating Washington bureaucrats about what we're doing in Massachusetts,
on all the great things we're doing, but also letting
(14:01):
them know that we're just not going to be necessarily
bullied by statements by federal officials about how we should
handle things in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
How do you balance that off with US versus Arizona
the twenty eleven decision, which basically said that federal immigration
law preempts the immigration law nationally. That was the case
where the governor of Arizona, Republican governor Governor Brewer, decided
she wanted to have stricter immigration enforcement than was being
(14:34):
utilized by the Obama administration back in twenty ten, and
Supreme Court basically ruled, hey, the FED set immigration law,
their word was preempted. Now, I don't know how you
reconcile that decision with the Lun decision. Is it kind
of puts I think Massachusetts sheriffs in a difficult, awkward position.
(14:55):
Or am I misreading one or both of those cases.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
The Arizona case was twenty twelve. I believe with the
Supreme Court ruling says states cannot enforce federal law, we
we won't be enforcing federal law. Lun just simply your
firms that we can't do ICE enforcement outside of what
and then we get into the weeds with a formal
contract with ICE, which is under this much know as
(15:21):
the two eighty seven gen contract. And there is always,
as you know, Dan, and you know, as both of
us are lawyers, you know, there's there's consistently conflicts of
law that come up, and there's usually those particular matters
that that settle things a little bit differently in states.
By states, you'll oftentimes have different outlooks as to how
laws can be enforced. And you know, we've never had
(15:44):
Arizona come down in the twenty twelve case, and it
was discussed in the twenty seventeen case in Lun. But
that's the case as far as we're concerned in Massachusetts
that we are obligated to follow.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So you you follow Lun is what I'm hearing you say. Correct, correct,
But you know as well as I do that in
recent memory, going back to fifty seven in Arkansas with
Governor Farbas and President Eisenhower, those cases involved desegregation cases
where Arkansas and eventually Alabama two were forced rightfully so
(16:21):
to integrate their school systems. They said that they had
state laws in their states which we were in conflict
with the federal law, and the federal law tends to prevail.
It's going to be interesting to see how how this
all works out. You guys are in a tough spot,
no question about it, and they don't envy your position.
But both of you, I think understand the circumstances and
(16:47):
the concern that people have with people who are here illegally,
who have committed some pretty serious crimes. I got to
take a break, Sheriff Buller. We're going to get your
take on that as well.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
We'll get to phone calls along the way as well.
We'll got a quick news break here at the bottom
of the hour. We the only line open right now.
We get two lines at six, one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty. I'm going to ask everyone when you do call,
please be polite. Ask whatever questions you want, but again,
don't need to make speeches, just just simple direct questions
(17:22):
and they will give you direct These these two gentlemen,
I think are very capable of giving direct answers as
you've just seen. We'll be back on Night's Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w B Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Welcome back everyone. We're talking with the two Massachusetts sheriff's
tonight in Norfolk County, Patrick McDermott, Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas
Bohler Shreff Bowler.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
You didn't get a chance to comment on how you
deal with immigration issues, and certainly in the context of
yous versus Arizona and the lung lung decision, which seemed
to me to be have some inherent contradictions between the
two of them.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Do you want to comment on what the status is
out in Berkshire County?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Sure, I go along with what Sheriff McDermott has stated earlier,
we have always worked with ICE in the past. We've
had incidents as well where we've notified ICE on certain
individuals that they've had detainers on and we basically put
the onus back onto ICE whether they want to pick
(18:27):
these individuals pick them up or not. We have had
in the past where they never showed up. Recently, obviously
with this new administration, they seem to be following up
on a lot of the individuals that we call them on.
And of course we don't have a lot up here
in Berkshire County, but we've had a couple here and there.
But basically what Patrick mcdervis, we follow the law and
(18:47):
we work with our law enforcement partners in this, and
I think it's very important that we continue to have
a good positive dialogue and relationship with them when it
comes to the public safety issues with this. You know,
we will not hold anybody on just a detainer. The
only way we would hold somebody if there is a
(19:08):
judicial warrant UH or a judicial warrant from signed by
a federal judge that would allow us to keep somebody
beyond their detainer. But as far as the detainers go,
we notify ICE as we always do, and put the
onus back on them whether they show up for the
release or not.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So what I'm hearing you saying, if I'm incorrect, please
correct me that during the the Biden years, if you will,
the attitude of ICE seems to be a little bit different.
You know, we have a deputy director, Tom Lyons from
(19:47):
todd Lyons excuse me, Tom Lyons the Sun from from
the Boston area, and they're a little bit more aggressive.
