October 2, 2025 • 38 mins
The latest government report shows common cold infections this month are at the highest level since 2022. Roughly 31% of weekly tests are coming back positive for rhinovirus and enterovirus. Doctors say this signals a rough cold and flu season ahead. Infectious Disease Dr. Shira Doron of Tufts Medical Center checked in to talk about how to best stay protected this Fall against not only the common cold but the Flu, Covid, RSV and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WVS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, of course, the weather has turned a little bit
on the chili side, although I guess some warm weather
is expected in the next week or so, and you
could feel a nip in the air the last couple
of days.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We are in October.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's October second, and of course that I think should
remind all of us that with winter approaching, the cold
and flu season is approaching. And earlier this week we
had with us one of my favorite guests, doctor Shirah Drone,
who is an infectious disease she's the Chief Infection Control
Officer tough Medicine. She is a hospital epidemiologist at Tough's
(00:46):
Medical Center, and she's also a professor of medicine at
Toughs University School of Medicine. And I want to welcome
doctor Jerome back to Nightside. Welcome back, doctor, how are
you good?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Thank you so much for having me well.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
When we would check earlier this week, I was a
little concerned that I was raising more questions than you
could answer. And I also thought that this is the
perfect time of year to give my listeners an opportunity
to talk to you and ask you about what they
should or should not be doing this winter as we
(01:22):
get ready for the cold and flu season. And you know,
there's so many pitfalls that all of us are going
to be facing just the regular flu. I want to
talk about that, I want to talk about IRSV, certainly
want to talk about COVID, And at the same time,
I want to give people an opportunity to call in
and describe this set of circumstances, meaning their age and
(01:47):
what medical circumstances. They don't have to tell us everything,
but if just so, they need to be made aware
of what is available and what they should take advantage of.
So we just start off for the fun of it here,
and we don't prep questions here, and I did you
were I'd never asked you to send me a whole
(02:07):
bunch of questions. So I'm just going to sort of
take the place of some of the listeners, and I
hope that those who have feeled they had better questions
will will join the conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Let's start off with COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
What are we You know, we've always been able to
kind of predict what sort of a flu season it's.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Going to be.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Maybe we'll start with flu because what happens in the
Southern hemisphere when it's winter for them in the summertime,
if my memory serves, doesn't that give us some guidance
as to what might happen in the Northern hemisphere during
our winter.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah, that's right. We can use what we're seeing in
the Southern hemisphere during our summer there winter sometimes. You know,
we can always be thrown per loop because the virus,
the flu virus MU takes very quickly. But we can
use that as a as a predictor of sort to
try to determine whether we're going to have a bad
(03:02):
flu season. And we did have a really bad flu
season last year. I haven't heard that the Southern hemisphere
got particularly wall up to this past winter. So let's
cross our fingers and hope that this will be a
better one for flu.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Why is there that relationship obviously with air travel and
a lot of people you know, go to each we
fly around the world. I get that, But why is
it that this seems to be such a predictive value
in what happens in the Southern hemisphere that's likely coming
(03:41):
our way. I know it doesn't always work, okay, but
what causes that is it simply the interchange of modern
day travel.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You know, you're right, people are traveling all the time,
all year long. So why is it that we just
don't have the flu everywhere all at once. It's a
very good question. It is something about the winter, and
I think, right, so it's it's we have flu during
our winter and they have flu during their winter. But
(04:12):
it is probably not as simple as temperature, because there's
still a flu season in the southern northern hemisphere, right,
I mean, Florida still has a flu season, and it's
warm all year and it may so it's it's temperature,
but not only temperature. It's maybe people spending more time inside.
But again Florida, people spend time outside in the winter.
(04:35):
So it's it's actually not well understood after all these centuries.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Intrianza, you said that last winter was a tough flu season.
I remember a little after Christmas, I was dealing with
a heck of a weeze in my chest and discomfort,
and I actually went and got a chest X ray
at the advice of my doctor. I don't think that
they ever diagnosed what I had, but I was testing
(05:05):
myself for COVID, which was coming back negative, but I
felt miserable.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Was I simply dealing with what was the flu season
last year?
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
I mean was your test x right consistent with pneumonia?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, no, they checked me for that and there was
no pneumonia.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, but right, So, you know, one of the hard
things is we can't tell by looking at you what
respiratory virus you have. I mean there are a few
hints here and there. Wheezing can sometimes be more of
a sign of RSD infection. Flu typically hits you like
(05:45):
a ton of bricks from out of the blues, So
there are some clues, but without testing, you don't know.
And generally you don't have to do a test for
these viruses. We got so used to COVID tests tested
the slightest sign of illness, and that was because we
were doing contact chasing and isolation and quarantine. Now that
we're not doing those things, testing is not as important
(06:08):
unless you're someone who's at high risk for progressing to
severe disease. And then you want to know if you
have COVID because we have a good treatment. You want
to know if you have flu because we have an
okay treatment. And other than that, you really, we really
don't have treatments for most things, and so you really
don't need to test because you don't need to know.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I had, I had a good real I could.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
It almost felt, uh when I was when I was
in bed, and you know, it kind of rolled over.
It sounds weird, but I almost felt like there was
someone with a voice inside of me. It's the wheels
was so deep.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
It was almost like someone else's voice. I know. It wasn't,
don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And they were it was they were words associated with it,
but it was I was.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Talking to you.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, exactly. You think you think it was r sv
IF if again it's cast.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And yeah, and that's you know, December is appropriate timing
for that.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So and is that past? Is that past orally meaning
someone coughed.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Where you were and they and therefore and you breathed
it in. Whether it was at the store or at
work or something like that, it just happened. You contracted
it just like that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yes, exactly, drop it transmission. Somebody cough, you baked it in.
Maybe you touched something and touched your mouth or nose.
You know, it's for the most part, that's how those
respiratory viruses are all transmitted.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
My guest is doctor Shira d'erne. She is associated with
Tough's Medical Center. She's also associated with Tough University School
of Medicine. So we kind of hit on RS there.
I want to come back and talk about COVID. We'll
talk about the flu. We'll incorporate callers as we go along,
and I really appreciate you taking the time tonight because
(07:57):
I'm hoping that this will get people, uh intent, they'll
focus more. This is a time of year when we
still are outside, but this is the time of year
where you need to get your shot. I've taken my
flu shot already, high dose because I'm over a certain
age and all of that, so I feel pretty good
about the flu. We'll talk about COVID, we'll talk about
(08:19):
anything else, but we'll get to some phone calls right away.
I'll get to people early if that's okay. And again,
the doctor is not going to diagnose you know your situation.
You're not gonna be able to cough and tell, and
she's going to tell you we don't do that. But
any advice that you're seeking, she will provide it. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
six nine Back on Nightside right after these few messages.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
My guest is doctor Shirah Jerome. She is an infectious
disease specialist. She uh general Infectious Disease Specialist, Hospital Epidemiology.
She's the chief Infection Control Officer at Tough's Medicine and
Hospital Epidemiologist at the Toughts Medical Center, as well as
say Professor of Medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine,
(09:15):
which is a great medical school. As I said, Doctor Deerome,
my purpose tonight is to give our people an opportunity. Now,
this is an opportunity to ask you some questions. And
let's start off. We haven't even touched COVID yet and
we're going to get get to that, and we haven't
touched flu. We did a little bit of RSV. We
can always come back if people have questions. Let's go
to Tom in Pennsylvania. Tom, welcome you at first this hour,
(09:39):
first tonight with doctor Shirah Durrome.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
Go ahead, Tom, okay.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Doctor.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
My question to you was number one. I'm sixty five.
