December 29, 2025 • 39 mins
Bradley Jay Fills In On NightSide with Dan Rea:
I’m sure you’ve heard some family stories over and over again, especially during the holidays. Have you ever wanted to research those stories to find out if they’re even true? Learn how to uncover lost histories and discover hidden stories in your family tree with David Allen Lambert, Chief Genealogist for American Ancestors.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thanks Dan Watkins, rather Jay and for Dan tonight. And
I'm talking to you all out there in terms of
family history family folklore. A lot of families have a
story one of your ancestors was a pirate or a
Mayflower person, or on the Constitution, or ran a butcher
(00:30):
shop in Harvard Square. Whatever, there's some family story that
gets passed down. And two things I would like you
to a share that story with us, with the community here,
the Beezy community. And b I'm going to talk to
a genealogist. The genealogist not just a genealogist. We have
(00:52):
as a guest here in studio is David Allan Lambert.
He's the chief genealogist for the brew Family Learning Center.
And also you have other gigs that you do. Why
don't you tell us about those?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, Brutlet Family Learning Center is with American Ancestors, which
is one hundred and eighty years old. I'm also the
state historian for the Sons of the American Revolution.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So it's a little uh.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Have to talk about around the corner. You have to
talk about that a bunch and so I guess I
would start.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I have a little bit of a family story to
try to prime the pump, and I want you to
tell your story. And it doesn't have to be some
mayflowery story. It can be. I think my grandfather came
across came from Ireland in eighteen ninety four. I'd really
like to you know where, no where from Ireland it was,
so maybe I can go visit anything genealogical. This is
(01:49):
your chance for kind of a freebie, to get some
tips on how to track that down. Or maybe you
have no idea of any luminaries or bad people in
your family. Maybe you want to find out. We'll also
find out about the companies that do it and what
those are like, and maybe how DNA plays plays into
(02:09):
this or not. I have a bunch of questions, but
I guess I'll start out with a story. Sure of
my family. For the first one of us Jays came
to the Dover area in Gover, New Hampshire area in
about sixteen forty and they fished in the Oyster River area,
(02:34):
and I think he was killed in an altercation with
Native Americans over territorial rights. But his son built a
garrison and I went to see it. The two falls ago.
I went up there, somebody from the Durham Area Historical Society.
I met her at the train with my brothers and
we all went and the story of this. There was
(02:58):
a garrison and there were about eighteen men I guess
associated with the garrison and families, and the Native Americans
noticed that all eighteen or all eighteen men were out
in the field, and so they attacked. They attacked them
in then they went back to the garrison and killed
(03:21):
most of those people. If there were two boys who
fought them off for a while and then finally they
succumbed and the woman, and I don't know if it
was if it was the lieutenant Lieutenant James's wife was
taken hostage for a year and released a year later.
(03:42):
And it's a detailed account of it. I guess it
was a big deal at the town. So there's a
detailed a count by somebody Mather, and I don't think
it was Cotton, or it may have been.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He actually did a lot with the part Salem Witchcruft trails,
because I think this happened in like seventeen oh four.
Because my William Pittman from the same place was killed
river at the same time sixteen or sixteen eighty nine
eighty nine case of the first the first attack when
that happened.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And and that is quite interesting. And I did my research.
I found the written and the written what do have you?
What do you call it? His last rolling testament or
the account of the event? No, like the family line
of the genealogy, the genial there you go. Okay, somebody
(04:32):
somebody begat somebody and and got it right up to
my actual grandfather. So I knew it was legit. And
the I'm going to leave it alone because I like that.
I like that tale, and I don't don't want to
learn any more that might make it false. But it
is really interesting and it is interesting to read accounts
(04:52):
if there are any, about the way people fought. And
it's interesting in the account by Mather how they spoke
about the Native Americans. They used all kinds of less
than less than nice adjectives, and I won't say what
they were, but it was a different time. And so
(05:14):
if anybody else has a you know, a story that
they'd like to get tips on how to verify or debunk,
or if you'd just like to find out more about
your family. Maybe you know nothing. A lot of people
do the genetic swab thing, but what you do is
(05:35):
kind of cooler. I think, well we do. What are
the difference?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I mean, the scientific approach with DNA allows you to
basically you know the paternity of your ancestors, so you
could like find out if your last name is correct.
I mean, I've had plenty of people think that they
have a mayfil hour line only to find out their
last name is McGillicuddy. So you know, Saint Patrick's Day
becomes more important than Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But other way, those people are sad. They are they
are I wish they kept their money in their pocket.
They just stuck with their myth.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And I mean, so we do the research as well.
My colleague Melanie macomb is, our genetic genealogist, has a
lot of consultations with people that get DNA results. But
it could be there trying to find their dad where
they're trying to find you. Why do all of a
sudden I have all these matches. So we don't do
DNA testing, but we do the analysis of it and
the other thing that we do on American ancestors for
(06:27):
one hundred and eighty years is we welcome people in.
I mean, in fact, we're open, like I mentioned, until
March for free. Just give a donation if you like.
In ninety seven Newbery, so you can come in, if
you're in the Boston American Ancestors, American ancestor what's in
there when you go in there? We have a research
center that has over a quarter of a million books,
twenty eight million manuscripts, and besides our new Family Heritage Experience,
(06:51):
which is like a virtual, interactive, hands on experience to
learn about genealogy and cultures, which is what we expanded.
Because we used to be one building, we built an addition,
so we're now at ninety seven Newbery and expand into
almost three properties right on Newberry Street near the.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Intersection of Clarendon. One thing I noticed, it's interesting is
how little people traveled until maybe nineteen fifty, so that
families are clustered around a pretty close area. For example,
the sixteen forty guy in my family came to an
area twenty minutes from where I live, and people didn't
(07:31):
go very far, like the sun got a place next
to next door. As a matter of fact, my father
bought a plot of land next to where he grew up. Sure,
I walked across the field to my grandfather's house kind
of thing. Yeah, and then when air travel became available
to everybody, everything changed pretty much. Well, you always say the.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Oldest son got the farm. That primer generator was well,
you know, into play in the seventeenth, eighteenth and early
nineteenth century.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
The youngest son.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Got to get a wagon and a horse, and not
so the ones that went west because they're not gonna
inherit that interesting one.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yeah, so beck in the day and not that far back,
the oldest son got everything pretty much, or it was divided.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
But in some cases, but generally the oldest son would
inherit and then and oftentimes would get the farm. And
then you know, the younger son may get a portion
of or they might equally divide it, but typically it's
by primogenitor, especially in the earlier days.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I bet you have a story. Usually people in the
biz have a story like Richard Pickering from Plymouth Plantation.
It's two family members in the Mayflower so he can
destroy anybody that at parties when they start bragging about.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Being a Mayflower. You must have an interesting story, right.
I have a lady who was accused of witchcraft. All right,
lit'en hear that story after this on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
It's Night Side with Dan on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Bradley for Dan, we were with David Alan Lambert, who
is a big time, big deal genealogist, and we're going
to ask you to share if you have a myth
you would like to be able to verify in your family,
be it good, bad, or ugly. We're going to give
you some tips on doing that, and I'll get to
Nick and Somerville in a minute. First, David, you I
(09:26):
find that people who are in genealogy have just happened
to have interesting genealogical stories. Maybe everyone does, and you
happen to have ferreted it out. Tell us your story.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Tenth great grandmother Mary Perkins Brawdbury lived up in Salisbury, Massachusetts,
and one of her neighbors accused her to manifest into
a blue boar.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And what year was this? Of course it was, and
she was arrested. Do you know who's the witch there
blue boar? The person that is accused of turning into
a blue boar or the person that saw the blue boar.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Well, they said that she manifested into one and then
chased at his horse.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
What happened to her, Well, she was put into jail
but escaped.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Her husband was a merchant and she disappeared into northern
New England. And we know that because she died eight
years later. But after everything died down, she pulled back.
