October 23, 2025 • 38 mins
The FBI unearthed a historic illegal sports betting scheme and rigged poker games Thursday, involving 4 NBA teams and 4 Mafia crime families that reportedly made $7 million over a 2-year period. Portland Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups, Miami Heat guard Terry Rozier and former NBA player Damon Jones are among those caught up in the scheme, who have been indicted. We will discuss all the details involving this bombshell gambling bust! Dan Shaughnessy, sportswriter for the Boston Globe, joined us to discuss!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Boston's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, thanks to Scott Brown for spending an hour with
us and those of you who had a chance to call.
I mean, the first guy who called, Dave from Wyoming,
he is he's one of these guys. I don't know
what century he's living in, but he represents a constituency
of probably about four or five people. And when I
(00:27):
saw the call from come in from Wyoming and I asked,
I kind of thought it was him, and I thought
he had a couple of questions, which were dumb questions,
but Scott Brown handled the questions very well. But when
he starts talking about you know, revolution, I mean, this
is there's some dangerous people on the far right and
the far left, and if I have my way, he
(00:48):
will not make another appearance on this program. Whatever state
he calls from, I think I'm going to have get
his number and make sure that. I mean, it's a
waste of time you're talking to somebody like that, taking
up very valuable time. Anyway, apologize for that. But the
other callers all were interesting callers, and I thought that
(01:08):
they made some interesting points. Well, we woke up this morning,
those of you who were around and listen to a
news conference in New York which was stunning, a stunning
news conference of gambling and betting and fraud. I mean,
those are the allegations now. Whenever we cover an event
(01:29):
like this, the implications are breathtaking. Every major league sport
has at different times been touched by some form of scandal.
But I don't think there's a bigger scandal than we
have than we have dealt with. And I am delighted
(01:50):
to be joined by Dan Shaughnessy from the Boston Globe. Dan,
of course, who covered the Boston Celtics for many years
as a beat you know he's a columnist now wrote
an incredible book about the Celtics in the nineteen eighties
when basketball was really peaking in this country. Dan Shaughnessy, welcome,
(02:12):
Thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well thanks for having me Dan.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know, I was stunned at the breath, the scope,
and the I mean, you have former NBA players who
allegedly were involved with mafioso gangs. And not only were
they involved in not point shaving, but they have these
bets where you can bet on someone you know is
(02:37):
going to only play so many minutes or score so
many points. You've covered sports a long time. Where would
you put, assuming that there's truth to this, where would
you put this scandal in that galaxy of sports scandals,
whether it's the Black Sox of nineteen nineteen, Pete Rose,
or Paul Horning and Alex Harrison and the NFL back
(03:02):
in the day, Boston College, I know, had a basketball
scandal many years ago, back in the late sixties. This
is this is as big as I can imagine if
this was true. And again, assuming these folks have presumption
of innocence, well.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, I think in our lifetime this is there, and
the Rose thing was very big in our lifetime. But
you know this, in American sports, it starts and ends
with the Black Sox scandal nineteen ninety the White Sox,
you know, taking money to throw the World Series. You
got to remember how big that event was, you know,
one hundred and six years ago. It was the only
event that mattered in the country in terms of sports.
(03:38):
And then they got eight guys who you know, admitted
taking payments, and it was it was short money compared
to now. But that led to the creation of the
Commission's Office in Major League baseball can of Mountainlands brought
into clean up the sport, and that's why the rules
have been so strong for one hundred and six years,
and the players are all well aware of this. But
(03:58):
as you and I both know, in the last you know,
a couple of decades, the legalized betting has crept its
way in and the leagues have partnered with them DraftKings, FanDuel,
et cetera. And it's it's amusing to watch these pieces
on ESPN and whatnot today where the gambling crawls are
underneath the content that you're seeing talking about the scandal,
(04:19):
and it's like Claude Rains and Casablanca, you know, shocked,
shocked by the gambling, and here are your winnings, captain,
you know so, but yeah, this is up there. If
this stuff turns out to be true, and of course,
having a coach and uh, you know, players and information
and then the mafia component of it is certainly juicy
as well. So we'll see how it shakes up. But
it looks bad for these guys, it does.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And the concern that you have is that if if
if these guys start to if there are others involved,
and I'm not suggesting there are. But if all of
a sudden the federal prosecutors think they're a bigger fish
in the pond than even the fish that they've pulled
out of this pond. You have people who cut deals
and who you have no idea where this can go.
(05:03):
And of course this is on the heels the NBA
has just has has signed this this new well, I
guess this is about a year ago, a seventy six
billion dollar deal. You know, for media coverage. How much
how much does do you think this hurts the league
which is has really become I think even more of
(05:26):
an international league following than even NFL Football, which you're
doing their best to play games in Ireland and England
and Germany and Argentina and Mexico. This is what what
do you think the long term impact is or does
the NBA just put their head down and say this
was an anomaly.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And I tend to survive these things again, the baseball
thing one hundred and six years ago was the closest
to really threatening out of the foundation of the sport
we've had. You know, the NBA had a thing with
one of the officials, Tim Donoghan twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Jail time, did he not?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
And you've got the individuals in this thing, Rose here
and Ben Phillips is in the Hall of Fame who've
made it north of one hundred million dollars in their careers.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
And you know, like you say.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Why are they in these things? You know, well, easy money,
you know, the temptation of easy, easy money and stuff.
Now on the level, it's always going to be there,
and it's only a matter of time. It's been clear.
This has always been present, but in the last twenty
years with the partnerships with the legalized gambling outlets, and
it's just impossible to think that you're going to have
all your players, you know, heed the warnings that they
(06:34):
cannot get involved, and you're seeing this and it doesn't
surprise me. It'll be they'll be moore, it'll be worse,
and we'll be having the same conversation a year from now,
five years from now.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Okay, you know this stuff better than I do. But
it seems to me that what at the core of
the betting aspect there. But we'll put aside the polker
the gambling access, yeah, is what they call the prop bets,
meaning I'm going to bet that this player is not
going to get five assistants game, or he's not going
to play any more than twenty minutes. Those sorts of
individual bets. Does that make it more likely that a
(07:07):
player can It's it's it's easier to get one player
to say, yeah, I'm coming up with a sprained ankle
later tonight, or I'm not going to play much tonight.
It seems to me that they probably need to eliminate
the prop bets.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, that would be one thing.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
And you know, they're they they make.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It easier to discover this behavior going on because when
you see a lot of action on one guy who's
not going to play more than ten minutes, So why
is there so much action on that particular thing tonight,
So that that that's a flag and that gets attention.
That's how some of this stuff gets discovered. And so
the legalized gamblers will tell you, well, our our our
(07:46):
existence helps them weed out the bad guys, you know,
So that's that that'll be part of the defense of this.
But but yeah, I mean, you're not gonna you're not
going to be able to stop it, and uh, and
the leagues have decided there's so much money in this.
They want a piece of it, and they're and they're
barnering with the league last gamblers.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So you're saying, the genies out of the bottle.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Oh, that's absolutely that this ship has sailed. It's like
trying to defend you know, college sports as amateur sports anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's just over. Wow. Dan, I always want you to
have the opportunity to talk about your experience with the Celtics,
which you have memorialized in a great book about your
time covering the Celtics. It was probably the best years
of pro basketball, the Bird years, and all the great
(08:33):
players that the Celtics had at the time, and the
great rivalries that existed at the time, built on the
great rivalries of the sixties and seventies, it really peaked,
you know, with what you were covering in the eighties.
Just reference if you would the book, because frankly, a
lot of people who still love basketball and they love it.
