September 11, 2025 • 40 mins
Who killed Ruth Bayla Pearson? A cold case from 1975.
Guest: Emily Sweeney – Boston Globe Cold Case Files Reporter
What kids can get out of humanities education with many parents looking for a return on investment. An English professor writes a book sharing his account of how he helps skeptical first-year students discover the transformative, real-world value of a humanities education.
Guest: Carlo Rotella - Professor of English at Boston College. A regular contributor to the New York Times Magazine, he has written books about cities, boxing, music, and literature.
Here comes the bridal panhandler! How Bachelorette parties are flooding small businesses with shameless requests for free merchandise!
Guest: Jeff Jacoby – Boston Globe Columnist
Red Bull Cliff Diving Returns to the ICA in Boston's Seaport- 9/19 and 9/20 as Only US Stop and Final Stop! World’s best cliff divers to dive up to 90 feet off of Institute of Contemporary Art!
Guest: James Lichtenstein – Red Bull Pro Cliff Diver
Guest: Emily Sweeney – Boston Globe Cold Case Files Reporter
What kids can get out of humanities education with many parents looking for a return on investment. An English professor writes a book sharing his account of how he helps skeptical first-year students discover the transformative, real-world value of a humanities education.
Guest: Carlo Rotella - Professor of English at Boston College. A regular contributor to the New York Times Magazine, he has written books about cities, boxing, music, and literature.
Here comes the bridal panhandler! How Bachelorette parties are flooding small businesses with shameless requests for free merchandise!
Guest: Jeff Jacoby – Boston Globe Columnist
Red Bull Cliff Diving Returns to the ICA in Boston's Seaport- 9/19 and 9/20 as Only US Stop and Final Stop! World’s best cliff divers to dive up to 90 feet off of Institute of Contemporary Art!
Guest: James Lichtenstein – Red Bull Pro Cliff Diver
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nights Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Easy
Boston's news radio. Well, good evening, everybody, and welcome into
this Thursday night edition of Nightside. We have sort of
a different and also a special edition of night Side
lined up. Today's first and foremost the twenty fourth anniversary
(00:21):
of the horror of nine to eleven, twenty twenty one.
This follows what happened yesterday with the assassination, the murder
of a conservative political activist, an influencer in this day
and age, I guess, is what you could call Charlie Kirk,
amongst other things. So we're going to deal with two
(00:42):
stories tonight. In the first hour, of course, we will
deal with our four guests who have been scheduled to
be on during the first hour. There are no phone
calls in the first hour. In the second hour, I'm
going to introduce you to a friend of mine who
is a longtime listener of Nightside and also was a
member of what he's currently member was called the Trauma
(01:02):
Critical Care Team International in the United States of America,
and this is a group that comes out of what
was the International Medical Surgical Response Team. Many of the
members of this team from Massachusetts are associated with mass
General Hospital, which is where Ron go that first got
(01:23):
involved in this, and we're going to he and a
group from Massachusetts were on the ground at ground zero
at the World Trade Center less than twenty four hours
after the planes hit the buildings, and Ron's going to
tell us his story at nine o'clock. We will then
talk about nine to eleven and what we need to
(01:46):
do to make sure that it is not forgotten in history.
A congratulations the governors that he has indicated she wants
schools to, as we talked about the other night, to
incorporate a unit, a history unit on nine to eleven
in every class for every student who graduates high school.
(02:07):
Will explain all of that. We will get to all
of that, I promise, and of course we'll also follow
the latest developments on the assassination of the murder of
Charlie Kirks. We have a busy night, and we will
start off this busy Thursday night with someone who has
been a regular contribute here. Tonight'sie, and we really do
(02:28):
appreciate whenever Emily Sweeney comes by. She's the Boston Globe
Cold Case Files reporter, and Emily, tonight you're going to
tell us about a woman who disappeared in nineteen seventy
five under extraordinarily mysterious circumstances. It took a while for
her body to be found, and we still don't know
(02:52):
really what happened to her. Her name is Ruth Bayla Pearson.
Welcome back, Emily. It's a tough week here in New
England for a lot of reasons, and this story is
another reason why we just can't take every day for granted,
because tomorrow's not promised to us.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, exactly, Dan, Sorry to add yet another sad story
to the mix.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
No, I think what is great about is what is
great about what you do. It's not that there's sad stories,
but there's stories that will not be forgotten in someday.
Maybe on some of these stories, because of the hard
work you do, a break will occur and a family
will get some form of closure. It's a concept that's
difficult to put your finger on, but well, let's talk
(03:39):
about this story as an example. No one knows what happened.
She decided to leave her home in Newton and go
into Boston on August twenty second, nineteen seventy five. I mean,
that's just trying to do the math here we're talking
that's close to years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Two years Yeah, yeah, fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
What am I saying is fifty years ago? Last month?
Tell us tell us the story.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, So Ruth lived in Newton and she was a
divorced mom of three grown children. Her youngest was about
to go into havevid law, and you know, she told
her daughter one day, you know, she left her home
in Newton and said, I'm going to go return some
clothes downtown, you know, figuring downtown Boston, maybe the Bath
(04:29):
Bay area. She hopped in her red tomorrow and drove
away and was never seen again by her family. When
she didn't come home the next morning, you know, which
was definitely not like her, her daughter reported a missing
and it was that morning that somebody walking the dog
in a vacant lot in the Madison Pack section of
(04:52):
Roxbury found her body and she'd been shot multiple times.
And it wasn't until ill two weeks later that they
found her red Camaro in the Orchard Poc Projects and
it had been stripped for packs, and it was you know,
left there like without wheels and rims by the old
(05:14):
day Dearborne School.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
So this sounds really really this.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Sounds to me, and you know the story of course
better than I do, but this sounds to me like
what we have come to know as a carjacking.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
You know, that's what the first thing that I thought of,
you know, because and you know her family when they
they found did I d her body? You know, her
children were like, what is she doing in you know
Madison Park Roxbury, you know what I mean? When she
was heading downtown and you know you have to remember,
you know, it's it wasn't too far of a drive,
(05:49):
you know, but you know how she got there is
totally unknown still to this day. And you know, I
appreciate you Dan taking the time, you know, to talk
about this case. You know, fifty years is past, but
there are still people around, you know, they could be
in their sixties, seventies, eighties, you know what I mean,
the nineties who maybe saw something, maybe know something and
(06:13):
can hopefully you know, connect to Boston police or solve
this mystery.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I'm sure that the police probably dusted the car for fingerprints,
because obviously she didn't drive the car. At some point
she was killed and dumped, and then the car might
have been used by someone for a week or so
and then they decided to strip it for parts. Was
there any any evidence that was gleaned from the car,
(06:42):
any forensic evidence of any sort.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
If you Yeah, so evidence was collected, But you know,
DPD has been pretty tight lipped, as they are with
a lot of these investigations because often they don't want
to tip their hand as to what they have what
they don't have. The thing that makes this case even
had is that the caw got stripped for pats and
I was sitting there for so long, so a lot
(07:06):
of people, at least from the pitches that I saw,
you know, we're in and out of that vehicle, you
know what I mean? That may have had nothing to
do with the you know, the crime of her murder, But.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
In a case like this, which is still a local
Boston case, I mean, it's so, yeah, Mom from Newton
who theoretically is heading into Phileans or Jordan Marsh, which
a lot of people frequented in those days, bought clothes
didn't fit right, or I didn't like the looks of
them bringing her back. At some point she gets intercepted,
(07:42):
pretty clear to me. But the question then becomes does
the city ever post a reward to maybe loosen someone's
set of lips. Someone has to know here, I would think,
in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Right right, I mean you have to remember, like you know,
her body was found in a vacant lot, her car
is found, you know, in the projects, which you know
is obviously teaming with people, you know, so you know,
somebody out there did. Probably several people saw something that day,
you know, and that's what I'm hoping, you know, that
somebody will come forward, you know and contact you know,
(08:22):
there's a phone number for the Unsolved Homicide Unit at BPD.
