September 5, 2024 • 39 mins
Gary Tanguay filled in on NightSide:
The MCAS, Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System, is a statewide standards-based assessment program that evaluates public school students. The state requires high school students to pass the 10th grade MCAS exam to graduate. MA Ballot Question 2 proposes we get rid of the MCAS passing score requirement to graduate. Would you vote Yes or No on MA Ballot Question 2? Deb McCarthy of the Vote Yes on 2 campaign joined us to discuss. The MA Dept. of Education did not respond to our request to join.
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The MCAS, Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System, is a statewide standards-based assessment program that evaluates public school students. The state requires high school students to pass the 10th grade MCAS exam to graduate. MA Ballot Question 2 proposes we get rid of the MCAS passing score requirement to graduate. Would you vote Yes or No on MA Ballot Question 2? Deb McCarthy of the Vote Yes on 2 campaign joined us to discuss. The MA Dept. of Education did not respond to our request to join.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
MII, Nicole, thank you very much. By the way, kickoff
the late about twenty minutes in Kansas City due to lightning,
so they took the players off the field. So the
Ravens and Kansas City going about twenty minutes later. Remember
when we used to live in an area where we
had a championship football team. My god, it seems so
long ago, doesn't it. But I am never going to
bitch and moan about the New England Patriots. By the way,
(00:28):
this is Nightside, Gary Tagwig, not a sports tuck show.
But just real quickly, I will never complain about the
New England Patriots. I don't care how bad it gets.
I don't care if they don't win a game this year.
It doesn't matter to me. We had twenty years of bliss,
of just unparalleled bliss. I don't want to hear anybody
ever complain about the Pats. It's time to rebuild. Live
(00:49):
with it, Live with it people. So I guess while
I'm on football, I should say coming up at eleven o'clock,
Nicole Yang is going to join us from the Boston
Globe and we'll talk about my buddy Gerard Mayo making
his coaching debut. Jacobe Brissett is going to be the quarterback.
Sunday at one o'clock, the Patriots will open up in Cincinnati.
(01:11):
It's just so weird, right to have the Patriots and
their season opener at one o'clock on a Sunday, where
it wasn't that long ago they wore the Kansas City
Chiefs and they were hosting a Thursday night season opening
football game at Foxboro. But those days are over, so
Sunday had won, the Pats open up in Cincy. Got
to be a long year, as it should be, but
(01:31):
they will rebuild. I have a lot of faith in
Gerrod Mayo, so we'll talk to Nicole about that. And
I just don't want the quarterback to get killed. I
mean their offensive line is who little Swiss cheese action.
The Truth About Horses terrific story written by author Christy Cashman.
A lot of people know Christy town philanthropists, actor, producer, author.
(01:53):
What doesn't she do? Her and her husband Jay? They
own a castle. They have a castle in Ireland. I mean,
my god, God, is there anything they don't do? When
do they sleep? I'm really curious about the whole castle thing,
how that went down. But she has a terrific story
(02:14):
about a fourteen year old Rehes Tucker, and it's about
training horses. Everybody loves a story about horses. I mean,
I don't have a horse. I rode a horse once.
I was with my family on vacation. We were in
Santa Fe, New Mexico, and uh, they needed the jaws
of life to get me off the horse. I'm not
(02:35):
flexible in many areas, specifically the groinary. That's right, I said, groinery.
So when you put me on a horse, you need
to You need a rib spreader to get me on
and the jaws of life to get me off. But
who doesn't love horses? Who doesn't love a story about horses?
(02:57):
This is a this is you got to check this out,
and not a clock. We talked to Ben Selko. He
is a nominated IMMAN nominated excuse me, filmmaker. He does
great work. He's a friend of mine too. I know
bet He did the Mary Tyler Moore documentary which I loved,
which was fantastic. But he has a new one out
and it is crazy. It's crazy. Just when you think
(03:20):
you've seen it all right, you go, what excuse me?
What chasing a true crime con man? Killer lies? A
serial killer expert Stefan Bergonne from France? Is he what
he seems? This is an incredible tale. It's an incredible
(03:45):
tale about a gentleman who became very accustomed to telling
incredible tales. Obviously, it's crazy, it's nuts, it's crazy. It's
sick too. I mean, but here's the thing. You know,
the whole thing about serial killers and murder and all that.
It's very disturbing. But people can't take their eyes off it.
(04:07):
They cannot take their eyes off it. You can stream it.
It's a three part series. You could see it on Hulu.
It's from National Geographic in Hulu but streaming on Hulu
right now. And I suggest you check it out if
you love the whole true crime thing. People love it.
My wife is it, loves it, loves it. She's a calm,
very successful business woman. We go on a trip true crime,
(04:30):
just the things that are coming out of the radio
that she's just riveted to and I go, who are you?
And the MCST. I've never understood the MCST. I've never
understood the reason for it. The Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System,
a state wide standard based assessment program about Yeah, we know,
(04:50):
you have to pass it in the tenth grade or
you can't graduate. Now, Dev McCarthy will vote yes on two,
which means if you vote yes on two, that's a
no for the m CAST. We are going to talk
to her about why she believes the m CAST should
go away. We did reach out to the mass Department
(05:11):
of Education. They did not respond. They were not interested
in joining us tonight, but if they want to call in,
please do. I got to be honest with you. As
a parent, I was like, okay, kids, just take it. Fortunately,
my kids past hasn't been an issue. It does cause
a lot of anxiety, a lot of anxiety, and I've
(05:32):
always sat back and I've just wondered, shouldn't school be enough.
I'm not saying that you should eliminate the m CAST
because I want it to be easier for kids. I
don't want it to be easier for kids. I think
(05:52):
in many aspects our children have it too easy as is.
But we pay money, we pay tax is, we want
a good school system. Sometimes we move to cities or
towns with a higher tax rate. Because we want a
quality school system. Why do we need the m cast
to look over the teacher's shoulders to make sure the
(06:13):
teachers are doing a good job. Like, if I'm a
teacher and you got the M cast, I'm kind of pissed.
It does give me a couple of days off. I
get a couple of days off, you know, because I
can just hand up the test. But the m casts
are basically looking over my shoulder to see if I'm
doing a good job. Do we Is that necessary? Isn't
(06:37):
that why we have school? And I'm not being a jerk. Look,
I love my kids' school. My kids have had terrific
experiences with students where we live, with educators where we live.
I'm not bitching. I'm asking the question, isn't the school
system enough? I mean, we have a principal, we have
an assistant principal, we have guidance counselors, We've you know,
(06:58):
various departments. I mean, isn't that enough to make sure
that our kids are learning properly and developing the proper aptitude.
And obviously, when we're gonna talk to deb coming up,
are the mcast accurate?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I think so? I think sometimes, you know, we
will let kids off the hook a little bit. Well,
oh they'll get it. Oh they don't need mad for
what they're going to do in life, or they're not
going to need science for what they want to do
in life. Well they may not, but they have to
learn how to tackle a subject or a topic that
is a challenge to them or unfamiliar to them or
(07:40):
uncomfortable for them, so that when it comes to real
life and they have to take on projects and challenges
in life to make a living that they don't like
and they're not comfortable with, they have the confidence to
attack it. You know. I understand that one of my
kids is never going to be a mathematician, never going
to teach an MIT, never going to work in a lab,
(08:00):
never going to work as an engineer. But I think
it's necessary for them to learn how to take on
the challenge, you know. So sometimes it's just getting back
to the basics reading, writing, and arithmetic and being staunch
about it and making the kids do the work. But anyways,
(08:21):
Deborah McGrath is going to join us who says vote
yes on two which means no on the M cast,
and we will talk to dev and we also want
your phone calls on this six seven two five, four
ten thirty. I'm about eight thirty. We can start taking
some calls. But here's the deal with the calls, folks.
