The “Confusing” Trial of Karen Read Part 1

The trial involving Karen Read, who is accused of killing her then boyfriend John O’Keefe is in its third week of trial. There have been nearly 40 witnesses who have testified, making it what Dan calls a “confusing” trial. The defense claims Read is being framed while the prosecution is trying to prove she hit O’Keefe with her car and left him in the cold to die. Dan wants to know, will a confusing case lead to an acquittal?

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
It's night side Day on Boston Radio. All right. We haven't talked about
the Karen Read case much, allright, And part of that reason is
there was a lot of a circusside circus stuff around it. And I

(00:25):
again I I've got to always behonest with my audience. I watched it
and I thought to myself, thisis this is out of control. I
mean, this is really out ofcontrol. And I thought, well,
once once the ghost to court,we'll see how it plays out. And
it seems to me that in courtit is equally out of control. I

(00:51):
know that the judge has a verygood reputation, but you have a case
here that one day you say,oh, that's a great point. The
next day you say that's a greatpoint. I'm looking at the front page
picture of the Herald today. Idon't know how many of you still get
a Herald at home, but I'mlooking at the picture of Karen Reid in

(01:15):
focus. Looking at this, Iguess friend of hers, or now maybe
a former friend who was on thewitness stand yesterday. And if looks could
kill the headline the sub headline inthe Globe story, really the headline is

(01:36):
cold hearted, and I don't knowany of the people involved in this case,
no idea who they all are.The names have kind of flown past
me. Obviously. I know whothe defendant is. Everybody knows Karen Reid.

(01:57):
We knows what she is accused ofdoing. Okay, But and just
I haven't watched any of the trialas it's been fed live. I think
it's been fed by local TV stations, if not on their station. I
think they did the opening arguments.I did watch the opening arguments by the

(02:20):
prosecution and the defense, but thisone's it is an unbelievably complicated story for
what seems to be at first blushpretty simple story. So if you happen
to have a viewpoint, whatever thatviewpoint is, I'd like to sort of

(02:42):
not in panel a jury per se, but I'd love to know what my
audience thinks. Are all of youas confused as I feel I am,
or have any of you come toa conclusion. I mean, someone said
to me today, well, itmaybe it's something something as simple as the

(03:04):
defendant inadvertently backed her car up,hit the boyfriend and didn't realize it and
drove away, woke up the nextmorning and said where is he? And

(03:25):
then it started from there. Idon't know. On the one hand,
I remember listening to the prosecutor putthe case, put his case in,
or I should say, his openingarguments. Then I listened to the defense
lawyer. I think David Ynetti isthe defense lawyer, and he seemed to
do a very credible job. Ijust the more I see of this,

(03:47):
the more confused I am. AndI'm beginning, if I had to,
I guess, articulate what my thoughtis right now. My thought right now
is that the defense is trying tothrow as much stuff against the wall as
possible so that this jury is goingto look at one another in the jury

(04:11):
room and say, how can weconvict her of this? There's just too
much information. I am befuddled.I'm befuddled. So that's what we're going
to talk about. I'm going toopen up the phone line six one,
seven, two, four, tenthirty. There's so many questions. I
mean, I just can't imagine whatthe lawyer's bills are for Karen Reid.

(04:34):
They have to be astronomical, justin terms of the amount of time that
is being spent in court and inpreparation for the case. Obviously, someone
I talked with about today and Isaid, well, the prosecutors, they
work for Norfolk County. They getpaid a salary, so it doesn't really

(04:55):
matter how long this trial is.From their perspective, this salary will be
paid by Norfolk County, there's noquestion about that. But the defense lawyers,
those bills have to be astronomical.I don't know if she has a
some sort of a gofund me page. I can't imagine that any individual,

(05:19):
unless they were a multi millionaire,could afford the legal defense that they have
that she has been able to present. So again, I'm open minded on
this. It's as simple as that. I'd love to know what all of

(05:39):
you think. I generally kind ofhave an instinct on something like this,
and I truly don't. I reallydon't. I just I mean, I
can tell you my theories, butI would prefer to hear from you.
Okay. I have thoughts, Ihave theories, and I'm not interested in

(06:00):
in saying things which is going toput people in one direction or the other,
because I'm not sure. I'm notsure. I went through this many
years ago in a post conviction setof circumstances where four men who had been
wrongfully and intentionally convicted of a murderthey didn't commit. I took my time.
We were fastidious in terms of makingsure that people who were coming forward

(06:24):
with testimony we vetted them. Thisis the Selvadi case, along with the
attorney that I worked on with thecase, Victor Garrow of Medford, who
had worked on the case for fifteenyears, sixteen seventeen years before I even
got involved in it as a reporter. But I looked at it now again.

