December 3, 2025 • 40 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Graduation Framework Recommends New High School Tests
Guest: Sam Drysdale – State House News Reporter
Why Customer Service Is Designed NOT To Serve Customers! The real reasons behind long hold times, dead-end chatbots & disempowered agents.
Guest: Amas Tenumah - MBA, author of the new book, HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service, is a former customer service executive
Is online shopping a recipe for identity theft? How consumers can stay protected.
Guest: Michael Bruemmer - VP of Global Data Breach Resolution at Experian
Is 12 Too Young For A Cell Phone? New study published in the peer-reviewed journal, Pediatrics found that kids with a smartphone by age 12 face an increased risk of developing depression, sleep problems and obesity.
Guest: Dr. Catherine Athans – psychologist & author
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice. Eye's Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, everybody, welcome on into a Wednesday, a Wednesday
evening edition of Nightside. It is December third, and there's
snow on the ground and it is going to get cold.
So buckle up, button up, and take those gloves and
scarce the work or whatever wherever you are. If you're
in a car, you hope you're nice and warm. Got
(00:26):
that heater working well? Sometimes when I was young, you
have a car, the heater didn't work. That was tough
in like December January February. So with that all said,
I will tell you that I am indeed Dan Ray,
the host of Nightside. We are here every Monday through
Friday night from eight until midnight. We are still accepting
people who would like to participate in the charity, the
(00:47):
annual the thirteenth Annual Nightside Charity Combine. We'll talk about
that a little more later on, but if you want
to get my email and you'd like to participate as
the leader of a charity, we'll give you some free
radio time on Tuesday, the twenty third of December. That'll
be the last hour or two of the show. On
(01:08):
that night and we have we only have a few
spots left, but I want what will happen is people
will be sending me emails on the eighteenthro still room. No,
there will be no room. So again, if you are
someone who heads a charity, great, If you're somebody who
works with the charity, talk to the leader of the
(01:28):
charity and I have them send me an email and
just call in and Rob will give you my email.
It's Dan Ray Da n r E at iHeartMedia dot com.
It's a very important program for me personally and for
WVZ and certainly for the night side audience. Let us
begin tonight. We are going to talk about a controversy
up at the State House with Sam Drysdale, state House
(01:52):
News reporter. She does a great job. Graduation framework work
has been recommended for new high school tests that sent
down the spine of the teachers union. For some reason,
we got rid of m casts, which I think was
a huge mistake. Sam, Welcome back tonight, Satt. How are
you tonight?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Dan?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
How are you? Thanks for having me?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I'm doing great well. I make these sort of editorial
comments because I just can't help myself. But why did
you give us the straight scoop as a State House
news reporter as to what's going on the last few days.
This framework was recommended, i believe by the governor and
the state Secretary of Education, and it was not well
(02:35):
received universally.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah. So, after voters last year decided to decouple the
m CAST from graduation requirements, meaning students don't need to
pass that standardized test anymore in order to graduate with
a Massachusetts diploma, the state has needed to come up
with new standardized requirements and that's been a process over
(02:59):
the last year and they just came out with their
draft recommendations this week. They're they're not the final recommendations.
Those will be coming next summer, but this is the
first look at what the governor and her Secretary of Education,
Patrick Tutwiler, has in store for students. And those include
new exams, so not the MCAST, but what they're calling
(03:22):
end of course assessments, so taken at the end of
you know, your standard high school high school courses algebra, Biology, English,
to test whether students have learned everything they need to
learn in that class. And that is going to be
coupled with other ways to prove mastery in high school,
(03:44):
so capstones, portfolios, that sort of thing, and the assessments
will be graded by the state, and the capstones and
portfolios and projects those will be graded locally, which the
state sees as a sort of copies. But the teachers
union who the Massachusetts Teachers Association specifically, they led the
(04:08):
charge to remove the past from graduation standards. And even
though they sit on the council that helped put forward
these recommendations, they're they're not happy to see that testing
is back back in front of students to help determine
whether or not they're going to graduate.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, well, give us again seeing the euphemism. I love euphemisms,
the euphemism that is being used that they don't use
the word test. What was the phrase you use? I
should have written it down.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yes, it's end of course assessments, end.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Of course assessment. Yeah. I hope that that part of
that is an explanation of the word euphemism, because that's
what it is. Uh. I mean, it's like when you
when you check out of the you know, a hotel
after a weekend. Uh, would you would you like to
total up your your your charges as opposed to here's
(05:08):
your bill? How are you going to pay it?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's crazy. So so the teachers Union is going to
fight like tooth and nails, Uh, tooth and nail and
and and all the poor high school kids. Uh, they'll
they'll be confused. And what is a end of course assessment?
I mean it's it's it's a test. It's you could
(05:34):
call it whatever you want, but.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Yep, it's it's a test.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Is there a consequence? Is there a consequence for anyone
that doesn't show? I love the word we're talking about
a mastery. I mean only when you think about a mastery,
you think about someone they have a master's education in whatever,
you know, two years past or a year past. Yes,
their bachelor's degree. But again another word that what does
(06:04):
it mean? I don't know. It's it's very frustrating here
at Massachusetts. It must be fun for you guys at
the State House to cover this stuff. I did it
a long time ago, and it was easier back then. Look,
I always ask I love State House News service. You
guys do a great job. And I'm not saying that
because no, I really mean that you you were doing
(06:27):
genuine journalism that oftentimes the Globe and or the Herald
doesn't have the personnel to do. I read your stuff
all the time, and your materials can be I believe,
made available to regular citizens. All they have to do
is sign up, and there's probably a subscription fee, I assume.
(06:50):
But if people are interested in reading about what's happening
in the four walls or however many walls they have
of the State House, the state House News certain service
is a great Uh. It does just does a great job.
How can how can the average person get a subscription
or or read your work on a day to day basis.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Yeah, we cover everything that's going on inside the State House.
So if anyone is interested in that, you can just
go to state House News dot com. There's a subscription
button and you can see try to find a plan
that works for you as an individual, and usually our
subscription team is willing to work with anyone who just
(07:36):
is interested and wants a plan. And we also have
a free newsletter called master List if you just want
a free little tidbit of politics every morning.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well, I think that's great. I love master List because
it also correct me if I'm wrong. It tells you
what jobs are open and available, and what jobs filled
uh and you it's you guys do a great job.
And we used to have back in the day when
I was a TV reporter in the seventies and eighties
and nineties, we had we had offices up at the
(08:08):
State House and even at City Hall, and we had
great reporters at WVZ. John Henning would be at the
State House and Walt Sanders would be at Boston City Hall.
And those days were gone. And thank God that the
State House News Service is there to fill the void.
And I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, we're there five days a week, so yep. Glad
to have a full press room still operating up there.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's great. And as long as I get my invitation
of the annual Christmas party, which I'm never able to
make because I'm working mostly now. But I so appreciate
when you guys come on and break things down for us.
You do such a great job. Thank you, Sam.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, thank you really, thanks.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Thanks talk to you so okay, have your back. You
have a great one.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Bye bye, Thanks you too.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
All right, now we're going to answer the question of
why is customer service designed not to be customer server
to serve customers. That's exactly the problem, the real reasons
behind long hold times, dead end chatbox and disempowered agents.
