June 20, 2025 • 39 mins
8:05PM: The disappearance of Debbie Melo that occurred on June 20, 2000 with Boston Globe Cold Case Files Reporter Emily Sweeney.
8:15PM: Mysteries of the Egypian pharoahs with archaelogist Dr. Zahi Hawass!
8:30PM:
8:45PM:
8:15PM: Mysteries of the Egypian pharoahs with archaelogist Dr. Zahi Hawass!
8:30PM:
8:45PM:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice eyes.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm going razy Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Thanks Ema. Great to hear your voice here on WBZ.
My name is Dan Ray. I am the host of Nightside,
heard every Monday through Friday night from Aid and to
a midnight I will tell you right out front, I'm
dealing with a little bit of a congested head cold.
You don't need to necessarily know that. But if I
sound a little different tonight, that's why. And I'm going
(00:27):
to get through this show with my pal Noah thought
to let me who is back in the control room.
Rob Brooks is off for the holiday. I'm juneteenth, as
is Marina. We worked with Karen Boussemi today, so we're
all set. We're ready to go. And I had a
tough night at the last hour last night. I was
(00:47):
really coughing, and I apologize for that. But I like
my job and I like what I do, and I'll
try to get through it and just work through it tonight.
That's ed tomorrow night and I can rest over the weekend.
Go to start off tonight with one of the great
friends of nights Side, the great Emily Sweeney, reporter at
the Boston Globe. She runs the Cold Case files. And
(01:11):
also she's the blater Tales columnist. Emily. I actually remember
this cold case. It goes back obviously twenty five years tomorrow.
This is really interesting. Tell us about the disappearance twenty
five years ago of a young woman named Debbie Mello.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, Dan, this is one of the cases that really
really gets to me, and I appreciate you taking the
time to talk about it and let people know that
this is still an open case.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Debbie Mello is a mother at two, and she was
thirty years old when she went missing June twentieth, two thousand,
so that was twenty five years ago tomorrow. The last
person who was said that saw her alive was a husband, Louis,
and he said that they got into a fight in
Weymouth while they were driving and she demanded to get
(02:07):
let out of the car and Route eighteen. He said
he did, and she got out. She left their pocketbook behind.
He drove a little bit more. When he turned around
and came back, he says she was gone, and that
spot a major search up in Weymouth. She lived in Taunton,
you know, her and Louis lived in Taunton, and searches
(02:27):
were also conducted there, but she hasn't been seen since.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Wow. That that is a stumper, because, first of all,
even if someone was got into an argument with a spouse,
they were married, correct, Yes, Okay, So if someone you
get into an argument with a spouse and someone is
so angry or upset they asked you to pull over
and they get out of the car but lead their pocketbook,
(02:52):
that doesn't make a lot of sense because and.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Ruby eighteen too is a tough spot to be let out.
You know, it's very busy roadway.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, and no one else, no one else. I'm sure
the police probably ran a roadblock for a few nights
and did what they had to do and ask questions
if anybody saw it. Did anyone actually see her walking
along the roadway?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
There was no no sightings of her, which which is
also strange. And you know there searches were conducted up
in Weymouth and also down in Taunton, and tomorrow there's
going to be an event, actually a memorial pac in
Taunton in her honor. Friends. It's open to the public.
(03:36):
Family are going to gather and you know, just remember her.
And you know, again it's great to spread the word
that this is still an open case. If anybody saw anything,
knows anything, they can contact Norfolk District Attorney's office or
the state police.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
So let me come back to the case at hand.
At what time of night was this argument? Was it
at dusk? Was it, you know, early in the evening.
When did mister Mellow say that his wife demanded to
get out of the car.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
It's broad daylight in the afternoon between three and four
o'clock and June twentieth was a Tuesday, so it was
a weekday.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Good weather conditions, I'm sure you've checked that out. Decent weather,
typical June weather.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah, there wasn't any you know, extreme weather or anything.
And again, it's just it's very odd.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
The last another person who saw her alive was she
went to a doctor's appointment that day and that's where
Louis kind of picked her up. And again that was
right on Route eighteen and Weymouth, the doctor's office, so
she was seen there that afternoon, and what happened to
her after that is a complete mystery.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
What was the argument over.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Money? The Globe actually interviewed Louis three days after Debbie disappeared,
and he said that she flipped out. They were arguing
about money. Apparently, you know, her family told me that,
you know, a family member said it was over like
maybe face cream or something, that she bought a dermatologist's office.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And wow, any insurance policies cashed?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know that I'm not aware of. I know Louis
ended up getting you know, divorced from Debbie while she
was you know, still missing, and you know, ended up
getting remarried.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And is he still living? Is he still living in
the area.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
As far as I know, he's still living in the
same house. I called him for comment and he told
me to f myself and hung up.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That's pleasant. Wow, well, Emily, that sounds like one that boy,
the fact that that no one, uh, this is like
disappearing into thin air. This is a real tough one.
And it's pretty recent in terms of I mean, you
(06:14):
do some cases that go back fifty years where there's
probably no hope, but maybe there's some hope here. Did
she have? Did Debbie? I know I'm asking you questions
that I probably don't have the right to ask, but
I'm just trying to put on trying to put my no.
I know that, and you'll probably be able to answer
most of it, because I'm sure there's nothing I could
ask you that you wouldn't have anticipated. Did she have
(06:36):
any close friends that that that she that the police
have talked to or talked to at the time, Because
if she did, let us say, get out of the
car and just was fed up and decided that she
was going to go off and do some other life,
I got to assume that she would have she had kids.
(06:58):
I mean, the kids couldn't have and she's twenty five.
The kids couldn't have been that old.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, No, her she had two young kids that she
absolutely adored, absolutely adored, and that that was one thing
that that's come up again and again. And her mother,
who sadly passed away, you know, before knowing you know
what happened to her daughter.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, her mother.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It was very adamant that Debbie wouldn't have left gone
anywhere without the children, her two kids. And you know,
there's a lot of tragedy has followed the family too,
since her stepfather was beaten to death and it actually
got into a fight with a guy over Debbie's disappearance,
like an argument. He ended up dying and her mother
(07:42):
passed away, and also her son, Louis Junior, passed away
not too long ago as well. So it's a really
sad story.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Louis Junior natural causes or.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I'm not sure. So I had just to respect the
family's privacy, but I get that he was hot broken,
you know, really sad case. And if anybody you know
is in the Taunton area that wants to participate in
the vigil, you know, tomorrow night, it's happening from six
to eight at Memorial Pack And you know, if anybody
(08:17):
has any information at all, maybe you remember something, maybe
you saw something on Root eighteen or something in Taunton
or anything, you know, please contact authorities. And also too,
if you don't mind me giving a shout out to
the Globe Case Cold Case Files newsletter.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Sure absolutely we're going to be.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
You know, putting Debbie's story out there on the newsletter
and you can sign up for it at Globe dot Com.
Forward Slash Cold Case Files.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Do that one a little more slowly so everybody can
take advantage of it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Go ahead, Emily, Okay, so it's Globe dot Com Forward
Flash Cold Case Files.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I never know the difference between a forward in a
backwards slash. They all look the same to me.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, yeah, but you know those URLs, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
No, no, I get it, but I've they look to
me like it's angled from northeast to southwest all the time.