I'm not running the type of show where people come
in and scream and yell and beat people up verbally.
(08:44):
If you're a parent, you have an opinion on the mcast,
or you've been involved in the mcast, you have an
experience with it, and you can enlighten us and bring
something to the conversation. If you're a student and you've
taken the mcst and you you've had anxiety over it
and you don't see the need for it, or maybe
you do see the need for it, or equal opportunity.
(09:07):
If you disagree with me or you disagree with dev listen,
I welcome all discussion. Still come in. Yelling and screaming
it gives me a headache. All right, come in, you know,
let's let's have a conversation about this at six one
seven two, five, four ten thirty The Mcast. Yeah Your
Name Next with Deborah McGrath on wbz's night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Welcome back, Gary tankwa here for Dan tonight six one, seven,
two four ten thirty is the telephone number. Give us
a call here and jump on with night Side as
we talk about the mcast. Now, if you're a parent,
I want to hear from you. If you've been involved
in this, you have thoughts on both sides of the street.
If you will, please welcome to the conversation. And I'm
going to talk to Debah McGrath right now. Dev. Thank
you for joining us here on wbz's Night Side.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Well one, I thank you for having me. The name
is mccafey, not McGrath.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Well that's okay.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
We got a little table here. Been a long day
for me. At least I got the first name, right, Deb.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Okay, Well that's okay, long day for me too. So
we're in the same boat. Okay, nice to meet you.
And what did you say your name was?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
My name is Gary. Nice to meet you together, all right, Dev,
good to meet you too, Okay, Dev McCarthy excuse me,
all right? So the vote gash on two campaign? Why
should we get rid of the MCST. So we're not.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Getting rid of the MCST. That's not true, the mcast
will still be given. I think it's important to note
that I was an educator for twenty five years and
that this question simply eliminates the high stakes, not the
high standards. The standards don't go anywhere. The mcast is
(10:54):
not going anywhere. This will simply allow a certain percentage
of students that we see year in and year out
who are being denied a diploma because of a learning style.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Okay, well you got to help me out here then,
because really I'm a little lost, because okay, you're saying,
so you want to keep the M cast right, is staying?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
The mcast will still be given. It's not going anywhere.
So what happens is there are students who meet all
of the core requirements grades nine through twelve, and there
are hundreds of these stories every year. There's over seven
hundred kids who do everything that they need to do
(11:47):
in school, but because they did not pass that one test,
they're deny in diploma. And so this question will provide
educational equity for all learners.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I'm lost when you say education, when you say
educational equity to all learners, So I mean, what's the
point of having it is? If you've what's the point
of having the m cast if you flunk it and
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, So that's not what's going on here. So they
are learners who are dyslexic, who can present some of
the best learning in the classroom September through and they
A B students. They are the stronger students when they demonstrate.
(12:45):
They're all speaking on performance assessment tasks. But when the
MCAST is given. One of the things that I think
people don't understand is test is design, specifically with the
distractor and the multiple Joy's question. So my dyslexic learners
can miss the word not and so if they know
(13:06):
the content, but it's the fine detail in the print.
The other thing that happens over and over again. You
have really strong science and MAP students. They manipulate the data,
they construct it, they use it in challenging and complex ways.
But the question asks them to write three paragraphs about
how they got their answer. If you're a dyslexic student,
(13:28):
that is not necessarily a strength. You're really good in science,
but that's not what you're being measured on. You're measured
on your ability to construct a well formulated, prescribed paragraph
that explains, So it's those students who are showing up
(13:50):
in our class, doing their work, getting good grades, who
will have the opportunity to get the diploma because they
didn't this one cast.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay, so what you're saying, no, I got now, so
what But to me, this is fine, you know, no,
but and I agree with you. I don't think you
should have the M cast at all. Well, okay, so
here's my point, Like, this is what I don't understand that.
This is what I don't understand is that you said
there are basically there are no options. There are no
(14:24):
allowances for kids with learning disabilities with the M cast.
That's what you're telling me.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well that's true.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, okay, I mean but that's okay, that's insane to me.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Vote I told I said that.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I said that. I said that at the opening of
the show.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But what I'm not I don't want to yell. I
just didn't hear the beginning of the show. Like you,
I had a long day and I happen to come
in at age fifteen, so I didn't hear you in
the beginning of the show. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
No, Yeah, I know we're arguing. I don't understand. But
to me, what I find frustrating is not your point
the question. I think that to me, the fact that
this question has to be asked, that if a kid
is a learning disability, that there is an allowance for
them with the m CAST. I thought that was already done.
I'm fortunate as a parrot my kids don't have learning disabilities.
(15:15):
K I would thank you very much. Okay, so I've
never had to deal with this. I'm shocked that a
kid with a learning disability does not receive an allowance
with the m CAST.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, I thank you for those sentiments. I will tell
you this, we have been trying legislatively for over a
decade to get this handled, and there are some who
have been at it for about fifteen years, and we
have not been able to get this addressed legislatively through
(15:51):
the Department of Education, and so we brought it to
the ballot. I will tell you that in the fall
we were able to get one hundred and seventy nine
signatures really easy. In the spring we had parents who
collected more than ten thousand on their own. I think
the other thing about this question that is really had
(16:13):
when I said educational equity that students who go to
private schools they don't have to pass the INCAST. I
work with educators who would remove their kids from the
public school system and send them to a private school
so that they didn't have to meet the mandates of
(16:34):
this one time test score to get a diploma.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And that's expensive, well.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
And that's the educational equity piece, right for your working
class family, they can't afford that, and so they're denied
that opportunity of equity because they can't afford to go
to a private school. I come from a family where
the learners. Some in the family we are dyslexic. And
(17:02):
the problem with passing a one time test like a
lot of times like they'll have the answer to the
question underneath the picture or at the bottom of the page,
and so it's about the ability. To me. Sometimes I
feel like we're asking a child who is color blind
to find the color purple on a page, and so
their disability is not accommodated with this one time test.
(17:27):
And so this really is about allowing students the opportunity
to get a high school diploma. I heard a story
last night a dad in Cambridge who lost tuition scholarships
to go to college because he couldn't pass the test,
he didn't get a diploma, and it literally destroyed his life.
(17:49):
I'll tell you one other, real quick one. You're going
to be seeing our commercial coming out. We have a
student in the commercial. She's been an ab student. She
did not pass the science poor as a ninth grader,
and so now as a sophomore, she can't take the
enrichment class. She has to take an extra science class
(18:09):
to teach her how to pass that test. People talk
about how this child who's now a young adult, has
like literally had their self confidence destroyed even though they've
been a strong academic student because they couldn't meet the
metrics of this one time science test.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Okay, but now, deb while I agree with you, did
this student have a learning disability?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Well, I so I did not have that student in
my classroom, but I can.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
This is what's confusing about it.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Very well be dyslexic, but I wouldn't know that.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay, but this wasn't in my classroom.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
But I can tell you that I had plenty of
students in my classroom who were dyslexic, who did not
demonstrate their true intellectual on a one time test.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Score.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's fine, But this is why your cause is confusing.