Where we are going to be talking with the author
(09:13):
of a new book hold the Suffering Economy of Customer Service.
The name is Amas T. Numa. I'm hoping I'm getting
that name correctly. If not, I will be corrected. Right
after this quick break on Nightside, it is a Wednesday night.
Winter has arrived. We are three days deep into the
meteorological winter. Stay with us. We have some great topics
(09:34):
coming up tonight. There's a new book out by Dan Flynn.
It is about the life of a very influential conservative
activist that you may never have heard of, a fellow
named Frank Meyer. He also helped shape the person and
the personality of a longtime WBZ talk show host, David Brudnoy.
(09:59):
So we're going to talk with Dan Flynn, and then
at ten o'clock you could ask whatever questions you want.
The truth about college, the essential guide for parents and
teens so you can make the right choice Together, Rick Edelman,
He'll also be willing to talk to you about I
guess financial issues as well. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I'm delighted to welcome Amas to NUMA. He's an MBA
and author of a new book, Hold The Suffering Economy
of Customer Service. He's a former customer service executive. Amas.
I don't want to blame you, but customer service is
gone in America for the most part. How are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Thank you so very much for having me. And look,
you're correct, customer service isn't broken, it's profitable. I helped
build the system some people are fighting against, and I'm
here to explain why they feel the way they do.
Go right ahead, listen the if you if I asked
(11:11):
you to name five companies, like national companies that you
just love their customer service, I doubt you could.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I could name one. I couldn't name one.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
And so you've got to think, when something is this
uniquely bad across every major company. It's never an accident.
It's the design. You know, it's not in competence. These
are companies that have really brilliant people. I have run
large customer service organizations, so they are really brilliant, smart
(11:48):
people there, and yet you know they're all uniformly bad
and that's just because it's just the design of how
customer service has been built in this day an agent.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, it used to be that in this country, the
slogan of any company was the customer is always right.
I'm sure you might. You're probably much younger than I am,
because everybody's much younger than I am at this point
of mass. But there were companies that said, so if
if you went back there and you said, this hammer
(12:21):
doesn't work, I hit a nail and the nail went sideways.
This had it can't be me. It has to be
a bad hammer. Nothing wrong with the hammer. The person
doesn't know how to use a hammer. But the company
would say, let me take that hammer back and we'll
get you another hammer, or or have you thought about
using a screwdriver? You know? But the customer was never
(12:45):
Now it's like you end up fighting. Look. I went
to purchase something in I guess early October. I'm not
going to name the company, but I didn't realize it
was a company that was producing their products in China.
So I purchased the product, put my credit card in,
and all of a sudden I got uh a notice
that the company that the product was being shipped in
(13:08):
Mandarin Chinese. And I know you won't believe this, but
I don't speak Amanda in Chinese. Uh, I know, I know,
what can I tell you? Uh? And so so the
company uh finally sent me something in English said that
said the product had arrived in the United States, but
it was misaddressed and it was sitting in a warehouse
(13:30):
somewhere in like Delaware. Well, I wasn't going to drive
to Delaware, Okay, And I said to myself, this is
this is a good enough time to cancel the order.
So I must say this. Lisa is one company that
I like, called him up, explained the situation to them.
They canceled it. The company tried to recharge me again
(13:51):
after they cancel it. I mean, now you now you're
in that vortex of horrible customer. You couldn't speak to anybody.
There was no phone number, nothing I should have. I
will never order anything from any company that I do
not know is an American based company. I'm gonna sound
like Donald Trump by bringing it all home as far
(14:13):
as I'm concerned at this boy, and I'm not a
Donald Trump guy per se. Okay, he does some good things.
So why are these companies doing this. You get people
on the phone. I got someone calling me today about medicare.
I don't do medicare. I don't need medicare. I had
my insurance coverage. And the person can't even speak, not
even close to what I would call English. And I,
(14:34):
you know, God love them. They're working, but they're working
somewhere in the Philippines or I don't know, Samoa. What
the hell do they know about medicare? Realistically? What problem?
They're just trying to sell me stuff. You know, you
hit a nerve a moscow right ahead.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
This is why listen, it took me three years to
get to this book because I was also trying to
and so I've been in this business betweenty five years.
I was also trying to answer how did we get here?
And you know, this is an interesting tidbit. So the
first recorded complaint customer service complaint is from seventeen fifty DC.
(15:15):
A man carved four hundred words into a clay tablet
because he had bad customer service.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think that was Moses and it was the ten Commandments.
I shall not lie. Get it. I know Moses is
a round later than That's an amazing that's.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Amazing, and we have it. And if you go read it,
and I actually start the book, the very first word
out of the book is reading this, then in there
you would go, did this guy write this about an
Amazon product he bought? Because it reads very familiar. But
here's what was different. What was different there was we
had not invented marketing yet. And I blame marketing for
(16:00):
the change in it incentives. And here's let me explain
that I researched this, and God, here is that. You know,
if you think you know when you say soap operas,
people don't realize soap operas were invented just to sell soap.
They weren't. They weren't just dramas.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
In the fifties. In the fifties, right.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, the moment they realized in the ADMIN that they
could tell a good story to convince people to buy something.
They could tell a good story to say, hey, you
know what, Dan, we've changed. It's a new thing. Come back.
Then all of a sudden, on like in seventeen fifty BC,
and before we had marketing, their entire thin was the
(16:43):
customer was always right. Customer service was marketing. You were
not going to sell something else. You were not going
to get people to buy your products if you didn't
treat the ones you had with dignity and with respect
and good quality. That is no longer true because you
and I, even though we're complaining about customer service, the
next time some of the companies shows up with some
(17:05):
slick marketing I ads and tells us ten percent off,
we are back there again buying for it. And so
customer service is no longer about the customer's right. It's
just let me just keep you happy, let me do
the bare minimum, because if I need new customers, and
if i need you to come back again, I've got
a marketing department.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
You know who else you gotta blame. I hope you
have a chapter in there on the being counters and
absolutely and adventure capital and and private equity that go
in and they rip these companies apart. Here amss. I'm
out of time because I got to do a new
I don't do it. The newspaper got to do a newscast.
(17:45):
I'm going to bring you back some night, and we're
gonna do an hour a little bit later in the night,
and we're gonna let callers call in because I do
the first hour I do four interviews. You will one
of the interviews tonight. It's not fear to the audience.
They are they're screaming right now and is saying, finally,
what is the name of the book is hold? The
suffering economy of customer services should be called the suffering
(18:07):
Economy of customer disservice. But how can they get your book?
How can they get your book? And what's the website
that we can get people to to help help you out?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I appreciate it. The book is everywhere on Amazon and
Barnes and Noble. If you go to Waiting for Service
dot com and you click on the tool section, I've
given you tools on how to beat the system, so
you can go there. You don't have to give me
your email addresses. Tools there, and I would love to
come back and chop more with your arms.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Let me tell you. I got stories. I got stories.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
One time I call American Airlines and I get a
woman who clearly I know UH is probably somewhere what
we call offshore. And again I'm going to sell that.
