September 29, 2025 • 40 mins
The latest MCAS test results were released, and it shows that Massachusetts students’ test scores are still below pre-pandemic levels. The results showed that high schoolers fared worse on the MCAS than grades 3-8. This was the first year that high schoolers took the test knowing that a passing MCAS score is no longer a graduation requirement…which may be playing a role in the results. What can be done to reverse course and get those tests scores back up? Should we be worried?
*We invited Pedro Martinez, the Commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, to join us. We are still awaiting an answer at the time of this publication*
*We invited Pedro Martinez, the Commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, to join us. We are still awaiting an answer at the time of this publication*
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's nice Sime with Danray, I'm telling you Boston's Beech video.
We're talking about more disappointing MCAST scores here in Massachusetts,
and it's really I think this is an important topic,
and I do not have the response that I would
like to see on this topic, which of course says
(00:22):
to me, maybe most of my listeners don't care about
this topic, which is fine, and I will give up
on this topic. But first we're going to talk to
Ken in Waltham. These scores are an indicator of where
we will be as a commonwealth ten years, twenty years
from now. I might not be here ten years or
(00:42):
twenty years from now, but I think it's important for
all of us to realize that if we're not educating
students in Massachusetts, well, there will be a price to
pay for all of us who choose to remain in Massachusetts.
If you can't make that connection, you're really not listening. Uh,
And I want to hear from you. What did you
(01:06):
do to help your kids be ready for school? Or
did you do nothing and they did fine anyway? Or
how do we take care of kids who come from
families that are somewhat less functional or dysfunctional and the
parents they're going into school, they're behind the eight ball
(01:29):
from the moment they walk in the door. Six seven,
two ten thirty six one seven nine three ten thirty
are the two numbers leving go to Ken and Waltham. Ken,
I appreciate you holding through the news.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You go right ahead, Ken, Dan, I heard something, so
this is anecdotal, but I thought it was very interesting. Sure,
when a friend told me that the traditional our traditional
public schools are as good as the charter schools. But
one of the major reasons why the outcome of our
(02:02):
students in charter schools are better are because just by
definition of parents have gotten their kids into charter schools,
they're more involved.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
But I understand that argument, but it seems to me
it's it's like saying the reason the Yankees might be
better than the Red Sox is they're paying the players
more money and they're getting better players. You know, I
just think that I'm a big fan of charter schools.
I will be honest with you, and that's not the
(02:32):
denigree public schools, but you know, charter schools or public
schools as well.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, understood, And just I think there are other examples too,
where parents can you know, be involved in their children's education,
just communicating with teachers and attending school events and even
you know, setting up a homework routine and that kind
of thing. And I didn't do Yeah, I didn't really
(02:58):
do anything specifically with the intent when my kids were little.
But we actually didn't have a TV in our house,
and we played a lot of board games, starting with
candy Land, and by the time, you know, we got
to like Parcheesi, where you know, they had to add
the dice together to figure out how many moves they had,
and these were things right, and then reading, you know,
(03:19):
playing Monopoly and reading the chance card and just by
definition they started to learn.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
That's a great way to do it. I I we had,
we did games and all of that. But but again
I I my kids at that point were ready to
read and and all that. I know that one of
the things that helped stimulate my mind. When I was
a young kid, my maternal grandfather, I used to play
(03:46):
checkers with him whenever we visited there. I mean I
looked forward to going to grandma and Grandpa's house so
I could try to learn checkers from my grandfather. We
never played chess. But we had some great checho battles.
But that that's what you're talking about. Plus just the
time that you, you and your wife interacted with your
kids with those board games. That's invaluable time that not
(04:08):
every kid gets right.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So one of my I remember a friend in college,
you know, I went to school in New York and
he was from New York City, where tenpin bowling is
a big thing, and he just said, that's how we
learned how to add, you know, as a little kid,
just keeping the score back in the day when you
actually did it on paper. It wasn't all automated.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
No, I totally.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Look, when I was a kid, I was big into
baseball cards and I because that's what my passion was.
And I learned how to do a lot of math
because I'd figure out batting averages and earned run averages,
and uh, I learned geography. I've said this before because
back in those days, you know, if you had an
(04:52):
ethnic name like Klazuski or Malzone. You know, Frank Malzone
was from the Bronx and Klazuski was from somewhere north
of the Mason Dixon line. But if you had initials
for a name. There was a catcher named J. C. Martin,
and you knew that if you had initials you were
from below the Mason Dixon line. Just little stuff like that.
(05:15):
And I wrote a piece for Newsweek magazine that My
Turn Calling back in nineteen eighty nine. It was the
easiest thousand dollars I ever made about the value of
baseball cards. Not the financial value, but I said it
was the intrinsic value of learning, you know, geography, and
learning sociology, and learning mathematics and just learning to read.
(05:36):
I mean those little cartoons in the back of the
baseball cards. You know. You know, Hank had twenty five
home runs last year by the All Star break, and no,
that was a little factoy that I didn't realize. And
you know, he ended up leading the league with fifty
home runs. That sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I hate to admit this, but I learned how
to use a slide rule by calculating my little league
batting average, which is probably why I became an engineer
in my baseball career. Didn't last.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Really little tends upon what your batting average was and
whether you were hitting line drives or pop ups.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
That was probably a factor too. One last I you know,
I did tune a little bit late, but it seemed,
you know, Massachusetts for a number of years, you know,
we were always high statewide. However, we're rated in our
education system, and it seemed like we became number one
when the mcast became a high stakes test and I
(06:33):
did vote to keep it that way, which overwhelmingly lost.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And I forget how overwhelming the vote was. Was it
that overwhelming?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I thought it was like seventy five twenty five or something.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
No, I think it was. I don't think it was
that much. I can go back and look at it,
I guess, but I'll look at it during the break.
The big one was the the question that authorized state
auditor to audit the legislature. I was considered a landside
and that was like seventy two. I'll get that during
the break, right. But look, we've gotten rid of the mcast,
(07:14):
and the scores are still going down, and they've not
even got back to where they were a pre pandemic,
pre COVID levels where states like Alabama and Louisiana their
levels are now passed where their students were pre COVID.
So we're losing ground to states like Louisiana and Alabama.
And that's not to denigrate Louisiana and Alabama, by the way.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, no, I was just going to point out.
I thought, you know, there's other ways maybe to have
MCAST be an important test and not as high stakes
as it was. But I just thought, you know, we're
we were catering to the bottom ten percent or so
who didn't pass the tests, who maybe academics wasn't going
(07:58):
to be that at the expense of the ninety percent
who I think, you know, by pushing them to pass
that test, I think is actually meaningful. So I really
thought we made a mistake in that in not keeping
an eye stakes test.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
By the way, it wasn't seventy five percent. My recollection
was a little better. It was fifty eight percent. Back
the campaign to and the use of the controversial standardized
test as a graduation requirement. You know, whenever in a
news story, by the way, and this was I'm reading
from a story on a competitive radio station, whenever they
(08:37):
interject the word controversial, that's an editorial comment disguised in
a news report. They voters on Tuesday approved Question two
with more than fifty eight percent backing the campaign to
end the use of the controversial Standardized Tests as a
graduation requirement. Look, if it's a question on on that
(09:03):
that's that's on a ballot, it probably is by definition controversial.
But whenever you you throw that, you know, the statements
that so and so made were controversial, that word shouldn't
be used in a news report. They just should have
said to end the use of the standardized test. You
don't have to say, you know, don't have to qualify it.