It could I give up the number if that's so close?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah. So it's six one seven three four three
four four seven.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Oh say that number one more time a little slowly,
and I want Rob to write it down and if
anybody is interested and they missed it, it's six one
seven go ahead, yep.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Six one seven, three four three yep four four seven
h perfect.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay. Rob has written that, so if anyone has it
would be nice. I noticed that the FBI has posted
one hundred thousand dollar reward for information leading to the
arrest of the whoever it was that shot and killed
Charlie Kirk. Yesterday. Now, I would think that that an
(09:15):
award reward of some magnitude. You never know, maybe there's
someone who knows. And in some cases, when you think
it's fifty years old, it is conceivable that the person
who committed this crime might be dead and not you know,
a reward. I would think the city would be wanting
to put up some rewards for information leading to some
(09:37):
of these cases. I just just a crazy thought that,
you know, that a lot of money for someone, and
I mean sometimes you read these stories that the person
who gets charged with this crime has led a life
of crime. Obviously, for someone to hijack someone and shoot
them and murder them and leave them in a park,
(10:01):
they you know, that case must have been very hot
for a couple of weeks because once once the woman's
body was found the next day, the city should have
been all over that.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
It's a good question about the rewards too, because you know,
when I talk to the cold case unit and you know,
folks at BPD, I'll bring that up about the rewards
because you know, sometimes you see them sometimes you don't,
you know, with cases, And that's a really good question.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I'm glad you brought it up.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, thank you very much, and I do appreciate it.
I appreciate so much what you do. And again, how
can people I know I always ask you this every time,
but how can folks follow you at the Globe and
maybe get on the mailing list with some of these stories.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, so you can subscribe to the Cold Case Files
newsletter if you just go online to Globe dot com
slash cold Case Files and you can sign up and
you can read all the cold case stories that I write,
you know, from here on out.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So there are a lot of people in the audience
who are pretty good detective instincts. Maybe someone will read
a story and offer some advice and suggestions of the
police department. Emily, I love I love these segments because again,
you're going to start to prove some of these and
I'm going to be able to say, hey, we interviewed
Emily on that a couple of months ago, and she
(11:26):
proved that case.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
So you keep going, okay, all right, thanks so much, Dan,
I really appreciate it, your pleasure.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Thanks, Emily, love your stuff. Thank you very much. She's
really a great friend and a great reporter. When we
get back on to talk with a professor of English
at Boston Caller, author of a book called What Can
I Get out of This? Teaching and Learning in a
Classroom full of Skeptics? He's a humanities professor, an English professor,
and he has a very interesting take. This is going
to be a well received book. We'll talk with Professor
(11:53):
Carlo Rotella right after this break on Nightside Night Side
with Dan Ray.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
We're delighted to be joined by Professor Carlo Rotella. He's
professor of English at Boston College. He's written a book,
not his first book, by the way, but he's written
the book that has recent come out, What Can I
Get out of This? Teaching and Learning in a Classroom
full of Skeptics. It's also a regular contributed to the
New York Times magazine. He's written other books about cities, boxing, music,
(12:27):
and literature. So I would say he's prolific. Professor Rotella,
welcome to Nightside, How are you well?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I'm an English major, so I'm all ears here sounds
to me like a lot of students are deciding that
maybe a history or English or a lot of you
know what we would broadly categorize as the humanities are
not the way to go. And you wrote a book
(12:56):
about a class of what thirty three students and you
you it just came out, I believe it's was released
to September second.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Tell us about it, Well, it's I think it's important
that it's a required class refreshment, so they have to
take it, and then their initial responses, you know, sort
of often is can I get out of this? Right?
And it's part in my job to add a word
to that question and turn it into what can I
get out of this? And that's that's both a reasonable
(13:25):
question I think that students should ask, but it's also
an obligation as a student that you should be acting.
What's in this for me?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
What?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
What set of skills? What knowledge? What you know?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
How?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
How can I put things in my toolkit by taking
this class?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, I'm sure you answered it, but I would just
say that from English classes that I took gives you.
It prepares you for any of a number of potential
graduate degree programs to be able to read well, to
write well, and to think well. That is what I
think the basic attribute of the type of classes that
(14:02):
you teach there's a history element to it, and so
many of the classic stories that you read, it's you know,
stories that are current to this day betrayal and you know,
denial and things like that. Tell us what you tell
the students, because you're speaking to some high school students
who I'm sure are listening tonight and they probably had
(14:24):
that same thought with some questions in their mind.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well, I mean, yes, obviously you are an English major.
The last three governors in Massachusetts were all English majors,
even Mitt Romney. So you know, it's it's not like
you pick a major and it has the same name
as a career and then you do that career. That's
usually not how it works. So instead, I think when
you are studying literature, you're practicing a really basic skill,
(14:51):
and you know, it's basic recruitment for living that everybody needs,
which is the skill of extracting meaning from the world
around you and making arguments in support of meaning you find.
I mean, that's just you know, we practice on novels
and poems and movies and things like that. But that's
also the same skill you use to you know, understand
the state of the union address or to or to
(15:11):
analyze the state of your own neighborhood, right, or to
you know, when you when you get a cryptic letter
from your employer saying we think of this company as
a family and there will soon be layoffs.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Right.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Some of the meanings, some.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Of the meaning sentence, and some meaning moves under the surface.
And so we're talking about basic skills, and we're also
talking about really important meta skills, which is in my class.
It's a it's a discussion class, and I require everybody
to participate, to speak up at every class meeting.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
And you know, you're.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Practicing the meta skill of being a citizen of a community.
You know, you're you're pulling your weight, you're doing your part.
You're working on your own individual chops and your own
individual grade, but you're also contributing to a group that's
trying to get something done, solve a problem. I mean,
if you if you've been in a band, and if
you've been on a sports team, it's kind of a
similar dynamic. You're working on your own individual game, but
(16:05):
you are also attempting to be a good citizen and
help us do this thing. You know, those are skills
you need for the workplace and other places.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Absolutely for me, lost a little military time, and after
undergraduate went to law school English obviously as an English major,
that's a normal track. And then I ended up not
only practicing as a lawyer for a long time, but
ended up as a journalist on television, writing under pressure,
getting to deadlines, telling a story, finding metaphors and similes
(16:40):
and things like that in the way you report stories.
And now I do a talk show, which of course
is nothing but speaking. It's almost similar to me being
a teacher. So yeah, there's a lot of avenues that
English majors can find themselves. If you go to go
and become an electrical engineer, I kind of have. That's
a great field, but you sort of limited in terms
(17:01):
of where you're going to be able to go. Now,
there may be one hundred companies that you'll be able
to apply to, but boy, is an English major. I
think that opens a lot of avenues to you. Are
you do you students finally get it at the end,
or do you still have these skeptics who are huddled
in the back of the class snickering and looking at
their cell phone.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Well, so it's a no device classroom, so there's no
looking at your cell phone or anything else, and there's
no huddling in the back. I meant part of requiring
people to antie up is exactly to say that if
you know, if you're going to be here, then you
need to be all the way here. And I think,
you know, first of all, I think some of that
skepticism is good, and some of it is also reasonable.
(17:41):
You know, a lot of students, even very good students,
even students who got a's in English and high school,
come to college and this really came out, and you know,
I interviewed students for a couple of years for this book.
They are they kind of see what happens in a
English class is either magic or just we're making it
up right. And so part of my task is to
(18:02):
say this is a craft. You know this it's not
an art. It's definitely not a science, but it's a craft.
It's like building a cabinet or planting a vegetable garden.
You can do it better or worse, and there's ways
to do it. And I think that's really the way
to address skepticism, this is to say there's a procedure
for doing this kind of work. It's you know, it's
about pattern recognition and building arguments with evidence, and as
you say, that's really that's a really broadly applicable skill set,
(18:26):
right And at the same time we're doing something that
you can really do in an English class, which is
we're also looking at sort of questions of how to live.