So I don't know if that's the full to the backward,
but I've never seen anything that goes in any other direction,
So I just say slash anyway. Emily, thanks for the
work you do, and I'm just hoping that someone can
(09:27):
can you know, for the sake of the family, and
for the sake of her child that has left, and
for her husband, that this case can get solved. Thanks
so much, deep appreciate it very much. Okay, we love
having you on the show, trust me, and we'll see
you in a couple of weeks and we'll talk to you
in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Sounds good, Dan, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thanks, And if I don't talk to you, have a
great fourth of July. Okay, have fun, Oh you too,
Thanks Emily. When we get back, we're going to talk
with a very famous archaeologist. He's an Egyptian archaeologist, former
Minister of and Antiquities in Egypt, doctor Zahi Hawaas. This
is going to be a really interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And he's going to be speaking in Boston next month
on July ninth at the Western Seaport, So I think
you'll be very interested to hear what he has to
say back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Night Side Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I'm delighted to welcome doctor Zahi Hawas. He is an
Egyptian archeologist. He's an Egyptian pologist and former Minister of
Tourism and Antiquities in Egypt. That's quite a title, doctor Haas,
Welcome to Nightside. How are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Thank you very much. I'm fine. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So you were coming to Boston. You you've been to
Boston before, but you are coming back. You're on a
tour of about thirty may cities in the United States
and three cities in Canada. You'll be in Boston on
July ninth. We'll talk about that later, but this is
a tour in which you basically bring archaeology to life.
(11:15):
You are considered the world's most famous archaeologist. I know
this is a foundational question, but have you spent your
entire life exploring and discovering archeological sites.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
It's fifty fifty eight years now working inside the pyramids
and the Kings, making major important discoveries that I'm here
now to reveal it to the public for the first time.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I'd love to ask you a question to which I'm
sure there is not a simple answer, but it's one
that has always intrigued me. I have never been to Egypt,
but I'm fascinated by the ancient history from my day
is as a high school student. Can you explain to
me in layman's terms, how these pyramids were ever built,
(12:09):
both from a construction point of view, how they could
have been built at that time without the machinery that
we have today with such precision.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
You know, you have to understand one important thing that
the pyramid was the national project of the whole nation.
The three millions who lived in Egypt participated in building
the pyramid to make the king as a guid then
the households an upper and lower Egypt sinned workforce and
(12:43):
food to help be the king. We have an important discovery.
I found the tombs of the pyramid builders that tills
us important facts. Number one, the pyramids built by Egyptians
and number to the real slaves. And the most important
(13:04):
discovery that we made is the Wedding Rezorf papyri. Written
evidence for the first time tells us about building the pyramid,
how they cut the stones, how they transported the stones,
how they built the case of stones. Then what we
discovered until now that the base of the Greek pyramid
(13:25):
were cut down in the solid rock to be about
twenty eight feet of solid rock. All the stones for
building the pyramid came from the south side, one thousand
feet from the south of the base of the pyramid.
Means that many people thought that stones came from Torah,
(13:49):
twenty five miles to the east. No stones came from
Gisa plateau next door to the Great Pyramid, and the
egypt established to transport the stones, and we discovered remains
of this ramp from the quarry located to the south
west corner of the Great Pyramid of Kufu.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Give me an understanding, doctor howas and again, I know
I'm asking questions that we don't script questions here, but
all of us have in our minds. You know how
old the United States is, and we we believe that
those of us who happened to be Christian believed that
Jesus walked the earth two thousand years ago. We believe
(14:36):
the earth is five billion years old. On a timeline,
when were the pyramids built? I'm sure that there's not
a calendar per se, but what is the best guest
estimate if you will are estimate.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
We we do have the exact date or building the pyramid.
It's six hundred BC, thousand and eight, six hundred years ago.
And you have to know that the Gate Pyramid is
not the only pyramid in Egypt. We have one hundred
and twenty pyramids in Egypt. And in my lecture I
(15:15):
talk about the secrets that I revealed inside the Gate
Pyramid using very sophisticated techniques. We found voids inside the pyramid,
Big voice one, vomid above the grand gallery inside Kufu
Pyramid the size of two tracks, Big one. We found
(15:38):
a corridor by them, an entrance masuor important discoverages happened
for the first time using very sovestigated techniques. Technology reveals
lots of secrets about Kufu Pyramid. And this what I'm
talking in my lecture tool about how I revealed the
(15:59):
secret and the things.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Now, I believe it or not, our radio station has
heard literally across America. So I know this weekend you're
speaking in Pittsburgh, and then you're going to be going
to Columbus, Ohio, Chicago, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Indianapolis, and you'll be
in Boston on July ninth, and then you'll be down
(16:22):
in Baltimore after Boston. So for anyone who's anywhere, certainly
on the East Coast, it looks to me as if
you're going to be in Virginia Beach, Virginia, New York, Philadelphia, Washington,
DC before you go to Canada Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal,
and we have listeners in those cities as well. How
can people get tickets? Not only for Boston, which sold out, They.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Go to that, They go to the Lecture dot Com,
the AHI lectures dot com. And I think today my
lecture on Saturday in Pittsburgh, yes, will be number twenty.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think, Yeah, you're you're you're moving, you're getting You're
a little past halfway through. But it's been an ambitious series.
You You've spoken on the West Coast, in Texas, in Florida,
uh and as they say, you're going to hit the
Great Upper Midwood West. You're out in the Portland and
Seattle early on Phoenix, Los Angeles. So I don't know
(17:20):
how many people you're going to speak before, but you're
going to speak before thousands at these thirty you know.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
At least in every lecture, I get like one thousand
and five hundred people.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, so you're going to pay.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
We got like one hundred VIPs that I meet them
to take photos with them and answer all the questions
that they have.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, you you you sort of Yeah. People think of
you as a modern day Indiana Jones.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And you know when we when we do the investigation
inside the Great Pyramid, we are thinking to do it live.
And you know whom I wanted to be with beside me?
Who you do this? Addison Harrison Ford.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, Harrison Ford is still around, and I'm sure that
he would love that opportunity. And uh, and I hope,
I hope that comes to pass, Doctor Hawas. I just
again want to thank you again. It's ZAHI Lectures, z
A h I Lectures Plural dot com UH is your
is the website UH and you can sign up and
(18:24):
as they say, we have listeners all over.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
The United States.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Powerful radio station Aer and I hope that someone some
of the folks who might get up to see you
in the next few days will say I heard you
on night Side with Dan Ray at w b Z
in Boston.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Very much. They hoped in eypt one day I.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Would be honored. I would be honored Doctor Zahi Hawas,
Thank you, sir, I honored you. You be well. I thought,
that's an interesting man. That is an interesting man. When
we get back, we are going to talk some medicals
issues about long term use of cannabis, which can be
(19:07):
a problem. We'll talk about that at the other side
of the news, and then we'll go to the other
side of the news at the bottom. They are also
talk with the Massachusetts based author about what impact will
artificial intelligence have on writing, particularly writing of people who
are novelists. We'll get to all of that. Remind you
to pull down our our new and improved iHeart app.
(19:33):
It's a marvelous device. It's free, it's available to you.
You can put it on any of your devices, on
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And one of the things you can do is when
you get that and you put it on, make it
make WBZ obviously your preset, your first preset, so we're
(19:55):
only a fingertip away whether you're exploring the pyramids in
Egypt or your back home sitting listening to Nightside on
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You can leave us a thirty second message and tell
us what you don't what you like about the show.