I've never had a flu shot. I was asked a
decade ago by my general practitioner in Massachusetts to get
a flu shot, and I explained to her, I said, doctor,
I spent my summers digging, going to the local dump
back when we burned trash, shooting rats with twenty twos.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Okay, Tom, we don't need a huge explanation here, let's
get to the question.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
All right.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
So I played in the trash, I got my knees straped.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
The point being is I wasn't I wasn't raised by
a helicopter parent.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I was a normal kid.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
So at age sixty five, I rarely get the few flute.
Do you think I should get it? Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Or no?
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, so great question. The hygiene theory would say that
the fact that you weren't raised, you know, in a
sterile environment, means you probably have a nice, strong immune
system and a healthy microbiome. Right, and you're intestine, you
probably have lots of good bacteria in there from all
the things you've been exposing yourself to, and that's good.
(10:57):
That being said, I hear a lot of people say
to me, I didn't get the flu shot until that
one year that I got the flu, and I never
wanted again because even though I lived. I felt like
I was going to die the entire time, and as
we know, many many people do die, people with no
(11:20):
underlying medical conditions. And so really the recommendation is for
everyone over the age of six months to get the
flu shot every year. You've probably been exposed to flu.
You may have had the flu. The immunity from the
illness that I've seen doesn't last very long, and the
disease can be deadly with no warning. So I get
(11:40):
my flu shot every single year. The one time when
I was a resident in the hospital and I was
too busy to get it, I really really regretted it
because I got super sick.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
All right, Well, the point being is I've had the
flu before several times in my past.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, tolerated.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Well, that's good talk, that's good. I'm glad you're tolerated.
You wouldn't be here with a coolers you didn't go ahead.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Doctor, that's right.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, No, the immunity from the flu doesn't last very long.
In fact, you know the reason that the latest campaign
says flu before Boo, which is get your flu shot
by Halloween is you know this is this is kind
of the right time to get it. Mid month end
of the month. You may some people prefer not to
get it too early because you really wanted to last
(12:28):
you until the end of the season, which usually ends
around the end of March April, sometimes goes until later
in May and June, and it can even wear off
by the end of the season. That's how sort of
short acting. Unfortunately, the flu shot is for a variety
of reasons, so you can't you can't bank on prior
episodes of flu infection protecting you in the future for
(12:48):
this illness.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Okay, thank you. And then the other question as far
as the uh shingles vaccine? Do uh doctor the issue
that do they get a kickback from whoever makes that?
Speaker 7 (13:06):
No?
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Yeah, no, Tom, let me tell you what thing answer
my question.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay, Tom, don't hang up. I'm going to tell you
one thing. My dad hid the shingles. It was probably
the most horrific experience of his life. And this is
a guy who spent two and a half years in
China Burman, India during World War Two. The point is
I got that shingle shot because I know what my
dad went through later in his life. As a friend, Tom,
(13:35):
I'm not a doctor, No, do I play one on
the radio, get the shingle shot.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, I will say. You know, my hospital loses money
every time it gives a single shot because we don't
get reimbursed by insurance from it. So you know, there
is a you know, a rumor going around the doctors
get money from getting shots, and that is not true.
In fact, often they lose money. I get my shingle
(14:01):
shot too. I was nervous about that dose number two
because I had had some friends that got side effects
from dose number two, and I was really happy that
I actually didn't get any And I'm now much less
worried about getting an episode of shingles that can lead
to chronic pain that can sometimes last forever. Wouldn't want that.
(14:22):
And we have this new you know, newer data that
shows that getting your shingle shot may decrease your risk
of dementia. So those are all really good, good reasons
to get it.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
We decrease you said, decrease your risk of prevent, not increase. Okay,
I want to make sure people heard that correctly. Okay, Tom,
you got some great medical advice. I hope you follow
through one. And I don't want to lose you as
a caller.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Okay, no, in conclusion, I've never had a social disease.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Goodness, well, that's that's really important to make that point.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Thank you, Thank you, Tom. We had the news here
at the bottom of the hour and uh.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
He'xcept one of my feisty callers, doctor Dern's that's you
probably excuse me. I figured out we'll continue right here
on Nightside, right after the news at the bottom of
the hour, and we're dealt with shingles here. I think
we're definitive on that little extra call that in a
little extra We hadn't planned on shingles, but we got you,
(15:23):
we got you to do that information as well. Coming
back on night Side right after the news break at
the bottom of the hour with doctor Shila Derone.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Doctor Shira Darne is my guest, doctor Dorone. I'm just
gonna keep going with the questions from callers, Uh, if
you don't mind, uh, and uh, I think it's I
think it's it's great because what happens is each one
of those callers probably represents five thousand people who want
to ask the same question.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Let's go to Claire in in Melrose. Hey, Claire.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
You are next on Nightside with doctor Shira durn Go
right ahead, Claire.
Speaker 8 (16:00):
Kay, thank you very much. Do so, the question I
have is for rs the is that a shot that
you should get annually or do you get it every
four years? As COVID you get it annually and flu?
Could you let me know that? And then I had
another question.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yeah, let's start with that. It is confusing And the
answer is, we don't know yet. So this is the
second season that RSV vaccine has been available, and we
don't need no one needs to get another one yet
because it's still working. And so you know, this is
kind of what happens with new shots is we have
(16:40):
to keep watching the people who have had it, especially
the people who have been in the clinical trials. You know,
they got it earlier than the general public, and we're
watching to see when their immunity wears off. And the
answer is it has waned a little bit. The immunity
has gone down a bit, but not to the point
where we need to recommend that anybody get a second one.
(17:02):
So get one and then wait till the news comes
out that says when to get it, and maybe it'll
be every three years. Every five years, every ten.
Speaker 8 (17:11):
We don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I just can jump in here for a second. I
didn't realize there was an RSV shot even available.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yeah I can, let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, I did my flu shot. Okay, which the extra
the high dose flu shot, does.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
That protect me against RSV?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Or is RSV a second second shot that I don't
think I've ever had one that I should consider.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, I know, you should consider it. So it is
now recommended, and this is new this year. The age
range has gone down and the recommendation is stronger. So
when it first came out, you know, it was talk
to your doctor about whether the RSV vaccine it's good
for you. Now that we have more information on how
well it's working and on the risk of side effects,
(17:57):
the recommendation is at all adults sixty years of age
and older get the RSV vaccine, and then adults fifty
to fifty nine who have underlying medical conditions to put
them at risk of severe RSB, which is really the
same underlying medical conditions that would qualify you for other
things like the COVID vaccine.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Okay, So, without without being too personal here, I think
we just talked about the infection what I called from
the other night, what I thought was an upper respiratory
infection and URI when I was really wheezing and went
and got last December an X ray, and we kind
of have concluded maybe I had RSV. Does that make
(18:40):
it even more important than I should be considering an
RSV shot this year?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah? I mean, you know what we've seen is that
you know, you caught a respiratory virus and it kind
of took you out for the count, right, and so
you have at your disposal of assuming you're over the
age of sixty, you have.