There's a great push right now to exonerate those that
have been accused of witchcraft. Right now, there's a house
bill Palace built nineteen twenty seven which is right out
(10:34):
there that might hopefully pass through that will clear the
names of everyone after three hundred and thirty plus years.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Do you ever do any genealogical work with those accused witches? Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Sure, you know all the time. I've got people that
are descendants. I mean, my hometown of Stoton is named
for the judge, which I think is ironic. One of
my ancestor's brother was Samuel Sewell, the great Diarist of Boston,
and he was the only judge who actually felt bad
about it.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Do you think the judges really believed they were witches?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, one of the things I've always thought is
that you know, you're either the accused or the accuser.
So I mean, do you want to be uh, take
the side of your neighbor and say, oh, no, they're
definitely not a witch by all means, and then all
of a sudden they'll think you're in league with them
and then accuse me.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh yeah, of course. Okay, got to go with the flow.
If you're a judge back, then you have more interesting
family stuff. Oh yeah, I have a bootlegger a story. Family,
show tell the bootlegger story, grand and no one knows
more detail about genealogy, So tell the detailed bootleggo version.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
The story was, my grandfather was a bootlegger in East
Boston and the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, and as
the story goes, he was the personal bootlego for a
man by the name of Joseph Patrick Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
He may have heard of his you say, as the
story goes back, did you, We.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Said, well, there's no record at the Kennedy line. I
didn't sign a receipt. No, no, it's all oral tradition.
But and that's one of the things about genealogy is
where we have people come into our location all the time,
Bradley that have these stories and yeah, some things you
can find in the newspapers. Sometimes you can find that
someone was murdered because you find the death record, or
(12:23):
you know they had a fortune and lost it because
it's a court case. But some of them lie in
the paths of history that we can't travel down. And
I love a good mystery, but I also like to
crack a good mystery too.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So let's say I wanted to any of us wanted
to know more about our families. We walk in here
to the.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Two American ancestors at ninety seven New Breech Street in Boston, and.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Well, what would be the first thing we would do.
I wouldn't know where to go or where to look.
You have people to help out, we do.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
They're going to send you right up to the seventh
floor where we have staff on the desk, and we'll
give you a family chart and you could start putting
down what you know, and we work with Basically, you know,
you might have your parents, grandparents, our great grandparents' name.
You might want to know where in Ireland you come from,
or what boat your family came over on, or perhaps
maybe you're Native American, or you want to know where
in Italy your family comes from. We can point you
(13:15):
out of the sources. If we don't have that, we're
going to get you to that direction. And the other
thing is that even if you can't come to visit US,
Americanancestors dot Org, which is our website, has over a
billion searchable records, and on there you can search things,
some for free. You can register on look at More,
you can pay and become a member. But if you
(13:36):
want to come into the library, I think that's the
best avenue because you get to experience it and have
hands on with the books and the resources and the staff.
So you go in and you fill out all the
information that you have, but then you yourself have to
go and look. No, we help you, you do, we
do help you. Yeah, we guide you along the way.
Nobody is left in the dark.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Because I can just picture myself wandering through stacks of
books twenty feet high, like at Trinity College in Dublin, Like,
I don't know, it sounds like a bad dream.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
We don't let anybody loose in the wilderness. I mean,
people can browse as much as it hy. But we're
obviously going to keep a good guidance, all right, So
let's talk to Nick and Somerville.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Man Tiking machine. Here. Hi, Nick, are you're on WBZ
with David Allen Lambert.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Pull Over there, Hi, I thought you since you're talking
about genealogy. I live in Somerville, but I've got a
cousin who's upstate in New York in the Albany area,
who just wrote a book. And the book is about
six generations of entrepreneurs. And he's a small businessman in
(14:48):
the Albany area and he's been intrigued by his forbearers
ahead of him, who were also small business of people,
entrepreneurs who started in Italy and one by one they
came over to America and they became very Americanized. And
(15:11):
he's written a book and Amazon has it now. It's
called Chopper and Sons. And that's cho Ppa and Sons
and as a not to be redundant, but he talks
about his six generations of entrepreneurs from Italy to America.
(15:32):
And my cousin's name, my cousin who wrote the book.
His name is Anthony J. Chopper Sr. He wrote this
book and concert with his daughter Mary Teresa Chopper O'Neill.
And it goes on to talk about all the efforts
(15:52):
that were put into the businesses and the raising of
the family and their successes here in America. And if
you want to go ahead and ask me any questions,
I'd be happy to answer them as best I can.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I don't think we have any questions. Would you like
to learn more about this? Well, in which way, well,
you know, learn more about the Choppers. I love that
name Chopper.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
Well what they when when they started in Italy? The
name and my cousin Anthony Chopper Senior, who wrote the
book uh in his dining room in his home in Lowdonville,
New York. It's it shows where the three of the
(16:38):
entrepreneurs who came who were born in Italy. Their real
name was Della Chopper then yeah, it was Della Chopper.
And they originated in a very small town called Bellona
in the province of Cazte, Italy. And in as time
(16:59):
went on, they turned their name. They changed their name
to Americanizer, to chump A Choppa. And they were either
master tailors, master shoemakers. They were really ottisans in their
own way.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So no bums the whole in the whole group, everybody,
everybody was doing well.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, but they were doing well, but with a lot
of very hard work. Even though back in the old country.
You know, people in so many of a country think
that the streets of America aligned with gold, but they
never really pushed the fact that people had in those
days when they came back here in the late eighteen
(17:47):
hundreds and the early nineteen hundreds, had to work pretty
hard to get that golded.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, it sounds like a great book that we need
to have at the library.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
American ancestors would be interested in getting your copy. So
thanks for telling me about it. I'll look it up
on Amazon. I did tom Anino's genealogy as people came
from Avellino.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I did that gosh over thirty years ago, and it's
it's it's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Italian genealogy is really lucky because you can go back
to the Napoleonic era with some of the records, so
you can go back over two hundred years for we'll
call Nick appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
After this break, I want to find out we say,
I did tom Anino's genealogy. I want to know the
step by step of what you do. Don't tell me yet,
but we're all going to find out together together. After
this On WBZ, rob.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
All Right, American Ancestors is an organization that our guest
is the chief genealogist of David Allan Lambert, and I'd
love you to share at six months, seven, two, four,
ten thirty any family rumors and we can we actually
dave down that, but can give you some ideas, some
(19:02):
tips on how to track that down and they will
actually help you. At American Ancestors, you mentioned that you
had done Tom Anino's genealogy. You don't have to tell
me any dok secrets, but I would love to know
the process. So somebody comes in Tom. Did Tom come
in himself? No, it was an interest.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I started working at American Ancestors the same year he
became mayor of Boston and back in ninety three, and
I was just curious, you know, as anybody is with
you know, people in politics, they always say the easiest
way to get genealogy is done.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Is to run for office. So I started looking up.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I looked up his birth record, and I had his
parents and got his grandparents and got back to his
great grandparents, and I was already in the old Country.