Hopefully you can even tell us what you don't like
(20:16):
about the show and what you'd like to hear more of.
We're looking for you to be able to reach out
to us, not only as phone calls. We always want
to his phone calls, but we also want you to
send us emails, information, ideas, suggestions. You're as much a
part of this show as I am. I've said that
for years, and I truly do believe it. Back on
Nightside with more conversation, we will be heading after nine
(20:39):
o'clock looking for phone calls because we're going to be
talking about a stunning, stunning poll that was released early
this morning of potential jurors in Norfolk County. I think
the bottom line on this pole, when you look at it,
the prosecution never had a chance in this case. It
was overcharged. It was an overcharged prosecution from day one,
(21:01):
and I think that the Norfolk County District Attorney will
pay a pay a political penalty there. We'll get to
all of that, I promise, and later on we'll talk
about perhaps the most important decision Donald Trump will ever
make his president and what he does regarding Iran. We'll
get to all of that tonight. It's gonna be a
great show coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
It's night Side with Dan Ray. Hey, Dann BZ Boston's
news radio. If you're on night Side with Dan Ray
on WBZ, Boston's news radio, Well.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
If you been smoking some weed lately. With the mysterious
illness on the rise for long term cannabis uses, its
called cannabinoid hyper emesis syndrome CHS and can affect essentially
anyone using cannabis. My guest is doctor seusshut Jaghi, Doctor
(21:54):
guys John JUNGI. I hope I'm getting close on that pronunciation. Doctor.
How are you tonight?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
That's pretty good? Yeah, thanks for inviting.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Me, so tell us about that. I know that one
of the TV stations in Boston is doing a big
series this week. Actually, it's Channel five on the potency
of the marijuana that people are being exposed to these days.
As they they say, it's it's it's it's not your
parents marijuana in terms of impact. Does this have anything
(22:26):
to do with the new and improved marijuana that is
out there these days or is this something that has
always been around.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
No, I think you're right, I think this is something new. Basically,
cannabis products, including marijuana, have gotten more potent over the
past couple decades. Yeah, that's because of the amount of THHC,
which is the active sort of psychoactive ingredient, has gotten
more and more potent.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And can just ask you real quickly before I got
to ask this, ques, I am not a smoker, okay,
I'm not a smoker of cigarettes. Nothing, okay, But has
has the marijuana been developed scientifically to be stronger or
has it become stronger naturally? I hear it all the
time that it's more potent, But I'm wondering if that
(23:17):
has been scientifically induced or if it was just a
normal development.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
I think the potency has been increasing for commercial reasons
to make it more syllable.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, kind of what I thought just wanted to
make just wanted to make it clear. Go ahead. I'm
sorry to have interrupt you. I'm listening.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
So what you said initially is correct that this is
actually a new disease that we're seeing called CCHS. The
first description of it was back in two thousand and five,
so it's overall pretty new disease. And CHS stands for
cannabinoid hyper emesis syndrome, which means hyper emesis is vomiting,
(23:55):
recurrent vomiting as a consequence of using cannabis. So patients
who develop SHS usually have episodes of belly pain, nausea,
and vomiting that they can't stop. It just keeps coming back.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Now if they stop smoking. Is this something that once
you get it, you can't get rid of it? Or
I mean it doesn't sound like a pleasant experience if
you get my drift.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
No, it's not. And I see some of these patients
in my clinic. So you know, the difficult part of
this disease is that you know, for a lot of people,
cannabis actually gives relief from nausea at low doses, but
it's once you start using it chronically, so you know,
multiple times a day, for at least a year, then
(24:43):
you start to develop this syndrome. So some people start
to use more cannabis once they start getting sick, thinking
it's going to cure them, but that sets them up
into this kind of endless cycle.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, that's sort of like going from two packs a
day to three packs a day of un filtered on
camels because you someone think that will reduce your chances
of getting one cancer, that's right.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
And then people people can kind of self cure this
once they stop using any kind of cannabis. So it
usually can take as long as six months of cessation
from cannabis, so stopping the drug for more than half
a year before the symptoms go away.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, so now my question is this, how can you
function if you're if you're stoned, you know throughout most
of the day. It sounds to me like you've got
to And I don't want to encourage anyone to start,
but it sounds to me like you've got to be
a pretty heavy user for a period of time before
before this hits you. Right, is what I heard you say?
Am I right? Am I missing? Yeah? Bad?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
We tend not to see the condition in real casual
users of cannabis. So if you're using it, you know,
sporadically occasionally, it's unlikely to happen. Yeah, but we do
see it in people use it once a day or
once every other day for a sustained period of time.
So you don't have to be someone that's you know,
(26:09):
smoking pot like four or five times a day to
get it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I think I read that or I heard on this
Channel five report, the report of Mike Boydette is doing
it just to give him, you know, journalistic credit. I
think you said that the cannabis industry in Massachusetts is
now an eight billion dollar industry. Our state budget is
(26:33):
sixty two billion dollars. That's that's a pretty good size industry.
I mean that true. There's gotta be a lot of
people out there token it up, and any idea how
many people have displayed these symptoms on a quantitative basis.
(26:57):
You're a gastro Enterology is a tough medical center. Is
there anyone in the public health department that's trying to
keep track of this? We know how many people die
of COVID every week. We know how many COVID cases
the are every week.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Yeah, well that's a good question. Yeah, So we did
in our study, we actually looked at about fifteen million
ED visits between twenty twelve and twenty twenty one. And
across those fifteen million ED visits, we saw that by the.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Way, you're you're talking there about emergency department, not the
other ED.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Right, go ahead, no, correct, emergency department visits. So we
looked at basically over fifty emergency departments across the state
and between twenty twelve and twenty twenty one, we saw
a tenfold increase in zhs over this time period. So
it's a pretty significant change.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Wow. And if that is true, that means that a
lot more people are smoking and also probably driving on
our roadways, which is uh, which is another problem that
that we need, that we need to be concerned about. Yeah,
this this whole cannabis experiment. It might be fine for
the vast majority of people, but boy, there's a there's
(28:13):
a certain group who just can't get enough until they
are people able once they they they get this. I
don't know if you if you call it a disease
or a condition, I guess you call it a syndrome.
Are most of them? It seems to me that people
(28:34):
who are suffering from this once they're convinced that the
cause of it is the the cannabis use that that
they would just want to back away or or is
this such something that people can't back away from.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
Well, you know it. It can be very hard to
stop using cannabis once it becomes a habit. And you know,
I have a lot of sympathy for people who are
trying to stop. Sure, once once it becomes a part
of your routine, like anything, it can be hard to quit.
So we do have ways to try to help people
quit if they want to, and that can include things
(29:12):
like talk therapy or you know, setting people up with therapists,
and sometimes we use certain medications that can help you
kind of kick the habit.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah. Look, I have friends of mine who have been
strung out on hard drugs okay, you know, heroin, you know,
you know, artsy content and things like that, and they're
dear friends of mine who have beaten it. But I'll say,
anybody who can beat beat an addiction like this or
any addiction, alcohol or whatever, my hat's off to them.