Speaker 8 (18:58):
At your well over too much.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
It's new RSV vaccine which can protect you. The other
adult population that we use this vaccine for now is
pregnant women, and we give it to pregnant women now
because the antibodies will transfer to their babies. And we
know that newborn babies are at the highest risk for
severe r SV disease with hospitalization and even deak, and
(19:26):
that newborn babies are too young to receive vaccines. Although
if the pregnant woman did not get the RSV vaccine,
we now also see we have all these new products
for r SV. We now also have a what we
call passive immunization. We have an immunoglobular treatment that essentially
immunizes newborn babies against RSP. So we have so much
(19:48):
in the arsenal now for this disease which was really
causing quite a bit of morbidity previously.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Okay, clear I stole some of your time, Go right ahead.
You have another question.
Speaker 8 (19:59):
Yeah, I have a a couple more questions. One is,
would it be possible for you to list the different
shots or injections and immunizations that people should get and
whether they're annually, bi annually, et cetera. Like we know
COVID get it every year, CLU get it every year.
I had an RSV last year, so it sounds like
I don't need to get it this year until they
(20:21):
say a new ones out get it? Like shingles? Should
you get that every that's a one and done?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I believe, I.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Think, yeah, exactly. So I think I wonder Dan, if
we can post the CDC's recommended vaccine schedule for adult.
That's the website you want to go to, and that's
going to have the vaccine, the vaccines for who should
get them and how many times or how often?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I think the best thing for us to do would
be to refer Claire and anyone else besides obviously talking
to their own doctor, because none of us can know
the specific Neither you and I and you're the only
one that matters here can know the specific circumstances that
anyone may have experienced. Their doctors would know that. But
it's just clear. Go to the CDC website, and I
(21:10):
think that any.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Organization schedule by age is what the page is called.
It's called just updated in August.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So I stepped on your I stepped in your audio there,
give the give clear in the audience that that site
one more.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Time DDC dot gov. And within that their website it's
called the Adult Immunization Schedule by Age, and it was
it was just updated in August twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, Claire, I hope that helps.
Speaker 8 (21:38):
Awesome, Great, Yeah, that's excellent.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Thank you very much, Thanks Claire. Great questions.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Let's keep rolling here, going to go to George in Bridgewater. George,
you're on with doctor Shirah Darron.
Speaker 9 (21:48):
Go right ahead, hello, doctor Shia. In June of nineteen.
Speaker 10 (21:58):
Twenty twenty four, I bought it an Apple Watch, and
in July I found by accident that my heart rate
was going only when I sleep somewhere between it has
to be for ten minutes, so they won't document it
between thirty and thirty five. And it was seventeen days
(22:18):
in a row. So you know, I sent that email
to Listening the seventeen days and they took me into
the VA.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And I don't know, George that this is doctor Deron's
area of expertise.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So let me let me jump in here for a second.
Speaker 9 (22:35):
Well, my question was just going to be if she
knew that if COVID was could be causing a slow
heart rate. I think if they call it Brady Cardier
and she doesn't know, that's fine, Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Let's see. Okay, you brought it back to COVID doctor Derone,
you can easily take a take a passing that question
because I think I think it's probably beyond the scope
of conversation tonight.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
But if you'd like to help George out, feel free.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
I mean, I also say that COVID can COVID infection
can affect the heart for sure, and it can cause
especially the heart muscle. And then you know, depending on
what your specialist at the via, your cardiologists, you know,
made as a diagnosis, they may be able to tell
you whether that condition is or is not potentially related
(23:23):
to the classic heart inflammation that we see from COVID
nineteen affection.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, George, that's okay, good.
Speaker 9 (23:32):
I really appreciate it. Doctor and Yan, thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
You're very welcome. George.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Let me get one more call in here before we
have got to go to break. We will go to
June in Providence, Rhode Island where we're bouncing around here, Pennsylvania,
Rhode Island in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Go ahead, June.
Speaker 6 (23:47):
Oh.
Speaker 11 (23:47):
Yes, my question was regarding RSV as well, but you've
answered it because you know I took my shot two
years ago for that, so I know I'm still okay.
But I just like to make a comment about Tom
and shingles. You stated how sickly your father was from it.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
He was absolutely miserable. He was painful, it was uncomfortable, miserable.
Speaker 11 (24:11):
Well, you can get it in your eyes as well,
and people can lose their sight. So I personally have
had my shingles shot as well.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Okay, good point.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, you can have very severe complications of shingles, absolutely,
so it's not just misery. It can be really life
changing in a terrible way.
Speaker 11 (24:31):
To just ask one other questions your advice about taking
the flu vaccine and the SHINK and the covid vaccine
together if you've never done it before and you're over.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Sixty, yeah, yeah, I mean generally, the consideration around whether
you want to take them at the same time or
space them out is that if.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
You get side effects.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
From both, you might feel more side effects because you
took two, you know, and if you but if you
space them out and you get side effects from both,
then you have to go through that twice. Those are
those you know, That's usually what I tell people to consider. Now,
some people said, but I never get that effects from
the Polueheather, I never get the side up side effects
from the covid vaccine, and then you certainly would want to,
(25:15):
you know, really, you know, take that convenience factor and
say I'll get them at the same time. Now there
is a state a new statement by the new FDA leadership,
you know, saying it it hasn't been They don't The
new FDA doesn't feel like there's been a well enough
controlled or large enough clinical trial to demonstrate the safety
(25:36):
and effectiveness of combining the flu vaccine with the covid vaccine.
At the same time, that being said, millions of people
do it every year, and we haven't seen any adverse
events from it or any real significant effect on effectiveness.
So it's really your personal choice.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
What clarification, if I could just make sure I understand
this correctly. A year ago, there was some hope or
speculation that the covid and flu vaccine would be combined
in one shot.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
That did not occur. Am I correct on That's that's right.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
It's not out yet, Okay, I think and hope that
it's still being studied. Then the new FDA leadership is
holding the vaccine companies to you know, a bit of
a higher standard than before, so those studies may take
longer now to compute.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Well, I don't mind let high standards. I like that.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
But when you said space amount, what is the truth?
It's not like take one on a Tuesday, in the
next one on Thursday. How how long a space is
recommended if someone's concerned about side effects and they're going to.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Get both shots.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, you know, really it's it's how long
do your side effects last? I mean, most people if
they do get side effects, they don't last more than
a day. So yes, you could do the second one
two days later if you want it.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Okay, but again each individual should use their best judgment. June,
great questions. Thank you so much.
Speaker 8 (27:08):
Okay, thank you, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
We will take a very quick break. My guest is
doctor Shira Dorone. She is with a Tough's Medical she's
a professor at Tough School of Medicine. She is answering
a wide variety of questions. And I hope that if
you want to jump on board, doctor Dorone will be leaving.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Us at ten o'clock.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I'm delighted and I appreciate the fact that she would
give us an hour tonight on top of our briefer
interview earlier this week. But to talk to listeners, that's
what is to me most important. So if you want
to get in right now, six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three
ten thirty. Coming right back after this quick commercial break.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
We're talking with doctor Shira Dorone.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
She's an infectious disease he's a specialist chief Infection Control
officer tough Medicine Hospital, epidemiologist at Toughts Medical Center, and
a professor of medicine at Toughs University. Let me try
to get a couple more in here. Let me go
to a David in drake it. David, you are on
with doctor Shirah Duron. Go righthead, David, Well.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Good evening. I wanted to talk about blood tests.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
And one of the components would be white blood cells.