(08:56):
When you could, you know, actually have access to the players,
you know, Larry Bird would be around town or whatever,
it was a different time. It was a different era.
I hate to say it, but we're talking thirty five
years or oh sure, okay, but it's the time that's
in the lives of people, and with the holidays coming up,
there's a I think that this book should be a
(09:20):
gift for some of people of my age and maybe
even younger who want to learn about basketball. When basketball
was really king of the world here and king of
the world in Boston at the.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Times called wish it lasted forever in life with the
Larry Bird Celtics that was a pandemic still available on Amazon.
But but yeah, it goes back to that time in
the eighties when really the NBA got to the started
its path to being a global sport like it is
today and why it's got so much sway over young
people and they really you know, it's a social media sport.
(09:53):
Young people like it. It's a past active game, and
you've got players from all over the world in the
game now. But that started in the eighties and as
you say, in that time covering the team for the Celtics,
they were a very colorful team and we got to
be with them all the time. We were just forced
to be together, like when you're in college or the
service with somebody who're just with them all the time.
So yeah, we really were able to tell the fans,
the readers, what the players were like back then because
(10:14):
of the unusual access that we had then. That's not
coming back. So that's what that book was about. I
appreciate you bringing it up. And it did start the
NBA with David Stern, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson
on the path to the popularity that it enjoys today,
and I think we'll continue to enjoy. It's just going
to be, you know, you're always going to have this
this this possibility of tainted, tainted games, you know, and
(10:38):
just you have to sort of suspend your reality a
little bit to buy into it one hundred percent after
when these sort of stories break.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The beauty of your book. And again, I'm sure a
lot of my audience has read it, but for those
who haven't read it, it was a time in Boston
when the Red Sox were still floundering. They had some
good players, but they they weren't going to eighty six
World Series was about as close as and as it got.
The Bruins were the Bobby Or era had ended, and
(11:09):
they had good players, but they they would be lose.
They'd lose every couple of years to the Edmonton Oils.
The Patriots were just be well, they had been around
a long time. But the Celtics with the tradition of
the fifties and the sixties and into the seventies and eighties,
and it was just a great time. And the access
(11:30):
that you had and that you write about people can
only dream about today. Not only could the fans only
dream about it, but the sports writers can only dream
about it. That's the beauty of your book. In my
opinion on the Celtics, it's just a fabulous read.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And those are great years. And like you say, I
don't know, you don't get that back. And I appreciated having,
you know, the Prillars to cover that team at that
time and to do it in a time when we
were so so forced to be together with them and
really understand what was what made their buddy tick and
harder to do today and and you're going to find
out people are going to be trying to find out
(12:04):
what makes Terry Roseer tick and all this stuff going
on with why would this happen? But the possibility is
there when you make a pitch reezy money and you know,
kind of rig the system, and that's what the peerce
have gone on here.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. Look, I so appreciate you taking the time with
us tonight, and we'll uh well, we'll follow on with
a conversation here with folks. But thanks, thanks Dan for
being available tonight. And it's not a it's not a
fun topic to uh to discuss, that's for sure. It
has really put a horrific mark on the game that
(12:37):
you love and the game that so many people love.
And it'll be interesting to hear the comments from some
of the players of the era that you covered, you know,
the the Bill Bradley's and the and the McHale's and
the Birds and the Robert Parishes, uh and the Danny Ainge.
It will be interested to see what they have to
(12:58):
say because they made these they made good money, but
it wasn't anywhere near the money a lot of these
guys have made and yet oh no. Yeah, so it'll
be interesting. Thanks so much, my friend. We will talk soon.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Okay, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Night Dan, Thank you soon.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
All right, we come back. I'm going to open up
the conversation. I'm also going to play a little bit
from the news conference today so that all of you
can catch up on it. But this is a sad
day for professional basketball. And again I listened to the
news conference. I'm a lawyer. The presumption of innocence for
means and it was mentioned at the news conference, but
(13:35):
it seemed to me like it was a very professional job.
I guess over thirty people were arrested around the country today, again,
including three players who in won a Hall of Fame
member Chauncey Phillips, who either were drafted by the Celtics
or played for the Celtics. And it's not a good
story for professional sports. It's not a good story for basketball,
(13:58):
but we will talk about it if you'd like to
weigh in on it. Does it change your view of
pro sports or does it change your view of pro basketball?
Or do you just assume what was going on anyway?
Six one seven two thirty six one seven. We'll get
comments from today, and you've heard from Dan Shaughnessy. I
want to hear what you have to say as well.
(14:18):
Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you
BEAZ Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Okay, we have some calls lined up, Pete, Bill, and Andrew.
I'm going to get to you guys right after the
news So you're gonna you guys will be the first
ones up. But I just want to play one cut
today from This is FBI Director Cash Patel talking about this.
This this indictment, arrest people arrested. This is cut thirty
(14:49):
seven Rong, the FBI director.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
Today, we're here in New York to announce a historic
arrests across a wide, sweeping criminal enterprise that envelops both
the NBA and lacos. The men and women up here
standing with me represent a small portion of the leadership
team that brought profound justice in an era that needed
it more than any I'll just highlight some of the
(15:12):
some of the details in the case and the FBI work,
and then you'll hear from the others. But as you
now know, individuals such as Chauncey Billups, Damon Jones, and
Terry Rozier were taking into custody today former current NBA
players and coaches. What you don't know is that this
is an illegal gambling operation and sports rigging operation that
(15:33):
spanned the course of years. The FBI led a coordinative
takedown across eleven states to arrest over thirty individuals today
responsible for this case, which is very much ongoing.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That is the breadth of the story today. And here
is the amount of money that is involved. One last
sound bite, and then we're going to go to the news.
We're going to get right to callers. Cut thirty nine, Rob.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
You hear a lot about our work of defending the
homeland and crushing violent crime. Well, this work is also
representative of a colossal portion of the FBI's mandate to
keep America safe and to keep our entertainment industry fair
and secure. The men and women that are standing up
here today worked tireless hours, days, months, and years, and
the fraud is mind boggling. It's not hundreds of dollars,
(16:22):
it's not thousands of dollars. It's not tens of thousands
of dollars. It's not even millions of dollars. We're talking
about tens of millions of dollars in fraud and theft
and robbery across a multi year investigation. And we could
not have done it without our inneragency partners that are
before us today.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And this.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Is a body blow to the NBA. All of us
here in Boston loved the Celtics. We love basketball, but
this is a stain on professional basketball. Chauncey Phillips just
in acted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. The coach,
(17:04):
I'm not sure if he's still the coach of the
Portland Trailblazers. I suspect he will soon be the ex
coach Terry Rosier who spent four years here in Boston.