You just told me about a young woman who didn't
pass a certain section of the MCST test, but you're
not and you're saying now that her life is ruined,
which I think is terrible. I'm not an MCST guy anyways,
but we don't know if she had a learning disability.
(19:23):
So to me, if you're saying the mcasts are bad
because it does not accommodate kids with learning disabilities, why
don't just go all the way, I mean, why even
have the why you even have the m test to
begin with.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Because first of all, I'm not the Commissioner of Education.
I'm just an educator who has left the classroom to
try to realign and do something about the palm that
we're seeing every year. So if somebody wants to bring
a ball a question next year that removes the mcast,
(20:03):
let's have a conversation. But that's not what this is about.
This is the mcast will be in place. We will
still have the standards. We have standards, base report cards,
we have lesson plans aligning to the standards. We have
the best standards uh in the country. Standards aren't going anywhere.
This is simply about providing educational equity for those students
(20:24):
who can't pass that one time event.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
All right, Dev McCarthy is our guest, She says, vote
yes on two which would get which would get rid
of the m cast passing score requirement to graduate. That's
the way I understand it, which pretty much says to me, yea, yeah,
passage score requirement to graduate. But yeah, all right, we're
going to clear this up in a minute. Passing score
(20:46):
to graduate four kids who suffer learning disabilities? Correct?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Correct, There is nothing in the language that says kids
who stuff learning dis So what you're saying, So.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
What you're saying if a kid flunks the m CAST,
they should still be able to graduate.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Am I saying that a student too flunks the m
CAST and meets all of the requirements ninth grade through twelve,
they meet all of the metrics, pass all of their classes. Yes,
I think they should be able to get based upon
their high school to POMA.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That's what I said at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We've got four years the English've got to do this
three years, go ahead. I'm missing something, that's the case.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
But if that's the case, what's the point of evening
at me.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why are you yelling at me? Because I'm not the
one who says you have to have the m CAST.
Who's don't yelling at me? I'm not I understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
But the point is is you came on. You came
on and you said that it should be what what
the what the situation says, if you flunk the m
cast and you have a learning disability, you should you're
allowed still to graduate. Now you're saying if you have
if you look at cash, That's what you said to
me at the top of the show. That's what you said.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Because I do believe that if you if you do
not pass the m CAST, I believe you should get
a high school diploma if you meet the metrics that
are in place.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So why even have it? So I don't even understand
this question.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I can't argue about why. I'm not the one who
has brought the m CAST forward as a state requirement.
It's a law. That's not me. I'm just trying to
provide equity to the students. And it's not just me.
This is thousands and thousands and thousands of parents and
educators and community activists like the support on this. We
(22:44):
can't even keep up with the signs because every time
we turn around and get another yes on tu signs,
they're gone. You can't keep up. People are really engaged
in this issue, and so it's this isn't a me thing.
This is a coalition of educators, parents and former students
(23:05):
who are asking that they be so much more than
a one time test score.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So yes on two says thank you, just so, just
so I understand, because yes on two says, if you
flunk the m CASH you should still be able to graduate. Period.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It says that if you meet the metrics, the course requirements.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And flunk the m CASH, you could still graduate, and you.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Do not pass a one time test score, you would
still get a diploma. Currently, you have students who do
everything that they need to do as freshmen, do everything
that they need to do with software right, do everything
that they need to do as juniors, and do everything
that they need to do as seniors, and then they
(23:53):
get the MCAST score and that some of these kids
are only four points off, some are six points.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
What if they what if they plug two sections of.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Oh no, you can pass two sections and only flunk
one and you still can't get the diploma.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
What I'm saying is if you if you.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Say three different tests, it's three different tests. It's not sections.
There's a math test, right, there's an e l A test,
and there's a science test. And so one of the
things that you see a lot is like really strong
science students who do really good on the science test, right,
and they do really good on the math test.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I understand they may not do.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So good on the e l A test. Yes, they
would be denied a diploma. They could be a straight
A math student, they could be a straight A science student.
But if writing was not their four K. Let's say
they were a dyslexic learner. Let's say they were a
student on an IP. Let's say they were a student
that had only been over here for two years and
(24:54):
hadn't mastered the English language. Even though they passed math,
even though they passed science, and even though they had
good grades, they could not get a diploma because they
didn't pass the English test.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
What if they flunk two out of the three?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Still no tests, Still no, no, don't make a difference.
You could have. We have a story of a kid
who was a class valedictorian in a sub class. He
had that pulled away from him because he didn't pass it.
So you have to pass it doesn't make a difference.
And that's what we're saying, is.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
No, I understand that, but you don't understand my question.
My question was if they flugged two three, if they
flunk two out of three, does that change your mind
at all? Like if they plugged two out of three,
would you be like, oh wow, they flugged two out
of three. That's a different story than flunking one out
of three.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So I'm here to talk about the question and what
the question does. And the question allows students to get
a high school diploma based upon their academic performance grades
nine through twelve.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right, okay, thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I oh, thank you. It nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, it's nice to me too. That was extremely painful.
I agree with you, though it sounds like I didn't,
But I agree with you one hundred percent. I don't
see why we have the m cast at all. Thank
you very much. Deb. We appreciate the phone call. I
we appreciate you coming on. So that's what yes, and too,
I want some parents to call in on this, you know,
and what do you think? I mean, I think if
you have a good student and they flunked the M
cast in the tenth grade and they can't graduate, I
(26:27):
think that's dumb. And I don't think teachers like the
m cast either. It just puts more pressure on them.
All Right, Some calls on this coming up at six, one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
You know, I am such a hypocritic. Gary tanking way
for Dan Ray tonight. I said at the opening we
wanted to take calls. It talked to Deb McCarthy about
question two, which paraphrasing here, says, if you flunked the
M cast in the tenth grade, you can still graduate,
and I agreed with her, and I wanted to have
(27:05):
an intelligent conversation and I ended up yelling. So I
apologize because I got extremely confused on what her point
was though I agreed with it. And maybe it's on me,
but parents, what do you think of the M cast? Fortunately,
I've never really had to concern myself with it. I
was just not going to rob my producer, you know.
I always just thought it was a measuring device to
(27:28):
see how the school was doing, and that if I
really wasn't aware until we brought up this topic with
to have it on the show that if you did
not pass one of the elements of the m cast
in the tenth grade you couldn't graduate. That seems a
little harsh to me. Let's talk to Paul about this
and task at Paul. You're up on WBC's night set.
(27:49):
How's it going?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
How you doing?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Am I on?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You're on? All right?
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Hey? What's the percentage of people who don't pass? Anyone
have that?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It's a great question, and I should have asked her
on that cold check the old Google machine right now.
And while I do that, I'll ask you where do
you fall on this?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
I think that you gotta have some kind of way
of testing. You're going to make sure the teachers that
teach them well they should be teaching. I think that helps.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Why do you need that, though? I mean, listen, if
you have a principle, if you have the administration was
it was our educational system doing so crappy before that
that we needed the m CAST. I don't ever remember that,
And maybe I was just lucky because I had great teachers.
I went to a great school system. Now, I went
to a school system in Main, Paul that was not
(28:40):
you know, Lincoln, Massachusetts or Wellesley, where it had an
unbelievable tax base. We actually, come to think about it,
we had a get tax base because we had a
huge paper company that was like ninety five percent of
the tax base. But I went to a small school
in Mexico, Maine, and my teachers were great. I didn't.