What is the relationship? For example, I have a ten,
which I understand the range being four to eleven. Uh,
So I thought that ten was pretty good. Does that
put me in a good area?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Let me let me do this, David, David.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Let me just first of all, see if this is
an area that doctor Dorone is sufficially comfortable with that
she wants to answer answer a question because early talking
about infectious diseases, doctor Drone, is this an area that.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
We want to go down?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Yeah, I mean I can talk generally about how we
use white blood cell count and infectious diseases.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Okay, go ahead, data, Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry, doctor,
didn't mean to direct you. Once you let me step
out of the conversation.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Go ahead, question, I'm about them eleven and I thought
that was pretty good, and being a transplant patient on
immunosuppressant for ten years, I was very reluctant to take
the COVID shot. And at MGH in their infectious disease
(29:31):
department over there, they were sort of iffy about it too.
They said, well, we haven't experimented enough with transplantations to
know it's the COVID shot is not going to hurt
you rather than help you. So I never took it
and retired person. So I isolate. I don't mix, I
(29:53):
don't go to parties, I don't go in crowds, et cetera.
And I've been fine as far as COVID and flew
this concern since the transplant ten years ago. So I wondered,
do you think if that high for some reason, why
is it high? I don't know in my fine.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Okay, let's get let's let's David, let's let's try to
get to an answer here. First of all, congratulations in
being able to isolate, and that might have been one
of the benefits for for COVID. Actually, doctor droon, you
want to take again, We're a little bit off track.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Can't go ahead?
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Yeah, I mean, I'll just generally say the white blood
cell count is something that we infectious disease doctors use
to determine whether we think somebody has an active bacterial infection.
White blood cell kinds can go up when you have
a bacterial infection. It can go down when you have
a viral infection. It can go down when you have
a severe vecterial infection with sepsis. But as a you know,
(30:48):
when you're well, you know your white blood cell kind
is going to be your white blood cell count, and
you know as long as it's relatively within a normal
range or even a little bit higher or lower, it
doesn't necessar sssarily reflect anything about you or your ability
to fight infection. Now, transplant recipients are a prime candidate
(31:12):
for an annual COVID vaccine. Now, but when the vaccine
first came out, we didn't know, and you made this
maybe what you're talking about. When the vaccine first came out,
we didn't know would transplant recipients people who are heavily
immunosuppressed with the drugs that are designed to suppress your
immune system so you don't reject the organ or the
(31:33):
bone mir that you received. We didn't know if the
vaccine would work. We didn't know if it would allow
people like that to generate an immune response. And what
we did find and what we now do know, is
that they do generate an immune response. The vast, vast
majority of people who have had a transplant and people
who are on immunosuppress and medications in general, of which
there are so many these days, for so many of
(31:54):
the autoimmune diseases as well, do generate a good immune response,
meaning they re on well to the COVID vaccine and
helps to prevent severe infection. And so I would recommend
that somebody in your situation definitely get an annual COVID
vaccine and then maybe you don't have to isolate at
home as much.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
And then you know.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Of course, the other piece to that is we heard
when people were isolated, when everyone was trying to isolate
at home and avoid COVID, we heard so many stories.
But I did all the things. I stayed at home,
I never saw anybody, and I still got COVID because
that little bugger is hard to avoid.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
And I also think, and I've raised this before with
the doctor Doro, and that I think when they rolled
the COVID vaccine out. I think it was really mislabeled.
I think a lot of people made the assumption, and
I think the government even suggested back then, hey, get
the vaccine and you're going to be all set, kind
of like the polio vaccine, and I think they either.
I don't think they did intentionally, but I think that unintentionally,
(32:54):
the message was the messaging was not as clear as
it should have as it should have been.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Everybody had the right intentions, but the messaging was not
clear and not totally transparent. The idea behind the vaccine
is to prevent severe disease, and that's why this year
actually the messaging has finally really shifted. So we're up
until this year that the guidance has been for everyone
(33:24):
over the age of six months to get an annual
COVID vaccine, just like the recommendation for flu vaccine. And
this year, for the first time, that guidance is changing.
And that is really in appreciation of what you just said, Dan,
which is that you know, we don't want to overseell
our vaccines. That's not how you get the public's trust
(33:46):
in public health officials. And because the vaccine really hasn't
worked to prevent infection in a durable, long lasting way.
And because everyone in the country a sense has either
HAAD COVID or the vaccine or both multiple times, and
so that immunity community immunity is high, we're not seeing
(34:10):
as much severe disease, we're not seeing as much death,
and we can really revisit the recommendations, and so those
recommendations now and there's you know, there's a big mess
in the CDC, and there's been a big overhaul of
the Advisory Committee to the CDC. So Massachusetts came out
with guidelines that are based on professional societies and other
(34:32):
Northeastern state health officials, and the massachusettsuidelines, which align with
professional societies, are really we're gonna we're gonna recommend the
annual vaccine for high risk people this year.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
And hopefully whatever happens.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
We still don't know how how tough a season it
will be for COVID that you have to I think assume,
don't don't assume it's going to be it's going to
be easy. So protect yourselves, especially Ken David, I need
to get one more in here. Thank you for your call.
Best of luck with your fransplanted experience.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
Thank you, Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Let me go to Claire in Brookline. Claire the last caller.
We're tight on time. You've got to be direct. You're
on with doctor Shira Deron. Go right, hey, Claire.
Speaker 7 (35:12):
Thank you Dan, and thank you doctor Jerome. You've been
magnificent for the last five years on what you've been
telling us. You're so honest and so clear. I would
just want to thank you. As a retired nurse, I
greatly appreciate your communication. I hope someone didn't already ask
this program a question, but because I tuned in late.
(35:33):
But they're advertising a new kind of with a different
spike protein attachment for seniors from MODERNA. Do you can
you explain that one a little? Is it less it's
supposed to have less side effects? Or I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Let's see if doctor Deroon is familiar. If anyone's going
to be familiar with it would be here. I have
not heard of what you speak yourn.
Speaker 9 (36:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Isn't that interesting that it really came out quietly?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
So?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
Yeah, it is another version of Maderna's mRNA covid vaccine
and they they were able to better target that's bike
protein and use a lower dosage. It does not appear
(36:29):
to have a different side effect profile or less side effect,
but they have so far in clinical trials. They believe
that they get a better vaccine efficacy compared to the
older version of their vaccine, especially in people who are
(36:50):
over the age of sixty five. So both are available,
actually both are on the market, the old version of
the Maderna vaccine, but with the new formulation that is
better matched to circulating strengths. And this new m next bike,
the next generation Mondarna COVID vaccine.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Claire, thank you, thank you for the question. We're flat
out of time. Thank you so much. Doctor Doerome, thank
you very much as well. Let's give that CDC website
that you talked about. All the various vaccines are listed
with the recommendations. It is simply if you could run
that bias one more time.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Yeah, CDC dot com. In fact, at CDC dot com
slash vaccines, but you want to search CDC dot com
adult immunization schedule by age.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So perfect, adult immunization schedule by age. Thank you very
much for doing this. It's exactly what I hoped we
would accomplish tonight. And I know that there were lots
of people who got a lot of information out of
this this hour, and thank you very much for joining
us tonight.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
We'll talk again, I'm sure. Thank you so much. Okay,
bye bye.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Shivy Derome Professor of Medicine at Toughts University School of Medisine,
chief infection control officer at the tough at Tufts Medicine,
and a hospital epidemiologist, and delighted she joined us tonight.
