August 22, 2024 • 23 mins
The battle over Boston Bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s death sentence continues. U.S. District Court Judge George O’Toole, who proceeded over Tsarnaev’s death penalty case, is in the midst of investigating whether two jurors were biased during the 2015 trial. The Bomber’s defense attorneys are pushing for the death penalty to get thrown out and are seeking a recusal for Judge O’Toole, who they claim made comments about the case on podcasts and during public events. Is justice-delayed justice denied?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's nice with I'll you easy Boston's video.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I guess it is my good friend in many ways.
Mentor Harvey Silverglay, and we are talking about a situation
in Boston where the Boston bomber too, I choose not
to use his name. His lawyers now are filing another
appeal to get him out from underneath the Dan McLean
(00:29):
sword of the death penalty. And some conversation has come
up about a supermax prison in Colorado. Harvey, I don't
know if you've ever been there or not. I know
little about it. I've never been there. Tell us what
your understanding of it is, because you say that it
is worse than the death penalty.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
The supermax prisons have the innate in isolation twenty three
hours a day. There's only one hour a day when
they are allowed out in the yard with other inmates.
I don't know how anybody stays sane in the supermax prison.
Maybe they don't. There have been a tax on a
(01:10):
supermax prism on the ground that it constant it is
crueler unusual punishment that has not yet prevailed. But I
wouldn't be surprised if the composition of the Supreme court
were to change to a more liberal court, that argument
might prevail one of these days. As you know that
these the subjective cultrucial arguments change over generations. It is
(01:35):
worse than death in the opinion of the many people,
including myself.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Right, But I think I was about to make that point.
Do they they have visitors? Correct? Family members?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yes, you can have visitors and three meals a day,
but the isolation drives some of them quite crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
They have access to televisions, yes, they do so radios.
I mean we could have him listening to our show tonight.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Are they do they have access to would like to
have a life where or you do all day is
watch television? You'd go crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
A lot of my friends do that. Actually, some of
my friends only watch watch CNN from morning to night,
and some of my friends watch Fox News. And I'm
trying to get him to me. Let's let's keep going here, Harvey.
We got a bunch of calls and I'm enjoying the conversation.
I hope you are. I appreciate your time. Let's go
(02:40):
next to Mark in Cambridge. Okay, Harvey, Marks from Cambridge,
So maybe.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I thank your welcome.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And I'm gonna be.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
A bench.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
By the way, I'm having trouble hearing you, and if
I'm having trouble Harvey as well, are you on a speaker? Photo?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So sort, I just think it off.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Do me a favorite kind of clean up Mark's audio there, Okay,
I don't want to lose him. We'll bring him back.
Let's go in the meantime to Bob and rain him. Bob,
hopefully your audio is a little better than Mark.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Go ahead, Bob, all right, I'll try. Hi, Dan, Hi, Harvey.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Ado, go right ahead, Dan.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
I think I'm with you one thousand percent on this one.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
You're a brave Dan, and and do your battle with
Harvey civic like, go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
As a human and thinking from the victim's point of view,
I don't think I could sleep at night knowing that
the person that perpetrated whatever the horrendous crime did my
loved one is still breathing the air and eating food.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And watching TV.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
And I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. And again,
I think it goes back to what about the victims here?
I mean, there's several victims when one person is murdered
by another individual, and in the case of this case,
in Boston. Why why is this guy still breathing the air?
(04:26):
And what about the poor I can't remember? Is that
the Richard family?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But by the way, just so you know, I believe
that his parents oppose the imposition of the death penalty,
and they would support Harvey's argument.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I'm surprised at that because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
They must be they.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Must be, no, I assure you, right, but I don't know.
