January 8, 2025 • 39 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Stories of the late President Jimmy Carter & his involvement with Habitat for Humanity with Bruce Percelay - Chairman of the Edward Kennedy Institute Board & head of the Boston chapter of Habitat for Humanity.
Norovirus cases surge in Massachusetts! What is the norovirus and what can you do to protect yourself from getting it? Dr. Paul Sax - Clinical Director, Division of Infectious Diseases for Brigham & Women’s Hospital checked in with Dan.
From Congress to the Cabinet: Margaret Heckler’s Legacy as a Trailblazing Force for Justice and Equality with Kimberly Heckler – Author & Daughter in Law of Margaret Heckler.
Ongoing LA Wildfires Destroying Acres Upon Acres. Would MA firefighters get called out to West Coast to help tackle the LA fires? Correlations between what we saw here with MA brushfires compared to the West Coast with David Celino – Chief Fire Warden for MA Department of Conservation and Recreation (DCR).
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
Stories of the late President Jimmy Carter & his involvement with Habitat for Humanity with Bruce Percelay - Chairman of the Edward Kennedy Institute Board & head of the Boston chapter of Habitat for Humanity.
Norovirus cases surge in Massachusetts! What is the norovirus and what can you do to protect yourself from getting it? Dr. Paul Sax - Clinical Director, Division of Infectious Diseases for Brigham & Women’s Hospital checked in with Dan.
From Congress to the Cabinet: Margaret Heckler’s Legacy as a Trailblazing Force for Justice and Equality with Kimberly Heckler – Author & Daughter in Law of Margaret Heckler.
Ongoing LA Wildfires Destroying Acres Upon Acres. Would MA firefighters get called out to West Coast to help tackle the LA fires? Correlations between what we saw here with MA brushfires compared to the West Coast with David Celino – Chief Fire Warden for MA Department of Conservation and Recreation (DCR).
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, good evening, every one, thanks very much to call.
My name is Dan Ray, the host of the program
called The Nightside. We are a year number eighteen here
on WBZ, rolling right along through a very chilly January
of twenty twenty five today. For those of you who
are keeping score in his January eighth we will be
with you all the way to midnight. We have a
(00:28):
number of topics of interest coming up tonight. But in
our first hour we talked with four newsmakers. Going to
talk about the neurovirus outbreak, coming up with doctor Paul Sachs,
going to talk with former ambassador and former congress Woman
Margaret Heckler's a daughter in law, Kimberly Heckler, who has
written a book about Margaret Heckler's legacy, and also talk
(00:51):
with David Sealino about the Los Angeles wildfires. But we
are going to start off tonight talk a little bit
about former President Jimmy Carter, who of course passed away
a few days ago and tonight is lying in state
at the US Capitol. Joining us is Bruce Percellt. He
is the chair of the board of the Edward M.
(01:12):
Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate, a great institution
over at Columbia Point right next to the John F.
Kennedy Presidential Library. And Bruce Parslett, you had an opportunity,
I guess, to spend some time with Jimmy Carter, either
while he was president, but perhaps even more importantly after
he was president. Welcome to Night's side and tell us
(01:34):
about your experiences with Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you, Dan. I had the opportunity to serve as
chairman of the Maker Excuse me. I did the Make
a Wish Foundation as well as Habitat for Humanity Sure,
and I spent a tremendous amount of time. In fact,
Habitat built the largest urban habitat project uned States on
(01:58):
Bluehill Avenue in Boston. And I was invited to Plaines,
Georgia with a small group and we spent the weekend
with Jimmy Carter and his wife in planes and really
got to see him in action, and it was fascinating.
(02:22):
He was exactly as advertised. He was incredibly genuine, and
we went to a church service where he gave a sermon.
He afterwards invited us to go to a wedding where
a young lady's father had passed away, and he had
(02:45):
read about it, and he volunteered to stand in for
the girl's dad and walk her down the aisle, and
it was incredibly genuine. There was no press, there was
no media, there was no advanced publicity. This was a
(03:08):
person who did really wonderful deeds after being president. And
you know, the word on Jimmy Carter was that he
was a very ineffective president, but a very successful ex president.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Rino Bruce, you and I have something in common. I
spent a day with Jimmy Carter in Plains, Georgia in
nineteen eighty six. I suspect you were there a little
after me. I had an opportunity to meet then Governor
Carter as he was running for president, interviewed him while
he was president, and then after his presidency, I did
a documentary an hour on tip O'Neil and tip O'Neil,
(03:49):
a rain trust to spend a day with Jimmy Carter
in Plains, Georgia, and it was one of the most
interesting days of my life. And you know, I don't
want to try to top your story because you spent
I think a lot more up close and personal time. Well,
we're driving that day with my crew to go see
former President Carter and planes, and I happened to notice
(04:13):
these trees, and me being a northern boy, I said
to one of my camera men, whose name was Glenn.
He was from It's from New Orleans actually with a
deep Southern accent, I said, Glenn, what type of trees
are those? And he looked at me and he said,
those are Peakan trees. Everybody knows Peakan trees. I did not,
so a couple of minutes later he said, well, let
me ask you how did peanuts grow? So I thought
(04:34):
Glenn was going to try to, you know, give me
a hard time, and I said, I'm not sure. I
think everybody knew peanuts growing a vine. Well, we meet Carter, President,
former President Carter, have a great time, and in the
protocol there is generally the crew doesn't say much. And
as we were, as he was leaving later in the
after our interview and all, Glenn piped up in his
(04:57):
Southern accent and saidmit to President, I want to know
how do peanuts grow? And I was horrified that Jimmy
Carter probably thought that this was some TV camera guy
from Boston, some Yankee boy giving him a hard time,
and I jumped in, I said, I'm mister President. I said,
Glenn actually works for WBZ, but he is from New
Orleans and that is his accent. And President Carter then
(05:20):
spent about twenty minutes explaining in great detail to Glenn
how peanuts grew. Glenn did not know that they grew
on a vine underground. So you see that side of him,
and I'm sure you saw it in the same way.
And he was really very normal guy, probably one of
the most normal in terms of being like you or
(05:42):
me normal guys that ever held the office.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, and he also did not monetize his presidency. He
did not charge for speeches after he retired or lost
his election, did not enrich himself. He went back to planes,
moved into the same house that he and Rosam Carter
(06:08):
lived in before he was elected. And you know today
that's a very different scenario. But he was what you
saw on TV. He was totally grounded, and you know,
he was not a politician, and that did not serve
him well while he was in office, but it served
(06:30):
him very well after he was in office.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, my view of him that he was the victim
of some bad timing. He became president in the wake
of Watergate, the Vietnam War, the country was kind of down.
They wanted someone who was different, and he certainly was
that hem ount of nowhere to become the Democratic nominee.
And he did have some accomplishments in office. You kind
(06:57):
of downplay the accord that he got Monock and Vegan
and I wants a dot to sign, amongst others. Not
bad for a guy who was a peanut farm in
Georgia to pull those two together.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean, he did suffer from some bad luck.