(09:26):
In my opinion as a journalist, but I'm kind of
old school.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Can Sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No I wish, I wish that were our biggest problems.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, I know, But but it that whenever you see
the word controversial, uh, you know, if it was a
newspaper that didn't like President Obama, uh, the the editorial
writers or whatever controversial you know, proposal by President Obama,
and if if if the Globe's writing something about what
what what uh Trump setter? Does president again engaged in
(10:02):
a in a in a high stakes controversy. Anyway, It's
just I just think that the word in news, if
you want to put it in an editorial, if you
want to put it in a an op ed piece
to make the point that you think that the thing
you're the issue you're talking about is controversial. I get it,
I get it, But to interject it into a news report,
(10:24):
I'm not sure that's a good journalists.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I think what I'm hearing is say, is, how do
you it's not controversial? Isn't really measurable?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Right, they object, I believe, and therefore it doesn't. And
I think that's a very fair point. Yeah, that's that's
very good.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay, thanks, you got me.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Change my mind on that.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Right, Thanks calculator, good night, bye bye bye. Okay, again,
I'm not thrilled with the response of the audience to
this issue. If you're bored by it, we'll go to
something else. But I want to hear from you. If
you don't think the scores of kids in Massachusetts or
(11:11):
in any state are not indicative of where that state
is headed, then you're not paying attention. So please pay
attention and give us a call six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
We will be right back on night side. This is
an important issue, and I know that some of you
are saying, I don't think it's important. Tell me an
(11:34):
issue that's more important than how our kids in grammar,
in elementary school, junior, high school, and high school. Tell
me what issue is more important? Realistically, there is no
more important issue than how are young people doing? How
our young people are doing academically, in my opinion, Back
on Nightside. You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
(11:57):
Boston's news radio. Next is Amula. Amula is in Holliston,
one of my favorite communities. Hi, Amula, how are you good?
Speaker 4 (12:07):
How are you doing engaging the audience on this topic,
very important topic?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, I really appreciate it. Thanks for calling. I don't
know if you've called my show before, but if this
is your first time, let me welcome you first time.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I'm I'm calling because I feel that kids today are battling,
you know, very different learning environments, right, I mean, teachers
are shorthanded. Kids are growing up in this environment where
(12:44):
technology has taken off exponentially, yet our curriculum has kept
It's still old in many ways, not much has changed.
We're still teaching about history, but we're not teaching kids
about you know, compounding interests. We're not teaching them about
car insurance. We're not teaching them about technology and AI
(13:05):
as much as it's grown. So I feel like our
kids are being held back in many ways.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Can I just jump Can I jump in? Because you've
made three points that I want to respond to real quickly.
One point you made was that teachers I think were short.
He ended if I'm not sure, is that what you said?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
So the classroom sizes in some schools are very big.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Well, let me if I can't. I just want to respond.
Number one. When I went to school a long time ago,
the sisters of Charity of Nazareth who instructed us at
Satan's School in Reedville, the class sizes were fifty and
there was one nun. Now find me a public school
(13:53):
where there's not a teacher and a teaching assistant in
the same classroom and the class size is probably twenty
to twenty two.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I agree with you, but and that's part of the
complexity that I'm mentioning. Sure that we have grown in
many many ways. So I agree. I grew up in
a class size very similar to yours.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
And then if I could just mention also, by the way,
and this is a little self serving, so you can
criticize me for being self serving. But last week we
talked to the president of Brandei's University, Arthur Levine. We
spent an hour with him last week and I can
find during the break I will find it was like
(14:36):
Wednesday night, and he talked about the very subject that
you just talked about, and spoke about the need to
restruct your curriculum at colleges at colleges. And we also
talked on Friday night with the founder and executive director
of an exciting program called Day of Ai, which in
(14:57):
which which intends to to teach teachers not only across
the country, but around the world how to teach the
concept of artificial intelligence. And if you haven't checked that
group out, go to DAYAIUSA dot org. They are teaching
(15:18):
teachers through zoom calls in conjunction with MIT. By the way,
and those are just two subjects that we talked about
last week right here on Nightside, And if you miss them,
you can go to Nightside and Demand and check them out.
I think you'd love those those two hours.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, they seem very interesting and I'll definitely check them out.
But you know, with those big class sizes. We socialized
right when you had fifty sixty students. We didn't have
a choice. We were able to socialize, We were able
to you know, have some outdoor times, we were able
to have some downtimes. Now nowadays, the kid's curriculum are
(16:00):
so packed at school because they want to get in
the technology component, they want to get in the educational component.
There are state you know, state and government matrix that
everybody has to hit the checkpoints on, and home economics
classes have completely been taken off the plate where the
kids used to unwire, you know, they used to socialize
(16:21):
in those classes, whether it was woodworking or a photo
or whatever, cooking, sewing, whatever that was. Those classes are
completely gone. And a second issue that faces our kids
is the IEP. So yes, you know, we spent hours
on IP. The parents spend hours. They have these team meetings,
(16:42):
they come up with these plans. But when there are
thirty kids in a class and you have seven or
eight bullet points, if there's several kids in a class
with seven or eight bullet points, the teachers are not
able to carry out those eight bullet points or twenty
bullet points that they've written down. Right, I'd rather that
they one or two and actually execute them. Then you know,
(17:04):
we spend hours creating these IP plans and failing these
kids that really need the support. What our school system
is also missing is oral testing, because not every child
with lexia and dysgraphia is going to be able to write.
So yes, they give them extra time on the test,
but they don't RECOGNI these are challenges that you can't
(17:26):
fix by having just extra time.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I totally agree with everything you've just said.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
And if the oral testing piece is missing, so there
are kids that get it and that can verbalize things,
but they just can't get it on a paper.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Do you know somewhere you talked about how that home
act and woodworking and shop. There was a period of
time where there was schools available and there still are
some of the trade schools, but that has been we've
looked down our nose at kids who had an interest.
And there was also sociological the idea of home mech
(18:02):
It was thought of, well, that was a course for girls,
but that put girls on their course to become housewives
and moms. And I think that from a sociological point
of view, we didn't value that as much as young
women going into you know, you know, the humanities or whatever.
(18:23):
And I think that you know, it's the different strokes
for different kids is so important. They're not all going
to go to college. As a matter of fact, for
a lot of them, it'd be better not to go
to college and really learn a good trade. There's a
lot of young young men and also now young women
who are becoming electricians and plumbers and h vac people,
(18:46):
which we need, uh. And they are always going to have,
you know, and they will always have employment. They will
never be unemployed because there's such a need for skilled people.
But I think we did for a while in this country.
Look down, you know your kids are not going to
Oh you know your kid's not going to college. Oh,
I'm so sorry to hear that. What's what's the wrong
(19:08):
with the kid not going to college if college isn't
for him or her right?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
And and trade schools are excellent. I mean, I have
a child in a vocational school that's an agriculture vocational schools.
Some glad schools like these exist absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And you know what else is no longer taught by
the way you talked about some of the things, and
they've downplayed you know, music appreciation, on appreciation. They no
longer teach coursive writing. Kids are coming out of high
school and they cannot write a letter.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
But the sad part they can't write a letter, but
yet they can't use the technology that exists today to
even do that. Yeah, so I don't They're in a limbo.