We'll take a quick break and we'll come back and
we will change topics right after this
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WVS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, of course, the weather has turned a little bit
on the chili side, although I guess some warm weather
is expected in the next week or so, and you
could feel a nip in the air the last couple
of days.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We are in October.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's October second, and of course that I think should
remind all of us that with winter approaching, the cold
and flu season is approaching. And earlier this week we
had with us one of my favorite guests, doctor Shirah Drone,
who is an infectious disease she's the Chief Infection Control
Officer tough Medicine. She is a hospital epidemiologist at Tough's
(00:46):
Medical Center, and she's also a professor of medicine at
Toughs University School of Medicine. And I want to welcome
doctor Jerome back to Nightside. Welcome back, doctor, how are
you good?
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Thank you so much for having me well.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
When we would check earlier this week, I was a
little concerned that I was raising more questions than you
could answer. And I also thought that this is the
perfect time of year to give my listeners an opportunity
to talk to you and ask you about what they
should or should not be doing this winter as we
(01:22):
get ready for the cold and flu season. And you know,
there's so many pitfalls that all of us are going
to be facing just the regular flu. I want to
talk about that, I want to talk about IRSV, certainly
want to talk about COVID, And at the same time,
I want to give people an opportunity to call in
and describe this set of circumstances, meaning their age and
(01:47):
what medical circumstances. They don't have to tell us everything,
but if just so, they need to be made aware
of what is available and what they should take advantage of.
So we just start off for the fun of it here,
and we don't prep questions here, and I did you
were I'd never asked you to send me a whole
(02:07):
bunch of questions. So I'm just going to sort of
take the place of some of the listeners, and I
hope that those who have feeled they had better questions
will will join the conversation.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Let's start off with COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
What are we You know, we've always been able to
kind of predict what sort of a flu season it's.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Going to be.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Maybe we'll start with flu because what happens in the
Southern hemisphere when it's winter for them in the summertime,
if my memory serves, doesn't that give us some guidance
as to what might happen in the Northern hemisphere during
our winter.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah, that's right. We can use what we're seeing in
the Southern hemisphere during our summer there winter sometimes. You know,
we can always be thrown per loop because the virus,
the flu virus MU takes very quickly. But we can
use that as a as a predictor of sort to
try to determine whether we're going to have a bad
(03:02):
flu season. And we did have a really bad flu
season last year. I haven't heard that the Southern hemisphere
got particularly wall up to this past winter. So let's
cross our fingers and hope that this will be a
better one for flu.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Why is there that relationship obviously with air travel and
a lot of people you know, go to each we
fly around the world. I get that, But why is
it that this seems to be such a predictive value
in what happens in the Southern hemisphere that's likely coming
(03:41):
our way. I know it doesn't always work, okay, but
what causes that is it simply the interchange of modern
day travel.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You know, you're right, people are traveling all the time,
all year long. So why is it that we just
don't have the flu everywhere all at once. It's a
very good question. It is something about the winter, and
I think, right, so it's it's we have flu during
our winter and they have flu during their winter. But
(04:12):
it is probably not as simple as temperature, because there's
still a flu season in the southern northern hemisphere, right,
I mean, Florida still has a flu season, and it's
warm all year and it may so it's it's temperature,
but not only temperature. It's maybe people spending more time inside.
But again Florida, people spend time outside in the winter.
(04:35):
So it's it's actually not well understood after all these centuries.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Intrianza, you said that last winter was a tough flu season.
I remember a little after Christmas, I was dealing with
a heck of a weeze in my chest and discomfort,
and I actually went and got a chest X ray
at the advice of my doctor. I don't think that
they ever diagnosed what I had, but I was testing
(05:05):
myself for COVID, which was coming back negative, but I
felt miserable.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Was I simply dealing with what was the flu season
last year?
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
I mean was your test x right consistent with pneumonia?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, no, they checked me for that and there was
no pneumonia.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, but right, So, you know, one of the hard
things is we can't tell by looking at you what
respiratory virus you have. I mean there are a few
hints here and there. Wheezing can sometimes be more of
a sign of RSD infection. Flu typically hits you like
(05:45):
a ton of bricks from out of the blues, So
there are some clues, but without testing, you don't know.
And generally you don't have to do a test for
these viruses. We got so used to COVID tests tested
the slightest sign of illness, and that was because we
were doing contact chasing and isolation and quarantine. Now that
we're not doing those things, testing is not as important
(06:08):
unless you're someone who's at high risk for progressing to
severe disease. And then you want to know if you
have COVID because we have a good treatment. You want
to know if you have flu because we have an
okay treatment. And other than that, you really, we really
don't have treatments for most things, and so you really
don't need to test because you don't need to know.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I had, I had a good real I could.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
It almost felt, uh when I was when I was
in bed, and you know, it kind of rolled over.
It sounds weird, but I almost felt like there was
someone with a voice inside of me. It's the wheels
was so deep.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
It was almost like someone else's voice. I know. It wasn't,
don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And they were it was they were words associated with it,
but it was I was.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Talking to you.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, exactly. You think you think it was r sv
IF if again it's cast.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And yeah, and that's you know, December is appropriate timing
for that.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So and is that past? Is that past orally meaning
someone coughed.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Where you were and they and therefore and you breathed
it in. Whether it was at the store or at
work or something like that, it just happened. You contracted
it just like that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yes, exactly, drop it transmission. Somebody cough, you baked it in.
Maybe you touched something and touched your mouth or nose.
You know, it's for the most part, that's how those
respiratory viruses are all transmitted.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
My guest is doctor Shira d'erne. She is associated with
Tough's Medical Center. She's also associated with Tough University School
of Medicine. So we kind of hit on RS there.
I want to come back and talk about COVID. We'll
talk about the flu. We'll incorporate callers as we go along,
and I really appreciate you taking the time tonight because
(07:57):
I'm hoping that this will get people, uh intent, they'll
focus more. This is a time of year when we
still are outside, but this is the time of year
where you need to get your shot. I've taken my
flu shot already, high dose because I'm over a certain
age and all of that, so I feel pretty good
about the flu. We'll talk about COVID, we'll talk about
(08:19):
anything else, but we'll get to some phone calls right away.
I'll get to people early if that's okay. And again,
the doctor is not going to diagnose you know your situation.
You're not gonna be able to cough and tell, and
she's going to tell you we don't do that. But
any advice that you're seeking, she will provide it. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
six nine Back on Nightside right after these few messages.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
My guest is doctor Shirah Jerome. She is an infectious
disease specialist. She uh general Infectious Disease Specialist, Hospital Epidemiology.
She's the chief Infection Control Officer at Tough's Medicine and
Hospital Epidemiologist at the Toughts Medical Center, as well as
say Professor of Medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine,
(09:15):
which is a great medical school. As I said, Doctor Deerome,
my purpose tonight is to give our people an opportunity. Now,
this is an opportunity to ask you some questions. And
let's start off. We haven't even touched COVID yet and
we're going to get get to that, and we haven't
touched flu. We did a little bit of RSV. We
can always come back if people have questions. Let's go
to Tom in Pennsylvania. Tom, welcome you at first this hour,
(09:39):
first tonight with doctor Shirah Durrome.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
Go ahead, Tom, okay.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Doctor.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
My question to you was number one. I'm sixty five.