(06:45):
I had papers, transcripts that Ilooked at and put me It allowed
me to arrive at conclusions, andthose conclusions then were reinforced when witnesses came
forward, and it was compelling.And the men who spent one hundred and
nine years in prison. Those ofyou who don't remember the story, you

(07:05):
can go google it. The personthat I was working on behalf of an
innocent man, Joe Solvati. Heand three others, two of whom had
passed away died in prison, twomen named Greco and Timelio. Luis Greco
and Henry Timelio passed away in prison, and Peter Lamoni and Joe Soovati walked
out as free men, and theywon one hundred and sixteen million dollars between

(07:29):
the four of them, which againsounds like a lot of money, but
not if you've spent, in thecase of Joe Sovadi and Peter Lamoni,
thirty or thirty three years in prisonfor crime you didn't commit a crime that
you were not involved in. Sothe justice system is very significant. It's
important, it's serious. We don'twant a miscarriage of justice. Either way,

(07:53):
we air on the side of caution. I think our justice system tends
to air on the side of cautionby making the prosecution prove the elements of
case, all the elements of acase beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the
way it should be, hopefully forevermore. A lot of other countries around
the world do. It's just theopposite. The only lines that are open
right now are six, one,seven, nine, three, ten,

(08:16):
thirty. Your thoughts on the KarenReid trial, If you're as confused as
me, I'd love to hear fromyou, because I do follow this stuff
in the newspapers, I really do. But this is one that and I
spend a lot of time trying tofigure it out. This is I'm befuddled,
simple as that color me be fuddled. We'll be back on Nightside right
after this. Now back to Danray Line from the Window World Nightside Studios

(08:43):
on WBZ the news radio. Okay, I'm gonna go to phone calls again.
Normally I have strong opinions, youknow, reasonable opinions, but strong
opinions. I don't really have anopinion on this case. I would not
want to bet any amount of moneyon his outcome, but I'm sure some
of you might see it differently.We'll start off with rich in Mansfield.
Hey, Rich, welcome, firsttonight on night Side. Goright ahead,

(09:05):
Rich, Hey, thanks. Ijust want to say, from day one,
as soon as they saw this,she is innocent, okay, and
quite frankly, from what I observed, there is more than enough shadow or
doubt that the during these pillows.Now they can go to sleep and say

(09:28):
she's off, okay, and don'ttell me that the cops aren't in her
brotherhood. So hold on for aseconds. You made a strong statement.
What makes you believe she's innocent?How everything was presented? Okay, there

(09:50):
was not anything strong in my opinionthat left her at the scene doing anything
or in evidence. I let mejust let me make sure I understand you.
Okay, I'm not trying to arguewith it. I just want to
learn. My understanding is that sheand her boyfriend drove to this after this

(10:16):
home for a couple of nightcap drinks. She decided to drive home. He
got out of the car. Soyour sense is that he got into the
house and and some problem ensued insidethe house, or that there was a
brawl outside. What do you thinkhappened, Bloody Knuckalls, you know don't

(10:37):
happen. I don't fall down thestairs when I'm drunk. Well, actually
I do. But you know you'rean honest man. Okay, So so
you're telling me, and again Idon't want to drag it out of you.
Tell me you think in your mindthat somehow he went in the house
ended up in in a fight.Uh, and they just put him out
of the lawn to let him die, no if they want out for a

(11:01):
breath of fresh air, and finishedthem off. Really okay? Yeah?
All right? And and you arguethat, bring somebody on that's gonna tell
me different, because I want toupset your fans. That's why I'm here.