I'm very sympathetic. But by doing this interview, hopefully, hopefully
(29:43):
there's maybe one person out there who's going to back
off their usage at least and avoid experiencing the symptoms
that you have so eloquently described. Doctor, I hope says
you taking the time tonight. Doctor, thank you, Jacques Junkie.
Give give me the correct pronounce case. I want to
(30:03):
make sure.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
It's it's Junie. It's not an easy name to say.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
That's okay, should Junkie? Okay?
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
They give me pronounces sometimes and the pronouncers aren't all
that great, but thank you. Thank you for what you do. Doctor.
I really mean that. And I keep in contact with
you on this and if the situation gets worse, we
can do it again. If it gets better, we can
do it again.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Thanks very much. Doctor. We'll gonna come back when we
get back on and talk with Massachusetts based novelist Lori Gold.
She's concerned about what role will artificial intelligence have in
the writing industry for authors and aspiring authors. We'll talk
with Lori Gold right after the break here on Nightside, Night.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Side with Dan Ray on WBS, Boston's news radio. It's
night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You know those questions to which there's really no answer daddy.
Why is the sky blue? What's the meaning of life?
Here's another one. Would you read a novel written completely
by artificial intelligence? That's what author Laurie Gold has been
asking audiences at her book events, and it's something that
(31:16):
writers have to think about because writers are artists and
AI does create can create books. Matter of fact, I
recently read that there was a site where you could
go when you could write a book about someone with AI,
which sounds crazy, but AI's coming, said train coming down
(31:38):
the track, and we either got to deal with it
or get out of the way with us. As Lori
Gold her latest novel, Romantic Friction, based on that concept, Laurie,
Welcome to Nightside. How are you hello, Laurie?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I can hear you?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Now?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What sort of a headset are you on?
Speaker 6 (32:01):
I am on just a normal iPhone headset? Is it okay?
I can take it out if that's well.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Headsets don't really work for us, but let's try to
try to work with it. There can be a delay,
which I think maybe we just experienced. So tell us
as an author, obviously, you have a new book called
Romantic Friction based on the concept, and make it very
clear you did not use AI in writing this book,
but your main character faces this dilemma. Explain to my audience,
(32:35):
most of whom are not authors or writers, Explain why
this is so important to writers.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
Well, I think AI in the creative space is very
different than the uses that many people in business are
using AI for. So if you use AI to help
you with math, or to better design the furniture on
your deck, or to do some coding, or to help
you design a web site, it's it's not necessary that
(33:03):
it's doing road tasks, but it's doing tasks that don't
come from a creative bent, from a creative soul. And
I think we associate all forms of art really, whether
it's writing, painting, photography, movies. You know, AI could write
a movie script, but we associate forms of art with
human intention, with trying to get across a message or
(33:24):
a theme, or experience an emotion and have others have
it resonate to others. And I think it's very hard
to think of a machine doing what we humans do
when it comes from a place of emotion.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Well, we know that AI is going to put a
lot of people's jobs on the sidelines sadly, but that's
the reality. Just like those those guys that used to
shoe horses. Before the arrival of the automobile, there were
there were a lot of blacksmiths out there, not as
many today. How can authors fight back? I mean, if
(34:00):
let us say someone assumes a pen name and secrecy
and privacy and anonymity or some non de plume, and
we can't tell if they are an actual writer or
if they have some all been able to manipulate AI.
(34:22):
We can't outlaw this practice. How do authors fight it? Well?
Speaker 6 (34:28):
I think what's interesting with what you said is what
you're saying is the basis of people being opposed to it.
And I think that's the biggest fear that we have
as creators and as authors. Will the marketplace just accept
a book written by AI. In my book Romantic Friction,
another author uses AI to write in the style of
my main character, Sophie Wilde, and it's not canceled, it's
(34:50):
embraced by the media, and she's called innovative, and she's
trending on the press. And I wonder if that is
the future, if people will just accept written books written
by AI. But if that's not the case. You know,
the marketplace can decide based on their dollars and what
books they buy and what books they don't buy. Right now,
what's going on in terms of fighting it is there
(35:10):
are many lawsuits against AI companies, both led by journalists
and was led by authors against the companies that have
used creative works to train their AI, and it's now
in the courts to decide it is copyright infringement. So
this is the first step that's going on right now,
including a very big case against Meta, which is the
(35:33):
owner of Facebook and Instagram authors alleging that Meta used
pirated books to train its AI, knowing they could have
purchased those books to train their I, and decided to
take them from an illegal, pirated database of books and
use it to train their AI. And this is what's
in the course right now.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So wait a sec. So what you're saying is that
the fact that they pirated these books, if they had
gone to a bookstore or to Amazon and purchased the
books and use the books for the same purpose to
train AI, that they would have been exempt from a lawsuit.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
I do not think they would have been exempt. It
would have been better had they actually paid for it
because the issue is allegedly they have used these books
without permission and without compensation. So it's a duel, many
faceted lawsuits. But at least if they had paid for it,
it would have combated one issue of taking the books illegally,
and there are court documents that say they knew they
(36:32):
took the books illegally.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, and then the other thing. I think the other
thing a lot of people probably don't realize that is
that copyrights actually run out, so high school teachers can
teach William Shakespeare and Shakespeare and his heirs have no no,
no cause of action for that because you copyrights expire.
Speaker 6 (36:57):
Sure, but we have a long time. My belief is
it's like one hundred years or so. So all of
the books that were many of the books, I will say.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
To the majority, I understand that, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
AI.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Is there anything else writers on masks can do.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
I think it's making it aware, you know, being able
to talk to people like you and have this discussion
out in the open and put it in front of
the people who consume our entertainment. It's part of why
I wrote Romantic Friction to you know, have this conversation
in front of the people who care about books and
care about reading the future of our entertainment. So I
think it's time to just start having these discussions with
(37:34):
one another and see where do we draw the line.
You know, it's not a question of what the technology
can do, it's a question of what we should do
with it. And these are more moral and ethical questions
that I really want to be having people spark the
conversation about and be talking about.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah. The other thing is that different levels of literature
appeal to different people. I mean, there are some people
who will sit and read you know what, I hate
to used this word, but trashy novels, and that's that's
their thing. Someone else might want to read historical novels,
(38:12):
which are a little more highbrow and very much the
marketplace will decide that. And if there is a trashy
ai novelist out there who gains a foothold, who gains
a following, that could be a real that could be
a real problem for for for potential novelists who like
(38:33):
to write, you know, books that are kind of you know,
at at a base of the reading pyramid. If I
can use that.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Metaphor, absolutely, But I also think like technology is continuously improving.
When I started writing this book in twenty twenty three
and I plugged into play what could AI do?
Speaker 3 (38:52):
It was not very good.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
Two years later I played with it, It's gotten better.
So you know the level of writing for it will
only get better and better and approach what humans can do.
I have no doubt for that, and I think you know,
at some point we just have to start deciding do
we want it labeled as such? And that's another part
of the conversation when you ask what authors could do
right now? There aren't parameters. My publishing contracts with Harpercollums
(39:15):
didn't have me sign anything. Let's say I wrote this
and AI didn't. But those are probably some of the
past we need to go down. And is there a
level of transparency that needs to happen, especially as the
technology gets better and better?
