July 28, 2025 • 38 mins
It's been three months since 5-year-old Lens Arthur Joseph was struck and killed by a school bus as he attempted to cross the street in Hyde Park. Members of the Joseph Family have filed a lawsuit against the bus company and the bus driver. The Joseph Family lawyer, Matt Fogelman, joined Dan with the details of this case.
You can hear NightSide with Dan Rea, Live! Weeknights From 8PM-12AM on WBZ - Boston's News Radio.
You can hear NightSide with Dan Rea, Live! Weeknights From 8PM-12AM on WBZ - Boston's News Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBST Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thanks very much, Dan. Delighted to be joined by Attorney
Matt Fogelman. Matt Fogelman is the attorney for the family
of Len's Arthur Joseph, a little boy who was a
head was attending what's what was called the up Academy
in Dorchester. He was coming home on his City Boston
(00:26):
school bus three months ago tonight, this after would have
been this afternoon, April twenty eighth. The bus driver apparently
dropped him off the wrong location. There's a little bit
of backstory to the bus driver. We will get into it,
Attorney Fogelman. And when the little boy went across the street, inexplicably,
(00:49):
he was run over by the bus that had just
dropped him off. It is a horrific story. There has
been little information. One of the Globe columnists to a
story month ago, saying why no information? We have done
this story a couple of times. We're delighted to be
joined by turning Matt Fogelman tonight, who represents the family. Matt,
(01:10):
sorry to meet you under these circumstances, but thank you
very much for the work you're doing on behalf of
the Lens a little the little boy's little boy, Lens
Joseph his family.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, thank you for having me, Dan, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You very welcome your filed lawsuit in a lawsuit against
trans Dev Services. Uh, it is actually that is a
French company, but it has a North American subsidiary. What
is the name of the North American subsidiary is it?
Is it trans Dev America or something?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, they actually have a couple of company names here
in the US. They have a large US presence, but yes,
essentially referred to as trans Dev And yeah, they are
the they are the bus company.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So how many other if you know, and you may not, again,
I don't script these questions. How many other public school
systems around the country does does this company have a
contract with?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. We're still early
in the case and we're finding out a lot more
as we go. But they are they are a global
transportation company. They have operations in twenty countries I believe,
including the US. They have a significant role in providing
school transportation services. And I believe that they have a
(02:35):
presence in like forty five states or something. So this Yeah,
and they only they don't only do buses, by the way,
they also do rail some rail transport.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So you're going you were going up on behalf of
this family against literally a transnational corporation.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
There they are transnational corporation, a billion with a B
dollar company.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yes, sir, look, this case is horrifying.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Why don't you just set it up for us? Probably
a little bit better than I can, because you know
this case so well.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
This little guy is five years old, he's on a
school bus. The bus driver will go ahead. The bus
driver has hits a couple of cars.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That day, so he's not having a great day as
a bus driver, and then disaster strikes.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Set it up for us, if you would, counselor.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
So the bus driver was actually a substitute bus driver.
He was not the regular driver on that route, and
he I don't know what was going on with him
that day, but something something was going on. He was
reported to have been speeding. He hit certainly one and
I think two cars on the way before he struck lens.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And never stopped, never stopped on the car, or never
reported to his company as he was supposed to.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Exactly so the trends dev policies require that you stop
and not leave the scene. You call your supervisor, and
you can't leave the scene until the supervisor authorizes you
to leave. Our information is that he never called. He
just kept going and then he got himself onto the
wrong route somehow inexplicably and dropped Lens and his eleven
(04:39):
year old cousin. First cousins are very close. Dropped them off.
Supposed to drop them off right in front of the house,
so picture bus driver could picture. The passenger door opens,
the kids get out, and they're basically in their front
lawn and they just go into the house. Right, That's
what's supposed to happen, no cross mystery, just right in
front of the house. But instead he dropped him off
(04:59):
kind of diagonal across the street, and so the kids
had to cross the street to get to the house.
I'm going to presume ever, didn't realize that.
Speaker 6 (05:12):
In other words, the driver probably.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Thought he was dropping them off at the right house.
I don't know that for a fact. I'm just making
some logical assumptions. But but he but he didn't, and
so the boys, you know, the boy started to across
the street and the bus went and struck him and
ran him.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Over God in front of his eleven year old cousin,
and were there right in front of her?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And were there a couple of adults of family members
who are as I understand that and I could be
wrong here waiting for the for the two children across
the street, they witnessed it as.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Well, not exactly they were. There were a couple of
adults that were in the house, you know, sort of
by the like in the front window, like, you know,
waiting because again they brought the bus dropping the kids off.
They get off the bus, did the adults see them,
and everything's fine? So the adults were in the house
waiting for the kids to come home as usual, and
(06:11):
the kids didn't come home. And then the adults heard
a commotion outside because it was pretty close to the house,
and so they went outside, and you know, when they
went outside, I think realized pretty quickly that something had
gone very very wrong. And the eleven year old is
there screaming hysterically, and yeah, the boy was the boy
(06:32):
wasn't wasn't there?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And so you have sued on behalf of the family.
Speaker 7 (06:40):
That's right, that's right, for this horrific loss. How frustrating
is it? There's been no rest, there's been no statement
that I know of, other than you know, we're sorry
and we're going to have an investigation. As I've said before,
this is not the Kennedy assassination of nineteen sixty three,
(07:00):
where this is a fairly sad, horrific story, but there's
not a lot of questions about what happened, and well,
who was driving the bus at the time. How perplexed
are you that we don't have any real official conclusion
of guidance at this point.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I'm not going to disagree with anything you said. It
is frustrating. I don't really know what else to say
about it. I mean, my understanding is that the criminal
investigation is ongoing and proceeding. We certainly have not been
told that charges won't be forthcoming. So you know, we're
(07:44):
we're being patient, The family is being patient, and you know,
we letting the process play out. I guess that's that's
all they can really do. My role for the family
is on the civil side. You know, maybe your listeners
may know there's a criminal criminal court and civil court.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
Those are different.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You know, criminal court, people can get arrested, they can
get put in jail, probation, all kinds of things, right
that that have to do with with criminal penalties on
the civil side. You know, no one goes to jail
on the civil side. It's it's usually a monetary you know,
monetary compensation.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So we're involved with that and the other thing that
we're very involved in. You know, we'd like to get
some legislation pass. And I'm very committed to this as
well as the lawyers I'm working with, and the family
is very committed as well. Yeah, and we've already started
meeting with some local state legislators because I think there's
some improvements that could be made in the bus safety
industry technology wise, and you know that that's something that
(08:42):
sometimes out of out of something horrible and unimaginable, a
little bit of good can come out of it. And
so if if we and the family can work legislatively
and and make some improvements, you know, hopefully another family
wouldn't have to ever go through this.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Okay, So let's do this.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
That's what we're really you know, that's where we're really
committed to you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
When we come back, I want to talk about what
those improvements are and whether or not, uh that bus
was not equipped with the sort of mechanisms which could
have prevented this. I mean every school bus that I've
ever passed or are approached, I should say that stop
(09:28):
sign comes out and you don't dare pass the school bus,
because if you pass the school bus, that is that
is disrespectful to the to the children, it's disrespectful to
your neighbors and your friends. I just want to find
out what was in place. If there was nothing in place.