(11:22):
I mean, have I fired youup? Man? Well? You
certainly have given me a theory thatthat I've not heard before. I mean,
people have said that, you know, something horrible happened in the house
and and they put him out onthe lawn. But no, he's standing
out for fresh air fresh all right. Okay, that's that's your theory,

(11:45):
and you're convinced of it. I'mnot I want you to change anybody's mind.
I want you to know that.I'm just I'm trying to understand how
people come to their conclusions. That'sall I want to tell you offline,
how the cops of breaking crooked upand down. Yep. Well again,
that's a little bit of a generalismsomething. Okay, thank you, Rich,

(12:09):
appreciate it very much. All Right, So you heard Rich. I
think his mind is pretty much.I don't think he would have made a
juror. Let me go to Patand Franklin, Massachusetts, like, Pat,
how are you, hi? Dan? Thanks to taking my call.
I just had to call you onthis. I have watched this trial since

(12:31):
day one, and I have watchedevery night the recap on any CN that
they have for the trial. ButI've watched every bit of it, and
evidently from what they said tonight,on the recap that the big day is

(12:52):
going to be tomorrow. This BrianHiggins and nobody knows who he is,
but he was supposed to have beenat that bar I forget the name of
it. Okay, okay, Sohe's Is he a police official of somebody?
I think I think he I thinkhe is a policeman, but I

(13:16):
don't know. I don't know thatfor sure. Okay, okay, So
what makes what makes his testimony andhis appearance so important? Why are they
I don't know, that's what.There's an NC in tonight and I hadn't
even heard of him before. Letme ask you this. You've watched it
all, okay, I've watched StoneOkay, is this the first time you

(13:37):
called my show? No? Iused to call you from Walpole, I
mean a sister now and Franklin gotokay, well, okay, well thanks.
So I have watched every single hour. Okay. So at this point,
at this point, what what isyour theory? Are you still like
me confused? I'm not confused.My opinion is that regardless of what went

(14:05):
on, they had an argument,and going back to that fairdue house,
I think they were still arguing inthe car both of them have had a
lot to drink, and she wasyou know, I think she had a
lot to drink, and he couldhave got out of the car, but

(14:26):
I don't think he went into thehouse. I think, you know,
she backed out of the driveway becausethe car was in the driveway at one
point, and it was outside thefront of the house where he was found
at another point. And I thinkshe hit him by accident. Okay,

(14:48):
So that's I mean, I don'tmean, but I think it just you
know, she she just tried totake off and leave him there, and
well she might not have known ifit was And I don't think it has
anything to do with the police coverup, Okay. So you and it
was snowing heavily, you know,it just started started snowing, I guess

(15:11):
around noon midnight there, don't you. Yeah. I saw some of the
video, just you know, bitsand pieces of it, and it did
look like it was it was comingout pretty good, coming down pretty good.
And of course, if he hadbeen drinking, and you know,
he got hit by that tail rightby the back of the car, then

(15:31):
you know, he might have notbeen able to get up by the way,
and so he laid there in thecold, you know, with the
snow, and she probably didn't evenrealize what happened until she came out of
her little super you know, whenshe woke up in the morning. Yeah.
Well, uh, my suspicion isthat if he was hit, you

(15:56):
know, by a car and therewas a lot of force in it and
and fell, that he would havebeen in trouble. If he got bumped
and got knocked over. I assumedthat at some point he would shake it
off and be able to get out. Yes, well, I think that
that at that point when it happened, it had just started to snow,

(16:18):
so his head could have hit acurb, you know, the road itself.
That's where that's where autopsy forensics wouldwould come in. Handy that would
come in. But I don't youthink I think you don't think that there
was any malevolence. You think thatthere might have been an argument, Maybe
they were upset, but she's amthey were both drinking. Yeah, and

(16:41):
I think that's what happened. Okay, Well, you know, when when
the jury finally comes down, itwill be the jury who has the word,
not you and me. But no, I know that, But watch
Brian Higgins tomorrow, because I don'tknow who he is, and somehow they
think that's going to take that's goingto pull him into of this in the
house. I don't think that,mister Keith. Everyone in the house yeah,

(17:07):
well again, Lawyers who I've talkedto have said, boy, it's
pretty tough if you did go inthe house and if there was something right.
I've been waiting for you to starttalking about this case well because I
stayed away from it because it justseemed there was so many people who yeah,
and so this I finally got tothe point where I said, we
got to talk about it, andyou was thinking carefully as I do every