Donald Trump, please forgive me.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
So because it's cheap.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's exactly so I said it. I said, where are
you located? Because she woun't speak, you know, she's trying
her best, But I said, where are you located? American
Airlines located in Dallas, Texas. I said, I know we're
American Airlines, But where could I find you right now?
If I just send a letter to you? She wouldn't
tell me, so she said, why are you asking me that?
(19:17):
And I didn't want to insult her anything. I said, Okay,
let me ask you this question. What is the name
you're in Dallas? What is the name of the Dallas
Hockey team National Hockey League team? And she said to
me again, why are you asking me that? I said,
because I didn't want to ask you the name of
the cowboy of the Dallas Cowboys. That would be too easy. Anyway,
(19:40):
you have hit a nerve with me, buddy, with and
I'm not I don't have any novacateo on this. So
we will get in touch with you and we'll bring
you back in the next couple of weeks, with maybe
even within the week, and we'll do an hour and
we'll let everybody start to join the You could be
the president of the United States of America. On customer service.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm telling you I can't I can't wait looking forward
to it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
All right, Amas Tanuma, thanks of us. We'll be back
to you. We'll be back to you soon, I promise. Thanks.
We got the news coming up. And on the other side,
this is kind of a companion question here. One I've
thought of. Is online shopping a recipe for identity theft?
I'm thinking so, but we'll see what the vice president
of Global Data Breach Resolution and Experience says. This could
(20:27):
be an interesting conversation to stay with us on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
It's Niston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well in Fearless to my next guest, Michael Brumer, who's
the VP of Global Data Breach Resolution and Experience. First
of all, Michael, welcome to night Side. Thank you for
joining us. Dan, thank you very much. You well, thank
you very much. We were just talking with a prior
guest who was telling us how the customer service is
designed not to serve customers. It was, it was, and
(21:02):
I agree with him, but I am no longer interested
in doing online shopping because customer service is so bad.
Now we add to it, is online shopping a recipe
for identity theft? Just another reason not to go online?
More of a reason for me to go to brick
and mortar stores, but I suspect you're going to You're
(21:25):
going to tell me that that is a fear that
is unfounded.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Well, first of all, Dan, thank you for having me
well back in the wall. It's actually interesting because currently,
based on a recent Experienced survey, that only twenty six
percent of people are going to excuse me, only forty
three percent of people are going to shop online in store,
and fifty three percent are going to still do the
(21:54):
traditional point, click and purchase online. And we haven't had
any statistics that call for you know, it's because of
customer service. I think it's much more for convenience. But
online shopping is definitely more risky in twenty twenty five
than it ever has been.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So what can people do? And again, you're one of
the major credit companies in America. I have a subscription
to Experience just so you know, it's got nothing to
do with you being here tonight, But I believe in
an experience. So what can people do to minimize the
chance once you give them the credit card number? It's
(22:34):
like at a restaurant when they take your credit card number,
they walk in the back room. How do you know
someone's not copying that credit card number down.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Well, you're absolutely right, specifically about your circumstance. You should
never let any server or any customer service agent take
your credit card away because you never know what happens.
And that's why a terminal in front of you, even
a mobile terminal terminal as much better.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Utter.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
But in terms of consumer protection during the holidays as
well as any time of year, is don't click on
any links, don't use any public Wi fi. Make sure
that you're shopping on reputable websites and they have the
HTTPS in the URL, which means it's secure and it's encrypted.
(23:22):
I'm a big fan of virtual one time use credit cards,
and most of the card issuers offer you that option
versus using your actual credit card number.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I don't understand what that is, so WAEC I can
go to I'm a Visa cod guy. I can go
to Visa and say, you can give me a different
number which you will recognize as my credit card. But
if someone steals it, it steals that number, it's going
to be useless to them. How does that work?
Speaker 5 (23:53):
That's you have it exactly correct. The major herd issuers
Visa MasterCard American Express discover when you're purchasing online, they'll
give you the option to use a one time use
virtual credit card versus the actual number.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So how do you do that? This the first I've
heard of that. Do you have to set that up
in advance? With Visa?
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Oh, I'm a purchase So if you have your card
linked in an app, you will you will give that
it'll give you that option. With those companies that I mentioned,
to be able to say do you want to use
your real credit card number or do you want to
(24:41):
use a virtual one time use credit card number? And
that's always the best choice.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But what I'm saying is, and again I don't want
to believer the point, but but you've struck upon something
which I'm unaware of. Therefore, I want my audience to
be if I don't know, I'm assuming there might be
some people in the audience that don't know. I go
when I want to go to my account, you know,
my Visa card. I do it on my computer. I
put in my password, I put in my my identification,
(25:10):
my password, and I go to my It gets me
to tells me how much I've spent, how much I owe,
et cetera. All of that, how do I set how
do I do? I have to call Visa if you know,
and say, look, I heard about this new deal. Can
can What do I have to do?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Do?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I have to do it through the app and put
it on my phone and it's only in my phone.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
I'm not familiar with how all of them do it,
but I can tell I can tell you what the
cards that I have, both for MasterCard and for American Express,
they will they will allow you when the credit card
request comes up, and normally it's just a blank space
(25:54):
to put in your credit card number. If you click
on that space, if you have your app on, whether
it's MasterCard or American Express, it will pop up do
you want to use a virtual credit card or do
you want to use your actual number? And it's always
best to choose the virtual one because it's one time
used and when it pops up, it'll show you a
(26:17):
different number than your actual credit card number, and so
that reduces fraud as well as the potential of identity.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Thought, Okay, that's a great piece of advice. I'm going
to call my credit card company tomorrow and have them
walk me through it, and I hope other people do
as well. But it's almost as if they will automatically
generate a number of whatever it is, sixteen character number
like your credit card, but that then will basically tell
your credit card company that this is a legitimate purchase
(26:48):
that you made through your actual credit card, but for
the purpose of this purchase, this phony number is associated
with your credit card for this purpose, for this purchase,
and this purchase alone. Oh but that's good stuff exactly. Yeah,
thank you for doing that. So let me just take
and finish up here a couple of a couple of
(27:10):
other questions if I could, Is there any other tip
that you could give us? You know, we get sloppy.
I find that in the more expensive restaurants. I remember
we were at the restaurant last Friday night. I handed
the credit card to the waiter waitress, and they took
(27:31):
it into the back room. Now I trust the place
we went to because we've been there many times. But
we ate at an Olive Garden on Sunday night and
they had the little screen right at your table. You
put the credit card in, the waitress was there with you,
They gave you the receipt. They never the credit card
(27:51):
never left my presence at Olive Garden, which makes me
more of an Olive Garden fan. The lower end restaurants
being more sensitive to the to the need for credit
cards not to leave your hand.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
I don't think so, because some of the restaurants and
my wife and I go to regularly, they all have
mobile terminals and they may say, hey, let me take
your credit card. The waitress or waiter is running around
and they want to grab a credit card and take
it to the bar, take.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It to the back.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
And just because of the situation that I'm in from
a business perspective, I don't. I've just said, just bringing
out the card terminal and I'll use that because you
may trust the people in front, and you may know
the restaurant, but you don't know the people in back.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Oh. Absolutely, this was really helpful. Those are great tips, Michael,
and I never thought of it, but I know that
there are a lot of restaurants where the where the
wait personnel will have that portable. It almost looks like
an old transistor radio, you know, just stick the card in. Yeah,
the card never leaves your hand. Uh. At at Olive Garden,
(29:06):
it's a it's a it's a a device that sits
on your table and it never leaves the table, and
your credit card never never leaves your line of vision.
