September 4, 2025 • 40 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
The first Black author to write a book on the Ku Klux Klan from in-person, face-to-face interviews with leaders and members, called The Klan Whisperer.
Guest: Daryl Davis – civil rights activist, author, co-founder and Global Ambassador for the Prohuman Foundation. His new book, The Klan Whisperer, shares his courageous story, a lifetime of victories over darkness and ignorance
You Got In! Now What?: 100 Insights into Finding Your Best Life in College!
Guest: James (“Jay”) Hamilton - Vice Provost for Undergraduate Education and Hearst Professor of Communication at Stanford University
Children’s Book: Elephant Beach
Guest: Christine Devane – Author of children’s book, former elementary school teacher
Local artist creates unique fish prints using the traditional Japanese method of printing fish, Gyotaku, a practice which dates back to the mid-1800s. We’ll talk about what the art form entails and the public interest in it.
Guest: Joe Higgins – Owner of Joe's Fresh Fish Prints
The first Black author to write a book on the Ku Klux Klan from in-person, face-to-face interviews with leaders and members, called The Klan Whisperer.
Guest: Daryl Davis – civil rights activist, author, co-founder and Global Ambassador for the Prohuman Foundation. His new book, The Klan Whisperer, shares his courageous story, a lifetime of victories over darkness and ignorance
You Got In! Now What?: 100 Insights into Finding Your Best Life in College!
Guest: James (“Jay”) Hamilton - Vice Provost for Undergraduate Education and Hearst Professor of Communication at Stanford University
Children’s Book: Elephant Beach
Guest: Christine Devane – Author of children’s book, former elementary school teacher
Local artist creates unique fish prints using the traditional Japanese method of printing fish, Gyotaku, a practice which dates back to the mid-1800s. We’ll talk about what the art form entails and the public interest in it.
Guest: Joe Higgins – Owner of Joe's Fresh Fish Prints
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good evening, everybody, welcome on in. It is a Thursday night.
Yeah again, it's one of those weird weeks because we
had Labor Day on Monday, but it is Thursday night. Nonetheless,
you can check your calendar. Believe me, I am telling
you the truth. We have a great show coming up.
We have a four guests during this hour, each of
whom have an intriguing story, and none more than more
(00:28):
intriguing than my first guest. And I'd like to introduce
everyone to Darryl Davis. Darryl is a civil rights activist.
He's also a professional musician and the co founder and
global ambassador for an organization called Pro Human Foundation. His
new book is called The Clean Whisper. It's a courageous
(00:50):
story and one that probably would seem very unlikely to
most of us. Darryl Davis, welcome to night, said, how
are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, thank you Dan for having me. Really appreciate it,
glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Uh, Darryl, I know you are not now, nor have
you ever been a member of the ku Klux Klan.
How are you? Yeah, you know, for those who do
not know. I don't think there are any black members
of the Ku Klux klan Is. And you have been
to klan meeting, so you're your very you know, presence
(01:30):
at a clan meeting does not indicate your support. But
for some reason, my friend, you decided to reach out,
not just a run of the mill clan member, but
you decided to reach out to one of these dudes
who runs around in the big white uh. I don't
know what they call them, these these funny looking hats. Yeah,
(01:52):
and we're not talking about robin hood, you know what
I'm saying, basically, how the heck did you ever come
up with this? I it certainly is a fascinating tail.
I watched your Ted talk today. It was inspiring. But
I want you to tell me story. And I know
I'm I'm kind of chuckling with you on this, but
this was deadly serious business when you began. It grew
(02:17):
into not necessarily friendship, but a relationship of sorts. So
what was your motivation? How did you get started on
this very interesting journey?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Okay, well, you know, I'm sixty seven years of age currently.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You're a young man, Darryl. You are a young man,
you don't know how young you are, but you.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Are a young Keep telling keep telling me that, please.
I wake up with a new pain every day. But
I mean, I grew up as a child of parents
in the US Foreign Service, So I was an American
embassy kid, traveling around the world beginning at the age
of three back in nineteen sixty one. And I've been,
you know, between my childhood and my adulthood now as
(03:01):
a professional musician, playing all over the country and around
the world, I've been to sixty four countries on six continents.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, used to live in Massachusetts. We got a lot
of you.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I did live in Belmont, Massachusetts, and I'm going to
tell you all about Belmont. That area was the was
the first place I ever experienced racism. And that's not
to say, you know, Belmonte is a racist town at all,
but of great people. In Belmont.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You were greeted by some jerks while you were carrying
the American flag in a Boy Scott parade.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That is correct. That is correct. And the first time
I was ever called the N word was in Belmont,
actually by by a lady who's now an attorney there
in Belmont. But anyway, yeah, I was. I was only
a black kid in a cub Scott parade and I
had rocks and bottles thrown at me and I didn't six.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I just want to make sure we know this is
nineteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Eight, nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
You know, doesn't excuse what happened to you, but it
does sort of set the stage for your later in
life outreach, which is the subject of a book care
The Clan Whisper.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Right, Yeah, My brand new book is called The Clan Whisper,
and I detail all that happened, which you know, which
led me into this, you know, a career of trying
to find out how can you hate me? You don't
even know me? And that's the question that I formed
at the age of ten after that incident. So, you know,
to answer your question, how do I get involved? Well,
who better to ask that question of than someone who
(04:34):
would go so far as to join an organization with
over one hundred year history of practicing hating people who
don't look like them or who don't believe as they believe.
So I began seeking out, you know, white supremacists, starting
with the KKKA, and of course I'd end up with
some neo Nazis and other you know, racist groups as
well as just you know, racist individuals.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So the story, and I also watched the CNN report
that was done a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You you you tell an amazing story. Uh. And I
know that we're consolidating it here into a few minutes,
but I want to sort of lead lead you to it.
You get to this meeting with I forget what was
this guy? An Imperial Wizard or Grand Dragon, you know,
whatever names they call themselves. This guy was one of
(05:26):
the top guys in the ku Kluk Klan. I'm sure
there's not a hopefully there's not a lot. But he's
the He's this guy who you set up a meeting with.
He shows up with his bodyguard who has a weapon.
You're unarmed, and the meeting is taking place in a
hotel room. Are you a little concerned at that point?
(05:48):
You know, I don't want to know. I was No.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I was not concerned at all, because, I mean, I
know what I'm getting into. I've done my homework, Okay,
I know, I know their abilities. I studied them, and
I wanted to meet them, you know, face to face.
I wanted to get it right from the horse's mouth.
I mean, I could have gone down the library or
congress or anywhere, and you know, I have a vast
library myself on books from the kou Klux Klan, but
(06:10):
I read them all. But now I want to get
it right from somebody who's who's emerged in that ideology.
So I knew what I was getting into. I was
not fearful.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You told you told a funny story, or you you
had prepared some refreshment, some uh soft drink, yeah whatever,
in a ice bucket, and at some point, with the
ice melting, all of a sudden there was this odd
ball odd noise which were simply the ice melting and
the the cans, you know, tumbling into the eye, you know,
(06:41):
with the ice, and all of a sudden, everybody up
and everybody was noise.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The noise was, you know, with the cans of soda
pop cascading down the ice in the ice bucket. And
we were so engrossed in conversation we've forgotten about that.