I mean, they must be better the people than me
or whatever. But I could never I could never fail
that way. And the other thing is is I think
the death penalty could work as a deterrent if it
was done swiftly instead of waiting thirty years to put
(05:16):
these creeps to death. Okay, I mean it's it's.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Let me get let me let me give Let me
give Harvey a chance to persuade you. I don't think
he's going to. But Harvey, is there any point that
you feel you'd like to make to what Bob.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Had to say, Well, the reason that these cases go
on so long is precisely because the result, if the
result is death, it's it's irremediable. You can't correct the
mistake afterwards. So that's another rub you know, a Zarnaia
would have been, you know, just serving his sentence. If
(05:52):
this case were over, and this is no picnic to
be in a supermax prison, then some of course there's
all to the expenses and an enormous amount of resources
going into this. It could be at the end the
criminal justice system is screaming for more resources and he
were wasting all this money and time on a death
(06:14):
penalty case.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
There are although those those are all the arguments that
we've heard for years. And I sometimes cite the case,
Harvey of the doctor Phillips' family in Connecticut. The guys
who went in tied him up, raped and burned his
daughters to death by pouring gasolene. And they were you know,
(06:36):
the you're familiar the case, and they were actually caught
running away the police that surrounded the house. And so
I mean, there are there are horrible, horrific crimes, and
I don't know that we will live. Let me ask
you one question, and Bob, I don't mean to steal
your time, but just real, one quick question, Harvey, you're
convinced that from a an actual areial point of view
(06:56):
or a statistical point of view, that in view of
the number of people that the Innocence Project has shown
through DNA testing and some new developments, people who have
been freed from prison. Why is it that the Innocence
Project has not been able to produce more as I'm
not familiar with the case that they have produced, by
(07:17):
the way, and I have to go read it. But
they've only, as I understand to produced one case in
which they say they are certain that an innocent person
was executed. What is the reason why they have not
produced more examples of innocent people being executed?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Because because by and large, the system convicts guilty people
and not innocent people by and large. And that's absolutely true.
But no human system is perfect. And the Innocence Part
has proven that there is no doubt in my mind
that there are other innocent people who are on death
(07:52):
row and other people who have been executed. No doubt
in my mind who they are would require an enormous
amount of resources to find out.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
The project was trying to find that out or am
I incorrecting that they.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And they continue to try to find that out, And
I don't have much doubt that they'll find additional cases.
They have found one. I'm sure they'll find others, but
I also have no doubt that there are additional cases.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
There have to be fair enough. Okay, Bob, I appreciate
you taking the time to call, and I understand your position,
and I'm empathetic to your position, and i appreciate your
supporting this.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Okay, thank you, Thanks Bob.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Very we get back. I think Mark's line has been
cleared up, and we got to take a quick break
here and we will get back and Mark will be
next up. We got Rochelle coming up, we got Joe,
and then we've got some room for you. We'll take
as many people as we can between now and the
time that the Vice President of the United States actually
comes out and delivers her acceptance speech of the Democratic
(09:00):
presidential nomination. Back with Harvey Silverglade on night Side right
after this quick break. Now back to Dan Ray live
from the Window World Nights since Studios.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We're all got to go back to Mark in Cambridge.
And I'm told by Rob that Mark's audio is much better.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Mark right ahead, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I'm here, Dan Harvey Stogate, thank you for taking my call.
I'm a second time caller.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Okay, congratulations, I'm gonna be blunt with you.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I'm sorry to say this.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Let me start up with you.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Justice should have been served on that boat.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What you're saying by that, you're saying the boat where
we're bombing up two was captured. You would have preferred
to the police had to have ended it right there?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Okay, Well that could have gotten a police officer in
a lot of trouble in this country.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
But go ahead, right right.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I'm just staying in general. But as for the supermax
and you're talking about uh supermax prison. Yeah, to be
honest with you, I myself turned my life. I am
an ex con. I served time before. I've been into
the d d U in Massachusetts, and like Harvey said,
(10:15):
I mean twenty three hours a day lockdown in that DDU.
All I got was a TV that I earned, a
radio that I earned. No cosmetics, I mean, I mean
no canteen. Only canteen you get. It's just the basic,
the ortamate soap and you get reading materials. Do you
(10:37):
go out to the yard five days a week, one hour?
And when I was there, I was there in ninety
eight and ninety four. I had an incident with with
an officer not in major. Just you know, I salted him,
and you know they gave me sixteen major to him.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Go ahead, thank you for your being and so on,
Just go ahead.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yep. When I was there, I was there with the
worst of the worst. Even the one that we're not
gonna say his name, the one that established attorney in
Denham Court.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
He was there.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
He's the worst of the worst. But anyway, when I
was there, it's just you know, being in there, like
Harvey said, it has a mental impact. I mean, if
you're not strong, I mean, it can really deteriorate you.
You know, you're away from everybody, you're lockdown. Your food
comes to here, they come on a tier, they open
your wicket, they give you your food. And there was
(11:31):
sometimes in the DDU guys with this, believe it or not,
they kept the cage and they fought one inmate when
in another inmate's cage and fought. I mean, but like I.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Said that, how would that be a loud bark? I'm
confused as by the guards.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No, no, absolutely not. What it is that Let's say
me and another prisoner had an issue and we say
we go to the yard and the rays of blades
and they used tools and they were cut the end
of the one of the links to the fence, and
they would pull the link apart, and then the time
(12:11):
of officer realizes what's going on, the inmate would be
in the other inmates case. That happened a couple of
times up there at Walport. But like I said, I
turned my life around. I've been, I've been, I've been.