Speaker 1 (39:29):
All great questions to which there are no answers as
of this moment. We'll have to have you back when
some of the answers appear. Massachuset based author Lori Gold
her book Romantic Friction. That might be something you might
want to put in the summer reading list because it
might portend our future. Laurie appreciate your time tonight. You're
(39:51):
very thoughtful, very thoughtful.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Thank you for having me you very well.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Good Night you too,
It's nice eyes.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm going razy Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Thanks Ema. Great to hear your voice here on WBZ.
My name is Dan Ray. I am the host of Nightside,
heard every Monday through Friday night from Aid and to
a midnight I will tell you right out front, I'm
dealing with a little bit of a congested head cold.
You don't need to necessarily know that. But if I
sound a little different tonight, that's why. And I'm going
(00:27):
to get through this show with my pal Noah thought
to let me who is back in the control room.
Rob Brooks is off for the holiday. I'm juneteenth, as
is Marina. We worked with Karen Boussemi today, so we're
all set. We're ready to go. And I had a
tough night at the last hour last night. I was
(00:47):
really coughing, and I apologize for that. But I like
my job and I like what I do, and I'll
try to get through it and just work through it tonight.
That's ed tomorrow night and I can rest over the weekend.
Go to start off tonight with one of the great
friends of nights Side, the great Emily Sweeney, reporter at
the Boston Globe. She runs the Cold Case files. And
(01:11):
also she's the blater Tales columnist. Emily. I actually remember
this cold case. It goes back obviously twenty five years tomorrow.
This is really interesting. Tell us about the disappearance twenty
five years ago of a young woman named Debbie Mello.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, Dan, this is one of the cases that really
really gets to me, and I appreciate you taking the
time to talk about it and let people know that
this is still an open case.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Debbie Mello is a mother at two, and she was
thirty years old when she went missing June twentieth, two thousand,
so that was twenty five years ago tomorrow. The last
person who was said that saw her alive was a husband, Louis,
and he said that they got into a fight in
Weymouth while they were driving and she demanded to get
(02:07):
let out of the car and Route eighteen. He said
he did, and she got out. She left their pocketbook behind.
He drove a little bit more. When he turned around
and came back, he says she was gone, and that
spot a major search up in Weymouth. She lived in Taunton,
you know, her and Louis lived in Taunton, and searches
(02:27):
were also conducted there, but she hasn't been seen since.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Wow. That that is a stumper, because, first of all,
even if someone was got into an argument with a spouse,
they were married, correct, Yes, Okay, So if someone you
get into an argument with a spouse and someone is
so angry or upset they asked you to pull over
and they get out of the car but lead their pocketbook,
(02:52):
that doesn't make a lot of sense because and.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Ruby eighteen too is a tough spot to be let out.
You know, it's very busy roadway.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, and no one else, no one else. I'm sure
the police probably ran a roadblock for a few nights
and did what they had to do and ask questions
if anybody saw it. Did anyone actually see her walking
along the roadway?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
There was no no sightings of her, which which is
also strange. And you know there searches were conducted up
in Weymouth and also down in Taunton, and tomorrow there's
going to be an event, actually a memorial pac in
Taunton in her honor. Friends. It's open to the public.
(03:36):
Family are going to gather and you know, just remember her.
And you know, again it's great to spread the word
that this is still an open case. If anybody saw anything,
knows anything, they can contact Norfolk District Attorney's office or
the state police.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
So let me come back to the case at hand.
At what time of night was this argument? Was it
at dusk? Was it, you know, early in the evening.
When did mister Mellow say that his wife demanded to
get out of the car.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
It's broad daylight in the afternoon between three and four
o'clock and June twentieth was a Tuesday, so it was
a weekday.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Good weather conditions, I'm sure you've checked that out. Decent weather,
typical June weather.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah, there wasn't any you know, extreme weather or anything.
And again, it's just it's very odd.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
The last another person who saw her alive was she
went to a doctor's appointment that day and that's where
Louis kind of picked her up. And again that was
right on Route eighteen and Weymouth, the doctor's office, so
she was seen there that afternoon, and what happened to
her after that is a complete mystery.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
What was the argument over.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Money? The Globe actually interviewed Louis three days after Debbie disappeared,
and he said that she flipped out. They were arguing
about money. Apparently, you know, her family told me that,
you know, a family member said it was over like
maybe face cream or something, that she bought a dermatologist's office.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And wow, any insurance policies cashed?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know that I'm not aware of. I know Louis
ended up getting you know, divorced from Debbie while she
was you know, still missing, and you know, ended up
getting remarried.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And is he still living? Is he still living in
the area.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
As far as I know, he's still living in the
same house. I called him for comment and he told
me to f myself and hung up.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That's pleasant. Wow, well, Emily, that sounds like one that boy,
the fact that that no one, uh, this is like
disappearing into thin air. This is a real tough one.
And it's pretty recent in terms of I mean, you
(06:14):
do some cases that go back fifty years where there's
probably no hope, but maybe there's some hope here. Did
she have? Did Debbie? I know I'm asking you questions
that I probably don't have the right to ask, but
I'm just trying to put on trying to put my no.
I know that, and you'll probably be able to answer
most of it, because I'm sure there's nothing I could
ask you that you wouldn't have anticipated. Did she have
(06:36):
any close friends that that that she that the police
have talked to or talked to at the time, Because
if she did, let us say, get out of the
car and just was fed up and decided that she
was going to go off and do some other life,
I got to assume that she would have she had kids.
(06:58):
I mean, the kids couldn't have and she's twenty five.
The kids couldn't have been that old.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, No, her she had two young kids that she
absolutely adored, absolutely adored, and that that was one thing
that that's come up again and again. And her mother,
who sadly passed away, you know, before knowing you know
what happened to her daughter.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, her mother.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It was very adamant that Debbie wouldn't have left gone
anywhere without the children, her two kids. And you know,
there's a lot of tragedy has followed the family too,
since her stepfather was beaten to death and it actually
got into a fight with a guy over Debbie's disappearance,
like an argument. He ended up dying and her mother
(07:42):
passed away, and also her son, Louis Junior, passed away
not too long ago as well. So it's a really
sad story.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Louis Junior natural causes or.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I'm not sure. So I had just to respect the
family's privacy, but I get that he was hot broken,
you know, really sad case. And if anybody you know
is in the Taunton area that wants to participate in
the vigil, you know, tomorrow night, it's happening from six
to eight at Memorial Pack And you know, if anybody
(08:17):
has any information at all, maybe you remember something, maybe
you saw something on Root eighteen or something in Taunton
or anything, you know, please contact authorities. And also too,
if you don't mind me giving a shout out to
the Globe Case Cold Case Files newsletter.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Sure absolutely we're going to be.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
You know, putting Debbie's story out there on the newsletter
and you can sign up for it at Globe dot Com.
Forward Slash Cold Case Files.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Do that one a little more slowly so everybody can
take advantage of it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Go ahead, Emily, Okay, so it's Globe dot Com Forward
Flash Cold Case Files.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I never know the difference between a forward in a
backwards slash. They all look the same to me.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, yeah, but you know those URLs, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
No, no, I get it, but I've they look to
me like it's angled from northeast to southwest all the time.
