September 26, 2024 • 40 mins
Attorney Alan Dershowitz has the reputation of being perhaps the greatest and most famous American lawyer known for taking on high-profile cases and clients. Dershowitz has represented Mike Tyson, Julian Assange, and Donald Trump to name a few. 21-year-old Solomon Schmidt has written the only biography on Alan Dershowitz and in the process interviewed the likes of OJ Simpson, Sen. Ted Cruz, RFK Jr., Mike Tyson, Donald Trump, and of course Alan himself. Schmidt joined us on NightSide to discuss the remarkable feat he achieved in writing Legal Gladiator: The Life of Alan Dershowitz.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm tell you all right.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back everyone. Thanks very much, Dan Watkins. I am
delighted to introduce you to a gentleman. I'm not going
to tell you how Oldie is right now. You may
know because I mentioned it a couple of times early
in the show, but if you don't. He's a published author.
His name is Solomon Schmidt. He's written, I think a
(00:29):
really good book on the life of Alan Dershowitz. He
titles it Legal Gladiator. If you're someone who's a lawyer
or aspiring to be a lawyer, or just interested in
the practice of law, I think this is a great book.
It really traces Alan Dershwitz, the roots of his family
(00:50):
and joining us. Now Solomon Schmid, Solomon, welcome to Nightside.
This is a great book.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
So thanks so much, Dan, I appreciate your kind words.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, it is. When I say it's a it's a biography,
it's a I refer to it as an authorized, unauthorized
biography because you received tremendous You had tremendous access not
only to Alan Dershowitz, but to a lot of the
(01:20):
high profile people that have intersected with his career. How
did you, Let's start at the beginning, how did you
successfully reach out to Alan Dershowitz, who is not necessarily
he's a pretty busy guy. How many hours?
Speaker 4 (01:37):
First?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, first, how'd you reach out? Then? Then we'll build
from there. How did you? First of all, what prompted
you do this to do a book on Alan Dershowitz.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, to make a long story, not overly long, Dan,
It starts actually with a love for New England, the
Patriots specifically, I'll explain. Years ago, my father, Mike, and I,
my family and I are from Buffalo. We were headed
out to a Patriots game in Massachusetts, obviously in Massachusetts,
(02:10):
and while we were on our way to Massachusetts, or
planning our trip to Massachusetts, I decided to look up
the most famous people in the state to try and
reach out to them to see if they would be
willing to do an interview on my history byes YouTube channel.
Number one was Matt Damon and number two was Alan Dershowitz.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Where was Tom Brady? Who was Bill Belichick? Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
They were up there. I don't remember the exact same.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Whatever the list was.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Dershwick was listed as a very famous man in Massachusetts,
so I was vaguely familiar with him at the time
as someone who was knowledgeable in the Constitution. So I
reached out to him to see if he would be
willing to do an interview or the for the kids
who watched my YouTube channel. But the more I looked
into his life, Dan, the more I realized that his
(03:09):
life story would be an amazing biography to do. And
I come to find out that no one had written
a biography of him, which which was shocking to me.
Fast forwarding of it, I later found out from Derschwitz
one time when I was with him. We were we
were together near his home on Martha's Vineyard. We were
(03:30):
driving and I asked him, I said, Alan, there's there's
been a question on my mind for a long time.
Why didn't anyone else write a biography of you? And
he said someone started to here on the vineyard back
in twenty eighteen, but they stopped when I went on
the floor of the Senate to represent President Trump.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So but going back to my he lost a lot
of friends with that, a lot of friends on Mars Davis.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He did, yes, he did. But going back to my
to wrap up the answers.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
We went from you going to a football game and
you're on the venue driving in a car with him.
What was the connection? How did you get to him?
I mean, Alan is not I mean he's a busy,
busy guy. How did you convince him that even to
talk to you?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, so initially, when I reached out to him and
I sent him an email to see if he would
come on my YouTube channel, he went dark on me.
He said he would do it, and then I didn't
hear back from him. That was June of twenty twenty one. Well,
I later found out that Dershwitz had a medical emergency
that month, So I just figured he got busy and
didn't have time to talk to me, and I let
months go by. I finished up the eighth book in
(04:39):
a series I was writing called History Bites, and when
I got done with that, my mind went back to
Dershwitz and I had thoughts.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Of a biography for me in my head, and.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I started to reach out to some folks who had
known him in his career. I started reading what I
could find about his career, and one of the first
people I reached out to sen email to was Harvey solberglate,
who's a civil liberties lawyer in Massachusetts and has founded
an organization called FIRE, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression,
(05:11):
which is becoming a new kind of ACLU. I mean, Harvey,
in his own way, has been a hugely influential figure
in our country recently.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh yeah, and by the way, Harvey's a frequent guest
in this program, and I count of homeworks my close
personal friends, A great a great man. So you used
Harvey to connect to reconnect with Allen.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Well, you know what it turned out, Dan, that I
struck I struck gold contacting Harvey. I didn't realize this
at the time, but Harvey has known Allan for sixty
years and is one of Allen's only friends who is
a Democrat who's stuck with Derschwitz through his representation of Trump,
(05:54):
and agreed with him on it. So when I reached
out to Harvey and with a list of questions of Dershowitz,
Harvey saw my work, my previous work, saw what I
was hoping, what I was planning to do with a
biography on Dershwitz. And when I told Harvey that I
was hoping to get in contact with Dershowitz, he went
(06:14):
to him and said, look, Solomon is a reputable author.
I think you can trust him. And little did I
know that. I mean, I couldn't have found a better
person really to tell that to Dershowitz, And so Dershowitz
agreed to speak with me. I met him in New
York City in March of or April of twenty twenty two,
(06:39):
and the first question he asked me right out of
the gate, Dan was why should I let an eighteen
year old write my authorized biography? And I laid out
my plan for the biography. I told Professor Dershwitz what
I had in mind and what I was hoping to
cover in his biography, who I was hoping to interview,
(06:59):
and he liked the plan and we left.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
We parted with that parted at that.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Meeting, and he said, let's work on this together, meaning
I'll be interviewed, I'll give you access to my files,
my archives at Brooklyn College, my alma mater. I will
help you in whatever ways you need. And from that
point forward, one of the things that was so interesting
to me is a few, well a few things. One
is that no subject was off limits. We talked about everything. Epstein,
(07:30):
his first marriage that ended terribly. We talked about everything.
No question was off limits, No person I wanted to
speak with was off limits, including his bitter enemies like
Noam Chompsky, the left wing activist whom I interviewed extensively
for the book. And in Durschwitz's archives at Brooklyn College,
(07:50):
there was no document he said, Oh no, I don't
want you to look him through Bouts twenty three nineteen.
I looked through all his highly confidential papers in the
from the O J case, from every case in his career.
Obviously I didn't publish the highly confidential things, but that
was just that was incredible to And the fact that
(08:12):
that Dershowitz didn't read a single word of the book
before it was published, All those things were incredible to me.
For a man who's as high profile as he is
and who has dealt with such difficult, tangled legal cases
like he has, it's it's it's extraordinary, all.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right, My guest, Solomon Schmidt, his book Legal Gladiator, The
Life of Alan Dershwitz, will get to that, but more importantly,
we'll get to all of the people that this young author,
really a journalist, was able to reach out to and
it's an amazing story. And keep in mind Solomon has
(08:56):
already mentioned his aide. He's twenty one years old. If
you saw this book, it's about I don't know. I
got to look at the end here how many pages
it is. It's nearly four hundred pages, and there are
about one hundred pages of footnotes and incitations and articles.