I've been out since twenty seventeen. I lost my mother
since twenty seventeen, and I decided to live low bodily
(12:34):
the only way to live. And I mean I mean,
like I said, I mean back to the baller number two.
I mean that's just my opinion. Justice shit, I've been
served rated all.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Right, Harvey, an interesting call. I have a variety of
people who listen to this program. I'm happy that Mark
has has gotten himself sprayed away. I'm sure you might
like to make a comment to him as well.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Well, there's nothing right somebody who's experienced to explain what
prison wife is like.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Absolutely well, Mark, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Dan, Like I said, I had a good attorney. Uh,
he's very good, very good attorney. My kill tone. You
probably know him. To let me see that's attorney.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Right here.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Benjamin Summon. Benjamin Smmon was on my case.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Okay, I don't I don't know him. I'm Harvey Harvey May.
But uh yeah, but if you if you had a
good attorney and you got yourself squared away. How how
old are you now? Mark? Let me tell me your age.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I'm fifty five years old. I don't have time to
do another thing.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
No, but you know what you got. You got at
least thirty good years ahead of you, hopefully and hopefully
have good health and uh and you you have some
great times because you missed a lot of times when
you're away. All right, Thank you, Mark.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I wasn't that bad, but I made my mas and no,
I love from them. Thank you Dan, Thank you Harvey
for taking my car. I have a blast night.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Write back at you, Mark. Thank you so much. It's amazing, Harvey,
a different experience that different people have. This is real life.
Let's get a couple more in here. I'll hold you
until I'll let you go right after the ten thirty news,
because at some point we will be hearing from the
Vice president tonight. Their speeches have all gone very late
(14:27):
this convention, amazingly so let me go to Rochelle in Weymouth. Rochelle,
you're next with Harvey Silwergleke're right ahead, Michelle, Hi.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Dan, Hi, Harvey. Thanks for taking my call. I'm in
disagreement with Harvey on the death penalty, but not as
much as some other people out there. I think that
in cases where you have serial killers, terrorists who've killed
multiple people, other mass murders, and those that have committed
first degree murder on a cup or other law enforcement,
(14:59):
I think those people deserve the death penalty. It's definitely
an order in those cases. I think other murders and
violent crimes should warrant long sentences or life without parole,
depending on the crime. I believe that except in these
extreme cases, I believe that all citizens should have a
(15:21):
right to life from womb to tomb based on the
fourteenth Amendment, but on the death penalty. If we do
away with the death penalty and life in prison with
no parole, I frankly don't see how we maintain law
and order.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, that's a broad a conversation, Michelle, and we can
save that for another night. I got to get Harvey
to focus on you've heard his argument. He is in
ultimately opposed to death penalty because he does not want
to see any innocent person executed because obviously, if an
innocent person is executed, and he believes in one case
(15:56):
that has.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Been proven that it is, well, I oppose anyone innocent executed.
I mean, you've got to make sure that you know
without a doubtruct.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
But Harvey says, because it's it's a human human frailty.
People make mistakes, and so that's that's his point that
the system can never be perfect because the system that
is run by.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
I know think some of the same people that want
to do away with the death penalty want to do
away with life in prison with no parle.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, you know, Michelle Rachelle, First of all, that's a
good observation. Harvey. Let me you know as well as
I do, that in different states, there are different laws,
and there is an effort. There's an efforts now in
some cases where the death penalty has been eliminated that
they have also said that life in prison without parole
(16:43):
is cruel and unusual punishment. Would you go that far
in some cases or.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
No, I would not go that far because I do
believe that there are people who have to be separated
from society because they are durable murderers. I mean, it's
just the fact of human lives.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Good, Okay, Rachelle Good points that that's we'll talk about
that some night as well. Appreciate you call tonight, talk
about that. Thank you very much. We're going to go
next to Joe and Lynn. Joe your next one nights
right ahead.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
We're taking my Thanks for taking my call, Harvey. I
have big feelings. In some cases. I'm for the death penalty.
I'm also for rehabilitation.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Like Mark.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I'm not uh, I think these terrorists. I think people
like Mark. I know we disagree, but I agree with
Daan on this. The death penalty. They should do it properly.
