November 26, 2025 • 37 mins
As part of Boston's harm reduction approach to tackling the drug problem at Mass & Cass, the city has handed out more than 4.5 million needles to drug users during Mayor Wu's first four-year term. Since 2023, Boston has received millions of dollars from the state for its harm reduction, treatment, and recovery efforts. We talked about whether there have been improvements to tackling Boston's drug problem at Mass & Cass. Do you have any suggestions for tackling the ongoing drug challenge in Boston?
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on ws Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am not easily shocked, Thanks very much, Dan Watkins.
I am not easily shocked. But as I looked at
the front page of the Boston Herald today, the headline
is scharn syringe city hub hands out four point five
million needles. It's are you kidding me? Four point five
(00:34):
million needles? Now, let's I want to hear. If you
disagree with me, bring it on, that's fine, but this
number is to me astonishing. The piece is written by
Gayla Cawley. She's a reporter for the Herald. The headline
needle number shock. I was shocked four point five million.
(00:58):
Boston hands out millions of needles during Mayor Woo's tenure,
So going back to twenty twenty two, which would be
the mayor's first term in office. She was elected in
the fall of twenty twenty one, and I spec I
suppose I'm not blaming her per se, but I am
suggesting that I'm sure this is a set of circumstances
(01:20):
that she inherited, but it doesn't look like it's gotten
much better. In twenty twenty two, they handed out one million,
two hundred seventy nine thousand, five hundred and eighty four needles,
twenty twenty three one million, two hundred fifty six thousand,
four hundred and twenty four needles. I mean they keep
track of this, I hope. Twenty twenty four, last year
one million, one hundred fifty two thousand, one hundred ninety
(01:42):
two needles, and this year, so far through October thirtieth,
they're already at eight hundred forty five thousand, seven hundred
and twenty needles. Now, each year that it is dropped
a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit.
There was a pretty could drop off between twenty twenty,
(02:05):
twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, about one hundred
thousand fewer needles. This year it will get up over
a million needles. Again, I would suspect, but the internals
of the story are what is shocking. Now. If this
number does not shock you, and I'm naive, please feel
(02:26):
free to let me know that I'm naive, Okay, but
I want to I want to hit some of the
story here. The Boston Public Health Commission disclosed its medium
syringe distribution per month for twenty twenty two through Halloween.
(02:48):
Our last month, and I just ran through the numbers.
The bottom line is it's four point five million needles. Okay. Now,
the Boston Public Health Commissioner by Sola Oshikutu, I hope
I pronounced that name correctly. Basically, according to this Herald article,
(03:13):
did understate slightly the average per number of needles that
are given out to drug users. The boss the Boston
Public Health Commission, according to the article in the Herald,
in its records in its records response, declined to provide
figures for how much the city is spending on distributing
(03:33):
needles to drug users each year, but said it collects
more syringes through various programs that it distributes. Well, that's
good news, hall great. I don't know how this happens.
I mean, if they if they have people walking the
streets of Boston asking people if they want a needle,
if there are certain places that the uh, the addicts
and and I have. Let me tell you anybody who's
(03:55):
an addicted who's addicted to the needles, UH, to heroin, fentanyl,
and if they can beat that, God love them. But
I don't know that this is going to help people
beat it. It sounds to me like we have come.
We have met the enemy and they is us, and
(04:16):
they have said we will just give needles to people
to keep them healthy until they overdose. This is you
talk about transparency here and again, I know numbers are tough,
but please try to stay with me here if you can.
(04:36):
According to the Herald regarding yearly distribution cost, the Boston
Public Health Commissioner does not receive city appropriated funds for
the purpose of syringe distribution. The Assistant General Counsel wrote,
the funds that we use come from the Carmalta Massachusetts
and therefore we do not have any responsive records. So
we get the money from the Carmalta Massachusetts, but we
(04:57):
don't keep any records. Okay, that's that's pretty transparent. If
the Commission's budget line for quote risk reduction and overdose
prevention was approved just north of two million for this
fiscal year. With the year in which we're currently in
FY twenty six, the Boston Health Commission sent out a
request for proposals for harm reduction supplies in May of
(05:19):
twenty twenty four that noted the annual expenditure on supplies
is approximately in the range of one million, so we're
going up. We're going up from a million to two
million since fiscal year twenty twenty three, which would be
really twenty twenty three into twenty twenty four, excuse me,
would be twenty twenty two into twenty twenty three. The
(05:39):
City of Boston's received millions of dollars from the state
for its harm reduction, treatment and recovery experts efforts as
part of an opioid settlement with pharmaceuticals companies. Okay, so
the pharmaco pharmaceutical companies are paying for a lot of this.
The city will receive at least forty million dollars through
twenty thirty nine. That's going to be pretty close to
(06:00):
a million, maybe a million points something per year, and
that includes more than fourteen point seven million from FY
twenty three through the current fiscal years. So these are
in addition to the needles, the cost of the needles.
It goes on to say that, oh, they also hand
(06:21):
out a lot of other supplies condoms and dental dams
for safer sex, tourniquets, cotton pellets, saline and personal hygiene items.
The Public Health Commission, while including an extensive list of
harm reduction supplies in its request for proposals took issue
with The Herald's request for data on how many crack
(06:42):
pipes and other drug paraphernalia it distributes. Remember, there was
this whole big story that crack pipes were being distributed
and the city said no about a year ago, and now,
of course they are. Everyone understands it's true. Rather than
provide the information as part of its records response, the
Public Health Commission, according to The Herald, belittle the Herald's
(07:02):
chosen language quote. Boston Public Health Commission objects to the
use of the terms crack pipes and other drug paraphernalia.
Smoking pipes is an overdose prevention strategy that makes it
less likely for people to overdose compared to injections. Oh,
smoking crack better than injections. Okay, at least we know
(07:24):
that now. Pipes are also better for public safety because
they do not pose a biohazard risk to the public
if discarded improperly. Also, to the extent that you're requesting
pipe distribution information, Boston Public Health Commission does not have
reliable data to report accurate figures. Not much transparency there,
(07:46):
which are available in limited numbers, adding that the lawyer
was rejecting the request for other drug paraphernalia due to
it being vague and broad. Well, lawyers are good. It's
saying that's vague and broad. I can't answer that question now.
Of course, we all know about mass and casts, and
(08:07):
I wonder if passing out syringes over the last four
years four point five million syringers has helped mass and casts.
My suspicion is probably not, but I could be wrong.
Residents and how dear these residents in the South End
complain about the health and safety risk of discarded needles.
I mean it's their kids in the parks and playgrounds
(08:29):
that they're concerned about. I mean they don't see the
big picture. And their dogs also have a matter of fact,
one dog a guy had to knock can his dog.
According to The Herald, Ohikuto defended the city's harm reduction
approach at a city council meeting in early September as
(08:49):
key defending off HIV and other diseases that are commonly
spread through shared needles used for drug injection. If you
consider the number of times someone is using fentanyl, here's
a shocker, ten to fifteen injections per day. I thought
fentyl in small amounts can kill you. That's what we're told.