(09:18):
This was a herculean effort, plain and simple. And this
this looks like it could have been written as a
as a college well, there wouldn't be many college thesies
that would even look at this. If someone wrote this
as a college thesis to have a doctorate from Harvard
or Princeton and Yale, it would be exactly what you
(09:40):
would expect. It's unbelievable, but it is very credible. Let
me put it that way. I don't want to confuse
those words. If you'd like to talk with Solomon and
ask him any question you want, six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty or six one, seven, nine, three one ten
thirty or eight eight, eight nine to nine ten thirty.
(10:00):
I know there's a lot of numbers there. Write him
down and you'll never forget them back with Solomon Scheckter,
the author of the book Legal Gladiator, The Life of
Alan Derschwitz. It's only been out a month, but it
is an impressive work by anyone, particularly someone as young
as this author, who I guess if I had to
(10:22):
use a word, I would use the word prodigy. I
don't know how someone at this age journalistically professionally could
have created a such a book. I mean, it's incredible.
I know Alan Durschwitz very well. I don't know him
as well as Solomon knows him, but it's amazing as
(10:43):
I've read this book, the depths to which he has
plumbed Alan's life. This is an extraordinary book, and we'll
get to some of the people that he talked to.
You will not believe the list when we get through
this list at the end of the hour. Back on Nights,
I'd run after this.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the window World
Light Side Studios on w b Z the news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
My guest to Solomon Schmidt. Legal Gladiator is the book
The Life of Alan Derschwitz. Okay, let's go through the
list of some of the people who you actually reached
out to. How'd you get to Oj Simpson?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
OJ Simpson was an odd story. I messaged him on
Twitter a couple of years ago. He got back to
me amazingly, and he put me in touch with a
gentleman whose name I can't reveal, who was a friend
of OJ's, the late ojs, and who handled OJ's whatever
(11:48):
personal interviews and events he did, which which were very few,
I guess, And in a long time went by before
I was able to get that interview scheduled. And I
talked with miss Simpson in January of this year by phone,
and then three months later he was gone, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So pretty good timing there was he easy? What was he?
How'd you find O? J? Simpson? I mean, how was he?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Extremely charming? And I know other people have said this,
and I know that Dan. When it comes to the
OJ case and so many of the cases that Dershwitz
has dealt with, you have people dead, you have lives ruined.
So the things I say about these cases are said
with that in mind. But when it comes to my
interactions with mister Simpson, even though it was brief, very charming,
(12:42):
very kind, we made some small talk outside of Dershowitz.
We talked about the new Napoleon film which had just
come out, which we both had an interest in I'm
from Buffalo, and I told him my grandfather used to
watch him on TV running back for the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Could have watched him at the Old Rich Stadium.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
That's right, go Ja go.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I mean my grandpa used to jump up and then
yell at the DV screen, Go Ja go. And it's
just it's amazing to me.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So you also you also got the Donald Trump. How'd
you get to Donald Trump?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
He was through an interview I did with Senator Ted Cruz,
and Senator Cruz had a assistant working for him who
knew an assistant to President Trump. And again, amazingly, he
took time out of his incredibly busy life and schedule
to talk about Alan Dershowitz. I could about fifteen minutes
(13:46):
by phone, which I'm told from Professor Dershowitz that that
that's a fairly long phone call to get from a
former president.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, So if if Ted Cruz was your bridge to
Donald Trump, why were you talking to Ted Cruz? He
had been a student of Sits at Harvard Law.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
School, Yes, one of Dershwitz's ten thousand students at Harvard
Law School. Dershwitz was tenured at Harvard at the age
of twenty seven in nineteen sixty seven and taught up
until the year twenty thirteen. And he taught Ted Cruz.
He taught Mike Pompeo, Jamie Raskin, Elliot Spitzer, Elena Kagan,
(14:22):
Natalie Portman, people from both sides of the political aisle.
But Senator Cruz told me about how he and Professor
Dershowitz loved to engage each other in debate. One of
the things Cruz remembered was that when he would disagree
with something Professor Dershowitz said about the death penalty or
a decision by Justice Thomas or Scalia. When Cruz would
(14:43):
engage Professor Dershwitz in an argument, Dershwitz's eyes would light up,
and he would physically walk closer in excitement towards Cruz's desk,
and they would go back and forth and then continue
the conversation in Dershowitz's office after the classroom. But what
an example of these two brilliant minds. Not to get
(15:04):
political here, but these two brilliant minds having these discussions
and debates and thriving on it and enjoying it, And
that sums up the kind of person Dershowitz is. He's
done that his whole career, back to William Buckley in
the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Wow. Okay, So now one more that I found to
be very interesting that you talked with Mike Tyson. I
was interested to learn that apparently Allan had been Mike
Tyson's appellate lawyer at one.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Point he was. Tyson was convicted in the early nineties
of raping a beauty contestant winner named Desiree Washington. And
it's one of the in fact, off the top of
my head, the only high profile case where Dershowitz has
(15:58):
gone out of his way to say that he believes
his client was absolutely innocent. And I know that's very
controversial to people. We can talk about that. But Dershwitz
came into the case, worked as Tyson's appellate lawyer, and
did not did not win the case. Tyson went to
jail and spent some difficult, hard years in prison, which
(16:21):
which I spoke with him about in an interview we did.
After the conversation we had about Professor Dershwitz, Mike kindly
came on my History Yes YouTube channel and we had
we had hours of conversation together, which was one of
the most meaningful experiences I've had. He is he is
(16:42):
a kind, thoughtful, extraordinarily humble person. I mean for being
on the top of the world when it comes to
money and fame. I mean, Dan, I have been in
Tanzania and in the middle of Portugal and Africa and
people who Mike Tyson is and and so to sit
(17:03):
with a guy who is that well known and that
at that rich and successful, to hear his wisdom and
humility and thoughts about life and death and why we're here,
it was really really moving. He's just such a kind person.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And then kind person. But you don't want to get
in the ring with him, Okay, So listen. You also
met with r f K Junr. And I assume this
is long before RFK Junior dropped out of the presidential
race and endorsed Donald Trump. What did you learn from
our from RFK Jr?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Well, do you know, I Dershowitz knew RFK Junior's father
fairly well, and there was there was talk when when
RFK looked like our potential future president in nineteen sixty eight,
Dershowitz told me that he was going to be in
some capacity in some small position in rfk's potential administration
(18:02):
and in Brooklyn College. I found letters back and forth
between Dershowitz and RFK Senior, hand signed by RFK Senior
in the early sixties. So Dershwitz knew RFK Junior's father,
but then he knows Junior through the vineyard because a
junior has a place near the vineyard and would drive
his boat out to this Areamnemsha pond on Martha's vineyard
(18:25):
and so yes, and Dershwitz has also helped Junior on
various cases throughout his career, always pro bono, always, always
with no reciprocation ass just just doing it as a friend,
rehearsing RFK Junior's arguments. Uh, Junior told me that he
would give Dershowitz homework that would require a lot of
(18:48):
thinking and planning, and Dershwitz would do it because they
were friends. And that's something you'll learn about about him,
is what a loyal person he is. It's it's not
to make him out to be a saint, because he
has his faults like all of us do. But he's
a very loyal person. And you know, you know, Dan,
(19:09):
you mentioned something earlier on the earlier segment, and I
appreciate the kind words you said about the book being
an extensively researched book, and you know, a book that
could be seen as worthy of being a college thesis
or however you put it. One of the things I'd
like to point out is that in the midst of
(19:29):
all of the overwhelming ness of Dershowitz's career, the almost
three hundred cases as a lawyer, the fifty years at
Harvard Law School, the career as a Zionist, a pro
Israel advocate who has advised so many Israeli prime ministers,
as a best selling author and speaker, a couple things
(19:51):
drove me on in my research, and they were related
to the more human part of Dirshwitz's story. One of
the questions that fascinates me, fascinated me and still fascinates
me is how does a kid who's this punk teenager
from Brooklyn is, who has horrible grades in school, who's
(20:12):
terribly behaved at home and in the classroom, fakes his
own suicide and things like that. I mean, when Dershwitz
was growing up, mothers of girls in his neighborhood told
their daughters don't have anything to do with av That
was his nickname, av I A. V. Dershowitz. He's a
boy with no future. How does that kid end up
(20:36):
sixty odd years later standing on the floor of the
Senate in an impeachment trial defending a president of the
United States, And as he's giving his speech with the
Chief Justice of our nation sitting behind him, and the
see of Senators, the leaders of our country in front
of him, some of these faces he's looking out upon
(21:00):
were people who sat at his feet at Harvard Law
School decades previously. How does that happen? And then another
question was why does a man who until recently is
a member of the Democratic Party has only voted Democratic
except with one occasion when he voted for his next
door neighbor, Bill Weld, who was running as a Republican
(21:21):
for Massachusetts. Besides his recent departure from the Democratic Party,
Why does a Democrat like Dershwitz defend President Trump and
knowing he's going to be ostracized for it, Knowing his wife,
his children, his closest friends, most of them, many of
(21:42):
his supporters and colleagues are going to oppose him in
that why does he do that? That is an intriguing
question to me.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
I think because he's a very principled individual who follows
not only his mind, but a north star of integrity,
I guess would be the way I would describe it.