So we're taking this generation. I feel bad for this
generation because you know, they're they're not learning the old skills,
but they're also not learning the new skills.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So welcome, Amila. I'm past my break here from my
my news at the bottom of the arrow. But please,
when you go into Fisks General Store in Holliston, say
hi to my friend John Paultron area. And when you
go to the Superrette, make sure you get you know,
whatever you need in the superrette. I loved Holliston. We
lived in a in a town contiguous to Holliston. It's
(20:17):
one of the great towns. I'm just so sorry that
I think one of my Bertucci's closed. I went out
there a few months ago looking for Bertucci's and it's closed.
How long you've been how long you've been in Holliston, Amola?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Eleven ears eleven years?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Okay, well, we've been out of there about twenty now,
but it's a great community. It really is a great community.
Thank you for calling, and please become a more regular
caller here. I'll become a regular caller on Night's. I
loved your call.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Thank you, thank you, and thanks for that.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Take care ver, welcome taking a quick break here for news.
I got one line at six one, seven thirty and
one line at six one seven thirty. I hope you'll call.
I hope you're listening because there was so much in
some of these calls between Ken and Amoula, Lennai, Harvey, Silverglade,
(21:11):
Audrey and Tom. Invaluable callers, invaluable information. This has been
for me a really good program tonight. I hope you
feel the same way. If you don't tell me what
else you prefer to listen to one Nightside, we'll be
back on Nightside right after these messages and news at
(21:33):
the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's night Side with.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Well, one of my listeners, who's an acute listener, was
telling me that before the news my audio level was
down a little bit. So any of you who notice
that the the level between the callers and me are
now similar. It would be helpful if you if you
(22:04):
let us know that. In the meantime, let me go too. Uh.
Dave in San Antonio, Texas, Dave, welcome back. How are
you sir?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
How you doing?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Dan?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
You know what you and I agree here?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Hold on? If you and I agree one hundred percent here,
one of us better rethink our position. I'm only kidding, Dave.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, you know. I remember my wife, my daughter, she
she just sit her on her lap and read. No
phonics or anything like that. She just get the book
and read. And my daughter learned to read watching her
watch the words go by, and she was reading Huck
(22:48):
Finn And uh, who's the guy that wrote U.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Up in? Mark Mark Twain? Mark Twain. Rob just said,
beat me to it, Mark Train. By the way, i'm
getting a report here. The audio level is better, Rob.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, I'm hard here. So I got you on this.
I don't even know what I got showed by what
you call it because I need to hear.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, that's okay, I can hear you. You're fine, you
go right ahead. This was that's a different issue. But
we've already been told it's getting better. And if others
can let Rob know would appreciate it, because we want
to make sure that people aren't straining themselves to listen
to nightsis simple as that. So no, I don't care
(23:38):
how you do it. I think that you're right. The
greatest gift a parent or a grandparent can give to
a child is to read to them. I've watched my grandson.
He's three years old, and let me tell you, if
someone will take the time to read to him, he
will curl up next to them and you can see
he's listening. And we're talking. This is pretty elementary stuff.
We're we're talking about reading at the level of Mark Twain,
(24:01):
Huck Finn or anything like that. We're talking about, you know,
reading the books that that are for three years three
year old kids or four year old kids. And once
they get that momentum and they understand that letters, that
this means A and this is B and this is C,
and they learn the alphabet, then they can build words
(24:24):
and maybe it's just D O G dog. Okay, now
they've put those three words together, or those three letters
or at C A T, and then they're off to
the races. And then they put sentences together. And I
just think that that we got to somehow, somehow, some
way improve you know, not only in Texas and everywhere,
(24:50):
but also in Massachusetts. We have an advantage up here.
We have some great schools up here. Let's take advantage
of them.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, well, you know, I think it's more important about
the parents than it is actually the school. I think
when I when I went, when I went in Detroit. No,
he's in the third. I told you before. She had
a big newspaper route, and she had a I told
(25:18):
her how to play chess, and chess about the thing.
That most important thing that teaches you has how to think.
You learn to think a lot better playing chess.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
But all right, you also have to anticipate, which is
something that serves you well in sports. No, I mean
that's I happen to think. I happen to think that
the word anticipate is, if not the most important word
in the English language, a real understanding of it, it
is one of the most important. Whether it's in business.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
And she had that little business of hers set down
to them people that didn't pay. She had that mark
you're careful, and they've failed her twice. She did not
deliver the paper. No more, she had every business organ
guys her newspaper business all by herself. Third grade, the
teacher called me. The teacher called me, and I thought
(26:07):
I was in trouble. And he said to me, he said,
my wife's standing in the back of the room, and
I'm walk up and he says, how did you do it?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
All right? Good job, Dave. No more bragging. I gotta
let you go because I got a whole bunch of callers.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
What I'm saying is Dan is as advanced as my
kid was. They wanted to put her in high school,
and that was wrong. That was how bad. It reflects
on how bad they were educating kids. Got it, my kid,
I got it, could have been in high school.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
All right? Fair enough, Dave, I got pack lines here,
so I got to accommodate everybody. We'll talk soon. Okay,
Thank you, my friend, as always, Thank you much. Let
me go next to Mike and Plymouth. Mike, you were
next on Nightsiger right ahead.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I think you're asking for me.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Dan.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
It's Mick.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Mick, you know what, that's my fault. I misread it normally,
it's I'll blame this one's my fault. He's got Mike
up there, correctly, So my mistake, Mick. Welcome to nightside.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
Okay, great God. The old Rochester Regional School District in
southeastern Massachusetts is the towns of Marion, Mattapoiset, and Rochester,
and as news editor of the weekly newspaper The Wanderer,
I covered school committee for four and a half years
until about.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
A year ago.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
During that time, there was an awful lot of discussion
about mcast YEP, and it was considered by some school
committee members as being inherently racist, and therefore there was
a canyn across the whole state to.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Get rid of MCAST.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
And what they wound up achieving was what you know
that them cast is no longer the necessary hurdle to
get high school graduation. So so I think what I
gleaned from this through anecdotal comments was is did before
(28:11):
that happened. Teachers coached to the test, They taught, they
taught kids how to pass the m CAST. I think
the reason why m CAST scores have gone down in
not only because of COVID H and it did because
of COVID EL. Rochester's answer was to come back with
(28:33):
a strong emphasis on a on a full full all
grades reading program, and they neglected, They necessarily neglected math
and science and fell below state averages at some age levels.
They're starting to work on fixing that now, but they
but their big emphasis was on reading, and in the meantime,
(28:59):
the teachers, without the requirement of knowing that high school
graduation didn't depend on it, must have stopped coaching to
the test.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, well, two things, first of all, might make excuse me.
First of all, the teachers' unions fought against the MCAST tests. Okay,
so they whatever the result of getting rid of the
MCAST test, it was the teachers union that want to
get rid of it, which is sort of the point
that Harvey was making the other day the last hour.
(29:33):
I should say, however, reading is the is the first key.
How do you learn math or how do you learn
science if you read inadequately?
Speaker 6 (29:47):
Well that was our that's all Rochester's theory and emphasizing
reading coming out of COVID, That's what they did, and
that's where it's out there. Science and math suffered m
CAST wise, but their reading was was We're good with
them casts.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right. But what I'm saying, having criticized the Teachers' union,
I now want to turn around to defend the teachers' union.