Phillips who was who was drafted Pillips, I should say,
drafted by the Celtics. It's it's it's just it's an
extraor I mean it dwarfs. As far as in concerned,
(17:25):
Pete Rose was a manager who apparently admitted that he
bet on his own team. That was unacceptable. This is
this is crime. These high stake poker players when they
talk about they literally had their pockets picked. They will
(17:46):
they were lambs being led to slaughter. We're going to
take a break. I want to hear from as many
of you in the next hour and a half. I
want to talk about this until midnight. This is the
story of the day. Uh, it is a huge story. Again,
the men who are indicted today, even the people in
the carstinostra u the Costinostra, they deserve and they enjoy
(18:09):
the presumption of innocence. They will be able to get
some of the best defense lawyers in this country. But
this may be the tip of the iceberg. We'll be
back on nightside. I have one line at six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty and one at six one, seven, nine,
three one ten thirty. If you're a basketball fan, if
you're a sports fan, what do you say to your
(18:30):
kids about this? If you have kids who are seven,
eight years old, nine years old, ten years old, who
look upon look upon these athletes as heroes. This is
a devastating, devastating story. And the NBA has just signed
a seventy six billion dollar, not million billion dollar contract
(18:51):
with ESPN. Back on nightside phone calls right after the news.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
You're on night side with Dan Ray Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
As promised, We're going right to the phones. Let me
go to Pete in South Carolina. Pete, it's a huge
story up here. How are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Well, I'm I'm really blown away. Number one. Thanks for
having Dan Johnessy on. He's great.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I haven't It's a fun read.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Yeah. All I have to say is this, You and
I are the same age. I remember the glory days
of the Celtics, the Sixers, with doc La with Magic
and then later on in the eighties, Michael, and I
don't think any one of those guys would even think
(19:41):
of doing it. I think they all played the game
for the love of the game and not get interested in,
you know, all a little side action that went on.
Those guys. I think we're all class acts.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And well, I'm sure that all these guys made good money. Okay,
but I'm sure they did. Oh but but but certainly
and on a comparative basis, they made money that probably
was equivalent to what the best players in the league
back in the eighties, because the league back in the
eighties they were doing well, but they weren't doing as
well as they're doing now.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
And nobody Eh.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, and how do you I mean, as this stuff
is going to come out, this is going to be
devastating these these guys. If they're guilty again, they got
the presumption of this, They're going to go to jail.
There may be others involved.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I don't disagree with you. And as you said in
your your your your talk with Dan that you know
you are a lawyer, so the presumption of innocence is there.
But I got to believe that cash Betel and his
people really worked this thing to the bone before they
even announced it them.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I mean, uh, the thing was that here's what what
hit me, Pete was in the news conference, they were
very granular in terms of explaining how how these these
these deals went down. Uh, this is the assistant an
assistant FBI director whose name is Christopher either Raya or Raya,
(21:14):
and I want I want you to respond to this.
H just listen to the specifics here. Cut thirty six rob.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
Three of the name defendants are charged for their alleged
roles in both schemes. This alleged illegal gambling operation hustled
unwitting victims out of tens of millions of dollars and
created a financial pipeline for LaCOSA and Nostra to help
fund and facilitate their organized criminal activity. Victims were attracted
(21:47):
to play alongside well known professional athletes and coaches like
Chauncey Billups, only to be unknowingly deceived through rigged shuffling
machines fixing the odds in their favor. As alleged and
as you just heard from the US Attorney's office, this
alleged scheme retamock across the nation, exploiting the notoriety of
(22:11):
some and the wallets of many to fund the Italian
crime families here in New York.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Then you know they hit X rays.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean the money that they
spent to set these suckers up. I guess they call
these the people who were getting set up. This is
one more that again I think people should hear okay
real quickly. Last sound bite for a while cut thirty
(22:48):
four rob.
Speaker 9 (22:49):
Beginning as early as twenty nineteen, the defendants in this
case orchestrated a scheme to use wireless cheating technology to
run rigged poker games across the United States, including in
the Hampton's, Las Vegas, Miami, and Manhattan. The scheme targeted
(23:11):
victims known as quote fish, who were often warred to
participate in these rigged games by the chance to play
alongside former professional athletes who were known as quote face cards.
What the victims the fish didn't know is that everybody
(23:31):
else at the poker game, from the dealer to the players,
including the face cards, were in on.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
The scam.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Was unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
It is it is. And again, as I said, I've
been following basketball, I don't know since I was ten,
and I had a very good trend who just passed away.
He was a little All American from Fordham back in
the fifties and he knew every coach and so on.
Back in the eighties when we were both working in
New York City and we would go to this one
(24:04):
sports bar called Runyons and you could meet anybody and everybody.
But Dan, this is too hard for me to believe.
I just can't. I've got to get a hold of
my nephew, who is an absolute fan of the game.
He's what mid thirties I guess now, but he Kobe.
(24:28):
Kobe's another one. My son in law watched Kobe play
in high school because they're both from the same league
outside of Philly.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yep, Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
He said, Kobe was doing stuff with the basketball that
nobody could imagine back in high school. And I just
it's too hard for me to believe that. You know,
they they did this and had suckered all these people
in and you know they're you know, besides going to jail,
there could be some other type of uh get back.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, yeah, I mean depending upon this. This this story
is going to be with us for a while, Pete,
I gotta let you run because I got a bunch
of calls and I want to get everybody.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I'm going to listen to you till midnight tonight.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Thank you, Pete. I hear I hear the passion in
your voice. I hear the past. You got it, talk
to you. So let me go next to my friend Bill. Hey, Bill,
how are you tonight? I know who this is?
Speaker 10 (25:28):
Well, it's Bill and Bo Dan oh.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Both in the phone, Bill and Bow Winner.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
Bill and Bow. And we were hoping to talk to
our two favorite dans. But at least we got our
one favorite fad of yours. So it's great to hear
your voice. This is quite an amazing topic. We wanted
to say o to Dan Shaughnessy because in the nineteen eighties,
my brother and I we played the national anthem at
(25:54):
Celtic games. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I do remember the game. I do remember that, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (25:59):
Yes, and what a thrill that was. We became very
close friends, uh with Dan. He put us in his
articles many many times. I'll have to show you the
book on the History of the Celtics where he talks
about our performances. But this subject tonight is incredible. We
just got home from NI. We had a very very
(26:20):
busy night out there. The place was just jammed.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
That's where we had. We had our Brunchdale last April
with you guys.
Speaker 10 (26:27):
We had the best time ever.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, I'm sorry missed Dan. But I stay
up till midnight ordinarily, and I try not to abuse
the guests late.
Speaker 10 (26:38):
No, so listen, we Bill just say hello to Dan.
Will you plase sure?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
We got it right here? Hey Bill, Hey Dan.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
You know we were we were listening to the show
all the way home from they and thinking about you,
and we thought I would, you know, talk to both
Dan's but didn't.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, I hope if I'd known you were going to call,
I probably would have prevailed a pod day and to
stick around. But I wanted. I wanted to get his
expertise on this at his perspective. But I also never
want to abuse the friendship. I mean, for me staying
up till midnight, I do that five nights a week,
but most people actually have to get up in the
(27:21):
morning and be productive. Exactly.
Speaker 10 (27:24):
Well, we're going to let you go on to your
next call, but it is great to uh to talk
to you, take good care both.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Thank you so much and Bill as always, thank you
both very much. The Winnakers they the best orchestra that
I've ever heard here in New England. Thanks guys, I
appreciate it as always.
Speaker 10 (27:42):
Thanks to talk to you. Talk to you again soon
say at home.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Absolutely hopefully I'll see you. Okay, talk soon. Let me
keep rolling here. I'm going to get one more in
before the break. I think I can do that. Going
to go to Andrew in Plymouth. Andrew want to try
to get as many folks to weigh into this because
this is a sad story. It's one we got to
talk about. Go ahead, Andrew.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Sure for a time long time.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
WHOA well, think we'll get you around. We went a
bunch of first time callers this week. Go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
So let me get this. The Supreme Court in twenty
eighteen approved online bet gambling.
Speaker 10 (28:17):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Right. It gave the states, as I understand that I
have not read the decision recently, but it gave states
the already some states do, some states don't.