Let's take a quick break. My guess Solomon Schmid his
book Legal Gladiator, the Life of Alan Derschwitz. If you'd
like to ask Solomon a question or make a comment.
(22:11):
The book has just come out. It's published by Skyhorse Publishing,
which is just published the Book of Missus Trump. So
this is a big time publishing company with a big
time book, and this is a young author. He's twenty
one years old. That is what is truly amazing. We'll
take a break. We're here on Nightside. My name is
(22:34):
Dan Ray. His is Solomon Schmidt. The book Legal Gladiator.
You have the numbers, the Life of Alan Derschwitz. Coming
right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
If you're on night Side with Dan Ray, I'm WAZ
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
My guest is Solomon Schmidt. He's a twenty one year
old author who if you have listened to him, know
that he is far beyond his age in years. Legal
Gladiated the Life of Alan Dershwitz. I want to get
a couple of phone calls. We also have Harvey Silverglad
who's going to join us as well. When they go
to Betty on the boat, Betty, welcome, welcome back. Say
(23:11):
hi to Solomon Schmidt. What's your comment of question about.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Alan Dershowitz, Hi, Solomon, how are you, Betty?
Speaker 6 (23:19):
How are you?
Speaker 7 (23:21):
I'm fine. I was wondering about the early years of
Alan Dershowitz when he got out, when he started his clerkship.
Do you know did he speak at all about David
batt the honorable I don't half lingeis so bear with me.
(23:41):
Did he speak at all about the honorable Judge David Bazelon.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Bazilon, David Basilon, yep, well known judge.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Go ahead, Solomon, Yes he did, and he talked about
how Judge Basilon taught him that compassion must come before
the law. And and you see that that theme of
compassion coming out in Dershowitz's career in some of the
pro bono work he's done for Soviet uh Jewish people
(24:14):
who were oppressed by the former Soviet regime, for Romanian
citizens who were oppressed under Nikolai Kucesco, and in a
way that that goes back to his early training from
David Basilon, who who went out of his way to
fight for the poor. The the I think the other
(24:36):
words both was used was the indigen indigen disabled, and
I think that I think that was deeply meaningful to Dershowitz.
And you see that in his personality today. He's he's
very compassionate to to disabled people, to people of all
different walks of life. Uh that that's a great question,
(24:56):
and you can learn more about Judge Basilon. I I
think it's chapter three, it's called Big Feet, and that's
the chapter where I talk about his clerkship with Basilon
and also with Justice Arthur Goldberg.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
The reason I asked was I knew Judge Basil, I
know very well, and it wasn't until I sort of
retired that I found out about his relationship with Dershowitz.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
How did you know Judge Basilon, Betty.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Through my days mass General?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Okay, and if you were there in a medical capacity,
we will we will stop the questioning right there. Okay.
Speaker 7 (25:43):
He was a great guy, an absolutely great guy. He
was down to earth, he could joke with you, and
he was just marveless as a human being, and I
wanted to hear what life was like for Alan Dershwitz
in the early years as his clerk.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well then she tailed a lot in the book. Betty.
So the book is legal Gladiator. I think you'd enjoy it.
I really would, particularly since you had that connection.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Thank you, Betty, I thank you for writing the book.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Oh my pleasure, Betty talking about the best.
Speaker 7 (26:18):
Now I have to do pretty gas station.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Okay, in your boat, in your boat, great night. You
let me go to Jack and Newton. Jack next on
the night side. You're all with Solomon Schmid. Go right ahead, Jack.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
I'm Jack Porter. I'm a spisiologist and a historian at Harvard,
got writing a book called Hutzbagh at Harvard about the scandals.
But I take a little different view. I think Allen
destroyed his career. I taken out of the Upstain case
and then later the Trump case. You could say it
was principle, but I could make a strong argument it
(26:55):
was also ego too. And I don't know if you're
books a geography or is it critical. But I'm not
sure who alone even knows who he is. Is he
a liberal? Is a conservative? Is a democratgy or a publician.
Everyone's kind to feel silling for him because maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Maybe he's a man of many, Maybe he's a man
of principal, Jack, who looks at every situation, uh not
through the lens of a political party or a political philosophy.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Well, Dan, can I take this one?
Speaker 6 (27:27):
But I can't start complaining and whining.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Jack, Why don't you allow the author to respond to
the point you made here? Here's Solomon go ahead of Solomon.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So Jack, that is a really excellent couple points. I
totally appreciate where you're coming from. The book is not hagiography.
I witnessed Dershowitz's faults and I wrote about them. And
he's certainly, by the testimony of his friends and family,
has an ego, and I think he would tell you
that himself too. And one of the things Dershowitz says
(27:59):
that I think is wise is that people can have
mixed motives, I mean, personally. When it comes to Trump,
I suspect it was principle and also the fact that
he's a natural contrarian, and that is what feeds into
you know, is he a democrat? Is he a Republican?
His whole career people have wondered that about him. He's
(28:20):
a unique human being in that his personality is naturally
to go against the stream, to swim against the stream.
To if one whole group of people are saying and
thinking one way, he's going to think another. So there's
an element of that. But when it comes to Trump,
(28:41):
just let him.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Finish Jack and then you'll have final word. I promise,
please go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
And so when it comes to Trump, there seems to
be very good evidence that both factors played into his
decision making, although only Dershwitz can know what the final
reasoning was. And when it comes to Epstein, Uh, it's
it's up to you, it's up to me, It's up
to anyone to judge whether or not that was the
(29:06):
wise thing to do. But Dershowitz says that Epstein called
him up said he needed legal help. Dershowitz new Epstein
as a as a not a close friend, but as
an intellectual friend, and agreed to help him with his
legal trouble. Now, people understandably might be very upset about that,
(29:27):
but I think that's how we need to understand both
those situations. Humbly, If I can suggest that.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
Jack defending way. That was one of the regretted it.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Yes he did, Yes he does.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Jack. Let the record reflect that I did not hang
up on Jack. I gave him an opportunity to have
the final word, and that's the point he wanted to make.