You know. The bucket was sitting over on the dresser
and it made this, know, this weird sound in the
middle of our of our conversation. It was still out
of context, you know, that we all jumped because it
startled us, and I thought he had made some weird
(07:09):
noise and you know, something was getting ready to happen,
and he thought I had made the weird noise, and
the bodyguard had his hand on his gun, you know,
looking at both of us, like which one of you
all made the weird noise?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
That also broke a little bit right ironically.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well it did as soon as my my secretary who
was who was present, uh, you know, figured out what
it was and was explaining it to us. Then we
all began laughing. But here, here's the here's the thing though. Then,
you know, we realized in that moment that we all
were human. We all felt fear, we all felt accusatory
of the other person, all because we were all ignorant
(07:42):
of what that noise was. But then when when when
the noise was addressed, the fear subsided and we all
began laughing. These are all human, human emotions, So in
that moment, we all were human. Now, we all didn't
realize that in the moment, but in retrospect, that's what
we realized. And you know, so it was a couple
(08:02):
of years later because I would continue, you know, talking
with this person and getting to know him, and I
could tell he was changing slowly but surely, and eventually
the same guy who oversaw the Klan, the Ku Klux
Klan in thirteen States renounced it and shut down his
thirteen chapters in thirteen states. Today I own his robe
(08:26):
and hood.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, and that's what is amazing. So is it fear
to say? And I don't want to, you know, a character,
it's your story through all of this, have you the
two of you actually become friends? How would?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Absolutely? Okay, fine, okay, I just the CNN story was
I think before his renunciation of.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Right, he was still yeah, I was attending one of
his rallies.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right, I mean, and you were still you were? It
was there was a I want to say, a mutual respect,
or at least a willingness to to to speak to
one another and treat each other in a civil fashion.
But yeah, sure, you.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Know, I've been around the world. I've been exposed to
a multitude different people, and I can tell you something,
no matter how far or how close we go from
our own country, whether it's right next door to Canada
or right next door to Mexico or halfway around the globe,
no matter who we meet, everybody is a human being,
and every human being wants these five core values in
(09:38):
their lives. Everyone wants to be loved. We all want
to be respected, we want to be heard, we want
to be treated fairly and truthfully, and we want the
same things for our family as anybody else would want
for their family. If we can learn, when we find
ourselves in an adversarial situation, it doesn't have to be
about racist, to be about any controversial topics, you know,
global warming, the last president election, the current war is
(10:01):
going on, or abortion. Whatever you're on one side so
much on the other side, apply those five core values,
and I guarantee you that your navigation of that situation,
that culture, that society will be much more smooth, much
more productive, and much more positive. And these are the
five core values that I would apply with this guy. Ideologically,
we couldn't be further apart. But I would listen to him.
(10:24):
I would show him that respect, not respecting what he's saying,
but respecting his right to say it. And so it's
a huge He would reciprocate and treat me fairly and
hear me out. And so in the end he found
that what I was telling him made more sense than
what he had believed, and slowly, but surely it caused
a cognitive dissonance, you know, was shattered his false beliefs
(10:47):
in a supremacist ideology, which led to him, you know,
denouncing the ideology and renouncing his membership in it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
No, you're an extraordinary individuals going to be a great read.
It's called The Clan Whisperer. Uh, it's been out. I
assume it's out available Amazon bookstores, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That is correct Amazon.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
All right. I just want to say it's a pleasure
to meet you.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
My pleasure.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I certainly feel you've lived a very interesting life. In
this book will be fascinating. You also are with a
group called the Pro Human Foundation. Is that a Is
that an organization that you are the head of or
is that an organization.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
You're I'm a co founder. I am a co founder
of the Pro Human Foundation along with Letitia Tim an
attorney from California, and Bayan Bartney and an entrepreneur from
from New York City by you know, but now living
in Florida. You know, we know, we got tired of
hearing what people were against. I'm anti racist. I'm anti this,
(11:48):
I'm anti that. Well, let's talk about what we're pro. Sure, Okay,
you know we're pro human. Everybody's a human, even that
is human, not that we not that we accepted, but
we work towards was bringing humanity together, and we and
and and re instilling humanity in in people by finding
common traits.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Again, an incredible individual is the Pro Human Foundation? Is
that easy website for folks to find? And I assume
that your book is.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Just just go to a pro human foundation dot org.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Perfect? Okay, and the book is the Clean and Whisperer Darrel.
I wish I had more time to talk to you.
Maybe some night in the not too distant future we
could spend an entire hour together. Uh and phone calls
some of our listeners. Okay, maybe some of those absolutely
in Belmont have have matured and would uh would want
to call it.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Maybe I'll give you the ladies, maybe even call her
and have her calling as well.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, I'm an attorney too, so don't hold it against attorneys.
Well you might know her, probably not. There's a lot
of attorneys in Massachusetts there, that's what they. Yeah, we
have we have we have an over abundance, no doubt. Dale.
Thank you very much. I really enjoyed it. Pro Human
Foundation dot org. The book is the Clan Whisper Darrel.
(13:08):
We might get back to you. We'll do. We'll do
a longer segment with phone callers. Thanks again for it,
all right, happy to do it, appreciate it. We get back.
We're going to talk about getting finding your best life
in college with the Vice Provo of Undergraduate Education and
the Hurst Professor of Communication at of all places, Stanford University.
Stay with us, particularly if you're just sending or I
(13:29):
have sent someone off to college. You'll learn a lot.
In the next segment, that was an extraordinary conversation with
Darryl Davis. I thank him. We will have him back
at some point for an entire hour back on Night
Side right after this, on this Thursday.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Night, Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm Boston's News.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Radio delighted to be joined by the Vice Provo for
Undergraduate Education and the Hurst Professor of Communication at Stanford University,
Professor James. I'm told you like to go by the
name Jay. Professor James J. Hamilton, How are you a professor?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Great?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, thank you very much. I think everybody knows that
Stanford in Palo Alto is one of the great universities
in this country, and there are a lot of young
people who were off to college for the first time.
And you have a new book out you got in
now what one hundred Insights into finding your best life
in College? The first question that I always have to
(14:30):
ask someone who writes a book is and I'd love
to know what prompted you at this point in your
career to write this book. I'm sure you have been
at universities and colleges for other incoming freshman classes. Anything
about young people today that prompted the book or no?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yes, I had two sons recently go through college, and
I saw that the summer before they went they were excited,
but they didn't have a strategy. So I decided to
write the book that I wish it had when they were
approaching college.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, you know, Bill Belichick was excited on Monday Night
for his UNC debut, but he apparently didn't have a
strategy either. Only getting a little bit of a joke
here for New England, what is the advice that you
book in parts? Again, it's one hundred insights We're not
going to go through one hundred of them, but give
us the overwatching theme so people will get a sense
of why they need to have this book, particularly if
(15:24):
they're sending children or grandchildren off to college anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I think the theme is that you have more freedom
than you realize. Choosing your major is not choosing your career.
A lot of times I'll talk to people their first
week in college. They're already thinking major. But really only
about a quarter of people working jobs that's directly related
to what they majored in. And over ninety percent of
(15:51):
employers will tell you it's your ability to think critically
and communicate clearly, whether than your major, that determines your
success job.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Why is that not message? Imparted. I have two children,
they're not children anymore. They both went to what is
called the Stanford of the East, a little, little small
college across the Charles River here, and they were you know,
I always was asking them, as apparent, watch your major
(16:23):
watching major. My major was English, and I think I
took one communications course in undergraduate before as an undergraduate
before I went to law school, and I end up
with a career in the media thirty years in television
and now nearly twenty years in radio. Why do why
do universities not kind of explain that to their customers,
(16:47):
the students that they are in the process of educating.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
We try to we and it's implicit when we say
you don't need to declare your major until the end
of your sophomore year. But what happens is you mentioned parents.
