January 6, 2026 • 38 mins
Bradley Jay Filled in On NightSide
Massachusetts is experiencing a massive surge in flu cases across the state. Health experts say low vaccination rates and a rapidly spreading influenza A strain are making it an early, intense flu season. Is it too late to get the flu vaccine? Have you or your family been rocked by the flu recently? Dr. Shira Doron, Chief Infection Control Officer for Tufts Medicine and Hospital Epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center, talked to Bradley about the explosion in flu cases and what you can do to try and avoid it!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice. I'm going easy Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Well, all right, let's do this. Thanks for being with me.
Bradley Jay in for Dan Ray. It is night Side
on a Tuesday, I believe. Please let me know if
that's not right. Here's what's going to go down today.
We're going to talk about the flu. I need to
know if you got your vaccine yet, and I need
(00:27):
to know if not, why not. I need to know
if you had the flu and if it was devere
supposed to be really, really bad. And I mentioned the vaccinations.
Did you get vaccinated? If not, why not? Are you
worried about the side effects of the vaccine?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
If so, which side effects? You just not like vaccines?
If have you ever taken a look at the side
effects of the vaccine versus the long term side effects
of the disease itself. With flu vaccine and COVID vaccine,
I do want to find find out about some other
(01:04):
vaccines like r SV. I have a question about that.
My doctor actually initially told me not to get it.
And he was an old school doctor. He was not
anti vaxx at all. He was gung ho and all
the other vaccinations. Told me initially hold off on that
I'm hearing something about neurological symptoms. Then later on he said, yeah,
(01:26):
go ahead and get it, but I was a little
put off, so I haven't gotten it yet. Maybe we'll
find out what's the deal is with that. We certainly
have an expert on all that. We're going to have
doctor she Dora, chief infection control officer for Toughs Medicine
and a hospital epidemiologist at Tofts Medical Center. She's going
to talk to us about the flu and vaccines and
(01:49):
all that stuff. And then about quarter of nine, just
for one little segment, Michael Coin into the Massachusetts schol
of Law. It is going to check in to talk
about the hit and run, the alleged hit and run
on the comm aff. On the comm aff, mall get
(02:11):
some details on that. It's a strange and horrible, horrible story.
It's just so awful and there's a lot of there
are a lot of questions. And then we're going to
hear from Bridge Over Troubled Waters. I was on these
on the tee, which I love, as you know, and
I saw a tea advertisement for Bridge Over Troubled Waters.
(02:35):
Realized they do a lot for the community and I
should have them on, so we'll talk to those folks
as well, and then later in the night kind of
open lines. But I do want to share something that
happened to me on the way to work. I I'll
give you the little bit of a heads up on that.
(02:57):
I get on the MBTA. Well, first I get on
and it was really crowded, and I thought, with this
flu I don't like being in this crowded car. It
was in this woman had two kids and she's blowing
her nose, and I thought, oh, I'm getting off because
it was just too crowded. The next one was only
(03:17):
seven minutes away. I thought, I used my genius to
deduce that the next one might be less crowded. It was.
I got on that and I'm listening to my headphones,
listening to my music, looking at possible topics on the phone,
and a woman comes up and says, she says something
(03:37):
I can't hear. I say, I take out my earbuds.
Excuse me. She says, do you want to go to
church on Sunday? I said no. I didn't say it
exactly like that. I wasn't mean or anything. I just
said no, thanks, And I didn't want to be bothered.
But then I thought, weed a minute, I should talk
(03:58):
to her. I gotta find out what she's selling, what's up.
So I ended up talking to her from about Longwood
on the D Line to North Station, where I switched
to get on the Orange Line, and I asked her
a lot of questions about the Church of Latter Day Saints.
(04:18):
So I'm going to tell you what I found out
because I didn't know it and maybe you don't know it.
It's one thing to read it in a book or
hear it on a talk show, but for me to
actually talk to one of the one of these folks.
There are actually two of them on the train, working
in tandem, probably for safety, and it's very interesting. And
(04:39):
I'm going to ask you at that time, what do
you know about the Church of Latter Day Saints. I'd
like to learn more. I don't know much some of
you do. I've looked up. I learned a lot from
these two women. I don't think they'd lie. And I'll
tell you what my impressions, and I'm sure some of
(05:01):
you know a lot more about it than I do.
And I would love it if you would share. Now
back to the flu this year, Massachusetts Department of Health
reporting very high, very high, and rising levels of influenza
activity statewide as we move through this peak flu season
(05:24):
and lots of folks who are experiencing serious complications leading
to increased visits to the hospital. A lot of people
are going to the hospital, and emergency apartments are getting
packed and very unfortunately, this flu has already been reported
(05:46):
to be associated with the deaths of three pediatric patients,
and last week, every day there were about nine thousand
emergency department visits statewide in a day, approximately one quarter
of those related to acute respiratory illness, including the flu
(06:09):
COVID nineteen and this thing that's a mystery to me,
and I hope to find out more RSV. And one
question I'm going to have for the doctor is my
research tells me that they don't recommend RSV until you're
seventy four. Over seventy four, Why is that? Why would
(06:30):
you recommend waiting? Is it that they don't have much
of the vaccine or is it that there's something bad
about it that I don't know? Why would I got
to find out? Why would you wait till seventy four
if it's a good vaccine. It's not like you're immune
to it until seventy four. Now, the risks are associated
with the actual flu, you know, are far more severe
(06:54):
than the potential outside effects of a vaccine. I still
don't get why only thirty four percent of people in
Massachusets vaccinated for the flu this year. What is the deal?
I'm curious. I'm not yelling at you. I'm curious. What's
the deal? You just didn't have the time you're gonna bother.
You don't like the flu vaccine, you don't like getting shots,
(07:17):
or you fear the side effects of the vaccine. I
know many very smart people who don't trust vaccines, so
we can certainly talk about that. Where are you on that?
By the way, a flu can knock you down for
two weeks? Well, obviously the flu can kill you, but
(07:38):
flu can easily knock you down for two weeks a
few days to two weeks, high fever, extreme fatigue, muscle aggs, cough,
and sore throat. I can deal with them. Fatigue, I
can deal with the shakes and the muscle aches. But
the cough, no way. I hate coughs and I hate
(07:58):
sore throats. Serious complications can include pneumonia, inflammation of the
heart or brain, and respiratory failure. That's serious complications from
the disease. That's really bad compared to the few and milder, well,
(08:18):
the complications from the vaccine itself. I think, is it
that you just don't trust big business? Is it that
you don't trust big pharma? Honestly, I get that one
hundred percent. One hundred percent. You got to remember, any
public company, the people that run that have a fiduciary
responsibility to the shareholders. They do not have a responsibility
(08:44):
to you. That's a legal responsibility to make as much
money for the shareholders as they can, and that that's
unfortunate if the product they sell happens to be medicine.