Jack sometimes can be relatively argumentative caller of Solovon, so
he comes, he establishes his credentials, which is not necessary
(30:09):
in my opinion. Let me take one quick call here
before the break, and we're gonna We're gonna wrap with
Harvey silver Glad on the other side of the break.
Let me go to Donna. Donna, I'm gonna get you
on here before the the news the commercial break. You're next, Donaca,
right ahead.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
You're probably not gonna be too happy. I'm in awe
of Alan Dersho was his intellect. But the thing that
I don't like about him is brilliant people as he is,
I do not have to keep telling you how brilliant
they are. We can see for ourselves. So that's the
(30:48):
drawback that I have. I don't want to brilliant always
telling me I'm brilliant here.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
When did he tell you or when did you hear
him say that?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
He from the way he talks about himself when he's
being interviewed.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What, Donna, Donna just I'm having a conversation. I'm looking,
I'm trying to think of I've added Alan on the
show several times, and I can't remember a time when.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
He he doesn't say he doesn't say the words I
am brilliant, but he's always pointing out how intelligent and
brilliant is that. I just find that off putting.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Well again, if you find it off putting, I just
can't think of an example. But maybe Solomon can go ahead, Solomon.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Well, Donna, again, like with Jack, I understand where you're
coming from. And I want to be careful because on
some level Alan is a friend of mine and it's
not my place to speak poorly of him as a
human being. However, I can, I can. I can understand
that that Alan can be intimidating by his brilliance and
(31:55):
that his when he talks about his career. Yes, he
does talk about himself. But one of the things that's interesting, Donna,
is when you have someone like Alan or Alan Durschwitz,
who's a lawyer, who's a professor, who's a speaker, who's
who's an author, from the very beginning, you have a
man who on some level has to promote himself in
(32:18):
order to sell books, get cases. In a way, he's
a very smart business man, and that's that's how he's
made his living, and it's how he stayed It's partly
how he's stayed so relevant is being willing to give
his opinions and talk about the amazing things he's done
(32:40):
and all the people he's known. So I can see
how that could come off as as off putting and
kind of high and mighty. I can see that.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Seventy three though. I've been aware of.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Not going to dispute your feelings, but I took you
before the break because I didn't want to. If you
hang on, but I'm past my break, I think you
made your point. It's one you and I are going
to disagree on I have and sometime if you get
a chance to point it out to me other than
your your you know you ever subject the judgment. I
just can't ever remember him ever saying I think by
(33:18):
his own presentation, he's asserting his brilliance. It's like saying
Roger Clemens was a great picture. Roger Clemens never had
to say he was a great picture. You knew he
was a great picture from That's.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
My point exactly. That's my point exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Okay, So Roger Clemens was too brilliant a picture for
your taste.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
I guess he didn't know. He didn't have to tell
us he was a brilliant pitcher.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Well, just tell me at one point when tell me
at one point when I'm not gonna argue with your donna. Obviously,
we see appreciate the calls always, Thank you much. Here
we go. We got a quick break. Harvey silver Glake
coming up. We also a barrier on the other side
from normal. We'll get them both in back after this.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Win the
World night Side Studios on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Let me go to Barry and Norwal Barry, I'd like
you to be as quick as you could.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Oh, I want to hold him up. A quick comment
that I think is this is really good stuff, and
that talking about the rejection of mister Jesuits by former
friends and colleagues, it hurts. I understand that because I've
been through a little bit of it. When I've looked
at things in a fresh way and have friends have
(34:33):
dropped all contact with me. And there's a thread that
goes back and just here in New England or uh
of of radio and talk, going back to William F.
Buckley when I was the daughter of my political awareness
in the sixties and and I was on the opposite side,
but I admired him and he was always eager to
(34:58):
talk to people. And then David Brudnoy, and then John Batchelor,
and now when I was driving a cab, and now
now Dan Ray has picked up the ball. And you
think that people who have ideas that they're strong about
would be eager to uh spa in the you know,
circus of ideas or marketplaces. They say, I just don't
(35:20):
understand why people shut why didn't shut you down? And
they don't like him anymore because he changed his mind
on a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
That's exactly it. Barry. Look, you made great points. You
brought me back to to my own youth watching.
Speaker 8 (35:36):
Could I ask one more thing? You got to be
quick for me, because you know I own a bookstore.
Last year I opened a bookstore at Newton, and I'd
be honored to have as my first talk mister Solomon
here in the area again and do something like that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I forgot for a moment. Solomon Burry owns a bookstore
in Newton, and if you don't mind, I'm going to
give Solomon your number. Barry, is that okay? Sure, okay,
and Solomon. I will give this to Rob. Rob can
write it down as well. This might be an opportunity
for you to have an appearance here in Newton, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Thanks very much, Barry. I really appreciate and congratulations on
the bookstore. Thank you, thank you, Thanks Barry, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Stay there, Rob will take your number. We're going to
finish strong here with our good friend, a mutual friend,
Harvey silver Glade. Harvey, I know I've held you off here,
but I want to finish with you. You're on with
Solomon Schmid. Thank you for recommending him as a guest.
He's been a great guest.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
So let me just say one thing about Alan Durschwitz
and the people who stopped talking to him when he
represented Epstein, when he represented Trump. These people have no
idea what the ethics of the legal professional. If Alan
was a cardiologist, Trump or Epstein had a heart attack
(37:02):
on the streets of New York outside outside of the
apartment the cardiologists would have an ethical obligation to revive
that person, no matter how hateful. If Alan were a priest.
If Allan were a priest, the priest would have an
obligation to hear confession and then absolve that person of sins.
(37:25):
The criminal defense lawyer has one advantage over the physician
and the priest. There was a constitutional right to have counsel,
and Epstein had a constitutional right, and Trump was widely despised,
and it was not unusual to me. It was hardly
(37:48):
a surprise that my good friend Allan, whom I've known
since since we both arrived at Harvard Law School nineteen
sixty four, we immediately became friends because of our Brooklyn Act,
since there were not that many people from Brooklyn in
the student body or in the faculty. That's exactly what happened.
He had a Brooklyn accent, I had a Brooklyn accent,
(38:11):
and we bonded immediately, and we have done some very
difficult cases together, and I've seen him get by twoperation
and I keep thinking, you know, I've had some pretty
awful clients, and I have not been tarred and feted
because I've represented some pretty awful people somehow he has,
(38:34):
and I think it's partly because he's got a reputation
around the world, and maybe there's some envy involved. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Absolutely absolutely, Harvey, thank you for the opportunity to introduce
me to Solomon. I want to emphasize to the audience
Harvey did not underestimate this gentleman's accomplishments at the age
of twenty one. So I want to end it by Solomon.
The book is Legal Girl got He and the Life
(39:03):
of alandursh which by Solomon Schmidt. It is out now.
People can get it on Amazon. They get it a
lot of different places. I just think you were a
homeschooled young man. You have yet to graduate college, but
you've written a doctoral thesis that would be accepted I
(39:23):
think in every college in America. Congratulations Solomon. I so
enjoyed the hour in Harvey, thank you for suggesting this guest.
You've sat in the guest here many times. But Solomon
is an amazing He's a prodigy, I guess, is what I'm.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Trying to say, doing a book about a priorigy.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, and you and I will probably not see Solomon
fifty years from now, but I'd love to know what
he turns into fifty years from now, when you and
I have long left this mortal coil to both.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Of the if the days, let him grow up.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Well, thanks so much, Dan, thanks Harvey, and all of
you should know that this book, any of my books,
are only possible because of Harvey, because my mom, because
of my dad, because of very kind people who invest
in other people out of love, out of kindness. This
is going to sound like flattery, but that's all true.