I don't. I don't understand it. I mean, I don't.
(29:02):
I just don't get it. Like if you's, are the
MCST simply a way of administrators covering their ass you
know what I mean? I mean, if you have a principal,
you have an assistant principal, you have a board, you
have the school board. Can't they decide if the teachers
are doing a good job. Why do we need a
standardized test to tell us if they are or not?
I mean, Paul, can't you tell when you have a
(29:22):
good teacher or a bad teacher? Can't you? Why do
we need a test to tell us that? I never
understood it.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Well, they're actually teaching for the MCST, most of them probably.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I don't know if that's good. You know, Paul, I
don't know if that's good because if you're teaching, if
you're basically teaching kids to pass a test to keep
your job, that's not good because that means that you're
not customizing your academic program to the kids in your
class like I'm teaching it.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I'm they only teach English and English and the in that.
So what's the sense of taking your science classes? They
don't or history? No one knows anything about history. You
ask some people on the street something about history, who
was a certain president? They don't even know. So even
the standardized test of SAT is not even right. They
(30:14):
should have science and history, so I mean, you know,
you eliminate everything on that. So m cast are probably
showing that before you got out. Is they're trying to
round you up a get more round. Maybe I don't know.
I can't figure it out now.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I don't know, but I will tell you this, and
I appreciate the phone call. A lot of colleges dropping
SATs and standardized testing. You know, my kids are playing
for college SAT optional. Yeah, I mean my SAT scores sucked.
I didn't do. I mean, I think my combined score
is barely a thousand. I'm doing okay, I ain't grob
(30:49):
I did all right. You know it's look, folks, it
is about busting your ass and working hard. Okay, good
question by the collor Paul. One percent of the Massachusetts
students do not graduate from high school each year because
they did not pass the MCAST one percent. So it's
(31:11):
a seven hundred kids. Seven hundred kids is a lot
a Massachusetts student did not graduate from high school because
they didn't pass the MCAST. One percent is a small number.
It's a small percentage, but seven hundred sounds like a
large number to me. I don't know. That's just I
(31:33):
don't know how you guys study habits, keeping deadlines and
when I say reading, writing, arithmetic, of course I'm simplifying it.
I understand we have technology and computer sciences and the
way kids learn are different than they learned when I
was a kid, and so forth and so on. I
understand all that. Believe me, I get it. I mean, hell,
(31:55):
you got to teach AI in school. Now it's here, man,
it's here. How do you manage AI? How do you
deal with Ai? AI writes term papers for kids, which
that scares the hell out of me. It really does.
Kids not being able to write scares it's but they don't.
They don't have to write, you know. I think most
(32:20):
parents don't even think twice about the m CAST. If
your kid flugs, then you flip out. But I don't
think any of us think twice about it. They don't,
we don't. I've never seen the need for it. I
(32:41):
never have seen the need for it. And I've just
struck my shoulders. Okay, it's MCAST. Teachers have some days
off because you're taking the MCAST test. And believe me,
I am pro teacher. I am pro teacher. I think
we are very fortunate. My kids have had some fabulous teachers,
people that could have made a lot more money in
the private sector, and they choose to teach, and they
(33:04):
don't make the money that they would have made if
they had gone in the business, or gone into the
law school or mid school or what have you. And
I believe that the majority of teachers are good. I mean,
just like any other profession, you're gonna have some bad ags,
you're gonna have some bad apples. It's not gonna work out.
But I can't understand that if you're a teacher and
you've got the mcast looking over your shoulder. That's going
(33:27):
to kind of suck. It really does. I think it does,
and I think it was put in place to make
sure teachers do their job. Isn't that what the administration
is supposed to do? Isn't that what I'm paying taxes
for the administrators to do? Coming up at nine o'clock,
Chasing a true crime con man. This story is unbelievable.
(33:51):
It's a three part series streaming on Hulu, and we're
going to talk to the filmmaker Ben Selko about it.
That's all coming up at nine o'clock right here on
wb and Friday, Friday, nine o'clock, ten o'clock. Actually I
screwed this up. Ten o'clock. We have some special programming
for you. We have some special programming for you, and
(34:14):
I have more information on that coming up right here
on wbz's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio, Gary Tangway for
Dan Raid tonight, hanging out all this week.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
As I mentioned, tomorrow night, we have a special special
segment coming up at ten o'clock tomorrow evening. We will
break down the Karen Read story now Karen Reid is
in an interview that she recorded prior to the trial,
or around the trial, maybe prior to the trial. I
think for ABC is going to air tomorrow, so we're
(34:51):
going to do some analysis of it. That's all gonna
happen with Attorney's Bill Kick Him and Bob George tomorrow night,
right here at ten o'clock on W will you will
have seen what Karen has to say about the situation.
I assume there will be some new information and I
wonder if this and we'll also talk to our attorneys
(35:13):
on how this is gonna help her possibly with the
upcoming trial. Now here's the thing, Okay, if there's there's
gonna be a new jury selection for this retrial, and
they're gonna have to sit there and say, we did
not see this special with Karen Reid was talking to
ABC on twenty twenty about what went down in her opinion,
(35:34):
in her eyes, the way she remembers it, how you're
gonna pick a juror that won't see that, that's good
luck with that. So we're going to be doing a
little postgame analysis about that. I shouldn't say postgame analysis
because you know, a police officer died. We're gonna be
doing some post show analysis tomorrow night on the new
(35:55):
information we'll learn from the telecast, the broadcast of Karen
Reid on ABC with our attorneys Bob and Bill Bill
and Bob Bill kick him and Bob George right here
on WBC's Night Side. But just to wrap up again,
my thoughts on mcast is, I've just never understood why
we need him in the first place. We have to
(36:16):
trust our teachers. You have to give more support to teachers.
And again Deb McCarthy's joining us about voting us on
yes on two question two Mass ballot Question two, which
says to basically get rid of the MCAST passing score
as a requirement to graduate, Well, if you don't have
(36:37):
to pass it to graduate, I guess the point in
having it is to measure how the educational system is doing,
which is what I understood it to be in the
first place. But then if it became a gateway to graduation,
if you do not pass all three elements of the
MCAST in your sophomore year in high school, you will
(36:58):
not graduate. Plus it's the tenth grade. What happens if
you get your act together, your junior and senior year.
Shouldn't this be taking place their senior year and they
should have an opportunity to retake it again. I don't
understand that if you flunk the MCAST your sophomore year
(37:20):
you can't graduate two years from now or two and
a half years from now. That doesn't make any sense
to me at all. I know some teachers were not
in favor of this because it's sort of a watchdog
thing on them that if the MCST grades in their
school are down, it's going to make them look bad,
which I can understand that. I think teaching is hard enough.
Now you need somebody looking over your shoulder. It's hard,
(37:43):
I mean the educ Being an educator is really hard.
Being an administrator in education is really hard. It is
a thankless job. The people that do it and do
it well, you should receive a medal. You don't get
paid enough. I understand you have off I understand you
can get out of school at three. I understand all that,
(38:04):
but I also know that there's a lot of work
you have to do behind the scenes. The things that
I still don't understand for teachers is where you know,
when my kids were younger, they still buy supplies for
the school, or they'll come to us as parents and
they'll say, my god, I think I spent two hundred
dollars on markers and notebooks when I went to school.