So I understand the conflict there. We're going to get
this all sorted out with that our guests right after
this break on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay, let's try to stay healthy here. Let's try to
talk about the flu and how to avoid it, vaccines,
et cetera. With an expert. I'm not really an expert.
I don't even play one on the radio. We have
with us doctor Shira Doron, chief Infection Control Officer for
Tough's Medicine and hospital epidemiologists for Tough Medical Center, and
(09:31):
we're gonna talk about this flu season. Thanks for being with.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Us, doctor, great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No, how serious Excuse me, I'm not sick. I promise.
How serious is this the season this year? Not only
in terms of the numbers but the severity.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, the thing that we're most concerned about right now
with the flu season is how steep the curve is
in the upward throughout. It's really heading kind of straight up,
and so we don't know how far it's going to
get up there. We're not at the peak at the
(10:11):
level of last year's peak. We're pretty far from it still.
So you know, we've we've been worse and we've been
worse in the past year. The question is, you know,
we're we're actually a month earlier in the in the
curve than we were last year. So we're seeing the
same numbers today that we would have seen, you know,
(10:32):
in more like February of last year. So will it
given that extra time to go up, will it get
even higher than what we saw last year, which was
a bad flu season, or will it just peak early
and come down early, which is what we hope.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
How bad can it get? Can it get to the
point where, you know, the society kind of squeeches to
a hot like covid or Is flu never that serious,
never that big a deal?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
It certainly can and you know, certainly we've we've had
pandemic years where flu has you know, overwhelmed to some
extent hospital capacity. I mean, we have hospitals in our
state reporting that they have many, many patients waiting in
(11:18):
the emergency room for a hospital that so that's not
a situation we want to be in. So we don't
necessarily think this is a flu pandemic, but it's a
bad strain. And it's bad because you know, flu does
mutate and evolve over time, and in this particular year,
(11:42):
the virus mutated such that the vaccine that we have
been given isn't a great match to what's circulating. And
that happens. That happens, you know, quite often when it
when it's mutated like that, you know, not only can
we expect the vaccine uh to be less effective, but
we also don't have a level of community immunity against
(12:07):
the flu from prior infection. So even the last year
was a bad flu year and a lot of people
got the flu, that would normally protect us in the
following year, but it's not going to as well because
the virus is mutating. And that does that mean you
should not bother to go out and get a flu
shot because the bad match. No, quite the opposite. The
flu shot can still be effective, particularly at preventing severe disease, hospitalization,
(12:32):
and death, even when it's not a great match at
preventing infection. But what you're going to see is a
lot of infections.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
You know, I have a question I want to ask
you before I forget, and that is some people don't
wear masks because they say you can get the flu anyway.
But it seems to me that mass could reduce severity
because it could reduce the load you're infected with, and
maybe your body would have a shot at fighting off
(13:00):
one hundred thousand germs rather than a two billion. If
somebody cops right in your face without a mask, Does
the mask make a difference in severity?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Yeah, it's a great question. It's a theory. It's an
inoculum theory. Does the amount of germ virus in this
case that you get exposed to affect severity. It's been asked.
It's been asked about COVID, and it's something that's difficult
to study and has not been proven one way or
(13:32):
the other.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So you can't do it. There's no way to test
that you'd think there would be. You could introduce smaller amounts.
I'm not going to tell you anything you haven't thought of.
You can introduce smaller amounts in that test subject and
more in the other and see if on a routine basis,
the one that got the most viral load got sicker.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You're right, No, it could in a large study with
a lot of people getting introduced to whether it's a
potentially deadly virus, and so you know, the ethics of
that have been called into question and it hasn't really
been done.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Interesting. Okay, Now are you disturbed that only thirty four
percent of I had? The number I have is thirty
four percent of folks get vaccinated, and that's down a
little bit from last year, which I understand was thirty
six Those numbers I have, are those correct? And why
do two thirds of people not get vaccinated?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Yeah? I am disturbed, and you know I think a
little bit down from last year, but quite a bit
down from prior years. And that is a reflection of
this growing vaccine skepticism, vaccine hesitancy that we're seeing throughout
the country, throughout the world really and that we are
(14:52):
not immune to pun intended here in Massachusetts. And we
know what some of the reasons are for that vaccine
aptism as inc there is there is misinformation, but there
are other reasons. COVID really, you know, did a number
on our society in so many ways. And one of
(15:12):
the ways was that actually the way that some of
the aspects of the pandemic were handled, you know, by
science communicators, public health communicators even like myself, ended up
causing more distrust in some arena than by some people
of public health recommendations. And I think we have to,
(15:34):
you know, take ownership of that and figure out how
to reverse some of that. The decisions and the announcements
that have been made by the current federal administration and
federal health officials are unfortunately contributing to confusion, chaos, uh
and and skepticism about the safety of vaccines in such
(15:56):
a way that we are seeing lower vaccination rates that
do have the potential to increase, you know, the severity
of flu season in terms of how many people are
infected and hospitalized and how many people die from flu.
You did ask about the severity of the flu virus
this year, and you know, there's no reason to think
(16:16):
that it's a more dangerous virus other than that there's
not as much immunity to it because people are less
well vaccinated.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So people, Do you think people underestimate how nasty the
flu is?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean I think so, And I think that
what people might not realize is that the majority of
people who do develop severe flu and die of flu,
adults and children, actually don't have underlying medical conditions. Yes,
we know that there are risk factors for severe disease,
and if you are someone with a lot of medical problems,
you're at high risk for severe flu. But if you
(16:54):
have no medical problems, you still could get severe flu
and die from flu. And that's why they're a blanket recommendation,
or there was in the past from CBC for everyone
to get vaccinated against empluenza every year over the age
anyone who's over six months of age.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Have you done any studies on the reasons people are
hesitant besides the disinformation, other reasons, they're concerns why they
don't get the vaccine. It would be important to know
that to address that.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, I mean there are there are a lot of reasons,
and there is I don't want to imply that it's
not okay to ask questions and to wonder about whether
you know certain vaccines are safe put in your body.
There's a growing the love of being all things natural
(17:50):
in society, and in many ways that's a good thing.
People are eating healthier, people are questioning what they put
in their body in terms of chemical additives and food,
and vaccines can fullow to that category to some extent,
and so it's really important to have a trusted physician
who could talk to you about the pros and cons
the risks and benefits. And unfortunately, a very large proportion
(18:14):
of our society, even in Massachusetts, doesn't have a primary
care doctor, and that plays a role as well, and
you know, not being not having the tools to educate
the public about vaccine.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
All right, you're a trusted for physician, So why don't
we take a bit of time after this break too
speak to people about the risk versus the reward. The
risk of long term flu, severe flu, and the complications
of that versus the perceived complications or the complication the
actual complications of the vaccine. The risk reward seems to
(18:49):
me of not getting a flu vaccine is out of
whack and it doesn't make sense risk reward wise. And now
I understand people were nervous about covid vat they hadn't
tested that MNRA that that type of vaccine at least
that's what the folks thought. I kind of get that,
But people have been getting flu vaccines for a long time.