(40:24):
And Harvey is a one of a kind person, not
just a lawyer, but a human being.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And I will endorse that sentiment with full throat, With
full throat, thanks Harvey. We'll talk soon. Solomon, thank you
as well. We've gone a little late, but here comes
the eleven o'clock news on Nightside.
I'm tell you all right.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back everyone. Thanks very much, Dan Watkins. I am
delighted to introduce you to a gentleman. I'm not going
to tell you how Oldie is right now. You may
know because I mentioned it a couple of times early
in the show, but if you don't. He's a published author.
His name is Solomon Schmidt. He's written, I think a
(00:29):
really good book on the life of Alan Dershowitz. He
titles it Legal Gladiator. If you're someone who's a lawyer
or aspiring to be a lawyer, or just interested in
the practice of law, I think this is a great book.
It really traces Alan Dershwitz, the roots of his family
(00:50):
and joining us. Now Solomon Schmid, Solomon, welcome to Nightside.
This is a great book.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
So thanks so much, Dan, I appreciate your kind words.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, it is. When I say it's a it's a biography,
it's a I refer to it as an authorized, unauthorized
biography because you received tremendous You had tremendous access not
only to Alan Dershowitz, but to a lot of the
(01:20):
high profile people that have intersected with his career. How
did you, Let's start at the beginning, how did you
successfully reach out to Alan Dershowitz, who is not necessarily
he's a pretty busy guy. How many hours?
Speaker 4 (01:37):
First?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, first, how'd you reach out? Then? Then we'll build
from there. How did you? First of all, what prompted
you do this to do a book on Alan Dershowitz.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, to make a long story, not overly long, Dan,
It starts actually with a love for New England, the
Patriots specifically, I'll explain. Years ago, my father, Mike, and I,
my family and I are from Buffalo. We were headed
out to a Patriots game in Massachusetts, obviously in Massachusetts,
(02:10):
and while we were on our way to Massachusetts, or
planning our trip to Massachusetts, I decided to look up
the most famous people in the state to try and
reach out to them to see if they would be
willing to do an interview on my history byes YouTube channel.
Number one was Matt Damon and number two was Alan Dershowitz.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Where was Tom Brady? Who was Bill Belichick? Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
They were up there. I don't remember the exact same.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Whatever the list was.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Dershwick was listed as a very famous man in Massachusetts,
so I was vaguely familiar with him at the time
as someone who was knowledgeable in the Constitution. So I
reached out to him to see if he would be
willing to do an interview or the for the kids
who watched my YouTube channel. But the more I looked
into his life, Dan, the more I realized that his
(03:09):
life story would be an amazing biography to do. And
I come to find out that no one had written
a biography of him, which which was shocking to me.
Fast forwarding of it, I later found out from Derschwitz
one time when I was with him. We were we
were together near his home on Martha's Vineyard. We were
(03:30):
driving and I asked him, I said, Alan, there's there's
been a question on my mind for a long time.
Why didn't anyone else write a biography of you? And
he said someone started to here on the vineyard back
in twenty eighteen, but they stopped when I went on
the floor of the Senate to represent President Trump.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So but going back to my he lost a lot
of friends with that, a lot of friends on Mars Davis.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He did, yes, he did. But going back to my
to wrap up the answers.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
We went from you going to a football game and
you're on the venue driving in a car with him.
What was the connection? How did you get to him?
I mean, Alan is not I mean he's a busy,
busy guy. How did you convince him that even to
talk to you?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, so initially, when I reached out to him and
I sent him an email to see if he would
come on my YouTube channel, he went dark on me.
He said he would do it, and then I didn't
hear back from him. That was June of twenty twenty one. Well,
I later found out that Dershwitz had a medical emergency
that month, So I just figured he got busy and
didn't have time to talk to me, and I let
months go by. I finished up the eighth book in
(04:39):
a series I was writing called History Bites, and when
I got done with that, my mind went back to
Dershwitz and I had thoughts.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Of a biography for me in my head, and.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I started to reach out to some folks who had
known him in his career. I started reading what I
could find about his career, and one of the first
people I reached out to sen email to was Harvey solberglate,
who's a civil liberties lawyer in Massachusetts and has founded
an organization called FIRE, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression,
(05:11):
which is becoming a new kind of ACLU. I mean, Harvey,
in his own way, has been a hugely influential figure
in our country recently.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh yeah, and by the way, Harvey's a frequent guest
in this program, and I count of homeworks my close
personal friends, A great a great man. So you used
Harvey to connect to reconnect with Allen.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Well, you know what it turned out, Dan, that I
struck I struck gold contacting Harvey. I didn't realize this
at the time, but Harvey has known Allan for sixty
years and is one of Allen's only friends who is
a Democrat who's stuck with Derschwitz through his representation of Trump,
(05:54):
and agreed with him on it. So when I reached
out to Harvey and with a list of questions of Dershowitz,
Harvey saw my work, my previous work, saw what I
was hoping, what I was planning to do with a
biography on Dershwitz. And when I told Harvey that I
was hoping to get in contact with Dershowitz, he went
(06:14):
to him and said, look, Solomon is a reputable author.
I think you can trust him. And little did I
know that. I mean, I couldn't have found a better
person really to tell that to Dershowitz, And so Dershowitz
agreed to speak with me. I met him in New
York City in March of or April of twenty twenty two,
(06:39):
and the first question he asked me right out of
the gate, Dan was why should I let an eighteen
year old write my authorized biography? And I laid out
my plan for the biography. I told Professor Dershwitz what
I had in mind and what I was hoping to
cover in his biography, who I was hoping to interview,
(06:59):
and he liked the plan and we left.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
We parted with that parted at that.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Meeting, and he said, let's work on this together, meaning
I'll be interviewed, I'll give you access to my files,
my archives at Brooklyn College, my alma mater. I will
help you in whatever ways you need. And from that
point forward, one of the things that was so interesting
to me is a few, well a few things. One
is that no subject was off limits. We talked about everything. Epstein,
(07:30):
his first marriage that ended terribly. We talked about everything.
No question was off limits, No person I wanted to
speak with was off limits, including his bitter enemies like
Noam Chompsky, the left wing activist whom I interviewed extensively
for the book. And in Durschwitz's archives at Brooklyn College,
(07:50):
there was no document he said, Oh no, I don't
want you to look him through Bouts twenty three nineteen.
I looked through all his highly confidential papers in the
from the O J case, from every case in his career.
Obviously I didn't publish the highly confidential things, but that
was just that was incredible to And the fact that
(08:12):
that Dershowitz didn't read a single word of the book
before it was published, All those things were incredible to me.
For a man who's as high profile as he is
and who has dealt with such difficult, tangled legal cases
like he has, it's it's it's extraordinary, all.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right, My guest, Solomon Schmidt, his book Legal Gladiator, The
Life of Alan Dershwitz, will get to that, but more importantly,
we'll get to all of the people that this young author,
really a journalist, was able to reach out to and
it's an amazing story. And keep in mind Solomon has
(08:56):
already mentioned his aide. He's twenty one years old. If
you saw this book, it's about I don't know. I
got to look at the end here how many pages
it is. It's nearly four hundred pages, and there are
about one hundred pages of footnotes and incitations and articles.
(09:18):
This was a herculean effort, plain and simple. And this
this looks like it could have been written as a
as a college well, there wouldn't be many college thesies
that would even look at this. If someone wrote this
as a college thesis to have a doctorate from Harvard
or Princeton and Yale, it would be exactly what you
(09:40):
would expect. It's unbelievable, but it is very credible. Let
me put it that way. I don't want to confuse
those words. If you'd like to talk with Solomon and
ask him any question you want, six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty or six one, seven, nine, three one ten
thirty or eight eight, eight nine to nine ten thirty.