(17:29):
day. You know, I'll tellyou one thing that Jackson Lawyer, her
defense attorney, is excellent. Idon't know where she's getting money from him,
but he is excellent. I thinkif there's a gofund me Karen read
case, I mean, I don'tassume that there's anybody in any of these

(17:51):
families. I mean, they looklike just regular folks. That there's no
one in the families on either sideor any of the sides who have pockets
as deep as that, that's forsure. That's my opinion. Thanks.
Pat, so great to hear yourvoice. I hope you're doing well,
and thank you. I am.I am continuing to listen to night Side.
I really appreciate it. I havebeen listening for thirty years to Busy.

(18:15):
Okay, well, I'm the newkid in the block. I've only
been here, so I've listening toyou. I think about seventeen years.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. But I was, okay you God,
don't forget my TV time before that. I did some good stuff on
TV too. No, I knowthat, I know that. I just
I've just been watching this so intently. The reason I did that, by

(18:37):
the way, Patt, is somany people who I will meet somewhere they'll
say to me, gee, Iknow you're off TV. What have you
been doing? Have been doing theradio? No, it's a week and
it's like, oh, I didn'tknow that. So tell your friends.
Okay, I'm listening to you.Thank you very much. IM. Thanks
good night. By all right,six two, ten thirty. The only

(19:02):
lines that are open. We gota newscast coming up. Be right back.
You're on night Side with Dan Rayon WBZ, Boston's news radio.
I have checked out. I guess. There is a go fund Me page
for to benefit Karen Reid. It'sorganized by lawyers out of Los Angeles,
including the lawyer, or at leastone of the lawyers who's representing her.

(19:27):
The description is Karen reads a formerfinancial services professional and college lecture. On
January twenty ninth, twenty twenty two, Karen discovered her boyfriend, Boston police
officer John O'Keefe, dying in ablizzard outside the home of another police officer.
Karen has been wrongfully accused of John'smurder, but it is investing everything
she has to fight for her freedomand for justice for John. Funds are

(19:48):
being raised to pay expenses related toKaren's legal defense, including legal and expert
fees and costs. All surplus proceedswill be donated to the New England Innocence
Project of cam Massachusetts. The donationsare not tax deductible, but they have
a goal of raising a lot ofmoney three hundred and fifty thousand dollars and

(20:10):
apparently as of today they have almostraised well, they're a little over three
hundred and nineteen thousand dollars, sothey're very close to their goal and two
eight hundred and twenty eight people havedonated a total of three hundred, nineteen
thousand, one hundred and ninety twodollars, and they were donations made today.
Anonymous fifty, anonymous fifty, anotherperson one hundred, another person fifty.

(20:34):
So this is a it's an expensivetrial. Let me go next to
Tony in Los Angeles, California.By the way, I did notice that
I think the Read case was highlightedtoday on Fox News, so it's now
starting to make some national headlines aswell. Tony, Welcome back to Night's
Side. How are you Dan?Hi? It is in Los Angeles,

(20:55):
the story is everywhere, and theman called you the first Party show just
now a while back, saying thatthis lady was innocent. Okay, she's
so guilty, and we believe thatin Los Angeles she backed up and killed
that man. And people here haveto understand it's like a Perry Mason episode.

(21:19):
She's guilty. Let's just finish itup. Well, she's guilty.
See, you know, I wantto hear all the evidence. And the
other thing which I've learned Tony,and I've said this before, that it's
very difficult unless you sit in thatcourtroom as a Draer day in and day
out. And it seems to methat this trial has been going on now
for at least the six weeks I'massuming, and yes, it's probably going

(21:42):
to be another six weeks. Thisis this is going to be a longer
trial than the former president Trump's trial. And need to realize is that in
order for the prosecution to succeed,they have to convict her beyond a reasonable
doubt, which is a high standard, and they have to get twelve jurors

(22:06):
to agree. Even if one jury, oh, you could get a hung
jury. So we will have tosee. I got to be honest with
you, I don't have a realgood sense of it because I've read it
and watched it, but they haven'tread it and watched it as I would
like to, meaning on a dayto day our basis. You advance,
you're convinced she's guilty, huh guilty, And the folks that I know in