Parents start asking on paying the bill, where's it leading,
and they want early confirmation that what you're studying is
(17:16):
going to result in a job. But when you look
at the statistics, really it's that critical thinking skill. Can
you spot a problem, gather information, can you weigh evidence,
challenge assumptions. That's what's going to be important to you
over time. And there's even a lot of misinformation about
(17:36):
which majors pay the most. I wouldn't use lifetime income
as a way to judge your success, but if you
use that narrow metric, the Hamilton Project shows that, sure,
the median com Computer science major is going to earn
more than the median history major or philosophy major, but
(17:56):
at the ninetieth percentile. If you're at the ninetieth percentile
of history or philosophy majors, you actually out earned the
ninetieth percentile of computer science majors, because you may go
to law school just like you did, or you may
become a manager. So you really need to think about
yourself not as average, but what really resonates with you,
(18:18):
because if you choose what really resonates with you, you'll
end up you have a higher probability of ending up
at that ninetieth percentile.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I have a lot of leaders of colleges and law
schools on my program as guests. You know, president of
Vanderbilt recently, the head of the medical school at the
University of Michigan. And one of the things, as you know,
that's going on here also particularly amongst the Ivy League schools,
(18:49):
is that the Trump administration is pressuring the Ivy League
schools to I guess have more diversity of thought in
a opinion amongst the faculty. One of the things that
I'm concerned about, and it's not a political concern, but
one of the things that I'm concerned about is a
(19:12):
sense that college is supposed to be a pe tradish
of ideas where you bring your ideas to that pea tradition,
those ideas are challenged others bring their ideas that those
ideas are challenge so that college is not supposed to
be a comfortable place. It's supposed to be a place
where you learn maybe that where you grew up there's
(19:36):
a greater variety out there of thought and opinion. And
I don't think colleges have done a great job in
that in the last twenty or so years. From your
perspective as a college administrator, How wrong am I on
that assumption?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I don't think you're wrong, And in fact, five years
ago Stanford started something. In our introductory year, we have
a class called Citizenship the twenty first Century that two
thirds of our students take, and it's all focused on
active listening and civil discourse. Civil not as polite, but
(20:11):
really trying to understand what the other person is saying,
not necessarily to persuade them, but to truly understand them,
and to test your own ideas. So we start with
John Stuart Mill and the idea that if you don't
test your ideas, you're just living a dead dogma, and
then we back it up. We actually had something on
the reading list who was appointed to the Trump administration,
(20:33):
Jay Bodicharia, as a.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Guest I've had Professor Bodicharia on the program.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
So yeah, yeah, so he had the NIH and some
people said, well, are you going to take him off
the Sylvice Now we said, of course not. We didn't
do that when somebody was appointed to the Biden administration.
Why would we do that. And actually in that class,
we have something called contract grating, so that if you
do the assignments and you do them diligently, you get
(21:01):
full credit for that. And the reason that we do
that is it really frees up students. It's taught in
a group of fifteen people that you see twenty times
over the quarter, so you get to know them really well.
It's taught in a way that you don't censure yourself
because it's just your participation showing you did the reading,
not whether you're on the left or the right. And
(21:22):
I do think that especially at Stanford, we've been we've
been trying to balance views. I also direct the journalism program,
so I brought the sixteen nineteen project out here and
Nicole Hanna Jones and Kye c. Lehman spoke to a
full crowd. Next year, I brought out Brett Stevens and
he did a wonderful job. This year we had Marty
(21:44):
Baron talk about threats to press freedom, but we did
it at the Zoober Institution, so we really are taking
it seriously.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Now. By the way, everyone you just mentioned Marty Baron,
Brett Stevens at some point in time I've been on
this program. One of the things we do with the show,
and we're doing it for eighteen years, is all points
of or welcome, all points of view hopefully are respected.
The idea is that this is a place where people
can disagree without being can disagree agreeably without being disagreeable.
(22:12):
Is very very important to me, So look, I appreciate it.
Let's talk about the book here, just for a final
second or so. How can people and particularly parents, grandparents
who maybe are looking for a gift for a student
heading off to college, or maybe they'll put one in
the mail now that the students have landed at their
appointed locations, how can they best get this? I assume
(22:35):
it's available. I assume it's on Amazon. I assume it's
available at good bookstores. Is there any other way you
want to direct people?
Speaker 4 (22:42):
No, you've covered it all, and I really do stress
that college is really exciting. But the students really have
and they realize that's the message of the book. And
I hope the students get it.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Professor Hamilton, thank you very much. Keep up the great
work at Stanford. It is one of the great universities
in this country. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Thank you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Well we get back. We going to talk about a
different type book. It's a children's book called Elephant Beach.
You're going to talk with the author, Christine Devane. Right
after the news here at the bottom of the air
went a couple of minutes long there, but we will
get everybody in. We have a couple of interesting different
guests coming up this half hour. We're also going to
talk with an expert on a traditional Japanese method of
(23:26):
printing called jiatuka. I believe I PRONOUNSA correctly. We'll find
out for sure. Coming back on Night Type.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
My next guest is a guest is an author, Christine Devane.
I got the correct pronunciation? Is a divein or Doani
help me out here? Christine? Okay, I just always like
the double check. You know a lot of people they're
kind of shy actually even adults, and they'll let a
mispronunciation go by. That's why I ask. So you're the
(24:03):
author of a children's book. You're a former elementary school teacher.
Where did you teach elementary school? So?
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I taught elementary school in Wallfam Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
So you're a Massachusetts born and bred. I guess your
mom listens to our show.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yeah, so my mom Joyce and my dad Tony Arrigo,
they are both listening and they are very big fans.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, that is great, Thank them both for me, and
give them both a hug for me. You bumped into
my producer or the night Side producer, I can't say
my producer, the producer of Nightside Marita aka Lady Lightning
at the in Boston magazine party. And so this was
a happy coincidence for you and a happy coincidence for us.
(24:48):
So you've written a book. It's a children's book. When
you say children's book, give me the age range that
this works for you.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
So it's targeted for Ford eight. Honestly, any child can
read it. My daughter's too, and she loves sitting down.
I mean she's not reading it, but she loves sitting
down and looking at the pictures and hearing the story.
So it's targeted basically for any kid between up until
the ages of eight.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Okay, and it's entitled Elephant Beach. I'm sure this is
a plot and a storyline that you can explain pretty
pretty directly, and then let's talk about the lesson that
is imparted. It's a little girl who likes to go
to the beach and one day she meets a I
don't know if you say it's a herd or a
(25:35):
pot or whatever, a group of elephants. Go ahead, tell
us the story.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
So it's about a little girl.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
She's shy.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
She goes to the beach. She wants to be by herself,
and there's a group of elephants that are almost annoying her,
but they don't mean to be annoying. They do things
like block the sun because they're so big when they walk.
The stand gets on her towel and they invite the
little girl to play, but she's a little apprehensive. She
wants to stay by herself, and then eventually she gets
(26:05):
enough courage to join the group and she has a
fun day with everyone at the well, all the elephants
at the beach. So it has a message for introverts
that it's okay to sometimes take a little while to
warm up to a group. Then it also has a
message for extroverts that sometimes it's nice to invite somebody
who's sitting by themselves to join the group.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
And what prompt to do was I'm sure that you
must have seen some of these behaviors characteristics, however you
want to describe them amongst students that you taught.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Right, Yes, And I was actually extremely shy when I
was growing up, So I was quiet reading a book
by myself. And now I have a shy son too,
So I think there's lots of shy kids out there,
but there's not a lot of books that really focus
on being shy.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Well, I can remember reading to my kids many years ago.
They're both in their thirties now, Where the Wild Things Are?
Did you, as a young person, because I'm assuming that
you're probably close to their age, do you remember that
book Where the Wild Things Are?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Yeah, I love that book.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, And so how would you compare your book Elephant Beach.
I haven't read Elephant Beach yet, but I will, and
I do have a couple of grandchildren who that book
will be read to thank you very much. Is it
similar than Where the Wild Things Are? I assume it is.
Maybe I'm not. If it isn't police disabuse me of
(27:38):
that notion.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Well, it's similar, and it's different in different aspects. They're
both about children joining a group, in one creatures and
in one elephants and having fun together. I've actually never
heard it compared to that book, but they are both stories,
(28:01):
and they are similar in that sense the.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Beach.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I also think that these type of books, and some
people might say, well, you know, that's a silly story.
Some adults who if they they perk up the imagination
of the kids because the kids are more interested in
the story, which which makes that's why kids love a
book like Elephant Beach or Where the Wild Things Are.
They're not looking at it from a literal perspective. Uh
(28:31):
As maybe some you know, adults might and say, well, well,
there are no such things as wild things, or why
would they be elephants at a beach? I mean it
is it. I assume both of those books, and and
particularly the book we're talking about, your book, Elephant Beach,
invigorates their their ideas, of their their imaginations and their
(28:51):
creativity right or wrong. I'm not a sociologist, and if
I'm wrong, you can tell me. If I'm right, I'll
take I'll take No it does.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
That's that's the whole thing. It's all based on imagination
and a fun day at the beach. And I've been
doing a lot of classroom visits and one of the
things we talk about after we finished reading the book
is what would you want to do with an elephant
at the beach? Obviously that's using their imagination, and I
think the number one answer is eat a huge ice
(29:20):
cream with an elephant. But yeah, it helps kids to
really use their imagination, use their creativity. And then it's
also a good way to get them to connect to
their own experiences because most kids have been to the beach,
so they like to share with me what they did
at the beach. And then elephants are my favorite animals,
so we have a lot of discussions about their favorite animals.