Put them in a decompression chain. We just take out
the oxygen so they don't suffer, and they're gone. We
have too many people, bad or good that shouldn't be
in prison. And I know in some prisons they try
(17:50):
and rehabilitate, like in Sweeten, and sometimes you can. I
don't think they should be mistreated in prison, but the
ones that deserves the death penalty, and my view is
they should get it. I just wanted to touch on.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That, Okay, fair enough, Joe. You know again you understand
Harvey's position. No sense of me having him to try
to convince you, but I appreciate you taking the time.
Thanks Joe.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Thanks by bye.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
We'll let me get one more in here before the
news of the bottom of the Arab Bob is in Waymouth. Bob,
you were next on night side with Harvey Silverglate.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
How you doing, mister silver Gate? You know the bomber
I realized. I appreciate he wo'd rather stay in the
maximum prison than be executed in and you know, I
don't think he has any rehabilitation. And also on his
religious beliefs, which I think he's more frightened than anything else,
(18:43):
that if you take innocent lives, that when you die,
allah Is God will be displeased with him because of
the atrocity you committed while you're on earth killing all
those people. And he knows that when he does die,
you're going to get tremendous punishment on him for his afterlife.
(19:03):
I like to see him stay there. I like him penalty,
go for it. I don't give stakes two or three years.
He's going to suffer every single day because he knows
he has to face his maker. And I think that's
the best punishment.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
So so you you think I'm just trying to figure
you think that life in prison so he could think
about that every day.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And no, no, no, he can think of it for
a year and a half to get back.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Oh so okay, so you you want to him? Uh,
facing is what I think you're saying.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And also in that time, like you say, might take
a year, two years, Well, he's going to suffer those
two or three years because he'd rather stay in the
in the maximum prison than than face Stephan because of
his religious denalah. And that's that's what's fear. That's what
he's scaring. And uh and I like that because he
(19:58):
deserves it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Okay, Harvey, want to comment, that's a it's an interesting observation.
I had not thought of that. Would you like to
comment on what Bob has to say?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, I I.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
What Bomb said did remind me of one other fact.
He was acting under the very strong diffluence of his
older brothers. And you can't quite eliminate that as a factor.
The isn't he is facing at death time because his
brother died in the shootout and they don't have the
older brother to execute.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well, I think that he ran over the allegedly ran
over the older brother, I believe, not not intentionally, no, no, no,
I know that right, but ironically, not intentionally, but ironically.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Ironically, yes, Dan, I mean, mister silbergate, you know this
is all premeditated. The bomb and no, him and his
brother going to kill innocent people. No, I an't going
to kill him. He saw them, he saw these little kids,
he saw them, the people watching the port. He know
they were going to die be made and he didn't
give a damn. And he was under no pressure from
(21:02):
the brother. That's a lot of that's.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, we don't know. We do know that the jury
considered that at trial, and and that was rejected by
the jury at the at the case and hole that
is separate and apart from the from the determination of
of the death penalty. But he was found guilty. That
was raised I believe, Harvey. If I'm wrong, please correct
me as a potential defense after we admitted that.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Remember, there's no question if you have a death penalty.
This case qualifies. That's not the issue. The issue is
whether you should have the death penalty at all, Right, Bob.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Can I say one more than you don't pull the
switch out, Pull the switch and have a good night.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay, thanks Bob, appreciate it all right, Harvey, way up
on our newscast as always. Thank you so much for
being available on this program, you know, as often as
you are, and tonight I do owe you a call
back on that email from earlier and earlier today, and
I'm looking forward to having that author on the program
(22:11):
at some point in the nine.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
You'll get the book tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Okay. I'm away from my residence, but I can. I
can get access to it within a few days. If
you know what I'm saying, I'll explain tomorrow. Okay, thanks Harvey.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Okay, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Doctor. You lator a great job, Harvey Silverglade. There are
none better in the courtroom or outside the courtroom, as
far as I'm concerned. Now we are waiting Kamala Harris,
who will be basically accepting her acceptance speech. But it
should be a presentation of what she intends to do
(22:53):
to be interesting, how specific she may or may not get.
We're going to take a quick newscast and then within
a few minutes, if you'd like to jump on board.
We're going to continue with this conversation until she takes
the podium, so I can't guarantee i'll get you on
we can. We can try six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten
(23:14):
thirty Dial quickly and we can talk about your positions
on whether or not Barber number two should get the
death penalty. You heard my position, you know my position.