It sounds to me like they're moving more quickly. When
you notify that you have someone in your custody for
whom they have a detainer, you're not going to hold
them for three weeks or two weeks or a week
for that matter. But it sounds to me like the
(20:08):
Trump administration's ICE are a little more aggressive in terms
of moving quickly then the the Biden administration was. Is
what I'm hearing you say. If I'm missing that, please
correct me.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Well, it's not so much. The Biden administration was also
even prior to the Biden administration, So it just seems
with this new administration that that things have obviously ramped
up a little bit. But we still we still follow
you know, we follow our law here. If it's a detainer,
(20:41):
which is just a simple request from an ICE agent
to hold somebody, we do not have the authority to
do that. So we put the onus back on ICE.
If we notify them the individual could be getting released,
either either from court or from our facility, then we
notify them with ample time so that they can arrive
and then you know, take that person to custody.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right. So it sounds to me what I'm hearing you're
saying if I'm wrong here, please, I don't want to
put words in your mouth. Is that ICE at this
point will move as quickly as they can, depending upon
the individual, depending upon their their availability of personnel, with
a little bit more alacrity than you were seeing with
(21:26):
the ICE that was functioning under the Binding administration. That's
I'm just trying to make I'm trying to understand that
to be really honest with you, because if it's changed
a little bit, it's a change. You're following the same
pattern and procedure, and ICE is being a little more
responsive under this administration or under this administration of ICE. Correct, fair, okay, am,
(21:49):
i We're on the same page. I just want to
make sure we're on the same page. I don't want
to put words in anyone's mouth misleads you. I want
to understand it better because, frankly, it's one of the
advantages of doing a show like this is I can
talk to and my listeners can hear from folks who
are in positions of authority, like both you, Sheriff McDermot
and Sheriff Bowler. Which Bowler, which is really important for
(22:10):
us to hear. Let's get to some phone calls if
if you gentlemen are ready, I'm gonna go to Jason,
Jason and Walt Walthy. Jason, you were first tonight with
the two Massachusetts sheriffs, Patrick McDermott of Norfolk County and
Thomas Bohler of Berkshire County.
Speaker 6 (22:25):
Go right ahead, Jason, Yes, thank you for taking out call,
and thank you John Man for being on the show tonight.
I got a question. I'm futuntly. Unfortunately, I have a
history of being a guest in your houses, not particularly well.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well put, Jason, Jason, well put nicely put go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Now.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
No, not specifically Norfolk or Baksha, but in Atlanta. Full
Thin County, copp County in bear Rica. But I know
it's a difference. In Joja, we don't have no tablets.
But when I came to bear Rica, when I was
a guest in bear Rica a few times for free,
they got tablets. I'm like, what's the state wasting money
(23:07):
on the tablets? All these inmates walking around listening to music.
So when I was against in Capp County, I was
able to complete a semester at a graduate degree. I
was able to contact my professors, the Senema, teast books,
the Sendema my curriculum, and I was able to complete
a semester. So I spent most of my time fixing
my credit writing creditors. So I was just very focused.
(23:28):
I didn't I didn't want to become a part of that.
I was in there because I made a bad decision.
But anyway, come to bear Ricords, they got tablets. Even
Souftfolk got tablets. I don't know if you guys got
tablets in Norfolk and Baksher, But I'm like, instead of
spending money those kinds of things, why not start up
programs to help these inmates. Granted there's a lot of
programs drug rehabs, a meetings. But most of these inmates
(23:51):
they come out, they don't got no financial litistry, they
ain't got no education. They could get a ged years granted,
but when they come out, they're gonna make me my wage?
How do they gonna support their lives? So don't they
don't end up in the same lifestyle that got me
in that place to begin with. Right, So I offered
to go in there and teach these people because I
made by decisions. But now I run my own self
(24:12):
a multi million dollar real estate company, and I've been
not guessing you guys h households or hotels for freeing
multiple occasions, I'll say more than fifteen times. But I
changed my life around.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Right Jason, Jason, congratulations, congratulations for what you have done.
Let me get one of both of the sheriffs to
respond to your suggestions, which to me are pretty solid.
And I'm so happy you listen to Night Side. Uh
You're You're a credit to my audience. Thank you for
(24:46):
for succeeding.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I want to I just want to one more, one
more thing, five seconds, five seconds. I volunteer to go
to bear Rica to offer my services how to teach
them financial real esty, how to put their life together,
to connect their dats, to change and mindset. You know what,
it told me, you have a criminal rate. I don't
got no failing these, but it told me you're not
welcome coming in here and offer your services. So how
(25:08):
can I somebody who been in their shoes come and
help because creditbility is not dead. Most of the people
that go before this inmates, they don't have no credit buility,
never been in jail. They don't know how it's like
to be an inmate. Them stuff. I've been in the shoes,
so I have the credibility to tell them what it's
like to become an eMate, to become my self employed
and employee and put your life together.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
That's my question, Jason, Jason hold On, I want to
hear from the sheriffs, and I'm going to make a
suggestion if you don't mind, go ahead. Whoever wants to
take this first, Sheriff Bowl or Sheriff mcjermalth.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Sure again, this is Sheriff Bowler Jason. First of all,
congratulations and turning your life around. You know, we do
use tablets for a variety of things. We also use
tablets are using our educational programs that we have at
our facility. But you talk about the financial literacy, and
I also agree with you that some of the best
mentors are those who've experienerience these uh these challenges like
(26:02):
yourself in the past, and we utilize those mentors in
our Second Street Second Chance program, that's our re entry program,
and those of those we utilize those individuals to help
guide and instruct those who have gone through this in
the past to help others so that they can find
that straight and that straight and positive pathway to success.