Then I started looking at other things like naturalization records
where did they come from? And military draft records?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You know when they registered for the draft, and so
where do you find these? How do you find military
draft records?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, what I did thirty years ago is going to
the National Archives in Waltham, Massachusetts, and now I can
go online to places like.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You used to do a lot of footwork and driving around, Yeah,
asking people, can I can I get in here during
these certain hours.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Exactly, But the records are still the same way. They're
kind of locked down. Anything in Massachusetts, it's a birth
that occurs after nineteen thirty five, you get to go
to the Department of Idol Statistics or the city of
town clerk. If it's before thirty five, it's at the
mass State Archives. Well, lucky they go back to eighteen
forty one. So it's everybody's birth, marriage, and death.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Okay, what else did you check on Tom Anino?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I mean, well, I mean what I wanted to try
to find out if there was any interesting stories. So
I mean with his family, you know, they were all
living in the Hyde Park area for years. His father's
family worked for Westinghouse right there across the tracks from
where they lived. It was just it was interesting to
see his other family was the Sachetti family and they
(20:58):
were also.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
From Avellino, Eve Avellino.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
And uh, when we gave him his genealogy, uh, he
was so touched by it he teared up. And because
he had some of it he didn't know.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I mean some of it.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
You're going to know your grandparents, but you might not
know your grandmother's middle name.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You might not know where she was born or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
So I think we we added that little extra detail.
I've done Doris Curne Goodwin's genealogy. I did David McCullough's genealogy.
Uh Ken Burns, who just did the.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Genealogy, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
So and uh David McCullough, that was no kidding. Yeah,
so I got a chance to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You are genealogists to the stars. Well, I've been doing
a few of them over the years.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
But okay, before we get to Donna in Portsmouth, I
wonder which Portsmouth. I bet it's New Hampshire anyway. Actually, uh,
let's go right to him right now. I want to
make sure he has plenty of time. Don in Portsmouth?
Which Portsmouth? Don you're on w b.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Yeah, New Hampshire, right on there we go. Yeah, my
family comes from Wisconsin. But what I wanted to say
is that all my details about what I'm talking about
are now in a safe in my office. But anyway,
the gist of the story is that these three hourshmen
(22:24):
came over here from Ireland and like the eighteen seventies,
and one lived at State in Boston, one went to Wisconsin,
one went to California. But the one that went to
Wisconsin he married a woman there and they had sixteen kids,
(22:46):
and my great great grandfather or my great grandfather was born.
He was his last one, sixteen. But things got so
tough and rough the economy that they couldn't they couldn't
raise a kid, so my grand great grandfather was adopted.
(23:08):
Well probably not legally, but because he kept the same name.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Anyway, would you like to find out all the details.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
Well, I have it all pretty much. I just wanted
to tell you about it. He's this Indian tribe in
Wisconsin called the chip Awa Indians. They adopted my grandfather
because they couldn't raise They didn't they couldn't afford all
(23:39):
the kids, so they adopted him.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
His parents could not afford to take care of him.
So the Americans adopted him, did they just say?
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Hear otherwise? No? You go ahead, sorry, Yeah, well, I
say adopted on party, not legally, but they raised them
and he married one of them, one of the tribe
ladies there that he grew up with, and her name
was Manih. But anyway, is that true? Yeah, that's true. Yes,
(24:18):
you know it's I got a picture and everything and
I got you know.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Okay, So David Allen Lambert DL, I know that miniehow
has a famous Native American person, but I forget the
exact details.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, obviously is one of the names that
you hear a lot when people put out names. The
thing with the DNA, if you've ever done the DNA
to so, I'll tell you, one way or another, how
much percentage you are Native American based upon your autosomal DNA.
So there's a variety of different companies ancestry my Heritage
twenty three meters.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
They'll all help you with that.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
But it sounds like you've got the stories. And the
nice thing is you've got the story because a lot
of people find the facts, but they don't have the
story to back it up. The three brothers from Ireland
is a very common myth, but it's also three brothers
from Sweden. Three brothers from Ireland Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, yeah, I would have Swedish. Yeah, I wouldn't think
of being a.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Very Irish heavily populated. Did they keep in touch with
the Boston family, That's all I'm curious about.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
I don't think they did. Somehow they knew that one
of the brothers went to California, and I don't know,
they don't know. I mean, I don't know what his name.
But I'm sure they.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Can help you with that. We can help you with that.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Come one into American Ancestors sometime when you're down from
Portsmouth or just go to American Ancestors. There's a great
database we have called Missing Friends. It was ads published
in the Boston Pilot.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's ninety Street in Boston. Go in there, tell them
you're on WBZ and they'll help you. They would help
you anyway, but maybe they'll help you more.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Oh great, thank you?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
What's done? You take care? Oh yeah? How much does
it cost to get your genealogy done? Say that, I'm
John Smith. I want to know about my family. Well,
we're gonna say it depends. It really does. The trouble
of saying that, yeah, is it by the hour? Is
it by how famous I am, how much money I have?
How do sliding scale for four poor people?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well again, we're open for free, just you know, give
a donation through the march, so you can come in
pretty much every day and we can help you a
little bit at a time. If you wanted us to
just do the genealogy for you. We have a research
services department that charges by the hour.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And if you're a member, there's one rate.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
If you're a non member, there's another rate. Right now,
because of the amount of people that we get, we
have over six.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Month wait to do the geniality.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Oh so you better have doing it yourself, or we
do consultations, or we do consultations on zoom or in person,
and that's quicker. You could book something like that in
a couple of weeks, short time, and then we can
kind of.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Which is a membership.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Membership is ninety nine to ninety five for.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
A couldn't couldn't just make it one hundred bucks. I
got to give that nickelback. It's interesting, and uh, look
I think we have time for Florence and Groveland or
Groveland in Florence.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
Hello Florence, Hi, how are you very well?
Speaker 7 (27:15):
We are well, well, well, I just wanted to tell you.
I've already told this to Dan Gray one time a
while bad and also more than why can't you? But
on my father's side, I am related to Franklin Pierce,
our fourteenth president, and I think it's eighteen fifty four
(27:40):
or something like that. And I'm also related to Barbara Bush,
who is passed on now.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Also, let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Does that make you feel better about yourself? I mean,
this is a that's a legit question, like why do
people people want to be mayflower people? People want to
be a constantly? You know, my cousin fought on the constant,
My great great, great great fought on the Constitution. I'm
gonna ask you, and then I'll ask David. How much
(28:16):
a motivation this is? What does it? Does it puff
people up? Make them feel more legitimate? Because I have
been thinking about this in our existences here on earth.
The big question is what's the point and what we
all search for? What we all search for at the
end of the day, Florence is significance. We all search
(28:39):
for significance, whether it's I'm cool I'm on the radio,
or I'm cool i'm the president, or I'm cool because
i'm rich, I am sign that boils down to significance.
And if you, I mean, this is kind of a
shortcut to significance if you have fancy relatives from way back.
So do you feel a little more significant, don't you?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yes, you do, Yes, you do.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
I just.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's okay, cry, it's okay.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
I was surprised when I heard a little bit about
it from my dad, and I just thought, where you
were talking about this, that's good. You might like to
hear about it.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I did, and.
Speaker 7 (29:27):
So I think it's nice. It's nice. They're going. You
can't talk with them now, and you know, but it's
nice to know that you had some ancests that we're
in the I don't know. Can we call it lime
light for a little while ago significant.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
That's a great call. Look at the time, it's five
nine five, so we got to go. But that was
a really good call, Thank you very much. I'll admit it.
I would probably feel more significant if my ancestor was Napoleon.