I've never had a flu shot. I was asked a
decade ago by my general practitioner in Massachusetts to get
a flu shot, and I explained to her, I said, doctor,
I spent my summers digging, going to the local dump
back when we burned trash, shooting rats with twenty twos.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Okay, Tom, we don't need a huge explanation here, let's
get to the question.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
All right.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
So I played in the trash, I got my knees straped.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
The point being is I wasn't I wasn't raised by
a helicopter parent.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I was a normal kid.
Speaker 6 (10:26):
So at age sixty five, I rarely get the few flute.
Do you think I should get it? Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Or no?
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, so great question. The hygiene theory would say that
the fact that you weren't raised, you know, in a
sterile environment, means you probably have a nice, strong immune
system and a healthy microbiome. Right, and you're intestine, you
probably have lots of good bacteria in there from all
the things you've been exposing yourself to, and that's good.
(10:57):
That being said, I hear a lot of people say
to me, I didn't get the flu shot until that
one year that I got the flu, and I never
wanted again because even though I lived. I felt like
I was going to die the entire time, and as
we know, many many people do die, people with no
(11:20):
underlying medical conditions. And so really the recommendation is for
everyone over the age of six months to get the
flu shot every year. You've probably been exposed to flu.
You may have had the flu. The immunity from the
illness that I've seen doesn't last very long, and the
disease can be deadly with no warning. So I get
(11:40):
my flu shot every single year. The one time when
I was a resident in the hospital and I was
too busy to get it, I really really regretted it
because I got super sick.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
All right, Well, the point being is I've had the
flu before several times in my past.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, tolerated.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Well, that's good talk, that's good. I'm glad you're tolerated.
You wouldn't be here with a coolers you didn't go ahead.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Doctor, that's right.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Yeah, No, the immunity from the flu doesn't last very long.
In fact, you know the reason that the latest campaign
says flu before Boo, which is get your flu shot
by Halloween is you know this is this is kind
of the right time to get it. Mid month end
of the month. You may some people prefer not to
get it too early because you really wanted to last
(12:28):
you until the end of the season, which usually ends
around the end of March April, sometimes goes until later
in May and June, and it can even wear off
by the end of the season. That's how sort of
short acting. Unfortunately, the flu shot is for a variety
of reasons, so you can't you can't bank on prior
episodes of flu infection protecting you in the future for
(12:48):
this illness.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Okay, thank you. And then the other question as far
as the uh shingles vaccine? Do uh doctor the issue
that do they get a kickback from whoever makes that?
Speaker 7 (13:06):
No?
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Yeah, no, Tom, let me tell you what thing answer
my question.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay, Tom, don't hang up. I'm going to tell you
one thing. My dad hid the shingles. It was probably
the most horrific experience of his life. And this is
a guy who spent two and a half years in
China Burman, India during World War Two. The point is
I got that shingle shot because I know what my
dad went through later in his life. As a friend, Tom,
(13:35):
I'm not a doctor, No, do I play one on
the radio, get the shingle shot.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, I will say. You know, my hospital loses money
every time it gives a single shot because we don't
get reimbursed by insurance from it. So you know, there
is a you know, a rumor going around the doctors
get money from getting shots, and that is not true.
In fact, often they lose money. I get my shingle
(14:01):
shot too. I was nervous about that dose number two
because I had had some friends that got side effects
from dose number two, and I was really happy that
I actually didn't get any And I'm now much less
worried about getting an episode of shingles that can lead
to chronic pain that can sometimes last forever. Wouldn't want that.
(14:22):
And we have this new you know, newer data that
shows that getting your shingle shot may decrease your risk
of dementia. So those are all really good, good reasons
to get it.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
We decrease you said, decrease your risk of prevent, not increase. Okay,
I want to make sure people heard that correctly. Okay, Tom,
you got some great medical advice. I hope you follow
through one. And I don't want to lose you as
a caller.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Okay, no, in conclusion, I've never had a social disease.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Goodness, well, that's that's really important to make that point.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Thank you, Thank you, Tom. We had the news here
at the bottom of the hour and uh.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
He'xcept one of my feisty callers, doctor Dern's that's you
probably excuse me. I figured out we'll continue right here
on Nightside, right after the news at the bottom of
the hour, and we're dealt with shingles here. I think
we're definitive on that little extra call that in a
little extra We hadn't planned on shingles, but we got you,
(15:23):
we got you to do that information as well. Coming
back on night Side right after the news break at
the bottom of the hour with doctor Shila Derone.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Doctor Shira Darne is my guest, doctor Dorone. I'm just
gonna keep going with the questions from callers, Uh, if
you don't mind, uh, and uh, I think it's I
think it's it's great because what happens is each one
of those callers probably represents five thousand people who want
to ask the same question.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Let's go to Claire in in Melrose. Hey, Claire.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
You are next on Nightside with doctor Shira durn Go
right ahead, Claire.
Speaker 8 (16:00):
Kay, thank you very much. Do so, the question I
have is for rs the is that a shot that
you should get annually or do you get it every
four years? As COVID you get it annually and flu?
Could you let me know that? And then I had
another question.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yeah, let's start with that. It is confusing And the
answer is, we don't know yet. So this is the
second season that RSV vaccine has been available, and we
don't need no one needs to get another one yet
because it's still working. And so you know, this is
kind of what happens with new shots is we have
(16:40):
to keep watching the people who have had it, especially
the people who have been in the clinical trials. You know,
they got it earlier than the general public, and we're
watching to see when their immunity wears off. And the
answer is it has waned a little bit. The immunity
has gone down a bit, but not to the point
where we need to recommend that anybody get a second one.
(17:02):
So get one and then wait till the news comes
out that says when to get it, and maybe it'll
be every three years. Every five years, every ten.
Speaker 8 (17:11):
We don't know yet.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I just can jump in here for a second. I
didn't realize there was an RSV shot even available.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yeah I can, let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, I did my flu shot. Okay, which the extra
the high dose flu shot, does.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
That protect me against RSV?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Or is RSV a second second shot that I don't
think I've ever had one that I should consider.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, I know, you should consider it. So it is
now recommended, and this is new this year. The age
range has gone down and the recommendation is stronger. So
when it first came out, you know, it was talk
to your doctor about whether the RSV vaccine it's good
for you. Now that we have more information on how
well it's working and on the risk of side effects,
(17:57):
the recommendation is at all adults sixty years of age
and older get the RSV vaccine, and then adults fifty
to fifty nine who have underlying medical conditions to put
them at risk of severe RSB, which is really the
same underlying medical conditions that would qualify you for other
things like the COVID vaccine.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Okay, So, without without being too personal here, I think
we just talked about the infection what I called from
the other night, what I thought was an upper respiratory
infection and URI when I was really wheezing and went
and got last December an X ray, and we kind
of have concluded maybe I had RSV. Does that make
(18:40):
it even more important than I should be considering an
RSV shot this year?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah? I mean, you know what we've seen is that
you know, you caught a respiratory virus and it kind
of took you out for the count, right, and so
you have at your disposal of assuming you're over the
age of sixty, you have.