(09:11):
We're trying to decrease the risk of HIV exposure with
ten to fifteen injections of fentanyl. Wow, she said. The
city's Public Health Commission has identified a cluster of HIV
cases in the Boston region. Most of the more than
(09:32):
two hundred HIV cases in the region are connected to
mass and cast drug injection. I'm not surprised by that,
Ojakutu said, adding that the number would be higher without
the city's harm reduction approach. I'm simply going to open
up the phone lines. I don't care if you live
in Boston or wherever you live. But how have we
(09:55):
as a society degenerated to the point that we are
going to distribute four point five million needles. There's no
way that four point five million needles are being distributed
at safe injection sites because we don't have that many
safe injection sites in Boston, and even if we did,
(10:18):
you can't fit that many people into safe injection sites.
They must be handing these out like that the tobacco
companies used to hand out little packets of cigarettes to people.
Remember that it hands you into the new mentals. Yeah,
Try these, you'll like these. Try these, you'll like these.
It's the same principle, give them what they want, give
(10:40):
them what they want. But this is a sad commentary
on where we as a society are. Uh. And if
you disagree with me, and you'd like to make the
point that this is necessary, I'm happy to hear from
you as well on that, feel free to make your point.
But this is I think it's appalling. You know, if
(11:04):
you said that we had given out one hundred thousand
needles in the last four years, I would say something like,
that's kind of high. But you know, if it saves
a few lives, okay, But four point five million needles?
What are we are? We are we the drug capital
of America, the fentanyl, the heroin capital of America. Six
(11:27):
one seven two five four ten thirty lines were already
filling up six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
Someone who tried to get in all last night, UH
told me today that she had been calling six one
seven two five four ten thirty and got a busy signal. Well,
the other line is just as good, folks. Six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. Write that one down.
(11:51):
It's sometimes it's easier than the six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty. I'd love to hear from you,
and if you're a big proponent of this, and you
think that this program should be expanded and maybe a
couple of years from now, instead of giving out a
million hypodermic needles a year, we can give out to
a three million hypodermic needles a year. You know, just
just turn the lights out when you leave, Okay, and
(12:13):
uh and leave, leave all the addicts and leave as
many hypodermic needles as you want. This is, I think insane.
These people need help. They do not need I think,
you know, encouragement, uh for a lifestyle that is totally
destructive and is eventually going to kill them. And I
say that as someone I stand it. I stand behind
(12:36):
no one in my admiration. And I have a lot
of friends of mine who have beat addictions, whether it's
alcohol or or drugs. A lot of people don't be
fentanyl because fentanyl wins a lot in the end. Sadly,
join the conversation, coming right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's night Side with Yon's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
All right, So four and a half needles Hyperdemic hyperdemic
hypodermic Uh, Sirryn syringe needles just distributed free of charge
here in Boston. What does that say about our society?
I mean, there can't be that many true addicts. How
many addicts can there be? I don't know. That would
(13:23):
suggest a lot more than I realized. We'll go to
Jerry in West Roxbury. Jerry, you are first this hour
and nights. I appreciate you calling in your thoughts. Jerry,
go right.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Ahead, Hey Jan happy Thanks shivn uh right back at
you first.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
You know, when only when on?
Speaker 5 (13:37):
We just do what the best governor of all time
and the best mayor of Boston, Mayor wou and our
best governor of all time, Healy, It just blamed Trump
and the problem goes away.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I never thought of that. But that's not a bad suggestion.
That's not.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Blame Trump.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Blame Trump and a problem will go away.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately the problem is that Trump has closed
off the border, which I think is probably going to
make it more difficult to get to get fentamol. And
he's blown up a bunch of boats that are carrying
drugs up from Venezuela. Uh yeah, but did you did that? Number. Shock.
(14:18):
It really shocked me. Four point five million. There's only
six million people or seven million people in Massachusetts. Now,
I know that it's a limited number of people, but
how many needles does it addict need on any given day?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
You know, Apgiving, well.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You have a happy Thanksgiving. And I hope that somehow,
some way the city can actually come up with a solution.
We have basically, you know, opened up a Pandora's box here.
That's exactly what we have done. I remember when they
were discussing this and the idea of giving out needles,
and initially they said, well, we'll give them out in
(15:03):
safe injection sites like Vancouver. Larry is in Hingham. Hey, Larry,
welcome next on nightside.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
H good evening. You know, when daval Patrick was the governor,
it was his administration and his suggestion that you don't
need a prescription any longer to get a needle a
hypodermic instrument. And prior to that, it was it was
a crime to be in possession of a hypodermic instrument
without a prescription. But Patrick decriminalized that, and.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, all of that stuff has to be a step
at a time. We you know, decriminalize it or whatever,
and then or you can have it, and then we
make it available, We make it easily available. This number
stuns me. Four point five million, call me naive.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Well, you know, it seems like about six months ago
you had a youth football coach on your show talking
about the needle problem.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yes, Domingo's DeRosa. He was a candidate from mayor uh.
He actually finished third in the primary, and then they
did not allow him to be on the ballot after
Josh Kraft withdrew from the race, who had finished second.
It might have been interesting to see what sort of
(16:23):
a vote Domingo de Rosa would have gotten on the
ballot in a head to head with Mayor WU. But
that was not to be, and I think the Mayor's
office was not hal We did not look forward to
that prospect.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Things have not gotten any better. And you said earlier
you weren't necessarily blaming the mayor, Well, who do you
blame you?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I blame everybody here, the leadership across the state. I mean,
I have to assume that they're all drinking the same
kool aid, because if you live in a district, let's
say a congressional disc trick that you're not impacted by this.
Uh you probably say, well, it doesn't really matter to me,
(17:07):
but I kind of imagine. I just think that there
is a push within the Democratic Party on a number
of fronts, and you you have to stay in line.
Everybody has to run a sanctuary city.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
We we don't want to cooperate and get illegal criminals,
criminals who are here who have committed crimes while they're
here or have come here, and there serious criminals. We
we want to always focus on, uh, the mom and
her and her child, and and those are all wonderfully
sympathetic cases. And there can be exceptions to the rule.
(17:43):
But look at you see what Look at what what
happens in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
You know the people who are who.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Are being burnt alive on on you know, trains, and
what happened to that woman down in Sharp, North Carolina.
And then when they went into Charlotte this week to
uh to to have a presence of ice. All those
folks are out there protesting. They didn't protest when the
guy stabbed and killed the Ukrainian woman on the on
(18:15):
the train in cold Blood. I don't understand the priorities
of these people. Who I assume are relatively intelligence to
you intelligence.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I will tell you that. I will tell you this.
A lot of people in your business have politicians on
the show this shows and they talk all about this problem,
but nobody does nothing. And I'm not going to mention
any names about Boston councilors, but they're always on the radio.
The bottom line, they do nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well Boston. Well, Boston is a city. Comes back to
your question. Boston is a city where the mayor is
an incredibly powerful Tom Manino was a powerful mayor. Marty
Walsh was a powerful mayor. There are some cities that
are set up so that the city council is is
the mayor is more of a figure. That's not so
in Boston. Uh. You know, I do think that to
(19:05):
getting back to your original question, that I think Mayor
Wu has to be feel some responsibility for this, But
at the same time, it's a problem that she inherited. Uh,
and it's a problem that the National Democratic Party seems
to seems not to care about. I almost think to
some extent that a lot of the leading politicians, particularly
(19:30):
in the Democratic side, uh, look at these poor human
beings as collateral damage, meaning that it's better for us
to to to express our support and opinion and really
do nothing for them, and they're probably going to die.