This particular class, the theme of the books was the misfit,
So it's a series of misfits and in each case
we sort of looked at how this person was misfitted
to the society around them. And again, you know, these
are eighteen year olds. This is on their minds. They're
(18:46):
trying to figure out who they are and where they're
going to fit in the world, and even if they
stay on campus, you know. So that's that combination of
sort of developing the skill set and dealing with problems
and how to live. I think that's the sweet spot
of the humanity. So those two things come together well.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
In final comment for me, and I'll just get a
quick comment from you on this, Boston College is a
fabulous school. Fabulous college and very competitive to get into
that institution. John Mahoney has been a great friend of
mine and has participated. We do a show every November
along generally with John Mahoney or another a member of
(19:25):
the admissions office at Boston College and Bill Fitzsimmon's from Harvard.
We've done it for seventeen years. We'll do show number
eighteen in November for kids and particularly for families who
are applying to colleges for the first time. But I
would assume that most kids who apply to BC have
done pretty well in high school. It's interesting that even
(19:47):
at a college the caliber which is Boston College, that
you have that many students who still trying to find
some direction and not even understanding the value of you know,
the English language, the the language that they that they've
lived with probably their entire lives, or the language that
(20:07):
they're now adopting, but either way, the language that they're
going to deal with then for probably their entire lives.
How they can undervalue that, to me, it's stunning. The
school like Boston.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
College, I'm sympathetic to, you know, you know, you have
to get every you have to ace adolescents to get
into college these days, which was not the case when
I was applying to college, and I am sympathetic to
just the whirlwind.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Of everything you have to do.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
There's not actually that much time for reflection. And you know,
one of the things I say to freshmen, that's okay,
you're not trying to get into college anymore. So now
there's time to think, right, there's time to reflect a
little bit. And I find the students very game, you know,
they're up for whatever. But I also encounter a lot
of students who've really been inculcated in this idea that
(20:52):
you have to pick a major that has the same
name as a job, even though it really doesn't work
that way for most people. So part of it is
not so much the value of language, but the value
of you know, this major or that major. And I'm
saying more it's the value of college. It's the value
of the inquiry that you're going to be pursuing for
four years.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Sure, And obviously one of the legs of that stool
is is English and his writing and his comprehension. So
I'm looking forward to the book, Professor Carlo Rotella, Professor
of English at Boston College. The book is what can
I get out of this teaching and learning in a
classroom full of skeptics? Professor, thank you very much. I
(21:28):
really do appreciate your time tonight. I wish I on
professors like you. Lucky to have you. Thank you very much,
You're welcome. When we get back, we're going to talk
about talk with a great men of letters, and that's
Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby, and he's talking about how
that a lot of bachelorette parties are flooding small businesses
(21:52):
with according to Jeff shameless request for free mark merch merchandise.
We'll be back right after the news at the bottom
of the hour.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
You're on Night Side With on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
All right, my good friend, Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby
joins us. Hey, Jeff, how are you.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Hello, my own friend. Longtime no talk.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
No, it's been a couple of months. I want to
have you on more often. And you are a plural
prolific writer. Uh and uh this article was in the Globe.
I guess it's last week.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
It was my column last Sunday.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, okay. Uh. And it is about I want to
say bride zilla's, but I guess it's a it's a
form of bride zilla's. Bride bride Zilla's who are looking
you characterize them as I think bridal panhandlers. This is fascinating.
(22:57):
I didn't realize that this was going on this week.
What is going on?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Well, let me let me start with by give you
a quote that I that I included the column. You
remember the columnist Mismanners, Judas Martin.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, well I remember her Mismanners, Yes, of.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Course, right. Her name is Judith. You know Judith Martin.
She you know she she's an etiquette column for many,
many years. Became a huge sensation I think in the
nineteen eighties. I mean I was actually reading books of
her collective letters. That's how witty and thoughtful and insightful
they were. So Miss Manners said almost fifteen years ago,
(23:38):
the major etiquette problem in America nowadays is blatant greed,
specifically people who are scheming to get money and possessions
from other people. And here's the key part, who believe
they are entitled to do so. So with that is
a background what I wrote about.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
By the way, the opposite from of Gordon Gecko and
greed is good. So well, a.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Lot of things haven't changed, or they've only gotten worse.
But whereas Gordon Gecko and greed is good was folk
You know, that was Hollywood focusing on big business. Wall
Street greed that I wrote about in this column is brides,
specifically brides who are putting on bachelorette parties and who have,
(24:26):
apparently by the tens of thousands, started sending requests to corporations,
to companies, vendors, manufacturers, asking for free stuff that they
can give out to the guests that their bachelorette parties. So,
as I said, you know, I've been married for thirty years,
I'm not really up on, you know, the latest nuances
(24:47):
of how wedding planning is going. But I learned about
this in the Wall Street Journal. Just to give credit
where credit is due. I saw it as I read it.
I could feel this, you know, the heat rising, you know,
in my head. This kind of this stuff drives me crazy. Now, Dan,
you should know, and and our listeners should know. One
of my pet peeves for years has been bridal registries.
(25:09):
You invite a couple's gonna get married, and they they
send their guests not only an invitation to the wedding,
but they send them links to their gift registry. You
go to you on the link, and there's a thousand
things that they would like to have from you know, whatever,
the whatever, the top.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Of the and the top of the list is a
new maserati. I get it.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
And and you know, requests for money to pay for
the for the honeymoon, you know, all the way down
to the gold plated, platinum plated, uh, you know, mixed masters.
So I've always hated that whole idea of bridal registries.
I just think anything that is so clearly a case
of organized, institutionalized greed sends exactly the wrong message. The
(25:52):
message it sends is it's the gift that counts. It's
not you, so anyway, So I've always hated gift registries,
but this goes so far beyond that. Here are young
women who are getting married. They're planning a bachelor red party.
So far, so good. Not good is that they then
send out letters, often form letters, by the hundreds, to
(26:13):
companies all over the country saying, Oh, I love your
body lotion, I love your ski sweaters. I'm such a
fan of your I don't know your golf clubs, you
know your line of cookbooks? You know is something so
dear to me? Well, I'm getting married, can you please
send me twenty you know, twenty of them? For free
so that I can give them out to my girlfriends
(26:36):
at the Bachelor Red party.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Okay, so what this really is, Jeff and I could
be wrong here, but because.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Handling, that's why I call it.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Okay, so I'm going to I'm going to say that
they would saying it's a side hustle.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Okay, you know, agreed, what it's just what people use
when when when most people use the term side housele,
they're talking about somebody going out and working to earn
money on the side. There's no work involved here except
hitting send on their email program. They just want companies
to give them stuff for free and the build I
began to column by describing a company called Weber's Resupply
(27:15):
who makes It's a woman who makes some ski sweaters.
And she was talking on TikTok I think about getting
these requests for like one, you know, one girl wrote
to her and said, I'm getting married, can you please
send me, you know, fifteen free Colorado ski sweaters so
(27:37):
that I can give them to my friends at the
batchslorette party that I'm planning to have an aspen. So
the woman who runs this company, it's just you know,
like a two person operation. She says to the people
listening to her, these sweaters cost ninety five dollars each,
And she says to the bride to be, you know,
via video, lady, if you can afford to organize a
(27:59):
bachelorette trip to Aspen, you can afford to pay for
my sweaters. I'm just you know, I just marvel with
this kind of stuff. What gets taken for granted now
by whome.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I don't want to tower an entire generation, but it
does seem that there's this mindset among a lot of
young people that if you can get something without actually
having to earn it, so much the better everybody else.
You can post it online better.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Still, here's a question, Okay, I have to assume that
when the young ladies send these letters out, there's not
necessarily a tangible quid pro quo, but they must be offering,
at least suggesting to the people whom they're panhandling from
that there's some sort of a benefit. I think it's
(28:50):
it's a they considered it would be a pr benefit
public regall, that's the.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Pretext the pro You send me all these goodies, and
you know I'll publicly thank you on social media, and
you know that'll be that'll be a great free publicity
for you. So if the request is coming from somebody
who is a to use a term that you and
I would never even even understood twenty years ago, a
(29:16):
professional influencer with hundreds of thousands or millions of followers, Okay, fine,
I can understand that, you know what, reviewers at newspapers
get free tickets and free books to go see the
show or read the book and then write about it. Fine,
I can understand that. But the overwhelming majority of the
brides who are engaging in this hustle, they're not influencers.