(10:00):
I know there's a lot of numbers there. Write him
down and you'll never forget them back with Solomon Scheckter,
the author of the book Legal Gladiator, The Life of
Alan Derschwitz. It's only been out a month, but it
is an impressive work by anyone, particularly someone as young
as this author, who I guess if I had to
(10:22):
use a word, I would use the word prodigy. I
don't know how someone at this age journalistically professionally could
have created a such a book. I mean, it's incredible.
I know Alan Durschwitz very well. I don't know him
as well as Solomon knows him, but it's amazing as
(10:43):
I've read this book, the depths to which he has
plumbed Alan's life. This is an extraordinary book, and we'll
get to some of the people that he talked to.
You will not believe the list when we get through
this list at the end of the hour. Back on Nights,
I'd run after this.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the window World
Light Side Studios on w b Z the news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
My guest to Solomon Schmidt. Legal Gladiator is the book
The Life of Alan Derschwitz. Okay, let's go through the
list of some of the people who you actually reached
out to. How'd you get to Oj Simpson?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
OJ Simpson was an odd story. I messaged him on
Twitter a couple of years ago. He got back to
me amazingly, and he put me in touch with a
gentleman whose name I can't reveal, who was a friend
of OJ's, the late ojs, and who handled OJ's whatever
(11:48):
personal interviews and events he did, which which were very few,
I guess, And in a long time went by before
I was able to get that interview scheduled. And I
talked with miss Simpson in January of this year by phone,
and then three months later he was gone, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So pretty good timing there was he easy? What was he?
How'd you find O? J? Simpson? I mean, how was he?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Extremely charming? And I know other people have said this,
and I know that Dan. When it comes to the
OJ case and so many of the cases that Dershwitz
has dealt with, you have people dead, you have lives ruined.
So the things I say about these cases are said
with that in mind. But when it comes to my
interactions with mister Simpson, even though it was brief, very charming,
(12:42):
very kind, we made some small talk outside of Dershowitz.
We talked about the new Napoleon film which had just
come out, which we both had an interest in I'm
from Buffalo, and I told him my grandfather used to
watch him on TV running back for the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Could have watched him at the Old Rich Stadium.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
That's right, go Ja go.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I mean my grandpa used to jump up and then
yell at the DV screen, Go Ja go. And it's
just it's amazing to me.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So you also you also got the Donald Trump. How'd
you get to Donald Trump?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
He was through an interview I did with Senator Ted Cruz,
and Senator Cruz had a assistant working for him who
knew an assistant to President Trump. And again, amazingly, he
took time out of his incredibly busy life and schedule
to talk about Alan Dershowitz. I could about fifteen minutes
(13:46):
by phone, which I'm told from Professor Dershowitz that that
that's a fairly long phone call to get from a
former president.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Okay, So if if Ted Cruz was your bridge to
Donald Trump, why were you talking to Ted Cruz? He
had been a student of Sits at Harvard Law.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
School, Yes, one of Dershwitz's ten thousand students at Harvard
Law School. Dershwitz was tenured at Harvard at the age
of twenty seven in nineteen sixty seven and taught up
until the year twenty thirteen. And he taught Ted Cruz.
He taught Mike Pompeo, Jamie Raskin, Elliot Spitzer, Elena Kagan,
(14:22):
Natalie Portman, people from both sides of the political aisle.
But Senator Cruz told me about how he and Professor
Dershowitz loved to engage each other in debate. One of
the things Cruz remembered was that when he would disagree
with something Professor Dershowitz said about the death penalty or
a decision by Justice Thomas or Scalia. When Cruz would
(14:43):
engage Professor Dershwitz in an argument, Dershwitz's eyes would light up,
and he would physically walk closer in excitement towards Cruz's desk,
and they would go back and forth and then continue
the conversation in Dershowitz's office after the classroom. But what
an example of these two brilliant minds. Not to get
(15:04):
political here, but these two brilliant minds having these discussions
and debates and thriving on it and enjoying it, And
that sums up the kind of person Dershowitz is. He's
done that his whole career, back to William Buckley in
the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Wow. Okay, So now one more that I found to
be very interesting that you talked with Mike Tyson. I
was interested to learn that apparently Allan had been Mike
Tyson's appellate lawyer at one.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Point he was. Tyson was convicted in the early nineties
of raping a beauty contestant winner named Desiree Washington. And
it's one of the in fact, off the top of
my head, the only high profile case where Dershowitz has
(15:58):
gone out of his way to say that he believes
his client was absolutely innocent. And I know that's very
controversial to people. We can talk about that. But Dershwitz
came into the case, worked as Tyson's appellate lawyer, and
did not did not win the case. Tyson went to
jail and spent some difficult, hard years in prison, which
(16:21):
which I spoke with him about in an interview we did.
After the conversation we had about Professor Dershwitz, Mike kindly
came on my History Yes YouTube channel and we had
we had hours of conversation together, which was one of
the most meaningful experiences I've had. He is he is
(16:42):
a kind, thoughtful, extraordinarily humble person. I mean for being
on the top of the world when it comes to
money and fame. I mean, Dan, I have been in
Tanzania and in the middle of Portugal and Africa and
people who Mike Tyson is and and so to sit
(17:03):
with a guy who is that well known and that
at that rich and successful, to hear his wisdom and
humility and thoughts about life and death and why we're here,
it was really really moving. He's just such a kind person.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And then kind person. But you don't want to get
in the ring with him, Okay, So listen. You also
met with r f K Junr. And I assume this
is long before RFK Junior dropped out of the presidential
race and endorsed Donald Trump. What did you learn from
our from RFK Jr?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Well, do you know, I Dershowitz knew RFK Junior's father
fairly well, and there was there was talk when when
RFK looked like our potential future president in nineteen sixty eight,
Dershowitz told me that he was going to be in
some capacity in some small position in rfk's potential administration
(18:02):
and in Brooklyn College. I found letters back and forth
between Dershowitz and RFK Senior, hand signed by RFK Senior
in the early sixties. So Dershwitz knew RFK Junior's father,
but then he knows Junior through the vineyard because a
junior has a place near the vineyard and would drive
his boat out to this Areamnemsha pond on Martha's vineyard
(18:25):
and so yes, and Dershwitz has also helped Junior on
various cases throughout his career, always pro bono, always, always
with no reciprocation ass just just doing it as a friend,
rehearsing RFK Junior's arguments. Uh, Junior told me that he
would give Dershowitz homework that would require a lot of
(18:48):
thinking and planning, and Dershwitz would do it because they
were friends. And that's something you'll learn about about him,
is what a loyal person he is. It's it's not
to make him out to be a saint, because he
has his faults like all of us do. But he's
a very loyal person. And you know, you know, Dan,
(19:09):
you mentioned something earlier on the earlier segment, and I
appreciate the kind words you said about the book being
an extensively researched book, and you know, a book that
could be seen as worthy of being a college thesis
or however you put it. One of the things I'd
like to point out is that in the midst of
(19:29):
all of the overwhelming ness of Dershowitz's career, the almost
three hundred cases as a lawyer, the fifty years at
Harvard Law School, the career as a Zionist, a pro
Israel advocate who has advised so many Israeli prime ministers,
as a best selling author and speaker, a couple things
(19:51):
drove me on in my research, and they were related
to the more human part of Dirshwitz's story. One of
the questions that fascinates me, fascinated me and still fascinates
me is how does a kid who's this punk teenager
from Brooklyn is, who has horrible grades in school, who's
(20:12):
terribly behaved at home and in the classroom, fakes his
own suicide and things like that. I mean, when Dershwitz
was growing up, mothers of girls in his neighborhood told
their daughters don't have anything to do with av That
was his nickname, av I A. V. Dershowitz. He's a
boy with no future. How does that kid end up
(20:36):
sixty odd years later standing on the floor of the
Senate in an impeachment trial defending a president of the
United States, And as he's giving his speech with the
Chief Justice of our nation sitting behind him, and the
see of Senators, the leaders of our country in front
of him, some of these faces he's looking out upon
(21:00):
were people who sat at his feet at Harvard Law
School decades previously. How does that happen? And then another
question was why does a man who until recently is
a member of the Democratic Party has only voted Democratic
except with one occasion when he voted for his next
door neighbor, Bill Weld, who was running as a Republican
(21:21):
for Massachusetts. Besides his recent departure from the Democratic Party,
Why does a Democrat like Dershwitz defend President Trump and
knowing he's going to be ostracized for it, Knowing his wife,
his children, his closest friends, most of them, many of
(21:42):
his supporters and colleagues are going to oppose him in
that why does he do that? That is an intriguing
question to me.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
I think because he's a very principled individual who follows
not only his mind, but a north star of integrity,
I guess would be the way I would describe it.