So I don't know if that's the full to the backward,
but I've never seen anything that goes in any other direction,
So I just say slash anyway. Emily, thanks for the
work you do, and I'm just hoping that someone can
(09:27):
can you know, for the sake of the family, and
for the sake of her child that has left, and
for her husband, that this case can get solved. Thanks
so much, deep appreciate it very much. Okay, we love
having you on the show, trust me, and we'll see
you in a couple of weeks and we'll talk to you
in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Sounds good, Dan, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thanks, And if I don't talk to you, have a
great fourth of July. Okay, have fun, Oh you too,
Thanks Emily. When we get back, we're going to talk
with a very famous archaeologist. He's an Egyptian archaeologist, former
Minister of and Antiquities in Egypt, doctor Zahi Hawaas. This
is going to be a really interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And he's going to be speaking in Boston next month
on July ninth at the Western Seaport, So I think
you'll be very interested to hear what he has to
say back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Night Side Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I'm delighted to welcome doctor Zahi Hawas. He is an
Egyptian archeologist. He's an Egyptian pologist and former Minister of
Tourism and Antiquities in Egypt. That's quite a title, doctor Haas,
Welcome to Nightside. How are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Thank you very much. I'm fine. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So you were coming to Boston. You you've been to
Boston before, but you are coming back. You're on a
tour of about thirty may cities in the United States
and three cities in Canada. You'll be in Boston on
July ninth. We'll talk about that later, but this is
a tour in which you basically bring archaeology to life.
(11:15):
You are considered the world's most famous archaeologist. I know
this is a foundational question, but have you spent your
entire life exploring and discovering archeological sites.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
It's fifty fifty eight years now working inside the pyramids
and the Kings, making major important discoveries that I'm here
now to reveal it to the public for the first time.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I'd love to ask you a question to which I'm
sure there is not a simple answer, but it's one
that has always intrigued me. I have never been to Egypt,
but I'm fascinated by the ancient history from my day
is as a high school student. Can you explain to
me in layman's terms, how these pyramids were ever built,
(12:09):
both from a construction point of view, how they could
have been built at that time without the machinery that
we have today with such precision.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
You know, you have to understand one important thing that
the pyramid was the national project of the whole nation.
The three millions who lived in Egypt participated in building
the pyramid to make the king as a guid then
the households an upper and lower Egypt sinned workforce and
(12:43):
food to help be the king. We have an important discovery.
I found the tombs of the pyramid builders that tills
us important facts. Number one, the pyramids built by Egyptians
and number to the real slaves. And the most important
(13:04):
discovery that we made is the Wedding Rezorf papyri. Written
evidence for the first time tells us about building the pyramid,
how they cut the stones, how they transported the stones,
how they built the case of stones. Then what we
discovered until now that the base of the Greek pyramid
(13:25):
were cut down in the solid rock to be about
twenty eight feet of solid rock. All the stones for
building the pyramid came from the south side, one thousand
feet from the south of the base of the pyramid.
Means that many people thought that stones came from Torah,
(13:49):
twenty five miles to the east. No stones came from
Gisa plateau next door to the Great Pyramid, and the
egypt established to transport the stones, and we discovered remains
of this ramp from the quarry located to the south
west corner of the Great Pyramid of Kufu.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Give me an understanding, doctor howas and again, I know
I'm asking questions that we don't script questions here, but
all of us have in our minds. You know how
old the United States is, and we we believe that
those of us who happened to be Christian believed that
Jesus walked the earth two thousand years ago. We believe
(14:36):
the earth is five billion years old. On a timeline,
when were the pyramids built? I'm sure that there's not
a calendar per se, but what is the best guest
estimate if you will are estimate.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
We we do have the exact date or building the pyramid.
It's six hundred BC, thousand and eight, six hundred years ago.
And you have to know that the Gate Pyramid is
not the only pyramid in Egypt. We have one hundred
and twenty pyramids in Egypt. And in my lecture I
(15:15):
talk about the secrets that I revealed inside the Gate
Pyramid using very sophisticated techniques. We found voids inside the pyramid,
Big voice one, vomid above the grand gallery inside Kufu
Pyramid the size of two tracks, Big one. We found
(15:38):
a corridor by them, an entrance masuor important discoverages happened
for the first time using very sovestigated techniques. Technology reveals
lots of secrets about Kufu Pyramid. And this what I'm
talking in my lecture tool about how I revealed the
(15:59):
secret and the things.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Now, I believe it or not, our radio station has
heard literally across America. So I know this weekend you're
speaking in Pittsburgh, and then you're going to be going
to Columbus, Ohio, Chicago, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Indianapolis, and you'll be
in Boston on July ninth, and then you'll be down
(16:22):
in Baltimore after Boston. So for anyone who's anywhere, certainly
on the East Coast, it looks to me as if
you're going to be in Virginia Beach, Virginia, New York, Philadelphia, Washington,
DC before you go to Canada Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal,
and we have listeners in those cities as well. How
can people get tickets? Not only for Boston, which sold out, They.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Go to that, They go to the Lecture dot Com,
the AHI lectures dot com. And I think today my
lecture on Saturday in Pittsburgh, yes, will be number twenty.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think, Yeah, you're you're you're moving, you're getting You're
a little past halfway through. But it's been an ambitious series.
You You've spoken on the West Coast, in Texas, in Florida,
uh and as they say, you're going to hit the
Great Upper Midwood West. You're out in the Portland and
Seattle early on Phoenix, Los Angeles. So I don't know
(17:20):
how many people you're going to speak before, but you're
going to speak before thousands at these thirty you know.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
At least in every lecture, I get like one thousand
and five hundred people.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, so you're going to pay.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
We got like one hundred VIPs that I meet them
to take photos with them and answer all the questions
that they have.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, you you you sort of Yeah. People think of
you as a modern day Indiana Jones.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And you know when we when we do the investigation
inside the Great Pyramid, we are thinking to do it live.
And you know whom I wanted to be with beside me?
Who you do this? Addison Harrison Ford.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, Harrison Ford is still around, and I'm sure that
he would love that opportunity. And uh, and I hope,
I hope that comes to pass, Doctor Hawas. I just
again want to thank you again. It's ZAHI Lectures, z
A h I Lectures Plural dot com UH is your
is the website UH and you can sign up and
(18:24):
as they say, we have listeners all over.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
The United States.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Powerful radio station Aer and I hope that someone some
of the folks who might get up to see you
in the next few days will say I heard you
on night Side with Dan Ray at w b Z
in Boston.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Very much. They hoped in eypt one day I.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Would be honored. I would be honored Doctor Zahi Hawas,
Thank you, sir, I honored you. You be well. I thought,
that's an interesting man. That is an interesting man. When
we get back, we are going to talk some medicals
issues about long term use of cannabis, which can be
(19:07):
a problem. We'll talk about that at the other side
of the news, and then we'll go to the other
side of the news at the bottom. They are also
talk with the Massachusetts based author about what impact will
artificial intelligence have on writing, particularly writing of people who
are novelists. We'll get to all of that. Remind you
to pull down our our new and improved iHeart app.
(19:33):
It's a marvelous device. It's free, it's available to you.
You can put it on any of your devices, on
your desktops, on your laptops, on your phones, your tablets.
And one of the things you can do is when
you get that and you put it on, make it
make WBZ obviously your preset, your first preset, so we're
(19:55):
only a fingertip away whether you're exploring the pyramids in
Egypt or your back home sitting listening to Nightside on
the radio. In addition to that, there's a special button
there that you can find and just touch that button.
You can leave us a thirty second message and tell
us what you don't what you like about the show.