If folks want to get more information on Experience or
if they want to become a member of Experience, it's
just Experience dot com.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
If I recall, it's Experience dot com. And then you
can also include forward slash data breach because that will
not only give you the consumer protection tips how to
protect yourself in advance of an incident, but if you
have any issues, you will also tell you what to
do if you suffer identity fast for a scam. So
(29:48):
that's that's the address.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
All great stuff, really, Michael Bruner Broomer, I appreciate it.
Vice President of Global Data Breach Resolution and Experience, Thank
you so much for taking some time tonight. I really
do appreciate what you do and what Experience does.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Thanks Dan, and thanks for nightside.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
All right, we'll have you back. Thank you so much.
Will we get back. I'm gonna ask the question, the
age old question, is twelve too young for cell phone?
Yes it is, and we're going to talk with doctor
Catherine Athens. Get Athens like the city in Greece, the
capital of Greece. Doctor Katherine Athens. She's a psychologist and
an author here on Nightside. Nice save Rob coming back
(30:32):
on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, all of us, as parents, at some point have
to deal with children or teenagers asking for a cell
phone and giving you all sorts of reasons why it
is in your interest to allow that child to have
a cell phone, and all of a sudden, the dynamics
of a family get shifted so that the child is
(31:00):
telling you what is best for you and best for them.
At least that's the dynamics in most families. Is twelve
too young for cell phone? I say yes. A new
study published in a peer reviewed journal Pediatrics found that
kids with a smartphone by age twelve faced an increased
risk of developing depression, sleep problems, and obesity. Smartphone is
different than a cell phone. Doctor Catherine Athens is with
(31:23):
us as psychologist and author. Smartphone is the next step
beyond a plain old what we used to think of
as the flip cell phones where you could do one
thing and that was either to make a call or
take a call. That was the flip phone. That was it. Hi,
doctor Athens, how are you tonight?
Speaker 6 (31:42):
It's fine, thank you for having me. And absolutely you know,
research was done in the late eighties about how dangerous
these phones are. They emit a lot of electromagnetic energy,
and our children's brains are growing even at age twelve. Recently,
(32:07):
the research has shown that a brain in a human
doesn't fully developed till the age of thirty five. And
what parents have done out of laziness is to allow
their children to start using their phones even at age three.
(32:28):
And we have children now whose brains will not go
to folk capacity. It has been shown in the research
that that smartphone will take the place in the brain
of the language center and the ability to have empathy.
(32:51):
And what we are seeing now are a lot of
young people who neither have empathy nor have the abilt
to speak. So we have done a terrible mis justice
to the human race, let alone our children.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well in the highly developed countries of the world. Yes,
there's a lot of countries around the world where cell
phones are still a rarity. And here we are in
our own affluence. We are in effect a wash in
our own affluence. And I think it's interesting that the
twelve or thirteen year old kid is basically appealing to
the parental instincts saying well, mom and dad, you'll be
(33:32):
able to know where I am. And all the other
kids have them, and I can use them doing research
on my paper on quantum physics when I get into
the twelfth grade. I mean, they have all of the lines.
They basically are either extorting, blackmailing, or perhaps doing both
of their parents in order to get a cell phone.
(33:52):
It is now, it is a piece of identity that
they these kids as young as we feel they need
to have. I mean, it has been really it's been
a scam in my opinion, and I think you probably will.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
Yes, it is a scam. And you know, there's a
magic word for parents.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
They forgot.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
They know, they forgot that magic word.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
My kids heard a lot of that word. They heard
a lot of that word. And the follow up comment was,
what is it about the word no that you do not.
Speaker 6 (34:28):
Understand exactly exactly. And your job as a parent is
to raise the best human being you can and it
is not to give them a plaything so you don't
have to pay attention to them. And that is what
(34:49):
that has become. And parents have been ignoring their children
because their children now have a plaything. That keeps them occupied. Yeah,
and that has resulted in a lack of social skills
and in depression and the fact we don't get together anymore.
(35:11):
I mean, you and I probably we had parties with
each other, we spoke to each other, we had you know,
interaction with another human being. And this device has made
it so that these young humans don't have to do that. Instead,
(35:37):
they can sit alone in a dark room for days
and not interact with anyone. And of course that is depressing.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's all it's all electronic. There's it's text messages. They
watch endless reels of TikTok videos, which I don't know
where we're headed here. I don't want to sound like
a curmudgeon. I don't want to sound like Clint Eastward
get off my lawn. But I'm telling you we have
(36:10):
made some real fundamental mistakes. And despite the good work
of professionals like you, we have listened to the twelve
year old kids, and we have been cowed by those
twelve year old kids, and we have been guilt tripped. Well,
all the other kids have a cell phone, mom or dad,
and I'm the only one that's gonna be without. I'm
gonna have no friends, they know what heartstring to to
(36:35):
pull upon to get what they want.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
Well, yes, but their logic is faulty and parents aren't
really thinking this through. This is a deadly piece of
equipment that a mits things that harm the nervous system.
(36:59):
And children need to develop healthy nervous systems to be
healthy adult human beings. And we have two generations of
many unhealthy human beings that can't relate to other human beings,
(37:20):
nor do they care about others.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Okay, let me ask us doctor. We have a minute left. Okay,
the view that you and I have here is pretty dystopian.
Let's get positive and in less than a minute. What
can we do now with this generation? Must? Must those
parents develop a backbone and just learn to say no?
(37:43):
And you get a cell phone when you're eighteen? Is that?
Is that the answer? What's the answer?
Speaker 6 (37:48):
The answer is, have a cardi at your house, invite
all your friends, put on some dance music, move the furniture.
If you have a swimming pool of a swimming par
or if you know, if not, have a party at
your house, have a pizza party, play games that you're
interacting with each other. Because people and children will have
(38:14):
a good time and will if they're exposed to this
kind of human interaction. We'll prefer it to a phone.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Doctor Katherine Athens, if you have a book out, I'd
love to publicize the book here that parents can read.
Uh is the book? Is there a book available that
you've written?
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Well, you know, The Heart Brain is a very wonderful
book because it talks about the relationship of the brain
in the head and the heart. Talks about how to
be a healthy, balanced person. It's science light. We wrote
it with very simple words, lots of illustrations.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
What is the name of that book? And I assume
these books are always available on Amazon. What's the name
of the book?