(38:25):
That was a number two pencil and a notebook, and
that was it. Because the schools aren't supplying it and
the teachers can't afford to pay it on their own.
Like when a teacher has to go out and buy
school supplies, that I don't understand at all. You know what,
can the m cast take the money you would save
(38:45):
from Cannon the m cast and buy the school supplies
so the teacher or the parent doesn't have to buy it.
That's what I say. Chasing a True crime. Con Man
and Celko, who directed this film It's Something Else, joins
us next here WBC
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
MII, Nicole, thank you very much. By the way, kickoff
the late about twenty minutes in Kansas City due to lightning,
so they took the players off the field. So the
Ravens and Kansas City going about twenty minutes later. Remember
when we used to live in an area where we
had a championship football team. My god, it seems so
long ago, doesn't it. But I am never going to
bitch and moan about the New England Patriots. By the way,
(00:28):
this is Nightside, Gary Tagwig, not a sports tuck show.
But just real quickly, I will never complain about the
New England Patriots. I don't care how bad it gets.
I don't care if they don't win a game this year.
It doesn't matter to me. We had twenty years of bliss,
of just unparalleled bliss. I don't want to hear anybody
ever complain about the Pats. It's time to rebuild. Live
(00:49):
with it, Live with it people. So I guess while
I'm on football, I should say coming up at eleven o'clock,
Nicole Yang is going to join us from the Boston
Globe and we'll talk about my buddy Gerard Mayo making
his coaching debut. Jacobe Brissett is going to be the quarterback.
Sunday at one o'clock, the Patriots will open up in Cincinnati.
(01:11):
It's just so weird, right to have the Patriots and
their season opener at one o'clock on a Sunday, where
it wasn't that long ago they wore the Kansas City
Chiefs and they were hosting a Thursday night season opening
football game at Foxboro. But those days are over, so
Sunday had won, the Pats open up in Cincy. Got
to be a long year, as it should be, but
(01:31):
they will rebuild. I have a lot of faith in
Gerrod Mayo, so we'll talk to Nicole about that. And
I just don't want the quarterback to get killed. I
mean their offensive line is who little Swiss cheese action.
The Truth About Horses terrific story written by author Christy Cashman.
A lot of people know Christy town philanthropists, actor, producer, author.
(01:53):
What doesn't she do? Her and her husband Jay? They
own a castle. They have a castle in Ireland. I mean,
my god, God, is there anything they don't do? When
do they sleep? I'm really curious about the whole castle thing,
how that went down. But she has a terrific story
(02:14):
about a fourteen year old Rehes Tucker, and it's about
training horses. Everybody loves a story about horses. I mean,
I don't have a horse. I rode a horse once.
I was with my family on vacation. We were in
Santa Fe, New Mexico, and uh, they needed the jaws
of life to get me off the horse. I'm not
(02:35):
flexible in many areas, specifically the groinary. That's right, I said, groinery.
So when you put me on a horse, you need
to You need a rib spreader to get me on
and the jaws of life to get me off. But
who doesn't love horses? Who doesn't love a story about horses?
(02:57):
This is a this is you got to check this out,
and not a clock. We talked to Ben Selko. He
is a nominated IMMAN nominated excuse me, filmmaker. He does
great work. He's a friend of mine too. I know
bet He did the Mary Tyler Moore documentary which I loved,
which was fantastic. But he has a new one out
and it is crazy. It's crazy. Just when you think
(03:20):
you've seen it all right, you go, what excuse me?
What chasing a true crime con man? Killer lies? A
serial killer expert Stefan Bergonne from France? Is he what
he seems? This is an incredible tale. It's an incredible
(03:45):
tale about a gentleman who became very accustomed to telling
incredible tales. Obviously, it's crazy, it's nuts, it's crazy. It's
sick too. I mean, but here's the thing. You know,
the whole thing about serial killers and murder and all that.
It's very disturbing. But people can't take their eyes off it.
(04:07):
They cannot take their eyes off it. You can stream it.
It's a three part series. You could see it on Hulu.
It's from National Geographic in Hulu but streaming on Hulu
right now. And I suggest you check it out if
you love the whole true crime thing. People love it.
My wife is it, loves it, loves it. She's a calm,
very successful business woman. We go on a trip true crime,
(04:30):
just the things that are coming out of the radio
that she's just riveted to and I go, who are you?
And the MCST. I've never understood the MCST. I've never
understood the reason for it. The Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System,
a state wide standard based assessment program about Yeah, we know,
(04:50):
you have to pass it in the tenth grade or
you can't graduate. Now, Dev McCarthy will vote yes on two,
which means if you vote yes on two, that's a
no for the m CAST. We are going to talk
to her about why she believes the m CAST should
go away. We did reach out to the mass Department
(05:11):
of Education. They did not respond. They were not interested
in joining us tonight, but if they want to call in,
please do. I got to be honest with you. As
a parent, I was like, okay, kids, just take it. Fortunately,
my kids past hasn't been an issue. It does cause
a lot of anxiety, a lot of anxiety, and I've
(05:32):
always sat back and I've just wondered, shouldn't school be enough.
I'm not saying that you should eliminate the m CAST
because I want it to be easier for kids. I
don't want it to be easier for kids. I think
(05:52):
in many aspects our children have it too easy as is.
But we pay money, we pay tax is, we want
a good school system. Sometimes we move to cities or
towns with a higher tax rate. Because we want a
quality school system. Why do we need the m cast
to look over the teacher's shoulders to make sure the
(06:13):
teachers are doing a good job. Like, if I'm a
teacher and you got the M cast, I'm kind of pissed.
It does give me a couple of days off. I
get a couple of days off, you know, because I
can just hand up the test. But the m casts
are basically looking over my shoulder to see if I'm
doing a good job. Do we Is that necessary? Isn't
(06:37):
that why we have school? And I'm not being a jerk. Look,
I love my kids' school. My kids have had terrific
experiences with students where we live, with educators where we live.
I'm not bitching. I'm asking the question, isn't the school
system enough? I mean, we have a principal, we have
an assistant principal, we have guidance counselors, We've you know,
(06:58):
various departments. I mean, isn't that enough to make sure
that our kids are learning properly and developing the proper aptitude.
And obviously, when we're gonna talk to deb coming up,
are the mcast accurate?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
You know?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I think so? I think sometimes, you know, we
will let kids off the hook a little bit. Well,
oh they'll get it. Oh they don't need mad for
what they're going to do in life, or they're not
going to need science for what they want to do
in life. Well they may not, but they have to
learn how to tackle a subject or a topic that
is a challenge to them or unfamiliar to them or
(07:40):
uncomfortable for them, so that when it comes to real
life and they have to take on projects and challenges
in life to make a living that they don't like
and they're not comfortable with, they have the confidence to
attack it. You know. I understand that one of my
kids is never going to be a mathematician, never going
to teach an MIT, never going to work in a lab,
(08:00):
never going to work as an engineer. But I think
it's necessary for them to learn how to take on
the challenge, you know. So sometimes it's just getting back
to the basics reading, writing, and arithmetic and being staunch
about it and making the kids do the work. But anyways,
(08:21):
Deborah McGrath is going to join us who says vote
yes on two which means no on the M cast,
and we will talk to dev and we also want
your phone calls on this six seven two five, four
ten thirty. I'm about eight thirty. We can start taking
some calls. But here's the deal with the calls, folks.
I'm not running the type of show where people come
in and scream and yell and beat people up verbally.