It's still the primary obligation of the parents to help
their kids before they go to school, and while they're
in school. You've got to spend time with your kids
ahead of time, when they're three and four and five
(30:23):
years old, before they're going to school, and you've got
to spend their time with them to make sure their
homework is done. It's it's the parent's responsibility more so
than the school. And we have to get back to
that philosophy because it's not the state that cares most
about these kids. And when I say the state, i'm
talking about the institution of the schools and Massachusetts. The
(30:48):
parents you have to be. You have to be in
as a parent one hundred percent. And if the kid
does well, that's because a large part you've taken an
interest in the education. If they don't do well, that's
in large part the problem that that you have wrought
upon your own kid. And I know that's a controversial statement,
(31:09):
but I truly believe.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
That, well, it was obviously stressed by remote education, that
that part of it really suffered by the commentary that
I got through covering the school committee meetings. But school
Committee got behind the uh the abolition of m CAST
(31:32):
as a necessary hurdle for graduation, and so I don't
think the teachers coach to it anymore. And I think
that's why MCAST scores will never recover because they don't.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Well again, I.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Think you, I think you're you know, you're getting the
viewpoint from the school committee, which is influenced by the
teachers' union, And if you want to buy that viewpoint,
go right ahead. Okay, they are never gonna see it.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
I'm only reporting the viewpoint to you. I don't have
an opinion.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I don't have a horse in this race.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Do you have any kids?
Speaker 6 (32:04):
I'm just kind of trying to shed some.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Light on water. Hold up, do you have any kids?
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Nope?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
No? Do you pay taxes in the Commonwealth? Do you
intend to live here in the next twenty years?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I haven't. I will and I and I will.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, Well, you got a horse that you got some
horses in the race here, because if the kids who
are graduating from high school, you know, in the next
five years, in the last five years of falling behind
kids in other states, we got a problem. That's as
a state. That's all I'm trying to say, I'm not
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
I agree in that a guide.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I thank you for your time, Thank you very much,
make I appreciate it. Thank you. Take a break. Coming
right back on the night's side, join the conversation six
one seven.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
It's night Side with.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Now very really do I ask my audience for some help.
But I'm asking for some help here and it's got
nothing to do with the subject at hand. One of
my listeners, and several of my listeners have told me
that there was a difference between my microphone level and
the callers level. And what they said was that the
(33:18):
callers were coming through clearly and that my microphone was
below the level of the callers. So Rob has made
a simple adjustment simply, you know, just if you don't
have to be an audio technician to understand. But if
you feel that the audio you're getting from us is
better at these levels, please give Rob a quick call.
(33:38):
If you feel that it is out of whack and
then my level is now too hot, give him a
quick call. But I would appreciate that whatever you're hearing
the difference. What we want is the levels to be
the same. So I'm not overwhelming the callers, and I
don't want the callers to overwhelm me. He made an adjustment,
and a couple of people have already told me it
(34:00):
sounds better. If you're out there. Just give us a
call if you want to be on the air tonight
and talk about the disappointing Massachusetts scores high school scores
in science in high school and elementary school in science, math,
and reading at the fourth, eighth and tenth grade level.
(34:21):
We're in trouble in Massachusetts. You read about it in
the newspapers, and we've tried to talk about it. We've
had some really good calls tonight. Let me go next
to Brenda in Winchester. Brenda, thank you for calling in.
You're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Hi, Dan Bill. I love the show. This is the best.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Thank you, Thank you. I think it's very important. I
think it's very important, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
Well, you know, first of all, how many children go
home and walk through the door today and say, mom,
are you here? Well, that's it doesn't happen. How many
children sit at a table and have dinner with their family.
That doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
That's a factor.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
It doesn't happen. And how many people know that from
one to three, and once they get to three, you know,
if you're going to have a problem, you have to sit,
you have to read, you have to teach, and by
their age, by the way, And I understand that. And
(35:28):
my kids always ready, we read from the time they
were borne. And I just don't understand. I don't have
any problem with a woman having an education. I really don't.
But the children don't have parents at home anymore, and
that to me was one of the most important things
(35:48):
when my kids were growing up.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, and again you know, a dad, give me home.
I had a schedule which allowed me to spend a
lot of time at home. I was able. I had
a job where I could adjust my schedule of some
period of time. I work nights on the six and
eleven o'clock news, and then when my son got to
be about eight years old, I wanted to go and
so I could coach him in baseball and hockey, and
(36:11):
also my daughter in softball and hockey and things like that.
I worked the early morning shift and was getting up
at three o'clock mornings, so much to my chagrid for
eleven years. But yeah, the family is different. But that's
a sociological thing which we can probably never make it
go back to the way it was. And how do
we fix it for the kids who have the misfortune
(36:33):
of not being born when you and I were born,
of being born.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
To everyone had to solve the problem. They have to
know how to do those things. That's what my son
has taught my granddaughter. You have the problem solve and
she does fabulous in school. But I don't understand what
are these kids doing. They're wandering around, they have nobody
(36:57):
unless it is a nanny.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Are babies well, some of some of them spend too
much time watching TV. They spend too much time playing
games on computers as well, exactly, so there's a lot
of distractions if they were if they were spending time
in an after school program.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
The testing is bad. Look at Winchester. Winchester used to
be number one. The high school. That is so far
gone that Winchester has good schools. Bill Riquet has good
school okay, And but I don't know. I just think that, well, Brenda.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
We have to we have to get positive, and we
got to say, you know, we can bemoan the problem.
But I'm interested in I don't. I want to turn
things around for kids today. And I want kids who, however,
whatever circumstances they find themselves, if they're in a single
parent household, or if they're in a household where parents
are not as attentive, how do you make it fear
(37:56):
for that that cave, that's that child as well, simple
as that. And I'm not a bleeding heart. But I'm
not a bleeding heart, but in this one I care.
I care deeply. I need to get one more in
before my night is over. You got to call more often,
and I'll get you. Give you more time next time.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
I listen every night. I don't call very often, but
I listen every night.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Thanks Brenda, I know that, and I know Jackie who
this is. Thank you so much, Baba. All right, let
me go to Eileen. Eileen, you're gonna wrap it for
us here, go ahead, right, Eileen?
Speaker 7 (38:25):
Oh okay, Well, I was shocked when I read read
that article today and that Lexington was not you know,
uh in the high scoring group. They weren't even on
the list of.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Right. I know that you. I know that you lived
in Lexington, so I can understand that I'm looking at
the macro picture of Massachusetts. We have so many well
educated adults in the state and and we're now falling
behind places like Louisiana and Alabama. That's crazy.
Speaker 7 (39:02):
You're right. Well, I grew up in New York State,
and I believe the region's exams that I studied for
were very helpful to me. But we moved to Lexington
because of the schools and and uh to not see
(39:26):
them in the in the list of high scores today
was just shocking to me.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Well again, if you called late, so unfortunately I got
to jump off here because I'm flat out of time.
But I think that there's probably a lot of folks
in a lot of school districts who were disappointed these scores,
and we should be all disappointed in the scores from
a perspective of Massachusetts. Eileen has always loved your calls.
Thank you so much. Okay, we'll talk a great good
(39:56):
night you. We're done for the night, Rob Brooks, a
busy night for Rob works, great job. I was the
only one who screwed up a name. It it was Mick,
not Mike. That wasn't Rob's fault, that was my fault.