There you go, you know, yeah, you go to a party. Well,
you know, my ancestor was on the Mayflower and if
(30:10):
I could say, yeah, my ancestor was Alexander the Great, Okay,
so take that exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
You know, for me, I lost all my grandparents Bradley
by the time I was eleven years old.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
They we're all gone, and I wanted to know where
I came from. So I started to research.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
The stories because my parents didn't have a great knowledge
of their own grandparents. And for me, it allowed me
to see where I fit into local history, state history,
American history, and world history. Because then I enjoyed social
studies as a kid, because as a seventy eight year old,
I could say, oh, well, my ancestor was marched on
Lexington and Concker to my ancestor was a drummer boy
(30:47):
in the Civil War. Her brother was a drummer boy
in the Civil War, and he gave me that connection
in history became more interesting at least for me as
a kid, and I, you know, I care more about
the regular paperhanger who was my great grandfather was on
a whaling ship, or my soldier who was a British
red Coat who was at bunker Hill.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And yeah, after this break, you you found out, Well,
you just kind of gave it away, but you can
flesh that out a little bit. Kind of a surprise, yeah,
and a big and this relative did a big circle
coming back to a place not realizing what his ancestor
had been. And this is something you uncovered. And we'll
tell that story next on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Great great, great great great guests David Allen Lambert from
American Ancestors, and we're going to go ahead and you're
going to tell the story about a surprise you had
when you looked into yours. Then we're going to talk
about the Ken Barons genealogy you did, because you there's
a fascinating fact in that. Sure, all right, we have
(31:57):
a short time, So beast of synct.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Okay, Thomas Barry came to Boston right at the time
when the rebellion is going on.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You know, the Boston Tea Party had happened.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
By seventeen seventy four, we have troops coming into Boston.
He was with a thirty eighth Regiment afoot. He did
march to Lexington Green was there, he was at Conquered Bridge.
He was at Bunker Hill, at other places Brooklyn Heights,
and then at the end of the war a batch
of the guys from that regiment were actually mustered out
(32:29):
and got Crown land grants in Nova Scotia.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
So you've told them which side you tell the people?
Which you said? Yeah, he's a red coat.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
So and I'm the state historian for the Massachusetts Sunsay
the American Revolution, so stating that I have a red
coat in the family tree just gives me a lot
of pressure from my fellow members.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So these crown how'd they get land grants from the king.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
After the Revolution? So he was up in Nova Scotia.
The regiment had disbanded after the war, and I think
about twenty of them got land in Nova Scotia, which
is now New Brunswick. Fast forward to nineteen twenty three,
my grandmother, who was his third great granddaughter, comes down
and settles in East Boston. By the nineteen thirties of
(33:15):
living in Charlestown, right in the sunnyside of the shady
side of Bunker Hill, my father would have been beat
up as a child if he had ever told his
classmates that his ancestor was a redcoat. Going to Charlestown
High School or you know. So it was an interesting
thing for me to discover.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
My dad never learned that. I found it years after
he passed away.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
But a lot of people have people who fought a
march on Lexington and Concord. But if you look at
the math Bradley, if you march in from New Hampshire,
you're not going to be there in enough time. But
if you're with a redcoat regiment that went there to
begin with your ancestors there, So I'm there, but on
the wrong side.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Clarify something for me, not being an expert on anything,
I would have thought that the king would have lost
his ability to give land grants after the war. Well,
Canada was still the British Canada. Yeah, so Canada. That explains. Yeah,
so where in Canada is in an.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Area called now Albert County, New Brunswick and a little
town called Coverdale near Moncton, New Brunswick, Monkton.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I know where that is. My grandmother was born. All right,
now tell the answer. Oh, interesting fact related to not
really related to genealogy, but only in that when people
pass different things happened to their remains, and that's kind
of related to genealogy and to tell your Disneyland story.
Oh well one of the things people, Yeah, this is.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
The story I maybe hopefully not just an urban myth.
I think this actually comes up because they have a
code for it. I write a book about twenty years
ago called a Guide to Massachusetts Cemeteries and if somebody
is cremated, because some places have cremation gardens. Luckily I
did a book on Massachusetts and not Florida because I'd
have to include the Haunted Mansion at disney World, because
(35:01):
they go in the spread Grandma's ashes or Grandpa's ashes
in the Haunted Mansion, and then they have a code
to clean it up.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
So instead of say, uh, Cooperstown, New York, right, they'll
spread the ashes in the Haunted Mansion, right, and Disneyland.
But that's not a good idea, folks. And did you
tell them why?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, because they do clean the place occasionally. Vacuuming might
be a problem, and it's not just a random vacuum
at the end of the night. It's kind of like
a spill on Aisle three in the Superman.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
It's a code. They will say, they will see ashes
on the floor, they'll know what's up, and somebody will
go on the loud speaker, h code code Grandma. You
said it was code. I think it's like something like
code code Grandma haunted mansion. And they will come and
sweep up your in somebody's ashes and throw them out.
I guess so. So you never know where you're gonna
(35:55):
end up. All right, In the remaining time, let's talk
about your very fascinating interactions with Ken Barns as you
did the Brons genealogy.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
You know, Ken Burns has done so much to give
us the story of baseball, jazz, and now recently the Revolution.
But he had done the Civil War, and I had
done the genealogy for David McCullough, who narrated the Civil
War series. But we had ken Burns as a guest Bradley,
and as I looked into his genealogy, I found out
he had a New Jersey family with the last name
(36:24):
of Flowers. And something struck a chord there, because I
know I'd seen that name before, and like our caller
from Groveland, Mass connection to Franklin Pierce, Well, yeah, ken
Burns actually has a connection to Abraham Lincoln. Their ancestors
were brothers in New Jersey and the colonial period. So
ken Burns's cousins with Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Their answers were brothers. Yes, so his cousins with He's
a cousin with Abraham Lincoln. Yeah, see there's some significance. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, So, I mean, I don't know who'd be more impressed,
Abraham Lincoln ken Burns.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
That's a good point. Yeah, like who's all right? You know,
I guess we'll have to save some for next time.
I do. I have four minutes here, and I don't
want to, you know, not give you the time to
say a proper goodbye. I want to go through everything
again as far as how people can get in touch
(37:17):
with you and learn, learn what's back there, because even
if even if you are not related to anybody that
anyone knows, it is super interesting. I would say, to
know where you are from, and because where you're from
and the time that happened all goes into you know,
(37:41):
making up who you are.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I mean, like I said, if you come and visit
us again ninety seven Newbury, We're open Tuesday through Saturday
ten to six, or just go to American Ancestors dot
org and sign up for a free account. And there
are things you have to be a member for Bradley,
but I mean you can get a lot just by
going on on our own website and checking it out.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Okay, And we didn't even get into the fact that
you were the chief genealogist for the Sons of the Revolution.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Well, I'm chief genealogist for American ancestors and and I'm
the state historian for the Sons of the American Revolution.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Do you have a quick story of a son of
the American Revolution Revolution?
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I mean, we have people want to join all the time.
But the Boston Chapter, which I'm the vice president for,
I had a guy.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Come to me at work one time.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
It says I'm related to John Adams, And I'm like, yeah,
sure you are, because I figured that you have a
great ancestor. Right, it's a common question, But actually no,
his grandfather was Charles Francis Adams from Raytheon. And actually
he is not just John Adams descendant, but John Quincy.
So when I brought him in for membership, I said,
would you like three descendants of someone who has patriotic
(38:50):
service and the Revolution?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, sure, because that means you didn't fight, but you
had something to contribute to related to John Adams, John Quinn,
John Quincy Adams, all the way down to his mother
who was an Adams, and his grandfather was Charles Francis Adams.
He lives down on the Cape and he and his
two sons joined up his members and so.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
They were that, well, who is the patriotic service? John
Adams the president? Wow, so you rolled your eyes. You
were wrong on that one. Thank you so much, David Lambert.