Speaker 8 (18:58):
At your well over too much.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
It's new RSV vaccine which can protect you. The other
adult population that we use this vaccine for now is
pregnant women, and we give it to pregnant women now
because the antibodies will transfer to their babies. And we
know that newborn babies are at the highest risk for
severe r SV disease with hospitalization and even deak, and
(19:26):
that newborn babies are too young to receive vaccines. Although
if the pregnant woman did not get the RSV vaccine,
we now also see we have all these new products
for r SV. We now also have a what we
call passive immunization. We have an immunoglobular treatment that essentially
immunizes newborn babies against RSP. So we have so much
(19:48):
in the arsenal now for this disease which was really
causing quite a bit of morbidity previously.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Okay, clear I stole some of your time, Go right ahead.
You have another question.
Speaker 8 (19:59):
Yeah, I have a a couple more questions. One is,
would it be possible for you to list the different
shots or injections and immunizations that people should get and
whether they're annually, bi annually, et cetera. Like we know
COVID get it every year, CLU get it every year.
I had an RSV last year, so it sounds like
I don't need to get it this year until they
(20:21):
say a new ones out get it? Like shingles? Should
you get that every that's a one and done?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I believe, I.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Think, yeah, exactly. So I think I wonder Dan, if
we can post the CDC's recommended vaccine schedule for adult.
That's the website you want to go to, and that's
going to have the vaccine, the vaccines for who should
get them and how many times or how often?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I think the best thing for us to do would
be to refer Claire and anyone else besides obviously talking
to their own doctor, because none of us can know
the specific Neither you and I and you're the only
one that matters here can know the specific circumstances that
anyone may have experienced. Their doctors would know that. But
it's just clear. Go to the CDC website, and I
(21:10):
think that any.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Organization schedule by age is what the page is called.
It's called just updated in August.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So I stepped on your I stepped in your audio there,
give the give clear in the audience that that site
one more.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Time DDC dot gov. And within that their website it's
called the Adult Immunization Schedule by Age, and it was
it was just updated in August twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, Claire, I hope that helps.
Speaker 8 (21:38):
Awesome, Great, Yeah, that's excellent.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Thank you very much, Thanks Claire. Great questions.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Let's keep rolling here, going to go to George in Bridgewater. George,
you're on with doctor Shirah Darron.
Speaker 9 (21:48):
Go right ahead, hello, doctor Shia. In June of nineteen.
Speaker 10 (21:58):
Twenty twenty four, I bought it an Apple Watch, and
in July I found by accident that my heart rate
was going only when I sleep somewhere between it has
to be for ten minutes, so they won't document it
between thirty and thirty five. And it was seventeen days
(22:18):
in a row. So you know, I sent that email
to Listening the seventeen days and they took me into
the VA.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And I don't know, George that this is doctor Deron's
area of expertise.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So let me let me jump in here for a second.
Speaker 9 (22:35):
Well, my question was just going to be if she
knew that if COVID was could be causing a slow
heart rate. I think if they call it Brady Cardier
and she doesn't know, that's fine, Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Let's see. Okay, you brought it back to COVID doctor Derone,
you can easily take a take a passing that question
because I think I think it's probably beyond the scope
of conversation tonight.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
But if you'd like to help George out, feel free.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
I mean, I also say that COVID can COVID infection
can affect the heart for sure, and it can cause
especially the heart muscle. And then you know, depending on
what your specialist at the via, your cardiologists, you know,
made as a diagnosis, they may be able to tell
you whether that condition is or is not potentially related
(23:23):
to the classic heart inflammation that we see from COVID
nineteen affection.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, George, that's okay, good.
Speaker 9 (23:32):
I really appreciate it. Doctor and Yan, thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
You're very welcome. George.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Let me get one more call in here before we
have got to go to break. We will go to
June in Providence, Rhode Island where we're bouncing around here, Pennsylvania,
Rhode Island in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Go ahead, June.
Speaker 6 (23:47):
Oh.
Speaker 11 (23:47):
Yes, my question was regarding RSV as well, but you've
answered it because you know I took my shot two
years ago for that, so I know I'm still okay.
But I just like to make a comment about Tom
and shingles. You stated how sickly your father was from it.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
He was absolutely miserable. He was painful, it was uncomfortable, miserable.
Speaker 11 (24:11):
Well, you can get it in your eyes as well,
and people can lose their sight. So I personally have
had my shingles shot as well.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Okay, good point.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, you can have very severe complications of shingles, absolutely,
so it's not just misery. It can be really life
changing in a terrible way.
Speaker 11 (24:31):
To just ask one other questions your advice about taking
the flu vaccine and the SHINK and the covid vaccine
together if you've never done it before and you're over.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Sixty, yeah, yeah, I mean generally, the consideration around whether
you want to take them at the same time or
space them out is that if.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
You get side effects.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
From both, you might feel more side effects because you
took two, you know, and if you but if you
space them out and you get side effects from both,
then you have to go through that twice. Those are
those you know, That's usually what I tell people to consider. Now,
some people said, but I never get that effects from
the Polueheather, I never get the side up side effects
from the covid vaccine, and then you certainly would want to,
(25:15):
you know, really, you know, take that convenience factor and
say I'll get them at the same time. Now there
is a state a new statement by the new FDA leadership,
you know, saying it it hasn't been They don't The
new FDA doesn't feel like there's been a well enough
controlled or large enough clinical trial to demonstrate the safety
(25:36):
and effectiveness of combining the flu vaccine with the covid vaccine.
At the same time, that being said, millions of people
do it every year, and we haven't seen any adverse
events from it or any real significant effect on effectiveness.
So it's really your personal choice.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
What clarification, if I could just make sure I understand
this correctly. A year ago, there was some hope or
speculation that the covid and flu vaccine would be combined
in one shot.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
That did not occur. Am I correct on That's that's right.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
It's not out yet, Okay, I think and hope that
it's still being studied. Then the new FDA leadership is
holding the vaccine companies to you know, a bit of
a higher standard than before, so those studies may take
longer now to compute.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Well, I don't mind let high standards. I like that.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
But when you said space amount, what is the truth?
It's not like take one on a Tuesday, in the
next one on Thursday. How how long a space is
recommended if someone's concerned about side effects and they're going to.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Get both shots.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, you know, really it's it's how long
do your side effects last? I mean, most people if
they do get side effects, they don't last more than
a day. So yes, you could do the second one
two days later if you want it.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Okay, but again each individual should use their best judgment. June,
great questions. Thank you so much.
Speaker 8 (27:08):
Okay, thank you, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
We will take a very quick break. My guest is
doctor Shira Dorone. She is with a Tough's Medical she's
a professor at Tough School of Medicine. She is answering
a wide variety of questions. And I hope that if
you want to jump on board, doctor Dorone will be leaving.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Us at ten o'clock.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I'm delighted and I appreciate the fact that she would
give us an hour tonight on top of our briefer
interview earlier this week. But to talk to listeners, that's
what is to me most important. So if you want
to get in right now, six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three
ten thirty. Coming right back after this quick commercial break.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
We're talking with doctor Shira Dorone.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
She's an infectious disease he's a specialist chief Infection Control
officer tough Medicine Hospital, epidemiologist at Toughts Medical Center, and
a professor of medicine at Toughs University. Let me try
to get a couple more in here. Let me go
to a David in drake it. David, you are on
with doctor Shirah Duron. Go righthead, David, Well.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
Good evening. I wanted to talk about blood tests.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (28:24):
And one of the components would be white blood cells.