(22:27):
La assume that she is very guilty. So I don't know for sure,
of course, And by the wayof one of her two lead lawyers,
this fellow attorney Jackson, is withthis law firm out of Los Angeles.
So I suspect that's probably why it'sa play. That's right, Tony,

(22:47):
great call. Thank you very much. More. One more thing. I
mean this, since with all myheart, Dan Ray for president. We
need you now, Dan more thanever. I'll never give up this job,
even for the White House. Trustme on that. Okay, good
night, Thank you very much foryour support. Nonetheless, if nominated,
I will not run. If felectthat, I will not serve. I

(23:11):
figure that was I think that wasGeneral Sherman if I'm not mistaken, but
it's also been I think Lyndon Johnsonsaid that in sixty eight as well.
We're going to go next here.Nancy is in Quincy, a little closer
to home. Nancy and Quincy welcome. How are you good? Thank you?
How are you? I'm doing great? Do you have some thoughts on
this case, because I'm totally concernsing. I want to say that one of

(23:33):
the best person witnesses that I thoughtreally laid it out clearly was yesterday Carrie
Roberts. Do you go back andread what she said. I don't think
she knew the mccaves or was thatthe party. She definitely wasn't at the
bar she knew Karen vaguely because shehelped babysit or get the O'Keefe's kids the

(23:59):
sporting event, and Karen was involvedin that too. I don't think that
she's a friend of Karen's, butKaren called her when she woke up and
realized that O'Keefe wasn't there, andthey went together to look for him.
She was the most truthful witness ofthe case. And the other thing that
I was able to find out isthat one of the nephews of the mccaves,

(24:26):
which is the house where the issuewas, had it out for O'Keefe
because his name is Colin, andhe was riding around speeding and throwing beer
cans on people's lawns and O'Keefe sightedhim. Huh, so that may have
something to do. I was tryingto figure out where this all came from.

(24:47):
So you think that the witness yesterdaywas helpful? Karen? She was
very helpful, And I think ifyou're confused, if you go back and
read her testimony, which should beon the NCM website, word for word,
it's very clear the steps they tookand what they did and where they

(25:10):
went. So let me just Ijust I just want to make sure.
And again, Nancy, you knowmuch more about this than I do.
So this witness whose last name wasRoberts, Kerry Roberts was one of the
was with Karen read the night thaton the morning she woke up, realized
that John John wasn't there yet,called her and she went over, picked

(25:33):
her up and took her back tothe house. Yeah, with another there
was another woman in the car,believed who Jan McKay, who also testified
yesterday. I think the other thingI think is important here is that even
if she hit him with the car, I don't think she could have killed
them unless his head hit something thatwas on the lawn, and no one

(25:56):
has said that because he had ahead wound to the back of his head,
his eye was all swollen. Carrietalks about that his fifth was all
swollen and his arm was all stretchedup. That would not happen from a
car accident. He might have abroken leg or a broken Herefore, I'm
figuring out that did you believe thathe got out of did it went into

(26:19):
the house where he went? Theysaid he never went in the house,
but I think he was invited tothe house, so that the guys could
maybe beat him up, but Idon't think they meant to kill him,
but they did, so I wishshe did it. Worst case scenario in
your mind is it was an accident. But but if you were on the
jury, you're not going to findher guilty of him other than an accident.

(26:44):
By the way, you went tohigh school with my husband. Really,
yeah, Boston Latin School? Okay, yeah, Boston the same year
were we out? Was he outin sixty six? Yeah? You were
in his class. Okay, Well, I hopefully whenever we have the next
reunion, I'll see you there.Okay, No, he's gone, he
passed away. Oh I'm sorry,Nancy. Nancy, Well, do me

(27:08):
a favor. I tell the onthe air, but give Rob the last
name, so I can you knowwe have lost members of the class.
And I'd love to just say aprayer if you would. Thank you.
That's nice of you. But hey, whenever we heard you on the radio,
he know, or the TV,he said, I met the high
school with him. That's how Iremember. But don't just give on this

(27:34):
case. I really think that you'vegot to look at the facts. Oh,
that's what the jury, that's whatthe jurist. I haven't had the
forensic auto guy yet, you knowwho would be able to say, no,
this didn't happen. As far asI know, they haven't had the
medical experts who could explain how hegot a wound to the back of his
head that doesn't happen from an autoaccident. This, this case is going