I got questions about why, uh, and if if the
(09:51):
if the safety procedures were in place, but we're not utilized.
I got the I got questions why as well. We'll
be back. My guest is a two already, Matt Fogelman.
He represents the family of the Little Hyde Park kindergartener
Lenz Joseph, who was struck and killed on April twenty
eighth by the school bus that was supposed to deliver
(10:14):
him safely home and actually didn't deliver him safely home,
dropped him off diagonally across the street from where he
was supposed to be dropped off, and shortly thereafter ran
him over and killed him. We'll be back on night
side the numbers and again this is a. This is
a subject that I think is important to all of
us because, as I've said before, if this were to
(10:37):
have happened in one of our more affluent suburbs, and
I always mentioned Whalen, Weston, Winchester, Wellesley, the affluent suburbs.
Do you think would go for three months without knowing
what happened to a five year old who was killed
by the very bus that he had just gotten off.
I don't think so. Feel free to join us at
six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty was six
(10:57):
one seven nine three one ten thirty.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Coming right back on nights Side.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
My guess is Attorney Matt Fogelman.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He represents the family of Lens Arthur Joseph, the little
five year old boy kindergarten student at the UP Academy
who was struck and killed run over by the very
school bus that had just dropped him off. You were
talking about legislation, Matt. Obviously it's too late for len
(11:30):
Lenz Joseph. But what did this bus not have that
it should have had?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
In your opinion?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, thanks for bringing it back to that, and I'll
have to say we don't know everything yet, but we're
very early in this process, so we are still gathering information.
We're going to enter the discovery phase of the civil
case where we'll get all kinds of documents from trans depth.
So we're really at the infancy of this process, Dan.
But you know the I will tell you this. I
(12:02):
know that the bus does have cameras. They they have
external and internal cameras, they have GPS, but I don't
believe that they have the motion sensors in the front.
So when buses reverse and when vans reversed, you know,
you'll hear the beep, beep beep. But a lot of
(12:22):
modern day cars, you know, a lot of cars that
we drive, they have the motion sensors in the front
where if something happens in the front, you'll you'll hear
the beep beep noise as well. I do not believe
that the buses are equipped with that technology, and I
think that you know, they should be. So there's there's
(12:44):
some that's one technological idea that you know, could be implemented.
There's also been some discussion about having bus monitors on buses.
Some states have passed laws requiring that mass choose it
has not yet. That's just an idea. You know, there's
(13:04):
I know that there's some arguments with respect to cost,
but you know that's something that we're going to look
into as well. And that way, you have another adult
on the bus. For example, if the bus driver, like
in this case, you know, did something like like hit
that park car for example, and didn't stop, now you
have a monitor who can call that in, so you know, uh,
(13:27):
and possibly even help kids across the street if a
kid needs to cross the street, you know, a monitor
could help with that potentially. So I don't you know,
I'm not I don't want to. Don't hold me to
these ideas. These are just these are just it just
seems to be.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
That it's it seems to be how long have we
have kids been driving on riding on school buses. They've
been riding on school buses for generations and at this point,
and you would think a big transnational company like trans
Dev UH would have would be would have the latest
and the greatest devices. We actually have a question and
(14:05):
one of our folks who called in had a specific
question for you. So since the person took the advantage
of calling the talkback feature, I want you to listen
to this question and you can respond to what we
also have callers I want to get to as well.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
What you play that Rob.
Speaker 8 (14:24):
Dan, Can you ask your guests if the Boston Police
Department vehicula homicide unit has investigated this and why haven't
they reported anything?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
All right, great, great question.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Do you know if, as anyone from the Boston Homicide
Department said to you, hey, well we are looking at this.
I mean, it seemed to me that's at a minimum
it's forhiculo homicide.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I wish I knew the intricacies of the investigative process.
I don't. I know, typically when crimes are investigated, the
police are involved and then District Attorney's Office is involved,
and I believe that is what's going on here. So
I think there's you know, a partnership between BPD and
the DA's office as far as what specific unit, though,
(15:13):
I don't really have a ton of visibility into that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
All right, Well, they it's certainly it's it's a it's
a vehiculo homicide, and at a minimum, at a minimum,
not only should they be looking at it, but I
think there must be some sort of a regulatory group
within Boston that would regulate buses. Let's get to some
phone calls for you as well. Let me go first
to Dot in Medford. Dot you first this hour on
(15:39):
the phone, at least with with with my guest, attorney
Matthew Matt Fogelman.
Speaker 9 (15:45):
Go ahead, Dot, Well, Hi Dann and Attorney Fogman. I
I've been watching this case. I cannot understand why the
driver wasn't arrested for involuntary at least manslaughter. I mean,
it wasn't the bus that did it, it was the driver.
(16:06):
The driver had a couple. Whoever hired this guy? Were
they vetted? Do they vet their people properly?
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Well?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You raise raise a lot of great questions. I don't
know all the answers, ma'am.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I wish I did you know.
Speaker 9 (16:24):
I used to drive the school bus years ago, and
I'll tell you we had to be checked and rechecked.
I mean we had to be top drivers and it was.
And the our company was run by somebody in Lexington,
not somebody in France. And I don't understand why these
(16:48):
jobs put out to other countries. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, they do have headquarters. They have headquarters in Illinois.
They have US headquarters in Illinois. But yes, it's owned
by a French company. But yeah, I you know, I
hopefully we're going to get a lot of answers in
the civil case to the questions that you're talking about.
I do know that it had been reported in the
Boston Globe that the driver was taken off the road
(17:14):
a couple of weeks or the fatality.
Speaker 9 (17:17):
He should have been arrested.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, but he had arrested.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
My god, I I just had to be a favor.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Let be the councilor complete his answer. I hear your emotion,
so go.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Ahead, yeah, no, just we we we've learned that the
driver had been taken off the road a couple of
weeks before the fatality for some retraining. I don't know
what that entailed, but that was reported. Additionally, it's been
reported that there was a certification that he lacked. He
had a license, he had a valid license, but there
(17:53):
was some one of the certifications he was supposed to
have he did not have. So that's something that we're
going to be looking into as well, is why didn't
he have that and why did the bus company allow
him to be on the road until he updated that
certification exactly exactly.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
Well, good luck with it. Thanks just too sad, thank
your horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Thanks for the question, Strot you you would be a
good investigator in this case.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
We'll talk soon, thanks Bach. Take quick break. We've got
some other phone calls here, Matt.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Let's let's stick with a couple more calls and then
I will let you let you get ready for whatever
you've got to do tomorrow. Again, appreciate you taking the
time on a Monday night. As are practicing and active attorney.