(19:50):
But by by virtue signaling, we're going to pick up
more votes than we would. It's there's an agenda here
in my opinion, Larry, and it's not good for the addicts.
It's not good for the people who live in the
communities that the addicts now thrive in.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
And maybe it's I think society. But the mayor was
too busy picking out Christmas trees and playing the piano
to people. How they're with this stuff?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Well, I think you can make that point. I mean
she she had a lovely family trip to Nova Scotia,
and I thought that she did very well with the
photo ops up there. And yeah, so, I mean, I
don't think that she's looking at this number tonight and
talking about it with either her family or friends and saying,
we got to get this number down because four point
(20:37):
five mil. We've reached the tipping point where you know,
how many needles can we give out? I mean, it's
do we give out? Do we eventually give out three
million a year, two million a year? What do we do?
Speaker 4 (20:50):
I don't know, Well, if you lived over there and
one of your children had sandals on or something in
the steps on one of these things, the kick could
have a major health problem.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
No more. Well, I will say this, and maybe I'll
go to upset some people with this. I've done several
hours on this story from the point of view of
the residents and mass and Casts, and there are a
lot of really brave people in Mass and Casts will
come on this program in that South End area. But
you know, Mayor WU carry the South End, So apparently
(21:21):
the majority of people in the South End must be
pretty happy with their policies. Don't you think.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Sounds that way The people have spoken.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, it's well, of course the voter turnout wasn't great,
but there were probably a lot of people who figured,
well this this this race is is concluded, and if
they're not going to take the time to go vote,
that's that's their problem. Larry, I appreciate your input, I
really do, and I hear the disappointment in your voice.
I wish there was something that I could turn around
(21:50):
and do. All I can try to do is open
this up for conversation and give people an opportunity to
express themselves and I'll see. I'll see what sort of
response we get after this news at the bottom of
the hour.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Thanks a prey, Thanksgiving, Dan, Happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Same to you, my friend. Thank you much. All Right,
we got open lines here, and if this does not
bother you, maybe it'll come to your neighborhood if you
live in the South End.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I never imagined four point five million needles being given
away for free. I mean it's like the city becomes
an accessory to the drug abuse, is what it comes
down to. It's as simple as that. Now. I know
that there were some of you out there who say, well, no,
we need to keep people safe and give them their
individual needs. I understand that argument, but what about trying
(22:35):
to actually work and get people off this stuff. There
are people who have beaten it. And if you've beaten
it and you want to talk about it, I have
wide open lines here, which is always discouraging. It says
to me, if you don't care about the problem, we'll
move on to something else. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten
thirty lines are open. We can talk about this, or
(22:57):
we'll talk about something else. Coming back on the other side,
after nights that if you live in Boston, this should
worry you. Trust me, it should worry you.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Night side with Dan Ray, I'm telling you Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
We're talking about it really an unbelievable number, although I
believe it's a believable number that Boston in the last
three plus years, nearly four years, in fairness, have given
out four point five million, four and a half million
(23:33):
needles hypodermic needles to drug users. I guess in an
effort to keep them safe. But I'm wondering if keeping
them safe in the short term is worth the long
term impact. Let me go to Kevin in Webster, Massachusetts,
far away from Boston, but I know where Webster is. Hi, Kevin,
(23:54):
how are you.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
I'm doing well, Dan, thank you. I hope you can
hear me. Okay, I'm on the highway.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, I hear you perfectly.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Go great.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
I'm actually driving out of Boston going back to central
mass So it's a little topical and I only caught
the tail end of that exchange. But I think there
are two points, and I think the first point is
probably more important. One is with this program with the
clean needles, I'll say personally, I support it because I
do think, you know, keeping people healthy in general probably
a good thing to the alternative, but it really doesn't
(24:25):
solve source the problem. It's treating the symptom of use
and eating those needles in the first place. So I think,
on the one hand, it's not really doing anything, I'll
say honestly, But I think that the second point is
where does the buck stop? Who does take responsibility to
these sorts of things? The Clean Needle program is great,
(24:48):
but what's the follow up?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Well, I don't know that there's a follow up. Here's
my question to you. I don't know if you're a
numbers guy, but numbers on the radio are tough. But
if if you had no listen to the show tonight
and I had said to you, how many clean needles
do you think Boston had distributed two people in the
last say three and a half years, do you think
(25:13):
you would have given me a number anywhere close to
four point five million?
Speaker 7 (25:17):
YEA, Honestly, it probably would have been guessed, but it
wouldn't have been that high. I guess definitely would have
been that high.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Is a overstarishing figure. I mean, how many how many
fentle addicts are there in Boston. Okay, I mean, I
don't know. If there are five thousand fental atticts in
Boston who were roaming the streets, you multiply that by
three hundred and sixty five days a year, and then
(25:43):
you multiply that by four. I'm going to do the
math in the next break here. But four point five million?
Oh my god? Are they handing them out like in
you know when you when you go and buy a
case of beer, you get twenty four beers, but it's
one case of beat who but it's twenty four? It's
twenty four beers. Are the handing out needles in packets
(26:06):
of twenty four? How do you get to four point
five million?
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Well, I'll tell you what I used to work off
of the other side of mass and cast. But you know,
people walk down the street and having seen it, having
driven by it, you know, for weeks, day after day.
I can't say I'm too surprised with the numbers, but yeah,
how do you even wrap your head around it? How
do you move forward from that? I think.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Honestly. I had a crazy idea the past couple of
days that I've been thinking about since very topable but
I almost think if we want to stop that, you
need to bring back to the old way of doing
things with the state institutions, you know, statesylums. I guess
the word for it sounds like that word, but you know,
(26:52):
if someone can.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, we had stated we had state senator, a state
Senator from South Boston, Nick Collins, on and last week
and and he's he's talking about a program UH that
UH that is really very interesting when you think about it.
What that program would do is, uh, it would force
(27:14):
people into into programs where they would have to participate.
And and he's also talking about purchasing a cruise ship.
The city would purchase a cruise ship. I don't know
if you remember, I had forgotten about it, but there
was a huge gas explosion back north of Boston up
in kind of mac Valley area, UH and there were
(27:36):
I think thirty five hundred people who were brought in
here to UH to to fix the lines and just
an incredible workload. They brought a cruise ship in UH
and and basically that was their headquarters where they where
they stayed. They didn't have enough hotel. So it was
an innovative idea that Nick Collins has come up with,
(27:58):
and I think it's I think it would be critical,
critical to at least consider it in view of this.
This is this is an astonishing figure to me. But Kevin,
I very much appreciate your approach and disagree with me
in such a gentlemanly fashion. And I thank you for calling.