(29:40):
They don't have any more any more social media followers
than any of their peers. So it's just a pretext.
But you know it's it's for pr but it's really
just just to see how much stuff they can get
for free.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I just did that one up for you, Jeff, because
I know it probably right.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think part of it is abe that as this
activity swirls around the bride, they they probably think, well,
this is kind of how it must feel for Taylor Swift.
They know it might be a little less glamorous than
(30:18):
Dayala Swift. But I think that they get caught up
in it. And yeah, that's that's what it comes down to, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
I know it comes down to how their parents raised
them and if they if their parents raise them to
think that no amount of shamelessness is too much, that
I would say, I hope they do a better job
with their own kids.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, no, I hear you. Jeff is always out. You
always are a contrarian, and you think outside the box,
and you write so well, and I'm always so grateful
that you'll come on the show and I want to
get you on some night on one of these type subjects.
By the way, you do not only your your work
for the Globe in the print edition, but you also
(31:02):
online have a column that's I believe every is it Tuesday? Arguable?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Well I write, Yeah, I write two columns a week
for the Globe, which isn't the print edition, which I
know a lot of our listeners actually read, although these
days even most Globe readers read, you know, their paper online.
But yeah, in addition to the two columns a week,
I write a weekly newsletter called Arguable and that goes
out just that goes up by email, and you know,
(31:29):
anybody can there's no cost. For anybody who wants to
get it, they can go to Globe dot com slash
arguable and just sign up, or just or just google
Jeff to Kobe Arguable. It'll probably come up.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Well, that's what I always want to do, this for
the for you spending your valuable time with me. I
always want to make sure that there's something that we
can give back. It's not quite a quick proquall.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
But you know, Dan, we always say that I ought
to come into the studio and just sit have a
whole hour together so that we're not just trying to
sneak dis in between commercials. Really, really a good sit down,
long form conversation about a big subject.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Jeff, I am. I'm totally with you, and I will
find one within the next couple of weeks, although I
must tell you I haven't been in studio since March
of twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Fine, I'm coming to your house and we can have
a bourbon while we talked.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
That could be dangerous, all right, Jeff, Jeff Jacoby of
the Boston Globe, balls in my court. I'll get back
and touch you through very soon. Thank you, buddy.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Great to talk to you, Dan.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Take care back at you there, great Jeff Jacoby of
the Boston Globe, my favorite Globe opinion writer. Let us
now take a very quick break and we go back.
We're going to introduce you to a red Bull cliff diver.
I gotta tell you, hats off to this guy, and
he's going to be in Boston. Has actually will be
a big competition, a cliff diving competition. Will tell you
(32:51):
about it all where it is going to be. I
think you're going to find it to be very easiest
down at the Seaport District. We'll be back on Nightside
right after this.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, there's a lot of sports that I participated in
high school, college, and post career. Cliff diving is not
one of them. So I am delighted to introduce to
one of the best cliff divers in the world, James Lichtenstein.
He will be here with the Red Bull cliff Diving American.
(33:26):
He's a red Bull cliff Diving American diver. James, Welcome
to Nightside. How are you, my friend?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
I'm all good?
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Are you? Thanks for having to do.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I'm doing just fine. Thank you very much for being
available tonight. This is an ongoing competition. How many cities
do you folks compete in every year? Where's your schedule
take you across the country?
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Yeah? Oh, I we're going all over the world. This
year is a little bit of a smaller series. We're
going to four places around the world. We were in
Philippines and then pulling out Oma, Italy, and then last
weekend was Bosnia and Herzegovina and we're getting ready for
the series finale here in Boston.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
So in Boston. Have you been to Boston before? Now?
Speaker 5 (34:15):
Yeah, I've been there a few times, and I competed
in the Red Bull competition there a couple times as well.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Okay, well, you'll be diving off the top of the
Institute of Contemporary Art, Boston. That's in the seaport. Everybody
knows where that is, so this is very accessible. It's Friday,
September nineteenth and Saturday, September twentieth. A foundational question, James,
(34:43):
how'd you get into cliff diving. I mean, I'm sure
that you probably what dove in high school and college
and now are doing it professionally.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah, pretty much. I mean I've been doing flips my
whole life. I started out in gymnastics, and then I
began with trampoline. Actually went to a few junior World championships,
and then ended up diving in high school and college
helped me get into the University of Notre Dame.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
And then once I graduated, Yeah, great school.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
So once I graduated, didn't want to stop doing flips,
so took my talent to the ninety foot platform.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Now, how many divers are in these competitions? Is it
the same group that is traveling together and competing for
prizes or is it a rotating cast of characters who
you're diving against.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Yeah, So, how the Red Bull Cliffing World Series is
set up is there are twelve men and twelve women
at each competition. The eight eight men are permanent divers,
eight women are permanent and the other four per gender
are wild cards. So all eight we're traveling with all year,
and then at each stop there are four that red
(35:59):
milk you know, cantruse from true.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Now, when you're up there, you're not diving off the building.
I assume it's a platform you're diving off of. Or
are you diving off the building.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Yeah, so we'll climb up to the top, up to
the roof, and then they'll actually build out a platform
that goes out pretty far, you know, so that we're
jumping in the deep water, you know. Yeah, so mail,
you know, as exactly as dangerous as it is, they
try to make it as safe as possible for us.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, and for women. They're diving at seventy feet. You're
diving ninety feet, which is the distance from home plate
to first play base. So it's a if you visualize
Fenway Park, and I guess you can reach upwards a
fifty three miles an hour in three seconds. So you
hit that water, it's pretty pretty impactful.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Yeah, they say it's like getting hit by a car,
but you when you're hitting the water, I'm flexing every
single most of my body, trying not to let the
water or rip me apart, because that's where most of
the injuries can happen. But you know, we train hard
enough to where we're super strong when we hit the water, and.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Which you're also doing. And I'm not an expert in
cliff diving or diving, but just from watching the Olympics,
it's very athletic. The amount of athleticism that involved is
involved in this is extraordinary. You're trying to enter that water.
You're not looking to make a big splash. You're trying
to go into that water as neatly and as quietly
as you can. Correct.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
Yeah, exactly. The lower this I mean, it's we're looking
at execution and degree difficulty. But then the last thing
the judge to see is our entry into the water,
and that's where you get the big scores is as
you're making no splash.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Now, how long have you done this? If I could
ask how many years? How many years have you been
on tour?
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Yeah, so it's my fourth year actually competing for Red
Bull cliff Diving. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
And then what's the athletes who I talk to? If
the Major League Baseball players are NFL players, I get
a pretty good idea based upon their position, what they're
their athletic life expectancy is how long can you be
a competitive cliff diver?
Speaker 5 (38:07):
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
I know I haven't found out yet.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
The legendary hunt is a little bit past forty. I'm
thirty at the moment. I'm hoping to go for ten
more years, but well, we got to see how the
body lasts, you know. I'll try to keep it in
shape and my goal is ten more years. But you know,
upper thirties is where the guys start to retire.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Well, it's a remarkable activity that you're involved in. You
won two gold medals this year, one at the World
Aquatics Championships in Singapore in July twenty seventh, and then
another in the World Aquatics High Diving World Cup in Sardinia,
Italy on August thirty first. So you've had a pretty
(38:51):
good summer here and I wish you all the best here.
You also got a silver medal at the Red Bull
Cliff Diving World Series stop in most Are this past weekend.
Where was most Are? Is that is that in Slovenia?
Speaker 5 (39:07):
Yeah, that's in that's in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's at
the old bridge. It's they rebuilt it after it's knocked
down in the war. But yeah, it's pretty iconic spot
and it's it's always a drug being there.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Well, i'll tell you you're building a scrap book, my man.
That is going to be pretty impressive for your grandkids.
They're going to look at it and say, Grandpa, you
did what Anyway, Hey, thanks very much. I know that
a lot of people are going to come out there.
This is an event Friday September nineteenth Saturday September twentieth.