(29:42):
And I went to a classroom one day and a
girl had a shirt with elephants on because she loved
elephants and she couldn't wait to tell me about it.
So it connects to them in real life situations. And
then also it brings out their imagination.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Great. I mean that was that was the best elevator
pitch I could hear for the book. Now folks can
get the book. It's out. I assume I don't want
to make any mistakes here. I assume it's available on Amazon.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Yes, so it's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and
that I have a website, Christine, and then it's a
hyphen divein.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Okay, Now is there an advantage of them going directly
to the website. Can you inscribe the book to a
child or a grandchild.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
On the website?
Speaker 7 (30:32):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (30:33):
You get it signed?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, if somebody writes so, there's a page on the
website that says contact me, and that goes directly to me.
So if anybody wants anything signed, or people have been
sending things about classroom visits or library visits, they can
sell that all out on the website.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah. And I think it's great because when even though
the child might be five or six, four or five
or six years old, if the book becomes a special book,
when when it's autographed by the author, and so as
long as I just want to give people an opportunity again,
give us your website. Obviously, they can order it on Amazon,
they can go to the Barnes and Noble Easypsy, but
(31:17):
if they want to get it personalized, give us the
website one more time.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
So it's Christine and then there's a hyphen divein and
on the website. It also has events that I'm going to.
And then there's also I had some of the pages
made into coloring book pages so people can print those
out for free. But if anyone has any special requests,
everything on the website goes directly to me.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Okay, and it's not Christine Hyphendvane dot org or something
like that or dot com. It's just Christine hyphen Devane
and they will they will be dot com. Okay. I
got to throw that in there because just want to
make sure that we get it right. That's Christine hyphen
Devane dev ame dot com. Christine, thanks very much, and
(32:02):
please say how to your mom and dad for us.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Okay, I will thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Very welcome we get back. We're going to talk about
something very different. A local artist who freed's unique fish
prints using the traditional Japanese method of printing fish called
I think it's pronounced. We'll figure it out though. Gia taco,
a practice which dates back to the mid eighteen hundreds,
I think around the time Abe Lincoln was president. We'll
talk about this right after the break.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
It's nice side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Okay, my next guest is doing something that I know
nothing about, so I'm going to be all hears. Joe
Higgins is the owner of Joe's Fresh Fish Prints. Joe,
I have never heard of this. It is a process
called giataku. Have I pronounced it correctly? If not? Helped
me out.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
It is called geo taku.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You're close close, but okay, fine, gio gio taco. Joe,
I've never heard of this. I I guess you do
fish prints with an actual fish. Tell us the process
number one? Are you the only person who does this
around this Necklai? Would you're up up in Cape in
(33:13):
the Cape Ann.
Speaker 8 (33:14):
Area, as I understand, Yeah, So I'm in So, I'm
in Gloucester. Yeah, and I just I recently moved from
to Salem. So I went from I went from the
witches to the fishes and uh, and what I do
is I use an actual fish to make my prints.
(33:37):
I started at about fifteen years ago. And it's a
Japanese art been around for centuries, but I'm one of
the few people in the New England area that do it.
It's kind of popular in Hawaii and Florida, the type
of thing.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
How did you find out about this? Did you? Did
you take a trip somewhere and said, hey, that's pretty cool.
I think I can do that.
Speaker 7 (34:02):
No, a friend of mine, So I was. I was
a kayak fisherman, so two fishfall.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
The only place I fish at is at the grocery store.
Speaker 7 (34:13):
All right, all right, so I was running, go ahead,
we got it. So if about fifteen years ago, I
was running a fishing tournament. I was looking for something
different to do, and a friend of mine had a
geo taku on his wall, and I, you know, I
(34:34):
went to art school. I figured I could do that.
So here I am. Fifteen years later. I have got
three locations, two locations one in Rockport on Bearskin Neck
and the newest one in Gloucester. And I have a
small shop on Rocky Neck in Gloucester where I live.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Okay, So now do people come in there with their
fish and you show them how to do this this
or or basically, do people come in and simply say, hey,
show me a fish print. Show them they're gonna you know,
they hang this. These are pieces of art. This is
like a painting. Uh you know it's not painting, but
it's you basically use the the image of the fish,
(35:16):
the actual image of the fish, as the piece of artwork,
and it obviously has to be probably done very delicately
and very carefully. I assume.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
Yeah, So most of my fish come from So say Dan,
say you fished, which I know you don't. Now, So
say you went to Whole Foods and you said, oh,
that's a nice looking fish. You know, I'd love to
have a print of it. So if someone has a
fish and they want to eat the fish, but they
(35:45):
also want a record of it, instead of doing a mile,
I'll actually take the fish. I use a water based ink,
so you can eat the fish. After the prints done,
nothing goes to waste. I'll make a print of the fish,
and then they take the fish back with them and
they get a sort of a visual representation of the
(36:09):
fish they can put on the wall. I do all
the framing the whole nine yards and they can eat
the fish.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Now, most people bringing in. Then they're not bringing Hey, Joe,
I caught this three pound tuna who we have out
in the back of it. We're not talking about fish
like that. We're talking about pretty yeah side.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
We are talking about fish like that. Really, I have printed.
I've printed on the boat. A couple of my friends
are on Wicked Tuna. Okay, we've ever seen that the
TV show.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So I don't play baseball, but I watch currently, but
I watch baseball games. So even though I don't fish, yeah,
I've watched some of those fishing shows. They take their
wife in their hands when they go out. Sometimes. That's
one of the reasons I don't fish. They're braver than me.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
Joe, go ahead, Yeah, So whenever when it comes into
my shop, they said, oh, you must be an excellent fisherman.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
What's the biggest fish print that you've ever produced for someone?
Speaker 7 (37:12):
Well, I've printed a like you said, three hundred and
fifty pound fish.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I have no idea what.
Speaker 7 (37:22):
So I printed this, you know, maybe a five hundred
pound bluefin tuna right on the boat.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I do you know?
Speaker 7 (37:30):
Most people can't, you know, bring that to me. So
I end up printing the tail of the bluefin tuna,
you know, which is a lot easier to get into
my shop than the whole tuna. So instead of you know,
say guys were going out on a charter and they
caught a big tuna. Most of the tuna end up
(37:51):
in Japan. You know. They saw the they saw the.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Fish, so they cut off the tail bit, which then
becomes the print, which is the memory of the catch.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (38:02):
Yeah, so I can make it, you know, if they
have three or four guys on the charter, you know,
instead of you know, everyone gets a a print of
the fish, and they're all happy and they have something
to put on their walls.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
They can and they can brag about it. It's better
than trying to throw the tuner, the three hundred or
five hundred pound tuoner in the trunk of the car.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
See, well, let's get it.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
To Joe's place. Joe, how can folks get in touch
with you? That's the main purpose of this. I think
it's interesting. You certainly have explained it much better than
I ever would have imagined. What's the easiest way for
folks to get in touch with you?
Speaker 7 (38:38):
I have a website they can go, so I teach.
If you Dan, if you want to come up and
take a class. I will actually teach you how to
print a fish and you can go to fish Impressions
dot com or Joe's Fresh Fishprints dot com. It's hard
to say twice in a row.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Let's say the first one one more time so that
people can what is that first one?
Speaker 7 (39:02):
Fish impressions fish F I, S H E D and
then Impressions. So it's kind of a plan.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Words.