(08:44):
If you're a parent, you have an opinion on the mcast,
or you've been involved in the mcast, you have an
experience with it, and you can enlighten us and bring
something to the conversation. If you're a student and you've
taken the mcst and you you've had anxiety over it
and you don't see the need for it, or maybe
you do see the need for it, or equal opportunity.
(09:07):
If you disagree with me or you disagree with dev listen,
I welcome all discussion. Still come in. Yelling and screaming
it gives me a headache. All right, come in, you know,
let's let's have a conversation about this at six one
seven two, five, four ten thirty The Mcast. Yeah Your
Name Next with Deborah McGrath on wbz's night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Welcome back, Gary tankwa here for Dan tonight six one, seven,
two four ten thirty is the telephone number. Give us
a call here and jump on with night Side as
we talk about the mcast. Now, if you're a parent,
I want to hear from you. If you've been involved
in this, you have thoughts on both sides of the street.
If you will, please welcome to the conversation. And I'm
going to talk to Debah McGrath right now. Dev. Thank
you for joining us here on wbz's Night Side.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Well one, I thank you for having me. The name
is mccafey, not McGrath.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Well that's okay.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
We got a little table here. Been a long day
for me. At least I got the first name, right, Deb.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Okay, Well that's okay, long day for me too. So
we're in the same boat. Okay, nice to meet you.
And what did you say your name was?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
My name is Gary. Nice to meet you together, all right, Dev,
good to meet you too, Okay, Dev McCarthy excuse me,
all right? So the vote gash on two campaign? Why
should we get rid of the MCST. So we're not.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Getting rid of the MCST. That's not true, the mcast
will still be given. I think it's important to note
that I was an educator for twenty five years and
that this question simply eliminates the high stakes, not the
high standards. The standards don't go anywhere. The mcast is
(10:54):
not going anywhere. This will simply allow a certain percentage
of students that we see year in and year out
who are being denied a diploma because of a learning style.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Okay, well you got to help me out here then,
because really I'm a little lost, because okay, you're saying,
so you want to keep the M cast right, is staying?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
The mcast will still be given. It's not going anywhere.
So what happens is there are students who meet all
of the core requirements grades nine through twelve, and there
are hundreds of these stories every year. There's over seven
hundred kids who do everything that they need to do
(11:47):
in school, but because they did not pass that one test,
they're deny in diploma. And so this question will provide
educational equity for all learners.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I'm lost when you say education, when you say
educational equity to all learners, So I mean, what's the
point of having it is? If you've what's the point
of having the m cast if you flunk it and
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, So that's not what's going on here. So they
are learners who are dyslexic, who can present some of
the best learning in the classroom September through and they
A B students. They are the stronger students when they demonstrate.
(12:45):
They're all speaking on performance assessment tasks. But when the
MCAST is given. One of the things that I think
people don't understand is test is design, specifically with the
distractor and the multiple Joy's question. So my dyslexic learners
can miss the word not and so if they know
(13:06):
the content, but it's the fine detail in the print.
The other thing that happens over and over again. You
have really strong science and MAP students. They manipulate the data,
they construct it, they use it in challenging and complex ways.
But the question asks them to write three paragraphs about
how they got their answer. If you're a dyslexic student,
(13:28):
that is not necessarily a strength. You're really good in science,
but that's not what you're being measured on. You're measured
on your ability to construct a well formulated, prescribed paragraph
that explains, So it's those students who are showing up
(13:50):
in our class, doing their work, getting good grades, who
will have the opportunity to get the diploma because they
didn't this one cast.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay, so what you're saying, no, I got now, so
what But to me, this is fine, you know, no,
but and I agree with you. I don't think you
should have the M cast at all. Well, okay, so
here's my point, Like, this is what I don't understand that.
This is what I don't understand is that you said
there are basically there are no options. There are no
(14:24):
allowances for kids with learning disabilities with the M cast.
That's what you're telling me.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well that's true.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, okay, I mean but that's okay, that's insane to me.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Vote I told I said that.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I said that. I said that at the opening of
the show.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But what I'm not I don't want to yell. I
just didn't hear the beginning of the show. Like you,
I had a long day and I happen to come
in at age fifteen, so I didn't hear you in
the beginning of the show. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
No, Yeah, I know we're arguing. I don't understand. But
to me, what I find frustrating is not your point
the question. I think that to me, the fact that
this question has to be asked, that if a kid
is a learning disability, that there is an allowance for
them with the m CAST. I thought that was already done.
I'm fortunate as a parrot my kids don't have learning disabilities.
(15:15):
K I would thank you very much. Okay, so I've
never had to deal with this. I'm shocked that a
kid with a learning disability does not receive an allowance
with the m CAST.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, I thank you for those sentiments. I will tell
you this, we have been trying legislatively for over a
decade to get this handled, and there are some who
have been at it for about fifteen years, and we
have not been able to get this addressed legislatively through
(15:51):
the Department of Education, and so we brought it to
the ballot. I will tell you that in the fall
we were able to get one hundred and seventy nine
signatures really easy. In the spring we had parents who
collected more than ten thousand on their own. I think
the other thing about this question that is really had
(16:13):
when I said educational equity that students who go to
private schools they don't have to pass the INCAST. I
work with educators who would remove their kids from the
public school system and send them to a private school
so that they didn't have to meet the mandates of
(16:34):
this one time test score to get a diploma.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And that's expensive, well.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
And that's the educational equity piece, right for your working
class family, they can't afford that, and so they're denied
that opportunity of equity because they can't afford to go
to a private school. I come from a family where
the learners. Some in the family we are dyslexic. And
(17:02):
the problem with passing a one time test like a
lot of times like they'll have the answer to the
question underneath the picture or at the bottom of the page,
and so it's about the ability. To me. Sometimes I
feel like we're asking a child who is color blind
to find the color purple on a page, and so
their disability is not accommodated with this one time test.
(17:27):
And so this really is about allowing students the opportunity
to get a high school diploma. I heard a story
last night a dad in Cambridge who lost tuition scholarships
to go to college because he couldn't pass the test,
he didn't get a diploma, and it literally destroyed his life.
(17:49):
I'll tell you one other, real quick one. You're going
to be seeing our commercial coming out. We have a
student in the commercial. She's been an ab student. She
did not pass the science poor as a ninth grader,
and so now as a sophomore, she can't take the
enrichment class. She has to take an extra science class
(18:09):
to teach her how to pass that test. People talk
about how this child who's now a young adult, has
like literally had their self confidence destroyed even though they've
been a strong academic student because they couldn't meet the
metrics of this one time science test.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Okay, but now, deb while I agree with you, did
this student have a learning disability?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Well, I so I did not have that student in
my classroom, but I can.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
This is what's confusing about it.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Very well be dyslexic, but I wouldn't know that.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay, but this wasn't in my classroom.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
But I can tell you that I had plenty of
students in my classroom who were dyslexic, who did not
demonstrate their true intellectual on a one time test.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Score.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That's fine, But this is why your cause is confusing.
You just told me about a young woman who didn't
pass a certain section of the MCST test, but you're
not and you're saying now that her life is ruined,
which I think is terrible. I'm not an MCST guy anyways,
but we don't know if she had a learning disability.
(19:23):
So to me, if you're saying the mcasts are bad
because it does not accommodate kids with learning disabilities, why
don't just go all the way, I mean, why even
have the why you even have the m test to
begin with.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Because first of all, I'm not the Commissioner of Education.