(19:10):
It's free. I mean no, there's no such thing as
really free. But you don't have to pay any extra
to get it. It's easy, and it's it's it can
help you anyway. We'll break and we'll talk to Jeff
in Abington and we'll continue with our doctor in a
moment on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Only thirty four percent of you, approximately I've kind of
vaccinated against the flu. Why And we're also going to
talk continue with our guest doctor Shira Doron to explain
the risk rewards to doubters. Maybe we can save a
couple of lives and certainly save a lot of misery.
Let's go to Jeff and Abington. Hello, Jeff, what do
(19:58):
you What do you have for us? He must have
accidentally hit the button that was not me when my
hands were in the air. He'll probably call back doctor.
Let's start on the risk rewards. People fear the side
effects and I I don't know if that's reasonable or not.
(20:18):
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, the food shot is really one of the most
the safest vaccines that we have. Most people will feel
soreness in their arm. I don't like it, but it
does only last usually a day, maybe too Some people
get some, you know, other symptoms like a low grade fever,
(20:43):
headache and muffle ache, but really not commonly and and
nothing like what people are used to experiencing from the
those MR and A COVID vaccines that we're also familiar with.
There are these very very rare side effects, so you know,
you can anybody can be a ar to anything, so
you could have an allergic reaction, very rare, and then
one in a million, there's a condition called gionvary syndrome
(21:07):
and neurologic disorder. You said yeah, one in a million.
And so as you said, you know that your risk
of getting a bad complication from the flu is way
higher than that, and your chance of getting the flu
in a season like this is very, very high. So
when you when you put those two things together, that
(21:29):
you are likely to become exposed to the flu this
season and that your risk of getting a severe complication
from the flu is high, the risks certainly are outweighed
by the benefit of YA.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So what are the complications. We need to spell out
the complications of severe flu that can take place that
are severe. I don't think that gets factored in. People
factor in only the downside of the vaccine. They don't
factor in the downside of getting the disease. So talk
about those significant downside of getting the flu that may
(22:03):
affect a person forever.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Exactly. And you know, I think some people also don't
realize that the flu is influenza and that's not your
common cold. And so you know, the common colde that
you get that just is a new sence for a
few days. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking
about the flu, which typically comes on like a ton
of bricks all of a sudden with the severe body aches,
high fever, and cough. Even a regular run of the
(22:29):
mill out of the flu will send you to bed
for a few days and will generally be associated with
a cough that lasts four weeks. Six weeks is typical.
But then there are additional complications. I mean, it's very
common to end up in the hospital, to end up
in the ICU, to end up on a ventilator needing
(22:50):
help breathing, and there are long term complications. So people
are very familiar with long covid flu does the same thing.
We're respiratory problems that linger heart come location is extreme fatigue,
dysfunction of almost any organ, and so we see this
all the time in my field. And that's why you
know you won't find an affectious disease doctor that hasn't
(23:11):
gotten their annual flu shop.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
All right, let's talk to Jeff again. We'll see how
it goes. Jeff and Abington.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Hey, how come you hung up on me?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It did not hang up on you. I might not
sure where he's going with that. Can you continue, please? Doctor?
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:29):
So, you know, I think that there is a lot
of confusion out there regarding vaccines. We just heard that
the CDC is changing its vaccine recommendations and that that
they're not going to be recommending annual flu vaccination. And
(23:50):
that's unfortunate, right we we we are now well aware
that the CDC has been making changes that have deviated
from the process that we've become accustomed to, which involves
an external advisory committee of well vetted experts, an opportunity
(24:11):
for the public to weigh in. That has changed under
the current administration. CDC has been making sweeping recommendations that
change schedules that have been in place for and guidelines
that have been in place for a long time that
were well supported by scientific evidence. And the result is
that here in a state like Massachusetts, we're lucky the
(24:36):
state Health Department is stepping in and making its own
recommendations for vaccines. Organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics
are continuing to make their own recommendations, but they're going
to differ from those of the CDC. And so I'm
recommending that people follow state guidelines, American Association of Pediatrics
(24:58):
guidelines rather than CDC. And that's a very uncomfortable thing
to say, but unfortunately it has to be said.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
So what basis of this is the CDC making these
recommendations that are counterproductive. Is there any scientific basis? Do
you why? Is my question? You must have some insight
as to why they why? He why they say this?
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah? You know, had the usual process been followed, where
an advisory committee meets in a public fashion where I
could watch the meeting and they would go over all
of the research that led to a decision to make
a change, I could tell you what that scientific evidence is.
(25:45):
But this was all done in a very secretive, opaque
manner without the usual evidence base to support the recommendations.
And what we keep hearing is that the recommendations have
been changed to match a specific country, Denmark vaccine guideline. Well,
we aren't Denmark. In many ways we differ from Denmark,
(26:08):
and so that doesn't seem like it's compelling reason to know.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
But on the other hand, they're a first world country
and they seem to be doing very well. What is
Denmark's theory? Why do they recommend the way they do.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Well?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
It's interesting because the public health official from Denmark has
come out and made a statement saying that you know,
Denmark's vaccine schedule doesn't actually work for the United States
of America. They have a different demographic, they have a
different level of health, they have a different health system,
they have different epidemiology of diseases. I mean, there are
(26:50):
vaccines that we don't give in the United States that
are given in other countries because we have low levels
of certain diseases compared to other countries. You know, there
are simply different recommendations different parts of the world based
on epidemia.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Probably Denmark's folk people are in better shape for one thing.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
They are they're healthier, they have better healthcare, they have
a more effective healthcare system. Everybody has healthcare, free healthcare,
and they have a single unified health record, so that
wherever you go in a healthcare system, somebody can look
and see have you been vaccinated? Have you been tested
for certain things. It really does change what the recommendations
(27:29):
should be.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Okay, a personal question, RSV. My doctors initially said, don't
get it. There's some questions about neurological symptoms. Maybe he
was talking about gambar. But then later he said, to
get it. Why the hesitation on his part there, Yeah,
doubt about it till recently or something.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
So this is this is actually a perfect example of
how the United States CDC in a typical year is
not is not just trying to be heavy handed and
recommend all vaccines for all people all the time. Here
was a vaccine that was brand new, the RCV vaccine,
and because it was brand new and because it had
(28:09):
so far been studied only in a relatively small number
of people when it came out, the recommendation was for
shared decision making, meaning have a conversation with your doctor.
There were some side effects like gan beret that were
seen in the study. There were also people who really
seemed to benefit from the vaccine. The older you are,
the more you benefit from the vaccine. And so the
(28:31):
first year that the vaccine came out, it was recommended
as an option, talk to your doctor see if it's
right for you. After a year of experience, the CDC
changed the recommendation. So it reviewed the recommendation changed them.