I want to thank Marita. I want to thank everyone
will call, particularly on the students scores and also the
folks who called on the segment about the folks living
near the Sagamore Bridge. I'll end there's always all dogs,
(40:18):
all cats, all pets go to heaven. That's my pal
Charlie raised the past fifteen years ago in February. That's
where all your pets are past. They loved you, you
love them. I do believe you'll see them again. Hope
to see you anymore. Night on Night I will be
on Facebook in about two or three minutes. Please join
me on Facebook Nightside with Dan Ray
It's nice Sime with Danray, I'm telling you Boston's Beech video.
We're talking about more disappointing MCAST scores here in Massachusetts,
and it's really I think this is an important topic,
and I do not have the response that I would
like to see on this topic, which of course says
(00:22):
to me, maybe most of my listeners don't care about
this topic, which is fine, and I will give up
on this topic. But first we're going to talk to
Ken in Waltham. These scores are an indicator of where
we will be as a commonwealth ten years, twenty years
from now. I might not be here ten years or
(00:42):
twenty years from now, but I think it's important for
all of us to realize that if we're not educating
students in Massachusetts, well, there will be a price to
pay for all of us who choose to remain in Massachusetts.
If you can't make that connection, you're really not listening. Uh,
And I want to hear from you. What did you
(01:06):
do to help your kids be ready for school? Or
did you do nothing and they did fine anyway? Or
how do we take care of kids who come from
families that are somewhat less functional or dysfunctional and the
parents they're going into school, they're behind the eight ball
(01:29):
from the moment they walk in the door. Six seven,
two ten thirty six one seven nine three ten thirty
are the two numbers leving go to Ken and Waltham. Ken,
I appreciate you holding through the news.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You go right ahead, Ken, Dan, I heard something, so
this is anecdotal, but I thought it was very interesting. Sure,
when a friend told me that the traditional our traditional
public schools are as good as the charter schools. But
one of the major reasons why the outcome of our
(02:02):
students in charter schools are better are because just by
definition of parents have gotten their kids into charter schools,
they're more involved.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
But I understand that argument, but it seems to me
it's it's like saying the reason the Yankees might be
better than the Red Sox is they're paying the players
more money and they're getting better players. You know, I
just think that I'm a big fan of charter schools.
I will be honest with you, and that's not the
(02:32):
denigree public schools, but you know, charter schools or public
schools as well.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, understood, And just I think there are other examples too,
where parents can you know, be involved in their children's education,
just communicating with teachers and attending school events and even
you know, setting up a homework routine and that kind
of thing. And I didn't do Yeah, I didn't really
(02:58):
do anything specifically with the intent when my kids were little.
But we actually didn't have a TV in our house,
and we played a lot of board games, starting with
candy Land, and by the time, you know, we got
to like Parcheesi, where you know, they had to add
the dice together to figure out how many moves they had,
and these were things right, and then reading, you know,
(03:19):
playing Monopoly and reading the chance card and just by
definition they started to learn.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
That's a great way to do it. I I we had,
we did games and all of that. But but again
I I my kids at that point were ready to
read and and all that. I know that one of
the things that helped stimulate my mind. When I was
a young kid, my maternal grandfather, I used to play
(03:46):
checkers with him whenever we visited there. I mean I
looked forward to going to grandma and Grandpa's house so
I could try to learn checkers from my grandfather. We
never played chess. But we had some great checho battles.
But that that's what you're talking about. Plus just the
time that you, you and your wife interacted with your
kids with those board games. That's invaluable time that not
(04:08):
every kid gets right.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So one of my I remember a friend in college,
you know, I went to school in New York and
he was from New York City, where tenpin bowling is
a big thing, and he just said, that's how we
learned how to add, you know, as a little kid,
just keeping the score back in the day when you
actually did it on paper. It wasn't all automated.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
No, I totally.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Look, when I was a kid, I was big into
baseball cards and I because that's what my passion was.
And I learned how to do a lot of math
because I'd figure out batting averages and earned run averages,
and uh, I learned geography. I've said this before because
back in those days, you know, if you had an
(04:52):
ethnic name like Klazuski or Malzone. You know, Frank Malzone
was from the Bronx and Klazuski was from somewhere north
of the Mason Dixon line. But if you had initials
for a name. There was a catcher named J. C. Martin,
and you knew that if you had initials you were
from below the Mason Dixon line. Just little stuff like that.
(05:15):
And I wrote a piece for Newsweek magazine that My
Turn Calling back in nineteen eighty nine. It was the
easiest thousand dollars I ever made about the value of
baseball cards. Not the financial value, but I said it
was the intrinsic value of learning, you know, geography, and
learning sociology, and learning mathematics and just learning to read.
(05:36):
I mean those little cartoons in the back of the
baseball cards. You know. You know, Hank had twenty five
home runs last year by the All Star break, and no,
that was a little factoy that I didn't realize. And
you know, he ended up leading the league with fifty
home runs. That sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I hate to admit this, but I learned how
to use a slide rule by calculating my little league
batting average, which is probably why I became an engineer
in my baseball career. Didn't last.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Really little tends upon what your batting average was and
whether you were hitting line drives or pop ups.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
That was probably a factor too. One last I you know,
I did tune a little bit late, but it seemed,
you know, Massachusetts for a number of years, you know,
we were always high statewide. However, we're rated in our
education system, and it seemed like we became number one
when the mcast became a high stakes test and I
(06:33):
did vote to keep it that way, which overwhelmingly lost.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And I forget how overwhelming the vote was. Was it
that overwhelming?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I thought it was like seventy five twenty five or something.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
No, I think it was. I don't think it was
that much. I can go back and look at it,
I guess, but I'll look at it during the break.
The big one was the the question that authorized state
auditor to audit the legislature. I was considered a landside
and that was like seventy two. I'll get that during
the break, right. But look, we've gotten rid of the mcast,
(07:14):
and the scores are still going down, and they've not
even got back to where they were a pre pandemic,
pre COVID levels where states like Alabama and Louisiana their
levels are now passed where their students were pre COVID.
So we're losing ground to states like Louisiana and Alabama.
And that's not to denigrate Louisiana and Alabama, by the way.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, no, I was just going to point out.
I thought, you know, there's other ways maybe to have
MCAST be an important test and not as high stakes
as it was. But I just thought, you know, we're
we were catering to the bottom ten percent or so
who didn't pass the tests, who maybe academics wasn't going
(07:58):
to be that at the expense of the ninety percent
who I think, you know, by pushing them to pass
that test, I think is actually meaningful. So I really
thought we made a mistake in that in not keeping
an eye stakes test.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
By the way, it wasn't seventy five percent. My recollection
was a little better. It was fifty eight percent. Back
the campaign to and the use of the controversial standardized
test as a graduation requirement. You know, whenever in a
news story, by the way, and this was I'm reading
from a story on a competitive radio station, whenever they
(08:37):
interject the word controversial, that's an editorial comment disguised in
a news report. They voters on Tuesday approved Question two
with more than fifty eight percent backing the campaign to
end the use of the controversial Standardized Tests as a
graduation requirement. Look, if it's a question on on that
(09:03):
that's that's on a ballot, it probably is by definition controversial.
But whenever you you throw that, you know, the statements
that so and so made were controversial, that word shouldn't
be used in a news report. They just should have
said to end the use of the standardized test. You
don't have to say, you know, don't have to qualify it.