I'm just an educator who has left the classroom to
try to realign and do something about the palm that
we're seeing every year. So if somebody wants to bring
a ball a question next year that removes the mcast,
(20:03):
let's have a conversation. But that's not what this is about.
This is the mcast will be in place. We will
still have the standards. We have standards, base report cards,
we have lesson plans aligning to the standards. We have
the best standards uh in the country. Standards aren't going anywhere.
This is simply about providing educational equity for those students
(20:24):
who can't pass that one time event.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
All right, Dev McCarthy is our guest, She says, vote
yes on two which would get which would get rid
of the m cast passing score requirement to graduate. That's
the way I understand it, which pretty much says to me, yea, yeah,
passage score requirement to graduate. But yeah, all right, we're
going to clear this up in a minute. Passing score
(20:46):
to graduate four kids who suffer learning disabilities? Correct?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Correct, There is nothing in the language that says kids
who stuff learning dis So what you're saying, So.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
What you're saying if a kid flunks the m CAST,
they should still be able to graduate.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Am I saying that a student too flunks the m
CAST and meets all of the requirements ninth grade through twelve,
they meet all of the metrics, pass all of their classes. Yes,
I think they should be able to get based upon
their high school to POMA.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That's what I said at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We've got four years the English've got to do this
three years, go ahead. I'm missing something, that's the case.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
But if that's the case, what's the point of evening
at me.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why are you yelling at me? Because I'm not the
one who says you have to have the m CAST.
Who's don't yelling at me? I'm not I understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
But the point is is you came on. You came
on and you said that it should be what what
the what the situation says, if you flunk the m
cast and you have a learning disability, you should you're
allowed still to graduate. Now you're saying if you have
if you look at cash, That's what you said to
me at the top of the show. That's what you said.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Because I do believe that if you if you do
not pass the m CAST, I believe you should get
a high school diploma if you meet the metrics that
are in place.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So why even have it? So I don't even understand
this question.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I can't argue about why. I'm not the one who
has brought the m CAST forward as a state requirement.
It's a law. That's not me. I'm just trying to
provide equity to the students. And it's not just me.
This is thousands and thousands and thousands of parents and
educators and community activists like the support on this. We
(22:44):
can't even keep up with the signs because every time
we turn around and get another yes on tu signs,
they're gone. You can't keep up. People are really engaged
in this issue, and so it's this isn't a me thing.
This is a coalition of educators, parents and former students
(23:05):
who are asking that they be so much more than
a one time test score.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
So yes on two says thank you, just so, just
so I understand, because yes on two says, if you
flunk the m CASH you should still be able to graduate. Period.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
It says that if you meet the metrics, the course requirements.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And flunk the m CASH, you could still graduate, and you.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Do not pass a one time test score, you would
still get a diploma. Currently, you have students who do
everything that they need to do as freshmen, do everything
that they need to do with software right, do everything
that they need to do as juniors, and do everything
that they need to do as seniors, and then they
(23:53):
get the MCAST score and that some of these kids
are only four points off, some are six points.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
What if they what if they plug two sections of.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Oh no, you can pass two sections and only flunk
one and you still can't get the diploma.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
What I'm saying is if you if you.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Say three different tests, it's three different tests. It's not sections.
There's a math test, right, there's an e l A test,
and there's a science test. And so one of the
things that you see a lot is like really strong
science students who do really good on the science test, right,
and they do really good on the math test.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I understand they may not do.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So good on the e l A test. Yes, they
would be denied a diploma. They could be a straight
A math student, they could be a straight A science student.
But if writing was not their four K. Let's say
they were a dyslexic learner. Let's say they were a
student on an IP. Let's say they were a student
that had only been over here for two years and
(24:54):
hadn't mastered the English language. Even though they passed math,
even though they passed science, and even though they had
good grades, they could not get a diploma because they
didn't pass the English test.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
What if they flunk two out of the three?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Still no tests, Still no, no, don't make a difference.
You could have. We have a story of a kid
who was a class valedictorian in a sub class. He
had that pulled away from him because he didn't pass it.
So you have to pass it doesn't make a difference.
And that's what we're saying, is.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
No, I understand that, but you don't understand my question.
My question was if they flugged two three, if they
flunk two out of three, does that change your mind
at all? Like if they plugged two out of three,
would you be like, oh wow, they flugged two out
of three. That's a different story than flunking one out
of three.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So I'm here to talk about the question and what
the question does. And the question allows students to get
a high school diploma based upon their academic performance grades
nine through twelve.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Right, okay, thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I oh, thank you. It nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, it's nice to me too. That was extremely painful.
I agree with you, though it sounds like I didn't,
But I agree with you one hundred percent. I don't
see why we have the m cast at all. Thank
you very much. Deb. We appreciate the phone call. I
we appreciate you coming on. So that's what yes, and too,
I want some parents to call in on this, you know,
and what do you think? I mean, I think if
you have a good student and they flunked the M
cast in the tenth grade and they can't graduate, I
(26:27):
think that's dumb. And I don't think teachers like the
m cast either. It just puts more pressure on them.
All Right, Some calls on this coming up at six, one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
You know, I am such a hypocritic. Gary tanking way
for Dan Ray tonight. I said at the opening we
wanted to take calls. It talked to Deb McCarthy about
question two, which paraphrasing here, says, if you flunked the
M cast in the tenth grade, you can still graduate,
and I agreed with her, and I wanted to have
(27:05):
an intelligent conversation and I ended up yelling. So I
apologize because I got extremely confused on what her point
was though I agreed with it. And maybe it's on me,
but parents, what do you think of the M cast? Fortunately,
I've never really had to concern myself with it. I
was just not going to rob my producer, you know.
I always just thought it was a measuring device to
(27:28):
see how the school was doing, and that if I
really wasn't aware until we brought up this topic with
to have it on the show that if you did
not pass one of the elements of the m cast
in the tenth grade you couldn't graduate. That seems a
little harsh to me. Let's talk to Paul about this
and task at Paul. You're up on WBC's night set.
(27:49):
How's it going?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
How you doing?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
What's up?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Am I on?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You're on? All right?
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Hey? What's the percentage of people who don't pass? Anyone
have that?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It's a great question, and I should have asked her
on that cold check the old Google machine right now.
And while I do that, I'll ask you where do
you fall on this?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
I think that you gotta have some kind of way
of testing. You're going to make sure the teachers that
teach them well they should be teaching. I think that helps.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Why do you need that, though? I mean, listen, if
you have a principle, if you have the administration was
it was our educational system doing so crappy before that
that we needed the m CAST. I don't ever remember that,
And maybe I was just lucky because I had great teachers.
I went to a great school system. Now, I went
to a school system in Main, Paul that was not
(28:40):
you know, Lincoln, Massachusetts or Wellesley, where it had an
unbelievable tax base. We actually, come to think about it,
we had a get tax base because we had a
huge paper company that was like ninety five percent of
the tax base. But I went to a small school
in Mexico, Maine, and my teachers were great. I didn't.
I don't. I don't understand it. I mean, I don't.
(29:02):
I just don't get it. Like if you's, are the
MCST simply a way of administrators covering their ass you
know what I mean? I mean, if you have a principal,
you have an assistant principal, you have a board, you
have the school board. Can't they decide if the teachers
are doing a good job. Why do we need a
standardized test to tell us if they are or not?