I mean, the oil crisis was disastrous, and the hospit
situation and the attempted rescue and a lot of those
events tainted his presidency to this day. But his performance
(07:31):
after leaving the White House, you know, has been exemplary
and I think sets a very high standard for how
a former president should conduct himself.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And he had a lot of time. You know, he
had the benefit of about forty four years as a
post president, which I don't think any other president has
come close to having. Someone mentioned to me that his
post presidency was almost as long as the entire life
(08:03):
of President Kennedy.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, that's that's that math is about right. You know,
I want to share an amusing story with you, if
that's okay. I'm going to try to be as discreet
about it as possible. But we had gone to dinner
at a small restaurant and it was a very very
(08:29):
simple restaurant. It was more like a meeting house. And
I excused myself before the dinner to go to the
men's room and there were journals and I was doing
what I was intending to do when I went there,
(08:49):
and I'm standing up and I hear this little noise
out of the corner of my ear, and I turned
to the right and there's Jimmy Carter and we are
both going about out our business and the same thing.
He asked me about my background, and that was how
I first met him. So, you know, today there'd be
(09:12):
secret service all over the place and so forth. But
I don't know many people who can say that that
is how they met a former president, but it was.
It was an amusing experience.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
ABC used to do these documentaries called up Close and Personal.
That would have that would have fit that character. So yeah,
that probably would have bruce you You are the chair
of a of a great institute, the Edward M. Kennedy
Institute for the US Senate. People may not know as
much about it as they do about the Kennedy Library,
but it is a fabulous facility. I actually hosted and
(09:50):
interviewed Natan Sharansky, the Soviet dissident now Israeli politician, at
the Institute about ten years or so ago. It is
a fabulous building and anyone who's interested in politics needs
to see that building, to get inside and see the
(10:11):
creation that is the is the identical size of the
floor and the seats of the United States Senate. So
I just I can't tell you what a big fan
I am of the facility that you now share. So
thanks for what you do, and thanks for joining us tonight.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
You're very very welcome.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
All right, Bruce personally of the Kennedy Institute, Thanks so much. Bruce.
When we get back, we are going to change topics
and we're going to talk about more difficult topic, and
that is the neuro virus outbreak with doctor Paul Sachs
coming back on night Side right after this break. My
(10:48):
name is Dan Ray. You listen to WBZ Boston. This
is You can listen to us on ten thirty of
the A and dial. Also can download the new I
Heard app when you would like, and you can listen
to us anywhere the world, from anywhere in the world,
any hour of the day. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
All right, I think everyone has heard of the neuro virus,
and it is everywhere apparently at this point, and we're
going to talk with doctor Paul Sachs about the neural virus.
He's the clinical director of the Division of Infectious Diseases
(11:35):
for Brigham and Women's Hospital, one of my favorite hospitals
here in New England, the hospital that our great friend,
doctor Larry Cohne was a cardiac surgeon at for for decades.
Dr Sachs, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I'm well, Thank you, Dan, how are you?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm doing just great. I don't know if you overlapped
with doctor Larry Cohne, but he's a great friend. He
was also a great contributor to this program. Whenever I
think of Brigham and Women's Hospital, I think of my
friend Larry and he would commit and do two hours
in the radio and just enjoy himself. I told him
that in his next life. Unfortunately he passed a few
(12:14):
years ago. I said he was going to be a
radio or he had been a radio person in a
prior exist. And so I've had great luck with doctors
from Brigham and Women's, and I know we're going to
have great luck with you. What's going on with no
real virus? I always think of that as something that
is an outbreak on a cruise ship. And now it's
supposedly all over Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
What's going on, Well, it's actually all over the United States.
There's a huge increase in neuro virus cases. And you
know someone who's had it. Everybody knows someone who's had it.
I have a close friend who's had it. I've got
patients to have it. It's basically the kind of the
food poisoning illness of come that both directions, the upper
(12:52):
direction in the lower direction. That's very, very difficult. So
it's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But I love you using those technical medical terms.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Go right ahead, doctor, Well, I just I just think
that people should be aware that this is out there
and circulating, and it's very contagious and the best protection
is really to wash your hands carefully. It's getting back
the lessons that we have learned from since we were
in school, which is basically the best way to prevent
(13:22):
infections to wash your hands. And this is true about noravirus.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes, as they say in kindergarten, you know, wash your hands,
work well with others, pay attention. So I got to
go in life when you really think about it, Look,
here's my question, how does does this disease? Does it
have a cycle? Meaning this was designated that every seven
(13:46):
years this thing comes at us as a vengeance or
were they able to trace it and say, hey, this
year we had I think about cruise ships. Now, maybe
I'm dumb about that, but I didn't know if they
were like five or six cruise ships that simultaneously sent
a couple of thousand people back into America, you know
who had been infected, what's the what's the genesis of it?
(14:09):
Are we able to know?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
So you're absolutely right about cruise ships. Cruise ships are
intensifying locations for infections because people are on the boat,
they really can't escape, and once someone gets sick, they're
all going to the same place. To eat, and so
if there's a food borne illness or anlys that's spread
by poor sanitation, cruise ships amplify them, and so those
(14:32):
amplifiers do cause these big outbreaks. But what's happened this year,
and for reasons that are not quite clear, is that
it's actually happening in the community at large, and so
we're seeing way more cases than we usually do, and
that's that's why it's newsworthy. I do think it also
relates to the underlying community. When we have immunity to
these viral infections, it tends to protect us. And those
(14:54):
immunity community can fade gradually over years, so maybe this
year is particularly particular vulnerable, and that's why we're seeing
so much, so many cases.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I dealt with an upper respiratory affection for about two weeks,
and since I have you, I'm going to ask you
about it, because my understanding is that there's a lot
of that stuff going around. I was sent off to
chest X ray to make sure I didn't have pneumonia,
and my doctor kind of said to me, well, you
can call it ur upper respiratory if you want to
call it bronchitis. Is are those the two you know
(15:28):
again different body locations, the upper respiratory which you just
couldn't stop coughing and you couldn't get anything up to
minimize the coughing. Are those the two big problems that
we're looking at this winter.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So welcome to the winter. The winter is when we
see more of these infections. We're more aware of it
now than we used to be because of COVID nineteen
and indeed, in every winter even before twenty twenty, we
started seeing more infections and most years who would just say, oh,
it's the flu season. But now we're really hyper aware
of these and this year, just like all years, we're
(16:04):
seeing lots of viral respiratory infections. And the added bonus
joking is that if you're seeing more gas from intestinal infections,
which is neurovirus, this is really off.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I get paid to ask questions, I truly do. That's okay.
You get paid to solve people's medical problems. Is there
is this about fifty in terms of these two these
are the two biggies of the winter. Are they about
the same in terms of the number of people that
have been affected? Or is neuro virus?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know much more about and about the bronchial upper
respiratory infections.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Well, I can't give you numbers to compare, but I
will tell you that if someone has neurovirus a bad case,
they're they're incapacitated. You know, they have a couple of
days at home where they're not doing anything. You know,
And anyone who's had this illness understands what I'm talking about.
And you know, I mean again just to tell you
(17:03):
that that it's first of all, it's very contagious, but
not one hundred percent. So if you're in a household
where there's a person who has it, it does make
sense to try to avoid the person. It makes sense
to try to wash your hands frequently, to not share
food with that person, and you could not get it.
It is contagious, but not one hundred percent. And second,
(17:24):
you know the viro respistory infections, those are spread predominantly
by airborne transmission, so it's very different. So nor virus
is spread more by contaminated food and water and by
contacting surfaces, whereas the residtory viruses are spread more by
you know, the air. That's something we've learned very clearly.
So they're two different things. But they both get both
get increased in the winter time.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I follow the numbers that are released every week about
the number of COVID cases, and there's always a few
deaths related to COVID. Sure is COVID seems to stabilized.