Your offices are in Newton right if people want to
get in touch with.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
You on this case, we are bathed in Newton, Yes,
Fogman Law or Fogleman Law Firm, and you can find
us online.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
If anyone has information, and sometimes there are people who
do have information, feel free to pass that information along.
We'll take a very quick break here for news and
be back with more calls from my guest, turning Matt Fogelman,
who represents the family of the five year old who
was killed run over by the very bus that had
dropped him off three months ago to the day, right
(19:15):
across the street from his home in Hyde Park.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b
Z Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
My guess is Matt Fogelman.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
He's the attorney for Lens Joseph's family, the little.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Five year old boy in Boston.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And again it's appalling to me the three months, three months.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
After this horrific event.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Clearly I think it was an accident, but I want
to characterize it as an event that took the life
of this five year old kindergarten student that we still
know very little about the prosecution of the case. Will
anyone be charged any any investigation? Now, again, the civil suit,
as Attorney Fogelman indicates, is not the criminal suit, and
(20:09):
he will of course be able to conduct his depositions.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Of everybody involved.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But it would be helpful, it would be helpful if
the family could get some answers, and if the public
at large should get some answer. Let's go next up
to Paul and need him. Paul, you're with attorney Matt Fogelman,
who represents the family of five year old Lens Joseph.
Speaker 6 (20:34):
Go right ahead, Paul, believing mister, for you to prove
a civil case, I think you're going to need some
proof of some negligence here, aren't you. And what I'm
going to ask you is, do you have the initial
officer's report, the first responding officer? Did you get his
report yet? Do you have any pictures or any pavement measurements?
(20:57):
I would think they are going to be very crucial
in your best predation in your case.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yes, thank you for that. I guess I can't get
into too much detail about what we have yet. But
but you're right about the negligence though, and so that's
where you know in a civil case, you're right. So
we look at the driver's actions, but we also look
at the bus companies actions. You know, what were their
(21:26):
policies and procedures. And in this case like this, if
there's negligence on behalf of the employee, that is attributable
to the employer, if that makes sense, So the employer
is essentially responsible for the conduct of their employee.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, the agent of the employer respond yet superior, I
think is what we learned in law school.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Matt, right, that's right, that's right in front of my business.
I won't be offended. But are there reports on file
or are you not? A word of.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yes, but they also there, their investigation is under is
still in process, so we're limited after three.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Month after three months. That's why we're doing it tonight,
Paul with you.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
Well, good luck in yourtion.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I mean I think it's I think it's unacceptable. Do
you think that if there was a bus accident like this,
and by the way, I think it's almost you know,
the result speaks for itself. Rezips a lowkward and the
little boy got off the bus and he was run
over by the bus.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
It could have been we should have been determined very
that's the point I'm trying to make, Paul, We're on
the same page here.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
Absolutely could have been determined within a week. I agree
with you.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, Okay, Well look, Paul, I appreciate your your call,
and I think again more pop should be outraged by
this because seriously, I mean, this is a kid in
the city of Boston. He had just as much the
right of any any other child to expect that he
would be transported safely home. My understanding is that weather
(23:16):
was not a factor that day. I don't think there's
any suggestion that the bus malfunctioned, that there was that
somehow the break you know, let go and the bus
rolled over the child, and there's nothing.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I just think that it's horrific that three months later
there's not more information.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Paul, thank you so much. Thanks, let's keep rowling here.
Going to go to Daniel in Worcester, Daniel Oath attorney
Matt Fogelman talking about the horrific accident that took accident
or I'm going to say event that took the life
of Lens Joseph.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
I heard you talk about it when it happened, and
this is a situation that know, it is horrible and
very you know, very sad and aspersived by the lady
called out there, you know, the passion in which she spoke.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
But attorney, I want to salute you because it's sometimes
we can be inclined to find a quick solution, you know,
or to blame. But my position is that you know,
a bus like there's people under estimate how much how
difficult it is for one man to drive a bus
(24:32):
full of little children walking left and right. Make sure
that you know, people sprinting on the streets don't run
into him. So I think the company should have at least,
in my thinking, at least three people on that bus.
One to call the bus stops so the backyard doesn't pass,
two to check the children leaving and actually hold them,
(24:56):
make sure they're off the street, because the five year
olds can if you jump in the street in a moment.
So you know, it's a very sad and very type situation.
And you know, and you know the company, if it
tried to put all the work on just one man
to handle everything on the bus, they are responsible.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, Daniel, I think that's that is a legitimate theory.
At the same time, I will remind you that there
are thousands, tens of thousands of bus drivers across this
country every day who pick up and deliver children to
school safely, and who pick up and deliver the children
home safely. Something horrific went wrong here, and it would
(25:40):
have been nice if there were three people adults on
the bus monitor. Matthew has talked about that. But there
has to be an accounting for the death of this
child under the circumstances. How do we how do we
account for the fact that this driver sideswiped another car
or two just a few minutes before what this horrific accident,
(26:05):
and yet.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
He didn't report it. He didn't stop. He just kept going.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
I didn't stop, you know. For that he should be punished.
But you know, he should be punished for that, and
he should give a pun for that. But I say,
maybe he was overloaded, especially it was a regular Daniel.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You come up with a million excuses. Maybe he had
ingested something. I don't know, Maybe he had a medical issue.
This is the sort of stuff that you come out.
But they should have been able to take whatever toxology
tests were necessary that day. Do you know, Matthew, if
they tested this guy for alcohol, drugs.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
And all that I understanding. My understanding is that the
tox was negative.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
The toxic toxologies were negative. Okay, fine, correct, correct?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Correct? Now whether you know did he have a some
other medical did he have a mental break?
Speaker 4 (26:57):
I don't know which absolutely much more toficult to ascertain, Daniel.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You raise good points, as I say, I wish that
every school bus in the land had three or four
adults on it, But.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
You know, human nineteen but so many things at the
same time.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I know, I.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Understand that, But I'm saying there are a lot of
buses around the country that do function successfully day after day,
week after week, year after year, without an incident of
this nature.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
That's all I mean the bus.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But you have to follow policy and procedure. Right, That's
where we get into trouble, Dan, is when when policies
and procedures are not being followed. Absolutely, you know, not
only in this case but in general in other cases
I'm involved, and that's when you that's when you can
get into some serious problems. Say the procedures, but those
have to be followed and they have to be enforced.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, the policies and procedures should have been he should
have reported the accident. He should have stopped assumed that.