You understand my position. You heard Harvey's position. I'd love
to get a few of you to call in right
now as we basically await the appearance of Vice President
Harris
It's nice with I'll you easy Boston's video.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I guess it is my good friend in many ways.
Mentor Harvey Silverglay, and we are talking about a situation
in Boston where the Boston bomber too, I choose not
to use his name. His lawyers now are filing another
appeal to get him out from underneath the Dan McLean
(00:29):
sword of the death penalty. And some conversation has come
up about a supermax prison in Colorado. Harvey, I don't
know if you've ever been there or not. I know
little about it. I've never been there. Tell us what
your understanding of it is, because you say that it
is worse than the death penalty.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
The supermax prisons have the innate in isolation twenty three
hours a day. There's only one hour a day when
they are allowed out in the yard with other inmates.
I don't know how anybody stays sane in the supermax prison.
Maybe they don't. There have been a tax on a
(01:10):
supermax prism on the ground that it constant it is
crueler unusual punishment that has not yet prevailed. But I
wouldn't be surprised if the composition of the Supreme court
were to change to a more liberal court, that argument
might prevail one of these days. As you know that
these the subjective cultrucial arguments change over generations. It is
(01:35):
worse than death in the opinion of the many people,
including myself.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Right, But I think I was about to make that point.
Do they they have visitors? Correct? Family members?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yes, you can have visitors and three meals a day,
but the isolation drives some of them quite crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
They have access to televisions, yes, they do so radios.
I mean we could have him listening to our show tonight.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Are they do they have access to would like to
have a life where or you do all day is
watch television? You'd go crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
A lot of my friends do that. Actually, some of
my friends only watch watch CNN from morning to night,
and some of my friends watch Fox News. And I'm
trying to get him to me. Let's let's keep going here, Harvey.
We got a bunch of calls and I'm enjoying the conversation.
I hope you are. I appreciate your time. Let's go
(02:40):
next to Mark in Cambridge. Okay, Harvey, Marks from Cambridge,
So maybe.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I thank your welcome.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And I'm gonna be.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
A bench.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
By the way, I'm having trouble hearing you, and if
I'm having trouble Harvey as well, are you on a speaker? Photo?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So sort, I just think it off.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Do me a favorite kind of clean up Mark's audio there, Okay,
I don't want to lose him. We'll bring him back.
Let's go in the meantime to Bob and rain him. Bob,
hopefully your audio is a little better than Mark.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Go ahead, Bob, all right, I'll try. Hi, Dan, Hi, Harvey.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Ado, go right ahead, Dan.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
I think I'm with you one thousand percent on this one.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
You're a brave Dan, and and do your battle with
Harvey civic like, go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
As a human and thinking from the victim's point of view,
I don't think I could sleep at night knowing that
the person that perpetrated whatever the horrendous crime did my
loved one is still breathing the air and eating food.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And watching TV.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
And I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. And again,
I think it goes back to what about the victims here?
I mean, there's several victims when one person is murdered
by another individual, and in the case of this case,
in Boston. Why why is this guy still breathing the air?
(04:26):
And what about the poor I can't remember? Is that
the Richard family?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But by the way, just so you know, I believe
that his parents oppose the imposition of the death penalty,
and they would support Harvey's argument.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I'm surprised at that because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
They must be they.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Must be, no, I assure you, right, but I don't know.
I mean, they must be better the people than me
or whatever. But I could never I could never fail
that way. And the other thing is is I think
the death penalty could work as a deterrent if it
was done swiftly instead of waiting thirty years to put
(05:16):
these creeps to death. Okay, I mean it's it's.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Let me get let me let me give Let me
give Harvey a chance to persuade you. I don't think
he's going to. But Harvey, is there any point that
you feel you'd like to make to what Bob.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Had to say, Well, the reason that these cases go
on so long is precisely because the result, if the
result is death, it's it's irremediable. You can't correct the
mistake afterwards. So that's another rub you know, a Zarnaia
would have been, you know, just serving his sentence. If
(05:52):
this case were over, and this is no picnic to
be in a supermax prison, then some of course there's
all to the expenses and an enormous amount of resources
going into this. It could be at the end the
criminal justice system is screaming for more resources and he
were wasting all this money and time on a death
(06:14):
penalty case.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
There are although those those are all the arguments that
we've heard for years. And I sometimes cite the case,
Harvey of the doctor Phillips' family in Connecticut. The guys
who went in tied him up, raped and burned his
daughters to death by pouring gasolene. And they were you know,
(06:36):
the you're familiar the case, and they were actually caught
running away the police that surrounded the house. And so
I mean, there are there are horrible, horrific crimes, and
I don't know that we will live. Let me ask
you one question, and Bob, I don't mean to steal
your time, but just real, one quick question, Harvey, you're
convinced that from a an actual areial point of view
(06:56):
or a statistical point of view, that in view of
the number of people that the Innocence Project has shown
through DNA testing and some new developments, people who have
been freed from prison. Why is it that the Innocence
Project has not been able to produce more as I'm
not familiar with the case that they have produced, by
(07:17):
the way, and I have to go read it. But
they've only, as I understand to produced one case in
which they say they are certain that an innocent person
was executed. What is the reason why they have not
produced more examples of innocent people being executed?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Because because by and large, the system convicts guilty people
and not innocent people by and large. And that's absolutely true.