Hopefully you can even tell us what you don't like
(20:16):
about the show and what you'd like to hear more of.
We're looking for you to be able to reach out
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send us emails, information, ideas, suggestions. You're as much a
part of this show as I am. I've said that
for years, and I truly do believe it. Back on
Nightside with more conversation, we will be heading after nine
(20:39):
o'clock looking for phone calls because we're going to be
talking about a stunning, stunning poll that was released early
this morning of potential jurors in Norfolk County. I think
the bottom line on this pole, when you look at it,
the prosecution never had a chance in this case. It
was overcharged. It was an overcharged prosecution from day one,
(21:01):
and I think that the Norfolk County District Attorney will
pay a pay a political penalty there. We'll get to
all of that, I promise, and later on we'll talk
about perhaps the most important decision Donald Trump will ever
make his president and what he does regarding Iran. We'll
get to all of that tonight. It's gonna be a
great show coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
It's night Side with Dan Ray. Hey, Dann BZ Boston's
news radio. If you're on night Side with Dan Ray
on WBZ, Boston's news radio, Well.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
If you been smoking some weed lately. With the mysterious
illness on the rise for long term cannabis uses, its
called cannabinoid hyper emesis syndrome CHS and can affect essentially
anyone using cannabis. My guest is doctor seusshut Jaghi, Doctor
(21:54):
guys John JUNGI. I hope I'm getting close on that pronunciation. Doctor.
How are you tonight?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
That's pretty good? Yeah, thanks for inviting.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Me, so tell us about that. I know that one
of the TV stations in Boston is doing a big
series this week. Actually, it's Channel five on the potency
of the marijuana that people are being exposed to these days.
As they they say, it's it's it's it's not your
parents marijuana in terms of impact. Does this have anything
(22:26):
to do with the new and improved marijuana that is
out there these days or is this something that has
always been around.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
No, I think you're right, I think this is something new. Basically,
cannabis products, including marijuana, have gotten more potent over the
past couple decades. Yeah, that's because of the amount of THHC,
which is the active sort of psychoactive ingredient, has gotten
more and more potent.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And can just ask you real quickly before I got
to ask this, ques, I am not a smoker, okay,
I'm not a smoker of cigarettes. Nothing, okay, But has
has the marijuana been developed scientifically to be stronger or
has it become stronger naturally? I hear it all the
time that it's more potent, But I'm wondering if that
(23:17):
has been scientifically induced or if it was just a
normal development.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
I think the potency has been increasing for commercial reasons
to make it more syllable.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, kind of what I thought just wanted to
make just wanted to make it clear. Go ahead. I'm
sorry to have interrupt you. I'm listening.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
So what you said initially is correct that this is
actually a new disease that we're seeing called CCHS. The
first description of it was back in two thousand and five,
so it's overall pretty new disease. And CHS stands for
cannabinoid hyper emesis syndrome, which means hyper emesis is vomiting,
(23:55):
recurrent vomiting as a consequence of using cannabis. So patients
who develop SHS usually have episodes of belly pain, nausea,
and vomiting that they can't stop. It just keeps coming back.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Now if they stop smoking. Is this something that once
you get it, you can't get rid of it? Or
I mean it doesn't sound like a pleasant experience if
you get my drift.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
No, it's not. And I see some of these patients
in my clinic. So you know, the difficult part of
this disease is that you know, for a lot of people,
cannabis actually gives relief from nausea at low doses, but
it's once you start using it chronically, so you know,
multiple times a day, for at least a year, then
(24:43):
you start to develop this syndrome. So some people start
to use more cannabis once they start getting sick, thinking
it's going to cure them, but that sets them up
into this kind of endless cycle.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, that's sort of like going from two packs a
day to three packs a day of un filtered on
camels because you someone think that will reduce your chances
of getting one cancer, that's right.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
And then people people can kind of self cure this
once they stop using any kind of cannabis. So it
usually can take as long as six months of cessation
from cannabis, so stopping the drug for more than half
a year before the symptoms go away.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, so now my question is this, how can you
function if you're if you're stoned, you know throughout most
of the day. It sounds to me like you've got
to And I don't want to encourage anyone to start,
but it sounds to me like you've got to be
a pretty heavy user for a period of time before
before this hits you. Right, is what I heard you say?
Am I right? Am I missing? Yeah? Bad?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
We tend not to see the condition in real casual
users of cannabis. So if you're using it, you know,
sporadically occasionally, it's unlikely to happen. Yeah, but we do
see it in people use it once a day or
once every other day for a sustained period of time.
So you don't have to be someone that's you know,
(26:09):
smoking pot like four or five times a day to
get it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I think I read that or I heard on this
Channel five report, the report of Mike Boydette is doing
it just to give him, you know, journalistic credit. I
think you said that the cannabis industry in Massachusetts is
now an eight billion dollar industry. Our state budget is
(26:33):
sixty two billion dollars. That's that's a pretty good size industry.
I mean that true. There's gotta be a lot of
people out there token it up, and any idea how
many people have displayed these symptoms on a quantitative basis.
(26:57):
You're a gastro Enterology is a tough medical center. Is
there anyone in the public health department that's trying to
keep track of this? We know how many people die
of COVID every week. We know how many COVID cases
the are every week.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Yeah, well that's a good question. Yeah, So we did
in our study, we actually looked at about fifteen million
ED visits between twenty twelve and twenty twenty one. And
across those fifteen million ED visits, we saw that by the.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Way, you're you're talking there about emergency department, not the
other ED.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Right, go ahead, no, correct, emergency department visits. So we
looked at basically over fifty emergency departments across the state
and between twenty twelve and twenty twenty one, we saw
a tenfold increase in zhs over this time period. So
it's a pretty significant change.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Wow. And if that is true, that means that a
lot more people are smoking and also probably driving on
our roadways, which is uh, which is another problem that
that we need, that we need to be concerned about. Yeah,
this this whole cannabis experiment. It might be fine for
the vast majority of people, but boy, there's a there's
(28:13):
a certain group who just can't get enough until they
are people able once they they they get this. I
don't know if you if you call it a disease
or a condition, I guess you call it a syndrome.
Are most of them? It seems to me that people
(28:34):
who are suffering from this once they're convinced that the
cause of it is the the cannabis use that that
they would just want to back away or or is
this such something that people can't back away from.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
Well, you know it. It can be very hard to
stop using cannabis once it becomes a habit. And you know,
I have a lot of sympathy for people who are
trying to stop. Sure, once once it becomes a part
of your routine, like anything, it can be hard to quit.
So we do have ways to try to help people
quit if they want to, and that can include things
(29:12):
like talk therapy or you know, setting people up with therapists,
and sometimes we use certain medications that can help you
kind of kick the habit.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah. Look, I have friends of mine who have been
strung out on hard drugs okay, you know, heroin, you know,
you know, artsy content and things like that, and they're
dear friends of mine who have beaten it. But I'll say,
anybody who can beat beat an addiction like this or
any addiction, alcohol or whatever, my hat's off to them.
I'm very sympathetic. But by doing this interview, hopefully, hopefully
(29:43):
there's maybe one person out there who's going to back
off their usage at least and avoid experiencing the symptoms
that you have so eloquently described. Doctor, I hope says
you taking the time tonight. Doctor, thank you, Jacques Junkie.