From the numbers I'm looking at it. It's always about
fifteen hundred new cases a year in a state with
six point seven million. That's a decimal point. But you know,
(18:10):
I learned of a friend of mine today, not going
to identify who that person was, who was diagnosed with COVID.
I took COVID tests when I first got this bronchitis
when it was COVID is not the big problem this year.
It's neurovirus and or the bronchitis, is what I'm getting
from our conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
So you're absolutely right. COVID is still there because your
friend had it, and we all know people have had it,
but it's not nearly as serious as it was in
the first one to two years of the pandemic. That's
because of our built up immunity and we have built
community from prior infections plus prior vaccinations, so we should
still pay attention to it. And it's very lethal potentially
(18:53):
to people who have underlying medical problems, but it's not
the same problem, so it should be contextualized other things
that people can get. So I would say that this season,
it's it's influenza right now, there's tons of flu out there,
it's covid, it's it's nouro virus, it's it's a it's
a mix. But that doesn't mean that we should stop
(19:14):
interacting with people, stop having our holiday celebrations, which has finished.
This is part of the package of being in a
winter location, and it just means that every year should
just beware that this is the season where these infections
start increasing.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Here's my dumbest question of the night. Will the really
bitterly cold weather of the last few days in the
next couple of days, will that knock a lot of
this stuff down? Or is that just an old lives tale.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I want to be polite to you, but it really
it's very unclear. I mean, the bitter cold weather certainly
puts people in a situation where they're more likely to
huddle inside and not interact with others, so potentially it could.
But on the other hand, you know, the outdoor activities
that are very safe for respiratory tract infections are basically
(20:05):
non starters, so it's really hard to say good question though.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, as they say, they pay me to ask questions,
and I try to do my best here. You did
a great job, though. You have lived up to the
doctor Larry Cone Brigham and Women's Hospital standard, which is
a high bar.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Here, nice, I I want you to know a great
cardiac surgeon. I remember him fondly.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Just a wonderful guy. Just a wonderful guy. Doctor Paul Sachs,
you sound the same way. Thanks so much. Love to
have you back. You make it understandable even for people
like me, which is quite an accomplishment. Thank you, doctor,
appreciate it very much. Have a great, great rest of
the week and weekend, and stay well.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Thanks to help.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Dan. All right, when we get back, we're going to
talk a little bit about politics. We're going to talk
about a Massachusetts native who served in Congress, was a
cabinet secretary and eventually ambassador to Ireland. Congresswoman, Ambassador and Secretary,
Margaret Heckler, going to talk with her daughter in law,
(21:09):
who has written a book about Margaret Heckler her legacy
as a trail blazing Force for Justice inequality. Going to
be back on Nightside right after the news at the
bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
It's Nightside with Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
All right, we are back. And I had an opportunity
during my career as a teller's reporter to cover Congresswoman
Margaret Heckler, both while she was a member of the
House of Representatives representing Massachusetts, later as she served as
(21:47):
a Cabinet secretary in the Reagan administration and beyond that
as ambassador to Ireland and with US. Is Kimberly Heckler,
the author and also daughter in law of Margaret Heckler,
with a very special tribute and a book entitled A
Woman of Firsts. Kimberly Heckler. Welcome to Nightside. How are you.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
I am doing great. Thank you so much, Dan, Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
You're really welcome. I again, had plenty of interaction with
your late mother in law. She was a Republican here
in Massachusetts, which it was a difficult road to road
to uh to travel. H A proud Boston Universe, Boston
(22:36):
College alumnus, UH and and and and she touched all
the bases, as they say, as an elected official, as
a Cabinet secretary and as an ambassador. Uh tell us
what what will you tell us about her legacy?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And and why? Obviously you had tremendous access to her.
So I'm sure that's why you decided to write the book.
But what will people learn from the book that they
need to learn?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Well, thank you, Dan. I married Margaret Heckler's only son,
the baby of the three siblings two daughters and a son,
and John Heckler. So Margaret lived in Arlington, Virginia, no
further than a mile away from us as a married
couple for my entired married life, and so I didn't
(23:26):
get to know Margaret until she was ambassador to Ireland.
And at that point I also wasn't aware at the
time that she was the most powerful American in Ireland.
And so through raising kids and Sunday night dinners, some
of the stories came out. And basically most of the wonderful,
(23:52):
amazing legacy pieces that make her historically significant I learned
in her life years. Because she didn't really go into
detail about how she wrote the law for women to
get credit and credit cards in their own names for
the first time in American history. I had no idea
(24:14):
that she was one of the primary sponsors for the
Equal Rights Amendment as a Republican, the stories that I
learned about what she did as a Health and Human
Services secretary, that she was quoted as being one of
the most powerful women in America in nineteen eighty three.
(24:34):
Those stories came out later when I was responsible for
the boxes upon boxes of her items. Not mentioned that
over yes, her papers, and not to mention the two
hundred two hundred boxes that are stored at the Burns
Library at Boston College.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
She certainly had an imprint. I actually, besides covering her
here and in Washington, did a fairly extensive sit down
interview with her at the US Embassy in Phoenix Park
in Dublin many many years ago. Oh, she was the
ambassador to Ireland. And as a person. I knew her
(25:21):
obviously as a political leader, but you knew her as
a political leader, but you also got to know her
as a daughter in law. So tell us tell us
about her as a person, because I think a lot
of people would want to read the book to get
some of those insights.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yes, I think the book it's not only just a
biography about Margaret Heckler, which will detail to the readers.
It starts in Ireland with her father who came from Limerick,
a family of nine, into Ellis Island, and there met
her mother. Anyway, she became an unwanted child given away
(25:56):
at birth. So you will learn that in the book
that this woman's rise into the highest quarters of power
came from a very fragile and wounded child who was
raised in a boarding house in Queens, New York, in
the Irish borough there and with her being fortunate enough
(26:18):
to be raised by a woman, a seventy five year
old woman who couldn't afford to just work as a
laundress anymore because of her age, she took on this
baby and raised Margaret O'Shaughnessy, who would go on to
receive all Catholic school education for free on scholarship, which
(26:41):
was embarrassing to her that she had to make her
own way, and that work ethic is what pushed her
to work hard, but it also gave her a burning
desire to distribute compassion at every position that she had.
So when she came into Congress in nineteen sixty six,
(27:05):
nineteen sixty six with George H. W. Bush him being
the President of the freshman class and her being the
vice president, she would be the only newly elected woman
to Congress in nineteen sixty six, and entering there would
only be ten women out of the five hundred and
thirty five, the majority of those being men. So she
(27:28):
entered a world of men at a time where American
women needed Margaret Heckler. But very few know the story
about her. Yeah, I think she would do there.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I did not know that biographical aspect of her. Now,
the book actually is published on February fourth, you know,
a couple of weeks from now. But is it available
to order? Tell us how folks who have interested in
politics are interested in her story? How can they most
easily get at the book?
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Yes, so the book is been published by Lyons Press
l YO NS. And they can certainly go to my
website Kimberly Heckler kim b E R. L y Heckler
dot com or Amazon or Barnes and Noble. It's there
right now as a pre order, and if they order
it today, it'll come in thirty days. And it certainly
(28:25):
is more than just a biography. It's a rare view
into the behind the scenes world of American politics, where
she rubbed shoulders with leaders from LBJ to Ronald Reagan,
and it details the nineteen sixties to the nineteen eighties
experiences of a woman who successfully broke the glass ceiling
(28:48):
in the sphere of politics that had always been dominated
by men.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Well, I'm sure it's going to be a successful book.