(09:26):
In my opinion as a journalist, but I'm kind of
old school.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Can Sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
No I wish, I wish that were our biggest problems.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, I know, But but it that whenever you see
the word controversial, uh, you know, if it was a
newspaper that didn't like President Obama, uh, the the editorial
writers or whatever controversial you know, proposal by President Obama,
and if if if the Globe's writing something about what
what what uh Trump setter? Does president again engaged in
(10:02):
a in a in a high stakes controversy. Anyway, It's
just I just think that the word in news, if
you want to put it in an editorial, if you
want to put it in a an op ed piece
to make the point that you think that the thing
you're the issue you're talking about is controversial. I get it,
I get it, But to interject it into a news report,
(10:24):
I'm not sure that's a good journalists.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I think what I'm hearing is say, is, how do
you it's not controversial? Isn't really measurable?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Right, they object, I believe, and therefore it doesn't. And
I think that's a very fair point. Yeah, that's that's
very good.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay, thanks, you got me.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Change my mind on that.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Right, Thanks calculator, good night, bye bye bye. Okay, again,
I'm not thrilled with the response of the audience to
this issue. If you're bored by it, we'll go to
something else. But I want to hear from you. If
you don't think the scores of kids in Massachusetts or
(11:11):
in any state are not indicative of where that state
is headed, then you're not paying attention. So please pay
attention and give us a call six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
We will be right back on night side. This is
an important issue, and I know that some of you
are saying, I don't think it's important. Tell me an
(11:34):
issue that's more important than how our kids in grammar,
in elementary school, junior, high school, and high school. Tell
me what issue is more important? Realistically, there is no
more important issue than how are young people doing? How
our young people are doing academically, in my opinion, Back
on Nightside. You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
(11:57):
Boston's news radio. Next is Amula. Amula is in Holliston,
one of my favorite communities. Hi, Amula, how are you good?
Speaker 4 (12:07):
How are you doing engaging the audience on this topic,
very important topic?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, I really appreciate it. Thanks for calling. I don't
know if you've called my show before, but if this
is your first time, let me welcome you first time.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I'm I'm calling because I feel that kids today are battling,
you know, very different learning environments, right, I mean, teachers
are shorthanded. Kids are growing up in this environment where
(12:44):
technology has taken off exponentially, yet our curriculum has kept
It's still old in many ways, not much has changed.
We're still teaching about history, but we're not teaching kids
about you know, compounding interests. We're not teaching them about
car insurance. We're not teaching them about technology and AI
(13:05):
as much as it's grown. So I feel like our
kids are being held back in many ways.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Can I just jump Can I jump in? Because you've
made three points that I want to respond to real quickly.
One point you made was that teachers I think were short.
He ended if I'm not sure, is that what you said?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
So the classroom sizes in some schools are very big.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Well, let me if I can't. I just want to respond.
Number one. When I went to school a long time ago,
the sisters of Charity of Nazareth who instructed us at
Satan's School in Reedville, the class sizes were fifty and
there was one nun. Now find me a public school
(13:53):
where there's not a teacher and a teaching assistant in
the same classroom and the class size is probably twenty
to twenty two.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I agree with you, but and that's part of the
complexity that I'm mentioning. Sure that we have grown in
many many ways. So I agree. I grew up in
a class size very similar to yours.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
And then if I could just mention also, by the way,
and this is a little self serving, so you can
criticize me for being self serving. But last week we
talked to the president of Brandei's University, Arthur Levine. We
spent an hour with him last week and I can
find during the break I will find it was like
(14:36):
Wednesday night, and he talked about the very subject that
you just talked about, and spoke about the need to
restruct your curriculum at colleges at colleges. And we also
talked on Friday night with the founder and executive director
of an exciting program called Day of Ai, which in
(14:57):
which which intends to to teach teachers not only across
the country, but around the world how to teach the
concept of artificial intelligence. And if you haven't checked that
group out, go to DAYAIUSA dot org. They are teaching
(15:18):
teachers through zoom calls in conjunction with MIT. By the way,
and those are just two subjects that we talked about
last week right here on Nightside, And if you miss them,
you can go to Nightside and Demand and check them out.
I think you'd love those those two hours.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, they seem very interesting and I'll definitely check them out.
But you know, with those big class sizes. We socialized
right when you had fifty sixty students. We didn't have
a choice. We were able to socialize, We were able
to you know, have some outdoor times, we were able
to have some downtimes. Now nowadays, the kid's curriculum are
(16:00):
so packed at school because they want to get in
the technology component, they want to get in the educational component.
There are state you know, state and government matrix that
everybody has to hit the checkpoints on, and home economics
classes have completely been taken off the plate where the
kids used to unwire, you know, they used to socialize
(16:21):
in those classes, whether it was woodworking or a photo
or whatever, cooking, sewing, whatever that was. Those classes are
completely gone. And a second issue that faces our kids
is the IEP. So yes, you know, we spent hours
on IP. The parents spend hours. They have these team meetings,
(16:42):
they come up with these plans. But when there are
thirty kids in a class and you have seven or
eight bullet points, if there's several kids in a class
with seven or eight bullet points, the teachers are not
able to carry out those eight bullet points or twenty
bullet points that they've written down. Right, I'd rather that
they one or two and actually execute them. Then you know,
(17:04):
we spend hours creating these IP plans and failing these
kids that really need the support. What our school system
is also missing is oral testing, because not every child
with lexia and dysgraphia is going to be able to write.
So yes, they give them extra time on the test,
but they don't RECOGNI these are challenges that you can't
(17:26):
fix by having just extra time.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I totally agree with everything you've just said.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
And if the oral testing piece is missing, so there
are kids that get it and that can verbalize things,
but they just can't get it on a paper.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Do you know somewhere you talked about how that home
act and woodworking and shop. There was a period of
time where there was schools available and there still are
some of the trade schools, but that has been we've
looked down our nose at kids who had an interest.
And there was also sociological the idea of home mech
(18:02):
It was thought of, well, that was a course for girls,
but that put girls on their course to become housewives
and moms. And I think that from a sociological point
of view, we didn't value that as much as young
women going into you know, you know, the humanities or whatever.
(18:23):
And I think that you know, it's the different strokes
for different kids is so important. They're not all going
to go to college. As a matter of fact, for
a lot of them, it'd be better not to go
to college and really learn a good trade. There's a
lot of young young men and also now young women
who are becoming electricians and plumbers and h vac people,
(18:46):
which we need, uh. And they are always going to have,
you know, and they will always have employment. They will
never be unemployed because there's such a need for skilled people.
But I think we did for a while in this country.
Look down, you know your kids are not going to
Oh you know your kid's not going to college. Oh,
I'm so sorry to hear that. What's what's the wrong
(19:08):
with the kid not going to college if college isn't
for him or her right?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
And and trade schools are excellent. I mean, I have
a child in a vocational school that's an agriculture vocational schools.
Some glad schools like these exist absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And you know what else is no longer taught by
the way you talked about some of the things, and
they've downplayed you know, music appreciation, on appreciation. They no
longer teach coursive writing. Kids are coming out of high
school and they cannot write a letter.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
But the sad part they can't write a letter, but
yet they can't use the technology that exists today to
even do that. Yeah, so I don't They're in a limbo.
So we're taking this generation. I feel bad for this
generation because you know, they're they're not learning the old skills,
but they're also not learning the new skills.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So welcome, Amila. I'm past my break here from my
my news at the bottom of the arrow. But please,
when you go into Fisks General Store in Holliston, say
hi to my friend John Paultron area. And when you
go to the Superrette, make sure you get you know,
whatever you need in the superrette. I loved Holliston. We
lived in a in a town contiguous to Holliston. It's
(20:17):
one of the great towns. I'm just so sorry that
I think one of my Bertucci's closed. I went out
there a few months ago looking for Bertucci's and it's closed.