Speaker 7 (39:10):
I was an advertising never waved a good pun. Okay,
fish fish Impressions dot com perfect or Joe's Fresh Fishprints
dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
All right, great, Joe, nice to Uh. I will not
be coming up. I'm I'm in a whole different part
of the state right now. But it's interesting and it's
interesting that that these fun days out on the water,
you not only can get a sunburn and maybe catch
a fish, but you also then can get a print
of it and you can post it, put it up
(39:42):
on your wall and have it as proof of your daring.
Speaker 7 (39:47):
Jews just we just opened a new gallery in Gloucester
right on Main Street. So if you're on if you're
in Gloucester and you here in the neighborhood, come on
by two O six Main Street.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
All right, Joe Higginson, thank you very much, owner of
Joe's Fresh Fish Prints. Say that three or four times
in a row. Thanks Joe, appreciate it very much.
Speaker 7 (40:06):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
All Right, we get back. We're going to talk with
Merril candidate Josh Kraft. He has just loaned his campaign
a fairly significant amount of money, which maybe suggests that
he might be in better shape than some of those
polls from about a month ago. We're suggesting, way back then,
back on night side, right after the nine o'clock news,
It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good evening, everybody, welcome on in. It is a Thursday night.
Yeah again, it's one of those weird weeks because we
had Labor Day on Monday, but it is Thursday night. Nonetheless,
you can check your calendar. Believe me, I am telling
you the truth. We have a great show coming up.
We have a four guests during this hour, each of
whom have an intriguing story, and none more than more
(00:28):
intriguing than my first guest. And I'd like to introduce
everyone to Darryl Davis. Darryl is a civil rights activist.
He's also a professional musician and the co founder and
global ambassador for an organization called Pro Human Foundation. His
new book is called The Clean Whisper. It's a courageous
(00:50):
story and one that probably would seem very unlikely to
most of us. Darryl Davis, welcome to night, said, how
are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, thank you Dan for having me. Really appreciate it,
glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Uh, Darryl, I know you are not now, nor have
you ever been a member of the ku Klux Klan.
How are you? Yeah, you know, for those who do
not know. I don't think there are any black members
of the Ku Klux klan Is. And you have been
to klan meeting, so you're your very you know, presence
(01:30):
at a clan meeting does not indicate your support. But
for some reason, my friend, you decided to reach out,
not just a run of the mill clan member, but
you decided to reach out to one of these dudes
who runs around in the big white uh. I don't
know what they call them, these these funny looking hats. Yeah,
(01:52):
and we're not talking about robin hood, you know what
I'm saying, basically, how the heck did you ever come
up with this? I it certainly is a fascinating tail.
I watched your Ted talk today. It was inspiring. But
I want you to tell me story. And I know
I'm I'm kind of chuckling with you on this, but
this was deadly serious business when you began. It grew
(02:17):
into not necessarily friendship, but a relationship of sorts. So
what was your motivation? How did you get started on
this very interesting journey?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Okay, well, you know, I'm sixty seven years of age currently.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You're a young man, Darryl. You are a young man,
you don't know how young you are, but you.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Are a young Keep telling keep telling me that, please.
I wake up with a new pain every day. But
I mean, I grew up as a child of parents
in the US Foreign Service, So I was an American
embassy kid, traveling around the world beginning at the age
of three back in nineteen sixty one. And I've been,
you know, between my childhood and my adulthood now as
(03:01):
a professional musician, playing all over the country and around
the world, I've been to sixty four countries on six continents.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, used to live in Massachusetts. We got a lot
of you.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I did live in Belmont, Massachusetts, and I'm going to
tell you all about Belmont. That area was the was
the first place I ever experienced racism. And that's not
to say, you know, Belmonte is a racist town at all,
but of great people. In Belmont.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You were greeted by some jerks while you were carrying
the American flag in a Boy Scott parade.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That is correct. That is correct. And the first time
I was ever called the N word was in Belmont,
actually by by a lady who's now an attorney there
in Belmont. But anyway, yeah, I was. I was only
a black kid in a cub Scott parade and I
had rocks and bottles thrown at me and I didn't six.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I just want to make sure we know this is
nineteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Eight, nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
You know, doesn't excuse what happened to you, but it
does sort of set the stage for your later in
life outreach, which is the subject of a book care
The Clan Whisper.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Right, Yeah, My brand new book is called The Clan Whisper,
and I detail all that happened, which you know, which
led me into this, you know, a career of trying
to find out how can you hate me? You don't
even know me? And that's the question that I formed
at the age of ten after that incident. So, you know,
to answer your question, how do I get involved? Well,
who better to ask that question of than someone who
(04:34):
would go so far as to join an organization with
over one hundred year history of practicing hating people who
don't look like them or who don't believe as they believe.
So I began seeking out, you know, white supremacists, starting
with the KKKA, and of course I'd end up with
some neo Nazis and other you know, racist groups as
well as just you know, racist individuals.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So the story, and I also watched the CNN report
that was done a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You you you tell an amazing story. Uh. And I
know that we're consolidating it here into a few minutes,
but I want to sort of lead lead you to it.
You get to this meeting with I forget what was
this guy? An Imperial Wizard or Grand Dragon, you know,
whatever names they call themselves. This guy was one of
(05:26):
the top guys in the ku Kluk Klan. I'm sure
there's not a hopefully there's not a lot. But he's
the He's this guy who you set up a meeting with.
He shows up with his bodyguard who has a weapon.
You're unarmed, and the meeting is taking place in a
hotel room. Are you a little concerned at that point?
(05:48):
You know, I don't want to know. I was No.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I was not concerned at all, because, I mean, I
know what I'm getting into. I've done my homework, Okay,
I know, I know their abilities. I studied them, and
I wanted to meet them, you know, face to face.
I wanted to get it right from the horse's mouth.
I mean, I could have gone down the library or
congress or anywhere, and you know, I have a vast
library myself on books from the kou Klux Klan, but
(06:10):
I read them all. But now I want to get
it right from somebody who's who's emerged in that ideology.
So I knew what I was getting into. I was
not fearful.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You told you told a funny story, or you you
had prepared some refreshment, some uh soft drink, yeah whatever,
in a ice bucket, and at some point, with the
ice melting, all of a sudden there was this odd
ball odd noise which were simply the ice melting and
the the cans, you know, tumbling into the eye, you know,
(06:41):
with the ice, and all of a sudden, everybody up
and everybody was noise.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The noise was, you know, with the cans of soda
pop cascading down the ice in the ice bucket. And
we were so engrossed in conversation we've forgotten about that.
You know. The bucket was sitting over on the dresser
and it made this, know, this weird sound in the
middle of our of our conversation. It was still out
of context, you know, that we all jumped because it
startled us, and I thought he had made some weird
(07:09):
noise and you know, something was getting ready to happen,
and he thought I had made the weird noise, and
the bodyguard had his hand on his gun, you know,
looking at both of us, like which one of you
all made the weird noise?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
That also broke a little bit right ironically.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well it did as soon as my my secretary who
was who was present, uh, you know, figured out what
it was and was explaining it to us. Then we
all began laughing. But here, here's the here's the thing though. Then,
you know, we realized in that moment that we all
were human. We all felt fear, we all felt accusatory
of the other person, all because we were all ignorant
(07:42):
of what that noise was. But then when when when
the noise was addressed, the fear subsided and we all
began laughing. These are all human, human emotions, So in
that moment, we all were human. Now, we all didn't
realize that in the moment, but in retrospect, that's what
we realized. And you know, so it was a couple
(08:02):
of years later because I would continue, you know, talking
with this person and getting to know him, and I
could tell he was changing slowly but surely, and eventually
the same guy who oversaw the Klan, the Ku Klux
Klan in thirteen States renounced it and shut down his
thirteen chapters in thirteen states. Today I own his robe
(08:26):
and hood.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, and that's what is amazing. So is it fear
to say? And I don't want to, you know, a character,
it's your story through all of this, have you the
two of you actually become friends? How would?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Absolutely? Okay, fine, okay, I just the CNN story was
I think before his renunciation of.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Right, he was still yeah, I was attending one of
his rallies.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right, I mean, and you were still you were? It
was there was a I want to say, a mutual respect,
or at least a willingness to to to speak to
one another and treat each other in a civil fashion.