But no human system is perfect. And the Innocence Part
has proven that there is no doubt in my mind
that there are other innocent people who are on death
(07:52):
row and other people who have been executed. No doubt
in my mind who they are would require an enormous
amount of resources to find out.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
The project was trying to find that out or am
I incorrecting that they.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And they continue to try to find that out, And
I don't have much doubt that they'll find additional cases.
They have found one. I'm sure they'll find others, but
I also have no doubt that there are additional cases.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
There have to be fair enough. Okay, Bob, I appreciate
you taking the time to call, and I understand your position,
and I'm empathetic to your position, and i appreciate your
supporting this.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Okay, thank you, Thanks Bob.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Very we get back. I think Mark's line has been
cleared up, and we got to take a quick break
here and we will get back and Mark will be
next up. We got Rochelle coming up, we got Joe,
and then we've got some room for you. We'll take
as many people as we can between now and the
time that the Vice President of the United States actually
comes out and delivers her acceptance speech of the Democratic
(09:00):
presidential nomination. Back with Harvey Silverglade on night Side right
after this quick break. Now back to Dan Ray live
from the Window World Nights since Studios.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We're all got to go back to Mark in Cambridge.
And I'm told by Rob that Mark's audio is much better.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Mark right ahead, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I'm here, Dan Harvey Stogate, thank you for taking my call.
I'm a second time caller.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Okay, congratulations, I'm gonna be blunt with you.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I'm sorry to say this.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Let me start up with you.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Justice should have been served on that boat.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What you're saying by that, you're saying the boat where
we're bombing up two was captured. You would have preferred
to the police had to have ended it right there?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Okay, Well that could have gotten a police officer in
a lot of trouble in this country.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
But go ahead, right right.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I'm just staying in general. But as for the supermax
and you're talking about uh supermax prison. Yeah, to be
honest with you, I myself turned my life. I am
an ex con. I served time before. I've been into
the d d U in Massachusetts, and like Harvey said,
(10:15):
I mean twenty three hours a day lockdown in that DDU.
All I got was a TV that I earned, a
radio that I earned. No cosmetics, I mean, I mean
no canteen. Only canteen you get. It's just the basic,
the ortamate soap and you get reading materials. Do you
(10:37):
go out to the yard five days a week, one hour?
And when I was there, I was there in ninety
eight and ninety four. I had an incident with with
an officer not in major. Just you know, I salted him,
and you know they gave me sixteen major to him.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Go ahead, thank you for your being and so on,
Just go ahead.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yep. When I was there, I was there with the
worst of the worst. Even the one that we're not
gonna say his name, the one that established attorney in
Denham Court.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
He was there.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
He's the worst of the worst. But anyway, when I
was there, it's just you know, being in there, like
Harvey said, it has a mental impact. I mean, if
you're not strong, I mean, it can really deteriorate you.
You know, you're away from everybody, you're lockdown. Your food
comes to here, they come on a tier, they open
your wicket, they give you your food. And there was
(11:31):
sometimes in the DDU guys with this, believe it or not,
they kept the cage and they fought one inmate when
in another inmate's cage and fought. I mean, but like I.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Said that, how would that be a loud bark? I'm
confused as by the guards.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
No, no, absolutely not. What it is that Let's say
me and another prisoner had an issue and we say
we go to the yard and the rays of blades
and they used tools and they were cut the end
of the one of the links to the fence, and
they would pull the link apart, and then the time
(12:11):
of officer realizes what's going on, the inmate would be
in the other inmates case. That happened a couple of
times up there at Walport. But like I said, I
turned my life around. I've been, I've been, I've been.