Speaker 10 (28:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think it's thirty six states do.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
And if you look at you know, the mafia and
the bookies all of a sudden, they were put out
of business pretty much, as at least a lot of
them were. So they automatically in twenty eighteen saw that
they were going to be losing millions of dollars coming
in to their coffers. Fair enough, even as Patel was saying,
(28:55):
in twenty nineteen, this is how far this goes back,
they started investigating this, so you can see where the
mafia all of a sudden, in my opinion, started to
see a way that they could start making their money back.
And unfortunately we have the scandal that we have, which
(29:15):
is just again, unlike everybody, I'm just blown away.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And again I want to emphasize that the defendants here,
even the mafios, the coasts of people enjoy the presumption
of innocence. But I watched that news conference this morning,
and it seemed to me that they they they laid
out a story that any jury is going to be
able to follow. Sometimes in these fraud cases, the stories
are complicated. This was pretty straightforward.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
And we see the betting that's been happening. I mean, again,
in my opinion, you know, I've always been a huge
baseball fan and all four sports, but when the when
the Otani from the Dodgers. Yep, that whole incident where
all of a sudden they left all the blame on
(30:02):
his interpreter.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
YEP.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
You really wonder did they really or were they covering
up because he was the number one face for baseball.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Well he still is in many respects, and particularly with
them going back to the World Series. But I can't believe,
I don't want to believe that that Otani was involved
in what the interpreter supposedly was involved in. And you
can see, I mean Otani had he has a contract
(30:32):
that will make him, you know, a very wealthy man.
The interpreter might have been looking at the situation in saying, gee,
I listen, I have access. I don't know, I don't know.
I want to focus on what's going on today, though.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Because exactly, exactly, even with these NBA players, regardless whether
they be twenty six million, they might have an addiction
just like drugs, alcohol, there's no.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
There's no suggestion of that they may have an addiction
of money. The other thing is that I assume if
they did make money, I don't think they declared it
on their taxes, so they probably will have some superseding
indictments here dealing with tax evasion, which the government looks.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
At very yeah, very cool.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
Let's be interesting to see all the rest of us
rolls off. But Dan, thank you very much. I'll let
you get on the other callers and have a great night.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, first of all, Andrew, I want to thank you
for being a first time caller and hope you'll continue
to listen and call it call this radio station. Okay,
thank you so much. Thanks, I appreciate it. Great call.
We got to take a break. We've got Michael and
Alex coming up. Six one seven, four ten thirty six
one seven ninety three one ten thirty. I truly want
(31:42):
to talk about this into the next hour. It's a
national story. I will be quite disappointed if people don't
don't have thoughts and opinions on this. It's horrific. Uh,
It's a story that calls into question. You know, professional sports,
which is big business in this country. People depend upon it,
not only the players obviously, but organizationally, there are people.
(32:04):
There are people who who work at these arenas. You know,
eighty one nights a year. In some cities they work
one hundred and fifty nights a year. Because you have
a hockey program as well as a basketball league program.
So this is this is really ugly, but let's talk
about it. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
(32:24):
six one seven, nine three ten thirty. I was stunned
by this. I suspect most of you were as well. Uh,
if you want to tell me the reason, I believe
the prop bets are a big part of it. But
Dan Shaughnessy made the great point that it was in
prop bets that probably put up the red flags. If
you're confused about that, we'll explain it. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Night Side with Dan Ray, I'MBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We're gonna keep rolling here, Gonna go next to Michael
in Attleborough. Michael, You're next to Knightside. Go ahead, Thank
you now, good sir, y, Yes, sir, I can hear you. Michael,
go right ahead, Robin Michaels. Let's clean Michael's lineup, rob
and let's we'll be back with him in just a moment.
(33:15):
Let me go next to Liz in East Boston. Hei, Liz,
welcome next on Nightside.
Speaker 11 (33:22):
Hi, Hi, Dan, I'm I'm what are you so shocked about?
Gambling is an awful thing and exports gambling should not
be legal.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Well, I'm shocked. What I'm shocked about is if you
if you listen to that news conference today, is that
one players would sacrifice their integrity. They make a lot
of money, but they're going to sacrifice their integrity and
expose themselves to being caught because they're functioning in you know,
in the public public specter. Here. I'm shocked at the
(33:56):
extent of this. I mean, these guys, these guys were
involved in a lot of activity, assuming that the allegations
are true, which we always have to say that as
a caveat that this is NBA players involved with organized
crime well cos and Nostra, if the allegations are true. Yeah,
I'm pretty shocked at that, because when you get in
(34:17):
bed with folks like that, sometimes you can end up
really being hurt, hurt much more off court than you
can be on court, if you get my drift.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
Well, I mean the bottom line is sports gambling should
be illegal. I think it's funny because your your radio stations,
you advertise your fan duel or what the other one.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
But now there's a there's a there's a bunch of these,
there's a bunch of these agencies. Look, there has always
been sports gambling, and one of the one of.
Speaker 12 (34:52):
The can I finished. I just want to finish my
point about that. Go ahead on the ad and then
you and then.
Speaker 11 (34:58):
You finish it with, oh, if you have a problem gambling,
call one eight hundred.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Are you know?
Speaker 13 (35:03):
Yeah, dial this number for your addiction. So you know,
we create a problem and then we have the solution.
You know, ready for these four people to get addicted
to gambling.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Well, okay, so let me respond. Would you mind if
I can respond to that. I know that you firmly
believe what you just said. The argument against that that
was made was that if they are basically rein gambling
through public companies, public organizations, that it would it would
(35:37):
take gambling away from organized crime underground uh, and that
it could be regulated. And as a matter of fact,
this was probably, as Dan Shaughnessy mentioned, exposed as a
problem by virtue of the fact that this was done
not with you know, organized crime, but with companies and businesses.
(36:00):
So you know, if you're opposed to sports gambling under
any circumstances, that's a legitimate position. But we've always had
sports gambling, whether it was with the groups that we
currently have the businesses or with organized crime for years.
Speaker 11 (36:13):
And years and years, so organized crime is still involved.
Speaker 12 (36:18):
So you know, it's just it's ridiculous to me. It's
very harmful to families.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
You know.
Speaker 12 (36:25):
I've been to the casino over here in Everett, and
it's just a very sad place to me.
Speaker 11 (36:29):
I mean, I can see people.
Speaker 12 (36:31):
That are there because they have a problem. It's not
a complaint. Same thing like with Suffolk down back in
the day. You know, I'd go there for fun, but
it was never fun because you can see some people really.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Have and I and I understand your position, and I
respect your position. To be very honest with you, I
don't go to casinos. I'm not a gambler, but I
enjoy watching athletic events. At the same time. Once again,
the purity of sport certainly has been called into question here,
(37:05):
and I think it's sad. I think it's sad for kids.
I think it's sad for the industry. For the industry,
but hey, it is what it is. And I'm glad
that you called, but I'm running out of time here,
so I got to let you go. Feel free to
call any night. Your point of view is always going
to be respected. Your your respectful caller. I just wanted
to give you the other side of the argument. That's all.
(37:29):
Have a great night. Thank you, You're welcome. Okay, we
will get back to Michael. I don't know. Hopefully his
line is cleaned up. I'm going to ask him to
hold through the news. He'll be first up on the
other side. We have a couple of other callers, but
I got some open lines. I want to know your
reaction to this. Six one seven four ten thirty six
one seven nine ten thirty. My name is Dan Ray.
(37:51):
This is Nightside. I will remind those of you who
may not be aware of it. I always do a
post well most nights, I do a postgame show on
night Side with Dan. So if you are going to
stick with us through the midnight hour, you're invited to
join me immediately after the show any night Nightside with
Dan Ray on Facebook and I talk about the show,
(38:11):
talk about the callers, and talk about how I thought
it all went. In the meantime, feel free to light
up the lines here. I want to get your reaction.