Speaker 6 (39:08):
You're right at the Heart Brain. It is available on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Perfect, Doctor Athens, thank you very much. I enjoyed our
conversation immensely and we may do this again because I
thought there was a lot of wisdom and what you
shared with us tonight. Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (39:26):
I'm grateful, Thank you for having me. If you want
more information, Katherine Athens PhD dot com. Athens is at
H A N S. Catherine is c A T H
E R I N E. Go to my website.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thank you, Thank you, doctor Athens bro we get back,
We're going to have a conversation that will incorporate the
late great David Bradnoy. We're going to be talking with
author Dan Flynn about his new book, The Man Who
Invented Conservatism, being likely life of Frank S. Meyer, but
it talks a lot. We're going to talk about Frank
(40:03):
Meyer apparently had a tremendous influence on the development of
David Bradnois philosophy and his own brand of conservatism. Back
on Nightside, right after the nine o'clock News
It's nice. Eye's Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, everybody, welcome on into a Wednesday, a Wednesday
evening edition of Nightside. It is December third, and there's
snow on the ground and it is going to get cold.
So buckle up, button up, and take those gloves and
scarce the work or whatever wherever you are. If you're
in a car, you hope you're nice and warm. Got
(00:26):
that heater working well? Sometimes when I was young, you
have a car, the heater didn't work. That was tough
in like December January February. So with that all said,
I will tell you that I am indeed Dan Ray,
the host of Nightside. We are here every Monday through
Friday night from eight until midnight. We are still accepting
people who would like to participate in the charity, the
(00:47):
annual the thirteenth Annual Nightside Charity Combine. We'll talk about
that a little more later on, but if you want
to get my email and you'd like to participate as
the leader of a charity, we'll give you some free
radio time on Tuesday, the twenty third of December. That'll
be the last hour or two of the show. On
(01:08):
that night and we have we only have a few
spots left, but I want what will happen is people
will be sending me emails on the eighteenthro still room. No,
there will be no room. So again, if you are
someone who heads a charity, great, If you're somebody who
works with the charity, talk to the leader of the
(01:28):
charity and I have them send me an email and
just call in and Rob will give you my email.
It's Dan Ray Da n r E at iHeartMedia dot com.
It's a very important program for me personally and for
WVZ and certainly for the night side audience. Let us
begin tonight. We are going to talk about a controversy
up at the State House with Sam Drysdale, state House
(01:52):
News reporter. She does a great job. Graduation framework work
has been recommended for new high school tests that sent
down the spine of the teachers union. For some reason,
we got rid of m casts, which I think was
a huge mistake. Sam, Welcome back tonight, Satt. How are
you tonight?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Dan?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
How are you? Thanks for having me?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I'm doing great well. I make these sort of editorial
comments because I just can't help myself. But why did
you give us the straight scoop as a State House
news reporter as to what's going on the last few days.
This framework was recommended, i believe by the governor and
the state Secretary of Education, and it was not well
(02:35):
received universally.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah. So, after voters last year decided to decouple the
m CAST from graduation requirements, meaning students don't need to
pass that standardized test anymore in order to graduate with
a Massachusetts diploma, the state has needed to come up
with new standardized requirements and that's been a process over
(02:59):
the last year and they just came out with their
draft recommendations this week. They're they're not the final recommendations.
Those will be coming next summer, but this is the
first look at what the governor and her Secretary of Education,
Patrick Tutwiler, has in store for students. And those include
new exams, so not the MCAST, but what they're calling
(03:22):
end of course assessments, so taken at the end of
you know, your standard high school high school courses algebra, Biology, English,
to test whether students have learned everything they need to
learn in that class. And that is going to be
coupled with other ways to prove mastery in high school,
(03:44):
so capstones, portfolios, that sort of thing, and the assessments
will be graded by the state, and the capstones and
portfolios and projects those will be graded locally, which the
state sees as a sort of copies. But the teachers
union who the Massachusetts Teachers Association specifically, they led the
(04:08):
charge to remove the past from graduation standards. And even
though they sit on the council that helped put forward
these recommendations, they're they're not happy to see that testing
is back back in front of students to help determine
whether or not they're going to graduate.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, well, give us again seeing the euphemism. I love euphemisms,
the euphemism that is being used that they don't use
the word test. What was the phrase you use? I
should have written it down.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yes, it's end of course assessments, end.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Of course assessment. Yeah. I hope that that part of
that is an explanation of the word euphemism, because that's
what it is. Uh. I mean, it's like when you
when you check out of the you know, a hotel
after a weekend. Uh, would you would you like to
total up your your your charges as opposed to here's
(05:08):
your bill? How are you going to pay it?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's crazy. So so the teachers Union is going to
fight like tooth and nails, Uh, tooth and nail and
and and all the poor high school kids. Uh, they'll
they'll be confused. And what is a end of course assessment?
I mean it's it's it's a test. It's you could
(05:34):
call it whatever you want, but.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Yep, it's it's a test.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Is there a consequence? Is there a consequence for anyone
that doesn't show? I love the word we're talking about
a mastery. I mean only when you think about a mastery,
you think about someone they have a master's education in whatever,
you know, two years past or a year past. Yes,
their bachelor's degree. But again another word that what does
(06:04):
it mean? I don't know. It's it's very frustrating here
at Massachusetts. It must be fun for you guys at
the State House to cover this stuff. I did it
a long time ago, and it was easier back then. Look,
I always ask I love State House News service. You
guys do a great job. And I'm not saying that
because no, I really mean that you you were doing
(06:27):
genuine journalism that oftentimes the Globe and or the Herald
doesn't have the personnel to do. I read your stuff
all the time, and your materials can be I believe,
made available to regular citizens. All they have to do
is sign up, and there's probably a subscription fee, I assume.
(06:50):
But if people are interested in reading about what's happening
in the four walls or however many walls they have
of the State House, the state House News certain service
is a great Uh. It does just does a great job.
How can how can the average person get a subscription
or or read your work on a day to day basis.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Yeah, we cover everything that's going on inside the State House.
So if anyone is interested in that, you can just
go to state House News dot com. There's a subscription
button and you can see try to find a plan
that works for you as an individual, and usually our
subscription team is willing to work with anyone who just
(07:36):
is interested and wants a plan. And we also have
a free newsletter called master List if you just want
a free little tidbit of politics every morning.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well, I think that's great. I love master List because
it also correct me if I'm wrong. It tells you
what jobs are open and available, and what jobs filled
uh and you it's you guys do a great job.
And we used to have back in the day when
I was a TV reporter in the seventies and eighties
and nineties, we had we had offices up at the
(08:08):
State House and even at City Hall, and we had
great reporters at WVZ. John Henning would be at the
State House and Walt Sanders would be at Boston City Hall.
And those days were gone. And thank God that the
State House News Service is there to fill the void.
And I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, we're there five days a week, so yep. Glad
to have a full press room still operating up there.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
That's great. And as long as I get my invitation
of the annual Christmas party, which I'm never able to
make because I'm working mostly now. But I so appreciate
when you guys come on and break things down for us.
You do such a great job. Thank you, Sam.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, thank you really, thanks.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Thanks talk to you so okay, have your back. You
have a great one.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Bye bye, Thanks you too.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
All right, now we're going to answer the question of
why is customer service designed not to be customer server
to serve customers. That's exactly the problem, the real reasons
behind long hold times, dead end chatbox and disempowered agents.
Where we are going to be talking with the author
(09:13):
of a new book hold the Suffering Economy of Customer Service.
The name is Amas T. Numa. I'm hoping I'm getting
that name correctly. If not, I will be corrected. Right
after this quick break on Nightside, it is a Wednesday night.