I've been out since twenty seventeen. I lost my mother
since twenty seventeen, and I decided to live low bodily
(12:34):
the only way to live. And I mean I mean,
like I said, I mean back to the baller number two.
I mean that's just my opinion. Justice shit, I've been
served rated all.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Right, Harvey, an interesting call. I have a variety of
people who listen to this program. I'm happy that Mark
has has gotten himself sprayed away. I'm sure you might
like to make a comment to him as well.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Well, there's nothing right somebody who's experienced to explain what
prison wife is like.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Absolutely well, Mark, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Dan, Like I said, I had a good attorney. Uh,
he's very good, very good attorney. My kill tone. You
probably know him. To let me see that's attorney.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Right here.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Benjamin Summon. Benjamin Smmon was on my case.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Okay, I don't I don't know him. I'm Harvey Harvey May.
But uh yeah, but if you if you had a
good attorney and you got yourself squared away. How how
old are you now? Mark? Let me tell me your age.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I'm fifty five years old. I don't have time to
do another thing.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
No, but you know what you got. You got at
least thirty good years ahead of you, hopefully and hopefully
have good health and uh and you you have some
great times because you missed a lot of times when
you're away. All right, Thank you, Mark.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I wasn't that bad, but I made my mas and no,
I love from them. Thank you Dan, Thank you Harvey
for taking my car. I have a blast night.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Write back at you, Mark. Thank you so much. It's amazing, Harvey,
a different experience that different people have. This is real life.
Let's get a couple more in here. I'll hold you
until I'll let you go right after the ten thirty news,
because at some point we will be hearing from the
Vice president tonight. Their speeches have all gone very late
(14:27):
this convention, amazingly so let me go to Rochelle in Weymouth. Rochelle,
you're next with Harvey Silwergleke're right ahead, Michelle, Hi.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Dan, Hi, Harvey. Thanks for taking my call. I'm in
disagreement with Harvey on the death penalty, but not as
much as some other people out there. I think that
in cases where you have serial killers, terrorists who've killed
multiple people, other mass murders, and those that have committed
first degree murder on a cup or other law enforcement,
(14:59):
I think those people deserve the death penalty. It's definitely
an order in those cases. I think other murders and
violent crimes should warrant long sentences or life without parole,
depending on the crime. I believe that except in these
extreme cases, I believe that all citizens should have a
(15:21):
right to life from womb to tomb based on the
fourteenth Amendment, but on the death penalty. If we do
away with the death penalty and life in prison with
no parole, I frankly don't see how we maintain law
and order.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, that's a broad a conversation, Michelle, and we can
save that for another night. I got to get Harvey
to focus on you've heard his argument. He is in
ultimately opposed to death penalty because he does not want
to see any innocent person executed because obviously, if an
innocent person is executed, and he believes in one case
(15:56):
that has.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Been proven that it is, well, I oppose anyone innocent executed.
I mean, you've got to make sure that you know
without a doubtruct.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
But Harvey says, because it's it's a human human frailty.
People make mistakes, and so that's that's his point that
the system can never be perfect because the system that
is run by.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
I know think some of the same people that want
to do away with the death penalty want to do
away with life in prison with no parle.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, you know, Michelle Rachelle, First of all, that's a
good observation. Harvey. Let me you know as well as
I do, that in different states, there are different laws,
and there is an effort. There's an efforts now in
some cases where the death penalty has been eliminated that
they have also said that life in prison without parole
(16:43):
is cruel and unusual punishment. Would you go that far
in some cases or.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
No, I would not go that far because I do
believe that there are people who have to be separated
from society because they are durable murderers. I mean, it's
just the fact of human lives.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Good, Okay, Rachelle Good points that that's we'll talk about
that some night as well. Appreciate you call tonight, talk
about that. Thank you very much. We're going to go
next to Joe and Lynn. Joe your next one nights
right ahead.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
We're taking my Thanks for taking my call, Harvey. I
have big feelings. In some cases. I'm for the death penalty.
I'm also for rehabilitation.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Like Mark.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I'm not uh, I think these terrorists. I think people
like Mark. I know we disagree, but I agree with
Daan on this. The death penalty. They should do it properly.