They should have reported it. They should have been a
supervisor who showed up. They should have put a note
at least on the automobiles that would automobile or automobiles
that would damage.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Here. You come out and you see your cars beon sideswipe.
It's like, well, where's the note?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
You know you you can't expect to find that person,
but there should be a note that should say unfortunately, uh,
my vehicle hits your view.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
I don't know, you know, it's just it's where your
study is.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
You should have stopped.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Yeah, Okay, thank you, Dan, You appreciate your call. Thank
you very much.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I promised that I would let you go. So I'm
going to let you go, but we're going to continue
the conversation here. If anyone again has information about the driver,
about the incident UH and wants to contact your office,
give us that website one more time.
Speaker 6 (28:52):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Fogelman Law Firm dot com f O G E.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
L M A N.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Law Firm dot com based in Newton. Thank you so
much for having me.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Please keep us in mind on this as this story develops,
because the justice has to be done for the Lens
Joseph family and for Lens Joseph himself.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Thanks Matt.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We are very we are very committed to that and
we will not rest.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I have no doubt of that. Attorney Matt Fogelman. Thanks
Matt for those of the lines, stay here. I want
to talk about this, okay, and it's an important.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Issue to me.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I have no relations with the family or Matt Fogelman.
It just cries out as not only an injustice, but
in justice that took the life of a five year
old child. And this child's life is just as important
as any child that would have been killed in any
other community in Massachusetts. Simple as that six one, seven, two, five,
(29:54):
four ten thirty six, one seven, nine three, one, ten thirty.
I got some open lines. I want to talk about
this until eleven. I'm not sure what we're going to
do after eleven tonight, but we'll figure it out.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Coming back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
All right, we're talking about the death.
Speaker 10 (30:16):
If you want to call it an accident, that's fine,
an event, an inexplicable event that took the life of
a five year old kindergarten student in Boston three months
ago tonight, and for which there is very little scant
information available from anyone from the Mayor's office, the District
(30:36):
Attorney's office, the Boston Police Department right on down.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And the point that bothers me and it bothers I
know at least one columnist from the Boston Globe is
pretty simple. And that is why the lack of the
dearth of information about the death of this little boy.
For those of you who don't know the story, and
I can only assume most of you don't know the story,
(31:01):
this little boy got off his bus and within a
matter of seconds, as he was attempting to cross the street.
Never should have been in that position tempting across the street.
The bus were in them over six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one
ten thirty.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
If this story does not outrage you, I don't know
what will. Let me go to.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Sandy in Peabody. Sandy, you were next on I I
appreciate you calling in Hi. Uh.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (31:32):
When my kids were little, when they got off the bus,
there had to be an adult at the bus stop
to put the hands on or that child would not
be allowed off the bus and they would be returned
to the school for the parent to come pick them up.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Well, that's it. That's that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
In this case, what had happened was in this particular case,
that the bus driver was posed to pull up in
front of the family home and you know, the child
gets off. The two children, who was an eleven year
old cousin and the five year old, they get off
the bus, uh, and they literally walk two steps across
(32:14):
the sidewalk and they're walking, you know, on their onto
their front porch or onto their front steps, or they're
on the on the front front of their their home.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Here the bus driver somehow didn't know where to go.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
He was diagonally across the street, and instead of going
around the block and doing what he had to do
to get the children to a safe spot, he chose
to drop them off diagonally across the street, which meant
the kids had to cross the street. It wasn't another
car that hit the child, it was the bus that
the child had just gotten off.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
That's just the effect that it's taken so long.
Speaker 11 (32:57):
It's not just by the police department for not investigating
that guy should have. Because there was an accident and
a death involved, somebody got hurt, the person should have
been at least brought into questioning.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
They weren't, but no charges have been filed. And it
seems to me pretty simple when you figure out what
happened here that according to the lawyer for the family,
the bus dropped them off at the wrong location, and
it's an eleven year old and a five year old, And.
Speaker 12 (33:35):
Then that's a problem too. You need to know your route.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Well, yeah, because that's the start of the problem.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
And earlier in the day or just a few minutes
before that, this bus apparently sideswiped one or two vehicles
in nearby Mattapan.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I mean it was.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
It was a comedy of errors, but a comedy that
ended in the tragic death, the loss of a five
year old life. And I don't get the sense of
outrage from that I would expect from my audience. Now.
I know we've talked about it a couple of times,
but I want this story to be known. I really
(34:14):
want to make sure that that this child, that that
that that.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
That this family somehow.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Realizes that their son, their their son or their grandson
is not not forgotten.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
That's that's.
Speaker 12 (34:36):
Should have been pulled off the road in that accident.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I hope he stopped, and.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Well, I guess he might. He did stop.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, once he drove, drove over the kid and accarently
he did not have the proper licensure and he was
a relief of his duty.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
He never should have been driving. Sandy, I appreciate your
your empathy and your concern with this. You live in Peebety.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I would have liked to heard from some of the
people from as Well.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Winchester.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
I work in PbD.
Speaker 11 (35:08):
I live in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
All right, well that's okay, thanks, Thanks Andy, I appreciate
your calling. Let me get one more in here before
we got to go to the eleven o'clock news break.
It is Chris Donald Cape call it Chris, you are
next one night saga right here, Chris Hi Dan.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
I haven't really followed this case that closely, but it
is simply scandalous that if the bus driver had hit one,
if not two cars before this incident happened, and then
the tragic tragedy that occurred after that, where's the citation
(35:47):
for hit and run leaving the scene after property damage
number one or two? If there are two cars and three,
why he wasn't cited. My guess is that the either
this guy is connected the bus driver or something else.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, I don't know that many you know, school bus
drivers are connected in that sense. I mean, look, uh,
there have been some very famous and infamous people who
have been involved in automobile accidents which resulted in the
death of an individual, and even you.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Know the Ted Kennedy chap equtic h.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
He stood trial for that, but there was again, there
was there was a woman's life loss there. I don't
know that we'll ever know that story for sure, but
we'll leave that one go.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Well, my point is that I guess indisputably he hit
one or two cars.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Was the driver of the bus that ran over the kids?
The kid gets off the bus and the moment the.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Kids When you think about his foot hits the pavement,
he probably has a matter of three or four or
five seconds at the.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Most to live.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Correct, But where are the citations the tickets for the
first two events? And my guess is you know under
the citation law you in the anti fixed statute, you
must give a citation to the operator within three days.
(37:29):
Is this a problem for the Boston PD that they
didn't ticket him for those first two and they also
may not have ticketed him, let alone arrest him for
that poor tragic death.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I point, there's no, I don't know that you have
to give the ticket. You you may be correct on that,
but I think that's the least of his worries right now.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Well, those are my points that those are points A.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
Good points, Chris, I appreciate whereabouts in the cape? Are you.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
The very end?
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Well the beginning?