Let's take a quick break. My guess Solomon Schmid his
book Legal Gladiator, the Life of Alan Derschwitz. If you'd
like to ask Solomon a question or make a comment.
(22:11):
The book has just come out. It's published by Skyhorse Publishing,
which is just published the Book of Missus Trump. So
this is a big time publishing company with a big
time book, and this is a young author. He's twenty
one years old. That is what is truly amazing. We'll
take a break. We're here on Nightside. My name is
(22:34):
Dan Ray. His is Solomon Schmidt. The book Legal Gladiator.
You have the numbers, the Life of Alan Derschwitz. Coming
right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
If you're on night Side with Dan Ray, I'm WAZ
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
My guest is Solomon Schmidt. He's a twenty one year
old author who if you have listened to him, know
that he is far beyond his age in years. Legal
Gladiated the Life of Alan Dershwitz. I want to get
a couple of phone calls. We also have Harvey Silverglad
who's going to join us as well. When they go
to Betty on the boat, Betty, welcome, welcome back. Say
(23:11):
hi to Solomon Schmidt. What's your comment of question about.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Alan Dershowitz, Hi, Solomon, how are you, Betty?
Speaker 6 (23:19):
How are you?
Speaker 7 (23:21):
I'm fine. I was wondering about the early years of
Alan Dershowitz when he got out, when he started his clerkship.
Do you know did he speak at all about David
batt the honorable I don't half lingeis so bear with me.
(23:41):
Did he speak at all about the honorable Judge David Bazelon.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Bazilon, David Basilon, yep, well known judge.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Go ahead, Solomon, Yes he did, and he talked about
how Judge Basilon taught him that compassion must come before
the law. And and you see that that theme of
compassion coming out in Dershowitz's career in some of the
pro bono work he's done for Soviet uh Jewish people
(24:14):
who were oppressed by the former Soviet regime, for Romanian
citizens who were oppressed under Nikolai Kucesco, and in a
way that that goes back to his early training from
David Basilon, who who went out of his way to
fight for the poor. The the I think the other
(24:36):
words both was used was the indigen indigen disabled, and
I think that I think that was deeply meaningful to Dershowitz.
And you see that in his personality today. He's he's
very compassionate to to disabled people, to people of all
different walks of life. Uh that that's a great question,
(24:56):
and you can learn more about Judge Basilon. I I
think it's chapter three, it's called Big Feet, and that's
the chapter where I talk about his clerkship with Basilon
and also with Justice Arthur Goldberg.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
The reason I asked was I knew Judge Basil, I
know very well, and it wasn't until I sort of
retired that I found out about his relationship with Dershowitz.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
How did you know Judge Basilon, Betty.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Through my days mass General?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Okay, and if you were there in a medical capacity,
we will we will stop the questioning right there. Okay.
Speaker 7 (25:43):
He was a great guy, an absolutely great guy. He
was down to earth, he could joke with you, and
he was just marveless as a human being, and I
wanted to hear what life was like for Alan Dershwitz
in the early years as his clerk.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well then she tailed a lot in the book. Betty.
So the book is legal Gladiator. I think you'd enjoy it.
I really would, particularly since you had that connection.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Thank you, Betty, I thank you for writing the book.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Oh my pleasure, Betty talking about the best.
Speaker 7 (26:18):
Now I have to do pretty gas station.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Okay, in your boat, in your boat, great night. You
let me go to Jack and Newton. Jack next on
the night side. You're all with Solomon Schmid. Go right ahead, Jack.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
I'm Jack Porter. I'm a spisiologist and a historian at Harvard,
got writing a book called Hutzbagh at Harvard about the scandals.
But I take a little different view. I think Allen
destroyed his career. I taken out of the Upstain case
and then later the Trump case. You could say it
was principle, but I could make a strong argument it
(26:55):
was also ego too. And I don't know if you're
books a geography or is it critical. But I'm not
sure who alone even knows who he is. Is he
a liberal? Is a conservative? Is a democratgy or a publician.
Everyone's kind to feel silling for him because maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Maybe he's a man of many, Maybe he's a man
of principal, Jack, who looks at every situation, uh not
through the lens of a political party or a political philosophy.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Well, Dan, can I take this one?
Speaker 6 (27:27):
But I can't start complaining and whining.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Jack, Why don't you allow the author to respond to
the point you made here? Here's Solomon go ahead of Solomon.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So Jack, that is a really excellent couple points. I
totally appreciate where you're coming from. The book is not hagiography.
I witnessed Dershowitz's faults and I wrote about them. And
he's certainly, by the testimony of his friends and family,
has an ego, and I think he would tell you
that himself too. And one of the things Dershowitz says
(27:59):
that I think is wise is that people can have
mixed motives, I mean, personally. When it comes to Trump,
I suspect it was principle and also the fact that
he's a natural contrarian, and that is what feeds into
you know, is he a democrat? Is he a Republican?
His whole career people have wondered that about him. He's
(28:20):
a unique human being in that his personality is naturally
to go against the stream, to swim against the stream.
To if one whole group of people are saying and
thinking one way, he's going to think another. So there's
an element of that. But when it comes to Trump,
(28:41):
just let him.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Finish Jack and then you'll have final word. I promise,
please go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
And so when it comes to Trump, there seems to
be very good evidence that both factors played into his
decision making, although only Dershwitz can know what the final
reasoning was. And when it comes to Epstein, Uh, it's
it's up to you, it's up to me, It's up
to anyone to judge whether or not that was the
(29:06):
wise thing to do. But Dershowitz says that Epstein called
him up said he needed legal help. Dershowitz new Epstein
as a as a not a close friend, but as
an intellectual friend, and agreed to help him with his
legal trouble. Now, people understandably might be very upset about that,
(29:27):
but I think that's how we need to understand both
those situations. Humbly, If I can suggest that.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
Jack defending way. That was one of the regretted it.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Yes he did, Yes he does.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Jack. Let the record reflect that I did not hang
up on Jack. I gave him an opportunity to have
the final word, and that's the point he wanted to make.
Jack sometimes can be relatively argumentative caller of Solovon, so
he comes, he establishes his credentials, which is not necessary
(30:09):
in my opinion. Let me take one quick call here
before the break, and we're gonna We're gonna wrap with
Harvey silver Glad on the other side of the break.