You have many more stories I can tell, So we're
gonna have to have you back, and you're really good
on the radio. So thank you very much and the
best to you and yours. Next up, what is punk
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thanks Dan Watkins, rather Jay and for Dan tonight. And
I'm talking to you all out there in terms of
family history family folklore. A lot of families have a
story one of your ancestors was a pirate or a
Mayflower person, or on the Constitution, or ran a butcher
(00:30):
shop in Harvard Square. Whatever, there's some family story that
gets passed down. And two things I would like you
to a share that story with us, with the community here,
the Beezy community. And b I'm going to talk to
a genealogist. The genealogist not just a genealogist. We have
(00:52):
as a guest here in studio is David Allan Lambert.
He's the chief genealogist for the brew Family Learning Center.
And also you have other gigs that you do. Why
don't you tell us about those?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, Brutlet Family Learning Center is with American Ancestors, which
is one hundred and eighty years old. I'm also the
state historian for the Sons of the American Revolution.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So it's a little uh.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Have to talk about around the corner. You have to
talk about that a bunch and so I guess I
would start.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I have a little bit of a family story to
try to prime the pump, and I want you to
tell your story. And it doesn't have to be some
mayflowery story. It can be. I think my grandfather came
across came from Ireland in eighteen ninety four. I'd really
like to you know where, no where from Ireland it was,
so maybe I can go visit anything genealogical. This is
(01:49):
your chance for kind of a freebie, to get some
tips on how to track that down. Or maybe you
have no idea of any luminaries or bad people in
your family. Maybe you want to find out. We'll also
find out about the companies that do it and what
those are like, and maybe how DNA plays plays into
(02:09):
this or not. I have a bunch of questions, but
I guess I'll start out with a story. Sure of
my family. For the first one of us Jays came
to the Dover area in Gover, New Hampshire area in
about sixteen forty and they fished in the Oyster River area,
(02:34):
and I think he was killed in an altercation with
Native Americans over territorial rights. But his son built a
garrison and I went to see it. The two falls ago.
I went up there, somebody from the Durham Area Historical Society.
I met her at the train with my brothers and
we all went and the story of this. There was
(02:58):
a garrison and there were about eighteen men I guess
associated with the garrison and families, and the Native Americans
noticed that all eighteen or all eighteen men were out
in the field, and so they attacked. They attacked them
in then they went back to the garrison and killed
(03:21):
most of those people. If there were two boys who
fought them off for a while and then finally they
succumbed and the woman, and I don't know if it
was if it was the lieutenant Lieutenant James's wife was
taken hostage for a year and released a year later.
(03:42):
And it's a detailed account of it. I guess it
was a big deal at the town. So there's a
detailed a count by somebody Mather, and I don't think
it was Cotton, or it may have been.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He actually did a lot with the part Salem Witchcruft trails,
because I think this happened in like seventeen oh four.
Because my William Pittman from the same place was killed
river at the same time sixteen or sixteen eighty nine
eighty nine case of the first the first attack when
that happened.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And and that is quite interesting. And I did my research.
I found the written and the written what do have you?
What do you call it? His last rolling testament or
the account of the event? No, like the family line
of the genealogy, the genial there you go. Okay, somebody
(04:32):
somebody begat somebody and and got it right up to
my actual grandfather. So I knew it was legit. And
the I'm going to leave it alone because I like that.
I like that tale, and I don't don't want to
learn any more that might make it false. But it
is really interesting and it is interesting to read accounts
(04:52):
if there are any, about the way people fought. And
it's interesting in the account by Mather how they spoke
about the Native Americans. They used all kinds of less
than less than nice adjectives, and I won't say what
they were, but it was a different time. And so
(05:14):
if anybody else has a you know, a story that
they'd like to get tips on how to verify or debunk,
or if you'd just like to find out more about
your family. Maybe you know nothing. A lot of people
do the genetic swab thing, but what you do is
(05:35):
kind of cooler. I think, well we do. What are
the difference?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I mean, the scientific approach with DNA allows you to
basically you know the paternity of your ancestors, so you
could like find out if your last name is correct.
I mean, I've had plenty of people think that they
have a mayfil hour line only to find out their
last name is McGillicuddy. So you know, Saint Patrick's Day
becomes more important than Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But other way, those people are sad. They are they
are I wish they kept their money in their pocket.
They just stuck with their myth.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And I mean, so we do the research as well.
My colleague Melanie macomb is, our genetic genealogist, has a
lot of consultations with people that get DNA results. But
it could be there trying to find their dad where
they're trying to find you. Why do all of a
sudden I have all these matches. So we don't do
DNA testing, but we do the analysis of it and
the other thing that we do on American ancestors for
(06:27):
one hundred and eighty years is we welcome people in.
I mean, in fact, we're open, like I mentioned, until
March for free. Just give a donation if you like.
In ninety seven Newbery, so you can come in, if
you're in the Boston American Ancestors, American ancestor what's in
there when you go in there? We have a research
center that has over a quarter of a million books,
twenty eight million manuscripts, and besides our new Family Heritage Experience,
(06:51):
which is like a virtual, interactive, hands on experience to
learn about genealogy and cultures, which is what we expanded.
Because we used to be one building, we built an addition,
so we're now at ninety seven Newbery and expand into
almost three properties right on Newberry Street near the.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Intersection of Clarendon. One thing I noticed, it's interesting is
how little people traveled until maybe nineteen fifty, so that
families are clustered around a pretty close area. For example,
the sixteen forty guy in my family came to an
area twenty minutes from where I live, and people didn't
(07:31):
go very far, like the sun got a place next
to next door. As a matter of fact, my father
bought a plot of land next to where he grew up. Sure,
I walked across the field to my grandfather's house kind
of thing. Yeah, and then when air travel became available
to everybody, everything changed pretty much. Well, you always say the.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Oldest son got the farm. That primer generator was well,
you know, into play in the seventeenth, eighteenth and early
nineteenth century.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
The youngest son.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Got to get a wagon and a horse, and not
so the ones that went west because they're not gonna
inherit that interesting one.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yeah, so beck in the day and not that far back,
the oldest son got everything pretty much, or it was divided.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
But in some cases, but generally the oldest son would
inherit and then and oftentimes would get the farm. And
then you know, the younger son may get a portion
of or they might equally divide it, but typically it's
by primogenitor, especially in the earlier days.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I bet you have a story. Usually people in the
biz have a story like Richard Pickering from Plymouth Plantation.
It's two family members in the Mayflower so he can
destroy anybody that at parties when they start bragging about.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Being a Mayflower. You must have an interesting story, right.
I have a lady who was accused of witchcraft. All right,
lit'en hear that story after this on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
It's Night Side with Dan on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Bradley for Dan, we were with David Alan Lambert, who
is a big time, big deal genealogist, and we're going
to ask you to share if you have a myth
you would like to be able to verify in your family,
be it good, bad, or ugly. We're going to give
you some tips on doing that, and I'll get to
Nick and Somerville in a minute. First, David, you I
(09:26):
find that people who are in genealogy have just happened
to have interesting genealogical stories. Maybe everyone does, and you
happen to have ferreted it out. Tell us your story.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Tenth great grandmother Mary Perkins Brawdbury lived up in Salisbury, Massachusetts,
and one of her neighbors accused her to manifest into
a blue boar.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And what year was this? Of course it was, and
she was arrested. Do you know who's the witch there
blue boar? The person that is accused of turning into
a blue boar or the person that saw the blue boar.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Well, they said that she manifested into one and then
chased at his horse.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
What happened to her, Well, she was put into jail
but escaped.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Her husband was a merchant and she disappeared into northern
New England. And we know that because she died eight
years later. But after everything died down, she pulled back.