(26:24):
But inside, you know, inside our facility, we use the
tablets for all sorts of educational programs. We have financial
literacy individuals that come in and explain things to our
to our individuals, our justice uh uh involved individuals. So
there's a lot of programs and things we do to
create the resources, to give the resources inside our facility.
(26:48):
But then we enhance that even more out when they
when they're released through our re entry programs and we
guide these and navigate these individuals through all the challenges
that they'll face. Educational we set up with educational programs
like yourself where you went back to school. We do housing,
we do employment, we do financial literacy programs, educational programs
(27:10):
with our Berkshire Community College that's up here in Pittsfield.
So we do have those programs available. It's unfortunate that
maybe on the state side that they don't. But that's
the beauty of being the House of Corrections, so and
being community oriented and involved in our community that we
have those resources, we're able to provide those resources to
(27:31):
our individuals.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Jeff mc dumott.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, you know, we Masters of Sheriff's across the board
are leading the corrections industry nationally in terms of programming
and how we address corrections in the twenty first century.
And it really starts with a very simple phrase of
re entry begins on day one. You know, when people
come into our facilities in the House of Correction, we're
immediately getting involved with who they are, what they're where
(28:00):
they are, what keeped them into the prison system in
the first place. And a lot of times it's based
upon education and Jason, congratulations, we make sure that people
get an education while they're incarcerated at the very basics
their ged I know, in Norfork County we had partnerships
with Boston College, Massassonia Community College, Mite. You can get
(28:21):
educational credits in MIT at the Norfolk County House of Correction.
Those tablets provide enormous opportunity for us to share resources
with those people that are incarcerated so that they can
be a step above when they get ready to go
out into the community. And shaff Bohler and I both
as well as many of the shriff's around the commonwealth,
(28:41):
we believe that there needs to be a continuum of care,
not just that starts in day one of incarceration, but
continues post incarceration. That's why Seriff Fola has his program,
the Second Street Program, and in North Fork County we
call it the Hope Center. And when people come out
of they're introduced with rehiny specialists within seventy two hours,
(29:02):
and they're immediately hooked up with people on the outside
that can help them reintegrate into the community, because that's
what it comes down to, a better chance for them,
but also a great chance for the community to be
a safer place for them as well as the community members.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Sheriff McDermand, I don't want to put you on the
spot here, but would do you think it would be
at all helpful if Jason wanted to leave his number
with my producer that maybe someone from the Sheriff's Association
could call him and see if he could perhaps, I
don't know, do some work within the system which would
help some other inmates, or is that something that would
(29:39):
be beyond where you would be able to go.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
That would be fantastic because, as Sheriff Foller said, and
I agree with them, because I have at least two,
maybe three instructors in the Norfolk Sheriff's Office who are
formally incarcerated individuals. I agree with Jason. They can talk
with the people on the inside. They will as much
as I want them to listen to me. They'd much
rather hear from Jason and his success stories because that.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Would be good. He let's do this, Jason, would you
be willing to leave your phone number and someone from
Sheriff McDermott's office, he is the president of the Sheriff's Association,
try to work something out with you where maybe you
could help people again. Whatever deal you work out, that's
between you and them. So you want to leave your
phone number with my producer and he will give it
(30:26):
to Sheriff McDermott and hopefully someone will get in touch
with you before the week is out. Is that? Okay? Yes?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (30:32):
And one more last thing right the programs. That's great,
but the thing is though, right, just like being in jail,
you may have a case work up, but he got
out of out of inmates, right, you may see him
once a month, the same thing that happens when this
inmates ruler.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Jason. Let me do this because I'm Jason, I'm way
past my time, and I got a bunch of other
commercials and calls I got to get to. I would
really appreciate it. Leave your phone number with Rob, my producer.
He will pass that number on to Sheriff McDermott and
I'm sure Share mcdermmer will follow through and they'll have
someone get leave a daytime phone number so they can
(31:04):
reach it during the day, and let's see what they
work out. No promise is made in advance, but you
never know. It might lead to something that's beneficial to you,
to inmates and to the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
Okay, I thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Hang on, give Rob that number. Gentlemen. I'm we passed
my break here, so I got to take a quick
commercial break. Try to get a couple more phone calls in.