How long you've been how long you've been in Holliston, Amola?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Eleven ears eleven years?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Okay, well, we've been out of there about twenty now,
but it's a great community. It really is a great community.
Thank you for calling, and please become a more regular
caller here. I'll become a regular caller on Night's. I
loved your call.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Thank you, thank you, and thanks for that.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Take care ver, welcome taking a quick break here for news.
I got one line at six one, seven thirty and
one line at six one seven thirty. I hope you'll call.
I hope you're listening because there was so much in
some of these calls between Ken and Amoula, Lennai, Harvey, Silverglade,
(21:11):
Audrey and Tom. Invaluable callers, invaluable information. This has been
for me a really good program tonight. I hope you
feel the same way. If you don't tell me what
else you prefer to listen to one Nightside, we'll be
back on Nightside right after these messages and news at
(21:33):
the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's night Side with.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Well, one of my listeners, who's an acute listener, was
telling me that before the news my audio level was
down a little bit. So any of you who notice
that the the level between the callers and me are
now similar. It would be helpful if you if you
(22:04):
let us know that. In the meantime, let me go too. Uh.
Dave in San Antonio, Texas, Dave, welcome back. How are
you sir?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
How you doing?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Dan?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
You know what you and I agree here?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Hold on? If you and I agree one hundred percent here,
one of us better rethink our position. I'm only kidding, Dave.
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, you know. I remember my wife, my daughter, she
she just sit her on her lap and read. No
phonics or anything like that. She just get the book
and read. And my daughter learned to read watching her
watch the words go by, and she was reading Huck
(22:48):
Finn And uh, who's the guy that wrote U.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Up in? Mark Mark Twain? Mark Twain. Rob just said,
beat me to it, Mark Train. By the way, i'm
getting a report here. The audio level is better, Rob.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, I'm hard here. So I got you on this.
I don't even know what I got showed by what
you call it because I need to hear.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, that's okay, I can hear you. You're fine, you
go right ahead. This was that's a different issue. But
we've already been told it's getting better. And if others
can let Rob know would appreciate it, because we want
to make sure that people aren't straining themselves to listen
to nightsis simple as that. So no, I don't care
(23:38):
how you do it. I think that you're right. The
greatest gift a parent or a grandparent can give to
a child is to read to them. I've watched my grandson.
He's three years old, and let me tell you, if
someone will take the time to read to him, he
will curl up next to them and you can see
he's listening. And we're talking. This is pretty elementary stuff.
We're we're talking about reading at the level of Mark Twain,
(24:01):
Huck Finn or anything like that. We're talking about, you know,
reading the books that that are for three years three
year old kids or four year old kids. And once
they get that momentum and they understand that letters, that
this means A and this is B and this is C,
and they learn the alphabet, then they can build words
(24:24):
and maybe it's just D O G dog. Okay, now
they've put those three words together, or those three letters
or at C A T, and then they're off to
the races. And then they put sentences together. And I
just think that that we got to somehow, somehow, some
way improve you know, not only in Texas and everywhere,
(24:50):
but also in Massachusetts. We have an advantage up here.
We have some great schools up here. Let's take advantage
of them.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, well, you know, I think it's more important about
the parents than it is actually the school. I think
when I when I went, when I went in Detroit. No,
he's in the third. I told you before. She had
a big newspaper route, and she had a I told
(25:18):
her how to play chess, and chess about the thing.
That most important thing that teaches you has how to think.
You learn to think a lot better playing chess.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
But all right, you also have to anticipate, which is
something that serves you well in sports. No, I mean
that's I happen to think. I happen to think that
the word anticipate is, if not the most important word
in the English language, a real understanding of it, it
is one of the most important. Whether it's in business.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
And she had that little business of hers set down
to them people that didn't pay. She had that mark
you're careful, and they've failed her twice. She did not
deliver the paper. No more, she had every business organ
guys her newspaper business all by herself. Third grade, the
teacher called me. The teacher called me, and I thought
(26:07):
I was in trouble. And he said to me, he said,
my wife's standing in the back of the room, and
I'm walk up and he says, how did you do it?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
All right? Good job, Dave. No more bragging. I gotta
let you go because I got a whole bunch of callers.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
What I'm saying is Dan is as advanced as my
kid was. They wanted to put her in high school,
and that was wrong. That was how bad. It reflects
on how bad they were educating kids. Got it, my kid,
I got it, could have been in high school.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
All right? Fair enough, Dave, I got pack lines here,
so I got to accommodate everybody. We'll talk soon. Okay,
Thank you, my friend, as always, Thank you much. Let
me go next to Mike and Plymouth. Mike, you were
next on Nightsiger right ahead.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I think you're asking for me.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Dan.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
It's Mick.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Mick, you know what, that's my fault. I misread it normally,
it's I'll blame this one's my fault. He's got Mike
up there, correctly, So my mistake, Mick. Welcome to nightside.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
Okay, great God. The old Rochester Regional School District in
southeastern Massachusetts is the towns of Marion, Mattapoiset, and Rochester,
and as news editor of the weekly newspaper The Wanderer,
I covered school committee for four and a half years
until about.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
A year ago.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
During that time, there was an awful lot of discussion
about mcast YEP, and it was considered by some school
committee members as being inherently racist, and therefore there was
a canyn across the whole state to.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Get rid of MCAST.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
And what they wound up achieving was what you know
that them cast is no longer the necessary hurdle to
get high school graduation. So so I think what I
gleaned from this through anecdotal comments was is did before
(28:11):
that happened. Teachers coached to the test, They taught, they
taught kids how to pass the m CAST. I think
the reason why m CAST scores have gone down in
not only because of COVID H and it did because
of COVID EL. Rochester's answer was to come back with
(28:33):
a strong emphasis on a on a full full all
grades reading program, and they neglected, They necessarily neglected math
and science and fell below state averages at some age levels.
They're starting to work on fixing that now, but they
but their big emphasis was on reading, and in the meantime,
(28:59):
the teachers, without the requirement of knowing that high school
graduation didn't depend on it, must have stopped coaching to
the test.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, well, two things, first of all, might make excuse me.
First of all, the teachers' unions fought against the MCAST tests. Okay,
so they whatever the result of getting rid of the
MCAST test, it was the teachers union that want to
get rid of it, which is sort of the point
that Harvey was making the other day the last hour.
(29:33):
I should say, however, reading is the is the first key.
How do you learn math or how do you learn
science if you read inadequately?
Speaker 6 (29:47):
Well that was our that's all Rochester's theory and emphasizing
reading coming out of COVID, That's what they did, and
that's where it's out there. Science and math suffered m
CAST wise, but their reading was was We're good with
them casts.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right. But what I'm saying, having criticized the Teachers' union,
I now want to turn around to defend the teachers' union.