I'm looking forward to reading it. And as they say,
I had the opportunity to spend time covering her and
interviewing her, and I'll be very interested to get your take,
which is obviously from a bit of a different perspective.
But she was always very gracious and always lovely to
(29:15):
deal with. And I wish we had more politicians like
her today. Again, the Peggy Hecklers of the world are
rare today.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
That's for sure, but they are rare her bipartisan side.
She lived during that time where bipartisanship was very popular.
You know, she had people in her parties and in McLean,
Virginia that were Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill diving off the
diving board and deals being made under the Linden Tree.
(29:47):
So she was very much across the aisle doing what
she did, getting the job done for the American people.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, and when she was elected by the way in
sixty six her first term in con I believe that
she had. Was she not prior to that like a
Governor's councilor she had been elected previously. She just didn't
come out of help she was.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
Yes, that's exactly right. She was one of the first
women on the Governor's Council, which is very unique to Massachusetts. Yes,
and so she would not have necessarily won that because
she was a no name and a woman, except someone
had given her a hint that there was a dairy farmer.
This was when milk was delivered in glass bottles to
(30:31):
each home. There was a dairy farmer that would be
willing to put her card vote peg Heckler, which eat
with each bottle of milk for the Governor's Council, and
so within the district that she was running in it
was similar to the congressional district sense Wells Wells lead
of Fall River. Those people in the nineteen sixty two
(30:54):
when she was running would wake up in the morning,
put their cat out, get their milk, and there was
a I'm rocher vote peg Heckler for the Governor's Council.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Won that Gues today someone will be calling that an
inkuy contribution, Kimberly, but I think the Statute of Limitations
as long since running that She also went to Congress
in sixty six. Ed Brooke was elected as a Republican
United States Senator in that election as well, So it's
a very historic election right after the debacle of nineteen
(31:27):
sixty four. Kimberly, thank you very much. I enjoyed it
a lot, looking forward to getting the book, and I
wish you all the success in the world with it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Thank you, Dan. It was my extreme pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Right back at you. Appreciate it very much. When we
get back here, our fourth and final guest tonight, we
will be interviewing coming up on the other side, our
fourth and final guest. He is the Chief Fire Award
and for the Massachusets Department of Conservation and recreat We're
going to talk about whether or not we're going to
have to send people out to California, whether we have already,
(32:00):
and also why what is happening tonight outside of Los
Angeles and in parts of Los Angeles hopefully could never
happen here. We'll talk with David Seleno right after the break.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World
Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio, like.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
To welcome David Seleno. He's the chief fire a warden
for the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation. David, Welcome
to Night's Side. I can't imagine what the people of
California are going through. I'd love to know what your
thoughts are as you watch these horrific flames. I mean,
it looks like a war zone. It looks like an inferno.
(32:42):
I mean, how could this possibly happen in America?
Speaker 6 (32:46):
Yeah, well, it's good to be with you, and you're right.
You know, we all think about that we've seen this.
You know, we've seen this in recent history, not just
in Los Angeles, but Hawaii, you know, Gatlinburg, Tennessee right
in twenty sixteen, and a number of other you know,
(33:07):
fire events that that really catch our eye, you know,
every time they happened, and even for folks that have
that have been involved in the business for a long time,
we're watching this story unfold and you know, it's really
really you know, I.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Remember last fall when we had the brush fires here
in Massachusetts in October. If I'm no mistaken, We didn't
have a lot of rain in September and October, and
you folks were dealing with brush fires all over the state.
I think it's at different times they were thirty or
forty brush fires burning across the small area, but none,
(33:43):
none of them really ever got out of control. What's
the difference, what's the difference between what went on in
California the Santorana wins?
Speaker 6 (33:51):
Is that it that's really it. It's really you know,
wildland fire really breaks down to it's pretty simple. The elements,
the natural elements that influence wild on fire is simply fuels,
weather and topography. And so southern California is no stranger
to the to the Santa Ana winds. It's really it's
(34:12):
really a machine. A high pressure system sets up in
the Great Basin northern Nevada, spins clockwise and forces those
winds through the sant Anna Mountains, and when they come
out of the canyons, they're ringed super dry of any moisture.
They're heated air. It's heated air, and then you put
eighty to one hundred mile an hour wind speeds behind it.
(34:34):
Given the fuel conditions that they're in, super dry fuel conditions,
no rain you know in recent memory there and it's
just a recipe for disaster. And so any spark will
get a fire to start and then you get extreme
fire behavior rapid rates to spread. We actually saw some
(34:55):
of that, some of those conditions even in the fall
here in Massachusetts October and November, which was which was
a historic event for us in modern times to have
that much fire behavior. But we saw some of that
dangerous fire behavior because we had those same elements, super
dry air conditions, a drought that had you know, drought
(35:18):
on set and uh, and very dry fuels.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
So what can we do. I have a friend of
mine in California who today told me that California has
been remiss in not clearing out dead vegetation in in
large parts of that state. Uh. And that may be
a factor as well. At least that's what this friend
of mine insisted upon. Is that is that a factor
(35:45):
as well?
Speaker 6 (35:47):
Well, you know, there's a number of factors in terms
of prevention.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (35:51):
You know, in Massachusetts at least on a lot of
our state lands, you know, we're always uh look into
actually use fire in a way, reintroduce fire to the
landscape to get it back into a cycle. It's a
natural effect on the landscape and it actually has a
you know, it actually mitigates the what we call the
(36:14):
fuel loading, and that's what they're talking about, is lowering
the fuel loading it's available to produce the uh, you know,
the catastrophic fire behavior that they're seeing.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
That would be what I guess we've referred to as
a controlled burn. Correct.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
Yeah, that's that's one of the practices. And it's you know,
it's usually coupled with you know, some sort of mechanical
application as well, uh, you know, and so in combination,
it's all about the end result is trying to sort
of manage that fuel.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Loading application that I'm not familiar with that term.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
It can it can be typically if you if you
think about for us, when we when we when we
look at our pine barrens in southeastern Massachusetts, it's pitch
pine and scrub oak, very volatile fuel. It actually burns
like California chaparral. The only difference is we don't get
those single digit humidities in the Santa Ana winds. But
it's very volatile and actually it's been proven when you
(37:14):
look at history. In nineteen fifty seven of fire and
Plymouth burned fifteen thousand acres and twelve hours. Those were
the right, you know, right conditions. Everything was in alignment,
and that fire burned to the ocean, and so we're
looking at that all the time. It's you know, fire
is a natural effect that keeps that forest and down there.
(37:37):
But we combine that with mechanical finning and mowing, especially
around our human values at risks on the periphery of
that state forest. And that's one of our big objectives
there when we're using those practices. The challenge that they
have in California is with that chaparral and some of
the shrub fuel types, and you know, those areas of
(38:00):
seeing fires repeatedly, the grasses grow back, they have their
periods of moisture. Those that vegetation takes advantage of that regrows,
and then the next time they get drought conditions, you know,
that fuel.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Is There's a second, real quick, I've only got about
thirty seconds left, David. Have any you know, professional firefighters.
Have they been dispatched to Massachusetts or has California asked
for any help? What's going on there? If you could,
if you could wrap that for me in about thirty seconds.