Have you called before? Says your first time.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
I've actually called before. It's probably a year year and
a half ago. As energy we were talking about. I
made a call on about pro nuclear energy.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Well, do me a favor, don't be a stranger, come
back more often, a thoughtful call. Appreciate it very much.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks Dan, Thanks Kevin.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Talk to you soon, quick break, coming right back here
on Nightside. We will finish up. We will probably switch
topics at ten, So if you want to get in,
get in now six one seven, five four ten thirty
or six one seven, nine three thirty all points of view,
All welcome.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And the phone lines got hot here, going to go
quickly to Sandy and West Rocks. Sandy, thank you for
calling in as a Boston resident. I'm appalled. I'm stunned
at this number.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
Yeah, it is pretty frightening. Sometimes I think, rather than
have a city council which is pursuing the the aims,
not I don't think of the majority of the people,
but they should just let put all of these things.
I mean, my my tax dollars, they are tax dollars,
(29:27):
everybody's tax dollars, you know, instead of pointed to places
where they really needed, this is where the money is going.
And they should just put out a you know, put
everything on of the out let. People vote on this.
I can't imagine that.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
The problem city is people look at look at West Roxbury,
West Roxbury. Uh, you had the bike lanes there and
uh and Mayor Will carried West Roxbury. So I guess
the majority of people in West Roxbury are happy with
the bike lanes.
Speaker 8 (29:58):
Well, she didn't carry it by all that much. Not
what's wrong unless I'm wrong, But I remember reading the numbers,
and it's people.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, the fact that she carried it at all is
stunning to me. I mean, I remember the outage, you know,
the bike lane, and I know that it's made the
businesses on Santa Street have been miserable for them and
I just it's awful.
Speaker 8 (30:31):
I mean, you know, I I think people have just
given up or they're just not thinking.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
You know.
Speaker 8 (30:41):
That's yeah, because I can't think that anybody. I don't
want to say things like that, but I just don't
understand how people don't the way they do anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
There are some elections when I'm shaking my head. But
you know what, we all live in a democracy, and
we got we gotta deal with those issues. It's as
simple as that. Hey, let me let me run, Sandy,
Thank you for calling in. I want you to call
it more often. I need you. I need your support. Okay, thanksy,
I take him talk. So let me go to my friend,
my good friend, Harvey, Silverglade and Cambridge. I suspect Harvey
(31:15):
might disagree with me. Harvey, go right ahead.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
I suspect you know my position on our non prescription
archacterratist I do they should?
Speaker 4 (31:26):
You should all be legalized.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
What that would do immediately is number one, it would
provide it would turn a legal problem into a medical
problem and let the doctors deal with it. Number two,
it would put the NARCO states out of business. Number three,
it would reduce corruption law enforcement corruption by a huge factor.
(31:52):
I've spent the whole career arguing against my own self
interest on this, and yet it doesn't happen. And I
think the reason that doesn't happen is there was so
much money to be made that it will just never
legalizers drugs.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Harvey, let me ask you a real quick question, just
focusing for a moment on the distribution over the last
three and three quarter years of four and a half
million hypodermic needles. That says to me, it's a frightening
number that there are that many people out there who
need needles on the street. I mean, I'm stunned by
(32:33):
that number. I'm assuming you're going to tell me it
doesn't surprise you.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
It doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
How many Let me ask you, how many addicts do
you think of roaming the streets of Boston using that
number as either a denominator or a numerator.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Well, of course I haven't a way of knowing, but
it's clearly in the tens of thousands.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, I mean, and that to me, I mean, when
we're talking about fentanyl, that's a killer drug. Yeah, people
have died, but.
Speaker 6 (33:10):
It can't be dealt whether there's a law enforcement issue.
It's a health issue.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yep. Okay, well, look, I'm glad that you weigh in
with that point of view because it's a different point
of view. You're always welcome here on Nightside, and I
thank you. I got a bunch of lines. We're going
to try to get a give a few seconds to
a few callers here. Believe it or not, we got
the lines really hot right now. Thanks Harvey. People will
let's see what they have to say about your your
(33:35):
comment on it.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Okay, all right, thanks.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Thanks Harvy. Let me go to Ted and Everett. Ted,
you're next on Nightside. We're going to get you in
and maybe one or two more and go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Ted, Hey a long time. This is the second time
I've called where I had a follow up after Harvey.
That's like being a comment going up against Seinfeld. I'm
not nearly as smart as.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
You, so you believe that your point of view is
important to me, Go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I do agree with him more of a health issue
than a law enforcement issue, because the day that this
country goes after the bankers that launda the drug money
will show me that we're serious. I mean, how long
did it take us to get the money out of
Purdue Fama, which we clearly know led to the fentanyl crisis.
What I would like to see is, instead of giving
(34:19):
needles out, how about city run places. So let's say
I'm a hero, I'm out of God forbid. Yeah, I
go in there. They keep a register of it. But
then maybe after my third time going in, they say, look, Ted,
you've got to get into substance abuse recovery something, because
the point you made is right, this is just leading
to death. And I'm curious does the state release figures
(34:42):
because you know, besides Boston, you have Lawrence, which is
a big area of Brockton Cape cod has had a
terrible issue for ten years, so much so they made
a TV series about it.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question.
And I don't know. It would take you know, one
of the you know, major TV stations or major newspapers
to expend a lot of reporter shoe leather to gather
those information, uh, gather all of that information. And if
Boston is the epicenter, you're right, there's there's some other
(35:15):
little communities out there that are dealing with the same issue.
Simple as that.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
But then I love what you said about Collins. I
didn't hear that show, but that's that's a thinking out
of the box idea.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
That is a great think Yeah the box. You can
go listen to it and you go to Nightside and
demand if you want. It was last Tuesday the eighteenth
at nine o'clock. It was a good out.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
I'll do that.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Thank you, Ed, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Let me get at least one more in here. Kevin
is in Philadelphia. Kevin, you were next on Nightsiger.
Speaker 9 (35:41):
Right ahead, Yeah, getting me Dan. Thank you so much
for taking my call. And I'm glad I'm not selling
Harvey because he sounded like he was in your profession.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Yes, so.
Speaker 9 (35:55):
Some time ago, I don't know what year, but sixty
minutes did a program on the exact subject you're talking about.
So there was a brain surgeon for decades, I believe
it was John Hopkins, you know, and and operated on
the brain surgery. So then I don't know how he
found out, but he started treating drug patients with a
(36:20):
treatment through It was monitored on the computer with ultrasound,
and all of them pretty much were weaned off of drugs.
One cheated, he was kicked out of the program, and
he also had one elderly gentleman that was I believe
it was dementia. It wasn't fully cured. And you know
that there was an episode about his you know, with
(36:41):
his wife that he couldn't find something.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I'm getting tired, but anyway, I never saw follow upp.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Maybe you can have one one time do.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Me a favorite if you could track him down for me,
and I would appreciate it. Rob will give you my
direct email or my direct number, and I'll try to
find him. But at the same time you might have
a better sense of it, and so I'd love to
make you. Rob will give you my female and my
direct phone number. Folks, we have a guest coming up
on the other side of the ten. So for those
of you who are holding on, thank you for calling
(37:12):
and very appreciative. But we got to change topics. We're
going to talk next hour about the cost of Thanksgiving,
which to me, I thought was a little overrated this year.
I will explain, but first we'll talk with David Linsky.