Give give me the correct pronounce case. I want to
(30:03):
make sure.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
It's it's Junie. It's not an easy name to say.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
That's okay, should Junkie? Okay?
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
They give me pronounces sometimes and the pronouncers aren't all
that great, but thank you. Thank you for what you do. Doctor.
I really mean that. And I keep in contact with
you on this and if the situation gets worse, we
can do it again. If it gets better, we can
do it again.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Thanks very much. Doctor. We'll gonna come back when we
get back on and talk with Massachusetts based novelist Lori Gold.
She's concerned about what role will artificial intelligence have in
the writing industry for authors and aspiring authors. We'll talk
with Lori Gold right after the break here on Nightside, Night.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Side with Dan Ray on WBS, Boston's news radio. It's
night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You know those questions to which there's really no answer daddy.
Why is the sky blue? What's the meaning of life?
Here's another one. Would you read a novel written completely
by artificial intelligence? That's what author Laurie Gold has been
asking audiences at her book events, and it's something that
(31:16):
writers have to think about because writers are artists and
AI does create can create books. Matter of fact, I
recently read that there was a site where you could
go when you could write a book about someone with AI,
which sounds crazy, but AI's coming, said train coming down
(31:38):
the track, and we either got to deal with it
or get out of the way with us. As Lori
Gold her latest novel, Romantic Friction, based on that concept, Laurie,
Welcome to Nightside. How are you hello, Laurie?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I can hear you?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Now?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What sort of a headset are you on?
Speaker 6 (32:01):
I am on just a normal iPhone headset? Is it okay?
I can take it out if that's well.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Headsets don't really work for us, but let's try to
try to work with it. There can be a delay,
which I think maybe we just experienced. So tell us
as an author, obviously, you have a new book called
Romantic Friction based on the concept, and make it very
clear you did not use AI in writing this book,
but your main character faces this dilemma. Explain to my audience,
(32:35):
most of whom are not authors or writers, Explain why
this is so important to writers.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
Well, I think AI in the creative space is very
different than the uses that many people in business are
using AI for. So if you use AI to help
you with math, or to better design the furniture on
your deck, or to do some coding, or to help
you design a web site, it's it's not necessary that
(33:03):
it's doing road tasks, but it's doing tasks that don't
come from a creative bent, from a creative soul. And
I think we associate all forms of art really, whether
it's writing, painting, photography, movies. You know, AI could write
a movie script, but we associate forms of art with
human intention, with trying to get across a message or
(33:24):
a theme, or experience an emotion and have others have
it resonate to others. And I think it's very hard
to think of a machine doing what we humans do
when it comes from a place of emotion.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Well, we know that AI is going to put a
lot of people's jobs on the sidelines sadly, but that's
the reality. Just like those those guys that used to
shoe horses. Before the arrival of the automobile, there were
there were a lot of blacksmiths out there, not as
many today. How can authors fight back? I mean, if
(34:00):
let us say someone assumes a pen name and secrecy
and privacy and anonymity or some non de plume, and
we can't tell if they are an actual writer or
if they have some all been able to manipulate AI.
(34:22):
We can't outlaw this practice. How do authors fight it? Well?
Speaker 6 (34:28):
I think what's interesting with what you said is what
you're saying is the basis of people being opposed to it.
And I think that's the biggest fear that we have
as creators and as authors. Will the marketplace just accept
a book written by AI. In my book Romantic Friction,
another author uses AI to write in the style of
my main character, Sophie Wilde, and it's not canceled, it's
(34:50):
embraced by the media, and she's called innovative, and she's
trending on the press. And I wonder if that is
the future, if people will just accept written books written
by AI. But if that's not the case. You know,
the marketplace can decide based on their dollars and what
books they buy and what books they don't buy. Right now,
what's going on in terms of fighting it is there
(35:10):
are many lawsuits against AI companies, both led by journalists
and was led by authors against the companies that have
used creative works to train their AI, and it's now
in the courts to decide it is copyright infringement. So
this is the first step that's going on right now,
including a very big case against Meta, which is the
(35:33):
owner of Facebook and Instagram authors alleging that Meta used
pirated books to train its AI, knowing they could have
purchased those books to train their I, and decided to
take them from an illegal, pirated database of books and
use it to train their AI. And this is what's
in the course right now.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So wait a sec. So what you're saying is that
the fact that they pirated these books, if they had
gone to a bookstore or to Amazon and purchased the
books and use the books for the same purpose to
train AI, that they would have been exempt from a lawsuit.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
I do not think they would have been exempt. It
would have been better had they actually paid for it
because the issue is allegedly they have used these books
without permission and without compensation. So it's a duel, many
faceted lawsuits. But at least if they had paid for it,
it would have combated one issue of taking the books illegally,
and there are court documents that say they knew they
(36:32):
took the books illegally.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, and then the other thing. I think the other
thing a lot of people probably don't realize that is
that copyrights actually run out, so high school teachers can
teach William Shakespeare and Shakespeare and his heirs have no no,
no cause of action for that because you copyrights expire.
Speaker 6 (36:57):
Sure, but we have a long time. My belief is
it's like one hundred years or so. So all of
the books that were many of the books, I will say.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
To the majority, I understand that, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
AI.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Is there anything else writers on masks can do.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
I think it's making it aware, you know, being able
to talk to people like you and have this discussion
out in the open and put it in front of
the people who consume our entertainment. It's part of why
I wrote Romantic Friction to you know, have this conversation
in front of the people who care about books and
care about reading the future of our entertainment. So I
think it's time to just start having these discussions with
(37:34):
one another and see where do we draw the line.
You know, it's not a question of what the technology
can do, it's a question of what we should do
with it. And these are more moral and ethical questions
that I really want to be having people spark the
conversation about and be talking about.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah. The other thing is that different levels of literature
appeal to different people. I mean, there are some people
who will sit and read you know what, I hate
to used this word, but trashy novels, and that's that's
their thing. Someone else might want to read historical novels,
(38:12):
which are a little more highbrow and very much the
marketplace will decide that. And if there is a trashy
ai novelist out there who gains a foothold, who gains
a following, that could be a real that could be
a real problem for for for potential novelists who like
(38:33):
to write, you know, books that are kind of you know,
at at a base of the reading pyramid. If I
can use that.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Metaphor, absolutely, But I also think like technology is continuously improving.
When I started writing this book in twenty twenty three
and I plugged into play what could AI do?
Speaker 3 (38:52):
It was not very good.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
Two years later I played with it, It's gotten better.
So you know the level of writing for it will
only get better and better and approach what humans can do.
I have no doubt for that, and I think you know,
at some point we just have to start deciding do
we want it labeled as such? And that's another part
of the conversation when you ask what authors could do
right now? There aren't parameters. My publishing contracts with Harpercollums
(39:15):
didn't have me sign anything. Let's say I wrote this
and AI didn't. But those are probably some of the
past we need to go down. And is there a
level of transparency that needs to happen, especially as the
technology gets better and better?
Speaker 1 (39:29):
All great questions to which there are no answers as
of this moment. We'll have to have you back when
some of the answers appear. Massachuset based author Lori Gold
her book Romantic Friction. That might be something you might
want to put in the summer reading list because it
might portend our future. Laurie appreciate your time tonight. You're
(39:51):
very thoughtful, very thoughtful.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Thank you for having me you very well.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Good Night you too,
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