I think this is a huge story. It may be
even bigger than we realize. Is which I'm not hoping for,
but it could even get bigger back on nightside after
this
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Boston's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, thanks to Scott Brown for spending an hour with
us and those of you who had a chance to call.
I mean, the first guy who called, Dave from Wyoming,
he is he's one of these guys. I don't know
what century he's living in, but he represents a constituency
of probably about four or five people. And when I
(00:27):
saw the call from come in from Wyoming and I asked,
I kind of thought it was him, and I thought
he had a couple of questions, which were dumb questions,
but Scott Brown handled the questions very well. But when
he starts talking about you know, revolution, I mean, this
is there's some dangerous people on the far right and
the far left, and if I have my way, he
(00:48):
will not make another appearance on this program. Whatever state
he calls from, I think I'm going to have get
his number and make sure that. I mean, it's a
waste of time you're talking to somebody like that, taking
up very valuable time. Anyway, apologize for that. But the
other callers all were interesting callers, and I thought that
(01:08):
they made some interesting points. Well, we woke up this morning,
those of you who were around and listen to a
news conference in New York which was stunning, a stunning
news conference of gambling and betting and fraud. I mean,
those are the allegations now. Whenever we cover an event
(01:29):
like this, the implications are breathtaking. Every major league sport
has at different times been touched by some form of scandal.
But I don't think there's a bigger scandal than we
have than we have dealt with. And I am delighted
(01:50):
to be joined by Dan Shaughnessy from the Boston Globe. Dan,
of course, who covered the Boston Celtics for many years
as a beat you know he's a columnist now wrote
an incredible book about the Celtics in the nineteen eighties
when basketball was really peaking in this country. Dan Shaughnessy, welcome,
(02:12):
Thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well thanks for having me Dan.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know, I was stunned at the breath, the scope,
and the I mean, you have former NBA players who
allegedly were involved with mafioso gangs. And not only were
they involved in not point shaving, but they have these
bets where you can bet on someone you know is
(02:37):
going to only play so many minutes or score so
many points. You've covered sports a long time. Where would
you put, assuming that there's truth to this, where would
you put this scandal in that galaxy of sports scandals,
whether it's the Black Sox of nineteen nineteen, Pete Rose,
or Paul Horning and Alex Harrison and the NFL back
(03:02):
in the day, Boston College, I know, had a basketball
scandal many years ago, back in the late sixties. This
is this is as big as I can imagine if
this was true. And again, assuming these folks have presumption
of innocence, well.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, I think in our lifetime this is there, and
the Rose thing was very big in our lifetime. But
you know this, in American sports, it starts and ends
with the Black Sox scandal nineteen ninety the White Sox,
you know, taking money to throw the World Series. You
got to remember how big that event was, you know,
one hundred and six years ago. It was the only
event that mattered in the country in terms of sports.
(03:38):
And then they got eight guys who you know, admitted
taking payments, and it was it was short money compared
to now. But that led to the creation of the
Commission's Office in Major League baseball can of Mountainlands brought
into clean up the sport, and that's why the rules
have been so strong for one hundred and six years,
and the players are all well aware of this. But
(03:58):
as you and I both know, in the last you know,
a couple of decades, the legalized betting has crept its
way in and the leagues have partnered with them DraftKings, FanDuel,
et cetera. And it's it's amusing to watch these pieces
on ESPN and whatnot today where the gambling crawls are
underneath the content that you're seeing talking about the scandal,
(04:19):
and it's like Claude Rains and Casablanca, you know, shocked,
shocked by the gambling, and here are your winnings, captain,
you know so, but yeah, this is up there. If
this stuff turns out to be true, and of course,
having a coach and uh, you know, players and information
and then the mafia component of it is certainly juicy
as well. So we'll see how it shakes up. But
it looks bad for these guys, it does.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And the concern that you have is that if if
if these guys start to if there are others involved,
and I'm not suggesting there are. But if all of
a sudden the federal prosecutors think they're a bigger fish
in the pond than even the fish that they've pulled
out of this pond. You have people who cut deals
and who you have no idea where this can go.
(05:03):
And of course this is on the heels the NBA
has just has has signed this this new well, I
guess this is about a year ago, a seventy six
billion dollar deal. You know, for media coverage. How much
how much does do you think this hurts the league
which is has really become I think even more of
(05:26):
an international league following than even NFL Football, which you're
doing their best to play games in Ireland and England
and Germany and Argentina and Mexico. This is what what
do you think the long term impact is or does
the NBA just put their head down and say this
was an anomaly.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And I tend to survive these things again, the baseball
thing one hundred and six years ago was the closest
to really threatening out of the foundation of the sport
we've had. You know, the NBA had a thing with
one of the officials, Tim Donoghan twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Jail time, did he not?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
And you've got the individuals in this thing, Rose here
and Ben Phillips is in the Hall of Fame who've
made it north of one hundred million dollars in their careers.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
And you know, like you say.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Why are they in these things? You know, well, easy money,
you know, the temptation of easy, easy money and stuff.
Now on the level, it's always going to be there,
and it's only a matter of time. It's been clear.
This has always been present, but in the last twenty
years with the partnerships with the legalized gambling outlets, and
it's just impossible to think that you're going to have
all your players, you know, heed the warnings that they
(06:34):
cannot get involved, and you're seeing this and it doesn't
surprise me. It'll be they'll be moore, it'll be worse,
and we'll be having the same conversation a year from now,
five years from now.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Okay, you know this stuff better than I do. But
it seems to me that what at the core of
the betting aspect there. But we'll put aside the polker
the gambling access, yeah, is what they call the prop bets,
meaning I'm going to bet that this player is not
going to get five assistants game, or he's not going
to play any more than twenty minutes. Those sorts of
individual bets. Does that make it more likely that a
(07:07):
player can It's it's it's easier to get one player
to say, yeah, I'm coming up with a sprained ankle
later tonight, or I'm not going to play much tonight.
It seems to me that they probably need to eliminate
the prop bets.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, that would be one thing.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
And you know, they're they they make.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It easier to discover this behavior going on because when
you see a lot of action on one guy who's
not going to play more than ten minutes, So why
is there so much action on that particular thing tonight,
So that that that's a flag and that gets attention.
That's how some of this stuff gets discovered. And so
the legalized gamblers will tell you, well, our our our
(07:46):
existence helps them weed out the bad guys, you know,
So that's that that'll be part of the defense of this.
But but yeah, I mean, you're not gonna you're not
going to be able to stop it, and uh, and
the leagues have decided there's so much money in this.
They want a piece of it, and they're and they're
barnering with the league last gamblers.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So you're saying, the genies out of the bottle.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Oh, that's absolutely that this ship has sailed. It's like
trying to defend you know, college sports as amateur sports anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's just over. Wow. Dan, I always want you to
have the opportunity to talk about your experience with the Celtics,
which you have memorialized in a great book about your
time covering the Celtics. It was probably the best years
of pro basketball, the Bird years, and all the great
(08:33):
players that the Celtics had at the time, and the
great rivalries that existed at the time, built on the
great rivalries of the sixties and seventies, it really peaked,
you know, with what you were covering in the eighties.
Just reference if you would the book, because frankly, a
lot of people who still love basketball and they love it.
(08:56):
When you could, you know, actually have access to the players,
you know, Larry Bird would be around town or whatever,
it was a different time. It was a different era.