Winter has arrived. We are three days deep into the
meteorological winter. Stay with us. We have some great topics
(09:34):
coming up tonight. There's a new book out by Dan Flynn.
It is about the life of a very influential conservative
activist that you may never have heard of, a fellow
named Frank Meyer. He also helped shape the person and
the personality of a longtime WBZ talk show host, David Brudnoy.
(09:59):
So we're going to talk with Dan Flynn, and then
at ten o'clock you could ask whatever questions you want.
The truth about college, the essential guide for parents and
teens so you can make the right choice Together, Rick Edelman,
He'll also be willing to talk to you about I
guess financial issues as well. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I'm delighted to welcome Amas to NUMA. He's an MBA
and author of a new book, Hold The Suffering Economy
of Customer Service. He's a former customer service executive. Amas.
I don't want to blame you, but customer service is
gone in America for the most part. How are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Thank you so very much for having me. And look,
you're correct, customer service isn't broken, it's profitable. I helped
build the system some people are fighting against, and I'm
here to explain why they feel the way they do.
Go right ahead, listen the if you if I asked
(11:11):
you to name five companies, like national companies that you
just love their customer service, I doubt you could.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I could name one. I couldn't name one.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
And so you've got to think, when something is this
uniquely bad across every major company. It's never an accident.
It's the design. You know, it's not in competence. These
are companies that have really brilliant people. I have run
large customer service organizations, so they are really brilliant, smart
(11:48):
people there, and yet you know they're all uniformly bad
and that's just because it's just the design of how
customer service has been built in this day an agent.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, it used to be that in this country, the
slogan of any company was the customer is always right.
I'm sure you might. You're probably much younger than I am,
because everybody's much younger than I am at this point
of mass. But there were companies that said, so if
if you went back there and you said, this hammer
(12:21):
doesn't work, I hit a nail and the nail went sideways.
This had it can't be me. It has to be
a bad hammer. Nothing wrong with the hammer. The person
doesn't know how to use a hammer. But the company
would say, let me take that hammer back and we'll
get you another hammer, or or have you thought about
using a screwdriver? You know? But the customer was never
(12:45):
Now it's like you end up fighting. Look. I went
to purchase something in I guess early October. I'm not
going to name the company, but I didn't realize it
was a company that was producing their products in China.
So I purchased the product, put my credit card in,
and all of a sudden I got uh a notice
that the company that the product was being shipped in
(13:08):
Mandarin Chinese. And I know you won't believe this, but
I don't speak Amanda in Chinese. Uh, I know, I know,
what can I tell you? Uh? And so so the
company uh finally sent me something in English said that
said the product had arrived in the United States, but
it was misaddressed and it was sitting in a warehouse
(13:30):
somewhere in like Delaware. Well, I wasn't going to drive
to Delaware, Okay, And I said to myself, this is
this is a good enough time to cancel the order.
So I must say this. Lisa is one company that
I like, called him up, explained the situation to them.
They canceled it. The company tried to recharge me again
(13:51):
after they cancel it. I mean, now you now you're
in that vortex of horrible customer. You couldn't speak to anybody.
There was no phone number, nothing I should have. I
will never order anything from any company that I do
not know is an American based company. I'm gonna sound
like Donald Trump by bringing it all home as far
(14:13):
as I'm concerned at this boy, and I'm not a
Donald Trump guy per se. Okay, he does some good things.
So why are these companies doing this. You get people
on the phone. I got someone calling me today about medicare.
I don't do medicare. I don't need medicare. I had
my insurance coverage. And the person can't even speak, not
even close to what I would call English. And I,
(14:34):
you know, God love them. They're working, but they're working
somewhere in the Philippines or I don't know, Samoa. What
the hell do they know about medicare? Realistically? What problem?
They're just trying to sell me stuff. You know, you
hit a nerve a moscow right ahead.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
This is why listen, it took me three years to
get to this book because I was also trying to
and so I've been in this business betweenty five years.
I was also trying to answer how did we get here?
And you know, this is an interesting tidbit. So the
first recorded complaint customer service complaint is from seventeen fifty DC.
(15:15):
A man carved four hundred words into a clay tablet
because he had bad customer service.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I think that was Moses and it was the ten Commandments.
I shall not lie. Get it. I know Moses is
a round later than That's an amazing that's.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Amazing, and we have it. And if you go read it,
and I actually start the book, the very first word
out of the book is reading this, then in there
you would go, did this guy write this about an
Amazon product he bought? Because it reads very familiar. But
here's what was different. What was different there was we
had not invented marketing yet. And I blame marketing for
(16:00):
the change in it incentives. And here's let me explain
that I researched this, and God, here is that. You know,
if you think you know when you say soap operas,
people don't realize soap operas were invented just to sell soap.
They weren't. They weren't just dramas.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
In the fifties. In the fifties, right.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, the moment they realized in the ADMIN that they
could tell a good story to convince people to buy something.
They could tell a good story to say, hey, you
know what, Dan, we've changed. It's a new thing. Come back.
Then all of a sudden, on like in seventeen fifty BC,
and before we had marketing, their entire thin was the
(16:43):
customer was always right. Customer service was marketing. You were
not going to sell something else. You were not going
to get people to buy your products if you didn't
treat the ones you had with dignity and with respect
and good quality. That is no longer true because you
and I, even though we're complaining about customer service, the
next time some of the companies shows up with some
(17:05):
slick marketing I ads and tells us ten percent off,
we are back there again buying for it. And so
customer service is no longer about the customer's right. It's
just let me just keep you happy, let me do
the bare minimum, because if I need new customers, and
if i need you to come back again, I've got
a marketing department.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
You know who else you gotta blame. I hope you
have a chapter in there on the being counters and
absolutely and adventure capital and and private equity that go
in and they rip these companies apart. Here amss. I'm
out of time because I got to do a new
I don't do it. The newspaper got to do a newscast.
(17:45):
I'm going to bring you back some night, and we're
gonna do an hour a little bit later in the night,
and we're gonna let callers call in because I do
the first hour I do four interviews. You will one
of the interviews tonight. It's not fear to the audience.
They are they're screaming right now and is saying, finally,
what is the name of the book is hold? The
suffering economy of customer services should be called the suffering
(18:07):
Economy of customer disservice. But how can they get your book?
How can they get your book? And what's the website
that we can get people to to help help you out?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I appreciate it. The book is everywhere on Amazon and
Barnes and Noble. If you go to Waiting for Service
dot com and you click on the tool section, I've
given you tools on how to beat the system, so
you can go there. You don't have to give me
your email addresses. Tools there, and I would love to
come back and chop more with your arms.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Let me tell you. I got stories. I got stories.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
One time I call American Airlines and I get a
woman who clearly I know UH is probably somewhere what
we call offshore. And again I'm going to sell that.
Donald Trump, please forgive me.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
So because it's cheap.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's exactly so I said it. I said, where are
you located? Because she woun't speak, you know, she's trying
her best, But I said, where are you located? American
Airlines located in Dallas, Texas. I said, I know we're
American Airlines, But where could I find you right now?
If I just send a letter to you? She wouldn't
tell me, so she said, why are you asking me that?