He's a state representative from Natick, and he says there's
only two days a year when you cannot buy alcohol
(37:33):
liquor of wine in Massachusetts at package stores Thanksgiving and Christmas,
and he thinks that he will hears some thoughts. We'll
be back right after the ten o'clock news
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on ws Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I am not easily shocked, Thanks very much, Dan Watkins.
I am not easily shocked. But as I looked at
the front page of the Boston Herald today, the headline
is scharn syringe city hub hands out four point five
million needles. It's are you kidding me? Four point five
(00:34):
million needles? Now, let's I want to hear. If you
disagree with me, bring it on, that's fine, but this
number is to me astonishing. The piece is written by
Gayla Cawley. She's a reporter for the Herald. The headline
needle number shock. I was shocked four point five million.
(00:58):
Boston hands out millions of needles during Mayor Woo's tenure,
So going back to twenty twenty two, which would be
the mayor's first term in office. She was elected in
the fall of twenty twenty one, and I spec I
suppose I'm not blaming her per se, but I am
suggesting that I'm sure this is a set of circumstances
(01:20):
that she inherited, but it doesn't look like it's gotten
much better. In twenty twenty two, they handed out one million,
two hundred seventy nine thousand, five hundred and eighty four needles,
twenty twenty three one million, two hundred fifty six thousand,
four hundred and twenty four needles. I mean they keep
track of this, I hope. Twenty twenty four, last year
one million, one hundred fifty two thousand, one hundred ninety
(01:42):
two needles, and this year, so far through October thirtieth,
they're already at eight hundred forty five thousand, seven hundred
and twenty needles. Now, each year that it is dropped
a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit.
There was a pretty could drop off between twenty twenty,
(02:05):
twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, about one hundred
thousand fewer needles. This year it will get up over
a million needles. Again, I would suspect, but the internals
of the story are what is shocking. Now. If this
number does not shock you, and I'm naive, please feel
(02:26):
free to let me know that I'm naive, Okay, but
I want to I want to hit some of the
story here. The Boston Public Health Commission disclosed its medium
syringe distribution per month for twenty twenty two through Halloween.
(02:48):
Our last month, and I just ran through the numbers.
The bottom line is it's four point five million needles. Okay. Now,
the Boston Public Health Commissioner by Sola Oshikutu, I hope
I pronounced that name correctly. Basically, according to this Herald article,
(03:13):
did understate slightly the average per number of needles that
are given out to drug users. The boss the Boston
Public Health Commission, according to the article in the Herald,
in its records in its records response, declined to provide
figures for how much the city is spending on distributing
(03:33):
needles to drug users each year, but said it collects
more syringes through various programs that it distributes. Well, that's
good news, hall great. I don't know how this happens.
I mean, if they if they have people walking the
streets of Boston asking people if they want a needle,
if there are certain places that the uh, the addicts
and and I have. Let me tell you anybody who's
(03:55):
an addicted who's addicted to the needles, UH, to heroin, fentanyl,
and if they can beat that, God love them. But
I don't know that this is going to help people
beat it. It sounds to me like we have come.
We have met the enemy and they is us, and
(04:16):
they have said we will just give needles to people
to keep them healthy until they overdose. This is you
talk about transparency here and again, I know numbers are tough,
but please try to stay with me here if you can.
(04:36):
According to the Herald regarding yearly distribution cost, the Boston
Public Health Commissioner does not receive city appropriated funds for
the purpose of syringe distribution. The Assistant General Counsel wrote,
the funds that we use come from the Carmalta Massachusetts
and therefore we do not have any responsive records. So
we get the money from the Carmalta Massachusetts, but we
(04:57):
don't keep any records. Okay, that's that's pretty transparent. If
the Commission's budget line for quote risk reduction and overdose
prevention was approved just north of two million for this
fiscal year. With the year in which we're currently in
FY twenty six, the Boston Health Commission sent out a
request for proposals for harm reduction supplies in May of
(05:19):
twenty twenty four that noted the annual expenditure on supplies
is approximately in the range of one million, so we're
going up. We're going up from a million to two
million since fiscal year twenty twenty three, which would be
really twenty twenty three into twenty twenty four, excuse me,
would be twenty twenty two into twenty twenty three. The
(05:39):
City of Boston's received millions of dollars from the state
for its harm reduction, treatment and recovery experts efforts as
part of an opioid settlement with pharmaceuticals companies. Okay, so
the pharmaco pharmaceutical companies are paying for a lot of this.
The city will receive at least forty million dollars through
twenty thirty nine. That's going to be pretty close to
(06:00):
a million, maybe a million points something per year, and
that includes more than fourteen point seven million from FY
twenty three through the current fiscal years. So these are
in addition to the needles, the cost of the needles.
It goes on to say that, oh, they also hand
(06:21):
out a lot of other supplies condoms and dental dams
for safer sex, tourniquets, cotton pellets, saline and personal hygiene items.
The Public Health Commission, while including an extensive list of
harm reduction supplies in its request for proposals took issue
with The Herald's request for data on how many crack
(06:42):
pipes and other drug paraphernalia it distributes. Remember, there was
this whole big story that crack pipes were being distributed
and the city said no about a year ago, and now,
of course they are. Everyone understands it's true. Rather than
provide the information as part of its records response, the
Public Health Commission, according to The Herald, belittle the Herald's
(07:02):
chosen language quote. Boston Public Health Commission objects to the
use of the terms crack pipes and other drug paraphernalia.
Smoking pipes is an overdose prevention strategy that makes it
less likely for people to overdose compared to injections. Oh,
smoking crack better than injections. Okay, at least we know
(07:24):
that now. Pipes are also better for public safety because
they do not pose a biohazard risk to the public
if discarded improperly. Also, to the extent that you're requesting
pipe distribution information, Boston Public Health Commission does not have
reliable data to report accurate figures. Not much transparency there,
(07:46):
which are available in limited numbers, adding that the lawyer
was rejecting the request for other drug paraphernalia due to
it being vague and broad. Well, lawyers are good. It's
saying that's vague and broad. I can't answer that question now.
Of course, we all know about mass and casts, and
(08:07):
I wonder if passing out syringes over the last four
years four point five million syringers has helped mass and casts.
My suspicion is probably not, but I could be wrong.
Residents and how dear these residents in the South End
complain about the health and safety risk of discarded needles.
I mean it's their kids in the parks and playgrounds
(08:29):
that they're concerned about. I mean they don't see the
big picture. And their dogs also have a matter of fact,
one dog a guy had to knock can his dog.
According to The Herald, Ohikuto defended the city's harm reduction
approach at a city council meeting in early September as
(08:49):
key defending off HIV and other diseases that are commonly
spread through shared needles used for drug injection. If you
consider the number of times someone is using fentanyl, here's
a shocker, ten to fifteen injections per day. I thought
fentyl in small amounts can kill you. That's what we're told.
(09:11):
We're trying to decrease the risk of HIV exposure with
ten to fifteen injections of fentanyl. Wow, she said. The
city's Public Health Commission has identified a cluster of HIV
cases in the Boston region. Most of the more than
(09:32):
two hundred HIV cases in the region are connected to
mass and cast drug injection. I'm not surprised by that,
Ojakutu said, adding that the number would be higher without
the city's harm reduction approach. I'm simply going to open
up the phone lines. I don't care if you live
in Boston or wherever you live. But how have we
(09:55):
as a society degenerated to the point that we are
going to distribute four point five million needles. There's no
way that four point five million needles are being distributed
at safe injection sites because we don't have that many
safe injection sites in Boston, and even if we did,
(10:18):
you can't fit that many people into safe injection sites.