I thought that was an interesting phone call, and I
think it's just one of those opportunities that you got
to feel your way through. Sheriff mcderbith, thanks for being
open to the suggestion. I appreciate it very much. We'll
take a quick quick break and we will get you
(31:38):
that phone number from Rob when we finished at ten
o'clock back on night side right after this.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on waz Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
All right, we're tight on time. I'm going to go
to Caitlin Is in Quincy. Caitlin, you're next on Nightside.
I know you've waited a long time.
Speaker 7 (31:57):
Go right ahead, Hi, I'm looking to talk with the
sheriffs about the affordable camps that they have for kids
across the state. I'm looking to see who's eligible. I'm wondering,
what's it like. Is it like dare from when I
was a kid? Insight on programming? How to sign up?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Okay, Shreff Bullet, you want to take this one for us?
Speaker 4 (32:18):
The which camps are those for the for youth camps?
Speaker 7 (32:23):
Yeah, the youth camps, the sheriff's camps across the state.
I've heard of some neighbors kids going. I just like
similar information. I'll what to expect and how to get
my kids involved.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So maybe Dan, because Caitlin's from Quinsy, we'll go to
the home ahead We've got, you know, in Norfolk County,
we've got our Youth Leadership Academy that is a popular
summer youth leadership camp that is for kids from ages
(32:54):
ten to fourteen. That's going to be that's currently being
offered from June sixteenth through August fifteenth, and that's right
our Branch Republic Safety Complex. Great opportunity for kids to
get together to challenge themselves on leadership skills as well
as good team building and creative goal setting and allows
(33:15):
people to even take to take a little risk on
going up on our ropes course. We've had twenty thousand
kids go through that camp who have consistently come out
loving every minute of it, making vifelong friends. And that's
in brain Tree. Norfolk County also has a Medway Youth
Leadership Academy, So anybody interested can go to our website
Norfolk Sheriff dot Com go to our Youth Leadership Camp
(33:37):
page get all the information you can register your kids,
and it's very affordable and we're happy, but we also
don't want any kid left out, and we try to
make spots available, so we don't want finances to hold
you back either.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
All right, sounds great, DABLET hope that helps.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Thanks, dam You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
All right, I'm going to try. We only have a
little bit more than a minute and a half left
if I'm reading it correctly, Mike and Newton, can you
do something with this in a real brief period of time.
You've only been on a few minutes, so I'm not
I'm not guilty asking you to be quick, go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
No, wait'll be really quick.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Well up in their facility?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Are they going to uh be treated?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
We're not going to the read case. Simple, simple as that. Mike.
It's it's out of bounds. I'll rule it irrelevant. I'm
sorry about that, gentlemen. Thank you very much for you.
I run a tight ship, guys. I want you to
know that.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Okay, Mike, we definitely know that. Dad.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Uh First of all, Sheriff McDermott, I do hope that
you get an opportunity to have someone on your staff
get in touch with Jason. He sounded to me the
real deal, and it sounds like he's just dying to
give back. So thank you for your time tonight. Thank
you for dealing with some tough questions. Sure if Buller
(35:01):
never had a chance to deal with you before, but
you have impressed me. Both of you have impressed me.
I thank you both for your time tonight, and uh
and I thank you again on behalf of all my
listeners for what you do every day, every day. Thank
you both so much.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Thanks for having us Dan.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I appreciate it, great pleasure.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Welcome, gentlemen, we'll talk again. Okay, thanks very much. All Right,
we are done for now. When we get back, we're
going to talk about Donald Trump. He met today with
the Prime Minister of Canada, the new guy, Mark Carney.
It was interesting and we are going to have some
fun with this. I actually think, uh, and you may
agree or disagree with me, but I actually think that
(35:42):
Donald Trump is having a ball trolling people over Alcatraz
and Canada. And then he may be a little more
sophisticated on Canada than we're giving him credit for. We
will see. So what we'll do is we'll take a
quick break here. Well, thank you again, Our guest Norfolk
County Sheriff Patrick McDermott and Berkshire County Sheriff Thomas Bohler,
(36:06):
and the callers Mike and Newton. I just hope you
understand the read cases not something either of them are
dealing with directly, and I just did not want to
put anybody on the spot unnecessarily. I appreciate your effort,
but I had to issue that ruling irrelevant in the
court of public opinion, at least in terms of tonight's
(36:28):
subject at hand. We'll take a break. Here comes the
ten o'clock news. The Red Sox are losing six' to
one to those Pesky Texas. Rangers coming back On night's.
Side
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