I hate to say it, but we're talking thirty five
years or oh sure, okay, but it's the time that's
in the lives of people, and with the holidays coming up,
there's a I think that this book should be a
(09:20):
gift for some of people of my age and maybe
even younger who want to learn about basketball. When basketball
was really king of the world here and king of
the world in Boston at the.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Times called wish it lasted forever in life with the
Larry Bird Celtics that was a pandemic still available on Amazon.
But but yeah, it goes back to that time in
the eighties when really the NBA got to the started
its path to being a global sport like it is
today and why it's got so much sway over young
people and they really you know, it's a social media sport.
(09:53):
Young people like it. It's a past active game, and
you've got players from all over the world in the
game now. But that started in the eighties and as
you say, in that time covering the team for the Celtics,
they were a very colorful team and we got to
be with them all the time. We were just forced
to be together, like when you're in college or the
service with somebody who're just with them all the time.
So yeah, we really were able to tell the fans,
the readers, what the players were like back then because
(10:14):
of the unusual access that we had then. That's not
coming back. So that's what that book was about. I
appreciate you bringing it up. And it did start the
NBA with David Stern, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson
on the path to the popularity that it enjoys today,
and I think we'll continue to enjoy. It's just going
to be, you know, you're always going to have this
this this possibility of tainted, tainted games, you know, and
(10:38):
just you have to sort of suspend your reality a
little bit to buy into it one hundred percent after
when these sort of stories break.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The beauty of your book. And again, I'm sure a
lot of my audience has read it, but for those
who haven't read it, it was a time in Boston
when the Red Sox were still floundering. They had some
good players, but they they weren't going to eighty six
World Series was about as close as and as it got.
The Bruins were the Bobby Or era had ended, and
(11:09):
they had good players, but they they would be lose.
They'd lose every couple of years to the Edmonton Oils.
The Patriots were just be well, they had been around
a long time. But the Celtics with the tradition of
the fifties and the sixties and into the seventies and eighties,
and it was just a great time. And the access
(11:30):
that you had and that you write about people can
only dream about today. Not only could the fans only
dream about it, but the sports writers can only dream
about it. That's the beauty of your book. In my
opinion on the Celtics, it's just a fabulous read.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And those are great years. And like you say, I
don't know, you don't get that back. And I appreciated having,
you know, the Prillars to cover that team at that
time and to do it in a time when we
were so so forced to be together with them and
really understand what was what made their buddy tick and
harder to do today and and you're going to find
out people are going to be trying to find out
(12:04):
what makes Terry Roseer tick and all this stuff going
on with why would this happen? But the possibility is
there when you make a pitch reezy money and you know,
kind of rig the system, and that's what the peerce
have gone on here.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. Look, I so appreciate you taking the time with
us tonight, and we'll uh well, we'll follow on with
a conversation here with folks. But thanks, thanks Dan for
being available tonight. And it's not a it's not a
fun topic to uh to discuss, that's for sure. It
has really put a horrific mark on the game that
(12:37):
you love and the game that so many people love.
And it'll be interesting to hear the comments from some
of the players of the era that you covered, you know,
the the Bill Bradley's and the and the McHale's and
the Birds and the Robert Parishes, uh and the Danny Ainge.
It will be interested to see what they have to
(12:58):
say because they made these they made good money, but
it wasn't anywhere near the money a lot of these
guys have made and yet oh no. Yeah, so it'll
be interesting. Thanks so much, my friend. We will talk soon.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Okay, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Night Dan, Thank you soon.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
All right, we come back. I'm going to open up
the conversation. I'm also going to play a little bit
from the news conference today so that all of you
can catch up on it. But this is a sad
day for professional basketball. And again I listened to the
news conference. I'm a lawyer. The presumption of innocence for
means and it was mentioned at the news conference, but
(13:35):
it seemed to me like it was a very professional job.
I guess over thirty people were arrested around the country today, again,
including three players who in won a Hall of Fame
member Chauncey Phillips, who either were drafted by the Celtics
or played for the Celtics. And it's not a good
story for professional sports. It's not a good story for basketball,
(13:58):
but we will talk about it if you'd like to
weigh in on it. Does it change your view of
pro sports or does it change your view of pro basketball?
Or do you just assume what was going on anyway?
Six one seven two thirty six one seven. We'll get
comments from today, and you've heard from Dan Shaughnessy. I
want to hear what you have to say as well.
(14:18):
Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you
BEAZ Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Okay, we have some calls lined up, Pete, Bill, and Andrew.
I'm going to get to you guys right after the
news So you're gonna you guys will be the first
ones up. But I just want to play one cut
today from This is FBI Director Cash Patel talking about this.
This this indictment, arrest people arrested. This is cut thirty
(14:49):
seven Rong, the FBI director.
Speaker 7 (14:51):
Today, we're here in New York to announce a historic
arrests across a wide, sweeping criminal enterprise that envelops both
the NBA and lacos. The men and women up here
standing with me represent a small portion of the leadership
team that brought profound justice in an era that needed
it more than any I'll just highlight some of the
(15:12):
some of the details in the case and the FBI work,
and then you'll hear from the others. But as you
now know, individuals such as Chauncey Billups, Damon Jones, and
Terry Rozier were taking into custody today former current NBA
players and coaches. What you don't know is that this
is an illegal gambling operation and sports rigging operation that
(15:33):
spanned the course of years. The FBI led a coordinative
takedown across eleven states to arrest over thirty individuals today
responsible for this case, which is very much ongoing.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That is the breadth of the story today. And here
is the amount of money that is involved. One last
sound bite, and then we're going to go to the news.
We're going to get right to callers. Cut thirty nine, Rob.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
You hear a lot about our work of defending the
homeland and crushing violent crime. Well, this work is also
representative of a colossal portion of the FBI's mandate to
keep America safe and to keep our entertainment industry fair
and secure. The men and women that are standing up
here today worked tireless hours, days, months, and years, and
the fraud is mind boggling. It's not hundreds of dollars,
(16:22):
it's not thousands of dollars. It's not tens of thousands
of dollars. It's not even millions of dollars. We're talking
about tens of millions of dollars in fraud and theft
and robbery across a multi year investigation. And we could
not have done it without our inneragency partners that are
before us today.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And this.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Is a body blow to the NBA. All of us
here in Boston loved the Celtics. We love basketball, but
this is a stain on professional basketball. Chauncey Phillips just
in acted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. The coach,
(17:04):
I'm not sure if he's still the coach of the
Portland Trailblazers. I suspect he will soon be the ex
coach Terry Rosier who spent four years here in Boston.
Phillips who was who was drafted Pillips, I should say,
drafted by the Celtics. It's it's it's just it's an
extraor I mean it dwarfs. As far as in concerned,
(17:25):
Pete Rose was a manager who apparently admitted that he
bet on his own team. That was unacceptable. This is
this is crime. These high stake poker players when they
talk about they literally had their pockets picked. They will
(17:46):
they were lambs being led to slaughter. We're going to
take a break. I want to hear from as many
of you in the next hour and a half. I
want to talk about this until midnight. This is the
story of the day. Uh, it is a huge story. Again,
the men who are indicted today, even the people in
the carstinostra u the Costinostra, they deserve and they enjoy
(18:09):
the presumption of innocence. They will be able to get
some of the best defense lawyers in this country. But
this may be the tip of the iceberg. We'll be
back on nightside. I have one line at six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty and one at six one, seven, nine,
three one ten thirty. If you're a basketball fan, if
you're a sports fan, what do you say to your
(18:30):
kids about this? If you have kids who are seven,
eight years old, nine years old, ten years old, who
look upon look upon these athletes as heroes. This is
a devastating, devastating story. And the NBA has just signed
a seventy six billion dollar, not million billion dollar contract
(18:51):
with ESPN. Back on nightside phone calls right after the news.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
You're on night side with Dan Ray Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
As promised, We're going right to the phones. Let me
go to Pete in South Carolina. Pete, it's a huge
story up here. How are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Well, I'm I'm really blown away. Number one. Thanks for
having Dan Johnessy on. He's great.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I haven't It's a fun read.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Yeah. All I have to say is this, You and
I are the same age. I remember the glory days
of the Celtics, the Sixers, with doc La with Magic
and then later on in the eighties, Michael, and I
don't think any one of those guys would even think
(19:41):
of doing it. I think they all played the game
for the love of the game and not get interested in,
you know, all a little side action that went on.