It said everyone over seventy five should get the RSV vaccine.
If you're between fifty and seventy four, then you should
(28:53):
get the vaccine if you have risk factors for severe RSP.
So that's just a great example of how todays isn't
just trying to tell everybody to get vaccines all the time.
We use the science, we use the evidence, we use
the epidemiology, and we use the experience from prior years
to adjust the recommendation.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
All right, so the recommendation is now currently get RSV
if you're over seventy four? Is that correct? Correct?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Over seventy four?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And why is it not until seventy four? Again?
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, So the risk for severe disease goes up with age,
so the cutoffs the cutoff is seventy five and up.
But if you're between fifty and seventy four and you
have risk factors for just severe disease, heart disease, lung disease,
neurologic disease, then you should get it. And if you're
pregnant between weeks thirty two and thirty six of pregnancy,
(29:45):
you should also.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Get Okay, thanks, I wish we had more time. I
hope you come back and we'll go through more more
diseases and talk more for a full hour. Can we
can we do that?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
We'd love to, all right, sure.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Thank you so much. Doctor. Next, we talked to Michael
Coin to get some his legal angle on the hit
and run the incident on Commonwealth Avenue in Boston. That's
coming up next on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio,
we have a quick.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Visit from Michael Corndina, the Massachusetts schol of Lot, to
talk about the circumstances of that alleged and run on
Commonwealth Avenue. Michael, thanks for being with us. I'll ask
brief questions and due to the lack of time, I
guess we have to have succinct answers. But what's the
latest news on this case.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well, the latest news on the case is that he
has been sent to Bridgewater for evaluation, and in these circumstances,
the evaluation, at least initially is going to focus on
whether he's competent to stand trial. So there's two issues
that will ultimately be outstanding his competency to assist with
his defense and to make knowing and intelligent decisions with
(30:59):
respect to how he wants to defend. The bigger question
ultimately will be whether he is legally criminally responsible for
his actions what most people commonly refer to as the
insanity defense, which appears likely is going to be the
ultimate defense in the case.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Okay, I should have outlined this for folks who live
in other areas and may not be aware the case.
We have a big, long, beautiful street in Boston called
Commonwealth Avenue. A man and his dog was struck by
a vehicle and a person was arrested for it, and
his attorney well as I understand that his attorney says
(31:41):
that he is not well and is not mentally well
and hopes that they may change the charges once the
evaluation has made one are the charges.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Currently the charges will be first degree murder, and that's
what he is facing because Comonwealth believes that there was premeditation.
He was asking someone immediately before this had he seen
the man in the red coat walking a dog, and
that he appeared to turn the vehicle deliberately towards the
(32:19):
mister Axelrod and his dog and in the process then
ran over them and killed them both.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, by the way, murder one and cruelty to animals?
Do you happen to know the penalty of cruelty?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, exactly. I should have. I should not have minimized
the additional charge. I do not. I think I thought
it's somewhere between three and five years, but I did
not check it out because if in fact he's convicted
of the first degree murder charge that carries with a
life in prison without the benefit of the role. So
(32:50):
the additional charge for the loss of the dog won't
truly be meaningful if in fact he's convicted a first
degree murder.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
All right, I heard that perhaps he It has been
floated that perhaps he was mistaken it was in case
of mistaken identity, and perhaps intended to run over someone else.
But so I ask you, does that make a difference legally? No, No,
(33:21):
that's still he intended. If you intended to kill someone
and you killed the wrong person, are you still on
the hook for malice of forethought and murder? One?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yes, exactly rightly, You're still intended to kill someone. The
fact that you were mistaken as to who you wanted
to kill is a is not a defense to an
intentional murder, and it undercuts the insanity defense argument. If
in fact you truly intended, the fact that you were
mistaken as to identity, uh as to the person doesn't
(33:52):
help you escape liability for the murder. What it means
is that you understood what you were doing and likely
understood that it was wrong, but he chose to kill
whoever the person is that you believed he was.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
My resource says that he acted I should perhaps abnormally
or disconnected or in a way in during his his arraignment.
I guess yep, okay, in a way that might lead
persons to believe that he was mentally ill.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, how easy is it for a psychologist to tell
if a person's faking.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
No, They generally trained professionals will be able to do that.
But just so everyone's clear, it's not enough to say
that he had a mental illness or that he suffered
from some type of mental disease and the like. It's
that because that happens, and people have all sorts of
mental problems, but that doesn't mean they're not criminally responsible
(34:57):
for their acts. What you would have to show is
that he did, in fact suffer from a mental disease
or defect such that he could not understand that his
actions were wrong or conform his actions to the law.
It's it's actually a very high standard. It is rarely
accepted by the juries because it is such a heavy
(35:18):
burden for the jury to accept that despite what their
problems and the mental diseases were, that at the end
of the day, they didn't understand that there was something
grossly wrong with killing another person.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So you could be intensely psychotic for a long time
and still be on the hook for murder one because
you even though you may have still be able to
understand what you were doing at the time, you may
not be delusional all the time when you have a psychosis,
(35:56):
and so you have to prove that this person was
unable to understand their actions at the time of the actions.
Not just a history of mental illness does not get
you off the hook.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
No, and even a present mental illness, even a present
existing mental illness, it's been alleged that you had a
change of medication, he was on medication for in fact
under treatment for mental illness. That in and of itself
is not going to excuse the murder of another person.
You're going to have to show that he could not
and did not appreciate that his actions were in fact wrong.
(36:33):
So it's a too pronged part of it that makes
it very hard for a defendant to successfully argue that
their mental illness excuses their liability for the murder of
another person.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Okay, one final question. I really appreciate the answer to
these nuanced questions. Sure does it matter if he never
had met or known the.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Victim now now, because he could still form the intent.
And it appears, at least from some of the evidence
that we've already heard, that he went looking for this person,
described him to a passerby, and that person directed him
to where they had last seen the individual with the dog.
(37:18):
So no, you don't have to know the person to
intend to cause their death, and that would be the
argument here. Even if, as you pointed out, he believed
he was someone else, it's still there is still evidence
that he intended to do harm to the person who
was in the red coat walking the dog, and in
fact carried out that direct It's horrific.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Do you have any any other observations before we said no,
it is horrific.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
You've got a fine citizen of the Commonwealth who's done
a lot of good and likely has met his end
despite because of no fault of his own, just wrong place,
wrong time, and even as you pointed out, beautiful part
of the city, to have such a horrific action take
(38:04):
place there, it is shocking.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I appreciate the time, at this late hour and on
such short notice. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Very much, Mike anytime.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Bradley, Okay, that's Michael Coin. He's my man, he's my
legal man. There were calls that we didn't get to
because we switched the topic, and we can address the vaccinations,
your reasons for not getting vaccinated, and actually the fact
that they're basing their decisions federally on the Denmarks practices.
(38:36):
That's pretty interesting to me because I like a lot
of Denmark's practices, So I'm super interested in what you think.