(39:42):
Is there a website folks can go to get even
some more information that you have off the top of
your head.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
Yeah, go to red Bull Cliffavy dot com and should
be right on there if it's not. We're starting at
nine thirty in the morning on the nineteenth. We're starting
at ten fifteen a on the final day on Saturday.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, that's great. On Saturday, the water will be much
warmer since it's ten fifteenth in the morning. The Atlantic
Ocean doesn't warm up, so be prepared. James, I really
enjoyed it, go fighting. I was always great to talk
to a guy from notre today.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
Thank you so much, appreciate it. Thank you very welcome.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
All right, we get back. We are going to talk
about what happened twenty four years ago today nine to eleven,
and our guest twenty four years ago, Tonight nine to eleven.
Tonight was on his way to Ground zero at the
World Trade Center, and he spent eleven days there helping people,
(40:42):
many of whom had helped people as well. It's an
amazing story. My guest Ron Gondett will join us, a
listener of this program but also a great humanitarian. We're
coming back on night Side right after the nine o'clock
news
It's nights Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Easy
Boston's news radio. Well, good evening, everybody, and welcome into
this Thursday night edition of Nightside. We have sort of
a different and also a special edition of night Side
lined up. Today's first and foremost the twenty fourth anniversary
(00:21):
of the horror of nine to eleven, twenty twenty one.
This follows what happened yesterday with the assassination, the murder
of a conservative political activist, an influencer in this day
and age, I guess, is what you could call Charlie Kirk,
amongst other things. So we're going to deal with two
(00:42):
stories tonight. In the first hour, of course, we will
deal with our four guests who have been scheduled to
be on during the first hour. There are no phone
calls in the first hour. In the second hour, I'm
going to introduce you to a friend of mine who
is a longtime listener of Nightside and also was a
member of what he's currently member was called the Trauma
(01:02):
Critical Care Team International in the United States of America,
and this is a group that comes out of what
was the International Medical Surgical Response Team. Many of the
members of this team from Massachusetts are associated with mass
General Hospital, which is where Ron go that first got
(01:23):
involved in this, and we're going to he and a
group from Massachusetts were on the ground at ground zero
at the World Trade Center less than twenty four hours
after the planes hit the buildings, and Ron's going to
tell us his story at nine o'clock. We will then
talk about nine to eleven and what we need to
(01:46):
do to make sure that it is not forgotten in history.
A congratulations the governors that he has indicated she wants
schools to, as we talked about the other night, to
incorporate a unit, a history unit on nine to eleven
in every class for every student who graduates high school.
(02:07):
Will explain all of that. We will get to all
of that, I promise, and of course we'll also follow
the latest developments on the assassination of the murder of
Charlie Kirks. We have a busy night, and we will
start off this busy Thursday night with someone who has
been a regular contribute here. Tonight'sie, and we really do
(02:28):
appreciate whenever Emily Sweeney comes by. She's the Boston Globe
Cold Case Files reporter, and Emily, tonight you're going to
tell us about a woman who disappeared in nineteen seventy
five under extraordinarily mysterious circumstances. It took a while for
her body to be found, and we still don't know
(02:52):
really what happened to her. Her name is Ruth Bayla Pearson.
Welcome back, Emily. It's a tough week here in New
England for a lot of reasons, and this story is
another reason why we just can't take every day for granted,
because tomorrow's not promised to us.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, exactly, Dan, Sorry to add yet another sad story
to the mix.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
No, I think what is great about is what is
great about what you do. It's not that there's sad stories,
but there's stories that will not be forgotten in someday.
Maybe on some of these stories, because of the hard
work you do, a break will occur and a family
will get some form of closure. It's a concept that's
difficult to put your finger on, but well, let's talk
(03:39):
about this story as an example. No one knows what happened.
She decided to leave her home in Newton and go
into Boston on August twenty second, nineteen seventy five. I mean,
that's just trying to do the math here we're talking
that's close to years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Two years Yeah, yeah, fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
What am I saying is fifty years ago? Last month?
Tell us tell us the story.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, So Ruth lived in Newton and she was a
divorced mom of three grown children. Her youngest was about
to go into havevid law, and you know, she told
her daughter one day, you know, she left her home
in Newton and said, I'm going to go return some
clothes downtown, you know, figuring downtown Boston, maybe the Bath
(04:29):
Bay area. She hopped in her red tomorrow and drove
away and was never seen again by her family. When
she didn't come home the next morning, you know, which
was definitely not like her, her daughter reported a missing
and it was that morning that somebody walking the dog
in a vacant lot in the Madison Pack section of
(04:52):
Roxbury found her body and she'd been shot multiple times.
And it wasn't until ill two weeks later that they
found her red Camaro in the Orchard Poc Projects and
it had been stripped for packs, and it was you know,
left there like without wheels and rims by the old
(05:14):
day Dearborne School.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
So this sounds really really this.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Sounds to me, and you know the story of course
better than I do, but this sounds to me like
what we have come to know as a carjacking.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
You know, that's what the first thing that I thought of,
you know, because and you know her family when they
they found did I d her body? You know, her
children were like, what is she doing in you know
Madison Park Roxbury, you know what I mean? When she
was heading downtown and you know you have to remember,
you know, it's it wasn't too far of a drive,
(05:49):
you know, but you know how she got there is
totally unknown still to this day. And you know, I
appreciate you Dan taking the time, you know, to talk
about this case. You know, fifty years is past, but
there are still people around, you know, they could be
in their sixties, seventies, eighties, you know what I mean,
the nineties who maybe saw something, maybe know something and
(06:13):
can hopefully you know, connect to Boston police or solve
this mystery.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I'm sure that the police probably dusted the car for fingerprints,
because obviously she didn't drive the car. At some point
she was killed and dumped, and then the car might
have been used by someone for a week or so
and then they decided to strip it for parts. Was
there any any evidence that was gleaned from the car,
(06:42):
any forensic evidence of any sort.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
If you Yeah, so evidence was collected, But you know,
DPD has been pretty tight lipped, as they are with
a lot of these investigations because often they don't want
to tip their hand as to what they have what
they don't have. The thing that makes this case even
had is that the caw got stripped for pats and
I was sitting there for so long, so a lot
(07:06):
of people, at least from the pitches that I saw,
you know, we're in and out of that vehicle, you
know what I mean? That may have had nothing to
do with the you know, the crime of her murder, But.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
In a case like this, which is still a local
Boston case, I mean, it's so, yeah, Mom from Newton
who theoretically is heading into Phileans or Jordan Marsh, which
a lot of people frequented in those days, bought clothes
didn't fit right, or I didn't like the looks of
them bringing her back. At some point she gets intercepted,
(07:42):
pretty clear to me. But the question then becomes does
the city ever post a reward to maybe loosen someone's
set of lips. Someone has to know here, I would think,
in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Right right, I mean you have to remember, like you know,
her body was found in a vacant lot, her car
is found, you know, in the projects, which you know
is obviously teaming with people, you know, so you know,
somebody out there did. Probably several people saw something that day,
you know, and that's what I'm hoping, you know, that
somebody will come forward, you know and contact you know,
(08:22):
there's a phone number for the Unsolved Homicide Unit at BPD.
It could I give up the number if that's so close?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah. So it's six one seven three four three
four four seven.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Oh say that number one more time a little slowly,
and I want Rob to write it down and if
anybody is interested and they missed it, it's six one
seven go ahead, yep.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Six one seven, three four three yep four four seven
h perfect.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay. Rob has written that, so if anyone has it
would be nice. I noticed that the FBI has posted
one hundred thousand dollar reward for information leading to the
arrest of the whoever it was that shot and killed
Charlie Kirk. Yesterday. Now, I would think that that an
(09:15):
award reward of some magnitude. You never know, maybe there's
someone who knows. And in some cases, when you think
it's fifty years old, it is conceivable that the person
who committed this crime might be dead and not you know,
a reward. I would think the city would be wanting
to put up some rewards for information leading to some
(09:37):
of these cases. I just just a crazy thought that,
you know, that a lot of money for someone, and
I mean sometimes you read these stories that the person
who gets charged with this crime has led a life
of crime. Obviously, for someone to hijack someone and shoot
them and murder them and leave them in a park,
(10:01):
they you know, that case must have been very hot
for a couple of weeks because once once the woman's
body was found the next day, the city should have
been all over that.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
It's a good question about the rewards too, because you know,
when I talk to the cold case unit and you know,
folks at BPD, I'll bring that up about the rewards
because you know, sometimes you see them sometimes you don't,
you know, with cases, And that's a really good question.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I'm glad you brought it up.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, thank you very much, and I do appreciate it.