Speaker 6 (38:34):
Yeah, we don't have anybody mobilized to California. We have
a system in place nationally to do that and support it.
We sent two fire crews this past summer to help
out in the Rocky Mountain region, and we've been we've
been mobilizing crew since nineteen eighty five all over the country.
But California has a lot of resources. If they exhaust
(38:55):
those resources, they'll start looking farther into the other parts
of the country and we'll be ready to go. And
so we're always we're keeping the breast of the situation
just in case, you know, the outside chance that it
comes to that.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Great David Selina, again, thanks for the work you do
so that something like that never is less likely much
less likely ever to take place here in Massachusetts. I
appreciate your time tonight as well. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Me, very welcome. When we get back, we're going to
talk about a state Supreme Court ruling today that we'll
grab a lot of attention in tomorrow mornings headlines are
ruling in the MBTA Massachusetts MBTA Communities Law. Coming back
on Night's side with guests right after the break
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZY, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, good evening, every one, thanks very much to call.
My name is Dan Ray, the host of the program
called The Nightside. We are a year number eighteen here
on WBZ, rolling right along through a very chilly January
of twenty twenty five today. For those of you who
are keeping score in his January eighth we will be
with you all the way to midnight. We have a
(00:28):
number of topics of interest coming up tonight. But in
our first hour we talked with four newsmakers. Going to
talk about the neurovirus outbreak, coming up with doctor Paul Sachs,
going to talk with former ambassador and former congress Woman
Margaret Heckler's a daughter in law, Kimberly Heckler, who has
written a book about Margaret Heckler's legacy, and also talk
(00:51):
with David Sealino about the Los Angeles wildfires. But we
are going to start off tonight talk a little bit
about former President Jimmy Carter, who of course passed away
a few days ago and tonight is lying in state
at the US Capitol. Joining us is Bruce Percellt. He
is the chair of the board of the Edward M.
(01:12):
Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate, a great institution
over at Columbia Point right next to the John F.
Kennedy Presidential Library. And Bruce Parslett, you had an opportunity,
I guess, to spend some time with Jimmy Carter, either
while he was president, but perhaps even more importantly after
he was president. Welcome to Night's side and tell us
(01:34):
about your experiences with Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you, Dan. I had the opportunity to serve as
chairman of the Maker Excuse me. I did the Make
a Wish Foundation as well as Habitat for Humanity Sure,
and I spent a tremendous amount of time. In fact,
Habitat built the largest urban habitat project uned States on
(01:58):
Bluehill Avenue in Boston. And I was invited to Plaines,
Georgia with a small group and we spent the weekend
with Jimmy Carter and his wife in planes and really
got to see him in action, and it was fascinating.
(02:22):
He was exactly as advertised. He was incredibly genuine, and
we went to a church service where he gave a sermon.
He afterwards invited us to go to a wedding where
a young lady's father had passed away, and he had
(02:45):
read about it, and he volunteered to stand in for
the girl's dad and walk her down the aisle, and
it was incredibly genuine. There was no press, there was
no media, there was no advanced publicity. This was a
(03:08):
person who did really wonderful deeds after being president. And
you know, the word on Jimmy Carter was that he
was a very ineffective president, but a very successful ex president.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Rino Bruce, you and I have something in common. I
spent a day with Jimmy Carter in Plains, Georgia in
nineteen eighty six. I suspect you were there a little
after me. I had an opportunity to meet then Governor
Carter as he was running for president, interviewed him while
he was president, and then after his presidency, I did
a documentary an hour on tip O'Neil and tip O'Neil,
(03:49):
a rain trust to spend a day with Jimmy Carter
in Plains, Georgia, and it was one of the most
interesting days of my life. And you know, I don't
want to try to top your story because you spent
I think a lot more up close and personal time. Well,
we're driving that day with my crew to go see
former President Carter and planes, and I happened to notice
(04:13):
these trees, and me being a northern boy, I said
to one of my camera men, whose name was Glenn.
He was from It's from New Orleans actually with a
deep Southern accent, I said, Glenn, what type of trees
are those? And he looked at me and he said,
those are Peakan trees. Everybody knows Peakan trees. I did not,
so a couple of minutes later he said, well, let
me ask you how did peanuts grow? So I thought
(04:34):
Glenn was going to try to, you know, give me
a hard time, and I said, I'm not sure. I
think everybody knew peanuts growing a vine. Well, we meet Carter, President,
former President Carter, have a great time, and in the
protocol there is generally the crew doesn't say much. And
as we were, as he was leaving later in the
after our interview and all, Glenn piped up in his
(04:57):
Southern accent and saidmit to President, I want to know
how do peanuts grow? And I was horrified that Jimmy
Carter probably thought that this was some TV camera guy
from Boston, some Yankee boy giving him a hard time,
and I jumped in, I said, I'm mister President. I said,
Glenn actually works for WBZ, but he is from New
Orleans and that is his accent. And President Carter then
(05:20):
spent about twenty minutes explaining in great detail to Glenn
how peanuts grew. Glenn did not know that they grew
on a vine underground. So you see that side of him,
and I'm sure you saw it in the same way.
And he was really very normal guy, probably one of
the most normal in terms of being like you or
(05:42):
me normal guys that ever held the office.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, and he also did not monetize his presidency. He
did not charge for speeches after he retired or lost
his election, did not enrich himself. He went back to planes,
moved into the same house that he and Rosam Carter
(06:08):
lived in before he was elected. And you know today
that's a very different scenario. But he was what you
saw on TV. He was totally grounded, and you know,
he was not a politician, and that did not serve
him well while he was in office, but it served
(06:30):
him very well after he was in office.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, my view of him that he was the victim
of some bad timing. He became president in the wake
of Watergate, the Vietnam War, the country was kind of down.
They wanted someone who was different, and he certainly was
that hem ount of nowhere to become the Democratic nominee.
And he did have some accomplishments in office. You kind
(06:57):
of downplay the accord that he got Monock and Vegan
and I wants a dot to sign, amongst others. Not
bad for a guy who was a peanut farm in
Georgia to pull those two together.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean, he did suffer from some bad luck.
I mean, the oil crisis was disastrous, and the hospit
situation and the attempted rescue and a lot of those
events tainted his presidency to this day. But his performance
(07:31):
after leaving the White House, you know, has been exemplary
and I think sets a very high standard for how
a former president should conduct himself.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And he had a lot of time. You know, he
had the benefit of about forty four years as a
post president, which I don't think any other president has
come close to having. Someone mentioned to me that his
post presidency was almost as long as the entire life
(08:03):
of President Kennedy.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, that's that's that math is about right. You know,
I want to share an amusing story with you, if
that's okay. I'm going to try to be as discreet
about it as possible. But we had gone to dinner
at a small restaurant and it was a very very
(08:29):
simple restaurant. It was more like a meeting house. And
I excused myself before the dinner to go to the
men's room and there were journals and I was doing
what I was intending to do when I went there,
(08:49):
and I'm standing up and I hear this little noise
out of the corner of my ear, and I turned
to the right and there's Jimmy Carter and we are
both going about out our business and the same thing.
He asked me about my background, and that was how
I first met him. So, you know, today there'd be
(09:12):
secret service all over the place and so forth. But
I don't know many people who can say that that
is how they met a former president, but it was.
It was an amusing experience.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
ABC used to do these documentaries called up Close and Personal.