That's later in the evening hang around, and also if
you want to talk about the incident on Commonwealth Avenue,
and again it's a terrible thing for both the human
victim and the dog. That's so sad. It's w b
(38:56):
Z
It's nice. I'm going easy Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Well, all right, let's do this. Thanks for being with me.
Bradley Jay in for Dan Ray. It is night Side
on a Tuesday, I believe. Please let me know if
that's not right. Here's what's going to go down today.
We're going to talk about the flu. I need to
know if you got your vaccine yet, and I need
(00:27):
to know if not, why not. I need to know
if you had the flu and if it was devere
supposed to be really, really bad. And I mentioned the vaccinations.
Did you get vaccinated? If not, why not? Are you
worried about the side effects of the vaccine?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
If so, which side effects? You just not like vaccines?
If have you ever taken a look at the side
effects of the vaccine versus the long term side effects
of the disease itself. With flu vaccine and COVID vaccine,
I do want to find find out about some other
(01:04):
vaccines like r SV. I have a question about that.
My doctor actually initially told me not to get it.
And he was an old school doctor. He was not
anti vaxx at all. He was gung ho and all
the other vaccinations. Told me initially hold off on that
I'm hearing something about neurological symptoms. Then later on he said, yeah,
(01:26):
go ahead and get it, but I was a little
put off, so I haven't gotten it yet. Maybe we'll
find out what's the deal is with that. We certainly
have an expert on all that. We're going to have
doctor she Dora, chief infection control officer for Toughs Medicine
and a hospital epidemiologist at Tofts Medical Center. She's going
to talk to us about the flu and vaccines and
(01:49):
all that stuff. And then about quarter of nine, just
for one little segment, Michael Coin into the Massachusetts schol
of Law. It is going to check in to talk
about the hit and run, the alleged hit and run
on the comm aff. On the comm aff, mall get
(02:11):
some details on that. It's a strange and horrible, horrible story.
It's just so awful and there's a lot of there
are a lot of questions. And then we're going to
hear from Bridge Over Troubled Waters. I was on these
on the tee, which I love, as you know, and
I saw a tea advertisement for Bridge Over Troubled Waters.
(02:35):
Realized they do a lot for the community and I
should have them on, so we'll talk to those folks
as well, and then later in the night kind of
open lines. But I do want to share something that
happened to me on the way to work. I I'll
give you the little bit of a heads up on that.
(02:57):
I get on the MBTA. Well, first I get on
and it was really crowded, and I thought, with this
flu I don't like being in this crowded car. It
was in this woman had two kids and she's blowing
her nose, and I thought, oh, I'm getting off because
it was just too crowded. The next one was only
(03:17):
seven minutes away. I thought, I used my genius to
deduce that the next one might be less crowded. It was.
I got on that and I'm listening to my headphones,
listening to my music, looking at possible topics on the phone,
and a woman comes up and says, she says something
(03:37):
I can't hear. I say, I take out my earbuds.
Excuse me. She says, do you want to go to
church on Sunday? I said no. I didn't say it
exactly like that. I wasn't mean or anything. I just
said no, thanks, And I didn't want to be bothered.
But then I thought, weed a minute, I should talk
(03:58):
to her. I gotta find out what she's selling, what's up.
So I ended up talking to her from about Longwood
on the D Line to North Station, where I switched
to get on the Orange Line, and I asked her
a lot of questions about the Church of Latter Day Saints.
(04:18):
So I'm going to tell you what I found out
because I didn't know it and maybe you don't know it.
It's one thing to read it in a book or
hear it on a talk show, but for me to
actually talk to one of the one of these folks.
There are actually two of them on the train, working
in tandem, probably for safety, and it's very interesting. And
(04:39):
I'm going to ask you at that time, what do
you know about the Church of Latter Day Saints. I'd
like to learn more. I don't know much some of
you do. I've looked up. I learned a lot from
these two women. I don't think they'd lie. And I'll
tell you what my impressions, and I'm sure some of
(05:01):
you know a lot more about it than I do.
And I would love it if you would share. Now
back to the flu this year, Massachusetts Department of Health
reporting very high, very high, and rising levels of influenza
activity statewide as we move through this peak flu season
(05:24):
and lots of folks who are experiencing serious complications leading
to increased visits to the hospital. A lot of people
are going to the hospital, and emergency apartments are getting
packed and very unfortunately, this flu has already been reported
(05:46):
to be associated with the deaths of three pediatric patients,
and last week, every day there were about nine thousand
emergency department visits statewide in a day, approximately one quarter
of those related to acute respiratory illness, including the flu
(06:09):
COVID nineteen and this thing that's a mystery to me,
and I hope to find out more RSV. And one
question I'm going to have for the doctor is my
research tells me that they don't recommend RSV until you're
seventy four. Over seventy four, Why is that? Why would
(06:30):
you recommend waiting? Is it that they don't have much
of the vaccine or is it that there's something bad
about it that I don't know? Why would I got
to find out? Why would you wait till seventy four
if it's a good vaccine. It's not like you're immune
to it until seventy four. Now, the risks are associated
with the actual flu, you know, are far more severe
(06:54):
than the potential outside effects of a vaccine. I still
don't get why only thirty four percent of people in
Massachusets vaccinated for the flu this year. What is the deal?
I'm curious. I'm not yelling at you. I'm curious. What's
the deal? You just didn't have the time you're gonna bother.
You don't like the flu vaccine, you don't like getting shots,
(07:17):
or you fear the side effects of the vaccine. I
know many very smart people who don't trust vaccines, so
we can certainly talk about that. Where are you on that?
By the way, a flu can knock you down for
two weeks? Well, obviously the flu can kill you, but
(07:38):
flu can easily knock you down for two weeks a
few days to two weeks, high fever, extreme fatigue, muscle aggs, cough,
and sore throat. I can deal with them. Fatigue, I
can deal with the shakes and the muscle aches. But
the cough, no way. I hate coughs and I hate
(07:58):
sore throats. Serious complications can include pneumonia, inflammation of the
heart or brain, and respiratory failure. That's serious complications from
the disease. That's really bad compared to the few and milder, well,
(08:18):
the complications from the vaccine itself. I think, is it
that you just don't trust big business? Is it that
you don't trust big pharma? Honestly, I get that one
hundred percent. One hundred percent. You got to remember, any
public company, the people that run that have a fiduciary
responsibility to the shareholders. They do not have a responsibility
(08:44):
to you. That's a legal responsibility to make as much
money for the shareholders as they can, and that that's
unfortunate if the product they sell happens to be medicine.
So I understand the conflict there. We're going to get
this all sorted out with that our guests right after
this break on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay, let's try to stay healthy here. Let's try to
talk about the flu and how to avoid it, vaccines,
et cetera. With an expert. I'm not really an expert.