(27:57):
to go for weeks. I meanwhen this is going to go well into
June, maybe later. I know, I'm fascinated by it. I just
retired and I finallyself watching it.Well, congratulations, but do me a
favorite. Don't hang up. Rob, will get the name of your husband,
and I just want to remember himfor a couple of moments. Agay,
sure, don't hang out. ThanksNancy, Rob, get that name

(28:18):
for me. We'll take a quickbreak on Nightside. My name is Dan
Ray. Six one, seven,two, five, four, ten thirty.
We'll get you on. Give usa call, coming right back on
Nightside. Now back to Dan Raylive from the Window World Nightside Studios on
WBZ News Radio. All right,back to the phone, you go.
Let's go to Dave in San Antonio. Dave, I'm surprised you're calling on

(28:41):
this one. Are you familiar withthis case down there in San Antonio.
I got foundily in Boston, Bob, I mean Bob, Dan got frindly
in Boston. Uh. Yeah,what do you think Hagen's is an ATF
agent? Okay, it's good toknow. And the defense thinks that Higgins

(29:03):
may be the one that killed them. They're looking at anybody they can find,
that's for sure. Well so isthe prosecute looking at any way to
prove. And one of the copssaid that he talked to her and she
confessed, and they have there isno proof that he talked to her,
no records whatsoever that he talked toThat was a lie. The cop lied,

(29:27):
he said I talked to her.She said she hit him, and
she didn't say anything to him.She didn't talk to him. And if
the cops said that, well,armed with this information. So so you
think I assume that this is aframe up. Yeah, well that was
ink. Yep, guys, Imean you know, you know, Dan,

(29:49):
alcohol is legal, tobacco is legal, firearms are legal, and the
state can handle that themselves. Whatthe heck are they doing taking our tax
dollars? That's a whole different story. David buch a bunch of inadequate gig
bats that are paper paper someone andand it's it's a scene. It's a

(30:15):
it's a This whole government is acrazy scene right now, the way they're
spending on money on everything. Butwe'll get we'll get a little far drift
from the case. I'm gonna I'mgonna let you go on this one because
I got a bunch of others.But thanks for your appreciate it, David,
Thank you. That's all. Havea good one. Let's go next
to Carroll down to this houth shorea little closer to home. Hey,
Carol, next on nights. Igo right ahead. Hi Dan, thank

(30:38):
you for taking my phone call.Thank you for calling. I've been following
the case because it isn't the sosure, and I believe that it is
a setup that uh, it wasnot properly investigated from the very beginning.

(30:59):
That there was one report where hisphone showed the steps of him walking in
the house and I don't know andI never heard anything else about that.
He did have a contentious relationship withthe homeowner's nephew, Colin Albert. They

(31:21):
lived a couple of doors away fromeach other, and it was contentious.
I believe they were all drunk.I believe he went into the house.
Karen. I don't think she hithim. He had, as one of
your calls previously said, his oneof his eyes was like a golf ball
and his face was bruised, armswere bruised, scratches. It's not something.

(31:48):
And then I think today the defenseattorney was asking Jen McCabe about the
phone call she made to say howlong does it take to die? And
yeah, there was some controversy aboutthat. A tough time following that.
Yeah, right, And she said, oh, I didn't make that phone

(32:10):
call, but it was on herphone. Yeah, there was some question
I think about the timing of it, and yeah, it was before he
was dead. It was two thirtyseven am or something. And then she
had woven a story that, oh, at six thirty I called, or

(32:30):
five thirty I called because Karen askedme to call. It's all intertwined.
And they're saying that Karen Read previouslyhad a relationship or a fair with this
ats hidden agent. Whether that's trueor not, I don't know, but
that's what the prosecutor is saying.So I think they're going to try to

(32:53):
bring her in. But well,we will see putting you down to someone
who thinks that she was set upand framed, and when the when the
verdict comes in, we'll probably doa post a story on when that vertic
comes in. I hope some ofyou will call back and either say I

(33:14):
told you so or maybe maybe not. Okay, Thanks Dan, Thanks very
much, Thank you, Carol.Okay, let me go next to Sandra
from Carver, Massachusetts again down onthe South Shore. Sandra, next on
Nicety, what do you think?Well, I'll tell you I'm not watching
this every day. I'm listening tothe news and trying to piece everything together.