I appreciate so much what you do. And again, how
can people I know I always ask you this every time,
but how can folks follow you at the Globe and
maybe get on the mailing list with some of these stories.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, so you can subscribe to the Cold Case Files
newsletter if you just go online to Globe dot com
slash cold Case Files and you can sign up and
you can read all the cold case stories that I write,
you know, from here on out.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So there are a lot of people in the audience
who are pretty good detective instincts. Maybe someone will read
a story and offer some advice and suggestions of the
police department. Emily, I love I love these segments because again,
you're going to start to prove some of these and
I'm going to be able to say, hey, we interviewed
Emily on that a couple of months ago, and she
(11:26):
proved that case.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
So you keep going, okay, all right, thanks so much, Dan,
I really appreciate it, your pleasure.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Thanks, Emily, love your stuff. Thank you very much. She's
really a great friend and a great reporter. When we
get back on to talk with a professor of English
at Boston Caller, author of a book called What Can
I Get out of This? Teaching and Learning in a
Classroom full of Skeptics? He's a humanities professor, an English professor,
and he has a very interesting take. This is going
to be a well received book. We'll talk with Professor
(11:53):
Carlo Rotella right after this break on Nightside Night Side
with Dan Ray.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
We're delighted to be joined by Professor Carlo Rotella. He's
professor of English at Boston College. He's written a book,
not his first book, by the way, but he's written
the book that has recent come out, What Can I
Get out of This? Teaching and Learning in a Classroom
full of Skeptics. It's also a regular contributed to the
New York Times magazine. He's written other books about cities, boxing, music,
(12:27):
and literature. So I would say he's prolific. Professor Rotella,
welcome to Nightside, How are you well?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I'm an English major, so I'm all ears here sounds
to me like a lot of students are deciding that
maybe a history or English or a lot of you
know what we would broadly categorize as the humanities are
not the way to go. And you wrote a book
(12:56):
about a class of what thirty three students and you
you it just came out, I believe it's was released
to September second.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Tell us about it, Well, it's I think it's important
that it's a required class refreshment, so they have to
take it, and then their initial responses, you know, sort
of often is can I get out of this? Right?
And it's part in my job to add a word
to that question and turn it into what can I
get out of this? And that's that's both a reasonable
(13:25):
question I think that students should ask, but it's also
an obligation as a student that you should be acting.
What's in this for me?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
What?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
What set of skills? What knowledge? What you know?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
How?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
How can I put things in my toolkit by taking
this class?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, I'm sure you answered it, but I would just
say that from English classes that I took gives you.
It prepares you for any of a number of potential
graduate degree programs to be able to read well, to
write well, and to think well. That is what I
think the basic attribute of the type of classes that
(14:02):
you teach there's a history element to it, and so
many of the classic stories that you read, it's you know,
stories that are current to this day betrayal and you know,
denial and things like that. Tell us what you tell
the students, because you're speaking to some high school students
who I'm sure are listening tonight and they probably had
(14:24):
that same thought with some questions in their mind.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well, I mean, yes, obviously you are an English major.
The last three governors in Massachusetts were all English majors,
even Mitt Romney. So you know, it's it's not like
you pick a major and it has the same name
as a career and then you do that career. That's
usually not how it works. So instead, I think when
you are studying literature, you're practicing a really basic skill,
(14:51):
and you know, it's basic recruitment for living that everybody needs,
which is the skill of extracting meaning from the world
around you and making arguments in support of meaning you find.
I mean, that's just you know, we practice on novels
and poems and movies and things like that. But that's
also the same skill you use to you know, understand
the state of the union address or to or to
(15:11):
analyze the state of your own neighborhood, right, or to
you know, when you when you get a cryptic letter
from your employer saying we think of this company as
a family and there will soon be layoffs.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Right.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Some of the meanings, some.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Of the meaning sentence, and some meaning moves under the surface.
And so we're talking about basic skills, and we're also
talking about really important meta skills, which is in my class.
It's a it's a discussion class, and I require everybody
to participate, to speak up at every class meeting.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
And you know, you're.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Practicing the meta skill of being a citizen of a community.
You know, you're you're pulling your weight, you're doing your part.
You're working on your own individual chops and your own
individual grade, but you're also contributing to a group that's
trying to get something done, solve a problem. I mean,
if you if you've been in a band, and if
you've been on a sports team, it's kind of a
similar dynamic. You're working on your own individual game, but
(16:05):
you are also attempting to be a good citizen and
help us do this thing. You know, those are skills
you need for the workplace and other places.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Absolutely for me, lost a little military time, and after
undergraduate went to law school English obviously as an English major,
that's a normal track. And then I ended up not
only practicing as a lawyer for a long time, but
ended up as a journalist on television, writing under pressure,
getting to deadlines, telling a story, finding metaphors and similes
(16:40):
and things like that in the way you report stories.
And now I do a talk show, which of course
is nothing but speaking. It's almost similar to me being
a teacher. So yeah, there's a lot of avenues that
English majors can find themselves. If you go to go
and become an electrical engineer, I kind of have. That's
a great field, but you sort of limited in terms
(17:01):
of where you're going to be able to go. Now,
there may be one hundred companies that you'll be able
to apply to, but boy, is an English major. I
think that opens a lot of avenues to you. Are
you do you students finally get it at the end,
or do you still have these skeptics who are huddled
in the back of the class snickering and looking at
their cell phone.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Well, so it's a no device classroom, so there's no
looking at your cell phone or anything else, and there's
no huddling in the back. I meant part of requiring
people to antie up is exactly to say that if
you know, if you're going to be here, then you
need to be all the way here. And I think,
you know, first of all, I think some of that
skepticism is good, and some of it is also reasonable.
(17:41):
You know, a lot of students, even very good students,
even students who got a's in English and high school,
come to college and this really came out, and you know,
I interviewed students for a couple of years for this book.
They are they kind of see what happens in a
English class is either magic or just we're making it
up right. And so part of my task is to
(18:02):
say this is a craft. You know this it's not
an art. It's definitely not a science, but it's a craft.
It's like building a cabinet or planting a vegetable garden.
You can do it better or worse, and there's ways
to do it. And I think that's really the way
to address skepticism, this is to say there's a procedure
for doing this kind of work. It's you know, it's
about pattern recognition and building arguments with evidence, and as
you say, that's really that's a really broadly applicable skill set,
(18:26):
right And at the same time we're doing something that
you can really do in an English class, which is
we're also looking at sort of questions of how to live.
This particular class, the theme of the books was the misfit,
So it's a series of misfits and in each case
we sort of looked at how this person was misfitted
to the society around them. And again, you know, these
are eighteen year olds. This is on their minds. They're
(18:46):
trying to figure out who they are and where they're
going to fit in the world, and even if they
stay on campus, you know. So that's that combination of
sort of developing the skill set and dealing with problems
and how to live. I think that's the sweet spot
of the humanity. So those two things come together well.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
In final comment for me, and I'll just get a
quick comment from you on this, Boston College is a
fabulous school. Fabulous college and very competitive to get into
that institution. John Mahoney has been a great friend of
mine and has participated. We do a show every November
along generally with John Mahoney or another a member of
(19:25):
the admissions office at Boston College and Bill Fitzsimmon's from Harvard.
We've done it for seventeen years. We'll do show number
eighteen in November for kids and particularly for families who
are applying to colleges for the first time. But I
would assume that most kids who apply to BC have
done pretty well in high school. It's interesting that even
(19:47):
at a college the caliber which is Boston College, that
you have that many students who still trying to find
some direction and not even understanding the value of you know,
the English language, the the language that they that they've
lived with probably their entire lives, or the language that
(20:07):
they're now adopting, but either way, the language that they're
going to deal with then for probably their entire lives.