I don't even play one on the radio. We have
with us doctor Shira Doron, chief Infection Control Officer for
Tough's Medicine and hospital epidemiologists for Tough Medical Center, and
(09:31):
we're gonna talk about this flu season. Thanks for being with.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Us, doctor, great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No, how serious Excuse me, I'm not sick. I promise.
How serious is this the season this year? Not only
in terms of the numbers but the severity.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, the thing that we're most concerned about right now
with the flu season is how steep the curve is
in the upward throughout. It's really heading kind of straight up,
and so we don't know how far it's going to
get up there. We're not at the peak at the
(10:11):
level of last year's peak. We're pretty far from it still.
So you know, we've we've been worse and we've been
worse in the past year. The question is, you know,
we're we're actually a month earlier in the in the
curve than we were last year. So we're seeing the
same numbers today that we would have seen, you know,
(10:32):
in more like February of last year. So will it
given that extra time to go up, will it get
even higher than what we saw last year, which was
a bad flu season, or will it just peak early
and come down early, which is what we hope.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
How bad can it get? Can it get to the
point where, you know, the society kind of squeeches to
a hot like covid or Is flu never that serious,
never that big a deal?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
It certainly can and you know, certainly we've we've had
pandemic years where flu has you know, overwhelmed to some
extent hospital capacity. I mean, we have hospitals in our
state reporting that they have many, many patients waiting in
(11:18):
the emergency room for a hospital that so that's not
a situation we want to be in. So we don't
necessarily think this is a flu pandemic, but it's a
bad strain. And it's bad because you know, flu does
mutate and evolve over time, and in this particular year,
(11:42):
the virus mutated such that the vaccine that we have
been given isn't a great match to what's circulating. And
that happens. That happens, you know, quite often when it
when it's mutated like that, you know, not only can
we expect the vaccine uh to be less effective, but
we also don't have a level of community immunity against
(12:07):
the flu from prior infection. So even the last year
was a bad flu year and a lot of people
got the flu, that would normally protect us in the
following year, but it's not going to as well because
the virus is mutating. And that does that mean you
should not bother to go out and get a flu
shot because the bad match. No, quite the opposite. The
flu shot can still be effective, particularly at preventing severe disease, hospitalization,
(12:32):
and death, even when it's not a great match at
preventing infection. But what you're going to see is a
lot of infections.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
You know, I have a question I want to ask
you before I forget, and that is some people don't
wear masks because they say you can get the flu anyway.
But it seems to me that mass could reduce severity
because it could reduce the load you're infected with, and
maybe your body would have a shot at fighting off
(13:00):
one hundred thousand germs rather than a two billion. If
somebody cops right in your face without a mask, Does
the mask make a difference in severity?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Yeah, it's a great question. It's a theory. It's an
inoculum theory. Does the amount of germ virus in this
case that you get exposed to affect severity. It's been asked.
It's been asked about COVID, and it's something that's difficult
to study and has not been proven one way or
(13:32):
the other.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So you can't do it. There's no way to test
that you'd think there would be. You could introduce smaller amounts.
I'm not going to tell you anything you haven't thought of.
You can introduce smaller amounts in that test subject and
more in the other and see if on a routine basis,
the one that got the most viral load got sicker.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You're right, No, it could in a large study with
a lot of people getting introduced to whether it's a
potentially deadly virus, and so you know, the ethics of
that have been called into question and it hasn't really
been done.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Interesting. Okay, Now are you disturbed that only thirty four
percent of I had? The number I have is thirty
four percent of folks get vaccinated, and that's down a
little bit from last year, which I understand was thirty
six Those numbers I have, are those correct? And why
do two thirds of people not get vaccinated?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Yeah? I am disturbed, and you know I think a
little bit down from last year, but quite a bit
down from prior years. And that is a reflection of
this growing vaccine skepticism, vaccine hesitancy that we're seeing throughout
the country, throughout the world really and that we are
(14:52):
not immune to pun intended here in Massachusetts. And we
know what some of the reasons are for that vaccine
aptism as inc there is there is misinformation, but there
are other reasons. COVID really, you know, did a number
on our society in so many ways. And one of
(15:12):
the ways was that actually the way that some of
the aspects of the pandemic were handled, you know, by
science communicators, public health communicators even like myself, ended up
causing more distrust in some arena than by some people
of public health recommendations. And I think we have to,
(15:34):
you know, take ownership of that and figure out how
to reverse some of that. The decisions and the announcements
that have been made by the current federal administration and
federal health officials are unfortunately contributing to confusion, chaos, uh
and and skepticism about the safety of vaccines in such
(15:56):
a way that we are seeing lower vaccination rates that
do have the potential to increase, you know, the severity
of flu season in terms of how many people are
infected and hospitalized and how many people die from flu.
You did ask about the severity of the flu virus
this year, and you know, there's no reason to think
(16:16):
that it's a more dangerous virus other than that there's
not as much immunity to it because people are less
well vaccinated.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So people, Do you think people underestimate how nasty the
flu is?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, I mean I think so, And I think that
what people might not realize is that the majority of
people who do develop severe flu and die of flu,
adults and children, actually don't have underlying medical conditions. Yes,
we know that there are risk factors for severe disease,
and if you are someone with a lot of medical problems,
you're at high risk for severe flu. But if you
(16:54):
have no medical problems, you still could get severe flu
and die from flu. And that's why they're a blanket recommendation,
or there was in the past from CBC for everyone
to get vaccinated against empluenza every year over the age
anyone who's over six months of age.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Have you done any studies on the reasons people are
hesitant besides the disinformation, other reasons, they're concerns why they
don't get the vaccine. It would be important to know
that to address that.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Yeah, I mean there are there are a lot of reasons,
and there is I don't want to imply that it's
not okay to ask questions and to wonder about whether
you know certain vaccines are safe put in your body.
There's a growing the love of being all things natural
(17:50):
in society, and in many ways that's a good thing.
People are eating healthier, people are questioning what they put
in their body in terms of chemical additives and food,
and vaccines can fullow to that category to some extent,
and so it's really important to have a trusted physician
who could talk to you about the pros and cons
the risks and benefits. And unfortunately, a very large proportion
(18:14):
of our society, even in Massachusetts, doesn't have a primary
care doctor, and that plays a role as well, and
you know, not being not having the tools to educate
the public about vaccine.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
All right, you're a trusted for physician, So why don't
we take a bit of time after this break too
speak to people about the risk versus the reward. The
risk of long term flu, severe flu, and the complications
of that versus the perceived complications or the complication the
actual complications of the vaccine. The risk reward seems to
(18:49):
me of not getting a flu vaccine is out of
whack and it doesn't make sense risk reward wise. And now
I understand people were nervous about covid vat they hadn't
tested that MNRA that that type of vaccine at least
that's what the folks thought. I kind of get that,
But people have been getting flu vaccines for a long time.