(33:35):
But one of your last callers saidthat the nephew was has had a
citation from the police officer that waskilled. That's what they said. I
don't know, you know, again, I don't know if that's the truth.
That's actually the way I was thinking, just a gut feeling. But
if that was true, he leftthe party early, and you I don't

(33:58):
really know what time the police officerwas dropped off by Karen Reid. I
think I think that from what I'veread, somewhere around twelve thirty. You
know, none of that is precise, but pretty such right, they had
said that the nephew left at twelvethirty and if he had an altercation with
the you know, the police officerthat had given him the citation, he

(34:19):
probably beat him up well, andhaving been under the influence, he was
not able to defend himself. Soyou're suggesting, at least what I'm hearing
you suggest is that that again,you think she's innocent and this is a
frame job, right, Okay,I'm I'm all for law enforcement also,

(34:40):
I totally am yep, I getthat all right, Thanks Andrew. I've
had some interesting calls in this.Let's keep rolling. Thanks Andrew, talk
to you soon. Yeah, byebye, thank you, bye, thank
you. Daniellen Wilson, you're goingto wrap the hour for us here,
go right ahead. Heyd Hi,Danielle, how are you? I love

(35:00):
to know what you said. Ihaven't been laser focused on this thing for
over a year now, and Ifeel so bad for Karen. Honestly,
she is one strong cookie. Letme tell you to be discomposed as far
in and and she's never even beenable to mourn her boyfriend. Let's forget

(35:22):
let's remember you know she there wasa restraining orders she couldn't even go to
his services. I feel so bad. This is the most disgusting, convoluted,
twisted case probably in the history ofMassachusetts. And this is bad,
bad, bad, bad, AndI absolutely cannot wait until Younetti. I
believe it's gonna Unetti, who hasa field day with Higgins and something at

(35:44):
the post. The defense hasn't evenpresented their case there, we're still on
the prosecution side. Doesn't even feellike Karen reads on child, but like
the albuts have been on child.But yeah, that is an interesting aspect
of it that you identified. You'reabsolutely right, yeah, I mean,
so everything's been on cross for thedefense. You know, they haven't even
presented their witnesses or well, itdoesn't take a rocket scientist to look at

(36:07):
his injuries and say a vehicle didn'tdo that. It doesn't take a rocket
scientist to look at his arm andsay a dog did that. I mean,
come on, this is Higgins isso there's just so much with him,
it's not even funny. Like whenthey were leaving the waterfall, he

(36:27):
didn't know that Karen and John werecoming there. So when she shows up
now he had a romantic interest inher, and that never went anywhere.
I think she hung out with amonth and maybe they exchanged a quick kiss
or something, but nothing major.And they walked into the waterfall. He
never if you look at the video, he never interacted with John. Everybody

(36:50):
else did, but he did not. And then when they were leaving,
he texted Karen, well like thisyear thing and then or raally or something
like that. And then he endsup texting John asking him to come,
like pretty much coaxing him about comingto Fairview. Uh and and all this

(37:13):
happened at the same time that youknow the nephew there, Colin. She
said he was leaving to bro Hesaid he was getting a ride. If
you look out the front door,the side door, which is also a
front door, the side door pushedback a little bit, so you're standing
looking out the front door, youcan't see the door unless you physic go
down the stairs and look over.So you're just looking out. You can't

(37:34):
see. There's like a little overhang, and it was throwing out Danielle and
on. But she is at Igive her a lot of credit for her
strength. And you think she's frayed. We'll see what happens Danielle, Hey,
I got my Dan Ray sweatshirt inthe mall? Did Jim so excited?

(38:00):
Yes, that's great, Thank youso much. We'll talk soon.
Okay, thanks very very much.I'm going to continue with this into the
next hour, So if you're onthe line, Mary and Kevin, you
stay right there, and if younot give us a call, we will
want to continue this into the nexthour for a while. I got a
couple of topics I want to getto, but this one is interesting.
It's seems like most people think she'snot guilty.