There's a great push right now to exonerate those that
have been accused of witchcraft. Right now, there's a house
bill Palace built nineteen twenty seven which is right out
(10:34):
there that might hopefully pass through that will clear the
names of everyone after three hundred and thirty plus years.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Do you ever do any genealogical work with those accused witches? Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Sure, you know all the time. I've got people that
are descendants. I mean, my hometown of Stoton is named
for the judge, which I think is ironic. One of
my ancestor's brother was Samuel Sewell, the great Diarist of Boston,
and he was the only judge who actually felt bad
about it.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Do you think the judges really believed they were witches?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, one of the things I've always thought is
that you know, you're either the accused or the accuser.
So I mean, do you want to be uh, take
the side of your neighbor and say, oh, no, they're
definitely not a witch by all means, and then all
of a sudden they'll think you're in league with them
and then accuse me.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh yeah, of course. Okay, got to go with the flow.
If you're a judge back, then you have more interesting
family stuff. Oh yeah, I have a bootlegger a story. Family,
show tell the bootlegger story, grand and no one knows
more detail about genealogy, So tell the detailed bootleggo version.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
The story was, my grandfather was a bootlegger in East
Boston and the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, and as
the story goes, he was the personal bootlego for a
man by the name of Joseph Patrick Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
He may have heard of his you say, as the
story goes back, did you, We.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Said, well, there's no record at the Kennedy line. I
didn't sign a receipt. No, no, it's all oral tradition.
But and that's one of the things about genealogy is
where we have people come into our location all the time,
Bradley that have these stories and yeah, some things you
can find in the newspapers. Sometimes you can find that
someone was murdered because you find the death record, or
(12:23):
you know they had a fortune and lost it because
it's a court case. But some of them lie in
the paths of history that we can't travel down. And
I love a good mystery, but I also like to
crack a good mystery too.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
So let's say I wanted to any of us wanted
to know more about our families. We walk in here
to the.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Two American ancestors at ninety seven New Breech Street in Boston, and.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Well, what would be the first thing we would do.
I wouldn't know where to go or where to look.
You have people to help out, we do.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
They're going to send you right up to the seventh
floor where we have staff on the desk, and we'll
give you a family chart and you could start putting
down what you know, and we work with Basically, you know,
you might have your parents, grandparents, our great grandparents' name.
You might want to know where in Ireland you come from,
or what boat your family came over on, or perhaps
maybe you're Native American, or you want to know where
in Italy your family comes from. We can point you
(13:15):
out of the sources. If we don't have that, we're
going to get you to that direction. And the other
thing is that even if you can't come to visit US,
Americanancestors dot Org, which is our website, has over a
billion searchable records, and on there you can search things,
some for free. You can register on look at More,
you can pay and become a member. But if you
(13:36):
want to come into the library, I think that's the
best avenue because you get to experience it and have
hands on with the books and the resources and the staff.
So you go in and you fill out all the
information that you have, but then you yourself have to
go and look. No, we help you, you do, we
do help you. Yeah, we guide you along the way.
Nobody is left in the dark.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Because I can just picture myself wandering through stacks of
books twenty feet high, like at Trinity College in Dublin, Like,
I don't know, it sounds like a bad dream.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
We don't let anybody loose in the wilderness. I mean,
people can browse as much as it hy. But we're
obviously going to keep a good guidance, all right, So
let's talk to Nick and Somerville.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Man Tiking machine. Here. Hi, Nick, are you're on WBZ
with David Allen Lambert.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Pull Over there, Hi, I thought you since you're talking
about genealogy. I live in Somerville, but I've got a
cousin who's upstate in New York in the Albany area,
who just wrote a book. And the book is about
six generations of entrepreneurs. And he's a small businessman in
(14:48):
the Albany area and he's been intrigued by his forbearers
ahead of him, who were also small business of people,
entrepreneurs who started in Italy and one by one they
came over to America and they became very Americanized. And
(15:11):
he's written a book and Amazon has it now. It's
called Chopper and Sons. And that's cho Ppa and Sons
and as a not to be redundant, but he talks
about his six generations of entrepreneurs from Italy to America.
(15:32):
And my cousin's name, my cousin who wrote the book.
His name is Anthony J. Chopper Sr. He wrote this
book and concert with his daughter Mary Teresa Chopper O'Neill.
And it goes on to talk about all the efforts
(15:52):
that were put into the businesses and the raising of
the family and their successes here in America. And if
you want to go ahead and ask me any questions,
I'd be happy to answer them as best I can.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I don't think we have any questions. Would you like
to learn more about this? Well, in which way, well,
you know, learn more about the Choppers. I love that
name Chopper.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
Well what they when when they started in Italy? The
name and my cousin Anthony Chopper Senior, who wrote the
book uh in his dining room in his home in Lowdonville,
New York. It's it shows where the three of the
(16:38):
entrepreneurs who came who were born in Italy. Their real
name was Della Chopper then yeah, it was Della Chopper.
And they originated in a very small town called Bellona
in the province of Cazte, Italy. And in as time
(16:59):
went on, they turned their name. They changed their name
to Americanizer, to chump A Choppa. And they were either
master tailors, master shoemakers. They were really ottisans in their
own way.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So no bums the whole in the whole group, everybody,
everybody was doing well.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, but they were doing well, but with a lot
of very hard work. Even though back in the old country.
You know, people in so many of a country think
that the streets of America aligned with gold, but they
never really pushed the fact that people had in those
days when they came back here in the late eighteen
(17:47):
hundreds and the early nineteen hundreds, had to work pretty
hard to get that golded.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, it sounds like a great book that we need
to have at the library.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
American ancestors would be interested in getting your copy. So
thanks for telling me about it. I'll look it up
on Amazon. I did tom Anino's genealogy as people came
from Avellino.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I did that gosh over thirty years ago, and it's
it's it's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Italian genealogy is really lucky because you can go back
to the Napoleonic era with some of the records, so
you can go back over two hundred years for we'll
call Nick appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
After this break, I want to find out we say,
I did tom Anino's genealogy. I want to know the
step by step of what you do. Don't tell me yet,
but we're all going to find out together together. After
this On WBZ, rob.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
All Right, American Ancestors is an organization that our guest
is the chief genealogist of David Allan Lambert, and I'd
love you to share at six months, seven, two, four,
ten thirty any family rumors and we can we actually
dave down that, but can give you some ideas, some
(19:02):
tips on how to track that down and they will
actually help you. At American Ancestors, you mentioned that you
had done Tom Anino's genealogy. You don't have to tell
me any dok secrets, but I would love to know
the process. So somebody comes in Tom. Did Tom come
in himself? No, it was an interest.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I started working at American Ancestors the same year he
became mayor of Boston and back in ninety three, and
I was just curious, you know, as anybody is with
you know, people in politics, they always say the easiest
way to get genealogy is done.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Is to run for office. So I started looking up.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I looked up his birth record, and I had his
parents and got his grandparents and got back to his
great grandparents, and I was already in the old Country.