(19:17):
And I didn't want to insult her anything. I said, Okay,
let me ask you this question. What is the name
you're in Dallas? What is the name of the Dallas
Hockey team National Hockey League team? And she said to
me again, why are you asking me that? I said,
because I didn't want to ask you the name of
the cowboy of the Dallas Cowboys. That would be too easy. Anyway,
(19:40):
you have hit a nerve with me, buddy, with and
I'm not I don't have any novacateo on this. So
we will get in touch with you and we'll bring
you back in the next couple of weeks, with maybe
even within the week, and we'll do an hour and
we'll let everybody start to join the You could be
the president of the United States of America. On customer service.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm telling you I can't I can't wait looking forward
to it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
All right, Amas Tanuma, thanks of us. We'll be back
to you. We'll be back to you soon, I promise. Thanks.
We got the news coming up. And on the other side,
this is kind of a companion question here. One I've
thought of. Is online shopping a recipe for identity theft?
I'm thinking so, but we'll see what the vice president
of Global Data Breach Resolution and Experience says. This could
(20:27):
be an interesting conversation to stay with us on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
It's Niston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well in Fearless to my next guest, Michael Brumer, who's
the VP of Global Data Breach Resolution and Experience. First
of all, Michael, welcome to night Side. Thank you for
joining us. Dan, thank you very much. You well, thank
you very much. We were just talking with a prior
guest who was telling us how the customer service is
designed not to serve customers. It was, it was, and
(21:02):
I agree with him, but I am no longer interested
in doing online shopping because customer service is so bad.
Now we add to it, is online shopping a recipe
for identity theft? Just another reason not to go online?
More of a reason for me to go to brick
and mortar stores, but I suspect you're going to You're
(21:25):
going to tell me that that is a fear that
is unfounded.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Well, first of all, Dan, thank you for having me
well back in the wall. It's actually interesting because currently,
based on a recent Experienced survey, that only twenty six
percent of people are going to excuse me, only forty
three percent of people are going to shop online in store,
and fifty three percent are going to still do the
(21:54):
traditional point, click and purchase online. And we haven't had
any statistics that call for you know, it's because of
customer service. I think it's much more for convenience. But
online shopping is definitely more risky in twenty twenty five
than it ever has been.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So what can people do? And again, you're one of
the major credit companies in America. I have a subscription
to Experience just so you know, it's got nothing to
do with you being here tonight, But I believe in
an experience. So what can people do to minimize the
chance once you give them the credit card number? It's
(22:34):
like at a restaurant when they take your credit card number,
they walk in the back room. How do you know
someone's not copying that credit card number down.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Well, you're absolutely right, specifically about your circumstance. You should
never let any server or any customer service agent take
your credit card away because you never know what happens.
And that's why a terminal in front of you, even
a mobile terminal terminal as much better.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Utter.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
But in terms of consumer protection during the holidays as
well as any time of year, is don't click on
any links, don't use any public Wi fi. Make sure
that you're shopping on reputable websites and they have the
HTTPS in the URL, which means it's secure and it's encrypted.
(23:22):
I'm a big fan of virtual one time use credit cards,
and most of the card issuers offer you that option
versus using your actual credit card number.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I don't understand what that is, so WAEC I can
go to I'm a Visa cod guy. I can go
to Visa and say, you can give me a different
number which you will recognize as my credit card. But
if someone steals it, it steals that number, it's going
to be useless to them. How does that work?
Speaker 5 (23:53):
That's you have it exactly correct. The major herd issuers
Visa MasterCard American Express discover when you're purchasing online, they'll
give you the option to use a one time use
virtual credit card versus the actual number.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So how do you do that? This the first I've
heard of that. Do you have to set that up
in advance? With Visa?
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Oh, I'm a purchase So if you have your card
linked in an app, you will you will give that
it'll give you that option. With those companies that I mentioned,
to be able to say do you want to use
your real credit card number or do you want to
(24:41):
use a virtual one time use credit card number? And
that's always the best choice.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But what I'm saying is, and again I don't want
to believer the point, but but you've struck upon something
which I'm unaware of. Therefore, I want my audience to
be if I don't know, I'm assuming there might be
some people in the audience that don't know. I go
when I want to go to my account, you know,
my Visa card. I do it on my computer. I
put in my password, I put in my my identification,
(25:10):
my password, and I go to my It gets me
to tells me how much I've spent, how much I owe,
et cetera. All of that, how do I set how
do I do? I have to call Visa if you know,
and say, look, I heard about this new deal. Can
can What do I have to do?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Do?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I have to do it through the app and put
it on my phone and it's only in my phone.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
I'm not familiar with how all of them do it,
but I can tell I can tell you what the
cards that I have, both for MasterCard and for American Express,
they will they will allow you when the credit card
request comes up, and normally it's just a blank space
(25:54):
to put in your credit card number. If you click
on that space, if you have your app on, whether
it's MasterCard or American Express, it will pop up do
you want to use a virtual credit card or do
you want to use your actual number? And it's always
best to choose the virtual one because it's one time
used and when it pops up, it'll show you a
(26:17):
different number than your actual credit card number, and so
that reduces fraud as well as the potential of identity.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Thought, Okay, that's a great piece of advice. I'm going
to call my credit card company tomorrow and have them
walk me through it, and I hope other people do
as well. But it's almost as if they will automatically
generate a number of whatever it is, sixteen character number
like your credit card, but that then will basically tell
your credit card company that this is a legitimate purchase
(26:48):
that you made through your actual credit card, but for
the purpose of this purchase, this phony number is associated
with your credit card for this purpose, for this purchase,
and this purchase alone. Oh but that's good stuff exactly. Yeah,
thank you for doing that. So let me just take
and finish up here a couple of a couple of
(27:10):
other questions if I could, Is there any other tip
that you could give us? You know, we get sloppy.
I find that in the more expensive restaurants. I remember
we were at the restaurant last Friday night. I handed
the credit card to the waiter waitress, and they took
(27:31):
it into the back room. Now I trust the place
we went to because we've been there many times. But
we ate at an Olive Garden on Sunday night and
they had the little screen right at your table. You
put the credit card in, the waitress was there with you,
They gave you the receipt. They never the credit card
(27:51):
never left my presence at Olive Garden, which makes me
more of an Olive Garden fan. The lower end restaurants
being more sensitive to the to the need for credit
cards not to leave your hand.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
I don't think so, because some of the restaurants and
my wife and I go to regularly, they all have
mobile terminals and they may say, hey, let me take
your credit card. The waitress or waiter is running around
and they want to grab a credit card and take
it to the bar, take.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It to the back.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
And just because of the situation that I'm in from
a business perspective, I don't. I've just said, just bringing
out the card terminal and I'll use that because you
may trust the people in front, and you may know
the restaurant, but you don't know the people in back.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Oh. Absolutely, this was really helpful. Those are great tips, Michael,
and I never thought of it, but I know that
there are a lot of restaurants where the where the
wait personnel will have that portable. It almost looks like
an old transistor radio, you know, just stick the card in. Yeah,
the card never leaves your hand. Uh. At at Olive Garden,
(29:06):
it's a it's a it's a a device that sits
on your table and it never leaves the table, and
your credit card never never leaves your line of vision.