(19:10):
It's free. I mean no, there's no such thing as
really free. But you don't have to pay any extra
to get it. It's easy, and it's it's it can
help you anyway. We'll break and we'll talk to Jeff
in Abington and we'll continue with our doctor in a
moment on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Only thirty four percent of you, approximately I've kind of
vaccinated against the flu. Why And we're also going to
talk continue with our guest doctor Shira Doron to explain
the risk rewards to doubters. Maybe we can save a
couple of lives and certainly save a lot of misery.
Let's go to Jeff and Abington. Hello, Jeff, what do
(19:58):
you What do you have for us? He must have
accidentally hit the button that was not me when my
hands were in the air. He'll probably call back doctor.
Let's start on the risk rewards. People fear the side
effects and I I don't know if that's reasonable or not.
(20:18):
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, the food shot is really one of the most
the safest vaccines that we have. Most people will feel
soreness in their arm. I don't like it, but it
does only last usually a day, maybe too Some people
get some, you know, other symptoms like a low grade fever,
(20:43):
headache and muffle ache, but really not commonly and and
nothing like what people are used to experiencing from the
those MR and A COVID vaccines that we're also familiar with.
There are these very very rare side effects, so you know,
you can anybody can be a ar to anything, so
you could have an allergic reaction, very rare, and then
one in a million, there's a condition called gionvary syndrome
(21:07):
and neurologic disorder. You said yeah, one in a million.
And so as you said, you know that your risk
of getting a bad complication from the flu is way
higher than that, and your chance of getting the flu
in a season like this is very, very high. So
when you when you put those two things together, that
(21:29):
you are likely to become exposed to the flu this
season and that your risk of getting a severe complication
from the flu is high, the risks certainly are outweighed
by the benefit of YA.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So what are the complications. We need to spell out
the complications of severe flu that can take place that
are severe. I don't think that gets factored in. People
factor in only the downside of the vaccine. They don't
factor in the downside of getting the disease. So talk
about those significant downside of getting the flu that may
(22:03):
affect a person forever.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Exactly. And you know, I think some people also don't
realize that the flu is influenza and that's not your
common cold. And so you know, the common colde that
you get that just is a new sence for a
few days. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking
about the flu, which typically comes on like a ton
of bricks all of a sudden with the severe body aches,
high fever, and cough. Even a regular run of the
(22:29):
mill out of the flu will send you to bed
for a few days and will generally be associated with
a cough that lasts four weeks. Six weeks is typical.
But then there are additional complications. I mean, it's very
common to end up in the hospital, to end up
in the ICU, to end up on a ventilator needing
(22:50):
help breathing, and there are long term complications. So people
are very familiar with long covid flu does the same thing.
We're respiratory problems that linger heart come location is extreme fatigue,
dysfunction of almost any organ, and so we see this
all the time in my field. And that's why you
know you won't find an affectious disease doctor that hasn't
(23:11):
gotten their annual flu shop.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
All right, let's talk to Jeff again. We'll see how
it goes. Jeff and Abington.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Hey, how come you hung up on me?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It did not hang up on you. I might not
sure where he's going with that. Can you continue, please? Doctor?
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:29):
So, you know, I think that there is a lot
of confusion out there regarding vaccines. We just heard that
the CDC is changing its vaccine recommendations and that that
they're not going to be recommending annual flu vaccination. And
(23:50):
that's unfortunate, right we we we are now well aware
that the CDC has been making changes that have deviated
from the process that we've become accustomed to, which involves
an external advisory committee of well vetted experts, an opportunity
(24:11):
for the public to weigh in. That has changed under
the current administration. CDC has been making sweeping recommendations that
change schedules that have been in place for and guidelines
that have been in place for a long time that
were well supported by scientific evidence. And the result is
that here in a state like Massachusetts, we're lucky the
(24:36):
state Health Department is stepping in and making its own
recommendations for vaccines. Organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics
are continuing to make their own recommendations, but they're going
to differ from those of the CDC. And so I'm
recommending that people follow state guidelines, American Association of Pediatrics
(24:58):
guidelines rather than CDC. And that's a very uncomfortable thing
to say, but unfortunately it has to be said.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
So what basis of this is the CDC making these
recommendations that are counterproductive. Is there any scientific basis? Do
you why? Is my question? You must have some insight
as to why they why? He why they say this?
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah? You know, had the usual process been followed, where
an advisory committee meets in a public fashion where I
could watch the meeting and they would go over all
of the research that led to a decision to make
a change, I could tell you what that scientific evidence is.
(25:45):
But this was all done in a very secretive, opaque
manner without the usual evidence base to support the recommendations.
And what we keep hearing is that the recommendations have
been changed to match a specific country, Denmark vaccine guideline. Well,
we aren't Denmark. In many ways we differ from Denmark,
(26:08):
and so that doesn't seem like it's compelling reason to know.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
But on the other hand, they're a first world country
and they seem to be doing very well. What is
Denmark's theory? Why do they recommend the way they do.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Well?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
It's interesting because the public health official from Denmark has
come out and made a statement saying that you know,
Denmark's vaccine schedule doesn't actually work for the United States
of America. They have a different demographic, they have a
different level of health, they have a different health system,
they have different epidemiology of diseases. I mean, there are
(26:50):
vaccines that we don't give in the United States that
are given in other countries because we have low levels
of certain diseases compared to other countries. You know, there
are simply different recommendations different parts of the world based
on epidemia.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Probably Denmark's folk people are in better shape for one thing.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
They are they're healthier, they have better healthcare, they have
a more effective healthcare system. Everybody has healthcare, free healthcare,
and they have a single unified health record, so that
wherever you go in a healthcare system, somebody can look
and see have you been vaccinated? Have you been tested
for certain things. It really does change what the recommendations
(27:29):
should be.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Okay, a personal question, RSV. My doctors initially said, don't
get it. There's some questions about neurological symptoms. Maybe he
was talking about gambar. But then later he said, to
get it. Why the hesitation on his part there, Yeah,
doubt about it till recently or something.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
So this is this is actually a perfect example of
how the United States CDC in a typical year is
not is not just trying to be heavy handed and
recommend all vaccines for all people all the time. Here
was a vaccine that was brand new, the RCV vaccine,
and because it was brand new and because it had
(28:09):
so far been studied only in a relatively small number
of people when it came out, the recommendation was for
shared decision making, meaning have a conversation with your doctor.
There were some side effects like gan beret that were
seen in the study. There were also people who really
seemed to benefit from the vaccine. The older you are,
the more you benefit from the vaccine. And so the
(28:31):
first year that the vaccine came out, it was recommended
as an option, talk to your doctor see if it's
right for you. After a year of experience, the CDC
changed the recommendation. So it reviewed the recommendation changed them.
It said everyone over seventy five should get the RSV vaccine.
If you're between fifty and seventy four, then you should
(28:53):
get the vaccine if you have risk factors for severe RSP.
So that's just a great example of how todays isn't
just trying to tell everybody to get vaccines all the time.