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Okay, that's great, thanks, Chris.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I appreciate you calling a great Now, all right, we
are wrapped on that topic. I wish we had had
a greater volume of calls. I don't know what I'm
going to do in the next hour. I'm thinking of
going open lines. We'll talk right after the eleven o'clock
news
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBST Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thanks very much, Dan. Delighted to be joined by Attorney
Matt Fogelman. Matt Fogelman is the attorney for the family
of Len's Arthur Joseph, a little boy who was a
head was attending what's what was called the up Academy
in Dorchester. He was coming home on his City Boston
(00:26):
school bus three months ago tonight, this after would have
been this afternoon, April twenty eighth. The bus driver apparently
dropped him off the wrong location. There's a little bit
of backstory to the bus driver. We will get into it,
Attorney Fogelman. And when the little boy went across the street, inexplicably,
(00:49):
he was run over by the bus that had just
dropped him off. It is a horrific story. There has
been little information. One of the Globe columnists to a
story month ago, saying why no information? We have done
this story a couple of times. We're delighted to be
joined by turning Matt Fogelman tonight, who represents the family. Matt,
(01:10):
sorry to meet you under these circumstances, but thank you
very much for the work you're doing on behalf of
the Lens a little the little boy's little boy, Lens
Joseph his family.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, thank you for having me, Dan, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You very welcome your filed lawsuit in a lawsuit against
trans Dev Services. Uh, it is actually that is a
French company, but it has a North American subsidiary. What
is the name of the North American subsidiary is it?
Is it trans Dev America or something?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, they actually have a couple of company names here
in the US. They have a large US presence, but yes,
essentially referred to as trans Dev And yeah, they are
the they are the bus company.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So how many other if you know, and you may not, again,
I don't script these questions. How many other public school
systems around the country does does this company have a
contract with?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. We're still early
in the case and we're finding out a lot more
as we go. But they are they are a global
transportation company. They have operations in twenty countries I believe,
including the US. They have a significant role in providing
school transportation services. And I believe that they have a
(02:35):
presence in like forty five states or something. So this Yeah,
and they only they don't only do buses, by the way,
they also do rail some rail transport.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So you're going you were going up on behalf of
this family against literally a transnational corporation.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
There they are transnational corporation, a billion with a B
dollar company.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yes, sir, look, this case is horrifying.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Why don't you just set it up for us? Probably
a little bit better than I can, because you know
this case so well.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
This little guy is five years old, he's on a
school bus. The bus driver will go ahead. The bus
driver has hits a couple of cars.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That day, so he's not having a great day as
a bus driver, and then disaster strikes.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Set it up for us, if you would, counselor.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
So the bus driver was actually a substitute bus driver.
He was not the regular driver on that route, and
he I don't know what was going on with him
that day, but something something was going on. He was
reported to have been speeding. He hit certainly one and
I think two cars on the way before he struck lens.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And never stopped, never stopped on the car, or never
reported to his company as he was supposed to.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Exactly so the trends dev policies require that you stop
and not leave the scene. You call your supervisor, and
you can't leave the scene until the supervisor authorizes you
to leave. Our information is that he never called. He
just kept going and then he got himself onto the
wrong route somehow inexplicably and dropped Lens and his eleven
(04:39):
year old cousin. First cousins are very close. Dropped them off.
Supposed to drop them off right in front of the house,
so picture bus driver could picture. The passenger door opens,
the kids get out, and they're basically in their front
lawn and they just go into the house. Right, That's
what's supposed to happen, no cross mystery, just right in
front of the house. But instead he dropped him off
(04:59):
kind of diagonal across the street, and so the kids
had to cross the street to get to the house.
I'm going to presume ever, didn't realize that.
Speaker 6 (05:12):
In other words, the driver probably.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Thought he was dropping them off at the right house.
I don't know that for a fact. I'm just making
some logical assumptions. But but he but he didn't, and
so the boys, you know, the boy started to across
the street and the bus went and struck him and
ran him.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Over God in front of his eleven year old cousin,
and were there right in front of her?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And were there a couple of adults of family members
who are as I understand that and I could be
wrong here waiting for the for the two children across
the street, they witnessed it as.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Well, not exactly they were. There were a couple of
adults that were in the house, you know, sort of
by the like in the front window, like, you know,
waiting because again they brought the bus dropping the kids off.
They get off the bus, did the adults see them,
and everything's fine? So the adults were in the house
waiting for the kids to come home as usual, and
(06:11):
the kids didn't come home. And then the adults heard
a commotion outside because it was pretty close to the house,
and so they went outside, and you know, when they
went outside, I think realized pretty quickly that something had
gone very very wrong. And the eleven year old is
there screaming hysterically, and yeah, the boy was the boy
(06:32):
wasn't wasn't there?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And so you have sued on behalf of the family.
Speaker 7 (06:40):
That's right, that's right, for this horrific loss. How frustrating
is it? There's been no rest, there's been no statement
that I know of, other than you know, we're sorry
and we're going to have an investigation. As I've said before,
this is not the Kennedy assassination of nineteen sixty three,
(07:00):
where this is a fairly sad, horrific story, but there's
not a lot of questions about what happened, and well,
who was driving the bus at the time. How perplexed
are you that we don't have any real official conclusion
of guidance at this point.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I'm not going to disagree with anything you said. It
is frustrating. I don't really know what else to say
about it. I mean, my understanding is that the criminal
investigation is ongoing and proceeding. We certainly have not been
told that charges won't be forthcoming. So you know, we're
(07:44):
we're being patient, The family is being patient, and you know,
we letting the process play out. I guess that's that's
all they can really do. My role for the family
is on the civil side. You know, maybe your listeners
may know there's a criminal criminal court and civil court.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
Those are different.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You know, criminal court, people can get arrested, they can
get put in jail, probation, all kinds of things, right
that that have to do with with criminal penalties on
the civil side. You know, no one goes to jail
on the civil side. It's it's usually a monetary you know,
monetary compensation.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So we're involved with that and the other thing that
we're very involved in. You know, we'd like to get
some legislation pass. And I'm very committed to this as
well as the lawyers I'm working with, and the family
is very committed as well. Yeah, and we've already started
meeting with some local state legislators because I think there's
some improvements that could be made in the bus safety
industry technology wise, and you know that that's something that
(08:42):
sometimes out of out of something horrible and unimaginable, a
little bit of good can come out of it. And
so if if we and the family can work legislatively
and and make some improvements, you know, hopefully another family
wouldn't have to ever go through this.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Okay, So let's do this.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
That's what we're really you know, that's where we're really
committed to you.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
When we come back, I want to talk about what
those improvements are and whether or not, uh that bus
was not equipped with the sort of mechanisms which could
have prevented this. I mean every school bus that I've
ever passed or are approached, I should say that stop
(09:28):
sign comes out and you don't dare pass the school bus,
because if you pass the school bus, that is that
is disrespectful to the to the children, it's disrespectful to
your neighbors and your friends. I just want to find
out what was in place. If there was nothing in place.