It's still the primary obligation of the parents to help
their kids before they go to school, and while they're
in school. You've got to spend time with your kids
ahead of time, when they're three and four and five
(30:23):
years old, before they're going to school, and you've got
to spend their time with them to make sure their
homework is done. It's it's the parent's responsibility more so
than the school. And we have to get back to
that philosophy because it's not the state that cares most
about these kids. And when I say the state, i'm
talking about the institution of the schools and Massachusetts. The
(30:48):
parents you have to be. You have to be in
as a parent one hundred percent. And if the kid
does well, that's because a large part you've taken an
interest in the education. If they don't do well, that's
in large part the problem that that you have wrought
upon your own kid. And I know that's a controversial statement,
(31:09):
but I truly believe.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
That, well, it was obviously stressed by remote education, that
that part of it really suffered by the commentary that
I got through covering the school committee meetings. But school
Committee got behind the uh the abolition of m CAST
(31:32):
as a necessary hurdle for graduation, and so I don't
think the teachers coach to it anymore. And I think
that's why MCAST scores will never recover because they don't.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Well again, I.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Think you, I think you're you know, you're getting the
viewpoint from the school committee, which is influenced by the
teachers' union, And if you want to buy that viewpoint,
go right ahead. Okay, they are never gonna see it.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
I'm only reporting the viewpoint to you. I don't have
an opinion.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I don't have a horse in this race.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Do you have any kids?
Speaker 6 (32:04):
I'm just kind of trying to shed some.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Light on water. Hold up, do you have any kids?
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Nope?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
No? Do you pay taxes in the Commonwealth? Do you
intend to live here in the next twenty years?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I haven't. I will and I and I will.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, Well, you got a horse that you got some
horses in the race here, because if the kids who
are graduating from high school, you know, in the next
five years, in the last five years of falling behind
kids in other states, we got a problem. That's as
a state. That's all I'm trying to say, I'm not
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
I agree in that a guide.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I thank you for your time, Thank you very much,
make I appreciate it. Thank you. Take a break. Coming
right back on the night's side, join the conversation six
one seven.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
It's night Side with.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Now very really do I ask my audience for some help.
But I'm asking for some help here and it's got
nothing to do with the subject at hand. One of
my listeners, and several of my listeners have told me
that there was a difference between my microphone level and
the callers level. And what they said was that the
(33:18):
callers were coming through clearly and that my microphone was
below the level of the callers. So Rob has made
a simple adjustment simply, you know, just if you don't
have to be an audio technician to understand. But if
you feel that the audio you're getting from us is
better at these levels, please give Rob a quick call.
(33:38):
If you feel that it is out of whack and
then my level is now too hot, give him a
quick call. But I would appreciate that whatever you're hearing
the difference. What we want is the levels to be
the same. So I'm not overwhelming the callers, and I
don't want the callers to overwhelm me. He made an adjustment,
and a couple of people have already told me it
(34:00):
sounds better. If you're out there. Just give us a
call if you want to be on the air tonight
and talk about the disappointing Massachusetts scores high school scores
in science in high school and elementary school in science, math,
and reading at the fourth, eighth and tenth grade level.
(34:21):
We're in trouble in Massachusetts. You read about it in
the newspapers, and we've tried to talk about it. We've
had some really good calls tonight. Let me go next
to Brenda in Winchester. Brenda, thank you for calling in.
You're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Hi, Dan Bill. I love the show. This is the best.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Thank you, Thank you. I think it's very important. I
think it's very important, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
Well, you know, first of all, how many children go
home and walk through the door today and say, mom,
are you here? Well, that's it doesn't happen. How many
children sit at a table and have dinner with their family.
That doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
That's a factor.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
It doesn't happen. And how many people know that from
one to three, and once they get to three, you know,
if you're going to have a problem, you have to sit,
you have to read, you have to teach, and by
their age, by the way, And I understand that. And
(35:28):
my kids always ready, we read from the time they
were borne. And I just don't understand. I don't have
any problem with a woman having an education. I really don't.
But the children don't have parents at home anymore, and
that to me was one of the most important things
(35:48):
when my kids were growing up.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, and again you know, a dad, give me home.
I had a schedule which allowed me to spend a
lot of time at home. I was able. I had
a job where I could adjust my schedule of some
period of time. I work nights on the six and
eleven o'clock news, and then when my son got to
be about eight years old, I wanted to go and
so I could coach him in baseball and hockey, and
(36:11):
also my daughter in softball and hockey and things like that.
I worked the early morning shift and was getting up
at three o'clock mornings, so much to my chagrid for
eleven years. But yeah, the family is different. But that's
a sociological thing which we can probably never make it
go back to the way it was. And how do
we fix it for the kids who have the misfortune
(36:33):
of not being born when you and I were born,
of being born.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
To everyone had to solve the problem. They have to
know how to do those things. That's what my son
has taught my granddaughter. You have the problem solve and
she does fabulous in school. But I don't understand what
are these kids doing. They're wandering around, they have nobody
(36:57):
unless it is a nanny.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Are babies well, some of some of them spend too
much time watching TV. They spend too much time playing
games on computers as well, exactly, so there's a lot
of distractions if they were if they were spending time
in an after school program.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
The testing is bad. Look at Winchester. Winchester used to
be number one. The high school. That is so far
gone that Winchester has good schools. Bill Riquet has good
school okay, And but I don't know. I just think that, well, Brenda.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
We have to we have to get positive, and we
got to say, you know, we can bemoan the problem.
But I'm interested in I don't. I want to turn
things around for kids today. And I want kids who, however,
whatever circumstances they find themselves, if they're in a single
parent household, or if they're in a household where parents
are not as attentive, how do you make it fear
(37:56):
for that that cave, that's that child as well, simple
as that. And I'm not a bleeding heart. But I'm
not a bleeding heart, but in this one I care.
I care deeply. I need to get one more in
before my night is over. You got to call more often,
and I'll get you. Give you more time next time.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
I listen every night. I don't call very often, but
I listen every night.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Thanks Brenda, I know that, and I know Jackie who
this is. Thank you so much, Baba. All right, let
me go to Eileen. Eileen, you're gonna wrap it for
us here, go ahead, right, Eileen?
Speaker 7 (38:25):
Oh okay, Well, I was shocked when I read read
that article today and that Lexington was not you know,
uh in the high scoring group. They weren't even on
the list of.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Right. I know that you. I know that you lived
in Lexington, so I can understand that I'm looking at
the macro picture of Massachusetts. We have so many well
educated adults in the state and and we're now falling
behind places like Louisiana and Alabama. That's crazy.
Speaker 7 (39:02):
You're right. Well, I grew up in New York State,
and I believe the region's exams that I studied for
were very helpful to me. But we moved to Lexington
because of the schools and and uh to not see
(39:26):
them in the in the list of high scores today
was just shocking to me.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Well again, if you called late, so unfortunately I got
to jump off here because I'm flat out of time.
But I think that there's probably a lot of folks
in a lot of school districts who were disappointed these scores,
and we should be all disappointed in the scores from
a perspective of Massachusetts. Eileen has always loved your calls.
Thank you so much. Okay, we'll talk a great good
(39:56):
night you. We're done for the night, Rob Brooks, a
busy night for Rob works, great job. I was the
only one who screwed up a name. It it was Mick,
not Mike. That wasn't Rob's fault, that was my fault.
I want to thank Marita. I want to thank everyone
will call, particularly on the students scores and also the
folks who called on the segment about the folks living
near the Sagamore Bridge. I'll end there's always all dogs,
(40:18):
all cats, all pets go to heaven. That's my pal
Charlie raised the past fifteen years ago in February. That's
where all your pets are past. They loved you, you
love them. I do believe you'll see them again. Hope
to see you anymore. Night on Night I will be
on Facebook in about two or three minutes. Please join
me on Facebook Nightside with Dan Ray
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