We use the science, we use the evidence, we use
the epidemiology, and we use the experience from prior years
to adjust the recommendation.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
All right, so the recommendation is now currently get RSV
if you're over seventy four? Is that correct? Correct?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Over seventy four?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And why is it not until seventy four? Again?
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, So the risk for severe disease goes up with age,
so the cutoffs the cutoff is seventy five and up.
But if you're between fifty and seventy four and you
have risk factors for just severe disease, heart disease, lung disease,
neurologic disease, then you should get it. And if you're
pregnant between weeks thirty two and thirty six of pregnancy,
(29:45):
you should also.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Get Okay, thanks, I wish we had more time. I
hope you come back and we'll go through more more
diseases and talk more for a full hour. Can we
can we do that?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
We'd love to, all right, sure.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Thank you so much. Doctor. Next, we talked to Michael
Coin to get some his legal angle on the hit
and run the incident on Commonwealth Avenue in Boston. That's
coming up next on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio,
we have a quick.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Visit from Michael Corndina, the Massachusetts schol of Lot, to
talk about the circumstances of that alleged and run on
Commonwealth Avenue. Michael, thanks for being with us. I'll ask
brief questions and due to the lack of time, I
guess we have to have succinct answers. But what's the
latest news on this case.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well, the latest news on the case is that he
has been sent to Bridgewater for evaluation, and in these circumstances,
the evaluation, at least initially is going to focus on
whether he's competent to stand trial. So there's two issues
that will ultimately be outstanding his competency to assist with
his defense and to make knowing and intelligent decisions with
(30:59):
respect to how he wants to defend. The bigger question
ultimately will be whether he is legally criminally responsible for
his actions what most people commonly refer to as the
insanity defense, which appears likely is going to be the
ultimate defense in the case.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Okay, I should have outlined this for folks who live
in other areas and may not be aware the case.
We have a big, long, beautiful street in Boston called
Commonwealth Avenue. A man and his dog was struck by
a vehicle and a person was arrested for it, and
his attorney well as I understand that his attorney says
(31:41):
that he is not well and is not mentally well
and hopes that they may change the charges once the
evaluation has made one are the charges.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Currently the charges will be first degree murder, and that's
what he is facing because Comonwealth believes that there was premeditation.
He was asking someone immediately before this had he seen
the man in the red coat walking a dog, and
that he appeared to turn the vehicle deliberately towards the
(32:19):
mister Axelrod and his dog and in the process then
ran over them and killed them both.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, by the way, murder one and cruelty to animals?
Do you happen to know the penalty of cruelty?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, exactly. I should have. I should not have minimized
the additional charge. I do not. I think I thought
it's somewhere between three and five years, but I did
not check it out because if in fact he's convicted
of the first degree murder charge that carries with a
life in prison without the benefit of the role. So
(32:50):
the additional charge for the loss of the dog won't
truly be meaningful if in fact he's convicted a first
degree murder.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
All right, I heard that perhaps he It has been
floated that perhaps he was mistaken it was in case
of mistaken identity, and perhaps intended to run over someone else.
But so I ask you, does that make a difference legally? No, No,
(33:21):
that's still he intended. If you intended to kill someone
and you killed the wrong person, are you still on
the hook for malice of forethought and murder? One?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yes, exactly rightly, You're still intended to kill someone. The
fact that you were mistaken as to who you wanted
to kill is a is not a defense to an
intentional murder, and it undercuts the insanity defense argument. If
in fact you truly intended, the fact that you were
mistaken as to identity, uh as to the person doesn't
(33:52):
help you escape liability for the murder. What it means
is that you understood what you were doing and likely
understood that it was wrong, but he chose to kill
whoever the person is that you believed he was.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
My resource says that he acted I should perhaps abnormally
or disconnected or in a way in during his his arraignment.
I guess yep, okay, in a way that might lead
persons to believe that he was mentally ill.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, how easy is it for a psychologist to tell
if a person's faking.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
No, They generally trained professionals will be able to do that.
But just so everyone's clear, it's not enough to say
that he had a mental illness or that he suffered
from some type of mental disease and the like. It's
that because that happens, and people have all sorts of
mental problems, but that doesn't mean they're not criminally responsible
(34:57):
for their acts. What you would have to show is
that he did, in fact suffer from a mental disease
or defect such that he could not understand that his
actions were wrong or conform his actions to the law.
It's it's actually a very high standard. It is rarely
accepted by the juries because it is such a heavy
(35:18):
burden for the jury to accept that despite what their
problems and the mental diseases were, that at the end
of the day, they didn't understand that there was something
grossly wrong with killing another person.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So you could be intensely psychotic for a long time
and still be on the hook for murder one because
you even though you may have still be able to
understand what you were doing at the time, you may
not be delusional all the time when you have a psychosis,
(35:56):
and so you have to prove that this person was
unable to understand their actions at the time of the actions.
Not just a history of mental illness does not get
you off the hook.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
No, and even a present mental illness, even a present
existing mental illness, it's been alleged that you had a
change of medication, he was on medication for in fact
under treatment for mental illness. That in and of itself
is not going to excuse the murder of another person.
You're going to have to show that he could not
and did not appreciate that his actions were in fact wrong.
(36:33):
So it's a too pronged part of it that makes
it very hard for a defendant to successfully argue that
their mental illness excuses their liability for the murder of
another person.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Okay, one final question. I really appreciate the answer to
these nuanced questions. Sure does it matter if he never
had met or known the.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Victim now now, because he could still form the intent.
And it appears, at least from some of the evidence
that we've already heard, that he went looking for this person,
described him to a passerby, and that person directed him
to where they had last seen the individual with the dog.
(37:18):
So no, you don't have to know the person to
intend to cause their death, and that would be the
argument here. Even if, as you pointed out, he believed
he was someone else, it's still there is still evidence
that he intended to do harm to the person who
was in the red coat walking the dog, and in
fact carried out that direct It's horrific.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Do you have any any other observations before we said no,
it is horrific.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
You've got a fine citizen of the Commonwealth who's done
a lot of good and likely has met his end
despite because of no fault of his own, just wrong place,
wrong time, and even as you pointed out, beautiful part
of the city, to have such a horrific action take
(38:04):
place there, it is shocking.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I appreciate the time, at this late hour and on
such short notice. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Very much, Mike anytime.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Bradley, Okay, that's Michael Coin. He's my man, he's my
legal man. There were calls that we didn't get to
because we switched the topic, and we can address the vaccinations,
your reasons for not getting vaccinated, and actually the fact
that they're basing their decisions federally on the Denmarks practices.
(38:36):
That's pretty interesting to me because I like a lot
of Denmark's practices, So I'm super interested in what you think.
That's later in the evening hang around, and also if
you want to talk about the incident on Commonwealth Avenue,
and again it's a terrible thing for both the human
victim and the dog. That's so sad. It's w b
(38:56):
Z
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