I got questions about why, uh, and if if the
(09:51):
if the safety procedures were in place, but we're not utilized.
I got the I got questions why as well. We'll
be back. My guest is a two already, Matt Fogelman.
He represents the family of the Little Hyde Park kindergartener
Lenz Joseph, who was struck and killed on April twenty
eighth by the school bus that was supposed to deliver
(10:14):
him safely home and actually didn't deliver him safely home,
dropped him off diagonally across the street from where he
was supposed to be dropped off, and shortly thereafter ran
him over and killed him. We'll be back on night
side the numbers and again this is a. This is
a subject that I think is important to all of
us because, as I've said before, if this were to
(10:37):
have happened in one of our more affluent suburbs, and
I always mentioned Whalen, Weston, Winchester, Wellesley, the affluent suburbs.
Do you think would go for three months without knowing
what happened to a five year old who was killed
by the very bus that he had just gotten off.
I don't think so. Feel free to join us at
six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty was six
(10:57):
one seven nine three one ten thirty.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Coming right back on nights Side.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
My guess is Attorney Matt Fogelman.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
He represents the family of Lens Arthur Joseph, the little
five year old boy kindergarten student at the UP Academy
who was struck and killed run over by the very
school bus that had just dropped him off. You were
talking about legislation, Matt. Obviously it's too late for len
(11:30):
Lenz Joseph. But what did this bus not have that
it should have had?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
In your opinion?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, thanks for bringing it back to that, and I'll
have to say we don't know everything yet, but we're
very early in this process, so we are still gathering information.
We're going to enter the discovery phase of the civil
case where we'll get all kinds of documents from trans depth.
So we're really at the infancy of this process, Dan.
But you know the I will tell you this. I
(12:02):
know that the bus does have cameras. They they have
external and internal cameras, they have GPS, but I don't
believe that they have the motion sensors in the front.
So when buses reverse and when vans reversed, you know,
you'll hear the beep, beep beep. But a lot of
(12:22):
modern day cars, you know, a lot of cars that
we drive, they have the motion sensors in the front
where if something happens in the front, you'll you'll hear
the beep beep noise as well. I do not believe
that the buses are equipped with that technology, and I
think that you know, they should be. So there's there's
(12:44):
some that's one technological idea that you know, could be implemented.
There's also been some discussion about having bus monitors on buses.
Some states have passed laws requiring that mass choose it
has not yet. That's just an idea. You know, there's
(13:04):
I know that there's some arguments with respect to cost,
but you know that's something that we're going to look
into as well. And that way, you have another adult
on the bus. For example, if the bus driver, like
in this case, you know, did something like like hit
that park car for example, and didn't stop, now you
have a monitor who can call that in, so you know, uh,
(13:27):
and possibly even help kids across the street if a
kid needs to cross the street, you know, a monitor
could help with that potentially. So I don't you know,
I'm not I don't want to. Don't hold me to
these ideas. These are just these are just it just
seems to be.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
That it's it seems to be how long have we
have kids been driving on riding on school buses. They've
been riding on school buses for generations and at this point,
and you would think a big transnational company like trans
Dev UH would have would be would have the latest
and the greatest devices. We actually have a question and
(14:05):
one of our folks who called in had a specific
question for you. So since the person took the advantage
of calling the talkback feature, I want you to listen
to this question and you can respond to what we
also have callers I want to get to as well.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
What you play that Rob.
Speaker 8 (14:24):
Dan, Can you ask your guests if the Boston Police
Department vehicula homicide unit has investigated this and why haven't
they reported anything?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
All right, great, great question.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Do you know if, as anyone from the Boston Homicide
Department said to you, hey, well we are looking at this.
I mean, it seemed to me that's at a minimum
it's forhiculo homicide.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I wish I knew the intricacies of the investigative process.
I don't. I know, typically when crimes are investigated, the
police are involved and then District Attorney's Office is involved,
and I believe that is what's going on here. So
I think there's you know, a partnership between BPD and
the DA's office as far as what specific unit, though,
(15:13):
I don't really have a ton of visibility into that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
All right, Well, they it's certainly it's it's a it's
a vehiculo homicide, and at a minimum, at a minimum,
not only should they be looking at it, but I
think there must be some sort of a regulatory group
within Boston that would regulate buses. Let's get to some
phone calls for you as well. Let me go first
to Dot in Medford. Dot you first this hour on
(15:39):
the phone, at least with with with my guest, attorney
Matthew Matt Fogelman.
Speaker 9 (15:45):
Go ahead, Dot, Well, Hi Dann and Attorney Fogman. I
I've been watching this case. I cannot understand why the
driver wasn't arrested for involuntary at least manslaughter. I mean,
it wasn't the bus that did it, it was the driver.
(16:06):
The driver had a couple. Whoever hired this guy? Were
they vetted? Do they vet their people properly?
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Well?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You raise raise a lot of great questions. I don't
know all the answers, ma'am.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I wish I did you know.
Speaker 9 (16:24):
I used to drive the school bus years ago, and
I'll tell you we had to be checked and rechecked.
I mean we had to be top drivers and it was.
And the our company was run by somebody in Lexington,
not somebody in France. And I don't understand why these
(16:48):
jobs put out to other countries. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, they do have headquarters. They have headquarters in Illinois.
They have US headquarters in Illinois. But yes, it's owned
by a French company. But yeah, I you know, I
hopefully we're going to get a lot of answers in
the civil case to the questions that you're talking about.
I do know that it had been reported in the
Boston Globe that the driver was taken off the road
(17:14):
a couple of weeks or the fatality.
Speaker 9 (17:17):
He should have been arrested.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, but he had arrested.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
My god, I I just had to be a favor.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Let be the councilor complete his answer. I hear your emotion,
so go.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Ahead, yeah, no, just we we we've learned that the
driver had been taken off the road a couple of
weeks before the fatality for some retraining. I don't know
what that entailed, but that was reported. Additionally, it's been
reported that there was a certification that he lacked. He
had a license, he had a valid license, but there
(17:53):
was some one of the certifications he was supposed to
have he did not have. So that's something that we're
going to be looking into as well, is why didn't
he have that and why did the bus company allow
him to be on the road until he updated that
certification exactly exactly.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
Well, good luck with it. Thanks just too sad, thank
your horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Thanks for the question, Strot you you would be a
good investigator in this case.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
We'll talk soon, thanks Bach. Take quick break. We've got
some other phone calls here, Matt.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Let's let's stick with a couple more calls and then
I will let you let you get ready for whatever
you've got to do tomorrow. Again, appreciate you taking the
time on a Monday night. As are practicing and active attorney.