But yeah, sure, you.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Know, I've been around the world. I've been exposed to
a multitude different people, and I can tell you something,
no matter how far or how close we go from
our own country, whether it's right next door to Canada
or right next door to Mexico or halfway around the globe,
no matter who we meet, everybody is a human being,
and every human being wants these five core values in
(09:38):
their lives. Everyone wants to be loved. We all want
to be respected, we want to be heard, we want
to be treated fairly and truthfully, and we want the
same things for our family as anybody else would want
for their family. If we can learn, when we find
ourselves in an adversarial situation, it doesn't have to be
about racist, to be about any controversial topics, you know,
global warming, the last president election, the current war is
(10:01):
going on, or abortion. Whatever you're on one side so
much on the other side, apply those five core values,
and I guarantee you that your navigation of that situation,
that culture, that society will be much more smooth, much
more productive, and much more positive. And these are the
five core values that I would apply with this guy. Ideologically,
we couldn't be further apart. But I would listen to him.
(10:24):
I would show him that respect, not respecting what he's saying,
but respecting his right to say it. And so it's
a huge He would reciprocate and treat me fairly and
hear me out. And so in the end he found
that what I was telling him made more sense than
what he had believed, and slowly, but surely it caused
a cognitive dissonance, you know, was shattered his false beliefs
(10:47):
in a supremacist ideology, which led to him, you know,
denouncing the ideology and renouncing his membership in it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
No, you're an extraordinary individuals going to be a great read.
It's called The Clan Whisperer. Uh, it's been out. I
assume it's out available Amazon bookstores, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That is correct Amazon.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
All right. I just want to say it's a pleasure
to meet you.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
My pleasure.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I certainly feel you've lived a very interesting life. In
this book will be fascinating. You also are with a
group called the Pro Human Foundation. Is that a Is
that an organization that you are the head of or
is that an organization.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
You're I'm a co founder. I am a co founder
of the Pro Human Foundation along with Letitia Tim an
attorney from California, and Bayan Bartney and an entrepreneur from
from New York City by you know, but now living
in Florida. You know, we know, we got tired of
hearing what people were against. I'm anti racist. I'm anti this,
(11:48):
I'm anti that. Well, let's talk about what we're pro. Sure, Okay,
you know we're pro human. Everybody's a human, even that
is human, not that we not that we accepted, but
we work towards was bringing humanity together, and we and
and and re instilling humanity in in people by finding
common traits.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Again, an incredible individual is the Pro Human Foundation? Is
that easy website for folks to find? And I assume
that your book is.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Just just go to a pro human foundation dot org.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Perfect? Okay, and the book is the Clean and Whisperer Darrel.
I wish I had more time to talk to you.
Maybe some night in the not too distant future we
could spend an entire hour together. Uh and phone calls
some of our listeners. Okay, maybe some of those absolutely
in Belmont have have matured and would uh would want
to call it.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Maybe I'll give you the ladies, maybe even call her
and have her calling as well.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, I'm an attorney too, so don't hold it against attorneys.
Well you might know her, probably not. There's a lot
of attorneys in Massachusetts there, that's what they. Yeah, we
have we have we have an over abundance, no doubt. Dale.
Thank you very much. I really enjoyed it. Pro Human
Foundation dot org. The book is the Clan Whisper Darrel.
(13:08):
We might get back to you. We'll do. We'll do
a longer segment with phone callers. Thanks again for it,
all right, happy to do it, appreciate it. We get back.
We're going to talk about getting finding your best life
in college with the Vice Provo of Undergraduate Education and
the Hurst Professor of Communication at of all places, Stanford University.
Stay with us, particularly if you're just sending or I
(13:29):
have sent someone off to college. You'll learn a lot.
In the next segment, that was an extraordinary conversation with
Darryl Davis. I thank him. We will have him back
at some point for an entire hour back on Night
Side right after this, on this Thursday.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Night, Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm Boston's News.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Radio delighted to be joined by the Vice Provo for
Undergraduate Education and the Hurst Professor of Communication at Stanford University,
Professor James. I'm told you like to go by the
name Jay. Professor James J. Hamilton, How are you a professor?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Great?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, thank you very much. I think everybody knows that
Stanford in Palo Alto is one of the great universities
in this country, and there are a lot of young
people who were off to college for the first time.
And you have a new book out you got in
now what one hundred Insights into finding your best life
in College? The first question that I always have to
(14:30):
ask someone who writes a book is and I'd love
to know what prompted you at this point in your
career to write this book. I'm sure you have been
at universities and colleges for other incoming freshman classes. Anything
about young people today that prompted the book or no?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yes, I had two sons recently go through college, and
I saw that the summer before they went they were excited,
but they didn't have a strategy. So I decided to
write the book that I wish it had when they were
approaching college.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, you know, Bill Belichick was excited on Monday Night
for his UNC debut, but he apparently didn't have a
strategy either. Only getting a little bit of a joke
here for New England, what is the advice that you
book in parts? Again, it's one hundred insights We're not
going to go through one hundred of them, but give
us the overwatching theme so people will get a sense
of why they need to have this book, particularly if
(15:24):
they're sending children or grandchildren off to college anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
I think the theme is that you have more freedom
than you realize. Choosing your major is not choosing your career.
A lot of times I'll talk to people their first
week in college. They're already thinking major. But really only
about a quarter of people working jobs that's directly related
to what they majored in. And over ninety percent of
(15:51):
employers will tell you it's your ability to think critically
and communicate clearly, whether than your major, that determines your
success job.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Why is that not message? Imparted. I have two children,
they're not children anymore. They both went to what is
called the Stanford of the East, a little, little small
college across the Charles River here, and they were you know,
I always was asking them, as apparent, watch your major
(16:23):
watching major. My major was English, and I think I
took one communications course in undergraduate before as an undergraduate
before I went to law school, and I end up
with a career in the media thirty years in television
and now nearly twenty years in radio. Why do why
do universities not kind of explain that to their customers,
(16:47):
the students that they are in the process of educating.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
We try to we and it's implicit when we say
you don't need to declare your major until the end
of your sophomore year. But what happens is you mentioned parents.
Parents start asking on paying the bill, where's it leading,
and they want early confirmation that what you're studying is
(17:16):
going to result in a job. But when you look
at the statistics, really it's that critical thinking skill. Can
you spot a problem, gather information, can you weigh evidence,
challenge assumptions. That's what's going to be important to you
over time. And there's even a lot of misinformation about
(17:36):
which majors pay the most. I wouldn't use lifetime income
as a way to judge your success, but if you
use that narrow metric, the Hamilton Project shows that, sure,
the median com Computer science major is going to earn
more than the median history major or philosophy major, but
(17:56):
at the ninetieth percentile. If you're at the ninetieth percentile
of history or philosophy majors, you actually out earned the
ninetieth percentile of computer science majors, because you may go
to law school just like you did, or you may
become a manager. So you really need to think about
yourself not as average, but what really resonates with you,
(18:18):
because if you choose what really resonates with you, you'll
end up you have a higher probability of ending up
at that ninetieth percentile.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I have a lot of leaders of colleges and law
schools on my program as guests. You know, president of
Vanderbilt recently, the head of the medical school at the
University of Michigan. And one of the things, as you know,
that's going on here also particularly amongst the Ivy League schools,
(18:49):
is that the Trump administration is pressuring the Ivy League
schools to I guess have more diversity of thought in
a opinion amongst the faculty. One of the things that
I'm concerned about, and it's not a political concern, but
one of the things that I'm concerned about is a
(19:12):
sense that college is supposed to be a pe tradish
of ideas where you bring your ideas to that pea tradition,
those ideas are challenged others bring their ideas that those
ideas are challenge so that college is not supposed to
be a comfortable place. It's supposed to be a place
where you learn maybe that where you grew up there's
(19:36):
a greater variety out there of thought and opinion. And
I don't think colleges have done a great job in
that in the last twenty or so years. From your
perspective as a college administrator, How wrong am I on
that assumption?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I don't think you're wrong, And in fact, five years
ago Stanford started something. In our introductory year, we have
a class called Citizenship the twenty first Century that two
thirds of our students take, and it's all focused on
active listening and civil discourse. Civil not as polite, but
(20:11):
really trying to understand what the other person is saying,
not necessarily to persuade them, but to truly understand them,
and to test your own ideas. So we start with
John Stuart Mill and the idea that if you don't
test your ideas, you're just living a dead dogma, and
then we back it up. We actually had something on
the reading list who was appointed to the Trump administration,
(20:33):
Jay Bodicharia, as a.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Guest I've had Professor Bodicharia on the program.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
So yeah, yeah, so he had the NIH and some
people said, well, are you going to take him off
the Sylvice Now we said, of course not. We didn't
do that when somebody was appointed to the Biden administration.