They must be handing these out like that the tobacco
companies used to hand out little packets of cigarettes to people.
Remember that it hands you into the new mentals. Yeah,
Try these, you'll like these. Try these, you'll like these.
It's the same principle, give them what they want, give
(10:40):
them what they want. But this is a sad commentary
on where we as a society are. Uh. And if
you disagree with me, and you'd like to make the
point that this is necessary, I'm happy to hear from
you as well on that, feel free to make your point.
But this is I think it's appalling. You know, if
(11:04):
you said that we had given out one hundred thousand
needles in the last four years, I would say something like,
that's kind of high. But you know, if it saves
a few lives, okay, But four point five million needles?
What are we are? We are we the drug capital
of America, the fentanyl, the heroin capital of America. Six
(11:27):
one seven two five four ten thirty lines were already
filling up six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
Someone who tried to get in all last night, UH
told me today that she had been calling six one
seven two five four ten thirty and got a busy signal. Well,
the other line is just as good, folks. Six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. Write that one down.
(11:51):
It's sometimes it's easier than the six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty. I'd love to hear from you,
and if you're a big proponent of this, and you
think that this program should be expanded and maybe a
couple of years from now, instead of giving out a
million hypodermic needles a year, we can give out to
a three million hypodermic needles a year. You know, just
just turn the lights out when you leave, Okay, and
(12:13):
uh and leave, leave all the addicts and leave as
many hypodermic needles as you want. This is, I think insane.
These people need help. They do not need I think,
you know, encouragement, uh for a lifestyle that is totally
destructive and is eventually going to kill them. And I
say that as someone I stand it. I stand behind
(12:36):
no one in my admiration. And I have a lot
of friends of mine who have beat addictions, whether it's
alcohol or or drugs. A lot of people don't be
fentanyl because fentanyl wins a lot in the end. Sadly,
join the conversation, coming right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's night Side with Yon's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
All right, So four and a half needles Hyperdemic hyperdemic
hypodermic Uh, Sirryn syringe needles just distributed free of charge
here in Boston. What does that say about our society?
I mean, there can't be that many true addicts. How
many addicts can there be? I don't know. That would
(13:23):
suggest a lot more than I realized. We'll go to
Jerry in West Roxbury. Jerry, you are first this hour
and nights. I appreciate you calling in your thoughts. Jerry,
go right.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Ahead, Hey Jan happy Thanks shivn uh right back at
you first.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
You know, when only when on?
Speaker 5 (13:37):
We just do what the best governor of all time
and the best mayor of Boston, Mayor wou and our
best governor of all time, Healy, It just blamed Trump
and the problem goes away.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I never thought of that. But that's not a bad suggestion.
That's not.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Blame Trump.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Blame Trump and a problem will go away.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately the problem is that Trump has closed
off the border, which I think is probably going to
make it more difficult to get to get fentamol. And
he's blown up a bunch of boats that are carrying
drugs up from Venezuela. Uh yeah, but did you did that? Number. Shock.
(14:18):
It really shocked me. Four point five million. There's only
six million people or seven million people in Massachusetts. Now,
I know that it's a limited number of people, but
how many needles does it addict need on any given day?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
You know, Apgiving, well.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You have a happy Thanksgiving. And I hope that somehow,
some way the city can actually come up with a solution.
We have basically, you know, opened up a Pandora's box here.
That's exactly what we have done. I remember when they
were discussing this and the idea of giving out needles,
and initially they said, well, we'll give them out in
(15:03):
safe injection sites like Vancouver. Larry is in Hingham. Hey, Larry,
welcome next on nightside.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
H good evening. You know, when daval Patrick was the governor,
it was his administration and his suggestion that you don't
need a prescription any longer to get a needle a
hypodermic instrument. And prior to that, it was it was
a crime to be in possession of a hypodermic instrument
without a prescription. But Patrick decriminalized that, and.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, all of that stuff has to be a step
at a time. We you know, decriminalize it or whatever,
and then or you can have it, and then we
make it available, We make it easily available. This number
stuns me. Four point five million, call me naive.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Well, you know, it seems like about six months ago
you had a youth football coach on your show talking
about the needle problem.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yes, Domingo's DeRosa. He was a candidate from mayor uh.
He actually finished third in the primary, and then they
did not allow him to be on the ballot after
Josh Kraft withdrew from the race, who had finished second.
It might have been interesting to see what sort of
(16:23):
a vote Domingo de Rosa would have gotten on the
ballot in a head to head with Mayor WU. But
that was not to be, and I think the Mayor's
office was not hal We did not look forward to
that prospect.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Things have not gotten any better. And you said earlier
you weren't necessarily blaming the mayor, Well, who do you
blame you?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I blame everybody here, the leadership across the state. I mean,
I have to assume that they're all drinking the same
kool aid, because if you live in a district, let's
say a congressional disc trick that you're not impacted by this.
Uh you probably say, well, it doesn't really matter to me,
(17:07):
but I kind of imagine. I just think that there
is a push within the Democratic Party on a number
of fronts, and you you have to stay in line.
Everybody has to run a sanctuary city.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
We we don't want to cooperate and get illegal criminals,
criminals who are here who have committed crimes while they're
here or have come here, and there serious criminals. We
we want to always focus on, uh, the mom and
her and her child, and and those are all wonderfully
sympathetic cases. And there can be exceptions to the rule.
(17:43):
But look at you see what Look at what what
happens in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
You know the people who are who.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Are being burnt alive on on you know, trains, and
what happened to that woman down in Sharp, North Carolina.
And then when they went into Charlotte this week to
uh to to have a presence of ice. All those
folks are out there protesting. They didn't protest when the
guy stabbed and killed the Ukrainian woman on the on
(18:15):
the train in cold Blood. I don't understand the priorities
of these people. Who I assume are relatively intelligence to
you intelligence.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I will tell you that. I will tell you this.
A lot of people in your business have politicians on
the show this shows and they talk all about this problem,
but nobody does nothing. And I'm not going to mention
any names about Boston councilors, but they're always on the radio.
The bottom line, they do nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Well Boston. Well, Boston is a city. Comes back to
your question. Boston is a city where the mayor is
an incredibly powerful Tom Manino was a powerful mayor. Marty
Walsh was a powerful mayor. There are some cities that
are set up so that the city council is is
the mayor is more of a figure. That's not so
in Boston. Uh. You know, I do think that to
(19:05):
getting back to your original question, that I think Mayor
Wu has to be feel some responsibility for this, But
at the same time, it's a problem that she inherited. Uh,
and it's a problem that the National Democratic Party seems
to seems not to care about. I almost think to
some extent that a lot of the leading politicians, particularly
(19:30):
in the Democratic side, uh, look at these poor human
beings as collateral damage, meaning that it's better for us
to to to express our support and opinion and really
do nothing for them, and they're probably going to die.