If folks want to get more information on Experience or
if they want to become a member of Experience, it's
just Experience dot com.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
If I recall, it's Experience dot com. And then you
can also include forward slash data breach because that will
not only give you the consumer protection tips how to
protect yourself in advance of an incident, but if you
have any issues, you will also tell you what to
do if you suffer identity fast for a scam. So
(29:48):
that's that's the address.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
All great stuff, really, Michael Bruner Broomer, I appreciate it.
Vice President of Global Data Breach Resolution and Experience, Thank
you so much for taking some time tonight. I really
do appreciate what you do and what Experience does.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Thanks Dan, and thanks for nightside.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
All right, we'll have you back. Thank you so much.
Will we get back. I'm gonna ask the question, the
age old question, is twelve too young for cell phone?
Yes it is, and we're going to talk with doctor
Catherine Athens. Get Athens like the city in Greece, the
capital of Greece. Doctor Katherine Athens. She's a psychologist and
an author here on Nightside. Nice save Rob coming back
(30:32):
on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, all of us, as parents, at some point have
to deal with children or teenagers asking for a cell
phone and giving you all sorts of reasons why it
is in your interest to allow that child to have
a cell phone, and all of a sudden, the dynamics
of a family get shifted so that the child is
(31:00):
telling you what is best for you and best for them.
At least that's the dynamics in most families. Is twelve
too young for cell phone? I say yes. A new
study published in a peer reviewed journal Pediatrics found that
kids with a smartphone by age twelve faced an increased
risk of developing depression, sleep problems, and obesity. Smartphone is
different than a cell phone. Doctor Catherine Athens is with
(31:23):
us as psychologist and author. Smartphone is the next step
beyond a plain old what we used to think of
as the flip cell phones where you could do one
thing and that was either to make a call or
take a call. That was the flip phone. That was it. Hi,
doctor Athens, how are you tonight?
Speaker 6 (31:42):
It's fine, thank you for having me. And absolutely you know,
research was done in the late eighties about how dangerous
these phones are. They emit a lot of electromagnetic energy,
and our children's brains are growing even at age twelve. Recently,
(32:07):
the research has shown that a brain in a human
doesn't fully developed till the age of thirty five. And
what parents have done out of laziness is to allow
their children to start using their phones even at age three.
(32:28):
And we have children now whose brains will not go
to folk capacity. It has been shown in the research
that that smartphone will take the place in the brain
of the language center and the ability to have empathy.
(32:51):
And what we are seeing now are a lot of
young people who neither have empathy nor have the abilt
to speak. So we have done a terrible mis justice
to the human race, let alone our children.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well in the highly developed countries of the world. Yes,
there's a lot of countries around the world where cell
phones are still a rarity. And here we are in
our own affluence. We are in effect a wash in
our own affluence. And I think it's interesting that the
twelve or thirteen year old kid is basically appealing to
the parental instincts saying well, mom and dad, you'll be
(33:32):
able to know where I am. And all the other
kids have them, and I can use them doing research
on my paper on quantum physics when I get into
the twelfth grade. I mean, they have all of the lines.
They basically are either extorting, blackmailing, or perhaps doing both
of their parents in order to get a cell phone.
(33:52):
It is now, it is a piece of identity that
they these kids as young as we feel they need
to have. I mean, it has been really it's been
a scam in my opinion, and I think you probably will.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
Yes, it is a scam. And you know, there's a
magic word for parents.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
They forgot.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
They know, they forgot that magic word.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
My kids heard a lot of that word. They heard
a lot of that word. And the follow up comment was,
what is it about the word no that you do not.
Speaker 6 (34:28):
Understand exactly exactly. And your job as a parent is
to raise the best human being you can and it
is not to give them a plaything so you don't
have to pay attention to them. And that is what
(34:49):
that has become. And parents have been ignoring their children
because their children now have a plaything. That keeps them occupied. Yeah,
and that has resulted in a lack of social skills
and in depression and the fact we don't get together anymore.
(35:11):
I mean, you and I probably we had parties with
each other, we spoke to each other, we had you know,
interaction with another human being. And this device has made
it so that these young humans don't have to do that. Instead,
(35:37):
they can sit alone in a dark room for days
and not interact with anyone. And of course that is depressing.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It's all it's all electronic. There's it's text messages. They
watch endless reels of TikTok videos, which I don't know
where we're headed here. I don't want to sound like
a curmudgeon. I don't want to sound like Clint Eastward
get off my lawn. But I'm telling you we have
(36:10):
made some real fundamental mistakes. And despite the good work
of professionals like you, we have listened to the twelve
year old kids, and we have been cowed by those
twelve year old kids, and we have been guilt tripped. Well,
all the other kids have a cell phone, mom or dad,
and I'm the only one that's gonna be without. I'm
gonna have no friends, they know what heartstring to to
(36:35):
pull upon to get what they want.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
Well, yes, but their logic is faulty and parents aren't
really thinking this through. This is a deadly piece of
equipment that a mits things that harm the nervous system.
(36:59):
And children need to develop healthy nervous systems to be
healthy adult human beings. And we have two generations of
many unhealthy human beings that can't relate to other human beings,
(37:20):
nor do they care about others.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Okay, let me ask us doctor. We have a minute left. Okay,
the view that you and I have here is pretty dystopian.
Let's get positive and in less than a minute. What
can we do now with this generation? Must? Must those
parents develop a backbone and just learn to say no?
(37:43):
And you get a cell phone when you're eighteen? Is that?
Is that the answer? What's the answer?
Speaker 6 (37:48):
The answer is, have a cardi at your house, invite
all your friends, put on some dance music, move the furniture.
If you have a swimming pool of a swimming par
or if you know, if not, have a party at
your house, have a pizza party, play games that you're
interacting with each other. Because people and children will have
(38:14):
a good time and will if they're exposed to this
kind of human interaction. We'll prefer it to a phone.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Doctor Katherine Athens, if you have a book out, I'd
love to publicize the book here that parents can read.
Uh is the book? Is there a book available that
you've written?
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Well, you know, The Heart Brain is a very wonderful
book because it talks about the relationship of the brain
in the head and the heart. Talks about how to
be a healthy, balanced person. It's science light. We wrote
it with very simple words, lots of illustrations.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
What is the name of that book? And I assume
these books are always available on Amazon. What's the name
of the book?
Speaker 6 (39:08):
You're right at the Heart Brain. It is available on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Perfect, Doctor Athens, thank you very much. I enjoyed our
conversation immensely and we may do this again because I
thought there was a lot of wisdom and what you
shared with us tonight. Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (39:26):
I'm grateful, Thank you for having me. If you want
more information, Katherine Athens PhD dot com. Athens is at
H A N S. Catherine is c A T H
E R I N E. Go to my website.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thank you, Thank you, doctor Athens bro we get back,
We're going to have a conversation that will incorporate the
late great David Bradnoy. We're going to be talking with
author Dan Flynn about his new book, The Man Who
Invented Conservatism, being likely life of Frank S. Meyer, but
it talks a lot. We're going to talk about Frank
(40:03):
Meyer apparently had a tremendous influence on the development of
David Bradnois philosophy and his own brand of conservatism. Back
on Nightside, right after the nine o'clock News
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