Why would we do that. And actually in that class,
we have something called contract grating, so that if you
do the assignments and you do them diligently, you get
(21:01):
full credit for that. And the reason that we do
that is it really frees up students. It's taught in
a group of fifteen people that you see twenty times
over the quarter, so you get to know them really well.
It's taught in a way that you don't censure yourself
because it's just your participation showing you did the reading,
not whether you're on the left or the right. And
(21:22):
I do think that especially at Stanford, we've been we've
been trying to balance views. I also direct the journalism program,
so I brought the sixteen nineteen project out here and
Nicole Hanna Jones and Kye c. Lehman spoke to a
full crowd. Next year, I brought out Brett Stevens and
he did a wonderful job. This year we had Marty
(21:44):
Baron talk about threats to press freedom, but we did
it at the Zoober Institution, so we really are taking
it seriously.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Now. By the way, everyone you just mentioned Marty Baron,
Brett Stevens at some point in time I've been on
this program. One of the things we do with the show,
and we're doing it for eighteen years, is all points
of or welcome, all points of view hopefully are respected.
The idea is that this is a place where people
can disagree without being can disagree agreeably without being disagreeable.
(22:12):
Is very very important to me, So look, I appreciate it.
Let's talk about the book here, just for a final
second or so. How can people and particularly parents, grandparents
who maybe are looking for a gift for a student
heading off to college, or maybe they'll put one in
the mail now that the students have landed at their
appointed locations, how can they best get this? I assume
(22:35):
it's available. I assume it's on Amazon. I assume it's
available at good bookstores. Is there any other way you
want to direct people?
Speaker 4 (22:42):
No, you've covered it all, and I really do stress
that college is really exciting. But the students really have
and they realize that's the message of the book. And
I hope the students get it.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Professor Hamilton, thank you very much. Keep up the great
work at Stanford. It is one of the great universities
in this country. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Thank you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Well we get back. We going to talk about a
different type book. It's a children's book called Elephant Beach.
You're going to talk with the author, Christine Devane. Right
after the news here at the bottom of the air
went a couple of minutes long there, but we will
get everybody in. We have a couple of interesting different
guests coming up this half hour. We're also going to
talk with an expert on a traditional Japanese method of
(23:26):
printing called jiatuka. I believe I PRONOUNSA correctly. We'll find
out for sure. Coming back on Night Type.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
My next guest is a guest is an author, Christine Devane.
I got the correct pronunciation? Is a divein or Doani
help me out here? Christine? Okay, I just always like
the double check. You know a lot of people they're
kind of shy actually even adults, and they'll let a
mispronunciation go by. That's why I ask. So you're the
(24:03):
author of a children's book. You're a former elementary school teacher.
Where did you teach elementary school? So?
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I taught elementary school in Wallfam Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
So you're a Massachusetts born and bred. I guess your
mom listens to our show.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yeah, so my mom Joyce and my dad Tony Arrigo,
they are both listening and they are very big fans.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, that is great, Thank them both for me, and
give them both a hug for me. You bumped into
my producer or the night Side producer, I can't say
my producer, the producer of Nightside Marita aka Lady Lightning
at the in Boston magazine party. And so this was
a happy coincidence for you and a happy coincidence for us.
(24:48):
So you've written a book. It's a children's book. When
you say children's book, give me the age range that
this works for you.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
So it's targeted for Ford eight. Honestly, any child can
read it. My daughter's too, and she loves sitting down.
I mean she's not reading it, but she loves sitting
down and looking at the pictures and hearing the story.
So it's targeted basically for any kid between up until
the ages of eight.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Okay, and it's entitled Elephant Beach. I'm sure this is
a plot and a storyline that you can explain pretty
pretty directly, and then let's talk about the lesson that
is imparted. It's a little girl who likes to go
to the beach and one day she meets a I
don't know if you say it's a herd or a
(25:35):
pot or whatever, a group of elephants. Go ahead, tell
us the story.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
So it's about a little girl.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
She's shy.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
She goes to the beach. She wants to be by herself,
and there's a group of elephants that are almost annoying her,
but they don't mean to be annoying. They do things
like block the sun because they're so big when they walk.
The stand gets on her towel and they invite the
little girl to play, but she's a little apprehensive. She
wants to stay by herself, and then eventually she gets
(26:05):
enough courage to join the group and she has a
fun day with everyone at the well, all the elephants
at the beach. So it has a message for introverts
that it's okay to sometimes take a little while to
warm up to a group. Then it also has a
message for extroverts that sometimes it's nice to invite somebody
who's sitting by themselves to join the group.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
And what prompt to do was I'm sure that you
must have seen some of these behaviors characteristics, however you
want to describe them amongst students that you taught.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Right, Yes, And I was actually extremely shy when I
was growing up, So I was quiet reading a book
by myself. And now I have a shy son too,
So I think there's lots of shy kids out there,
but there's not a lot of books that really focus
on being shy.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Well, I can remember reading to my kids many years ago.
They're both in their thirties now, Where the Wild Things Are?
Did you, as a young person, because I'm assuming that
you're probably close to their age, do you remember that
book Where the Wild Things Are?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Yeah, I love that book.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, And so how would you compare your book Elephant Beach.
I haven't read Elephant Beach yet, but I will, and
I do have a couple of grandchildren who that book
will be read to thank you very much. Is it
similar than Where the Wild Things Are? I assume it is.
Maybe I'm not. If it isn't police disabuse me of
(27:38):
that notion.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
Well, it's similar, and it's different in different aspects. They're
both about children joining a group, in one creatures and
in one elephants and having fun together. I've actually never
heard it compared to that book, but they are both stories,
(28:01):
and they are similar in that sense the.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Beach.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I also think that these type of books, and some
people might say, well, you know, that's a silly story.
Some adults who if they they perk up the imagination
of the kids because the kids are more interested in
the story, which which makes that's why kids love a
book like Elephant Beach or Where the Wild Things Are.
They're not looking at it from a literal perspective. Uh
(28:31):
As maybe some you know, adults might and say, well, well,
there are no such things as wild things, or why
would they be elephants at a beach? I mean it
is it. I assume both of those books, and and
particularly the book we're talking about, your book, Elephant Beach,
invigorates their their ideas, of their their imaginations and their
(28:51):
creativity right or wrong. I'm not a sociologist, and if
I'm wrong, you can tell me. If I'm right, I'll
take I'll take No it does.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
That's that's the whole thing. It's all based on imagination
and a fun day at the beach. And I've been
doing a lot of classroom visits and one of the
things we talk about after we finished reading the book
is what would you want to do with an elephant
at the beach? Obviously that's using their imagination, and I
think the number one answer is eat a huge ice
(29:20):
cream with an elephant. But yeah, it helps kids to
really use their imagination, use their creativity. And then it's
also a good way to get them to connect to
their own experiences because most kids have been to the beach,
so they like to share with me what they did
at the beach. And then elephants are my favorite animals,
so we have a lot of discussions about their favorite animals.
(29:42):
And I went to a classroom one day and a
girl had a shirt with elephants on because she loved
elephants and she couldn't wait to tell me about it.
So it connects to them in real life situations. And
then also it brings out their imagination.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Great. I mean that was that was the best elevator
pitch I could hear for the book. Now folks can
get the book. It's out. I assume I don't want
to make any mistakes here. I assume it's available on Amazon.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
Yes, so it's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and
that I have a website, Christine, and then it's a
hyphen divein.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Okay, Now is there an advantage of them going directly
to the website. Can you inscribe the book to a
child or a grandchild.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
On the website?