(19:50):
But by by virtue signaling, we're going to pick up
more votes than we would. It's there's an agenda here
in my opinion, Larry, and it's not good for the addicts.
It's not good for the people who live in the
communities that the addicts now thrive in.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
And maybe it's I think society. But the mayor was
too busy picking out Christmas trees and playing the piano
to people. How they're with this stuff?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Well, I think you can make that point. I mean
she she had a lovely family trip to Nova Scotia,
and I thought that she did very well with the
photo ops up there. And yeah, so, I mean, I
don't think that she's looking at this number tonight and
talking about it with either her family or friends and saying,
we got to get this number down because four point
(20:37):
five mil. We've reached the tipping point where you know,
how many needles can we give out? I mean, it's
do we give out? Do we eventually give out three
million a year, two million a year? What do we do?
Speaker 4 (20:50):
I don't know, Well, if you lived over there and
one of your children had sandals on or something in
the steps on one of these things, the kick could
have a major health problem.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
No more. Well, I will say this, and maybe I'll
go to upset some people with this. I've done several
hours on this story from the point of view of
the residents and mass and Casts, and there are a
lot of really brave people in Mass and Casts will
come on this program in that South End area. But
you know, Mayor WU carry the South End, So apparently
(21:21):
the majority of people in the South End must be
pretty happy with their policies. Don't you think.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Sounds that way The people have spoken.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, it's well, of course the voter turnout wasn't great,
but there were probably a lot of people who figured,
well this this this race is is concluded, and if
they're not going to take the time to go vote,
that's that's their problem. Larry, I appreciate your input, I
really do, and I hear the disappointment in your voice.
I wish there was something that I could turn around
(21:50):
and do. All I can try to do is open
this up for conversation and give people an opportunity to
express themselves and I'll see. I'll see what sort of
response we get after this news at the bottom of
the hour.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Thanks a prey, Thanksgiving, Dan, Happy Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Same to you, my friend. Thank you much. All Right,
we got open lines here, and if this does not
bother you, maybe it'll come to your neighborhood if you
live in the South End.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I never imagined four point five million needles being given
away for free. I mean it's like the city becomes
an accessory to the drug abuse, is what it comes
down to. It's as simple as that. Now. I know
that there were some of you out there who say, well, no,
we need to keep people safe and give them their
individual needs. I understand that argument, but what about trying
(22:35):
to actually work and get people off this stuff. There
are people who have beaten it. And if you've beaten
it and you want to talk about it, I have
wide open lines here, which is always discouraging. It says
to me, if you don't care about the problem, we'll
move on to something else. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten
thirty lines are open. We can talk about this, or
(22:57):
we'll talk about something else. Coming back on the other side,
after nights that if you live in Boston, this should
worry you. Trust me, it should worry you.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Night side with Dan Ray, I'm telling you Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
We're talking about it really an unbelievable number, although I
believe it's a believable number that Boston in the last
three plus years, nearly four years, in fairness, have given
out four point five million, four and a half million
(23:33):
needles hypodermic needles to drug users. I guess in an
effort to keep them safe. But I'm wondering if keeping
them safe in the short term is worth the long
term impact. Let me go to Kevin in Webster, Massachusetts,
far away from Boston, but I know where Webster is. Hi, Kevin,
(23:54):
how are you.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
I'm doing well, Dan, thank you. I hope you can
hear me. Okay, I'm on the highway.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, I hear you perfectly.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Go great.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
I'm actually driving out of Boston going back to central
mass So it's a little topical and I only caught
the tail end of that exchange. But I think there
are two points, and I think the first point is
probably more important. One is with this program with the
clean needles, I'll say personally, I support it because I
do think, you know, keeping people healthy in general probably
a good thing to the alternative, but it really doesn't
(24:25):
solve source the problem. It's treating the symptom of use
and eating those needles in the first place. So I think,
on the one hand, it's not really doing anything, I'll
say honestly, But I think that the second point is
where does the buck stop? Who does take responsibility to
these sorts of things? The Clean Needle program is great,
(24:48):
but what's the follow up?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Well, I don't know that there's a follow up. Here's
my question to you. I don't know if you're a
numbers guy, but numbers on the radio are tough. But
if if you had no listen to the show tonight
and I had said to you, how many clean needles
do you think Boston had distributed two people in the
last say three and a half years, do you think
(25:13):
you would have given me a number anywhere close to
four point five million?
Speaker 7 (25:17):
YEA, Honestly, it probably would have been guessed, but it
wouldn't have been that high. I guess definitely would have
been that high.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Is a overstarishing figure. I mean, how many how many
fentle addicts are there in Boston. Okay, I mean, I
don't know. If there are five thousand fental atticts in
Boston who were roaming the streets, you multiply that by
three hundred and sixty five days a year, and then
(25:43):
you multiply that by four. I'm going to do the
math in the next break here. But four point five million?
Oh my god? Are they handing them out like in
you know when you when you go and buy a
case of beer, you get twenty four beers, but it's
one case of beat who but it's twenty four? It's
twenty four beers. Are the handing out needles in packets
(26:06):
of twenty four? How do you get to four point
five million?
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Well, I'll tell you what I used to work off
of the other side of mass and cast. But you know,
people walk down the street and having seen it, having
driven by it, you know, for weeks, day after day.
I can't say I'm too surprised with the numbers, but yeah,
how do you even wrap your head around it? How
do you move forward from that? I think.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Honestly. I had a crazy idea the past couple of
days that I've been thinking about since very topable but
I almost think if we want to stop that, you
need to bring back to the old way of doing
things with the state institutions, you know, statesylums. I guess
the word for it sounds like that word, but you know,
(26:52):
if someone can.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, we had stated we had state senator, a state
Senator from South Boston, Nick Collins, on and last week
and and he's he's talking about a program UH that
UH that is really very interesting when you think about it.
What that program would do is, uh, it would force
(27:14):
people into into programs where they would have to participate.
And and he's also talking about purchasing a cruise ship.
The city would purchase a cruise ship. I don't know
if you remember, I had forgotten about it, but there
was a huge gas explosion back north of Boston up
in kind of mac Valley area, UH and there were
(27:36):
I think thirty five hundred people who were brought in
here to UH to to fix the lines and just
an incredible workload. They brought a cruise ship in UH
and and basically that was their headquarters where they where
they stayed. They didn't have enough hotel. So it was
an innovative idea that Nick Collins has come up with,
(27:58):
and I think it's I think it would be critical,
critical to at least consider it in view of this.
This is this is an astonishing figure to me. But Kevin,
I very much appreciate your approach and disagree with me
in such a gentlemanly fashion. And I thank you for calling.
Have you called before? Says your first time.
Speaker 7 (28:20):
I've actually called before. It's probably a year year and
a half ago. As energy we were talking about. I
made a call on about pro nuclear energy.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Well, do me a favor, don't be a stranger, come
back more often, a thoughtful call. Appreciate it very much.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks Dan, Thanks Kevin.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Talk to you soon, quick break, coming right back here
on Nightside. We will finish up. We will probably switch
topics at ten, So if you want to get in,
get in now six one seven, five four ten thirty
or six one seven, nine three thirty all points of view,
All welcome.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And the phone lines got hot here, going to go
quickly to Sandy and West Rocks. Sandy, thank you for
calling in as a Boston resident. I'm appalled. I'm stunned
at this number.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
Yeah, it is pretty frightening. Sometimes I think, rather than
have a city council which is pursuing the the aims,
not I don't think of the majority of the people,
but they should just let put all of these things.