That would have that would have fit that character. So yeah,
that probably would have bruce you You are the chair
of a of a great institute, the Edward M. Kennedy
Institute for the US Senate. People may not know as
much about it as they do about the Kennedy Library,
but it is a fabulous facility. I actually hosted and
(09:50):
interviewed Natan Sharansky, the Soviet dissident now Israeli politician, at
the Institute about ten years or so ago. It is
a fabulous building and anyone who's interested in politics needs
to see that building, to get inside and see the
(10:11):
creation that is the is the identical size of the
floor and the seats of the United States Senate. So
I just I can't tell you what a big fan
I am of the facility that you now share. So
thanks for what you do, and thanks for joining us tonight.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
You're very very welcome.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
All right, Bruce personally of the Kennedy Institute, Thanks so much. Bruce.
When we get back, we are going to change topics
and we're going to talk about more difficult topic, and
that is the neuro virus outbreak with doctor Paul Sachs
coming back on night Side right after this break. My
(10:48):
name is Dan Ray. You listen to WBZ Boston. This
is You can listen to us on ten thirty of
the A and dial. Also can download the new I
Heard app when you would like, and you can listen
to us anywhere the world, from anywhere in the world,
any hour of the day. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
All right, I think everyone has heard of the neuro virus,
and it is everywhere apparently at this point, and we're
going to talk with doctor Paul Sachs about the neural virus.
He's the clinical director of the Division of Infectious Diseases
(11:35):
for Brigham and Women's Hospital, one of my favorite hospitals
here in New England, the hospital that our great friend,
doctor Larry Cohne was a cardiac surgeon at for for decades.
Dr Sachs, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I'm well, Thank you, Dan, how are you?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm doing just great. I don't know if you overlapped
with doctor Larry Cohne, but he's a great friend. He
was also a great contributor to this program. Whenever I
think of Brigham and Women's Hospital, I think of my
friend Larry and he would commit and do two hours
in the radio and just enjoy himself. I told him
that in his next life. Unfortunately he passed a few
(12:14):
years ago. I said he was going to be a
radio or he had been a radio person in a
prior exist. And so I've had great luck with doctors
from Brigham and Women's, and I know we're going to
have great luck with you. What's going on with no
real virus? I always think of that as something that
is an outbreak on a cruise ship. And now it's
supposedly all over Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
What's going on, Well, it's actually all over the United States.
There's a huge increase in neuro virus cases. And you
know someone who's had it. Everybody knows someone who's had it.
I have a close friend who's had it. I've got
patients to have it. It's basically the kind of the
food poisoning illness of come that both directions, the upper
(12:52):
direction in the lower direction. That's very, very difficult. So
it's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But I love you using those technical medical terms.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Go right ahead, doctor, Well, I just I just think
that people should be aware that this is out there
and circulating, and it's very contagious and the best protection
is really to wash your hands carefully. It's getting back
the lessons that we have learned from since we were
in school, which is basically the best way to prevent
(13:22):
infections to wash your hands. And this is true about noravirus.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes, as they say in kindergarten, you know, wash your hands,
work well with others, pay attention. So I got to
go in life when you really think about it, Look,
here's my question, how does does this disease? Does it
have a cycle? Meaning this was designated that every seven
(13:46):
years this thing comes at us as a vengeance or
were they able to trace it and say, hey, this
year we had I think about cruise ships. Now, maybe
I'm dumb about that, but I didn't know if they
were like five or six cruise ships that simultaneously sent
a couple of thousand people back into America, you know
who had been infected, what's the what's the genesis of it?
(14:09):
Are we able to know?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
So you're absolutely right about cruise ships. Cruise ships are
intensifying locations for infections because people are on the boat,
they really can't escape, and once someone gets sick, they're
all going to the same place. To eat, and so
if there's a food borne illness or anlys that's spread
by poor sanitation, cruise ships amplify them, and so those
(14:32):
amplifiers do cause these big outbreaks. But what's happened this year,
and for reasons that are not quite clear, is that
it's actually happening in the community at large, and so
we're seeing way more cases than we usually do, and
that's that's why it's newsworthy. I do think it also
relates to the underlying community. When we have immunity to
these viral infections, it tends to protect us. And those
(14:54):
immunity community can fade gradually over years, so maybe this
year is particularly particular vulnerable, and that's why we're seeing
so much, so many cases.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I dealt with an upper respiratory affection for about two weeks,
and since I have you, I'm going to ask you
about it, because my understanding is that there's a lot
of that stuff going around. I was sent off to
chest X ray to make sure I didn't have pneumonia,
and my doctor kind of said to me, well, you
can call it ur upper respiratory if you want to
call it bronchitis. Is are those the two you know
(15:28):
again different body locations, the upper respiratory which you just
couldn't stop coughing and you couldn't get anything up to
minimize the coughing. Are those the two big problems that
we're looking at this winter.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So welcome to the winter. The winter is when we
see more of these infections. We're more aware of it
now than we used to be because of COVID nineteen
and indeed, in every winter even before twenty twenty, we
started seeing more infections and most years who would just say, oh,
it's the flu season. But now we're really hyper aware
of these and this year, just like all years, we're
(16:04):
seeing lots of viral respiratory infections. And the added bonus
joking is that if you're seeing more gas from intestinal infections,
which is neurovirus, this is really off.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I get paid to ask questions, I truly do. That's okay.
You get paid to solve people's medical problems. Is there
is this about fifty in terms of these two these
are the two biggies of the winter. Are they about
the same in terms of the number of people that
have been affected? Or is neuro virus?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know much more about and about the bronchial upper
respiratory infections.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Well, I can't give you numbers to compare, but I
will tell you that if someone has neurovirus a bad case,
they're they're incapacitated. You know, they have a couple of
days at home where they're not doing anything. You know,
And anyone who's had this illness understands what I'm talking about.
And you know, I mean again just to tell you
(17:03):
that that it's first of all, it's very contagious, but
not one hundred percent. So if you're in a household
where there's a person who has it, it does make
sense to try to avoid the person. It makes sense
to try to wash your hands frequently, to not share
food with that person, and you could not get it.
It is contagious, but not one hundred percent. And second,
(17:24):
you know the viro respistory infections, those are spread predominantly
by airborne transmission, so it's very different. So nor virus
is spread more by contaminated food and water and by
contacting surfaces, whereas the residtory viruses are spread more by
you know, the air. That's something we've learned very clearly.
So they're two different things. But they both get both
get increased in the winter time.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I follow the numbers that are released every week about
the number of COVID cases, and there's always a few
deaths related to COVID. Sure is COVID seems to stabilized.
From the numbers I'm looking at it. It's always about
fifteen hundred new cases a year in a state with
six point seven million. That's a decimal point. But you know,
(18:10):
I learned of a friend of mine today, not going
to identify who that person was, who was diagnosed with COVID.
I took COVID tests when I first got this bronchitis
when it was COVID is not the big problem this year.
It's neurovirus and or the bronchitis, is what I'm getting
from our conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
So you're absolutely right. COVID is still there because your
friend had it, and we all know people have had it,
but it's not nearly as serious as it was in
the first one to two years of the pandemic. That's
because of our built up immunity and we have built
community from prior infections plus prior vaccinations, so we should
still pay attention to it. And it's very lethal potentially
(18:53):
to people who have underlying medical problems, but it's not
the same problem, so it should be contextualized other things
that people can get. So I would say that this season,
it's it's influenza right now, there's tons of flu out there,
it's covid, it's it's nouro virus, it's it's a it's
a mix. But that doesn't mean that we should stop
(19:14):
interacting with people, stop having our holiday celebrations, which has finished.