I mean, Paul, can't you tell when you have a
(29:22):
good teacher or a bad teacher? Can't you? Why do
we need a test to tell us that? I never
understood it.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Well, they're actually teaching for the MCST, most of them probably.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I don't know if that's good. You know, Paul, I
don't know if that's good because if you're teaching, if
you're basically teaching kids to pass a test to keep
your job, that's not good because that means that you're
not customizing your academic program to the kids in your
class like I'm teaching it.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I'm they only teach English and English and the in that.
So what's the sense of taking your science classes? They
don't or history? No one knows anything about history. You
ask some people on the street something about history, who
was a certain president? They don't even know. So even
the standardized test of SAT is not even right. They
(30:14):
should have science and history, so I mean, you know,
you eliminate everything on that. So m cast are probably
showing that before you got out. Is they're trying to
round you up a get more round. Maybe I don't know.
I can't figure it out now.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I don't know, but I will tell you this, and
I appreciate the phone call. A lot of colleges dropping
SATs and standardized testing. You know, my kids are playing
for college SAT optional. Yeah, I mean my SAT scores sucked.
I didn't do. I mean, I think my combined score
is barely a thousand. I'm doing okay, I ain't grob
(30:49):
I did all right. You know it's look, folks, it
is about busting your ass and working hard. Okay, good
question by the collor Paul. One percent of the Massachusetts
students do not graduate from high school each year because
they did not pass the MCAST one percent. So it's
(31:11):
a seven hundred kids. Seven hundred kids is a lot
a Massachusetts student did not graduate from high school because
they didn't pass the MCAST. One percent is a small number.
It's a small percentage, but seven hundred sounds like a
large number to me. I don't know. That's just I
(31:33):
don't know how you guys study habits, keeping deadlines and
when I say reading, writing, arithmetic, of course I'm simplifying it.
I understand we have technology and computer sciences and the
way kids learn are different than they learned when I
was a kid, and so forth and so on. I
understand all that. Believe me, I get it. I mean, hell,
(31:55):
you got to teach AI in school. Now it's here, man,
it's here. How do you manage AI? How do you
deal with Ai? AI writes term papers for kids, which
that scares the hell out of me. It really does.
Kids not being able to write scares it's but they don't.
They don't have to write, you know. I think most
(32:20):
parents don't even think twice about the m CAST. If
your kid flugs, then you flip out. But I don't
think any of us think twice about it. They don't,
we don't. I've never seen the need for it. I
(32:41):
never have seen the need for it. And I've just
struck my shoulders. Okay, it's MCAST. Teachers have some days
off because you're taking the MCAST test. And believe me,
I am pro teacher. I am pro teacher. I think
we are very fortunate. My kids have had some fabulous teachers,
people that could have made a lot more money in
the private sector, and they choose to teach, and they
(33:04):
don't make the money that they would have made if
they had gone in the business, or gone into the
law school or mid school or what have you. And
I believe that the majority of teachers are good. I mean,
just like any other profession, you're gonna have some bad ags,
you're gonna have some bad apples. It's not gonna work out.
But I can't understand that if you're a teacher and
you've got the mcast looking over your shoulder. That's going
(33:27):
to kind of suck. It really does. I think it does,
and I think it was put in place to make
sure teachers do their job. Isn't that what the administration
is supposed to do? Isn't that what I'm paying taxes
for the administrators to do? Coming up at nine o'clock,
Chasing a true crime con man. This story is unbelievable.
(33:51):
It's a three part series streaming on Hulu, and we're
going to talk to the filmmaker Ben Selko about it.
That's all coming up at nine o'clock right here on
wb and Friday, Friday, nine o'clock, ten o'clock. Actually I
screwed this up. Ten o'clock. We have some special programming
for you. We have some special programming for you, and
(34:14):
I have more information on that coming up right here
on wbz's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio, Gary Tangway for
Dan Raid tonight, hanging out all this week.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
As I mentioned, tomorrow night, we have a special special
segment coming up at ten o'clock tomorrow evening. We will
break down the Karen Read story now Karen Reid is
in an interview that she recorded prior to the trial,
or around the trial, maybe prior to the trial. I
think for ABC is going to air tomorrow, so we're
(34:51):
going to do some analysis of it. That's all gonna
happen with Attorney's Bill Kick Him and Bob George tomorrow night,
right here at ten o'clock on W will you will
have seen what Karen has to say about the situation.
I assume there will be some new information and I
wonder if this and we'll also talk to our attorneys
(35:13):
on how this is gonna help her possibly with the
upcoming trial. Now here's the thing, Okay, if there's there's
gonna be a new jury selection for this retrial, and
they're gonna have to sit there and say, we did
not see this special with Karen Reid was talking to
ABC on twenty twenty about what went down in her opinion,
(35:34):
in her eyes, the way she remembers it, how you're
gonna pick a juror that won't see that, that's good
luck with that. So we're going to be doing a
little postgame analysis about that. I shouldn't say postgame analysis
because you know, a police officer died. We're gonna be
doing some post show analysis tomorrow night on the new
(35:55):
information we'll learn from the telecast, the broadcast of Karen
Reid on ABC with our attorneys Bob and Bill Bill
and Bob Bill kick him and Bob George right here
on WBC's Night Side. But just to wrap up again,
my thoughts on mcast is, I've just never understood why
we need him in the first place. We have to
(36:16):
trust our teachers. You have to give more support to teachers.
And again Deb McCarthy's joining us about voting us on
yes on two question two Mass ballot Question two, which
says to basically get rid of the MCAST passing score
as a requirement to graduate, Well, if you don't have
(36:37):
to pass it to graduate, I guess the point in
having it is to measure how the educational system is doing,
which is what I understood it to be in the
first place. But then if it became a gateway to graduation,
if you do not pass all three elements of the
MCAST in your sophomore year in high school, you will
(36:58):
not graduate. Plus it's the tenth grade. What happens if
you get your act together, your junior and senior year.
Shouldn't this be taking place their senior year and they
should have an opportunity to retake it again. I don't
understand that if you flunk the MCAST your sophomore year
(37:20):
you can't graduate two years from now or two and
a half years from now. That doesn't make any sense
to me at all. I know some teachers were not
in favor of this because it's sort of a watchdog
thing on them that if the MCST grades in their
school are down, it's going to make them look bad,
which I can understand that. I think teaching is hard enough.
Now you need somebody looking over your shoulder. It's hard,
(37:43):
I mean the educ Being an educator is really hard.
Being an administrator in education is really hard. It is
a thankless job. The people that do it and do
it well, you should receive a medal. You don't get
paid enough. I understand you have off I understand you
can get out of school at three. I understand all that,
(38:04):
but I also know that there's a lot of work
you have to do behind the scenes. The things that
I still don't understand for teachers is where you know,
when my kids were younger, they still buy supplies for
the school, or they'll come to us as parents and
they'll say, my god, I think I spent two hundred
dollars on markers and notebooks when I went to school.
(38:25):
That was a number two pencil and a notebook, and
that was it. Because the schools aren't supplying it and
the teachers can't afford to pay it on their own.
Like when a teacher has to go out and buy
school supplies, that I don't understand at all. You know what,
can the m cast take the money you would save
(38:45):
from Cannon the m cast and buy the school supplies
so the teacher or the parent doesn't have to buy it.
That's what I say. Chasing a True crime. Con Man
and Celko, who directed this film It's Something Else, joins
us next here WBC
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