Let me go to Donna. Donna, I'm gonna get you
on here before the the news the commercial break. You're next, Donaca,
right ahead.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
You're probably not gonna be too happy. I'm in awe
of Alan Dersho was his intellect. But the thing that
I don't like about him is brilliant people as he is,
I do not have to keep telling you how brilliant
they are. We can see for ourselves. So that's the
(30:48):
drawback that I have. I don't want to brilliant always
telling me I'm brilliant here.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
When did he tell you or when did you hear
him say that?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
He from the way he talks about himself when he's
being interviewed.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
What, Donna, Donna just I'm having a conversation. I'm looking,
I'm trying to think of I've added Alan on the
show several times, and I can't remember a time when.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
He he doesn't say he doesn't say the words I
am brilliant, but he's always pointing out how intelligent and
brilliant is that. I just find that off putting.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Well again, if you find it off putting, I just
can't think of an example. But maybe Solomon can go ahead, Solomon.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Well, Donna, again, like with Jack, I understand where you're
coming from. And I want to be careful because on
some level Alan is a friend of mine and it's
not my place to speak poorly of him as a
human being. However, I can, I can. I can understand
that that Alan can be intimidating by his brilliance and
(31:55):
that his when he talks about his career. Yes, he
does talk about himself. But one of the things that's interesting, Donna,
is when you have someone like Alan or Alan Durschwitz,
who's a lawyer, who's a professor, who's a speaker, who's
who's an author, from the very beginning, you have a
man who on some level has to promote himself in
(32:18):
order to sell books, get cases. In a way, he's
a very smart business man, and that's that's how he's
made his living, and it's how he stayed It's partly
how he's stayed so relevant is being willing to give
his opinions and talk about the amazing things he's done
(32:40):
and all the people he's known. So I can see
how that could come off as as off putting and
kind of high and mighty. I can see that.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Seventy three though. I've been aware of.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Not going to dispute your feelings, but I took you
before the break because I didn't want to. If you
hang on, but I'm past my break, I think you
made your point. It's one you and I are going
to disagree on I have and sometime if you get
a chance to point it out to me other than
your your you know you ever subject the judgment. I
just can't ever remember him ever saying I think by
(33:18):
his own presentation, he's asserting his brilliance. It's like saying
Roger Clemens was a great picture. Roger Clemens never had
to say he was a great picture. You knew he
was a great picture from That's.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
My point exactly. That's my point exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Okay, So Roger Clemens was too brilliant a picture for
your taste.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
I guess he didn't know. He didn't have to tell
us he was a brilliant pitcher.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Well, just tell me at one point when tell me
at one point when I'm not gonna argue with your donna. Obviously,
we see appreciate the calls always, Thank you much. Here
we go. We got a quick break. Harvey silver Glake
coming up. We also a barrier on the other side
from normal. We'll get them both in back after this.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Win the
World night Side Studios on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Let me go to Barry and Norwal Barry, I'd like
you to be as quick as you could.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Oh, I want to hold him up. A quick comment
that I think is this is really good stuff, and
that talking about the rejection of mister Jesuits by former
friends and colleagues, it hurts. I understand that because I've
been through a little bit of it. When I've looked
at things in a fresh way and have friends have
(34:33):
dropped all contact with me. And there's a thread that
goes back and just here in New England or uh
of of radio and talk, going back to William F.
Buckley when I was the daughter of my political awareness
in the sixties and and I was on the opposite side,
but I admired him and he was always eager to
(34:58):
talk to people. And then David Brudnoy, and then John Batchelor,
and now when I was driving a cab, and now
now Dan Ray has picked up the ball. And you
think that people who have ideas that they're strong about
would be eager to uh spa in the you know,
circus of ideas or marketplaces. They say, I just don't
(35:20):
understand why people shut why didn't shut you down? And
they don't like him anymore because he changed his mind
on a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
That's exactly it. Barry. Look, you made great points. You
brought me back to to my own youth watching.
Speaker 8 (35:36):
Could I ask one more thing? You got to be
quick for me, because you know I own a bookstore.
Last year I opened a bookstore at Newton, and I'd
be honored to have as my first talk mister Solomon
here in the area again and do something like that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I forgot for a moment. Solomon Burry owns a bookstore
in Newton, and if you don't mind, I'm going to
give Solomon your number. Barry, is that okay? Sure, okay,
and Solomon. I will give this to Rob. Rob can
write it down as well. This might be an opportunity
for you to have an appearance here in Newton, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Thanks very much, Barry. I really appreciate and congratulations on
the bookstore. Thank you, thank you, Thanks Barry, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Stay there, Rob will take your number. We're going to
finish strong here with our good friend, a mutual friend,
Harvey silver Glade. Harvey, I know I've held you off here,
but I want to finish with you. You're on with
Solomon Schmid. Thank you for recommending him as a guest.
He's been a great guest.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
So let me just say one thing about Alan Durschwitz
and the people who stopped talking to him when he
represented Epstein, when he represented Trump. These people have no
idea what the ethics of the legal professional. If Alan
was a cardiologist, Trump or Epstein had a heart attack
(37:02):
on the streets of New York outside outside of the
apartment the cardiologists would have an ethical obligation to revive
that person, no matter how hateful. If Alan were a priest.
If Allan were a priest, the priest would have an
obligation to hear confession and then absolve that person of sins.
(37:25):
The criminal defense lawyer has one advantage over the physician
and the priest. There was a constitutional right to have counsel,
and Epstein had a constitutional right, and Trump was widely despised,
and it was not unusual to me. It was hardly
(37:48):
a surprise that my good friend Allan, whom I've known
since since we both arrived at Harvard Law School nineteen
sixty four, we immediately became friends because of our Brooklyn Act,
since there were not that many people from Brooklyn in
the student body or in the faculty. That's exactly what happened.
He had a Brooklyn accent, I had a Brooklyn accent,
(38:11):
and we bonded immediately, and we have done some very
difficult cases together, and I've seen him get by twoperation
and I keep thinking, you know, I've had some pretty
awful clients, and I have not been tarred and feted
because I've represented some pretty awful people somehow he has,
(38:34):
and I think it's partly because he's got a reputation
around the world, and maybe there's some envy involved. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Absolutely absolutely, Harvey, thank you for the opportunity to introduce
me to Solomon. I want to emphasize to the audience
Harvey did not underestimate this gentleman's accomplishments at the age
of twenty one. So I want to end it by Solomon.
The book is Legal Girl got He and the Life
(39:03):
of alandursh which by Solomon Schmidt. It is out now.
People can get it on Amazon. They get it a
lot of different places. I just think you were a
homeschooled young man. You have yet to graduate college, but
you've written a doctoral thesis that would be accepted I
(39:23):
think in every college in America. Congratulations Solomon. I so
enjoyed the hour in Harvey, thank you for suggesting this guest.
You've sat in the guest here many times. But Solomon
is an amazing He's a prodigy, I guess, is what I'm.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Trying to say, doing a book about a priorigy.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, and you and I will probably not see Solomon
fifty years from now, but I'd love to know what
he turns into fifty years from now, when you and
I have long left this mortal coil to both.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Of the if the days, let him grow up.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Well, thanks so much, Dan, thanks Harvey, and all of
you should know that this book, any of my books,
are only possible because of Harvey, because my mom, because
of my dad, because of very kind people who invest
in other people out of love, out of kindness. This
is going to sound like flattery, but that's all true.
(40:24):
And Harvey is a one of a kind person, not
just a lawyer, but a human being.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And I will endorse that sentiment with full throat, With
full throat, thanks Harvey. We'll talk soon. Solomon, thank you
as well. We've gone a little late, but here comes
the eleven o'clock news on Nightside.
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