This is part of the package of being in a
winter location, and it just means that every year should
just beware that this is the season where these infections
start increasing.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Here's my dumbest question of the night. Will the really
bitterly cold weather of the last few days in the
next couple of days, will that knock a lot of
this stuff down? Or is that just an old lives tale.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I want to be polite to you, but it really
it's very unclear. I mean, the bitter cold weather certainly
puts people in a situation where they're more likely to
huddle inside and not interact with others, so potentially it could.
But on the other hand, you know, the outdoor activities
that are very safe for respiratory tract infections are basically
(20:05):
non starters, so it's really hard to say good question though.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, as they say, they pay me to ask questions,
and I try to do my best here. You did
a great job, though. You have lived up to the
doctor Larry Cone Brigham and Women's Hospital standard, which is
a high bar.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Here, nice, I I want you to know a great
cardiac surgeon. I remember him fondly.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Just a wonderful guy. Just a wonderful guy. Doctor Paul Sachs,
you sound the same way. Thanks so much. Love to
have you back. You make it understandable even for people
like me, which is quite an accomplishment. Thank you, doctor,
appreciate it very much. Have a great, great rest of
the week and weekend, and stay well.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Thanks to help.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Dan. All right, when we get back, we're going to
talk a little bit about politics. We're going to talk
about a Massachusetts native who served in Congress, was a
cabinet secretary and eventually ambassador to Ireland. Congresswoman, Ambassador and Secretary,
Margaret Heckler, going to talk with her daughter in law,
(21:09):
who has written a book about Margaret Heckler her legacy
as a trail blazing Force for Justice inequality. Going to
be back on Nightside right after the news at the
bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
It's Nightside with Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
All right, we are back. And I had an opportunity
during my career as a teller's reporter to cover Congresswoman
Margaret Heckler, both while she was a member of the
House of Representatives representing Massachusetts, later as she served as
(21:47):
a Cabinet secretary in the Reagan administration and beyond that
as ambassador to Ireland and with US. Is Kimberly Heckler,
the author and also daughter in law of Margaret Heckler,
with a very special tribute and a book entitled A
Woman of Firsts. Kimberly Heckler. Welcome to Nightside. How are you.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
I am doing great. Thank you so much, Dan, Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
You're really welcome. I again, had plenty of interaction with
your late mother in law. She was a Republican here
in Massachusetts, which it was a difficult road to road
to uh to travel. H A proud Boston Universe, Boston
(22:36):
College alumnus, UH and and and and she touched all
the bases, as they say, as an elected official, as
a Cabinet secretary and as an ambassador. Uh tell us
what what will you tell us about her legacy?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And and why? Obviously you had tremendous access to her.
So I'm sure that's why you decided to write the book.
But what will people learn from the book that they
need to learn?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Well, thank you, Dan. I married Margaret Heckler's only son,
the baby of the three siblings two daughters and a son,
and John Heckler. So Margaret lived in Arlington, Virginia, no
further than a mile away from us as a married
couple for my entired married life, and so I didn't
(23:26):
get to know Margaret until she was ambassador to Ireland.
And at that point I also wasn't aware at the
time that she was the most powerful American in Ireland.
And so through raising kids and Sunday night dinners, some
of the stories came out. And basically most of the wonderful,
(23:52):
amazing legacy pieces that make her historically significant I learned
in her life years. Because she didn't really go into
detail about how she wrote the law for women to
get credit and credit cards in their own names for
the first time in American history. I had no idea
(24:14):
that she was one of the primary sponsors for the
Equal Rights Amendment as a Republican, the stories that I
learned about what she did as a Health and Human
Services secretary, that she was quoted as being one of
the most powerful women in America in nineteen eighty three.
(24:34):
Those stories came out later when I was responsible for
the boxes upon boxes of her items. Not mentioned that
over yes, her papers, and not to mention the two
hundred two hundred boxes that are stored at the Burns
Library at Boston College.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
She certainly had an imprint. I actually, besides covering her
here and in Washington, did a fairly extensive sit down
interview with her at the US Embassy in Phoenix Park
in Dublin many many years ago. Oh, she was the
ambassador to Ireland. And as a person. I knew her
(25:21):
obviously as a political leader, but you knew her as
a political leader, but you also got to know her
as a daughter in law. So tell us tell us
about her as a person, because I think a lot
of people would want to read the book to get
some of those insights.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yes, I think the book it's not only just a
biography about Margaret Heckler, which will detail to the readers.
It starts in Ireland with her father who came from Limerick,
a family of nine, into Ellis Island, and there met
her mother. Anyway, she became an unwanted child given away
(25:56):
at birth. So you will learn that in the book
that this woman's rise into the highest quarters of power
came from a very fragile and wounded child who was
raised in a boarding house in Queens, New York, in
the Irish borough there and with her being fortunate enough
(26:18):
to be raised by a woman, a seventy five year
old woman who couldn't afford to just work as a
laundress anymore because of her age, she took on this
baby and raised Margaret O'Shaughnessy, who would go on to
receive all Catholic school education for free on scholarship, which
(26:41):
was embarrassing to her that she had to make her
own way, and that work ethic is what pushed her
to work hard, but it also gave her a burning
desire to distribute compassion at every position that she had.
So when she came into Congress in nineteen sixty six,
(27:05):
nineteen sixty six with George H. W. Bush him being
the President of the freshman class and her being the
vice president, she would be the only newly elected woman
to Congress in nineteen sixty six, and entering there would
only be ten women out of the five hundred and
thirty five, the majority of those being men. So she
(27:28):
entered a world of men at a time where American
women needed Margaret Heckler. But very few know the story
about her. Yeah, I think she would do there.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I did not know that biographical aspect of her. Now,
the book actually is published on February fourth, you know,
a couple of weeks from now. But is it available
to order? Tell us how folks who have interested in
politics are interested in her story? How can they most
easily get at the book?
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Yes, so the book is been published by Lyons Press
l YO NS. And they can certainly go to my
website Kimberly Heckler kim b E R. L y Heckler
dot com or Amazon or Barnes and Noble. It's there
right now as a pre order, and if they order
it today, it'll come in thirty days. And it certainly
(28:25):
is more than just a biography. It's a rare view
into the behind the scenes world of American politics, where
she rubbed shoulders with leaders from LBJ to Ronald Reagan,
and it details the nineteen sixties to the nineteen eighties
experiences of a woman who successfully broke the glass ceiling
(28:48):
in the sphere of politics that had always been dominated
by men.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Well, I'm sure it's going to be a successful book.
I'm looking forward to reading it. And as they say,
I had the opportunity to spend time covering her and
interviewing her, and I'll be very interested to get your take,
which is obviously from a bit of a different perspective.
But she was always very gracious and always lovely to
(29:15):
deal with. And I wish we had more politicians like
her today. Again, the Peggy Hecklers of the world are
rare today.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
That's for sure, but they are rare her bipartisan side.
She lived during that time where bipartisanship was very popular.
You know, she had people in her parties and in McLean,
Virginia that were Ted Kennedy, Tip O'Neill diving off the
diving board and deals being made under the Linden Tree.