How they can undervalue that, to me, it's stunning. The
school like Boston.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
College, I'm sympathetic to, you know, you know, you have
to get every you have to ace adolescents to get
into college these days, which was not the case when
I was applying to college, and I am sympathetic to
just the whirlwind.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Of everything you have to do.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
There's not actually that much time for reflection. And you know,
one of the things I say to freshmen, that's okay,
you're not trying to get into college anymore. So now
there's time to think, right, there's time to reflect a
little bit. And I find the students very game, you know,
they're up for whatever. But I also encounter a lot
of students who've really been inculcated in this idea that
(20:52):
you have to pick a major that has the same
name as a job, even though it really doesn't work
that way for most people. So part of it is
not so much the value of language, but the value
of you know, this major or that major. And I'm
saying more it's the value of college. It's the value
of the inquiry that you're going to be pursuing for
four years.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Sure, And obviously one of the legs of that stool
is is English and his writing and his comprehension. So
I'm looking forward to the book, Professor Carlo Rotella, Professor
of English at Boston College. The book is what can
I get out of this teaching and learning in a
classroom full of skeptics? Professor, thank you very much. I
(21:28):
really do appreciate your time tonight. I wish I on
professors like you. Lucky to have you. Thank you very much,
You're welcome. When we get back, we're going to talk
about talk with a great men of letters, and that's
Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby, and he's talking about how
that a lot of bachelorette parties are flooding small businesses
(21:52):
with according to Jeff shameless request for free mark merch merchandise.
We'll be back right after the news at the bottom
of the hour.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
You're on Night Side With on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
All right, my good friend, Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby
joins us. Hey, Jeff, how are you.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Hello, my own friend. Longtime no talk.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
No, it's been a couple of months. I want to
have you on more often. And you are a plural
prolific writer. Uh and uh this article was in the Globe.
I guess it's last week.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
It was my column last Sunday.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, okay. Uh. And it is about I want to
say bride zilla's, but I guess it's a it's a
form of bride zilla's. Bride bride Zilla's who are looking
you characterize them as I think bridal panhandlers. This is fascinating.
(22:57):
I didn't realize that this was going on this week.
What is going on?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Well, let me let me start with by give you
a quote that I that I included the column. You
remember the columnist Mismanners, Judas Martin.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, well I remember her Mismanners, Yes, of.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Course, right. Her name is Judith. You know Judith Martin.
She you know she she's an etiquette column for many,
many years. Became a huge sensation I think in the
nineteen eighties. I mean I was actually reading books of
her collective letters. That's how witty and thoughtful and insightful
they were. So Miss Manners said almost fifteen years ago,
(23:38):
the major etiquette problem in America nowadays is blatant greed,
specifically people who are scheming to get money and possessions
from other people. And here's the key part, who believe
they are entitled to do so. So with that is
a background what I wrote about.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
By the way, the opposite from of Gordon Gecko and
greed is good. So well, a.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Lot of things haven't changed, or they've only gotten worse.
But whereas Gordon Gecko and greed is good was folk
You know, that was Hollywood focusing on big business. Wall
Street greed that I wrote about in this column is brides,
specifically brides who are putting on bachelorette parties and who have,
(24:26):
apparently by the tens of thousands, started sending requests to corporations,
to companies, vendors, manufacturers, asking for free stuff that they
can give out to the guests that their bachelorette parties. So,
as I said, you know, I've been married for thirty years,
I'm not really up on, you know, the latest nuances
(24:47):
of how wedding planning is going. But I learned about
this in the Wall Street Journal. Just to give credit
where credit is due. I saw it as I read it.
I could feel this, you know, the heat rising, you know,
in my head. This kind of this stuff drives me crazy. Now, Dan,
you should know, and and our listeners should know. One
of my pet peeves for years has been bridal registries.
(25:09):
You invite a couple's gonna get married, and they they
send their guests not only an invitation to the wedding,
but they send them links to their gift registry. You
go to you on the link, and there's a thousand
things that they would like to have from you know, whatever,
the whatever, the top.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Of the and the top of the list is a
new maserati. I get it.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
And and you know, requests for money to pay for
the for the honeymoon, you know, all the way down
to the gold plated, platinum plated, uh, you know, mixed masters.
So I've always hated that whole idea of bridal registries.
I just think anything that is so clearly a case
of organized, institutionalized greed sends exactly the wrong message. The
(25:52):
message it sends is it's the gift that counts. It's
not you, so anyway, So I've always hated gift registries,
but this goes so far beyond that. Here are young
women who are getting married. They're planning a bachelor red party.
So far, so good. Not good is that they then
send out letters, often form letters, by the hundreds, to
(26:13):
companies all over the country saying, Oh, I love your
body lotion, I love your ski sweaters. I'm such a
fan of your I don't know your golf clubs, you
know your line of cookbooks? You know is something so
dear to me? Well, I'm getting married, can you please
send me twenty you know, twenty of them? For free
so that I can give them out to my girlfriends
(26:36):
at the Bachelor Red party.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Okay, so what this really is, Jeff and I could
be wrong here, but because.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Handling, that's why I call it.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Okay, so I'm going to I'm going to say that
they would saying it's a side hustle.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Okay, you know, agreed, what it's just what people use
when when when most people use the term side housele,
they're talking about somebody going out and working to earn
money on the side. There's no work involved here except
hitting send on their email program. They just want companies
to give them stuff for free and the build I
began to column by describing a company called Weber's Resupply
(27:15):
who makes It's a woman who makes some ski sweaters.
And she was talking on TikTok I think about getting
these requests for like one, you know, one girl wrote
to her and said, I'm getting married, can you please
send me, you know, fifteen free Colorado ski sweaters so
(27:37):
that I can give them to my friends at the
batchslorette party that I'm planning to have an aspen. So
the woman who runs this company, it's just you know,
like a two person operation. She says to the people
listening to her, these sweaters cost ninety five dollars each,
And she says to the bride to be, you know,
via video, lady, if you can afford to organize a
(27:59):
bachelorette trip to Aspen, you can afford to pay for
my sweaters. I'm just you know, I just marvel with
this kind of stuff. What gets taken for granted now
by whome.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I don't want to tower an entire generation, but it
does seem that there's this mindset among a lot of
young people that if you can get something without actually
having to earn it, so much the better everybody else.
You can post it online better.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Still, here's a question, Okay, I have to assume that
when the young ladies send these letters out, there's not
necessarily a tangible quid pro quo, but they must be offering,
at least suggesting to the people whom they're panhandling from
that there's some sort of a benefit. I think it's
(28:50):
it's a they considered it would be a pr benefit
public regall, that's the.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Pretext the pro You send me all these goodies, and
you know I'll publicly thank you on social media, and
you know that'll be that'll be a great free publicity
for you. So if the request is coming from somebody
who is a to use a term that you and
I would never even even understood twenty years ago, a
(29:16):
professional influencer with hundreds of thousands or millions of followers, Okay, fine,
I can understand that, you know what, reviewers at newspapers
get free tickets and free books to go see the
show or read the book and then write about it. Fine,
I can understand that. But the overwhelming majority of the
brides who are engaging in this hustle, they're not influencers.
(29:40):
They don't have any more any more social media followers
than any of their peers. So it's just a pretext.
But you know it's it's for pr but it's really
just just to see how much stuff they can get
for free.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I just did that one up for you, Jeff, because
I know it probably right.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think part of it is abe that as this
activity swirls around the bride, they they probably think, well,
this is kind of how it must feel for Taylor Swift.
They know it might be a little less glamorous than
(30:18):
Dayala Swift. But I think that they get caught up
in it. And yeah, that's that's what it comes down to, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
I know it comes down to how their parents raised
them and if they if their parents raise them to
think that no amount of shamelessness is too much, that
I would say, I hope they do a better job
with their own kids.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, no, I hear you. Jeff is always out. You
always are a contrarian, and you think outside the box,
and you write so well, and I'm always so grateful
that you'll come on the show and I want to
get you on some night on one of these type subjects.