Those guys. I think we're all class acts.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And well, I'm sure that all these guys made good money. Okay,
but I'm sure they did. Oh but but but certainly
and on a comparative basis, they made money that probably
was equivalent to what the best players in the league
back in the eighties, because the league back in the
eighties they were doing well, but they weren't doing as
well as they're doing now.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
And nobody Eh.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, and how do you I mean, as this stuff
is going to come out, this is going to be
devastating these these guys. If they're guilty again, they got
the presumption of this, They're going to go to jail.
There may be others involved.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I don't disagree with you. And as you said in
your your your your talk with Dan that you know
you are a lawyer, so the presumption of innocence is there.
But I got to believe that cash Betel and his
people really worked this thing to the bone before they
even announced it them.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I mean, uh, the thing was that here's what what
hit me, Pete was in the news conference, they were
very granular in terms of explaining how how these these
these deals went down. Uh, this is the assistant an
assistant FBI director whose name is Christopher either Raya or Raya,
(21:14):
and I want I want you to respond to this.
H just listen to the specifics here. Cut thirty six rob.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
Three of the name defendants are charged for their alleged
roles in both schemes. This alleged illegal gambling operation hustled
unwitting victims out of tens of millions of dollars and
created a financial pipeline for LaCOSA and Nostra to help
fund and facilitate their organized criminal activity. Victims were attracted
(21:47):
to play alongside well known professional athletes and coaches like
Chauncey Billups, only to be unknowingly deceived through rigged shuffling
machines fixing the odds in their favor. As alleged and
as you just heard from the US Attorney's office, this
alleged scheme retamock across the nation, exploiting the notoriety of
(22:11):
some and the wallets of many to fund the Italian
crime families here in New York.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Then you know they hit X rays.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean the money that they
spent to set these suckers up. I guess they call
these the people who were getting set up. This is
one more that again I think people should hear okay
real quickly. Last sound bite for a while cut thirty
(22:48):
four rob.
Speaker 9 (22:49):
Beginning as early as twenty nineteen, the defendants in this
case orchestrated a scheme to use wireless cheating technology to
run rigged poker games across the United States, including in
the Hampton's, Las Vegas, Miami, and Manhattan. The scheme targeted
(23:11):
victims known as quote fish, who were often warred to
participate in these rigged games by the chance to play
alongside former professional athletes who were known as quote face cards.
What the victims the fish didn't know is that everybody
(23:31):
else at the poker game, from the dealer to the players,
including the face cards, were in on.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
The scam.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Was unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
It is it is. And again, as I said, I've
been following basketball, I don't know since I was ten,
and I had a very good trend who just passed away.
He was a little All American from Fordham back in
the fifties and he knew every coach and so on.
Back in the eighties when we were both working in
New York City and we would go to this one
(24:04):
sports bar called Runyons and you could meet anybody and everybody.
But Dan, this is too hard for me to believe.
I just can't. I've got to get a hold of
my nephew, who is an absolute fan of the game.
He's what mid thirties I guess now, but he Kobe.
(24:28):
Kobe's another one. My son in law watched Kobe play
in high school because they're both from the same league
outside of Philly.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yep, Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
He said, Kobe was doing stuff with the basketball that
nobody could imagine back in high school. And I just
it's too hard for me to believe that. You know,
they they did this and had suckered all these people
in and you know they're you know, besides going to jail,
there could be some other type of uh get back.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, yeah, I mean depending upon this. This this story
is going to be with us for a while, Pete,
I gotta let you run because I got a bunch
of calls and I want to get everybody.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I'm going to listen to you till midnight tonight.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Thank you, Pete. I hear I hear the passion in
your voice. I hear the past. You got it, talk
to you. So let me go next to my friend Bill. Hey, Bill,
how are you tonight? I know who this is?
Speaker 10 (25:28):
Well, it's Bill and Bo Dan oh.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Both in the phone, Bill and Bow Winner.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
Bill and Bow. And we were hoping to talk to
our two favorite dans. But at least we got our
one favorite fad of yours. So it's great to hear
your voice. This is quite an amazing topic. We wanted
to say o to Dan Shaughnessy because in the nineteen eighties,
my brother and I we played the national anthem at
(25:54):
Celtic games. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I do remember the game. I do remember that, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (25:59):
Yes, and what a thrill that was. We became very
close friends, uh with Dan. He put us in his
articles many many times. I'll have to show you the
book on the History of the Celtics where he talks
about our performances. But this subject tonight is incredible. We
just got home from NI. We had a very very
(26:20):
busy night out there. The place was just jammed.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
That's where we had. We had our Brunchdale last April
with you guys.
Speaker 10 (26:27):
We had the best time ever.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, I'm sorry missed Dan. But I stay
up till midnight ordinarily, and I try not to abuse
the guests late.
Speaker 10 (26:38):
No, so listen, we Bill just say hello to Dan.
Will you plase sure?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
We got it right here? Hey Bill, Hey Dan.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
You know we were we were listening to the show
all the way home from they and thinking about you,
and we thought I would, you know, talk to both
Dan's but didn't.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, I hope if I'd known you were going to call,
I probably would have prevailed a pod day and to
stick around. But I wanted. I wanted to get his
expertise on this at his perspective. But I also never
want to abuse the friendship. I mean, for me staying
up till midnight, I do that five nights a week,
but most people actually have to get up in the
(27:21):
morning and be productive. Exactly.
Speaker 10 (27:24):
Well, we're going to let you go on to your
next call, but it is great to uh to talk
to you, take good care both.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Thank you so much and Bill as always, thank you
both very much. The Winnakers they the best orchestra that
I've ever heard here in New England. Thanks guys, I
appreciate it as always.
Speaker 10 (27:42):
Thanks to talk to you. Talk to you again soon
say at home.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Absolutely hopefully I'll see you. Okay, talk soon. Let me
keep rolling here. I'm going to get one more in
before the break. I think I can do that. Going
to go to Andrew in Plymouth. Andrew want to try
to get as many folks to weigh into this because
this is a sad story. It's one we got to
talk about. Go ahead, Andrew.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Sure for a time long time.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
WHOA well, think we'll get you around. We went a
bunch of first time callers this week. Go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
So let me get this. The Supreme Court in twenty
eighteen approved online bet gambling.
Speaker 10 (28:17):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Right. It gave the states, as I understand that I
have not read the decision recently, but it gave states
the already some states do, some states don't.
Speaker 10 (28:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think it's thirty six states do.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
And if you look at you know, the mafia and
the bookies all of a sudden, they were put out
of business pretty much, as at least a lot of
them were. So they automatically in twenty eighteen saw that
they were going to be losing millions of dollars coming
in to their coffers. Fair enough, even as Patel was saying,
(28:55):
in twenty nineteen, this is how far this goes back,
they started investigating this, so you can see where the
mafia all of a sudden, in my opinion, started to
see a way that they could start making their money back.