(29:47):
So she was very much across the aisle doing what
she did, getting the job done for the American people.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, and when she was elected by the way in
sixty six her first term in con I believe that
she had. Was she not prior to that like a
Governor's councilor she had been elected previously. She just didn't
come out of help she was.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
Yes, that's exactly right. She was one of the first
women on the Governor's Council, which is very unique to Massachusetts. Yes,
and so she would not have necessarily won that because
she was a no name and a woman, except someone
had given her a hint that there was a dairy farmer.
This was when milk was delivered in glass bottles to
(30:31):
each home. There was a dairy farmer that would be
willing to put her card vote peg Heckler, which eat
with each bottle of milk for the Governor's Council, and
so within the district that she was running in it
was similar to the congressional district sense Wells Wells lead
of Fall River. Those people in the nineteen sixty two
(30:54):
when she was running would wake up in the morning,
put their cat out, get their milk, and there was
a I'm rocher vote peg Heckler for the Governor's Council.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Won that Gues today someone will be calling that an
inkuy contribution, Kimberly, but I think the Statute of Limitations
as long since running that She also went to Congress
in sixty six. Ed Brooke was elected as a Republican
United States Senator in that election as well, So it's
a very historic election right after the debacle of nineteen
(31:27):
sixty four. Kimberly, thank you very much. I enjoyed it
a lot, looking forward to getting the book, and I
wish you all the success in the world with it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Thank you, Dan. It was my extreme pleasure.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Right back at you. Appreciate it very much. When we
get back here, our fourth and final guest tonight, we
will be interviewing coming up on the other side, our
fourth and final guest. He is the Chief Fire Award
and for the Massachusets Department of Conservation and recreat We're
going to talk about whether or not we're going to
have to send people out to California, whether we have already,
(32:00):
and also why what is happening tonight outside of Los
Angeles and in parts of Los Angeles hopefully could never
happen here. We'll talk with David Seleno right after the break.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World
Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio, like.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
To welcome David Seleno. He's the chief fire a warden
for the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation. David, Welcome
to Night's Side. I can't imagine what the people of
California are going through. I'd love to know what your
thoughts are as you watch these horrific flames. I mean,
it looks like a war zone. It looks like an inferno.
(32:42):
I mean, how could this possibly happen in America?
Speaker 6 (32:46):
Yeah, well, it's good to be with you, and you're right.
You know, we all think about that we've seen this.
You know, we've seen this in recent history, not just
in Los Angeles, but Hawaii, you know, Gatlinburg, Tennessee right
in twenty sixteen, and a number of other you know,
(33:07):
fire events that that really catch our eye, you know,
every time they happened, and even for folks that have
that have been involved in the business for a long time,
we're watching this story unfold and you know, it's really
really you know, I.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Remember last fall when we had the brush fires here
in Massachusetts in October. If I'm no mistaken, We didn't
have a lot of rain in September and October, and
you folks were dealing with brush fires all over the state.
I think it's at different times they were thirty or
forty brush fires burning across the small area, but none,
(33:43):
none of them really ever got out of control. What's
the difference, what's the difference between what went on in
California the Santorana wins?
Speaker 6 (33:51):
Is that it that's really it. It's really you know,
wildland fire really breaks down to it's pretty simple. The elements,
the natural elements that influence wild on fire is simply fuels,
weather and topography. And so southern California is no stranger
to the to the Santa Ana winds. It's really it's
(34:12):
really a machine. A high pressure system sets up in
the Great Basin northern Nevada, spins clockwise and forces those
winds through the sant Anna Mountains, and when they come
out of the canyons, they're ringed super dry of any moisture.
They're heated air. It's heated air, and then you put
eighty to one hundred mile an hour wind speeds behind it.
(34:34):
Given the fuel conditions that they're in, super dry fuel conditions,
no rain you know in recent memory there and it's
just a recipe for disaster. And so any spark will
get a fire to start and then you get extreme
fire behavior rapid rates to spread. We actually saw some
(34:55):
of that, some of those conditions even in the fall
here in Massachusetts October and November, which was which was
a historic event for us in modern times to have
that much fire behavior. But we saw some of that
dangerous fire behavior because we had those same elements, super
dry air conditions, a drought that had you know, drought
(35:18):
on set and uh, and very dry fuels.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
So what can we do. I have a friend of
mine in California who today told me that California has
been remiss in not clearing out dead vegetation in in
large parts of that state. Uh. And that may be
a factor as well. At least that's what this friend
of mine insisted upon. Is that is that a factor
(35:45):
as well?
Speaker 6 (35:47):
Well, you know, there's a number of factors in terms
of prevention.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (35:51):
You know, in Massachusetts at least on a lot of
our state lands, you know, we're always uh look into
actually use fire in a way, reintroduce fire to the
landscape to get it back into a cycle. It's a
natural effect on the landscape and it actually has a
you know, it actually mitigates the what we call the
(36:14):
fuel loading, and that's what they're talking about, is lowering
the fuel loading it's available to produce the uh, you know,
the catastrophic fire behavior that they're seeing.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
That would be what I guess we've referred to as
a controlled burn. Correct.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
Yeah, that's that's one of the practices. And it's you know,
it's usually coupled with you know, some sort of mechanical
application as well, uh, you know, and so in combination,
it's all about the end result is trying to sort
of manage that fuel.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Loading application that I'm not familiar with that term.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
It can it can be typically if you if you
think about for us, when we when we when we
look at our pine barrens in southeastern Massachusetts, it's pitch
pine and scrub oak, very volatile fuel. It actually burns
like California chaparral. The only difference is we don't get
those single digit humidities in the Santa Ana winds. But
it's very volatile and actually it's been proven when you
(37:14):
look at history. In nineteen fifty seven of fire and
Plymouth burned fifteen thousand acres and twelve hours. Those were
the right, you know, right conditions. Everything was in alignment,
and that fire burned to the ocean, and so we're
looking at that all the time. It's you know, fire
is a natural effect that keeps that forest and down there.
(37:37):
But we combine that with mechanical finning and mowing, especially
around our human values at risks on the periphery of
that state forest. And that's one of our big objectives
there when we're using those practices. The challenge that they
have in California is with that chaparral and some of
the shrub fuel types, and you know, those areas of
(38:00):
seeing fires repeatedly, the grasses grow back, they have their
periods of moisture. Those that vegetation takes advantage of that regrows,
and then the next time they get drought conditions, you know,
that fuel.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Is There's a second, real quick, I've only got about
thirty seconds left, David. Have any you know, professional firefighters.
Have they been dispatched to Massachusetts or has California asked
for any help? What's going on there? If you could,
if you could wrap that for me in about thirty seconds.
Speaker 6 (38:34):
Yeah, we don't have anybody mobilized to California. We have
a system in place nationally to do that and support it.
We sent two fire crews this past summer to help
out in the Rocky Mountain region, and we've been we've
been mobilizing crew since nineteen eighty five all over the country.
But California has a lot of resources. If they exhaust
(38:55):
those resources, they'll start looking farther into the other parts
of the country and we'll be ready to go. And
so we're always we're keeping the breast of the situation
just in case, you know, the outside chance that it
comes to that.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Great David Selina, again, thanks for the work you do
so that something like that never is less likely much
less likely ever to take place here in Massachusetts. I
appreciate your time tonight as well. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Me, very welcome. When we get back, we're going to
talk about a state Supreme Court ruling today that we'll
grab a lot of attention in tomorrow mornings headlines are
ruling in the MBTA Massachusetts MBTA Communities Law. Coming back
on Night's side with guests right after the break
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