What is the relationship? For example, I have a ten,
which I understand the range being four to eleven. Uh,
So I thought that ten was pretty good. Does that
put me in a good area?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Let me let me do this, David, David.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Let me just first of all, see if this is
an area that doctor Dorone is sufficially comfortable with that
she wants to answer answer a question because early talking
about infectious diseases, doctor Drone, is this an area that.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
We want to go down?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Yeah, I mean I can talk generally about how we
use white blood cell count and infectious diseases.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Okay, go ahead, data, Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry, doctor,
didn't mean to direct you. Once you let me step
out of the conversation.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Go ahead, question, I'm about them eleven and I thought
that was pretty good, and being a transplant patient on
immunosuppressant for ten years, I was very reluctant to take
the COVID shot. And at MGH in their infectious disease
(29:31):
department over there, they were sort of iffy about it too.
They said, well, we haven't experimented enough with transplantations to
know it's the COVID shot is not going to hurt
you rather than help you. So I never took it
and retired person. So I isolate. I don't mix, I
(29:53):
don't go to parties, I don't go in crowds, et cetera.
And I've been fine as far as COVID and flew
this concern since the transplant ten years ago. So I wondered,
do you think if that high for some reason, why
is it high? I don't know in my fine.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Okay, let's get let's let's David, let's let's try to
get to an answer here. First of all, congratulations in
being able to isolate, and that might have been one
of the benefits for for COVID. Actually, doctor droon, you
want to take again, We're a little bit off track.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Can't go ahead?
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Yeah, I mean, I'll just generally say the white blood
cell count is something that we infectious disease doctors use
to determine whether we think somebody has an active bacterial infection.
White blood cell kinds can go up when you have
a bacterial infection. It can go down when you have
a viral infection. It can go down when you have
a severe vecterial infection with sepsis. But as a you know,
(30:48):
when you're well, you know your white blood cell kind
is going to be your white blood cell count, and
you know as long as it's relatively within a normal
range or even a little bit higher or lower, it
doesn't necessar sssarily reflect anything about you or your ability
to fight infection. Now, transplant recipients are a prime candidate
(31:12):
for an annual COVID vaccine. Now, but when the vaccine
first came out, we didn't know, and you made this
maybe what you're talking about. When the vaccine first came out,
we didn't know would transplant recipients people who are heavily
immunosuppressed with the drugs that are designed to suppress your
immune system so you don't reject the organ or the
(31:33):
bone mir that you received. We didn't know if the
vaccine would work. We didn't know if it would allow
people like that to generate an immune response. And what
we did find and what we now do know, is
that they do generate an immune response. The vast, vast
majority of people who have had a transplant and people
who are on immunosuppress and medications in general, of which
there are so many these days, for so many of
(31:54):
the autoimmune diseases as well, do generate a good immune response,
meaning they re on well to the COVID vaccine and
helps to prevent severe infection. And so I would recommend
that somebody in your situation definitely get an annual COVID
vaccine and then maybe you don't have to isolate at
home as much.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
And then you know.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Of course, the other piece to that is we heard
when people were isolated, when everyone was trying to isolate
at home and avoid COVID, we heard so many stories.
But I did all the things. I stayed at home,
I never saw anybody, and I still got COVID because
that little bugger is hard to avoid.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
And I also think, and I've raised this before with
the doctor Doro, and that I think when they rolled
the COVID vaccine out. I think it was really mislabeled.
I think a lot of people made the assumption, and
I think the government even suggested back then, hey, get
the vaccine and you're going to be all set, kind
of like the polio vaccine, and I think they either.
I don't think they did intentionally, but I think that unintentionally,
(32:54):
the message was the messaging was not as clear as
it should have as it should have been.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Everybody had the right intentions, but the messaging was not
clear and not totally transparent. The idea behind the vaccine
is to prevent severe disease, and that's why this year
actually the messaging has finally really shifted. So we're up
until this year that the guidance has been for everyone
(33:24):
over the age of six months to get an annual
COVID vaccine, just like the recommendation for flu vaccine. And
this year, for the first time, that guidance is changing.
And that is really in appreciation of what you just said, Dan,
which is that you know, we don't want to overseell
our vaccines. That's not how you get the public's trust
(33:46):
in public health officials. And because the vaccine really hasn't
worked to prevent infection in a durable, long lasting way.
And because everyone in the country a sense has either
HAAD COVID or the vaccine or both multiple times, and
so that immunity community immunity is high, we're not seeing
(34:10):
as much severe disease, we're not seeing as much death,
and we can really revisit the recommendations, and so those
recommendations now and there's you know, there's a big mess
in the CDC, and there's been a big overhaul of
the Advisory Committee to the CDC. So Massachusetts came out
with guidelines that are based on professional societies and other
(34:32):
Northeastern state health officials, and the massachusettsuidelines, which align with
professional societies, are really we're gonna we're gonna recommend the
annual vaccine for high risk people this year.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
And hopefully whatever happens.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
We still don't know how how tough a season it
will be for COVID that you have to I think assume,
don't don't assume it's going to be it's going to
be easy. So protect yourselves, especially Ken David, I need
to get one more in here. Thank you for your call.
Best of luck with your fransplanted experience.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
Thank you, Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Let me go to Claire in Brookline. Claire the last caller.
We're tight on time. You've got to be direct. You're
on with doctor Shira Deron. Go right, hey, Claire.
Speaker 7 (35:12):
Thank you Dan, and thank you doctor Jerome. You've been
magnificent for the last five years on what you've been
telling us. You're so honest and so clear. I would
just want to thank you. As a retired nurse, I
greatly appreciate your communication. I hope someone didn't already ask
this program a question, but because I tuned in late.
(35:33):
But they're advertising a new kind of with a different
spike protein attachment for seniors from MODERNA. Do you can
you explain that one a little? Is it less it's
supposed to have less side effects? Or I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Let's see if doctor Deroon is familiar. If anyone's going
to be familiar with it would be here. I have
not heard of what you speak yourn.
Speaker 9 (36:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Isn't that interesting that it really came out quietly?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
So?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
Yeah, it is another version of Maderna's mRNA covid vaccine
and they they were able to better target that's bike
protein and use a lower dosage. It does not appear
(36:29):
to have a different side effect profile or less side effect,
but they have so far in clinical trials. They believe
that they get a better vaccine efficacy compared to the
older version of their vaccine, especially in people who are
(36:50):
over the age of sixty five. So both are available,
actually both are on the market, the old version of
the Maderna vaccine, but with the new formulation that is
better matched to circulating strengths. And this new m next bike,
the next generation Mondarna COVID vaccine.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Claire, thank you, thank you for the question. We're flat
out of time. Thank you so much. Doctor Doerome, thank
you very much as well. Let's give that CDC website
that you talked about. All the various vaccines are listed
with the recommendations. It is simply if you could run
that bias one more time.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Yeah, CDC dot com. In fact, at CDC dot com
slash vaccines, but you want to search CDC dot com
adult immunization schedule by age.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So perfect, adult immunization schedule by age. Thank you very
much for doing this. It's exactly what I hoped we
would accomplish tonight. And I know that there were lots
of people who got a lot of information out of
this this hour, and thank you very much for joining
us tonight.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
We'll talk again, I'm sure. Thank you so much. Okay,
bye bye.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Shivy Derome Professor of Medicine at Toughts University School of Medisine,
chief infection control officer at the tough at Tufts Medicine,
and a hospital epidemiologist, and delighted she joined us tonight.
We'll take a quick break and we'll come back and
we will change topics right after this
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