And unfortunately we have the scandal that we have, which
(29:15):
is just again, unlike everybody, I'm just blown away.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And again I want to emphasize that the defendants here,
even the mafios, the coasts of people enjoy the presumption
of innocence. But I watched that news conference this morning,
and it seemed to me that they they they laid
out a story that any jury is going to be
able to follow. Sometimes in these fraud cases, the stories
are complicated. This was pretty straightforward.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
And we see the betting that's been happening. I mean, again,
in my opinion, you know, I've always been a huge
baseball fan and all four sports, but when the when
the Otani from the Dodgers. Yep, that whole incident where
all of a sudden they left all the blame on
(30:02):
his interpreter.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
YEP.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
You really wonder did they really or were they covering
up because he was the number one face for baseball.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Well he still is in many respects, and particularly with
them going back to the World Series. But I can't believe,
I don't want to believe that that Otani was involved
in what the interpreter supposedly was involved in. And you
can see, I mean Otani had he has a contract
(30:32):
that will make him, you know, a very wealthy man.
The interpreter might have been looking at the situation in saying, gee,
I listen, I have access. I don't know, I don't know.
I want to focus on what's going on today, though.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Because exactly, exactly, even with these NBA players, regardless whether
they be twenty six million, they might have an addiction
just like drugs, alcohol, there's no.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
There's no suggestion of that they may have an addiction
of money. The other thing is that I assume if
they did make money, I don't think they declared it
on their taxes, so they probably will have some superseding
indictments here dealing with tax evasion, which the government looks.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
At very yeah, very cool.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
Let's be interesting to see all the rest of us
rolls off. But Dan, thank you very much. I'll let
you get on the other callers and have a great night.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, first of all, Andrew, I want to thank you
for being a first time caller and hope you'll continue
to listen and call it call this radio station. Okay,
thank you so much. Thanks, I appreciate it. Great call.
We got to take a break. We've got Michael and
Alex coming up. Six one seven, four ten thirty six
one seven ninety three one ten thirty. I truly want
(31:42):
to talk about this into the next hour. It's a
national story. I will be quite disappointed if people don't
don't have thoughts and opinions on this. It's horrific. Uh,
It's a story that calls into question. You know, professional sports,
which is big business in this country. People depend upon it,
not only the players obviously, but organizationally, there are people.
(32:04):
There are people who who work at these arenas. You know,
eighty one nights a year. In some cities they work
one hundred and fifty nights a year. Because you have
a hockey program as well as a basketball league program.
So this is this is really ugly, but let's talk
about it. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
(32:24):
six one seven, nine three ten thirty. I was stunned
by this. I suspect most of you were as well. Uh,
if you want to tell me the reason, I believe
the prop bets are a big part of it. But
Dan Shaughnessy made the great point that it was in
prop bets that probably put up the red flags. If
you're confused about that, we'll explain it. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Night Side with Dan Ray, I'MBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We're gonna keep rolling here, Gonna go next to Michael
in Attleborough. Michael, You're next to Knightside. Go ahead, Thank
you now, good sir, y, Yes, sir, I can hear you. Michael,
go right ahead, Robin Michaels. Let's clean Michael's lineup, rob
and let's we'll be back with him in just a moment.
(33:15):
Let me go next to Liz in East Boston. Hei, Liz,
welcome next on Nightside.
Speaker 11 (33:22):
Hi, Hi, Dan, I'm I'm what are you so shocked about?
Gambling is an awful thing and exports gambling should not
be legal.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Well, I'm shocked. What I'm shocked about is if you
if you listen to that news conference today, is that
one players would sacrifice their integrity. They make a lot
of money, but they're going to sacrifice their integrity and
expose themselves to being caught because they're functioning in you know,
in the public public specter. Here. I'm shocked at the
(33:56):
extent of this. I mean, these guys, these guys were
involved in a lot of activity, assuming that the allegations
are true, which we always have to say that as
a caveat that this is NBA players involved with organized
crime well cos and Nostra, if the allegations are true. Yeah,
I'm pretty shocked at that, because when you get in
(34:17):
bed with folks like that, sometimes you can end up
really being hurt, hurt much more off court than you
can be on court, if you get my drift.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
Well, I mean the bottom line is sports gambling should
be illegal. I think it's funny because your your radio stations,
you advertise your fan duel or what the other one.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
But now there's a there's a there's a bunch of these,
there's a bunch of these agencies. Look, there has always
been sports gambling, and one of the one of.
Speaker 12 (34:52):
The can I finished. I just want to finish my
point about that. Go ahead on the ad and then
you and then.
Speaker 11 (34:58):
You finish it with, oh, if you have a problem gambling,
call one eight hundred.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Are you know?
Speaker 13 (35:03):
Yeah, dial this number for your addiction. So you know,
we create a problem and then we have the solution.
You know, ready for these four people to get addicted
to gambling.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Well, okay, so let me respond. Would you mind if
I can respond to that. I know that you firmly
believe what you just said. The argument against that that
was made was that if they are basically rein gambling
through public companies, public organizations, that it would it would
(35:37):
take gambling away from organized crime underground uh, and that
it could be regulated. And as a matter of fact,
this was probably, as Dan Shaughnessy mentioned, exposed as a
problem by virtue of the fact that this was done
not with you know, organized crime, but with companies and businesses.
(36:00):
So you know, if you're opposed to sports gambling under
any circumstances, that's a legitimate position. But we've always had
sports gambling, whether it was with the groups that we
currently have the businesses or with organized crime for years.
Speaker 11 (36:13):
And years and years, so organized crime is still involved.
Speaker 12 (36:18):
So you know, it's just it's ridiculous to me. It's
very harmful to families.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
You know.
Speaker 12 (36:25):
I've been to the casino over here in Everett, and
it's just a very sad place to me.
Speaker 11 (36:29):
I mean, I can see people.
Speaker 12 (36:31):
That are there because they have a problem. It's not
a complaint. Same thing like with Suffolk down back in
the day. You know, I'd go there for fun, but
it was never fun because you can see some people really.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Have and I and I understand your position, and I
respect your position. To be very honest with you, I
don't go to casinos. I'm not a gambler, but I
enjoy watching athletic events. At the same time. Once again,
the purity of sport certainly has been called into question here,
(37:05):
and I think it's sad. I think it's sad for kids.
I think it's sad for the industry. For the industry,
but hey, it is what it is. And I'm glad
that you called, but I'm running out of time here,
so I got to let you go. Feel free to
call any night. Your point of view is always going
to be respected. Your your respectful caller. I just wanted
to give you the other side of the argument. That's all.
(37:29):
Have a great night. Thank you, You're welcome. Okay, we
will get back to Michael. I don't know. Hopefully his
line is cleaned up. I'm going to ask him to
hold through the news. He'll be first up on the
other side. We have a couple of other callers, but
I got some open lines. I want to know your
reaction to this. Six one seven four ten thirty six
one seven nine ten thirty. My name is Dan Ray.
(37:51):
This is Nightside. I will remind those of you who
may not be aware of it. I always do a
post well most nights, I do a postgame show on
night Side with Dan. So if you are going to
stick with us through the midnight hour, you're invited to
join me immediately after the show any night Nightside with
Dan Ray on Facebook and I talk about the show,
(38:11):
talk about the callers, and talk about how I thought
it all went. In the meantime, feel free to light
up the lines here. I want to get your reaction.
I think this is a huge story. It may be
even bigger than we realize. Is which I'm not hoping for,
but it could even get bigger back on nightside after
this
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