By the way, you do not only your your work
for the Globe in the print edition, but you also
(31:02):
online have a column that's I believe every is it Tuesday? Arguable?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Well I write, Yeah, I write two columns a week
for the Globe, which isn't the print edition, which I
know a lot of our listeners actually read, although these
days even most Globe readers read, you know, their paper online.
But yeah, in addition to the two columns a week,
I write a weekly newsletter called Arguable and that goes
out just that goes up by email, and you know,
(31:29):
anybody can there's no cost. For anybody who wants to
get it, they can go to Globe dot com slash
arguable and just sign up, or just or just google
Jeff to Kobe Arguable. It'll probably come up.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Well, that's what I always want to do, this for
the for you spending your valuable time with me. I
always want to make sure that there's something that we
can give back. It's not quite a quick proquall.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
But you know, Dan, we always say that I ought
to come into the studio and just sit have a
whole hour together so that we're not just trying to
sneak dis in between commercials. Really, really a good sit down,
long form conversation about a big subject.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Jeff, I am. I'm totally with you, and I will
find one within the next couple of weeks, although I
must tell you I haven't been in studio since March
of twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Fine, I'm coming to your house and we can have
a bourbon while we talked.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
That could be dangerous, all right, Jeff, Jeff Jacoby of
the Boston Globe, balls in my court. I'll get back
and touch you through very soon. Thank you, buddy.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Great to talk to you, Dan.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Take care back at you there, great Jeff Jacoby of
the Boston Globe, my favorite Globe opinion writer. Let us
now take a very quick break and we go back.
We're going to introduce you to a red Bull cliff diver.
I gotta tell you, hats off to this guy, and
he's going to be in Boston. Has actually will be
a big competition, a cliff diving competition. Will tell you
(32:51):
about it all where it is going to be. I
think you're going to find it to be very easiest
down at the Seaport District. We'll be back on Nightside
right after this.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, there's a lot of sports that I participated in
high school, college, and post career. Cliff diving is not
one of them. So I am delighted to introduce to
one of the best cliff divers in the world, James Lichtenstein.
He will be here with the Red Bull cliff Diving American.
(33:26):
He's a red Bull cliff Diving American diver. James, Welcome
to Nightside. How are you, my friend?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
I'm all good?
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Are you? Thanks for having to do.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I'm doing just fine. Thank you very much for being
available tonight. This is an ongoing competition. How many cities
do you folks compete in every year? Where's your schedule
take you across the country?
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Yeah? Oh, I we're going all over the world. This
year is a little bit of a smaller series. We're
going to four places around the world. We were in
Philippines and then pulling out Oma, Italy, and then last
weekend was Bosnia and Herzegovina and we're getting ready for
the series finale here in Boston.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
So in Boston. Have you been to Boston before? Now?
Speaker 5 (34:15):
Yeah, I've been there a few times, and I competed
in the Red Bull competition there a couple times as well.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Okay, well, you'll be diving off the top of the
Institute of Contemporary Art, Boston. That's in the seaport. Everybody
knows where that is, so this is very accessible. It's Friday,
September nineteenth and Saturday, September twentieth. A foundational question, James,
(34:43):
how'd you get into cliff diving. I mean, I'm sure
that you probably what dove in high school and college
and now are doing it professionally.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah, pretty much. I mean I've been doing flips my
whole life. I started out in gymnastics, and then I
began with trampoline. Actually went to a few junior World championships,
and then ended up diving in high school and college
helped me get into the University of Notre Dame.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
And then once I graduated, Yeah, great school.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
So once I graduated, didn't want to stop doing flips,
so took my talent to the ninety foot platform.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Now, how many divers are in these competitions? Is it
the same group that is traveling together and competing for
prizes or is it a rotating cast of characters who
you're diving against.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Yeah, So, how the Red Bull Cliffing World Series is
set up is there are twelve men and twelve women
at each competition. The eight eight men are permanent divers,
eight women are permanent and the other four per gender
are wild cards. So all eight we're traveling with all year,
and then at each stop there are four that red
(35:59):
milk you know, cantruse from true.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Now, when you're up there, you're not diving off the building.
I assume it's a platform you're diving off of. Or
are you diving off the building.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Yeah, so we'll climb up to the top, up to
the roof, and then they'll actually build out a platform
that goes out pretty far, you know, so that we're
jumping in the deep water, you know. Yeah, so mail,
you know, as exactly as dangerous as it is, they
try to make it as safe as possible for us.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, and for women. They're diving at seventy feet. You're
diving ninety feet, which is the distance from home plate
to first play base. So it's a if you visualize
Fenway Park, and I guess you can reach upwards a
fifty three miles an hour in three seconds. So you
hit that water, it's pretty pretty impactful.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Yeah, they say it's like getting hit by a car,
but you when you're hitting the water, I'm flexing every
single most of my body, trying not to let the
water or rip me apart, because that's where most of
the injuries can happen. But you know, we train hard
enough to where we're super strong when we hit the water, and.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Which you're also doing. And I'm not an expert in
cliff diving or diving, but just from watching the Olympics,
it's very athletic. The amount of athleticism that involved is
involved in this is extraordinary. You're trying to enter that water.
You're not looking to make a big splash. You're trying
to go into that water as neatly and as quietly
as you can. Correct.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
Yeah, exactly. The lower this I mean, it's we're looking
at execution and degree difficulty. But then the last thing
the judge to see is our entry into the water,
and that's where you get the big scores is as
you're making no splash.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Now, how long have you done this? If I could
ask how many years? How many years have you been
on tour?
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Yeah, so it's my fourth year actually competing for Red
Bull cliff Diving. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
And then what's the athletes who I talk to? If
the Major League Baseball players are NFL players, I get
a pretty good idea based upon their position, what they're
their athletic life expectancy is how long can you be
a competitive cliff diver?
Speaker 5 (38:07):
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
I know I haven't found out yet.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
The legendary hunt is a little bit past forty. I'm
thirty at the moment. I'm hoping to go for ten
more years, but well, we got to see how the
body lasts, you know. I'll try to keep it in
shape and my goal is ten more years. But you know,
upper thirties is where the guys start to retire.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Well, it's a remarkable activity that you're involved in. You
won two gold medals this year, one at the World
Aquatics Championships in Singapore in July twenty seventh, and then
another in the World Aquatics High Diving World Cup in Sardinia,
Italy on August thirty first. So you've had a pretty
(38:51):
good summer here and I wish you all the best here.
You also got a silver medal at the Red Bull
Cliff Diving World Series stop in most Are this past weekend.
Where was most Are? Is that is that in Slovenia?
Speaker 5 (39:07):
Yeah, that's in that's in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's at
the old bridge. It's they rebuilt it after it's knocked
down in the war. But yeah, it's pretty iconic spot
and it's it's always a drug being there.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Well, i'll tell you you're building a scrap book, my man.
That is going to be pretty impressive for your grandkids.
They're going to look at it and say, Grandpa, you
did what Anyway, Hey, thanks very much. I know that
a lot of people are going to come out there.
This is an event Friday September nineteenth Saturday September twentieth.
(39:42):
Is there a website folks can go to get even
some more information that you have off the top of
your head.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
Yeah, go to red Bull Cliffavy dot com and should
be right on there if it's not. We're starting at
nine thirty in the morning on the nineteenth. We're starting
at ten fifteen a on the final day on Saturday.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, that's great. On Saturday, the water will be much
warmer since it's ten fifteenth in the morning. The Atlantic
Ocean doesn't warm up, so be prepared. James, I really
enjoyed it, go fighting. I was always great to talk
to a guy from notre today.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
Thank you so much, appreciate it. Thank you very welcome.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
All right, we get back. We are going to talk
about what happened twenty four years ago today nine to eleven,
and our guest twenty four years ago, Tonight nine to eleven.
Tonight was on his way to Ground zero at the
World Trade Center, and he spent eleven days there helping people,
(40:42):
many of whom had helped people as well. It's an
amazing story. My guest Ron Gondett will join us, a
listener of this program but also a great humanitarian. We're
coming back on night Side right after the nine o'clock
news
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