Speaker 7 (30:32):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (30:33):
You get it signed?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, if somebody writes so, there's a page on the
website that says contact me, and that goes directly to me.
So if anybody wants anything signed, or people have been
sending things about classroom visits or library visits, they can
sell that all out on the website.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah. And I think it's great because when even though
the child might be five or six, four or five
or six years old, if the book becomes a special book,
when when it's autographed by the author, and so as
long as I just want to give people an opportunity again,
give us your website. Obviously, they can order it on Amazon,
they can go to the Barnes and Noble Easypsy, but
(31:17):
if they want to get it personalized, give us the
website one more time.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
So it's Christine and then there's a hyphen divein and
on the website. It also has events that I'm going to.
And then there's also I had some of the pages
made into coloring book pages so people can print those
out for free. But if anyone has any special requests,
everything on the website goes directly to me.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Okay, and it's not Christine Hyphendvane dot org or something
like that or dot com. It's just Christine hyphen Devane
and they will they will be dot com. Okay. I
got to throw that in there because just want to
make sure that we get it right. That's Christine hyphen
Devane dev ame dot com. Christine, thanks very much, and
(32:02):
please say how to your mom and dad for us.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Okay, I will thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Very welcome we get back. We're going to talk about
something very different. A local artist who freed's unique fish
prints using the traditional Japanese method of printing fish called
I think it's pronounced. We'll figure it out though. Gia taco,
a practice which dates back to the mid eighteen hundreds,
I think around the time Abe Lincoln was president. We'll
talk about this right after the break.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
It's nice side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Okay, my next guest is doing something that I know
nothing about, so I'm going to be all hears. Joe
Higgins is the owner of Joe's Fresh Fish Prints. Joe,
I have never heard of this. It is a process
called giataku. Have I pronounced it correctly? If not? Helped
me out.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
It is called geo taku.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You're close close, but okay, fine, gio gio taco. Joe,
I've never heard of this. I I guess you do
fish prints with an actual fish. Tell us the process
number one? Are you the only person who does this
around this Necklai? Would you're up up in Cape in
(33:13):
the Cape Ann.
Speaker 8 (33:14):
Area, as I understand, Yeah, So I'm in So, I'm
in Gloucester. Yeah, and I just I recently moved from
to Salem. So I went from I went from the
witches to the fishes and uh, and what I do
is I use an actual fish to make my prints.
(33:37):
I started at about fifteen years ago. And it's a
Japanese art been around for centuries, but I'm one of
the few people in the New England area that do it.
It's kind of popular in Hawaii and Florida, the type
of thing.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
How did you find out about this? Did you? Did
you take a trip somewhere and said, hey, that's pretty cool.
I think I can do that.
Speaker 7 (34:02):
No, a friend of mine, So I was. I was
a kayak fisherman, so two fishfall.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
The only place I fish at is at the grocery store.
Speaker 7 (34:13):
All right, all right, so I was running, go ahead,
we got it. So if about fifteen years ago, I
was running a fishing tournament. I was looking for something
different to do, and a friend of mine had a
geo taku on his wall, and I, you know, I
(34:34):
went to art school. I figured I could do that.
So here I am. Fifteen years later. I have got
three locations, two locations one in Rockport on Bearskin Neck
and the newest one in Gloucester. And I have a
small shop on Rocky Neck in Gloucester where I live.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Okay, So now do people come in there with their
fish and you show them how to do this this
or or basically, do people come in and simply say, hey,
show me a fish print. Show them they're gonna you know,
they hang this. These are pieces of art. This is
like a painting. Uh you know it's not painting, but
it's you basically use the the image of the fish,
(35:16):
the actual image of the fish, as the piece of artwork,
and it obviously has to be probably done very delicately
and very carefully. I assume.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
Yeah, So most of my fish come from So say Dan,
say you fished, which I know you don't. Now, So
say you went to Whole Foods and you said, oh,
that's a nice looking fish. You know, I'd love to
have a print of it. So if someone has a
fish and they want to eat the fish, but they
(35:45):
also want a record of it, instead of doing a mile,
I'll actually take the fish. I use a water based ink,
so you can eat the fish. After the prints done,
nothing goes to waste. I'll make a print of the fish,
and then they take the fish back with them and
they get a sort of a visual representation of the
(36:09):
fish they can put on the wall. I do all
the framing the whole nine yards and they can eat
the fish.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Now, most people bringing in. Then they're not bringing Hey, Joe,
I caught this three pound tuna who we have out
in the back of it. We're not talking about fish
like that. We're talking about pretty yeah side.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
We are talking about fish like that. Really, I have printed.
I've printed on the boat. A couple of my friends
are on Wicked Tuna. Okay, we've ever seen that the
TV show.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
So I don't play baseball, but I watch currently, but
I watch baseball games. So even though I don't fish, yeah,
I've watched some of those fishing shows. They take their
wife in their hands when they go out. Sometimes. That's
one of the reasons I don't fish. They're braver than me.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
Joe, go ahead, Yeah, So whenever when it comes into
my shop, they said, oh, you must be an excellent fisherman.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
What's the biggest fish print that you've ever produced for someone?
Speaker 7 (37:12):
Well, I've printed a like you said, three hundred and
fifty pound fish.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I have no idea what.
Speaker 7 (37:22):
So I printed this, you know, maybe a five hundred
pound bluefin tuna right on the boat.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I do you know?
Speaker 7 (37:30):
Most people can't, you know, bring that to me. So
I end up printing the tail of the bluefin tuna,
you know, which is a lot easier to get into
my shop than the whole tuna. So instead of you know,
say guys were going out on a charter and they
caught a big tuna. Most of the tuna end up
(37:51):
in Japan. You know. They saw the they saw the.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Fish, so they cut off the tail bit, which then
becomes the print, which is the memory of the catch.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (38:02):
Yeah, so I can make it, you know, if they
have three or four guys on the charter, you know,
instead of you know, everyone gets a a print of
the fish, and they're all happy and they have something
to put on their walls.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
They can and they can brag about it. It's better
than trying to throw the tuner, the three hundred or
five hundred pound tuoner in the trunk of the car.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
See, well, let's get it.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
To Joe's place. Joe, how can folks get in touch
with you? That's the main purpose of this. I think
it's interesting. You certainly have explained it much better than
I ever would have imagined. What's the easiest way for
folks to get in touch with you?
Speaker 7 (38:38):
I have a website they can go, so I teach.
If you Dan, if you want to come up and
take a class. I will actually teach you how to
print a fish and you can go to fish Impressions
dot com or Joe's Fresh Fishprints dot com. It's hard
to say twice in a row.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Let's say the first one one more time so that
people can what is that first one?
Speaker 7 (39:02):
Fish impressions fish F I, S H E D and
then Impressions. So it's kind of a plan.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Words.
Speaker 7 (39:10):
I was an advertising never waved a good pun. Okay,
fish fish Impressions dot com perfect or Joe's Fresh Fishprints
dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
All right, great, Joe, nice to Uh. I will not
be coming up. I'm I'm in a whole different part
of the state right now. But it's interesting and it's
interesting that that these fun days out on the water,
you not only can get a sunburn and maybe catch
a fish, but you also then can get a print
of it and you can post it, put it up
(39:42):
on your wall and have it as proof of your daring.
Speaker 7 (39:47):
Jews just we just opened a new gallery in Gloucester
right on Main Street. So if you're on if you're
in Gloucester and you here in the neighborhood, come on
by two O six Main Street.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
All right, Joe Higginson, thank you very much, owner of
Joe's Fresh Fish Prints. Say that three or four times
in a row. Thanks Joe, appreciate it very much.
Speaker 7 (40:06):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
All Right, we get back. We're going to talk with
Merril candidate Josh Kraft. He has just loaned his campaign
a fairly significant amount of money, which maybe suggests that
he might be in better shape than some of those
polls from about a month ago. We're suggesting, way back then,
back on night side, right after the nine o'clock news,
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