Then I started looking at other things like naturalization records
where did they come from? And military draft records?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You know when they registered for the draft, and so
where do you find these? How do you find military
draft records?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, what I did thirty years ago is going to
the National Archives in Waltham, Massachusetts, and now I can
go online to places like.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You used to do a lot of footwork and driving around, Yeah,
asking people, can I can I get in here during
these certain hours.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Exactly, But the records are still the same way. They're
kind of locked down. Anything in Massachusetts, it's a birth
that occurs after nineteen thirty five, you get to go
to the Department of Idol Statistics or the city of
town clerk. If it's before thirty five, it's at the
mass State Archives. Well, lucky they go back to eighteen
forty one. So it's everybody's birth, marriage, and death.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Okay, what else did you check on Tom Anino?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I mean, well, I mean what I wanted to try
to find out if there was any interesting stories. So
I mean with his family, you know, they were all
living in the Hyde Park area for years. His father's
family worked for Westinghouse right there across the tracks from
where they lived. It was just it was interesting to
see his other family was the Sachetti family and they
(20:58):
were also.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
From Avellino, Eve Avellino.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
And uh, when we gave him his genealogy, uh, he
was so touched by it he teared up. And because
he had some of it he didn't know.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I mean some of it.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
You're going to know your grandparents, but you might not
know your grandmother's middle name.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You might not know where she was born or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
So I think we we added that little extra detail.
I've done Doris Curne Goodwin's genealogy. I did David McCullough's genealogy.
Uh Ken Burns, who just did the.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Genealogy, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
So and uh David McCullough, that was no kidding. Yeah,
so I got a chance to do that.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You are genealogists to the stars. Well, I've been doing
a few of them over the years.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
But okay, before we get to Donna in Portsmouth, I
wonder which Portsmouth. I bet it's New Hampshire anyway. Actually, uh,
let's go right to him right now. I want to
make sure he has plenty of time. Don in Portsmouth?
Which Portsmouth? Don you're on w b.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Yeah, New Hampshire, right on there we go. Yeah, my
family comes from Wisconsin. But what I wanted to say
is that all my details about what I'm talking about
are now in a safe in my office. But anyway,
the gist of the story is that these three hourshmen
(22:24):
came over here from Ireland and like the eighteen seventies,
and one lived at State in Boston, one went to Wisconsin,
one went to California. But the one that went to
Wisconsin he married a woman there and they had sixteen kids,
(22:46):
and my great great grandfather or my great grandfather was born.
He was his last one, sixteen. But things got so
tough and rough the economy that they couldn't they couldn't
raise a kid, so my grand great grandfather was adopted.
(23:08):
Well probably not legally, but because he kept the same name.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Anyway, would you like to find out all the details.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
Well, I have it all pretty much. I just wanted
to tell you about it. He's this Indian tribe in
Wisconsin called the chip Awa Indians. They adopted my grandfather
because they couldn't raise They didn't they couldn't afford all
(23:39):
the kids, so they adopted him.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
His parents could not afford to take care of him.
So the Americans adopted him, did they just say?
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Hear otherwise? No? You go ahead, sorry, Yeah, well, I
say adopted on party, not legally, but they raised them
and he married one of them, one of the tribe
ladies there that he grew up with, and her name
was Manih. But anyway, is that true? Yeah, that's true. Yes,
(24:18):
you know it's I got a picture and everything and
I got you know.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Okay, So David Allen Lambert DL, I know that miniehow
has a famous Native American person, but I forget the
exact details.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, obviously is one of the names that
you hear a lot when people put out names. The
thing with the DNA, if you've ever done the DNA
to so, I'll tell you, one way or another, how
much percentage you are Native American based upon your autosomal DNA.
So there's a variety of different companies ancestry my Heritage
twenty three meters.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
They'll all help you with that.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
But it sounds like you've got the stories. And the
nice thing is you've got the story because a lot
of people find the facts, but they don't have the
story to back it up. The three brothers from Ireland
is a very common myth, but it's also three brothers
from Sweden. Three brothers from Ireland Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, yeah, I would have Swedish. Yeah, I wouldn't think
of being a.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Very Irish heavily populated. Did they keep in touch with
the Boston family, That's all I'm curious about.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
I don't think they did. Somehow they knew that one
of the brothers went to California, and I don't know,
they don't know. I mean, I don't know what his name.
But I'm sure they.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Can help you with that. We can help you with that.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Come one into American Ancestors sometime when you're down from
Portsmouth or just go to American Ancestors. There's a great
database we have called Missing Friends. It was ads published
in the Boston Pilot.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's ninety Street in Boston. Go in there, tell them
you're on WBZ and they'll help you. They would help
you anyway, but maybe they'll help you more.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Oh great, thank you?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
What's done? You take care? Oh yeah? How much does
it cost to get your genealogy done? Say that, I'm
John Smith. I want to know about my family. Well,
we're gonna say it depends. It really does. The trouble
of saying that, yeah, is it by the hour? Is
it by how famous I am, how much money I have?
How do sliding scale for four poor people?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Well again, we're open for free, just you know, give
a donation through the march, so you can come in
pretty much every day and we can help you a
little bit at a time. If you wanted us to
just do the genealogy for you. We have a research
services department that charges by the hour.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And if you're a member, there's one rate.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
If you're a non member, there's another rate. Right now,
because of the amount of people that we get, we
have over six.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Month wait to do the geniality.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Oh so you better have doing it yourself, or we
do consultations, or we do consultations on zoom or in person,
and that's quicker. You could book something like that in
a couple of weeks, short time, and then we can
kind of.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Which is a membership.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Membership is ninety nine to ninety five for.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
A couldn't couldn't just make it one hundred bucks. I
got to give that nickelback. It's interesting, and uh, look
I think we have time for Florence and Groveland or
Groveland in Florence.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
Hello Florence, Hi, how are you very well?
Speaker 7 (27:15):
We are well, well, well, I just wanted to tell you.
I've already told this to Dan Gray one time a
while bad and also more than why can't you? But
on my father's side, I am related to Franklin Pierce,
our fourteenth president, and I think it's eighteen fifty four
(27:40):
or something like that. And I'm also related to Barbara Bush,
who is passed on now.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Also, let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Does that make you feel better about yourself? I mean,
this is a that's a legit question, like why do
people people want to be mayflower people? People want to
be a constantly? You know, my cousin fought on the constant,
My great great, great great fought on the Constitution. I'm
gonna ask you, and then I'll ask David. How much
(28:16):
a motivation this is? What does it? Does it puff
people up? Make them feel more legitimate? Because I have
been thinking about this in our existences here on earth.
The big question is what's the point and what we
all search for? What we all search for at the
end of the day, Florence is significance. We all search
(28:39):
for significance, whether it's I'm cool I'm on the radio,
or I'm cool i'm the president, or I'm cool because
i'm rich, I am sign that boils down to significance.
And if you, I mean, this is kind of a
shortcut to significance if you have fancy relatives from way back.
So do you feel a little more significant, don't you?
Speaker 5 (29:03):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yes, you do, Yes, you do.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
I just.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's okay, cry, it's okay.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
I was surprised when I heard a little bit about
it from my dad, and I just thought, where you
were talking about this, that's good. You might like to
hear about it.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I did, and.
Speaker 7 (29:27):
So I think it's nice. It's nice. They're going. You
can't talk with them now, and you know, but it's
nice to know that you had some ancests that we're
in the I don't know. Can we call it lime
light for a little while ago significant.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
That's a great call. Look at the time, it's five
nine five, so we got to go. But that was
a really good call, Thank you very much. I'll admit it.
I would probably feel more significant if my ancestor was Napoleon.