I mean, my my tax dollars, they are tax dollars,
(29:27):
everybody's tax dollars, you know, instead of pointed to places
where they really needed, this is where the money is going.
And they should just put out a you know, put
everything on of the out let. People vote on this.
I can't imagine that.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
The problem city is people look at look at West Roxbury,
West Roxbury. Uh, you had the bike lanes there and
uh and Mayor Will carried West Roxbury. So I guess
the majority of people in West Roxbury are happy with
the bike lanes.
Speaker 8 (29:58):
Well, she didn't carry it by all that much. Not
what's wrong unless I'm wrong, But I remember reading the numbers,
and it's people.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, the fact that she carried it at all is
stunning to me. I mean, I remember the outage, you know,
the bike lane, and I know that it's made the
businesses on Santa Street have been miserable for them and
I just it's awful.
Speaker 8 (30:31):
I mean, you know, I I think people have just
given up or they're just not thinking.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
You know.
Speaker 8 (30:41):
That's yeah, because I can't think that anybody. I don't
want to say things like that, but I just don't
understand how people don't the way they do anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
There are some elections when I'm shaking my head. But
you know what, we all live in a democracy, and
we got we gotta deal with those issues. It's as
simple as that. Hey, let me let me run, Sandy,
Thank you for calling in. I want you to call
it more often. I need you. I need your support. Okay, thanksy,
I take him talk. So let me go to my friend,
my good friend, Harvey, Silverglade and Cambridge. I suspect Harvey
(31:15):
might disagree with me. Harvey, go right ahead.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
I suspect you know my position on our non prescription
archacterratist I do they should?
Speaker 4 (31:26):
You should all be legalized.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
What that would do immediately is number one, it would
provide it would turn a legal problem into a medical
problem and let the doctors deal with it. Number two,
it would put the NARCO states out of business. Number three,
it would reduce corruption law enforcement corruption by a huge factor.
(31:52):
I've spent the whole career arguing against my own self
interest on this, and yet it doesn't happen. And I
think the reason that doesn't happen is there was so
much money to be made that it will just never
legalizers drugs.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Harvey, let me ask you a real quick question, just
focusing for a moment on the distribution over the last
three and three quarter years of four and a half
million hypodermic needles. That says to me, it's a frightening
number that there are that many people out there who
need needles on the street. I mean, I'm stunned by
(32:33):
that number. I'm assuming you're going to tell me it
doesn't surprise you.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
It doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
How many Let me ask you, how many addicts do
you think of roaming the streets of Boston using that
number as either a denominator or a numerator.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Well, of course I haven't a way of knowing, but
it's clearly in the tens of thousands.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, I mean, and that to me, I mean, when
we're talking about fentanyl, that's a killer drug. Yeah, people
have died, but.
Speaker 6 (33:10):
It can't be dealt whether there's a law enforcement issue.
It's a health issue.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yep. Okay, well, look, I'm glad that you weigh in
with that point of view because it's a different point
of view. You're always welcome here on Nightside, and I
thank you. I got a bunch of lines. We're going
to try to get a give a few seconds to
a few callers here. Believe it or not, we got
the lines really hot right now. Thanks Harvey. People will
let's see what they have to say about your your
(33:35):
comment on it.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Okay, all right, thanks.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Thanks Harvy. Let me go to Ted and Everett. Ted,
you're next on Nightside. We're going to get you in
and maybe one or two more and go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Ted, Hey a long time. This is the second time
I've called where I had a follow up after Harvey.
That's like being a comment going up against Seinfeld. I'm
not nearly as smart as.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
You, so you believe that your point of view is
important to me, Go right ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I do agree with him more of a health issue
than a law enforcement issue, because the day that this
country goes after the bankers that launda the drug money
will show me that we're serious. I mean, how long
did it take us to get the money out of
Purdue Fama, which we clearly know led to the fentanyl crisis.
What I would like to see is, instead of giving
(34:19):
needles out, how about city run places. So let's say
I'm a hero, I'm out of God forbid. Yeah, I
go in there. They keep a register of it. But
then maybe after my third time going in, they say, look, Ted,
you've got to get into substance abuse recovery something, because
the point you made is right, this is just leading
to death. And I'm curious does the state release figures
(34:42):
because you know, besides Boston, you have Lawrence, which is
a big area of Brockton Cape cod has had a
terrible issue for ten years, so much so they made
a TV series about it.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question.
And I don't know. It would take you know, one
of the you know, major TV stations or major newspapers
to expend a lot of reporter shoe leather to gather
those information, uh, gather all of that information. And if
Boston is the epicenter, you're right, there's there's some other
(35:15):
little communities out there that are dealing with the same issue.
Simple as that.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
But then I love what you said about Collins. I
didn't hear that show, but that's that's a thinking out
of the box idea.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
That is a great think Yeah the box. You can
go listen to it and you go to Nightside and
demand if you want. It was last Tuesday the eighteenth
at nine o'clock. It was a good out.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
I'll do that.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Thank you, Ed, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Let me get at least one more in here. Kevin
is in Philadelphia. Kevin, you were next on Nightsiger.
Speaker 9 (35:41):
Right ahead, Yeah, getting me Dan. Thank you so much
for taking my call. And I'm glad I'm not selling
Harvey because he sounded like he was in your profession.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Yes, so.
Speaker 9 (35:55):
Some time ago, I don't know what year, but sixty
minutes did a program on the exact subject you're talking about.
So there was a brain surgeon for decades, I believe
it was John Hopkins, you know, and and operated on
the brain surgery. So then I don't know how he
found out, but he started treating drug patients with a
(36:20):
treatment through It was monitored on the computer with ultrasound,
and all of them pretty much were weaned off of drugs.
One cheated, he was kicked out of the program, and
he also had one elderly gentleman that was I believe
it was dementia. It wasn't fully cured. And you know
that there was an episode about his you know, with
(36:41):
his wife that he couldn't find something.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I'm getting tired, but anyway, I never saw follow upp.
Speaker 9 (36:48):
Maybe you can have one one time do.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Me a favorite if you could track him down for me,
and I would appreciate it. Rob will give you my
direct email or my direct number, and I'll try to
find him. But at the same time you might have
a better sense of it, and so I'd love to
make you. Rob will give you my female and my
direct phone number. Folks, we have a guest coming up
on the other side of the ten. So for those
of you who are holding on, thank you for calling
(37:12):
and very appreciative. But we got to change topics. We're
going to talk next hour about the cost of Thanksgiving,
which to me, I thought was a little overrated this year.
I will explain, but first we'll talk with David Linsky.
He's a state representative from Natick, and he says there's
only two days a year when you cannot buy alcohol
(37:33):
liquor of wine in Massachusetts at package stores Thanksgiving and Christmas,
and he thinks that he will hears some thoughts. We'll
be back right after the ten o'clock news
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