Your offices are in Newton right if people want to
get in touch with.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
You on this case, we are bathed in Newton, Yes,
Fogman Law or Fogleman Law Firm, and you can find
us online.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
If anyone has information, and sometimes there are people who
do have information, feel free to pass that information along.
We'll take a very quick break here for news and
be back with more calls from my guest, turning Matt Fogelman,
who represents the family of the five year old who
was killed run over by the very bus that had
dropped him off three months ago to the day, right
(19:15):
across the street from his home in Hyde Park.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b
Z Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
My guess is Matt Fogelman.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
He's the attorney for Lens Joseph's family, the little.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Five year old boy in Boston.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And again it's appalling to me the three months, three months.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
After this horrific event.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Clearly I think it was an accident, but I want
to characterize it as an event that took the life
of this five year old kindergarten student that we still
know very little about the prosecution of the case. Will
anyone be charged any any investigation? Now, again, the civil suit,
as Attorney Fogelman indicates, is not the criminal suit, and
(20:09):
he will of course be able to conduct his depositions.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Of everybody involved.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But it would be helpful, it would be helpful if
the family could get some answers, and if the public
at large should get some answer. Let's go next up
to Paul and need him. Paul, you're with attorney Matt Fogelman,
who represents the family of five year old Lens Joseph.
Speaker 6 (20:34):
Go right ahead, Paul, believing mister, for you to prove
a civil case, I think you're going to need some
proof of some negligence here, aren't you. And what I'm
going to ask you is, do you have the initial
officer's report, the first responding officer? Did you get his
report yet? Do you have any pictures or any pavement measurements?
(20:57):
I would think they are going to be very crucial
in your best predation in your case.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yes, thank you for that. I guess I can't get
into too much detail about what we have yet. But
but you're right about the negligence though, and so that's
where you know in a civil case, you're right. So
we look at the driver's actions, but we also look
at the bus companies actions. You know, what were their
(21:26):
policies and procedures. And in this case like this, if
there's negligence on behalf of the employee, that is attributable
to the employer, if that makes sense, So the employer
is essentially responsible for the conduct of their employee.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, the agent of the employer respond yet superior, I
think is what we learned in law school.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Matt, right, that's right, that's right in front of my business.
I won't be offended. But are there reports on file
or are you not? A word of.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yes, but they also there, their investigation is under is
still in process, so we're limited after three.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Month after three months. That's why we're doing it tonight,
Paul with you.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
Well, good luck in yourtion.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I mean I think it's I think it's unacceptable. Do
you think that if there was a bus accident like this,
and by the way, I think it's almost you know,
the result speaks for itself. Rezips a lowkward and the
little boy got off the bus and he was run
over by the bus.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
It could have been we should have been determined very
that's the point I'm trying to make, Paul, We're on
the same page here.
Speaker 6 (22:51):
Absolutely could have been determined within a week. I agree
with you.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, Okay, Well look, Paul, I appreciate your your call,
and I think again more pop should be outraged by
this because seriously, I mean, this is a kid in
the city of Boston. He had just as much the
right of any any other child to expect that he
would be transported safely home. My understanding is that weather
(23:16):
was not a factor that day. I don't think there's
any suggestion that the bus malfunctioned, that there was that
somehow the break you know, let go and the bus
rolled over the child, and there's nothing.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I just think that it's horrific that three months later
there's not more information.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Paul, thank you so much. Thanks, let's keep rowling here.
Going to go to Daniel in Worcester, Daniel Oath attorney
Matt Fogelman talking about the horrific accident that took accident
or I'm going to say event that took the life
of Lens Joseph.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
I heard you talk about it when it happened, and
this is a situation that know, it is horrible and
very you know, very sad and aspersived by the lady
called out there, you know, the passion in which she spoke.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (24:11):
But attorney, I want to salute you because it's sometimes
we can be inclined to find a quick solution, you know,
or to blame. But my position is that you know,
a bus like there's people under estimate how much how
difficult it is for one man to drive a bus
(24:32):
full of little children walking left and right. Make sure
that you know, people sprinting on the streets don't run
into him. So I think the company should have at least,
in my thinking, at least three people on that bus.
One to call the bus stops so the backyard doesn't pass,
two to check the children leaving and actually hold them,
(24:56):
make sure they're off the street, because the five year
olds can if you jump in the street in a moment.
So you know, it's a very sad and very type situation.
And you know, and you know the company, if it
tried to put all the work on just one man
to handle everything on the bus, they are responsible.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, Daniel, I think that's that is a legitimate theory.
At the same time, I will remind you that there
are thousands, tens of thousands of bus drivers across this
country every day who pick up and deliver children to
school safely, and who pick up and deliver the children
home safely. Something horrific went wrong here, and it would
(25:40):
have been nice if there were three people adults on
the bus monitor. Matthew has talked about that. But there
has to be an accounting for the death of this
child under the circumstances. How do we how do we
account for the fact that this driver sideswiped another car
or two just a few minutes before what this horrific accident,
(26:05):
and yet.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
He didn't report it. He didn't stop. He just kept going.
Speaker 6 (26:10):
I didn't stop, you know. For that he should be punished.
But you know, he should be punished for that, and
he should give a pun for that. But I say,
maybe he was overloaded, especially it was a regular Daniel.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You come up with a million excuses. Maybe he had
ingested something. I don't know, Maybe he had a medical issue.
This is the sort of stuff that you come out.
But they should have been able to take whatever toxology
tests were necessary that day. Do you know, Matthew, if
they tested this guy for alcohol, drugs.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
And all that I understanding. My understanding is that the
tox was negative.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
The toxic toxologies were negative. Okay, fine, correct, correct?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Correct? Now whether you know did he have a some
other medical did he have a mental break?
Speaker 4 (26:57):
I don't know which absolutely much more toficult to ascertain, Daniel.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You raise good points, as I say, I wish that
every school bus in the land had three or four
adults on it, But.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
You know, human nineteen but so many things at the
same time.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I know, I.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Understand that, But I'm saying there are a lot of
buses around the country that do function successfully day after day,
week after week, year after year, without an incident of
this nature.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
That's all I mean the bus.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But you have to follow policy and procedure. Right, That's
where we get into trouble, Dan, is when when policies
and procedures are not being followed. Absolutely, you know, not
only in this case but in general in other cases
I'm involved, and that's when you that's when you can
get into some serious problems. Say the procedures, but those
have to be followed and they have to be enforced.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, the policies and procedures should have been he should
have reported the accident. He should have stopped assumed that.
They should have reported it. They should have been a
supervisor who showed up. They should have put a note
at least on the automobiles that would automobile or automobiles
that would damage.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Here. You come out and you see your cars beon sideswipe.