There you go, you know, yeah, you go to a party. Well,
you know, my ancestor was on the Mayflower and if
(30:10):
I could say, yeah, my ancestor was Alexander the Great, Okay,
so take that exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
You know, for me, I lost all my grandparents Bradley
by the time I was eleven years old.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
They we're all gone, and I wanted to know where
I came from. So I started to research.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
The stories because my parents didn't have a great knowledge
of their own grandparents. And for me, it allowed me
to see where I fit into local history, state history,
American history, and world history. Because then I enjoyed social
studies as a kid, because as a seventy eight year old,
I could say, oh, well, my ancestor was marched on
Lexington and Concker to my ancestor was a drummer boy
(30:47):
in the Civil War. Her brother was a drummer boy
in the Civil War, and he gave me that connection
in history became more interesting at least for me as
a kid, and I, you know, I care more about
the regular paperhanger who was my great grandfather was on
a whaling ship, or my soldier who was a British
red Coat who was at bunker Hill.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And yeah, after this break, you you found out, Well,
you just kind of gave it away, but you can
flesh that out a little bit. Kind of a surprise, yeah,
and a big and this relative did a big circle
coming back to a place not realizing what his ancestor
had been. And this is something you uncovered. And we'll
tell that story next on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Great great, great great great guests David Allen Lambert from
American Ancestors, and we're going to go ahead and you're
going to tell the story about a surprise you had
when you looked into yours. Then we're going to talk
about the Ken Barons genealogy you did, because you there's
a fascinating fact in that. Sure, all right, we have
(31:57):
a short time, So beast of synct.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Okay, Thomas Barry came to Boston right at the time
when the rebellion is going on.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You know, the Boston Tea Party had happened.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
By seventeen seventy four, we have troops coming into Boston.
He was with a thirty eighth Regiment afoot. He did
march to Lexington Green was there, he was at Conquered Bridge.
He was at Bunker Hill, at other places Brooklyn Heights,
and then at the end of the war a batch
of the guys from that regiment were actually mustered out
(32:29):
and got Crown land grants in Nova Scotia.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
So you've told them which side you tell the people?
Which you said? Yeah, he's a red coat.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
So and I'm the state historian for the Massachusetts Sunsay
the American Revolution, so stating that I have a red
coat in the family tree just gives me a lot
of pressure from my fellow members.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So these crown how'd they get land grants from the king.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
After the Revolution? So he was up in Nova Scotia.
The regiment had disbanded after the war, and I think
about twenty of them got land in Nova Scotia, which
is now New Brunswick. Fast forward to nineteen twenty three,
my grandmother, who was his third great granddaughter, comes down
and settles in East Boston. By the nineteen thirties of
(33:15):
living in Charlestown, right in the sunnyside of the shady
side of Bunker Hill, my father would have been beat
up as a child if he had ever told his
classmates that his ancestor was a redcoat. Going to Charlestown
High School or you know. So it was an interesting
thing for me to discover.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
My dad never learned that. I found it years after
he passed away.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
But a lot of people have people who fought a
march on Lexington and Concord. But if you look at
the math Bradley, if you march in from New Hampshire,
you're not going to be there in enough time. But
if you're with a redcoat regiment that went there to
begin with your ancestors there, So I'm there, but on
the wrong side.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Clarify something for me, not being an expert on anything,
I would have thought that the king would have lost
his ability to give land grants after the war. Well,
Canada was still the British Canada. Yeah, so Canada. That explains. Yeah,
so where in Canada is in an.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Area called now Albert County, New Brunswick and a little
town called Coverdale near Moncton, New Brunswick, Monkton.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I know where that is. My grandmother was born. All right,
now tell the answer. Oh, interesting fact related to not
really related to genealogy, but only in that when people
pass different things happened to their remains, and that's kind
of related to genealogy and to tell your Disneyland story.
Oh well one of the things people, Yeah, this is.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
The story I maybe hopefully not just an urban myth.
I think this actually comes up because they have a
code for it. I write a book about twenty years
ago called a Guide to Massachusetts Cemeteries and if somebody
is cremated, because some places have cremation gardens. Luckily I
did a book on Massachusetts and not Florida because I'd
have to include the Haunted Mansion at disney World, because
(35:01):
they go in the spread Grandma's ashes or Grandpa's ashes
in the Haunted Mansion, and then they have a code
to clean it up.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
So instead of say, uh, Cooperstown, New York, right, they'll
spread the ashes in the Haunted Mansion, right, and Disneyland.
But that's not a good idea, folks. And did you
tell them why?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, because they do clean the place occasionally. Vacuuming might
be a problem, and it's not just a random vacuum
at the end of the night. It's kind of like
a spill on Aisle three in the Superman.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
It's a code. They will say, they will see ashes
on the floor, they'll know what's up, and somebody will
go on the loud speaker, h code code Grandma. You
said it was code. I think it's like something like
code code Grandma haunted mansion. And they will come and
sweep up your in somebody's ashes and throw them out.
I guess so. So you never know where you're gonna
(35:55):
end up. All right, In the remaining time, let's talk
about your very fascinating interactions with Ken Barns as you
did the Brons genealogy.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
You know, Ken Burns has done so much to give
us the story of baseball, jazz, and now recently the Revolution.
But he had done the Civil War, and I had
done the genealogy for David McCullough, who narrated the Civil
War series. But we had ken Burns as a guest Bradley,
and as I looked into his genealogy, I found out
he had a New Jersey family with the last name
(36:24):
of Flowers. And something struck a chord there, because I
know I'd seen that name before, and like our caller
from Groveland, Mass connection to Franklin Pierce, Well, yeah, ken
Burns actually has a connection to Abraham Lincoln. Their ancestors
were brothers in New Jersey and the colonial period. So
ken Burns's cousins with Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Their answers were brothers. Yes, so his cousins with He's
a cousin with Abraham Lincoln. Yeah, see there's some significance. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, So, I mean, I don't know who'd be more impressed,
Abraham Lincoln ken Burns.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
That's a good point. Yeah, like who's all right? You know,
I guess we'll have to save some for next time.
I do. I have four minutes here, and I don't
want to, you know, not give you the time to
say a proper goodbye. I want to go through everything
again as far as how people can get in touch
(37:17):
with you and learn, learn what's back there, because even
if even if you are not related to anybody that
anyone knows, it is super interesting. I would say, to
know where you are from, and because where you're from
and the time that happened all goes into you know,
(37:41):
making up who you are.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
I mean, like I said, if you come and visit
us again ninety seven Newbury, We're open Tuesday through Saturday
ten to six, or just go to American Ancestors dot
org and sign up for a free account. And there
are things you have to be a member for Bradley,
but I mean you can get a lot just by
going on on our own website and checking it out.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Okay, And we didn't even get into the fact that
you were the chief genealogist for the Sons of the Revolution.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Well, I'm chief genealogist for American ancestors and and I'm
the state historian for the Sons of the American Revolution.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Do you have a quick story of a son of
the American Revolution Revolution?
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I mean, we have people want to join all the time.
But the Boston Chapter, which I'm the vice president for,
I had a guy.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Come to me at work one time.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
It says I'm related to John Adams, And I'm like, yeah,
sure you are, because I figured that you have a
great ancestor. Right, it's a common question, But actually no,
his grandfather was Charles Francis Adams from Raytheon. And actually
he is not just John Adams descendant, but John Quincy.
So when I brought him in for membership, I said,
would you like three descendants of someone who has patriotic
(38:50):
service and the Revolution?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, sure, because that means you didn't fight, but you
had something to contribute to related to John Adams, John Quinn,
John Quincy Adams, all the way down to his mother
who was an Adams, and his grandfather was Charles Francis Adams.
He lives down on the Cape and he and his
two sons joined up his members and so.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
They were that, well, who is the patriotic service? John
Adams the president? Wow, so you rolled your eyes. You
were wrong on that one. Thank you so much, David Lambert.
You have many more stories I can tell, So we're
gonna have to have you back, and you're really good
on the radio. So thank you very much and the
best to you and yours. Next up, what is punk
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