Put them in a decompression chain. We just take out
the oxygen so they don't suffer, and they're gone. We
have too many people, bad or good that shouldn't be
in prison. And I know in some prisons they try
(17:50):
and rehabilitate, like in Sweeten, and sometimes you can. I
don't think they should be mistreated in prison, but the
ones that deserves the death penalty, and my view is
they should get it. I just wanted to touch on.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That, Okay, fair enough, Joe. You know again you understand
Harvey's position. No sense of me having him to try
to convince you, but I appreciate you taking the time.
Thanks Joe.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Thanks by bye.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
We'll let me get one more in here before the
news of the bottom of the Arab Bob is in Waymouth. Bob,
you were next on night side with Harvey Silverglate.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
How you doing, mister silver Gate? You know the bomber
I realized. I appreciate he wo'd rather stay in the
maximum prison than be executed in and you know, I
don't think he has any rehabilitation. And also on his
religious beliefs, which I think he's more frightened than anything else,
(18:43):
that if you take innocent lives, that when you die,
allah Is God will be displeased with him because of
the atrocity you committed while you're on earth killing all
those people. And he knows that when he does die,
you're going to get tremendous punishment on him for his afterlife.
(19:03):
I like to see him stay there. I like him penalty,
go for it. I don't give stakes two or three years.
He's going to suffer every single day because he knows
he has to face his maker. And I think that's
the best punishment.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
So so you you think I'm just trying to figure
you think that life in prison so he could think
about that every day.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And no, no, no, he can think of it for
a year and a half to get back.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Oh so okay, so you you want to him? Uh,
facing is what I think you're saying.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And also in that time, like you say, might take
a year, two years, Well, he's going to suffer those
two or three years because he'd rather stay in the
in the maximum prison than than face Stephan because of
his religious denalah. And that's that's what's fear. That's what
he's scaring. And uh and I like that because he
(19:58):
deserves it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Okay, Harvey, want to comment, that's a it's an interesting observation.
I had not thought of that. Would you like to
comment on what Bob has to say?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, I I.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
What Bomb said did remind me of one other fact.
He was acting under the very strong diffluence of his
older brothers. And you can't quite eliminate that as a factor.
The isn't he is facing at death time because his
brother died in the shootout and they don't have the
older brother to execute.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well, I think that he ran over the allegedly ran
over the older brother, I believe, not not intentionally, no, no, no,
I know that right, but ironically, not intentionally, but ironically.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Ironically, yes, Dan, I mean, mister silbergate, you know this
is all premeditated. The bomb and no, him and his
brother going to kill innocent people. No, I an't going
to kill him. He saw them, he saw these little kids,
he saw them, the people watching the port. He know
they were going to die be made and he didn't
give a damn. And he was under no pressure from
(21:02):
the brother. That's a lot of that's.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Well, we don't know. We do know that the jury
considered that at trial, and and that was rejected by
the jury at the at the case and hole that
is separate and apart from the from the determination of
of the death penalty. But he was found guilty. That
was raised I believe, Harvey. If I'm wrong, please correct
me as a potential defense after we admitted that.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Remember, there's no question if you have a death penalty.
This case qualifies. That's not the issue. The issue is
whether you should have the death penalty at all, Right, Bob.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Can I say one more than you don't pull the
switch out, Pull the switch and have a good night.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay, thanks Bob, appreciate it all right, Harvey, way up
on our newscast as always. Thank you so much for
being available on this program, you know, as often as
you are, and tonight I do owe you a call
back on that email from earlier and earlier today, and
I'm looking forward to having that author on the program
(22:11):
at some point in the nine.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
You'll get the book tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Okay. I'm away from my residence, but I can. I
can get access to it within a few days. If
you know what I'm saying, I'll explain tomorrow. Okay, thanks Harvey.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Okay, thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Doctor. You lator a great job, Harvey Silverglade. There are
none better in the courtroom or outside the courtroom, as
far as I'm concerned. Now we are waiting Kamala Harris,
who will be basically accepting her acceptance speech. But it
should be a presentation of what she intends to do
(22:53):
to be interesting, how specific she may or may not get.
We're going to take a quick newscast and then within
a few minutes, if you'd like to jump on board.
We're going to continue with this conversation until she takes
the podium, so I can't guarantee i'll get you on
we can. We can try six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten
(23:14):
thirty Dial quickly and we can talk about your positions
on whether or not Barber number two should get the
death penalty. You heard my position, you know my position.
You understand my position. You heard Harvey's position. I'd love
to get a few of you to call in right
now as we basically await the appearance of Vice President
Harris
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