It's like, well, where's the note?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
You know you you can't expect to find that person,
but there should be a note that should say unfortunately, uh,
my vehicle hits your view.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
I don't know, you know, it's just it's where your
study is.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
You should have stopped.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Yeah, Okay, thank you, Dan, You appreciate your call. Thank
you very much.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I promised that I would let you go. So I'm
going to let you go, but we're going to continue
the conversation here. If anyone again has information about the driver,
about the incident UH and wants to contact your office,
give us that website one more time.
Speaker 6 (28:52):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Fogelman Law Firm dot com f O G E.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
L M A N.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Law Firm dot com based in Newton. Thank you so
much for having me.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Please keep us in mind on this as this story develops,
because the justice has to be done for the Lens
Joseph family and for Lens Joseph himself.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Thanks Matt.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We are very we are very committed to that and
we will not rest.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I have no doubt of that. Attorney Matt Fogelman. Thanks
Matt for those of the lines, stay here. I want
to talk about this, okay, and it's an important.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Issue to me.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I have no relations with the family or Matt Fogelman.
It just cries out as not only an injustice, but
in justice that took the life of a five year
old child. And this child's life is just as important
as any child that would have been killed in any
other community in Massachusetts. Simple as that six one, seven, two, five,
(29:54):
four ten thirty six, one seven, nine three, one, ten thirty.
I got some open lines. I want to talk about
this until eleven. I'm not sure what we're going to
do after eleven tonight, but we'll figure it out.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Coming back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
All right, we're talking about the death.
Speaker 10 (30:16):
If you want to call it an accident, that's fine,
an event, an inexplicable event that took the life of
a five year old kindergarten student in Boston three months
ago tonight, and for which there is very little scant
information available from anyone from the Mayor's office, the District
(30:36):
Attorney's office, the Boston Police Department right on down.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And the point that bothers me and it bothers I
know at least one columnist from the Boston Globe is
pretty simple. And that is why the lack of the
dearth of information about the death of this little boy.
For those of you who don't know the story, and
I can only assume most of you don't know the story,
(31:01):
this little boy got off his bus and within a
matter of seconds, as he was attempting to cross the street.
Never should have been in that position tempting across the street.
The bus were in them over six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one
ten thirty.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
If this story does not outrage you, I don't know
what will. Let me go to.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Sandy in Peabody. Sandy, you were next on I I
appreciate you calling in Hi. Uh.
Speaker 11 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (31:32):
When my kids were little, when they got off the bus,
there had to be an adult at the bus stop
to put the hands on or that child would not
be allowed off the bus and they would be returned
to the school for the parent to come pick them up.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Well, that's it. That's that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
In this case, what had happened was in this particular case,
that the bus driver was posed to pull up in
front of the family home and you know, the child
gets off. The two children, who was an eleven year
old cousin and the five year old, they get off
the bus, uh, and they literally walk two steps across
(32:14):
the sidewalk and they're walking, you know, on their onto
their front porch or onto their front steps, or they're
on the on the front front of their their home.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Here the bus driver somehow didn't know where to go.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
He was diagonally across the street, and instead of going
around the block and doing what he had to do
to get the children to a safe spot, he chose
to drop them off diagonally across the street, which meant
the kids had to cross the street. It wasn't another
car that hit the child, it was the bus that
the child had just gotten off.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
That's just the effect that it's taken so long.
Speaker 11 (32:57):
It's not just by the police department for not investigating
that guy should have. Because there was an accident and
a death involved, somebody got hurt, the person should have
been at least brought into questioning.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
They weren't, but no charges have been filed. And it
seems to me pretty simple when you figure out what
happened here that according to the lawyer for the family,
the bus dropped them off at the wrong location, and
it's an eleven year old and a five year old, And.
Speaker 12 (33:35):
Then that's a problem too. You need to know your route.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Well, yeah, because that's the start of the problem.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
And earlier in the day or just a few minutes
before that, this bus apparently sideswiped one or two vehicles
in nearby Mattapan.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I mean it was.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
It was a comedy of errors, but a comedy that
ended in the tragic death, the loss of a five
year old life. And I don't get the sense of
outrage from that I would expect from my audience. Now.
I know we've talked about it a couple of times,
but I want this story to be known. I really
(34:14):
want to make sure that that this child, that that
that that.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
That this family somehow.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Realizes that their son, their their son or their grandson
is not not forgotten.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
That's that's.
Speaker 12 (34:36):
Should have been pulled off the road in that accident.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I hope he stopped, and.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Well, I guess he might. He did stop.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, once he drove, drove over the kid and accarently
he did not have the proper licensure and he was
a relief of his duty.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
He never should have been driving. Sandy, I appreciate your
your empathy and your concern with this. You live in Peebety.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I would have liked to heard from some of the
people from as Well.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Winchester.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
I work in PbD.
Speaker 11 (35:08):
I live in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
All right, well that's okay, thanks, Thanks Andy, I appreciate
your calling. Let me get one more in here before
we got to go to the eleven o'clock news break.
It is Chris Donald Cape call it Chris, you are
next one night saga right here, Chris Hi Dan.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
I haven't really followed this case that closely, but it
is simply scandalous that if the bus driver had hit one,
if not two cars before this incident happened, and then
the tragic tragedy that occurred after that, where's the citation
(35:47):
for hit and run leaving the scene after property damage
number one or two? If there are two cars and three,
why he wasn't cited. My guess is that the either
this guy is connected the bus driver or something else.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, I don't know that many you know, school bus
drivers are connected in that sense. I mean, look, uh,
there have been some very famous and infamous people who
have been involved in automobile accidents which resulted in the
death of an individual, and even you.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Know the Ted Kennedy chap equtic h.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
He stood trial for that, but there was again, there
was there was a woman's life loss there. I don't
know that we'll ever know that story for sure, but
we'll leave that one go.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Well, my point is that I guess indisputably he hit
one or two cars.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Was the driver of the bus that ran over the kids?
The kid gets off the bus and the moment the.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Kids When you think about his foot hits the pavement,
he probably has a matter of three or four or
five seconds at the.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Most to live.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Correct, But where are the citations the tickets for the
first two events? And my guess is you know under
the citation law you in the anti fixed statute, you
must give a citation to the operator within three days.
(37:29):
Is this a problem for the Boston PD that they
didn't ticket him for those first two and they also
may not have ticketed him, let alone arrest him for
that poor tragic death.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I point, there's no, I don't know that you have
to give the ticket. You you may be correct on that,
but I think that's the least of his worries right now.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Well, those are my points that those are points A.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
Good points, Chris, I appreciate whereabouts in the cape? Are you.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
The very end?
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Well the beginning?
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Okay, that's great, thanks, Chris.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I appreciate you calling a great Now, all right, we
are wrapped on that topic. I wish we had had
a greater volume of calls. I don't know what I'm
going to do in the next hour. I'm thinking of
going open lines. We'll talk right after the eleven o'clock
news
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